0:19

Hey, and welcome to What Future.

0:21

I'm your host, Joshua Tapolski, and

0:23

today we have a very special

0:25

episode. I have to say, I want to bring it just

0:27

bring it down a notch. I want to bring it

0:29

down several notches. Very

0:31

special episode. You may or may not know

0:33

this, but my brother I have a brother. First off,

0:35

he may or may not know that. His name is

0:37

Eric, and he's my

0:40

older brother. Though many people say that

0:42

they think I'm the older brother because I'm so sophisticated

0:44

and mature. Eric is a

0:46

musician. We've made music together,

0:49

but also he's made a lot of music separately, and he

0:51

has a band. You've probably heard me

0:53

talk about before.

0:54

Maybe you haven't. I don't know. I don't know what you've

0:56

heard.

0:56

I don't even know who I'm talking to when I say you, I'm

0:59

not sure who I'm envisioning. But at any rate,

1:02

he's got a man called Tan Lines with

1:04

his friend Jesse, our friend Jesse. They've

1:07

made a lot of music and then they took

1:09

a break, and they've just recently released a new

1:11

record called The Big Mess on

1:14

Merge Records, which is a great label. You

1:16

know, I say this understanding that

1:19

I can't give a fair and balanced

1:21

review like a Fox News host. I can't

1:24

just go straight down the line and tell you

1:26

know the truth, but I will say my

1:28

truth is I think it's a great record and it's

1:30

got really really good, smart,

1:33

interesting, sometimes

1:35

funny songs on it. Again,

1:38

I say this as a as a man

1:40

with a lot of personal investment in the record,

1:42

because my brother made it, you know,

1:44

and I like to support stuff he does. But I will

1:47

say forgetting that I can be a very

1:49

cruel and mean spirited

1:51

brother, and I think if the record sucked,

1:53

I would definitely say it.

1:54

And it doesn't.

1:55

I really enjoy it, and so I thought it'd

1:57

be fun to have him and Jesse

1:59

on the.

2:00

Podcast to talk about making.

2:02

The record and probably you know, some other

2:04

things, because they're both very interesting

2:07

guys with a lot to say.

2:09

So that's what I've done.

2:10

We've got Eric and Jesse here and we're going to talk

2:13

about music and more so,

2:15

let's get into it.

2:33

Now.

2:34

We're here to talk about a new record.

2:36

Is that correct? Is that?

2:38

What I'm is that what I'm to understand.

2:40

They're telling me that you guys have put out a

2:42

hot new LP. Now I haven't

2:44

listened to, but everybody on the team has listened

2:47

to it and they say it's just fantastic, just terrific

2:49

stuff. So tell me a little bit

2:51

first off, tell me a little bit about yourselves and tell me

2:53

about this new album.

2:54

So this is Josh's Morning Zoo.

2:56

Right, So the tan Line has just put

2:58

out this new album and Tony,

3:00

have you heard this here?

3:01

It's crazy music. I don't even know what the

3:04

of these songs are they are they?

3:06

Are they singing? Are they rapping? No one knows

3:09

anyhow.

3:10

Okay, so tan Lines, you went on hiatus,

3:13

you both had several children.

3:14

Is this how you do the pod?

3:16

I just go in.

3:17

I don't do this intro shit. I'm here

3:19

with Jess, you neric from tan Lines.

3:21

I don't do that shit. That's fucking dumb. But you

3:23

do it like you record like an intro. Later later

3:26

I'll do an intro, like a little bit of me talking

3:28

about like why we're doing this podcast.

3:31

And I like that.

3:31

You've listened to the show, you know now? You know so

3:34

obviously you've listened to many I've been off

3:36

podcasts on it. Fair enough, listen, like

3:38

I said, I've said, yet to listen. I sit down and put

3:40

the album on. You know, but I

3:43

heard there's some great tunes on it. I've told there's

3:45

some great music on that thing. You heard the test Press.

3:48

I've heard all of it. I've heard the album many times. We have

3:50

it down at the store. We put it on, you

3:52

know, and it's like that scene in High Fidelity

3:54

when Jack Black puts on with

3:57

some whatever records. I'm obscure. It's like, I

4:00

don't know, it's Jesus Lizard

4:02

or something. Everybody's like, you know, what is

4:04

this is great? And he sells six copies of it.

4:06

But what do people buy when our album's playing?

4:08

Actually, the other day a

4:10

guy bought Sounds to the Lambs

4:14

Bastick River

4:17

and he passed on a Heat too

4:19

because he hadn't seen the movie yet, which

4:21

is strange to me because he was like a forty year old man,

4:23

so.

4:23

I've never seen Heat.

4:25

I mean that we should just do a whole show

4:27

on that.

4:28

We should just I don't want

4:30

to talk about anything else, actually

4:32

except that you're I don't want to. We don't have to get

4:34

into your exact age, but let's just say you're you're forty

4:37

three, You're okay if you want to put it out

4:39

there.

4:39

That's fine. If you want your Wikipedia page.

4:41

To be updated, have had it, but please

4:44

should be so lucky. But you're

4:47

a forty three year old man

4:49

in America. Yeah, and you've

4:51

never seen Michael Mann's nineteen

4:54

ninety five crime drama

4:56

Heat.

4:57

Is that correct?

4:58

Yeah?

4:59

That's weird, is there? And you've admitted that from the

5:01

films you've watched it something? Do you have

5:03

something against Michael Mann or do you hate great films?

5:05

Or what is it?

5:07

I think it's really long. It's

5:09

like two and a half hours. It's average

5:12

nowadays.

5:13

You know, it's like, it's not eighty eight minutes like

5:15

a movie from nineteen eighty six. But you

5:17

know, you could do it. I think two sittings.

5:19

Maybe I heard it. It

5:21

looks like slow and has

5:23

gun violence. And I'm

5:26

not a big with Pacino and de Niro.

5:28

I'm not.

5:28

I don't really care about either of them.

5:29

You know.

5:30

Actually, I guess say something. There

5:33

are some scenes of gun violence in it. That's

5:35

correct, though. I will say

5:38

the film is punctuated by gun violence,

5:41

but I would not say that's the center of the film's

5:43

drama, if that makes any sense.

5:45

I mean, I guess the allure

5:47

of those two actors doing a

5:49

movie together just didn't speak to me.

5:51

That's unusual. But beyond

5:54

that, I forget about the actors.

5:55

Forget about Pacino and Danira, who are of course

5:57

both Oscar winning actors,

6:00

and I would say at the time they did heat at

6:02

really the top of their game.

6:03

Eric, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong.

6:05

But the Oscars famously have never

6:07

been wrong.

6:07

Too. Well.

6:12

Wow, Actually, I think we're getting a little

6:14

bit of a look into what drives

6:17

you know, at least some of tan lines, at least one

6:19

half of tan lines. So we're getting a

6:21

picture, a little peak behind the curtain of

6:23

a man who's it's against against

6:26

nature, against the against good

6:28

things. As the wave comes crashing,

6:30

you stand unmoved.

6:32

By the motion of the sea. And

6:34

I think that says something about.

6:36

You could say that I danced to my own drum

6:38

machine.

6:40

You could say that, and you have. And now it's going

6:42

to go on the promo clip for this episode.

6:44

So so you know, it's

6:46

your you made, it's your it's your

6:48

show, it's your bed to make, and you've certainly

6:51

done it.

6:51

It's my epitaph.

6:54

All right, Okay, now we got now that we

6:56

shook our sillies out, as they say, I

6:58

think we can delve in to the

7:01

real reason we're here. First off,

7:03

I should say up front, I guess I don't

7:05

know.

7:05

I don't know.

7:05

Who's listening to this podcast that doesn't

7:07

know this, but I'm gonna just I want to put it out there for the

7:10

for the sake of transparency, I want

7:12

to fully disclose the relationship here.

7:14

Eric and I are brothers.

7:17

We grew up together in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania,

7:19

and we shared a home for at least a

7:21

few years, and we do share

7:24

parents.

7:24

True or false, all.

7:25

True, and

7:28

and Jesse's just a buddy. But

7:30

I think if we told people he was related to us,

7:32

they wouldn't They would not bat an eye. They would

7:35

go, yeah, three Jews just hanging.

7:36

Out tall, one tall, three

7:39

tall Jews?

7:41

Which was it? I'd understand one of the alternate names

7:44

for tan lines before you went with that.

7:47

Okay, you'll get back into it.

7:48

Here we go. Jesse was just telling me the Jews

7:51

are typically short, and I didn't really think that's

7:53

that's a thing.

7:54

I think, like a Portnoy's Complaint era, Jew

7:56

is considered to be kind of a you know, and that there's

7:58

a corridor let's you know, where there's

8:01

the Jews and popular literature

8:03

are depicted like a Woody Allen.

8:05

This would be a kind of prototype exactly the

8:07

example he used. Yeah, well, Woody

8:10

Allen.

8:10

But but I want to say that that the main character

8:12

of port Nooy's complaint, whose name I

8:14

believe is, I want to say Portnoy, Yes,

8:18

oh port Noise complaint. You for Rebby, He wants a heat

8:20

interested. I want to say he's described

8:22

as being short, but I'm not actually sure if

8:24

that's true or not. He's he has a short

8:27

personality, that's for sure. Certainly gives

8:29

short, Yes, he's giving, he's

8:31

giving short. Anyhow, Eric

8:33

and I are brothers. Jesse and I are not, and

8:36

but we have worked on music together in the

8:38

past. We have worked on Professor

8:40

Murder music, a former band of yours,

8:43

which you know the other day I was listening to and I

8:45

have to say, pretty good, holds up,

8:48

pretty good stuff, pretty enjoyable.

8:50

Love that all right.

8:51

So look, we're gonna get deep inside the guts

8:53

of the music industry in your place within it. But

8:55

I want to start at the very beginning. Do you know

8:58

the official year that tan Lines became a

9:00

thing. What was it? We

9:02

printed it on the shirts? Two thousand

9:04

and eight. All right, two thousand and eight.

9:07

You guys are making what I would describe as a

9:09

kind of I mean, to be honest

9:11

with you, when I first heard tan lines. Now

9:14

the listener may know, hopefully the listener knows.

9:17

You know, I used to make music. I used to make technive music.

9:19

Actually, I just released to electronic

9:22

dance songs recently in

9:25

the last month or two, just for shits

9:27

and giggles, just for the hell of it, you know, for sport.

9:30

But I used to make music.

9:31

And when you guys started making music together, I was like, oh,

9:33

they're making You guys are sort of making like dance

9:35

music, which I thought was surprising.

9:38

Well, Professor Murder had a dance vibe to it.

9:40

But I mean, Eric, you

9:42

never expressed an interest in techno music when we

9:44

were working on music together.

9:47

Do you think that was do

9:49

you think that was personal? I

9:52

mean, I'm thinking back to the dance

9:54

group that we had before Dan one dance

9:56

track, that's true, Yeah, going globus,

9:59

that's true.

10:00

So we didn't make a lot of dance music though, you.

10:02

Know those records come up sometimes on eBay.

10:06

They do? Are they valuable?

10:07

Hey?

10:07

You know?

10:07

Also I'm trying to

10:10

remember how I saw this. They're signed

10:12

photos of tan lines, you know, on

10:14

eBay of me, Like

10:16

I did. I googled myself and it

10:18

came up in an eBay search, And

10:21

I'm like, I have one specific memory

10:23

of like an autograph

10:25

shark, Like this is a guy that just

10:28

gets everyone's autograph so he could sell later.

10:30

And this was outside the Jimmy Fallon show. Okay,

10:32

And like this guy was not a fan. I could tell this

10:35

guy goes to every show. There

10:37

was a music artist with a

10:41

right, if ever I should become famous. Right, it's

10:43

like a little investment. Right, that's smart.

10:46

Actually not a lot of effort, low

10:48

investment on his part, but high reward.

10:50

Possibly.

10:50

Oh, it takes a whole day. He has to spend

10:53

the day waiting outside the Jimmy Fallon.

10:57

Sure, well he

10:59

probably makes it today event you can go.

11:00

You could start at the Today show in the morning and work

11:03

all the way into doing.

11:05

The guests on the show, so he probably gets everyone's

11:07

stay.

11:08

Cup.

11:08

I could think of lower

11:11

effort gambles you could make. But we

11:14

also saw this in Sweden. It was every

11:16

time we played in Sweden, there were always people

11:19

just like waiting outside of the club who

11:21

were asking for autographs.

11:24

It's interesting. I can think of the one time in

11:26

my life.

11:26

I think the one two times in my life I've asked for autograph,

11:29

and so I guess I kind of understand what it feels like.

11:31

I know there are people who like to collect autographs or get

11:33

autographs. Mine was a Shagirimamoto,

11:36

the creator of Super Mario

11:38

Huge at CS

11:40

when I was thirteen years old in Chicago.

11:44

And the other one was John Carpenter, who

11:46

I paid for a VIP backstage

11:48

meet and greet with him because he's

11:51

awesome, And I thought, when am I going to get a chance

11:54

to hang out with John Carpenter for five seconds

11:56

in a completely artificial manner,

11:58

And you know, it was where it anyhow, kise

12:01

Wait and Sweden, people were coming and asking photographs

12:03

that you didn't think we're fans.

12:04

I know they weren't.

12:05

Oh, how did you know you can't judge a

12:07

book plays They didn't come to the show. Maybe

12:09

they couldn't get in the tickets were sold out. They wanted

12:12

to, they were such huge fans, but it was too.

12:13

Late to believe me.

12:15

They weren't sold out. Actually,

12:20

that was one of those shifs in Sweden.

12:22

I also remember where we got

12:24

the excuse from the promoter.

12:26

They were like, oh,

12:30

don't worry about it. Everyone

12:32

gets paid once a month and

12:34

it's next Monday. So that's

12:37

probably why no one came.

12:39

You guys missed the doll the dole

12:41

window had not yet opened or

12:43

whatever, so otherwise it would

12:45

have been a sold out show the.

12:47

Twenty ninth day. Really bad timing.

12:49

I have to say, as far as excuses

12:51

go for things, that's like

12:53

a pretty pretty good one, pretty impressive. It's

12:55

not like it's not like, sorry, we didn't you know,

12:58

our promoter was out sick or something, and it's like,

13:01

because of the social politicals nature

13:04

of this country, you were

13:06

unable to fill the venue.

13:07

But it's not.

13:08

It has nothing to do with you.

13:09

And completely to do with our political

13:11

system and our social care networks that we have

13:13

here.

13:14

It's very interesting stuff.

13:16

I mean, I do think that the selfie

13:19

has like replaced the autograph

13:21

like probably ten years ago.

13:23

I think that chained that shift happened. Yeah,

13:25

and yet there's Eric's autograph on eBay.

13:28

Just waiting for someone to buy. Well, somebody's trying to get rid

13:30

of it. You know, they'd rather have a selfie.

13:32

I find.

13:33

I find as as a former musician, one

13:35

of the most we're talking about finding an autograph

13:37

on eBay. But one thing that I've

13:39

always dreaded as being in a record

13:41

store in like their dollar bin and

13:44

finding my record.

13:45

That, to me is feels like a.

13:48

Very bad It's not that bad. Oh, it's

13:50

happened to me. It happened to Jerry's actually in

13:52

Pittsburgh. I my one of my records

13:54

is in the dollar bin, and I was like, you know, I

13:56

deserve this, This is this is how I feel.

13:59

I'll be happy to be any bin.

14:01

You know, that's just an opportunity to reach

14:03

a new audience. You know how hard that is in music?

14:06

Right, It's like a jack when Jack Black puts

14:08

on that record in high fidelity. Okay,

14:11

anyhow, so you guys started making music in two thousand

14:13

and eight, and you made music until

14:16

what was the year where you kind of took a break?

14:18

Twenty thirteen? Is that the right is am I saying that? Right?

14:20

Is that the right? Year?

14:21

No? Fifteen sixteen, twenty fifteen

14:23

sixteen.

14:24

We played it south By Southwest twenty sixteen.

14:26

And then Trump was elected and you went on Twitter

14:29

and you said, I can't make art in

14:31

a fascist dictatorship.

14:34

That didn't happen, but there was definitely

14:36

a period where I felt like we were an Obama

14:38

era band.

14:39

Mmmm, so

14:50

you guys stopped making music for a while.

14:52

I want to talk about this during the Trump era, not

14:54

to say there was anything political about it.

14:56

Coincided with the birth

14:59

of my first born, so right,

15:02

really the band was starting to slow

15:04

down a little bit. My son was born,

15:06

and I took some time back to like

15:09

be a stay at home dad basically, And

15:12

just like a lot of people, when you leave your

15:14

job to raise a family, sometimes

15:18

it ends up taking longer than you

15:20

plan to get back to work.

15:23

Well, families are fairly complex, but a lot of people

15:25

don't realize how much work having a

15:27

family is.

15:27

I think anybody thinking about having a

15:30

family listening to this episode

15:32

should know how much we know and

15:35

how much we've seen. You mean

15:37

from a family as far as famili as our parents,

15:39

as being you know on the other side,

15:43

and it's you know, something you have to

15:45

be ready for.

15:46

You know, I would have liked to have had kids

15:48

when I was a little younger. I had a child at

15:50

a I wasn't old, but

15:52

older, And I don't know, I feel like

15:55

my energy levels are not what they used to be. I

15:58

was it was nine years years ago. So

16:01

whatever the math, how are the math works out on that? Like

16:03

thirty something thirty was thirty

16:06

six?

16:06

Thirty six? Yeah, I mean, which

16:08

is like New York, you know, kind

16:11

of right median age for

16:13

a lot of people having kids.

16:15

In New York. Yeah, right, Yeah.

16:17

My brother and sister had their kids

16:19

earlier than me. And the way my brother, whose

16:21

oldest kid is twenty one

16:24

now, god, you

16:26

know, he was like, yeah, you either, you know,

16:28

have your kids first and then you do your living,

16:31

you know, once they're moved out of the house,

16:33

or you do your living first and then

16:36

you have your kids. Yeah, And it

16:38

seems like that's kind of a way to

16:40

think about it.

16:41

I think that's a very very practical

16:43

way to think about it. Yeah,

16:46

And that I think brings us back to the music.

16:48

So you guys were making a lot of music and then you stopped,

16:50

you had families to deal with, Like

16:52

you said, Jesse.

16:53

Not that your life stops when

16:55

you have. I get it, but it does reorient

16:58

you.

16:58

Yeah, yeah, of course.

17:00

You have different priorities. I mean,

17:02

that's understandable. And you did do

17:04

a little You did do some kid music in the interim,

17:06

which was cute. Just I feel like it was

17:08

a little bit of a lark. But you guys released

17:10

some children's songs at one point.

17:13

Yeah, true or false? Eric, I see you,

17:15

but we did. Yeah, you've make it a face.

17:17

Not really sure why, but.

17:19

No, I do. I was a you know, document

17:22

of where we were at the time in our lives. It was like,

17:24

we wanted to make some music and this was as much as we

17:26

could really do. And we were both doing, you know, the same

17:28

kind of thing. But can I ask something, can I

17:31

deposit something? Maybe get your response to it?

17:33

Sure?

17:33

Sure.

17:34

The music industry also went through like a dramatic

17:37

upheaval in the time that you began

17:39

making music to even I mean

17:41

obviously till now, but there was a that's

17:44

a really interesting era where

17:46

the internet, and I frankly like that has

17:48

a lot to do with mobile devices and phones

17:51

and things like Spotify appearing, the

17:53

rethinking of the way people even engage

17:56

with music. The music industry

17:58

that you we're at

18:00

in twenty sixteen is pretty different than the one that you began

18:02

in two thousand and eight.

18:04

I would agree. I would say

18:06

that the difference between two

18:08

thousand and eight and two thousand and

18:10

sixteen, when we

18:12

kind of stopped for a while, was

18:15

way bigger changes than what's happened

18:17

from twenty sixteen to now.

18:19

Right, No, I think that's right.

18:21

I mean, like many things in culture, actually,

18:24

I think twenty sixteen is a pretty good place to put a pin

18:26

in a bunch of cultural things

18:28

that just sort of continued

18:31

to grow and become more all

18:33

encompassing.

18:35

Two thousand and eight, we started in the talent

18:37

started in the MySpace era CDs

18:41

big. The big thing in that we

18:43

printed our MySpace address on

18:45

our first record for regreta Blake

18:48

is but no, that's cool, but when

18:50

we signed it is actually grown

18:52

to be cool. But when

18:55

we first signed our first record deal,

18:57

you know, the big thing was selling MP

18:59

three on the iTunes store, Like

19:01

that was the benchmark of

19:04

how you

19:06

you know, just sold music basically

19:09

right right right, yeah, iTunes sales.

19:11

I looked at my tune core recently and they're like, there's

19:14

iTunes sales on it. I'm always like, you

19:16

know, it's not very much, but I like, who's who bought

19:19

who bought the single?

19:20

They bought a song. This

19:22

is a strange you could

19:24

see.

19:25

It was like that period where like the record

19:27

labels had like sort of

19:29

reluctantly accepted that, like selling

19:32

digital was what they had to do because they

19:34

were built to sell physical, right,

19:36

And then they had adjusted to selling digital

19:40

in the eight years since since

19:42

then, obviously streaming became the

19:45

thing that they learned to accept.

19:48

And in the eight years from twenty sixteen

19:51

till now or seven years, it's

19:54

not it doesn't feel that different. I

19:56

mean, TikTok is I guess a big huge

19:59

difference, and social media is

20:02

I guess a big huge difference. But that's a little bit more

20:04

on the marketing side of things.

20:05

But isn't everything marketing to some degree?

20:07

Now?

20:07

Is it more than ever? I mean, maybe I don't

20:09

want to go down a rabbit hole here, but I might

20:11

for a moment. I mean you should,

20:14

you know, when you think about the progression of how

20:17

we even listen to music. Yes, there are

20:19

all these technological changes, right, it's streaming

20:21

now versus buying an album or whatever.

20:24

But Also.

20:26

What music is to people has

20:28

changed in the sense that if

20:31

you go back to like pre internet

20:34

and pre music music being readily

20:36

available on the Internet, or things that are like music

20:38

for instance, video or streaming like

20:41

content. You know, music

20:43

is in many ways like the cultural carrier.

20:46

Like there's not a lot of things that permeate culture

20:48

in the way that music does it.

20:51

And it permeates through like radio

20:53

and MTV, yes, of course, but

20:55

much more gate kept channels

20:58

of distribution, but also much more

21:00

universal channels of distribution. Right,

21:03

So in the nineteen eighties, like

21:06

your culture was music, Like people

21:08

identified culturally through music,

21:10

right, I mean when you think about the subgenres

21:14

of music, right and you think about like punk

21:16

rock or you know whatever,

21:18

it wasn't just like people listened to music. They

21:21

were identifying who they were

21:23

through music. And I feel maybe

21:26

this is just me randomly plucking

21:29

signals out of thin air, But doesn't

21:31

it feel like what music is to people now

21:34

doesn't carry the same cultural weight in

21:36

a way, Like I feel like people listen to music

21:38

to be seen listening to music or to talk about

21:40

listening to music. But I don't know how

21:42

much there's like people who define who they

21:44

are through music the way they used to. And

21:47

maybe this is just an old person talking.

21:49

I think you're wrong, really yeah,

21:52

I mean I think it's changed. But

21:54

like the Internet has accelerated

21:57

fandom like in an unbelievable

21:59

way across the board, and music

22:02

is probably the place where you see

22:04

it most. I mean, people identify.

22:05

But is fandom the same thing. I'm

22:08

not sure it is.

22:08

So I agree with

22:10

you that it's less like I'm a punk

22:13

rocker and it's.

22:13

More like I'm a Swift d Yeah, but that's

22:15

a that's a pretty big difference, of

22:18

course it is, you know. I mean, yeah, I

22:20

see what you're saying. But like I feel like Taylor Swift

22:22

fandom is not

22:24

the same thing as as discovering

22:27

like this world of music

22:29

and then having it at, you know, sort of shape who

22:31

you are as a person, which

22:33

happened to a lot of people.

22:35

I think it is for them.

22:38

I think it's I do think it

22:40

is not that different, Like it's an identity,

22:42

you know, it's Taylor

22:45

made no unintended in that case for

22:48

like, you know, a

22:50

certain type of consumption that's

22:52

different than it was back in back in

22:54

the day. Like we're viewing the lens through

22:57

like one particular brand or

22:59

ill right. I mean, first of all, there

23:01

are definitely people who identify as like I'm into country,

23:04

I'm into no.

23:04

Of course people still there's still people who find

23:07

there, you know, find themselves through music.

23:09

But I'm saying that, like there was a period where

23:12

what was on the radio was, Oh, just

23:15

lost my video for some reason.

23:17

It's too hot. Your takes are No.

23:20

I think my camera overheated, which

23:22

is unfortunate. They put the

23:24

air on in here. Maybe it's too warm in

23:26

this room.

23:26

This happened to us on stage once at Governor's

23:29

Ball. Oh really yeah, like

23:31

you're what what wait?

23:32

What what?

23:33

Fan? Our computer overheated?

23:35

Overheated.

23:36

It was just like no, sorry overheated.

23:39

Yeah, no, it did an it

23:41

was, but I think the people out there thought

23:43

we were doing like a remix because it sounded all

23:45

crazy.

23:47

What did you do?

23:48

We stopped the show and

23:51

they brought out a fan. They literally

23:53

brought out a fan and put

23:55

it on our computer. I was like, this will

23:58

never work. Yeah,

24:00

and I reset the computer and it

24:02

worked and we finished the set and like I

24:04

actually learned a really important lesson that day

24:07

because I was like this is the most

24:09

mortifying and humiliating thing that can

24:12

happen. The worst has happened. We're

24:14

on a big festival stage, there are thousands

24:16

of people watching us. We are completely

24:19

exposed and vulnerable because we rely

24:21

on the technology. We don't have

24:23

a backup plan. That literally the worst

24:25

happened. And then everyone

24:28

I talked to afterwards was like, great show,

24:30

And I was like, didn't you I was like, oh, that

24:32

was really hard. They're like, what are you talking about. I

24:35

was like, well, we had these technical problems. They're

24:37

like, oh, okay, Yeah. I

24:39

was like, no one thinks about you as much as

24:41

you think about you.

24:42

And also at a.

24:43

Festival especially, it's like

24:46

people paid four hundred dollars

24:48

for those weekend passes or whatever, Like they

24:51

want to have a good time, and they're going to have a good time.

24:53

So they're going to shape their own

24:55

reality to just to kind of smooth

24:57

over the rough patches.

24:59

Yes, yeah, I mean that's

25:01

interesting. They were very understanding of

25:03

what was happening, and I think you

25:05

know, there was a roaring applause when the computer

25:07

booted up and we went back right.

25:09

Yeah, let's sort of I get that. It's sort of in

25:11

a way you overcame you

25:14

all together overcame a

25:16

difficulty to party.

25:17

Odd.

25:18

There were like ten awkward minutes.

25:20

I don't think most people really knew or

25:22

understood.

25:23

What'd you do?

25:24

It was ten minutes. It was ten minutes. I

25:26

don't know. It felt like an eternity, but it was

25:28

probably.

25:29

Yeah, it was certainly like

25:32

too long.

25:33

Yeah.

25:33

Yeah, Now you can just plug in an iPhone. You'd

25:35

be fine. You have something, you have something

25:37

else with songs on it.

25:38

Right, we always had that and we never

25:41

used it once. I don't know why we didn't. We

25:43

always had like an iPod or we had a

25:45

backup for a while that we ever did come back.

25:47

Yeah.

25:48

So getting back to the music thing, Yeah, yeah.

25:51

To me, when I think about the industry of music,

25:53

I think it's like one of the hardest, ugliest,

25:56

you know, most difficult places

25:58

to create art. It's a real industry

26:01

of haves and have not. I mean, everybody everything

26:03

is to some extent, but music is especially

26:05

like brutal in the sense that you're kind

26:07

of putting your A lot of people are putting

26:09

their like heart and soul into this piece

26:11

of work, and often like it's really

26:13

performance art, right, like you have to perform

26:15

it, like in many ways you have to literally perform

26:18

it, and a

26:20

lot a lot happening in this question.

26:22

It it's just the way music

26:24

had changed.

26:25

Have any impact on your

26:27

decision to step back to focus

26:29

on other things? Was there any bit of that

26:31

those in that decision? Was there any bit of like,

26:34

you know, it's hard to juggle both things, But does

26:36

it feel like the landscape went and moved in a

26:38

different you know, in a way that you guys, I

26:41

don't know, didn't like.

26:42

No, I'll give my answer, then Eric

26:44

can give his, which is I don't think

26:46

the landscape shifted in the

26:48

sense for the decision. I think

26:50

it's always been hard for people

26:52

to make music their living and their job,

26:55

whether it's two thousand and eight or

26:57

nineteen eighty five or twenty twenty

27:00

three. So I do think

27:03

that it factored into my decision

27:05

about wanted to take a step back. It

27:08

factored into my day to day decision

27:10

making. It's like, do I want to hire a babysitter

27:12

for eight hours to go over to the studio with

27:15

Eric and like maybe write

27:17

a.

27:17

Song right kind of a luxury?

27:19

That seemed like a hard thing to do, But

27:21

in terms of what you're saying, like in

27:23

the ways that it changed. I don't

27:26

remember feeling like, hey, man, if

27:28

it was two thousand and five, then we could sell

27:30

these CDs, I'd be right back out

27:32

there. But nowadays,

27:34

with the Spotify and the no

27:37

I don't remember thinking that. I mean it was hard

27:39

in two thousand and five too. I mean it

27:42

was never an easy thing. So I don't

27:44

remember feeling like, you

27:46

know, there's other artists that might disagree with

27:48

me, people who made a living off

27:50

of CDs, which like I never did, so

27:53

right.

27:53

You didn sell a lot of CDs that we're saying.

27:55

I never like lived through

27:57

the era of like, oh I sold my record

27:59

enough time? Is that like that's where my income

28:02

comes from. So I don't

28:04

remember feeling like, oh, things have changed in the way I don't

28:06

really want to do this anymore. I was more just like, oh,

28:08

I have these other responsibilities. This is a hard

28:10

way to make a living. I want to find a way

28:12

to make music, but I don't know if I want to organize

28:14

my whole life around it or not.

28:16

Right, I mean, Eric, do you have a response

28:18

to this question. Yeah, I mean,

28:21

it's not the kind of business

28:23

you can expect to have a

28:25

paternity leave package from so right,

28:28

I don't know pretty much. I agree with everything Jessie

28:30

said.

28:42

We're not talking about the like do I want to keep

28:44

making music in some form or another?

28:47

Like do I want to keep writing songs? Like that's a

28:49

constant I think, I mean, I think we know the answer

28:51

because you just released a new record. Yeah, but even

28:54

without doing a new record. It's like the discussion

28:56

we're having is about like the job of it, I think,

28:58

more than the art of it.

29:00

Right, Yeah, there are plenty of people

29:02

who make records you know, at

29:04

home for themselves after eight and

29:06

they enjoy it very much.

29:07

Yeah, like it and that's good enough.

29:09

That's what I do.

29:10

That's what I do.

29:10

Yeah, yeah, and you don't need other

29:13

parts of it.

29:13

Well, what I what I discovered is is what

29:17

if I was making music just like for

29:19

fun?

29:20

If it was just for fun? Yeah?

29:22

Anyhow, Sorry, I didn't mean to get into this like thing.

29:24

And maybe it's my thing honestly because I think about

29:26

it a lot about like doing jobs

29:28

that are the things that you're passionate about, and

29:31

what it's like to turn something that

29:33

you feel really strongly about, like creatively

29:36

into something that becomes you

29:38

know, work, which maybe

29:40

this is well trod territory, but

29:42

I think it's yeah, you know, I just

29:44

think it's interesting.

29:45

It's a bad business, and I wouldn't encourage anybody

29:47

to do it unless they felt like it was their calling

29:50

and they were passionate about it and wanted

29:52

to do it no matter what. And that's what you kind

29:54

of have to think, like, you know, like you're like, this

29:56

is what I do right, right,

29:59

You kind of have to have that attitude, especially if

30:01

you're going as long as like, you know,

30:03

I personally feel like I am right.

30:05

Well, I mean, you've been in bands since how old were

30:08

you when you were in your first act?

30:09

I've done in my whole life.

30:10

It's all I know how to do. It's all that I do well.

30:12

I mean, you and I used to play music together in our

30:14

basement when we were teenagers, like like young

30:16

teenager when I got old.

30:18

Were you in your first band? Like, first

30:20

real band was it Don Cab? I

30:23

was Storm and Stress. Storm and Stress was pre right

30:25

pre Don Cabin And that's the first real band.

30:27

Yeah, there was no brother's band. You guys

30:29

never did show together.

30:31

We jammed and played.

30:32

We played a block party.

30:33

Right played the block party. We did Battle of the Bands

30:35

in Mount Leban.

30:36

Tell me about them. What it was your set?

30:39

We just talked. I just saw Scott. Did I

30:41

tell you? Did I tell old friends Scott?

30:44

The first thing he mentioned to me was, honestly,

30:46

even right now, I can't remember the name of the band is something vulgar.

30:48

But remember when we did the

30:50

thing at the Battle of the Band.

30:52

Yeah, it was like the name of the band

30:54

was something like a

30:56

lot of Dysentery or something.

30:59

Of the band was lot of dissentery.

31:02

I don't even have to I can't believe I fucking remembered

31:04

it because I remember almost nothing.

31:06

He remembered all the songs. He's like, I remember

31:08

bagels and cream cheese. You know we

31:10

do the do we do six sixty six? The beast

31:12

inside of me who was singing. Scott

31:14

was our singer. He was a wild man, still

31:17

is a wild.

31:17

Did he do any of our songs that we You and I

31:19

did that we we can't. We Eric and I had

31:21

did like fake No, we had our own songs. Yeah,

31:24

we had on like thrash songs. This is Eric on

31:26

guitar and you on drums. Yeah,

31:28

and I think me singing in

31:31

different for different songs. When we were

31:33

first playing in our basement,

31:36

the songs were like I would say, we

31:38

were sort of joking. The songs were

31:40

all funny, like kind

31:42

of like sludgy metal, like demonic

31:45

metal, sort of related things.

31:47

Wanting to be serious, but with like enough self

31:50

awareness that you're not really that thing, right.

31:52

Like one of the songs six six

31:54

and then in parentheses the beast inside of me

31:56

that was the and I wasn't serious.

31:59

I mean I was thirteen or something. It was I thought fun

32:01

funny.

32:01

It seemed funny like some like some forty

32:03

one like it was kind of but not some forty one

32:05

style music.

32:06

It was very different than that. But they

32:08

obviously weren't taking themselves too seriously.

32:11

Yeah, but I don't know if we performed any of those anyhow.

32:13

Yeah, we played Battle of the Bands. Eric and I didn't

32:15

make music together till we were till we were

32:17

much older, till he had had a

32:19

music career and I'd had a music career separately,

32:22

aside from Flood of dysentery. Flood

32:24

of dysentery, which was just for

32:27

fun. It was for I think It started

32:29

with me and Eric playing and then there was some battle

32:31

of the bands in a suburb where our

32:33

friends went to high school, and we

32:37

were like we should do it, and it was like the It was like

32:39

three of Eric's friends and me playing drums

32:41

and Eric and it was nobody was

32:43

taking it seriously. It was a complete joke. It

32:46

was like it was something to do. It

32:48

was the culture that that that begat

32:50

jackass, that was that we also we

32:52

were doing. We were like skating And there

32:55

was a famous story about one of Eric's friends that he went

32:57

into uh he went into like Weddy's

32:59

in order to frauds and then when he got the frosty,

33:01

he smashed it into his face and you

33:04

know, every thought it was like amazing because it was just

33:07

so stupid. And

33:09

I think, like that's kind of like the vibe. It

33:11

was like amazing because it was so stupid.

33:14

As how my memory, Eric, does this sound wrong?

33:16

My misremembering sounds hazy,

33:19

hazy, hazy. It was a pretty specific memory

33:21

for me, honestly.

33:22

But I have a vague memory, a vague

33:25

memory.

33:25

Jess, you kind of have a skeptical look on your face.

33:27

I'm trying to figure out, Oh.

33:28

Oh, you guys sound like really

33:31

cool, dumb teenagers and doing

33:33

those things. That sounds great, And you were not

33:35

sarcasm. Now you're sarcastic right now.

33:37

No, I'm saying. You were saying how you

33:39

missed doing it for fun, and then you immediately

33:42

told this story about when you did it

33:44

for fun. Yeah, totally for fun.

33:46

But I think like even at a professional

33:48

level, you kind of have to approach it as like

33:50

a thing you enjoy, and the reward

33:52

of it is like you get to do a thing that's fun

33:55

for your job, right. Yeah, So for

33:58

me that's like I'm not I'm not. I don't feel guilty

34:00

when I'm having fun making a song, right.

34:02

But the inverse of that is the thing you do for fun becomes a job,

34:05

right, And like when things become a job, they

34:07

often become less fun.

34:09

It is weird, like with music

34:12

that it's one of the few things where

34:14

it's like success is determined by

34:16

just being able to make any living

34:19

off of it, right.

34:21

Not being too stupid rich, but like, yeah,

34:24

oh, I don't have a I don't have a day job.

34:26

I just do this, right. There's a lot of careers,

34:28

creative careers that are like that, and

34:30

you know, I tell people, well, I was most was

34:32

my job for almost ten years, and people

34:35

are like, oh my god. And it does actually

34:37

put I would say, yes, in the top percentage

34:39

of for sure musicians

34:42

in the world.

34:43

That's correct.

34:44

There's a vassie of people who would love

34:46

to make a living, any kind of living ever, on music

34:48

and will never do it.

34:49

And I felt it very, very, very

34:51

fortunate to be able to live that life

34:54

for the time that I was able to do

34:56

that. But what

34:58

does that say about the how we value

35:01

music? You know, it's you

35:04

know, I can't help but feel like music

35:06

is sort of returned in some ways

35:09

to this pre commercial

35:11

era when it was just like music

35:13

existed in your life because there were people

35:16

playing it. And I think as

35:18

an industry, we've it's just

35:20

sort of coalesced on so few,

35:22

so few people, right that now

35:24

the majority of music is just something

35:26

that exists around us.

35:28

Oh that's interesting, actually.

35:30

I mean I had this singer

35:32

and songwriter Penelope Scott on the show,

35:34

and I became like obsessed with her music.

35:37

I just think it's super fucking interesting. It's extremely

35:39

weird, and it's like a mixture of like folk

35:41

music and chiptune stuff, and

35:45

you know, she got popular on TikTok, But

35:48

like I think, to ninety nine out

35:50

of one hundred people that I mentioned her too, nobody

35:52

knows who she is, and yet she has

35:54

a following where she does shows. And I mean, you

35:56

know, maybe I'm like countering the point

35:58

that I made earlier about you know, how

36:01

we identify ourselves to music or whatever. Maybe

36:03

it's more possible than ever because there's more

36:05

music than ever, right, I mean, we're we're a

36:08

wash in new music, in different

36:10

music, and you can

36:12

reach more people like than

36:14

ever before. When you were making music,

36:17

Eric, at the beginning, it's like, to

36:19

find Eric's music, you had to be somebody

36:22

who read a weird newspapers

36:25

or magazines or listened to lived in

36:27

a place that had a record store. Like

36:30

the barrier to finding that music was so

36:32

high. Right now it's insanely

36:35

low. But we have this inverse

36:37

situation where it's just like, you

36:40

know, there might be millions and millions and millions of people

36:42

who know that song of that artist you were talking

36:44

about, who have no idea who sang

36:46

it.

36:46

That's correct, and that is actually that is the case.

36:48

And we talked a bit about the kind of way that music

36:50

spreads on TikTok and how people remix

36:53

it and use it in all these different contexts. And it's like

36:55

the that's I mean, I don't know, that's

36:57

the same thing as like finding your fan base. That's

36:59

like, you know, your music can find a home, but not

37:01

necessarily one where you know you're you're

37:04

connected to it.

37:05

That's the difference between listeners and

37:07

fans, right, And so like people

37:09

now and all the marketing you're talking about

37:12

is like how do we connect listeners

37:14

to fans? How do we turned listeners

37:16

into fans?

37:17

Right? That's really interesting.

37:20

Actually you're making me rethink my I feel like I came

37:22

into the.

37:22

Conversation with a very dour attitude about music,

37:24

thinking like and in fact, Laura and I were talking about

37:26

this last night about this the

37:29

way that people used to kind of like define

37:31

their personality

37:34

because they had to be your thing about like if

37:36

you wanted to find Eric's music, you had

37:38

to you know, have a record store in your town or read

37:41

like the city paper or whatever it is. But

37:43

also like it was your network, right,

37:46

your network was your network, you

37:48

know, like but you know the

37:50

people you knew if they were into it would

37:52

like lead you into it, and then you could go further into

37:54

this thing and you'd feel like it was yours. Like

37:57

like I don't think Swifties, it's not

37:59

quite the same thing as Swifties because it's because

38:01

it's a very productized

38:04

version of that thing. You

38:06

know, they didn't know what to do with One Hit Wonders at

38:08

some point, like they didn't know what to do with people who had to hit. But

38:10

then like you know, maybe they knew

38:13

somebody like something about them, but they couldn't fgure out how to like

38:15

extract anything more from them. And then I think

38:17

in the nineties we figured out how to like turn like One

38:19

Hit Wonder Disney teens into like

38:22

lifetime sort of like

38:24

artists like Britney Spears. And I

38:26

think a lot of it has to do with like figuring out

38:28

how to productize, how to productize

38:31

fandom, how to productize like this feeling that

38:33

you are part of this club that is

38:35

special to you. But that's not the same thing as

38:37

finding it on your own, you know, that's anyhow,

38:40

But to your point, there are things you can find

38:42

on your own, perhaps more than ever, and maybe.

38:45

That's I think the like fundamental

38:49

essential part of music, which is

38:51

like that it is accessible, it

38:54

delivers emotional depth

38:56

really easily and really quickly, and visceral

39:00

impact like it physically moves you. And

39:02

the fact that like you can acquire it passively,

39:05

so like there's an ambientness to music

39:07

that doesn't exist with like movies

39:10

or TV doesn't work that way anymore.

39:12

You're not just like flipping and you stumble upon

39:14

something.

39:15

Right, No, that's right. TikTok is the closest thing we have

39:17

to flip in at this point. Actually,

39:19

sure, they're right, that's true. Yeah, but music

39:21

has always had it.

39:22

You could passively acquire it, so like

39:24

you could hear the song ten times without trying,

39:27

and then you'd be like, oh, I like that song, right, you

39:29

know. It's one of the reasons that music

39:32

infiltrates us so deeply and

39:34

people connect with it so deeply. None

39:37

of that's changed.

39:38

That's interesting. You're giving me a it's a weirdly

39:40

positive view on the whole thing.

39:43

That's me for me, Like aging

39:45

gracefully is like always trying

39:47

to find a way to sort

39:50

of be open to how

39:53

music and the world has changed and

39:55

the experiences that people are having

39:57

with music are mean just as much to them as

40:00

they did to me.

40:01

Hmm.

40:01

I think it's really important to remain focused

40:04

on that.

40:04

But I want to talk about the record because we've

40:06

sort of circled around the fact that you guys put out

40:08

So I was getting to as

40:11

we got into this whole conversation about like the nature

40:13

of music and how it affects people and how people

40:15

come to it, it was the fact that you

40:17

kind of went away from it and then came back to it, and

40:20

you know, listen, I have Look, I'm biased

40:22

because you know, I know

40:25

you guys obviously, Eric, Eric is my brother,

40:27

and Jesse. I know you very well, and I know a lot about

40:29

you as people, as humans outside of

40:31

the music. And I don't want to have a

40:33

conversation where people to have conversations about

40:35

music. They're like, what's I actually I was joking about at

40:37

the beginning, like tell me about this new album, what's it all

40:39

about?

40:40

And I don't want to do that.

40:41

I don't think we need to, but

40:43

I am curious to know, like why

40:45

it felt like there was a moment

40:47

here, or why I felt like these songs needed

40:50

to exist. Was there something

40:52

that spurred you to like make

40:54

this thing real after all

40:56

the time, or was it just like you had the time to do

40:58

it.

40:59

Yeah. I think after

41:01

the pandemic started and when I

41:03

came back to New York

41:06

after being away from New York for a while and I

41:08

had not been working on music, I opened up the computer

41:10

just to see what I had last been doing. And

41:14

I can't say what happened in that moment. I heard

41:16

it and I was like, this was

41:18

actually good.

41:20

Was what was I doing with

41:22

this? And that happened

41:24

more and more as the pandemic was happening. We

41:26

were inside our apartment, you

41:28

know, and I

41:30

kept going back to music, sort of like how

41:33

I've always done when I'm in a time of crisis,

41:35

which is like go to the guitar, go

41:37

to the room. You know. When I was a teenager,

41:40

I would go up to my room and blast a record when

41:42

I was mad or angry or sad or

41:44

whatever. And I think that that happened

41:46

in the pandemic, and I had the opportunity

41:48

to return to it in like more

41:50

of a way than most people probably do, Like,

41:53

oh, I actually had a band, and I have things

41:55

under my belt that I can continue on with.

41:58

Should should I choose to do so,

42:01

And then you know, as I started

42:04

making more and more songs, I was

42:06

like, well, I got to talk

42:08

to Jesse about it and see what, you know, what's

42:11

what's next, what to do with it, you know, and

42:15

deciding to call it tan Lines at a time where

42:17

it didn't necessarily feel like it was

42:20

developed in a way that Tan Lines typically

42:22

developed an album. Uh,

42:24

you know, I wasn't sure if I should even call it that.

42:26

So, I mean that's interesting

42:28

though, like in this period where people

42:30

were really and I'm not trying to say this is like a pandemic

42:33

record. I know you've kind of shy away from the concept

42:35

of it. I think everything after the pandemic is

42:37

a pandemic something. So yeah,

42:39

right, well, yes, of course these I don't think

42:42

these songs speak to my experience in the

42:44

pandemic. But what you're

42:46

describing of this, like you're doing this thing on your

42:48

own and then coming back to this partnership

42:51

with Jesse, has a real like

42:53

reflection of a pandemic sort of state of

42:55

mind in the sense that everybody was,

42:58

you know, separate. I'm not trying to read into this, I swear,

43:01

but everybody was separated and doing their own

43:03

thing, and now we're like kind of pulling back together.

43:05

And I feel like, to some extent, the way

43:07

the record developed, knowing that you had worked

43:09

on a lot of these songs on your

43:11

own and then you and Jesse sort of

43:14

came back together to put the record,

43:16

to build the record, I mean, I

43:18

think it's I don't know, maybe it's reflective of that

43:21

era of our lives.

43:22

I think that it has evolved in

43:24

such a way that like there's a there's

43:27

a full returning to work story built

43:29

into this.

43:30

Definitely.

43:32

Your first video was a Zoom presentation.

43:33

Yeah, basically yeah for the

43:35

rec met Yeah, well it

43:37

was it was like I was joking, like,

43:40

you know, we're in our remote work era now,

43:42

so like.

43:43

That was the right and that's essentially,

43:45

yeah, this is return this is your return to office.

43:47

Though really.

43:50

I think that you know, Eric

43:52

and I as experiences are pretty different

43:54

in that like I went

43:56

and found other jobs and like

43:59

before doing music, I was had

44:01

I was an archivist for ten years and like

44:04

once we took a break, I like went out and

44:06

took a job at YouTube and ed

44:08

Nike and I have had this like brand career

44:11

also, right, I think, you

44:13

know, that difference between

44:15

us has always been part of the creative

44:20

magic between us. I would say, yeah,

44:22

and you know, Eric is a

44:25

songwriter and has been writing songs.

44:27

I also think that like, yeah, COVID

44:30

twenty twenty shutdown, that's certainly

44:33

was a factor. But also like, I feel

44:35

like I'm at a place now with like my kids are a bit older

44:37

where I'm looking ahead and I'm just kind of being like,

44:40

all right, you know who am I?

44:43

You know, I'm midlife right, midlife crisis

44:45

shit right. So it's like I'm

44:47

like, do I do I really want to say goodbye to the

44:49

part of myself that like did music for ten

44:51

years or can I find a way to

44:54

incorporate that part of myself into

44:56

my life now? So when

44:58

Eric came to me and being like I wrote

45:00

all these songs, I want to do it and I think it could

45:02

be a talance record, but you would have to be involved,

45:05

I was like, all right, let's talk about what that means and let me

45:07

see how how I can get involved in a

45:09

way that makes sense. And I'm now at this

45:11

place where I'm like, I think Tannlines is this like

45:14

evolving project. I keep kind of describing

45:17

it as like those documentaries,

45:19

those films like seven up, fourteen

45:21

up, Yeah, which I've seen none of them.

45:24

You understand the conception.

45:26

I understand them conceptually, where it's just like,

45:29

oh, yeah, like we did a kids record

45:31

when we were on quote unquote paternity leave,

45:33

and now it's like we're in this remote era

45:35

where like Eric's in the country and he's

45:38

writing songs and I'm coming up there to help him finish

45:40

them. I'm like, I would love it if we just found

45:42

a way to keep doing this

45:45

in the forms that our lives

45:47

have taken on.

45:59

The idea that you could go away from it and come back

46:01

to it is interesting to me. It's not easy.

46:04

I mean, it's it's you don't just come back to where you

46:06

left off, you know, right, and so

46:08

so one of the things that's been really interesting

46:11

about this is coming

46:13

back after being away for so long and not

46:16

you know, not seeing how much the

46:18

business has changed, which is like a

46:20

thing people say or whatever, but

46:24

you know how hard it is to

46:27

reconnect with people you once were easy

46:29

to reach, Right, you know their

46:31

lives have changed too, Right, They've

46:33

had families, and they've they don't go to

46:35

shows anymore, and so

46:37

so re just rediscovering

46:40

that or discovering that it's been really interesting

46:43

and.

46:44

Also presented challenges too, just

46:47

to piggyback on the stuff that you guys are saying

46:49

right now, like there is a and I feel

46:51

like, Eric, well you played me demos of some of this

46:53

music, and I

46:55

feel like I don't know if I ever you ever really

46:57

answered my question, but like I felt like

46:59

there was a component and maybe this brings us full

47:01

circle in some way of some of these songs

47:03

where like I feel like you're winking

47:09

at things, You're you're

47:11

not joking, not joking, but having

47:13

fun with things with like foreign like song forms

47:16

in a way that feels like liberated from

47:20

not not that earlier tan Line stuff felt

47:22

like bottled up. But

47:25

to me, there's songs on the record where I'm like

47:27

Eric's like there's like

47:29

like Burns effect.

47:31

You should hear a song, you should hear some of the ones that didn't

47:33

make the help with.

47:34

Right, but like that is a song like I take

47:36

it very I take it seriously as a song, but there's also an

47:38

element of it and this is maybe this is maybe

47:40

this is flood dystantery, but this is the undercurrent

47:43

of of no pun intended to flood

47:45

Distaria or whatever we did in our basement, where

47:47

it's like taking something very

47:50

seriously that has

47:53

an element of I think play.

47:56

I think it is. Yes, I think it's a way

47:58

to describe what you're getting at I think there. I

48:00

think on that song in particular, and in some other

48:02

parts of this album, Eric, and I'm

48:04

sorry to speak for you, but like it

48:07

is like playing a little

48:09

bit more than we had in

48:11

the past, than talents had in the

48:13

past. And I think that's an interesting and

48:17

I think a little like inspiring shift

48:20

to see like at a we think of

48:22

like play as being a childhood, childhood

48:24

thing, right and you know you stop

48:26

playing, you know. But I also think

48:28

that there's a version of aging

48:31

growing, getting a certain kind of confidence

48:34

and security to be able to play

48:36

around in that I saw on this album

48:38

that I hadn't really seen from Eric in the past.

48:40

I would agree, Yeah, I don't want to and I

48:42

don't want to get too personal, but I will say this, like, you

48:45

know, I'm in therapy, like any good you

48:47

know, a person of my age is and

48:49

should be.

48:51

But I talked to I've been.

48:52

Talking a lot about about play this play

48:54

thing, and Eric, I don't want to, you know, talk too much about

48:56

although I did talk about our childhood on one of these episodes

48:59

like a while ago, where I went through my entire history

49:01

of how I ended up doing what I'm doing. And

49:03

I think that like we actually didn't

49:06

have in many ways, like when we were kids,

49:08

we did not have like as much opportunity

49:10

to play as like we probably should have,

49:12

because there was a lot of really weird shit going

49:14

on, like a lot of really hard stuff like not

49:17

going to school and and dealing

49:19

with that like as as a thing in our

49:21

lives.

49:22

I thought you just stayed home and played. No

49:24

no, no.

49:25

No, But I think, but I think at a time when

49:27

there is like natural play, there was a lot of stuff

49:29

going on that is like actually very really stressful

49:31

and really like kind of like a lot of mental

49:33

overhead that I don't I haven't

49:35

thought that much about ever. And then

49:38

you know, now I'm like, well, why do I do certain things

49:40

that I do or why do I feel certain ways that I feel? And it's

49:42

like, oh, maybe there's like a chunk of me that

49:44

needed to get that out somewhere else. And

49:46

I think music is one of those

49:48

places I think, like the stuff I make is

49:50

for me personally. I mean, it is one of those places where

49:54

it's like there's some element of like create

49:57

creativeness that feels like unbridled,

49:59

like untethered, and I

50:02

think, like, yeah, I think like this record

50:04

it's interesting to me because I hear that in the

50:06

music. And again

50:09

I might be projecting or reading too much into it about

50:11

our like you know, history, but I will

50:13

say this

50:15

idea of play and

50:18

of like doing something loose and like not taking

50:21

it too seriously and that leading

50:23

to like really interesting art is just

50:26

generally interesting to me, but also like an

50:28

exciting but like I think it's like you guys have

50:30

found something on this record that and again

50:32

I say this with a totally biased opinion,

50:35

it's quite exciting, and uh,

50:37

thank you anyhow, Yeah.

50:39

Thank you.

50:39

That's just I don't want to end on just like compliment, but.

50:43

I'd love to.

50:46

I think what it returns to, very briefly, though,

50:48

is is your idea

50:51

of what's fun and what isn't right playing?

50:54

Why do we play? This is fun? Right?

50:57

So you should play and

50:59

you should have fun all the way till you

51:01

can't anymore, right, right, and

51:04

find ways always too,

51:06

and if you're lucky enough, maybe you can make it your job.

51:09

But then that's when it stops traditionally being

51:12

correct. Yeah, that's the that's

51:14

the challenge.

51:15

And maybe having that period of where your

51:17

job was something totally different allows

51:19

you to go back to it as play. I mean, that's the thing

51:21

that's interesting to me, and that is what I hear on the

51:23

record. In a lot of places, I'm.

51:25

Really inspired by, like

51:29

the later albums

51:31

of some like legacy artists when

51:33

they were like in middle age. I know it's something Eric

51:36

has talked talks a lot about, but like

51:38

that sort of freedom that happens when it's

51:40

like the Rolling Stones working on

51:43

like Black and Blue or whatever it

51:45

was. They're like, yeah, they're forte I

51:47

know that, Like those aren't considered like stealing

51:49

steel wheels, like steel wheels, Yeah,

51:52

yes, yeah, And I'm actually not.

51:53

That's there are a lot of people who are steel In fact,

51:56

Laura and I talk about her dad is

51:58

a steel Wheels era Rolling

52:01

Stones fan, like that's when he came

52:03

to the Royd Stones, and there's a lot

52:05

of people like this fun is some good shit

52:07

in there.

52:09

I just think it's like an interesting perspective,

52:12

like looking back having done

52:14

a whole career and then like still doing it

52:16

and looking back, it's a pretty like

52:19

privileged position because a lot most people don't

52:21

get those chances right right. So

52:24

I think that like there like are

52:26

little indie, you

52:29

know, small version of

52:31

that is like an interesting thread in

52:33

this album and something i'd love to like keep

52:35

keep pulling at.

52:37

Well. I hope that you too listen.

52:38

I know that we gotta we get a wrap

52:40

of That's a very NPR like closing

52:44

for me.

52:46

I do want to say one thing though, before we go.

52:48

I want to say one thing.

52:49

I turn the air conditioning on in here,

52:51

and I turned my camera back on, and I do believe

52:53

that the air blowing on it has

52:55

cooled it down enough to allow me to continue doing

52:58

a video here. So turns out

53:00

out that just put a fan on it, no

53:02

matter what it is, if it over, he's just get a fan on it,

53:04

you'll be fine. I think that's my big takeaway

53:06

from this conversation. Give

53:09

it a chance to cool down, Give it a little chance to cool

53:11

down.

53:11

Yeah, they brought out was it a I can't remember it was a

53:13

box fan or an oscillating fan.

53:15

No, it was like it was like a

53:18

felt like construction equipment.

53:21

Oh maybe it was one of those steel

53:23

like floor fans or something. Propped

53:25

it up on a morn.

53:26

I'm trying to bring this to a more philosophical place,

53:29

Kyles, Can you stop talking about the fan. I'm saying,

53:31

like a lot of great things, like your computer

53:34

that shut down from overheating, you give it a little time,

53:36

give a little space, put a fan on it, let it

53:38

cool down, and people say, you know what, people say,

53:41

that was a great show. All

53:44

right, let's wrap it up. Okay, great, listen.

53:46

I know we could talk for many hours, and

53:49

in fact we have and we will. I

53:51

know this for a fact, because we'll

53:53

never be able to escape each other. I mean there's definitely

53:55

some stuff you know we didn't touch on. Wow,

53:58

really, but

54:00

no, I just think.

54:01

That, like, I don't know how much you

54:03

prepare for these conversations, almost

54:06

not at all. I think you should spike

54:08

your interviews with like like

54:11

one or two Nard War type zingers that just

54:13

are far out of left field because.

54:15

You because you're my fucking brother. I mean, there's all kinds

54:17

of ship I could us. I think the flood of dysentery

54:20

was pretty nardy one.

54:21

That's pretty good.

54:22

That's pretty good. That's pretty good.

54:23

I think we got I think we got into some pretty deep cuts

54:25

on this one.

54:26

Actually.

54:26

Like the fact that scott Iella was mentioned at all,

54:28

I think is a big I got.

54:30

Is he related to the Iyello's pizza family.

54:33

I don't think so.

54:33

No, No, I don't think so. I think it's a common Italian

54:36

last name.

54:36

I think. And yeah, but in Pittsburgh there's

54:38

the the Neighborhood pizza

54:40

shop.

54:41

No, scott Iella was famous for, but getting

54:43

the getting going into Dary Creator where it was and

54:45

ordering a cone and then smashed into his face immediately.

54:49

I think it was actually Dairy Queen. I think I

54:51

couldn't remember if that was Scott or not, right,

54:53

but I think Scott was always Scott

54:56

was a guy who was like always like he put something down

54:58

his pants or whatever. He'd be like, you know, put the like

55:00

it pour this entire punch bowl down my pants

55:02

or something.

55:03

It's very jackass.

55:04

My recollection of that era of your Friends was

55:06

there are like a lot of jackass style shenanigans

55:08

going on, and that's really like the era that

55:11

that turned into the Jackass era.

55:12

That era was kind of like that.

55:14

Yeah, they were like, how do I be terrible

55:16

at skateboarding but still make content?

55:21

Well?

55:21

I think they.

55:21

I think they paid the road for a lot of YouTubers,

55:24

you know, and you know this, they set

55:26

the stage for a lot of mister beasts.

55:28

That's future president, mister Beast to

55:30

you, President Beast.

55:34

All right, well, hey listen, guys, this is great.

55:36

We gotta do it again sometime. Thanks Josh,

55:39

I love being here, Thanks for having us,

55:41

Thank you.

55:50

Well, that is our show for this week. I

55:53

have to say, you

55:56

know, a flood of dysentery. I haven't

55:58

thought about it. For such

56:01

a stupid name, so like teen boy,

56:04

just such a teen boy name, trying

56:06

to shock people with something stupid

56:09

and gross, very garbage pale kids,

56:12

real garbage pale kids situation going

56:14

on with that naming. That conversation

56:16

really took me back, boy.

56:18

I mean, I'd love to get my hands on some recordings

56:20

of flood of dysenteria. I mean, that has

56:23

got to be some pretty heinous

56:25

stuff. Anyhow, all right,

56:27

we should wrap up. We've gone on far too long, or

56:29

maybe not long enough.

56:31

No, probably too long Anyhow, that is

56:33

our show for this week.

56:34

We'll be back next week with more what future,

56:37

and as always, I wish you and your family the

56:39

very best.