0:00

It's time for Windows Weekly. Paul Theratz here,

0:02

Richard Campbell's in Las Vegas for his fabric

0:04

conference. There is, of course, as always, lots

0:06

to talk about. Moment 5, yes, it's

0:09

still on its way. In fact, now there's a preview update.

0:11

You can check it out. Good

0:13

news. Qualcomm says most Windows games

0:15

will just work on that new

0:17

X Elite processor. We'll talk about

0:19

gaming on ARM and

0:23

AI, the new Surface Pro X and Surface

0:25

Laptop 6, with CoPilotKey built

0:27

in. All that and more coming up next

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This is Windows Weekly with Paul Tharott

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K-O-L-I-D-E. collide.com

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slash www. It's

3:03

time for Windows Weekly, the show

3:05

we cover the latest Microsoft news

3:08

with Paul Therrotte. Little Polly Therrotte

3:10

from therrotte.com. Back in

3:12

Macungee I believe. Yes? Don't

3:16

rub it in. Did the robot

3:18

follow you from Mexico City? The

3:22

robot was a gift from my

3:24

daughter who actually built that out of

3:26

Lego. Oh it's not. Wow. Very

3:29

nice. On the right is little

3:31

Ricky Campbell. Little

3:36

Polly, little Ricky, little Ricky Campbell from Runners Radio

3:38

and he is in a glass

3:41

cube. Yes I am. I'm being

3:43

fumigated one or the other. I think that's where Paul is. I

3:45

think you get a 10. I

3:48

am at the MGM Grand. I'm

3:50

in a Skyloft because if you

3:53

bring 4,000 of your closest friends to a conference they

3:55

give you a Skyloft. It's nice. A

3:57

Skyloft. Are you in the air? Yeah,

4:00

29 floors up. I'm overlooking the

4:02

airport. So I watch Janet Airways

4:04

go to Area 51 every

4:07

morning. Wow. Yeah, the

4:09

737s. If you're working at

4:11

Area 51, you park over here and then you

4:13

get on the 737 that's all white except for

4:16

a red stripe along the windows. And

4:18

they fly you the half hour and that's the only

4:20

way in and out of that place. Wow. You

4:23

think with all that alien tech they could cut down

4:25

on the flight time. Yeah, but to see how much

4:27

that plane glows as it lands is something. I

4:32

wanted to believe Bob Lazar so much. What brings

4:34

you... No, I'm not gonna fall for that again.

4:36

You're gonna walk into that one again. Oh,

4:40

I'll give it to you. What brings you

4:42

to Las Vegas, Richard? I'm here for the

4:44

Microsoft Fabric Conference. This is one of the

4:46

shows that I've been organizing alongside Dev Intersections

4:48

and some others. This

4:51

is Microsoft... What's your show? My

4:53

show, yeah. Oh, nice. And so

4:55

this is the data analytics, the

4:57

new data analytics stack that Arun Gulag and

4:59

a group of brilliant, brilliant minds have been

5:02

putting together. And we have

5:04

people who are really excited about it. This is

5:06

the first community conference

5:08

and we filled it right

5:10

up. People want to get on board. This

5:12

is huge competitive advantages when

5:14

you do it right. The allowing

5:17

analysts to drive all the way down to

5:19

really shape data and then

5:21

to retain all of that knowledge effectively

5:23

so it can be shared with others. It's

5:25

cool. What is that? It's a

5:27

two hour quick note yesterday and it was spectacular. Nice.

5:30

What is the nexus between business

5:32

information, BI, and data

5:34

fabric? Data

5:37

analytics. Data analytics. These are

5:39

all terms that are intertwined, right?

5:42

Really what you're seeing happening

5:44

now with what Microsoft

5:47

Fabric is becoming is really

5:49

taking advantage of the cloud. Once

5:52

upon a time we were doing business intelligence, more

5:54

of that OLAP, cube, data warehouse approach, you

5:56

had a limited compute resource and so you tended

5:59

to polish. the data, a lot

6:01

of low transform and stuff just to be efficient

6:03

enough so that you could – and this is

6:05

Ralph Kimball's terms if you're old school in

6:07

OLAP – to pursue a

6:10

thread of intuition. You need

6:12

the querying to go fast, right? You're slicing

6:14

and dicing through huge reams of data. And

6:16

so we'd spend a lot of time as

6:19

data engineers getting that data to

6:21

a shape where you could analyze fast. Well, welcome

6:24

to the cloud, friends. And suddenly we have

6:26

all the compute and all the storage we

6:28

need. So no more polishing your data really.

6:30

You put it in a data lake and

6:33

they have this concept they call one lake, sort

6:35

of like OneDrive. And

6:37

you're able to organize data fairly

6:40

easily and you have as much compute as

6:42

you need on demand. So one of

6:45

the problems that happens with a load transform process, often

6:47

you're shaving some of the most interesting bits off the

6:49

data to make it fit into a query plan. And

6:53

the lake approach sort of avoids that in

6:55

exchange for you're using more storage and you're

6:57

doing a lot more indexing, but

6:59

you've got the compute to do it. So why wouldn't you?

7:02

So no more pivot tables, huh? You

7:05

can still make them, but they are derived on the

7:07

fly. You don't pre-compute. In real time. That's

7:10

it. Nice. Do you still have a big dashboard

7:12

for the CEO so he can see

7:14

how every day works? Oh, yeah, dashboards are

7:16

bigger than better than ever. How

7:19

many graphs would you like today?

7:21

They announced a new 100% area

7:24

graph, area line graph

7:26

that was very, very sexy

7:28

with smoothed corners. So no rough

7:31

edges anymore. So the graphs are more

7:33

elegant looking. Good for the C-suite. They

7:36

have made for me, Patrick Elohand, he's made

7:38

for me. I wish I could show you

7:40

my, it says my twit primary systems display.

7:42

It's right in front of me. I

7:45

assume it's modeled after some Star Trek. I

7:48

wish it were. It has a calendar.

7:50

It has date and time. Most recently published

7:52

shows. It has a

7:54

fascinating factoid. How many days

7:56

of episodes? 1058 days to go. 16

8:00

hours 10 minutes and 29 seconds of content in 28,277

8:04

episodes Well,

8:07

but it also tells me a very important thing how many club

8:09

twit members we have and I'm very happy to say We

8:12

are now at eleven thousand four hundred and

8:14

thirty seven Wow, isn't

8:17

that good dude? That's amazing You're

8:21

you had some big goals for this year. It looks

8:23

like you're on your path. Well, we've had them we're

8:25

gonna do a tomorrow We're gonna do a inside to

8:27

it and I think Lisa has said that we're gonna

8:29

have to lower our standards

8:33

Lowered our goals a little bit. We didn't we

8:35

didn't make a goal as far as club membership

8:37

in the first quarter, but We're

8:40

working on it. And if and the reason we're

8:42

working on it as everybody knows media is in

8:44

trouble, especially Podcasting

8:46

because advertising is dwindling

8:49

and we I always thought it would be better

8:51

to have our audience support us

8:53

anyway So we're doing

8:55

and you've been great Thank You club members if you're not

8:58

a member I'll just put a little plug in before we

9:00

get into the show $7

9:02

a month lots of benefits. You're helping us stay

9:04

on the air. None of it goes

9:06

into my pocket That seems to be a

9:09

concern. I am NOT

9:11

a TV preacher You

9:13

don't use your company like a bank like I do

9:15

that's where I am NOT gonna pray for you Just

9:19

send it to PO box. No,

9:21

no go to twit that TV slash club tweet

9:23

because it seems to work for all the tech

9:25

pros I don't I really honestly, I think

9:28

I made a mistake early in life People

9:31

said sometimes they would say well like having integrity

9:33

and yeah, that was my mistake. Yeah, is that

9:35

it? They said I think they asked with ask,

9:37

you know, well if there weren't computers if you

9:39

couldn't be on the radio What would you what

9:42

would you do? And I said, I'd probably a preacher and I

9:44

probably have a lot more money Hmm

9:48

Right, but there you have it Yeah,

9:51

we did build a little crystal Cathedral here

9:53

in the brick house studios Eastside

9:56

Studios, so let's talk about

9:59

moment five because Because God knows we haven't

10:01

done enough about moment

10:03

five. Maybe

10:05

if I missed a couple of shows, moment five would

10:07

have had its moment. But no. We'd

10:09

be talking moment six by now. God

10:12

so. Once a year though, right? There's a

10:14

question about whether there will be a moment

10:16

six or whether that is what becomes 24H2,

10:18

right? So that's an open

10:20

question for now. But-

10:23

What are we on now? I'm on 22H2,

10:25

right? Or

10:28

no? You could be on 22H2 or

10:31

23H2, same code base, same update path,

10:33

same moment five by the way. Oh.

10:36

I think at this point the only difference between 22H2 and 23H2 might

10:38

be where the co-pilot button

10:41

is, but even that might not be a difference. I think

10:43

they're just the same thing. Well, I'm

10:45

going to push this restart now button. What

10:48

could possibly go wrong? And-

10:50

The time-honored Twitch edition. I'll

10:53

be back in the studio. And the

10:55

studio reboots. Everything is right where you

10:57

left it. Paul actually is

10:59

in Pennsylvania. Rich is in

11:01

Nevada. Right. Actually, I'm back in Boston. We've

11:04

gone back in time. Oh yeah. He's

11:06

in denim, ladies and gentlemen. Amazing.

11:09

Yep. So what's up with moment five?

11:11

What are we getting? What's up with moment five?

11:13

Yeah. A lot- There's been some- In fact,

11:15

I put this in the notes. I mean, people

11:17

seem confused. I thought this came out last

11:19

month. What's going on? Yeah. Yeah,

11:22

I did. That's- So Microsoft announced it last

11:24

month. And you could get parts of it

11:27

over some kind of a controlled

11:29

feature release type thing. You

11:32

could force it using third party tools like the Viv

11:34

tool. But officially, it hits

11:37

the preview path this week. This is week D,

11:39

right, for March. And

11:41

then it will go into stable on patch

11:44

Tuesday in April. And

11:47

we know because Microsoft- I don't think we talked

11:49

about this oddly. We must have talked

11:51

about this. Microsoft sometime right

11:54

ahead of the deadline for the DMA published

11:56

a website where they said, here's where we're going to

11:59

document how we are. conforming to the

12:01

requirements of the DMA and our

12:04

gatekeeper products. And

12:06

actually, I give them a little bit

12:08

of credit for that. Some other companies that

12:10

shall go unnamed are more in the kicking and

12:12

screaming style of compliance. Microsoft

12:15

seems to have just kind of embraced it. So

12:21

moment five of the moments we've had so

12:23

far, these are the quarterly feature update packages

12:25

is kind of a minor one. Frankly, there's

12:27

not a lot of big stuff going on.

12:29

We've already talked about it, so there's no

12:31

reason to go through it

12:33

too, too much. It's

12:38

happening. I'm sorry, I mentioned

12:40

the DMA compliance website. One of the

12:42

things that they mentioned there was that they

12:45

had told European regulators that this moment

12:47

five update would be fully deployed publicly

12:50

by the end of April. So

12:54

right now we're a month off. So we're a month off. Yeah.

12:58

Right. But you'll get it, you know, start getting it

13:00

next, not next Tuesday, the second Tuesday of April, April

13:03

9th, I think. A few more shows of

13:05

talking about moment five. I

13:08

think we're good. You

13:11

know, well, I mean, some of these updates are a big

13:13

deal. Some of the moments have been big deals. Obviously,

13:17

moment four was a huge deal. That was 23-I-Stu,

13:19

right? I mean, so there's been some big stuff.

13:21

This one is, this is not much

13:23

going on here. I mean, it's

13:26

mostly minor. Interestingly, Microsoft

13:28

also released a preview update for

13:30

Windows 10 yesterday. So Week D

13:33

wasn't just for Windows 11. It

13:35

was also for Windows 10. But

13:39

we're not getting more updates to Windows 10, right? Oh,

13:42

security patches? That was so one month ago,

13:45

Richard. So now we are getting more updates.

13:48

And yeah, this was, remember, I think it was

13:50

last week we talked about Microsoft

13:53

started testing additional

13:55

cards on the lock screen, right? There was a

13:57

weather card that they tested for about 10

13:59

seconds. pushed out to stable

14:01

and now they started testing

14:04

sports traffic and finance cards. This

14:07

is just happening. We're not gonna

14:09

screw around with this. It's happening. It's

14:11

happening on Windows 11 as well by

14:13

the way. So as expected as promised

14:15

last week as threatened I guess. They

14:18

are now testing that as well and that will almost certainly

14:20

go out with moment five in stable

14:23

next month. They've added

14:26

Windows Spotlight to the desktop. This is a

14:28

feature Windows 11 has had if not

14:31

forever at least for some time probably

14:33

a couple years. Hopefully it works better in

14:36

Windows 10 and it does in 11. The biggest bit

14:38

of feedback I get about Spotlight is that it never

14:40

seems to sometimes it just stops updating the desktop for

14:42

some reason but it's supposed to give

14:44

you a new Bing desktop wallpaper every day.

14:47

And probably the favorite feature eventually

14:50

for people is an upgrade invitation

14:52

to Windows 11. So if

14:55

you have somehow made it this far and

14:58

running Windows 10 on supported eligible

15:00

hardware. Microsoft would really

15:02

like you to upgrade to Windows 11 and

15:04

they're gonna start being a little more

15:06

aggressive. I'm tormented constantly on one of

15:08

my desktop machines

15:12

that I'm so holding it to end.

15:14

It's weird they don't call it a torment.

15:16

They call it an invitation but I

15:19

guess we have different

15:21

semantic. Yeah, yeah. So,

15:23

potato, potato, almost the

15:25

same really. So

15:27

yeah, Windows 10 is

15:30

a little bit like the desktop version of Outlook, of

15:32

OneNote. Sorry, they told us they were done with it and

15:35

then they weren't. You know, so

15:37

it's back and now they're updating it again and here

15:41

we go. Here we go. So it's still on 22H2.

15:43

They at least stuck to that. 22H2 will be

15:48

the last supported version of Windows 10. They didn't

15:51

change that but they are adding

15:53

new features to it. Most notably obviously

15:55

Copilot, which they did last October

15:58

most likely, November somewhere. that time

16:00

frame. So

16:02

yeah, that's where we're at. All right. Sorry.

16:06

I can't wait

16:08

for the next week, in the next month.

16:10

Who knows what's going to happen next? I'm

16:12

excited. Yeah, exactly. They're going

16:14

to rename Windows 11 to Windows 10, probably. We'll

16:17

see. We

16:19

are eagerly awaiting the first

16:22

Qualcomm X-Elite-based PCs.

16:25

We keep getting more and more indications that

16:27

these things are actually going to be pretty

16:29

damn good, you know, unlike every other Qualcomm

16:31

chip for PCs ever released so far. And

16:34

soon. And soon-ish,

16:36

a couple months, right? Probably

16:38

May, the first PCs.

16:41

And soon. I

16:43

know. Well, we're going to talk a little

16:45

bit about some new Surface PCs and some

16:47

timing stuff, but the, yeah, unfortunately,

16:50

the time frame for the Qualcomm chip set

16:52

is a few months away. I'm

16:54

pretty excited, though, about that. I am, too. I

16:57

am absolutely going to get one

17:02

of these PCs. It

17:04

might be a Surface laptop, we'll see. But

17:06

I've always wanted this

17:09

to make sense. I'm at

17:11

least clear-headed enough to understand it. It never has,

17:13

right? I mean, some people can be a little

17:15

delusional about it. But that's what I

17:17

mean. Talk with the believers. But I don't know.

17:20

I get it. I get wanting

17:22

to believe. I am that person. But it

17:24

is- I read an article today that was

17:26

showing gaming on the Qualcomm on Windows. Yeah,

17:28

that's the thing I don't quite understand. Yeah.

17:30

Yes. So, look, I've

17:34

been playing around with one of Apple's

17:37

M3-based Mac. Pretty

17:39

nice. Yeah. Very

17:41

nice. And I've only played one

17:43

game on it, and it runs

17:46

spectacularly well. But one of

17:48

the goofy things about- A Mac, a native game,

17:50

or a Windows? Yeah, this was from the store.

17:52

It was a Resident Evil game. Yeah,

17:54

it was. It's like I had one

17:56

cassette stuck in the car driving across

17:58

the country. remember what it was.

18:00

What was the game Paul? It was Resident Evil

18:03

something. One of the recently

18:05

remade Resident Evil. They also have Death Stranding

18:08

out. These are all kind of older

18:10

games but they play

18:12

pretty well. They're still playable.

18:14

They're beautiful looking. This

18:17

game is anyway. Metal is good. But

18:20

when you look at Windows games, one

18:22

of the issues with emulation is you

18:24

don't get on Mac, is you don't

18:26

get DirectX 12, which is the modern

18:29

standard. So this is

18:31

one area where Qualcomm

18:33

based hardware might actually be better if you want

18:35

to play games. Not that you would play, not

18:38

that these things are gaming PCs. In fact,

18:40

this first generation of chipsets is very much

18:42

aimed at the ultra book market. These

18:45

are mainstream productivity, long

18:47

mass. But

18:50

yeah, they were talking about how, I'm sorry,

18:54

they, Qualcomm, were at the

18:58

gaming conference, the gaming game

19:00

developers conference that was last week. They had a

19:02

session and they were talking

19:04

about this X64 emulation. And

19:08

there are three levels of compatibility now

19:10

on ARM, on Windows and ARM. There's

19:12

obviously, you could directly port an app.

19:14

If you're a modern app, it's pretty

19:16

easy to target ARM. If

19:18

you have a legacy app, it can

19:20

just be emulated in X64. And then

19:22

they have these kind of interim libraries

19:26

that developers can use to kind of

19:28

bring in some native features to

19:31

what is otherwise an X64 title. And this could

19:33

be an app or a game, right? And

19:37

I guess it's like ARM64EC or whatever.

19:40

It's kind of like a hybrid app. So you look

19:42

at the parts of the application of

19:44

game that aren't running very well and you

19:46

can just that part of it to ARM basically,

19:48

kind of just an interim step. But

19:51

for games in particular, I

19:53

guess what they're

19:55

saying, because the headline that

19:59

games will... run fine on ARM seems

20:01

not to make sense. It doesn't seem

20:03

believable. But what they're saying,

20:05

Qualcomm, is that the performance of the

20:07

GPU is not an issue, right?

20:11

If it runs well on x86

20:13

or an x64 PC with

20:15

whatever that GPU might be and you

20:18

have the same GPU but you're

20:21

running on ARM, it will be fine.

20:24

It will just work fine. Arguably the buck

20:26

feeds are higher. It

20:28

just seems not, it doesn't

20:30

seem right. This

20:33

is a side effect of how good

20:36

the ARM architecture is that it can

20:38

emulate faster than native execution. There's a

20:40

lot of huggly-puggly that goes

20:43

on inside of an Intel processor to

20:45

figure out are you going to go

20:47

main pipeline or speed pipeline, you've got

20:50

long instruction set problems. There's a lot

20:52

of pre-work in every cycle and

20:55

ARM skipped all that because they got

20:57

to start over. They stayed short on

20:59

the instruction sets and so the

21:02

silicon just works more efficiently. In

21:04

many cases, you're

21:07

going to be able to emulate really stunningly

21:09

fast. There are a

21:11

lot more watts, right? It's

21:13

not going to be as efficient as native

21:15

by any stretch of the imagination. I

21:19

could probably have an in-game emulator that ran fine but

21:21

it probably could consume twice as much energy as

21:23

it would have been running native. I'm

21:30

very much hopeful for a variety of reasons. The

21:32

gaming thing, just based on very limited experience on

21:34

a Mac, I was like, you know, this

21:36

is not something I would have thought anyone would

21:39

even bother with on such a computer and actually it

21:41

works fine. Is

21:44

this all just a confidence play? It's just to

21:46

say, listen, these machines are good enough. They can

21:48

do these things even if you don't need to

21:50

do them. What your fear is, is you're

21:53

going to drop a couple of thousand dollars on this

21:56

machine and it's not going to run the stuff you

21:58

need. That's right. Many

22:01

years ago, not dating

22:03

back to Windows RT, I don't think,

22:05

but probably just to the initial discussions

22:08

we had around Windows 10 on

22:10

ARM, back when that was going to be a thing. My

22:13

basic conclusion was that if this platform is successful,

22:15

it will just be boring. It won't be even

22:17

worth it. We don't even know it. You

22:19

can just buy one and you

22:21

will choose a PC based on

22:24

characteristics like battery life

22:26

and performance, not on compatibility,

22:28

right? The problem with ARM

22:30

today has been, well, the performance has been terrible. The

22:33

compatibility, depending on the year, has gone up or

22:35

down, whatever. But

22:37

it hasn't come together as a

22:39

total package. So you immediately notice

22:41

the problems. And again,

22:43

if they can get it right, someone

22:47

who is an average consumer who in

22:50

the past you'd be like, wait, wait, what did you buy? It

22:54

won't matter. For people like us

22:56

who know what we're doing, we

22:58

will specifically seek these things out for

23:00

various reasons. Yeah, and we'll be more

23:03

tolerant of the problems too. But if

23:05

we're happy, we're also prone

23:07

to going first. And if we're happy, that

23:09

encourages others to come along. So

23:13

far we haven't been that happy. But

23:17

the reality is that games can, most

23:19

games are written in C++. Sometimes they

23:21

have .NET involved, but .NET is even easier to make run on ARM.

23:25

The runtime just has an ARM mode. I

23:28

mean, if it's .NET, I'm certainly using Unity and... Yeah.

23:33

It just does cross-platform already,

23:35

so they handle that stuff.

23:39

Well, Paul, once upon a time, that's what

23:41

C was about too. You

23:43

know, in theory, if you've dealt the

23:45

libraries out sufficiently, you should just be

23:47

able to recompile and run on ARM.

23:50

I don't know. Your cynical...

23:53

That's wisdom, right? That's actually correct. The probability

23:55

will actually work. It's going to be all

23:58

the edge cases. Often

24:00

we're calling into APIs that are

24:02

very OS specific. And often those

24:05

OS specific APIs are platform specific.

24:08

You know, the hardware abstraction layer in

24:10

Windows is long gone. It

24:12

left us in 2000s and we've been

24:14

hardware dependent ever since. I

24:17

think that whatever work has occurred on

24:19

ARM for Windows so far, we can

24:23

complain about whatever. But by this

24:25

point, the software side of it is very

24:28

mature and able to observe a lot too. Yeah,

24:31

by all accounts, very well done.

24:33

So we've been basically waiting on

24:35

the silicon. So this looks good. It

24:37

had to get to this point. It had to

24:39

be this fast to be able to overcome the

24:41

inertia of so much code.

24:44

Yep. And all the bad memories that the

24:46

few of us that have spent thousands of

24:48

dollars in these things and were disappointed can

24:51

get over it, right? So this is just

24:53

the latest in a long

24:55

list of indications that this thing is going

24:57

to be where it

25:00

needs to be. And actually, arguably,

25:02

the best one just happened as

25:04

well. Google announced yesterday that Chrome

25:06

is coming to Windows and ARM

25:08

in a native version in stable starting,

25:11

I think, next month. It's available now, I

25:13

think, in the beta channel. Wow. That

25:16

really just means they built the pipeline to deploy ARM.

25:19

I think that did probably. Yeah, but

25:21

this is also a chicken egg thing, right? I mean,

25:23

how do you get

25:26

Google? By all accounts, does not

25:28

give a crap about Microsoft or Windows to

25:31

pay attention to something like this that is absolutely

25:34

a niche platform. You have an interesting,

25:36

adjacent story that when I saw these

25:38

two stories together, I thought, this is

25:40

tit for tat. OK.

25:44

Right? Microsoft pushing through that

25:46

work on the text rendering

25:49

and people agreeing to it. They

25:52

did some heavy lifting for Chromium. I

25:56

don't remember the year anymore, but when Microsoft

25:59

adopted Chromium. for Edge and made

26:01

that big shift. One

26:04

of their big publicly stated goals is that we're

26:06

going to commit things back to this and we're

26:08

going to improve all web browsers on Windows. And

26:10

that sounds very altruistic, you know, but the

26:13

idea here is that we

26:15

can contribute to this as well. And

26:17

they have. I mean, this is one

26:19

of several high profile things that they've...

26:22

I mean, that team had been collaborating over

26:24

the rendering engines the

26:27

whole time, right? The bad guy here

26:29

with Apple, it wasn't, you

26:31

know, generally Microsoft and Chrome and

26:33

well, I mean, we used to

26:35

have the four major rendering

26:38

engines and I guess we have three or

26:40

two and a half depending on how you

26:42

fill up. Well, and you can argue about

26:44

how wise it is for everybody consolidate on

26:46

Chromium, but rendering is just

26:48

not that interesting an equation. You were

26:50

hoping that the digital effluent side of

26:53

the browser would change, but

26:55

that didn't happen either. Well, unfortunately,

26:57

that's where browser makers are innovating,

26:59

Richard. So the effluent is excellent.

27:04

Yeah, it's

27:06

top of mind. Yeah, no.

27:09

So what we're alluding to there, sorry, I skipped

27:11

over that, was that Chromium

27:14

announced and you can see the

27:17

sheer number of commits

27:20

that Microsoft tried to make over a long

27:22

period of time. They're going to implement

27:24

a Microsoft text rendering technology

27:26

that's based on what they

27:28

do at Microsoft in Edge using

27:31

ClearType. Chromium

27:33

and Chrome and all Chrome

27:35

based browsers, I believe, use a text renderer

27:37

called Skia. And so the

27:40

way this is described is that

27:42

Skia to date has been ignoring

27:44

the configurations that users make in

27:46

their PCs for ClearType, which frankly, most

27:48

people don't make, but whatever

27:51

it happens for you. And

27:54

in Edge, of course, that is

27:56

automatic. It grabs all the ClearType stuff. So

27:58

Chromium is not switched. to the Microsoft

28:01

Edge text rendering engine, but they're

28:03

still using Skia, but they are improving

28:06

Skia on Windows to respect

28:09

the ClearType configuration. So it's

28:12

easing that code base as close as they're

28:14

gonna get. And this must be very good,

28:16

but we shall see,

28:19

because that's coming out. That's also

28:21

happening if I'm not mistaken in

28:23

April, when I think it's Chrome,

28:25

Chromium and Chrome 124 go

28:27

live in stable. So it's happening,

28:30

cool. Yeah. Co-op

28:32

position, still happening happily.

28:42

All right, so last week, Mike

28:45

and I originally planned to cover the

28:50

Microsoft AI at work event live.

28:53

Yeah. And then I was

28:56

briefed on what that was going to entail.

28:59

And then I contacted him and said, forget

29:01

about it. I don't know. It

29:03

doesn't seem like it's worth

29:06

doing. Now here's the issue. It's not that there

29:08

wasn't anything interesting announced.

29:11

Oh no, I'm sorry, that is what it was. So the

29:13

problem is, the problem is

29:15

they had this kind of AI work event, which they've

29:17

done in the past. Remember that we were, I

29:20

had gone to one in September in New York. When

29:23

I looked over the video, they

29:27

eventually went public and the materials and

29:29

everything. It was very clear that

29:32

on, despite the fact that they talked

29:34

about Windows 11, Windows 365,

29:36

Co-pilot and Microsoft 365, there

29:40

was not an iota of

29:42

news there, like not one new item. Wow.

29:45

There were some new surface PCs announced, but only

29:47

for business, which we'll get to in a

29:50

moment. And I had a weird

29:52

kind of PTSD flashback. Back

29:55

in the day, by which I mean the very early 2000s and

29:57

beyond. Microsoft

30:00

used to release software in

30:02

a very kind of, what

30:05

we would now think of as like

30:07

lengthy schedule, right? So a new version of Windows might

30:09

come out every three to five years or whatever. And

30:12

the problem was for Microsoft that you

30:14

would get these big bang sales

30:17

things occurring at those times and then

30:19

things would slow down and there

30:21

was nothing to talk about in between. And

30:24

so when Microsoft was about halfway between a

30:26

release of Windows or Windows Server or Office,

30:29

they would go out and beat the PR drum in

30:32

what they used to call, they would have momentum

30:34

updates. And I

30:38

started like, to me like the

30:40

word momentum is actually triggering to this day. Like

30:42

I still, it still makes me like

30:45

feel, it's like weird. Like you would sit in

30:47

a meeting for 45 minutes in

30:49

person back then, right? Before all of

30:51

a sudden you realized, wait a minute,

30:55

they don't have anything, they don't have anything to discuss. They're

30:57

just talking about how successful the thing they

30:59

did two years ago is, right? And

31:01

those things were called momentum meetings. And I

31:03

was at a tech ed with a coworker.

31:06

We were sitting outside of a meeting room

31:08

waiting for the previous meeting to

31:11

end. And I looked at this guy I was sitting

31:13

next to and I said, if this guy says the

31:15

word momentum, I'm gonna slowly close my

31:17

laptop and I'm gonna beat him to death with

31:19

it. And

31:22

he opened the door and he said, Paul, sorry if you keep

31:24

waiting. I'm really excited to talk to

31:26

you about Windows Server momentum. And we

31:29

just both lost it. Like I'm gonna be kidding.

31:32

That's what this thing is. Anyway,

31:34

that's what that event was. It

31:36

was momentum. And it was presented

31:39

as if no one had ever

31:41

heard of CoPilot, how it has

31:43

improved Windows, Microsoft 365, whatever

31:45

features are in Windows 11, which aren't

31:48

much. It was presented as

31:50

if it were new. So

31:53

that part was not

31:55

particularly interesting, I don't think to a lot of people.

31:57

It wasn't embarrassing. It wasn't like pano.

32:00

been a at build last

32:02

year, but it was it was off like it

32:04

felt weird. The other component,

32:07

the bigger component to this was the

32:09

surface stuff and slightly undercut

32:11

by the fact that these are for

32:13

businesses and are hard to buy as

32:15

if you're an individual you

32:18

can do it. I mean you can. In

32:20

fact you can buy them direct from Microsoft if you

32:22

want to, but you really have to go through some

32:24

contortions of navigation to get to that point. And

32:28

you know we're in a weird place too in

32:30

the release cycle because Intel announced their core

32:33

Ultra chipsets, well I'm sorry they announced them last

32:35

year sometime, but they released them

32:38

in December. There were some new

32:40

PCs available then. More came

32:42

out at CES along

32:45

with non-Ultra Intel Core 13th

32:47

generation based PCs that don't

32:50

have MPUs. And then

32:52

we know we've been told that next fall they'll

32:54

go back on a normal release schedule Intel and

32:56

this will be the way it was. But

32:59

right now we're on this kind of weird

33:01

cycle and in that cycle Microsoft and Surface

33:03

are once again kind of late to the

33:06

game in a way right. If you think

33:08

about it from a December to September schedule,

33:11

March they announced this stuff. It's like guys everyone

33:13

else already did this. So it's good

33:15

we have a new Surface Pro 10 and a Surface

33:18

laptop 6. Intel Core

33:21

Ultra chipsets which are okay right.

33:23

I don't think they're not setting

33:25

any records for anything but they do have

33:28

MPUs. And these

33:31

are the right Surface computers in some ways right.

33:33

These are the mainstream ones right. Surface Pro that's

33:36

been a successful form factor for them and Surface

33:38

laptop obviously. We can't actually buy these yet right.

33:40

Like the website still doesn't have them on there.

33:42

It's still the 9 and the 5. I want

33:44

my call by the key. I thought you could

33:46

buy them. I'm not really sure. Okay I don't

33:49

remember. I see these announcements and I'm like where?

33:51

Where? I'm looking

33:55

past. So they're yeah they're gonna be sold through

33:57

the channel mostly but I believe if you go to

33:59

surface.com you can where's

34:01

the copilot in there gonna be just

34:03

have a curiosity where the where's

34:05

it gonna be yeah so

34:08

whatever that what was it called

34:10

that context menu key yeah that

34:12

used to be between alt and control and the

34:14

right side of the keyboard old menu key yeah

34:16

yeah any key if you just like take a

34:19

screwdriver and dig that thing right out of there

34:21

save your menu keys folks so you can replace

34:23

the pilot key yeah the copilot

34:25

is important unfortunately well so I it's I'm

34:35

always fascinated to watch how other people in

34:37

my industry report on things that I'm also

34:40

reporting on right and sometimes there

34:42

are big differences so I

34:44

saw headlines that claim these were Microsoft's first

34:46

AI PCs no

34:48

that's true that's not true yeah

34:50

like Richard oh I know that

34:52

though right well I could

34:55

actually explain it now but he owns

34:57

a surface laptop studio or surface studio

34:59

left surface studio to laptop laptop right

35:01

which has an MPU in it right

35:03

it's an Intel chipset and an MPU

35:05

that was the first that was the

35:07

real facet well okay but then we

35:09

can go back in time to surface

35:11

Pro X yeah which was

35:13

the Qualcomm unit as well

35:15

and they've had a couple of gens of that so

35:18

what do you huh what what's

35:20

going on well as it turns out Microsoft

35:22

has first of all Microsoft

35:25

did not describe this as their first AI PCs

35:27

they've described them as their first business

35:29

or AI PCs for business but

35:32

it to Microsoft and the AI PC is

35:34

a computer

35:37

that has an MPU and

35:40

copilot key on the keyboard that's literally their

35:44

what is missing on his computer is he doesn't have

35:46

a copilot how you gonna look

35:49

Richard I gotta return this machine is not I don't

35:51

even know how you live with yourself I don't know

35:53

I'm in agony you hide it behind

35:55

a wall and use it with an external keyboard like I don't even

35:57

know how you do it so I don't know It's

36:00

horrible. So where

36:02

are these on the Surface page? Where are

36:04

they? Right. Where

36:06

would I find these? Brand new, copilot

36:08

keyed, NPU based,

36:11

fine machine. I believe the way to get these

36:13

is actually to go to the Microsoft store. But

36:15

let's look. The computer's we can go to. Well,

36:18

I can go to the store. The store. It's

36:20

okay. We can go to Surface

36:22

Lab. They're not there. What's going on? They're actually gone.

36:24

I found these on the store. What is happening?

36:27

They're literally not there. That is hilarious. Why?

36:31

Oh, computers for business. That's why. Nope,

36:34

they're not there either. I

36:36

have found them here. Somewhere

36:38

inside here. That's crazy. Meet the

36:41

new AI. Here we go.

36:43

I'm sorry. microsoft.com/Surface slash business.

36:46

Okay. Surface Pro details, Surface

36:48

Laptop 6 details. And

36:50

that's a PDF file. I think they've changed the

36:53

site. I literally clicked through to this. They stopped

36:55

all visiting. Meet the

36:57

new AI PC. That's amazing. Is there a

36:59

copilot key on this sucker? Yeah,

37:02

there are copilot keys. Why there it is.

37:05

Because when you search for resellers, one of

37:07

the resellers that comes up is Microsoft. And

37:10

you click through to that and then you get to... Yeah,

37:12

here we go. Surface Pro. All

37:14

right. So it's really hard. Like I said, I told you

37:17

it was hard to find. So doing this live was maybe a mistake. It

37:19

is pre-order, so they're not available yet. But you

37:21

can pre-order. And they are available

37:24

in a bunch of different configurations. And

37:26

it's really hard to... I don't know if you found it or

37:28

not, but I could probably step

37:30

you through if you were on the platform. No, no, I'm

37:32

looking at it, right? All right. Okay. Yeah,

37:35

this is a 9, but... What you want to... No, no, no, no.

37:38

If you want to get to the 10 and then... But it said introducing the

37:40

new AI PC. Oh, there it is. Surface Pro 10. There

37:42

we go. Whoops. But it's a

37:44

PDF? That was a PDF. No, no, that's the right

37:47

thing. You just watched the video. Unlock

37:49

a new era of productivity. The way

37:51

to do it is to

37:53

find the... Oh, I... These haircuts are terrible.

37:55

I don't know what's going on. All right.

37:58

I see the compiler key. So

38:01

one of the reasons I'm not crazy about this is

38:04

because I use Linux. Yeah.

38:06

I thought you were going to say it's because I

38:08

have a brain in my head and I know that

38:10

this key doesn't make it any better or faster. I

38:13

don't want a compiler key. I got it anyway,

38:15

right? I just know how to get it to

38:17

go by. We could find

38:19

a way to make this work without a compiler key. It's branding.

38:21

It's like putting Intel inside a sticker. Oh,

38:24

what's that? Oh, those

38:26

are adaptive technologies. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. It's

38:29

like having a sticker. I like the adaptive Atari 2600 joystick. Yeah,

38:32

that's pretty funny, isn't it? Hey, it's

38:34

a classic. Anyway, you can pre-order them

38:36

now. It's very hard to find as

38:38

we just demonstrated, but it is there.

38:41

You have to go to the place where it

38:43

says find a reseller and then you select Microsoft

38:45

and that gives you the Microsoft website.

38:47

You can actually pre-order. I like that. I

38:50

like that. This is all part of the

38:52

Qualcomm Elite, right? That's the whole key. No.

38:55

What's that? No, these are Intel. So that's

38:57

the issue. So Microsoft

38:59

has long been rumored to

39:02

be coming up with updates to these

39:04

devices in both Qualcomm and Intel

39:06

forms, right? So the Intel forms are available

39:08

now, soon, I guess, for

39:11

businesses. And look, and then you

39:13

get another indication that Microsoft believes that these things

39:15

are going to make sense for individuals.

39:19

They're actually going to ship the consumer versions

39:21

just with the Qualcomm chips. So it's apparently,

39:23

they haven't announced that, but that's the story.

39:25

So the business will be Intel. It's

39:28

the mullet of computers. Intel

39:30

in the front and Qualcomm in

39:32

the back. Qualcomm in the back.

39:36

I get it. Which part is the

39:38

part? I don't even know. Interestingly, we

39:40

learned of Microsoft's definition of an

39:42

AI PC from Intel, which

39:45

has its own definition, which has nothing to do

39:47

with Microsoft. Other than the fact that Intel too

39:49

would like you to use an Intel class or

39:51

an Intel CPU with an MP,

39:53

which today is the only generation we

39:56

have of Intel Core

39:58

Ultra chips. That's right. That's what we have. So,

40:01

I don't know. Intel

40:04

being a kind of a hardware maker

40:06

is talking about more technical details. They

40:08

want the MPU to hit a certain,

40:10

you know, tops value, which is one

40:12

of those benchmarks used to measure the

40:14

performance of an MPU that will probably

40:17

be out of date in about 10 seconds and, you

40:19

know, yada, yada, yada, whatever. But

40:23

there you go. MPU, co-pilot

40:26

and the new co-pilot key. Ooh. Here's

40:30

a, this, I don't know that this event started

40:32

out being broken. Yeah,

40:34

I, I wondered. I know I wondered the same thing. I'm

40:37

wondering if the moves happening on the consumer

40:39

AI side broke it. Here's,

40:42

here's my only concern

40:44

with that. This

40:46

was not a live event. They

40:49

could have not announced it and pushed it

40:51

back. Right. You know, there

40:54

was no. The only thing that tied

40:56

it to anything was right at the

40:58

beginning of the pre-canned, you know, recorded

41:00

presentation. They said one

41:03

year ago we announced co-pilot,

41:05

which of course was called Bing Chat one

41:07

year ago, but yeah, okay. Or

41:09

oh, no, no, no, sorry. We announced co-pilot

41:11

for Microsoft 365, which one year ago is

41:14

called Microsoft 365 co-pilot. So

41:16

it was kind of tied to that. I guess this was the

41:19

alleged milestone that necessitated this

41:22

event, but I don't

41:25

know. Look, I

41:27

think Surface has enough cache and enough

41:29

interest, even in our kind of jaded

41:32

tech media world today, that

41:34

if they had announced a Surface event, people

41:37

would have paid attention. Right. As

41:40

many people would have watched this thing. It's

41:42

still interesting. A little bit of a downer that

41:44

these things are not available easily for

41:47

consumers. And it doesn't

41:49

make a heck of a lot of sense to me, but

41:51

okay. And

41:53

I think just reiterating the same old stuff

41:56

that everybody should already know about Windows 365

41:58

co-pilot Microsoft

42:00

365 was kind of a,

42:03

I think they may have pushed us

42:05

over to business because they are revamping

42:08

their consumer AI play. And

42:10

so this was a way to tuck that out

42:12

of the way so they don't step on the

42:15

new folks coming in. Okay. So

42:18

I was, if you did not touch on that, I was

42:20

going to say, I'm surprised you didn't say Richard, but you

42:22

did say it. Microsoft

42:25

last week announced what

42:28

by all accounts is a reorg and

42:30

now because of more recent news, we

42:32

know this was in fact a reorg and

42:34

we'll talk about this a little bit later. Well, we'll talk about it

42:37

right now actually. If

42:41

you looked at the leaked

42:43

memo from Rajesh Jha and

42:45

any of the news stories

42:47

about this Microsoft AI event

42:49

from last week, you

42:51

would have come, well, I came away as the Windows guy.

42:54

My takeaway was, okay, but

42:56

what about Windows? It was like

42:58

the one part of this that wasn't part of

43:01

any of the messaging. There's

43:04

a team that is responsible for

43:06

things like, but not

43:09

only Bing and Edge and advertising

43:11

and all that horrible online stuff

43:13

that nobody likes to think about,

43:16

but also Co-pilot that

43:18

was moved into Microsoft AI, which is

43:20

being led by people from outside of

43:22

Microsoft. Now, we'll

43:25

be like, this is the real. Okay.

43:29

But it's, and there was some uncertainties

43:31

in here around such people as like

43:35

Kevin Scott, the guy who put together

43:37

OpenAI and Microsoft and it's

43:40

like, oh no, don't worry. You're

43:42

still the AI guy. But

43:45

some of this felt weird to me. So

43:49

the guy who was in charge of

43:51

that team, Bing, Edge, Co-pilot, et cetera,

43:54

said, yeah, no, I'm not doing this. He

43:56

literally, he said, no, I'm not, I'm

43:59

not. moving under this new team and

44:01

I will not work for this man. And

44:04

it's not clear today whether that means he's leaving the

44:06

company or he's looking for a job somewhere else at

44:08

Microsoft. The claim is that he's going to try to

44:10

find a new role at Microsoft. But

44:12

I feel like any second now we're going to find out

44:14

that this guy's left. And

44:17

I'm surprised there isn't more pushback like this,

44:19

right? I disagree. I think

44:22

Microsoft knows what they're doing in the enterprise.

44:24

I think M365 Co-Pilot is a hit. And

44:27

it's big. And I think Satya

44:31

is unhappy with the consumer adoption. And

44:34

everything they were doing was not working. And he doesn't

44:36

know what to do, but it wasn't what they were

44:38

doing. So he is literally

44:41

shaking that sketch. Okay.

44:43

I don't think he needs to bring it over.

44:46

Nobody from the outside of Microsoft needs to tell

44:48

anyone at Microsoft that Bing is a horrible brand.

44:51

And is the Achilles heel of this entire endeavor?

44:54

Well, I think you know, remember, Satya comes from Bing

44:56

too. So he's got his own issues there. And

44:59

the opportunity to grab Suleiman,

45:02

these two guys, the DeepMind

45:04

guys, get them. That's a

45:06

score. You know, there's a

45:08

dozen people in the world at this

45:10

caliber for AI. And

45:13

I'm just saying, there are all these guys

45:15

at Microsoft who are qualified and have years

45:17

and years of experience. And I

45:19

have to think a lot of them are like, we're no longer

45:21

doing it. I don't know. We'll

45:23

see. But like I said, my take on this

45:26

is just, but it's also the way that

45:28

he organized it, that he very much isolated it from the

45:30

rest of the company. I think

45:32

he's just looking at that. So, hold

45:34

on. I mean, first of

45:36

all, sorry, my opening point here was

45:38

that at the time of the announcement,

45:40

big chunks of what

45:43

I think of as their kind of consumer facing front

45:45

end stuff went into this group,

45:48

but not Windows, or at least

45:50

not explicitly. So

45:52

now that this guy has left and

45:55

Rajesh Shah, who's basically in

45:57

charge of Microsoft 365. we'll

46:00

call it, revealed

46:03

more details in a memo that

46:05

has been leaked. And so we

46:07

finally realized that what's happened to

46:09

Windows is almost nothing,

46:11

right? It's basically the same as

46:13

it was before. Windows

46:16

and Surface are together again or still, I guess

46:18

maybe is the right way to look at that.

46:21

But we have this, we

46:25

have this weird, they use this term

46:27

internally, partnering, right? So

46:29

when the Microsoft AI

46:32

organization was announced at that

46:35

time, Rajesh, Ja

46:37

and his organization were going to

46:39

partner with Microsoft AI on

46:41

the AI things that would bleed into

46:44

his products, meaning Microsoft 365,

46:47

Copilot, Windows 11, Copilot,

46:49

but also presumably some of those

46:52

AI experiences we get in Paint and Photos and

46:54

elsewhere, that kind of thing. Microsoft

46:56

Edge, right? Which is not just Windows,

46:59

but has its own kind of Copilot-y

47:01

stuff going on. So

47:03

there's a whole kind of list of stuff

47:09

that I guess just has more

47:11

clarity now, but I don't really feel that,

47:14

I guess what I'm saying is Windows was

47:16

an unknown quantity when this announcement was made

47:18

and a week later it's like, okay, now

47:20

we know what's happening. And it's not, nothing

47:23

has changed basically. So

47:26

we'll see, we'll see what happens with this man. Varuna

47:30

mentioned in the chat there about Sacha saying,

47:33

and I went and found the real quote

47:35

where Sacha said, we want to move people

47:37

from needing Windows to choosing Windows to loving

47:39

Windows. If

47:42

I'm not saying so, well that was in 2015. To

47:45

holding Windows hostage until

47:47

it falls in love with you. Yeah,

47:51

I took great exception to that quote when he made

47:53

it. I wrote an editorial about it at the time.

47:55

And if you look at the events that have occurred

47:57

since then, nobody followed that.

48:00

No. As a rule of any

48:02

kind, they've done everything they can to make people happy. 2015,

48:05

he was a year and a half into being CEO

48:07

in the love period

48:09

and it's before the AI

48:11

bomb went off and you don't have to

48:13

love us. I buy it. And now we

48:16

know Dark Sacha has appeared. Dark

48:18

Sacha. Oh,

48:21

we'd be, look at the moves he's made the

48:23

past year and a half. Was this by far?

48:25

Oh no, I've done a complete 180 on him

48:27

because of the last year. Yeah. Yep.

48:31

Yep. From positive, negative to positive.

48:35

That might be the wrong way to even think of it. I

48:37

thought of Microsoft as being unique among

48:40

big tech companies in having what I'll,

48:42

for lack of a better term, I'll

48:44

call the ethical high road,

48:46

the ethical, they were going to be the kinder,

48:48

gentler tech giant. Yes. And

48:51

I, it's very obvious now that that

48:53

is just a tech giant. Just marketing

48:55

and I fell for that and I'm stupid for

48:58

it. I think an element of this is what

49:00

was going on inside of the company, which was,

49:02

Sacha very much was like, we're all going to

49:04

play and work together or people are going to

49:07

get fired. And you

49:09

know, his one Microsoft mantra was an

49:11

internal mantra primarily, which

49:13

by the way, largely worked like you

49:15

do not get promoted at Microsoft. If

49:17

you don't pass a cross team 365

49:19

eval, right? At

49:22

certain levels. Yeah. I'm

49:25

just assuming literally the term partnering, which I

49:27

think is so important to

49:29

Microsoft's legacy and history. And

49:33

it seemed like under such a

49:35

Nadella that this tradition would continue

49:37

into this kind of way at the time we thought of

49:39

as the cloud era. And

49:41

this was a company, you know, I've talked about

49:43

this a lot with, you know, Google and Microsoft

49:45

specifically how these two companies should

49:48

be partnering more and not at each other's

49:50

throats. I feel

49:52

like a lot of the antagonism comes

49:54

from Google, frankly, Microsoft. But then again,

49:56

Microsoft has been pretty aggressive anti Google

49:58

in the epic. trial and elsewhere

50:01

trying to change the way app stores work and all that kind

50:03

of stuff. So there's a lot of animosity

50:05

on both sides. But yeah, you're right. The past year

50:07

and a half, I guess we'll call it, we've

50:11

seen, well, this company didn't have

50:13

a heartbeat. I, you know, The argument

50:15

would be he's now gotten the company in alignment and

50:17

now he's taking it for a ride. And

50:20

this is his big win. And that

50:23

would be an honor. I can't

50:25

look, I can't argue with the fact that

50:27

it appears to

50:29

be working. Yeah. Right. And

50:32

what I mean by that is, or

50:34

a publicly owned shareholder driven company like

50:36

Microsoft. You're a shareholder, you're awfully happy.

50:39

Yep. And my complaints about

50:41

the certification of Windows would not be

50:43

of much interest to those people. Yeah,

50:46

I was like, yeah, but look at the stock price. I

50:48

mean, this is doing something right. What

50:50

is the path to de-certifying

50:52

Windows is to bring in

50:55

external forces that are not mired in all of

50:57

that and get, and allow a

50:59

rethink of it under the context of, well, except

51:01

that is the most important thing. But Windows is

51:03

the one thing that's not under that company, under

51:05

that organization. That's the problem. The guy running Windows

51:08

now, who I happen to like, by the way,

51:10

is a nice guy, spend there for

51:12

a long, long time. Um,

51:14

I don't know. I

51:16

don't know. I always have hope, but it's what

51:19

it takes. It's what it's going to take. Like

51:21

you really, I'm

51:23

excited the prospect of separating enterprise

51:26

windows from consumer windows. Oh

51:28

my God. Yes. This has

51:30

been the dream for a long, long time. I, this is another

51:32

conversation we would have had, I mean, probably 20 years ago, which

51:34

is look, all that matters

51:36

is the app model. They can look

51:38

completely differently. Yeah. Why don't

51:41

they? There's an argument for Windows 10

51:43

enterprise alone. Just do security patches. The

51:45

enterprise is going to use M365, copilot

51:47

anyway. So don't worry about that. Now

51:50

go rampant on an, on a

51:52

consumer version of windows. It's different

51:54

and approach and it needs to

51:56

approach large language

51:58

models differently. consumers because

52:01

they got sitting on the idea of

52:03

a pile of enterprise

52:05

data that needs to be utilized effectively. That's

52:08

a very different proposal from taking that kind

52:10

of similar tool and applying it to your

52:12

life. I was

52:14

just talking to some folks who were saying you know

52:17

everyone's so

52:19

excited about getting all their data into co-pilot

52:23

because you know that will be the finite

52:25

set of data that we know that you

52:28

know co-pilot and other AIs work well. Remember

52:30

we were so excited to put all our

52:32

data into social media and that went really

52:34

well. Right well but the point that these

52:36

people made to me was that I don't

52:38

know like I can't speak for every company

52:40

in earth but this you know our data

52:42

is garbage. I mean why would I want

52:45

to feed this thing our data?

52:47

I mean we have a data information.

52:49

I'm telling you I'm at a conference

52:51

right now with thousands of people who's

52:53

one of their key responsibilities will be

52:56

on the Microsoft AI path

52:58

to get your data a

53:00

state in order. Right that is

53:02

the tag line. I'm sorry but the

53:04

speaking of tags what you're describing is almost

53:06

metadata right. It's like if we could

53:08

just clean up this data we can search

53:11

it and we could find things. It's gonna

53:13

go see it goes along with yes the

53:15

system is secure and yes the check is

53:17

in the mail like it's all the

53:19

same you're never gonna get there it's a

53:21

journey. It's a you know

53:24

but everybody see every CIO's fear right

53:26

now is do fold. I'm gonna miss

53:28

the AI wave or I'm going

53:30

to jump on the AI wave and blow this

53:32

company apart. Yeah so

53:34

you know you're trying to skinny down the middle

53:36

of that line. This is a scary

53:39

take on the red pill blue pill dilemma.

53:41

It's like I mean we'll see.

53:47

Let's take a little time out to

53:49

enjoy the AI that refreshes and when

53:51

we return a little

53:54

bit more burst of AI in my mouth.

54:00

This good AI. It's got AI inside.

54:03

Wow. I'm

54:05

going to do this as an actual

54:07

human reading a commercial.

54:09

How about that? I love it. That's

54:11

the AI prompt I'm using. Respond

54:15

as if you were a human reading a

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57:08

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57:16

You're watching Paul Thorott, Richard

57:18

Campbell, Windows

57:21

Weekly, Paul

57:23

and his ensconced back in

57:25

PA with his with his

57:27

Lego R2-D2, which is really

57:29

cool looking. It has a

57:31

little removable lightsaber. It's

57:34

you know, like it shoots out like in Return of the

57:36

Jedi. Wow. Nice. Did

57:38

you, did she build that over the holiday or something?

57:41

And yes, she did. Wow. You gotta

57:43

do something when you're stuck at home. I said I can't

57:45

believe you built this yourself. And she said,

57:47

I knew if I gave it to you on built, you would

57:49

have thought of it as more of a punishment than I

57:51

did. So true. So

57:55

true. That's right. You've given me like

57:57

something to do for some reason. Thank

57:59

you. I almost, I was almost

58:01

gonna name this show momentum just to bug

58:03

you. But

58:06

it's, it's, I, we could go back

58:08

and look, I wouldn't be surprised if this would come up in

58:10

the past. We might have used it. Yeah, we might have used

58:12

it. So I'm gonna call it Dark Satya. Yeah.

58:14

You gotta get like the red eyes on

58:17

the... Yeah. You know. Now

58:19

I, I think the first appearance of Dark

58:21

Satya was, um, the Santa Malpman

58:23

firing. Oh. Yes.

58:26

Well we don't know, but, and

58:29

I, I'm sure somebody's ready though.

58:31

By all accounts. Gee, Pascal Zachary's

58:33

gotta be working on this book,

58:35

right? Uh, Satya Nadella

58:37

sitting in his morning coffee, reads the headlines in

58:39

the newspaper, rushes to the phone and says... First

58:41

of all, first of all, you know it's morning

58:44

tea and he's, he's reading the cricket scores. Right.

58:47

Yes. Between the cricket

58:49

scores, Stan Almond's fired. He's like, he got the actual paper

58:51

and he's like, don't tell me what happened. Everyone else is

58:53

like, no one knows what happened. Cricket, we don't know. We,

58:55

how do you even know who's won in cricket?

58:58

You know. Three days went by, everybody's asleep.

59:00

Yeah. Yeah. Richard,

59:03

you probably know how to play cricket because you're a New Zealander.

59:06

I'm a really Canadian and we all stare at

59:08

cricket sideways like the rest of us. I'm generally

59:11

only learning cricket rules while drinking heavily, which means

59:13

when I wake up... You

59:15

don't remember a thing. All

59:19

right, what's next? I've lost track. Are we going

59:22

to talk about AI and Microsoft Teams? We

59:24

sure are. How exciting. Let's say we taste

59:26

it, go together. Yeah.

59:29

So, the other day, look, again,

59:32

momentum, right? You know, Microsoft

59:34

is saying that Microsoft

59:37

365 Copile is saving 11 minutes a

59:39

day per user

59:42

over 11 weeks is a million something,

59:45

somethings and whatever. Anyway,

59:48

obviously, they are going

59:50

to be bringing more AI capabilities to

59:52

Teams. These are the two big pushes

59:54

at Microsoft 365 right now. So you

59:57

get Copilot in a meeting chat. to

1:00:00

chat with other people, you'll be able to interact

1:00:03

with Co-Pilot and get summaries, et

1:00:05

cetera, et cetera, during and

1:00:07

after the meeting in

1:00:09

the compose box, right, where you need help writing, just

1:00:11

like you can get it today in Word or wherever

1:00:14

else. Intelligent call

1:00:16

recap. Honestly, this is all 100% obvious,

1:00:19

every one of these things. Automatic

1:00:22

camera switching. It's just

1:00:25

like, okay, for Teams rooms, right? That

1:00:27

makes some sense. In other words, it's

1:00:29

not you with one system switching cameras,

1:00:31

it's a Teams room where someone

1:00:33

speaks up and that person's in frame, et cetera, et

1:00:36

cetera. We already have stuff like this, but AI

1:00:38

makes everything better or something like that. So

1:00:41

the translating summary is

1:00:43

the thing. Yep.

1:00:47

And the best part about it is that every

1:00:49

time you've ever had a secretary,

1:00:51

or a secretary, I mean the role,

1:00:53

not a person per se, but somebody

1:00:55

who's doing the notes for a meeting,

1:00:58

you didn't like the set of notes. You went

1:01:00

after the person, right? It was an instant ad

1:01:02

hominem attack of, you know, you

1:01:04

can use it over at this meeting. Now

1:01:06

we have software to yell at. That's miles

1:01:08

better. It's not going to

1:01:10

be an HR call out of it. It's perfect. Yes,

1:01:14

here we go. So I had a Teams

1:01:16

meeting recently with a partner,

1:01:19

I'll call them. And let me maybe

1:01:21

put this in kind of a dark mode. I don't know

1:01:23

why this is so bright, but you

1:01:25

are illuminating. Yeah, I know. I like how

1:01:27

he glows when he's looking at it. Anyway,

1:01:30

that's not going to work. Anyway, they

1:01:33

sent me by email, the

1:01:36

summary of the meeting generated by Teams,

1:01:39

right? And it's interesting on

1:01:41

many levels, but let me see if I can find, yes, it

1:01:44

says, Paul

1:01:47

suggested going to a shooting range instead of

1:01:49

an ax throwing place. Good on you, Paul.

1:01:52

I want to

1:01:55

be super clear about this. I have

1:01:57

never once in my life recommended such a thing.

1:02:00

I don't know. You know, we'll get

1:02:02

there maybe. This

1:02:10

is the summary of the meeting. Yeah,

1:02:14

the summary. It's one of, it's a

1:02:16

surprisingly long summary and I actually missed it when

1:02:18

I read it and someone else pointed it out

1:02:20

later and I was like, come on. I

1:02:24

said that? I didn't say that. So anyway,

1:02:26

it doesn't matter. I said what? But you

1:02:28

know, now AI is like pointing a finger

1:02:30

at me like what Paul said. Oh no,

1:02:33

not a trial here. Paul said. Wow.

1:02:36

Exactly right. The ultimate you said. You

1:02:39

said. Wow.

1:02:42

Anyway, one thing that's come up

1:02:44

a bunch recently and Leo, you might have missed out

1:02:46

on this little bit of excitement, but there's

1:02:48

a grid of AI capabilities across

1:02:51

CoPilot and you've got, you can look at

1:02:53

it like the, here are the capabilities listed

1:02:55

on one side and here are all the

1:02:57

places you can get CoPilot and just as

1:02:59

was the case with Microsoft 365

1:03:01

features over several year period,

1:03:04

Microsoft will announce a new feature for something and

1:03:07

it will plug into one of the places, but

1:03:09

not all of them. So get out your bingo

1:03:11

board because we got two more little pegs to

1:03:13

put in this grid. Designer,

1:03:16

which is the new name for what

1:03:18

used to be Bing image creator and

1:03:21

CoPilot Pro, sorry,

1:03:23

not CoPilot. CoPilot Pro

1:03:26

is the consumer subscription that is

1:03:28

sort of almost exactly CoPilot for

1:03:30

Microsoft 365, but for individuals are

1:03:33

both coming to the Microsoft 365

1:03:35

mobile app. So if you have Microsoft 365

1:03:37

on your iPhone or Android

1:03:39

today, you will have seen that CoPilot is front

1:03:41

and center in that thing now baby, because of

1:03:44

course it is. And in

1:03:46

the same way that you can access,

1:03:48

I think it's Word, PowerPoint and Excel

1:03:50

functionality without having to install separate apps,

1:03:53

you're going to be able to do designer

1:03:56

image creation and CoPilot Pro

1:03:58

capabilities in this app which is interesting

1:04:01

because it literally means in

1:04:03

some cases that some of those

1:04:05

app-specific functions like we get in

1:04:07

say like Word which like text

1:04:09

generation will be available in the

1:04:11

I'm making this one up I'm actually not sure

1:04:13

if this is one of them but in the

1:04:15

Word component of the Microsoft 365 mobile app right

1:04:18

not just in the standalone Windows

1:04:20

Word mobile app I'm surprised I can even

1:04:23

keep this sort of straight anyway it's

1:04:26

confusing so these

1:04:28

will both happen by the end of April

1:04:30

I think the Android version is available in

1:04:33

preview now if you're

1:04:35

into this kind of thing I to me

1:04:37

the Microsoft 365 mobile app is kind of perfect because

1:04:39

you don't want all the

1:04:41

office apps on your phone really but sometimes you do

1:04:43

have to deal with these things these types

1:04:45

of documents and you know actually that

1:04:47

where app works great so it's nice having the one app

1:04:51

and you know they're going to overload it so it

1:04:53

will become stupid and

1:04:56

then we would have talked last week

1:04:58

about the fact that we knew

1:05:00

that build and Google I.O. were

1:05:02

both happening in May and it was only a

1:05:04

matter of time before Apple announced WWDC

1:05:07

2024 and now they have

1:05:09

and not surprisingly it will be full of

1:05:11

AI goodness presumably Apple

1:05:13

and or I don't know Google, OpenAI

1:05:16

and whoever else else will come to

1:05:18

some sort of agreement before

1:05:20

this date so that we can find

1:05:23

out who they're going with I guess

1:05:25

on the AI stuff because it seems

1:05:27

like they're not going to

1:05:29

be going everywhere they can

1:05:31

I would love it if they

1:05:33

did something like you know perplexity does I

1:05:36

know you use an open model kind

1:05:38

of like you choose the model you

1:05:40

can have OpenAI you can have so

1:05:42

make of wherever you want I think

1:05:44

as you say that I agree with

1:05:46

you that's an awesome idea Apple will

1:05:48

never do that no you know why

1:05:50

Apple because somebody's they write them a

1:05:52

big check right oh okay okay that's

1:05:54

why no Google's going to give them

1:05:57

billions to make a Gemini Microsoft's right

1:05:59

yeah yep You are right. There is a

1:06:02

prior behavior to suggest that that is what they're

1:06:05

going to do. I was going to take a

1:06:07

slightly less cynical stand on this,

1:06:09

which is kind of bizarre for me, but I

1:06:11

was going to say something like, Apple will

1:06:13

decide which you can use

1:06:16

where, because they will pick in

1:06:18

their own little bespoke way which one's best. But

1:06:20

you're right. They'll just get a big check out.

1:06:22

That's the rationalization Apple is going to publish. But

1:06:25

the real reason is who writes the bigger check. You're

1:06:28

right. I'm going to get the big check. I

1:06:30

hope you open AI writing any checks. But Microsoft

1:06:32

might. Wouldn't it be

1:06:34

interesting that Microsoft has never been in this conversation,

1:06:36

oddly enough? Well, we don't know. It's a

1:06:38

rumor. We don't know who's talking to whom. I know, but come

1:06:40

on. You're telling me this wouldn't have come up somewhere, these two guys?

1:06:45

I don't know. You're right. OpenAI is not going to write

1:06:47

a check. So I think Google is going to win this

1:06:49

one. OpenAI

1:06:51

takes checks. They don't write checks.

1:06:54

That's not their business model. You're

1:06:56

not talking about a minor increasing

1:06:59

cost to sign up. Exactly. How

1:07:01

many billion iPhones. Do we even

1:07:04

afford that? I don't even know that Google could afford

1:07:06

it. But Google needs it. I raised

1:07:08

a theory, or my theory on Mac

1:07:10

Creek Weekly yesterday, which is because Apple...

1:07:12

So the reason Apple is doing this,

1:07:14

obviously, is so that if there are

1:07:16

hallucinations or privacy issues, we'll blame Google.

1:07:19

It's not our fault. Absolutely. But

1:07:21

I also wonder if Apple might not try

1:07:24

to...we don't know. Again, this is a

1:07:26

rumor. Use the models

1:07:28

on device and

1:07:31

do it locally. Like the Gemini Nano

1:07:33

model. They'll announce where the first phone

1:07:35

that has whatever the next one up

1:07:37

is. Like other phones

1:07:39

have Nano, but we have Gemini...

1:07:43

And then it offloads Google. They make the model,

1:07:45

but they don't have to worry about all those

1:07:47

billions of users. But

1:07:50

it also reassures users because

1:07:52

it's on device, so it's private. And

1:07:55

they already have the slogan, which stays on

1:07:58

your iPhone, or happens on your iPhone. stays

1:08:00

in your iPhone. It may

1:08:02

be complete nonsense. It's going

1:08:04

to be interesting. I'm curious. They're

1:08:12

so far behind, right? I think they're

1:08:14

pricing what it was going to take

1:08:16

to build their own and when. Wow,

1:08:19

we can buy a lot for this.

1:08:21

We do have infinite cash in the

1:08:23

bank. Why don't we

1:08:26

just buy something? I

1:08:28

don't think Apple and AI really

1:08:30

go together, to be honest. Well,

1:08:33

that said, they were

1:08:35

very early to the game of, in

1:08:37

fact, they almost hard-worded it in a

1:08:39

way, the on-device AI. And this hybrid

1:08:41

model, I think, is something the rest

1:08:43

of the industry has kind of adopted.

1:08:46

And they've been talking, I mean, they used to,

1:08:48

they would call it machine language, but they've been talking about

1:08:50

how they've been using capabilities on devices

1:08:52

for several years now. I mean, I don't

1:08:56

know. I don't know. Look,

1:08:59

I'll tell you this, because I never give up an

1:09:01

opportunity to, you know, kind of crap on Samsung. Samsung

1:09:04

put Google's thing on their

1:09:06

phone and they have their

1:09:09

little remove stuff from photos. Galaxy

1:09:11

is terrible. So now they're

1:09:13

bringing it to more phones. So

1:09:17

if you've ever used a Pixel and you've

1:09:19

done this magic eraser thing, it's

1:09:21

not always perfect. I mean, I'm not, I

1:09:24

mean to suggest that, but my God, it's really good

1:09:26

actually. And then you do the same thing

1:09:28

on a Samsung Galaxy and you're like, yikes. You

1:09:30

know, it's not even close. Like it's, there's

1:09:32

something wrong with it. So Samsung,

1:09:36

if anything, is providing a model for Apple

1:09:38

to look at for the pitfalls

1:09:40

of what can happen when you

1:09:42

just add AI willy nilly all over the

1:09:44

place on a phone, because it's

1:09:47

going to feel like a, you

1:09:49

know, a weird little pockmarked, the

1:09:52

messages app gets this AI, the photos

1:09:54

app gets this AI, you know, that's

1:09:57

what it looks like today on all of the phones, right?

1:10:00

So maybe they'll at least

1:10:02

learn a lesson from that

1:10:04

and be better. I mean, this

1:10:06

is the promise of that ecosystem. We'll see.

1:10:11

I wrote A1, not AI. But yeah,

1:10:14

Galaxy AI is coming to

1:10:16

more phones. So if you

1:10:18

have an S23 or any of the current generation

1:10:20

folding phones, tab, I think

1:10:22

it's S6 series

1:10:24

tablets, that Galaxy

1:10:26

AI stuff that debuted on the

1:10:29

S24 series back in January,

1:10:31

I think, is coming to

1:10:33

your devices starting tomorrow. And it doesn't matter where

1:10:35

you got them. Remember the battle days? Oh, you

1:10:37

got it on AT&T? Sorry.

1:10:39

It's going to be a couple of months. No, it doesn't matter.

1:10:42

You got it AT&T, US Cellular,

1:10:44

Verizon, T-Mobile, samsung.com.

1:10:46

Doesn't matter. It's just going

1:10:49

to come into everybody. So you'll get that soon,

1:10:52

like a virus or a cold or something. I

1:10:56

do wonder if

1:10:58

Google is going to have an

1:11:00

AT&T experience if Apple goes full bore.

1:11:04

So it's OK. I

1:11:07

thought that and forgot it immediately. When Leo was

1:11:09

talking about earlier, I was thinking to myself, oh,

1:11:11

you mean like when Apple blamed all the connectivity

1:11:13

problems on AT&T? Well, an AT&T. The

1:11:15

only company that would take a bet on the iPhone. And

1:11:18

AT&T threw them right under the bus.

1:11:20

CEO said the unlimited data

1:11:22

was the worst thing he'd ever done. Yep.

1:11:25

Oh, just a huge mistake. Years

1:11:27

later, I had to. So

1:11:30

what AT&T did to get rid of those

1:11:33

plans, because I got that plan the day the iPhone came out,

1:11:35

the unlimited plan. And they

1:11:37

stopped going to higher speeds. You

1:11:39

couldn't do anything with it after a while,

1:11:41

except be online at a horribly slow speed

1:11:43

forever. So eventually, I wanted

1:11:46

to get a new phone or whatever it

1:11:48

was. It was like, you got to switch the plan.

1:11:51

This thing's been grandfathered in. So

1:11:53

I was like, all right, I guess I'm going to do this. And

1:11:55

I went to the store to do it. And

1:11:57

the woman said, you sure you want to do this? She

1:12:00

said I feel like I'm killing a unicorn. Oh You're

1:12:03

like, well, I hear

1:12:05

you but I mean I gotta get but I don't remember if it

1:12:07

was a new phone right? Oh, wow You

1:12:10

know a lot of people been doing had to do

1:12:12

that. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, everyone did eventually right if

1:12:15

they could yeah, yeah Yeah,

1:12:18

now we have Unlimited plans, but

1:12:20

you know, it's it's all good. All planet has a

1:12:22

limit out in it somewhere You know

1:12:24

just crank a few terabytes through you'll get a call

1:12:28

Exactly. Well, yeah, or

1:12:30

just yeah, you'll notice something that's for

1:12:32

sure. Yeah And

1:12:36

that's that's it that's out that's that

1:12:38

is our AI story I think that's

1:12:40

everything Actually for 2024

1:12:42

this has been pretty light on the AI

1:12:45

side Although

1:12:47

we have there were several it's the calm

1:12:49

before the storm Paul. Yeah. Well

1:12:51

developers season is upon us. Mm-hmm

1:12:54

I think AI I don't know about you guys, but I think AI

1:12:57

has some legs I don't know.

1:12:59

I'm still not sure it's real. I think it's I

1:13:02

think it's a scam perpetrated by Microsoft Hey, oh, no,

1:13:04

wait, that was someone on my side. I said that

1:13:08

Someone literally said that like I

1:13:10

don't know how far how disconnected from reality needs to

1:13:12

be people though I've had we've had them on the

1:13:14

show who You

1:13:17

know really think this is a hype cycle kind

1:13:19

of like blockchain where it's really not gonna it's

1:13:21

gonna peter out and not gonna make A big

1:13:24

difference. Yeah. No the github

1:13:26

copilot is my anchor on that just

1:13:28

too much productivity. I completely agree. Yep

1:13:31

Yeah, I there are far Chinese. I was

1:13:33

in real world benefits You saw me last

1:13:35

year how uncomfortable I was with how big

1:13:37

this hype cycle was like I yeah, I

1:13:39

was very worried and but as

1:13:41

real people doing real development were saying good

1:13:43

things But for the me it was when

1:13:45

the PM's started ringing in like

1:13:48

my whole team is 25%

1:13:51

more effective Exactly. It's when

1:13:53

we had experience of how useful it

1:13:55

was that we turn from skeptics. Yeah,

1:13:58

I don't want to think I believe But

1:14:00

people who see the value... No, but it's understanding that there

1:14:02

is value here, right? They are there. Yeah,

1:14:04

I subscribed to CoPilot Pro back

1:14:07

in January, assuming I would find

1:14:10

it completely useless and would maybe move on to

1:14:12

the next thing, test a couple of different things. I've

1:14:14

not stopped paying for it. It's

1:14:16

fantastic. I'm now

1:14:18

in the habit of something I used to

1:14:20

do anyway, which is I get into a

1:14:22

class, I start writing my comment, right? This

1:14:26

is what I intend to do here, and

1:14:28

CoPilot writes the code while I'm writing the comment.

1:14:31

Wow. And it gets a new

1:14:33

percent of the way there from the comment. What

1:14:35

language are you using that? C-sharp.

1:14:38

C-sharp. But it works... It'll do

1:14:41

that with Python too. I've done it with Python

1:14:43

the same way. I do a common list, although

1:14:45

I made a custom chat GPT for

1:14:47

it, but it

1:14:50

is replaced flipping through hundreds of

1:14:52

books or dozens of books. It's

1:14:54

replaced my brain. No,

1:14:56

it's replaced the stack overflow. And going

1:14:59

off on some... That's what I'm replacing

1:15:01

the stack overflow. The afternoon where you

1:15:04

look something up and then you go and you go and you click and

1:15:06

you try things and nothing works. And then suddenly it's four o'clock in the

1:15:08

afternoon, you're like, what the hell was I doing? You

1:15:10

don't even remember why you were there in the first

1:15:12

place. You're so deep in the rap. In

1:15:15

the same way that, like a lot

1:15:17

of the IntelliSense capabilities in Visual Studio

1:15:20

kind of kept you where you were,

1:15:22

which is its own form

1:15:24

of efficiency and productivity. Being

1:15:27

able to solve problems, because no one knows how

1:15:29

to do everything. We all have to refer to

1:15:31

things or whatever. Keeping

1:15:35

you there is almost 50% of the battle. And

1:15:39

then solving the problem for you there, I

1:15:42

think is the next level benefit. I

1:15:45

used to write out the comment because it helped me

1:15:47

write the search expressions, the searches to go into stack

1:15:49

overflows. Exactly. I don't have to

1:15:51

do that. That's hysterical. I

1:15:53

don't let it write my code. I mean, I very

1:15:56

rarely will paste code in, but it sure

1:15:58

is helpful for pointing you in direction.

1:16:00

Yeah. No, it's the way

1:16:02

that it's integrated in Visual Studio, literally

1:16:05

below the comment the code is appearing as I'm

1:16:07

describing what it did there.

1:16:09

Because I also,

1:16:11

you know, I pay for it like you Paul, I thought, well

1:16:13

I'll try this for a month or two. I still pay for,

1:16:16

you know, chat GPT and

1:16:19

for perplexity I pay and

1:16:21

because I had used different models. I even have

1:16:23

a local model running. So I was trying to

1:16:26

learn a new concept pattern matching and, you

1:16:28

know, none of the books had a really satisfactory

1:16:30

example and there wasn't one online. So

1:16:32

I thought, well, I'll ask perplexity because it still

1:16:35

has access to the web. It's not one of

1:16:37

those canned LLMs where my knowledge has stopped in

1:16:39

March of 2020. It's

1:16:41

got access to the web. It wrote me

1:16:43

out a page, it wasn't huge, but a

1:16:46

page that clarified stuff that

1:16:48

I was not able to understand from any

1:16:50

other source. I was blown

1:16:52

away. I mean, it's

1:16:54

not, it's to be clear, it's not just like

1:16:57

software development. I mean, some of the

1:16:59

productivity features they've added to the apps and

1:17:01

co-pilot for Microsoft 365 are really exciting and

1:17:04

kind of speak to that notion

1:17:06

of, you know, you may spend your day in Excel

1:17:08

but you're not a Word expert or a PowerPoint expert

1:17:10

and you need some help to get over some month,

1:17:13

whatever it might be. But they're also just kind of

1:17:15

simple kind of

1:17:17

consumer-focused things where the

1:17:21

video summarization features, right, or podcast

1:17:25

summarization features or whatever. Yeah,

1:17:28

sometimes you can use it

1:17:32

to get an answer but you can also use

1:17:34

it to know whether this is something you might

1:17:36

want to pursue further. In other words, how

1:17:39

much time could you waste watching a video hoping

1:17:41

to see the answer to a question only to discover

1:17:43

it's not there, you know? I

1:17:46

mean, I guess you could, you could, you

1:17:48

could yourself manually copy and paste

1:17:50

the transcript and go try to find the term

1:17:52

you're looking for and maybe, you know, something like

1:17:54

that. But like this is just useful

1:17:56

and I kind of made fun of it earlier

1:17:58

but Microsoft... Microsoft had that quote about

1:18:00

10 whatevers

1:18:03

of 10 whatevers and Microsoft 365

1:18:05

co-pilot has resulted

1:18:07

in whatever million something and it's like, well actually,

1:18:10

saving time is

1:18:12

important and this

1:18:15

was the argument for the cloud, right? I

1:18:18

guess we could hire a team

1:18:20

of people to manage our exchange

1:18:22

server, build up this infrastructure and

1:18:24

do all this stuff. But remind me, we're not an

1:18:26

email company, right? Like we sell widgets. Why are we

1:18:28

doing this? Why are we

1:18:30

spending time, money and effort on this stuff? I

1:18:33

think freeing people who

1:18:36

are whatever they might be,

1:18:38

software developers, writers, presenters,

1:18:41

whatever market, whatever they are, who cares, from

1:18:44

the rigmarole of day to day

1:18:46

life and letting them focus on

1:18:48

the job at hand is, this

1:18:50

is promised realized. But

1:18:53

probably what productivity is about. Yeah,

1:18:55

that's the point, I think. I

1:18:59

feel like AI meets this bar and will

1:19:01

continue to do so. Look, our job collectively

1:19:04

is to point out the stuff that's nonsense and say,

1:19:06

look, some of this is hype and it's not going

1:19:08

to make it. I'm

1:19:11

on the list for the M365 co-pilot

1:19:13

case study. That will be a

1:19:15

lot of episodes and I haven't got one yet but it's coming.

1:19:18

Right. Yeah, we'll

1:19:20

see if the usual suspects show

1:19:22

up, you know, forrester, etc., etc. And

1:19:25

I have to say, I'm curious. You want

1:19:27

a Columbia sportswear or, you know, like almost

1:19:30

a customer profile. Yeah,

1:19:33

you want a customer that says, here's the

1:19:35

performance boost we got when we

1:19:37

were able to put

1:19:40

an LLM into the knowledge base that

1:19:42

is our company, all of that corporate

1:19:44

knowledge and save time to

1:19:47

move faster. Yeah, look, I

1:19:49

think we all went through like

1:19:51

the seven stages of grief with

1:19:53

AI because I remember my initial

1:19:55

pushback against paid AI services like

1:19:58

Microsoft 365 co-pilot. pilot was like, hold

1:20:00

on a second, you're telling me I

1:20:02

as an individual can buy Microsoft 365 family

1:20:06

for six people, terabyte storage, all the

1:20:08

apps, whatever. So

1:20:10

that works out to whatever there's six, eight bucks a month or something.

1:20:14

And I'm going to pay 20 bucks a month per user to

1:20:18

have enough. So is that you don't have to sell me by 250% or even by

1:20:21

11% like an E3 at $65 a month. Yeah.

1:20:27

But then you have that conversation with people like,

1:20:30

hold on a second, you're acting like

1:20:32

this amount of money per month is a lot of money, but

1:20:34

when it saves me, whatever,

1:20:36

from having, you know, or, or

1:20:38

just opens up like in my case, for example,

1:20:40

something stupid, like I create graphics for articles in

1:20:42

the web, right? My initial thing was

1:20:45

like, well, I'm going to use this for like

1:20:47

the paid premium articles, because you know, there's those are important,

1:20:49

I'll never use these for news articles. And then after a

1:20:51

while, like, well, actually, you know, and there's

1:20:53

no version of a world where I could go to a

1:20:55

friend of mine who is a graphic artist and say, all

1:20:58

right, this one, I want you to do

1:21:00

create four images based on what I'm about to

1:21:02

say, we'll come back and show them to me. I

1:21:05

won't like any of them. But I'll say this one's

1:21:07

close, make these changes to make

1:21:09

fortunate for new images based on that.

1:21:12

And then come back again. And I might or may not

1:21:14

have, you know, whatever that that's

1:21:16

impossible. So it's not this is not a like

1:21:19

a direct savings of money per se. No,

1:21:21

and it's also a capability that was impossible

1:21:23

before. Yeah, he just wouldn't do it. Just

1:21:26

wouldn't do it. You wouldn't even dream of doing it. It's stupid.

1:21:29

Yeah. And now it's easy. Don't you worry, though, Paul,

1:21:31

you're a designer. Don't you worry that it takes

1:21:34

food out of the mouth of design. I

1:21:37

can see the event horizon on my requirement.

1:21:39

I can see it. It's yeah, that's why

1:21:41

you and I don't care. I

1:21:44

would know it's ready to give in anyway.

1:21:47

The argument is you would never have gone for to

1:21:49

a designer for that. This is work. Right.

1:21:52

Not what had been done. Yeah. So

1:21:54

so someone asked someone asked me a simple question

1:21:56

like given what's going on with AI, would

1:21:59

you? recommend going into a college student,

1:22:01

perhaps going into this into

1:22:04

software development as a career right

1:22:06

now, you know, what's the recommendation?

1:22:08

Unfortunately, that's going to change in the weeks

1:22:10

and months ahead. We'll see. But it just,

1:22:12

if you're writing, if your code is prompt,

1:22:14

fine, what difference is it, you still need

1:22:16

a person to figure out the problems. And

1:22:18

that was, that's where I landed.

1:22:21

It was, it was basically that in

1:22:23

something that important, especially, we'll always understand

1:22:25

there needs to be a human being

1:22:27

there and look, the, the training might

1:22:29

be a little different. When I was younger and

1:22:31

I would have gone to school, I did go

1:22:33

to school for this. You learn programming languages and

1:22:35

that's what you did. Um,

1:22:37

when my son went to school,

1:22:39

he learned about psychology and user

1:22:42

experience and accessibility, because

1:22:44

now that field is different.

1:22:46

It's not engineers creating apps.

1:22:48

It's there's a team of people.

1:22:50

They need to understand all these issues when they create

1:22:52

user experiences for ATM machines and cars and whatever it

1:22:54

might be. The

1:22:57

easy part defining the space is the art

1:22:59

and knowledge domain has always been the tricky.

1:23:01

Yeah. So I think I, yeah,

1:23:04

anyway, I, it's changing

1:23:06

things, but. I,

1:23:09

you know, so to bring it back to Leo's

1:23:11

comment, I mean, for me as a, like a

1:23:13

creator or something, a writer, a designer, whatever

1:23:15

it might be, I mean, yeah, I,

1:23:18

when I went to art school, they didn't have computers

1:23:20

in the, you know, they did that for the next

1:23:22

group of people that came in, but not for me.

1:23:26

And, uh, how would that have, it would have changed

1:23:28

things, but it might not have changed my career arc.

1:23:30

You know? Um, so I think

1:23:32

AI is going to have that same kind of impact. It's,

1:23:34

uh, I might still want to.

1:23:38

I'm a writer, but if I was coming up with

1:23:40

the world today, maybe I'd be making Tik TOK

1:23:42

videos. You know, the medium is

1:23:45

maybe maybe the way you ever communicate with

1:23:47

people has changed. I wrote books

1:23:49

on paper. Honestly, and got

1:23:51

paid and got paid for that.

1:23:54

You know, it sounds stupid. I still think, and it

1:23:56

may always be the case that, um, it

1:23:59

does, it's not great. as good as a human

1:24:02

and generating art or writing is still

1:24:06

very mechanical and

1:24:08

weird. Richard and I

1:24:10

use it more as an advisor, right?

1:24:12

Or as an information extractor,

1:24:14

I think it's very good at that. Yeah,

1:24:17

and I think that's going to be true for a

1:24:19

lot of people. That's what it's good at. Yeah, and

1:24:21

I worry that, I think that, you know, just as

1:24:23

we learned really, I think we've learned that self-driving vehicles,

1:24:26

not gonna happen because it's not gonna happen but

1:24:28

a hard problem. It's too hard. As terrible as

1:24:30

drivers are here in Pennsylvania, the one thing that

1:24:33

would be worse is everyone driving around in a

1:24:35

Tesla, you know. So it's turning

1:24:37

out harder than we thought, as is often the

1:24:39

case in these things. And I

1:24:41

think maybe writing and art are

1:24:44

in that same bucket. But advising,

1:24:46

I think understanding what

1:24:49

AI can and cannot do is

1:24:51

really important to this whole process.

1:24:53

Years ago, a friend of

1:24:55

mine from France started a publishing

1:24:57

company, or a company that worked with

1:24:59

publishing companies, to bring French fiction

1:25:02

to English-speaking

1:25:04

languages. So I read a few of these books

1:25:06

and they had that kind of halting

1:25:10

off weird flavor, right, that AI sort of

1:25:12

has right now? You know, they, you could

1:25:15

kind of tell they weren't written by someone

1:25:17

natively. Our biology is super well- I don't

1:25:20

know the person doing the translations was really

1:25:22

good at that. We're super well-tuned to

1:25:24

the slightest nuances in things

1:25:27

like that. Yeah. And

1:25:29

I don't know if a machine will ever

1:25:31

get there. It's like in the uncanny valley.

1:25:34

That's where it heads. Yeah, so maybe, yeah,

1:25:40

the real tell on AI is not some

1:25:42

AI service that tells you it's AI, it's

1:25:44

a human being saying, it's just a

1:25:46

human being. Yeah, it's just kind of, the princess's

1:25:48

hand is a little bent. Yeah, it's not right.

1:25:52

And I think that's fine. I Don't

1:25:55

mind that because it means writers and artists and photographers

1:25:57

and painters and all those people will still have a

1:25:59

deal. The I grabbed designers sir but

1:26:01

they will be a I assist. Or

1:26:04

how. Are

1:26:07

you think back to when Microsoft

1:26:09

started backing off on pursuing. Windows,

1:26:12

Piracy and Developing Nations. right?

1:26:15

Because those people couldn't pay for it anyway.

1:26:17

There. Was no longer city. By.

1:26:20

It was ill loss and is like we were

1:26:22

pulled us describe with the art that he had

1:26:24

made for his articles. He. Was not

1:26:26

gonna pay someone fort right that wasn't and

1:26:28

will never know when would. Right now it's

1:26:30

no loss, it's just a new things being

1:26:32

made with a new tool. If.

1:26:36

They're ago it would always be an again

1:26:38

I guess but I it. But yeah I

1:26:40

mean ideally. It will be

1:26:42

there every the help or something because you have the

1:26:44

top it all and I a good. I guess you

1:26:46

could come up with whatever or examples but I was

1:26:49

is that powerpoint the guy everyone's while to get a

1:26:51

it's create a powerpoint presentations now but I do for

1:26:53

living I'm not good at it. Is

1:26:55

now and I. I. Getting.

1:26:57

Help with something like that. Awesome! And

1:27:00

and before ai we had. Various.

1:27:02

Tools that Microsoft in this case created

1:27:05

to make that better. And

1:27:07

they worked or didn't Whatever. They were pretty good

1:27:09

and I think a I will take it to

1:27:11

a new level to and I'd I think that's

1:27:13

important because I am in that case that same

1:27:15

sorry I'm not going to go to some expert

1:27:17

and pay them. To. Make. Some.

1:27:20

Ugly. presentation beautiful or it under snorkeling

1:27:22

to but if a i can do

1:27:24

this for me. And

1:27:27

asked if is going to have a lesser ugly. Presentation.

1:27:30

If. I

1:27:33

want to take a pause and refreshes

1:27:35

and then we shall return with the

1:27:37

export segment and the back of the

1:27:39

book. You

1:27:41

know you don't have to refresh if you

1:27:43

don't want them which may I guess So

1:27:46

slashing with a cell yellow rice in goes

1:27:48

out one of owls bottle of Evian and

1:27:50

spritzer to. Assess.

1:27:54

Your watching. Or. Listening.

1:27:57

Or. Even may be sleeping through windows.

1:28:00

weekly with Paul Thiratt and Richard Campbell.

1:28:04

On we go with the Xbox

1:28:06

segment. Now I'm

1:28:08

a Diablo 4 player. I like Diablo

1:28:10

4. I like that just mindless thumb

1:28:13

mashing. There you go. As

1:28:15

you bash. Get all the things. Yeah. Yeah.

1:28:18

And I love the look I've been waiting for.

1:28:20

I've been waiting for Activision Blizzard

1:28:22

games on Xbox Game Pass since

1:28:25

they announced they intended to acquire

1:28:27

this company. Right? I'm just.

1:28:30

Yep. This is the first one. So when

1:28:32

this deal went through, when was it October I think? I

1:28:35

thought here it comes baby. And

1:28:37

then two weeks into it they were like yeah it's not going to happen by

1:28:39

the end of the year. I'm like

1:28:42

okay. That stinks. But that's okay.

1:28:44

January's quick enough. Yeah. So

1:28:47

this is the first one. So I believe

1:28:49

it's tomorrow or Friday this week anyway. Diablo

1:28:52

4 will be the first Activision

1:28:54

Blizzard title to appear on Xbox

1:28:57

Game Pass. Six months in October. Right?

1:29:00

From the acquisition. And there is not an iota

1:29:02

of news because everyone asks, like God I wish

1:29:04

I knew about what happens

1:29:07

next because now

1:29:09

that we finally, this little bit of waiting is over,

1:29:11

we're already moving on to the next thing. Interestingly

1:29:15

you will have to install the

1:29:18

battle.net launcher

1:29:21

on PC. Right? Because

1:29:25

I don't know why because actually who knows. That's

1:29:27

where everything saved us battle. That's kind of it.

1:29:29

This was written to that and we're not changing

1:29:31

that. I have to assume, well I shouldn't assume.

1:29:34

I don't know. I'd like to think that kind

1:29:36

of thing goes away. I mean I don't know. But

1:29:38

anyway that's going to be a requirement on the

1:29:40

PC. I mean it's a

1:29:42

requirement for every new PC anyway. They

1:29:45

weren't able to get it retired and go all Xbox on

1:29:47

it I think. So

1:29:51

yeah I don't know what happens next. I

1:29:57

get a lot of email from these guys. This

1:30:01

came down the pipe. I'm like, here we go.

1:30:03

It's happening. And nothing.

1:30:07

So enjoy this

1:30:09

for what it is. And then normally

1:30:12

what we get is usually two, sometimes three

1:30:14

drops of game pass titles each month, you

1:30:16

know, for beginning of the month, halfway through

1:30:18

the month. I'm

1:30:22

thinking because of all

1:30:26

of the Activision Blizzard games that maybe

1:30:28

it will be a little better than

1:30:30

that for the rest of the year, but we

1:30:32

haven't, I haven't heard of things. So I apologize. I don't

1:30:34

know anything about it. Phil

1:30:37

Spencer was interviewed recently and he'll have

1:30:39

to say, which I think is really

1:30:41

interesting. He's open to third party game

1:30:43

stores on the Xbox, which makes absolutely

1:30:45

zero sense, but is entirely in keeping

1:30:48

with his whole. Everybody

1:30:50

should be able to play every anything anywhere

1:30:52

who cares. And it's like, Phil, you got

1:30:54

the acquisition. You don't you can stop talking

1:30:56

like this, but whether

1:30:59

anything like that happens. I don't know. I don't even

1:31:02

care. That doesn't make any sense to me. But he

1:31:04

did say something really interesting about gaming

1:31:06

handhelds. And

1:31:08

he basically threw windows on the bus, which

1:31:10

I found to be kind of amusing. He

1:31:14

feels that Windows is too big and too heavy

1:31:16

and is the wrong platform for this and that

1:31:19

we would be better off collectively as gamers if

1:31:21

we had an Xbox device.

1:31:25

A gaming device. Xbox

1:31:27

uses the Windows 10 kernel. Yeah,

1:31:30

but it's purpose made for this workflow or

1:31:33

whatever, right? I mean, it's, you know, it's

1:31:35

yes, it's a Hyper-V kind of a thing,

1:31:37

but you're you've basically got to like what

1:31:39

do you call it parent partition and a

1:31:41

child partition. Parent partition

1:31:43

is a tiny, tiny thing for the

1:31:45

UI and then the game runs

1:31:48

in the child and that's the whole system,

1:31:50

right? There's not a lot. We aren't getting

1:31:52

notifications and other apps running and stuff like

1:31:54

that. So yeah, I it sounds good. I

1:31:56

mean, we've been asking about this for, I don't know,

1:31:58

20 years, Phil. So. whether

1:32:01

the time for an Xbox portable gaming console

1:32:03

has kind of come and gone, given mobile

1:32:05

and all that stuff is kind of unclear.

1:32:08

But then again, you look at the popularity of

1:32:10

Steam Deck and some of these other devices. Switch

1:32:13

and so forth, like handheld gaming has never been

1:32:15

hotter. Maybe, you know,

1:32:17

maybe. Maybe

1:32:19

the Xbox architecture isn't

1:32:22

a bad place to look. Isn't that

1:32:24

technically what Windows 10x sort of was,

1:32:26

right? You know, partitioned,

1:32:28

we'll call it containerized, lightweight

1:32:31

OS. Maybe

1:32:34

there's an interesting architecture there for these things. You

1:32:37

actually did stick on top of that kernel that

1:32:39

would fit on an 8-inch screen with

1:32:41

a pair of controllers strapped to the side of it. Yeah.

1:32:43

And a 10,000 milliamp battery on the back of it

1:32:45

that lasts about four hours. They

1:32:48

made a version of the Xbox app that does

1:32:51

that sort of for Windows for these particular devices,

1:32:53

right? I mean, I don't know. This

1:32:57

doesn't seem like... I used to always imagine that as Microsoft...

1:33:00

Now you did neatly in a new consumer division. There

1:33:03

you go. I wonder if you can use AI to

1:33:05

figure out how to make it work. I

1:33:08

always... I had always imagined as each

1:33:10

generation of Xbox occurred that

1:33:13

they could create a portable system that would run the

1:33:15

previous gen titles. Yeah. And that

1:33:17

would be kind of cool, right? Sony,

1:33:19

of course, had the PSP and the

1:33:21

PS Vita. One would argue

1:33:23

this thing could become much easier with an ARM chip.

1:33:27

Exactly. Which is still

1:33:29

the current rumor for the next generation,

1:33:31

true new generation of Xbox consoles. So

1:33:34

it's worth... I wonder if this whole... Should it be coming together?

1:33:37

You can get ARM running on Windows and you have the backing

1:33:39

of the Windows team for the kernel

1:33:41

anyway. Now you just take that kernel,

1:33:43

put a lighter weight UI on it just as a

1:33:45

game selector and interface. I love it. You've got yourself

1:33:47

a pretty good app, and that 10,000 mAh

1:33:50

battery just turned up to seven hours instead of

1:33:52

four. Yeah, and they also

1:33:54

have enough

1:33:57

games for this to make sense as just sort of

1:33:59

a first party. I mean, other

1:34:01

developers will support it, but... With

1:34:04

the advantages of owning the game, houses

1:34:06

themselves, as you can tell them, go

1:34:08

recompile these things for Armin. Figure it

1:34:10

out. Yeah, and that is the

1:34:12

course... Armin windows come through. Yeah, that

1:34:14

kind of respect of your game library

1:34:17

and backward compatibility is, I think, one

1:34:19

of the key selling

1:34:21

points of the Xbox platform, if you

1:34:23

will. Yeah, it's also a part of

1:34:25

Microsoft culture, right? And to keep

1:34:27

the backwards compatibility thing up for a long time. Yeah,

1:34:30

that's right. Yeah, gamers love it. I

1:34:32

mean, I think there's even a Sony guy in the intersection

1:34:34

there, Paul. You know, that sounds pretty

1:34:36

good to me. Although the best

1:34:38

backwards compatibility these days is almost certainly on

1:34:40

a PC. It is kind of interesting

1:34:42

how you can play, like, older games

1:34:45

still. Yeah, well, not older games. Not

1:34:47

games. Yeah. Yeah, right.

1:34:51

I think you're sensing that intersection coming

1:34:55

of the heart. Well, yeah. On my room.

1:34:57

Yeah, I mean, speaking, you were talking just

1:34:59

the kind of Microsoft mentality. I mean, throughout

1:35:02

Microsoft's history, there have been various times where

1:35:04

do we go PC or do we

1:35:07

go dedicated device? You know, Media Center is a

1:35:09

good example of one where they basically

1:35:11

felt like they had to choose the PC because that

1:35:13

point in time, the device capabilities just weren't there. But

1:35:15

I think a lot of people would agree, if they

1:35:17

could, it just sells out a little bit and

1:35:20

done like kind of an Xbox style, standalone

1:35:22

device for the living room. But it didn't require all

1:35:25

the IR blasting and the cables and the cable card

1:35:27

stuff later on in the game. It

1:35:29

would have made a lot more sense for that market, right? I

1:35:32

built a home theater PC back in the

1:35:34

day. Where else required it

1:35:36

and all those problems. And I was the only person to keep it

1:35:38

running. You know, they were. Oh,

1:35:40

yeah. How many times we've both done this, right? You're on

1:35:42

a work trip. Your wife calls. She's like,

1:35:45

I want to watch TV. What's going on? Yeah.

1:35:47

And, you know, here's the 27 step process. It's

1:35:49

actually easier to land a 727 than it is

1:35:51

to get this thing. I had a

1:35:53

workshop where I could come in in the back and

1:35:55

reset everything myself. Like, there you go. Yep.

1:35:59

Yeah, we've all done that. Mm-hmm. So

1:36:01

anyway, yeah an arm based Xbox

1:36:04

platform No Handle.

1:36:07

Yep. Sign me up. Hey,

1:36:09

baby. Yeah, he

1:36:11

was surprisingly vocal about it. I thought but then

1:36:13

again, that's him he's very he's plain spoken like

1:36:16

little Spencer so I because Who's

1:36:19

aces and others are doing it in Windows? Yeah,

1:36:22

I know the yeah, my next but but

1:36:24

the other ones are windows, right? This is

1:36:26

you've got this trade-off right Linux is lighter

1:36:29

weight It doesn't have as

1:36:31

many games isn't quite as compatible Windows got

1:36:33

the compatibility, but it's heavier weight and you

1:36:35

want you know Is there I mean I agree

1:36:37

with you know, but I just it's really

1:36:40

did say people don't I Mean

1:36:43

ideally it just runs on the same hardware. In other words,

1:36:46

you could go to these guys Yeah, you could you could

1:36:48

run Windows. You can run Linux. You could

1:36:50

run Xbox. Oh, is it a problem in miniaturization? I

1:36:52

mean I'm doing I mean we had That

1:36:55

duck I mean we can get a well I

1:36:58

so I feel like Xbox has

1:37:00

only Fairly recently

1:37:02

if you will done

1:37:04

the work to make their machines

1:37:06

energy efficient Which has become

1:37:08

a big thing right which wasn't a bit Was

1:37:11

not a big thing in the first couple of generations

1:37:14

So in the same way that PC, you know

1:37:16

to get a PC down from a tower to

1:37:19

a laptop that made any sense It wasn't a

1:37:21

luggable, you know, a lot of work had to

1:37:23

be done at the chipset level at the software

1:37:25

level, etc. So It's

1:37:27

it's possible that this expected shift

1:37:30

to arm might be the final

1:37:33

Piece of the puzzle all in the place

1:37:35

to make this make sense very interesting You

1:37:38

know, I mean an arm we were

1:37:40

talking about emulation earlier an arm PC

1:37:42

could emulate previous chin Xboxes easily, right?

1:37:46

So, you know, I'm not I

1:37:48

don't know anything I'm just guessing but I mean,

1:37:50

yeah, this seems this seems doable to me That's

1:37:52

so yeah, and smart people are working on it.

1:37:54

We're not that clever. So somebody's already further down

1:37:56

the path exactly Maybe and maybe Phil's just hinting

1:37:58

at something. He's seen Really? I

1:38:01

dodged that that the I don't mean to say the

1:38:04

probably still Spencer is but I think if this were

1:38:06

anyone else you'd say oh my god teach city believe

1:38:08

he to said that You know what that means. An

1:38:10

unfortunate with him that saw what it

1:38:13

means Fill: As a gamer he any

1:38:15

eating in. He's altruistic and a kind

1:38:17

of a cross platform. I'm not just

1:38:19

the pro Microsoft X box guys sense

1:38:21

and sometimes he just talks about things

1:38:23

he wants. Which. Are just the things

1:38:25

that we want? If. They don't is not

1:38:27

an indication of strategy or worker anything

1:38:29

not necessarily could be, but. You.

1:38:31

Can't you can be careful not to read too much

1:38:34

into it. But. But.

1:38:36

Yeah I mean I'd like as as as a

1:38:39

gamer you the you listen to the sky talk

1:38:41

and you see what he said about this your

1:38:43

yeah like this would this yes we are as

1:38:45

but he wanted people at this. Ah,

1:38:48

let's take another a timeout.

1:38:51

By. Swimming to say I give this familiar not as I'm done.

1:38:54

It. All when for one more thing. Oh,

1:38:56

and minor thing as so. in addition

1:38:58

to stand X box consoles and to

1:39:00

the Pc stuff, Microsoft also has he

1:39:02

services rights. So Game Pass and cloud

1:39:04

gaming. And cloud gaming. You know their

1:39:07

issues there with latency and lamp bandwidth,

1:39:09

etc etc. But they've been proving the

1:39:11

service and they are now testing mouse

1:39:13

and keyboard support which makes sense because

1:39:15

those games. Can be

1:39:17

Pc games right when might want to have

1:39:19

that support. So there's a finite list of

1:39:22

these games. It's.

1:39:25

A weird less frankly I mean a

1:39:27

the browser based version of Fortnight: Sea

1:39:29

Of Thieves Crowded. Hello Internet. Than.

1:39:33

He gets like not any the Gears of War

1:39:35

as game but Gears Tactics as in their pants

1:39:37

Met which is brand new Doom Sixty Four which

1:39:39

is a for it literally of a Nintendo Sixty

1:39:41

Four came from. Not. Quite thirty

1:39:43

years ago. By Thirty years Ago or

1:39:45

age of Empires to Sarah. So there

1:39:47

they are, looking at. Your

1:39:51

lives on things where if you have a touch device

1:39:53

they have like an on screen controller. now

1:39:55

they're gonna be adding muslim keepers apartments where

1:39:58

they can i don't want to page empires

1:40:00

with a controller. That's just no fun.

1:40:05

Click on those gothics. Alright,

1:40:08

now we can pause. I just want to, you know, just

1:40:10

take a little time, just a moment to mention I did

1:40:12

already at the beginning of the show Club Twit. Thank

1:40:15

our Club Twit members for making

1:40:17

this possible, especially those in

1:40:19

the Discord who really make it fun to

1:40:21

do these shows. In fact, all the time

1:40:23

when I was, even when I was on

1:40:25

vacation, I was hanging out in the Club

1:40:27

Twit Discord. It's a really nice social network.

1:40:30

For your seven dollars a month, of course, you get access to

1:40:33

that. You get ad-free versions of all

1:40:35

of our shows. You get video of all

1:40:37

of our shows. That's something new. We decided

1:40:39

to make the, for instance, Paul does Hands-On

1:40:41

Windows. We decided to make the audio available

1:40:43

to the public so everybody can hear it.

1:40:47

Ad-supported. And then we're

1:40:49

gonna keep the video for shows like

1:40:51

that. Hands-On Macintosh, iOS Today, the Untitled

1:40:53

Linux show, so forth. Keep that in

1:40:55

the Club. So all

1:40:57

the shows now that we were doing behind

1:40:59

a paywall only are now available to the

1:41:01

public as audio. Thank you, Lisa,

1:41:03

for approving that change. But

1:41:06

the video is in the Club. But we want to give

1:41:08

you a benefit for joining the Club. You

1:41:11

know, ads-free versions of the show, video

1:41:13

versions of all the shows, the

1:41:16

Discord, some additional content like

1:41:18

the tomorrow's inside Twit. That's Club

1:41:20

Only. I gotta say the

1:41:22

real benefit is that you are helping us continue

1:41:25

to do, I think, a job we do well

1:41:27

and a job that needs to be done, especially

1:41:29

in the age of AI, you know. Help

1:41:32

you navigate what's going on in the

1:41:35

world. If you listen to a show or two

1:41:37

or three every week, please

1:41:39

consider joining the Club. Seven bucks a month.

1:41:42

twit.tv slash Club Twit.

1:41:45

Enough said. I'm

1:41:47

sorry, not Thursday Friday for our inside

1:41:50

Twitter. I said Thursday a couple of

1:41:52

times. I meant Friday. Lisa and I

1:41:54

will come on and tell

1:41:56

you what's going on inside

1:41:59

Twit. Now back to the show we

1:42:01

go and the back of the book, which means

1:42:03

it's time for Paul Tharott's tip

1:42:05

of the week. Yeah,

1:42:08

this is almost like three app

1:42:10

picks in a row, but as a

1:42:12

tip of sorts, I have recommended Arc browser

1:42:14

in the past. It's particularly good on the

1:42:16

Mac. In fact, I love it. That's what

1:42:18

I'm a revelation on the Mac. It's all

1:42:20

I use. Yeah, it's yeah,

1:42:23

it requires a bit of work. Like I said, it's

1:42:25

the it's what you call it. The navigation is a

1:42:27

little different. You know, things are different, but it's it's

1:42:30

one of those things like it clicks or it doesn't.

1:42:32

But one of the one of the problems

1:42:34

on Windows is that it hasn't supported sync. And

1:42:37

so on the Mac, they moved

1:42:39