0:08

What's our lives get banned? Happy Wednesday

0:10

everybody! I hope you're having a great

0:12

week but per usual it is about

0:14

to get so much better because we

0:16

have one of my favorites in your

0:18

favorites Back on the pie Guess where

0:20

they new book untangle your emotions? We

0:22

have the one and only journey al

0:25

in work going to Hide and was

0:27

it. Ah thanks friend So going to

0:29

be here it is great for you

0:31

to be here. I was just doing

0:33

a little Instagram Q and a and

0:35

so I was asking advice and a

0:37

particular. Subject and I'm quoting you and

0:39

quoting you And then I'm like are

0:42

I gotta go I'm going to interview

0:44

her Actually is that it will give

0:46

rise to com Really, you're a well

0:48

wisdom. And. Thanks

0:50

for and yeah well I'm excited about

0:52

this book. Actually this is launch day

0:55

to day to day so his book

0:57

on Jay's launch day to day as

0:59

launched earlier when this is the ocean

1:01

and but today they we're recording it.

1:03

It's watch said today as long as

1:05

you're recording it this comes out next

1:08

week right before if gathering so many

1:10

good things happening or in your life

1:12

which is a anchor. Yeah wow I'm

1:14

busy so how are you feeling on

1:16

book launch day. Here. His

1:18

been such a good day and I'm so

1:21

grateful and. Is. Good that

1:23

you know I feel like I had

1:25

a good break and now it's go

1:27

time and everything in my life is

1:30

is full steam ahead. But I I

1:32

love it all and really great on

1:34

trying to just enjoy it all and

1:36

celebrate a little. Yeah. You shed

1:39

so as our shared woods been fun to watch

1:41

it's it's truly like when you got on he

1:43

said i love you so much much I love

1:45

you so much in is so fun to watch

1:48

you thrive my I I've got to hear some

1:50

of the dreams here are and seeing them come

1:52

to life is is so beautiful and even from

1:54

a foreign social media I will listen the on

1:56

other people's hike in she's like seeing you do

1:59

all this and. incredible work is awesome.

2:01

And this book is so needed. So

2:04

let's just dive in. Jenny, tell

2:06

us about just the research.

2:08

Did you talk about how you research a lot,

2:10

which is one of the things I love so

2:12

much about you and it's why wisdom flows from

2:15

you. But tell us about the research of emotions.

2:18

Yeah, well, it's such a ginormous

2:20

subject. I was like, how do I even begin?

2:22

And it was fascinating.

2:24

I mean, so many wise counselors

2:26

have written beautiful books on our

2:29

emotional life. And I

2:31

found wonderful authors like Chip Dodd,

2:33

who have just spelled out

2:35

the heart and it's just so helpful. And

2:38

I'm grateful for people like Brene

2:40

Brown, lots of authors, lots

2:43

of secular. I read a lot of science

2:45

and research that even in that book,

2:47

at some points, some of the books,

2:49

it was, you know, I'm an atheist,

2:51

they would mention that which blew my

2:53

mind because everything I was

2:55

reading was such evidence of a

2:58

designer, such as well of, of

3:01

the Bible even, but at

3:04

my core, I'm a theologian, I went to seminary

3:06

for three years and was trained in that. So

3:08

that's how I think that's what I do. But

3:11

when I, when I

3:13

approach the science, it's always reinforcing of

3:15

the theology that I have. And then

3:17

what the Bible actually says. So it's

3:19

just so fun to me.

3:22

I love all of that part. And I learned

3:25

pretty quickly that there,

3:29

there's a vast amount

3:32

of research that would say

3:34

the same thing. And

3:36

it would say, basically, let

3:39

me summarize all the science, mourn

3:41

with those who mourn,

3:44

that our healing is in

3:48

places of connection, that

3:50

our emotions are meant to

3:53

bring us into deeper relationship.

3:57

And what we know from the Bible is into

3:59

deeper relationship God too. But what's interesting and

4:01

why this felt like such an important project

4:03

is I looked at the church and

4:05

I thought, wow, not only have I

4:08

judged my own emotions and possibly other

4:10

people's as well in

4:12

my lifetime, I think the

4:14

church has taught me that. And I

4:16

think the world has taught me that.

4:19

And I think it's all a reaction to

4:22

what we know is out there as well,

4:24

which is feelings are everything. Our emotions are

4:26

God. This is all that matters is pursuing

4:28

happiness. So we see people that have just

4:31

gone completely off a cliff with their lives

4:33

and their decisions because they

4:35

have made emotions, their God.

4:37

So that is certainly not what I'm saying.

4:39

Yeah. But in our, we have overreacted to

4:42

that way. And honestly, that

4:44

way of life is makes so much

4:47

sense. I mean, if you don't

4:49

believe in God, then even

4:52

Paul and Corinthians says, if Christ is not

4:54

raised from the dead, eat and drink because

4:56

tomorrow you die, go be happy. There's nothing

4:58

else. Like go do it. So even the

5:00

Bible tells you, if there's no God, like

5:02

just go ahead and live it up because

5:04

it goes to black. But if

5:06

Christ is raised from the dead, it changes everything. And

5:09

so our, as a Christian,

5:12

my understanding is God is my

5:14

God and he is

5:16

emotional. And so

5:19

emotions must be good. They must not

5:21

even just be neutral. They must be

5:23

good. Wow. And they must be good

5:26

gifts for purpose. And

5:28

the purpose is clear throughout scripture. And

5:30

you see it best in David's life, but certainly

5:32

in Jesus's life as well, that

5:34

connection with God and connection with

5:37

others is where our emotions

5:39

are meant to lead us. And

5:41

so as that happens, we all experienced that

5:44

we've all experienced crying with a good friend

5:46

and how afterwards, for some reason, we feel

5:48

better. Even though nothing changed

5:50

about your circumstance, you just

5:52

feel better. Yeah. And, and

5:54

the science would say your brain

5:56

actually is healing as you are mourning

5:59

with someone morning. And

6:01

it is, it's a miracle, but

6:03

it's the way God built us. Wow. Gosh,

6:05

that's so good. There's like a million places I want to

6:08

go after you just said that. But

6:10

you said something in your book about how a

6:12

lot of times you tend to, you're used to,

6:14

you don't do this anymore, but you would tend

6:16

to tell people about what you went through after

6:18

the fact, like after you got yourself together. And

6:21

I do that all the time. I actually just did this this

6:23

past week. So when I was reading this, I was like, man,

6:25

that is so me. And like,

6:27

I was going through some anxiety stuff last week

6:30

and it was pretty intense. And then

6:32

I got through it, you know, and then I tell

6:34

everybody, oh yeah, last week I was having so much

6:37

anxiety. And like, you feel like

6:39

you're being vulnerable because you shared, but you didn't

6:41

share when you were really going through it. And

6:43

so that's hard. How do you get

6:45

to that point? You

6:48

know, I think that's the hardest part is it's

6:50

awkward and it's scary and it doesn't always go

6:52

well. And you feel like you can't risk it

6:55

in the midst of an emotional struggle because you're

6:57

already kind of teetering on a breakdown and you

6:59

don't want to make it worse. And so you're

7:01

like, I don't want to share this and it

7:03

go terribly wrong. So I just, I

7:06

have so much compassion for that place

7:08

because while this is the best and

7:10

I can convince you of it and

7:12

show you literally videos of people's brains

7:14

healing because of

7:17

sharing struggles with people

7:19

and finding connection. I can

7:21

say it's just hard oftentimes to receive it.

7:25

And so I would just say, first of all, I love you and I'm

7:27

sorry for last week. And

7:30

I would say if we could just

7:33

pretend, you know, thousands of

7:35

people weren't listening that we would, we

7:37

would walk through it together. And

7:40

I would say, of course you

7:42

felt that way. I would say, I feel

7:46

compassion and sadness that you

7:48

felt alone in that week. And I would have loved to

7:50

know to be there for you. I

7:53

would say things like that. And you

7:55

would think that wouldn't make a big difference, but

7:57

it actually does. And that's why

7:59

I love you. loved the research so much was because it

8:02

was so comforting that, wow,

8:05

we really can just be there for each

8:07

other. Yeah. And it really

8:09

helped. And Jesus was so good at this. I

8:11

mean, he was so surprisingly great at this over and

8:13

over again. I mean, he would be there for people

8:15

in their anger. He would let the

8:17

disciples try to figure out where they were sitting next

8:19

to him. He would let them be

8:21

completely freaked out on the boat while he was sitting

8:24

there and had complete control over the waves. Like you

8:26

see him meeting the needs

8:28

of the woman at the well

8:30

and moving into her emotional life. You

8:33

see him not being impatient

8:35

with Martha when she's furious at him

8:37

for not being there when Lazarus died.

8:40

You see him with the disciples and

8:42

they're losing their mind and they're scared

8:44

and they're frustrated because the storm

8:47

is crazy and he's sitting in the boat

8:49

and he's just patient. You know, he's just

8:51

patient. And I

8:54

think we think God is judging our

8:56

feelings because we're judging our feelings and

8:58

because we're judging other people's

9:00

feelings. And there is a part of us

9:02

that just learned to do that from a very young age. And

9:06

even if you think you're someone that doesn't judge your

9:08

emotions, which most of us, I think are aware that

9:10

we're doing it, when you

9:12

think about crying in front of someone else, you'll

9:14

know it. Everybody says the same

9:16

thing. I'm sorry. Everybody feels guilty

9:18

for crying with someone. And yet

9:21

the person receiving those tears feels like it's the

9:24

greatest gift in the whole wide world. Like

9:26

that person would share their heart

9:28

with them and that sacred place of grief with

9:30

them. And so these emotions are

9:32

gifts meant to connect us to God and meant to

9:34

connect us deeper with each other, but we're scared of

9:37

them. We judge them. We push them down.

9:39

We control them. We try. We

9:42

cope with them. We

9:45

conceal them. We don't want to share

9:47

them. And that's what's meant

9:49

to happen. And so whether you feel like

9:52

you're emotionally unstable and you're

9:54

just wildly emotional or

9:57

you're someone who's like, I'm not very emotional at all. All

10:00

of us are emotional because we are made in

10:02

the image of God who is emotional.

10:05

From creation to revelation, you see it. And

10:08

so he begins with delight over

10:10

his creation and then he's quickly

10:12

disappointed and then he's quickly. Anger,

10:15

angry. And you

10:17

see, you see all of that just by Genesis

10:19

four, you know? That's so true. There's,

10:22

there's no doubt our God is emotional. So

10:24

it can't be a sin to have emotions.

10:27

Then the question becomes, well, when does

10:29

it become a sin? Because obviously it

10:31

feels like my anger would be

10:34

a sin and it's what

10:36

do we decide to do with it? And so what

10:38

I did in the book was just build a super

10:40

simple, helpful process with handles. Like notice,

10:43

name, feel, share,

10:46

decide, choose, what are you going to do

10:48

with it? And so it's so simple

10:50

that you can remember it. It

10:52

can do it in the car when you feel frustrated or

10:54

anxious and you don't know why. Yeah. And

10:56

you can kind of go through the process and

10:58

what happens when you do it's so cute. I've

11:00

gotten so many messages from people. What happens when

11:02

you do is all of a sudden you're self-aware

11:04

enough to navigate your relationships

11:07

better. So instead of blowing up

11:09

at someone you love, which is what we tend

11:11

to do, we tend to act like we're not

11:13

emotional, but then we're irritable all the time and

11:16

we don't count that. And

11:20

so we don't count that, but that's

11:22

very much emotions coming out sideways. And

11:24

so what about those

11:27

and what you do instead of being irritable

11:30

as you be vulnerable and you say, you

11:32

know, this is what I'm feeling right now. This

11:35

is what I'm going through. And

11:37

you're able to articulate that because you took just

11:39

a little bit of time to notice

11:41

it and to name it and to feel it. So

11:47

as you probably know, if you've listened to our

11:49

podcast, Christian is a very routine person. I not

11:51

so much. So I need something simple. If you

11:54

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bad to like so many conversations Christian and I

13:38

have, because we'll be acting a certain way and

13:40

it's like, what's wrong with you? And you're like

13:42

nothing. And then finally, it's like, okay, do you

13:44

really want to know what's wrong with me? And

13:46

then it's Typically a vulnerable

13:48

conversation of what we are internally about and it

13:51

has nothing to do with each other. And Yes,

13:53

but it's like we try to act like we're

13:55

not being irritable. Nothing's wrong. He's like, I know

13:57

you and I love you. And I see you.

14:00

Every and so they clearly wrong answer.

14:02

Then you're able to get sadler a

14:04

play. but you know it's so interesting

14:06

about you saying that that on you

14:08

know we're trying to navigate these emotions

14:10

but not tree and to ascend because

14:12

it can. I think I learned something

14:14

so important last week actually through going

14:16

through just a little anxiety because. Of

14:19

his own do this as is really certain

14:21

with and I wasn't sure you with any

14:23

because when I used to struggle with anxiety

14:26

years ago when. I was like eighteen

14:28

nineteen. I was living a

14:30

more sinful lies and I know

14:32

that my anxiety was coming from

14:34

a place of hiding ally and

14:37

are really living more hypocritical and

14:39

since I relates her my life

14:41

around oh in a lot of

14:43

ways anxiety when away and so

14:45

here I am having like similar

14:47

emotion which is an for them

14:50

in a completely different place like

14:52

oh no because my my my

14:54

anxiety as bad fire I wasn't

14:56

having it because of anything sinful.

14:58

Was habit is ours was a but it made

15:01

me feel I owe. note on it's honey one

15:03

because I don't want people to see that it

15:05

has something to hide when I don't and so

15:07

is interesting because. I was actually

15:09

talking to your doctor aim and about this

15:11

because I i talk to him every now

15:14

and then when i you know I'm just

15:16

having to me that he south and i'm

15:18

like oh and a sequences here honey get

15:20

past this somehow this conversation. And. He

15:22

says he like Cd. you know

15:24

you're not crazy. And. You know

15:26

you have a sound mind and you

15:28

know living a great life and doing

15:30

great things and it was is so

15:33

day because I'm I'm nine node. That's

15:35

true. Like I do have a sound

15:37

mind like I know that I'm doing

15:39

great things. I know I'm in a

15:41

good place. So this emotion all the

15:44

same emotions as and I was going

15:46

to sing and not living there anymore

15:48

So it's nothing I need to hide

15:50

even when a lesson have been hiding

15:53

issue and contesting it. But I think

15:55

that that. Is true because I

15:57

just group this the this anxiety.

16:00

In a negative way and and a

16:02

sinful way. like put that away when

16:04

it's not always bad and sometimes it's

16:06

just like a natural feeling they saw.

16:08

Say Saucer gives his you're walking through

16:10

that are a little scary and it's

16:12

a Qaeda talk to people about saw

16:15

an. Ad. On as I was like

16:17

a good revelation for me because I do

16:19

think sometimes it's like when it comes anxiety

16:21

depression sometimes we can make as uma as

16:23

are always bad things are out a sin

16:26

by i'm not always sometimes a gentlemen's and

16:28

you open up in the book about Zoc.

16:30

Walking through depression gets a little bit about

16:33

just walking with someone you're married to do

16:35

yeah something like that. Yeah,

16:37

I will. And first I want to say. Oh

16:40

said he would just even that. Like what

16:42

maturity it says for users to reflect and

16:44

all that and be willing to nights ignore

16:47

that feeling Like that's where emotional and health

16:49

grows is. When you ignore it all you

16:51

think it's gonna go away. staffing to yourself.

16:53

Oh, this is an employee and I'll also

16:56

differently next week and sometimes you do and

16:58

that's okay. I'm not going to pay attention

17:00

to every little feeling that comes our way

17:02

because sometimes it's just moved right? Is it

17:04

a goes away pretty fast? But where you

17:07

just did by taking that to someone for

17:09

whole and even. Selling your community even it was

17:11

after the fact. it's still. Was. The.

17:14

Letting them in that you're able to

17:16

go and what you just model for

17:18

all of us is you're able to

17:20

say. here's what I was feeling and

17:22

here's what I know to be true.

17:25

And. I may have the ceiling again. says.

17:28

There's well, no to be true and I

17:30

won't be sister next time. Yeah, because. That.

17:33

And and that is like if there's one

17:35

gifts I hope this does for people is

17:37

t. To. Them a break some

17:39

linked to a motion so place

17:41

air a job. Play fair and

17:43

you're exactly right you can be.

17:46

Completely. Spun up and anxiety because

17:48

of your own decisions in sin. That is

17:50

true and I put that in the but

17:52

and I'm really clear about that and it

17:54

is worse South assessing If you feel like

17:56

that, maybe you. Because. send leads to

17:58

send and death And following

18:01

the Spirit leads to life and peace. And that's

18:03

Romans eight. So we know that there

18:06

are two rows and one leads to death. And so

18:08

of course we get anxious and depressed when we're on

18:10

a road to death. That is

18:12

real. And if you have been choosing things that

18:14

are on that road, there is grace

18:17

and there is no condemnation for those who are

18:19

in Christ Jesus. And there is forgiveness because of

18:21

the blood of Jesus and the sacrifice that he

18:23

made. So there's that and you

18:25

can turn off that road because of the power

18:27

of God inside of you anytime, if you believe

18:29

in Jesus. So that's real. But

18:32

then there's my husband and

18:35

what you felt last week. My husband was

18:38

a pastor and outside of just running

18:40

his body into the ground. And he

18:42

would say not believing the theology of

18:44

finiteness, that he can't just do everything,

18:46

that he didn't rest well and all

18:48

that. He did not, you know, there

18:50

was nothing he dug deep. And he

18:52

was like, is anything I'm doing the

18:55

reason I'm depressed? Cause it was

18:57

pretty, that first one was the dark night of

18:59

the soul. I was scared for his life. He

19:02

was in a really bad place.

19:04

He had just finished 10 years of pastoring

19:07

and had handed the church into great hands.

19:09

He was still a pastor, but the church

19:11

had merged with the bigger church. And

19:14

he just, it's like his body just broke and his

19:16

mind broke and he was gone. I

19:18

mean, it was like I was living with a

19:20

shell of a human. Like he was just gone. Hardest

19:24

year of my life. Of course, that wasn't the

19:26

only, this was of course

19:28

the year before if gathering and the first year a book came out.

19:30

So of course there was probably some spiritual warfare going on around

19:32

it at that time too. But

19:34

looking back, everything

19:37

was broken in our lives. And

19:40

I really went numb at that point because

19:42

I just,

19:45

I didn't know what else to do. My kids needed

19:47

me. Cooper had just come home from Rwanda. We

19:50

were surviving. Our church was merging at the

19:53

time. And so people were disappointed. We were

19:55

changing things on them. I mean, we didn't

19:57

have our secure community we'd had. It

20:01

was just, I mean, like I get the EVGVs

20:03

when I think back to that season and how

20:05

insanely difficult it was. And

20:07

because he was just gone, I couldn't fall

20:09

apart. Like I couldn't. I couldn't. Yeah.

20:13

And so how I processed that season was to go

20:15

numb. And that's actually like in

20:17

the research, that's actually a gift at times. And

20:19

I even wrote in the book from the research

20:21

and knowing what this was like myself, you may

20:23

get to this point in the book, you know,

20:26

more than halfway and decide like, I can't do

20:28

this next part because I'm not in

20:30

a place to feel my feelings. I just can't, I can't do

20:32

this part. I can do it later, but I can't do it

20:34

now because that's

20:36

a great feature that put in

20:38

our brains to survive. Navy SEALs use it. Brain

20:41

surgeons use it. People that just

20:43

had a loved one die use it. So even

20:45

that part we can be so compassionate for. Like

20:47

I'm so compassionate on my, you

20:49

know, 30 something

20:52

cells that was doing the best she could with

20:54

four kids and a new adopted son. My

20:57

husband gone basically, but in the house. And

20:59

so, you know,

21:01

I think that's the point of

21:03

all this is just that wherever you are, there's

21:07

grace, there's compassion. There's

21:10

a God that is saying, of course you feel

21:12

that way kid. Of course you feel that way

21:14

baby girl. Like this is hard.

21:17

And when our emotions are

21:19

feel out of control, we've got

21:22

to remember we're in a world that's very out of

21:24

control. And

21:26

so when you think back to your three year old self,

21:28

or maybe you think of your three year old and

21:31

you're throwing a fit in the, you

21:33

know, grocery cart and

21:36

you didn't get what you wanted that day, you have to

21:38

remember to that three year old. That

21:42

ice cream was all there was to her day. Like

21:44

there was no perspective. There was

21:46

no, you do other good things for me. There

21:48

was you are not giving me what you want, what I want.

21:51

And then we all know we get punished for that or we

21:53

punish our kids for that, but they're

21:55

confused. You know, I remember my, I remember

21:57

Kay used to say, you're hurting my feelings. I

22:00

was like, I'm just being a good parent

22:02

here. But

22:05

I know what she meant in her little mind, in her

22:07

little world, she was doing the best she could and

22:10

letting me know how she felt. And so I

22:13

do think we are afraid of these emotions,

22:15

but I think God is way more patient

22:17

with them than

22:19

our parents were when we were three and they were pinching our

22:21

leg, you know? Quit acting

22:23

this way. Yeah, that's

22:26

so funny that you bring that up because that

22:28

was gonna be my next question. Like having a

22:30

two and a half year old and dealing with

22:32

her emotions, like how do I deal with them

22:34

in a loving way, but

22:36

also like helping shape and

22:38

correct. Whenever I'm like,

22:41

hey, they don't own you, they don't need to

22:43

own you, but they also, you know? But

22:45

also, I care, it's so funny they say

22:47

about Kate because honey, she always gives back

22:49

to me what I give to her, so she's

22:51

so smart. So I always tell

22:53

her like, honey, you need to learn dot, dot, dot. So

22:56

the other day I was telling her no for something and

22:59

she said, mommy, you need to learn how to say yes. I

23:02

was like. You are, this

23:04

is not gonna get easier, Zayden. She's two

23:07

and a half. She's only gonna get smarter.

23:09

Two and a half. She's like, mommy, you

23:11

need to learn how to say yes. I

23:13

started dying laughing. This is the result of

23:16

two super strong

23:18

humans making a human. She's so

23:20

true, she is so strong, she's

23:22

so smart, but she's got some

23:24

big emotions right now. I mean,

23:26

we are in the tantrum. Her

23:29

and Mary Kate and Jen like started ELLA to

23:31

the same age and it was like at the

23:33

same time they hit this point where when they

23:35

get upset, they both just hit the floor. It's

23:37

just like arms out legs out,

23:39

can't handle it. And so what they could,

23:41

how do you like not shame them, but

23:43

also not let their emotions rule them and

23:46

like correct them in a loving way.

23:52

Friends, if you've been following along my

23:54

family's life at all, then adoption is near

23:56

to our hearts. Three of my siblings are

23:58

actually adopted. And I cannot imagine

24:01

my family without my siblings who are adopted.

24:03

They are just as much fam as my

24:05

other siblings who are biological, and we love

24:07

talking about the gift that adoption has been

24:10

in our family and the importance of foster

24:12

care and adoption. So I'm so honored to

24:14

be speaking at the chosen conference at Prestonwood

24:16

Baptist Church in Plano, Texas on Saturday, April

24:19

the 13th. This conference will

24:21

focus on things like empowering churches to

24:23

build their own foster care and adoption

24:25

ministries, encouraging Christian families to get involved,

24:27

and equipping families who are already involved

24:30

in fostering or adopting. This day-long conference

24:32

will also feature dozens of breakout sessions

24:34

to address tons of important issues affecting

24:37

this conversation. My parents really took it

24:39

to heart that verse James 1, 27,

24:42

to care for the orphans and provide a forever

24:44

family for precious, vulnerable children. I have seen the

24:46

beauty of adoption in my own family, so this

24:48

is a subject that's super close to my heart.

24:50

Also, my mom, Cori Robertson, will be a guest

24:52

speaker at the conference too. Y'all are going to

24:54

love listening to her message in wisdom. I know

24:56

God is going to be moving this day, and

24:58

we want to invite you to be there

25:01

to make plans to join me for

25:03

chosen on April the 13th at Prestonwood

25:05

Baptist Church in Plano, Texas. You can

25:08

learn more at prestonwood.org/chosen. That's

25:10

Preston P-R-E-S-T-O-N, wood.org,

25:13

O-R-G slash chosen. We'll

25:15

see you there. So

25:19

I like to say this, and granted, I am

25:22

a fixer at heart all my life. I've been

25:24

fixing my kids' problems instead of doing what I'm

25:26

talking about. I can't say

25:28

I've done this their whole lives now. They asked me

25:30

to do this. I remember once they were old enough,

25:32

they would say, I just want you to listen to

25:34

me. I just want you to not

25:36

try to fix me, mom. They would say things like

25:39

that, but I literally, it was like I could not

25:41

stop. I wanted to fix that. My

25:44

mouth, I mean, still to this day, even though I've

25:46

done all this work and I've had two years of

25:48

recovery from my fixer self, I still,

25:51

it's so hard not to just

25:53

fix the problem. I

25:55

would just say this. I would say that honoring

25:58

feelings. while

26:01

teaching them to be respectful is

26:03

huge. So I was on

26:06

the phone with the producer of a very

26:08

well-known morning show that I'm going on later this

26:10

week. And it's

26:12

a secular show, I doubt he's a Christian, he may be.

26:15

And he's talking to me about

26:17

his kid, and he starts

26:19

crying, and he said, I got this book about a week ago.

26:22

And my child is

26:24

just really emotional, and

26:27

I haven't known what

26:29

to do, and I've honestly just kept saying, don't

26:33

act that way, you don't need to feel that, like

26:36

don't rage about that. Like he

26:38

said, I've just been trying to correct his

26:40

behavior all the time. But

26:42

I read this book, and he is just

26:45

literally weeping. And he said, I stopped, and

26:48

I just started pulling him on my lap, and I

26:50

started saying, I'm so sorry that you feel so sad

26:52

right now. And I love you, and I'm

26:54

here for you. And you'd be

26:56

a brick wall when it comes to consequences,

26:58

you'd be a brick wall when it comes

27:01

to disrespect. Like, but

27:04

you'd be a comforter for the fact that

27:06

at three or two and a half, she's

27:09

kind of doing the best she can with what she

27:11

knows. And yet, you're

27:13

not gonna be, like there's consequences, and

27:16

we're gonna enforce them. So I'm a

27:18

big fan of that, we're strict parents,

27:20

and I believe that is a necessary

27:22

thing. But it's

27:26

like if the consequences are clear, then

27:30

you can let them be the bad guy, and you can be

27:32

the good guy. And

27:34

you can say, man, I know, I hate

27:37

this with you, that you lost this,

27:40

like I hate it. But

27:42

that's the consequence of the decision

27:44

you made, but man, I'm sad with you,

27:46

you can't have that. So it's empathizing with

27:48

the feeling, but not

27:52

letting them be a brat. Yes, they're still

27:54

gonna be punished. Well,

27:56

I think that that's so good to establish at a young age,

27:58

because that essentially is kind of the problem. we're

28:00

seeing now with like Gen Z a lot

28:02

of times because we are letting our feelings

28:04

rule us and own us and the outcome

28:06

is entitlement a lot of times and it's

28:09

like no this is unhealthy you know you

28:11

have to be able to speak truth over

28:13

yourself and say yes you know we can

28:15

you can empathize with that you understand why

28:17

you're there but don't stay there like there's

28:19

so much more and I think even with

28:21

honey we're trying to teach her um you

28:24

know these big things like one of the first scriptures

28:27

we taught her was God will never leave you or

28:29

forsake you He'll never leave you or forsake He's

28:31

always with you but then I've noticed like when

28:33

she gets in trouble and has to go time

28:35

out she always says don't leave me don't leave

28:37

me and I tell her I say honey I

28:39

will never leave you I'm never gonna leave you

28:42

because I'm upset with you but you do have

28:44

to sit here for a second and that because

28:46

that was the rule that if you do this

28:48

right you're gonna have to be in time out

28:50

for a minute and so I think just establishing

28:53

that like I'm not leaving because you're upset I'm

28:55

not leaving because you're acting this way I'll never

28:57

leave you but I'm gonna let you sit here

28:59

for a second because there are consequences

29:01

to uh just like you said

29:04

it's sin it's a leading to death I'm not gonna

29:06

let you walk that road you know I'm gonna help

29:08

you so I

29:10

love what you shared and actually I just

29:12

thought about this because I have not sent

29:14

you this yet but at Liberty I was

29:16

teaching at Liberty University last week and

29:19

I used you as an example because

29:21

in in this uh it is actually funny that

29:23

we're talking about this and I totally forgot to

29:25

even text you this but um I was talking

29:27

about confession and obviously you talk about

29:29

confession a lot so I was talking

29:31

about like confessing what you feel convicted in and

29:33

I talk about how it was like the very

29:35

first if gathering that it came to the one

29:37

that I didn't know any of you all at

29:39

yeah and you like so proud of you I

29:41

know I'm glad you came to that by the

29:43

way me too wow that was a game changer

29:45

life changer girl so I'm sitting

29:47

there and you're about to

29:50

share something really big and you're

29:52

like you all have to confess

29:54

something to everyone and I remember you

29:56

confessed and shared that you had been

29:58

doubting God And I remember

30:01

sitting there and honestly I

30:03

thought, well, like,

30:06

I don't die. Like, she feels

30:08

so convicted by this. Like, I don't,

30:10

I feel like I've got a guy. I haven't thought it's that

30:12

big of a deal. And I remember

30:14

thinking about your confession and like comparing my

30:17

own conviction to it and thinking like, huh,

30:19

like that was such a big thing. And

30:21

why haven't I felt that? Well, I shared

30:23

this the other day at Liberty because I

30:25

talked about how we can't

30:27

like compare each other's conviction because

30:30

if I were to say, for

30:32

instance, like sometimes like

30:34

there are sin that's sin and it's like, don't

30:36

do that. But then there are other things that are like,

30:39

okay, well, you know, for instance, I talked about watching

30:41

the show that I was watching and I started feeling

30:43

convicted by it, but I'm like, all my friends watch

30:45

it. It's not that big of a deal. And

30:48

so I'm like, I'm just going to keep watching it.

30:50

But then I talked about how like, no, it says

30:52

in James, if you know what is wrong and you

30:54

continue to do it, then it's a sin for you.

30:56

And so then I say, so it was a sin

30:58

for me because I knew not to do it, but

31:00

I'm comparing myself. And then I said, but here's the

31:03

thing. I am a speaker.

31:05

I have a microphone in front of me

31:07

all the time. So to me, watching shows

31:09

that are putting in words in my head

31:11

or thoughts in my head, it

31:14

actually can be detrimental because from the

31:16

heart, so the mouth shall speak. So

31:18

I have to protect my heart after

31:20

you're covering and I said, going back

31:22

to what Jenny said, if

31:24

Jenny had let that doubt factor,

31:27

I said, I know what

31:29

Jenny is doing nowadays. She has touched millions and

31:31

millions of people since that if gathering I went

31:33

to because of her faith in God, because of

31:35

the way her family has endured hard times and

31:37

the things. And I like just talked about all

31:39

these things you've done. I'm like, and none of

31:41

these books and none of these gatherings and none

31:43

of these, her family would not be where that

31:45

if she would have let that doubt lead

31:48

to death. Because it says in James,

31:50

you know, then what's conceived gives birth to

31:52

death. So I'm like, she can't

31:54

let that like she couldn't breathe on that. So what

31:56

I thought was a like smaller thing of time

31:59

was a huge. It could have been

32:01

detrimental. So you say, you

32:03

know, it might be small to you, but it's

32:05

a big thing to someone else. And we did

32:07

this little analogy on like, I said, does anyone

32:09

think it's a big deal to cheat in high

32:12

school? Who cheated? Everyone raised their hand.

32:15

And then I said, okay, teachers, close your eyes. And

32:17

I said, was it a big deal? I don't know.

32:19

Heart wise, yes, really wasn't, I don't

32:21

know. I said, but if your brain

32:23

surgeon comes in to the operating table

32:25

and says, I cheated my whole way

32:27

through school, didn't you too? All of

32:29

a sudden it's a big deal. I

32:32

was like, and now what his little

32:34

conviction was matters, when yours didn't matter.

32:36

And so anyway, just talk about that.

32:38

And so I think like going

32:40

back to the emotions, like even

32:43

like doubting or fear, whatever it is,

32:45

it's like, it might not be a big

32:47

deal at the beginning, but it can grow

32:49

to something really big and it

32:51

can grow to something detrimental. I know what anxiety

32:53

does for me. At first it's

32:55

small, but it leads to big attacks.

32:58

And so like, I have to get

33:00

it out until I have to confess

33:02

and you are the best teacher I

33:04

know about the power of confession. And

33:06

I saw you, you put this in

33:08

the book and I've heard you say

33:10

on podcasts that actually like in the

33:12

brain, things begin to heal as you

33:14

confess and communicate those things. Like that

33:16

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If you're a business, you need this. Yeah,

35:08

so you got to realize trauma. You can

35:10

go through one of the hardest things you

35:12

would have ever imagined going through and

35:15

not feel alone in it. And

35:17

those people end up okay. But

35:20

if you go through something even small, little,

35:22

little, small trauma, and you're alone

35:25

in it, it will cause more

35:27

damage. And so it truly

35:29

is the circumstance that affects us the

35:31

most is being alone. So what

35:34

Confession does and why God calls us to it,

35:36

he calls us to it because he knows healing happens

35:40

when not only between us and God,

35:42

when we say it out loud to him, but when

35:44

we say it out loud to others, all

35:47

of a sudden you just invited

35:49

in healing because people

35:51

get to be the

35:54

love of Jesus to you if they

35:56

do it right. Right. I mean, sometimes

35:58

it's done wrong. and mature

36:00

people can hurt you. But

36:04

if you believe in the gospel, which is

36:06

Romans 8.1, there is therefore now no condemnation

36:08

for those who are in Jesus Christ. Then there is

36:10

a safety in the

36:12

church with people that love God

36:15

that you can't find anywhere else. Where

36:17

else is there no condemnation? Yeah, that's

36:19

true. Only in Christ Jesus. So

36:22

it really is, this should be the Christian

36:24

friendship and the church should be the safest

36:26

place to say anything I call the last

36:28

2%. And that

36:30

last 2% is the thing that either has

36:32

all the power or it is

36:35

the thing that releases all the power.

36:37

And you can hold

36:39

it to yourself. And sometimes

36:41

it's embarrassing. I just think

36:43

it's even a private conversation you

36:46

and I have had that I love. I know, I

36:48

started laughing. You're laughing. I started laughing. But it was

36:50

that we both were telling each other things and we

36:52

were laughing as we were saying them.

36:54

Because I'm like, gosh, we haven't told anybody this. And

36:57

it wasn't big, y'all. It wasn't like we

36:59

were having some secret affair or pornography or

37:01

something. It was just little. But it was,

37:04

y'all would find it little. And

37:07

yet it was big to us because it was embarrassing.

37:09

It was like, I don't want to say this out

37:11

loud. And so that had its

37:13

power, right? It wasn't that it was big,

37:16

but it had big power. Big power. And

37:18

so when you say it, all

37:20

of a sudden the power the enemy had,

37:22

it goes away. And

37:24

you feel free. So it really is,

37:26

and that's what I hope in confession. Let

37:28

me say this last thing. Confession is not

37:30

just sin, okay? Confession

37:34

is anxiety last week for you, Sadie.

37:36

Confession is to say what is true. To

37:40

say what is true is to confess. So

37:43

confession can be, I have

37:45

been in a hard marriage for a long time. That's

37:47

not sin necessarily. There might be some sin in there,

37:50

but that statement isn't sin. But maybe you've never said that

37:53

out loud, but that is true. And you need to say

37:55

it out loud. What Jesus did

37:57

with the woman at the well was so funny. I

37:59

mean, He wanted her to say her problem.

38:01

He wanted her to say her circumstances

38:04

and her embarrassment. He wanted her to

38:06

say what she felt, why she was there in the middle

38:08

of the day. And he

38:10

gave her every chance to do it and then she

38:12

wouldn't do it. And then he said, well, here's

38:14

your problem. And then he told on her. And

38:18

why would he do that? That sounds mean

38:20

because he knows that's her freedom. So

38:23

he was determined for her to say it out loud.

38:25

And if she wouldn't say it, he'll say it. And

38:28

not to judge her, but to set her free. So

38:31

we say it to be set free. And

38:34

we'll get found out out

38:37

of the mercy of God, if we don't. So

38:39

go ahead and say it out. That is

38:42

so true. Cause it

38:44

is his mercy. It is his mercy that leads to

38:46

repentance. And if he has to publicly take

38:49

us out, like that's a mercy.

38:52

It's a mercy. And

38:55

so we confess privately. So

38:58

he didn't, you know. That

39:00

is so true. Literally, I love that you

39:02

said that because my mom told us that

39:04

when Doug Dynasty started. She said, I'm going

39:07

to give you all some advice. They're

39:09

going to find out anything and everything. So you might

39:11

as well be the one to tell your stuff so

39:13

that it could come from your own voice. And

39:16

it's so true. And you take away that power

39:18

that the enemy has over you making that 2%

39:20

seem like a big deal. Cause I think, so

39:22

the 2%, you were just talking about, I

39:24

love that you said it. Cause I started laughing when you said that. Cause

39:26

I'm like, you know my 2%. Because

39:29

I was like so embarrassed to say this.

39:31

And what's so cool about it though, is

39:33

when I shared that and then you shared

39:35

what you shared back to me, it took

39:37

away which was the exact same struggle. The

39:39

exact same struggle. Which you didn't know I

39:41

would say. Never. Maybe one day

39:44

we'll think about this and share this.

39:46

But not for today's bike. Everyone wants

39:48

us to right now. Everyone wants to.

39:51

We'll have to ponder that

39:53

one and maybe do an

39:55

in-person interview. I will say

39:57

nothing we are talking about is disqualifying. I didn't even say

39:59

that. I found nothing is this common. It

40:01

was hard to heart. It was hard to

40:04

heart. Nothing disqualified. Truly. I love Jenny. She's

40:06

the best leader. Incredible person after even knowing

40:08

the two percent. It was just real. But

40:10

what I want to say to you is

40:12

that it seems so scary and embarrassing

40:14

because even though it's not a big deal, I

40:16

think some people put like, put small

40:18

things as a bigger deal to other people. It's

40:20

like, Oh, well, you're this leader, you're this person.

40:23

And then you get scared because you're like, well,

40:25

this isn't a big deal. But if someone signs

40:27

out or someone thinks that they're going to be

40:29

like, what the heck? Like you think that are

40:31

you struggle with that? And so it's really hard.

40:33

But when you confess, it's really not to

40:35

shame you. It's really not to judge you. It really is. That

40:38

conversation we had set me free.

40:41

It really does. And now I have learned

40:43

to love confession truly, like not in a

40:45

weird way, but again, just speaking what is

40:47

true, because I'm like, if I get

40:49

it out now, it's like nothing, you know,

40:51

I mean, yes, it takes vulnerability. Yes, it

40:53

takes a bit. Yes, it's still hard. But

40:56

at the same time, I've seen the consequences

40:58

of not and that is so much harder.

41:00

And so man, I love it. Well, this

41:02

is so good. Last question, I'm teeing you

41:04

up for a win because I love how

41:06

you talk about this. But tell me why

41:08

you felt like Jesus wept. Why you think

41:10

he cried in that moment. So

41:18

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41:20

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41:22

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41:24

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41:53

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41:56

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will love this. You know, I mean, the

43:27

story is

43:29

fantastic. There

43:33

was, his one of his best

43:35

friends dies and he knows it and

43:37

he tells the people he's with, he's in a different

43:39

town. Lazarus just

43:41

fell asleep and I'm gonna go wake him up in

43:44

three days. And so he says

43:46

that. And so we know he knows he's gonna

43:48

heal him, right? And so then

43:50

they wait, they don't even go back yet. So

43:53

now Lazarus has been dead three days. So he walks into

43:55

the town of his best friends, Martha,

43:57

Mary and Lazarus. And, and... says,

44:00

ticked and let them have it, like

44:02

just yells at him. And

44:05

he's patient with her. And then Mary

44:07

comes and hears he's coming and runs

44:09

out and falls out of his feet and is

44:11

weeping. And it says that

44:13

Jesus was moved with compassion toward Mary

44:15

and those that were crying nearby, like

44:17

all the people crying. And then

44:19

it says, take me to him. And then it

44:22

says, the famous two words, the shortest

44:24

verse in the Bible, Jesus wept. Now,

44:27

why this mattered so much to me is because

44:29

I was a fixer. And I

44:32

always thought that if I could fix my kids

44:35

problem or fix my problem or fix my

44:37

friends problem, that that would, that

44:39

would help, I would be a helper, and

44:41

that would solve it. And they wouldn't be in

44:43

pain anymore. And I wasn't comfortable with sadness and

44:45

anger and fear. And

44:48

I judge my own. So I judged other people's, which is what

44:50

we do. And, and so, you know,

44:54

as I studied all this, I was so convicted,

44:56

because I was like, God, like, I hadn't

44:58

ever realized that he already knew what he was going to do.

45:00

He knew he was about to

45:02

heal him. And he should have walked in and been

45:04

like, don't be mad. Don't be sad. Like I

45:07

got, I'll fix him. Good.

45:09

Let's solve the problem. Watch

45:13

this, you know? Yeah, I'm going to be like,

45:15

that's how I'd roll. I'd be like, watch

45:17

this go down. I wouldn't, I

45:19

couldn't wait. I'd be like, watch this, meet up my

45:22

tower over death, you know, and I'd be preaching. I'd

45:24

be like, God, I got this y'all. This could be

45:26

all you one day. Like, I would have a great

45:28

sermon. And, and

45:31

he weeps. And it just it's the most I mean,

45:34

it makes me cry because I'm so bad at this.

45:36

And I'm so convicted by it. But

45:38

it's the most confounding thing until you

45:41

understand how healing happens. Until

45:43

you see videos, which I've

45:45

seen of neural pathways, like finding each

45:47

other again and healing like this is

45:49

possible. And, and he knows that the

45:51

problem in the room is not just

45:53

that there that the situation

45:55

is bad, because Lazarus will die again

45:58

one day, they will all die. He

46:01

knows that the hardest

46:03

part is what they feel in that moment.

46:06

It's not that the circumstance is broken. He

46:09

can fix that. It's that the

46:11

weeping, the disappointment they feel

46:14

toward him, the anger

46:16

they feel toward him. Like he

46:18

sits with all of it and

46:20

he absorbs it and he feels it

46:22

too. He had all perspective and knowledge.

46:26

He knew where, right where heaven

46:28

was and where we would all go and how it would be

46:30

okay one day. He knows, you know, but that's

46:32

what we do. We tend to think

46:34

we don't have enough faith and that's why we're sad. We

46:36

don't have enough faith and that's why we're anxious. Or we

46:38

don't have enough faith and that's why we're angry. But

46:42

Jesus had all the faith, like very

46:44

clearly understood. He didn't even need faith.

46:46

He didn't even need it. He had

46:49

seen heaven. He knows, like he knows.

46:53

And he's still wept over death. So

46:57

we don't serve a God who is

46:59

not compassionate. And if any part

47:01

of your brain right now is

47:03

feeling on the brink of just falling

47:05

into a pit of despair, I would

47:07

say, you

47:10

have a God that will be there in that pit

47:12

with you. And

47:15

I pray you have people that will be there in that

47:17

pit with you. But that

47:19

pit is not the worst thing. That

47:21

pit contains healing if you let it. If

47:24

you actually reach for

47:27

God in the pit, if you let other people help

47:29

you in the pit, like the

47:31

best relationships will come from it. Your deepest moments

47:33

with Jesus will come from it. It is

47:36

not the worst thing to be sad. It

47:38

is not the worst thing to be scared. Jesus was

47:40

even scared in the Garden of Gethsemane. The

47:43

Greek word is translated fear and anxiety. He

47:46

felt fear and anxiety in the garden. To

47:48

the point of sweating what was

47:51

like drops of blood. So

47:53

our God is able to empathize in our

47:55

weakness. It says in Hebrews 4 that

47:58

we have a high priest that is. able

48:00

to empathize with our feelings,

48:03

the feelings of our infirmities. That's what

48:05

the King James said. Isn't that

48:07

great? The feeling, he empathizes with

48:10

the feelings of our weakness.

48:13

It's so great. And then yet he didn't, he didn't

48:15

sense, so he felt all of it, but he didn't sense and

48:17

that's possible. It's

48:20

really possible. And I think it's the

48:22

way that we make

48:24

it through this generation

48:26

where emotions are running wild

48:29

everywhere and it feels like they

48:31

have all the control. God

48:33

is in control. However,

48:36

our emotions are a gift and we can

48:38

hold that tension, especially

48:42

if we bring them all to him and

48:44

we confess them to the people that love us.

48:48

Healing happens. And then

48:50

there's times that we just need help and I need to make this

48:52

point too. Some of you would say the waves

48:55

aren't hitting you, your ankles, you're

48:57

not waist deep, you're all the way

48:59

out of the ocean and you're sinking

49:01

and you need help. And I would

49:03

just say to you that are struggling with suicidal

49:05

ideation, that are struggling with depression

49:07

over months, months, possibly even years,

49:09

you need help. Like that

49:11

is real. And there are

49:13

times we cannot rescue ourselves and we

49:16

need, and God puts people in

49:18

our lives to help us navigate seasons like

49:20

that. My husband needed medicine, my husband needed

49:22

counseling, my husband needed help. And

49:25

he got it and healed and

49:28

that stronghold of depression no longer defines

49:30

his life, although it has revisited a

49:32

few times, no longer defines his

49:34

life. And that

49:36

is because he has felt

49:39

what he feels, taken

49:41

it to God and taken it to other people and

49:43

allowed people to help him. And

49:46

so our weakness is

49:50

not the problem, it's are we isolated, are

49:52

we scared to share it? And so

49:54

I love that we talked about Confession in this

49:57

podcast because it really is, that's the first

49:59

step. It is. Wow, Jenny,

50:01

this is it's truly brilliant.

50:03

It's so good It's such a gift to the

50:05

world that you wrote this book and did the

50:08

research that you did everything you've said I've been

50:10

leaning in listening taking my own advice and

50:13

wisdom and looking at areas in my life

50:15

that I can apply these things and as

50:17

A mom, you know apply my things to

50:19

how I parent honey and Haven as a

50:21

wife how I apply these things to my

50:23

marriage I was just a human how I

50:25

think to my own mind and emotions and

50:27

truth and it's just so

50:29

good I mean sitting here. I'm like truly

50:31

of all 200 something plus

50:34

podcast. I've done top five right here

50:36

I just learned so much. I learned

50:38

so much. I love you I'm grateful

50:41

for you and thank you if you're listening

50:43

to this. There's so much more in this

50:45

book I had I had like notes to

50:47

actually stop and read but then it just

50:49

was fun to talk So go get this

50:51

book read this book. It was out the

50:53

day that we recorded. So it's definitely out

50:55

now Jenny You're awesome. I love you friend.

50:58

Thank you for this. I love you great