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Dan Roth 0:01 Coming up on episode 179 of wheel bearings. It's a crowdsource show this week with live listeners getting a chance to join us in creating wheel bearings. We're driving the 2021 Hyundai Sonata n line kiya k five x and GMC Canyon 84. We talk about listeners cars too and then move on to answering some questions about Tesla's latest infotainment recall our interview about automotive advertising with Henry Gomez from zubi advertising and the brief brothers podcast comes up next, and we finish up with some suggestions for future guests. That's all head on episode 179 of wheel bearings. Did you know you can support wheel bearings directly? Head to patreon.com slash wheel bearings media and you can become a patron today. Your contributions will help fund the platforms and tools we use to bring the podcast to you and exclusives and improvements are already on the way thanks to your generosity. So if you want to be a part of an automotive podcast, like no other had to patreon.com slash wheel bearings media. Before we start this week's show, we wanted to thank and welcome our newest Patreon patrons. So Greg Dorn, Steve Johnson, Henry Gomez and Alan libtech. We appreciate your support of wheel bearings now on with the show. This is wheel bearings. I'm Dan Roth from Forbes. Sam Abuelsamid 1:28 I'm Sam Abuelsamid. From guidehouse insights, Rebecca Lindland 1:31 and Rebecca Lindland from Rebecca drives. Dan Roth 1:33 And we're Unknown Speaker 1:35 all y'all are all y'all. Dan Roth 1:38 So we're doing a live episode. Sam Abuelsamid 1:40 Hello to the gang. Yeah, Dan Roth 1:42 the gang. Gang, meddling kids. Let's talk about what we're driving. And I haven't looked at the sheet. So Rebecca, I'm gonna put you on the spot. What are you Rebecca Lindland 1:53 what are you doing her thing? So I had the 2021 Hyundai Sonata end line. So I actually had this car almost exactly a year ago, I but just a non end line version of it. This was delightful. So a couple things happened. First of all, it was just like crazy. What they called glowing yellow. I felt like it was more like really weird funky goldish color. Dan Roth 2:23 Use it like dehydrated yellow. Like Rebecca Lindland 2:27 it was very cold. And it's you know what's interesting about it, because I noticed on the on the website, you know how there's always the they they say you know, the color may be a little bit different based on your monitor or something. Maybe it was my monitor, but the color was nothing like it on the website. It's but it was a really cool, fabulous color. So a couple things happen. So most of my neighbors, I because I had to meet them and assure them that I wasn't a drug dealer. They know what I do for a living you know, constant parade of cars. So my first day we're looking and he said, Oh, what infinity Do you have this week? And then another neighbor said is that a Lexus? I mean, this thing was just that just the styling of it was gorgeous. The the the interior was gorgeous. The color was gorgeous. The a pillar was not gorgeous. I kept hitting my head or like ducking to get in because of course the seat is up close. And what's disappointing cuz I was trying to remember if it was accurate, or Honda's or both. They have the the seat that automatically goes back for you. And show when you get it, you'll win as you get out of the car. The seat moves back a little bit for you so you can exit out easier. Dan Roth 3:49 I would recommend haven't moved in this nada. You know Rebecca Lindland 3:53 what, maybe it wasn't. Sam Abuelsamid 3:55 I don't think I've ever seen a sonata. Dan Roth 3:57 That's one of those things that like every, every time I have it, I shut it off. Rebecca Lindland 4:02 Right. But this time, I would have liked it. Dan Roth 4:07 This would have been a good one. Rebecca Lindland 4:08 But so there's a couple things that are different about the end line. First of all, all the other versions of this Sonata have the 1.6 liter four cylinder turbo engine. This has a 2.5 liter turbo 290 horsepower, 311 foot pounds of torque. And it has a wet clutch. So maximizing that torque. So Dave, there you go. There's my little engineering talk for a Sam Abuelsamid 4:37 clutch. Dual Clutch, Unknown Speaker 4:40 eight speed. Rebecca Lindland 4:42 speed. Yeah, Sam Abuelsamid 4:43 yeah, that's it. This is the new DCT that they launched this year. They put it in the velociter n the Elantra n and now in the Sonata n line. Rebecca Lindland 4:56 It's really good. I mean not all DC tees are created equal. So actually Was I drove one of the first Porsche 911, PD K's. And those have come a long way as well. And this one is just really, really good. I actually had the opportunity. You know, we talk a lot about how we don't get a chance to really drive cars a lot because we don't have places to go anymore. But in this case, I did. I had to I had to deliver something to a friend of mine out on Long Island. Drugs. Exactly. Dan Roth 5:32 I don't know who it is, but he had a bridge for it and then come back up through the Barros, so they can't catch you never the same route twice. Rebecca Lindland 5:39 Exactly. I took different routes back so Sam Abuelsamid 5:45 falls to try out. Rebecca Lindland 5:48 Over the Whitestone back, Unknown Speaker 5:50 it was all good. Rebecca Lindland 5:53 You know me Oh my God, I Dan Roth 5:54 gotta keep my dog's neck open, hopefully. Yeah. Rebecca Lindland 6:00 Anyway, so I got a chance to put about 200 miles on the car. I and a couple things. I got 32 miles per gallon, which was amazing. But that thing was so happy at like 85 miles an hour. It just the power of it. I didn't have a lot of traffic, which is to me is always when you really need that torque. But it was just enough. I mean, it was just, you know, going over the Whitestone bridge, there's there's always construction and such and there's big trucks and everything and just wanting to get around them. It was just delightful. It was so much fun to drive. I really really didn't want that car to go away. So I loved it. infotainment system wise, it was very, very good. The I feel like I've had very good experiences consistently with the Sonata. This had a 10 a 10 inch screen to it, which was really, really good. Android Auto actually worked very well had both the native language capabilities as well as Android Auto. I've gotten better at using Google assist for sure. But it just was easy to use. It was it was very intuitive and wireless charging. So you know, I just I really liked it. I am from wireless CarPlay or wireless. Android Auto. No, no, I don't like it did not the Pacifica Sam Abuelsamid 7:18 Pacifica has it. And a number of other cars have driven recently have wireless but not the Hyundai's and Kias don't yet. Rebecca Lindland 7:27 Yeah, it's getting more popular. And I mentioned Pacific guys just because I, I had one of those this week as well. But I'm not going to talk about that. There's a Dan Roth 7:33 lot of bikes to move this. Rebecca Lindland 7:35 A lot of that moves a lot of dry, you Sam Abuelsamid 7:37 could fit a lot of stuff. Unknown Speaker 7:42 back. Dan Roth 7:44 I remember when you talk about when you talk about your drive to Newark, the port of entry. Rebecca Lindland 7:54 I say nothing. Anyway, just look at my notes real quick. A couple things. So my brother Larry is visiting from actually from California. And he is six foot three blond hair, blue eyes will look exactly like and he so he actually got into the passenger side of the Sonata, and was able i mean he's got mile long legs, and he was able to stretch all the way back and still had room. It's not electric, which is unfortunate. So that's it the passengers manual, the manual, not my brother, manual adjustments. The seat is that the passenger seat is not electric. But he fit really well in it. You know, there wasn't a lot of room in the back. Once he was he was situated but there was plenty of room behind me. But just you know it had a nice it had a nice comfortable cabin in there for both of our sizes, which is always nice. I endline again has its it's mostly loaded, it's missing a few things. The limited has a few other features, but really you're getting just about everything that you could possibly want in this thing. I one thing I wanted to ask guys, so the Hyundai digital key that didn't do anything for me. I didn't understand why I would want that. Unknown Speaker 9:15 Well you have Rebecca Lindland 9:16 to like thing like with your wallet? Sam Abuelsamid 9:18 Well, you have to you have to set up the app and pair it on your phone and pair it to the car. And then it's it's NFC or actually, it's both NFC and Bluetooth LE Rebecca Lindland 9:32 word. I just didn't understand why I would want it. Dan Roth 9:35 I wouldn't know what this thing is what it Rebecca Lindland 9:37 was. So it's so it's a card that opens the car. Right and starts the car and so Sam Abuelsamid 9:46 Oh, I thought you met them using your phone as the key. Rebecca Lindland 9:49 No, no, it's the car. Like I wish I had Sam Abuelsamid 9:52 an NFC card. It's the same as the the cards you get in hotels now your key cards for the hotel, so It's an NFC card, and you just tap it on the door handle. And Rebecca Lindland 10:05 well, and the reason I bring it up, because I mean, obviously, I keep the key in my bag, and it does that. But obviously, judgment free zone, if you want to carry a bag, it's fine, but most guys don't. And so I was wondering if you put the card in your wallet, can you like just like kind of Sam Abuelsamid 10:22 not just as long as the card is like on the outer edge, you know, outermost, you know, if you've got a stack of cards in your wallet, as long as it's like, near the edge, and then you tap that side, it should work. Yeah, but you know, I don't see that as a particularly useful thing. Dan Roth 10:41 any better than having the fob in your pocket. Sam Abuelsamid 10:45 You don't have to carry the fob with you, chances are, you're gonna have your wallet on you. Rebecca Lindland 10:49 Okay? It's sort of like a, it's a good, it's a good solution for a guy if he was, Sam Abuelsamid 10:56 if you're, if you're carrying, you know, if you've got the fault, if you're carrying a purse or a bag, and you've got the fob in there, then you know, you don't even have to reach out, grab your wallet and tap it or anything. Like my wife, she keeps her car keys in her purse, you know, for her civic. And they never come out of her purse unless she's changing versus, you know, she just walks up to the car and pulls the handle, it's unlocked. And as soon as she walks away, it locks. So, you know, I think, personally, I think that's actually more convenient than an NFC card. Dan Roth 11:30 See, this is this is the the failure to think about things from a design thinking perspective. They didn't try to actually use that, or, I mean, they did, but maybe they just like the idea, okay, that we can put it on an NFC card inside somebody's wallet. But you've just created extra steps versus the fog that we've had for like 10 years now, where you just walk up and grab, Sam Abuelsamid 11:53 some people don't want to carry the fog, because you know, modern fobs are kind of getting big and bulky. And people don't want to stick those in their pocket. Dan Roth 12:00 I get that. So there are other solution is to use your phone, Sam Abuelsamid 12:06 right? But what you're almost certainly gonna take with you, Dan Roth 12:08 yeah, you also have to poke at the screen to make that unlock Sam Abuelsamid 12:11 the cracks, you know, you don't know, okay, if you, if you haven't paired to your car, you just tap it on the door handle, just like you would if you're doing tap to pay with Apple Pay or Android. All right Google pay, you just tap it on the door handle and it unlocks. Dan Roth 12:24 See, that's a better solution. Because you've already got your phone, you probably got it in your hand and adding extra steps where you've got to take the thing out and tap, like, it's not too much of an idea. Sam Abuelsamid 12:34 But you know, what, what Hyundai did here is they basically, you know, rather than making an editorial decision that they just put everything in there and said here, here's you can do it with the font and that's you know, what the car can do with your phone, whatever you want. Pick your pick, you know, and so yeah, Dan Roth 12:53 that that's valid enough right that's that's how we talked about I drive where you can scratch on it with your finger you could do the edge do gestures in midair or touch the screen so however you're most comfortable I guess getting into the car. Yeah, you can do it. It does. I don't know like I'm not comfortable with the idea of using my phone for it just because I'm sure I lose my phone somewhere and then I'll be locked out of the car because I'm an idiot but the card seems like not terrible like even if you just want to tuck it into your wallet and and have it like as a as an alternative. So if you are you lose your keys Sam Abuelsamid 13:29 as a backup, you know if you if you leave your fob somewhere, you know you'll you can have that with you probably. Dan Roth 13:37 Yeah. So, okay. I just thought you were like, making a blanket statement about how guys like we do something particularly with our wallets. And I was curious. Rebecca Lindland 13:48 I would never make a blanket statement about men. Dan Roth 13:51 It's perfectly fine. As Rebecca Lindland 13:54 much variety. There's much breadth and depth. Dan Roth 14:00 So it's astounding to me that Hyundai's making performance cars now given like good credible performance cars that don't really give up anything to the usual suspects right like this. To me. The Hyundai's and Kias I've driven lately really seemed like they could compete with stuff like this. This seems like a feat with like a Jetta g Li or, Sam Abuelsamid 14:25 oh, well, this is what happens when you hire Albert Biermann is your head of r&d Dan Roth 14:28 when you hire off the Germans Yeah, yeah. It's It's It's impressive that they've, they've invested in it because it's not that they couldn't do it. It's just that it just takes effort and investment. Rebecca Lindland 14:43 Because, well, the price point so this thing is was 33,300 they had a couple of options on it. So it topped out at just about 35,000 delivered. And you know the Hyundai starts at about 24,000 so you're getting some much power in so many features, you know, it's there's this huge sunroof heated seats the they don't have ventilated seats, and you have to go to the limited for that but you've also got the five year 60,000 mile warranty. You know, this was an interesting driving this car was interesting because people couldn't identify as I mentioned. So people would ask me Oh, what is that? And I would say it's Hyundai Sonata and everybody asked me are hunting Oh, is Hyundai Really? Are they really good cars? And, you know, I assured them that they were but then also when you look at how much of the warranty that they've done, you know, the five year 60,000 100,000 mile warranty, they've got five years of roadside assistance I mean, the list goes on they really stand behind their product, but they do still continue to have that perception issue. So I don't know maybe these kind of performance vehicles I will help them overcome that but I loved I loved it. I thought it was really really good and and just you know, really cool. I again, we talked about this before, but I would have loved to have seen this as a hidden hatchback just for more practicality. I you know, I do think that it I'd love to see more sedans go that route because they do compete so much for utility with the SUVs in the States. But overall, I was just absolutely delighted by this thing. Dan Roth 16:21 I like the seats. Seats is pretty sure Rebecca Lindland 16:23 the seats are really really sharp. I'll put some pictures on because I my picture showed up now and and I want I hopefully the color will come through because it was really cool. Dan Roth 16:32 It's a cool color on the website. I was poking around while you were talking about it. Because you know my favorite is the the Sonata plugin. so far. Sam Abuelsamid 16:42 Which color did you have Rebecca the Rebecca Lindland 16:45 glowing yellow? Yeah. Dan Roth 16:47 glowing yellow. Sam Abuelsamid 16:49 It does glow. It does. Rebecca Lindland 16:52 But it was very easy to identify, you know, Sam Abuelsamid 16:54 you have you have your choice of half a dozen monochromatic shades. And glowing yellow. Or Calypso red. Dan Roth 17:01 Which grey would you like, sir? Yes. Rebecca Lindland 17:04 But you know, the interior features were really nice. I mean, I don't know, I just thought they did a really good job with it. You know, I guess I can for 33,000 you got leather, suede seats, read touches, even the pedals or, you know, kind of a cool metal finish on them. Nice topstitching. It's just you know, there was just a lot of really, really good things about the digital dash. And so I it's a fantastic vehicle. I actually saw one it was, I was I was coming home late a couple nights ago. And as I came off of the exit for 95. There's a McDonald's right there. And it caught my eye because there was cars there. And it was one of the few things that was still open and, and there was one in there. And my first thought I was actually driving the Pacifica and my first thought was, oh my gosh, did I leave the keys in it? And somebody was like, I was only like two miles from home. And, you know, we were just talking about like, I tried out the digital key and everything. And I'm flying down route one, I'm going like 55 miles an hour, which I've already gotten a ticket on that route. I was like, Well, you know what, if they sold the car, there's nothing I can do about it. But fortunately they can obviously, but it just it really caught my eye. It's such a cool color. And I think I just I thought they just did a great job on this car. Dan Roth 18:26 I didn't realize Greenwich was such a high crime area. What is that? Like? That's Darien right? Like the McDonald's is in 19? Rebecca Lindland 18:35 Oh, no. No, this is actually is isn't Greenwich. But the number one way that cars are stolen in Greenwich is people leave their keys in their car because they take them out of their pocket. Right. Tommy Hilfiger had like three cars stolen one. Dan Roth 18:51 I mean, when you're trying to figure out like, what's your $80,000 Sam Abuelsamid 18:55 car missing in the Dan Roth 18:57 box the tissues? Rebecca Lindland 18:59 In through his gated they got into his gate and Dan Roth 19:03 his house where he might leave. Rebecca Lindland 19:07 So you can look online and his What? his ex wife just sold her house here too. Dan Roth 19:11 Oh, sure. I don't have any multiple 10s of millions. Rebecca Lindland 19:15 But there are I mean, that is that is the the easiest way that people steal cars is you just don't think about it. You leave you leave your keys in your car. And one of the things I tell people because it is a seriously it's a problem here but I remind them if their mirrors flip up to have that as a setting because then you can just look outside. If you can see your car from your house. You can look outside and know whether your car is locked by your mirrors. That's pretty good. Thank you. Dan Roth 19:42 I like it. A handy tip. All right, let's move on. Sam. Last week when we did the show, I teased it that you were going to talk about the key k five so now we've all had the K five Sam Abuelsamid 19:54 Yeah, I had I had a different variation and this of course is the you know the corporate cousin to the Sonata. You know, the K five, and it's it's key is variation on the same platform. And it's also the same platform that's used for the Sorento crossover that we talked about. Back in early December, I think. And, yeah, I love this. I love this car. It's, it's Rebecca Lindland 20:18 different than ours. Sam Abuelsamid 20:19 I had the E x. So I think you guys both had the GT line, Unknown Speaker 20:23 right? Yes. Dan Roth 20:24 So yeah, gt line, which is what the S l s, something s, which is not the GT no different. The GT line is, is has the flashy red seats and the spiffy reels and stuff. And it's, it's like a value sort of performance ish. Sam Abuelsamid 20:44 Yeah, you know, it's like, it's like, when you look at some of the premium, you know, you look at BMW, they have m cars, and then they have M Sport, and AMG line, and AMG, you know, so you get the looks of the performance model. But without all the fat that go faster bits, so you don't get the 2.5 liter turbo, for example, you get has the base 1.6 liter turbo, which actually I think is a fantastic engine, you know, I, you know, drove this thing for a week, and it was just, it was awesome, you know, it's, for an engine that size, it 180 horsepower is fairly typical of, you know, a turbo modern turbo four cylinder, you know, that, that's, you know, that roughly that displacement, but this one, just feels really good, it's smooth. Yeah, it's it, you know, got a lot of low end torque me, they all do. But, you know, this one, just something about it just felt particularly good to drive, I really enjoyed driving it. And I love the way this car looks, the design, it's, you know, this new iteration of key is design language. You know, and it's a lot similar in a lot of ways to the, to the new Sorento, you know, you've got this, rather than, you know, on the last two iterations of the Optima, you know, the, the grill was, you know, kind of laid back and kind of flush with the rest of the facia, and, you know, the whole thing laid back, I like, I enjoyed the look of that, but this one, you know, is a new, a new look, you know, it's kind of concave. You know, I like the way that, you know, the, the elements that make up the grill itself, you know, these little, almost like little shovels, have a look like, when you look at them up close. And, you know, the, the shape of the lights, you know, it's, it's got a really contemporary, modern, unique look to it, you know, it doesn't look quite like anything else. But without being overstyled. Yeah, and, Dan Roth 22:48 yeah, that's, that's really tough to do, right, like, get all the gingerbreads you want in there. So that it is one of those designs, and key is really good at it lately, where it gives you a little bit extra, the more you look at it, the longer you spend time with it, the more things you find that just delight you, right. And a huge I get to do that and be subtle about it is, that's that's the trick. And that's one of the things that I noticed too, is like, Man, that is just, it's, it doesn't matter what it costs at a certain point, it's just a masterpiece, no matter what, and I feel like the K five is quite Sam Abuelsamid 23:21 good. And, you know, another really interesting detail that they did, you know, the last two generations of the Optima, you know, they both had, you know, this chrome strip that went up to a pillar across the top of the glass and then down the C pillar, and then ended at the chocolate. Now on the K five that actually continues around, all you know, all the way under the lower perimeter of the rear glass and wraps around and goes back around the other side. So it basically one continuous piece of chrome trim from one a pillar to the other, wrapping all the way around the car. And I think, you know, again, it's it's a little detail, but when you notice it, it's like, oh, yeah, I mean, they really thought about this, you know, and they Dan Roth 24:04 finished it. It's funny how just, we're just suckers for Chrome. But it's it was it's really well done because it's one of those subtle things, you see it and it just again, it's like that that was deliberate. And so it's just nicely nicely executed. Sam Abuelsamid 24:21 Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah, the the K five is available with all wheel drive, unlike the Sonata, which I think is still front wheel drive only. But you know, it was the one I had was front wheel drive. See where Rebecca Lindland 24:38 we had the all wheel drive? Sam Abuelsamid 24:39 Yeah. Yeah, okay. Yeah. So, this this one was front wheel drive. You know, you know, even with the the torque You know, this engine makes you know, torque steer was not a problem. It was it was fine. It was all you know, it has a great, great balance of ride and handling. The interior really well executed on this thing. You know, in a lot of ways, very similar to the, to the Sonata, and you've got you know, this across the top of the dash you know, as the plastic enclosure that encompasses the the centered touchscreen, and the instrument cluster, you know, wraps around wraps all the way around. It's, you know, everything about it was was just wonderful to spend time in, you know, I really enjoyed this car. And you know, the E x is the the second from the top trim, so it's in between the GT line and the GT so it still has has the 1.6 liter that's in the in the GT line. But it's a little bit you know, a little bit higher trim level in the than the GT line. And see every I just, I really enjoyed it, you know, the backseat is huge. The chocolate, as you said is kind of small, you know, so there's actually a lot of room in the trunk. The opening is small, which makes it a pain if you want to carry anything large hatchbacks, Dan Roth 26:06 fellas, hatchbacks? Absolutely, you know, Rebecca Lindland 26:09 especially hidden ones, you know, you can do them really subtle. Cream like 1970s Vega hatchback. Yeah, Dan Roth 26:18 do them really nicely. Just do it. Do it like the stinger. Just just clip the notes from from the other car in the lineup, and you'll be fine. I have 100% faith figured out. I think when we talked about it the last time I hadn't gotten the wireless CarPlay to work on it. And so I spent a little bit more time with the K five fiddling with that. And their infotainment, you know, and I'm sure it's really similar to the Hyundai infotainment it's just really good. And once I figured out how to connect the phone, you only have to do it once it connects real fast. And there's the the wireless charging pad and so Sam Abuelsamid 26:57 is there a wireless CarPlay in there? Unknown Speaker 26:59 Yeah. Okay, so Dan Roth 27:00 it has that little spot for the phone that you just took. It's Sam Abuelsamid 27:02 got a wireless charger? Dan Roth 27:04 Yeah. No wireless CarPlay. Okay, the Sam Abuelsamid 27:07 one the x did not have the wireless CarPlay. Okay. or Android? Dan Roth 27:15 But it was, because that's the thing, like if you're gonna have the wireless pad, but you still have to plug it in to use CarPlay it kind of defeats the purpose of it. Yes. Sam Abuelsamid 27:23 Yeah. You know, unless you're not actually using CarPlay or Android Auto. I mean, if you're, if you're using the radio, which apparently some people still do. Or some people still listen to the radio. Or if you want to listen to the sounds of nature, you do have the sounds of nature. Dan Roth 27:41 Nature, how are they What's your favorite Sam Abuelsamid 27:44 little video went through the six options I posted it on, on Instagram. Rebecca Lindland 27:50 I couldn't make them stop at one point, I had to turn the car off. Because Sam Abuelsamid 27:58 if you switch it to any media source, you'll it'll turn turned Rebecca Lindland 28:02 off. It was like there was like snow and I like what is snow sound like? Unknown Speaker 28:10 crunching Sam Abuelsamid 28:12 somebody walking through ice like cold cold dry snow in the crunching of the snow as Dan Roth 28:19 terrifying sneaking up on you. Sam Abuelsamid 28:22 There's another one, you know, sitting in a cafe. Oh, yeah. like sitting sitting in a cafe and you have the the noises of you know, coffee tinkling. Dan Roth 28:36 Esperanto or something? No, Sam Abuelsamid 28:38 I didn't say that. There was some odd choices, I'll leave it at that. But, you know, it's it's different, you know, doesn't cost anything to do it. Dan Roth 28:53 more of those those things. And so I think that's one of the places you know, because the key is for a while I've always played a little song. And I think that's just sort of the cultural overlap that we're seeing from from you know, cars that come from different markets is people like different things in different places. And I think that's one of the things that plays well at home. And so we just we just get it because it's there and we get to you know, the next time around, they're gonna come up with a way to customize it or something where you can add your own tones or they'll just expand the palette of tones and I'll have to make it a point to look for that the next time I have a chance because I forgot about it and I didn't test it out. Sam Abuelsamid 29:35 You know if you're if if you are not somebody that insists on having a higher rate, you know, higher ride height and a higher age point for your seat. Yeah, this is really you know, either this or the Sonata You know, I think are right now they're the class of the mid size sedan. Really full size sedan market. Dan Roth 29:56 Well, I mean, who else is left? Sam Abuelsamid 29:58 Well, you get the camera in the corner. And the ultimate. Chevy still makes Malibu's Unknown Speaker 30:06 Oh, wow, Sam Abuelsamid 30:08 they kill the Impala. They killed the Impala, but they stopped the Malibu. Malibu for now. For now. Yeah. Dan Roth 30:14 Are they still making fusions? No, no, Sam Abuelsamid 30:16 the fusion production ended last summer. Like in July, June or July? I think they I think they may still have some on lots for sale. Dan Roth 30:25 Yeah, cuz nobody's bought sands lately. Sam Abuelsamid 30:27 But yeah, they've been out of production for more than six months. So yeah, it's, it's basically just the Japanese and the Koreans. Rebecca Lindland 30:35 I agree. I think if you don't need an SUV, I think you know, if you want, what's fun about the sedan is if you are slogging through traffic on a lot of days, that additional ride height isn't really going to help you because you probably have an SUV in front of you anyway. And so it's irrelevant. And so why not? Nobody's exactly right. is so Sam Abuelsamid 30:57 the one the one place where that right height can be helpful to some people, you know, some people that have mobility issues. Yeah, sure. arthritis. arthritic. Yeah, having a the seat up a little bit higher, can make it easier to get in and out. Absolutely. Rebecca Lindland 31:14 You know, if you've got, you know, if you're in areas with heavy snow, because, you know, getting, I've got, I remember getting stuck at the office in Boston and my mini that was sub up, you know, so I get it, but it's but you know, sit down, it's just fun to drive. It just reminds you of what's fun to drive, you know why it's fun to drive. And, and especially, you know, one of the reasons I talk a lot about the infotainment system is because nowadays, people will drive their car just to take a meeting, you know, to get to the house, because everyone has open concept and kids don't, you know, are all over the places. It's just using your car a little bit differently just for some relaxation, or to take a meeting or do just get some privacy. So anyway, john, what do you have? Dan Roth 31:57 I had the GM, you're done, right? Sam Abuelsamid 32:00 I didn't just want to mention, the price tag delivered came to 32,003 55. Dan Roth 32:07 That's right in line. Yeah, that's a lot of sedan for just in the low 30s. And I think that's, that's where the the K five is in its in its sweet spot, you know, and it's, it's really, it's a high evolution of the art form. So like you say, the sedan market is off from what it had been. But it's still a real good example of the art form of buildings for doors, which it's not going to go away. There's still a market there. But Sam Abuelsamid 32:40 and, and you can you can also get it in the GT with that 2.5 liter that you had in that in the Unknown Speaker 32:45 Sonata Dan Roth 32:46 is amazing. So I worry that the GT might be overkill, it might be a little too much, and it will expose dynamic flaws that don't get turned up by the smaller engines. I just right. Sam Abuelsamid 32:57 I doubt. I don't think that's I think that's not likely to be the case. It might be but I think it's I think it's probably gonna be alright. Dan Roth 33:04 Yeah, she sent us some to try it. Rebecca Lindland 33:06 Well, when you think about how good the Genesis g 70 g ad, you know, how good the Genesis vehicles Sam Abuelsamid 33:12 are for platform. So I mean, those are rear drive platform. Rebecca Lindland 33:15 The engineering mindset, though, is still there. The awareness of things, you know, like, you know, overshooting on with this engine. So I think we're thinking of the crew at Hyundai, Kia Genesis. I don't know, I just feel like they're very conscious of those kinds of issues potentially. Dan Roth 33:34 I'm going to ask for one now just so I can prove my point to myself or there you go myself. I like it. So yeah, I was driving the 2021 GMC Canyon 84 in appropriate lineworker White, so I fit right in with all the work trucks that I think are probably the largest buyer of midsize pickups. It's a crew cab, but and midsize trucks are just not a good deal. It's tight. It's you know there's not as much and I know you don't always buy him for space, but you know, you quickly run into even with kids who are you know, early teenagers they've run out of space and when there's Sam Abuelsamid 34:18 a crew cab or that was Crew Cab Dan Roth 34:22 but it just you know I'm constantly having to move the passenger seat up and back to give some leg room to my my 13 year old and he's not that tall so it's a little bit tight in there and and that's sort of the theme overall is it feels really good to drive. It's it's nice in that compact size sense where it doesn't feel so ungainly sometimes you know the full size trucks sometimes feel really big, especially the ones that I've had lately the the heavy duty trucks with the crew cabs and diesels and everything that's just a lot. So this is a lot more tidy. It's a lot more car like It goes down the road really well, it doesn't, because it's smaller, it doesn't have as much trim, tremulous trim, you know, it, there's not a lot of vibration to it because it's smaller, you know, platform. So there's, there's less of that going on, it rides a little softer than the HDX trucks. So that probably helped as well. But, you know, once you get past those upsides, I have a hard time squaring the the cost versus the utility. And sometimes it's just enough utility, I understand that. But I think that it's really hard to get a better deal than a 1500 full size pickup, which you'll still just about fit most everywhere. They're not as huge as eight DS. So I'm struggling with that. It's a good truck overall, you know, it feels the controls feel good, it's comfortable. It's not like it's a coma that even with the new seating arrangement in the Tacoma, then they change the driver's seat, so you're not quite as splay leg. It just, I don't like Tacoma as much, although it kind of rules this class. The canyon feels a little better from behind the wheel, it's more friendly, it's more comfortable, the materials are good, the switch gear all feel solid, it's pretty easy to operate. It has wireless charging, I haven't checked to see if it also has wireless CarPlay. I don't think it does. So I'll fiddle with it, though, because I know some GM vehicles do. And it's got the 3.6 liter V six, which is a good engine, I always forget that it's it's been around for so long. But of the 3.6 is, you know, everybody kind of makes a 3.5 3.6 liter V six across most automakers. That's this one feels particularly energetic, you know, versus the pentastar? Or what's in the what's in the comments come as the four leader right before? Sam Abuelsamid 36:59 Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Dan Roth 37:02 Which is to do a little bit more for torque. So, you know, the power train is good. GM does really good power trains. And it's, it's a thoughtfully designed truck, it just feels like kind of the same as the Ranger, where they took a truck from another market and doubled it up a little bit for us market tastes. And it feels that way. You can, you know, it still feels like a bargain truck with some gingerbread on it. And, you know, the seats are good. The, you know, the overall outfitting I can't really fault. But I'm just struggling a little bit with the the value proposition Sam Abuelsamid 37:40 well, and that, you know, if you remember back blood a decade, 1110 1112 years ago when Ford discontinued the old Ranger, and everybody was saying, Why aren't you giving us a new Ranger? Why don't you give us this global Ranger. And, you know, Ford made exactly that case. They said, Well, you know, it costs almost as much to build a ranger as it cost to build an F 150. Now, you're getting a lot more truck for your money with the F 150. It's not going to be much more fuel efficient. And, you know, and but people still said we want a midsize truck. We want a midsize truck. So GM brought a midsize truck. Ford brought the Ranger back to North America and said, Look, we told you sell and they're there Right. Dan Roth 38:28 You know, the 84 has some some features that distinguish it from the just sort of standard grade. I want to say Canyon. Yeah, no Canyon, I get them confused the canyon in Colorado because they aren't the same thing. So but with the V six, you've got 308 horsepower. You can also get the diesel. I didn't obviously I don't have that. But I really I would like to try it is a 2.8 liter diesel, which has a lot more torque. So it's got 370 369 pound feet of torque, which I think would make the truck feel a lot different overall. Yeah, and it looks good and 84 trim. It's got nice wheels. It's got a little more serious. Goodyear off road tires or duratrac tires so that it can go get you stuck somewhere. And it's got red toe hooks because that's the thing now that apparently means you're cool. Yeah, it means that like we are we are rugged. We have red hooks. And they've I don't I have to build it. So I don't have the meroni in front of me but I think it may have the one inch suspension lift and some skid plates on it. So they do they set it up to actually go off road. So it's sort of like half a Rebecca Lindland 39:46 Yeah, it's got this suspension leveling kit. Yeah, Sam Abuelsamid 39:48 it's not quite as aggressive as the Colorado car. Dan Roth 39:51 Right. It's Yeah, it's it's a lot more livable than that. But it's still can play I suppose if that's what You want to do with it? It's a tiny pickup. I like it overall, you know that the it's not a bad truck, but it's just also like 38 grand, something like that. That's actually Sam Abuelsamid 40:12 not bad. I mean, yeah, when I watch one time I had a ranger. I had a ranger Lariat, it was like 43 or $44,000. Dan Roth 40:21 I mean, Rebecca Lindland 40:23 that's crazy. That's crazy. The one thing though, I will say, I mean, having driven some of these pickup trucks, like in a, in a suburban urban environment, this is a better size, though. I mean, if you don't need a full size pickup truck, you know, some of those full size pickups are serious, or they are enormous. Yes. Yeah, they are. Dan Roth 40:44 I mean, I got out of the Ford Super duties. And I think legitimately the hood is taller than me. Yes, I like the size. But then, you know, when you think about having a truck and how the utility is supposed to work, you run out of run out of that capability fast, you know, you put normal adults in it. And it's, it's uncomfortable. Unknown Speaker 41:10 Well, I Dan Roth 41:10 mean, this is this is why, just the other day, somebody was asking me like, what's the best car out there? And like, it depends. Because if you do have like, if you have a family, your size down a car, a vehicle, like this is not going to be the best choice. Yeah, which kind of sucks because on paper, it almost looks like it could be I don't need an enormous truck, sometimes I need the open bed to carry, you know, some stuff. But I don't ever use the full size beds to their full capacity, at least not on a regular basis. So if I was going to do a truck, this is a lot more sensible, you know, it's kind of a little bit more efficient, both size wise and consumption wise, and it'll tuck into any suburban garage, like you said, where there's somewhere Sam Abuelsamid 41:57 a lot, a lot of them won't fit a full size truck. Dan Roth 42:00 Yeah, you know, especially not a, you know, 2500 or 3500, or something that big, the 1500s like a, you tend to be able to put the like, short, short bed standard cab just about anywhere. Still, they're not that much bigger. They're a little taller than they had been historically. But overall, they're they're about the same size, but nobody buys those people by crew caps, because you want two thirds of an SUV, you know, you want to two thirds of a full size SUV, which makes sense, because it's really handy. And and this is, you know, it's it's like, I guess it's the sort of two thirds of a trailblazer if I'm trying to think of the closest analog for a traditional body on frame, GM SUV. And that was that was what the GM t 360s. The Trailblazer and the old blazers. Yeah. Yeah, not the new one. It just feels that that second row seat in here feels tight, and that it's a hard balance, because the beds not all that long. But the overall length isn't all that long, either. Because you don't want an ungainly pickup, you know, it makes it hard to maneuver. So they've done a really good job with within the constraints of the segment. I just I think that the segment, we have more affinity for this segment, in our minds, I think than we actually do with our Pontiacs. Yeah. Make sense? They were right when they said, Hey, nobody's gonna buy that we can't, we can't make it cheap enough for you. The only people who buy cheap trucks like that are, you know, fleets. And that's exactly what we've seen, you know, the very popular fleets and there's some buyers, you know, there's some market for it. But overall, I can't imagine that they're, they're making all that much money on these, especially compared to the full size work, where they make all their profits. Rebecca Lindland 43:44 Well, just, I mean, looking at the range. So the 2021 Kenyan starts at 26 400. And then the Kenyan Denali, which is like the Lariat and the Ranger, almost $45,000 you can buy two, almost two baseline canyons for one of the Denali, but that's what, you know, sad Dan Roth 44:03 deal. Sam Abuelsamid 44:06 is coming to bring back smaller trucks, you know, 10 years ago, you know, I think what they actually wanted, was maybe not necessary. Well, I mean, obviously, a lot of them want this because they're buying these in pretty reasonable volumes. But what a lot of people actually wanted was returned back to the late 80s and a truck like the one I drove in college, and I had an 84 GMC s 15 and college. And in those days, you could buy a stripper, compact pickup, you know, a ranger or an S 10 or s 15. You know, with just a regular cab shortbed for like, $5,000 yesterday had no radio, no, strippers in Rebecca Lindland 44:48 the abs, I'm just wondering. You know, Sam Abuelsamid 44:58 base baseline Bass pickup Dan Roth 45:01 for the pole. Sam Abuelsamid 45:04 collapsible pole I remember looking at you know, the ads in the the Saturday papers, you know that the car dealers, you know, they were all advertising 4999 for this bass pickup truck. Yeah, it's like I said it had no stereo in it. No manual crank windows manual transmission. But you know, it was cheap. It was reliable. it for five years going back and forth to school, it got me back and forth. You know, all the time. It was wheels. Yeah. You know? Rebecca Lindland 45:40 Absolutely. Dan Roth 45:41 I mean, basically, that truck was a criminal, Avi, you know, Sam Abuelsamid 45:44 pretty much. Actually mine. Mine was I think 84 was the last year that they still had the, the Isuzu 1.9 liter. Next year, the 85. They went to the iron Duke. But so I had the 90 horsepower carbureted, Isuzu 1.9 liter, that's a four speed manual qualifier. It never caught fire on me. Dan Roth 46:11 But that's it's true, though, even into the 90s. You know, I think my my father bought a f150 XL in like 93. And the only options that had I think was the twin tanks. And so it was the 309 six, it was rear wheel drive, monster five speed shortbed regular cat that was like 11 five. So you contrast that now where you can't get a new truck for anywhere in the 20s really, like you could you could start with an Excel I guess, or the work truck grades, but you they're not. They're not pleasant. And it wasn't a luxurious truck either. But I think our our expectations have changed where people want carpets, not the rubber floor mats, we want, you know, the leather seats and all the goodies. And so that pushes the prices up. And so because we're using trucks as cars, and this is a it's a compact truck that feels like a compact car. So in that sense, it's I've, I feel like you know, for the footprint it takes up, I've got to adjust my expectations. It's it's not super space efficient. I suppose it does about the best it can. But it's it's a nice truck. It's just I unless you need the size, you're gonna have a better truck, and a Silverado or a Sierra than this, you're gonna get more utility out of it. So yeah. I thought it was gonna be I thought it was gonna be an odyssey this week, too. So when the the candy shop was a guy, that's cool. It's a truck, get some stuff done it I saw him pulled the footings. So we'll see if I can pull the footage. Sam Abuelsamid 47:48 I should have done that last week when you have to the 250 diesel. Yeah. Dan Roth 47:53 It's been cold. Sam Abuelsamid 47:57 All right. So we've got some guests joining us today from from their listeners. You guys want to chime in and you got some questions or you want to tell us what you guys Dr. Dave? Sure. Unknown Speaker 48:14 I'll I'll start Sure. So uh, well, actually, before I jump in, I think I wanted to say something. But you know, we're here to listen to you guys talk when you were talking about the card and you are going on a monitor form? Why are they doing so I can give you two reasons why they're doing okay. So the one that the one this one is just be a cheap, cheap shot. But note that Tesla does it right. So it is a very trendy thing. So one point, okay, but I think I think more to the point, it is way cheaper to print two RFID cards, and provide them instead of keys and fobs. That's true. I think we'll see the faab go away and the app become ubiquitous. And the key like the fall will go to the same place as the as the steel key as the lock on the passenger door. It'll go Dan Roth 49:02 Yeah, that's a good point. Sam Abuelsamid 49:04 That's why I agree. I think the fog will go away. But I think eventually they're not even gonna print the cards. They're gonna rely on our phones. I'm gonna be fun. Yeah, yeah, BMW just announced on the on the ix their their new electric crossover, it's going to be the first implementation of the ultra wideband digital key technology. So the, the iPhones the new iPhone twelves have an ultra wideband chip in them. And it's a it's a newer wireless technology that's more secure than Bluetooth. You know, it gives you very precise positioning information and so it's gonna you know, you'll be able to use your use your phone with that and also Samsung. The new latest generation Samsung Galaxy phones have an ultra wideband chip in them as well. Unknown Speaker 49:59 Yeah. I found I found the card a very easy way to borrow a friend's car. It was very low friction. And yes, it does fit nicely in a wallet, it just comes out, it taps on the beat post and back in your wallet until you've paired with the car, and so on to the garage. So I have, I have three vehicles, all of the manuals, I get to claim that I have 2009 Wrangler, unlimited for the four door. It's got about 260,000 kilometers on it. And I've got a Mazda five. So that's a that's a that's a 2008. And that already has about 140,000 kilometers. Dan Roth 50:42 Very Canadian choice. Excellent. Unknown Speaker 50:45 And Dan, you know, some esoteric trivia for you in Canada, you can get the GT model with with the men. Dan Roth 50:51 Excellent. We had the manual here for a very short time. I remember driving when is the press car, and I think I drove it like the same day they came out and announced that they were no longer selling. Rebecca Lindland 51:03 Cutting edge. Yeah. Unknown Speaker 51:04 And then and then Sam, this one's for you. So I grew tired of listening to people talking about their cars. And I finally pulled the trigger and I bought myself a project 1990 Miata. Excellent. That's amazing. It has a it's in the garage with the fenders and the hood pulled off it and getting a new timing belt right now. And I'm currently shopping for some nice five millimeter drills to drill out of more than a couple broken off Fender golf. That's what's sitting in my garage. What color is it? It is white. Sam Abuelsamid 51:40 Okay, mine was originally white. It's it's wrapped right now and a silver silvery gray color. But at some point I'd like to either when the when the wrap needs to be replaced. either gonna I'm gonna either get it painted or get it wrapped in something as close as I can find America blue collar I always wanted Unknown Speaker 52:04 this is my first foray into a Project CARS so we'll see how it goes. And it's no it's nothing pristine, but it's doing pretty well for rust for its age and being a Canadian vintage vehicle. And we'll see how it goes right if if I put the put the time and love into it, then maybe I'll earn myself something a little nicer and better quality. It's had some love it's had some younger buyers at some point along its way. Bone the fender on the same color underside and there's lots of fasteners missing up here. Rebecca Lindland 52:37 We should have you on one year as you make progress though. It'd be fun to hear about it. Dan Roth 52:43 Like we should do a lot of feed from the garage interesting phrases for curse words that you can always hear before Rebecca Lindland 52:53 we don't pay for work anymore because everyone's home. Unknown Speaker 52:56 We are in we're in a an updated emergency lockdown right where we're under additional encouragement not to go not to leave the house and I tell you there's nothing more frustrating than going in starting a project and it's like dammit, I need a polar Well, you're not you can't just drive to the local store and go in and shop. No, you have to like browse through their website. Click order didn't get a phone call saying they don't have it. All this nonsense, you know. Unknown Speaker 53:28 Oh, man. Dan Roth 53:31 Alright. What else? Yeah, um, Unknown Speaker 53:34 what? Sam Abuelsamid 53:36 What do you want to know? What do you drive? Unknown Speaker 53:38 What do I drive? I drive let's see I have a 2012 Mazda speed 350,000 miles still still go still doesn't burn too much oil. I put roof racks on it. I put everything on it. I mean, I put it I put some money down. I put what do you call it the $100 deposit for a bronco next year. We'll see if I get but if the monster keeps going, we'll keep it and then my girlfriend has 2015 I think it's a W 205 is the C 400 Mercedes formatic which was a rare car because it was a one year only. Because after that they discontinued the C 400. And then they called it the C 450 AMG and now I think they call it the C 43 AMG Sam Abuelsamid 54:27 something like basically Yeah, Unknown Speaker 54:28 basically a C 43. With without the bits and nothing is a blast. And then of course I don't have any project cards because I'm not allowed Unknown Speaker 54:43 to say you got one you don't know it. I gotta Unknown Speaker 54:46 say we had a 204 before it and I gotta tell you these. I mean, I come from owning, you know, half a dozen BMW before this and the two of them a 205. I mean, they're pretty solid cars. I can't really complain about them too much. mean there's little things you know, like you know, the the buttons are peeling and stuff like that, you know, standard European car stuff, but I mean mechanically they're, they're solid. Um, Dan Roth 55:10 yeah, that's my experience too with the Volvo is just like, you have other little things that tend to break that aren't really that difficult. And they're, they're high quality pieces. So you wind up fixing it because the rest of the car is decent. Yeah. And it was funny. I started off earlier in quarantine. I was like, I want a Benz wagon. And so looking around for it. We've been going through Sam Abuelsamid 55:32 this Odyssey with Dan for the last six months. Dan Roth 55:36 And I decided that I wanted to know I really want to pick up because well because the summer came and we wanted to tow a travel trailer which didn't happen but you know, Unknown Speaker 55:43 can't wait Which one is it? It's the 126 the 560 sccs that's all ladies those are really very popular in Southern California right now. I'm Dan Roth 55:52 telling you Those are on the uptick so the cocaine bands Yeah, Rebecca Lindland 55:55 exactly. Bring a trailer Benz Unknown Speaker 55:57 bring a trailer very very popular car. And then the girlfriend also has a 94 Mustang GT five liter convertible five speed Dan Roth 56:09 five last year Unknown Speaker 56:11 and she will never sell so that's that's my project Dan Roth 56:15 that's that's a good one because that's I that's the car I test drove when I was in high school Unknown Speaker 56:21 which I used to hate Unknown Speaker 56:22 I hated that car and now that I drive it I'm like this Dan Roth 56:25 car is actually you know Unknown Speaker 56:26 it's not fast and it's it rattles I leader in California though. Unknown Speaker 56:30 Yeah. Unknown Speaker 56:33 Um, you know, I mean, it gets okay gas mileage, but we'll drive it that much. You know, we put the top down and go to the beach and yeah, dogs in the back. It's kind of just fine. You know, it's I don't really want to you know, I thought about modifying it I thought about you know, doing coyote swap and all this summer like now let's just leave it as is it's it's fun. It's kind of like a time capsule like I kind of understand those guys with the 16 Porsches you know, with the low mileage they're like, they go back and I'm like, this is what it was like, you know, and it's it's not it's not going to win any races or anything or I'm not going to take it on any you know, it's not like a Miata. I'm not going to take it on a canyon runs But Sam Abuelsamid 57:08 well, you know, those those Mustangs were a little on the flexible side. When you cut the top off? Yeah. I had I had a 91 five liter LX that I bought when I graduated. And it was the the notchback I mean, nothing was nothing was solid. And it was it was a fun car. And the reason I bought the notchback was it's actually the lightest very exam. It was like 150 pounds, almost 200 pounds lighter than the GT hatchback. And so, you know, it was it was a hoot. And it actually got pretty decent mileage. I mean, driving an Iowa you could get, you know, 2526 miles per gallon with that. Dan Roth 57:52 I mean, after all, it was economical Fairmont. It's, uh, you know, I like the idea of just kind of leaving it as is you know, cuz it it's still satisfying. It's It's everything around it is it can perform better but that doesn't mean you can't enjoy what it what it does. It still has that wave of torque that three or two had. And you know, it sounds good. Unknown Speaker 58:17 On the rocker covers, Dan Roth 58:21 sweet smell of burning off the headers. Rebecca Lindland 58:24 Isn't that one of the nature sounds and the dripping oil on the rocker panel. Unknown Speaker 58:35 And what do you what do you have? Unknown Speaker 58:38 Well, Sam, I have to tell you my college rod was the 85 Ranger. Nice. So that was the last Ranger with the carburetor. Which was fun when you had the carburetor icing, which I enjoyed in the wintertime. Dan Roth 58:54 Is that the motor craft 2800 Unknown Speaker 58:56 that was the yes the two barrel Dan Roth 58:59 kind of hated that carburetor. Unknown Speaker 59:02 always asked to stalled out, throw in the clutch, crank the truck again. Take off again. So that was always fun. And they had the basics. The the German 2.8 the six that Dan Roth 59:16 you nice? The Cornwall Yeah, the two thermostats. Yeah. Unknown Speaker 59:20 Yeah. big truck. And then then then Diana had the 94 f150 with the 306 cylinder that you referenced. Also a crazy, idiosyncratic kind of engine in that thing, too. And then, now I have a fusion 2009 fusion with the V six. Dan Roth 59:45 Ford man. Excellent. Yes, absolutely. Unknown Speaker 59:46 And it's kind of funny. My wife had the I don't remember Dan, if you remember the Chris Shunk mobiel in Autoblog podcast was the freestyle. Sam Abuelsamid 59:58 Oh yes, yeah. Dan Roth 59:58 freestyle Unknown Speaker 1:00:01 freestyle, which my wife had a freestyle for several years, we put 150,000 miles on a freestyle with that Rebecca Lindland 1:00:08 for like the old Yeah, Sam Abuelsamid 1:00:09 it was. It was the crossover that they the first crossover they did cross crossover wagon. They eventually after the midcycle refresh the rebadged as the tourist acts Rebecca Lindland 1:00:20 that's right yes I remember that. Wow we turn Dan Roth 1:00:25 into the eventually turned into the same basic thing turn into the Explorer Sam Abuelsamid 1:00:32 flex Rebecca Lindland 1:00:33 Yeah, flex I was gonna Yeah. Unknown Speaker 1:00:36 The Explorer looked very much like a freestyle just kind of beat up. Dan Roth 1:00:40 Yeah, and the freestyle the freestyle had the CVT did Unknown Speaker 1:00:43 yeah. Yeah. Which made me very nervous at 150,000 miles with the CVT. So we started looking last year for something to replace that and it's kind of a hoot. But the thing we found was a Lincoln MKT. Which is a similar car is same platform, I believe. Yeah, Sam Abuelsamid 1:01:03 it is. Yeah. Dan Roth 1:01:05 And interior I love the interior in that Unknown Speaker 1:01:07 and it'll really kind of crazy kind of a crazy car also. But we it's a 2014 but it only had 28,000 miles on it. It'd been in a fleet. Wow. So we got a pretty good deal on that. And is it black? Oh, of course. Of course this car. Rebecca Lindland 1:01:26 Make sure that it's all is right in the world. Sam Abuelsamid 1:01:28 Oh, Crystal black with the it's got the little glass beads in the paint. The Tuxedo Black is what they call it. Black. Yes, that's it. That was a great color. Unknown Speaker 1:01:39 The big two moon roofs in it and the EcoBoost which is a hoot. The three five EcoBoost I mean, you know, we've got this hill, kind of a rural two lane and you get to the the hill with the passing line. You know nothing with nothing will pass you on that thing. Just you know the EcoBoost just just forget it. Unknown Speaker 1:02:02 And where are you located then? Unknown Speaker 1:02:04 I'm in Georgia. Dan Roth 1:02:06 Oh, nice. Yeah, that's the MKT is it's funny, I really liked the interior in it. And driving it was was always pretty decent. That is the one press car I've ever had. where somebody left me a note about how ugly it was. I was like, Yeah, I mean, it's not. It's it's not the most graceful, but it's comfortable. Unknown Speaker 1:02:32 Yes. The whole Beilein grill thing is a little bit weird. Unknown Speaker 1:02:36 Yeah. Sam Abuelsamid 1:02:40 But I always always preferred to flex myself. I still I still really like the flex. Unknown Speaker 1:02:46 My mother has a play. Sam Abuelsamid 1:02:47 There's several of them in my neighborhood here. Unknown Speaker 1:02:51 Anyway, yes. or family? Dan Roth 1:02:53 Here you go. Unknown Speaker 1:02:54 I'm about an hour north of the kiya plant. Rebecca Lindland 1:02:58 Oh, are you Unknown Speaker 1:03:00 here in Georgia and I work for technical college. And we have a partnership with Kenya there to supply some of their skilled trades. So I was actually able to tour the plant and see the amazing assembly line area there in Kenya plan, which was it took me about a week just to get over that it was astounding. Dan Roth 1:03:21 What's it Yeah, like what? How was it different from your expectations of what an assembly plant Unknown Speaker 1:03:26 is like? Well, they make it at that point, they were making the Optima and Sorento on the same in the same plant. So I had in my mind, I guess, you know, they're gonna run half a day of optimist and they're gonna throw the switch and run a half a day Sorento or however they do it. That's not the way they did it at all. They had just the assembly line was just completely mixed, Rebecca Lindland 1:03:48 or fully integrated, Unknown Speaker 1:03:50 same time. And the bodies came from this way the engine transmissions are coming from another plant this way. And then at some point, they turn these so they line up with this and they just all fit together in order and the interior comes in over in the carpet. The logistics. It was it was just mind blowing. To see how all that comes together. Yeah, and can consider that all those pieces like the engines came from from from Korea to wind up there at the right time. Like camping Montgomery. Actually, that's interesting. But they have a Hyundai plant in Montgomery. Kia plants in West Point, Georgia, and they swap out engine transmissions. Like they used to the same. Sam Abuelsamid 1:04:32 Yeah, yeah. And it's it's always amazing going into a modern assembly plant and nobody like orchestration that has to happen to get all of the parts. Yes, coming to the line in the right sequence at the right time. You know, it's like for that whatever was ordered, you know, to get the right color seats, you know, in the right sequence for that particular car. The that they can make that happen. With, with any degree of consistency is amazing. And, you know, it's it's no wonder, you know, when you look at a new manufacturer like Tesla that they've struggled so much with that. And you know, for other manufacturer more experienced manufacturers, it's a, it's a really hard thing to do manufacturing is tough Unknown Speaker 1:05:21 to have all these suppliers around in the area, and they have almost no inventory if the key a plant all that stuff, and just exactly when they need it, and it's all in, in the truck, or in the order that they need, you know, backwards so that when they take it off, it comes out the right way to match up the cars that are coming down the line. I mean, it's just the whole thing. Like I said, it took me about a week just to get over the experience of going through the plant. Dan Roth 1:05:45 Yeah, it's that that's the Justin time kind of Toyota Production System sort of thing. And it's great, most of the time. But what happens, and we're seeing it now with the chip shortages, if if something gets out of sync within the suppliers, it grinds the whole thing to a halt. They can't make cars, if they don't have the parts, they don't have any stock. You know, there's no inventory. So Unknown Speaker 1:06:08 nobody wants to pay for inventory. Dan Roth 1:06:10 Yeah, yeah, inventory is expensive. That's Yeah, Sam Abuelsamid 1:06:13 it's expensive. And, you know, if there's, if there's a manufacturing problem with any component along the way, you know, then you end up with a huge stock of parts that you have to scrap, you know, whereas when you're running just in time, you find those problems quickly, and you get them resolved. You know, before you've built a bunch of cars that you hopefully before you built a bunch of cars that you'd have to then go back and Dan Roth 1:06:36 fix. Well, I mean, you've got the supplier park to read around you. So the one of the things they do is put the quality step, you know, quality assurance on the supplier. So just go chop the supplier instead of like, you guys need to fix this and eat it not us. So Unknown Speaker 1:06:54 it's just interesting that the numbers are staggering to the to the normal person when you add it up. So if you look at a modest plant that's making 1000 cars a day, if there's $10,000 worth of content in each one of those cars, so you're sitting on at least $10 million of inventory a day, it's probably much closer to 50, then you've probably got 10 days of inventory flow in the immediate areas coming in. And the better part of 20 or 30 days is you go out all the way to the end of the supply chain. So he started adding up the amount of money in terms of working capital, it's big numbers. Rebecca Lindland 1:07:34 For Wall Street doesn't like the industry. Unknown Speaker 1:07:40 Yeah, well. Rebecca Lindland 1:07:42 They love the tech parts of it. Right? They Dan Roth 1:07:43 like irrational exuberance kills me it's like the companies that actually make stuff that have assets, they have plants, they have workforces they they have you know, all of the sort of old line automakers have that model. Their stocks are, what are they they traded like, I don't know, 50 bucks or less. And then you might have and then these upstarts that have a flashy idea. And they have instead they have hope Rebecca Lindland 1:08:13 and dreams, they haven't. Dan Roth 1:08:17 They don't have any, like actual, it's upside down to me. They don't have anything like so when you think about it, as you know, I'm not an analyst, but I look at it and go well, if that business goes under, they don't have anything of value to liquidate. Versus, you know, GM, if they go bankrupt. They have assets to liquidate. So there's there's actual physical value there versus a lot of these, you know, sort of EMP companies that are starting up that Unknown Speaker 1:08:47 just, they're valued on their future growth and their future values. That's whatever that might be. Right? Yeah, Dan Roth 1:08:53 I wish I could have gone to college and my future value Unknown Speaker 1:08:55 it's called out a student loan, a student loan. Unknown Speaker 1:09:05 Speaking of, Rebecca Lindland 1:09:06 of hopes and dreams and companies, such as do we want to talk about our Tesla recall? Sam Abuelsamid 1:09:12 Sure. Email that came in from Adam jack alenko says, Hey, all if you're looking for a topic to discuss on the show, I'd love to hear your take on this story. The way I read is basically there's a safety issue with these cars referring to Tesla that will inevitably fail nitsa is recommending a recall or free replacement. And instead, customers have been getting charged 20 $500 now 15 $100 for the pleasure of getting a safety problem, a safety problem fixed in their cars under the guise of it being an upgrade because it adds karaoke and Netflix. But it also completely removes am FM and Sirius radio functionality. What? So what what Adams referring to here is the two Tesla Model S and the Model X model years 2015 to 18. And, you know, these, these vehicles all have this giant 17 inch touchscreen and the center console. And the what they what Tesla calls the media control unit, which is the computer that drives this thing is failing on many of these cars and will eventually fail on pretty much all of them. Because the, you know, one, you know, one of the unique things about Tesla, until now has been, you know that they do these over the air updates on a regular basis. Yeah, so they send out software updates to your car that gives you new functionality, like karaoke and fart sounds and, you know, Netflix. And, you know, that's all well and good. But, you know, the thing is, to do that, you've got to have flash memory in that media control unit and that computer, flash memory, it typically only has a certain limited number of write cycles, depending on the type of flash memory, that could be 100 write cycles, it could be a million write cycles. And, you know, the flash that can take more write cycles is more expensive. Tesla, in their infinite wisdom opted to use the cheapest possible kind of flash memory in the MCU. And so because Tesla sends out software updates, about every four to six weeks or so, they've basically worn out the flash memory in these things. And when that happens, now the screen goes dead, because the basically bricked that computer that drives it. Dan Roth 1:11:41 So again, poor design thinking, yes. Why? Why didn't they just put like, I mean, can't you just put an SD card in it? And so Oh, yeah, the flash memory is dead, just swap in the new SD card, you're good to go? Unknown Speaker 1:11:55 Actually, you get that kind of failure with an SD card? Yeah. The repeated log file writing does that, Dan Roth 1:12:02 right? I know. But like, if it's, if it's something it's a use Sam Abuelsamid 1:12:06 the same kind of flash that's on cheap SD cards. But Dan Roth 1:12:09 if it's hardwired into the car, they're not now they've got to replace the whole thing, right versus just a dealer, or they don't have dealers, Sam Abuelsamid 1:12:15 or they could just use a different type of flash, different type of NAND flash that that is designed for more right cycles. Yeah, and the reason why nitsa wants them to recall 158,000 vehicles, is because this is a safety issue, because the cars today are required to have a backup camera. And the backup, the display from the backup camera shows up on that center screen. If that computer dies, it can't display the backup camera. There's also some other information that it displays that is required. And so nitsa is telling them, you've got to recall these cars, and Tesla's pushing back and saying no, we don't want to recall them. And, and, you know, they're charging customers, you know, they had been charging them. In some cases, as much as $3,000 to replace the computer with a newer model. They've cut that price down to 1500. But, you know, they still don't want to do a recall which they should be doing. Dan Roth 1:13:12 Well, in this, it can force them to do a recall which they can they Sam Abuelsamid 1:13:15 haven't yet, but they can they can make it mandatory, you know, what the process is? They typically go to them say, hey, you need to do this voluntarily. Right? And yeah, if you don't, then, you know, we'll make it mandatory, Dan Roth 1:13:30 right. And it's very expensive when they when they get to that point, right? It's it's forcing a recall. And that's we haven't seen that as much in the last 20 years, where there's that, that kind of regulatory action, usually because automakers don't, they don't want that egg on their face that they'll either quietly fix problems with, you know, the service bulletin, or they'll they're more publicly announced that there's a problem and take care of it. They don't want to get to the point where nits is making them do it. That's, that's, that's not good. Rebecca Lindland 1:14:02 Where would they do these repairs? And where do you serve? It sounds remedial and clean and remedial is how it comes just pointed out. But where, but seriously, like we're Sam Abuelsamid 1:14:18 not scalable. They have they do have some service centers, they have about 100 service centers around the country. And, you know, they have mobile that can do mobile service, you know, they can send somebody out to do it in your driveway. And, you know, I mean, this is this is a repair that can that can do from the mobile trucks. It's not like replacing a battery. Rebecca Lindland 1:14:38 Okay, so how long would the repair take? would you think if they did it at your home? Sam Abuelsamid 1:14:43 Probably a couple hours, Dan Roth 1:14:44 couple hours. It's like swapping a head unit right? You pop the old one out, pop a new one in or whatever. copied over stuff. Yeah, Rebecca Lindland 1:14:51 that is not a scalable solution, though. And look how long it takes triple A to get to you. Yeah, Unknown Speaker 1:14:57 never scales. Dan Roth 1:15:00 You're right when your stock is worth worth right now, Sam Abuelsamid 1:15:04 their market cap right now is a little over $800 billion. Right. So they're, they're worth more than the next 10. automakers combined? Dan Roth 1:15:13 Well, sort of. Sam Abuelsamid 1:15:15 Yeah. I mean, their market cap is more than the next 10 automakers so Dan Roth 1:15:19 they just have to sell a little stock today. And they can pay that labor force. Sam Abuelsamid 1:15:24 Well, I mean, they've they've done two stock sales in the last year for $5 billion each. So they've raised $10 billion in capital, in the last 10 months promptly went Dan Roth 1:15:33 into the furnace. Sam Abuelsamid 1:15:35 So, you know, they, they should have the cash. Oh, yeah. There's there's no, there's no excuse. I mean, it's, it's, it's unconscionable for Tesla to be charging people for this repair. For something that is clearly a design defect. Dan Roth 1:15:52 Oh, and this is different than the issue with the screens. Right. This is this is not the same as the touchscreens that die. Sam Abuelsamid 1:15:58 Right, right. This is this this? Yeah, this is not actually the screen itself. It's the computer that drives the screen. So the screens themselves is a whole separate issue, Dan Roth 1:16:07 because they had been replacing those free of charge, and for a while, with new ones, and then they were doing refurbs. And yeah, yeah. So it seems like that whole center screen thing is an issue when you try to get around the the need to use automotive grade hardware. Sam Abuelsamid 1:16:25 Yeah. Well, I mean, when when they launched the Model S, there was nobody in the industry that was making a 17 inch automotive grade touchscreen display. And so they they sourced one, you know, that was being used for some kind of industrial application. And, you know, then they started failing, you know, you know, the, the adhesives that hold it all together, or, you know, it was heating up and the pieces was leaking into it and you're getting a yellow tinge to it is, it was not good. Dan Roth 1:16:54 Yeah. It's that. Well, it doesn't. I would be livid. Unknown Speaker 1:16:59 If Dan Roth 1:17:01 this happened to me with my car. I mean, I had to replace an alternator. On one of the Volvo's It was like 100 bucks. And I was upset about that. It's like alternators never failed. Why did the alternator fail, you should pay for that. And it was a thing I wonder eating. But they they did fix the 1000 volt $1,000 electronic throttle body. You know, because it's the same kind of thing. It's like, this is your problem, not mine. As an owner, I bought your thing. It's a safety issue. It's a design issue. You need to fix it. Rebecca Lindland 1:17:33 But early, but the mindset of the early adopter, especially the Tesla owner is that they see themselves as part of the solution that they are the beta testers. And and part of the privilege of being an early adopter is that you then are somehow part of this, you have the privilege of being part of this solution. It's it's I mean, that's why there's it's a thing almost Sam Abuelsamid 1:17:58 most beta tests you're not paying Rebecca Lindland 1:18:00 for you agree with Dan Roth 1:18:05 like the inconvenience for the thrill of being a beta tester like that's fine, but the cost of it really needs to be borne by Rebecca Lindland 1:18:12 crazy well that's what it's so just before we started I asked sam i was like i just i there's a couple things I don't really understand about this. The idea of you know that you're charging your customers anywhere from 1500 to $3,000. After you've purchased the car me you've already bought the thing and then you add so much cost to it. And then also and I feel really old when I'm asking this but I don't understand how it's a benefit that am FM XM are going away. How is that like? It's but that's part of the one of the okay, Dan Roth 1:18:48 right this you're charging them more to give them less, which is Sam Abuelsamid 1:18:50 that's bad. Well, actually, Tesla's have never had a ham radio Unknown Speaker 1:18:56 don't either. Sam Abuelsamid 1:18:57 Yeah, they don't know. Unknown Speaker 1:19:01 Radio. Sam Abuelsamid 1:19:03 On Tesla's, they didn't do it because there's too much EMI too much electromagnetic interference on the car, and they couldn't get it to work reliably. But somehow, every other manufacturer of EDS like GM and Ford, and everybody else still has ham radio in their cars. Dan Roth 1:19:22 Well, I mean, the lead shield doable put it from all this stuff gets expensive. The aim is it's like my classic way to stay awake on the long nighttime drive. So tune in Canada, I am. But I it's probably it's not that much of a loss to lose serious. I mean, I think that you could, you could pull that up on your your app, and you could probably do the same with some of the FM stations and most people aren't really listening to terrestrial radio, which I think I have. I have feelings about that. But I also feel like that's almost a safety issue because You're gonna get your live like local weather, whatever, even if there's a problem, you know, that's sort of the public service mission of broadcasters, is to just fill that, that gap when, when there's an information need this not all the time, but maybe there's a way to serve that because we get emergency alerts on our phones and stuff now to be Rebecca Lindland 1:20:20 very local, but then that localized information. Dan Roth 1:20:24 And I say, not everybody has a phone, but every Tesla owner has a phone, probably a high end phone, because they're, Unknown Speaker 1:20:29 they needed to get in the car, Sam Abuelsamid 1:20:30 right? It only works if you have a signal. Dan Roth 1:20:38 The problem too, is I'm the self described man of the people. And then I realized that Tesla's are not for the little people. So all of my concerns, kind of go out the window, because it's a premium car for premium people. Unknown Speaker 1:20:51 Let me ask you this, about Tesla, right. So it is a very hot button topic, right? Either you love it, or you hate it, or you're not paying attention to right. And it gets a lot of attention one way or the other. And as a manufacturer, to the best of my knowledge, they don't participate in a lot of the industry studies, and, you know, fact checking and data collection that you get, whether it's like JD powers and things of that nature. So is there good industry data to talk about things like IQs, from a Tesla? That to actually put apples to apples? Because, yes, there's lots of anecdotal or, you know, people on the internet raging about problems, and there's also a lot of people screaming how much they love their car. Unknown Speaker 1:21:36 And, Unknown Speaker 1:21:37 you know, I I'd love to see some actual data about things like the IQs or months and service problems with, with those vehicles to actually understand is this car, just like a, you know, something out of North American auto plant from the ladies, in terms of like, what they're like? Or does it just feel like that, because of the echo chamber that just amplifies all of the different opinions. Sam Abuelsamid 1:22:04 So with IQ, you know, with surveys, like IQ and JD powers, IQs, and their their long term durability or reliability survey, you know, to get that data, you know, they send out surveys to consumers, and they get the addresses of vehicle owners, from the manufacturers, you know, the manufacturers provide, provide that information that contact information, so they can reach out. And it varies by state, whether they, whether they actually they get it from the DMV, not from not from the vehicle, from the manufacturers, but in some states, the manufacturers have to approve the release of that data. And in it, most manufacturers say, Yeah, go ahead, we want to be included in this survey. And so, you know, they send it out to, you know, sampling of the owners, you know, in across all states, Tesla refuses to participate in any of those kinds of surveys, any of those external surveys. And so, JD Power is able to reach out to owners, they've done the surveys to owners, and about, I think last year was 22 states is what they said, and they don't, because they, you know, it's less than half of the states, they don't include them in the official rankings. But last year, for the first time, they did actually reference some of the Tesla data that they got. And then there's also Consumer Reports, you know, they, they have their members fill out the surveys. And so, you know, they've got the, they've got the data that way, both of those, Tesla is much worse than average, at you know, they're near at or near the bottom, generally, in terms of quality and reliability, they have a lot more issues than other manufacturers. So to answer your question, yes, it is much more akin to something coming out of a North American vehicle plant in the 1980s than in 2020 or 2021. Dan Roth 1:24:12 I would say like late 70s. Maybe they've gotten better. Well, Sam Abuelsamid 1:24:17 I mean, you know, when when Sandy Monroe did his first teardown of a model three, three years ago when it first came out, you know, before they started to tear down just doing a walk around of the car looking at it, you know, you can you can still find the video online with him and john McElroy, yeah. And Monroe described it as having the the quality of an early 1990s kiya you know the build quality of the early 1990s. kiya which was not a good car in those days are great. But 1990s kiya was a scary car to be around Dan Roth 1:24:53 each and they just updated that with another model three. Yeah, it just Sam Abuelsamid 1:24:57 got a brand new one Dan Roth 1:24:58 and the body gaps are still Sam Abuelsamid 1:25:01 not, not great better, but it's still much worse than what you typically find on a modern via that, Dan Roth 1:25:06 that's a whole other story that the dust up about stock ownership and stuff. Sam Abuelsamid 1:25:11 Yeah. Monroe just on Twitter revealed that he actually had bought a bunch of Tesla stock and made a ton of money on it. And that just happened to coincide with somewhat of a change in the attitude, you know, in his descriptions of Tesla stuff. Unknown Speaker 1:25:30 And the optics are great there. Sam Abuelsamid 1:25:32 Yeah. You know, Tesla has done some very interesting engineering, and they've done some really cool stuff in the way they design their cars, you know, especially around their electrical architecture is, is really interesting. And the rest of the industry is moving in that direction now. But, yeah, just the fundamentals of how you actually put it all together, they still haven't wrap their heads around that. I mean, they still have, you know, far and away the worst paint finishes on any modern car, you know, very thin paint, very easy to scrape off. You know, it peels off regularly, you know, you find parts that, you know, especially like rear bumpers, that on the the model three in the model lie, the the way the rear bumper cover is designed, you know, when you're driving in the wintertime, or even in heavy rain, you know, the water will collect up under the rear bumper cap, or snow will collect under there, and the weight of that will cause it to fall off. You know, it's just ridiculous stuff. Rebecca Lindland 1:26:36 What they, they don't take advice and guidance and lessons learned, because they're the men, right? Like, even how they set up the factory where it wasn't a secret that it's easier to hand put in insulation, that's why they do that. And they're like, Oh, this robot can do it. But no, it actually couldn't do it. So but they're not really good at learning vicariously. And now I do think, though, that I like having a company like Tesla in the industry, because I think they push us, they they make it they they do. They, you know, they really think outside the box, they do crazy things. Sometimes it's really stupid. But it is still, I think important in an industry that is has a lot of legacy issues with it, that we have somebody that thinks so far out. I you know, it's people ask, you know, oh, well, you know, electric cars are so popular now, because of Tesla, like, no, people are buying a Tesla, it happens to be an electric car. But they are buying into Elon Musk's dream. And that is what and people want to be part of his world. And, you know, if, if, God forbid, something happens to him, I just don't see Tesla continuing like Apple was able to transition with Tim Cook is obviously, you know, we knew that Steve Jobs was ill and, and it was more, you know, established. But it's just it's, it's a really, you know, building a company around a person, a car company round one character, Sam Abuelsamid 1:28:17 any big company, Rebecca Lindland 1:28:18 any because, you know, I was telling somebody, you know, I said when you think about these newer companies coming up, but like, think about Nike, we don't think about the guy that started Phil Knight, was that his name? Dan Roth 1:28:30 Right? We don't think about him, we think about Nike. And if anything you think about Michael Jordan. That's a super interesting analogy. Because, you know, like, Tesla started off with their own sort of bespoke version of a lotus. Nike was importing Tiger running shoes, slapping a brand on it and selling them. So yeah, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt you. Rebecca Lindland 1:28:54 I mean, it's it's i think that you know, again, I there's definitely a lot of issues with Tesla. There's no doubt but I am grateful that they're in the industry, because I think they do push us. Dan Roth 1:29:05 Oh, yeah. I agree with that. I think, you know, to play at the apple analogy a little bit. I don't worry so much about somebody replacing Elan musk as the figurehead of that company. What makes the car is great, because they are they truly innovative, that's going to continue. And very much like there's a contingent of people who are very loyal to Apple hardware. I'm, I mean, I'm on a MacBook Pro right now and I might when I need to replace my production machines. I'm looking at Mac Pro's and stuff as my first stop, not because other solutions don't exist. They do. And there's lots of actually other very clever ways to fill the same need from a lot lower cost. And it's just that there's this is a known quantity. I know that I'm going to get x amount of quality x amount of user experience. And it's going to cost me more. But I'm also going to get 10 years of life out of that thing that I'm not necessarily going to get from another similar product and the some of the quality issues. I think the owners are very forgiving, and they can solve them. It's not, it's not the end of the company, the fact that their paint sucks that they can't bolt the unibody together correctly, you can fix that. What you can't really necessarily fix is that engineering culture that they have, that they have now pulled the rest of the industry into. Which is interesting, because I think you can turn the rest of the industry into more clever engineering faster than you can get them to learn those actual car building skills that they've already got. So we'll see who wins in the end in the race, and we'll see if they, they actually want to ever turning a profit. Tesla, they've they've they played with the books a little bit too much for my tastes. I feel like there's a lot of shadiness going on there. And it's time you know, they've been around for over 10 years, 15 years, it's time for you to act like a legit business, not a startup where everything is a complete mess. Unknown Speaker 1:31:16 Yeah. Oh, good. Dan Roth 1:31:19 Right. No, you go ahead. Unknown Speaker 1:31:20 You You haven't said much. When I heard you, I was just Unknown Speaker 1:31:21 gonna say living in Southern California where one out of four or one out of five cars I see on the road as a Tesla. A lot of people just don't care. Like, they don't care, you know, they got out of an h6 or they got out of that least three series of that five series. And the Tesla is the new hotness, or, you know, it's, you know, they get the carpool sticker, and they don't care that it costs $3,000 to repair a screen or, you know, to them, it's it's the new appliance, it's not a you know, it's it's also, you know, as this is like the Rebecca factor, you know, like, the Tesla is definitely a status symbol in Southern California, definitely, like, you know, like, you know, ge 63, M, whatever, all this stuff. Yeah, that's great. But if you could have a, you know, not only a Tesla, but like, you get a custom wrap on it, or you get wheels, or you get whatever I mean, that's definitely that says something about you, you know, Dan Roth 1:32:18 but and demographically, though, so the people who are those early adopters, and who can put up with that stuff, definitely afford to put up with it. Unknown Speaker 1:32:27 Another car a Rebecca Lindland 1:32:30 car, exactly right. Dan Roth 1:32:31 So I think that's what's kept us out of seeing that $35,000 model three that they actually offered for at least close to it, there, when you, when you get down to that price level, that car has to be absolutely Florida Rebecca Lindland 1:32:43 jazz, for sure. Unknown Speaker 1:32:46 What we're gonna say, we're gonna say, the quality is the cystic, and there are literally hundreds of 1000s of Tesla's out there that don't have problems. And if you're one of those people, it is a joy of a car to drive. And I borrowed my buddy's performance m three for 10 days. And granted, I came out of a Jeep, and another 12 year old car, right, so I take that for what it's worth, right. But it was the most relaxing vehicle I driven in a long time, it was smooth, effortless power. It was nice to be able to just come home and plug it in, and not worry about the gas station, like I can see how the industry can change and how consumers mindsets can change once once they get into it. And you know, Rebecca, you're tired. You're saying like, Hey, you know, you know, you made one point you said it was one thing but not the other it you know how it has some people are buying a Tesla because of you know, it's a Tesla and not because it's an electric car, but I think they're doing both. Like I think Tesla is changing the public mindset in terms of what you can do and what's acceptable. Rebecca Lindland 1:33:53 Yeah, I think I think that now, it's, it's kind of the neighborhood effect of, you know, I guess I like it, you know, so all of a sudden, you're seeing all of these, and your neighbor had one, and you can actually go and talk to him or her about it. And that's it. That's a really powerful thing. I think that so so you know, probably the first few years. So when I worked in Saudi Arabia, we actually studied Tesla buyers versus Nissan LEAF buyers, and they were not the same. Unknown Speaker 1:34:28 That was, what, five years ago. Unknown Speaker 1:34:36 Well, what Rebecca Lindland 1:34:38 was interesting, though, is that their income was not that different. Between the Nissan buyer, the leaf buyer, and the buyer, their income actually was, was close to their education level was close. There were there were definitely some overlaps from a demographic standpoint, but not from an attitudinal standpoint, that and their reason for purchase was variable. Very different, as well. And the Tesla was all about the status symbol. The leaf was about saving the world that Tesla was, this is a status symbol. It's great that it saves the world. But that's not why I'm buying it. But I do think that you're signaling. Yes. Virtue signaling. Unknown Speaker 1:35:17 Exactly. Yeah. But Rebecca Lindland 1:35:18 I do think that it's, it has evolved. Dave, you're absolutely right. It has evolved, where and again, it's that neighborhood effect. Now all of a sudden, you can talk to people and not a dealership or something, or you know, somebody that's with a bias. You can talk to your neighbor and see their experience. Dan Roth 1:35:34 So hang on, though. Which would you be? Would you be a Lyft driver or a Lyft? buyer or a Tesla buyer? Rebecca Lindland 1:35:42 Oh, my God, I live in Greenwich, Connecticut. What do you think I'm gonna be? Definitely a Tesla. Dan Roth 1:35:52 I go for that like curmudgeonly, like, it doesn't matter whether you've got old money or not like a witch. I don't just so everybody knows. I would just I haven't find the leaf. Yeah, where my idealism. And it's just enough, right? It's I mean, Unknown Speaker 1:36:06 look at Alex Roy, though, remember how big of a critic he's still he's a critic of a Tesla. But then he bought a model three, and look how much Look how much his opinion has changed. I mean, yeah, he still faults the company when they're faulting, but it's still a viable product, you know, like, Dan Roth 1:36:20 yeah, yeah, I think that's, that's true. I think. For me, it's, I'll Sam Abuelsamid 1:36:24 be curious to see what Alex does when the lease comes up on his model three, though. Another one, or, you know, some, because now, right now, we're at a stage where we're getting a whole bunch of new product coming up, that is much more viable, you know, much more appealing, you know, that the industry has learned that you can't just go out and do something like the leaf, you know, where, you know, this is something that's going to appeal to environmentalists, it's got to be something that appeals on its own traits, you know, like what you said, Dave, you know, driving, it was relaxing, and effortless and, you know, the rush of power? Well, you get the same feeling from almost any modern Evie. Now, you know, you drive a monkey or a Kona electric or any number of other V's. And you know, that experience is exactly the same. And you don't have some of the downsides of owning a Tesla. Dan Roth 1:37:26 All right, well, we could do this like all night. So let's, let's move on to something else for me. Okay, just kidding it the circular testified. Unknown Speaker 1:37:38 Any more guests lined up working on it? Dan Roth 1:37:40 Yeah. So actually, we could throw that right now. And I'll cut it into the show. So the other day, one of the things that we talk about a lot is, how products are, how cars are marketed and how those campaigns happen. And we talked about usually when the cars are discontinued, we say, you know, they're not really I didn't actually try to sell that. And so I actually had talked to a friend at agency called zubi, advertising down in Miami. His name's Henry Gomez. He's got a podcast, called the brief brothers, with another guy who has been in advertising for a long time. And he reached out at one point a couple years ago, when I had been talking some smack about the Ford pride, or Ford proud campaign that's still running. Because I'm a big critic of automotive advertising. I think that they just, they're struggling to figure out how to talk to people. And so I wanted to circle back with him and talk about that a little bit more in depth, and just everybody's idea of how advertising is done. for automotive especially, is usually not correct. They don't understand the industry. The same as you know, the logistics of car building. seems really simple from the outside. And it's it's not. So Henry and I talked for a good 40 minutes. And that's if you're a patron, you've already got it. But for all the other listeners, cut that into the show now. And you can listen to me tell Henry that he was right. So thanks for making time. We actually first talked because I was on Twitter, as I often am saying snarky crap, I think it was Twitter or LinkedIn or something. But I said some snarky crap a couple years ago, about a Ford campaign. And you reached out sort of calm and steady and said, Hey, you might be surprised. These ads are different because, you know, I work in advertising and I work in direct response, which is a lot different than than brand advertising or, you know, selling cars. And so I often have opinions that sometimes don't, don't always take into account all of the things that you guys have to deal with. So your background is is Automotive in advertising and marketing, not strictly automotive, but if you could just give us you know, start off with the cliffnotes of who you are and what you do. Sure. So, Unknown Speaker 1:40:13 um, I worked in an ad agency, the agency I worked at azubi advertising, we're in Miami, Florida, we're part of WP, the largest advertising PR agency holding company in the world. I've been working here I'll be coming up on three years, I've been in the ad industry for going on 25 years. I work in strategy, which means I, I deal with a lot of consumer research, I write creative briefs basically get the creative assignments going. And I kind of go through a lot of research and and data and business data to get to what's important for the creators to develop the advertising and but the reason that we kind of got in touch was because you were tweeting, and I was I was actively searching tweets about for because I had just started working on this account, and it was my first automotive account, I have a lot of fast food experience. In my career, I've worked in McDonald's, Burger King, subway Dunkin, but I hadn't ever worked on an automotive account. So I was like absorbing as much information as I could. And at that time, the big story in the industry, trade press was about Ford having this goal review for a new ad agency. And it was a big deal, because the incumbent ad agency, which is my sister agency, GTV had been working in some form, like the relationship between J. Walter Thompson, which is a web agency, and Ford goes back into the 1940s. So it's a long standing relationship, and all of a sudden the Earth moves. And Ford was having this review. And it got into the trade press that widening Kennedy, New York had won the review, and that they were going to be launching a new campaign about Ford pride. And in typical trade publication fashion, you know, they didn't have a lot of the inside scoop, they had like some broad strokes. And they said, you know, it's gonna be that for pride. They are more interested in the story of how this account had moved from one agency to another, Dan Roth 1:42:34 maybe the size of the media by two, you know, like just how much money they're going to spend. Unknown Speaker 1:42:37 Yeah. But, you know, having been working on one of the roster agencies, I had been exposed to the new campaign very early on, in fact, that was in Dearborn, Michigan, basically, that they that it became revealed that they were going to go with this campaign that was widely attended. And so we were exposed to it early on. And of course, I couldn't tell you, because of confidentiality, sure what the campaign was really all about, I I can only tell you that what Ad Age said really didn't really cover it. And that is somebody who's worked in advertising and branding for a couple decades, I thought it was new and interesting, more in a category where you don't often see new and interesting work. And in fact, when the campaign launched in, I want to say it was like, October of that year, it was during football season, I went and looked at a bunch of tweets, kind of same thing as I liked you. And there was a lot of positive commentary about about the campaign about Bryan Cranston, the voice of the campaign. Yep, that created that. And it was definitely something different for Ford. You know, and I think different in the category. So that's kind of how we, we first started, we first got in touch that we got in touch on LinkedIn, and we've kind of maintained a little bit of a relationship ever since. Dan Roth 1:44:01 Sure. And you were right. In one of the reasons why it's it's almost easy to sort of pick on automotive is because they're having a really hard time though it's such a diverse market, and it's so stratified in a way it's not like it was in the 60s 70s or 80s, where you put out the car and that's it, you know, this is your choices. You can get a car or a pickup or a station wagon. There's a lot of different choices and different demographics and different uses. Now that kind of didn't exist in the past and it's it's, there's also different channels to advertise to people. So you're not necessarily finding people on broadcast. So sports is different a little bit because there's there is a diverse audience but other than sports, there's not really an easy way. Unknown Speaker 1:44:51 I think it goes deeper than that. I think automobile makers, automakers have a unique set of challenges that a lot of other brands don't have. And I start with a distinction of company and brand, right? Um, we use, we throw the word brand around a lot, but you can have a really good company, but not have a very strong brand. And I think that that's the case for a lot of bottle makers, because these are companies that were founded 100 years ago, 80 years ago, 90 years ago, in the era before Modern Marketing, right? So I'm going to use for just an example. But it could be any manufacturer, you know, well, their core competency isn't in marketing, their core competency is in design and engineering. It's in manufacturing, it's in dealing with suppliers, it's in dealing with regulations, it's in dealing with dealers. And so they're really their core competency is around the design and building of the car and everything that goes into it. And marketing is almost like an afterthought. So I think the difference between modern brands that were born like post 1980s, as marketing became more formalized is that you don't start a company today without figuring out what your marketing strategy is, what your brand stands for, and what your brand purposes. But back then these legacy companies didn't have that. So you kind of have it. They are kind of antiquated in the way that they look at marketing. And that's true, I think just across the board in the auto space, with the exception of the news, like startups, like the Tesla's of the world, that were you know, born yesterday, literally, right? So yeah, you're kind of born into this environment, where marketing is everything and, and even then they don't use like paid advertising a ton, right? They have a different model. And they're also still in that growth stage of their of their existence. They're not in that mature state of like, Where am I going to get that incremental 1% growth? Because that's not that's just not where they are in their lifecycle. So I think it's fascinating, but it is a function of, you know, automobile manufacturers also have the purchase cycle is long, right? Like, between moments in time when I'm going to be in the market for an automobile. 5678 years can pass, right? Like, the more reliable cars become right? Like Dan Roth 1:47:32 them, the more they can almost like work yourself out of a job, right? Unknown Speaker 1:47:36 Not only that, you know, there's a lot of substitutes now, so you can get a reliable used car, right for a fraction of what a new car possibly you can do ride sharing, and not buy a car. I think we're seeing generations of kids growing up, like when I was 15, like I was counting the days down until I got my brother's license. And to get my car today that, you know, they're getting chauffeured around to soccer practice, and whatever it is a lacrosse, and they don't have a desire to get behind the wheel of the car and deal with traffic and the stress and all that. So it's also kind of a weird moment for for automakers. Dan Roth 1:48:15 Yeah. So, you know, to me like that, seeing that consistent struggle with how to how to find that customer now. I sort of feel like they both that agencies sometimes struggle with this and the automaker's their clients struggle with it, and I'm sure there's tension there. And there's I think there's a lot of reasons for it. But I wanted to hear your your take on it. And maybe from like the, the blank page, say there's there's a new model, and they want to sell it and they come to you how does that start? Because I think people have imagined the process a lot differently than it actually happens. Unknown Speaker 1:48:53 Great, great example, you know, obviously, and it's another point right? Where, where a lot of times marketing is at the end of the line, right? So that the product designer somebody decides they there's going to be a new nameplate or an all new and you know, we hear about it, we start doing research and we start but but the reality is that a lot of it is being driven by that by that company and and it's being driven by this is the way it's always been done. We're starting to see it a little different. I'm not going to reveal any secrets. But Ford it has been out in the press the Ford is going to unveil soon a compact truck, which is going to be a new segment smaller than the current what is the mid size trucks like the the Ranger is in that mid tacomas in that mid size. So Ford's gonna be coming out with a with a compact truck smaller than the Ranger. And what was really heartening during them working in that process so far has been the fact that there was a lot of consumer research done to find out what the needs of the consumer Rather than to say we're going to build this product is, we're going to go out and find out what is the need, and then we're going to design a product to it. So that's you're starting to see more marketing orientation. In the manufacturers then there used to be where it was, you know, the I think the old adage of Henry Ford saying they could have it any color they want, as long as it's black, like, there was a point in time where the manufacturer had the leverage, right, but now consumers have the choice and leverage and but you brought up another interesting point, which is, most manufacturers have a range of nameplates in a range of segments, right? So it's hard to organize one brand that represents everything, to all of those different types of consumers, right, like that compact truck, consumer is going to be very different than the person who's buying a heavy duty full size truck, like a like an F 250. Right. So, you know, it's hard to create a master brand that works with all of these sub segments, I think where you've seen it work well is with brands like GE, that they kind of have a niche right there. And that, you know, off road adventures thing for GMC there in that truck, SUV space. And I think that's why you see board kind of moved to a couple years ago when they said, You know what, doesn't make sense for us to compete in all these segments that were like the seventh eighth favorite car or vehicle in that segment, when we're really known for our trucks and our SUVs. And let's concentrate on that core competency. And so I think that's part of the struggle for autumn auto manufacturers when it comes to marketing. Certainly the stuff that you mentioned with regards to digital advertising, and all that is changing the landscape. But I don't think it changes. And as much as people think it's still about communications, it's still about building brand, it's still about creating desire in consumers, whether I'm showing it to you in a 15 second, Facebook online video, or I'm showing it to you in a 32nd TV spot during the football game. That objective is the same and the tactics are somewhat similar. I don't think that that's a big part of it. I think what the challenge for a lot of marketers, not just in the auto space, but specifically in the auto space is that they're big institutional clients that move slowly and have a lot of layers of bureaucracy. And that's just kind of the way it is. So anything that you can do to kind of streamline the decision making process to have agreement on this is what our brand stands for, across all learning plates across all of the segments, and have that be strong. You know, a lot of manufacturers have name plates that are stronger than the than the parent brand. Dan Roth 1:52:50 Sure, Mustang Bronco. Unknown Speaker 1:52:53 Those are named plates that have the means something. Most people recognize that they're Ford's but Mustang is its own thing, right? And and even if you look at the Mustang, it doesn't have a Ford oval badge on it. Right? So part of it is by design, because they want to keep it pure. But you know, it is a challenge. If your four is like, you know, Mustang is kind of out there on its own Broncos out there on its own. Um, so and that's true of all manufacturers, I think that have, you know, some particularly strong nameplates versus others. Dan Roth 1:53:30 Yeah, so do you find that you have to educate your your clients now on how that, that effort that effort to find people, you know, are you educating them on, here's how grassroots works on, say, social media, right? Like, if we're trying to find those people, it's going to take this amount of effort. And it's, it's not like broadcasts used to be where you just put the message out, you're gonna have to curate that you're gonna need to have people on that that's going to be a full time job for a few people to interact and tell your story in a slightly different way. Unknown Speaker 1:54:04 I think most clients are on board with that. Now, a few years ago, that wasn't the case, right? We were kind of like these brave new world of digital advertising. I mean, things have moved really fast. I mean, if you go back five or six years, there really wasn't even paid advertising on Facebook, it was all organic, right? And then they started with a paid and then they started throttling back organic reach or digital marketing five years ago is very different than what it is now which is very similar to what all types of marketing or before which is pay to play you. You want access to my audience, you got to pay me X amount of money. And we're gonna give you at a CPM, this is what you're gonna pay. So I think the clients are on board with that now, in a way simplifies things because before in order to really be effective in the digital arena, he did have to kind of curate community and all that I think nowadays, what you're seeing is, well, if we throw enough money at it, we can expose a lot of people on Facebook. to it. It kind of is, the attention spans are short, and there isn't a lot of appetite for, you know, long term things that have to be like curated over time. But that's also just the problem with the marketing industry in general. I'm can, Unknown Speaker 1:55:23 yes. Unknown Speaker 1:55:26 Consistency is really important. You know, when you're changing agencies, and you're changing taglines, and you're changing brand position, every three or five years, there's no way that customers gave me the best brands were built over 20 3040 years, and they never deviate too far from the formula, they might reinvent themselves, or the formula given the current times. But usually, if you do the work properly, you'll find that your brand stood for something at a certain point in time, and that something is timeless, it's it doesn't matter. Um, so the real trick is distribute out what is timeless from your company's early history and, and success. And apply that now and not abandon it for the flavor of the month and say, Oh, it's influencer marketing, we're gonna do everything. You know, there's a lot of follow the shiny object industry. Dan Roth 1:56:20 Yeah, well, you know, you bring up a good point, because we found back, say, five years ago, it was, it was more of the Wild West, especially on digital platforms, where you could get lucky, almost in game the system and get that organic reach. And then they, they just, they smothered it and to the point where organic now is only a long term play. And if you're going to launch something, you've got to pay. And it's actually a lot easier to because the companies have set up those marketplaces, and they figured out that we can get actual recurring revenue. If we allow people to buy space on our networks, they built these shadow broadcast networks inside their platform. Unknown Speaker 1:57:04 I mean, look, I say all the time is like, what's a YouTube pre roll ad? I mean, it looks a lot like a TV. Yeah, to me, Dan Roth 1:57:11 that's exactly what it is. The only difference is like, Okay, what do we want the person to do? And and what can we do? So, that's the question is, like, Unknown Speaker 1:57:19 are we getting a lot of the advertising you see on YouTube, it doesn't ask you to do anything different than what they asked you to do on TV, which is better off Hey, look at us. This is our new thing. You know, I don't watch a ton of regular TV. I watch a lot of YouTube, I'm into sailing. So I watch a lot of sailing content on YouTube. Nice. So but so I'm gonna expose to TV ads all the time, because they're appearing on my now what I get is probably a little different than what you'd get based on your interests. But there's probably some stuff like the big product launches for the big brands, you probably both getting them because they're buying everybody. Dan Roth 1:57:58 Right, right. They're just spray and pray Unknown Speaker 1:58:01 the same way that they might might have 20 years ago, just by Prime Time to buy a broad cross section of audience, at the same time that they're buying certain niche programming like, you know, Mutual of Omaha's wild, or whatever. Yeah. But um, yeah, you know, it's, you know, as you mentioned, the early days of the Wild West, you know, everybody remembers the famous Oreo Super Bowl. case, Dan Roth 1:58:28 we use it as a case study, actually, in one of our company meetings, I brought it up and presented as like this is, look how fast they moved. And look how emotional it is. And now look at you know, you get the earned media on the backside of it because they did a thing. And now you've got primetime news channels, actually taking your ad and putting it in their broadcast. You didn't buy that you you could but Unknown Speaker 1:58:50 that's like lightning in a bottle that isn't really replicatable basis, right? Like you, you if you have a very digital at all, I'm just thinking that there's been a convergence right between what was at one time, a very considered a different silo altogether, and what we've traditionally known as paid advertising, and marketing, even influencers, like if you go back to the 1950s, you know, you paid Jackie Gleason $50,000 to smoke your cigarette during the broadcast and you Dan Roth 1:59:26 sponsored his TV show. Unknown Speaker 1:59:29 I mean, these are celebrity endorsements. They're less than known celebrities, but in the world that they occupy, they're well known celebrity. So there's nothing new. There's just kind of new wrinkles. Yeah, that's the way that I see it. Dan Roth 1:59:47 Well, and you know, you pointed out the CPM, you know, cost for cost per 1000. And that's really like that near customer acquisition costs. They sort of like that's where the rubber hits the road, across everything. So if they can only show it to 20,000 people, but that winds up getting them 300 sales, versus showing it to a million, yeah, for 300 sales, which is more efficient. Unknown Speaker 2:00:11 So it makes sense. The converse is true, too, I think, early on, right? The promise of digital was hyper targeting, right? Like, we're only going to target the people that are most likely to, but you can, when the whole country is on Facebook, you can use Facebook as a broad reach medium to generate huge awareness for your general brand or product. If you, you know, if you're, if you're in a niche, it's great, because you can buy on that niche. But if you're a big consumer brand, and you want to target all women, Facebook, you can do it with TV, and you can do with Facebook. So I think that that's one of the things that you don't hear a lot about, but it's how to use some of these things that we're here to for thought of as you know, shooting with a rifle instead of a shotgun while you use the shotgun approach to Dan Roth 2:00:59 Yeah, well, you can you kind of have to when it's a brand of the size of, you know, Ford or GM, or, you know, one of those automakers. Let's talk a little bit specifically about what zubi does, because your focus more on a multicultural approach. So that's what does that mean, alternative advertising? Unknown Speaker 2:01:18 So I'm glad you asked. So zubi advertising is named after a long, Spanish last name. And she cut it to zubi. Because she said, If I had named Louise that I thought I'd still be looking for my first client. So as she founded the agency in the early 70s, she had started out she was a Cuban refugee fled communism came to Miami with a high school degree and needed to find a job, went to an ad agency and got a job as a secretary, they famously asked her a bunch of questions. And her answer was, I don't know what I'll learn. And she got the job. And in about 10 years, she learned the industry forward and backward. And she she established Ruby advertising at that time working on real estate clients. So Miami's a big boom bust real estate market with developments at all. And that's kind of what she grew up in at that first agency that she worked at. So she started doing what she needed, which was real estate advertising in mid 70s. There was a bust as often happens in boom bust cycles. And she, the agency almost went bankrupt. So she started seeing these newspaper articles about how Hispanics were going to be the largest minority group in the country in the 1980s. Like they, the demographers could already see that eventually Hispanics would overtake blacks as the largest minority in the country. And so she said, I'm, that's what I'm going to go after I'm Hispanic. There's a market here and nobody's talking to him. So she began evangelizing to corporate America, and, you know, began a long history of bringing Big Blue Chip brands into the multicultural marketing world. brands like PepsiCo, Winn Dixie, the grocery store down here, where our historical client rosters, just the who's who of blue chip agencies, and even I mean, clients, and even today, we have the Ford Motor Company. That's an account we've had for 25 years. Wow, the JPMorgan Chase. That's a client we've had for 15 years. So we work in the US Hispanic market, historically, that men's Spanish language advertising historically had meant subpar budgets. And, you know, fighting for your budget and your existence every year, over time as the Hispanic boom. Continued, boom, yeah. They're the space that Hispanic agency space grew and grew. And it was very vibrant around the turn of the century around 2000. You know, we had this immigration boom in the 90s, in the early 2000s. And that immigration was followed by a baby boom among those immigrants. So that's why the explosive growth and expanding market what we've seen since is it, you know, the market continues to expand the space for dedicated Hispanic agency has contracted, there's far fewer today than there were I mean, in 2007 2008, I work for the largest Hispanic agency in the country. That agency doesn't exist anymore, and we're talking 13 years later. So um, but it Curiously, digital is an interesting area, right? Because now it doesn't become about language anymore. It's not just because our problem was that the media It always was in two buckets, English or Spanish. Right, we were given our area to play in, which was the Spanish language media. And the general market agents would play in the English language media or the general market media, right? But now things like Facebook, like I can be talked to as a Hispanic, in English or in Spanish, if you target me, because I let Facebook know that I'm Hispanic, and I'm interested in certain things that so I might get an ad from Ford in Spanish or in English, either could be produced by zoom, my agency. So it is fascinating, but it's at its core, there's nothing new about multicultural marketing, it's segment marketing. Marketing basically says, Hey, is there a segment that you can talk to maybe a little bit differently about your brand and achieve better results than if you just talk to them? As one of 330 million Americans, right? Dan Roth 2:05:59 Well, yeah, and that's what I wanted to touch on that. Because the, what do you do that is different? It's not just when when we do it, it's not just translating the English ad into Spanish, a, because you have to be sure, like, if I'm putting an ad on the air in Miami, it's got to be the right Spanish. I can't send it to Spain, and use Spain, Spanish in Miami, and I can't have somebody from Venezuela translate like it needs to be the right dialect, and it needs to be a native speaker. And so all of that just that approach, What changes is it? Is it just, you know, the things you're portraying? How do you make us pointers? Unknown Speaker 2:06:34 There's, I mean, it's a spectrum, right? So there are occasions where we're asked to look at an idea or a campaign. And it works perfectly fine. And frankly, in the old days of Hispanic advertising, unfortunate, unfortunately, a lot of agencies, Hispanic agencies would tell the client No, you can't do that. That's not going to work. And they really didn't have any backing for that. But there are certainly certain things that resonate better with certain audiences. And things that don't resonate as well. I'm going to give you an example. So the Ford Ranger, if you're familiar with midsize pickup trucks, like basically the way all manufacturers including Toyota, including Chevy, including forward position, midsize pickup trucks is this kind of off road adventure vehicles, right? They, they're trying to keep a purity of the segment to keep it from the full size trucks, because they don't want to cannibalize they don't want somebody to come in for a full size truck and then leave with a mid size like usage areas, etc. Right? So midsize trucks are generally positioned as these off road adventure vehicles where the full size trucks are more workhorses for you know, for use for towing and hauling for work purposes and so forth. Right? So Unknown Speaker 2:08:04 what, how does Hispanics experience the outdoors? How do they internalize being outdoors? What activities do they do when they're outdoors, all of those things are very different than what a non Hispanic white middle class person would experience. Number one, a lot of Hispanics are just coming into their own financially, which means they haven't had a lot of time for exploring national parks and, you know, free soloing non Baldy or something, you know, also, there's kind of like a more cultural difference in terms of Hispanics want to go out with their family, they want to have a leisure time, they want to enjoy nature more passively. Where we kind of see the stereotype on general markets. I like I want to master myself, I want to master nature. So if you're launching this product, and it's intended for the outdoors, then it behooves you to know how Hispanics experience the outdoors and how they were actually doing that assignment right now again, because Bronco sport, we're working on a campaign to launch Bronco sport to the Hispanic market, which will start running in February, which we're very excited about. But that's an example right of how the premise for the whole segment is different for Hispanics. So we want to portray that in a more tailored way that Hispanics won't look at it and say, Oh, no, that's not for me. I'll give you another example. And another category. I was on both Burger King and McDonald's first burger. And then I went to the agency that handle McDonald's also in the Hispanic market. At that time, Burger King had a campaign that was very effective for them, but it was what I would what I labeled frat boy humor. It was a very slacker oriented type of cynical satire humor. And they kind of created this this world and McDonald's has always been about families. And the funny thing was, and you'd go into focus groups and you show them Burger King advertising, they would say, I don't recognize this world, we're the kids were the families, right, like, and so the Burger King was very be very, in one way very disciplined to what their brand was about. But what they didn't realize was that they needed to adopt it a little bit for the Hispanic market, which saw kind of this fictional world that they were creating around the king. And all this is kind of an alien world. That's not a reflection of what I live in. And, frankly, and I don't mean this in a demeaning way, Hispanic consumers, because a lot of them were immigrants, a lot of them didn't necessarily have the level of educational attainment that we would expect from a non Hispanic white Americans. family has been here for generations. You know, as consumers, they're not as sophisticated, right? They're more see insane, they're more and that was true at the time, you know. So and that's changing. Obviously, like I mentioned, there's a big baby boomer Hispanics that are born in the US, they're gonna be English, dominant, higher educational attainment. But the point is that there are all these nuances that you have to navigate when you're dealing with multicultural audiences to deal with, there's differences between blacks and Hispanics, right? Like, if you think about the, the, the prototypical African American story is the descendant of slaves, the descendant of somebody that was brought here against their will. And that creates a very different attitude about America and the brands that are American than the typical Hispanic story, which is, somebody in my family decided to come here voluntarily to look for better opportunities, somehow, were able to get them. Right. So that's a completely both minority markets and a lot of cases sharing the same neighborhoods, but a completely different outlook on life and on the country, and on the companies that are trying to solve and stuff. Dan Roth 2:12:03 So it's a it's a, you know, matching the lived experience, I guess, to what you're portraying, on screen, so that it sort of you pick, you picture yourself in that, in that environment in that scenario, I think is what I when I pitch it, I'm trying to say like, you have to make it a little bit aspirational. You have to understand the people and you have to make it so that they can put themselves in there. Unknown Speaker 2:12:28 Something really important, which is our job isn't just to put a mirror back on the Hispanic constituency, this is your life buy from us. It's, it's for us to understand what's in that mirror and say, Okay, so the aspiration for that person is this, because of these reasons. And here's your thing that we want you to shoot just fire to the new Mustang or the new Ranger or the new Bronco sport. It's not just because if you just reflect back to them, that really is a motivator. You want to reflect back to them like their best self. Right with Right, Dan Roth 2:13:00 exactly. Otherwise, you're the news. Yeah, so no, that's great. I was actually it's funny. I, you moved there, as I was gonna ask you anyway, just sort of how cars are different than fast food anyway. And so your last example was was sort of brings it together where they're not necessarily different at all. I Unknown Speaker 2:13:17 mean, I can tell you know, the other thing was really interesting. And if you look at fast food, you had Hispanics had lower frequency of visiting than African Americans, but they had bigger ticket, right. So the average Hispanic was spending more money each time they went, but they went a little less than African Americans, African Americans would go a lot. But they would, they would buy like the lower priced menu items. Often they were buying for only themselves, right, which will drive average ticket down when you're buying for yourself and your family drives average pick it up. So you see differences just in usage of like patterns and occasions, like parties with kids was something really big for Hispanics, because we're having a baby boom, right. And so parties, you know, I had a friend who I have a friend who's a realtor, and his wife is a doctor. So him being a realtor, you know, he's in a car and mobile all the time. So he's like, Mr. Mom, he's the one that drops the kids at school picks them up. And all of these things that used to tell me that McDonald's nearest were near where we live, he called it the poor man's Chucky cheese. families would take their kids there and the kids are jumping up in the ball. Pit. Yeah, exactly. And so understanding that how the consumers actually use your products is a big part of it. And that not everybody is that, you know, middle class person from suburban Chicago, you know? Dan Roth 2:14:51 Yeah, yeah. Well, this has been great. I will I've taken more time more of your time than I thought so I will generously give you the last 20 minutes. Your day back. It was but I do want to just make sure that we mentioned your your podcast, because that was actually I saw it. And that's full circle. Like why I was like, Oh, I should talk to Henry, because you're doing a podcast that talks about all of this stuff. Not necessarily just for cars. But one of our on our podcast, one of the things that comes up a lot is how the cars that we talked about get marketed and cheap, we usually have opinions. So it's it's fascinating. Your podcast with Howard AIPAC is called the brief brothers, right? Why don't you let us know a little bit about that. Unknown Speaker 2:15:38 So the funny thing is, about two years ago, it'll be two years in March, Howard. I've known Howard for over a decade, I bought his book on Amazon, it was he wrote a book, how to write an inspired creative brief, I bought it. And then I brought him to my agency to lead a seminar on how to write inspire creative brief, because often there are people that aren't strategists that are charged with writing certain creative briefs. And I thought it would be good to get, you know, people exposure. And so we hit it off since then, and maintain a cordial relationship. So he texted me one day, and he sent me this paper that was drafted by the AMA, about collaboration between agencies and clients in drafting that creatively. And I had a very strong opinion of it. Today, actually, that episode, where we talked about it drops, but it was awesome. It was two years ago, and I said, You know what, we're having this debate. It's very fiery, we should probably do a podcast where we talk about all kinds of things about. So two years later, we finally launched the podcast, we're dropping one every Wednesday. You know, it's a nice audience, people that are interested in in advertising and creative briefing and creative briefs. But we also looked at a piece of creative every week, and we kind of dissect it from a strategy standpoint and say, What were they trying to do? What was the unique selling proposition? What was the target audience, things like that. And you mentioned in your email to me that, you know, by coincidence, the first piece of creative we reviewed was actually an automotive for Jeep, and it was the pale blue dot spot by Jeep in launching their, like all electric Wrangler. And Howard had a very strong take on how he was offended by it, because he's a Carl Sagan fanboy. And I'm more of a realist. And I kind of sided with the marketer, even though they're a competitor, and said, you know, what, I get what they're trying to do, and there's reasons for it, and they need to walk a fine line, and I think that they did it. And so that was kind of the Genesis, but yeah, every Wednesday, it's called the brief brothers. We're posting links on LinkedIn every Wednesday for and if you go to Howard Eibach com, HOWARD, iba ch Comm. He's got a section there called the brief brothers. And you can sign up for an email that will remind you every Wednesday that there's a new podcast and what the subject is, the creative will be reviewing and stuff like that. Cool. Cool, well, Dan Roth 2:18:13 hopefully you get some traction, it was really interesting to listen to and hear you guys sort of tee off against each other. Because I it's funny, I feel both sides of that one with the Jeep as well, they made a really nice Carl Sagan ad, but they didn't make such a great Jeep ad. But it is beautifully done. And and I see what they're going for. So it's funny, I can see both sides of that that argument, Unknown Speaker 2:18:33 I think, you know, I think that's really, we need in this day and age in this environment, we need more understanding and like, say, you know what I might be wrong. Like for me, let me open my mind a little bit to your point of view, and let's talk about it. And let's be respectful about it. And you know, I think that's the good thing about me and Howard is, you know, we both have immense respect for each other. He's a former copywriter and creative director. So he's approaching the brief from a different point of view than I am as a planner strategist. So Dan Roth 2:19:04 yeah, yeah. And they definitely go together, you know, anytime I have to start with creative, my first questions are, what's the strategy? What are we trying to do? So they definitely link up. So yeah, certainly, I'm gonna go check it out for the latest episode, and I suggest our audience does as well. And, you know, Henry, I want to thank you for your time here with it's my view agencies are busy and you spent 45 minutes on zoom with me, so I appreciate it. Unknown Speaker 2:19:31 No worries, sir. I'll be glad to come back. If you ever want to discuss anything Super Bowls coming up. I'm sure there's gonna be a lot of great auto ads or not so great auto ads to pick apart. Yeah, we Dan Roth 2:19:43 should have you back for that. I think that's that's a good idea. So we'll see what happens without the Super Bowl this year. Unknown Speaker 2:19:49 All right. Excellent. Unknown Speaker 2:19:53 Interesting, an idea for a guest and this is just me being selfish. You know, I'm a big fan of bottle wine and mouth. Right. I would enjoy here. I'm hearing him being interviewed, because he does all the interviewing. And I'm sure he's got lots of good stories. They come out once in a while. But I would enjoy a good interview with him good conversation with him to hear some of his histories. Rebecca Lindland 2:20:15 That's a great idea and Sam Abuelsamid 2:20:18 see if he'll come on the show with us. Dan Roth 2:20:19 Yeah, the auto blog podcast a couple of times back in the day, so I'm sure he's lovely. He'd make some make some time for us. And yeah, there's a there's a couple of surprises we've got lined up with guests. I don't think I'm ready to talk about it. But Sam Abuelsamid 2:20:35 I'm excited. Dan, Dan's got a really good one lined up. Yeah, Rebecca Lindland 2:20:38 it's so hard not to be Sam Abuelsamid 2:20:49 hard to get Alex on to though. Dan Roth 2:20:51 Yeah. Should Unknown Speaker 2:20:52 be great. Yeah. Unknown Speaker 2:20:53 Me make. Yeah. Unknown Speaker 2:20:56 I'll make a session about the flow of the show. Sure. And that is I listen to the show in pieces as I drive back and forth to work. So I may listen to 15 or 20 minutes at a time. And then I'll go to work. And then I'll listen to 15 or 20 minutes more. And so it seems like when you're talking about a car, often you'll say the name of the car at the beginning of the segment. And then if I turn on later, yes. No, I can't remember what you were talking about. Yeah. The day and you won't ever say the name of the car again. Rebecca Lindland 2:21:32 Did you send that to us? Are you the one that said that to it? Because somebody did it also mentioned the Dan Roth 2:21:37 same thing we've been doing? We've been pulling that crap on you guys since Yeah. Unknown Speaker 2:21:42 I'm glad to know it's not just me and and I'm even worse. I'll be listening or I'll be exercising and you'll be talking along the way. Unknown Speaker 2:21:49 What is it again? Dan Roth 2:21:50 mistake exercising? Unknown Speaker 2:21:51 Yeah. Unknown Speaker 2:21:55 Well, because you guys do such such an in depth job that your conversation be 15 minutes long, we Sam Abuelsamid 2:22:01 ramble on. Unknown Speaker 2:22:03 No, no, that's in depth. Rebecca Lindland 2:22:06 Very nice. Pr spin. I like that. Dan Roth 2:22:11 Now we'll make it a point to try to remember to surface what the hell we're talking about a little Unknown Speaker 2:22:20 bit, but just see it. You know, every? I don't know. It's kind of like when the sports casters are calling a game. They have a timer. So they'll know every so often to say the score just because you t in the end. You want to know the score within the first three, four minutes. Sure. Sam Abuelsamid 2:22:35 That's good. I like that. We'll definitely do that. Dan Roth 2:22:37 Cool. Guys, thank Rebecca Lindland 2:22:39 you so much for joining us. Yeah, thank you. Unknown Speaker 2:22:42 It was it was fun. Rebecca Lindland 2:22:46 We appreciate it. And maybe next time we can do like drinks. Unknown Speaker 2:22:50 That way you guys weren't drink. Dan Roth 2:22:57 One show that was a bad idea. I didn't teach tonight. slept for three days. No, I Unknown Speaker 2:23:04 could remember. Dan Roth 2:23:16 Thanks for listening to wheel bearings. Hey, we love to listen to our listeners to drop us an email to feedback at wheel bearings dot media with your thoughts. Questions are conversation starters. That's feedback at wheel bearings dot media. You can also find us on Twitter at wheel bearings cast. Don't use any vowels except for the A in cast. So that's WHLBR NGS cast. Thanks again. We hope to hear from you soon. Transcribed by https://otter.ai