Mike Gordon, bassist and co-founder of the seminal improvisational rock band Phish, joins Rhett to talk about his solo album Flying Games and the long, adventurous process of finishing the record. Mike and Rhett discuss grappling with creative roadblocks, what the “Ten-Thousand-Hour” rule really means, and the role that mindfulness and meditation play in songwriting. Mike reflects on the early days of Phish and explains how he transfers the creative flow he feels while performing with the band to other projects. It’s a jam-packed episode full of great stories and useful insight on the songwriting process and living a creative life.Flying Games is Gordon's sixth solo album. It was self-produced and recorded by longtime collaborator Jared Slomoff, and mixed by GRAMMY® Award-winning engineer Shawn Everett (Alabama Shakes, The War on Drugs). You can buy or stream it here.Mike Gordon website Follow Mike Gordon on IG @mike_gordonRhett Miller websiteFollow Rhett on IG @rhettmillerWheels Off is hosted and produced by Rhett Miller. Executive producer is Kirsten Cluthe. Editing by Matt Dwyer. Music by OLD 97’s. Episode artwork by Mark Dowd. Show logo by Tim Skirven. Distributed in partnership with Osiris Media. This podcast is available on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also ask Alexa to play it. Revisit previous episodes of Wheels Off with guests Rosanne Cash, Rob Thomas, Jeff Tweedy, The Milk Carton Kids, and more. If you like what you hear, please leave us a rating or review.