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When Julie Burkhardt got woken up by her phone

0:37

one spring morning last year, she

0:39

wasn't exactly expecting good news.

0:42

Yeah, I knew it was going to be a problem.

0:45

That is for sure.

0:49

It was 5 30 in the morning. The sun

0:51

was just rising. It was her

0:53

contractor on the line. Julie

0:56

was getting ready to open up a new medical clinic

0:59

in Casper, Wyoming. Workers

1:01

were putting the finishing touches on the place. What

1:04

went through my head as I was answering

1:06

that call was like, oh, you know, maybe we had

1:08

a pipe burst or, you

1:10

know, something wrong with the electrical, you

1:13

know, something that could be easily fixed.

1:16

And what he said to me, he said, the

1:19

Calvary is here.

1:22

And I said, what? And

1:24

he said, the building's on fire.

1:27

He said, you know, can you get down

1:29

here?

1:29

When

1:32

Julie arrived, she saw the structure

1:34

was still standing at least. But

1:36

the windows on one side had been busted out

1:39

because the heat. The sheetrock was

1:41

toast. In the end, the

1:43

fire did around $300,000 worth

1:45

of damage. The grand opening

1:47

Julie had been picturing, it was not

1:50

going to happen.

1:54

This is the point where I need to explain

1:56

exactly what kind of clinic Julie was running

1:58

here. clinic. Julie's

2:01

run abortion clinics all over the country. For

2:04

years she worked with George Tiller, the Kansas

2:07

doctor who was murdered by an anti-abortion

2:09

zealot. Julie reopened

2:11

Tiller's clinic after he was assassinated. This

2:14

clinic in Wyoming, it was set to be

2:16

the lone full-service abortion provider

2:19

in the whole state. Given

2:21

all that, it wasn't like a little fire

2:24

was gonna stop her, even if this

2:26

fire was meant to send a message.

2:32

At what point did you realize this wasn't an accident?

2:34

Just something that happened, like

2:36

an electrical fire? Oh, I think

2:40

immediately. I think once

2:42

our contractor told me

2:45

about it on the phone, you know,

2:48

I knew.

2:51

Today on the show, Julie is

2:53

just one of many abortion providers

2:55

who's faced violent threats in

2:57

the wake of the Supreme Court appending

3:00

reproductive rights in

3:00

this country.

3:02

But she won't stop doing this work. I'm

3:05

Mary Harris. You're listening to What Next. Stick

3:07

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5:36

over the years julie burghardt has become

5:38

someone who's known for opening up abortion

5:40

clinics in difficult even hostile

5:42

places but

5:44

i wondered how someone even gets into

5:46

that line of work

5:48

so after to take me back way that

5:51

it turns out she started working an abortion clinics

5:53

while she was in college just as a summer

5:55

job in wichita kansas and

5:58

she's like with it you learn

6:00

while you were there? What were you doing?

6:02

Oh goodness. Well, I really got to do a little

6:04

bit of everything. My main job was

6:07

scheduling patients and doing

6:10

check-in when we had clinic days.

6:12

But then I got to the point where I

6:15

learned how to do our consultations. I

6:18

learned how to do lab, auto-claving,

6:21

room turnover. Oh, you did everything.

6:23

Yeah, I learned, you know, people

6:26

think, oh, working in an abortion clinic, how could you

6:28

ever have fun? But still

6:30

to this day, it's one of the best

6:32

jobs I ever had. And

6:35

we had a lot of fun.

6:36

You were working in abortion clinics in

6:39

Kansas right around the time

6:41

that

6:42

the summer of mercy took place,

6:44

right? This was this summer, I think it was 1991? 1991. Yep.

6:46

And a number of evangelical activists

6:51

basically decided to descend

6:54

on Wichita and

6:56

block access to clinics, just

6:58

make themselves known. 25,000 people

7:02

descended on Wichita yesterday for one

7:04

of the largest anti-abortion rallies ever

7:06

held. Ladies and gentlemen,

7:08

as I stand here before this tremendous

7:11

crowd today, I tell

7:13

you that there is a moral

7:16

imperative for all of us

7:18

to defend the rights of the unborn

7:20

child. Can you just

7:22

describe what that was like?

7:24

Oh, I think the first thing

7:26

that comes to mind is mayhem.

7:28

I mean, there were just thousands

7:31

and thousands

7:31

of protesters. It

7:34

was just infuriating the strategies

7:36

that they used. We

7:39

had people, you know, chained,

7:42

you locked to our building.

7:45

And,

7:51

you know, when they would commit

7:54

an illegal

8:00

Act, you know, one of

8:01

their strategies in order to take up

8:03

the, you know, police time

8:05

in order to and to make sure

8:07

we were closed longer, they

8:10

would take baby steps or

8:12

they would go limp

8:13

and make law enforcement

8:15

carry them to the bus

8:18

or the truck. Did

8:25

you ever talk to them? No, not

8:28

really. My approach was to not talk to

8:30

them because I didn't feel

8:32

that it was going to solve anything

8:35

on a global scale, but I do

8:38

remember when there was one anti-choice

8:40

woman who was really in my face

8:43

one day and I do remember

8:45

turning around and

8:47

asking her, and I

8:49

hope this isn't inappropriate, but asking

8:52

her if she would like for me to take a pregnancy test

8:54

right there on the sidewalk for her, but

8:57

that was about the only engagement

9:00

I had

9:00

with folks.

9:01

Was it a relief when

9:03

the protesters went away?

9:04

Well, yeah, I mean it's always

9:06

a relief when you don't have people standing

9:09

outside of your building, you

9:12

know, yelling at

9:15

patients coming in, you know, belittling

9:18

them, shaming them.

9:21

So yes, when no one's at the building,

9:23

it's quite lovely. It feels

9:25

rather freeing.

9:27

Did you feel like it was a warning though? But like

9:29

after this Summer of Mercy

9:31

demonstration, like, huh,

9:34

is this what it's gonna be like now? I

9:36

don't know. I think we were still

9:38

under the impression

9:39

that, oh, they're going

9:41

to have their show

9:43

this Summer and then,

9:46

you

9:47

know, things can get

9:48

a bit back to normal,

9:50

but they never did.

9:52

Julie kept working in reproductive rights

9:55

after that Summer, eventually focusing

9:57

on strategy and communications.

9:59

A decade later, she met Dr. George Tiller.

10:03

Tiller was an abortion provider in

10:05

Kansas, maybe the best-known

10:07

abortion provider in that state. That

10:10

was because he specialized in performing abortions

10:12

later in pregnancy,

10:13

which made him a target.

10:15

Bill O'Reilly, for instance, frequently referred

10:17

to him as Tiller the Baby Killer.

10:20

The bill was introduced because of the notorious

10:22

Tiller the Baby Killer case, where Dr. George

10:24

Tiller destroys fetuses for just

10:26

about any reason right up until the birth

10:28

date for $5,000. Julie

10:31

became Tiller's spokesperson,

10:33

as well as his legislative and political

10:35

director.

10:37

By this point, his clinic had already

10:39

been bombed, and he'd survived an assassination

10:41

attempt. But despite all that, Julie

10:44

says,

10:45

his offices were warm and welcoming.

10:48

One of my

10:50

favorite memories of his clinic, there

10:53

were many spaces in the clinic

10:56

that had framed letters

10:58

from former patients.

11:01

And I just took great

11:03

joy in just being able to read those.

11:07

And they were there for other people

11:09

to read, especially patients

11:11

coming in who might be a little bit

11:13

nervous, but people

11:16

just expressing their gratitude

11:18

and love for him and feeling

11:20

like they got their lives

11:21

back.

11:23

I imagine it would make you feel less alone

11:25

as a patient.

11:26

Yeah, kind of surrounded by those letters.

11:29

Yeah.

11:30

Was violence something you worried about, working with

11:32

Dr. Tiller? I know that there'd been an assassination

11:35

attempt

11:35

against him, so clearly that was

11:38

in his mind. Was it in yours

11:40

as well? Oh yes, absolutely.

11:42

I mean, I

11:44

can't tell you how many times I walked

11:46

into his office for a meeting, and

11:48

his bulletproof vest was on the couch.

11:50

He just wore it regularly. Yes,

11:53

yes. He had an armored

11:55

vehicle, which

11:57

I drove once, which was

11:59

kind of

11:59

a a comedy of errors anyway.

12:01

But he drove

12:04

around in a bulletproof vehicle.

12:06

The fact that he didn't

12:08

go out and eat at restaurants freely

12:11

and he had safe places

12:14

where he could go to socialize,

12:17

the fact that he lived in a gated community.

12:19

So there was worry.

12:22

Do

12:22

you remember finding out about his death?

12:24

Yeah, absolutely.

12:26

You know, there are certain things

12:28

that are seared into your brain.

12:31

Yeah, I just never

12:33

will forget that day. It was 2009, right?

12:37

Yes. May 31st, 2009.

12:40

You were in Washington, is my understanding.

12:42

Yes. I was in Washington, D.C.

12:44

I was at a meeting. We'd

12:47

gone out on a morning break.

12:50

I will never forget how beautiful

12:53

it was outside. It was one of those

12:55

crisp spring mornings.

12:57

We go back in, we continue

13:00

meeting,

13:00

and we were just getting ready to take our lunch

13:03

break then. My phone

13:05

started vibrating and vibrating.

13:09

My first thought

13:11

was

13:12

maybe something's happened to my daughter,

13:14

so I better

13:16

see who's trying to

13:18

get a hold of me. But yeah,

13:21

it wasn't my husband. It wasn't my

13:23

daughter, thank goodness. But

13:25

it was people trying to get a hold

13:27

of me

13:28

to tell me that he'd

13:30

been assassinated.

13:32

Late-term abortion Dr. George Tiller

13:34

has been gunned down during services at his church

13:36

in Wichita, Kansas. Tiller's attorney

13:39

says he was shot as he served as an usher

13:41

during Sunday morning services at Reformation

13:43

Lutheran Church. He says Tiller's wife

13:45

was in the choir at the time.

13:47

You've talked about how this was like the one moment

13:49

you've had where you had to

13:51

step back and reconsider

13:53

what you were doing, which

13:54

was

13:56

working in the reproductive

13:59

community. rights space

14:02

and particularly in

14:04

regions of the country where

14:07

reproductive rights aren't

14:09

getting as much support.

14:12

Can you tell me about that

14:14

thought? Like what was that thought? How

14:16

did you deal with it?

14:18

You know, I think not only my

14:20

concern, but everybody in the movement

14:22

was,

14:22

you know, is this now

14:24

going to be a

14:27

trend, which we had seen

14:30

previously in the 90s, where,

14:31

you know, we had

14:34

a number

14:34

of people assassinated. And

14:37

I just remember

14:39

thinking a lot about what

14:44

am I really

14:44

willing to sacrifice?

14:47

Can I sacrifice my life?

14:49

Am I okay with that?

14:52

You know, and that's a heavy question

14:55

to ask, you know, of people,

14:57

anyone.

15:00

I kind of wonder if you could tap yourself

15:02

on the shoulder now

15:06

and say to, you know,

15:07

you back in 2009,

15:10

in

15:11

like 10 years, a little

15:14

bit more, you

15:16

will not only have reopened Dr. Tiller's

15:19

clinic, you'll be opening clinics

15:22

elsewhere too. This is going to be your thing.

15:25

Would you believe yourself?

15:26

Oh, no.

15:28

I was scared to death. I

15:31

mean, you know, I think also on the other hand,

15:33

I

15:35

wanted a way to

15:37

honor Dr. Tiller and to honor

15:39

all the other people who had

15:41

lost their lives in this movement. That's

15:44

no small sacrifice. And

15:47

also, which just

15:49

makes me angry is, you

15:52

know, we are supposed to let

15:55

the tyranny of this minority,

15:57

these folks who are in the

15:59

have these very rigid ideologies

16:02

dictate our lives?

16:05

And the answer, you know, that I kept coming

16:08

back to was no. And so

16:10

then the question was, well, Julie,

16:13

what is it that you could help

16:15

to do about that?

16:17

What was it like when you reopened Dr. Tiller's

16:19

Wichita Clinic?

16:22

Oh, it was like a miracle. Why

16:25

do you say that? Oh, it took about

16:27

four years. You

16:29

know, it's pretty tough because people initially

16:32

thought, Oh, Julie, you open

16:35

another clinic in Wichita, you're just inviting

16:37

violence back into this community.

16:40

But we were

16:42

not the ones who perpetrated

16:45

that violence. And

16:48

I also felt that it was just morally wrong

16:50

for us to take

16:53

what these folks had dreamt

16:55

up for us and in murdering

16:57

Dr. Tiller and you know, just sit down

17:00

and take it that what that was not going to happen.

17:02

And I hope I hope it would have made

17:04

him proud. I hope he would have been

17:07

happy.

17:09

We'll be back after a break.

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19:22

After successfully reopening Dr. Tiller's

19:25

clinic in Wichita, Julie

19:27

kept going, looking for other places

19:30

that needed abortion clinics. In

19:32

Oklahoma, she opened the first new clinic since

19:34

the 1970s. Then

19:37

in 2020, a colleague

19:39

approached Julie and asked her to consider

19:41

coming to Wyoming. At the time,

19:43

there was only a single abortion clinic for the whole

19:45

state, and that clinic only offered

19:48

medication abortions. That

19:50

meant that after 10 weeks of pregnancy, a woman

19:53

was on her own. It took

19:55

Julie a year to decide.

19:57

When she did, she committed fully. She

19:59

found a

19:59

medical office in Casper, Wyoming. She

20:02

started getting it ready. Even

20:04

though by then it was clear the Supreme Court

20:06

might be about to gut Roe v. Wade.

20:09

And then came that fire. We talked

20:12

about how the clinic was set on fire

20:14

right

20:14

as it was supposed to open. Can you

20:17

tell me about the process of recovery from that?

20:20

Did everything have to be ripped out inside? Like was it

20:22

burned? Oh yes. So 100%

20:24

of the ceiling

20:26

and the flooring had to be stripped and all that

20:29

was brand new. 95% of

20:30

the

20:34

sheetrock

20:34

was torn out. It

20:37

was taken down to the studs. So

20:39

what we ended up with after

20:42

the arson was a more

20:44

intensive rebuild

20:47

than when the

20:49

property was first purchased. Fortunately,

20:52

I will say, I was so

20:54

afraid that

20:55

our contractors were going to walk

20:57

away.

20:59

You kept them. Yes, they stayed.

21:01

And I frankly, because

21:03

I didn't know and I was

21:05

very nervous. And you

21:08

know, it was to the point where I didn't even want to ask

21:10

the question.

21:12

Will you stay and do this with me?

21:14

Yeah, I did not want

21:16

to ask them. But

21:18

you were afraid to say no. Oh, yes.

21:19

I mean, because we all had been

21:22

through so much. And, and

21:24

also I think about them as contractors, they had

21:26

done all this beautiful work

21:27

to the building. And

21:29

then it was their work that was

21:31

destroyed. You know,

21:34

so that they had, you know, they were invested

21:36

in this. They said, yes, they

21:39

would stay with us. And they did

21:41

the second remodel.

21:43

It wasn't just a physical

21:45

hurdle of getting your clinic

21:47

open again after the fire. It's just

21:50

it's

21:50

amazing to me to think of the timeline because the

21:53

Dobbs decision that overturned the Roe v.

21:55

Wade came down just a couple months after

21:57

the arson

21:58

at your building.

21:59

So you were racing

22:02

to open this building

22:03

before the Supreme

22:05

Court ruled on abortion.

22:07

The building is set on fire.

22:09

You're having to start rebuilding. And in the middle

22:11

of that, all of a sudden, boom,

22:13

Roe

22:14

v. Wade is overturned. I

22:18

mean, I just,

22:20

I can't imagine what it was like

22:22

to have all those things happening at once.

22:24

It was,

22:27

well, stressful. It was

22:30

disconcerting.

22:33

It did make me

22:35

think

22:36

twice.

22:39

Julie was thinking twice partially because

22:41

it was not clear what the legal status of abortion

22:44

would be in Wyoming after Dobbs. The

22:46

state had a trigger law that threatened to ban the

22:48

procedure. Wyoming then became

22:51

the first state in the country to ban abortion

22:53

pills entirely. So

22:55

Julie's organization, Wallspring Health Access,

22:58

alongside other plaintiffs, filed

23:00

lawsuits against those bans, all

23:03

while Julie was trying to rebuild her clinic.

23:07

Those lawsuits are still ongoing, but a judge

23:09

has temporarily halted both bans.

23:11

So abortion is still legal in Wyoming

23:14

for now.

23:15

I mean, I never, I never like to operate

23:18

in an overly confident way, but I

23:21

did, I did feel that

23:23

with the language in the

23:25

state constitution,

23:27

I just really felt in my

23:30

gut, my heart, that

23:32

we were going to be able

23:34

to make a case

23:37

and the

23:39

judge would be able to see that

23:41

we were on the right side of the law here.

23:44

Yeah. Can you explain about Wyoming's

23:47

constitution? Because it really does have this

23:49

unique provision about healthcare decision

23:51

making that it seems to me

23:53

that you and the other plaintiffs

23:55

looked at and said, ha, this

23:57

is useful for us. What was your...

23:59

approach. Well, and that's

24:02

one of our arguments in

24:04

the lawsuit is pointing

24:07

to the provision in

24:09

the Constitution that says

24:12

adult Wyomingites are

24:14

able to make their decisions

24:17

freely about their health care

24:20

without government interference.

24:23

Seems pretty broad and also pretty straightforward.

24:27

Yes, so does it explicitly

24:30

call out abortion? No,

24:32

but you know it is not explicit

24:34

on any level regarding you know health

24:37

care treatments. Health

24:39

care is health care and so

24:41

you know we felt that right there within the

24:43

Constitution with that language

24:45

alone that we would have a really good

24:47

case.

24:49

Your Wyoming Clinic is now finally

24:51

open, right?

24:52

Yes, we saw our first patient

24:55

April 27th. You're offering all

24:57

kinds of services, right? Not just abortion.

25:00

Yes.

25:01

Is that intentional? Like you're offering

25:03

gender affirming care is my understanding,

25:06

all kinds of things.

25:07

Yes,

25:08

we offer gender affirming care

25:11

you know just general GYN visits,

25:14

family planning, so

25:17

a wide array of visits.

25:20

How do you think about day-to-day operations

25:22

at the Wyoming Clinic knowing you

25:24

might have to stop providing abortion services

25:27

pretty much whenever if the

25:30

courts don't rule in your favor? Yeah,

25:32

well you know I think about Wyoming

25:35

the same way that I

25:37

think about thought about Oklahoma.

25:39

You know Oklahoma was a case

25:41

where the clinic was open for six years

25:44

before abortion was outlawed there

25:47

and so I think you know the same

25:49

goes for Wyoming that you

25:52

know if we can help

25:55

even just one person or a

25:57

hundred people or two hundred people

25:59

Well,

26:01

whatever that number is, then

26:03

I can't discount

26:06

what kind of an impact that

26:08

has or would

26:10

have on a person's

26:13

life. I just think that having that positive

26:16

impact on people's lives, even

26:18

if it's for a year or two years,

26:22

then it was worth it.

26:24

The

26:27

police eventually apprehended

26:30

the

26:31

person who set

26:33

fire to your clinic,

26:35

right?

26:36

Yes, they apprehended her

26:39

in March of

26:41

this year. I understand that she is pleading

26:44

guilty.

26:45

She'll be sentenced pretty soon, at least at the

26:47

time we're talking.

26:48

Yes.

26:50

The woman who set fire to Julie's clinic, her

26:53

name is Lorna Green. She was just a college

26:55

student when she did it, and she claims

26:57

to have acted alone. Security

27:00

cameras caught Green breaking a window and

27:02

pouring gas on the building before fleeing.

27:05

After a reward was offered, the police

27:07

got one tip after another that

27:10

pointed to Green.

27:12

Are you going to go to her sentencing?

27:13

Yes, I will be, and I

27:16

have a statement prepared. We

27:19

are asking for restitution.

27:21

I have a victim impact statement.

27:24

What do you must want her to know?

27:26

Just

27:27

that this is no way to

27:29

solve a problem,

27:32

a disagreement. We

27:34

all think differently,

27:35

but to

27:38

act in

27:40

a violent manner because you

27:43

think someone is wrong

27:45

is an absolute

27:48

crime.

27:50

She's 22, the same age as my daughter.

27:52

Oh wow. Yeah, which I don't

27:55

know. I guess having a daughter 22 has maybe affected

27:57

me more.

27:59

but I'm very sad for her. I'm very

28:02

sad for her that she is

28:04

going to be spending her 20s, and

28:06

maybe she could get up to 20 years. The

28:09

sentence is 5 to 20, but definitely her 20s

28:13

in prison.

28:16

And just

28:18

that is also a loss

28:20

of life. And to be so

28:23

young and to think that

28:25

you know so much about what is right

28:27

and wrong,

28:30

the world is gray. We all

28:33

operate our lives in the

28:35

middle, trying to make

28:37

good decisions. And

28:39

I hope she can really figure that out

28:42

as she serves her prison time. Do

28:45

you feel like your clinic's safe now

28:47

that she's in jail?

28:50

No, no, I don't.

28:52

No, because there could be just another

28:54

person who wants

28:55

to commit an

28:57

act of violence. I

29:01

am grateful that since the

29:04

arson, we have not had any

29:06

acts of violence, but

29:10

we are vigilant.

29:15

Julie, I'm really grateful for your time. Thanks

29:17

for coming on the show. Well, thank you

29:19

for having me, and it's been

29:22

a pleasure.

29:24

Julie Burkhardt is the president of Wellspring

29:26

Health Access. After

29:29

Julie and I spoke, the woman who set fire

29:31

to her Wyoming clinic was sentenced

29:33

to five years in prison. That's

29:36

the mandatory minimum in her plea deal. And

29:39

that's our show. What next is produced by

29:41

Paige Osborne, Elena Schwartz, Rob Gunther, Madeline

29:43

Ducharme, and Anna Phillips. We

29:46

are led by Alicia Montgomery with a little help from Susan

29:48

Matthews. Ben Richmond is the senior

29:50

director of podcast operations

29:51

here at Slate. And I'm Mary Harris.

29:54

Thanks for listening. I'll catch you soon.