0:05

Hello, and

0:05

welcome to What Monkeys Do. My

0:08

name is Morten Kamp Andersen.

0:08

And this is a podcast about what

0:11

it takes to make a change and

0:11

make it stick.

0:20

So this podcast is about change,

0:20

and it's called What Monkeys Do.

0:25

And the name reflects that a lot

0:25

of our psychology is best

0:29

understood by understanding how

0:29

we as a species has evolved over

0:34

millions of years. There are

0:34

things that we cannot change, or

0:39

at least are harder for us to

0:39

change. And only by

0:42

understanding what we can and

0:42

what we cannot change, can we

0:46

select the best strategies to

0:46

make a change. The area within

0:51

psychology, which focus on this

0:51

is called evolutionary

0:54

psychology. evolutionary

0:54

psychologists attempt to explain

0:58

common human behaviors from

0:58

selection pressures in our

1:02

environment, you know, like

1:02

Darwin. I remember when I was

1:06

hooked on evolutionary

1:06

psychology, it was when I was a

1:10

psychology student, my professor

1:10

in personality psychology was

1:14

replicating a very famous study,

1:14

he used a couple of students to

1:18

ask strangers three questions.

1:18

The female students were asked

1:23

to go up to random men in the

1:23

street and ask them three

1:27

A, would they

1:27

consider going on a date with

1:31

Would they consider to

1:31

go home to her flat and C:,

1:37

would they consider having sex

1:37

with her? The male students were

1:40

asked where to ask random female

1:40

in the streets the same

1:44

questions. Now, it probably

1:44

comes to no surprise to you the

1:48

listener that there were

1:48

significant differences in the

1:52

replies from the men and the

1:52

women. 0% of the women asked

1:57

said yes to having sex with the

1:57

man who asked, whereas about 70%

2:01

of the men said yes to having

2:01

sex with a woman who asked, and

2:06

this study has been replicated

2:06

all over the world over many

2:10

years with the same results. My

2:10

guest today can explain why we

2:15

found such a big difference. He

2:15

is a professor of psychology at

2:20

the University of Texas at

2:20

Austin. He is a true rockstar in

2:23

psychology, he often appears on

2:23

top 50 lists of most influential

2:28

psychologists ever to live. His

2:28

primary interest include the

2:33

evolutionary psychology of human

2:33

mating strategies, so conflict

2:38

between sexes, the evolution of

2:38

emotion of jealousy, etc. He has

2:44

authored or co authored more

2:44

than 200 peer reviewed journal

2:48

articles, he's written many

2:48

books, it's hard to name the

2:52

best of those many books, but I

2:52

will encourage everybody to read

2:55

the Evolution of Desire. Welcome

2:55

to you, David Buss,

3:00

thank you as to why

3:00

I'm delighted to be here talking

3:03

to you.

3:03

Fantastic. I am

3:03

truly excited about this. So in

3:07

this episode, we'll talk about

3:07

differences and conflicts

3:12

between sexes, and about how

3:12

evolutionary psychology can

3:16

explain this and how we can use

3:16

this maybe even to make our

3:20

relationship better. But first,

3:20

can you tell us a little bit

3:24

about what evolutionary

3:24

psychology is and why you have

3:28

dedicated your life to this

3:28

field?

3:30

Yes, evolutionary

3:30

psychology is simply psychology,

3:35

looked at through the lens is

3:35

the evolutionary theory. That

3:38

is, our psychology is housed in

3:38

our brain and to some degree in

3:42

our body and our endocrine

3:42

system. And these are organs

3:45

that evolved through natural and

3:45

sexual selection. Understanding

3:50

the causal origins of our

3:50

psychology can inform us about

3:56

the nature of that psychology.

3:56

Importantly, evolutionary

3:59

psychology asks a critical

3:59

question that most psychologists

4:04

tend not to ask or haven't

4:04

historically, and that is, what

4:07

is the function of our

4:07

psychological mechanisms,

4:11

whatever those mechanisms are,

4:11

that is, what are they designed

4:15

to do? And you can think about

4:15

two large classes of problems.

4:20

One is survival problems, and

4:20

one is mating more reproductive

4:24

problems. And Darwin originally

4:24

focused on survival problems,

4:28

how do you combat predators? How

4:28

do you get food? How do you deal

4:33

with parasites and those issues

4:33

of survival? What I focused on

4:38

and what I've been drawn to is

4:38

me human mating, which deals

4:41

more with the reproduction or

4:41

differential reproduction. And

4:46

this was discovered by Darwin in

4:46

the pub first post 1871. So 12

4:52

years after his classic on the

4:52

origin of species, and it turned

4:56

out to be a monumentally

4:56

important discovery. The theory

4:59

of sexual selection, ignored by

4:59

biologists at the time for

5:04

roughly 100 years, but now it's

5:04

become one of the most important

5:08

theories in the field of

5:08

psychology. It deals just in a

5:12

nutshell with not differential

5:12

survival, but differential

5:17

mating success or differential

5:17

reproduction. And the two causal

5:21

processes there are. One is male

5:21

competition. The idea that males

5:27

often compete we now know

5:27

females do as well, but males

5:30

often compete with each other in

5:30

physical contests, and the

5:34

victor, gains sexual access to

5:34

the female loser handles off

5:38

with a broken antler and

5:38

dejected and with low self

5:41

esteem. The logic is that

5:41

whatever qualities lead to

5:45

success in the same sex battles,

5:45

those qualities get passed on in

5:49

greater numbers due to the

5:49

preferential meeting access

5:53

sexual access to the victors

5:53

game, and then the second

5:56

component, so in other words, a

5:56

difference or reproductive

5:59

success is achieved through same

5:59

sex combat. The second is

6:04

preferential mate choice. That

6:04

is, if members of one sex have

6:08

some agreement about what

6:08

qualities they desire, in the

6:12

opposite sex, those who possess

6:12

the desirable qualities are

6:15

preferentially chosen. Those

6:15

lacking the desired qualities

6:19

are ignored, banish, shunned, or

6:19

become in the modern lingo,

6:23

insults, involuntary celibates.

6:23

And so the logic there is that

6:30

quality heritable qualities that

6:30

are preferentially chosen, if

6:34

there's some agreement, those

6:34

increase in frequency over time,

6:38

and so you get evolution, which

6:38

is simply change over time. As a

6:42

consequence of preferential mate

6:42

choice.

6:44

This theory of

6:44

sexual selection is monumentally

6:47

important, and is the

6:47

overarching theoretical

6:50

framework for understanding the

6:50

mating systems of all sexually

6:53

reproducing species, including

6:53

humans. So the idea is that the

6:58

theory of sexual selection

6:58

proposed by Darwin explains a

7:03

lot of the differences that

7:03

there are between male and

7:05

female. And that also explains

7:05

differences in psychology

7:10

between the male and the female.

7:10

So different psychologies come

7:14

from this are emotions, such as

7:14

jealousy and other emotions come

7:19

from, from this theory of sexual

7:19

selection? Is that correct?

7:24

Yeah, that is

7:24

correct. So sexual selection

7:27

explains the vast majority of

7:27

sex differences. And I think

7:31

it's important for your

7:31

listeners to understand the

7:35

evolutionary meta theory of sex

7:35

differences and sexual

7:38

similarity. So it's not the case

7:38

that men are from Mars and women

7:42

are from Venus says that cliche

7:42

goes, the meta theory is that we

7:46

expect men and women to be the

7:46

same or similar in all domains,

7:51

where they faced the same or

7:51

similar adaptive challenges over

7:55

human evolutionary history, both

7:55

sexes have to eat both sexes

7:58

have to fend off predators, both

7:58

sexes have to deal with

8:01

parasites, but it's only in

8:01

those domains where the sexes

8:05

have faced different adaptive

8:05

challenges that we expect to see

8:08

sex differences. And so it's not

8:08

a theory of the two sexes are

8:12

from different planets for him.

8:12

never the twain shall me, there

8:16

are a lot of overlap, but there

8:16

are some key differences. And as

8:20

it happens, almost all the key

8:20

differences fall in the domain

8:23

of mating, and things related to

8:23

make.

8:26

Okay, and we're

8:26

probably going to focus more on

8:29

the sex differences also,

8:29

because we are going to focus on

8:32

why it is that men tend to do

8:32

more harm to women from from the

8:37

sexual conflicts that arise. But

8:37

just to be clear to the

8:40

listener, we're going to talk

8:40

about sex differences, but there

8:44

is also something called gender

8:44

differences. Can you maybe

8:46

explain a little bit about the

8:46

difference between sex and

8:49

gender and how you use those

8:49

terminologies.

8:52

In the literature,

8:52

the two terms are often used

8:54

interchangeably. And so there's

8:54

a lot of confusion about it. And

8:58

then some people have argued

8:58

that there's no such thing as

9:02

biological sex itself, which, of

9:02

course, is an absurd perspective

9:07

from I mean, we know that there

9:07

were two sexes sexual

9:10

reproduction evolved

9:10

approximately 1.3 billion years

9:14

ago. And so it's a very ancient

9:14

system and the sexes are defined

9:20

not by you know, pulling down

9:20

the pants and looking at the

9:23

genitals, but rather they're

9:23

defined by the size of the sex

9:25

cells. So as the females are the

9:25

ones with the large, nutrient

9:29

rich sex sells gametes, males

9:29

are the ones with a small

9:34

nutrient poor gametes. And these

9:34

are basically little packets of

9:38

DNA with an outboard motor

9:38

attached designed to get to the

9:42

A. And so when I talk about sex

9:42

differences, what I'm talking

9:46

about is differences between

9:46

male biological males and

9:49

biological females. Now, gender

9:49

is more often used to refer to

9:54

things like gender identity or

9:54

gender orientation, or Gender

10:00

proclivities and there, there's,

10:00

there's a whole rainbow of

10:04

sexual identities and

10:04

orientations and getting more

10:08

and more so everyday. And

10:08

that's, that's perfectly fine.

10:11

But from an

10:11

evolutionary perspective, when I

10:13

talk about sex differences, I'm

10:13

referring to biological sex

10:17

differences. Obviously, at the

10:17

moment, there is sort of a

10:20

redefinition of gender and

10:20

gender is is something that is

10:23

talked a lot about, and especially at American universities, as well. Does that

10:25

has that impacted evolutionary

10:29

psychology at all? Has that

10:29

created issues with how you can

10:34

work with this or talk about this?

10:36

No, we are, it

10:36

hasn't affected the research,

10:39

you know, the research, it's

10:39

been an extraordinarily

10:42

productive research program,

10:42

applying Darwin's theory of

10:46

sexual selection, and also, that

10:46

we'll talk about later, maybe a

10:50

sexual conflict theory to human

10:50

the understanding of human

10:54

psychology and behavior, an

10:54

extraordinarily productive and

10:57

said nothing has changed. In

10:57

terms of the research program,

11:00

new discoveries are being made

11:00

every day, using this paradigm,

11:05

the way it's affected, I guess

11:05

it's affected the way that some

11:09

people talk about it, it's

11:09

talked about a lot more. And

11:13

then I get students, some

11:13

students in my class who say,

11:17

well, another professor has told

11:17

them that there's no such thing

11:20

as sex, you know, and so I have

11:20

to do some correcting of the

11:25

scientific understandings of

11:25

these things. And, you know, and

11:28

I think that there's just a lot

11:28

of confusion out there around

11:32

around these terms. And that's

11:32

why I try to just stay clear on

11:36

what I'm focusing on is average

11:36

on average differences between

11:40

males and females as defined by

11:40

biologists.

11:44

Okay, so there

11:44

are so many interesting angles

11:47

to this, and in this episode

11:47

will try to talk about and use

11:51

evolutionary psychology to

11:51

understand the conflict of sexes

11:56

to understand how we can have a

11:56

healthy relationship without

11:59

having harassing situations. But

11:59

first, let's try to understand

12:03

why there is a conflict between

12:03

the sexes. But you're in your

12:08

book, you say that a starting

12:08

point for understanding sexual

12:11

conflict is the realization that

12:11

there exists a battle over

12:16

women's bodies. What do you mean

12:16

by that?

12:19

Yes, well, so this

12:19

basically boils down to the fact

12:23

that women are the more

12:23

reproductively valuable sex. And

12:28

this starts with the sperm and

12:28

the egg. So at the from the very

12:32

moment of conception, female is

12:32

contributing a very large,

12:36

nutrient rich egg and the males

12:36

contributing to contributing

12:39

basically, DNA. And that's

12:39

that's basically it. And so but

12:43

this minimum sex difference in

12:43

minimum investment is a critical

12:48

issue. And this was the insight

12:48

that Robert Trevor's famous

12:52

Harvard biologist, came up with

12:52

in 1972 was what drives these

12:57

two components of sexual

12:57

selection, which sex does the

13:00

choosing which sex does the

13:00

competing? And his answer was

13:04

relative parental investment, so

13:04

the sex that invests heavily or

13:09

more than the other sex becomes

13:09

the more valuable sex and when

13:13

you're the more valuable sex and

13:13

the high investing sex, what

13:17

that means is that there is a

13:17

great penalty tremendous cost

13:21

associated with making a bad

13:21

sexual choice or a bad mate

13:25

choice. But on the flip side,

13:25

great benefits to making a good

13:29

mate choice for the sex is not

13:29

investing very much good and bad

13:34

matrices don't matter so much

13:34

rather, it is access to the

13:38

valuable member to the to the

13:38

valuable other steps that is the

13:42

limiting factor for reproductive

13:42

success. And so what that means

13:47

in English is that women carry

13:47

with them because you know,

13:52

imagine, you know that we're

13:52

studying some species and the

13:55

female of the species.

13:55

fertilization occurs internally

13:59

within her, she incubates that

13:59

fetus within her body for nine

14:04

months, she feeds it metabolic

14:04

resources, even if there's a

14:10

caloric deficit, you know,

14:10

calories and minerals are

14:15

leached from the woman's body in

14:15

bonds to feed that, that fetus

14:20

for nine months, and then

14:20

subsequently lactation, the

14:23

breastfeeding, so these are

14:23

extraordinarily heavy

14:26

investments that massively don't

14:26

engage in. And so from a purely

14:31

reproductive standpoint, someone

14:31

who's willing to do all that

14:35

investing for your child, that's

14:35

hugely valuable. And so what

14:40

that means is that women have

14:40

become the limiting resource for

14:43

men and men tend to compete for

14:43

access to that limiting

14:48

resource. Now, it gets a little

14:48

bit complicated with humans

14:53

because we have, you know, I'm

14:53

speaking of just simply sex per

14:57

se, and in particular short term

14:57

maintenance strategy when you

15:01

get to long term mating

15:01

strategies, both sexes invest

15:04

heavily. And fortunately, men do

15:04

more than the male, you know,

15:08

and so, and so they invest years

15:08

and decades and in their

15:13

children and protecting their

15:13

children and providing for their

15:16

children and their families. And

15:16

when you get both sexes

15:19

investing heavily, you get both

15:19

sexes being very choosy.

15:23

Importantly, both sexes

15:23

competing with members of their

15:26

own sets for the most desirable

15:26

members of the opposite sex. So

15:31

in long term mating, both

15:31

components of sexual selection,

15:35

or for both sexes,

15:36

yes, women tend

15:36

to invest more, and therefore

15:41

they are more valuable. That

15:41

means that they do more the

15:43

choosing, men do the more

15:43

they're competing for women.

15:47

There are also many other

15:47

differences. Men are fertile for

15:50

many more years than then women

15:50

are, and so on. And that leads

15:54

to a number of sexual conflicts.

15:54

And you have, you have

15:59

highlighted six sexual

15:59

conflicts, and I just want to go

16:03

through them and also maybe talk

16:03

about some examples from some of

16:06

your your studies of how those

16:06

differences actually play out.

16:10

So let's just go through them

16:10

and see how those sexual

16:13

conflicts look. So the first one

16:13

you talk about is called a

16:17

desire for sexual variety. How

16:17

is that a conflict,

16:22

desire for sexual

16:22

variety needs that manifests

16:26

itself in many ways, but men

16:26

tend to desire a wider variety

16:31

of partners, sex partners, than

16:31

women on average, there's

16:35

overlap in the distributions,

16:35

but on average, they do. And

16:38

this shows up and things like,

16:38

how many partners Would you like

16:41

to have how many sex partners

16:41

just like that over the next

16:43

year, or 10 years, man and many

16:43

more than women, but it shows up

16:48

in sexual fantasies, you know,

16:48

with how many different partners

16:52

do you have sexual fantasies

16:52

about or even in the course of a

16:55

single sexual fantasy episode,

16:55

men tend to do more partner

16:59

switching during the course of a

16:59

fantasy episode. It also shows

17:03

up in men tending to let less

17:03

time elapse before seeking or

17:08

initiating a sexual encounter

17:08

than women, women tend to need

17:12

more information about the guy.

17:12

And that's why that strangers

17:16

study that you mentioned, women

17:16

tend to say no. Would you have

17:20

sex with me? They said, No, I

17:20

need a little more information.

17:24

Men, they all the information is

17:24

right there available to them in

17:28

its physical appearance.

17:30

Yes. In one of

17:30

the studies that you suggested

17:33

was that if you ask on average,

17:33

women, how many sex partners

17:37

would you ideally like to have

17:37

over a lifetime, they would say

17:41

something between four to five,

17:41

whereas for men, that number is

17:44

around 18. So men simply are

17:44

looking for more sexual partners

17:50

over a lifetime, then, then a

17:50

women woman is

17:53

yes, ideally. And so

17:53

this is, and this will relate to

17:57

when we get back to the issues

17:57

of relationships, there's a

18:00

desire, and that's why I call my

18:00

book the evolution of desire, my

18:04

first book, but then there's

18:04

also it's the expression of

18:08

desire in behavior, have these

18:08

desires, they often suppress the

18:13

desire it let's say they're in a

18:13

long term committed

18:16

relationship, and they don't

18:16

want to jeopardize the

18:18

relationship. They don't want to

18:18

incur reputational damage, or

18:22

their religion or their code of

18:22

morality prevents them from

18:27

doing so. Of course, not always.

18:27

But that's why evolutionary

18:31

psychologists make a key

18:31

distinction between the

18:33

underlying psychological

18:33

mechanisms and their expression

18:36

and behavior. So just a quick

18:36

analogy would be people have a

18:40

desire for foods that are rich

18:40

in sugar, fat, salt, and

18:44

protein. But let's say we have

18:44

we want to get fit, we want to

18:48

lose some weight, we might

18:48

choose not to express those

18:51

desires in our eating behavior

18:51

for a period of time. So it's a

18:55

lot easier to prevent the

18:55

expression of desire, it's a lot

18:59

more difficult to change that

18:59

underlying desire.

19:02

Yes, okay. The

19:02

second sexual conflict is sexual

19:06

over perception bias. Can you

19:06

tell us what that is? Yes, this

19:10

is this is a, an

19:10

amusing one, but an important

19:14

one. And I think one key cause

19:14

of sexual conflict. So typical

19:18

scenarios a woman encounters a

19:18

man and the woman smiles at the

19:22

man and men infer sexual

19:22

interest. She's trying to be

19:26

seductive. She's trying to flirt

19:26

with me. And women will often

19:30

say No, I was just being I was

19:30

just being friendly, or I was

19:33

being polite. And so men tend to

19:33

over infer sexual interest when

19:38

it's not there. And we think

19:38

this is it's a bias, but it's an

19:41

adaptive bias in the sense that

19:41

over evolutionary time missing

19:47

out on sexual opportunities

19:47

would have been very, very

19:50

costly for men in the currency

19:50

of reproduction, reproductive

19:54

success, and so men have this

19:54

bias to you know, basically

19:59

widen the search net and in for

19:59

sexual interest when it's not

20:04

there, in part because that

20:04

gives if they perceive that

20:08

they're getting sexual signals

20:08

that gives them the confidence

20:11

to approach the woman and

20:11

sometimes they can convert and

20:15

initially uninterested women

20:15

into an interested one

20:19

So big because

20:19

it's the woman, it's the female

20:23

that is choosing the male better

20:23

be ready when she's choosing so

20:27

therefore having an over

20:27

perception bias may actually

20:32

help him be ready when she's

20:32

choosing is that is that how the

20:36

analogy goes? Yeah, that's

20:38

Yeah, that's one

20:38

component and and I think

20:41

another component is simply, you

20:41

know, base rates if men are

20:44

widening the pool. And let's say

20:44

that they get turned down by

20:49

let's say their sexual

20:49

perception bias causes them to

20:52

try to initiate an encounter 100

20:52

times while they may get shot

20:56

down many times, but maybe

20:56

they'll get a few hits. And

21:00

that's basically what we see

21:00

played out on dating apps like

21:03

Tinder in the modern environment

21:03

where men, you know, swipe right

21:07

on hundreds and hundreds of

21:07

women, and in the hopes that

21:10

they'll get they'll get a few

21:10

that say, yes, women are much,

21:13

much more selective, including

21:13

sites like Tinder.

21:16

Yeah, I think I

21:16

think your research using Tinder

21:18

is just excellent, because there

21:18

you can really see behavior how

21:22

that is played out on, you know,

21:22

on a market, which is very

21:25

related to, you know, sexual

21:25

attraction, essentially. And

21:29

here, you say, well, men just

21:29

swipe right, a lot more than

21:32

female do, which which explains

21:32

maybe some of the sexual

21:36

perception bias.

21:37

Yeah, or it's an

21:37

expression. So is it an

21:40

expression of the desire for

21:40

sexual variety?

21:43

Yes, six

21:43

different sexual conflicts. The

21:47

first one desire for sexual

21:47

variety, men simply want more

21:50

sexual partners than women. The

21:50

second one is sexual over

21:53

perception bias. Men are quicker

21:53

to infer sexual signs compared

21:59

to female. The third one is

21:59

deception. What is that?

22:03

Yeah, well, both

22:03

sexes deceive on the mating

22:07

market. Our research has found

22:07

that they deceive in somewhat

22:10

different ways. So men are more

22:10

likely, when they're pursuing a

22:14

short term mating strategy,

22:14

they're more likely to express

22:18

deeper feelings for the woman

22:18

than they actually have. I feel

22:23

this true emotional attachment

22:23

to feel true love I, I feel a

22:28

depth I feel like we under your

22:28

soulmate, they're more likely to

22:31

exaggerate, basically finding a

22:31

long term mating strategy. And

22:35

these words, in order to pursue

22:35

a short term mating strategy,

22:39

women sometimes to see in the

22:39

opposite way, sometimes they are

22:43

making mark or pretend that

22:43

they're okay with casual sex,

22:47

but then try to convert the man

22:47

into a long term relationship.

22:50

So one example of this is

22:50

studies of of hookups on college

22:54

campuses, where they asked men

22:54

and women are what is your ideal

22:58

outcome of a hookup? And women

22:58

say, Well, my ideal outcome

23:02

would be that it leads to a

23:02

relationship. And men are more

23:05

likely to say, Oh, I hope that

23:05

this hookup leads to more

23:08

hookups with more or less so so

23:08

the sex difference plays out in

23:13

that way.

23:14

And you have

23:14

also looked at at Tinder and

23:17

what it is that people lie about

23:17

in their profile, which is also

23:21

different between the two sexes?

23:23

Yes, there's a whole hundreds of

23:24

researchers have collected on

23:27

this site, survey many of them

23:27

in my books, but men tend to lie

23:32

about their height. So how tall

23:32

they are, they tend to add a

23:37

couple of inches. So American

23:37

system that's their five feet,

23:41

10 inches, they round up to six

23:41

feet, they lie about their

23:45

income. And then they lie about

23:45

what their mating strategy is.

23:49

They pretend that they're more interested in the long term mating strategy. And then they

23:51

may be sincere requires only I'm

23:56

interested in, you know, a real

23:56

connection. Women tend to

24:00

deceive about their weight. So

24:00

they tend to shave off about 15

24:05

pounds, or I don't know what

24:05

that translates into, I guess,

24:08

six or seven kilos. And and then

24:08

both sexes deceive about

24:12

appearance in the sense of

24:12

posting either old photos or

24:16

photoshopped photos that are not

24:16

truly representative what they

24:20

actually

24:21

look like. So

24:21

we should meet people before we

24:24

have we engage with people.

24:26

Absolutely, that's,

24:26

that's my number one

24:28

recommendation, you know, cut

24:28

off the, you know, the internet

24:31

communication, you have to meet

24:31

someone. And even to determine

24:35

whether there's any of your

24:35

chemistry there, you have to

24:37

meet the person in person.

24:39

So that was

24:39

three of the six sexual

24:41

conflicts. And essentially, what

24:41

we're saying is that these are

24:44

differences in how men and women

24:44

approach the other partner and

24:49

in in order to find a mate, and

24:49

these are from deep evolutionary

24:55

reasons why there are these

24:55

differences but because there

24:58

are the these differences It

24:58

leads to conflicts. Let's look

25:02

at the last three, and then

25:02

we'll find out what does that do

25:04

to us in terms of how do we live

25:04

well together? So the fourth one

25:09

is mate value, discrepancies,

25:09

mate value. What is that?

25:14

I think there are

25:14

analogs in European countries

25:18

and Americans use this crude 10

25:18

point scale, where the person's

25:22

at 10, if they're paying a

25:22

value, or an eight, or a six, or

25:26

a two or a one, the problem is

25:26

that if a person is assessed in

25:31

mate value, and they're

25:31

attracted to in a, while the

25:34

eights not going to be attracted

25:34

to them, or if the six manages

25:38

to convince the eight that

25:38

they're an eight, temporarily,

25:43

the eight is more likely to

25:43

cheat on the six, and the eight

25:46

is more likely to dump the six

25:46

to leave that relationship. For

25:50

someone who's more comparable

25:50

and mate value. The problem is

25:54

that men tend to overestimate

25:54

their mate value on average. And

26:00

so you get a lot of men who are

26:00

sixes but thinks that they're

26:02

eights. And that leads them to

26:02

not waste a conflict, they

26:06

approach a woman who they think

26:06

is within their mate value

26:09

range. And the woman says, No,

26:09

you're not, you're not, you're

26:11

not good enough for me. And so

26:11

and so that can generate

26:14

resentment, sometimes hostility

26:14

toward women. Now, not all men

26:19

do this. So men who are high on

26:19

the personality trait of

26:22

narcissism, tend to think

26:22

they're hotter than they are,

26:26

they think they're hot, but

26:26

they're not. So not all men

26:30

overestimate their mate value,

26:30

but there's a sex difference,

26:33

there were men, on average,

26:33

think they're higher than they

26:36

are.

26:37

So obviously,

26:37

by this theory, or this part of

26:41

the theory, what you're saying

26:41

is that if you're an eight, find

26:44

somebody who's an eight, because

26:44

if you're finding somebody on a

26:47

10, you might let that person

26:47

in, but that is likely to lead

26:50

to that person leaving you at

26:50

some point that is a higher

26:54

likelihood of divorce, if there

26:54

is a big of a range between and

26:58

don't go for a six, because you

26:58

might feel in your relationship

27:01

that you could have done better.

27:01

So find somebody at your level,

27:04

essentially.

27:05

Yeah, absolutely.

27:05

It's, it's one of the one of the

27:08

laws of mating, you know, find

27:08

someone that the equivalent to

27:11

mate value, that's going to lead

27:11

to more happiness and longevity

27:15

in the long run. Although it's

27:15

also true that mate value

27:18

changes over time. It's never

27:18

it's not a static quality. And

27:21

so someone could get a job

27:21

promotion or become a famous

27:25

musician, or lose a job or

27:25

become a drug addict or

27:30

alcoholic or so. So there are

27:30

changes over time. So what you

27:34

really want is someone who's on

27:34

the same mate valuetrajectory,

27:38

that you are not someone who's

27:38

exactly like you are at that

27:42

moment. So for long for the goal

27:42

of long term happy

27:45

relationships.

27:46

Yes. So that

27:46

was the fourth sexual conflict.

27:50

The fifth one is infidelity.

27:50

What is that about?

27:54

You know, people

27:54

when they get married or or

27:57

engaged in a presumptively

27:57

monogamous relationship, they

28:02

commit their sexual resources to

28:02

one partner, and people cheat

28:06

sometimes not everybody. But you

28:06

know, it's nothing like 25% of

28:10

women and maybe 40 to 50% of men

28:10

at some point, there's a bit of

28:15

a sex difference, a non trivial

28:15

sex difference on my head. In

28:19

evolutionary terms, this is the

28:19

diversion of reproductively

28:22

relevant resources, someone

28:22

outside of the partnership. And

28:27

it's extremely costly. Man from

28:27

an evolutionary perspective

28:31

risks. Getting genetically

28:31

coupled with that is taking risk

28:35

investing in a child who is not

28:35

their child, it might be that

28:39

the mailman or the neighbor's

28:39

women from women's perspective,

28:43

if their partner is unfaithful,

28:43

she risks losing the man's

28:47

investment, commitment, time,

28:47

attention, resources, all of

28:51

which could be channeled to a

28:51

rival woman, and her offspring.

28:55

And so infidelity is it's one of

28:55

the leading, it's one of the two

28:59

leading causes of divorce

28:59

worldwide, people are tempted to

29:02

do it. I think they do it for

29:02

somewhat different reasons. And

29:06

the sites for this and in my

29:06

book, as well, that men tend to

29:10

cheat on average for to satisfy

29:10

desire for sexual variety. So

29:15

the woman who they cheat with

29:15

couldn't mine doesn't

29:18

necessarily mean anything. to

29:18

them. It's just like a desire

29:21

for sexual variety. Women tend

29:21

to tend to cheat when they're

29:25

fundamentally unhappy with the

29:25

relationship and are looking to

29:29

see if maybe they can do better

29:29

out there on the mating work. So

29:32

it's what I call the mate

29:32

switching hypothesis.

29:35

And I think

29:35

there is also something about

29:38

having a backup, maybe for the

29:38

female, which is not the same

29:42

for the male essentially.

29:43

Yes, yeah. When one

29:43

woman told me men are like suit,

29:48

you always want to have one on

29:48

the back burner.

29:50

Yes.

29:50

interesting analogy. And number

29:54

six of this sexual conflict is

29:54

breaking up. Can you tell us a

29:58

little bit about what what that is about?

30:00

Yeah, well, breakups

30:00

are, we've studied them in my

30:02

lab, they're they're very

30:02

traumatic for most people

30:06

involved, even the person who's

30:06

doing the breaking up. But often

30:10

there is an asymmetry. That is

30:10

one person wants to break up and

30:13

the other person does not. And

30:13

so that's a conflict between the

30:17

sexes. As a general rule, women

30:17

tend to do more of the breaking

30:22

up, women tend to seek divorces

30:22

more often than men. Of course,

30:27

men men do as well sometimes.

30:27

But one of the interesting

30:31

things about relationships is

30:31

that sometimes men are totally

30:35

surprised when the woman comes

30:35

and says, I want to divorce if

30:40

they don't see it coming.

30:40

Whereas women tend to be more in

30:44

tune with the rhythms of the

30:44

long term relationship, and are

30:48

more likely to anticipate when

30:48

their problems and they can see

30:52

it coming on average, although I

30:52

know some cases where I've been

30:56

totally shocked as well. Okay,

30:56

fantastic.

31:09

So far, we

31:09

talked about conflict of, of

31:11

sexes. And you have said that

31:11

this conflict is basically a

31:15

result of an evolution over

31:15

millions of years. Because of

31:20

this conflict, men does bad

31:20

things to women, women does bad

31:22

things to men, because of this

31:22

conflict. But in your book,

31:26

which is coming up next week,

31:26

you have a book coming out

31:30

calling, called When Men Behave

31:30

Badly. And in that book, you

31:34

state that even though both men

31:34

and women do bad things to each

31:38

other, the really bad things,

31:38

the really bad things are done

31:42

by men towards women. Why is

31:42

that?

31:46

Yes, both sexes

31:46

deceive each other. Both sexes

31:51

can engage in unwanted sexual

31:51

contact. But the more extreme

31:56

the behavior, the more it tends

31:56

to be committed by men. So when

31:59

you talk about sexual

31:59

harassment, yes, some women

32:03

sexually harass men, but men

32:03

tend to do it much more often.

32:07

Sexual coercion, men do it more

32:07

often rape, men do it more often

32:12

stalking. You know, men do it

32:12

more often. So criminal stalking

32:17

and that 80% men and 20% women,

32:17

and then of course, Homicide

32:24

murder, if an adult woman gets

32:24

killed, the odds are between 50

32:28

and 70%, that she is killed by

32:28

her romantic partner that is a

32:33

boyfriend or an ex boyfriend,

32:33

husband or an ex husband. And

32:38

whereas for men who get killed

32:38

by women, only 3% are the result

32:44

of a romantic partner. And so I

32:44

think that part of it is that

32:48

has to do with the some of the

32:48

things we've been talking about,

32:51

like desire for sexual variety,

32:51

that women are the more valuable

32:55

reproductive resource, and man

32:55

sometimes go to great lengths to

32:59

hold on to, or gain access to to

32:59

women. And that's partly what

33:04

sexual herassment is about is

33:04

currently what stalking is about

33:08

in a season. disturbingly,

33:08

partly what intimate partner

33:11

violence is about. That is, men

33:11

engage in violence. And this

33:16

sounds horrible, but for very

33:16

functional reasons, to try to

33:20

lower the partner self esteem,

33:20

to try to make her believe that

33:26

she is lucky to have him that

33:26

men tend to do this, engage in

33:30

intimate partner violence as a

33:30

latch last ditch effort when

33:35

they're losing the woman and

33:35

they're doing going to great

33:38

lengths to try to keep her and

33:38

with these desperate measures.

33:42

So I think it's very important

33:42

that women know this knowledge.

33:45

So the woman's odds of getting

33:45

killed, for example, by by an ex

33:52

are occur mostly within the

33:52

first three to six months after

33:55

a breakup. And sometimes, you

33:55

know, women are aware of that,

33:59

and the guy will say, Oh, boy,

33:59

you meet with me one last time

34:02

for coffee and, you know, and

34:02

then I'll leave you alone, and

34:06

then they end up dead. So, women

34:06

have to know what these danger

34:10

signs are.

34:11

And this is

34:11

obviously not trivial problems.

34:14

I mean, in your book is, you

34:14

actually state that sexual

34:18

violence against women is the

34:18

most widespread human rights

34:21

problem in the world. And also,

34:21

so one thing is the act itself,

34:26

but also what happens to the

34:26

consequences. So what happens to

34:30

the women so the consequences of

34:30

of having endured this so

34:34

depression, anxiety, eating

34:34

disorder, intention to suicide,

34:38

all of these things that is is a

34:38

consequence of these things.

34:42

Obviously, this is not a trivial

34:42

matter, this is a huge problem.

34:46

Can you explain why you think

34:46

this is is such a big problem?

34:51

Well, the the the

34:51

psychological Aftermath for

34:55

women who are victims of sexual

34:55

violence is horrible. I didn't

35:00

realize when I wrote the book,

35:00

how quite how horrible it was.

35:03

But in our studies and my review

35:03

literature, yes, exactly the

35:07

issues you point out,

35:07

depression, low self esteem,

35:11

being cut off from social

35:11

support and kin ties and

35:15

friendships and disruption,

35:15

school disruption of work life.

35:19

And I think that it because what

35:19

it is what sexual violence

35:23

against women, the key component

35:23

is that it interferes with the

35:28

number one law of female mating

35:28

strategy, which is female

35:32

choice, that is women's ability

35:32

to choose who, when, where, and

35:38

under what circumstances she has

35:38

set. And men strategies often

35:43

interfere with female choice,

35:43

when that happens, and I think

35:47

this has this has a certain long

35:47

evolutionary history. As far as

35:51

we can tell, it doesn't mean

35:51

that rape is an adaptation by

35:56

the way I talk about that issue

35:56

in great depth in my book. But

35:59

clearly women have been victims

35:59

of sexual violence for a very

36:03

long time, over evolutionary

36:03

history, and it has devastating

36:07

consequences. And the reason I

36:07

call it the most widespread

36:11

world human rights violation is

36:11

for a couple of reasons. One is

36:16

the sheer number of women who

36:16

are victims. And this occurs in

36:21

every culture, in every ethnic

36:21

group, religious group, whatever

36:25

your political orientation, so

36:25

nobody has no culture or

36:29

subculture has a monopoly. And

36:29

we're talking about 50% of the

36:33

population. And so even women

36:33

who weren't direct victims often

36:38

live in fear of becoming

36:38

victims, so curtails their

36:42

freedom of movement, their

36:42

ability to go out at night,

36:45

their ability to attend night

36:45

classes, and then secondary

36:48

victims, as they're called. So

36:48

the friends, the family members,

36:52

the brothers, sisters, of the

36:52

women who are victims, they to

36:56

become victims as well,

36:56

secondary victims. It's the most

37:00

widespread in the sense of

37:00

affecting the largest number of

37:04

people around the world.

37:06

Some of of the

37:06

of the worst of and I don't know

37:09

if we can say that, but some of

37:09

the worst offenders hit the

37:12

headlines. So we talk about

37:12

Jeffrey Epstein, Harvey

37:16

Weinstein, Bill Cosby, some of

37:16

those people, and you're

37:19

absolutely right, they're all

37:19

men. Are there any common things

37:24

when you look at those kind of

37:24

people? I mean, do they share

37:28

personality traits or anything

37:28

like that?

37:30

Yes, they do. So and

37:30

this is pretty solid, I document

37:34

this in, in my new book, that

37:34

what's called the dark triad

37:39

personality traits. And so these

37:39

are people who are high on

37:42

narcissism high on Machiavellian

37:42

ism and high on psychopathy, but

37:47

also high on pursuing a short

37:47

term mating strategy. So those

37:51

four elements when they combine,

37:51

so narcissism is feelings of

37:56

grandiosity and feelings of

37:56

entitlement, including sexual

38:00

entitlement. Machiavellian isn't

38:00

as people who adopt a an

38:03

exploitative interpersonal

38:03

strategy. So these are cheaters,

38:08

defectors exploiters, who are

38:08

just looking out for themselves,

38:12

and they don't care about

38:12

others. And then psychopathy,

38:15

one of the hallmarks is lack of

38:15

empathy. So they don't care

38:19

about the victims. They don't

38:19

care who they harm. They're just

38:22

implementing their preferences.

38:22

And when you combine that with

38:26

short term mating strategy, it's

38:26

a deadly combination. So the

38:29

people you mentioned, like

38:29

Harvey Weinstein, excellent

38:32

example of that Jeffrey Epstein

38:32

clearly had high and dark triad

38:38

traits. And you're absolutely

38:38

right. Where are the women that

38:41

are hitting the news for

38:41

sexually exploiting all the men

38:45

that, you know, there? There

38:45

aren't. So not that women don't

38:50

sexually exploit men sometimes,

38:50

but at the scale that we're

38:54

talking about, men have a pretty

38:54

exclusive monopoly on.

38:58

And I guess,

38:58

obviously, talking about those

39:01

people in the dark triad. I

39:01

mean, hopefully, they they're

39:05

not so many of those in the

39:05

world. But some of the things

39:08

that I read in your book I was

39:08

surprised about and and which

39:11

may go to a also a length of

39:11

explaining why there are so many

39:16

women who are harassed is that,

39:16

for instance, if you ask people

39:20

how harassing is this, and you

39:20

give them a number of options,

39:24

so for instance, staring at a

39:24

chest, how harassing is that? Or

39:29

talk about your sexual

39:29

experience? Well, then men will

39:33

say, well, that's not very

39:33

harassing at all. Whereas women

39:36

will say, well, it actually is.

39:36

So there seems to be a

39:39

discrepancy between what act

39:39

actually is harassing for the

39:44

other person.

39:45

You're absolutely

39:45

right about that. And, and this

39:48

is another key cause of

39:48

conflict. Because when men

39:51

engage in these acts that women

39:51

perceive as harassing men think

39:55

oh, like, it's no big deal.

39:55

What's the big deal? I was, you

39:57

know, she had a nice body. I'm I

39:57

just felt like looking at it and

40:02

said, there's this disconnect.

40:02

And I think part of it is that

40:05

we are stuck in our own sexual

40:05

psychology. And so with the only

40:10

way we can know no other minds

40:10

are one way in which we know

40:14

their minds is we infer that

40:14

other sexual minds are similar

40:18

to our own. Hmm. And consulting

40:18

your own personal intuitions

40:23

about the sexual minds of

40:23

others, if it's the other sex is

40:28

a mistake, because the sexual

40:28

psychology of men and women

40:32

differ different fundamental

40:32

ways.

40:35

And also, you've researched stalking, I think you mentioned that before

40:37

as well and just are so

40:40

surprised about the number of

40:40

how many people have experienced

40:45

stalking. So I think you

40:45

mentioned that 19% of people in

40:49

high school have actually

40:49

experienced stalking. Now,

40:52

stalking can be a physical,

40:52

physically following somebody,

40:55

but it can also just be stalking

40:55

somebody on social media

40:59

breaking into a phone or

40:59

something. What have you learned

41:02

about stalking in your research?

41:04

Yeah, well, that's,

41:04

that's a great great that you

41:07

bring that up, because that's a

41:07

very new form of stalking, cyber

41:10

stalking. And it's only now

41:10

gotten the attention of

41:15

lawmakers who are starting to

41:15

strain to criminalize it. In

41:19

most places around the world.

41:19

It's not it's not criminal

41:22

activity. But I think that

41:22

that's going to change. So cyber

41:27

technology has enabled people to

41:27

implement conflict between the

41:32

sexes and in ways that are

41:32

historically unprecedented. And

41:35

it's extremely disturbing. I'll

41:35

tell you one, one more that has

41:39

come up recently is I can't

41:39

remember it's called it's like

41:42

called Deep fakes or something

41:42

like that, where people can

41:45

literally take a someone's

41:45

photograph, place photograph of

41:48

their face, and they can

41:48

implanted on a sex video tape

41:53

that is not them. And everyone

41:53

and then posted on the internet,

41:57

and of course, is extremely

41:57

traumatizing to the victims,

42:00

most of whom are women. So this

42:00

new technology is allowing

42:04

sexual harms in a way that we

42:04

never really had before.

42:08

Yes, with using

42:08

deep, deep fake that you can

42:11

take a picture of a woman

42:11

wearing a bikini, and then it

42:16

can remove the clothes, and it

42:16

will show how she looks like

42:19

without any clothes, and then

42:19

posting that, obviously to to

42:23

harm her on social media. And as

42:23

you rightly say, that is men

42:27

mainly doing that to to women.

42:30

Right, right. And

42:30

that's something I do talk about

42:32

in the book is revenge porn. And

42:32

so men who are served by women,

42:37

or rejected by women, often are

42:37

the ones who are doing that

42:41

revenge porn.

42:43

Yes. Evolutionary Psychology is

42:53

essentially taking the Darwin's

42:57

theory of sexual selection. And

42:57

then from that, inferring six

43:03

sexual conflicts that there are

43:03

between the sexes, so

43:06

essentially saying that there

43:06

are more similarities between

43:08

men and women. But on some

43:08

areas, there are differences.

43:12

And this relates to the sexual

43:12

selection theory. And these

43:16

conflicts essentially leads to

43:16

conflicts in a relationship or

43:22

between men and women. And I'd

43:22

like to get to the point now,

43:25

where we we talk about how this

43:25

might relate to for the

43:29

listeners. So What Monkeys Do is

43:29

a podcast about change. So I

43:32

want to talk a little bit about

43:32

him the end about how we can use

43:35

this knowledge, to say something

43:35

about how men and women can

43:40

engage in a conversation with

43:40

that knowledge in engage in a

43:44

conversation about making their

43:44

relationship, marriage, whatever

43:48

it is, as healthy as possible.

43:48

Do you have any, from your

43:52

research? And your many

43:52

conversations? You've probably

43:54

been asked this many times

43:54

before as well, to have you have

43:57

you got any advice for for for

43:57

relationships with this

44:01

knowledge?

44:02

Yeah, Yes, I do. I

44:02

guess you can divide it up into

44:05

two things. So one is, and this

44:05

was actually a question posed

44:09

recently on on Twitter, what is

44:09

the single most important

44:13

decision you can make in your

44:13

life? And what I say is, it's

44:17

the selection of a long term

44:17

mate, that that affects just

44:21

about everything else in your

44:21

life. Not that matings always

44:24

best to lifetime, of course,

44:24

they doubt their breakups,

44:27

divorces and so forth. But

44:27

selecting the right long term

44:31

mate is absolutely critical.

44:31

We've mentioned in one element

44:35

that in our conversation, which

44:35

is selecting a mate who's

44:38

similar and mate value, or who

44:38

has a similar mate value

44:41

trajectory, and I think that's

44:41

critical. Second, I would go for

44:46

avoiding the dark triad. So

44:46

avoid mates who are excessively

44:51

narcissistic, manipulative,

44:51

Machiavellian or psychopathic.

44:56

You want to pick someone who is

44:56

interested in a long term

44:59

mating. Not someone who wants to

44:59

play the field and express their

45:04

desire for sexual variety.

45:04

personality wise, we also want

45:08

to select someone who's

45:08

emotionally stable. emotional

45:11

stability in our research is one

45:11

of the key causes of conflict

45:15

within married couples, then

45:15

once you're in a relationship, I

45:19

think it's important to be open

45:19

and honest in terms of

45:22

communicating. Because as we

45:22

talked about males and females

45:26

have different psychologies in

45:26

different sexual and mating

45:30

psychologies in some ways, and

45:30

an honest communication about

45:34

that can do do wonders. Because

45:34

otherwise, if you just think,

45:38

well, the other person is

45:38

exactly like I am, then you're

45:42

always going to be frustrated

45:42

when they don't behave exactly

45:45

like you are like you want them

45:45

to behave. And so I think honest

45:49

communication about that. The

45:49

other thing I would recommend

45:52

is, is been to pardon the self

45:52

serving is to read my book on

45:59

The Evolution of Desire and Why

45:59

Men vs. Women Behave Badly.

46:04

Because I think that gives the

46:04

insights and in Why Men Behave

46:07

Badly. I devote a whole chapter

46:07

to the issue of coping with

46:10

conflict, because conflict will

46:10

emerge in all relationships.

46:14

I've never encountered a single

46:14

major shift that with black

46:18

comp, any conflict, the issue is

46:18

how you cope with it. And there

46:22

are effective strategies of

46:22

dealing with it in any effective

46:25

ones. And so I would encourage

46:25

your listeners to read that

46:28

chapter in the new book.

46:30

Yes. And I

46:30

think this is an important part

46:33

because obviously, outlining the

46:33

differences in between men and

46:38

women does not justify what men

46:38

do to women in terms of

46:42

harassment. But I guess what one

46:42

of your main point is that in

46:46

order to create the best

46:46

strategies as a society, for

46:51

dealing with these harassments,

46:51

and and and these things that

46:55

men do to women, we need to

46:55

understand the fundamental

46:58

reasons, evolutionary pressures

46:58

for these conflicts to arise in

47:04

the first place. And then we can

47:04

create strategies and laws as a

47:09

society to combat that. And I

47:09

guess that also works in a in a

47:13

relationship, I suppose, is by

47:13

understanding the underlying

47:18

drives that may be different for

47:18

the for the men and for the man

47:22

and the woman in the

47:22

relationship may be the first

47:24

step in understanding how do we

47:24

then deal with it?

47:26

Yes, absolutely. And

47:26

just to give one concrete

47:30

example, one man told me that

47:30

after he read my book, he it

47:35

caused him to be more faithful

47:35

to his wife, because he found

47:40

himself in a good relationship,

47:40

if you felt felt attracted to

47:44

other women. And when he was

47:44

attracted to other women, he

47:47

thought, well, maybe I'm not in

47:47

love with my wife anymore. After

47:50

you read my book, he realized,

47:50

Oh, that's my evolved desire for

47:53

sexual variety. It doesn't mean

47:53

I don't love my wife, I still

47:57

love her. But it's that evolved

47:57

desire for sexual variety that

48:00

helps me to stay faithful to my

48:00

wife.

48:03

Yes. So if one

48:03

of our listeners is in a

48:06

relationship, or in a marriage,

48:06

and it's going really well, but

48:09

then you're like, you're saying,

48:09

well, there's likely going to be

48:13

sexual conflict, because there

48:13

is in most relationships, and

48:18

the best way to combat that is

48:18

actually, first of all to

48:21

understand the evolutionary

48:21

reasons and the drivers for

48:26

those conflicts, because then

48:26

you can tackle it through

48:29

communication and having that

48:29

understanding.

48:32

Exactly. Perfect.

48:35

Great. That was

48:35

all I have for this interview at

48:37

this has been a really

48:37

interesting interview. I have

48:41

I've read your new book, it's

48:41

coming out next week. And I will

48:43

encourage listeners to to read

48:43

it. I said in the beginning that

48:46

I will encourage everyone to, to

48:46

read the the Evolution of

48:51

Desire, I still mean that. But

48:51

your new one is actually really

48:54

good. And it has a lot of up to

48:54

date, examples and also using

48:58

social media and your research

48:58

using Tinder and so on. I think

49:01

this is truly fascinating. And

49:01

then I think it has a very

49:05

critical eye on there is too

49:05

much harassment for against

49:10

women, and we need to do

49:10

something about it. But ignoring

49:13

our evolutionary drive will

49:13

probably not solve the problem

49:18

then. So I want to say thank you

49:18

very much, David for for taking

49:21

the time to speak with me. I

49:21

really enjoyed this.

49:23

Thank you. It's been

49:23

a delight tochat with you.

49:25

Fantastic. What a great interview. I took

49:32

three things away from my talk

49:36

with David. One. A lot of our

49:36

fundamental psychology, or

49:42

fundamental emotions can be

49:42

explained by sexual selection.

49:47

Darwin's natural selection is

49:47

probably pretty well known but

49:51

his other theory about sexual

49:51

selection is probably more

49:55

important. It explains why there

49:55

are differences between men and

49:59

women. When, and why we have

49:59

emotions such as jealousy and

50:04

desire. And this is important to

50:04

know because we have evolved

50:08

over millions of years. And this

50:08

is probably one of those things,

50:12

which is hard to change to sex

50:12

differences leads to sexual

50:18

conflicts. David has identified

50:18

six sexual conflicts between men

50:23

and women. They range from

50:23

sexual variety to sexual over

50:28

perception bias, what we lie

50:28

about infidelity, and so on. And

50:33

because of these conflicts, men

50:33

do bad things to women, and

50:37

women do bad things to men, we

50:37

all try to do what we can to get

50:42

the best mating partner we can.

50:42

But the really bad things are

50:48

almost always done by men,

50:48

sexual harassment, sexual

50:53

assault, stalking rate, all of

50:53

that is mainly done by men. And

51:00

three, we can use this knowledge

51:00

to make our relationship better.

51:05

David said that our single most

51:05

important decision we can make

51:09

is the selection of our long

51:09

term mating partner. And if you

51:13

are in a relationship

51:13

understanding that we can have,

51:17

so to speak, in sexual

51:17

conflicts, due to evolutionary

51:22

pressures, is very important for

51:22

us to understand because by

51:27

understanding that, we can then

51:27

create coping strategies, so men

51:32

desire more sexual partners than

51:32

women do now, but it's up to men

51:37

to suppress this desire and

51:37

understand that this is mainly

51:41

biological rather than any other

51:41

reason, and therefore should not

51:45

follow this design. David has a

51:45

fantastic research. He's a great

51:49

writer, but also a fantastic

51:49

speaker, you should check out

51:53

his excellent TED Talks. They

51:53

are truly fantastic. Until next

51:58

time, take care