0:00

Right, everybody, Yes, wind

0:03

down with Jane Kramer, Michael Coos

0:05

and the

0:11

name change.

0:14

It's like a fish um

0:19

and Michael Casson. It's

0:22

like official, Oh

0:25

dad, Dad didn't get either abbreviation

0:30

mode. I hung out with Julie too late last night,

0:32

so yeah, that's true. I was breaking

0:35

up all my words. It's

0:37

out um

0:41

real fast. We just got to thank everyone

0:43

that came out to the podcast tour because it was insane,

0:45

mark like crazy, it

0:48

was nuts. I mean, the crowd

0:51

was amazing. Everyone asked awesome

0:53

questions, interaction. I felt like we

0:56

were comedians but also therapists.

0:59

And then I sang songs. It was it

1:01

was the coolest the three day thing we've

1:03

ever done. Shout out to everyone that went

1:05

because it was insane and just

1:08

I loved every second of it. Jinn and New York,

1:10

Boston, everyone showed up and it really just

1:12

it felt like a party every night, like it was crazy.

1:15

Like after the whole run, Jane and I are just in the back of

1:17

the bus like what just happened. We just

1:19

couldn't believe people showed up. It was cool.

1:21

It was really cool. Could you do this show in a room

1:24

three other people? Like if anybody's listening

1:26

to it and then you go and all these people are there cheering

1:28

for you, that's so great. It was crazy

1:31

and people like laughed. It was I don't

1:33

know, it's just like people laugh.

1:35

They did, they laughed, and I don't want to say some of the bits.

1:37

But like our opening song, we can't talk about it

1:39

just in case if we do another a

1:41

few dates, because the opening song that Michael

1:44

walks out too is hilarious.

1:46

It's perfect. It's the funniest thing ever. But

1:48

again, sorry, Mark, we can't share because

1:51

those are only for the live viewers, but

1:55

they know what we're talking about. Uh.

1:58

I'm really excited because we're

2:00

about to move. Yeah we

2:02

are. You're

2:04

sad? Um I am getting sad? Yeah?

2:08

Why well because

2:11

because it's here

2:13

and it's gonna be and

2:15

miserable and natural. Yeah. Same. Michael's

2:18

driving his truck cross country in a few days,

2:21

so it's gonna be interesting. Yeah, that'd be fun. Me

2:23

two dogs and my brother. Well, I've got the kids four

2:25

days, so which one? Yeah,

2:28

Ganna keeps throwing that at me. He's like, I'm gonna be stick with

2:30

the kids. I'm like, if you want to switch by all means go drive

2:32

two thousand miles across country. No, I would love to be

2:34

the passenger because I would want to stop along the way

2:37

and see things like I would want to do the Grand Canyons

2:39

again and do that route and

2:41

then maybe, I don't know, just stop at like all the cool

2:43

little touristy things like the big hay

2:45

ball or hey thing, the

2:48

world's biggest ball of yarn that

2:50

I just find that stuff super interesting, and

2:52

like, I don't know, they'd be such quality time.

2:55

And I know you also love quality

2:57

time. I love quality time. But

3:01

yeah, I drew the short straw. I

3:03

don't. You're riding with your brother that, which

3:05

I think is really cute. Michael has a

3:07

brother that's fourteen years younger than him,

3:10

so he's about to graduate high school. So

3:12

before he goes off to college, him and I are going to have this road

3:14

trip together, which is gonna be a really cool memory. Are

3:17

you guys gonna, you know, talk about

3:19

I'm sure he's already had the He've already had

3:21

the sex talk with him. He's eighteen

3:24

yet. Oh and his parents did find

3:26

condoms right? Yes? Oh

3:30

god Jack good.

3:32

He doesn't listen, No, he doesn't well

3:35

on your drive, y'all. It's

3:38

funny. It's probably not even his friends, his teachers probably

3:41

listen. Oh gosh,

3:43

I just okay, let me talk about

3:45

this really fast. We're at I was at a friend's house and

3:48

the kids were playing and

3:52

I don't know what to do. Mark, this is interesting. I kind

3:54

of want you to pipe him because you have kids older. So

3:57

it was arranged so Jolie's three,

3:59

one of the girls was for one of the boys was

4:01

five, and I took a

4:03

call in the other room because I was kind of the mom that was staying

4:06

down stairs with the kids, and

4:08

all of a sudden, the kids like, do you want to

4:10

live? Or do you want me to kill you? Do you want to die?

4:13

And I'm like, he didn't just say that, and

4:15

so I walked back in the room and he's just like, you

4:17

can go to heaven or I can kill you. You guys

4:19

want to die? And I just thought that was super inappropriate,

4:23

right, Yeah, I'd be horrified, but okay, I go, whoa

4:25

wha, I go, you can't. I was like, that's

4:27

very inappropriate language, and he's like, no, it's

4:29

not, and I said, yes, it is.

4:32

Um our daughter, my daughters three. I

4:34

don't want her hearing that, so please stop talking about

4:37

the D word. Thank you. But then I started

4:39

thinking about it, like should they know

4:41

death? And like that's the thing. What

4:43

age you're talking? He doesn't really know what

4:46

that means. He's five, he's five, so

4:48

he said, I believe he's five.

4:51

Yeah, right, so that's that age. Words. You're

4:53

impressionable, right, so you probably hear something. Well,

4:55

the girls were like laughing. I'm like, that's not funny. We're not

4:57

laughing about death guys because they don't know what They

5:00

don't really understand. Yeah, but the way he

5:02

was saying, he's like, I'm going to kill you. Oh. I mean,

5:04

regardless of understanding or not, he needs to know

5:06

not to say that period ever. Where

5:08

is he hearing that? That's exactly like kids.

5:12

That's what I'm just scared of. And those kids

5:14

know things sooner now. But

5:17

to say I'm going to kill you, that's the

5:19

thing that's up to the parents. That's

5:23

that's parenting. That's what that is. It's not

5:26

not parenting. Like if your kid ends

5:28

up saying that you did a bad job, but if you don't

5:30

talk about it and fix

5:33

that, then that's bad. Parenting and

5:35

like it. It just made me really uncomforma. But

5:39

a lot of those things have come up over the years where something will

5:41

come up with like, oh, we don't talk about that, But then in the back of

5:43

my mind, I'm like, should we be talking about that?

5:45

Should they know about because I mean, that's

5:48

one of the saddest things about being a parent, in

5:50

my opinion, is when they realize

5:52

that the world isn't rainbows and unicorns.

5:55

When they're three, everything's wonderful

5:57

in the world. The world is parks and play

5:59

dates and chicken nuggets and television

6:02

and everything is great. And then they start

6:04

to realize that there was a nine eleven

6:06

and that there are people who shoot people and

6:08

kill them in public places, and that's the stuff

6:11

that when they start to realize that stuff, it's heartbreaking.

6:14

Yeah, but when are they ready for that?

6:16

And when do you talk about

6:17

this? When shielding from that? And should

6:19

you ever shield them from that? And that's the part I've

6:21

always had a hard time. Um,

6:24

we've shielded them from that. We made the decision

6:26

to kind of keep that away from them, and then they kind

6:28

of will learn about it in school, they'll

6:31

learn about it in the world and then come

6:33

home and ask us about it, then we can talk about it. I don't

6:35

know if that's the best thing. It may not be, but

6:37

I think I think to your point, I see

6:40

why it would be the best thing, because if you and

6:42

your wife have offered in inviting

6:44

him, a yeah, a comfortable

6:46

environment for them to bring those kind of things to you,

6:49

then I think that backs up y'all's kind

6:51

of theory behind it. Now, if you didn't, if you

6:53

didn't have a comfortable household for them to bring up stuff

6:55

with you and didn't talk about it, then

6:58

there's no room for them, right, there's no space for them

7:00

to discuss it. Like Sandy Hook, we kept

7:03

from them very very

7:05

carefully because that was a long time ago, they were very young.

7:07

We were really really careful about that. We actually

7:09

left in the middle of a church service because

7:12

the pastors started going there were let's

7:14

go here, we all, let's go kids here. We But

7:17

since then, now when they happen, because they

7:19

won't stop happening, uh,

7:21

they they hear about it at school, so we have to

7:23

address it right away. So it's just I

7:25

think it's situational to My wife went to a seminar

7:28

recently that was specifically about sex talk

7:30

and how do you do that with your kids? And

7:33

the main lesson from the teacher

7:36

or whatever you call them was that, um,

7:38

when they come to you with questions, you answer them

7:40

honestly, and it's no big deal because

7:43

it scares us because when they come to us and

7:45

to ask a question that we can feel like it's completely

7:48

inappropriate about specific

7:51

sexual acts. I

7:53

don't know what that is, you know, that's our instinct. That's guy,

7:55

I don't want to talk about that. But that's not the

7:57

right move. The right move is yeah, that's what

7:59

this this and yeah, people do it

8:01

to make a big deals. We know

8:04

it's crazy. So I I this

8:06

isn't a plug. But I partnered with a

8:08

company of Committee for Children and it

8:10

was all about kids. Ninety

8:13

what was it was? It was nine. It

8:15

was like of kids know their

8:18

abuser. It when we're like we're going sexual

8:20

which is like the whole stranger danger thing, like that's not

8:23

even a that's that's

8:25

actually a myth. And I was myth.

8:27

This is not as impactful as people that are close

8:29

to you. Well, no, I mean I was taught stranger

8:31

danger. Well, yeah, I think you all are which

8:33

people they should kids should still not

8:36

go with a stranger. I should still understand that.

8:38

But that's talking to your kids

8:40

about like how to it

8:42

was it's actually really cool if guys should look. It's called

8:44

the Hot Chocolate Talk dot Org, but it's about

8:47

how to talk to your kids about. Because Jolie

8:49

pointed to my privates and I was like, what is that and

8:52

I was like, oh, it's Mommy's like who

8:54

ha, Like I just made up a name, and I was like, I probably

8:56

shouldn't name it. Actually give it the proper

8:58

name. That's what we were told to give the name. Ye, give

9:00

it the name, give it the yeah, and say

9:02

he's got a penis. I don't know if we can say

9:04

that on airror, but it's it's

9:07

just very interesting because you want kids to be

9:09

able to talk to you, but I think it's so awkward and uncomfortable

9:11

for us to have those conversations because I'm not ready to

9:13

talk to Joli about death. I want her to be I

9:16

don't want, which I think is okay.

9:19

It's hard to talk about strange you danger because and then

9:21

I said well why why, Well, somebody

9:23

met want people in this world who might want

9:25

to take you, and that why would

9:27

they want to take me? Well, I don't want to talk about

9:29

that part. You know, it's weird. It's a tough thing. It's just

9:31

starting to get real complicated and starting to kind

9:34

of stress me out a little bit because I don't want to do it the right

9:36

wrong way. I want them to be able to come and talk to

9:38

us, but then it's also scary, and

9:40

I just I'm like, I don't

9:42

like, I think I don't know

9:44

to do. Kind of what Mark was touching on is like

9:47

I feel pretty comfortable and having those conversations.

9:49

I honestly don't think I'll be that uncomfortable.

9:52

I think it's because it is just you

9:54

just say it like it is, because you don't

9:56

want to make something taboo, right, you don't want to

9:58

to create this like secret

10:01

thing around it, and then it all of a sudden

10:03

becomes that urge for people to do Oh, I want

10:05

to do this because it's taboo it's wrong, or and you know, want

10:07

them to learn about it from their friends at school, right, because

10:09

they're going to get inaccurate information. Absolutely.

10:12

I don't know why, but the death thing is just really freaking me

10:14

out a really hard time. It's

10:16

really hard, especially with today's the environment

10:19

of today's society, with everything going on, that's

10:21

terrifying to hear um and also our girlfriend.

10:24

I know, we just like got real negative. We'll

10:26

bring it back up, but I just it

10:28

scares me in today's society because a

10:30

very great school in Nashville, where

10:32

our kids are most likely going to go to elements

10:35

or high school. One

10:37

of the kids sent a picture because

10:39

my girlfriend called and told me this, send a picture

10:42

to a friend saying, look how many guns

10:44

I can fit into my backpack? Don't go to

10:46

school tomorrow. Oh my god.

10:49

And that isn't a one of the top

10:51

places school like their ranked

10:54

ten in Nashville or Brentwood,

10:57

And it's like, holy crap. That's

11:01

like even I'm like, oh god, I'm

11:03

like terrified sandal into school. Yeah, that's

11:05

one of the things. Actually, when this came up, Jan and I were

11:07

talking about it. We're like the were leaving part to get

11:09

out of l A County is you

11:12

know, the homeless, the chances

11:14

of things happening. Just playing the numbers game

11:16

and if you think about a terrorist attack, right, it's gonna

11:18

be l A, Chicago, New York. You know,

11:20

big cities, right, You think the

11:23

chances of a terrorist attack in Nashville are you

11:26

know, smaller than city, right,

11:28

God willing. But the school stuff

11:31

can touch anywhere anywhere,

11:34

how in freaking Brentwood,

11:37

Tennessee. Yeah, it just makes me

11:39

really sad. And then I'm like, is it the parents? Is the

11:41

kids just being funny? Because that's sort of ended

11:43

up being the kid just thought it was funny. That's

11:45

not whoever thinks that. If my

11:48

daughter thinks that's funny, I'm going to I'm

11:50

in a ground for the rest of her life. That's

11:52

not funny. So the parents

11:54

and teachers got involved and investigated the situation.

11:59

He was joking. I mean, it's

12:01

not like who thinks that's fine? Like we're talking to

12:03

our friend who told us this. We're like, we all agreed,

12:05

like that kid should get locked up for a

12:08

few days. Just just give

12:10

them scared straight, scar him straight, give him twenty

12:12

four hours in a cell. Like

12:15

look, dumbass, I don't care how

12:17

how funny you think this is, how old you are you do

12:19

this. You gotta pay a little bit something

12:21

like a little bit more than a slap on the wrist, Like this

12:23

isn't good. It's just it's just too sensitive. I

12:26

would expel the kid, yeah,

12:29

if I was the principal, because I'm

12:31

always Michel always makes fun of me, but I always say, like, in

12:33

your right brain, how did you think this was right? Like, we had

12:35

an issue with a few things in our house, so I always

12:37

like to know people's like thought process. So my thought process

12:39

for the kid is like, how did you think this is funny? Because

12:42

all these kids have lost their lives and I

12:45

don't know, I just get really upset about that. So

12:47

anyways, let's talk about happy, right thing, you're

12:49

all lighten it up. After the sex thing. So years ago

12:52

and my daughter was like two or three, she was in the bathroom,

12:54

in the bathtub and she mentioned her vagina,

12:56

and then she asked me a question about my vagina.

12:58

So I had to say to her, where's your vaginal?

13:01

I don't have a vagina, And her eyes got so

13:03

big. You don't have a vagina,

13:08

that explained her. That's

13:10

unbelievable. That really freaked

13:12

her out. All right, No,

13:16

I was just gonna say on that kind of topic. When

13:18

my brother was little, he was

13:20

probably fine. No, No, he was older

13:23

than that. I don't remember when it was, but it was when

13:25

he started to get curious about the sexual stuff,

13:27

and my parents gave him this book,

13:30

and it just kind of paints the

13:32

sex thing black and white, like this is what it is

13:34

from scientifical biological standpoint. But

13:37

then it also has a part in the book where it has

13:39

like slang terms for all of the sexual

13:41

parts. So my brothers, I don't say,

13:43

let's say he's eight years old. He's like walking around the

13:45

house saying all the slang woods,

13:48

slang word. It's just out loud. And my brother is

13:50

just one of those kids who's comfortable in all situations that I'm

13:52

really getting comfortable. So he's like a year eight years

13:54

old walking around saying all the slang stuff. My parents are

13:56

like trying not to die laughing. You

13:58

know here in this eight year olds all that stuff.

14:01

I think that's amazing. All

14:04

right, we have an awesome in studio guest

14:06

today, Chrissell Hartley. Before we talk to her,

14:08

though, um let's take a quick break, all right.

14:11

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14:13

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14:15

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15:53

So in studio we have the gorgeous

15:55

crystal heartly thank

15:59

you. You're like

16:01

genuinely beautiful, Like you're so pretty.

16:04

Stop, that's so nice. Thank you so much.

16:06

You're so pretty. You're obviously you're

16:12

pretty well. When

16:14

you just see someone from Instagram, I'm like, I'm

16:17

excited to me and you you look better in

16:19

person, if that's possible. Normally it's the opposite

16:21

face here.

16:24

So you were married to Justin Hartley,

16:27

Um, how long have you has married for? We'll

16:29

be married in October two years, but we'll

16:32

be together six six okay.

16:34

And then you guys met on a soap right, No,

16:36

actually you did soap? So I did,

16:38

okay, And I was working with one of his best

16:40

friends on Days of our Lives

16:43

um, and he his first job ever was on Passions

16:46

and so they were best friends fashion that

16:50

was my guilty pleasure. And then it just ended and I was like,

16:52

no, I know. So I

16:54

was working with his friend on Days of our Lives

16:57

and he asked him to kind of like,

16:59

what's the deal? You know, she's single and

17:02

so, um, the friend is actually a

17:04

terrible matchmaker because he didn't tell me that at first,

17:07

and I went on to date some really weird

17:09

um people and then I

17:12

later on asked him, Hey, what's the deal with your

17:14

friend Justin? He obviously seems single

17:16

and very handsome. Uh

17:20

And anyway, and that's when we figured

17:22

it all out. And so if I hadn't

17:24

asked, we'd give him a hard time, like right,

17:28

and how long was he divorced before, you guys? Two

17:30

years? Okay? So then Isabella was

17:33

she was nine when I came into her. She's

17:35

the sweetest, by the way, really, she's so

17:38

sweet. Hello, Justin. We

17:40

didn't move it together years ago. So

17:43

I'm at the and

17:46

that's where I met her daughter, his daughter, y'all's daughter

17:49

um, and she's really sweet. But I'm curious,

17:51

like how that was going in at that

17:53

age. So actually I

17:56

think, um, nine years old

17:58

was that. I don't know every everyone at the person's

18:00

experience, but I can only speak from mine. It was a

18:02

great age because she looked at

18:04

me and she liked my dress and she liked my

18:06

hair and she's pretty. Yeah. So

18:09

and I used to be a camp counselor and the little

18:11

girls were like that same age group perfect.

18:14

So it was kind of an easy fit in the

18:16

beginning. And then you know, it's

18:18

not. You know, you go through different things throughout

18:21

when they start to grow and those kind of things. But I

18:23

will say the beginning, I feel like I

18:25

got um, I got out a little easy

18:27

because she was just so enthralled

18:29

with you know, my purse or my shoes or my

18:31

hair. So I had an easy audience.

18:34

How has the co parenting been with the other

18:38

Yes, um, so you know,

18:40

I feel like she's looking and you know, you know,

18:42

well, I feel like probably a lot of your listeners

18:45

are gone through the same thing, and it's a

18:47

process. You know, it doesn't

18:49

it's not always um something

18:52

that's like the easiest thing, and then you learn and

18:54

you grow and everyone kind of like gets

18:56

their own boundaries and as time goes

18:58

on, then it, um it ends

19:00

up just being your normal and hopefully

19:03

that's something that you know you

19:05

wanted to be healthy for the child obviously,

19:07

so that's if that's everyone's goal,

19:10

then you've you've got it made. And

19:12

how is it when you when you are in that situation

19:14

kind of getting to the point where because obviously

19:17

you know, she's a part of your life and she's

19:19

your kid too at this point, right because you're married

19:21

to Justin, So at what point did

19:23

you start to feel where you could kind

19:25

of be a disciplinarian and kind of take

19:28

on that motherly but not stepping over boundaries,

19:30

Like I really feel like that's going to be difficult for

19:33

it is, uh, it is, And and

19:35

I feel like I connect with any other

19:38

um, you know, parents in my place because

19:40

it's really tough. You know, I have to

19:42

try and play like you know, sometimes I'm

19:44

her friend and she'll ask me questions

19:46

that she wouldn't feel comfortable asking her

19:48

parents. And so I've had to go from

19:51

not having kids to all of a sudden jumping

19:53

into the like, oh my god, I've answered

19:55

some of the most uncomfortable like coming

19:58

of age, you know, those

20:00

kind of questions where I'm like, Okay, how

20:02

do I explain to her what this

20:04

is? I don't know? Um if I'm allowed to see? All

20:08

right, I had to explain what

20:10

sixty nine was. We're

20:12

just talking about this. We just had this talk

20:14

in my house. That's so funny. Are you serious?

20:17

Yes? Because their friends were talking

20:19

about it at school and they came and asked, and we can't say,

20:21

I don't know, I have no idea. They go talk to somebody Else's

20:23

when your dad faces

20:25

that you have

20:27

to draw the diagram, see how the six and the nine.

20:30

It's one of those things. It's like, you're right, it's

20:32

she they're making jokes about it at school,

20:35

so what do you not? You have to tell her because

20:37

she's going to figure it out one way or the other. So

20:39

it's like, okay, what's the best way I could explain

20:42

that? How did you explain that? Oh? Lord, um,

20:44

I believe it, please, because

20:47

we have a three and a half and a five month old or

20:49

six month old. You guys had a wild so

20:52

like I need some bullet points, I um,

20:55

I said, I believe it was

20:57

you know, it's um when someone

21:00

to kiss someone's private air

21:04

time exactly. I

21:06

tried to make it as clinical as possible.

21:09

Why why would anyone want to do that?

21:11

Actually exactly what she said. Yeah, when

21:15

would you say? I said,

21:17

you got me? People are so weird. I don't

21:19

know. That's

21:22

actually a good response. And I also like my wife's

21:24

response when she explained to her what that was,

21:26

and don't ever have to do

21:28

that, just so you know, that's never something you have

21:30

to do, which I thought that was really good.

21:33

She explained it like that too. Yeah, exactly like

21:35

that. I

21:38

can't wait to watch you squirm when

21:40

you have to tell Joan prontation like that. Stuff

21:42

just really gets me. Is

21:45

just going to throw me into the room and locked the door

21:47

behind me. But can you talk to dad? You

21:52

got the boy, she's got the girl. That's that's how it

21:54

works. Really, Yes, you'll have to tell

21:56

Jolly, oh god,

21:59

I got two girls. It's got free Um

22:04

okay, so yeah, I just I

22:06

mean, that would just be really hard. I feel like I

22:08

would be the worst because when we

22:10

were thinking about divorcing, um,

22:16

but I was I had my

22:18

number one thing, and this is what my girlfriend especially

22:21

Catherine, I said this to a million times. I was like, I

22:23

don't want another woman raising my child. And

22:26

now, but that's the thing I And it's

22:28

nothing against the other woman,

22:30

because that's also

22:32

great for the child to have two strong

22:34

women too. But I just looked at it from such

22:37

a like, um territorial,

22:39

like she's mine. But like at the end of the day,

22:41

I'm like, what a blessing that Bella is to be able

22:43

to have two strong women in her life. And

22:45

I think that her true thought. And I think that's

22:47

why it is probably a lot tougher in the beginning, the

22:49

beginning, until you started it starts to become your

22:52

normal. But of course that's that's everyone's

22:54

natural instinct. And I think, you know, coming

22:56

into that position and knowing that

22:58

and kind of you know, and also I'm sure it's

23:00

difficult for it's you know, it's just something

23:02

that you slowly grow and adapt and then

23:04

hopefully and luckily that's where we are now, where

23:06

everything is we try

23:08

and all work together, and you know, it's it's

23:11

nice to have the extra hands and the extra help and

23:13

somebody. Now it's kind of a bonus where

23:15

it's like you know, um, you just have more

23:18

people involved, and more people that love her, and more

23:20

people that are trying to make sure she grows up

23:22

to be a wonderful human beings. So it actually

23:24

is a positive. But of course in the beginning,

23:27

I'm sure many people don't feel that way, and

23:29

that is totally understandable. Where does Billa

23:31

call you? Okay?

23:34

Because that would be like something I'd like, you cannot

23:37

call something I can see at that at that age

23:39

and nine years old, I wouldn't assume

23:41

that they that she would call you mom or ever necessarily

23:43

call you mom. But if it was in jan in

23:46

that situation, you know, back when we talked about divorce,

23:51

um, you know, if it's an infant, it's

23:53

like, how do they not call? Because

23:56

that's person's technically you know, from the

23:58

ground up, don't right, That's what I'm saying, hard than

24:00

not call someone who's raising you

24:02

a mom or dad? From

24:05

that age joining when I did again

24:07

she was nine, I kind of took the role

24:09

of like her her friend and like, so

24:12

there are where like

24:15

if there needs to be disciplined, that happens

24:17

a lot of times. I'll just you know, debrief

24:20

her dad when he gets home and kind

24:22

of like talk to him because I just feel

24:24

like I don't know, it's I'm

24:27

probably not I don't know. Probably

24:29

a lot of other people do better than me. I tiptoe

24:31

around things because I just don't want to be um

24:34

in a position where I am stepping

24:36

on toes or whatever. So maybe I veer

24:38

too far on the other side of that, but I

24:41

think it's better safe than than

24:43

you know, wishing you hadn't done or said something

24:46

I don't know. So before we talk about your Netflix

24:48

series, I heard you have a really cute story

24:50

about your name. Oh oh

24:52

god. Um, well, I'll

24:54

let you decide it's cute or

24:56

ridiculous. But um in a nutshell.

24:59

So my mother or went into

25:01

labor um when she was getting her car worked

25:03

out. Remember when the shell station saw it were also

25:05

a mechanic shop. Yes, okay, So

25:07

she was getting her car worked on, and

25:10

all of a sudden she goes into labor and the guy

25:12

they're helping her, the mechanic he was holding

25:14

her hand and calming her down. He called the ambulance.

25:16

So I was not born in a shell

25:19

station. I just have to clarify.

25:21

That's kind of what I end up seeing on the internet.

25:24

That did not happen, but she wanted

25:26

to name me after him because he was so lovely

25:28

and his name was Chris. Stop

25:30

it Chris. His

25:32

name is Chris amazing,

25:35

And a lot of people are like, well, there's Christina.

25:37

There's a lot of other Chris names. Um.

25:40

But um, if you know any of my other sisters,

25:42

they have very unique names. I have

25:44

a Shonda, Tabitha, Carissa, Sabrina.

25:46

So, um, Christina would not have worked

25:48

in our family, so she went with Krishell. That's

25:51

fantastic. It's a great story.

25:54

So you actually watched the docuseries.

25:57

No, I haven't yet, but let

25:59

it on your cue. Yeah. I put on my on my list

26:01

to watch because I love like a million

26:03

dollar listing in l A and New York. I love that kind

26:05

of stuff, and so I haven't watched it yet, but I'm

26:08

excited to. It's got some great property. Tell

26:10

us a little bit about it, so I

26:12

feel like it it will appeal to you. Called

26:14

again, it's called Selling Sunset and

26:17

um, it's a very binge

26:19

worthy show on Netflix and it basically

26:21

is million dollar Listing

26:24

meets Laguna Beach or the Hills. I don't

26:26

know if you've seen either of them the drama. So

26:28

are there other than beautiful real

26:30

estate agents? Yes, they're gorgeous,

26:33

and unfortunately there is some drama. So

26:35

they were such a tight knit group working together

26:37

for a really long time, and I joined as a new beat.

26:40

Your hated, right, I got

26:42

a little hazing. I'm not gonna lie. Yes,

26:45

um, so you kind of watched me, uh

26:48

go through the process of kind of falling on my face

26:50

but then kind of figuring it out and learning

26:52

as I go. And you also get

26:54

to see these amazing properties. It's kind of

26:56

a bird's eye view into um, this

26:59

luxury market that not everybody would get

27:01

to see, but on these shows, you know some. I

27:03

think that's why they're so popular, because people really want

27:05

to see that, because

27:08

who's going to go spend forty million dollars

27:10

on a house? Very very very few

27:12

people. However, we all want to see what it

27:14

looks like, like, oh yeah, we zillo it all the time to

27:16

be there's a

27:18

night skating rink in there. I always

27:20

think, I'm like, the taxes alone on a house

27:23

like that. I always I'm like, what do these people

27:25

do exactly? You have

27:27

to be like assaultant. So those are the houses that you're

27:29

selling our forty million dollar houses. Well, okay,

27:31

the company, because I was like saying, girl,

27:34

um, I wish if anyone's listening and wants

27:37

to buy. When I there is one on the market, I'm

27:39

having to show it to you

27:42

qualified by

27:45

Yeah. And so I I live in the valley,

27:47

and I feel like I tend to work

27:49

a little more in the valley, but I also you

27:52

know, if you have your license, you can work wherever. It's

27:54

just that that is the area I'm a little more passionate

27:56

about. And I know all about the school districts,

27:58

and um, you can get the best

28:00

cup of this in the best bowl of that. So um,

28:03

I tend to have more clients in the in the valley,

28:06

but mine are the highest thing I've sold

28:08

so far as five million, which i'd amazing,

28:10

that's fantastic. But at my company,

28:13

yeah, it goes all the way up to like fifty

28:15

millions, so it's great. So I'm selling Sunset.

28:17

Do is justin a part of it at all? Or is he like

28:19

I don't want to be part? Like what?

28:21

What? Like? How much do they show your outside lives?

28:24

So some of the girls do show

28:26

their outside lives, but At

28:28

first it was a conflict because he you know, he's under

28:30

contract with Fox and so we were trying to work

28:33

that out, and then it kind of became once

28:35

the show started filming, there was drama

28:37

with I didn't really I thought I was doing a real

28:40

estate show in the beginning. I didn't know that this was

28:42

going to have drama. So by the

28:44

time we started flushing out what his

28:46

availability would be if he you

28:49

know, got it cleared, I realized

28:51

she knew what. Maybe it's best that we keep

28:53

these two things separate because I really

28:56

like my personal life. I'm so protective over

28:58

it, and you know, I mean, marriage

29:00

is hard enough on its own. I don't need an added

29:02

force adding any kind of,

29:05

um, you know, outward drama

29:07

at all. So, UM, I feel like it. That's

29:09

kind of what happened. So he, you know, there's like an

29:11

intro and intros. You know who I'm married to.

29:13

It's not a secret at all, and

29:16

I talk about him, you know, in my interviews

29:18

and stuff. But um, he's not featured

29:20

on the show. Um,

29:22

so when did you stop acting or are you still acting?

29:24

I'm still recurring on Days of our Lives right now,

29:27

And um, and I actually have a movie

29:30

coming out on Netflix June

29:32

called staged Killer. Amazing.

29:35

Yeah, um, so you know what, it just

29:37

kind of comes and goes, and is

29:40

there one that you're Are you more passionate in the real

29:42

estate or are you like, where's your where's

29:44

your focus? So, I

29:47

mean, I always grew up wanting to be an actor, so

29:49

I'm more passionate doing acting. But what happens

29:51

is you can't really pick and choose when you work,

29:54

and so I wanted something else. So

29:56

I'm not gonna lie and say I'm as passionate

29:59

about real estate. It I've come to

30:01

really love it. It's kind of one of those things that like

30:03

grew on me and now I really enjoy

30:05

it. At first, it was like, you know, you're taking all these

30:07

tests and it's people are wasting your

30:09

time, and it's kind of a

30:11

kind of a headache. And now as I'm in

30:14

entrenched in the process, and now I really have

30:17

people that I've worked with that I've loved, and these

30:20

amazing moments that you get to hand somebody

30:22

their first keys, their first home. It's pretty

30:24

important and special. So now I love it.

30:26

I think. Um, I mean,

30:28

I definitely can relate because you know, obviously

30:32

my main goal is I want to be on a you

30:34

know, TV show, get back on the show, because I was

30:36

on a show for a couple of years and that's

30:39

the steady income that I want. But unfortunately,

30:41

like you said, we can't pick and choose and

30:44

you have to we have to support our family.

30:46

And it's there's certain things

30:48

that I'm doing that make the money, but that's

30:50

not what I'm actually passionate

30:52

in doing. But you find the passion in it

30:54

exactly. So that's where it's like

30:57

you found your passion with the real estate, and both

30:59

things can be okay. That's why I like the things I'm

31:01

doing. The side, I'm like, yes, do I love

31:03

lovedness, No, But I'm loving doing

31:06

it because I'm finding I have to find the passion

31:08

in it because I want to be able to enjoy everything

31:10

that And it empowers you when you can, you know,

31:12

be in charge of when you work and when you don't.

31:14

As an actor, you're kind of a slave too, and

31:17

it kind of can take a hit to your

31:19

self confidence if you keep not booking

31:21

things. You know, and so I just feel like it empowers you

31:23

when you have a whole another thing and then you sometimes

31:26

end up booking more because you're like, I don't need this job and'd

31:28

be great if I got it, but I don't need to pay my

31:30

light bill tomorrow. So right with

31:33

the busy schedules, I'm sure you and Justin have separately.

31:35

What do you guys do to kind of come back together and

31:37

reconnect with you know, to drown

31:39

out all the noise. Yeah, Actually he

31:42

was just in Canada shooting

31:44

a movie for a month, so that was a little tough. I

31:46

went up there for or for a week, um,

31:49

and then when he got back, it was one of those things

31:51

where I feel like you just

31:53

kind of have to seclude

31:55

yourself a little bit, and even if you maybe

31:57

go out or maybe don't, but just like

32:00

to reconnect. So it sounds kind

32:02

of cheesy, you're kind of lame, But when you're away

32:04

that long, um, you don't want it to

32:06

feel normal, you know. So I wanted

32:09

as soon as we got back together to get back to

32:11

kind of the way that it felt,

32:13

where it's like it's not normal to sleep outside

32:15

of the same bed for that long.

32:18

So let's like, you know, do

32:20

we have to take that meeting in the morning. Let's push it back,

32:22

like let's stay in. But I don't know, little things

32:24

like that where I feel like we just kind of reconnect, like

32:26

making intentional time. That's a big thing Janna

32:28

and I talked about, is like making intentional time

32:30

for each other, not coming back together and going

32:32

about your regular day routine. It's like, let's intend

32:35

to do this together and reconnect. So, um,

32:39

obviously, you know you're

32:41

so happy for your husband. Has

32:44

there ever been that jealousy underneath or

32:46

that frustration? No,

32:49

I I have to say, it's not like

32:51

we ever are going out for the same parts or

32:53

any you know. Um, but I'm

32:55

so genuinely happy for him because when I met

32:58

him, he was on revenge and to

33:00

see him then, you know, kind of assent

33:03

to this a list actor. And

33:06

of course he'd always worked before. I

33:08

always felt bad for him because he was always the

33:10

lead of a like a pilot, but then the pilot didn'et

33:12

picked up or it only ran once. I'm like, God, I'm like, he's

33:14

such a good actor, he's had such a good look, and so it never

33:16

really added up to me. So it was it was really cool

33:18

from an outsider to see him go.

33:21

I think, and again, I can only speak for myself,

33:23

but I think if you have a I think healthy

33:26

competition in a playful way is a good thing. But

33:28

if you're actually competitive with your partner,

33:30

I think that's detrimental. I

33:33

support him and I want him to rule the world if

33:35

he wants to rule the world. There are times where he has offers.

33:38

It's like, if you want to do

33:40

that, I will. I will get behind you

33:42

one thousand percent. But if you're not going to be happy doing

33:44

that, who cares? You don't need any more of whatever.

33:47

Do what if you want to. And I feel like

33:49

he does the same for me, so you know,

33:51

I have to say it's definitely just

33:53

one of those things where we're not in competition

33:55

with each other. The only times we compete against each

33:57

other is like when it's for fun of what we'll get, Like you

34:00

can get us in a game night, then we'll

34:02

see you there. Say, can we get into

34:04

the biggest arguments at game nights because we get so into

34:06

it? Yeah, we're probably two into

34:08

it because then we leave getting actually mad at each other

34:11

and take it too personally. New Year's last year,

34:13

Yeah, that was no good. I've always been curious

34:15

about that when people are in the same kind of

34:17

profession like you and Justin and whether

34:20

Jane and past relationships with people in music

34:22

and enacting, how

34:24

that relationship is with being competitive. Do

34:26

you think there's I'm asking both of you guys, do

34:29

you think there's couples out there that are like that? Like, just

34:31

for an example, Ryan Gosson

34:33

and even Mendez, I feel like ever since they've been together, like

34:35

even Mendez hasn't really done anything. Do you think

34:37

that's a testament to them

34:40

a green like, hey, you take a back seat, let me do my

34:42

thing, or I'm just curious from y'all. Y'all

34:44

are professionals in this world and around

34:46

those kind of people. Do you think that takes place?

34:49

I mean, I'm sure it does. I know what jenn

34:51

and Ben did was like she would take a role, he

34:53

would take a role. It's kind of what I've heard, like everyone kind

34:55

of goes. I mean, even like our friends that we just met, like

34:58

someone's having a show. It's like, all right, now you

35:00

need to take the next whatever time off.

35:03

But I will say I was when

35:05

I was in the relationship, I was super

35:08

jealous, But it was only because from my insecurities,

35:11

because I had insecurities because I'm like, well, I

35:13

want to be doing that, I want to be up on that state.

35:15

I like, why why don't I have that crowd

35:17

like? And then so then I but that was all my insecurities

35:19

feeding into which ended up ruining the relationship

35:22

because I was so insecure and

35:24

I think, and I think that's that's part of it, where

35:27

it's like I can see that. But

35:29

luckily because when I was in a bad place and

35:31

I wasn't working, and that's actually when I decided

35:33

to get my real estate license because I had to. You know,

35:35

I'm not one of those people that just wants somebody

35:38

to pay for me. Like I take a lot of

35:40

pride in always having been, you know, a

35:42

self made person and paying and supporting

35:45

myself and my family because you came from homeless

35:47

background, I did, so, so

35:49

yeah, what what happened? Well, And

35:52

just basically just to to say,

35:54

in that scenario, instead of

35:56

being jealous, I was so thankful that

35:59

he was able to be there for me when I

36:01

was in a place where I had never been

36:03

able to count on. You know, my family,

36:06

they come from nothing, so I couldn't ever have

36:08

any help financially from him, So to have

36:10

him be able to financially like be there

36:12

for me while I went and got my license, so that it

36:15

was the opposite of that. I was just so grateful

36:17

that he did that as opposed to the competition

36:20

part of it. And then as far

36:22

as my family goes, they you know, we're

36:24

from we were homeless several stints

36:26

in our life, and you know,

36:28

it's just kind of something that we live.

36:31

I lied about for so long because you

36:33

know, you're embarrassed, and I was a kid in school

36:35

and I missed a grade um

36:37

and so anyway, uh, now

36:40

to be able to have a platform, and it's covered

36:42

on the show in a beautiful way, I think,

36:44

and now I'm able to bring

36:47

spotlight to it and talk about it and help others.

36:49

I have to you know, uh, I

36:51

think you have to kind of initially how

36:54

to get over myself and and the embarrassment. And

36:56

now I'm not embarrassed anymore. It's something that you

36:58

know, it happens, and it happens to a lot of people. And

37:00

I see these people all the time where

37:02

it's like, you know, I think people have especially

37:04

living in a this luxury l a type

37:07

of market that I work in, people have a

37:09

predisposition. Two

37:13

have judgment about people that are homeless,

37:15

and UM, you know, I

37:18

just feel like coming from a family that has kind

37:20

of dealt with I've never said this before,

37:22

but a family that has dealt with, um,

37:25

not just homelessness, but also addiction

37:27

and different things like that. UM.

37:30

I sometimes tiptoe about what I say because

37:32

you know, it's not just me involved in this story, but

37:34

there were a lot of factors. Um,

37:36

you know, so we basically

37:39

had to fend for ourselves for a certain

37:41

sense of our childhood. And now

37:44

I I UM, I

37:46

really appreciate and love that

37:48

they always said it felt like

37:51

the best they could with the means that they had. My parents

37:53

aren't educated. UM, you

37:55

know, my dad unfortunately just past but he

37:57

you know, he couldn't read. And so

38:00

just like you know, there were just so many there's so many people

38:02

born into these poverty type situations

38:05

and everything is stacked against

38:07

you to get out of it. I mean, you don't so

38:10

any kind of those programs. I'm so

38:12

passionate about the programs that are

38:14

helping people that. You know. I just

38:16

feel like sometimes some people really have everything

38:19

at their feet. They're judging people that don't.

38:21

And it's like, you know, if the

38:23

the amount of effort that it takes to get

38:26

from that spot where you have no help

38:29

and to pull yourself out of it, I just, um,

38:31

I want to help all those people that I can,

38:33

because it's you have no idea

38:36

how much it it

38:38

helps their lives to just kind of give

38:40

them a hand as opposed to,

38:43

you know, just blowing them off and thinking

38:46

that, you know, get it together. I

38:49

don't know if I spoke right. That

38:52

was brilliant. I think to your point, it's

38:54

sometimes it's unfortunately out of their control,

38:57

right, Like it's easy to say, hey, get your together.

38:59

World probably fell apart not

39:01

because of them, but because of the environment that they're brought

39:03

into. And that's you can't blame somebody

39:05

for that, Like you're saying, it's so crudous to you for

39:07

being as strong as you are to pour yourself

39:10

out of that and to be successful, you

39:12

know, everything that you're doing, and everyone

39:14

go to upward bound house dot org

39:17

to help give back. Yeah,

39:19

it's actually, if I can just say real quick, it's a it's

39:22

what I love about them. They don't just give you a place

39:24

to stay. They for a whole year that you're there.

39:26

They give you classes, they give

39:29

you child care while you go interview, they

39:31

give you interview clothes, they give you an

39:33

apartment to stay in, and so they're, um,

39:35

not just here's a here's a bed, you

39:37

know. So that's why I those

39:40

are the kind of places that will change someone's life.

39:42

Yeah, they're trying to help and to grow. I

39:44

think there are are only you

39:46

know how we've because we've talked about homeless

39:48

and honestly not in a

39:51

a respectful way at times, but we had

39:53

someone we tried to do this giving back challenge

39:56

and we gave a bunch of

39:58

food to a homeless person. He's like, oh no, I

40:00

don't eat that stuff, And for us, we're like,

40:02

well, why wouldn't they? You know? But it's so it's it was

40:04

that was kind of a tricky situation

40:06

for us because we're like, we're trying to give back

40:08

and then they're being picky about I don't know, right,

40:11

And I've had that happened before. You know, you you go

40:13

to give like what you think is like amazing, and then

40:16

I've actually done the same thing. I think

40:18

the best thing if you want to give, um,

40:20

is to find these kind of organizations. And

40:22

there's Food on Foot, there's upper Bound

40:25

House, there's My Friends Place. I work with all three of

40:27

those places that are all about rehabilitating

40:30

and um because those people really want

40:32

they're willing to they want to change

40:34

or not to change, but they want to help and they

40:37

need the help. Yeah, and there's ways to work the program

40:39

where if you really use

40:41

what they provide you the

40:43

I think some of one of them has a ninety

40:46

five percent success rate upper Bound House

40:48

of once you go into their facility

40:51

for the year that you're there, um success

40:54

rate of not being homeless again. So it's

40:56

really amazing. Do they do any of

40:58

these programs like upper Bound House, are the other ones

41:00

that you mentioned? Do they

41:03

focus on any kind of addiction addiction

41:05

twelve step UM concept too?

41:07

Because this is might be a stereotype

41:09

or whatever, but from your experience

41:12

and working with these programs, are there a lot

41:14

of people that are addicts that may not know that

41:16

come into this and want to get help. But then

41:19

you know people the professionals they are realizing they

41:21

have addictive tendencies or whatever is their correlation

41:23

there. That's a great question. My Friends Place and

41:26

Food on Foot both UM, accept

41:28

people in that are whatever. However

41:30

you come in is how you come in, and

41:33

they will help you no matter what, and they will help

41:35

you really truly. These people are so passionate

41:37

their volunteers and they're so amazing. They deserve

41:40

all the praise because they're in there every single day

41:42

volunteering and they are providing

41:45

them with resources to really change their

41:47

life if they want it. Upward Bound

41:49

houses a little different, um, you know, because

41:51

they house children as well, so I think you have

41:53

to be really careful past drug tests.

41:56

So I work with um both kinds,

41:58

one that does not accept them and one that

42:00

does, but um, they're both important,

42:02

you know, and obviously makes sense they're accepting small children,

42:05

so you have to. Yeah.

42:08

Wow, Well you're just like inspiring all

42:11

around. You're not only beautiful, but you're smart and

42:13

you're encouraging and we just can't

42:15

thank you enough for coming on the show. Uh

42:17

watch Selling Sunset. It's a docuseries

42:19

for Netflix, and then UM, please give

42:22

you know, give some more information, especially you go visit

42:24

upward Bound House dot org. Thank

42:27

you seriously so much. Thank

42:30

you all

42:34

right, babe, So you went to college, Um

42:37

you have, yes, you did, and

42:40

you have student loans, don't you? Or you did? I

42:42

did at one, so you definitely

42:44

needed so far back in the day because did you know that millennials

42:47

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42:49

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f I dot com slash

43:28

Janna. So now the students don't have to like stress

43:31

as much, you know, because I'm honestly worried

43:33

about when Julian and Jays go to college.

43:36

In your pockets. I love it so

43:39

Fie. She's

43:41

so sweet. She's very genuine,

43:44

m extremely genuine, and I just

43:46

I love I love her journeyman can tell

43:48

like she's a hustler and I appreciate

43:50

that instead kind of wallowing or being like,

43:52

oh, you know, just

43:55

the spouse up, like she's making a name for herself, and I

43:57

just she's already had the name, but still

43:59

like she's she's not stopping, and I really appreciate

44:01

that. Driving. I think that no matter

44:04

who she's married to, whether it's

44:06

Justin or nobody, she

44:08

wouldn't change. Like she just has

44:10

that passion and she has that grind to do things that

44:12

she wants to do and nothing's

44:15

going to change that. Yeah, you can definitely just get

44:17

you get that from her vibe and her personality is

44:19

awesome. Yeah, I agree. I just I really like

44:21

everything about her. So we should do

44:23

a double date. Sure, Hey,

44:26

Mark, do you any emails for us? Well? This one is particularly

44:28

pertinent death thought. This is from Holly

44:31

pertinent. I don't know that words

44:33

to me. I've been with my

44:35

husband for ten years now. We started struggling

44:37

with our marriage and divorce was a daily topic. I

44:39

started a new job and met a man there. If

44:42

time went on, we grew closer and closer, to the

44:44

point that I told him I loved him and we could start life

44:46

together. I just needed to leave my husband, but

44:48

I didn't have sex with him. I didn't kiss this man because

44:51

my heart I knew it was wrong. One night, my

44:53

husband recorded me having a conversation with this

44:55

other man. I confessed and told him everything

44:57

I did contact the other guy one left time to tell

44:59

him it was over. Since then, my husband

45:02

has been by my side, but I am still living in the mess

45:04

that I made. He still holds it over my head,

45:06

has no faith or trust in me, and it's been going on four

45:08

years and a child later. I'll walk

45:10

on eggshells because I want to show him that I love

45:13

him, and yes, I want this marriage, but it doesn't seem

45:15

enough. So what could I possibly do

45:17

more than I've already tried to get him to forgive

45:19

and forget this kind of thing. I want

45:22

him to trust me and love me the way he did ten years

45:24

ago. It's

45:27

that's hard. I mean, it's a great amount. And

45:30

thank you for sharing all that, Holly. I that's

45:33

that's a really hard one because you

45:36

can't put a time

45:39

limit on someone's

45:42

How would I say that someone's process of

45:44

grieving. So I know for

45:46

us, you know there's

45:50

still times that's

45:55

just sorrd because you don't want to put a problem, you don't

45:57

want to pay a time because in ten years, like just let me

45:59

talk to Jason and and Shelley about

46:01

it. They're like, we're still talking about it's

46:03

fifteen minutes, fifteen years.

46:06

This will be a part of their life no matter what.

46:09

Now do you think it sounds like maybe

46:11

he's not well, I'm just gonna

46:13

I'm curious. Do you think the emotional aspect

46:15

cuts deeper than the physical because

46:18

she didn't According to her, she didn't do anything

46:20

physical with him, but she told him that she loved

46:22

him and talked about starting a life together.

46:26

I think, again, it just depends I wouldn't. Well, I'm

46:28

asking you if I did that, what would be harder me?

46:30

Just having physical relations or an emotional relation

46:34

from a guy standpoint, I

46:38

mean, obviously needs one of them are great,

46:41

But I think the physical thing,

46:45

with the physical there's I feel like

46:48

there's fixable issues because

46:50

it was probably like a

46:52

a time frame or something specific

46:55

that caused the person to go outside the marriage

46:57

with the with the emotional I

47:01

I worry about can

47:03

this ever be repaired? Like will

47:06

you ever love me because you fell for another man?

47:08

Like you told another person you love them

47:11

and you wanted to start a life with them. But maybe she

47:13

truly didn't. I

47:15

know, I've said I love you to people and I didn't

47:17

really love them. I just was needing a I

47:20

was just needing that emotional connection,

47:24

you know what I mean. So, but

47:27

again, that's hard for her husband to unsee that, and

47:30

I get that, but I

47:34

just you know, you guys obviously have another kids,

47:36

bringing other kids into the world. So

47:38

I think it's one of those things where you

47:40

know, you just you can't

47:43

put the time on it. But also

47:46

there's got to be some growth on his side too to

47:48

try to Yeah, and the fact that she

47:50

even says the way she says that he still holds

47:53

it over my head. Yeah, so that's

47:55

something where it's like, that's not that's different than

47:57

expressing all right, hey, honey,

47:59

you want to go out. Your friend is okay, but here's my fears

48:02

because of what happened. That's the

48:04

way. Yeah, it's saying hold it over my head it's

48:06

like, no, I don't want you to do that. Because I don't, you're

48:08

probably gonna do this again four years

48:10

and a child later. You

48:12

know, I'm sure she's just not based on

48:15

that. She's trying to show. I make up

48:17

that she's showing that she loves him and once her life with

48:19

her husband, well she's still

48:21

there. Yeah right, I'm saying,

48:23

like through her actions, Mark, what do you think? Well,

48:26

obviously, um,

48:28

I mean, look, she broke his heart. If I'm putting

48:30

myself in his position, it's it's it's just

48:33

it's just profound sadness. It's a heartbreak,

48:36

it's it's a betrayal, It's

48:38

why wasn't I enough? It's all that stuff. But

48:40

I don't know that it gives him the right to be a dick to you remember

48:43

the rest of your life you have to. That's that's

48:45

the part where he has to start, you know. Yeah,

48:48

I think I think I don't know if you guys are in therapy,

48:50

but I know that you guys have gotten great

48:52

results from that sort of thing, and I think that will help

48:54

him get over those emotions of being

48:58

so jerky about it. He doesn't have to do that

49:00

anymore, and maybe that's how you guys get out together.

49:02

But like you guys said, it's just time. Time

49:04

is gonna He's not going anywhere, and

49:07

that's great. It's great that he's not going anywhere.

49:09

It's not great that he's got this. He's still holding

49:11

it over your head, which could be enticing

49:13

him to not go anywhere because he feels like he has

49:15

this power in control of the relationship.

49:18

Right and so you know, if

49:20

they're not going to therapy number one, they definitely should.

49:22

And he's probably hasn't owned

49:24

anything that he's done where maybe

49:27

he had something to do with driving her away,

49:29

but he's still holding onto it. Again,

49:32

just based off the vernacular she uses, it

49:34

doesn't seem like he was like, well, what what could I have done

49:36

to to not push her away? It doesn't

49:38

seem like he's doing that at all, which he needs

49:41

to write because divorce was a daily topic

49:43

before this happened, right, so obviously there's issues.

49:46

So so it just seems like he's still finger pointing

49:49

as opposed to being like, is there something I could have done?

49:51

Like you know you for you it it took you a while,

49:53

it took you, you know some time, but you

49:56

got to the place eventually where it's like, well,

49:58

what can I do different? Yeah,

50:02

and it takes time. But four years down in this place

50:04

now, not not before. No, I'm

50:06

not saying like immediately after. It takes some

50:08

time, but four years down the road. Again,

50:10

everyone's different, everyone's timeline is different.

50:12

But I'd like to think that they should

50:14

be in a place or hopefully he'd

50:16

be in a place to start to look at himself.

50:19

Can I mention something that kind of came

50:21

up at the podcast tour that kind of has still stuck

50:23

with me, that's bothered me a little bit about the kind

50:25

of this topic. I'm kind of interested

50:27

to see Mark's point of view. Two. So I had

50:29

asked our guests

50:31

and then I kind of asked Michaels of what would be your marriage

50:34

deal breaker? And

50:36

he had said if I cheated

50:38

on him? And so after

50:41

everything we've been through, after

50:43

everything we've been through, if you cheat on me,

50:45

And I'm I'm thinking to myself, I

50:47

get that because we've done so much work, but

50:49

I but still it

50:54

feels so one sided to

50:57

me that after me sticking

50:59

through, because I out we did a lot of work

51:01

and I know Grant and we've done so much work now

51:03

post you know, getting married

51:05

and stuff. But it's

51:08

that you would really truly leave me

51:10

if I cheated on you, And that feels so

51:13

shallow to me In a way, I

51:16

understand why it would, and I understand

51:19

why anyone male or female, if they're

51:21

in your position. Why if the other person said, that's like really,

51:23

like what the f Like? I took you back? I was

51:25

willing to work at this. Why would

51:27

that be a deal breaker for me. It's not

51:29

about the act. It's about if

51:33

because we we value our communication, we value

51:36

therapy and discussing on what's going on in our

51:38

life. If we got to that point where

51:40

you weren't talking about things that were wrong, and

51:42

you got to a point where you just stuffed it all down

51:45

and acted out outside of our

51:47

marriage, then I'll be like, what

51:49

have we been doing all this work for? Like?

51:51

Then then that means you weren't doing the work

51:53

and coming to me and bringing up issues that you have. Maybe

51:56

I had my own issues and wouldn't you

51:58

wouldn't stick. I didn't know that you have your issues

52:00

before we got married, you know, And I'm

52:03

just playing devil's advocate and it I

52:05

don't understand that that really bothers

52:07

me that that would be your

52:10

thing. I'm like, man, after everything I've

52:12

stuck out with you, and if

52:14

I have my moment where sometimes

52:17

because everything we're going through is a lot, and

52:19

maybe that is my way of

52:21

of having my slip.

52:25

I'm not saying it's right, but like after

52:27

you know, we might get into a big argument and you might

52:30

have a medium relapse or

52:32

something maybe not

52:34

even physical, but and if I

52:37

go out and like, I'm like, you're gonna leave me because of

52:39

that? Like that for it just really

52:41

like bothers me. It's just like we talked about a

52:43

lot on this, right, you don't know what you're doing the situation

52:45

until you're in it. All I'm saying is

52:48

because of all the work and all

52:50

the time and all the therapy we have put into

52:52

this just abrupts

52:55

me, and which I understand. I understand

52:57

why I would I do. I empathize with

52:59

that because I'm like, I can I can still

53:02

grow it because again, everything that we've been through,

53:06

I could foresee maybe one

53:09

day not saying I would ever cheat on you,

53:11

but having being so like you

53:13

know what effort right

53:16

again because of all the things that we do to prevent

53:18

those things, but what if we didn't? What if?

53:20

Like, but I'm

53:22

just saying that to

53:25

me just feels Mark, do you have any insight

53:27

on that? Because you're just kind of staring at really

53:29

trying to hang back on it. I

53:32

do think it's still to think that there would never be any more problems

53:34

because you're you're putting in this work, which is great,

53:36

and you're working together on this, They're still going to be

53:38

problems along the way. I still might be

53:41

holding resentment to you, and

53:43

I still have resentment, but in some day, one

53:45

day that might flare up more and

53:48

I might be weak just like you've

53:50

been weak, and but yet to know that my partner

53:52

after all this stuff would leave me from

53:54

a weak moment like that just

53:56

feels so like, Man, what is

53:58

this then? But you wouldn't

54:00

fight through with me to get back to a good

54:02

place again, because

54:05

I honestly will say, I

54:07

mean, it's just that's

54:09

just I don't know. I think he would. Honestly, I

54:12

think he'd leave. I don't do I

54:14

think he would because the fact that he even said that,

54:16

because he had to come up with no.

54:20

But I'll

54:24

tell you, I'll tell you This would have been my answer

54:26

because I wouldn't have said if you cheated on me again. It

54:29

would be if you if

54:31

you continuously were defensive or

54:33

or or so I

54:35

can live in that kind of household, that

54:38

would be my marriage dealbreaker, not if

54:40

he cheats again. So that's what those people

54:43

all, right, But

54:47

I mean, where again, what else would mind be? Oh

54:50

gosh, I could I could shame I

54:53

could, you know, but

54:55

we're past that. We're not, as I'm saying,

54:57

like, there might be days that I and

54:59

you still have those moments, but it's not like it

55:02

was at the beginning. If you still shame me now

55:04

like you used to, yes, and I even

55:06

told and I even contemplated that stuff then

55:09

where I was like, I don't know if I can stay in this because of that.

55:12

But we got past that. So you said, like

55:14

from this point moving forward, if

55:16

you just randomly started shame

55:18

me and me all the time like you used to,

55:21

then yes, but that's not what's happening. M

55:24

So the only thing I could I could come

55:27

up with is if you did that, it would just be

55:29

really hard after all of the work that we've done.

55:31

That's like now, if I if I

55:33

relapsed physically, but you'll say,

55:35

well, it's an addiction. I've

55:38

never used it as an excuse, but you have

55:40

you like, you know, I'm an attic. This is a possibility,

55:43

he said, right, because I can never say never. Right.

55:45

But you're saying, but in therapy, you would say like, well,

55:48

I said, you know, but I wouldn't

55:50

expect you. But I wouldn't. I wouldn't write that off and expect

55:52

you to be Okay, I wouldn't,

55:55

you know what I mean. So, but I'm saying if

55:57

if if I did that, you're

56:01

telling me that you wouldn't have a really hard

56:03

time staining. It wouldn't be

56:05

the reason I left. I

56:08

didn't ask that. I

56:11

asked that. I didn't ask that. I said, would you

56:13

have a really hard time staining? Of

56:15

course I would, But that wouldn't be

56:17

because of why, because of all the work that we've done.

56:20

Well, no, because of the principle. Yeah, but

56:22

it's you know, but that's not what But

56:25

that's not my deal breaker. But

56:28

you would still be a really hard It would

56:30

be really hard for you determine whether they're stay or not. That

56:33

doesn't that's not my deal breaker though, And that's okay. We can

56:35

have different ones. It's just I'm just having I wouldn't.

56:37

I'm trying to put you in the same position where but

56:40

I would not. That would not be my deal breaker. You're

56:42

trying to put me and say, I understand it'd be hard

56:44

decision, but it wouldn't be my deal breaker. And that's

56:46

what you said, your deal breaker would be. Okay,

56:48

let me rephrase that, it would

56:50

be a really hard decision. Okay,

56:54

all right, we have to go pick up her daughter. This has

56:56

been a really good episode. It

57:00

on the high note. Thanks for email, Holly.

57:02

Yeah, thanks Ally a

57:04

lot. We're

57:07

going to be like out oh

57:10

yeah, yeah,