0:00

Hey everybody. So today I'm having

0:02

a conversation with the hip hop artist

0:04

DaBaby. There was a point when

0:07

DaBaby was literally the face of hip hop, one

0:09

of the biggest artists in the world. He

0:11

conquered all of the hip hop stages and all the

0:13

way to the Grammys. He was killing it.

0:16

Until one day he made statements at

0:18

the Rolling Loud Festival, which many people

0:20

deemed extremely homophobic and everything in his

0:23

career changed. DaBaby is one of the

0:25

hottest rappers in the game. But after

0:27

making some wild comments during his Rolling

0:29

Loud performance, major celebrities like Elton John

0:31

and Questlove have called him out, saying

0:33

his actions are ignorant and homophobic. Baby

0:35

is doubling down on his seemingly homophobic

0:37

and disturbing remarks made on stage at

0:39

Rolling Loud in Miami. Now, since

0:42

then, DaBaby has still been a performer, he's still

0:44

been an artist, and many have

0:46

asked the question, has he learned, has he changed,

0:48

and what has he learned or changed from that

0:50

experience? Well today, we're chatting to him about all

0:52

of this. This

0:59

is What Now? With Trevor

1:01

Noah. This

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episode is brought to you by Starbucks. Ah,

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2:20

What's going on? Happy podcast day everybody. How

2:23

you doing? Good, how are you? I'm

2:25

fantastic. Me and Mandem's having a great time,

2:28

blood. Can

2:31

I tell you something? I think I'm going to move to London. Yeah?

2:34

I'm having the time of my life.

2:36

I just love it. What

2:39

part are you staying in? All of

2:41

it, blood, all of it. I got

2:43

bare minds, innit? So I've been riding

2:45

the tube to my shows. Which,

2:50

you know what's strange is like everyone in London tells

2:52

you to ride the tube, but then when you

2:54

ride the tube, everyone asks you why you're riding the tube, which

2:56

is a very strange thing. Literally I'm on

2:58

the train every single day going to my show

3:00

and then people are like, what are you doing

3:02

here? What are you doing riding the tube? And

3:04

you're like, well, it's the fastest way. Yeah, but

3:06

I didn't expect you to be riding the tube.

3:09

Oh, that's not strange. Oh, what are you doing

3:11

here? And then one guy's with me

3:13

on the escalators coming up from

3:16

the underground and he goes, yo Trev, I

3:18

thought they gave you more money than to

3:20

ride the subway, bruv. But

3:24

I love it. It's been fun, you know. So

3:27

I was in Ireland for a day. I

3:30

love the Irishman. They just have like a, I

3:33

don't know what it is. They have a thing

3:35

that connects them to us as South Africans.

3:37

Oppression, oppression and colonization. You

3:39

see, I wasn't going to say that, Christiana.

3:42

I was looking for something more. I love

3:44

the Irish, but they've suffered. So that's why

3:46

we get on. I like the Irish too.

3:48

Scotland and Ireland, I feel like it's a

3:50

full, they feel

3:52

like 100% my people who

3:54

just live somewhere else. That's how I feel. And

3:57

the Irish are the least uncomfortable

4:00

with a very uncomfortable story. You

4:03

know? Yeah, I can see

4:05

that. In fact, Ireland was the first place where

4:07

I ever like told stories about apartheid in South

4:09

Africa because I was talking to

4:11

a comedian and like some audience members. We

4:13

were at a comedy festival and

4:17

one of the comedians was chatting

4:19

to me and he's like, so tell me a little bit

4:21

about your life Trevor. Like what have you done? Where have

4:23

you been? And I was like, oh, this is how I

4:25

grew up and this is what I... and he goes, by

4:28

God, why aren't you talking about any of that on

4:30

stage? And I was like, well, because

4:33

it's depressing. I'm talking about apartheid

4:35

and racism and he's like, that's the most

4:38

interesting thing you've talked about, Trevor. He's like,

4:40

our audiences would love to hear about that.

4:43

And I was like, oh, okay. And then I

4:45

went on stage the next day and I told some of

4:47

those stories and the audiences loved it. And

4:49

so I will always credit

4:51

the Irish for, you

4:54

know, being the people who encouraged me to

4:56

just explore the less obviously

4:58

funny parts of life and

5:00

the less comfortable parts of living. Because

5:03

I think, you know, that's comedy encompasses all of

5:05

it. Life encompasses all

5:07

of it. This podcast encompasses all of

5:09

it. That's why we're here people. That's

5:12

why we're here. The good, the bad and the

5:14

ugly. I mean, look at our guests today. The

5:16

baby. Oh, the baby. Yes. This

5:20

is an interesting one. Christiana,

5:22

this is how I know you are my friend truly. Yes.

5:25

Is that you you'll roll with me and

5:27

you you you have both a judgment and

5:30

a love and an understanding for me regardless

5:32

of some of the decisions I make. Yes.

5:34

I mean, I trust it will be

5:37

okay in the end. Just

5:39

like I trust you'll do a good the baby

5:41

interview, even though I have some

5:44

reservations. Well, I

5:46

trust I'll roll with you on it. That's okay. So

5:49

so here's the thing. Some

5:51

people listening to this podcast have no clue what

5:53

a da baby is. And

5:55

if you're one of those people, I actually

5:57

hope you will listen because I think It's

6:00

a fascinating conversation that goes

6:02

beyond his art and

6:05

the music that he creates. And

6:09

I think there will be parts of the conversation that

6:11

will be very tough. You know, DaBaby

6:14

has not lived an easy life, nor has he grown

6:16

up in an easy world. And I think he's been

6:18

part of making it not easy

6:20

at times. And

6:23

if you do know DaBaby, some of you

6:25

might love him and go like, oh, I love him and his music. He's

6:28

like, I cannot stand DaBaby. I

6:31

hate everything he stands for. And

6:33

I don't know. I

6:36

often find myself wrestling in life with

6:40

the question of forgiveness,

6:45

reconciliation, and

6:47

the conversations that we have with people

6:49

who have either wronged us or wronged,

6:51

quote unquote, society. And

6:54

one of the things that interests me about DaBaby is you

6:57

have someone who has

7:00

definitely, I mean, he's definitely

7:02

hurt people. But he

7:05

seems to want to make amends.

7:07

And sometimes I feel like he

7:09

doesn't necessarily have the tools

7:12

or the aptitude, but he has a willingness and I'm

7:14

a sucker for willingness. Yeah,

7:17

I know that about you. You're definitely

7:19

a sucker for some willing, even if

7:21

they're not able. Yeah, but I

7:23

think he's but I think he's I don't know about the

7:25

willing part and I'd love to learn

7:28

more. I would say that before,

7:31

you know, all of his controversies, I

7:33

was a big fan of DaBaby. I

7:35

still think he's so talented.

7:37

Yeah, just that music is

7:39

brilliant. Music videos

7:43

just so artistic. So

7:45

I came to his music as a fan.

7:49

And then I think perhaps it was fame, perhaps it

7:51

was environmental, but, you know, a

7:54

few things happen back to back and you're just

7:56

like, oh, and then, you know, kind of culminated

7:58

in the incident. at Rolling

8:00

Loud Festival where he was quite

8:03

homophobic very publicly, even

8:05

though the crowd seemed to be enjoying it, which

8:07

what was going on in that crowd? But

8:09

you know, and since then he's

8:11

kind of been a pariah, but he's I think

8:13

he's coming back into public

8:16

life and there

8:18

are some people that feel he hasn't

8:20

been accountable enough. I'm intrigued by

8:23

how people get to where they are

8:25

and what informs not

8:27

just the decisions they make, but the people

8:29

they become. And the baby's

8:31

one of those people because I loved what you said. You

8:34

became a fan of his and

8:36

then discovered things. And

8:38

I sometimes wonder how many times

8:42

people all aren't given grace because we

8:44

don't know what we don't know about

8:46

them. Yeah. And then

8:48

when we do discover things about them, they're lucky

8:51

enough that their past or their present doesn't sort

8:53

of catch up to them, you know? Yeah. And

8:55

it wasn't just his kind of comments. He also

8:57

has kind of this history of violence. And

9:00

I do want to say that sometimes

9:03

this is not to absolve him for any responsibility

9:05

for the things he's done. But how

9:08

much is that link to how we grew up? Right?

9:10

That was that where the violence come from. I'm curious

9:12

about that. But I do think we live in a

9:14

world where violent men are able to

9:16

get away with things with little

9:18

to no consequence. But you

9:21

know, who knows what consequences he's

9:23

faced both personally and professionally because

9:26

of it. The question I would have is

9:28

how willing is he to

9:30

grow? Does he want to grow?

9:32

Does he need to grow? And then more

9:35

interesting for me is what

9:39

is everything that

9:41

has affected him? Like, like, what are the

9:43

ingredients that have come together to create the

9:46

baby and who this human being is? That's

9:48

what I'm really interested to get into with with

9:50

the baby is, you know,

9:54

who is who is the human being behind

9:57

the actions? Let's

10:00

help him with the baby. Let's see if he can let the others go. Hello.

10:10

The baby. Welcome to the podcast. Pleasure to be here. I appreciate

10:12

you having me. I think for this

10:14

conversation what I really wanted to get into is understanding

10:17

you as a human being, to

10:19

understand a lot about you as the

10:22

artist. Absolutely. You know, you've

10:24

had an outsized influence on the world. You

10:27

know, someone who has 21 million followers just on

10:29

your Instagram, but what

10:31

your music has done, what you've embodied, I think

10:33

goes far beyond that. And so let's

10:36

start with that. I'm

10:38

always intrigued by how an

10:41

artist chooses their name and what that

10:43

name means to them. Absolutely. Why the

10:45

baby? Well, I'm the

10:47

youngest of three boys.

10:49

My mom has three sons. I'm the

10:51

youngest sibling out of the three sons.

10:54

And not only that, like early

10:56

on, early on I

11:00

had the name Baby Jesus. Okay. This

11:02

is as a local artist, you know what I'm saying? But

11:04

my mom didn't feel, she didn't feel good about that, man.

11:06

You know what I'm saying? A lot of people, they're like,

11:09

no, absolutely not. No,

11:11

no. But I'm like, you know,

11:13

my whole thing with it was

11:16

like my purpose being, you know, to

11:18

do for others. Uh-huh. You

11:20

know what I mean? And not myself. So that's my responsibility.

11:22

You know what I mean on this earth. I

11:24

would love to know what your

11:26

family was like and why that has been

11:29

such a driving force in your life. So

11:31

you were born in Cleveland. Cleveland, all right.

11:33

Raised in Charlotte, North Carolina. So what moved

11:35

there when you were seven years old? Yep.

11:38

Was there a reason you moved? Was it good? Was it bad? Oh, it

11:41

was a great thing. I commend my

11:43

mother, you know what I mean? Yeah. For changing

11:45

our environment, the situation, even though Charlotte itself is a, you

11:48

know, is not a walk in the park. You know what I mean? Not

11:50

at all. Like not even a little bit. What was your mom like?

11:53

Like was she strict? Was she a disciplinarian? Absolutely. Yeah.

11:57

Absolutely. But also fun, loving,

11:59

nurturing. know what I mean? Like all

12:01

about her sons, like all about her sons.

12:03

Her, I remember her, her

12:05

email was my three sons, Linda, like

12:07

everything is my three sons, my handsome

12:10

son. She's all about just uplifting. She

12:12

was proud of you from the beginning.

12:14

Absolutely. Especially me, like I

12:16

got to smile like curly two dimples.

12:19

I resemble her the most. My brother, don't get mad at

12:21

me to my brother. Y'all got mad at me enough growing

12:23

up, but like I'm my mother's twin. You

12:25

know what I'm saying? Right. Sweetest woman on earth. You

12:27

know what I mean? Like I'll

12:29

give you the, the, the shoes off her feet. You know

12:31

what I'm saying? If you didn't have them, even if she

12:33

didn't have another pair to put on. How, how did she

12:35

punish you? Oh, she, like if you did

12:37

something wrong, whoops, all right. She would go. Oh no, no, no,

12:40

no. She, she whooped our ass. You know what I'm saying?

12:43

Most definitely. Like we, what was the worst

12:45

whipping your mom gave you? Oh man. Um,

12:48

like I remember mine, the two that I

12:50

hated the most was I had two

12:53

types of whippings that my mom would give me. One was

12:55

the chasing whipping. That one was one

12:57

where I was, I was trying to get away and she

12:59

would just, she would just follow me. It was like a

13:01

tornado coming off. And then the

13:03

other one was, like

13:05

I always, I tell my mom till this

13:07

day, I go, that was like, it's like

13:09

a war crime. She would send me outside

13:11

to get a stick from a switch. You

13:14

can pull the switch. Absolutely. Yeah. And she

13:16

would send me outside to pick my own

13:18

punishment. I hated being an accomplice to her

13:20

crime. So you, everyone

13:22

knows they worst, like what was the worst whipping

13:24

that was one of the ones that was always,

13:26

you know, that's like adding insult to injury. Yeah.

13:29

I mean, you know, especially when you try to

13:31

find the tiniest little dick, oh no, go back

13:33

and it's like, go back. So definitely

13:35

the ones with the switch and the extension

13:40

cord, you know, with landline. Oh

13:42

man. Here at the extension cord, you can hear

13:44

it. And one thing about

13:47

my mom, like one thing she always,

13:49

like she was very adamant on, like not

13:51

feeling sorry for yourself. Like, you know, like

13:55

when we used to get whoopins, like we weren't

13:57

allowed to cry. The whooping isn't over until you.

14:00

Until you stop crying Wow, yeah, like that's

14:02

it because it's like, you know, you you

14:05

know, you know right from wrong You know, I'm saying how did

14:07

how did you you know, I feel like everyone

14:09

has a different experience of this as a child. Mm-hmm did

14:11

you Know why

14:13

you were being whipped and and and but but

14:15

did you did you think that it was right

14:17

or did you go? This is the worst thing

14:19

in the which which way did you go? Cuz

14:21

I feel as there's always two types of kids.

14:24

I knew right from wrong, you know, and it

14:26

kind of it kind of you know tickles me

14:28

sometimes because Like with

14:30

the way that I'm perceived, you know I mean by

14:32

the public like I was the good child

14:34

in my house like you know I'm saying

14:36

in my home my household. I was done.

14:38

I was an angel, you know, I'm

14:40

saying like I was an angel So, you know, I say

14:44

that to say, you know, like the the environment that

14:46

I come from Yeah, I was told I was raised

14:48

in like every day. It was like

14:50

it was war You know to me like growing up

14:52

was a challenge for me, you know, how was it?

14:54

Let's talk about those challenges You

14:57

know, I grew up in South Africa, you know,

14:59

we had our challenges They're very

15:01

different and yet I find in many ways

15:03

very similar Absolutely too many experiences that black

15:05

Americans had absolutely, you know, we all have

15:08

our hood We all have the dude

15:10

at the corner. We all have the dice game. We

15:12

all have the shootings We all have it's

15:14

strange how familiar and yet how different

15:16

the world's work on different sides of

15:18

the world You you grew up in

15:20

this world where you know You have

15:22

a mom who by all accounts is

15:24

religious is driven as focused is loving

15:27

is also a disciplinarian she's keeping

15:29

you in check and She

15:32

moves you to North Carolina now when you're

15:34

growing up in North Carolina I've

15:37

read a little on your story. I've listened to some of the Interviews

15:40

that you've had it seems like

15:42

you lived in a strangely hybrid world

15:45

where on the one hand You

15:47

had a few opportunities but on the other hand you

15:49

were in the streets and I'd love to know How

15:52

did you end up in the streets? What would like did you find

15:54

the streets or did the streets find you? So

15:56

a lot of those elements like did you list like, you know,

15:59

you got the the hoods, the dice games,

16:01

the state, you got the alcoholics, drug addicts, all

16:03

of that. One thing

16:05

with me, and I take my time

16:07

speaking on this because I never discredit

16:10

the superhero that my mother was, you

16:12

get what I'm saying? A

16:14

lot of those elements, like most people

16:16

have to go down the street to see or

16:19

venture off or don't go over there, go to

16:21

places their parents, tell them don't go to see.

16:23

They were in the household with me, you know what

16:25

I'm saying? Like we would be watched

16:28

by my uncles, like my

16:30

uncles who are either alcoholic,

16:32

drug addict, you get what I'm saying?

16:34

This or that, like real deal drug

16:36

addicts, like not, you know, like yeah,

16:39

my grandmother's house directly across the street

16:41

from the crack houses. That's

16:43

what they call them, a crack house.

16:45

So it's, you know, drug addicts, prostitution,

16:48

24 seven. Like they're up

16:50

from, they're up four or five in the morning,

16:52

they're up the entire night, out the entire day,

16:55

roaming the streets, like a lot of these elements, they were

16:57

like right there. But at

16:59

the time, like growing up, it just seemed completely

17:02

normal to me. You know what I'm saying? Like

17:04

that's not the one. It's hard though, I mean,

17:06

it's hard. You know, it's interesting. I grew up

17:08

in a very religious household. Many of the views

17:10

that I held growing up were completely shaped by

17:12

that religion. Over time they've shifted and they've changed,

17:15

but that was the core of my foundation.

17:17

I also grew up in a very African

17:19

household. So those are some of the ideas

17:21

that I held and I maintained. And

17:24

it's interesting that you've now brought that up because you

17:27

have your dad from afar giving you

17:29

wisdom, contributing to your life, but he

17:32

is from afar. You

17:34

have your mom who's working all

17:37

day, all night to make your life just,

17:40

you know what it needs to be. Just keep meal,

17:42

yeah, just keep a roof over your head. And

17:46

unfortunately you're in an environment

17:49

where you're surrounded by

17:51

drugs, violence, alcohol. You

17:54

can name it, I mean, people can imagine it,

17:56

but when you're in it, it's a very different

17:58

experience. It's extremely different. There

18:00

are two types of responses to this. There

18:03

are people who will

18:06

crumble because of this, and there

18:08

are people who will become galvanized

18:10

by it, and they will fight within it. I

18:13

feel like you're the latter. I feel like you're

18:15

the kind of person who

18:17

saw opportunities and saw ways

18:19

to thrive within that world.

18:21

Absolutely. What was the first moment where this

18:24

is long before you're the baby? I mean, baby

18:27

Jesus, you're the little kid in the family. Even

18:30

with that, that name didn't come until much later.

18:33

So yeah, much later. That wasn't a childhood name. At

18:35

this point, you're still John. I was John John. You're

18:37

just John John. John John or Hard Chocolate was another

18:40

nickname. Hard Chocolate. Hard Chocolate. Okay, so you got John

18:42

John or Hard Chocolate. What

18:44

was the moment where the streets took

18:47

you? What was that life? What were you doing?

18:49

Where were you going? There's a moment where it

18:51

snaps. I remember the first time I had a...

18:54

What was my first encounter with the police? First

18:57

encounter with the police was my friends

18:59

and I had... We had like a

19:02

replica gun that we had with us. We

19:06

were thinking maybe we would be... I don't even know.

19:09

We were like, maybe we'll be gangsters. I don't know. Right.

19:13

I mean, we get arrested for throwing

19:15

block parties that were illegal. You

19:18

always remember your first... What was your first encounter with

19:20

the police? What was it about? What was happening in

19:22

your life? I don't even know if the police were

19:24

involved, but I remember I was in fourth grade,

19:27

third or

19:30

fourth grade, but I bought a pocket knife to school and

19:32

I was showing it off to some girl. You

19:34

know I bought a pocket knife. I got expelled for bringing a

19:36

knife to school. I'm so glad they expelled. Oh, I got expelled.

19:39

They suspended me for a day. That is wild. I

19:41

showed it to a girl and she told

19:43

them. They suspended me for a day. Oh,

19:46

I got expelled for that one. They didn't... The knife

19:48

was already gone when she told them. Thank God she

19:50

waited probably to the end of the day to tell

19:53

them. Because I probably would have got expelled too. That

19:56

would have messed up my little school

19:59

record. because I was straight

20:01

A's like all the

20:03

way until like High,

20:05

I mean nothing nothing less than a B for

20:07

sure. I didn't get a C till maybe high

20:10

school You know what? That is one of the

20:12

paradoxes So I don't know what it

20:14

was like growing up where you grew up where we grew up. I

20:17

Found there was a there was a conflict There

20:19

was a clash between the streets and school right

20:21

if you did well in school guys would be

20:23

like you're goofy You guys would say you're a

20:25

punk guys right and so there was almost this

20:27

element of you don't want to do well You

20:29

don't want to be perceived as somebody You

20:32

know who somebody can step up on somebody who can

20:34

write, you know take an advantage of it

20:36

You are a strange mix in that we're proud

20:38

of your straight A's. Yeah, but you're in the

20:40

streets as well What was there ever a moment

20:43

where? Violence came into your world.

20:45

Yeah, it was there it was it exists Oh,

20:47

this is just a daily thing It violence was

20:49

in my work was in my world is when

20:51

I'm three or four like I

20:54

see like my like it's in It's

20:56

in the household. I got to see my uncle fighting

20:58

each other My dad my brothers,

21:00

you know what I mean? Like with me like

21:03

every day like it was it was like that

21:05

like, you know I was a I

21:07

was the baby boy Like I was the

21:09

one I'd they'd lock me in the closet bang

21:11

on the doors I like it. Yeah act

21:13

like Jason's here to boogeyman's here these types of

21:15

things like it Yeah, like I

21:17

was I used to piss in the bed

21:20

because I was scared to get up to go to the bathroom

21:22

You know I'm saying like it was that type of thing. We're

21:24

all sharing a room but violence is yeah

21:26

It was it was very much there like why

21:28

my mom's out working all these long hard hours

21:30

like my brother He's but he's probably

21:33

10 at the time 2030

21:37

older kids in the house, you know I'm saying like

21:39

yeah, like A lot going on

21:41

here dead body growing up. I've definitely

21:43

been around that. Yes students and yeah all that

21:45

for sure The first

21:47

time death probably was around me

21:50

um a certain situation had happened

21:53

with one of my family members and And

21:56

I just remember it like it was yesterday that we were

21:58

like down and told

22:02

when you go to school because we're little kids. Yeah. You

22:04

don't speak about this to nobody. You

22:07

don't ever bring this up to anybody.

22:09

I literally never have. You know

22:11

what I'm saying? Like, you know what I mean? But that's the

22:13

first time I remember and I had to be maybe like, um,

22:16

how old was I? I think I was in middle school. I

22:19

don't think I was in elementary school. I think I was

22:21

in middle school because early in middle school. I

22:23

had to be like sixth grade, seventh grade. Mm-hmm.

22:26

Sixth grade, seventh grade. Do you think you had a

22:28

full comprehension? Do you think you had a full comprehension

22:30

of what that was? No, absolutely. Absolutely.

22:33

Yeah. Yeah, I knew exactly what that

22:35

was, but just in terms of violence, like... Were you scared ever?

22:38

I was scared all the time. Every day. But

22:40

as a child, you know what I mean? Like, my mom's not

22:42

at home. And so, and then, you know,

22:45

like elementary school kids, they get out of school

22:47

first. Yeah. So I had a house

22:49

kid like age six. I got to let

22:51

myself in, you know what I mean? Like, I come home

22:53

and let myself in a six-year-old. You

22:56

know what I'm saying? My daughter right now, being six

22:58

years old, I'm like, wow, like... I

23:00

come to see her. I was going through it. Oh, for

23:02

sure. And like I say, it didn't

23:04

feel like I was going through anything. It did. It very

23:06

much did, but it didn't. Like, this was just the norm.

23:08

I don't know anything outside of this, you know what I'm

23:11

saying? Right. But I say that to say, like, you know,

23:13

when my brothers would come home shortly after, they'd

23:15

come in, go right back outside. They'd leave me. Yeah.

23:18

You get what I'm saying? They'd go right back outside. So I'm

23:20

in the house. Like, that's probably one of the reasons why I'm

23:23

just so self-sufficient. I had to be. You

23:25

know what I mean? I had to be. Like,

23:27

I had no choice. Right. So many moments

23:29

where you're raising yourself. Yeah, absolutely. Because I'm

23:31

a student myself. I make my own food.

23:33

You know what I mean? All that. One

23:36

of my uncles, they have a story that they tell us where...

23:38

Because one of my uncles doesn't do drugs, right?

23:40

My uncle enjoys. He drinks. Doesn't

23:43

do hardcore drugs. But where

23:45

he tried to

23:47

beat one of my other uncles with a baseball bat

23:49

because he had me with him in

23:51

a crack house, smoking crack. Like,

23:53

he had me with him. I was like one, two

23:56

years old. You get what I'm saying? Like, these types of

23:58

things. Like, that's what I'm saying. come from and it

24:01

also helps me understand why I'm set up

24:03

the way I'm set up as a person. That's

24:06

fascinating that you have that

24:08

level of self-awareness to understand how

24:11

much of you has been shaped by the

24:13

world that you were in. And that's newly,

24:16

these are all things that I'm beginning to

24:18

notice within the past couple years. Okay.

24:21

How did most of this stuff when I come to sit

24:24

down with people, because I've never been to therapy. Is therapy

24:26

even, is that allowed in hip-hop? I utilize

24:28

my, yeah. I mean, several people recommend it

24:30

too. I believe it's something

24:34

that would be extremely healthy for me. That's

24:36

why I always lean towards interviews,

24:39

especially early on when I first

24:41

popped in the mainstream and when I

24:43

sit down with somebody, you'll

24:46

get so much more out of me than

24:48

probably the average person because I'd walk out

24:50

of the interviews like, damn. Those are stories

24:52

I've been waiting to tell. I almost got

24:54

about them. I get to take a break.

24:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You read them and then

24:58

you wait for them to ask you. That's what I did with myself. I

25:00

buried it. That's what I did. I

25:02

buried it. All those memories, like, that's what I

25:04

did. So I know how to like bury

25:07

things. Yeah, let me ask you this. As

25:09

somebody who grew up in a household, and I'm speaking about myself

25:11

now, I grew up in a household where there

25:13

was a lot of domestic violence. I

25:16

grew up around plenty of that. I grew

25:18

up plenty. You know, uncles who were violently

25:20

drunk. You

25:23

know, you just, you see it. You

25:25

go through phases. You're afraid. You're

25:27

terrified. You freeze. You know,

25:29

everything you're speaking about I can relate to. And

25:33

there's also one emotion that

25:36

you don't realize you're having because you don't have

25:38

the power to have it, and that is anger.

25:41

Right. Right. Suppressed

25:43

anger. Yeah, I can only imagine there was a

25:46

lot of suppressed anger inside you because you are

25:48

the baby. There's a lot of the time you

25:50

don't have control. Yeah, you got a sibling rivalry.

25:52

That's a whole different category. So you're dealing with

25:54

just brothers on their own, but now you're also

25:56

dealing with uncles. You're dealing with the streets. You're

25:58

dealing with the world. Brothers who are

26:00

angry about this same world that I'm living

26:03

in but they're actually older than me and

26:05

able to process it Yeah, so it's hitting

26:07

them. You know, I mean even harder

26:09

than right? How did you how did your anger

26:12

manifest out the support of a father? Uh-huh. That's

26:14

the difference to like I'm the baby boy. Yeah,

26:16

the one whose father is in his life Oh,

26:18

okay. Okay. So your brothers didn't have that. No,

26:20

oh Growing up like you can

26:22

see like you see the difference between me and

26:24

my brothers, you know, I'm saying Do you think

26:26

that was a fighting back to suicide? I'm 20

26:29

20 then when you say like I remember, you know Maybe

26:31

like five minutes ago in a conversation when you say, you

26:33

know, like some people they they

26:35

crumble worried Yeah, you know these

26:38

types of elements and in their

26:40

environment and just upbringing destroys

26:42

them like you see the difference like I

26:45

mean, you know what I mean how I dealt with it and

26:47

you know Like what I was able to blessed enough to be

26:49

able to turn it into as opposed to

26:51

you know Like it ultimately being like my brother's

26:53

demise, you know, right now Do you think your

26:56

dad was the defining fact absolutely you think that

26:58

made the difference? Absolutely What do

27:00

you think it was about your dad being in your

27:02

life even from a distance that made the difference? He's

27:05

always just putting something on my mind and

27:07

just showing me something different like always like

27:10

always and I don't you know I'm

27:12

gonna keep You

27:18

know I mean because she also has to allow him to

27:20

be able to do that like right mother has to Make

27:23

away for that to happen right? I'm saying like

27:25

she has to she has to know car your

27:27

father right now You know I'm saying like she what

27:30

was tell me the times I'd stray away from

27:32

it I got a little bit about your dad

27:34

though, like like what like what was his life

27:36

was in the army? Oh, he was in the

27:39

military. Oh, I mean when I was born. Oh,

27:41

this is an interesting Okay, I mean for like

27:43

10 years straight and see like injured his foot.

27:45

Yeah, he was at all those wars, Afghanistan Iraq

27:48

I'd get the pictures of him. I used to love

27:50

the pictures of him with the guns Uh-huh, I'd show

27:52

him off have him on my wall in my room.

27:54

I used to write him That's why I'm such a

27:56

good writer. I'd write him letters back and

27:58

forth when he was in the army He's really at war. I

28:00

had to communicate with him through letters, you

28:03

know what I'm saying? And he'd write me I'd write

28:05

him back as a child. I keep telling my mom

28:07

let him write me I write him

28:09

back. He like grade my papers like an

28:11

English professor like I Redline

28:13

it you know what I'm saying? Like have You

28:16

know like punctuation corrections everything throughout the paper

28:18

and he wouldn't even let me like use

28:21

slang and he's from that too He's from

28:23

Cleveland, Ohio, right? He's but he wanted me

28:25

to be when I'm with him. Yeah, no,

28:27

he'll he'll Relax a

28:29

little bit more with it and you know what

28:31

I mean? But while I'm over here, uh-huh mom's

28:34

because it's a whole different, you know, yeah,

28:36

it's a completely different cloth over here Yes,

28:38

ma'am. Yes, sir. Yeah, like he's like he's

28:40

very adamant on just making sure and it

28:43

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York, New York Your

30:07

music career is public. Your

30:09

music career is well known. So

30:11

I won't delve into that too much. What

30:14

I'd love to understand is behind the scenes. As

30:17

the baby, you start blowing up. Your

30:20

music starts growing. You start building

30:22

up a fan base. You start

30:24

making money. You start experiencing success.

30:28

What confuses me is how

30:30

violence still stays a part of

30:32

your world. This is

30:34

something I've learned changes depending on where you're from

30:36

and the hood that you're in

30:39

is how you respond to conflict

30:41

and how conflict is expected to be

30:44

dealt with. In

30:48

South Africa, we have different hoods. So we

30:50

have like, Alexandra was one township and then

30:52

Soweto is where my grandmother's from and you

30:55

have Timbisa, etc. And we'd even know we'd

30:57

go like, oh, cats from that hood,

30:59

they'll stab you. Cats from this hood will break

31:01

a bottle on your head. Cats from this hood

31:04

will shoot you. We'll even say

31:06

those guys shoot. Those guys, but

31:08

you almost know what type of

31:10

violence is either expected or probably

31:13

going to happen to you in those worlds.

31:15

It feels like the world you were in

31:17

was a gun environment, right? It

31:19

was all the above. It was all of the

31:21

above. Absolutely. So when you when you're

31:23

growing up, do you think

31:26

to yourself, all right, there is only one

31:28

way I can defend myself. Do you know

31:30

that there is an ultimate conclusion or like

31:32

how does the baby exist in this world

31:35

trying to be you whilst acknowledging that you're still

31:37

in Charlotte and you're still because you're successful. You're

31:40

an artist. The baby like yes, in early on.

31:42

Yeah, not as a child, but as an adult.

31:44

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

31:46

one night I was

31:48

getting ready to go to the club. I didn't go. Everybody

31:50

else went. I'm like, I'm tired. I'm asleep. I

31:53

hear the door gate. I hear I don't even know

31:55

this until after the fact I hear people screaming. That's

31:57

what I feel like when I jumped up. I

32:00

hear people screaming, where's that? Get down, get

32:02

down, where's that shit like that? You know what I

32:04

mean? And I immediately grab my

32:06

gun, come out around the corner, see

32:08

like six people with masks and guns. You

32:10

know what I'm saying? They're looking through the boxes.

32:12

I had like different posters with different

32:15

pictures. Like I had all my promo material out like

32:17

in the front. Yeah. It's

32:19

like a condo type of apartment where it

32:21

has stairs in it and you can come

32:23

in the garage from the top, but you

32:26

don't know that. If you come through the

32:28

front door down here, that type of situation,

32:30

maybe three, four bedrooms, me and my brother

32:33

were both staying there. And

32:35

I come around the corner and it's like maybe, yeah,

32:38

like six people, you know what I mean? With masks on,

32:40

this is like, you know, two in

32:42

the morning, two, three in the morning,

32:44

maybe like six people with masks on and guns creeping

32:46

around the corner. Some of them looking through the boxes

32:49

with the posters. The closest person

32:51

when I turned the corner was, as

32:53

close as me and you are. Yeah. Yeah, when I

32:55

turned the corner welding a gun, you know what I'm

32:57

saying? Creeping like having it down low. I'm

33:00

the same way when I turned the corner, boom,

33:02

shoot. Spin back around

33:05

the corner because I'm completely outgunned like

33:07

it's, like I immediately

33:09

see, you know, as soon as I turned

33:11

the corner, it's several bodies in here, all

33:14

in all black, all got masks on, all of them got

33:16

guns. Turn the corner, shots just right, boom, boom,

33:18

boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom,

33:20

boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. I go out through the

33:22

top and open the garage to where, because the side

33:24

street to where you, yeah, walk through

33:26

the grass and the side walk into the front door. If

33:28

I come up through the top and I come out the

33:31

garage, if I look to the left, it's literally like right

33:33

there. I just cut through some grass, it's right there. And

33:35

I can hear them, you hear it, you hear it somebody,

33:37

you hear it and they jump in the car, pull off.

33:39

You know what I mean? That's the first incident, but whatever,

33:41

like it's Charlotte, it's normal. You

33:43

see, you say, but whatever. And this is sort of, this is sort

33:45

of what I'm trying to understand and

33:47

what I'm trying to get to is, I

33:51

hear you, but whatever. But

33:53

it's also not whatever. Do you know what

33:55

I mean? Like what I mean by this

33:57

is like a few things. You

34:01

know you hear the commotion you hear what's going

34:03

on you grab your gun What what I wonder

34:05

sometimes Whether you

34:07

think about your life because I try and think this

34:09

about my life And I think many of us don't

34:11

is how abnormal some of our normal actually is You

34:14

know the fact that you think there's a possibility

34:16

this is happening You know right baby's not walking

34:18

down the stairs going like hello is anybody there

34:20

you know what I mean you're going Yeah, you're

34:22

immediately going. I said I know what it is.

34:24

I got woke me up and put

34:26

my hand on my gun Well there you go get out there

34:29

type right on them So that tells me the kind of world

34:31

that you're living absolutely think that that's a possibility You

34:34

know the fact that you you you then go

34:36

through the motions the way you do Tells

34:39

me that this is a world where you

34:41

believe that it's a possibility absolutely day in

34:43

and day out once Let's

34:45

say post that event There's

34:48

trauma. There's this fear. There's everything obviously

34:50

you have the fight or flight so

34:52

fight kicks in first Yes, but

34:55

there's got to be a moment where you go I'm

34:58

not safe or there's got to be like the

35:00

world. You got a bullet the return gunfire. Just

35:02

missed me You know I'm

35:04

saying you just miss me. I feel like

35:07

the difference with me like I

35:09

don't you know it in

35:11

terms of How

35:13

do I deal with violence? I'm supposed to how people

35:15

expect me to deal with violence like

35:19

You know and my upbringing is like

35:21

your only option is to you

35:23

know defend yourself, right? so you

35:25

have this world where you Genuinely

35:28

believe and maybe validly so

35:30

that anytime anything can happen

35:33

Anyone can step up to you anyone wants to test

35:35

you anyone this this is an environment that I even

35:37

necessarily test like and so what I'm what I'm trying

35:39

to understand and trying to get to in your world

35:42

is is is Sort

35:45

of an understanding of this because you see what you just

35:47

said now is interesting. It is not a test You're dealing

35:49

with very real situations Do

35:51

you in this moment in time do you feel like

35:53

you're a safe individual do you feel like you're like

35:55

you you feel like You're beyond it now Never

35:58

no I can walk outside right now and

36:01

anything can happen to anybody. But who would anything be

36:03

and who would anybody and I mean this honestly. There's

36:05

no way like I you know I'd have no way

36:07

of knowing. Huh. I got to literally have no way

36:09

of knowing. But would it be the streets coming

36:11

back or would it be what like what is it?

36:14

What makes somebody do something

36:16

wrong? It doesn't necessarily

36:18

have to have anything to do with you. You

36:20

know what I mean? Somebody could be having a bad day and

36:23

you know and step and trip over

36:25

your foot accidentally on the way in the store

36:27

and then they come in and turn around and

36:29

kill you. It turns into you know what I mean? A

36:31

fight or a life a life a death

36:33

situation. You know what I'm saying? Let me ask you this

36:35

though. Based upon what you

36:37

see is a beautiful segue to this

36:41

question. You

36:43

are a parent and you're

36:45

a proud parent. Absolutely. You

36:47

talk about being a father. You talk about what it means to

36:49

you. It's my favorite thing to be. Oh yeah? And

36:55

there is there is a you know there

36:57

is a valid argument that it is about

36:59

the environment and it is the world that you're in. What

37:02

is the world that you want to see that you're

37:05

creating for your child? Like

37:07

what like what is what is that world? And how

37:09

different or how

37:12

do you make that world different? You know because I'm

37:14

assuming I'm assuming you don't want your daughter knowing that

37:16

as a reality. I'm assuming you don't want your daughter

37:18

thinking of that as a possibility. Not necessarily. You want

37:21

it to be aware of it. Absolutely. And that's the

37:23

word I was going right. Like it's just being aware

37:25

of the world that exists in which she

37:27

already is. Like when you know

37:29

when when I got into the situation and a guy

37:31

was shot and killed in Walmart by me my daughter

37:34

was right there. She's

37:36

right there. One year old. How

37:38

did she process that? She didn't. She

37:41

didn't. Her she probably doesn't even

37:43

remember her older brother. Definitely. I

37:45

hardly remembers it. You know I'm saying he's

37:47

she's one so he had to be what

37:50

five at the time. Yeah he's her age. He

37:53

was a year younger than what she is now. If she saw

37:55

it now she would definitely remember it. Like right. Right. I

37:58

mean of course I guess completely. traumatizing like it's yeah

38:00

I know how do you how do you speak to

38:03

your kids about that you know what do you say

38:05

oh that that situation for real no no now immediately

38:07

after like yeah like we I just pay very

38:10

close attention to him you know I mean I've

38:12

definitely had a conversation with her older brother my

38:14

daughter wasn't even really talking at

38:16

the time she was but it's like you know with

38:19

your son though what's the conversation it's just

38:21

more so just checking on him seeing how

38:24

he himself processed

38:26

it not telling him how to process it you

38:28

know I mean okay I'm not telling him how

38:30

to process it and you know thank God he

38:32

was one hour over from me and

38:34

he didn't actually see it right so

38:36

he hears boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom

38:39

and sees an entire you know

38:41

Walmart store evacuate yeah you know a fire

38:43

alarms going off the little siren going off

38:45

like he sees it you know I mean

38:47

he sees may have he hears the conversations

38:49

immediately after when I come back over to

38:51

check on them yeah like he sees it

38:53

all you know I mean he hears he's

38:56

very aware like he hears people talk about

38:58

it of course like so then it's like

39:00

what happened in Walmart like what yeah that

39:02

I mean that's what I attempted to do

39:04

originally was de escalated situation with my words

39:06

but that isn't you know what

39:08

the with the opposing side of the situation that

39:11

isn't what they wanted they had different intentions and

39:13

that you know that just goes back to like

39:15

what I'm saying like you never know like I'm

39:17

a Walmart buying diapers and you know but you

39:19

don't you don't know for like right no help

39:21

no from a can of paint I'm

39:23

a Walmart just buying did shop do they know

39:25

you baby shampoo shit like the absolute yeah

39:28

they know me from being the rapper from

39:30

our city like the rapper

39:32

okay okay okay so that altercation

39:35

starts off because this person is

39:37

curious as to what they see

39:40

you know somebody that has something going on you

39:43

know like from the environment I'm from the city I'm

39:45

from yeah the person who has something going on it's

39:47

like fucking like he like

39:49

it's immediately I remember saying like

39:52

a biggie interview reason you're

39:54

growing up like we'll see the person drive by with

39:56

like the nice car yeah yeah did you're in this

39:58

fuck that nigga I kill that nigga dangerous

42:00

than I know you know I mean there you

42:02

go it costs several rappers their life right you

42:04

know I mean time and time again right I'm

42:06

gonna ask you a question that may

42:08

be ignorant but I know a lot of people

42:10

will ask it because they're not familiar with the

42:12

world a lot of people would say but the

42:15

baby why don't you leave that world

42:17

why don't you go live in another neighborhood

42:19

right just escape it all there's no shootings

42:21

in Westchester debate there's no shootings in my

42:23

part of Connecticut why don't you escape that

42:25

world what would you how would you respond

42:27

to that question I hadn't made it out

42:29

of the city yet okay yeah yeah okay

42:32

well there you go place like I had

42:34

made it out of the city but

42:36

you know to to put

42:38

into perspective like I've

42:41

been you know in in the

42:43

middle of shooting incidents on

42:46

Collins Avenue on Miami Beach I

42:49

hear you see what I'm saying like that is where

42:51

you want to move to like man that's what I'm

42:53

saying like it's like you never you

42:55

never know you you know when violence is

42:58

right there in front of you like yeah

43:00

you simply don't know it's all about the

43:02

type of day somebody's having or the way

43:04

it's more so about how you move throughout

43:06

these different environments right now I'm saying that's

43:08

what it's all about it's about knowing how

43:11

to move no matter you know where you're

43:13

at you know but when you have the

43:15

the magnifying glass on you that that artists

43:17

or entertainers have especially rappers right you know

43:19

it just it

43:21

comes with the world of people who

43:24

who feel like that is for this

43:26

type of person what makes him deserve

43:29

that and they

43:31

immediately you know they feel entitled to what

43:33

you have going on or entitled to they

43:36

feel entitled to the idea

43:38

of you having to go through everything

43:40

they're going through in order to in

43:43

person that space yeah yeah it's like

43:45

you know and that's where you get

43:47

situations where like people are willing to

43:49

come you know approach a guy with

43:51

his two kids and their mother in

43:54

a grocery store and in Walmart right you

43:56

know what I mean with with no intent

43:58

like you know it It'd make more sense

44:01

to me if they thought I had a large

44:03

amount of money on me or some jewelry and they were

44:05

attempting to rob me. This guy

44:07

just died for nothing. You get what I'm saying?

44:09

Because his friend, and that's what I'm saying, it's

44:11

about knowing how to move. And a lot of

44:13

times it's about the people that you got with

44:16

you. You know what I'm saying? Because that guy

44:18

died for his friend that night. Because

44:20

his friend approached me. You know what I'm saying? His

44:22

friend was the catalyst of the situation. Were

44:25

you sad that he lost his life knowing

44:27

– because it feels like you have a

44:29

certain level of understanding for his world. It

44:31

was sad, but yeah, it was definitely

44:33

sad. Was I sad? I

44:36

can't sit here and honestly say I was sad. I just

44:39

– I became more aware of

44:41

– I was reminded

44:43

once again. It was more like reassurance that,

44:45

hey, you never know what's going to happen.

44:47

And you have to be prepared. You know

44:50

what I mean? Had I not been prepared,

44:52

had I not been legally

44:55

possessing a firearm, you get what I'm saying? Had

44:58

I not been prepared, I would have

45:00

had a gun pulled out on me, my

45:03

one-year-old daughter, a four-year-old brother,

45:05

their mother. And then

45:07

I would have just been at the mercy of however they're

45:09

feeling or whatever they decide to do. And

45:11

these are people who clearly don't walk around making good

45:13

decisions, you get what I'm saying? But

45:15

that's what I would have been left with. And

45:19

ultimately, most importantly, I would have been left

45:21

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prizepix.com/trevor. It's

47:02

what you said about moving between

47:04

worlds. You said you move from

47:07

one world to another, not

47:09

realizing that you don't understand the other world. And

47:12

there's a level of ignorance that you move into

47:14

it with. DaBaby

47:17

blows up in hip-hop, becomes

47:20

an icon, becomes somebody who's setting

47:22

trends. You know, you're not just

47:24

a music maker. You're a

47:26

trend creator. You

47:29

then accelerate that growth

47:31

into a world where you are now on

47:34

mainstream media, the SNLs, the Rolling Stones.

47:36

You're on covers. The Grammy's with you.

47:39

The Grammy's with me. You're in this world.

47:42

Six nominations. Doing your thing, right?

47:45

And all

47:47

of that comes to a halt. A

47:49

lot of it, because not all of it really. A lot of

47:51

it comes to a halt when one day you're on stage. And

47:55

in the middle of a performance, you

47:58

start saying things to the crowd. Mm-hmm,

48:01

you know about AIDS and gay

48:03

people and and and I mean you just in

48:06

As I would say it with friends if I was talking

48:08

colloquially, I'd be like just shooting off at the mouth just

48:10

you know, you're just going and That

48:15

sets into effect a

48:17

series of dominoes So

48:30

let's let's let's break this down in steps and in stages

48:40

You know because when things are happening to us They

48:42

often happen so fast that we cannot process

48:44

what is happening and I think from the public's

48:46

point of view oftentimes People consume

48:48

something and then there's another story and then you

48:50

move on and there's no real processing of anything

48:53

right? So let's start with

48:55

the actual incident. You're on stage You

48:57

know you go into this moment with

48:59

the audience where you're saying these things What

49:02

was your intention in that moment? Just to

49:04

have everybody do exactly what they did just to put their

49:06

cell phone lights up and you know Create

49:09

a transitional moment. And yeah, you know

49:11

in my set in my performance Why

49:14

is it why do you think you said what you

49:16

said? What do you think came from? I mean it

49:18

what I said was I mean it was I said

49:20

it so naturally and without any ill intent but at

49:22

the same time like You know

49:24

on hindsight definitely and it didn't even have to be

49:26

that far behind for it to be on hindsight Yeah,

49:29

I learned immediately like you know,

49:31

I'm speaking I'm speaking

49:33

the way I'm speaking ignorant to the way that

49:35

it'll be perceived with me being the person who

49:37

I've grown and worked to be You

49:40

know what I'm saying? Like it because you know It's

49:43

not like I say, it's completely

49:45

unintentional like and not once

49:47

did I even mention, you know a

49:49

gay person I didn't even say anything

49:51

about a gay person. I'd mentioned if you

49:54

don't have AIDS fellas. I said if

49:56

you didn't Perform or sex on

49:58

somebody in the parking lot, right? put

50:00

a cellphone light up. All these are

50:02

just things to somewhat

50:05

get you, not somewhat, to very much so get

50:07

you to just put a cellphone light up. And

50:09

which literally everybody

50:12

did. Like I don't, you know, everybody did.

50:14

So this is what I'm trying to get.

50:17

Everybody there. That's what exactly, that's what

50:19

I'm trying to get at you. And that's the disconnect. Yes,

50:21

exactly. But I'm just in a space to where I'm not

50:23

making excuses for it. No, no, no. And

50:25

I just feel like I just should have been so much more aware

50:27

of the fact, first of all, that it's being live streamed. Right.

50:30

And you know that this can potentially

50:32

be used as, you know, used

50:35

as a vessel to just paint my

50:37

character or assassinate my character or

50:39

just paint it a certain way. You know what I

50:42

mean? And it wasn't what it was. But in

50:45

terms of like how I responded to it, and I

50:47

think that was the most, I think

50:49

that was more detrimental than what I said itself.

50:52

The way I responded to the backlash that I got.

50:54

You know what I mean? The early backlash. Right. And

50:57

I love it. Like I kind of like took it

50:59

as a joke. Like this got to be a joke. You

51:01

know what I'm saying? Like I'm like, this can't be like

51:03

y'all don't think like, you know what I'm saying? Like, oh,

51:05

this is just another attempt to, you know what I mean?

51:08

For the media to, you know, to

51:10

knock me off of this pedal stool that

51:12

they feel like I'm on. This felt minuscule

51:14

to me. Like this didn't feel like

51:17

something they needed to be, you know,

51:19

responded to from a

51:21

place of me being worried.

51:24

Like I felt like I felt

51:26

like the second I say

51:29

no, that's not what I meant. Like that should

51:31

have been understood and boom. Or if you were

51:33

there, you get what I'm saying? Like

51:35

I feel like they should. Well, let's take a step

51:37

back then maybe and go through each thing. Okay. If

51:41

you have grown up in hip-hop, I

51:43

will be honest. I will be a person who says this

51:45

and maybe this will now bounce back on me. But I'll

51:47

be honest. No, no, no, but I'll say this in

51:50

hip-hop, there's a lot of language that

51:52

is used. There are a lot of ideas that are

51:54

used. That absolutely is like, it's like surface level. And

51:56

we have to admit is also homophobic. There's a lot

51:58

of homophobia in racism. And I'm not trying

52:00

to make you solve all of that. I want

52:03

to talk to the baby, not everybody about everything.

52:05

Because I think you're one individual who is part

52:07

of something. But

52:09

you can't deny whether it's black

52:11

community in Africa and North

52:14

America. And I mean

52:16

even the white community. Oftentimes

52:18

black people get singled out. But

52:21

I feel like homophobia is something that has been

52:23

rampant throughout time and then slowly has been

52:25

evolving over the past maybe two decades really

52:27

in our lifetimes. You're looking from the 80s

52:30

to now. There's been a huge

52:32

jump and it's still not complete. Absolutely. But in

52:34

that moment it feels like to me, correct me

52:36

if I'm wrong, but it feels like to me

52:38

you're on stage, you're saying something

52:40

that feels reflexively funny and

52:43

just like engaging with the audience that they, because as

52:45

you said they engage with you right? Absolutely. They engage

52:47

with you in this moment. You're having a

52:49

good time. It does

52:51

go outside of that bubble, right?

52:53

And as you said now, you're aware of

52:55

the context outside of that.

52:59

People then say to you, DaBaby,

53:02

you're homophobic, DaBaby you hate gay people. Why would

53:04

you parrot these ideas? Yeah, it was that part.

53:06

People speak out, people speak out. I

53:09

understand you were offended. I understand that you

53:12

were hurt. Nobody wants to be labeled as something that they

53:14

don't see themselves as. But was

53:16

there also a part of you that understood why

53:18

people were saying that? At

53:22

the time, at the

53:24

time, no. Okay. I

53:27

was, you know, I literally did not

53:29

understand. I made it clear that I didn't

53:31

understand. You get what I'm saying? Like because

53:33

it's, you know, in my videographer that works

53:35

very close to me, right? He was going

53:37

through just the hard drives. I've been recording

53:39

my entire journey since I got serious about

53:41

it. And he's like, bro, I'm watching it.

53:43

And you said the same thing

53:45

before at a show. I said it before

53:48

at a show, right? When I'm on tour, but I'm not the

53:50

top streaming artist in the world. I'm not the top

53:52

streaming rapper in the world at the time. You get

53:54

what I'm saying? So, you know,

53:57

I think that's the difference. Like I got so many, I got.

54:00

completely new world of

54:02

people who look up to me. You know what I'm

54:04

saying? Who's important to me. You know what

54:06

I mean? Who buy my music. You know what I

54:08

mean? Who, you know, they're like they

54:11

literally look up to me. I'm probably what they put.

54:13

I probably, my music has probably helped them get through

54:15

certain situations. You know what I'm saying? What have you.

54:18

You know what I mean? And I'm unaware of

54:20

that. You know what I'm saying? I'm aware of it, but

54:22

I'm unaware of the way that, you know, certain

54:24

things that I would normally say that wouldn't

54:27

even, you know, not even normally say like

54:29

that's, you know. No, no, no, but I

54:31

think, I think look. And I would say it

54:33

and look at it. Yeah, but I mean, I think we

54:35

have to be honest about that. That's why I think we

54:37

won't get far and not just the two of us, but

54:39

I think in society, the reason I don't think we get

54:41

far with a lot of these conversations is because we're not

54:43

honest enough about. So to

54:46

say that the baby is an outlier, I think is a

54:48

dishonesty. But to say that what the

54:50

baby did is good is not. It's like, for me,

54:52

it becomes a symptom. It goes like, oh shit, that

54:54

thing now got exposed to the world. Now it's like,

54:56

okay, all right. The baby showed a little bit of

54:58

his world to the outside world, a bigger world than

55:00

he normally does. And now he's dealing

55:02

with those ramifications. It sounds to me like

55:05

you are stepping into a world where

55:07

you're understanding this. Yeah, for sure. Yeah,

55:10

for sure. Now, for sure. But now

55:12

here's the thing I want to know from you on a personal

55:14

level. And maybe it's too personal. And if it is, forgive me.

55:16

But do you think

55:18

that your experiences since then have

55:22

helped you understand? Do you feel like you're

55:24

becoming more tolerant? Or do

55:26

you think you've been more defensive? This is just you

55:28

as a human being. I'd love to know how you've

55:30

responded to the criticism or how you felt. As

55:33

the baby, what do you want to be more of now

55:35

that you're on the other side of that? What do I

55:37

want to be more? So which? Because

55:39

you're saying you didn't think it was homophobic at the time

55:41

when you said this, right? Yeah, for

55:43

sure. Right? No,

55:46

you didn't even take all the way up until now. Over

55:49

a year ago, I get it. When

55:54

I see how

55:57

detrimental it was to my career and my

55:59

journey. everything that I worked that hard for. Just

56:02

when I see the amount of

56:04

manpower being put behind, you

56:06

know what I'm saying? Just shining a

56:09

light on this narrative, I see, wait,

56:11

no, that was in what I

56:13

say is impactful. But what

56:15

I'm saying is, do you see the impact that

56:17

it has on members of the

56:19

gay community who make many of them a fan

56:22

of you? Do you also see that? Absolutely, I

56:24

see it, you know what I'm saying? I see

56:26

it and all together, I'm

56:30

ignorant to the fact at the time. You know

56:33

what I'm saying? Ignorant to the fact. First of

56:35

all, it's, you know, I

56:37

didn't intend to offend anybody. That's the first

56:39

step. And then, you know, once I did

56:41

okay, understand, okay, wait, I offended people, I'm

56:45

ignorant to like, you know,

56:47

how I offended them. I know you're offended,

56:49

you know what I'm saying? Like immediately after you

56:52

give them a plan. And I know, I didn't

56:54

mean that, but like how much I offended them

56:56

or like how impactful like, you know, something

56:58

that I say is, you know what I mean? At

57:00

this level that I've worked, and that's the thing. I

57:03

didn't wake up in there like, okay, look, you're a role

57:05

model, you're the face of hip hop right now. Like

57:08

I was literally down there the face of hip hop, you know

57:10

what I'm saying? But you know, like,

57:13

I wasn't aware of how

57:15

impactful like my words can be. Cause

57:18

I say, and you know, and this

57:20

is not an excuse. This

57:22

isn't me deflecting or anything, but like that

57:26

on that stage, I also said something

57:28

about probably a shooting or

57:30

this or that, but that wasn't, you

57:33

know, like that's not perceived

57:35

that way. You get what I'm saying? So I

57:37

kind of like, that's

57:39

just me offering like an example of

57:41

how somebody can get why I didn't

57:43

immediately get how. Actually, let's go into

57:45

that. Cause that is interesting. Do

57:48

you feel like people take the shooting,

57:50

let's say if you talk about shootings, if you

57:53

talk about, you know, anything like violence

57:55

or anything like that, do you think people take that with

57:57

a grain of salt, but then they take the homophobia as

57:59

being truth? Like they go like, oh, yeah, and I

58:01

won't even put homophobia on you Like they'll go like all

58:03

those statements they go like that's your truth But then the

58:05

other stuff is you just messing around you is that what

58:07

you say you feel? Absolutely. That's

58:09

what I know. I mean, it's you

58:11

know, I'm a walking example of that Mm-hmm, you know I'm saying

58:14

cuz it's like, you know, it's okay for me to say these

58:16

types of things But this is like, yeah, no Like

58:18

I wouldn't dare right even say anything

58:21

remotely close to it now like in

58:23

private or public Like I don't you

58:26

know I'm saying cuz it's like You

58:28

know my entire world was shifted by that, you

58:30

know what I mean the public knows Oftentimes

58:33

how it wants to flog somebody the public

58:35

knows how it wants to punish somebody Right,

58:38

I find the public doesn't often know how

58:40

it wants to reconcile with somebody right? I

58:42

would like to know from your perspective a

58:45

do you feel like People

58:48

engaged with you on a level and this is

58:50

like everybody from inside the industry from outside Do

58:52

you feel like people engaged with you on a

58:54

level human to human where they helped you understand

58:56

and then be? Do you feel like

58:58

there was ever a path to redemption for you to like

59:00

change and grow or do you feel like it was? The

59:02

baby you're cut off. This is who you are and you're

59:04

done The

59:11

Like it was more so like no you're done

59:14

You know I'm saying type of thing now

59:16

the difference is like You know

59:18

you got one or two decisions to make to let

59:20

you know I mean a mistake to find you or

59:22

to you know put in the work necessary to you

59:24

know Change the narrative bits and bits and pieces at

59:27

a time right sound like it is what it is

59:29

It's you know I don't I

59:31

don't feel entitled to and

59:33

this this goes back to earlier in our conversation It's a

59:35

beautiful thing. I was always taught

59:37

to not Never look

59:40

for sympathy never look to make somebody

59:42

feel sorry for you Yeah, so that

59:44

just goes to like my reaction to

59:48

It taken you know the turn that it did you know

59:50

the term for the worst that it did like I Have

59:53

added instill in me that you know you

59:55

don't make people feel sorry. Yeah,

59:57

you know no matter what you go through I

1:00:01

hear you that can almost heighten, people

1:00:06

can look at that as ignorance or

1:00:09

arrogance as opposed to me

1:00:11

just being the person that

1:00:14

I was raised to be, you know what I'm

1:00:16

saying? That I have to go through experiences like

1:00:18

that to understand, okay, look, sometimes you might need

1:00:21

to do that immediately, you get what I'm

1:00:23

saying? I know that now. Yeah, I

1:00:25

learned something new. In a way, you took the

1:00:27

whipping, essentially. Oh yeah, for sure. Right,

1:00:30

when I used to get whoopings,

1:00:32

I couldn't cry. It doesn't stop until you,

1:00:34

stop crying. You keep

1:00:36

crying, boom, boom, but it's stop crying. So this

1:00:38

is what, when I get a whoop, I

1:00:41

gotta take my lick and I carry on. You get

1:00:43

what I'm saying? That's what I do. In

1:00:46

that situation, that was looked at as a,

1:00:48

he doesn't care, he's that much worse than

1:00:50

a person like that type of thing. You

1:00:52

get what I'm saying? When it's really like, I

1:00:55

care enough to keep going. That's

1:00:57

what somebody has to understand like that. It's

1:01:00

very few, they care the way I care. Well,

1:01:02

that's what I was saying. That

1:01:04

ends people, they'll never be sitting across the table

1:01:06

from you. Exactly, and that's actually, you see,

1:01:08

it's funny you said that, because that's exactly

1:01:10

what I said to the team, is

1:01:13

I said, what intrigues me about DaBaby

1:01:15

is this. He has

1:01:17

every opportunity to stay immersed in

1:01:19

a world that will fully accept

1:01:21

everything that he has done. Absolutely.

1:01:24

And yet he keeps on insisting on

1:01:26

trying to both explain, reconcile, and deal

1:01:28

with what has happened, and that

1:01:30

intrigues me. And so now you've explained that to me as

1:01:33

a person. Before I let you go though,

1:01:37

I'd love to know where you go from here. What

1:01:39

now? Some

1:01:43

of them came around. You had

1:01:45

a song on the billboard, Hot 100. You're

1:01:48

still making good music. You're still a fantastic artist.

1:01:50

Thank you so much. I hope for you as

1:01:52

a human being genuinely that you'll continue to grow.

1:01:54

I do think you should look into therapy. No,

1:01:56

for sure. From one brother to another. No, for

1:01:58

sure. I promise you it'll change. I've been

1:02:00

on I've been I'll share this

1:02:02

with you real quick before before I ask you about the future

1:02:05

is um So my

1:02:07

mother was shot by my stepfather, right?

1:02:09

She survived. Thank God but

1:02:12

one of the biggest things I regret it and I always talk to

1:02:14

my mom about this is The fact

1:02:16

that myself and my two younger brothers

1:02:19

never went to therapy to deal with it, right? My

1:02:21

youngest brother was I don't know maybe Six

1:02:24

years old when it happened Mistakenly

1:02:26

my mom thought he doesn't fully process

1:02:28

and understand it. How were you? I was

1:02:31

20 I

1:02:33

was in my 20s. Okay, I was in my 20s maybe

1:02:36

even touching 30 ever 20s I

1:02:38

think late 20s and then the middle brother the one who

1:02:40

drove my mom to the hospital. He was he was a

1:02:42

teenager at the time and One

1:02:46

of honestly one of my greatest regrets is that

1:02:48

we didn't know at the time How

1:02:50

powerful and impactful therapy could be in helping

1:02:53

us not just deal with but unearth some

1:02:55

of the traumas that we hadn't dealt with

1:02:57

You know some of the anger some of the fears some

1:03:00

of them, you know, and it don't get me wrong It's

1:03:02

a scary thing. It's a crazy thing and also therapy has

1:03:04

a stigma attached to it, you know But I personally as

1:03:06

a human being I would encourage it for you and

1:03:08

especially your kids Because you seem like

1:03:11

the kind of dad who wants them to have ten times

1:03:13

what you had, you know You want you want her to

1:03:15

have all the A's? Yes, I honestly believe that and

1:03:17

so I'd love to know Where you

1:03:19

go from here what now for the baby

1:03:21

so professional with me the next

1:03:23

step would definitely be venturing into film

1:03:27

Into film and television for sure that's something I've been

1:03:29

passionate about From the

1:03:31

get-go really from the beginning maybe even before the

1:03:33

music, you know what I'm saying? And and

1:03:36

you know what I what I bring it's like the

1:03:38

same thing that gives me Somewhat

1:03:40

of I won't even say the upper hand

1:03:42

but a different perspective or an interesting perspective

1:03:44

Can't be found anywhere else is my life

1:03:47

experiences now that I've been able to you

1:03:49

know I mean navigate through and

1:03:51

these are like a lot of the things that

1:03:53

I implemented like my music videos from day one

1:03:56

You know all the way until now to where I

1:03:58

have other artists and major ladies reaching

1:04:00

out to me to direct videos or you

1:04:03

know what I mean? Artists that are signed to major

1:04:05

labels and things of that nature. I got people who

1:04:08

have the top rated television

1:04:10

shows and filmmakers

1:04:13

like there, they can't wait for

1:04:15

me to give them what

1:04:18

I got going on inside of this burning mind. So

1:04:20

that's what I'm on and not only that, just

1:04:24

solidifying a safe space for

1:04:26

my kids to somewhat be you

1:04:28

know, somewhat because they're, I mean, my

1:04:31

kids have pretty much been born into this, right? You

1:04:33

know what I mean? They've been around it like my

1:04:35

daughter, my daughter can

1:04:37

direct like she, you let

1:04:39

her make a TikTok like her perspective

1:04:41

is just like she's amazing. You know

1:04:44

what I mean? She's musically inclined like,

1:04:47

you know, like it's just amazing.

1:04:49

Like she's an amazing, amazing little

1:04:51

girl. But it's just, you

1:04:53

know, making sure that while I'm

1:04:55

here, which I've been doing from day

1:04:57

one, but you know, literally like solidifying

1:04:59

like, you know, a position for her

1:05:01

to do because she's grown old enough,

1:05:03

you know, for me to begin to

1:05:05

see the things that she loves early

1:05:07

on. And she, you know, I got

1:05:09

something very, very special coming up with

1:05:11

me and my daughter. Did

1:05:14

I just know, I don't even care how the

1:05:16

world feels about it. Like because

1:05:19

she's in love with the idea and I'm in love

1:05:21

with it. And you know, we get to do, you

1:05:23

know, we get to do something, you know,

1:05:26

at a high level, you know, together. So

1:05:28

that's going to be beautiful. Like I'm so

1:05:30

excited about that. So excited about that therapy.

1:05:32

You know what I mean? That's definitely something.

1:05:34

Conversation like this is therapeutic. When

1:05:37

I sit across from people like you, you know,

1:05:39

I already know, OK, boom, that's going to be

1:05:41

a therapy session. I

1:05:43

love it. You know what I mean? I

1:05:45

just love people who have compelling conversation and

1:05:47

who come from a place, especially you, like

1:05:49

the more I talk to you and just

1:05:51

knowing like you know, your real life experiences

1:05:53

and you know, things that you've been through,

1:05:55

you can understand my perspective and you know,

1:05:57

my setup as a person in my. character

1:06:00

from a place that a lot of people

1:06:02

just simply can't. I always felt like that's

1:06:04

my purpose. I feel like the way my

1:06:06

career has played out thus far is that's

1:06:09

exactly how it was supposed to happen. Right.

1:06:12

Because even at

1:06:14

the time, with this and me as a

1:06:16

person, that's very big, the therapy and just

1:06:18

finding the outlet for all of the feelings

1:06:21

and emotions and experiences.

1:06:23

I'm suppressed this entire time. Because

1:06:25

even during the fact, okay, I'm the top streaming artist

1:06:28

in the world. You

1:06:30

know, one of the go-to live performers. You

1:06:34

know what I'm saying? Yeah, definitely. Top

1:06:36

of the ... You know what I mean? The full chain. But

1:06:39

I also ... My

1:06:41

brother just killed himself in front of

1:06:43

his daughter. You know what I mean? Just

1:06:46

months before then. You know what I'm saying? Left

1:06:48

four kids. Right. You know what I'm

1:06:50

saying? So it's like I'm ...

1:06:52

And I'm the head of the family.

1:06:55

I'm responsible for so many

1:06:57

people. You know what I mean? Emotionally,

1:06:59

financially. You know what I mean? I'm

1:07:02

just responsible for so much and so

1:07:04

many people. And this is me.

1:07:06

But this is also still me being a person who grew

1:07:09

up and having to

1:07:11

suppress emotions, feelings, these

1:07:13

types of things. And

1:07:15

having instilled in me to never let

1:07:18

anyone feel sorry for you. You get what I'm

1:07:20

saying? I hear you. Never let anyone feel sorry

1:07:22

for you. So that was the main thing. And

1:07:26

I saw my brother looking

1:07:28

for sorrow on

1:07:31

a live stream just seconds before

1:07:33

ending the live stream and killing himself.

1:07:35

You know what I'm saying? So it's

1:07:37

like this is my world. As

1:07:41

I'm going on that stage, I roll on out. You get

1:07:44

what I'm saying? But I still went on the stage, gave

1:07:46

a hell of a performance right up until that

1:07:48

life-changing moment, that pivotal moment. Career-changing

1:07:51

moment. Career-changing moment as well. You know what I'm

1:07:53

saying? But this is like, you

1:07:56

know, I understand even with that, like my reaction

1:07:58

to that because okay, now I'm not. it's

1:08:00

like they're telling like it's like they're

1:08:03

making me take the lid off of that jar

1:08:05

that I've just suppressed all these things in you

1:08:07

know the mean amount and I'm gonna tap into

1:08:09

that space and I just feel like you know

1:08:11

the world just got just

1:08:13

got like you know the the

1:08:16

bad end of a ticking time bomb you

1:08:18

know I mean that's what I was like

1:08:20

I was just a ticking time bomb the

1:08:22

entire time so I feel like the way

1:08:24

that situation played out man it was it

1:08:26

was it was healthy it

1:08:29

was so needed because I'm such a

1:08:31

hot commodity like and I'm such a

1:08:33

hustler a workaholic then I'm just I'm

1:08:35

using my hustle to just you

1:08:37

know to help me suppress I'm just staying busy

1:08:40

to help me suppress all of

1:08:42

these feelings you know right and I'm dealing

1:08:44

with what's happening underneath absolutely and what's happening

1:08:46

underneath is very real this is right you

1:08:48

know this is this is as real as

1:08:50

it gets that's my worst nightmare like it's

1:08:52

never been about me it's my people right

1:08:54

you know I'm saying like I live through

1:08:56

my worst nightmare why being the the

1:08:58

at the time hottest artists in the world top

1:09:00

streaming rapper in the world right not just you

1:09:03

know I'm saying like you know so it's yeah

1:09:05

you know my plate was full but I'm not

1:09:07

one to complain I'm gonna grab my fork my

1:09:09

knife and my spoon I'm gonna eat you know

1:09:11

right and like that's what it is especially when

1:09:13

eating makes you forget about you

1:09:16

know I'm saying no I you know the

1:09:18

pain of stomach but as I say man

1:09:20

from from one human being to another from

1:09:23

one brother to another I I hope you

1:09:25

take a moment to

1:09:27

acknowledge the stress the pressure

1:09:29

environment everything that it comes

1:09:31

with and know that

1:09:35

honestly maybe and I hope you don't make me regret

1:09:37

this I'll be honest with you from me to you

1:09:39

don't make me regret this moment the baby got you

1:09:42

I'm rooting for you no for sure I hope the

1:09:44

best for you I'm not a person I hope you'll

1:09:46

become an icon I hope you'll become somebody who makes

1:09:48

the world a better place I will you know I'm

1:09:50

rooting for you don't make me look bad I got

1:09:53

people gonna play this interview and be like I got

1:09:55

he vouched for him for sure you know I think

1:09:57

you're beyond everything I think you are truly someone who

1:09:59

can rise to the greatest heights. We've seen

1:10:01

your work, we've seen what you're passionate about. Appreciate it.

1:10:03

You're an amazing parent. Keep doing your thing. Avoid

1:10:07

the guns. That's just my personal opinion. Yes, sir. You know,

1:10:09

that's, I mean, that's just me. I hate guns. That's just

1:10:11

me. It cares me. I hate guns. Yeah, but I appreciate

1:10:13

you, my dear. Thank you. I appreciate you having me, my

1:10:15

dear. Thank you so much. You know what I mean? Thank

1:10:17

you. A0

1:10:30

Productions, Fullwell 73, and Pheas's

1:10:33

Pineapple Street Studios. The

1:10:35

show is executive produced by Terminoa, Ben Winston,

1:10:38

Jenna Y. Sperman, and Barry Fink.

1:10:40

Produced by Emmanuel Houses and

1:10:43

Marina Henk. Music, Mixing, and

1:10:45

Mastering by Hannes Brouw. Thank you so much

1:10:47

for taking the time and tuning in. Thank you

1:10:49

for listening. I hope you enjoy the conversation. I

1:10:51

hope we left you with some though. Hopefully

1:10:54

we'll see you again next week, same time,

1:10:56

which is whenever you listen. Same place, which

1:10:58

is wherever you listen. This

1:11:00

episode is brought to you by Starbucks. Ah,

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the holidays. They say it's a perfect

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