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Always drive safely. Hey

0:31

Travis, you ever get one of those

0:33

emails from a Nigerian prince promising you

0:35

a huge inheritance? I

0:37

have. Nigeria seems to have a

0:39

shocking number of deposed princes. So it turns out

0:42

they're now mostly working out of South Africa. And

0:44

today we're going to talk to a Secret Service

0:46

agent who's going to talk about how they're working,

0:48

what they're doing, and what it means for

0:50

you. And with that, welcome

0:53

to What The Hack, a true

0:55

cybercrime podcast. I'm Adam

0:57

Levin. I'm Beau Friedlander.

0:59

And I'm Travis Taylor. Mark,

1:16

welcome to What The Hack. Now you work

1:18

for the Secret Service in digital forensics out

1:20

of South Africa, correct? I'm

1:23

currently located in South Africa. And

1:25

from our base over here, we cover

1:27

23 countries on the African continent. And

1:30

when we say digital forensics, we're

1:33

talking about gathering data from electronic

1:35

devices. That's correct. What

1:37

got you into digital forensics? When

1:40

I was younger, I joined the army and

1:42

right here at the army, a few friends

1:44

of mine are actually in the forensic confraternity

1:46

in other disciplines. And

1:48

over weekends, I sat with them and we

1:51

went through evidence for criminal cases. And

1:53

that's basically what jogged my passion for the industry.

1:56

I'm also personally a massive advocate for

1:59

digital forensics. because I usually say that if

2:02

I can testify on electronic devices, then

2:04

you don't have to testify because everything

2:06

will be day. So

2:09

you work for the US Department of

2:11

Homeland Security and specifically the Secret Service,

2:14

but you're based in South Africa. Is it common

2:16

for the Secret Service to station agents overseas? It

2:20

is. We've got numerous

2:22

international offices which fall under

2:24

the International Program Division. We

2:26

have offices all over Europe, across South

2:28

America, Africa, and

2:30

also in Asia. So for the, I

2:32

mean, you know, with most people, I guess, in the

2:34

US, they just think of the guys that are protecting

2:36

the president. So what's the mission? We

2:39

basically have a dual mission. So of

2:41

course, yes, protecting the president and his

2:43

family and also other dignitaries, but then

2:45

of course we have our investigation side.

2:48

And our investigation side focuses on

2:50

protecting the financial systems of the

2:53

US. But as we know,

2:55

that all that touches everything. So, you know,

2:58

indirectly it touches the financial systems on a

3:00

global level. So that's

3:02

basically our main focus is financial cyber

3:04

crimes. And we've got these task teams

3:07

within the US, mainly

3:10

between financials and

3:13

cyber investigations. And

3:15

for the past few years, we've realized that the

3:17

two actually go hand in hand. So is that your

3:19

beat with the Secret Service? My

3:22

daily caseload and couple of responsibilities

3:24

to conduct digital forensic investigations. I

3:26

also project manage criminal cases. So

3:29

that goes from the initial

3:31

intelligence stage, right

3:33

into the get money laundering fraud

3:35

or whatever charges we are looking at, consulting

3:38

with the prosecutors, assessing them, to

3:40

guide the investigation, to assess

3:43

in drafting the charge sheet for prosecution.

3:45

And then ultimately also to apprehend

3:48

these subjects that's responsible for conducting

3:51

the modus operandi. And

3:54

then also supporting the bail application afterwards

3:56

and seeing the case through right to

3:58

prosecution. I've

4:06

heard that a lot of the scams that used to

4:08

be run out of Nigeria and Ghana primarily have moved

4:10

to South Africa. Why is that? South

4:13

Africa is a great infrastructure. The food is cheap.

4:15

The food is really good. Housing

4:18

is very good. And of course, our

4:20

internet speeds are very fast. So

4:22

it's an ideal infrastructure

4:24

to commit these crimes from. They

4:29

initially start off in those countries

4:32

and then use South Africa as a stepping

4:34

stone to get into Europe, Canada, as well

4:36

as the US. You

4:38

might find that they actually apply for

4:40

new passports, new identities. And through, unfortunately,

4:42

corruption, they do get those. Then we

4:44

do find them in those countries that

4:47

they apply for bank accounts using exactly

4:49

those identities. But we have

4:51

seen an influx of opportunity

4:53

members into South

4:55

Africa that is basically nested themselves into

4:57

the communities and set up shop. So

5:02

Mark, we are in the

5:04

United States experiencing a record number

5:06

of sextortion crimes. There's

5:08

also romance scams. But

5:11

from a profiling point of view, are

5:13

sextortion crimes committed by groups or individuals?

5:16

And this matters for where we're going

5:18

in this conversation. For my

5:20

personal viewing experience, it's committed by individuals.

5:22

You might find that they might work

5:24

in small groups, two to three people.

5:27

But that is not considered a confraternity.

5:30

If you want to start talking about

5:32

confraternities, you look at, for example, the

5:35

confraternities started back in the 1970s. Like

5:38

Black Axe, the Buccaneers, the In-laws, the

5:40

Pirates, who's got a

5:42

global presence. OK, so these confraternities,

5:44

these brotherhoods, are sort of euphemisms

5:47

for crime rings. Whatever we

5:49

call them, what's their focus? Phone

5:51

scams, money laundering, email scams.

5:55

Actually I'm going to ask you, what is it? All of the

5:57

above? One, two? Ultimately,

5:59

all of the above. all these crimes come down

6:01

to an element of social engineering.

6:04

But when you look at the extortion

6:06

cases, it's smaller groups, land rangers, or

6:08

it might be two to three people

6:11

working together. So from your

6:13

perspective, what's the difference between a sextortion

6:15

scam and a romance scam? A

6:18

romance scam is long term. You will find

6:20

that some of those victims, if I can call it that, will

6:23

have a virtual relationship for six months

6:25

up until three years, very

6:27

easily. For sextortion, you

6:30

usually find it's not very long. Usually

6:33

the perpetrators that's doing these sextortion

6:35

scams can't speak proper English.

6:39

They might be using Google Translate, but

6:41

the narrative is way shorter than with a

6:43

romance scam. And the reason

6:46

why I say that, I have analyzed

6:48

evidence from both sides. If

6:50

you look at the romance scam site, you will

6:52

find that there's text documents on the computers that

6:55

will have a dialogue or narrative, for example,

6:57

for the morning, one for the afternoon

7:00

and then one for the evening. And they basically

7:02

copy, paste, and modify that a little bit. Sextortion

7:04

on the other side. You just have

7:06

to enjoy the potential victim with

7:09

pictures initially, short

7:11

narrative, and then you need

7:13

to basically social engineer and get that person to

7:15

send you pictures of themselves so you can exploit

7:17

that. Thank you, Mark,

7:20

for once again on this

7:22

show, telling our listeners how to

7:24

commit crimes. I appreciate it. No, it's impossible

7:26

to talk about these things without talking about

7:28

the mechanics of them. And

7:31

because if people better understand the mechanics of

7:33

them, they're less likely to fall for them.

7:39

So it might be obvious, but

7:41

when it comes to sextortion scams

7:44

and romance scams, who

7:46

are more the target? Men

7:48

or women? I do see

7:50

with the sextortion scams that it's young

7:54

males, more than compared to

7:56

young females that actually fall for them.

7:59

In Terms of Romance. Games it can

8:01

be. Any. Age and

8:03

gender or but the I

8:05

do mostly see elderly people.

8:08

Are basically anywhere from fifty five

8:11

plus white through to eighty seven

8:13

years old. If you work with

8:15

his victims, one on one. Hand. If

8:17

you take the victims guidance. And

8:19

you often for effects papers for poor purposes

8:21

of course. You realize

8:23

that these people only two people

8:26

Love. Now. Lonely. The.

8:28

Need someone to speak to him and. If

8:31

by the time with your find them. As

8:34

Lawson. A lot of

8:36

money they inheritance or the last lady times

8:38

on the. Some. Of them axes

8:40

they business has alarms. And

8:43

that's we realize how tp now and

8:45

speak of these people and actually to

8:47

convince him as scientists and but yourself

8:49

or am I scanned is sometimes very

8:51

difficult. I go through phases of creepy.

8:54

realizing. Midst it's not real and. And

8:57

then of course getting very angry and

8:59

disappointed because I falsehood. Also,

9:01

money, with the last little less money, I

9:03

seem to confirm losing anything from two thousand

9:06

to one point eight million dollars. Mark.

9:09

To follow up on that part of your

9:11

job description is. Financial Crimes and

9:13

Digital Forensics. Are you ever

9:16

able to claw that money

9:18

back and your role with

9:20

the Secret Service? To. Be

9:22

due to asset forfeitures. Of

9:24

we're fighting Human A Successes. But

9:26

we are now success. If the banks actually

9:29

a dentist to the money flowing and I

9:31

themselves big the up or something is wrong.

9:34

Last usually how we get involved and in l

9:37

a circle back to the. I

9:41

can't really good successes and we've seen by

9:43

millions of dollars to those victims. But.

9:46

In general, that is not the case. So

9:49

what is of money for these scams?

9:51

Go is managed to support a modest

9:53

lifestyle and to both of the next

9:55

day for time and specific countries off

9:58

been used like Mexico, Turkey on. because

10:01

the financial assistance is so effective and on-com you

10:03

can send forex and within eight

10:05

hours you can clear it and send it on to the

10:07

next bank account. So these cameras

10:09

know that international, if

10:12

I can call it a money laundering

10:15

network, within these confaternities they trust each

10:17

other by our confaternity members and those

10:19

channels are in place. These

10:21

guys will organize bank accounts within hours,

10:23

not days, so they know the proceeds

10:25

of crime is coming. They will

10:28

very quickly get on their WhatsApp groups

10:30

or any other like Telegram groups and

10:32

organize these bank accounts to

10:34

make sure that the proceeds of crime flows

10:37

to where they used to go. But ultimately

10:39

what we are seeing is to finance their

10:42

lifestyles, especially if you start doing observations on these groups

10:44

and you actually see what they spend the money on,

10:47

buying houses for cash, renting it

10:49

out, buying high-end

10:51

vehicles, sending their

10:53

kids to private schools and a

10:55

percentage of those funds actually end up in bank

10:58

accounts in Nigeria which is

11:00

then ultimately used for their retirement. One day

11:02

they all eventually go back. So

11:04

I'm just hearing the African continent's version

11:06

of the Sopranos basically. It's just a

11:09

bunch of mobsters who are getting rich

11:11

and enjoying themselves and have tons of

11:13

cash and nice cars and

11:16

are living the life at the expense of

11:19

victims they have no empathy for. It sound

11:21

about right? Yes, but

11:23

correct. And again that's why

11:25

it gets complicated. Hey

11:36

guys, have you heard about this new thing

11:38

that HackerOne is doing? They're red teaming AI.

11:40

What does that even mean, red teaming AI?

11:42

Well you know what red teaming is, right?

11:44

Yeah, that's when you send in a group

11:46

of, you know, white hat hackers basically to

11:48

go in and try and break something. Right,

11:50

so in this case they're offering their services

11:52

to red team companies that have AI-based products.

11:54

So does that mean they're trying to get

11:56

the AI that companies use to divulge something

11:58

that it shouldn't be divulged? Yeah, 100%. AI

12:01

uses something called large language models, which means

12:03

that they go through huge amounts of data

12:05

in order to be able to come to

12:07

conclusions and be able to interact with customers,

12:09

sort of in a human way. Unfortunately, that

12:11

means that there's a lot of room for

12:13

error, especially if it's trade secrets or something

12:15

involving security. I feel like I could probably

12:17

trick AI with some cool questions. So HackerOne,

12:20

if you're looking for somebody to red team,

12:22

I will red team with them because I

12:24

like it a lot. Well, as we like

12:26

to say, if you can take Bo off

12:28

our hands, please take him. Well, even

12:30

if they were to take Bo off our hands, HackerOne does

12:32

have over 750 active hackers

12:34

and they're ethical. Surely one of them like

12:37

went on a date and ghosted or something

12:39

like that. They're not all ethical. They can't

12:41

be. Yeah, Bo, I'm not sure

12:43

you understand what ethical hacker means. Or ad

12:45

reads. To find out

12:47

more, just go to hackerone.com/AI.

12:51

That's hackerone.com

12:54

slash AI. So,

13:02

Mark, you were recently on

13:04

the National Geographic program, Trafficking.

13:08

It featured a group that has

13:10

been around a long time. Organizations

13:12

like BLAPACS commit crimes

13:15

across borders precisely

13:17

because it turns these cases

13:19

into a multi-jurisdictional mess. One

13:23

that requires international cooperation to

13:26

catch and convict the

13:28

perpetrator. Can you tell us about

13:30

BLAPACS? So

13:32

BLAPACS basically started back in the

13:35

1970s in the universities in Nigeria,

13:37

specifically the province of Benin, not

13:39

the country, the province. And

13:42

initially, those confederaties had a

13:44

specific goal, but they steered

13:46

off from that goal and

13:49

then spread on a global level. And

13:52

they started doing, of course,

13:54

internet crimes, cyber crimes,

13:57

call it what you will. The

14:00

Black Act is synonymous with

14:03

cybercrime. It's spread around the

14:05

world. They've claimed to

14:08

have as many as 30,000 members

14:10

globally. And if you

14:12

look at the group itself, they

14:16

have a hierarchy, they have that

14:18

unconstitution, they have bylaws,

14:20

they have job loss responsibilities.

14:23

You could not, for example, be a

14:26

leader of a zone, as they call

14:28

it. If you haven't been a member for 15 years,

14:32

this basically induction period of five

14:34

days is very violent. But

14:36

also, of course, the reason why these guys, they

14:39

don't leave the conference without either getting

14:41

murdered or... No,

14:44

you just don't leave the conference. If you're part of

14:46

it, you're part of it for the rest of your

14:48

life. You

14:51

have to be, of course, Nigerian. And

14:54

then after the induction, you get a second name.

14:57

So your real name is actually known

14:59

as a Jew name. A Jew?

15:01

G-E-W? They spell it differently.

15:03

It's not Jew, like in Jewish. It's

15:05

a slang word used by them within

15:07

the confaternity to refer to your real

15:09

name, your birth name. Since

15:12

we're on the subject of

15:14

words like Jew, whether it's

15:16

spelled or pronounced differently, in

15:19

America, MAGA is a very specific

15:21

thing. But that has a different

15:24

meaning in Black Acts, too. Right.

15:26

So MAGA is a slang word used

15:28

by the confaternity to refer to victims.

15:31

And when we speak about Jew names, it's actually

15:33

spelled J-U-E. And

15:36

MAGA is not related to

15:38

the Make America Great Again, like, dumb

15:40

American thing. But anyway,

15:42

so Black Acts sounds

15:44

a lot like what is referred

15:46

to popularly as the Mafia. You

15:50

do find elements of violence. And

15:53

of course, then the nefarious acts like

15:55

either cybercrime trafficking, human trafficking, I will

15:58

call it whatever this group is

16:00

called. is actually responsible for or how they

16:02

can gain money or act

16:04

out these criminal acts and are paying

16:06

funds for it. If you look at

16:08

the Marfias within Italy, Black Axe actually

16:11

works with the North La Costa. They

16:13

work together. It's been proven. We've

16:16

seen the social links directly between

16:18

the different Black Axe opportunities on

16:21

a global level. The

16:23

zone, for example, in South Africa has

16:25

direct contact with the zone in North

16:27

America, in Canada, Germany,

16:30

Italy, France, within

16:32

the UK. And all those places are

16:34

actually being sped up into different zones

16:36

and within those zones you get sub

16:38

zones. If you refer to a zone,

16:40

that will be a country. And that

16:43

zone must have a chairman or a leader

16:45

who again must be a member for 15

16:47

years before he can be elected into that

16:49

position. We've identified these guys operating in 38

16:51

countries already. And

16:54

the Interpol actually classified them as the biggest organized

16:56

crime group in the world. There's

17:01

a specific subset of the crimes committed

17:06

by these cartels in

17:09

various African nations, but increasingly out

17:11

of South Africa, because as you

17:13

pointed out, the infrastructure there is

17:15

conducive to doing these kinds of

17:17

crimes. That's a blind mule. A

17:23

blind mule is an unwitting mule.

17:25

It's a mule that is obtained

17:27

through the group, again through social

17:30

engineering, usually romance scams,

17:32

of course, or investment

17:34

scams. And this mule is then

17:37

basically groomed, being

17:39

instructed to fly

17:42

to another country to meet their lover. Their

17:45

flights will be paid for, their accommodation will be

17:47

paid for, pocket money will be given. And

17:50

when they arrive in that country, someone

17:52

meets them and says, well, you know,

17:54

we're sorry, but your lover went off

17:56

to another country. It was an emergency

17:58

meeting. you let this

18:00

bag, can you please take this with

18:02

you and we can buy your next site for

18:04

you to Italy or to France or

18:07

Canada and you need to

18:09

take that bag with you and

18:11

meet that person in

18:13

that country. Of course they

18:15

will be fined that they are actually given bags

18:18

with trucks and

18:20

unfortunately these people are arrested in foreign

18:22

countries, usually elderly

18:24

people, now being

18:26

seen as our traffickers which is not a case

18:28

that is not what they found out for. So

18:38

I got a message on Instagram a little

18:41

over a year ago from somebody saying that

18:43

her dad was a victim of a scam

18:45

and explaining everything that happened and asking if

18:47

there was anything I could to

18:49

do to help. On the National

18:51

Geographic show Traffic, the host was contacted

18:54

by a woman whose father was one

18:56

of these blind mules which

18:58

is eventually what led Mariana Van

19:00

Zeller to you to

19:02

try to help the daughter and her father. Yes.

19:06

So Nicole, tell me what

19:08

happened to your dad. Should

19:10

I start way back at the beginning? Okay so

19:13

after my mom died Nicole tells me

19:16

her father, Rodney, was a down on

19:18

his luck out of work truck driver

19:20

when he started receiving a series of

19:22

emails. It

19:25

seems to be an unbelievable

19:27

stroke of good fortune. The

19:29

previously unknown relatives in Italy

19:32

had left Rodney an inheritance

19:34

of 10.5 million dollars. Tell

19:37

us about the Rodney Baldes scam in Mozambique. So

19:40

basically what happened is this American citizen fell

19:43

for his scam, and he died.

19:45

He died in the investigation and looking at

19:47

the facts we actually realized that this

19:50

group was sitting in Johannesburg putting off

19:52

the scam and within the confidentiality we

19:55

find that these two groups the

19:57

one side is responsible for the drug.

20:00

trafficking and the other side for the cybercrime element.

20:03

So they called them the units for the

20:05

cybercrime element, then spoke

20:07

to the over communicated with the victim

20:10

and pretended to be a family member. So

20:13

as I understand it, there was a there

20:15

was an email from these criminals that claimed that

20:17

there was a distant family member, I think in

20:19

Italy, and they had tried to

20:22

reach out to everybody in that guy's

20:24

extended family and failed. And it turned

20:26

out this person receiving the

20:28

email was being informed that

20:31

he was the next in line for a

20:34

huge inheritance. Yeah. Yeah.

20:37

And so Rodney Baldus was apparently in some

20:39

pretty serious financial distress. He fell

20:41

for this investment scam, and then they

20:43

handed him over unknowingly to

20:45

the traffic he saw. If

20:48

he agreed to travel to Maputo, Mozambique,

20:51

everything would be paid for. He'd

20:53

signed some documents, he then take

20:55

them to Europe to claim is $10.5 million. I know, can

20:59

you imagine $10.5 million? It's

21:01

bonkers. They made

21:03

them in Mozambique, gave him a back

21:06

with heroin, ultimately to be arrested and

21:08

prosecuted for I believe 16 or 17

21:10

years. He's not the only victim who

21:13

fell for this and was prosecuted for

21:15

drug trafficking these numerous others. Also

21:18

fell for exactly the same scam and

21:20

were also prosecuted and now sitting

21:22

in Mozambique and jails. And

21:25

one was about 10 years younger than he was

21:27

and the other was 10 years older. Yeah. So

21:30

one of the takeaways here is that

21:32

you got to be vigilant with your

21:35

elder parents because no matter how much

21:37

you think they're compass mentors and they

21:39

get what's going on, they

21:42

may not. And you got to ask questions.

21:44

Just, you know, you how they say you

21:46

never call, we'll call. For Rodney,

21:48

this was the answer to his prayers. This

21:50

was a solution for his economic problems. Or

21:53

so it seemed he didn't realize

21:55

he'd become an unwitting blind mule

21:58

in a multinational drug. Operator exactly. Whenever

22:01

something's free you're usually get v the

22:03

product to the patsy and doesn't know

22:05

different. Yeah, I mean it's not a

22:07

drug smuggling story, it's a it's human

22:09

trafficking. Yeah, it's heartbreaking. To him in

22:11

the sky was separated from his daughter

22:13

and he may spend the rest of

22:15

his life in jail. You.

22:30

Mentioned earlier that black acts had

22:32

known connections to Cosa Nostra and

22:34

in the story and mozambique. Ah

22:36

that though the older man who

22:39

were is now and prison. Ah,

22:41

there. Was. Bringing a

22:43

large amount of heroin

22:45

was actually international news

22:48

to Italy. Was. That

22:50

an example of the Cosa Nostra

22:52

link or because I understand that

22:54

a lotta heroin does find it's

22:56

way from Afghanistan, down through the

22:58

continent of Africa and up to

23:00

Europe. Which.

23:03

We call the Southern Route. Spies

23:06

is a while widely known

23:08

as the Southern Route we

23:10

are proceeds will be harvested

23:12

in Afghanistan it finds his

23:14

way down to.i Salaam. Tanzania

23:16

has been as Mozambique. Arm

23:18

and a Sunday on is being

23:20

pushed or the into Some advocates

23:22

for the distributed to fiscal countries

23:25

are or directly from also be

23:27

distributed to other countries. I can

23:29

also for sex that's with this

23:31

specific victim that he was to

23:33

it did he do be handed

23:35

over to the goes on with

23:37

the but I can confirm. Is

23:40

that The Black acts as operating in

23:42

Italy working hand in hand with a

23:44

boost on? oh stop. On.

23:46

Known for human trafficking and thought

23:48

trafficking and not the same for

23:50

cyber crimes. We. Do seen the

23:53

other sons? like for example

23:55

in france and germany in the

23:57

uk in canada south african malaysia

24:00

Then why was black axioms

24:02

all responsible for cyber enabled

24:05

or cyber crimes in general?

24:08

Why was black axioms

24:10

all responsible for

24:13

cyber? What

24:25

was black axioms all responsible for? One

24:28

of the things that I find very

24:31

striking about organized crime in Nigeria

24:33

and Angola and South

24:36

Africa and Mozambique and all the places where

24:38

it happens is

24:40

the way in which cyber

24:42

crimes specifically has been

24:45

leveraged. Can you talk about that?

24:48

Correct. Correct. For example, the

24:51

multi-million that initially fought for investment

24:53

scam and then end up being

24:55

arrested for drug trafficking. But

24:57

what we see in general is

25:00

that romance scam victims are being

25:02

used to launder proceeds of crime

25:04

on the international level. I'm

25:06

not talking about hundreds and thousands

25:09

of dollars. I'm talking about millions of

25:11

dollars. These

25:17

victims are also handed off within

25:21

the comfort of eternity. One

25:23

person, for example, will conduct the

25:25

communication with the victim. He

25:28

started narrative almost like a phishing scam, if

25:30

I can call it that. That's why they

25:32

have those narratives within text files that could

25:34

be placed there. And they send

25:37

it to numerous victims to

25:39

initially open up that dialogue. After

25:41

they've done that, then it only

25:44

starts becoming a personalized message from

25:46

the suspects to this potential

25:48

victim. And then, of course, it

25:51

falls over from just email

25:53

communication to telephonic conversations. Whoever

25:56

is in contact with the drama scam victim, David,

25:58

for example, them as

26:00

they are stuck somewhere in some country. Some taxes

26:02

need to be paid or there's inheritance coming through.

26:05

It's going to be a large sum of money

26:07

and then they give them instructions. You need

26:09

to either open up a new bank account

26:12

under this name, a registered as LLC or

26:15

you have to cash this check

26:17

into another bank account to break

26:19

a financial link and for us

26:21

that makes it very difficult. So we find that

26:23

our match count victims are actually being set up

26:25

to orchestrate

26:27

this massive international money

26:29

laundering network without

26:32

them knowing that they are actually

26:34

receiving proceeds of crime or other

26:36

romance count victims that

26:38

are sending their funds to them.

26:41

I've seen romance count victims from three

26:44

different states within the US, not one

26:46

knowing about the other but all three

26:48

of them are assisting to loan each

26:50

other's money out

26:52

of America across the border and

26:54

into bank accounts on an international

26:57

level. So

27:08

when it comes to the cybercrime elements of

27:10

groups like Black Axe, how sophisticated

27:13

or tech savvy are they actually? Are they

27:15

using really cutting edge techniques or is it

27:17

just a bunch of guys behind keyboards? I

27:20

would say 95% of the

27:23

suspects we've arrested have gone to

27:27

or attended some form of

27:29

information technology courses

27:32

either at colleges or universities. We do find

27:34

that if they actually move to South Africa,

27:37

one of the first things they do is

27:39

they apply to the universities and

27:41

specifically to study information technology.

27:44

So the majority of the

27:46

more ridiculous computers, yes, they are tech savvy. They

27:48

know how to set up email servers. They know

27:50

how to set up a domain and host a

27:52

website. They know how to do mass

27:55

spamming. They Know how

27:57

to replicate an online banking profile.

28:01

Got to the brink of society yeah

28:04

abuse my username. A good Angels lock

28:06

into this bankers my bank account and

28:08

be salsa some money because I'm loving

28:10

informed and country they might be not

28:13

be recognized. Max be. On

28:15

Fox. Not a suspects are

28:17

actually control is that website so we the

28:19

victim logs in. And they want to

28:22

add a big decisions. Like. A ceaseless beat

28:24

them. Lobby in with a lot in for what

28:26

I'd be, I trust and so forth. And.

28:29

That they somebody a new email address

28:31

but seem to be from a specific

28:33

bank or contact of be be sent

28:35

to the victim. Sweaty that on the

28:37

from the legal team from the specific

28:39

banks do not need a power of

28:41

attorney you have to by twenty thousand

28:43

dollars and then again to pick them

28:45

by two thousand dollars is Us goes

28:48

on and on and on. Mark.

28:55

And at the risk of helping the bad

28:57

guys, I'd like to drill down a little

29:00

bit on specifics. As my hope

29:02

is to help everybody else. To. Scammers

29:04

have multiple nearly identical sesame a

29:06

profile so that one gets shut

29:08

down. They have other targets in

29:10

development. Yes,

29:12

That is a case. What I

29:14

see from analyzing. Then it

29:17

on A given hims i find numerous

29:19

social media propulsive Facebook he can be

29:21

is a gram it can be of

29:24

course dating website. And you

29:26

will find that and love the bulls

29:28

bicycles and then usually I find that

29:30

use a nicer boss was also which

29:32

of course record lot into because that's

29:34

a a different legal places to produce

29:37

either read it all the facts showing

29:39

that to us so we find multiple

29:41

as you so outdated has been created

29:43

but for the listeners if you want

29:45

to confirm if it is actually. A

29:48

fake profile steaks a picture and run

29:50

it through a website. called them I.

29:53

Dot com Semis. Yeah,

29:55

tig a sneaky picture of someone at the

29:57

supermarket and then find out who they are.

29:59

It was a kid be used for and

30:01

I'm surprised it's available online business It In

30:03

my opinion, it should be illegal for for

30:05

regular people to be able to use this

30:07

tool. But. It's there when I

30:09

checked people out on Pim eyes, it's

30:11

not always clear. Cause. I have

30:14

checked out scammers on there. Is

30:16

not always clear. Who

30:18

they are or where they are because

30:21

you can't tell from the amount of

30:23

information they give you and this is

30:25

a very technical question but. Does.

30:27

Demise tell you that if you pay the sea. So

30:30

I think we took him up to the for

30:32

both sides because I'm on the kids and eyes

30:35

and that's ten i which is t I n.

30:37

eye.com o and I'm looking

30:40

at Pim Ice? Yes! To.

30:42

Basically say as he birds to

30:44

the got off of photographs of

30:46

bitches and it will show you

30:48

immediately he slides pitcher was used

30:51

on any other website or you

30:53

might even find that bitches linked

30:55

or any to some scan website

30:57

be people are saying hurts The

30:59

speech was being used to defraud

31:01

potential victims. So

31:10

for the social media profiles of his

31:12

as are using are they from compromise

31:14

social media accounts the blonde actual people

31:16

or do they tend to just be

31:18

complete separate kitchens? Are those applications?

31:20

I mean we know venturing into artificial

31:23

intelligence and of course we have seen

31:25

that the suspects on using that to

31:27

the benefits but it can be purchased

31:30

from. Social media sites

31:32

that they did coffee maker do

31:34

searches and can just feel normal

31:36

have web sites where the coins

31:38

these pictures as I also themselves.

31:40

Go. Since they own of the source

31:42

of days as proceed to confirm it.

31:45

Those bitches have been used on other

31:47

sites or has been flagged been used

31:49

for that always comes over and six

31:51

forcible sample I do their own on

31:53

with. It's quite interesting when I go

31:55

to the time devices when these subjects

31:57

are recent. If I run the specific

31:59

bitches. They can can just it doesn't

32:01

matter of weeks and from all the

32:03

internet. That. Tells you that

32:05

they do know. Those. Bitches haven't

32:07

been used before or is not. Normally

32:10

circulated and been used in

32:12

general The Internet. So. That's

32:15

quite interesting. And then of course, out.

32:18

From only fans we do see

32:20

that they do copy pictures from

32:22

our defense because it's subscribers site

32:24

break so he conscious of find

32:26

the speeches by going says prof

32:28

thousands of citing images you actually

32:30

have to be subscribers. Or

32:32

we also see the values of

32:34

those beaches which again is not

32:37

normally circulated on the internet sites.

32:40

It's better for them to use I

32:42

speeches if I actually want our success.

32:45

And. That I guess. And that's what's so hard

32:48

because we're reporting one account in up. Really get

32:50

much done? Can it sets down? There's ten more

32:52

to go. Is

32:58

there a way through the

33:00

law enforcement angle? They do

33:02

things that we can get

33:04

to other governments to better

33:06

protect our people who are

33:08

falling victim to these. Bromance

33:11

scams and. Blind

33:13

meal scams. Some.

33:16

Noise falls within international level. Is

33:19

actually working together as it all

33:21

for. Also, from the middle of

33:23

last year we requested Interpol to

33:25

assist us to. Specific

33:27

countries to work with Us

33:29

start. Focusing. On

33:31

specific organized crime groups on a

33:34

global level. Is I operating

33:36

on a global level if we need

33:38

to start doing that? So Interpol assistant

33:40

us and be got together with icing

33:43

other different countries and we are talking

33:45

about what we are and I shared

33:47

with what they'll see. Of

33:49

course really to my shirt be

33:51

cover our legal idols and we

33:53

can't double or venture into. Intelligence

33:56

Ai because he gets his club. You

33:58

cynical the floor. That.

34:00

Will be seen as yes I, even as. But

34:02

unfortunately if you live on our

34:04

international level, These. Places are

34:07

sometimes by slant. Told.

34:09

Salt by countries asked. Specifically

34:12

for my son around a team of

34:14

offs. Imagine. That country

34:16

I mean this is to go through

34:18

all these diplomatic channels that paperwork since

34:21

meaning Alchemy race with the correct apartments

34:23

and thing highly up off the beaten

34:25

the be able to indicate with a

34:27

department of justice and then only and

34:30

I saw to the base have been

34:32

up. Prices were as I don't want

34:34

an officer with interviewees. Brightness.

34:36

Of be not get it signed off and they

34:38

service. Or. The service providers such

34:41

as the given ideals of timelines ability

34:43

at But I also get a very

34:45

good example of we See You As

34:47

Victims were defrauded The thoughts in an

34:50

up with a confidante. The mean that

34:52

in South Africa. With. A

34:54

purchase two houses and it's a

34:56

Ford Mustang. So these two houses

34:58

were born in one of those

35:00

upmarket, eerie us actually. One.

35:03

Of the. Most. Expensive per

35:05

square meters. Areas on the

35:07

African continent and he bought this or

35:10

with Bessie surprise from we Are that's

35:12

always thought of that can be sick

35:14

Iceland Tony was prosecuted. As

35:16

a first time offender for fifteen

35:18

years. Because seven months.

35:21

And. I think is really fast as you

35:23

think. This is crossing.

35:26

Lots of countries by different continents.

35:30

We. Talked about how well law enforcement

35:32

can help with the process of identifying.

35:35

These guys have one thing I'm wonder

35:37

year is what's in social media companies

35:39

do if anything to prevent the sort

35:41

of crime Other platforms. Will

35:43

let me start by saying that are we

35:45

actually have a lot of initiative. speed the

35:47

public upon a sick to work together. When.

35:50

Away Forces work together with these companies

35:52

on by the creating awareness or informing

35:54

that will fall off of what be

35:56

all seeds. I'm as I need. Stop

35:59

eating out images. One

36:01

of maturity. I also do some

36:03

of the past two years that

36:05

a lot of these companies I've

36:07

started drinking. the personnel was actually

36:09

responsible for those were follies. Well

36:11

for these positions, be of those

36:13

social media companies. Be disappointed these

36:15

people didn't really a source for

36:17

law enforcement. And what about banks?

36:20

I. Do see. a lot of Korea away has

36:22

been created by the banking sector because an

36:24

infidel is not a bank. Losing money is

36:26

the customers. But I do

36:28

sees as a lot of planks not

36:31

just me you waste but on a

36:33

global level are putting in the initiative

36:35

someplace are creating a weakness around that

36:37

Avoiding the customers have all the specific

36:39

scans by altered how they are being

36:41

conducted. I'm. All about creating awareness

36:44

as the saying this for years on A

36:46

massive advocate for. Why

36:48

be the actors and actually have to

36:50

chase down criminals if he can prove

36:52

feats. Normal citizens out

36:54

the to actually know exactly what

36:57

into Buffalo to default and actually

36:59

to prevent them from using them

37:01

out and money. Our. Lawyer.

37:04

And, etc. You

37:06

know juice can say Hallelujah to. Mark.

37:21

In the beginning of the interview you said

37:23

that you have were having an unstable connection

37:26

to the internet. Any mention that you're gonna

37:28

get your family to stop using certain services

37:30

in one of them. Was. Tic

37:32

Toc It's out. A lot of

37:34

people have specifically pointed to Tick

37:37

Tock and said things like: Tic

37:39

Toc has given China a conduit

37:41

into every home where it's being

37:43

used now. You're. In law

37:46

enforcement you are a digital forensics

37:48

person. You. Know how these things

37:50

work. Does. It trouble you

37:52

that Tic Toc could use every

37:54

single account as a as a

37:56

tool for listening and spying. On

38:00

go by. that's why above my

38:02

my bike ride. Fair. Enough.

38:05

What's. I would like to mention

38:07

the fact that if you do get any

38:09

application that you can install on your mobile

38:11

phone doesn't matter if is the Android platform

38:13

all the Apple platform. Although these these

38:16

fitting in place for those applications isn't

38:18

It goes through a process of being

38:20

approved to be allowed in the play

38:22

store for example of for used to

38:24

download and use it you actually look

38:26

at the permissions of that specific application.

38:28

you will find that it's. Do.

38:31

Asked you to have access

38:33

to a to context to

38:35

author storage areas with in

38:37

your mobile phone which of

38:39

course molasses of information. Sober.

38:42

And but I would definitely recommend having

38:44

a look at what these specific i

38:46

actually do get access to what you

38:49

and now the application to be able

38:51

to do a new mobile phone. Hallelujah!

38:55

Site Guys Enough with the however yes

38:57

it's grim. Let's just say it for

38:59

yes he have you seen as. A

39:03

remark We can't thank you enough for

39:05

the time you spent with as the

39:07

wisdom you shared. And.

39:16

Now it's time for Tinfoil Swan.

39:19

Are paranoid take away to keep you safe,

39:21

on and offline. A

39:23

ball with were you the one that

39:25

broke this review of me online? What

39:27

in page know Glass Door. I mean

39:29

there's a lot I could say but

39:31

no I didn't Travis as you ever

39:33

in a review on Glass Door. I

39:36

plead the City node. Okay, maybe we

39:38

should say what is this faster as

39:41

a crowdsourced site where people talk smack

39:43

about workload for companies and sometimes or

39:45

dragoon didn't a raving about them. Glass

39:47

Door To started adding real names to

39:50

user profiles without permission or the weather's

39:52

know was you about me on Glasgow.

39:54

don't actually show your name publicly, but

39:57

an event of a breach or you

39:59

know, Adams. I tried a question

40:01

is not is a company will be

40:03

breached, but when it raises a more

40:05

important issue namely if you post on

40:07

line it's possible maybe probable that it

40:10

can be traced back to you. Haven't

40:13

been done before. I can tell you that

40:15

Snow Fitness. The Blessed

40:17

or to news publicly available information

40:19

to tire identity tier accounts. you

40:21

have to assume that just about

40:24

anyone can do the same. On

40:26

the bright side, maybe up everyone

40:28

gets a trophy. Generation will stops

40:30

laughing their own shortcomings off on

40:32

their bosses. spoken like a truly

40:34

functional boss When when you sign

40:36

up for service with the expectation

40:38

of anonymity and then the company

40:41

changes his mind, It's an object

40:43

lesson. Companies can and will change

40:45

their privacy and data policies. Whenever

40:47

they want to and when they don't,

40:49

eight the you're sharing is leaving a

40:51

trail of breadcrumbs back to hundred percent.

40:53

One of the biggest miss on the

40:55

internet is at your data can be

40:57

anonymised sad but true to careful with

40:59

your post and be careful where you

41:02

post and that's or tinfoil Swan. What

41:10

the heck with Adam? Lebanese production Wow

41:12

Dreams in photos online and Adam levine.com

41:14

and on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook at

41:16

Adam. Take Levin.