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This is What Now? with Trevor

0:10

Noah. This

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episode is brought to you by the podcast Tools

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1:44

Janelle Monáe Day, everybody. Happy Janelle

1:46

Monáe Day. I

1:48

think it's also important to acknowledge something.

1:52

Josh, you have an announcement, don't

1:54

you? I mean, it's why you're here today on

1:56

the podcast. This is

1:58

the part where you're supposed to say... I'm hosting

2:00

the come on Josh. You're killing me here bad.

2:02

My bad. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know we

2:04

were starting best my bad I thought come on

2:07

Josh. Yeah, no, this was supposed to be like

2:09

a seamless introduction. Okay Yeah me then you go

2:11

like oh you're hosting the Grammys Now

2:14

I said I've said it I'm hosting the Grammys no,

2:17

no, no, no we could do it again We could

2:19

do it again. No, we can't do it again. Josh.

2:21

We've lost all of the it's like We've walked into

2:23

a birthday party surprise thing and then like I like

2:25

you didn't you left the lights on Everyone

2:27

was just sitting around the couches. It's gone.

2:29

The moment is gone Josh. Yes I will be

2:31

hosting the Grammys and I'm very happy for you. They

2:33

asked me they're like, who do you bring on the

2:35

podcast? To be a hype man. I was like

2:38

my boy Josh if there's one person

2:40

who knows how to hype you up.

2:42

It's Josh Johnson Oh boy, the hype

2:44

beast You're looking great today

2:47

Thank you so much. I'm excited about

2:50

that. That's a lot of fun. Are you

2:52

really excited or you contractually obligated to say

2:54

that you're excited? I

2:56

don't have to say anything about the Grammys

2:58

that is good or bad. They'd like like

3:00

nothing I enjoy the Grammys

3:02

because I get to watch the show

3:04

in person and then just experience and

3:06

comment on it in person While

3:09

it is happening. I'll be honest and

3:11

I know that the producers of the Grammys won't like this.

3:13

I Like

3:15

it when something goes off the rails

3:17

at the Grammys because I'm experiencing it

3:19

firsthand with them because normally I'd be

3:21

at home tweeting it like oh Now

3:25

I get to be in the audience being like oh Like

3:28

it's live and it's happening. Yeah, I like

3:30

the producers do not like this. They do

3:32

not want anything bad to happen

3:36

Neither do I by the way? Yeah, I do

3:38

not want anything bad to happen. But

3:40

should the thing happen There

3:42

is a part of me That just

3:45

it just skips a little bit like

3:47

there was a moment at last year's Grammys

3:49

where Sam Smith performed their song And

3:58

Then few people in the

4:01

audience who were of a certain age, you

4:03

should have seen their faces when the devil

4:05

imagery came up. And I

4:07

could feel an energy in the room where you

4:09

could feel people were like, Hmm, this

4:11

is Satan in the room with us. I was

4:14

like, Oh, this is this is tasty. It was

4:16

palpable. And then there was another moment when Beyonce

4:19

hadn't arrived yet. And people were

4:21

starting to whisper that Beyonce wasn't

4:23

actually coming and it wasn't real.

4:26

And I could feel that energy building

4:28

up both online and in person. And

4:30

I literally came and I was like, Yo, Beyonce

4:33

is definitely coming. There's not a scam.

4:35

She's on her way. She's in traffic.

4:38

And you could see some people like how dare

4:40

you? How dare you

4:42

suggest that the Queen could

4:44

be involved and embroiled in

4:46

something so pleasant like she

4:48

would never be in traffic.

4:50

She's merely surrounded by

4:53

unknowing fans. So

4:55

amazing. So I actually

4:57

am. I'm excited for that

4:59

Christiana. Yeah. Now I was wondering, because you've done it.

5:01

You've done it a few years now. And sometimes I'm

5:03

like, at what point does it start to feel like

5:05

what like is it still like, it's

5:07

the Grammys, you know, like the biggest music show in the

5:09

world? Or is it like, Oh, we

5:11

have to do the Grammys. Honestly, I think I think

5:13

it's like the best concert. And it's

5:15

how I get introduced to country music that I go on to love

5:18

for the remainder of the year. And it's

5:20

got a great host this year Trevor

5:22

Noah. Oh, man, Josh. Wow. Man, you

5:24

didn't have to. It's an

5:27

interesting time in music, you know,

5:29

anytime there's an award or there's

5:31

a conversation around music, it is

5:34

both the most joyous conversation and

5:36

then the most fraught conversation. Because

5:39

music is like like all art is subjective.

5:41

But then people are really objective about their opinions

5:44

on the arts. Do you know what I mean?

5:46

Yeah, I would rather talk about like the

5:48

Middle East and the Barb versus Cardi B.

5:51

Honestly, like I will

5:53

not discuss the human art that

5:55

they are scarier. Yeah. Did

5:58

you see did you see this? this

6:00

like week that's gone by, somebody

6:03

wrote, I think it was

6:05

a Vulture article, reviewing Beyonce's

6:07

Renaissance film, and

6:10

they got the wrath of

6:13

a thousand gods on them. And

6:17

then literally I saw them and a few

6:19

other music journalists posting, this is why music

6:21

journalism is no longer worth it. We do

6:24

not get paid enough, nor

6:26

do we get enough mental therapy and

6:28

support to handle what the

6:30

stands, because, yo, let me tell you something,

6:32

I remember even when I was on the

6:34

Daily Show, the

6:36

producers would say, you might remember this, Christiana

6:38

and Josh as well, they would

6:40

say to us, they'd be like, hey, if

6:42

you are gonna say something about

6:45

Taylor Swift, or about

6:47

BTS, or about Beyonce, or

6:50

like they would go, please, please be ready

6:54

for what's about to happen. It was

6:56

such a stock warning. You were like,

6:58

this is music, right? They're like, no,

7:00

please prepare yourself. Our servers

7:03

will shut down, our social media will

7:05

crash. Yeah, please prepare yourself.

7:07

I remember once, I wasn't even making

7:09

a joke about BTS. I had nothing

7:11

negative to, but the people were like,

7:14

yeah, but you said BTS, and

7:16

then you said something that seemed like you were making a joke

7:18

about them. I was like, but I wasn't. They're

7:20

like, it's not worth it, Trevor. It's not

7:23

worth it. Yeah, it's like all of music has

7:25

become YSL, where it's

7:27

like, no, it's not just music, all right?

7:29

It is a full-on gang, they are dangerous.

7:32

Yeah, I'm afraid of them. It's just like,

7:34

and they seem to have a lot of

7:37

time to stand, that's the thing. They have

7:39

the time, they have the passion, they'll

7:41

find where you live. No, I mean.

7:43

I wanted, you know, it's funny, Christian, I was wondering

7:46

what you were thinking of the Beyonce thing. I

7:48

think it was particularly harsh, because

7:51

the review of Beyonce's Renaissance film,

7:54

the gist of it was, Beyonce says

7:56

that this film is a bomb

7:58

that aims to... soothe us and I'm

8:00

paraphrasing it but it's like aims to soothe us because

8:03

of all the bad things that have happened

8:05

or everything we've gone through recently and then

8:08

it's like but this film is not revolutionary

8:10

it is broad liberal Pablum that seeks to

8:12

you know blah blah blah blah and I

8:14

was like okay first of all if

8:17

Beyonce has even said it is a bomb

8:19

she hasn't said it's a cure why are

8:21

you angry with her? Yeah You know what

8:23

I mean? If somebody says this is a

8:25

bomb or a cream it's a gel that

8:27

just like helps your skin when your sun

8:29

burns why are you not like this person

8:31

didn't stop the sun from burning it was

8:33

so angry at Beyonce

8:36

for not like I guess making like

8:38

a Malcolm X album or something? Yeah

8:41

I'll tell you my opinion I

8:43

do like a scathing review because I think

8:45

people are afraid to do them now everyone's

8:47

too nice so I do respect her for

8:49

being scared I think we should bring that

8:51

back that tradition of like artists making something

8:53

and you're being afraid of the review

8:56

because then maybe people would make that at heart

8:58

right but then in that sense I think it

9:00

was like an over correction because no one is

9:02

able to critique Beyonce like now we have these

9:04

like figures whether it's like a Taylor Swift or

9:06

a Beyonce or a BTS and

9:09

it's like you can't critique them and I think

9:11

that's ridiculous and I think she was maybe over

9:13

correcting a bit because you know some of the

9:15

things she mentioned is like Covid-19 I was like

9:17

what's that got to do with Beyonce? I

9:20

think cultural criticism at its best

9:22

can make art better it makes

9:24

the artist better and you

9:26

know you come away from it feeling a bit informed.

9:28

But do we still need it like and here's why

9:30

I say yes yeah let me explain why wait but

9:33

let me explain so okay here's my

9:36

thing here's the only reason I ask

9:38

is it necessary do we still need

9:40

critique in that way when

9:43

every single consumer now has a voice

9:45

and a platform because look at

9:47

what I'm saying back in the day the reason

9:49

you needed a critic in that way is

9:51

because one you couldn't

9:53

afford to just buy the album and try it

9:56

out so back in the

9:58

day it was gonna be a

10:00

huge chunk of your money to listen

10:02

to this album. And so you needed somebody to wade

10:04

into the waters of this new product, whether it

10:06

was a film or whether it was a, you know,

10:08

a music album, so that they could give you an

10:11

idea of what to expect and whether or not

10:13

you should listen to it. Okay, that was the first

10:15

thing. And secondly, you had no platform to critique it.

10:17

But I don't know, sometimes I think to myself,

10:20

we're now living in an age where

10:22

everybody, every single one of let's say,

10:24

my fans, supporters, anyone who comes to

10:26

my shows as Trevor, they can critique

10:28

it themselves. But I'm like, Wait, so

10:30

why does this one person get an

10:32

outside platform to critique it more

10:34

than anyone else? Because I

10:37

actually believe in expertise. I

10:39

believe there are some people who are

10:41

more positioned to engage in art

10:43

and for Wow,

10:46

all opinions aren't equal.

10:48

Wow. Nobody's like, I

10:52

can see a painting and I'm like, I can

10:55

be like, it's all right. I don't know about

10:57

art. You know what I mean? But like,

10:59

maybe we should listen to the art historian

11:02

and hear what they have to say. And

11:04

they can play in a broader cultural context.

11:06

Trevor criticism matters to what Christian is saying.

11:08

And what I also feel,

11:10

I think a review and the

11:13

institutions around any art, right? So

11:15

for music, it's, it's both like,

11:18

music magazines that have a legacy and

11:20

Grammys and awards. And then for comedy,

11:22

it's usually like the JFL award

11:24

of comic of the year, like we have led to

11:27

that stuff. But I think that it

11:29

does set a sort of

11:31

Overton window and it takes the temperature

11:33

at the time. And then the backlash

11:36

to or from that is what leads

11:39

us to the next thing. So when everyone is

11:41

talking, I get that everyone has a voice. But

11:43

when everyone's talking about everything all the time, it's

11:45

all noise. I would actually

11:48

like a review of my work. Debt

11:50

is from a publication that is too harsh.

11:52

So then there's somebody to be like, it

11:55

wasn't that bad. No,

11:57

you know what, you know what? To

12:00

your point, yes, I think I agree with

12:02

some of what Christiane is saying. I agree

12:04

with some of what you're saying. Maybe that's

12:06

what I like about Janelle Monae is

12:09

she's an artist who has existed in

12:13

a world where she is

12:15

both, it seems, a

12:17

darling of the critics and of her

12:19

fans. Like she's always pushing

12:22

the envelope of what her

12:24

music should be, what it should stand for, what

12:26

the messages are, what she's trying to portray. And

12:28

then there are moments where, you

12:31

know, to use your phrase, Josh,

12:33

the Overton window, she shifts it

12:36

into a place that sometimes even her fans are

12:38

uncomfortable with. For instance, in her newest album, you

12:40

know, for those who don't know, Janelle Monae kicked

12:43

off her career as this

12:46

self-proclaimed and androgynous

12:48

android. And the

12:50

way she dressed in her music videos

12:52

and the way she performed, you

12:55

know, she was in these suits and they

12:57

were the technicolor ideas and it was really vibrant,

12:59

but it was also very futuristic. You know,

13:01

people were like, oh, what is this? And

13:03

she's like, yeah, she's like, I'm not a female

13:05

artist. I am an androgynous A.I. And

13:08

it was new and it was different and it

13:10

was all about technology and it was still a

13:12

black woman performing, which was phenomenal. But in her

13:14

latest album, in a in a

13:16

in a differently radical way, Janelle

13:18

Monae is she's showing skin and she's

13:21

she's with like beautiful women by a

13:23

pool and it's all different shapes and

13:25

different bodies and they're exploring each other.

13:28

And then some of her fans I saw were like,

13:31

I this is not Janelle Monae. This is not this

13:33

is not the art. This is not what I signed

13:35

up for. I signed up for the woman who wears

13:37

suits and doesn't show her body. And Janelle's like, yeah,

13:39

but all of this is an expression of who I

13:41

am. And so what I like about her is

13:44

that is that Janelle Monae seems to operate

13:46

in a space where she either is

13:49

immune from the criticism and critique

13:51

or she is her

13:53

own biggest critic who

13:55

moves her music and her and her art

13:58

forward. All right, I'm going to

14:00

I'm going to jump in. with with Janelio. This

14:02

was a lot of fun. I'm excited. Two-time Grammy

14:04

nominee just this year. Hi

14:14

Trevor. And what's going on? Long

14:17

time no see. It

14:20

is a long time. You know what's funny? It

14:22

totally skipped my mind that we're going to

14:24

see each other again for the interview. But

14:26

I actually like this. You know why? Because I feel like

14:28

I would have asked you all my questions in person and

14:30

then I would have had to like try and repeat everything

14:32

now. So this is good actually. It's perfect. We'll

14:35

pretend like we don't know each

14:37

other. Oh I like that. I like that actually.

14:39

No but I but I feel like I do know

14:41

you. I feel like I do know you and you

14:43

know the more I get to know about you I

14:46

feel like I wish I had known you my entire life. You

14:49

may be one of the most interesting human

14:51

beings I've ever come across and you know

14:54

you see it in your music. You

14:57

see it in your acting and

14:59

you see it when you know when you get to know

15:01

Janel Monet as a human being. Before

15:03

we get into all the projects, the one

15:06

question I had for you is how

15:09

long does it take you

15:12

to absorb the fact that you are

15:14

nominated not just for

15:16

multiple Grammys but nominated

15:18

for album of the year notoriously one

15:21

of the hardest categories to

15:23

be nominated for. No

15:26

matter how many times I hear nominated

15:28

for album of the year it still it

15:31

hasn't sunk in that it's

15:34

really really true. I mean the

15:36

coolest thing about being in that category

15:38

is not only am I being recognized

15:40

for the work I've done but

15:43

everybody is being recognized from

15:45

the producers to writers to the features

15:47

to the whole community I wrote it

15:50

with and who I wrote it

15:52

for and that's what makes it

15:54

beautiful because it takes a lot to

15:56

give of yourself to be vulnerable

15:58

and you have to have For me, I need

16:00

to have people I can trust around me. I have

16:02

to trust your taste. I have to trust that

16:05

I can not get it right the

16:07

first time and I'm in a good

16:09

space to grow with you and

16:11

I gotta have fun with you. It has to be

16:14

a family affair when I'm working on an album. And

16:16

for all of us to be

16:18

recognized in that category, in addition

16:20

to being recognized in best progressive

16:22

R&B album, it's a dream. I'm

16:25

just so thankful for everybody who's

16:27

listened to the album, to the

16:29

age of pleasure. It's

16:31

interesting that you say it's a

16:33

vulnerable process because I agree with that completely.

16:36

I always tell my team or the people that

16:39

I work with, I say, we have no control

16:41

over what this will be. We have no control

16:43

over how this will turn out. But

16:45

the one thing we can control is the people we

16:47

make it with. Yeah, that's right. And

16:49

I love that you say vulnerable because I can't

16:53

even imagine how vulnerable making music

16:55

is. And I feel

16:57

like your music is exponentially more vulnerable.

17:00

Age of pleasure, I love how you've

17:02

been calling yourself a free ass motherfucker.

17:05

That's what you've been saying in

17:07

this era. And I'd love to know, do

17:09

you feel free? And if

17:11

yes, what do you think it was

17:13

that previously made you feel like you weren't as free as

17:15

you want it to be? I

17:18

think after releasing this album, I

17:20

feel much lighter. I'm

17:22

floating. I know you're not

17:24

supposed to float in all the way. Not

17:31

just in gratitude, but I'm floating in

17:34

all of me. Does that make

17:36

sense? Yeah, but why? Like what about it? Is it the

17:38

actual release of the album or is it because of the

17:40

content? I think making

17:42

this album was one of the most brave things

17:44

that I could have done. Making

17:47

it in the middle of a pandemic. Making

17:50

anything in the middle of a pandemic. And

17:54

it's not easy, man. It's not easy. I

17:57

was forced to sit down and really.

18:00

really go inward and I said

18:02

let me make the most of that. What

18:04

things haven't I gotten an opportunity to

18:07

really grow and heal

18:10

from? I had

18:12

to peel back a lot of a lot

18:15

of layers and grow some

18:17

new skin you know and release

18:20

some things that I might

18:22

not have had time to do had I

18:24

been running around in circles

18:27

and not even just in circles but just work.

18:29

I mean you know like I know when you

18:31

are needed in the way

18:33

that we're needed sometimes we're

18:35

telling the same stories you

18:37

know we don't have time to develop new ones.

18:40

Sometimes we're singing the same songs we

18:42

don't have the experiences the new experiences

18:45

to make new ones you know

18:47

what I'm saying? Yeah it's

18:49

funny one of the best pieces of advice I ever

18:51

got it was Chris Rock when I was

18:53

first starting out on The Daily Show and at

18:55

that time I was working seven days a week so I'll

18:57

do The Daily Show for the week and then I would

18:59

jump on the road and I would do stand-up and I

19:02

was proud of myself you know I

19:04

would see Chris all the time and one

19:07

day you know Chris said to me like how you doing

19:09

young man and I said I'm doing good Chris I'm working

19:11

really hard I work seven days a week it's seven days

19:13

a week seven days a week

19:16

you're gonna be the worst comedian

19:18

ever and I'm like what? and

19:21

he said something that stuck with me till this

19:23

day he said don't

19:25

forget comedy is about

19:27

what you experience when living life

19:30

if you're not living life your comedy

19:33

doesn't have life and

19:35

that stuck with me and it resonates

19:37

with what you're saying right now right

19:39

it's like yeah as an artist people

19:41

take for granted that you are you're

19:43

living yeah and then you're translating those

19:45

lived experiences into something that's so

19:48

specific that strangely enough it resonates with everything

19:50

and everyone out there yeah no

19:52

that is so true like hardest

19:54

neat time to not

19:57

do anything yeah what would you say

19:59

the biggest you unlocked because anyone

20:02

who's watched you or has seen your career

20:04

unfolds has probably been mesmerized by

20:06

the way you've taken control, not

20:08

just of how you shape your career, but

20:11

how you define how you're seen.

20:15

I never take for granted how difficult it is

20:17

as an artist. You've got so many people trying

20:19

to define how you look, how you feel, who

20:22

you are, to the point where

20:24

someone could even say to you, oh no, this isn't

20:26

a Janelle Monae song. This isn't a Janelle Monae vibe.

20:29

But you're somebody who's defined that from the very beginning. You

20:33

kick off your career and you're

20:35

playing this androgynous AI character

20:37

in suits and it's

20:40

powerful and it's beautiful and it

20:42

evokes something completely different and futuristic.

20:46

And then as you evolve, we start

20:48

seeing different themes in your

20:50

music and in the music videos. And you've

20:52

always been a very visual musician, which I've

20:54

always appreciated. Age of pleasure is

20:57

exactly that. It feels like you're stepping into

21:00

pleasure. It feels like you're stepping into yourself.

21:10

Talk me through that. What was the intention

21:12

behind an album where there's a lot more

21:14

skin, there's a lot more flesh, but it

21:16

doesn't seem like it's about a

21:19

lack of agency or it's

21:21

not like it's for the person's pleasure. It's almost

21:23

that we get to observe you and your pleasure.

21:27

I love that. I love that.

21:29

I love this question. And I think as

21:33

I reflect on my evolution

21:35

and my earth experience, there's a quote

21:37

by Beth Van Hardison. She

21:40

says, people don't change. They

21:43

become more of who they are.

21:47

And I think that's what

21:49

I had the responsibility

21:51

to myself to do. And

21:55

all of that seeps out into my art. As

21:57

I grow, you guys grow with me. Seeing,

22:01

you know, black and brown people smiling,

22:05

dancing, experiencing

22:07

joy together and defining

22:10

what pleasure means to us. I think that

22:12

pleasure is a human right for

22:14

all of us. I think

22:17

that even when we are fighting

22:19

for our lives, for existence, for

22:21

equality, I think that it's

22:23

so important to have balance and

22:25

take some time to again,

22:28

steal back our joy, reclaim our

22:30

joy, reclaim our happiness, reclaim our

22:32

power and understand that we were

22:34

not put on this earth to

22:36

live out an imbalanced life. We

22:39

deserve whole lives. And

22:41

so for me, the age of pleasure

22:43

is that moment where we have won. We

22:46

have won internally. We

22:49

have given ourselves permission to

22:51

pause and say, we

22:54

are not centering divisiveness.

22:56

We are not centering those

22:59

who don't see us, who don't think that we

23:01

deserve life, don't think that we deserve equality. Those

23:04

who want to continue to marginalize us

23:06

and abuse their power, we're not centering

23:08

them. How

23:11

do you conduct the conversation with your

23:13

fans and with people

23:15

who almost want to keep you

23:18

in the place that they maybe found you and fell

23:20

in love with you? You

23:22

know, I'm sure there are some people

23:24

who go, Janelle, I loved it

23:26

when you were fully covered up and wearing

23:28

suits and, you know, and there was nothing

23:31

in any way sexual about your image. And

23:33

I'm sure there are some people who say,

23:35

oh, Janelle, I loved it when it really

23:37

seemed like you were questioning everybody's sexuality and

23:40

identity and opening that conversation. I like that

23:42

period of you. And then there are

23:44

others who are going to love you in this space

23:46

and going like, damn, girl, I'm loving you in the

23:48

pool and just enjoying yourself and walking on a counter

23:50

and you're wearing a bathing suit and you're looking great.

23:53

How do you conduct that conversation? You know,

23:55

it's always a difficult one, I think, for artists. You

23:58

know, even covered up, I would say. Sexualized

24:01

people thought I was sexy and

24:03

there are people when I'm not in a suit who are

24:05

attracted to me and I and and When

24:07

I'm in a dress they're attracted to me

24:10

and there are people when I'm in jeans

24:12

maybe once or twice a year That

24:14

are or are not attracted to me You

24:17

know, I and I think that people

24:19

see themselves in certain parts of who

24:21

I am Some people really, you know

24:23

get their identity from some of

24:25

their favorite artists. I was just like that Yeah,

24:27

you know there were people that I loved growing

24:29

up and I would dress like right but

24:32

I think that what what sometimes we

24:34

do just as human nature is Project

24:37

sometimes we also see

24:39

ourselves so much in somebody's like oh,

24:42

but if they change am I supposed to change?

24:44

Yeah, no, no, no, no. No, is this forcing

24:46

me to have to reexamine all

24:49

of the systems that have

24:51

defined what masculinity looks like

24:54

what femininity looks like You

24:56

know when I came out I didn't even

24:58

know, you know what being non-binary was so

25:01

there was a part of me who was

25:04

pushing to get outside of

25:06

the gender norms and And

25:08

what's expected of you and there were

25:10

so many times where so many people

25:12

tried to sort of Lobby

25:15

for me to look like this or look like that and

25:17

you know You could see that early on in my career

25:19

that I was I was like, no I'm

25:21

honoring where I am. And so I think you

25:24

are you have to just honor who you are and be

25:26

okay Be

25:29

okay with people having those conversations it doesn't

25:31

bother me at all. I love it I

25:33

think one of the best ways to honor where where

25:36

you are or who you are is to

25:38

also be able to honor where you Come

25:40

from and there is no separating your history

25:42

from the south You know

25:44

and and and there is no separating the south From

25:48

two very key elements I find and

25:50

one of those is the

25:53

history of oppression and slavery and

25:55

the other one is the relationship

25:58

with religion Do

26:00

you think coming up against

26:02

the ideas of religion in

26:04

some way, shape, or form galvanized you and helped

26:07

you come up against any ideas that you find

26:09

just in the world? From very early

26:11

on, it seems like you had to

26:14

find how you maintain your relationship within

26:16

religion and also define who

26:18

Janelle is. What was that journey like for

26:20

you? I was

26:22

always the naughty kid in church.

26:25

When my pastor was preaching, I was

26:28

having outbursts singing every

26:30

song from the radio. In

26:34

my own little world, I remember this

26:36

vividly, like three or four being escorted

26:38

to children's church because I

26:40

was just disrupting and disrupting certain systems

26:42

where you have to be ... You

26:45

know, you were taught to be proper

26:47

and prim, skirts

26:49

below the knees as I grew

26:51

older. It was like, ooh, you needed to

26:55

perform religion, perform

26:57

... Or

27:00

church, I'll say. Sometimes

27:02

religion and church kind of get

27:04

intertwined. The culture of

27:06

church, the one I went to, being

27:09

Baptist, growing up in Kansas, you

27:12

can look at the laws there. You

27:14

can look at the lawmakers. You can look

27:16

at sort of the conservative nature of that

27:18

place. You were just taught

27:21

to dim your light, be quiet,

27:23

don't ask questions, and this

27:25

is what we do. I

27:28

always question. I'm always intrigued by people

27:30

who grew up in a system where

27:32

they were given the answers and yet

27:34

still chose to question. I

27:36

wonder, is it from a parent? Is it from the world? Is

27:38

it something you saw? Is it something you read? I

27:41

don't know. I

27:43

don't know. I mean, that is

27:46

... I think it's a part of just

27:48

my own destiny. Are

27:50

you the most rebellious person in your family? If

27:53

you ask my family, they would say, yeah. I

27:55

grew up with 49 first cousins, Trevor. Wait,

27:58

I'm sorry, what? 49

28:01

first cousins you heard it wait wait

28:03

wait wait wait wait first like first first first 49

28:07

Yes, first first like and I know all their names

28:10

So my grandmother was a

28:12

sharecropper in Aberdeen, Mississippi. She

28:15

had 14 brothers and sisters Wow You

28:17

know very very poor They shared one pair

28:19

of shoes and she would tell the story

28:21

to go to school each and every day

28:24

They couldn't even afford shoes for everybody And

28:27

so she would wear her big brother shoes and they

28:29

were so big on her feet But just to get

28:31

to school, you know, they had to do that and

28:33

she picked cotton and she ended

28:35

up you know leaving the very racist

28:37

Aberdeen, Mississippi then go on to Kansas

28:40

and it's pretty

28:42

I didn't realize this until You

28:45

know after she was gone and then you

28:47

know You have yeah some of the sisters

28:49

and telling the family secrets and you're like

28:51

wow that really happened So my grandmother was

28:53

in one of those sort of color purplish

28:56

kind of families Yeah from what I was

28:58

told her father

29:00

basically Wanted

29:02

some land from this man and Said

29:05

I have a daughter Wow. Yes I will

29:08

trade you my daughter for this land and

29:10

and trade you in like you can

29:13

make a family with her She'll have

29:15

your kids Wow. So my grandmother actually

29:17

had two kids by this man

29:19

in, Mississippi and Her

29:23

sisters helped her do it, but her sisters helped her Leave

29:26

and they raised the two daughters

29:28

while my grandmother settled in Kansas

29:30

City And that's where she

29:32

met my grandfather and they had ten

29:34

kids together. And so she had a total of

29:37

twelve kids Wow, yeah, I was I was hurt

29:39

when I found that out Yes, and

29:41

I and I just my grandmother is

29:43

the strongest person that I know in

29:45

my family Wow the way that she

29:48

has forgiven I don't

29:52

Don't know if I could I I don't know.

29:54

I don't know how I could do it Wow,

29:57

but but I you know, I actually I

29:59

actually think I actually

30:01

think you have her forgiveness gene in you.

30:03

I think, you

30:05

know, I look at your

30:07

story with your father. One of the things

30:10

I connected with you on is the relationship

30:12

you've had with a parent who

30:15

has struggled with addiction, you

30:17

know, and it

30:19

is unfortunate how many people have

30:21

actually had that experience. And

30:24

there are many different outcomes, by the way, I think, you

30:26

know, to try and

30:28

put into one box minimizes what it actually

30:30

is. I think addiction has many different sides

30:32

to it. But you've shared

30:34

and you've talked about how, you know,

30:36

your dad struggled with drug addiction and

30:38

at some point he was incarcerated and

30:41

that was a strain on your relationship. But

30:44

on the other side of it, you've maintained

30:46

a connection, you've worked to understand the human

30:48

being. I've always wanted to know if that's

30:50

shaped how you see

30:52

the world around you. You know, you're

30:55

a fierce advocate for prison reform. You're

30:57

an advocate for how we treat

30:59

people who struggle with addiction, how

31:02

we, you know, decriminalize or, you

31:04

know, refine the conversations. That

31:07

journey for me requires patience, it

31:09

requires fortitude, it requires transformation time

31:12

and time again. What

31:14

do you think you learned from that relationship with

31:16

your dad and what are you constantly trying to

31:18

learn? You know, in addition to my grandmother,

31:20

you know, for her era and being the

31:22

matriarch of my family, my father, you

31:25

know, my stepfather and my mother

31:27

are three of the most strong

31:29

people I know as well. They

31:32

grew up in that crack epidemic where you were

31:34

either selling it, you were smoking it or

31:37

sometimes you were doing both. And

31:39

so at different points, you know,

31:41

my parents all struggled with

31:44

drug addiction. You know, some

31:46

of them it was just, you know, a few months or

31:48

less than a year. Some of them

31:50

it was years and my father, it was almost

31:52

18 years for him. In

31:56

and out of prison. So imagine what that does to

31:58

your mind. And

32:01

if you talk to my dad today, you

32:04

would be like, you are a miracle. He's

32:08

written a book. He is completely

32:10

sober. He's the life of the party.

32:13

That's beautiful. That's amazing. He's

32:15

so cool. He and I have smokes at

32:17

guards together. That's beautiful. You

32:19

know, he calls me. He gives me

32:21

so much advice and, you know, really,

32:23

really lifts me up. And it went

32:25

from our relationship being

32:27

very inconsistent and me

32:30

being very upset and mad at him,

32:33

who now I understand

32:36

that he was just sick. You

32:39

know, the concept of therapy,

32:41

you know, for that generation was like,

32:44

what are you talking about? That's

32:46

a foreign concept. That's a

32:48

foreign concept, right? Right? And

32:51

all of this should be free for our

32:53

people and for Americans.

32:56

And so for my dad not to have the

32:58

proper tools to deal with his anxiety, to deal

33:00

with his depression, to deal with

33:02

whatever mental health crisis as he was going

33:04

through, you know, and he didn't have his

33:06

dad in his life. I

33:08

understood why he turned the drugs. I

33:11

did not get it, but I understood it. And

33:13

so, you know, I think we

33:15

have to look at our parents as humans and

33:17

not just like, well, that's my dad and he's

33:19

supposed to do this or do that. Me and

33:21

my father have a human-human connection. When I came

33:24

out to him, he was like, man, I love

33:26

you. I love you

33:28

for you. Whatever journey you're going on, I'm going on

33:30

with you. Oh, that's beautiful. I've

33:33

learned it is almost impossible to see your

33:35

parent as a human if you do not

33:37

forgive them for what you experienced with them

33:39

as a parent. Absolutely. You

33:42

know, forgiveness is the key that unlocks

33:44

that moment with them. And for many

33:46

people, I think they don't

33:48

get that release until their parents have

33:50

died, unfortunately. You know, that becomes the

33:53

first time they now see them as a

33:55

human. Yeah. Don't

33:58

go anywhere because we got more work. What now, after

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for a year. I

35:47

grew up in South Africa at

35:49

a time when, you

35:51

know, not only were we, I mean, exploring the

35:53

very genesis of a democracy, I

35:55

think a lot of the African community that I grew up in

35:58

was grappling with the ideas of... sexuality in

36:00

an open way. We

36:03

have been induced into a deep

36:05

religious, very similar to Americans, black

36:08

Americans particularly, religion had

36:10

become this blanket that covered everything

36:12

and it extinguished anything that wasn't

36:15

seen as pure. And

36:19

one of the things I look at

36:21

is the difficulty of having conversations around

36:23

any type of queerness in the black

36:25

community. And there's

36:27

no separating it from the history of

36:29

how it was used sometimes as a

36:32

tool to subjugate people, whether it was

36:34

slave masters purposely sodomizing

36:36

people or in some way, shape

36:39

or form trying to take away the humanity and their pride.

36:42

There is no denying that

36:44

Janelle Monáe, not just as a human being, but

36:46

as an artist, is

36:48

somebody who has created a space for

36:50

these conversations to exist within now. People

36:53

speak about their sexuality in a

36:56

different way, partially because of you. There are

36:58

many young people, there are many black people

37:01

who would have never engaged in some of these

37:03

conversations. Just how freely

37:05

you move between them saying like, oh,

37:07

I thought I was bisexual. And then

37:09

you talk about reading and defining your

37:12

sexuality. I would love to

37:14

know why you feel that's so important to you and

37:16

when you felt like I need

37:18

to explore this conversation publicly as well for

37:21

other people. Yeah. Well,

37:24

that's not anything that

37:26

I take lightly. And I

37:29

didn't realize by me speaking my truth,

37:32

how many people would see

37:34

themselves in it. I thought

37:36

it was just going to be over in

37:39

terms of my family support, the

37:41

people who were buying my art. I knew

37:43

I had community around me that made me

37:48

feel empowered enough to allow my truth

37:50

and my evolution to seep into my

37:53

art. You

38:00

know and it didn't come with everybody embracing me

38:03

there were some people who were just like

38:06

I used to be a fan What is

38:08

this agenda? She's pushing this agenda?

38:12

As though I'm the first Queer,

38:14

you know a sexual person to ever

38:16

exist and I think that is the

38:19

reason why it was important because

38:21

people need to know This

38:24

is not new queer folks

38:27

queer identity members

38:29

of the LGBTQI plus communities existed

38:32

Centuries ago, you know

38:34

since the beginning of time right and slowly

38:38

year by year decade by decade

38:42

Segregation by segregation.

38:44

Yeah oppression by oppression ostracization by

38:46

ostracization. Yeah, I'm totally with you all

38:49

all of it Yeah, all

38:51

of that took away our ancestors

38:53

identities, you know from

38:55

Africa to America and and it

38:58

created a false narrative that somehow

39:00

people Believed in but

39:03

for me I was just like we have to unlearn We

39:06

have to unlearn the misinformation

39:09

that we were taught That

39:12

there's something wrong with us for

39:14

embracing our queerness and that there's only

39:16

one way to love and

39:19

so for me it was like I

39:21

guess I Needed to

39:23

let that community that I grew you know in

39:25

Kansas and Kansas know like hey You

39:27

know when you were in church saying that all

39:29

gay people going to hell and and

39:32

you shamed me and and you know I'm

39:34

taking back my power Wow I

39:36

denounced those words and

39:38

not just for myself for everybody

39:40

in Kansas every young person in

39:42

Kansas That is being told that

39:44

their existence is an abomination. I

39:46

denounced that I rebuke that so

39:48

that it was a personal thing

39:50

for me It

39:53

was important. I'm so happy that I did it.

39:55

I felt freer. I think art

39:57

it has freed me in ways that

40:00

I never could imagine, I never

40:03

could imagine. That's

40:05

beautiful because oftentimes we'll

40:07

think about art freeing the listeners. We

40:10

think about how many people's lives get changed. Every

40:13

single person can say, oh man,

40:15

that album, that album changed how I saw

40:17

myself, how I saw the world, how I

40:19

saw love, how I saw relationships. But you

40:21

don't often think about the artists being affected

40:24

by their own art in the same way,

40:26

unlocking themselves with the same key. I've

40:29

always wanted to know how much

40:31

your relationship with Prince has

40:33

shaped how you see that. Every

40:36

time I think of a gender

40:39

defying and genre

40:41

defying idea, Prince always

40:43

comes to mind. I

40:46

remember when I met Prince, it was a

40:48

really surreal experience. It was in

40:50

New York, he was launching his book actually, and

40:52

we were at this event. I mean,

40:54

I was just in the general crowd. I had

40:57

no clue idea or even

40:59

belief that I would meet Prince. And

41:01

someone called me and said, hey, Prince would like to speak to

41:04

you. And I was like, well, clearly they called the wrong person.

41:07

He was so chill and he was

41:09

funny and he knew my work. And

41:11

he really kept in touch with everything around him, which

41:15

almost went against the enigma that

41:17

people had shrouded him in. And

41:20

what I loved was how honest he was in

41:22

the big and small things, because somebody

41:25

came up and tried to grab a selfie. And he said

41:27

to the person, he said, no, no, hey, hey, hey. He

41:29

said, no, no, no selfie, no selfie, just chill, man, just

41:31

chill. And he was nice to them. And he said, how

41:33

are you? And talked to them for a bit. And then they walked away

41:35

and I said, oh, why no selfie? Is

41:37

it because you wanna maintain the, is

41:40

it because you hate cameras? Is it because I was thinking

41:43

of this deep thing? And he said, no. He said, sometimes

41:45

I don't like how my chin looks in other people's pictures.

41:49

And we laughed so hard. And then we got into

41:51

conversations about identity and about how you perceive and how

41:54

you see yourself and how you get to shape that.

41:56

And I wondered how much

41:58

he... shaped or unlocked

42:01

in you. Because there's

42:03

no denying that some of your DNA has in

42:05

some way been touched by his, and then you've

42:07

gone on to create, as you say, more of

42:10

you with everybody that has touched your life.

42:12

No doubt. No doubt. I feel like I

42:14

was in the room with you when he

42:17

was saying these things. I

42:21

love that you got to experience that side of him.

42:23

So did I. I got to experience a real laid

42:28

back, never letting

42:30

his mystery get in the way

42:32

of mentorship and real human to

42:34

human conversations. I was scared of

42:36

Prince growing up. Everybody

42:41

was, I feel like. Prince and Grace Jones

42:44

scared me. I don't know if it was because

42:46

of my own religious

42:48

upbringings, but when I would

42:50

look on MTV and see

42:52

older videos of Prince, it

42:55

was something about his eyes and the way

42:57

he moved. I remember I had a dream

42:59

that he was chasing me. I will never

43:01

forget in a purple suit down the street,

43:04

right in front of my grandmother's house. I

43:06

still remember it. I

43:08

was like, oh my God, leave me alone. Leave

43:11

me alone. To fast

43:13

forward and him be one of my

43:15

best friends and someone

43:17

who really, really, really believed in

43:19

me, like somebody who would send

43:22

me emails. I

43:24

remember particularly he sent me an

43:27

email that said, Janelle Monae's voice

43:30

doesn't get talked about enough.

43:32

She can literally sing anything

43:34

from jazz to opera to

43:36

R&B. She raps. This

43:38

was at a time where I

43:41

just felt like I needed to...

43:43

I was really in my head about, I

43:47

don't feel like I fit anywhere. I don't fit

43:50

in anything, just

43:53

I don't. Right. The curse of being

43:55

versatile, right? I guess so.

43:57

Because it's like you don't have a lot

44:00

of people who have come before you who have

44:02

done multiple things

44:05

and move with their heart and

44:07

their spirit and all of

44:09

that. But anyway, I remember him sending me that and

44:11

I just felt so affirmed because this is also

44:13

somebody who can do it all. You

44:16

know, from acting to world building,

44:18

Purple Rain, like when I did

44:20

Dirty Computer, I was absolutely thinking

44:22

about Purple Rain. Who

44:24

hasn't used that time

44:26

in music as a North Star?

44:29

Who hasn't been inspired by Prince? And

44:31

even with Wonderland, my own arts collective, like

44:34

seeing what he did with Paisley Park and

44:36

New Power Generation, I mean, this is somebody

44:39

who understood the power of community, that

44:41

it wasn't just about him. And

44:44

so, yeah, he's impacted my life

44:46

personally. He's talked to me about the

44:48

business. He's fought for artists rights

44:50

in the business. And

44:52

my thing is, I

44:54

look at it like I went to church. Look

44:57

at us talking about church. And I honestly

44:59

had not been to church in a while.

45:02

And I heard a pastor talking and he said how

45:05

he had to travel through snow. And

45:08

you know, the snow leaves those prints, especially

45:10

when it's large, big, big, big inches of

45:12

snow. And it

45:14

makes it easier when somebody has walked

45:17

in that snow before you, because

45:19

you can put your feet where

45:23

they've put theirs. Yeah, I love that. And

45:25

that is the best way

45:27

that I can describe Prince. I've

45:30

been able to put my feet in the

45:32

footprints of him. And

45:34

I've carved, obviously, my own along

45:37

the way. I've taken different paths. But

45:40

I think that is the best way to sum up Power

45:42

Generation. We're

45:46

going to continue this conversation right off

45:48

to the short break. This

45:54

episode is brought to you by Audi. I

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46:26

I don't know about you, but

46:28

whenever I'm thinking of getting a car I'm

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it drives like a dream. Audi,

46:49

progress you can feel. Learn

46:52

more at audiusa.com/electric. I'm

47:05

not the first person to tell you this, but you're

47:07

phenomenal on screen. You have this uncanny

47:09

ability to move between genres even in

47:12

acting. You know there are some of the

47:14

funniest moments in some of

47:16

the movies that you're in and then others

47:18

will be really hard and really

47:20

deep and powerful. What

47:23

do you think it is about acting that connects you?

47:25

How has Janelle found herself again in

47:28

a completely different space? I

47:32

try to take on roles

47:35

that allow me to

47:37

get into the spirit of a

47:40

character and if I

47:42

can crack the spirit and

47:44

embody that spirit and reduce Janelle

47:47

Monae, the singer or the

47:50

people may know or the

47:52

performer on stage and

47:54

allow myself to go

47:57

outside of my own limitations of who I

47:59

can be. That is when

48:01

I feel like I'm in the pocket,

48:04

like I'm making the magic. And

48:07

I think transforming is just

48:09

sexy to me. Being

48:12

able to transform myself

48:16

into the spirit of somebody else's spirit and

48:18

channel their spirit. And that's what I always

48:20

ask for every time I show up on set is how

48:23

can the spirit lead? And

48:25

so I try to pick roles where I feel

48:27

like the spirits are important. Like oh

48:29

we need that spirit. And

48:32

with acting, you gotta know how to be still.

48:35

So there is a difference with

48:38

performing. I'm moving. I

48:40

don't know if you've come to any of

48:42

the concerts, but I'm moving. Oh yeah, of

48:45

course. Yeah, I'm moving. Like showmanship is important.

48:47

I am bringing energy. The people though are

48:50

singing the songs back to you. So a

48:52

lot of the performance isn't just you. It's

48:55

not just about what I'm doing. It's about am

48:58

I connecting? And

49:00

it's that one time that you do

49:03

it and then it's over. Like it's

49:05

live, it's done. With

49:07

acting, with filming, it's

49:09

gonna be, it's gonna live on

49:12

a platform, in a theater. You

49:14

know, it'll be a- Which is terrible. I find that terrifying

49:17

to be honest. That's what I'm saying. So when

49:19

you show up there, you gotta make something. You

49:22

have to really be able to again quiet

49:24

down those moments of

49:27

like high energy moving

49:29

around because sometimes that doesn't translate well. And

49:32

once I knew how to just

49:34

get still and be quiet, that's

49:36

when the spirit started to come out and

49:39

it wasn't about, let me play to the

49:41

back of the audience. You know,

49:43

everybody has to feel me. Like

49:45

it's a different muscle. And

49:48

I'll also say, you know, when I did

49:50

Glass Onion, I asked Ryan Johnson, I was

49:53

like, why did you pick me for this

49:55

role? My life was taken away from me

49:57

by someone, by everyone in this room.

50:00

Do you even know

50:02

what that means? Huh? And

50:04

this is spoiler alert, if you haven't seen it. I

50:08

play multiple characters and it

50:10

was so much fun, but I really wanted to know

50:12

like, why did you pick me? I thought I

50:14

could do it in my spirit and my heart. I was like, I

50:16

can do this. It's going to be a lot of fucking work, but

50:18

I can do it. And he said,

50:20

you know, one of the things that I

50:22

liked about you and I felt like it'd be perfect for this

50:24

role for is the fact that you know how to go in

50:28

and out of character when you're on stage. And

50:31

I watched Dirty Computer. I watched your film

50:33

that you put out with your album. And

50:36

I was like, this role is

50:38

going to require her to seamlessly,

50:42

just like she goes from song to song, where

50:44

there's up tempo, then ballad or mid tempo. This

50:47

character has so many different layers and

50:50

is going to be required to not

50:52

be who she is, but play somebody

50:54

pretending to be somebody else who is

50:56

somebody else. So he said,

50:59

I felt like you would understand that.

51:02

So for me, it's just, it's fun and

51:04

it's about transformation, you know, allowing myself to

51:06

see myself outside of who I can be.

51:10

I would be remiss if I didn't talk to

51:12

you about technology. I'll

51:15

be honest with you. If there's one

51:17

thing I truly love about Janelle Monae, if I, when

51:19

I think about it, I get so excited because I'm

51:21

like, you and I share one

51:23

thing and one thing above everything else.

51:26

We love technology.

51:29

We are obsessed. We are nerds in

51:31

that space. We are, I mean, I

51:33

can spend hours and hours engulfed in

51:35

everything from robotics to AI to,

51:37

and I know you share that passion

51:40

and it's a passion that I think is so

51:42

important to highlight for a few reasons. One,

51:45

for a long time, people have made

51:47

it seem like this area, you know, technology

51:50

is a space that is reserved for a

51:52

few, you know, and

51:54

we forget. And that's why I love that you were in Hidden

51:56

Figures because black women were

51:59

at the forefront computers and computing

52:01

and thinking about the future in so many

52:03

ways that I think it's Necessary and relevant

52:05

that we get back to that place where

52:07

everyone is involved in designing the future Yeah,

52:10

because then the future is designed for everyone

52:13

And so I'd love to know because I know you think about this

52:15

like Where do you see the

52:17

role of AI in arts? And where

52:20

do you see the role of AI in

52:22

building the future? Whoo, leave

52:24

it to you Trevor to always add

52:27

The Mind-boggling questions that

52:30

no, but I know you think about but no, I mean

52:32

we don't do that answers But I know you think about

52:34

this Right. I think about

52:36

it all the time, especially as somebody

52:38

who's done albums upon albums centering the

52:40

Android and Paralleling the

52:42

experience of the Android the other

52:45

to you know black and brown

52:47

people to you know Working-class poor

52:49

folks. Yeah to the LGBTQ plus

52:52

communities in those marginalized communities whose

52:54

voices are not represented

52:56

and amplified and so As

53:01

I see this all unfolding and I was very

53:03

inspired by Ray Kurzweil's the

53:05

singularity is near where he talks Exactly

53:07

about this moment. We are having where

53:10

you won't be able to differentiate a

53:12

human voice from an Android voice from a computer

53:15

voice Mm-hmm, and you know

53:17

your mother's saying to you. Happy birthday,

53:19

Janelle I love you from an actual,

53:21

you know AI saying it to you.

53:24

I get it is yeah technology Is

53:26

moving you know at a double exponential

53:28

rate and how it's like the

53:30

24th century? Bouncing

53:32

down on the 20th century. It's so it's

53:35

so ahead, you know, and so we don't

53:37

have the answers because it's moving so fast

53:39

and One

53:41

or two things so I think that AI Is

53:45

reflecting us. I think

53:47

that AI is a reflection of humanity And

53:50

when I use the Android You

53:53

know and I paralleled it to the other

53:55

and the other in today's society who

53:57

those people are I said When

54:00

we are integrated with AI,

54:02

when we're integrated with marginalized folks who

54:05

are not the majority, how are we

54:07

going to treat them? When

54:11

you think back on history,

54:13

how did we treat them? Because

54:15

two set bodies, black people, were

54:17

tools. We were

54:19

meant to serve. They

54:22

used religion to back

54:24

up their support or their point in

54:27

brainwashing us, our ancestors, into

54:30

believing like we are just servants. You

54:33

know what I'm saying? In some cultures, you're

54:36

going to find somebody to oppress

54:39

and say, this is all you are good

54:41

for. I think that there has to

54:43

be a look at this

54:45

new normal because it's not going away. How

54:49

do we integrate and

54:51

have a mature relationship with

54:54

AI? How do we get

54:56

people who are programming? Because I

54:58

think the programming is every bit

55:00

about the programmer. Oh,

55:02

I like that. Yeah. If

55:05

you have people programming who are biased.

55:08

Yeah, which everyone is. Right. You

55:11

may not know that you are biased. There's

55:13

diversity in that room that you're creating

55:16

for all of us. You're creating for not just some

55:18

of us and that's what we need. We

55:20

have to get radical about the programmers.

55:23

We have to get radical about who

55:25

is in the rooms, having these discussions

55:28

on what is too much, what should

55:30

be off limits, all of that. These

55:33

conversations around AI to

55:38

use our likeness even when we don't

55:40

give permission, I think that has

55:42

to absolutely be discussed. I think

55:44

there has to be laws and

55:46

regulations put in place for that.

55:48

I think the compensation is absolutely

55:50

a must if you use my

55:52

likeness. You should ask for permission and

55:54

we should discuss what that fee is. I think

55:56

all these things are discussion worthy. I don't think

55:59

we should be fearful. about

56:01

anything except for the programmers, capitalism,

56:06

and the lack of knowledge that

56:08

we are getting about it in real time.

56:11

Yeah, not forgetting that it's a mirror

56:13

of the people who have created it.

56:15

Absolutely. In a roundabout way, it perfectly

56:18

encapsulates Janelle Monae. You

56:20

are the mirror of everybody

56:22

who has created you. You

56:25

have your grandmother. You have

56:27

her sisters. You have your cousins. You

56:30

have your parents. You have prints. You

56:32

have the people you've worked with. You

56:34

have your fans. What

56:37

we've gotten to is, at

56:39

this moment in time, an artist

56:42

who is transcendent, somebody

56:45

who is constantly reshaping,

56:47

redefining, recreating, and honestly,

56:49

just all around inspiring.

56:54

I guess I have one

56:56

question for somebody who seems like she's

56:58

already doing everything, but I'm

57:01

sure is thinking about what next part of

57:03

everything to do. Janelle

57:06

Monae, what now? What

57:08

now for a multiple

57:11

Grammy-nominated artist going into this

57:13

Grammys? What now

57:15

for somebody who is producing

57:18

content, who is creating, who is making

57:20

music? What now for

57:22

Janelle Monae? What's next? I'm

57:25

going to keep creating, keep

57:27

telling stories. I think that's the one

57:29

thing that when I think about AI,

57:32

and even when I was writing

57:34

The Age of Pleasure, it was really

57:37

rooted in human-to-human contact. Those

57:41

experiences and those stories that you can't

57:43

get, you can't make those up, you

57:45

can't put it in chat, GPT.

57:48

These are real homegrown

57:50

experiences that I want to keep

57:52

having, and I want my art to reflect that, and I

57:54

want to create it for

57:57

communities that need it most. I

58:00

think that we're going into a big election year

58:02

next year, which means

58:04

already happening now. I think

58:06

that we need artists, we need

58:08

music, we need storytellers more

58:11

than ever. Empathy is

58:13

gonna be like a keyword, listening

58:16

is gonna be a keyword. Yeah, it's

58:18

gonna be in short supply. Yeah, like

58:21

compassion, showing

58:25

up for each other. All of

58:27

that is gonna be so important. I think the beautiful

58:29

thing about art and music and storytelling

58:31

is that it's able to do good work

58:35

and last a lifetime. And so

58:37

that's what I'm focused on now

58:39

is how I can continue to

58:41

add value to the world. Well,

58:46

if I'm judging by your past

58:48

performance, I can

58:50

safely say that it's gonna be special, it's gonna

58:52

be different, it's gonna be amazing. And

58:55

I can't wait to see what you create. Thank you

58:57

so much for joining us. Thank you for doing what

58:59

you do. Thank you for being so good at what

59:01

you do because I think people forget, without

59:04

great arts, there's no escape,

59:06

there's no imagining, there's no

59:08

seeing yourself in a space

59:10

that you did not think was possible. And so I

59:12

hope you never take for granted the fact that you

59:14

are also now creating those footsteps

59:16

in the snow with everything

59:18

that you're doing. And thank

59:20

you for all you do. I can't leave here without

59:22

saying how proud I am of you. Thank

59:25

you. What you see in me, I see in you.

59:27

Thank you, friend, I appreciate that. And I've always seen that

59:29

and I'm so excited about this chapter of

59:31

your life. And I think that you have

59:33

a very unique and powerful way and

59:35

warm way of interviewing. It's not

59:38

even interviewing, this conversation felt... Yeah,

59:42

it felt like real gumbo.

59:45

I love that. Real gumbo. Oh, I love

59:47

that. Audio gumbo. Audio gumbo, I

59:50

like that actually. As somebody who is a huge fan

59:52

of gumbo, you couldn't have given me a better compliment,

59:54

so thank you. Absolutely. All

59:56

right, my love, I'll talk to you later. Bye.

1:00:03

What Now with Trevinoa is produced

1:00:05

by Spotify Studios in partnership with

1:00:08

Day Zero Productions, Fullwell 73 and

1:00:10

Odyssey's Pineapple Street Studios. The

1:00:13

show is executive produced by Trevinoa,

1:00:16

Ben Winston, Jenna Weiss-Burman and Barry

1:00:18

Finkel, produced by Emmanuel Hapsis and

1:00:20

Marina Henke. Music

1:00:22

mixing and mastering by Hannes Brown. Thank

1:00:25

you so much for listening and we

1:00:27

will see you next week, this

1:00:29

time on Tuesday instead of Thursday.

1:00:32

See you then.

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This

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episode is brought to you by the podcast Tools

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