0:18

Hey, and welcome to What Future. I'm your host,

0:20

josh Wa Topolski, and we have

0:22

got a barnstormer of an episode

0:24

today, which I'm excited about.

0:26

Now.

0:26

You may or may not know this, but my day job

0:29

is the operation of a media brand

0:32

called Sherwood Media, which is interested

0:35

in and thinking about how

0:37

money moves, how the markets

0:39

function, what's going on in business and

0:41

technology and the worlds of finance and

0:44

geopolitics and all those fun things. And

0:46

so I'm thinking all the time about

0:49

money and about

0:51

you know, where the markets are shifting and

0:54

what it means culturally. And there's

0:56

a great podcast that I've been listening to, and

1:00

there are these two guys that do the podcast.

1:02

It's called Trillionaire Mindset, and I think they're

1:04

just fantastic and we want to have them

1:06

on here to talk about business both

1:09

large and small. And I should

1:11

say this is the first time ever that

1:13

What Future is having two guests at once, so

1:15

it's going to be quite a handful. I

1:17

don't want to waste any more time. Let's just get right into

1:19

this conversation. I'm

1:38

just gonna say it right now. This is not a financial

1:40

advice. I don't know if you guys consider what you're

1:42

doing financial advice. But I'm gonna say.

1:43

I was going to say, actually it is so everybody

1:46

can take it to the bank and if they want to act

1:48

you luck.

1:49

So what Ben says is financial advice?

1:51

Emil, what do you are you?

1:53

Also?

1:54

Yeah, doing financial advice?

1:56

Uh yeah.

1:57

Unfortunately, for the record, we are joking.

2:00

We absolutely really you

2:02

don't want to get a fine? Yeah, I don't

2:04

want be fined. We can't do that.

2:06

You guys have a podcast called Trillionaire Mindset

2:08

true or false?

2:09

True?

2:09

True?

2:10

We needed a party. I

2:12

don't know anything about Trillionaire Mindset.

2:14

What would you tell me? How would you describe the podcast

2:17

to me?

2:17

I would say, I got to go to the bathroom here, let

2:19

him answer it for you, and then defer to

2:21

a meal.

2:22

I'd say, you seem like a lonely guy

2:24

who's uh, could maybe

2:26

use friends, and.

2:28

So you can't explain it. I got no, we can explain

2:30

it.

2:30

It's it's we're taking the

2:32

piss out of all out of you

2:34

know, the entire financial and economic

2:37

system. So we're breaking down

2:39

kind of any story surrounding that, and it includes

2:41

like all kinds of financial,

2:44

economic political stories, tons

2:47

of current events, but we're joking about them

2:50

and explaining them and making them fun.

2:52

Yeah, you're turning heavy stuff into lighthearted

2:55

topics.

2:55

Yeah, we want to make what otherwise is

2:57

boring to younger people, well an audience

2:59

of all. We want to make what's

3:01

otherwise boring and uninteresting interesting

3:04

and not boring.

3:05

Right Emil, are you British?

3:07

Out of curiosity?

3:08

You froming anybody in your family from England?

3:10

Now what you said take the piss which

3:12

is an expression that I

3:14

really only hear British people say, and I always

3:16

it's a big red flag for me if there's any British

3:19

people involved.

3:21

Mindset is actually staunchly anti British.

3:23

Yes, yeah, we are on record, so

3:26

as it should be. I retracted my taking the piss

3:28

out, and I would like to say we're

3:30

making fun of them.

3:31

Yeah, it's more like it. That's an America, that's the American

3:34

way to say it. That's good. I

3:36

like it anti British stance. I don't have any personal

3:38

grievance against the British. In fact, they've been very good to

3:40

me historically. But I don't

3:42

know, it just feels like I need to have a couple of like

3:45

grudges to hold, and I think the British seemed

3:47

like an easy target.

3:48

Perhaps they're so easy to make fun of,

3:50

right in the most loving way.

3:52

Nothing against British people individually.

3:55

Yeah, no, well, I mean, I don't know, maybe

3:58

something against them. Yeah, did you guys watch the coronation?

4:00

That's a big that's a big news event.

4:02

That's a huge We tried to get in and

4:04

they denied our visas.

4:06

You need a visa to go to the coronator.

4:08

I guess so I think they might have I think they might watch

4:10

our show.

4:10

Wait a second, did you actually try to go to England for the

4:12

for no King Charles's coronation?

4:15

We have a running joke that we're always at

4:17

important events that we're actually not at.

4:19

Yeah, I say, I say, I actually

4:21

watched the I watch you guys on YouTube.

4:24

You have a great desk. Where do you get a desk like that?

4:26

So he make it for you? Did you purchase it? Is

4:28

that something that like I want to know about the How

4:30

did you get the desk?

4:31

Yeah? This guy, I don't

4:33

know if we've been told all

4:35

sorts of stuff about what not to talk. It's

4:37

fine. Some guy builds those sets.

4:40

That's it, he's I don't remember.

4:42

Well you told you're not supposed to talk about that. I don't

4:44

know.

4:45

They like to keep the guy because he's built

4:48

a few sets for the network, and they kind

4:50

of like to keep him their own little secret, which is

4:52

kind of fun.

4:53

When you say the network, what do you mean are our network

4:55

that we're under? You're okay,

4:58

yeah, no, right, okay, because

5:01

it does remind me of a kind of like late night kind

5:04

of desk. It's but it's for.

5:05

Two yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, that is the vibe we

5:07

were going for.

5:07

Have you ever had a third person at the desk?

5:08

You've had two other people at the desk? Oh?

5:11

Really?

5:11

Yeah, but that makes sense because you've got quadrants.

5:13

But if you've got a third, I guess you. Guys said on one side,

5:15

is that how you arrangement?

5:16

We stick them right in the middle, Right in the middle, we say, head

5:18

on, Yeah.

5:21

No, for really, you put the person in the middle. That's

5:23

crazy. That's a crazy arrangement. So

5:25

you make that person have to look back and forth between

5:27

the two of you, and that's very strange.

5:29

No free rides at trillion our mindset.

5:31

So so trillionaire mindset is,

5:34

but there's obviously a through line. You talk about all sorts

5:36

of stuff like you talk about current events and politics.

5:39

In fact, I was just listening to you guys. We're talking about Biden

5:41

and his re election campaign, and

5:44

I think this is your most recent episodes from a few

5:46

days ago. You were talking about the Republicans

5:49

using AI to make an ad, so

5:51

very political. Yeah, and

5:53

you guys are both hardcore right wingers.

5:56

Would you say, yeah, what's the word

5:58

crypto fascist?

5:59

Yeah?

6:00

We described oah yeah, right,

6:02

okay, good neo conservatives.

6:05

But there's a through line, Like there's a money through line,

6:07

right, Like I mean you guys are like interested in money

6:10

and in the markets,

6:12

and I mean there's some investing stuff'll

6:15

y'all talk about. It's like you talk about hedge

6:17

fund guys like they're you know, household

6:19

names. So yeah, how do you end up doing a podcast

6:22

which is very funny and obviously for entertainment

6:24

purposes, but it's also like quite seriously

6:27

about like stuff that is very nerdy,

6:29

like market stuff.

6:30

Right, this has been speaking Hello.

6:34

I I am a

6:36

trader and I've been a trader for I

6:39

don't know fifteen years in a professional

6:41

trader only professional for the last few I

6:43

got licensed a year ago, but before

6:45

that, I was trading for myself for since

6:48

like twenty eighteen.

6:49

So you have a job at a brokerage. Is that

6:52

at a trading firm?

6:53

Yeah, at a proper okay, And yeah,

6:56

I'd always been interested in it since I was a kid,

6:58

and I made a lot of money

7:01

doing it in my late twenties and then I no

7:03

need to brag, but then I lost a lot of money

7:05

too, oh okay to taxes into a couple

7:07

bad investments. But I've always like

7:10

it. Yeah, I've always I've always

7:12

had an interest in the stuff. And then when

7:15

the game stop debacle happened.

7:18

Noel Miller, who's one of the two

7:21

guys who runs TMG Studios, we

7:23

were talking about it and he was asking me to

7:26

parse all of the information that was coming

7:28

out daily about the GameStop thing,

7:30

and I was breaking it down for him and making

7:33

him laugh, and at one point he said, you know,

7:35

you should do a finance podcast, and

7:37

I said, yeah, I'd love to. I've always wanted to get

7:39

into radio, but that's kind of a dead

7:42

dream at this point. And he said, well, let me talk

7:44

to Cody the other guy who runs TMG,

7:47

because we're thinking about expanding and turning

7:49

our flagship podcast into a network,

7:51

which is what they did with us being

7:54

the first foray into that. And

7:56

he said, you know, who would you want to be your partner?

7:58

And I thought of this young man right

8:01

here, because we'd we're friends,

8:03

and we'd he's a he's a comedian

8:05

and he's very funny. And we

8:08

were working on this other thing at the time,

8:10

doing these voiceovers for this fledgling,

8:13

small little Instagram cartoon that never

8:15

went anywhere, but it was really fun.

8:18

Find that on Instagram.

8:19

Yeah, it was called Office Fire. I

8:21

think it's under Office Fire show. And

8:24

we both it was like a Beavis

8:26

you're doing voices, yeah, voice We were writing

8:28

it hand, doing voices.

8:29

It was one of the strangest times because

8:31

it was peak pandemic,

8:33

peak lockdown, and they

8:36

said you can't, you can't come into the studio.

8:38

We don't have a studio. We're allowed to have you

8:40

in. So they sent us mikes

8:43

and we and it was so hot it was

8:45

that summer, that first summer, and so we

8:47

had to turn off the AC because of the sound, and

8:49

we had to put blankets over ourselves. So the

8:51

sound would sound and it was just we were just

8:53

sweating and Ben department recording this animated

8:56

show.

8:56

I know I got you off track from the background here, But

8:58

but was that fun or was that like a

9:01

nightmare?

9:01

Because I think it could go either way. It was. It was a good

9:03

time.

9:04

It was incredibly fun. I wasn't leaving

9:06

the house at that point.

9:08

You know.

9:09

We would record, and then we would also just have these long

9:11

conversations because I hadn't talked to anyone in

9:14

weeks.

9:15

Yeah, and I would be telling him about certain

9:17

trades that I had made that day or things

9:19

that had happened in the news that like, hey, here's

9:21

someone to talk to about it. And

9:24

he'd ask me questions because he didn't fully understand.

9:26

He'd at this point had known very

9:28

little about the markets and stuff.

9:30

And you weren't you weren't playing the market,

9:32

you were.

9:33

Not in the game.

9:34

I'm not a market playboy.

9:35

Interesting.

9:36

Interesting, And I'd kind of break it down

9:39

from him, and he found it entertaining, but

9:41

would also make little jokes and

9:43

make me crack up. So when Noel

9:45

asked me who I would want to do it

9:47

with, I knew exactly who the right person

9:49

would be. And then we

9:52

months later recorded a pilot episode

9:54

and it went really well, and then we were off to the races.

9:57

Yeah, so that was mit you said, like peak

10:00

pandemic. You said twenty twenty or later.

10:01

Well, we ended up launching the first episode

10:04

in October twenty twenty one, I think over

10:06

twenty twenty one, just right around my

10:08

birthday. It's a very special time.

10:10

That was your birthday present from us.

10:12

Thank you.

10:12

I appreciate that. That really

10:14

hit the spot. So then you're doing

10:16

this stuff all day. They're like actually engaged

10:19

in the art and the

10:21

craft of tradeing. You were playing the

10:23

market very poorly. Yes, okay,

10:26

okay, that's I'm sure your employer loves to hear that. I'm

10:28

sure they're like, we love what our guys

10:30

are, Like, I suck at this.

10:31

They do not give a rats ask because they're

10:34

collect in their desk fees and whatnot, and

10:36

they take ten percent of my profits. So even if

10:38

I'm unprofitable, they're still making money

10:40

off of like commissions and whatnot.

10:41

Oh okay, So it's a it's like a boiler

10:44

room kind of set up there, right, Is that in

10:46

my mind?

10:47

Not quite? But the way that it works

10:49

is you give them a little bit of money as

10:51

a deposit, as a security deposit, and

10:53

then they give you like twenty x

10:56

leverage, oh to trade

10:58

with.

10:58

This sounds a little bit like MLM. It's not no

11:00

right at all? No, Okay, are you sure? Positives

11:03

you might be you might be involved in an extremely

11:05

complex scam.

11:07

Well here's a possible. You've got

11:09

fifteen minutes. I promise you I

11:11

can change your life. Okay,

11:14

so you can decide for yourself it's

11:16

an MLM or not. But I guarantee you it's

11:18

not. You're not gonna be.

11:19

Thinking that I'm interested in getting in on the ground

11:21

floor on something.

11:22

Well, the thing is if you can then get three

11:24

people under you to sign up for this

11:26

program, yeah, then the money

11:28

that they make. Okay, this bit has gone

11:30

on for two now.

11:31

This is great.

11:32

I love this.

11:32

I noticed you do a thing on the podcast. Actually, speaking

11:35

of your bits, you're very like, uh, maybe

11:37

this is because I guess your background is not and you're not

11:39

a professional comedian like Emiala. Is right, you're a you're

11:41

a professional pro comedian. Is that what I'm meant to understand?

11:44

I mean, that's a loose sure,

11:46

I make money off comedy. But uh

11:48

yeah, I mean we're both we both

11:50

met in the comedy world, that's the thing.

11:52

Okay, So wait, so then you are a comedian that

11:54

I don't know when.

11:55

I think we both have similar weird backgrounds

11:58

where we have like professional backgrounds,

12:01

but we're in comedy. So I am like,

12:03

weirdly a non practicing lawyer.

12:07

So oh wow, you just really that's

12:09

interesting, A non practicing lawyer. But you're

12:12

you could be a lawyer if you wanted to be.

12:13

I'm like licensed, passed the bar, all that kind

12:16

of stuff. But right, what kind

12:18

of law I just don't. I mean,

12:20

the only thing I do you

12:22

don't want to say. I mean, the stuff

12:24

I work for is is pro

12:26

bonus stuff. I'll do legal aid stuff,

12:29

okay, but I don't work in

12:31

any real capacity.

12:33

You know.

12:33

My focus is all on comedy

12:35

and our show. And it wouldn't it wouldn't be

12:37

right to right be fully

12:40

representing people as I'm

12:42

he.

12:42

Doesn't want to spread himself too thing, right,

12:44

I get it.

12:45

You can always fall back on being a lawyer if you need to, but

12:47

you don't do that right now.

12:48

But so you know, But yeah, so we were

12:50

introduced to each other through comedy,

12:53

friends and stuff, and we both kind of had these weird

12:55

other things outside of comedy

12:57

that.

12:58

Like normal, normal lives.

12:59

Yeah, sure, that made it fun,

13:01

and I think we each had an

13:03

interesting perspective rather than just two guys

13:06

who were like, let's start a pod and

13:08

just start chatting.

13:09

Yeah, you want to distance yourself from

13:12

other men who started a podcast,

13:14

is what I'm hearing.

13:15

We are standing on the shoulders of

13:18

two guys with a microphone everywhere.

13:21

Right, that's beautiful. That's beautiful.

13:24

But how long have you know? Did you know each

13:26

other before you started doing the podcast?

13:28

We probably knew each other, Yeah,

13:30

maybe foursh five years maybe.

13:33

Were you like casual buddies or like you were hanging out

13:35

all the time.

13:35

No, so my very

13:38

good friend, my best friend in the world, actually

13:40

was he met Ben online

13:43

when Ben was moving back to LA and

13:46

what you guys got lunch? Got lunch and

13:48

he talked to me after and was like, I met this guy.

13:50

You guys would love each other and then.

13:52

He both freaks.

13:53

He said, yeah, he said, you guys both absolute freaking interesting,

13:56

and he was right, Yeah, we

13:59

hit it off. If we started hanging out all the time,

14:01

climbing, going to the beach.

14:03

Yeah, oh, you guys climb, you're like sporty

14:05

types and.

14:06

Not anymore though he doesn't climb anymore. I don't

14:08

climb anymore.

14:08

But we both go to the same gym. Still, well, you can't

14:10

risk your body now that you're worth so much. It's

14:13

truly on our mindset taking off. You can't risk it.

14:15

I stay climb a little bit. I'll go outside and stuff.

14:18

But yeah, it is, it is a bit.

14:19

Going outside is just that's not climbing.

14:21

Though, climbing outside rather than the gym.

14:23

Oh I see, I see. So I don't do any sports

14:26

at all, so this is all news to me, like that there's could

14:28

be an indoor outdoor consideration.

14:30

But I was hurting my back a lot, so I switched

14:32

over to you, you know, started playing more tennis,

14:35

and then he hurt his knee and his elbow instead.

14:37

We're working it out.

14:38

Should you maybe not just don't do any sports

14:40

at all?

14:41

Hey, that's the whole question.

14:43

In your thirties, should you just give it up?

14:46

I guess so? Are you in your thirties? I don't know your

14:48

ages. I don't want to be presumptuous.

14:50

I'm in my thirties.

14:51

Yeah, I'm middle thirty. It's a great time.

15:03

Have you met a trillionaire? Have either of you met a trillionaire?

15:05

Do you feel like you have ever encountered one in real

15:08

life?

15:08

No, but we have met billionaires.

15:10

Oh yeah, Okay, who's the richest person you've

15:12

ever met?

15:13

I guess it would have to be the CEO of

15:15

Robin Hood led Tenant when he came on her show the

15:18

time, worth like a little over a billion

15:20

dollars.

15:20

I know Vlad his body of mine. Yeah, but he's

15:22

done a body. But I got to work for him technically

15:25

speaking.

15:25

I encouraged him to quit.

15:27

Encourage him to quit Robin Hood.

15:28

I said, why don't you quit? Man? I

15:31

still stand by it.

15:32

I can't believe I have not watched this episode. I should have

15:34

really bound up on it before I had.

15:36

You guys know, it's an okay one. But I my

15:38

logic that it's a pretty good sport. From what I could tell, he

15:41

was a great sport.

15:42

It was a very strange thing because they

15:44

asked to come on, and we said at

15:46

first, why, because you know, our

15:49

whole thing is like making fun of this, like.

15:51

The PR team was like, hey, or have you ever thought about

15:53

having laid on the show?

15:54

Yeah?

15:55

Yeah, and we were obviously like we're

15:57

down, but just we just want you to

15:59

know what the show is

16:03

show and they were like, no, no, we get it. We think we should

16:05

still do it. So we did like a pre production meeting with them, and we

16:07

were very upfront, like we're

16:10

gonna make fun of him and we're gonna

16:12

ask, you know, a

16:15

question, tough questions, and then they

16:18

were like, what if instead we did

16:21

you know, you guys talked about how Robin Hood is now

16:23

offering crypto and we were like.

16:26

That's not you know, you can't blame them.

16:28

I mean that's their job. They

16:31

got to like do the promo stuff. You know,

16:33

it's good.

16:34

So we were very much like if

16:37

you don't want to do it, don't do it, and uh

16:39

they were like no, let's do it, and they

16:42

he was against bored. They let us do. They

16:45

let us do our thing and it was it was very fun.

16:46

Yeah. I got him a custom hat that he

16:49

put on it said oops, sorry about

16:51

that because he was kind

16:53

of in the middle of his unofficial apology tour

16:55

for right.

16:56

But I think he's kind of a podcast fan.

16:58

It's possible he listens it's your podcast,

17:00

because we've we've talked about it a few times

17:03

that I think he's, uh, he's sort of into

17:05

the art.

17:05

Wait.

17:05

But so when you said he's your boss.

17:07

What does that he is my Well, technically how

17:09

does that? Well, I'm the I'm the president

17:12

editor in chiefs was something called Sherwood Media, which

17:14

is a subsidiary brand of robin Hood, which

17:16

is a new media company. And

17:19

you guys didn't even google me. Didn't fucking if.

17:21

I knew about that. I'm building along.

17:23

You didn't even go check out. There's a great Axios article

17:25

about it. You can read, Yeah, I'm

17:27

building this new media thing that is

17:29

adjacent to but no longer actually like a

17:31

direct part of robin Hood. So so,

17:34

you know, a couple levels up there's

17:37

Vlad.

17:37

I still stand by the suggestion

17:40

that he quit. And part of it

17:42

was so let me, let me explain.

17:43

What was the motive? What what were you're thinking?

17:45

I said, look, you you've gotten a lot of bad

17:47

pr a lot of the monkeys what

17:49

are they called the apes out there? Yeah,

17:51

I hate your guts and the market

17:54

the stock was at fifty two weeks all

17:56

time lows. I said, if you were to step

17:59

out of the out of the spotlight, out of the

18:01

limelight, and just announce that

18:03

you're stepping down, you would

18:05

no longer have to deal with all this shit. Plus

18:08

the market would probably like it, and I'm

18:10

sure that the stock might rally tend to

18:12

twenty percent, thus making you a little bit

18:14

richer. So you right, you don't have

18:16

to.

18:16

Deal like you're doing a like a self

18:18

blood sacrifice that also drives

18:21

the price.

18:22

Nobody's going to care about what you do.

18:23

It's interesting, hardly a sacrifice. I mean,

18:25

the guy is a billionaire. It's like that's

18:28

yes.

18:28

That is true, that is true. I think he

18:31

legitimately likes the product a

18:33

lot. Like my impression of interacting

18:35

with him and seeing him interact with other people

18:37

is like he's legitimately excited about

18:39

like the concept of Robin. I think

18:42

it's like, I don't know. I mean, I think about this all the

18:44

time. Like, if you're very rich, let me get you

18:46

this way. If you were a billionaire,

18:48

would you, guys, as far as I know, are not right,

18:50

fortunately ye would you engage in

18:52

any part of society that you didn't absolutely

18:55

can we.

18:55

Talk about this all the time on shore. Oh

18:57

really, because you know so

18:59

many of these guys are getting into trouble, right,

19:01

you have these guys. It's like, we're just talking

19:04

about Carl Icon, who's what eighty

19:06

six?

19:06

Oh no, what did he do? Did I missed some news?

19:09

Who is it?

19:09

Henny Hindenburgh, the short sellar basically

19:11

released a lot of information about Icon enterprises,

19:14

and so they're trying to weather that storm. And we're

19:16

just talking about Carl Icon, who's a billionaire

19:19

and he's probably eighty two, and

19:21

yeah, yeah, our minds were

19:23

like, how do you not just go away?

19:26

How do you not just quit? I'm

19:28

done, I'm not gonna again.

19:30

I don't have I'm not in the trillionaire

19:32

mindset or even the billionaire mindset for

19:34

that matter. But I can imagine a future

19:36

state where I am in that mindset. And my feeling

19:39

is I have like a lot

19:41

of creative pursuits and things I'd like to do that have

19:43

nothing to do with like working or

19:45

generating more income. And

19:47

if I knew, if I knew that, like, I

19:50

can live off dividends and then some right, like,

19:52

and so can my family for the rest of eternity

19:54

essentially, you know, would I continue

19:57

to go into an office, you

19:59

know, on a zoom. In Vlave's

20:01

defense, he runs the company and I think he really enjoys

20:03

it and that's like his pursuit, and I think it's wonderful.

20:06

But I'm saying, imagine you're a billionaire, You're

20:08

an eighty two year old billionaire, and

20:10

they're like, hey, there's a Zoom call today to talk about

20:12

that thing. Like can you just imagine

20:15

you have to open up your laptop or whatever your

20:17

your I want to say, it's a think pad

20:19

or something, and you got to you gotta get on to

20:22

it. You gotta log into the zoom for a conference

20:24

call about something. It's like real, you know, it's

20:26

crazy, I mean very least delegate that

20:28

all away from you, like delegate everything

20:30

away. I think that's a perplexing. It's

20:33

interesting that you guys talk about it, because I

20:35

mean, in particular, I think about it

20:37

with like Elon is a perfect avatar

20:40

for this. It's like there was a lot of stuff going

20:42

really well in his his like career,

20:44

in his life and.

20:45

Oh, I mean he completely torched his own

20:49

reputation for.

20:50

I was just talking about somebody spit on my tesla the other

20:52

day?

20:52

Is that real?

20:53

And uh, well, okay, now, in fairness,

20:56

the guy was wearing a full Jack Sparrow

20:58

outfit, riding a bike in the opposite direction

21:01

alongside my car, and as he drove

21:03

by, he spit on it.

21:04

Come on my model?

21:06

Why? And I was like, that's

21:08

definitely because it's a tesla, although maybe it's

21:10

because he like, I know, there's like

21:12

a Tortuga situation going on or whatever

21:14

the island is called. I

21:17

don't know. I mean, he could have been something else, but no.

21:20

A friend of mine was just telling me that in

21:22

Brooklyn people are taking their tesla that goes

21:24

off the car because people like fuck

21:26

with yeah if they're you know, and it's like that didn't

21:28

have to happen. There's no reason for that to have happened.

21:31

It's funny because you know, there was a ton of valid

21:34

criticisms of Elon way before he

21:36

kind of took this hard turn, and we talked

21:38

about a lot of those, but those

21:40

were pretty i don't

21:42

want to say fringe, but like specific and

21:45

unless you were really digging into Elon's

21:48

whole you know, business practices and

21:50

views and all history yeah,

21:53

history then you weren't really privy to

21:55

it, and he was just kind of the guy who

21:58

might save humanity or no.

22:00

Right, he was like a weird avatar. You're like, oh

22:02

wow, there's this like crazy genius doing

22:04

all these things.

22:07

Right.

22:07

No, the Tony Stark era was very good

22:09

for him, like, and you didn't hear a lot from him.

22:11

He wasn't really talking.

22:12

Now it's strange because like normis

22:14

are just they hate him.

22:17

I mean I was at a yeah, I was at

22:19

a super Bowl party and when he came

22:21

on screen, they flashed him on screen and everyone

22:23

booed. I was like, oh my god, yeah, okay,

22:26

It's.

22:26

Like it's like when he came out the Chappelle

22:28

concert.

22:29

Right right, right exactly.

22:30

I forgot about that.

22:32

Yeah, you forgot about it, you kind of there's

22:34

so much it's almost it is Trump

22:36

like in this just gonna say that. Yeah, yeah, because

22:38

like remember you remember like with Trump, it

22:41

was like it wasn't like one thing a day or

22:43

one thing a week. It would be like there'd be

22:45

eight completely insane situations

22:47

happening every day. They were new, you

22:50

know, they were new. They were like, oh his pants fell

22:52

off during here and

22:54

that was like it at nine am, and then at

22:56

like at eleven thirty he said, like

22:58

the Kukos Klan is cool whatever, and like

23:00

that went on for another twelve hours.

23:03

Elon is kind of like that now where it's like, also's

23:05

so many like the pedo guy thing, you don't even

23:07

remember the pedo.

23:08

Guy in a case to really beautiful, right,

23:10

yeah, which he won, by.

23:12

The way, he fucking beat

23:14

He beat the chargers on the pedo guy case, which

23:16

is I guess impressive. But yeah,

23:18

it's like I just think, like, man, I mean,

23:20

whether he's a brilliant person or

23:23

really stupid or somewhere in between. I think probably

23:25

somewhere in between. In between. I

23:27

just feel like, don't just why tweet? Yeah,

23:29

like why get on there? Like

23:31

like you could do anything, I mean literally

23:34

anything. You could go anywhere, be with anybody

23:36

you want.

23:36

I think you start to believe the fairy

23:38

tales about yourself, especially when you become

23:41

the richest man in the world. You then

23:43

feel like, well, I have an

23:45

moral obligation to truly

23:47

save humanity, and there are many

23:49

ways in which I could do that, and starting

23:52

with free speech, which is under a tech

23:54

and I've got to take over the very platform

23:57

for free speech, the only one that there is. And

24:00

and also just to speak

24:02

on him and Carl Icon and all these people,

24:04

I think that they just they

24:06

probably lose touch with

24:09

whatever it was that truly made them feel

24:11

alive and now this business

24:13

and rocking. Like Gordon Gecko,

24:15

whatever his whole thing was, like greed,

24:17

greed is good? Was this thing I've suffered a little

24:20

bit of that. I'm a creative person myself,

24:22

and the whole reason that I got into trading

24:24

was to fund my creative ambitions.

24:27

And I just kind of like.

24:28

It's a classic tale and

24:30

then you end up a soul, you end

24:33

up tainted. Yeah, yeah, doing a podcast, Yeah,

24:35

you end up with a podcast about investing,

24:37

but it rocks. I do love it right well,

24:39

I mean it's going well right like you guys, are you

24:42

feel like it's things are growing like

24:44

this? The podcast world is hard. I mean I say this

24:46

as a person who's had multiple podcasts,

24:48

and like, you know, here we are on one right now doing

24:50

one. Do you feel like it's moving in the right direction,

24:52

like people are responding to it. There's like an

24:55

audience that you've you've built up.

24:57

Yes, I would say the most

24:59

interesting thing. And

25:01

it's kind of like what we were expecting to get

25:03

later on we got first,

25:06

which is that we got people first

25:08

who aren't interested in this subject

25:10

matter. Right. The way it worked was TMG

25:13

gave us the opportunity to tap into the audience

25:16

that they had already built and cultivated for themselves

25:18

just as a straight comedy podcast.

25:21

So for all intents and purposes, these people

25:23

should not have necessarily been interested

25:25

in what we were selling, but they were.

25:27

And the number one thing that people collectively

25:30

would say is, Wow, I didn't

25:32

give a shit about this stuff. You guys

25:34

make it entertaining.

25:36

Yeah, I think that's a magic trick that

25:38

is really valuable. Like I think if you can make

25:40

stuff that's really complex and

25:43

seems impenetrable, like understandable,

25:45

but also if you can make it funny or fun

25:47

like, that's a huge that's a huge deal. And

25:49

not that many people can do it, Like, I think it's a pretty

25:52

rare talent.

25:52

So, yeah, you're talking about you know, how

25:55

we feel and you know the audience and all that stuff.

25:57

We just did our first live show

26:00

in New York and it was that

26:03

was just huge. I mean, because we've been doing this

26:05

thing. It's basically it's just

26:07

like this, except you know, we're on our set

26:09

and we're doing it to we're

26:11

doing it to nobody basically, and right like.

26:13

Well there's somebody there, right, there's somebody behind it.

26:16

But you know, we're going, is this even

26:18

funny? Are we? And then to

26:21

do it in front of a crowd

26:24

and then you know, they all hung out after and wanted

26:26

to talk to us, and it was like, oh

26:28

my god, this is so great. It's not just some guy behind

26:30

a screen going like ha haha, or

26:32

sometimes like heat you, I can't believe you said that

26:35

or whatever.

26:35

No, live sh it's the best. I mean, that's amazing,

26:37

absolute best. Where did you guys do it? Bellhouse?

26:40

We're actually going to the Bellhouse

26:42

soon because.

26:43

There's a lot of a lot of live shit.

26:45

We did a caveat because we

26:47

we we had no idea if we could even

26:49

sell tickets or not.

26:50

We just how big? How big is?

26:52

It was a one hundred and fifty people that one.

26:54

Oh okay, ok, it's pretty it was uh.

26:57

We we put the link up and I remember I was about

26:59

to get in the show, and so we threw the link

27:01

up and then when I got out of the shower, Benet texted me and said

27:03

they were all gone.

27:04

So oh yeah, no doubt. I mean I would have.

27:06

I would have definitely. I mean, if not that you would need to come

27:08

and ask me for advice. But if you'd be like, hey, it's one hundred

27:10

and fifty percent venue, I'd be like, you definitely

27:12

can get more people than that.

27:14

Yeah, I mean we just had. Yeah,

27:16

so we're going to do the Bellhouse this summer, and.

27:19

Uh, that's exciting. I got to come. I gotta come and

27:21

check it out.

27:22

We love that.

27:22

Oh yeah, I love live. I think live

27:24

is great actually, I mean one of the things. I mean, at some point

27:27

we'll probably do hopefully do some some

27:29

roadshow with this. But like, because I

27:31

used to DJ and playing bands and and

27:34

there's it's pretty magical when you get like a

27:36

room full of people just vibing,

27:39

like no matter no matter what's going on, like if it's

27:41

if it's a comedy thing or if it's music or whatever,

27:43

it's like it's pretty magical.

27:46

Like, and I think I love the fact that podcasts have kind

27:48

of leapt in out of like

27:51

you know this, yeah, into something that is

27:53

really visceral. I feel like in

27:55

some way, especially lately it's been it is

27:58

a bit of a reaction to the

28:00

pandemic, right, Like everybody wants to be

28:02

in physical spaces with people now, right.

28:05

I feel like not to say that's why people come out

28:07

to see you, guys, they come out to see you because you're great. But I

28:10

do think there's a there's an excitement around the

28:12

live thing with podcasts. A new feels

28:14

new to me.

28:14

Yeah, I want to do it as much as possible. It's

28:17

like, it's so fun

28:19

and it just feels so nice to be in the room with

28:21

the people who like just enjoy

28:23

it so much. They seem to be just so excited

28:25

to like be hanging out with us and watching

28:28

us do it.

28:28

Yeah, did you record it and then you put it in?

28:30

I ordered it.

28:30

We haven't put it out, Oh okay,

28:33

probably not gonna Yeah, we want them to kind

28:35

of be I don't know. Sometimes people are like,

28:37

we're going on tour and you can listen or watch

28:39

to watch every single one we do, and.

28:41

Us we say cancelable things,

28:44

no, no, really do

28:46

yeah horrible things really?

28:48

Andrew give me an example, I.

28:50

Mean, name a racial slur.

28:52

Oh, Wow, Okay, I mean even that is could

28:55

we cancel? I mean, do

28:57

you actually feel like you cross a boundary

28:59

and a live No?

29:00

Not at all?

29:02

Really yeah, and.

29:04

It's very cool.

29:05

Definitely not, although we have to go back and listen to

29:07

be sure. No, I get

29:09

it. I've I've been in conversations with people, I mean,

29:11

even on this show, and I'm like, am I saying

29:13

something right now? That's going to really sound

29:16

wrong when I listen back to. Of

29:18

course, we have the power of editing. Well.

29:20

I think that's another thing. Even sometimes

29:22

when you're saying the most benign things,

29:25

you kind of find out later that some

29:27

commenter is like, I can't believe you

29:30

would say that, you're implying blah blah, and you're like, ill,

29:32

no, I'm not.

29:33

That's really Yeah, you've gotten a lot Have you gotten a

29:35

lot of any feedback like that? People were like, you

29:37

crossed the line? No, not a lot,

29:39

and it's happened here and there. Yeah, And

29:42

I think that's the weird thing.

29:43

Sometimes we'll respond and we'll go like, oh,

29:45

we did not mean that at all, Like I think you're

29:47

missing and people like just back,

29:49

They're like, oh, I don't you know I'm sorry,

29:51

Like it's a very weird no.

29:52

No, responding to critics is actually substantially

29:55

impactful. I've found I actually many

29:57

many years ago. Actually,

30:00

do you guys know a journalist named Walt Mossberg.

30:02

He is a technology journalist.

30:04

He's been around forever. He's retired now. But

30:07

I was like giving him shit on Twitter about something.

30:09

This is many years ago, Like this is like a decade

30:11

or fifteen years ago or something. And he

30:14

called me on the phone. He did

30:17

not tweet back at me. He did

30:19

not email me. He called me, and

30:21

I was like, holy shit, this is like an amazing

30:24

power move. And I have since done it.

30:26

I've adopted the practice like in a sphere

30:28

where you could get their phone number and call them. It's an

30:31

if you ever get an opportunity, I really recommend

30:33

it. Where you somebody's like being a shithead

30:35

to you or something, don't email them,

30:37

don't tweet at them, call them on the phone

30:39

and be like, hey, I want to talk to you about the stuff you were saying.

30:42

And I've done it a couple of times, and I gotta tell you, everybody's

30:45

me. They're like, oh, I'm so sorry. I didn't

30:47

mean it. The way it came out or whatever. It's a kind

30:49

of a it's kind of special.

30:52

I like that.

30:52

But yeah, but people will be reasonable if you

30:55

respond to him.

30:55

Yeah. But so that's where I think the live

30:58

element is much nicer, where

31:01

I think it feels to people like, oh, we're

31:03

all just here experiencing this. At the same

31:05

time, it's not, I don't know. There's something about online

31:07

recorded things where people watch them and they just

31:10

kind of feel like, I don't know, they want

31:12

to like pick it apart or interrogate things.

31:14

And right, well, part of it is also context

31:17

collapse, right, Like you get people will take us a

31:19

bit of something out of context, out of

31:21

not part of a conversation. You don't hear the rest

31:23

of it, and you're like, there's just that clip

31:25

that plays or whatever that somebody's sharing, and it's

31:27

like, okay, well context matters, right.

31:30

So Yeah, I've had that happen with TikTok,

31:32

where we've taken clips from either

31:34

our show or when we've been

31:36

guests on TMG or something like that,

31:39

where it then gets picked up on TikTok and

31:41

someone's ripping me apart in the comments or ripping

31:44

someone else and it's just like, God, you guys

31:46

just fucking.

31:47

I mean it's good though in a way, like I think

31:49

it's a sign that you're doing something right if

31:51

you've engendered an emotion as strong

31:53

as like a hater. Yeah, if

31:55

someone is like legitimately like this guy fucking

31:58

sucks, I hate his guts, like that, you're doing something right,

32:00

You're succeeding. Maybe

32:11

this is just a gag that you do, but you analyze

32:14

a bad joke that you've done, like a joke you did not execute

32:17

on the show. Is this like a recurring

32:19

thing for you that like you'll like kind of

32:21

make a attempt at

32:24

kind of bad joke or is that a bit in and of itself.

32:26

Is this like a you're legitimately critiquing your own

32:28

or trying to reframe your own bad joke or

32:31

do you know what I'm talking about.

32:32

Yeah, I feel like it's a little bit of both. I feel

32:35

like, a, yeah,

32:37

it becomes a bit and it

32:39

also if it if the joke doesn't land,

32:42

well I'm just gonna drive it into the

32:44

ground and agree with the

32:46

unspoken word that that was terrible.

32:48

Yeah, no, you did h on the on

32:51

the last episode, the one that I was just watching,

32:53

uh something about Jenny Ellen

32:55

saying that something's gonna

32:57

come quicker. Oh you we thought or whatever,

32:59

and and you're like, that's like what my wife said.

33:01

Then you did. Like there was like a solid like

33:03

forty five seconds of you going over that.

33:05

Joe he tries to take it again.

33:07

Yeah, And I was like.

33:08

Trying to figure out if like I'm trying to figure out if, like

33:10

you're if that was a legitimate I actually, I

33:12

mean this perhaps is your genius again,

33:14

Emil, I don't mean to focus on Ben and his

33:17

great comedy. Does the same ship? Does he

33:19

because he's Oh god, I feel like he's so much more put

33:21

together on the show. I feel like he's got a ship so much

33:23

more together.

33:24

Oh no, we're both maniacs.

33:26

No, there's actually a super cut of me screaming

33:28

at the editor cut that, and because they

33:30

never cut it, they go.

33:31

Like you legitimately upset.

33:33

No, No, it's a like if

33:35

I up. I'm like, oh please fucking

33:37

cut that.

33:38

And they're like, yeah, that's good. People

33:41

want to see that.

33:41

Realize it is

33:43

the parasocial relationship

33:46

is the thing? Is the is the one

33:48

point one jigawatts of podcast

33:51

fucking uh. You get where I'm

33:53

going with that.

33:54

Yeah, that's how you're going to travel to the to

33:56

the past, the future of this

33:59

future you have. Yeah, you have to go backwards

34:02

to go forward with Yeah, that's what they say, at

34:04

least based on the film, based on the sequence of the film.

34:06

That's my understanding.

34:07

That is true.

34:08

Okay, so let me ask you this. So, so you're a trader

34:10

band again, Emil. Sorry, I apologize, but this guy's

34:12

so interesting. I find him so fast.

34:16

I mean, like, you know what am I going to say?

34:18

You know, we're talking about law. We're gonna talk about you doing like pro

34:20

bono work for people down in their lockdown.

34:22

Any questions you got for him? Shoot him Adam.

34:25

Yeah, well you

34:27

said you mentioned earlier. I'm just curious. It was in the back of my

34:29

mind you were like, I made a ton of money and then I lost

34:31

a ton of money. Yeah, when you say you made a ton

34:33

of money, what are we talking about, because obviously

34:35

scales are all scales right different, But like, you give

34:38

me a range, and then I'd like to know how

34:40

you made it and how you lost it?

34:41

Sure, so real fast. I will plug

34:44

our very first episode, Episode

34:46

one, called get rich or die crying. Okay,

34:48

I lay it all out as as kind

34:50

of our primer primer or whatever for

34:53

the audience.

34:53

Primers is not so

34:58

I would like technically speaking, do yeah.

35:01

But anytime someone says that in the future,

35:04

okay, yeah, fucking edit that. But

35:07

we won't. Let's see, I'll

35:09

just cut right through it. My dad died

35:11

when I was twenty three, and when

35:13

he died, I got his third of

35:15

a you know, substantial inheritance

35:18

of like two hundred grand because

35:20

then my grandmother subsequently passed a

35:22

few years later. And yeah, yeah,

35:24

it's you know.

35:25

The story is not fun so far, just so you

35:27

know, it's just kind of a downer. So I'm

35:30

hoping it gets it.

35:30

Gets it gets uh, it gets better. But up

35:33

until that point, I had been trading and working,

35:35

and funny, all my money would go into

35:37

my trading account and then into the ether

35:39

because I would lose.

35:40

You were invested in ethereum.

35:42

No I wish. I remember being told about ethereum

35:44

at three bucks and I was like, that's oh my

35:46

god, stupid. Yeah.

35:48

No.

35:48

The worst is when you've had some bitcoin when it

35:50

was worth five cents.

35:51

I remember when it first debuted, and

35:54

I was like, this is fucking stupid, and

35:56

it just this will.

35:57

Ever be anything. Now we could have been fucking millk

35:59

I know, just by doing nothing.

36:01

It drives me. You're so stupid. But so I

36:04

had been trading at that point for close

36:06

to ten years.

36:07

Did you go to school for that or was this like a self taught

36:09

thing?

36:10

No, I studied. I studied philosophy

36:12

in college. Total waste.

36:13

And okay, well that's kind of a way

36:15

to get to yeah a little

36:18

bit, I find critical thing. Yeah,

36:21

but you're good at math, I said.

36:22

Oh, fucking terrible. I'm so bad.

36:25

Okay, so God kind of a gut thing as well.

36:27

Sure, that's how I thought. I'm like, I'm I

36:29

could do this. I'm smart enough. God damn it, I

36:31

can handle it. And I was I would

36:33

find myself making trades.

36:35

But then because of the small account

36:38

size that I had, I couldn't hold on for

36:40

long enough. I couldn't endure the losses that you

36:42

have to endure if you want to be a trader, because you need

36:44

Part of it is losing. In fact, most of it

36:46

is losing.

36:47

It's just that's I feel like the really successful

36:50

guys don't do as much losing as

36:52

you're described.

36:52

They do, but successful traders lose all

36:55

the time. It's about it's about cutting the losses

36:57

early and about knowing how to let the

36:59

winners ride. But so I

37:02

just took cut to it.

37:03

This is not financial no, no, just

37:06

chime in with that.

37:06

I keep going. But I ended up at

37:09

there was one year where I made like one hundred

37:11

grand or something, and then the very next year

37:13

I made a little over one point two

37:16

or one point three million dollars. So that's huge

37:18

fucking money, which when you're twenty

37:20

eight or however, all.

37:21

That was crazy. Any any age that's

37:23

like over a million dollars making over

37:26

a million dollars investing is like a very

37:28

good You've done a great job.

37:30

At the peak, my account size

37:32

had gone from two hundred k to

37:35

like two million.

37:36

Just out of curiosity, what were your big drivers there?

37:38

I just want to know.

37:39

I caught a lot of the marijuana

37:41

stocks, oh okay, and when they

37:43

really really had a big, big rally.

37:46

But among that were some options

37:48

trades that I that I did okay at.

37:50

But so when I go on to say I lost

37:53

a bunch immediately after making

37:55

that money, I learned about how

37:57

much I would have to pay in taxes. You

38:00

hadn't factored that, man, I mean I did,

38:02

but I didn't think that it would be almost

38:04

half of that money just immediately

38:06

vanquished. Gone.

38:08

Yeah, but still, I mean sucks.

38:11

Have you heard of decentralized currency, because

38:14

there's a really you know, you could just float

38:16

out.

38:16

Yeah, I should have done that.

38:18

Cryptocurrency is very hot. Tax

38:20

corn tax is very easy to avoid.

38:22

It made would have been nice. You gotta

38:24

stay liquid, you gotta stay right, you got it.

38:26

You can't really okay, but anyhow, so you

38:28

so you find you get your tax Yeah.

38:30

I had it. I had like a panic

38:32

attack cause I felt

38:35

like, Okay, I've made more money

38:37

in just a couple of years than my dad made

38:39

in his entire life. And

38:41

in my brain, the next thing, the

38:43

next logical step was to die like

38:46

he did. So I was like obsessed

38:48

with death for this couple months, and I'm smoking

38:50

weed and getting heart palpitations. And

38:53

then uh yeah, I paid my taxes. And then

38:55

I ended up overstaying my welcome in

38:57

an investment that I really believed in, but

39:01

mainly believed in because some guy who I

39:03

thought was way smarter than me, believed in more.

39:05

Yeah, and it just I probably lost

39:07

a guy you knew or a person you just like looked

39:09

at or watched on. The guy I knew, okay, who

39:12

had tipped me off to one of the big stocks

39:14

that was the bulk of my profits, and

39:17

he was like, I'm putting all my profits into

39:19

this other thing.

39:20

And I was like, well, he can't be fucking wrong. He's

39:22

a he's a genius, and he's way smarter than

39:24

me.

39:25

Yeah.

39:25

Right, All that's to say, I overstayed

39:27

my welcome and I lost like a

39:30

little over half a million dollars on that other

39:32

things. So I was like, oh, that's cool. I

39:34

mean I had other things going for me

39:37

that that did, okay, that kind of offset

39:39

that. But so yeah, I went

39:41

from my friends. It was very hard because

39:43

a lot of my friends were like, what do you you go to a million

39:45

dollars? I'm like, no, I fucking don't anymore?

39:48

Right I did?

39:49

I did?

39:50

Did you show me your tax.

39:51

I would tell him, I'm like, hey, I look

39:53

at this.

39:54

Look what the governments they took all this. Did

39:56

you feel like you were becoming radicalized by the way when

39:58

you saw the tax bill. Did you still to think about

40:01

how you needed to like hide your money from the government

40:03

you didn't want to pay taxes?

40:05

Yes and no. I definitely

40:07

was like, this is fucked up. I just

40:09

got this money. Do you have to take it

40:12

right now? Can I just can I

40:14

just do something else with it first? Like

40:16

really in my accountant.

40:18

Like reinvested in a sure thing

40:20

thing, yeah, double or nothing on a sure

40:22

back.

40:23

But put it on roulette like the FedEx

40:25

guy did.

40:26

So you cashed out of stuff then, I mean you didn't.

40:28

You didn't stay in the money like you were. You

40:30

took the you took it out. Yeah, well that was your mistake

40:32

right there. You gotta stay in the market. You gotta you gotta

40:35

migrate that to a nice slow

40:37

and steady.

40:38

I should have done that. That that might have been smart.

40:40

I should have brought I should have bought Nvidia. I should

40:42

have bought Tesla. I should have Ugh.

40:46

I mean, the most dangerous thing is that it's possible to have success

40:48

when you don't really fully understand what you're doing. And

40:50

then once you're up and you've

40:52

got options, that's when like it

40:55

becomes very complicated, Like you can make

40:57

a lot of really like, I actually, I

40:59

mean this is in any way comparable. But

41:01

I had a couple of a couple

41:03

couple of things I bought that just on I actually

41:06

like the businesses, some solar stuff that I

41:08

was like, I like what these guys are doing. I'm just gonna buy. I'm just

41:10

gonna buy a little bit. And it did amazingly

41:12

well over like during like in the mid mid pandemic

41:14

was doing amazingly. I know, everything was doing amazingly well,

41:16

but this was like outperforming everything, and I was like, things

41:19

are going so well, my gut is seems so great. I'm

41:21

just gonna go I'm gonna bet bet big on this,

41:23

like actually cannabis related

41:26

pharmaceutical business. They're like, we're gonna

41:28

do We're gonna come up with like gene just cannabis

41:30

gene therapy or something. I'm like, this sounds

41:32

good.

41:32

I like this.

41:33

I'm liking the feel of that. Just absolute huge

41:35

waste of money went to almost to zero at

41:37

this point, complete like never coming back,

41:40

like penny fucking stock and my

41:42

probably my largest amount of money I spent on

41:44

a single on a single ticker.

41:46

So you know, you can't wait them all, you can't

41:48

win them all. But I was like, that's like small potatoes because

41:51

I believe. I don't believe in my ability to gamble at all, like

41:53

you do? You gamble in Vegas?

41:54

Do either of you?

41:55

Are you either of you gamblers?

41:56

Never?

41:57

No, No, you don't go. You

41:59

don't hit the you don't hit the blackjack table.

42:01

I've done it before, but it's not like a

42:04

I'm never like, oh I want to go gamble.

42:07

Yeah, same Emil. Are you investing

42:09

like now? I mean, because you're obviously like in

42:11

this you're in this conversation, the ongoing

42:13

TRILLIONAI mindset conversation. Have you

42:15

become more of a so Ben?

42:17

What Ben does is trading. I don't trade

42:19

it all, but I have I buy

42:21

like index fund.

42:22

You're like long term like retirement

42:24

stuff. Yeah, you're like a normal

42:27

person.

42:27

The smartest thing.

42:28

There's no like huge

42:31

return like sudden dip

42:33

situation.

42:34

Yeah, I know that's so stressful.

42:37

That's not well. This is why you guys balance each other

42:39

out so well, because you got this the

42:41

impulsive gambler over

42:43

here, junkie junkie, right, gambler

42:45

junkie is willing to risk it all.

42:47

You know, you a gambler me.

42:49

Yeah, No, I don't. I don't.

42:51

I've never learned to play poker. I'm still not

42:53

sure how poker's played at all. Like I couldn't tell you

42:55

the first thing about how the game is played. Nobody

42:58

really knows, no, but people play it for sure. People

43:00

love poker. People are and I'm like,

43:02

I don't know, Like whatever this is, it's impenetrable

43:04

to me. And I can play, I can do very complex things,

43:06

like I can build a computer, but like I couldnt tell

43:09

you how to fucking what a poker

43:11

game does. No, I'm not I'm

43:14

not even remotely enticed by gambling.

43:16

And I could gamble, like it's not like I

43:18

don't have some money, right, Like it would be very

43:20

easier for me to go like fuck it, I'm gonna like take like ten

43:22

grand and I'm just gonna go fucking

43:25

hit the table that's blackjack.

43:27

Said, don't know you had it like that? That's sick.

43:29

I know a guy. I know a guy, an

43:31

old coworker of mine who could count cards

43:34

or basically count cards. He could get close enough that he

43:36

could go to a blackjack table and

43:39

win a lot.

43:41

Wow.

43:42

And I was like, Michael, here's like five

43:44

hundred dollars go play this. For me, I

43:46

was like, I'm not going to fucking play, but I'll but happily watch

43:48

you spend my money. And you know, it's like,

43:51

I don't know, we ended up a little bit up, but like

43:53

that's that's as far as I'll go, Like, I will delegate

43:55

my gambling to a person who knows better than I do, because.

43:57

I have friends who like to gamble, and

44:00

I think seeing them, it's

44:02

so unappealing when you're when you're around

44:04

people who really like it, it just feels so gross

44:07

and weird.

44:08

Yeah.

44:08

I remember we were in Atlantic City. We were

44:10

there for the weekend.

44:12

No matter what you're doing there, yeah, already,

44:15

already it's a dark it's a dark vibe.

44:17

And I remember, so we had a house that was it

44:20

was nice because we were by the beach, but and we were away

44:22

from all the kind of heart of the darkness.

44:26

And the first day our

44:28

friend comes back and he said he was down like

44:32

eighteen hundred bucks, and I was like, damn. And

44:34

then the next night he comes back

44:36

and he's like, let's go out. I'm up nine

44:39

hundred bucks and I said, holy shit,

44:42

you won. What's eighteen hundred plus

44:44

nine twenty seven hundred.

44:45

Yeah.

44:45

I said, oh, wow, you won twenty seven hundred bucks and he was

44:47

like, no, I won nine hundred. I was like, wait, but you're still

44:50

down, Like, dude, don't be such

44:52

a like oh, don't be such a

44:54

spoil And I was like, oh, all right, I didn't.

44:56

Well, that's the that's the that is the that

44:59

is not the trillion there mine mind set.

45:00

That is

45:04

resets every every day.

45:06

Does That's the thing. But that's isn't that the trick

45:08

of it?

45:08

Right?

45:08

Like you go, well, sure I lost

45:11

some money, but you know, out of sight, out of mind,

45:13

right, let me go hit the get some more of the

45:16

chips or whatever they give you. It's chips, right,

45:18

Yeah.

45:19

So watching people actually do it, I was like, I'm not built

45:21

for this.

45:31

Let's do predictions real quick, and then at a

45:33

later date we can come back and

45:36

check your predictions. All right, let's let's see. Okay,

45:38

you give me some predictions on what is going to

45:40

be the most overhyped

45:43

topic of the year in the world of business,

45:47

the most overhyped, most overhyped

45:50

trend.

45:51

I feel like I think a little bit of AIRR

45:54

is going to come out of the AI stuff. I mean, so

45:56

a lot of people are comparing it to

45:59

cryptos, and I think there is a lot of

46:01

comparisons there. Right, A lot of the money that's coming out of crypto

46:03

is going into like every business being like, oh

46:05

my god, we got to find the next big AI scheme

46:08

whatever. It's being implemented

46:10

into all these businesses and everyone's like,

46:12

and now we're powered by GPT four.

46:14

Yeah.

46:15

And I do think it's different

46:17

in it's different from crypto in the sense

46:19

that like there is a use case for it. There's

46:21

you know, there's there's utility in the

46:24

way that crypto took you know, ten

46:27

years to start and

46:29

they still don't have one.

46:30

But well, you can generate

46:33

value if you do it right, right.

46:35

Right, But it was just purely a speculative

46:38

asset that there was no real right. But

46:40

so I don't think it's going to go away, but I think

46:42

it might die down a little bit.

46:44

That's a good call. I agree.

46:46

I think I will jump

46:48

in and say, like, we'll come back and

46:50

revisit this prediction. But I think AI will prove

46:52

to be the most overhyped whoa

46:55

new thing. I just think it's this year's

46:57

it is this year's metaverse or whatever. Like

47:00

crypto is a good I mean, but that's like two I feel

47:02

like two years ago. I want to say, like mid pandemic

47:04

was the was the NFT boom that sort

47:06

of was like married up to

47:09

the crypto sort of the real crypto moment

47:12

maybe presaged a bit by the crypto moment,

47:14

like NFTs were certainly like occupied

47:16

an entire year of bullshit,

47:19

right yeah.

47:20

But the but the real difference feels like

47:22

there there are use cases here, right. For

47:24

example, when Duo Lingo is

47:26

talking about implementing their

47:28

chat butt where you're now you

47:31

know, talking to someone where you can.

47:33

I'm just thinking of the thing just making up fake words.

47:37

That's the kind of shit that it.

47:38

Does, right, yeah, right, right, that's the problem.

47:40

But if it can get to a place where they can actually

47:43

do these things and and the if the promise

47:45

is real, then you're like, okay, that's kind of you

47:47

know, there's a real use there.

47:48

There's a real sure No, I agree,

47:50

I agree. AI is definitely a more interesting

47:52

technology, and I think has u the

47:54

prospect of it turning into something real as much

47:57

higher. But there's no killer app

47:59

yet. There's like cool tricks, right

48:02

right, like and cool tricks don't make like don't

48:04

make a business.

48:05

Yeah, but I mean, I mean, I do think it is putting

48:07

some people out of business. For example, I think art

48:10

generation is a real oh

48:12

yeah thorn in the side of any kind of graphic.

48:14

Do oh no, it's fuck eddy images.

48:16

Yeah yeah, I actually uh made It's

48:18

funny because I was time of making music, but I've been doing

48:20

it like as a hobby now and I just I was, you

48:23

know, I'm putting out a new song on a new

48:25

track, and I was like, I need I need art

48:27

for this, like just for fun, and

48:29

I use mid Journey and it produced

48:32

like fucking very cool results for the thing

48:34

that I wanted. And it's like, yeah, I know it definitely

48:36

one percent. Like that's the place where there's

48:38

real I mean, it's an edge thing in

48:40

the sense that not everybody's an artist, right, there's not

48:42

like the there are a lot of people who work in

48:45

that field and design and art that are going to

48:47

get screwed by it. But it's

48:49

not like, wow, it's replacing you know, the

48:51

factory workers who build cars. Like it's not exactly

48:54

the same, right, I mean, though it presumably

48:56

can as well. Once we get into a terminator

48:59

body, I assume, right,

49:01

that's the book. Well, that's like the guy from

49:03

Google's like, once they put this in a in a terminator

49:06

body, we're all screwed. It's like, no,

49:09

don't do that. Then I guess, like, don't put it.

49:11

Kidding, don't put.

49:11

Also, they got to be the first. But also

49:14

like you could turn the fucking robot off. People are acting

49:16

like I hear people talk about the future

49:18

of AI like destroying humanity. It's like, you know,

49:20

like we don't have the good robots right, Like

49:22

they're not really that great. Like the

49:24

Boston Dynamics dog can only jump around

49:26

for like ten minutes before it needs a fucking charge.

49:29

They're getting pretty good.

49:30

They're getting good. They're getting good, but like they're

49:32

not gonna kill you, Like you can

49:34

like put them in water and then they stop functioning.

49:37

I welcome it, honestly. Let the Bosting Dynamics

49:39

dog kill me already.

49:40

Let it fuck my wife.

49:41

Dude, Wow, are you even fucking

49:44

married? No,

49:46

you made an ex wife joke and now you're making a

49:48

wife joke. But I liked it. That's you're saying.

49:50

That's great. We love to do that. We we both

49:52

we we love joking about our non existent

49:55

wives.

49:55

Neither one of you were married. You're both single. Ye

49:57

single, you're out there.

49:58

In our minds.

49:59

Were married, but I am single

50:01

and thirty five.

50:02

Wow, you're looking for love?

50:05

Can you describe it?

50:06

Can you describe your perfect partner? Let's hear who you're

50:08

looking for, what kind of person you're looking for? Maybe we can make

50:10

this happen.

50:11

Let's see, she's got four legsic

50:14

body.

50:16

Made in a facility in Boss.

50:18

I know, I know, just.

50:19

Boston Dynamics dog. But with a great

50:21

rack.

50:22

They can do that. They can do that for sure, that's one they

50:24

can do, no problem. Like a Boston Dynamics

50:26

dog with great tits is definitely

50:28

a thing that can happen.

50:29

So my other prediction, my other prediction

50:32

is that Ben will be married to a Boston

50:34

Dynamics dog.

50:35

But Bus, I feel like you just use it. I feel

50:37

like you're just using recent data on that.

50:40

All right, we need at least one more good prediction. I'll let me

50:42

think of, let me think of. Oh, oh, here's

50:44

a good one.

50:45

Oh, let's hear it.

50:46

Will Elon must be the owner of Twitter and

50:48

or will Twitter be in business by the end of twenty twenty

50:50

three.

50:50

I think he will still be the owner. I think that to

50:53

mask a bad Tesla corder,

50:56

I predict that he will probably announce

50:59

someone is stepping in to take over as a

51:01

CEO of Twitter, which will satisfy

51:04

the market enough to further

51:06

booie Tesla's stock

51:08

price, because I think Tesla's scene

51:10

has its best days behind it in terms of

51:13

the stock price.

51:13

Yet what about the what about the actual product?

51:17

Uh? When I drove a Tesla

51:19

years ago, I fucking loved it.

51:21

I was like, this is how driving is

51:24

meant to be. And I'm really pissed

51:26

off that I didn't buy the stock back then, even

51:28

though at the time it was valued at like eighty

51:30

billion dollars and I thought, well, it's it's

51:33

all priced in at this point. I missed it. But

51:36

I think that the competition

51:39

is has caught up, and

51:41

I think the damage that he has done

51:44

alone to the to the brand

51:46

value is irreparable. I think people

51:49

who have wanted a Tesla, or thought about

51:51

getting a Tesla, or even own a

51:53

Tesla don't want to be associated

51:55

with I don't know how you feel like I'll tell you what.

51:57

I've least two don't

52:00

like it because I feel like I want to upgrade every time every

52:03

few years. I'm not going to get

52:05

another Tesla, like I won't buy another Tesla or

52:08

well no, I know, like like there's a ton of great shit

52:11

out there. I mean, yeah, but that's the but it is

52:13

like I mean, Ben as you were saying, right, it's the one two punch.

52:15

It's like the brand has been kind

52:17

of tarnished and there's great competitors

52:20

in the market now, so it's like what's

52:23

the edge.

52:24

Right, Yeah, Because he was untouchable for

52:26

so long, he could continue to make lofty

52:28

promises that the market chose

52:31

willingly to look past

52:33

or just blindly believe. And I

52:35

think his douchebaggery is

52:37

starting to really have an impact

52:40

on the things and the promises that he

52:42

makes, and people are starting to not just

52:44

blindly swallow the bullshit anymore. Yeah.

52:47

I gotta say, though, I will say one thing about

52:50

about why I don't want another Tesla. I

52:53

mean, yes, like his all of

52:55

his stuff definitely colors it, like, but

52:58

they're legitimately some dumb

53:00

fucking things about the car that drive me that are

53:03

so minuscule and yet so

53:05

preventable, so avoidable, and

53:07

drive me insane. Like, for

53:09

instance, this is

53:12

the one that probably bothers me the most. You know, when

53:14

you flip down, you know the visor you can flip down in

53:16

a car. Yeah, you know

53:18

how they attach those little things, You kind of push them up

53:20

into they're like a little like half circle and you

53:23

to hold them in place. Yeah, on the Tesla

53:26

there's no half circle. You don't push them into place there.

53:29

It's a magnet that holds them on into place.

53:31

And you know what, every fucking time I go

53:33

to a just advisor, it detaches from

53:36

its base and slides forward

53:39

and I have to reattach it to the magnet because it doesn't

53:41

hold as good as the little fucking piece

53:43

of plastic that every other car has. And

53:46

I'm like, this was something that you didn't need

53:48

to touch it all you need to go here. Everything

53:50

was fine. This is not an innovation.

53:53

Like, why it's fucking annoying.

53:56

My big beef with it is that they put a lot of

53:58

things in those cars that then

54:00

other car companies started to be like, well, this is what people

54:02

want. And one we complain about often is that

54:04

now every car thinks that every

54:07

car company thinks that people what they want is a huge

54:09

fucking screen in the middle of the car that

54:11

has every you know control.

54:14

Yeah, and I just saw an

54:16

article that I guess companies are rolling

54:18

that back. They're like, Oh, people do not fucking like

54:21

when you have to swipe through pages to find the climate

54:23

set it.

54:24

It's crazy. No, it's great. I have to I have to go

54:26

into a menu to open the glove box. Literally

54:29

literally, that's all it's not. That's not an

54:31

exaggeration. There's literally like a I have to open

54:33

a menu and then there's a little symbol and it's like you hit glove

54:35

box and you open it. You can also put a pass

54:38

code on it, by the way, if you've got your gun in there or whatever,

54:40

which I assume you know most people.

54:41

Josh, you'll like this. That reminds me

54:43

of when right before

54:45

the iPod first came out. I

54:49

was a big mini disc guy. I

54:51

fucking I'm a big I'm a fan.

54:54

I get it, and I just

54:56

I would rave about it to my friends. But then

54:58

when they would ask me how it worked. As

55:00

it was coming out of my mouth, I knew that it sounded

55:03

so impractical. It's like, oh yeah, no, they're

55:05

like, can you buy mini discs with the music on it? I'm

55:07

like, like some maybe a

55:10

dozen artists on it. But here's the cool

55:12

thing. You hook it up to your CD

55:14

player and you press play on the CD

55:16

player and record on the on the mini

55:18

disc player and it it you

55:21

know, it migrates it over now, but it records

55:23

it in real time. It doesn't even like upload

55:25

in a few minutes now.

55:26

I mean, you're listen, you're you are right,

55:28

And yet there is something just innately

55:30

cool about the mini discs, Like it's like the one of

55:32

the most cyber of all products ever

55:34

made.

55:35

It was fucking awesome.

55:36

It's like the matrix. It's like a matrix object

55:38

and it actually there are many discs in the matrix. In fact,

55:40

I think the software that Neo is given is on mini

55:42

discs. Yeah, which because because the Waikowski

55:45

is new. That's fucking cyberpunk and

55:47

that's how you do it. Okay, one more quick thing

55:49

and then we got we gotta wrap up because we now it's like fucking

55:52

two hours of this nonsense. Apple

55:54

VR heads, have you heard this rumor? Yes,

55:57

here's my take on this. This is never going

55:59

to happen. Like, it's not They're not going to release this product.

56:01

Give me your take. That's my my prediction

56:04

for this year is this will be an

56:06

infinitely delayed product

56:09

that never sees the light of day.

56:10

I mean, isn't it already? Hasn't it been? Like

56:13

it's like every year they're like,

56:15

oh, we're doing.

56:15

It well, and yeah, it's like the car.

56:18

Remember when every talking about the car was going to happen, or

56:20

the TV. There was a it was talking about they're going to make a

56:22

TV. Yeah, there's just products. I think they're

56:24

real inside of Apple. But

56:26

then somebody goes like, that's

56:28

not it.

56:29

This isn't gonna work.

56:30

Yeah, we're not gonna go to sell a bunch of this. I just think anything

56:32

you gotta put on your face is fucking da Yeah.

56:35

I think that the only way that it

56:37

could work is if there were no there

56:40

was nothing covering your eyes and it

56:42

was more of an ar experience.

56:43

Yeah, but like you used to have to wear something on your head,

56:46

you just think about it.

56:47

Do you wear glasses? I used to up

56:49

until December and I got LACEI.

56:51

Why'd you oh, because why'd you stop wearing glasses? Glasses

56:53

are cool because I

56:55

just I want I didn't want to wear glasses.

56:58

It was impulsive. I'd been wearing him for like

57:00

a decade.

57:01

Is there some reason you didn't want to have them on your face? Is

57:03

that what I'm UNDERSTANDE. I just was like, yeah, I mean

57:05

I gotta change it. You think you'll wear the Apple a R Thing?

57:08

Nah? No, it probably wouldn't be me.

57:10

What do you think would you wear the Apple a R Thing?

57:12

No?

57:12

I mean I've tried. I've tried uh

57:15

VR stuff. I don't want anything on my head.

57:17

You doesn't want to get bullied by high school Nobody wants

57:19

That's right.

57:20

Nobody wants anything on their heads. So unless it's fucking

57:22

invisible, Yeah, Like I would do an eye

57:24

like a contact that is like AR that

57:27

might be cool. I go for that. They're not releasing

57:29

that they don't have that they have they have

57:31

like a visor like Jordie LaForge and fucking

57:34

Star Trek the next Generation something

57:36

like that. All right, great, that's not really nothings

57:38

been a real prediction about that. I guess I'm making

57:40

a prediction that it'll be infinitely delayed

57:42

and never release. But uh, anything you want

57:45

to tell the audience about trillionaire mindset, oh

57:47

ship, or anything else for that matter.

57:49

We didn't prepare for this.

57:50

Oh really a lot

57:52

of second Yeah, go ahead.

57:55

I'm been fuck they already

57:56

know.

57:57

Uh you you should go subscribe to

57:59

our show on you too. You should also

58:01

go find it on whatever audio

58:04

thing you listen to podcasts on rate

58:07

us and listen to us.

58:08

Truly, if you just google trillion in our mindset

58:11

or put punch it into Apple Music or Spotify

58:13

or whatever, you'll find it and you'll listen

58:15

to it, and we think you'll really really enjoy it.

58:17

You're the only trillion in our mindset, right, There's

58:20

not another one.

58:21

Yeah. We get a lot of like,

58:23

oh, I'm not really interested in that kind

58:25

of thing. But you guys seem fun. I swear the show

58:27

is still fun, and you might you know, are

58:30

you.

58:30

Telling yourself out of the audience. I feel like the

58:32

show is fun. I've just seen it and it's enjoyable.

58:35

Yeah.

58:35

Yeah, but we get we get people who

58:38

are are maybe afraid of the subject

58:40

matter sometimes, but we often

58:42

say give us a chance, and when people do, they go, wow,

58:45

this is very fun.

58:46

No, I think it's good. I think it is a lot of fun. And I

58:48

think you guys are like, you know enough to be dangerous,

58:50

but you don't know so much that you're so sure of yourself that it's

58:52

like a Joe Rogan experience or whatever.

58:53

Like that's exactly know what we want. I think.

58:56

No, I mean, I think you could get to a Joe Rogan

58:58

experience level in terms of your power. But

59:00

I think what's what's interesting about listening to what I

59:02

what I have enjoyed from what I have heard

59:05

and seen, Well, one is the

59:07

desk is great. That's number one. If you're gonna it's

59:10

a great It's just a great, wonderful

59:12

desk. Got nice colors, nice shape.

59:14

It's really really actually kind of looks like

59:17

those one of those Bow's wave radios. Do you remember

59:19

the ones that were kind of tall? I don't know.

59:21

Yeah, designed it was designed

59:23

with that in mind.

59:24

It has kind of a shape of a Bo's wave

59:26

radio. But no, I think what's good

59:28

about the show is that you guys are

59:31

not you're not taking yourselves too seriously,

59:34

and you're making things that are

59:36

often like a real down are like pretty pretty

59:38

accessible. And I think that's a huge that's

59:40

a huge asset and like the fact

59:43

is like you're not, like you don't

59:45

have an ego about it. I think that's great. There's a lot

59:47

of people in the world, in the world of investing, like

59:49

who'd want to talk about like where

59:51

money's moving that have like a huge

59:53

ego about it, And I think, like it's actually very refreshing

59:56

to listen to people who are like.

59:57

Yeah, so those guys are kind of like our I

1:00:00

guess issues sometimes where I think

1:00:02

we get lumped in with them. When people

1:00:04

hear about the show, they go, oh, finance

1:00:06

bros. Pass and it's like.

1:00:07

No, no, no, a glance. I mean, look at you.

1:00:10

I mean I understand, Like right, they see you,

1:00:12

they see the still frame, they see trillionaire

1:00:14

mindset. You got a couple

1:00:16

of bros.

1:00:17

We thought that the name itself indicate

1:00:19

that we're being ironic.

1:00:20

Unfortunately, in that world people are like,

1:00:23

yeah, I could do a trillion I can get there.

1:00:25

It's our fault for picking an ironic title.

1:00:27

Yeah, exact, it's good.

1:00:29

I think it's real. I thought I think the titles great, and I

1:00:31

think that the right people will read it, thank you

1:00:33

the way you want them to read it. And the people who'd read

1:00:35

it the other way are stupid and suck and

1:00:38

you don't have to worry about them.

1:00:39

All right.

1:00:39

Any other closing thoughts before we before

1:00:42

we go into that grade to beyond, just that

1:00:44

this was very lovely and I appreciate you having

1:00:46

well, I feel that it was lovely as

1:00:48

well. I really enjoyed this conversation. You guys are

1:00:51

super fun duo. You have

1:00:53

a lot to say. You've said

1:00:55

a couple of things that are cancellable, but I think

1:00:57

you know you can weather the storm

1:01:01

and you know, yeah, we gotta do it again. We got to come

1:01:03

back and we got to see if any of these predictions are We'd

1:01:05

love that. Yeah.

1:01:05

Maybe if we're in the same location, we can all do

1:01:08

it irl.

1:01:09

Yeah, well you guys are in La right, Yeah,

1:01:11

that's where all the That's what it all happens. Yeah,

1:01:14

it's all happened anyhow.

1:01:15

This is great.

1:01:15

Thank you so much for doing it, and we'll

1:01:17

do it again.

1:01:18

Great, Thank you for having.

1:01:19

Us, Josh,

1:01:25

Well, look that is our show. I think you know, I think you know

1:01:27

where I've had it with this. That is our show for this

1:01:29

week. Because it was it was a big one.

1:01:31

We covered a lot of ground. We

1:01:34

left no stone unturned. We got

1:01:36

the full reveal I

1:01:38

would say spoiler alert.

1:01:41

We said it all and so we've

1:01:43

got to wrap up. But we will be

1:01:46

back next week with more what future

1:01:49

and as always, I wish you and your family the

1:01:51

very best