0:00

It's time for Windows Weekly. Paul Therot and

0:02

Richard Campbell are here. Well, actually, they're in Seattle

0:05

for the Ignite conference. Microsoft

0:08

made a ton of AI announcements. It's co-piloting

0:10

all the things. They'll tell you about that.netconf

0:13

also this week. Richard will have something to say

0:15

about that. New releases of Windows 11, Xbox

0:19

Series X. We'll

0:21

get Paul's review of Modern Warfare 3. I

0:24

don't know how he feels about it. We'll find out that and

0:27

a whole lot more coming up. Let's go to Seattle

0:29

with Windows Weekly next.

0:32

Podcasts you love.

0:35

From people you trust. This

0:38

is Twit. This

0:45

is Windows Weekly with Paul Therot

0:47

and Richard Campbell. Episode 855, recorded Wednesday, November

0:51

15th, 2023. Live

0:54

from Ignite. This

0:57

episode of Windows Weekly is brought to you by Thinkst

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melissa.com.twit. It's

1:36

time for Windows Weekly, the show we cover the latest

1:38

news from Microsoft. I

1:42

think I can tell from our hosts, Richard Campbell

1:45

and Paul Therot, that they are at Microsoft

1:47

Ignite in Seattle. Hello, gentlemen.

1:50

Hello. You are in a terrarium

1:53

somewhere deep within the Redmond Empire.

1:56

Yeah, we're in a people aquarium for sure.

2:00

Are people staring at you? Not

2:02

at the moment. We're in the far

2:04

corner of the top floor of this building. You gotta stay

2:07

on that mic. Yeah. So we'll be a while before.

2:09

Yeah. But there is a CIO summit right

2:11

across from us. So expect CIOs to

2:13

be staring at us soon. How exciting.

2:16

That is so exciting. Well,

2:19

I don't have separate, I don't have to, I

2:21

can't do separate because you're

2:23

all in the same room. So one

2:26

camera. We're on camera. And I can't

2:28

even separate your microphone. So I've

2:31

got a local two-track recording if you want it.

2:34

I think we're good. It sounds all

2:36

right. Yeah. It's good to see. Yeah,

2:38

so these seven B's are pretty

2:40

good. They're nice mics. Oh, I love them.

2:42

I noticed that Microsoft

2:45

announced they're going to

2:47

call it co-pilot everywhere. Is

2:49

that one of the things they announced at Ignite? How

2:52

many shots did we take when Jared was saying co-pilot

2:54

over and over and over again? If we had taken shots

2:57

every time they said co-pilot, we would both be dead.

2:59

Yeah. Yay. There was a

3:01

lot of co-pilot. But you know what? It's OK. Because

3:04

for once, Microsoft has a good brand. They're

3:07

really running with it, maybe a little too much.

3:10

Well, I think they're stopping using the word Bing.

3:13

Right, right. By the way, since

3:15

February, I've been like, nope. You don't go to market with the name

3:17

Bing. You can't do it. So no

3:19

Bing AI. No Bing. It's

3:22

co-pilot. And that, I'm let's

3:24

face it, the Bing name is painted.

3:27

Not good. Yeah. It's

3:31

not as soon, exactly, but kind of,

3:33

right? Kind of nice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

3:36

So I mean, that doesn't mean any

3:38

feature differences, right? It's just. Right.

3:42

Yeah. Yeah, but it's a bit of clarification. Remember,

3:44

back in September, they semi-clarified

3:47

it. And then I think now they finally come full circle,

3:49

which is just the base layer is called co-pilot.

3:51

It's in everything, all the co-pilots. That

3:54

feature that was called Bing Chat is

3:57

now called co-pilot for Bing. and,

4:00

uh, aren't just co-pilot actually. And

4:02

it's, and that's just the name. It's the foundational

4:05

layer for all the co-pilots. And then

4:07

as you go out to co-pilot for Microsoft 365

4:09

or co-pilot in windows 11 or whatever

4:12

it might be, um, there will

4:14

be additional capabilities built on top

4:16

that are kind of context specific to that

4:18

product. There's

4:20

still too many co-pilots, but they're trying,

4:22

at least they're aware of literally a hundred. There's

4:25

literally a hundred. Yeah. You know, he

4:27

kept saying that we're putting these together. Like

4:29

you, you won't be a problem. This

4:32

is the work and home switch made me sad

4:35

because it's just like accounts. Right. You know,

4:37

you, you go to log into a Microsoft property. It's like,

4:40

this is a, it's home account around

4:42

is big brother watching or is my corporation

4:45

watch it's a matter of oversight.

4:47

Yeah. Which surveillance system would you like? Yeah,

4:50

exactly. Yeah. So for instance,

4:52

a service. Anyway,

4:55

uh, and too many studios. That was the other

4:57

one. That was the other one. Yeah. A lot of

4:59

new language by the way. So Leo, are you familiar with the term

5:02

small language model? Oh, yes. Oh

5:04

yeah. Because I usually work with tubby language

5:06

models and, uh, which is the other end

5:09

of the language model weights. Yeah.

5:11

So as, as these things, uh, as Microsoft's

5:14

AI services go live, they're coming around

5:16

to this notion that this is going to cost us a lot of money.

5:19

And so we need to work on hybrid, but also just

5:21

local AI and that language

5:24

models, uh, will make sense locally, but

5:26

also workload

5:28

specific cloud, uh, things, you

5:30

know, depending on what the needs are, you can get away with something

5:33

smaller. It's, uh, more efficient, beneficial

5:36

all around. So that's, that's

5:38

another term that I don't know that Microsoft

5:40

was so big

5:42

on before this show. Uh,

5:44

and what was the other one? Grounded search. Yeah.

5:47

Grounded web. So AI, yeah,

5:49

the notion that AI models are grounded

5:51

in, so like a public AI service, like

5:54

what used to be Bing chat, which is not just co-pilot

5:57

is grounded in the web is the terminology.

5:59

Right. And then of course the Microsoft

6:01

Graph stuff the what I should say a copilot

6:04

for Microsoft 365 I guess is technically

6:06

grounded in Microsoft

6:08

Graph right? It's the internal corporate

6:11

Data,

6:12

it's always it's how I understand it. We're still

6:15

kind of a fog-of-war thing still but I'm But

6:17

I am feeling like it's language designed

6:20

to soothe. Yes We

6:26

have a gentle copilot staff

6:28

Put right on you see all

6:30

right Here's

6:32

not as soon as soothing as Bob,

6:34

but you know call me, you know Your

6:38

a but your AI overlords are here and

6:40

they're going to be kind they're gonna be benign Yeah,

6:43

we I think a lot of the keynote was

6:45

kind of around addressing the

6:48

concerns about AI, right?

6:50

Both for people and for companies And

6:53

you know, this is gonna be a debate we have

6:55

for years. It's it's this is not going

6:57

away Well, if there's anything you

7:00

got from this, it's like sachets

7:02

all in you think the whole just

7:04

so all Yeah, well they I mean they're smart

7:07

because they have a lead here, right their relationship

7:09

Open AI gave an arguably for the first time in

7:11

a long time. Yeah, it also that

7:13

kind of unique combination of capabilities

7:16

and infrastructure and And

7:19

surprising for the Microsoft of what I will not

7:21

call the previous era the kind of cloud era of

7:23

Microsoft Real desire

7:26

to take a leadership position. Yeah He

7:28

out there. This is not the Consents

7:31

decree Microsoft right, right the

7:34

supercomputer statement was interesting Yeah

7:36

I did an interview with Resinovich a few months

7:38

back and he talked about when they built Gpt3

7:42

and at the time because I had to harness a whole bunch

7:44

of Azure to do the build It was the

7:46

fifth largest supercomputer in the world right

7:48

at that time They

7:49

of course didn't immediately repurpose the gear and it

7:52

and it hit me that You

7:53

know the fact that they had all these computing centers

7:55

means they could make a supercomputer on demand Like

7:58

on the fly. Yeah, other than they have customer sort

8:00

of trying to use those. That's why

8:02

xCloud went down. We were

8:04

busy making a supercomputer.

8:08

Satche talked about making the third largest

8:10

supercomputer. It may seem one or two wasn't the build for

8:12

GPT-4 because they've been pretty secretive

8:15

on the day of GPT-4.

8:17

And of course, because all those supercomputers

8:20

in that class, number one and number two,

8:22

they're both American. One's in Illinois,

8:24

the other one's in Kentucky. And they're purpose-built

8:28

machines. It occurs to me

8:30

that Microsoft wants to get to a certain state with

8:32

their cloud. Could every

8:35

time there's a new top supercomputer machine, just

8:37

run the workload on Azure and beat it. And

8:40

then we'll get our number one again. And then they build a bigger

8:42

one and then they'll do it again.

8:45

I wouldn't be surprised.

8:47

It would be fascinating. It's a different

8:50

way of thinking about supercomputing that

8:52

you basically have a dynamically repurposed machine.

8:55

It's a supercomputer for the cloud

8:57

error. Totally.

9:01

What else? Well,

9:03

maybe not obviously. I tend

9:06

to focus on the client stuff. There'll

9:09

be a few. We'll throw some Azure stuff in here. There

9:11

was some interesting stuff there. So

9:13

the Copilot rebranding 2.0, I

9:16

think was the rebranding

9:18

clarification, I think was important

9:21

and well explained.

9:23

Jared Spataro does a great job of just

9:25

speaking in general, but he did a good job of explaining

9:28

it, I thought.

9:30

Copilot for Microsoft 365 launched

9:33

earlier this month. And I should say launched with their

9:35

quotes. For enterprises,

9:37

right? Companies that

9:40

had 300 seats or more. They didn't

9:42

really talk about the expansion of that, although that

9:44

will have to happen. Eventually, they did

9:46

talk about this notion of it receiving

9:49

the plug-in support, which we always knew was coming.

9:53

So that's going to get much more interesting with

9:56

access to third party data sources, right?

9:58

Not just Microsoft.

9:59

if they just need to run some instrumentation on 300

10:03

seat or so and say like are they getting good

10:05

results? Yeah.

10:06

This is like... Yeah, when they

10:08

first rolled out Azure, it was sort of like,

10:10

let's just see what happens. We're going to send

10:12

you fake bills. You could see what that looks like.

10:14

You can give us feedback. We'll see.

10:17

I think we're in that phase with this stuff. They

10:19

definitely want to... You

10:21

saw the list of companies that are

10:24

co-pilot powered. And

10:25

those must have been there. That

10:27

pioneer group. The one for a few months. That's right. They

10:30

didn't explain. Now

10:32

they did. So you got to bet that they said, hey, we'll let you

10:35

in on the early trial, but you got to give us your

10:37

logo to use at a keynote. Right? That's

10:40

right. Which obviously they did. But those are all

10:42

huge seat counts. And that, to me, it's like you think about

10:44

how much data you need to really have

10:46

the LLM do something useful for you. Yeah.

10:49

That's a good point. So I'm wondering if they're instrumenting this or not out

10:51

of that. Just watching. How do these models behave

10:54

when you look at corporate data? What's it going

10:56

to be like when the seat counts? When you talk about small business,

10:58

it's

10:58

for people.

10:59

Right. What kind of data? What

11:02

kind of results are you going to use? I think the small business

11:04

stuff is going to skew toward the same

11:06

thing they're doing with individuals, which is you

11:08

basically have this one drive for SharePoint,

11:11

a shared data store. You

11:13

have email contacts. You have calendars,

11:16

events. You have had meetings

11:18

and so forth. Yes. We'll

11:20

see. I don't know. I have

11:23

not been able to test that stuff. So I

11:25

am curious. Yeah. I

11:28

just got notified as the regional director. I'm going to get it. Yes.

11:31

And I'm a small enterprise. Right. Right.

11:34

So we'll at least have some view into all of that.

11:37

Yeah.

11:39

You want to talk about the loop part? You watched that loop part.

11:41

I did that. Loop is out. Except

11:43

I was pretty disappointed because you have to have a commercial account,

11:46

right? Or use it on mobile. It's not available. It's

11:49

over. Loop is generally available for commercial.

11:51

So this is the Microsoft 365 commercial customers.

11:54

If you are an individual, because I'm in the loop

11:56

with my Microsoft account as well. Yeah. technically

12:00

still in preview, but you should be able to access it

12:02

on the web and on mobile. But

12:05

I could be wrong about that. I'm using it on, I

12:07

am using it on mobile for sure. Sure. Loop

12:10

is, you know, what we've kind of

12:13

known it to be for the past, I don't know, several months, year,

12:15

which is a Microsoft's version of kind

12:17

of a notion from a UI perspective. Yeah.

12:21

It's a new style of working

12:23

and collaborating.

12:26

New to Microsoft, I should say, right? So obviously

12:29

they have these legacy tools that are very popular, Word, Excel,

12:31

PowerPoint, etc. So this is kind of that new, you

12:33

know, note taking

12:36

app style app with, you know, modular

12:38

components and draws in

12:40

different data sources if that's what you want in a company.

12:42

I'm actually surprised they didn't go with the consumer

12:45

version first, it would have been easier.

12:47

Yeah.

12:49

But yeah, I like it.

12:52

My experience has been that it's unreliable

12:55

and buggy.

12:56

Really?

12:56

Yeah. I mean, I haven't had any problems with it. I just

12:59

don't like the threatening messages it keeps sending about. You

13:01

know, you're using a trial. And

13:03

then of course, they try and soften it with

13:05

like, everything will be fine. But you're using

13:07

a trial. I'm like, I'm pretty sure I'm not using a trial. I have an E5.

13:10

Right. Come on. I

13:12

have the simplest. Well, think

13:14

about the notes we do for Windows Weekly, right? This is a notion.

13:17

It's just text. It's simple. But

13:19

I haven't even been simpler thing I've been testing it with. I just

13:21

have my gym machine list

13:23

and what the weights are I use on each thing. And

13:26

it's a little disarming to be at the

13:28

gym and you hold

13:30

up your phone and it won't load. It says something's wrong.

13:33

And it's like, I just want to see a number. It's literally

13:35

just a text file. Yeah. You

13:37

know, this has got to be authentication. Yeah.

13:40

Which it does seem to be Microsoft's bugbear.

13:43

Even though they are working on it. Yeah.

13:46

So I could switch it over to my commercial account, maybe see if

13:48

that's any better. But it is. It's

13:51

if you are in commercial, it's you know,

13:53

GA. So it's out there now. I don't

13:57

know. I think. Yeah, we'll see. I keep it different.

14:00

I like it. I've now moved

14:02

all the whiskey notes there. Okay. Yeah.

14:05

We'll get on loop some day Leo. One

14:07

day you'll come in and we'll try it. Is

14:09

it as good as... I mean we're using Notion now and

14:12

I really like Notion. Obviously, Loop is

14:14

a direct clone of Notion or is it?

14:16

A clone. It is from a UI

14:18

perspective. I think that the architecture

14:20

they built behind it is actually unique to Loop

14:23

and it's very powerful but you know there's

14:26

also a case to be made that kind of power

14:28

isn't necessary for the type of thing we're doing and

14:31

maybe something simpler or lightweight

14:33

might be better. I mean we'll test

14:35

it. Well and everyone would argue stepping on one note but that's

14:37

the only way you're using that aspect. It's the Loop components.

14:40

Right. The way things get really interesting. That's right.

14:43

You know the idea that I can make an Excel Loop

14:45

component. Right. And I can email

14:48

it to someone. Yeah. But it's

14:50

really emailing the Loop components so

14:52

it appears like Excel. This is...

14:54

we talked about this probably a year ago. Yeah. This

14:58

notion that Loop essentially from an

15:00

architectural perspective is the

15:02

OLA stuff from the late

15:05

90s but applied not to just documents

15:07

on your computer but to your organization

15:10

or the internet or whatever it might be. So it's

15:13

like internet OLA. I

15:15

don't know how to say it. Yeah.

15:17

And that was the whole idea is hey you know here's this

15:20

older sales person we've got. We can't get him

15:22

into teams. He just doesn't do it. He doesn't look there.

15:24

He looks in his email. So I email him

15:26

the current price list in his spreadsheet that

15:28

automatically updates every time he opens it. That's right. That's

15:31

the Loop component. Yeah. Because it's a Loop component.

15:33

This is you know what OLA was. Right. The idea that you could open

15:35

a Excel spreadsheet inside of a Word

15:37

document. When you clicked inside of it the toolbar would change

15:40

to be Excel toolbar. But the data was

15:42

live. Yeah. So that if the underlying file changed

15:44

somewhere at some point you would see

15:46

that in the Word app as well. Right. And

15:49

so we're applying that same idea. Yeah.

15:51

Your example is great because in organizations

15:53

now that you have a mix of younger

15:55

people who are really comfortable with teams and older

15:58

people who are not leaving Outlook until they're dead. Yeah,

16:00

and this allows everyone to participate in

16:02

the same. Yeah, you don't want to have to leave them out

16:05

Then you're emailing them copies of things right,

16:07

you know, get rid of that plague that link

16:09

thing Yes, because I'm gonna handle it in the background.

16:11

You don't worry about he thinks you send you

16:13

a copy of the document He's not he's not it's actually

16:15

setting a reference to the SharePoint So

16:18

you just love that one master truth or whatever you

16:20

want to call it that one and I think I

16:22

think it's really brilliant And you know, well, how is it different

16:24

the notion? It's that it's that stuff and that's

16:27

and that's why it's taken so long We've been talking about loop

16:29

for at least two years. It might even be three Try

16:32

to remember well, and I think you have the problem of what

16:34

is this? Right? Are we me? Are

16:36

we replacing one note? Are we like yeah,

16:39

we're back to what? And then we're solving

16:41

all these other problems to end integrating through

16:43

teams like you also lose use

16:46

loop through team Yeah, and the

16:48

other and that's interesting too because Concurrent

16:52

with this I guess we have a new teams

16:55

that came out a couple of my watch its GA

16:57

now I've been using it for a while like most people

16:59

but it actually that's also GA today new

17:02

version of Outlook Which controversial

17:04

the commercial space because it doesn't have all the features yet

17:08

But both these things I think we're all designed to be

17:11

used together. This is the point

17:14

That's good. You want to talk about clip?

17:16

Oh, no teams hitting through over 300 million

17:19

or three. Yeah, always I

17:22

don't want to talk about Great

17:26

have I mentioned clip I've

17:30

never turned on an app so fast Like I just I

17:33

just it was so great from day one But

17:36

but before we get to that so like

17:38

I said the new teams of GA they now soon

17:40

number for teams usage Which honestly

17:42

I I've kind of parsed

17:44

their language as they said it in real time I mean it is still

17:46

growing one of them said not

17:48

as fast as before right? So I think it was 300 million

17:51

back in Probably May I'm assuming

17:53

that was tied to build and that

17:55

was the last milestone and now we it's 320 million active You

17:59

know monthly active users There

18:01

is a Teams feature called Mesh.

18:03

We're trying to pretend doesn't exist, but it's coming in January.

18:06

This is that mixed reality. It looks

18:09

a lot like Windows Mixed Reality where you have these virtual

18:11

rooms and the guys float around without legs and stuff.

18:14

And that Horizon World from Facebook.

18:16

Yeah, it's very, very much like

18:18

that. So that's arriving in January.

18:21

You have to assume they wanted to have that ship

18:23

now, but whatever. And you can mix

18:25

and match real people with

18:27

the avatar people and have

18:30

virtual environments. And this was a little bit more natural.

18:32

I think it makes it a lot more unnatural, but

18:36

that's okay. Now, you like the new Teams.

18:39

I do. Have you gotten the dialogue pop

18:41

up that said, do you like the new Teams? Do you want

18:43

to go back? Oh my God. Actually,

18:45

the only thing. So I had major

18:48

problems with Microsoft Teams before the

18:50

new version. And it kept resetting

18:53

my audio and video settings. And

18:55

it just for some reason couldn't do all that stuff. It

18:57

would pop up boxes in the middle

18:59

of meetings and say, Hey, did you know you can use Excel?

19:01

And it's like, guys, I'm in a meeting. Why would you do

19:03

this now? So the new Teams comes out.

19:06

All those problems are solved or they seem to be much

19:08

better. And but

19:11

the thing they pop up all the time, it's like, Hey, we

19:13

see you using the new Teams. Are you sure you want to use

19:15

the new Teams? Would you like to go back to the old Teams?

19:18

No, I'm using the new Teams. Leave me alone.

19:20

I'm tempting you. I need to go back. It's

19:22

so weird. Do you think it's researched? Like, let's

19:25

make sure people want this. I'm

19:28

sure it was well intentioned, you know,

19:31

because, you know, new things are bad for some

19:33

people. And they

19:35

were afraid that, I don't know, people could

19:37

get back. But if you would, if you were never

19:40

clicked on it, you don't know if you'll actually get back over the last

19:42

few more questions. Well, this thing is too bad. You're

19:44

never getting it. Both apps are on your PC. It would

19:46

be funny if it laughed at you and said,

19:48

no, no, sorry, buddy. That's not happening.

19:51

The Windows is not happening. Let

19:53

me load Slack for you. Yeah, exactly. So

19:56

yeah, no, I, the new Teams is a huge improvement.

19:58

I spent the past. two, three years complaining

20:01

about teams. And now the new one's actually it's great.

20:03

So that to me is a big step forward.

20:05

It's weird. It's just becoming an app that you use

20:07

and it's not a big deal. It's right. It's what it

20:09

should have been from day one. Right. So

20:11

that's good. Well, lighter weight, faster

20:13

performance, et cetera, et cetera. So that's good.

20:16

We should talk about the Windows 11 stuff, right?

20:18

Yeah. I think one of the things

20:21

that's really, I wrote an editorial about this, well,

20:24

I published it this morning. I wrote it over the past couple of days,

20:26

but I'm sort of reflecting on

20:29

two major themes here. One is these

20:32

errors of Microsoft, not errors, but

20:34

errors of Microsoft, right? The

20:36

Microsoft, the scrappy startup, the Microsoft

20:39

that dominated the world with Windows in Office,

20:41

the Microsoft that kind of lost the script after

20:43

the antitrust stuff,

20:44

you know, the Microsoft of the cloud computing error.

20:47

And the Microsoft of the cloud

20:49

computing error is the most successful

20:52

version of Microsoft by far from a sort of

20:54

a financial perspective or, you know, market cap,

20:56

whatever, however you want to measure that. It is

20:59

by far also the least interesting Microsoft

21:01

to me because it left

21:03

Windows behind, right? Welcome. Yeah.

21:07

The push from Satche and Nadel at the time

21:09

was, you need to make your business make sense,

21:12

but it also has to make sense within this new Microsoft.

21:14

And there are some businesses

21:16

in Microsoft that lent themselves very naturally

21:19

to this model, the server business transitioning

21:21

into Azure and Entre

21:23

and all those new server purviews and all that stuff. And

21:26

then Office transitioning to Microsoft 365,

21:28

right? At Xbox even,

21:31

although it hasn't happened, there's

21:33

this kind of obvious future for those businesses.

21:36

The future of Windows is not Windows 365, although

21:40

that will be a thing, right? It is a thing. But

21:43

as far as the volume usage of Windows, it's still very much

21:45

a client, locally installed desktop

21:48

operating system. And it kind of got

21:50

left in the dust. And I

21:52

just, there was so much despair, you know,

21:56

over those, not quite 10 years, but

21:58

let's call it 10 years.

21:59

This was about 10 years.

22:01

So

22:02

the nice thing is now we've entered this new era,

22:05

era with Microsoft, right? I'll

22:07

call it the AI era.

22:09

And AI is

22:12

the wave that lifts all boats,

22:14

right? Windows gets to come along

22:16

for the ride. And these are goofy

22:18

little examples. And I don't mean to suggest

22:21

that this is where AI stops when it comes to

22:23

Windows, but if you think back

22:25

just a few years ago, I would say 2016, 2017, we

22:29

were in this hell of

22:32

Microsoft would shift two updates, major upgrades

22:34

to Windows every year. They were talking about creative, creator

22:36

updates. Remember? Yeah. Everyone's

22:39

a creator. Which by the way, is actually semi-true.

22:41

Yeah. But the features they put in

22:43

Windows were ridiculous. You know, paint 3D

22:46

and 3D view with all this silly things

22:48

that were very kind of esoteric and niche usage

22:50

and not broadly applicable

22:52

to most of the audience. Of course, they quietly

22:54

stopped working on that stuff eventually and actually

22:57

took it out of Windows. But you look at

22:59

the little things, just because AI has

23:01

happened so fast. You gotta remember, internally,

23:04

this started a year ago right now. Yeah.

23:06

Yeah. The email from Satya Nadella. The public

23:08

face of it started in February, which

23:11

is what, nine months ago. There

23:13

was a couple of major milestones in March with Microsoft 365

23:15

in May, with all the announcements

23:18

from Build in September, with

23:20

all of the, I'll call them non-analysis, or at

23:22

least free brandings and so forth. And now here we are at Ignite.

23:25

That's a really short period of time for a company

23:28

like Microsoft to not just

23:30

announce everything they've announced, but to ship

23:33

everything they've made. Yeah, as many things as they've made. Yes.

23:36

So in the Windows space, these are minor

23:38

things, but they're actually so

23:40

much better than the junk we got

23:43

in those creator updates. Things like

23:45

background removal and paint, which sounds like

23:47

a silly thing to even talk about, but

23:49

I use Photoshop and I gotta tell you, it

23:52

works better than Photoshop and it's instantaneous.

23:54

It's fantastic. And that

23:56

is for someone who I'm not, I don't spend

23:58

a lot of time in this. I do have some art

24:02

background or whatever. So I'm a little bit, I can sort

24:04

of figure this stuff out a little bit. But for someone, most

24:07

people don't and can't. And for something

24:09

like that to work so well, it's

24:12

just amazing. Photos has some stuff going on. There's

24:15

text recognition functionality in the

24:17

Snipping tool. I mean, like

24:20

I said, these are small things, but they actually benefit

24:22

a far larger audience than...

24:25

You think about the cumulative time saving and all of that. Yeah,

24:27

because it's only a few things here and

24:29

there, but everybody touches it. Right. So...

24:32

Yep. And it's just, you know, it's going to get better from here, right?

24:34

So this is, it's fascinating to me

24:37

that Microsoft has already integrated Copilot

24:39

into Windows. And yes, it's early

24:42

and it doesn't do much on the Windows. But it might

24:44

be what saves Windows. Like we all still

24:46

need an operating system, but which operating system was rapidly

24:48

becoming irrelevant? Yep. What? Now

24:51

you have... Windows needs saving? Well,

24:54

yeah. Well, in the sense that... Should I call

24:56

this Copilot weekly? I mean, is this something

24:58

I should be aware of? I

25:02

mean, Windows, according to Microsoft, 1.4

25:05

billion users. A billion of them are

25:07

on 10, right? What a slop. Yeah. Yeah,

25:11

well, but they're in different ways of measuring

25:13

success. You've got to remember, like a lot of the usage

25:15

of Windows is just inertia, right? It's just people

25:17

who have been, I should say, companies that

25:20

have been on this platform and they rely on the

25:22

whole Microsoft stack. And so, of course, you

25:24

know, they stick with that. They have a choice of hardware

25:26

so they can buy hardware in bulk from PC makers

25:28

like HP. And they have a massive investment in the ecosystem

25:31

that manages it. Yeah. It's not a trivial

25:33

thing to switch. Right. So again, I

25:35

don't mean to suggest, like if it wasn't for inertia,

25:37

Windows would be useless. It's not like that. But

25:40

there is this... The thing

25:43

that Windows doesn't have, and I've been talking about

25:45

this for years, is this notion of engagement

25:47

from users, right? From actual

25:49

individuals. Today, all of

25:51

our engagement as people is on little mobile,

25:54

you know, phones and mostly phones, right? And

25:56

because that's where all the fun stuff is, right? And PCs

25:58

are where you go for work and that's... It's not fun. So

26:01

engagement is low. We get in, we do our work,

26:03

and we get out. I think this is the, I'm

26:06

sorry, I happily game on my 4K

26:08

screen. Yes, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to say

26:10

that. That's not absolute, but you are also the

26:12

age you are. So we kind of fall

26:15

into that bucket. Part of the PC master race is true.

26:17

Exactly. So this is

26:20

why I think AAI is so cool for Microsoft and

26:23

for people who care about Windows or use Windows or whatever. It's

26:25

going to hopefully

26:28

take us out of the terribleness of

26:31

what happened, I'll call it 10 years again, of

26:34

either Microsoft broadly

26:36

sort of ignoring Windows or

26:38

worse, just acting malicious

26:40

through Windows. Well, right. Part

26:42

of this is that Microsoft had been a Windows Center company

26:44

for 30 years. Yeah. And then it

26:47

wasn't. Yeah. And so Windows is just trying to figure out what

26:49

am I about? And also, I used to be the

26:51

focus of everything and now they're not. I think there

26:53

was also a very real

26:55

and Wall Street driven desire to prove

26:58

to the world that Windows wasn't that important

27:00

anymore. It was new stuff that was important. Yeah.

27:03

And the fact, well, it was useful from

27:05

a shareholder perspective to show that the company had

27:07

pivoted. That's right. Right. Become

27:09

a new cloud company. Yeah, but at the same time, people

27:12

still need operating systems. I know. So,

27:15

look, all I'm saying is, I will

27:17

see what really happens, but over

27:20

a period of time, not just in the past few months, but I've

27:22

already seen improvements to Windows that I think are

27:24

meaningful and are much

27:27

more meaningful than the stuff that they tried

27:29

to do, whatever. So, I mean, the adjacent

27:31

thought here would be, how is M365 co-pilot on a map? Right.

27:37

Right. Because if these

27:39

machine learning models are what's gonna make Windows distinctive,

27:42

I mean, the Office team cares about

27:44

as many platforms as they can get their hands on. They're

27:46

not about Windows. It's, well, so

27:49

actually, this is part of the problem of

27:52

the complexity of Microsoft 365, right? So,

27:54

there are native apps that run on Windows. There are

27:56

native apps that run on the Mac. Yeah.

27:58

They're different. There are different schedules,

28:01

different teams, et cetera. There's

28:03

the web version, which I think should be the focus,

28:05

frankly, of those apps. Those things should

28:07

be made into PWAs, as offline support, et cetera.

28:09

So, Google-y. Well, it

28:12

is 2023. I'm just saying, maybe it's

28:14

time. And then there are the mobile apps, right? These

28:17

are all different teams, different groups, different whatever, but

28:19

Microsoft 365 has this overall

28:22

desire to do the AI

28:24

thing, and they're gonna do it across us. But, you

28:26

know, we've been following Microsoft 365 since

28:28

it was a thing. And the one thing I can tell you

28:30

is that it's very complex trying

28:32

to keep up with what they're doing with this product.

28:35

Yeah. Because it's so big, and it hits

28:37

on so many different places. So, you just

28:39

talk about an app like Word, literally.

28:42

There are four, let me think, five

28:45

major native app versions of

28:47

Word in the world. Right. Five. So,

28:50

if they introduce a feature, whatever it is, like

28:52

one of the big ones was that auto transcription

28:54

of audio recordings, which is a fantastic feature.

28:57

You can read Word on the web, not

28:59

in Windows, not in the Mac, not on mobile.

29:02

You

29:03

know, the matrix of where features

29:05

get applied is very complicated. That

29:07

might be a cool graph to build out. Yeah. It's

29:10

just so that there's no complete version of any product.

29:13

Right. So, depending on who you are, you probably

29:15

have access to a native desktop

29:17

version of some kind. You obviously have

29:19

access to the web version, and you have access to

29:22

one of the mobile versions, depending on which phone you use.

29:25

So, which one has which features,

29:27

and it's complicated. And I think it's gonna

29:29

get more complicated with Compilot

29:31

for Microsoft 365, because a

29:34

lot of that stuff is very app-specific.

29:37

And then some of it is more broad. It works across

29:39

the apps. And I think the primary

29:41

interface has to be the web. I really do.

29:45

I know. Yeah.

29:47

I'm really looking, I mean, you know, so

29:51

I have some strong opinions all of a sudden on

29:53

H. That's

29:55

where all of a sudden? All of a sudden. Well,

29:57

I've come around a little bit. I think it's a mistake.

30:00

to do something general and

30:03

something general does have to be on the web. I think

30:05

the real strength I'm starting to think and

30:08

this is because I started playing with these new GPTs

30:10

that OpenAI did is

30:12

creating expert systems. So I

30:15

created a GPT that knows everything

30:17

there's to know about Lisp. I gave it every book I have

30:19

on Lisp, every website and

30:21

I can query it about Lisp. That's probably

30:24

small enough I'm actually downloading

30:26

some Tubby models right now. It's

30:28

a finite data set. It's a finite

30:30

data set. It's probably small enough to run locally which

30:32

is cheaper, faster, etc.

30:37

So you know if you wanted to know everything

30:39

there is to know about your car you get the manuals, put

30:42

them in an expert system and query

30:44

it locally. Those to me seem

30:46

like A you don't have some hallucinations, you

30:48

actually tell the GPTs. Right, they're gonna be more reliable.

30:50

You say specifically the GPT do not give

30:53

me any answer that doesn't come directly from

30:55

the material I've given you. Don't make stuff

30:57

up. So I think that

30:59

there is in some sense something that you have

31:02

locally that's an expert system

31:05

that might be about more useful to

31:07

me. I agree. I can't

31:10

remember if we talked about this before we started recording

31:12

or since but this notion of small language

31:14

models and which are useful

31:16

obviously on local devices but also

31:18

in the cloud for finite data

31:21

sets right more efficient less

31:23

cost effective etc better performance.

31:26

I bring some training because

31:29

I mean these GPTs start with open AI

31:31

and I think that's what's telling you how to put a sentence together.

31:34

You know there's some stuff that you need to do

31:36

but so I'm downloading I'm trying

31:39

this there's a open source

31:42

projects to run these locally

31:44

and you do have to download an LLM. Usually

31:47

it's lambda or something like that. I think if you

31:49

extrapolate out what you just said so you're

31:51

talking about a very finite topic

31:55

lisp. It's an expert system.

31:58

In the old school AI that's what we call.

32:01

Yeah, so that's the 1970s. Yeah, so that's the

32:03

spectrum. The other one is just the entire internet and

32:06

it's just what it is. Yeah, and oddly enough,

32:08

it's weird. Yeah, yeah, right. It's

32:10

the internet. So, but in between

32:12

is, and probably right in the

32:14

middle of those two, is this Microsoft, Copilot for

32:16

Microsoft 365. Because you are working with

32:18

a finite set of data. It's a lot of data. It could

32:20

be in an enterprise, but it's all internal

32:23

data of different types, right?

32:25

This stuff comes out of databases, SharePoint,

32:28

OneDrive, your calendar, Outlook system,

32:30

and all that kind of stuff, email meetings, meeting

32:32

transcriptions and notes, and who said what, and who did

32:34

what, and who said what we're going to do. And you can

32:38

work with that data set. It's still,

32:40

it's going to be cloud-based, right? It's not, this

32:42

is not a hybrid system per se, but

32:45

it is, but it's for a cloud-based

32:48

data set. It's manageable, I

32:50

think. And I think that's the, obviously,

32:53

when Microsoft puts out Copilot for Microsoft 365,

32:56

specifically to enterprises that can

32:58

have 300 or more seats, they

33:01

are, they are worried about something. They're very specifically

33:03

limiting it, yes. And

33:05

so, well, you know, we're going to, they're going to learn, and

33:07

we're going to learn how that works. But

33:10

I think it's compelling. I mean, I think it's very interesting. I mean,

33:13

even the individual level,

33:16

and this is something, this would be more hybrid,

33:18

I would imagine, because we all have, well,

33:21

people in this world would have data

33:23

in one drive as an individual. That could be photos,

33:25

right, as well as just

33:27

documents for work or whatever. They're

33:30

going to have their email, right, hopefully going through Outlook.com

33:32

or whatever in Outlook, right? And so there's that.

33:35

You are, as an individual, your

33:38

own form of kind of data

33:40

set, aggregation

33:42

across multiple sources. And

33:44

it's, to me, it's even easier,

33:47

if that's the right word, to kind

33:49

of encapsulate all that for

33:52

an individual, you know, than it is for a

33:54

business of any size. So

33:56

I think this stuff is all going to happen.

34:00

Microsoft's big. I

34:02

think the thing that drove the cloud explosion that we

34:04

don't really talk about a lot is the hybrid stuff

34:07

right because you had. Well that was just

34:09

a discovery it's like listen yeah not everything

34:11

belongs to the no one solution for anything you're

34:13

coming here and going to there we're

34:15

not going 100% never do right. So

34:18

that's that was a big that that helped Microsoft a

34:20

lot because when you're a cloud first company

34:23

like a Google or an Amazon they don't have

34:25

that yeah to offer those

34:28

companies and that's part of that inertia thing I was talking

34:30

about this. And now you see like our

34:32

works perfectly well on your on-prem servers too

34:34

so the same instrumentation as we've been taking

34:36

care of your cloud VMS right even

34:38

in a WS but then also

34:41

on-prem so they're really flattening

34:43

that doesn't matter where you're running your stuff we can help.

34:46

Yeah. You

34:48

talk about clip champ I do you do yeah you do I

34:50

do it so unfortunately

34:52

there's not much to talk about from a features

34:55

perspective well there's a little bit.

34:59

Microsoft had again probably back and

35:01

build and may announce that clip champ

35:03

would be coming to Microsoft 365 commercial

35:05

customers it is available today

35:08

along with Microsoft designer which is a there

35:10

sort of. What's

35:12

the low end Adobe the free Adobe product

35:14

like a canva or what do you call

35:16

it Adobe Express kind of a solution

35:19

but you know again integrated into the whole Microsoft

35:21

ecosystem it's pretty good it's fine. But

35:25

the reason this is exciting is because

35:27

all these Microsoft 365 commercial

35:29

users have associated

35:32

one drive slash SharePoint storage. As

35:35

an individual you could anyone can use clip

35:37

champ I should talk about that a little bit more it's free

35:39

and it's great but one of the things you don't

35:41

get for free is. Constarts and they

35:43

don't even integrate with one drive which you think they would

35:45

write so they want you to buy that subscription for now

35:48

I hope that changes but. You know if you

35:50

think about it whatever assets you might have to put into

35:52

a video should be stored in the cloud

35:54

should be available in any computer it's a it's

35:56

a web app I should be able to go to any PC in open

35:59

at the. project and have it just work. But because

36:03

you have to pay for that basically now, it's

36:06

hard to impossible. I found even if I

36:08

have the exact same files in the same locations in the file

36:10

system, it just doesn't work. There's something,

36:12

it just doesn't, you have to re kind

36:15

of apply each asset. But in a business

36:17

situation, in the enterprise, you

36:19

will be using their storage for that stuff. Of course

36:22

you will. There'll be collections

36:24

of assets for you to use with corporate

36:27

logos and whatever. And that

36:29

will always be available. So now they integrate

36:32

on the back end with that stuff. And that's super smart.

36:34

Again, I really need this to come to individuals

36:36

because we all have OneDrive if we're using clip

36:38

tramp. But in the

36:41

commercial space now, that does work. So

36:43

that's great.

36:44

Awesome. Yeah.

36:45

Well, I'm

36:47

glad you got the clip champion. I felt

36:51

the urge, the need. Let's take a little

36:53

pause that refreshes and

36:56

we'll return Windows Weekly coming

36:58

to you from Microsoft Ignite in Seattle proper

37:00

or Redmond? Seattle proper. Seattle

37:03

proper. We're convention center. Nice. Paul

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back to the show. Alright

38:35

we go back to Seattle, Washington.

38:37

Is it raining? No. But

38:40

it's chilly. It's cold and

38:42

fricking crisp. It's colder

38:45

here than it is at home. Well it's the humidity. It's

38:47

damp. It's damp. Yeah. It's

38:50

a damp. It was 75 degrees every day in Mexico

38:52

and here it's 35. I know. And

38:55

here's sporty. It's just like Madeira Park, right?

38:57

You probably can walk here. Yeah,

38:59

yeah. The Matt Park is pretty much the same. Well you should

39:01

do a little camera pan. Yeah.

39:04

Oh yeah. Let's see it. Play

39:06

with the guitar. We're in a bubble. You have

39:09

the means. You have a PTZ. Oh look.

39:11

Yep. Yep. I

39:14

think that's about as much as a jittery. Yeah, that's

39:17

sort of the limits of how far it can go. So

39:19

that's our door out. I'm surprised. I'm

39:21

surprised. I'm surprised. There's no

39:23

fans with their nose pressed to the glass

39:26

or anything. No one knows we're here. Yeah,

39:28

I know. It's all very... It's hard

39:30

to explain but this is a new convention

39:32

center that's built basically on the next block

39:35

from the old one, right? It's a connect bridge

39:37

but we're not using the old place. It's

39:39

five stories tall I think. Yep. Including

39:42

a basement or whatever. We are in the furthest, the

39:44

top, the topest floor and the furthest quarter

39:47

of it. Yeah. Which I mean we're

39:49

making a podcast base is a good thing to do. The

39:52

food is between... Oh, that's good. That's

39:54

all the podcast is really care about. Where's

39:57

the food? Yeah. We should have had

39:59

I known and we didn't know. thought you might even be doing this from a hotel

40:01

had I known we would have

40:03

made a big banner that says you

40:05

know with arrows saying right here Paul and

40:07

Richard come here right here.

40:10

Yeah well it

40:12

worked out hey there's one last ignite thing that was the

40:15

top of the conversation that's right that's

40:17

right and that was the building their own hardware yeah

40:19

and cobalt and

40:21

Maya and then the Maya rack

40:24

which I Rick Clustropped in on

40:26

us said by the way they had to spill the special nature

40:28

that so they had a double wide 42

40:31

or 50 you rack unit that they

40:34

call Maya and a one side

40:36

is all compute units

40:39

and then it then on the other half

40:42

is all cooling right and so they're

40:44

using copper plate liquid

40:47

cooling this is just giant

40:49

it looks like the

40:52

radiator from an F 250 or 350 truck or maybe

40:54

like a hot tub it might be

40:58

and then like when you think about like

41:00

a heat what do you call this like a thing on a CPU

41:02

like a heat dispensing yeah it

41:05

was like that but it was the size of a Volkswagen yeah

41:08

and apparently it would have gone straight through the normal stage

41:11

and where is this because they used to put it down on

41:13

if you watch the keynote the guy has to walk over like 20

41:16

feet to get to it is because it couldn't go

41:19

in the location but it speaks

41:21

to and it only makes sense like why are

41:24

they buying commercial hardware I'm sure they're buying it

41:26

at a discount yeah but you

41:28

now are soon to see specific optimizations and

41:30

such it was big on you know GPU

41:33

workload we saw Google do

41:35

this we saw that Facebook do this Facebook

41:37

actually has an open standard for servers

41:40

and I think a lot of people using like yeah yeah

41:43

waiting yeah so when our Microsoft has

41:46

its first ever cloud-based

41:48

you know Azure data center CPU

41:52

in the form I think that one's Maya right cobalt

41:54

cobalt which is an

41:56

arm chipset yeah right very interesting

41:58

64-bit hundred 128 cores that

42:01

ship is the size of a dinner plate. It's

42:03

unbelievably big If

42:07

you can palm a basketball you might be able to hold

42:09

it in one hand How

42:11

many transistors so this is the comparison

42:14

I have my new Macbook Pro

42:16

with the billion

42:19

transistors How many in

42:21

this know that we got a trip if it's this big

42:23

question and it's got an F1 50 heat sink I

42:26

mean, that's a it's five nanometer.

42:29

It's five nanometer Wow Wow

42:33

So who makes this is this chip

42:35

not Microsoft? Yeah, I did not really

42:37

say yeah, so we may be produced from from

42:41

From TSMC, but the dichotomy was

42:43

hilarious Yeah, but at the same time they're talking

42:45

about building their own ship the very next conversation

42:47

is with the CEO of Nvidia I know yeah,

42:50

so right this is we will try to turn

42:52

down the language here, but it was Yeah,

42:55

so they introduced their AI accelerator

42:57

chip. I don't know why they call it an MPU, but whatever

43:00

which is I guess was Maya and then the

43:03

the CPU and then They

43:07

brought out it was they did a video they'd live

43:09

in the Indian transistors five billion transistors

43:12

hundred and five onion Yeah,

43:15

the largest chips in the five nanometer process

43:17

Well

43:19

on the cobalt GP is CPU

43:21

Yeah, so you know in the sense that

43:23

Apple is always trying to replace their partners

43:26

with in-house products services

43:29

Microsoft appears to be trying to do that as well,

43:31

right? So I don't remember I think it was

43:34

this CPU or I

43:36

got was the CPU the GPU but Or

43:38

the accelerator was you know 40 percent

43:41

more efficient than whatever I must have been

43:43

a CPU because they were it was they were basing it on the arm Whatever

43:45

arm chips that they had been using previously, which

43:48

is huge because this is the goal right to reduce the

43:50

cost prove the efficiency

43:54

And you know, they're on that path, but then

43:56

they brought up the CEO

43:59

of Nvidia for extended period of

44:01

time by the way.

44:03

And you just got the feeling like they're

44:07

going to replace. And lastly, Nvidia shows

44:09

up with a miracle. Well, and this is the real question

44:11

is, what's Nvidia's next trip? Right.

44:14

Right. Yeah. We were talking earlier, you know,

44:16

Nvidia trip their way into their current, they're

44:18

one of the, they're the biggest ship maker in the world right

44:21

now. Yeah. By what? I guess

44:23

by market cap. But they, they're

44:26

so successful because

44:28

they were making GPUs for gaming PCs,

44:30

which is a small business, yet, ultimately speaking,

44:33

then crypto, but then this stuff happened,

44:35

right? And this, for

44:37

some, I mean, just lucky roll of the dice.

44:40

Yeah. This, these

44:42

workloads are, work really

44:44

well on their current generation hardware.

44:48

If they don't keep that going, and video, I think we've

44:50

talked about this a little bit before. I mean, they won't

44:52

disappear, but imagine what Google

44:54

would look like if they didn't have searched slash

44:56

advertised, right? You know, that's what Nvidia is going

44:59

to look like. If Microsoft

45:01

and the rest of the world can figure out how to make

45:03

more efficient, cost-effective, super

45:06

bright, AI accelerators, I guess we'll call them.

45:08

Yeah. So I'm, and the other

45:10

side of this of course, is they have hundreds

45:13

of data centers, racks and racks,

45:15

racks and machines. Like you're not going to replace that quickly.

45:17

Right. So I mean, we're still, we're

45:19

still showing the CPU in your hand because

45:22

that's how few there are. Right. You

45:24

know, there are one data center is going to start to go in

45:26

cobalt. They're going to start evaluating the workloads and

45:28

look at the lifespan. Yeah. Does it kind of

45:30

run at full board for five years? Like does it work?

45:32

And maybe there are certain workloads

45:35

that do work better with that or within video with

45:37

AMD or whatever it might be. By the time you're really

45:39

confident that it can take on a major chunk of workload, you

45:41

want to start replacing things and video should have something

45:44

different. I hope so. Yeah. Do

45:46

you want to talk about greenwashing? I

45:50

have nothing to point to. Right. But

45:53

every conversation about, and this

45:55

is zero carbon and this is

45:58

recovered energy and so forth. feel

46:00

like I always want to read the poem because

46:03

because every time I do I'm disappointed.

46:05

Yeah. I mean, they

46:07

turn this thing on and the city's lights dim,

46:10

you know, it's not like there's some

46:12

magical reverse switch where they're

46:14

pumping electricity back onto the grid.

46:16

No, like this, you know, this stuff,

46:19

you know, it's expensive and it uses

46:21

a lot of energy. Yeah. That

46:23

you know, our world runs on compute. So hopefully

46:27

they're building out low emission

46:29

energy for it. You know, these

46:31

data centers are getting big. You're going to start wanting your own

46:33

power plants, you know, you know,

46:36

and I hate for better or worse that I do a whole set of

46:38

shows on this over on dotnet rocks with the geek. It's

46:40

like small modular nuclear little 60 megawatters.

46:43

Right. Oh, and a pair of those go a long way

46:45

to run a data set. Yeah,

46:47

there's some issues there. Yeah.

46:50

It's what business are you in? Yep.

46:52

Do you run your own power plant? I don't know the answer to

46:54

that. It's really something. I

46:58

got to do a shift to dotnet comp yesterday. Yes.

47:00

I watched. You saw me. I liked it. I was

47:02

doing the MC gig, which is a pretty fun gig. Yeah. I

47:05

get to introduce all of it. That's neat. Yeah.

47:08

It was a good dotnet comp. Dotnet 8 is an important version

47:10

of dotnet. Yeah. So,

47:12

so why? I mean, what's the big deal?

47:15

There's a bunch of stuff that came together on that. It

47:17

is, it is a little LTS. Yeah.

47:19

It is a long-term support one, but that's becoming

47:21

less meaningful. Some companies

47:24

are big on,

47:25

on

47:26

the, okay. It's a three year version. Actually, you

47:28

know, a quick diversion here. Yeah.

47:30

Obviously the old

47:32

dotnet, the dotnet, we know from back in the

47:35

day, the 4.8. Yeah.

47:38

The dotnet framework or whatever. Right. So

47:41

this is a thing that still ships on windows. It

47:43

depends on it. It's a part, right. It's tied to the windows

47:45

support lifecycle. It's tied to windows. Right.

47:48

It also has a two 10 year. Because

47:50

it's because of when it was invented or, you

47:52

know, implemented. Yep. So yeah.

47:55

So when it 4.8 actually is a

47:58

fairly recent release. Yeah. So

48:00

it's gonna be in Windows forever. But then there's

48:02

this other thing. Remember the VB runtime

48:04

is still in Windows. Yes, that's right.

48:07

And it really hasn't had anything happen to it since 99. Yep.

48:11

It is forever.

48:12

Yeah, it sure is.

48:15

So the new .NET, maybe

48:17

not obviously, but it is cross-platform

48:19

and open source. Yeah, an annual release

48:21

gate. And what was it, between

48:24

the 3.x and 5.0 version, it

48:27

became .NET. When they went to 5.0, they

48:29

said it's .NET. This is the new .NET.

48:32

So this is something that's revved annually. It's on a

48:34

very predictable development cycle. It'll

48:36

be November 13th. The life cycle

48:39

is 18 months or three years, depending

48:41

on every other year. Yeah, well, it's really two versions.

48:43

Or

48:44

five versions. There you go.

48:47

So what's the, I mean, how do

48:49

you explain it? What's your elevated pitch for .NET? What

48:51

else? Well, I mean, why

48:54

this LTS, like that whole effect is really,

48:58

the point is to stay up, right? It's to use

49:00

the new versions. And one of the big things has

49:02

always been performance improvements. That

49:04

you can take your existing .NET 7 app, and

49:07

recompile it with .NET 8, and not only does it just work,

49:09

it's faster. Right, right. And if nothing

49:11

else changed, that's still a huge benefit. And

49:14

then the question is, are you using the new features? Like

49:16

this new language constructs in C Sharp 12,

49:20

a bunch of the new capabilities in. It's

49:23

also a cool thing. So you can compile to native code,

49:26

if you want to, and you don't need to have the support libraries or anything.

49:28

No. Once upon a time,

49:31

we did the whole DLL approach to save

49:33

memory. Remember, we needed to save

49:35

memory and disk space. If

49:38

we don't need to do those things, now it's more about reliability.

49:40

Compile it as a complete executable, with everything.

49:42

It's a standalone exe, yeah. And it'll run. And you

49:45

just don't care about versions of anything at that

49:47

point. Right. Yeah, so .NET,

49:50

in general, but .NET 8 specifically, encompasses

49:52

so many different software

49:55

platforms, I guess we'll call them. Yeah. Obviously

49:58

.NET MAUI, all the different ASP. Yeah,

50:00

Flick Blazer and a new version of Blazer Yeah And

50:03

so what one of the things that made it important

50:05

was this kind of the third version of Maui And

50:08

so and it's kind of the third version of Blazer at the same

50:10

time and Microsoft has a knack for the third

50:13

versions Or it is real. I mean this is real. Yeah,

50:15

not this is not a one-off. We still talk about

50:17

it This is actually still happens. It's not happening. It

50:19

makes sense you get the first bits out there and

50:21

what it what you didn't get done Shows

50:25

up in the second version and then

50:27

you've gotten enough feedback of utilization That

50:29

the third one is the one where you really

50:31

have customer feedback into

50:34

it. There's also a neat thing I want part

50:36

of the show I watched with you or I'm seeing was with David

50:38

and Maddie talking about dynamo and right notion that

50:40

You know because of the new way that software is developed

50:43

You don't really go you go in with some goals

50:45

for this version, but you can actually accomplish more It's

50:48

it's it's created in the open. They're

50:50

taking PR around. Yeah push request

50:52

pull requests from Users on the

50:54

outside of Microsoft and a bunch of them get integrated

50:56

into the product And so when version 8

50:59

actually comes out they actually delivered more

51:02

than they had a promise But

51:04

yeah, because of the community itself.

51:06

Yeah, which is really fascinating. Yeah, that's

51:09

the place that we're at now So I mean

51:11

it was a good time was that by

51:13

all it's frustrating that

51:15

they're the same Yeah, so to be clear,

51:18

right so we have Microsoft ignite here and yeah And

51:20

then dotnet comp has been

51:22

a virtual that I guess always been a virtual event

51:25

and how many years does that been going? Since

51:28

before so Yeah, 2017

51:31

2016. Yeah, and so but it's always

51:33

been a virtual event out of the studios what

51:36

used to be called I know I channelized. Yeah,

51:38

I don't want that the MS MS

51:40

NBC that there was a right now. It's called dev

51:43

rels. Okay I still have a picture of a Not

51:46

to call it's not an office, but it looked like the

51:48

control area of the Death Star and star

51:50

Yeah, and it just it looked

51:52

like this is where a big brother controls the world from

51:54

it You know the joke is in

51:57

Star Wars that control panel.

51:59

Yeah with a laser? That

52:02

is an audio control panel. Oh no, really?

52:05

I didn't know that. Oh, that's hysterical. Of course

52:07

it is. Yeah, they repurpose, of course it is. Yeah,

52:09

they didn't make anything, they just took an actual,

52:12

what the odds, looks right, got the

52:14

square blinking lights, let's go. That's

52:16

very funny. Yeah, so that was back when MSNBC

52:18

was their ongoing, because this is the state's

52:20

back then. And they still have the double lock set, right?

52:23

Because it was a business with a business kind of thing, and

52:25

it's still there, it's a nuisance to go

52:27

to those studios. Is it in New Jersey, where is it?

52:30

No, it's in the campus in Redmond. It's

52:32

building 25. In Redmond, okay. Yeah, about

52:34

the side of 25. I

52:36

have a lot of memories from that building. Anyway,

52:38

so yeah, so it was, you

52:41

went over and emceed part of that show. Yeah, I got a four-hour

52:43

shift. And they do, what is it, three days? It's

52:45

live, mostly live? Yeah, the first day is sort of your traditional

52:47

single track, keynotes,

52:50

presentations for the product teams, you know,

52:52

that sort of thing. And then there's an online

52:54

party at the end of the day. Right. And

52:57

then the second day, they go to

52:59

a 24-hour around the world.

53:02

So there are presenters literally all around

53:05

the world. They get involved

53:07

so that it becomes this huge

53:09

community event. Yeah, and like

53:12

Ignite, if you don't get to watch any of that live, it's

53:14

no problem. It's all going to be there. Everything's recorded

53:16

up on YouTube or whatever. Yeah, but

53:19

it's, they,

53:21

there are folks who stay up all night to watch

53:23

this stuff. Right? And they're friends,

53:26

too, like all of these MVPs and things, like

53:28

everybody submits to be a part of

53:30

.NET Conf and to show off what you've

53:32

done with the product. It has a kind

53:35

of a homespun quality, too, that I really like. It

53:37

is the polar opposite in some ways of this big

53:40

orchestrated event. Yeah, with our hanging light

53:42

thing. Yeah, exactly. It is much more

53:45

homegrown. Yeah, I like it. I

53:48

mean, like Twitter, yeah, that's the way to go. I love

53:50

that. Yeah, just kind of folksy

53:52

down home, sitting around the

53:54

cracker barrel, chewing the fat. Not

53:56

a big city developer, but if I was. But

54:01

you know, it's fun. It

54:03

sounds like more fun, frankly. Yeah, it is.

54:05

It really is. It's more personable. Yeah.

54:07

Yeah. So, yeah, Scott Hansel was on

54:10

it like, you know, David Dork, Scott, and I love him. Got

54:12

it. Yeah. And Scott Hunter and Paul

54:14

Yuck wrapped up. Yeah. I saw that. Yeah. And

54:16

there Scott Hunter came down from his cloud

54:19

of prominence. Well, the other

54:21

big piece was David Fowler, who's now a distinguished

54:24

engineer. And I always refer to him. I was a distinguished engineer,

54:26

David Fowler. Nice. Who is

54:28

leading the Aspire project. Okay.

54:30

So that was one of the things that... We should talk about that. Aspire.

54:33

Aspire. Not Inspire. Not Inspire. Aspire.

54:35

Aspire. And actually, if you think about it, it's a pretty

54:37

darn good name in the sense of it's

54:40

making real, real

54:42

cloud software. Yeah. Right? Like

54:45

this is about a tool suite and a working

54:47

environment for software that's going

54:49

to be natively cloud. So, it's

54:52

going to be elastic in scale. It's

54:54

going to be... It's not. It shouldn't be able

54:56

to run anywhere. Platform agnostic. And

54:58

so, really David's been

55:00

leading the initiative to put all

55:02

the pieces together. Like all of this was out there.

55:05

You could do it. It was just hard. Yeah. And

55:07

so now to say, hey, it's like... Well, you want to

55:09

use a tool and have a cup. Just wind up

55:11

all the pieces you need and it's like in your...

55:14

The old line is like, I want to follow the pit

55:16

of success. Right? And so like

55:18

the making mistakes is harder

55:20

in the tool. Yeah. Tends to lead you to

55:22

the right things to do for providing high-scalability,

55:25

manageability, instrumentation and diagnosis.

55:28

I meant to look this up and I just ran out of time.

55:30

We've been kind of busy today, but sometime this

55:32

past summer, Microsoft kind of came out with sort

55:34

of a formal proposal for

55:36

this thing. And the idea was that we're going to

55:39

kind of formalize what a web app means.

55:41

Right. Like a cloud app. I should say

55:43

a cloud app. Excuse me. And

55:46

at the basis, there'll be some number of cloud

55:49

services or cloud infrastructure. It's agnostic.

55:51

You can plug in, you can just be on AWS

55:53

or whatever. You could have

55:55

whatever data sources you want.

55:58

But there's going to be this kind of a standard. And

56:00

Aspire, as I understand it, is almost like the

56:03

dot net eight implementation

56:06

of this CNCF, or the cloud

56:08

native standards for how you want

56:10

to build. It was kind of a surprise too, right? They did

56:12

Telegraph. Yeah, they held onto it pretty

56:14

well. It seems to be well received.

56:20

It's an aspirational goal

56:22

to build software that runs well. That's

56:24

the name. That's the way I think

56:26

of it. And I'm delighted to see that

56:29

new project like that. Exactly that problem.

56:32

It's like, hey, just give me a starting point

56:35

so that when I start building my app the

56:37

way I know how to build it, I'm not crippling myself

56:39

for doing more in the cloud. The

56:42

part of dot net that I care about the most now,

56:45

I guess, is dot net Maui. And

56:48

part of it involves that seven

56:50

stages of grief over the death of the native

56:53

Windows app, that this isn't a thing anymore.

56:56

But it exists. Informs

56:59

is still there. It is. Is

57:01

that exists? Is it in a coma

57:03

somewhere? I mean, it's, you know. I know, technically

57:06

it's active. And hundreds of thousands

57:08

of apps just still using it and still being.

57:11

If you're looking for a modern framework, a

57:13

modern environment, whatever it might be, to build

57:15

a native Windows app, Maui

57:18

is sort of it. It's kind of interesting because it's WinUI 3

57:20

on Windows, but

57:23

it's also cross platform. And

57:25

the stages of grief thing is based on the

57:27

fact that back in the day, there

57:29

would be these formal standards

57:32

for title bars and window buttons and

57:34

how controls work. The MDI standard. Yeah. And

57:38

it's a little looser today, but there's

57:40

also this notion of what I'll call, for

57:43

lack of a better term, modern app and modern

57:45

app kind of design templates

57:48

or whatever, design designs,

57:50

whatever. And again,

57:53

a little looser, but these are

57:55

the apps, if you open up say, Notepad's

57:58

an interesting example because it's a modern. UI

58:00

on top of old code. But if

58:02

you go into settings, the settings is not a

58:04

dialogue. It's part of the app. You

58:06

do your thing. You get out. It's

58:08

just a design pattern. It's just a different style. And

58:11

Maui supports all that stuff. So because

58:14

it's cross-platform, you can flutter

58:16

might be, or a web app can be. You're

58:18

going to write a net. You're not going to write a Windows app, really, right? You're writing

58:20

an app that runs on iOS and Android.

58:24

And Mac through Catalyst and

58:26

Windows. And what

58:28

they've been doing over the past three versions is

58:32

putting more and more desktop-specific

58:34

functionality in there. Because

58:36

they started with Xamarin.Forms because they had iOS and

58:38

Android nailed it. Although there was plenty to fix

58:40

in Xamarin.Forms still. Yeah, for sure. But

58:43

they did the desktop stuff. It's a simpler project.

58:46

It's getting better. But

58:48

landing it on desktop, well, this is the same problem

58:50

that Flutter has. Yeah. Oh, yeah, exactly.

58:53

But the thing that's interesting is it really

58:55

benefits the whole world because you

58:57

have an iOS app. We'll call it. It could run on the iPad.

59:00

And you want it to look different. You want it to

59:02

fill the screen and look different. People could

59:05

have a touchpad and a keyboard. You want to have the keyboard

59:07

shortcuts. You want to have mouse pointer

59:09

interaction. And so you

59:11

could build this app that scales between these different

59:13

devices and different screen sizes and all that stuff. And

59:16

it's gotten better. And so it's never going to be that

59:18

thing I sort of always wanted from the beginning, which was

59:21

just Windows, because that doesn't make sense. And

59:23

also, just Windows, sort of classic

59:25

Windows. These are,

59:27

like I said, more modern design

59:31

patterns. I'm not even sure what to call them, sorry. And

59:34

a lot of old school people, like us, we

59:36

started to see this thing. And we're like, oh, come on, really? But

59:39

actually, this is the world. And

59:42

it's the one I always keep my eye on. It's very, very interested

59:44

in .moe. And I like watching it mature.

59:47

And like I said, it's a great time. Everybody's very

59:49

excited. And

59:52

the new version has done well. And

59:54

it'll be good to see the adoption. Yeah.

59:57

Right. Let's not a dev show. No,

1:00:00

it is not. There must be some overlap. I mean, they wouldn't

1:00:02

put it right next to Ignite. What

1:00:04

do you think the overlap is between the .NET Conf

1:00:07

and the Ignite? So, honestly, it should

1:00:10

have been at a different time or integrated into Ignite.

1:00:12

And Richard probably knows more about the politics

1:00:14

side of that. But yeah, I'm not

1:00:17

sure how much we can say, but okay. I

1:00:19

mean, a lot happened all at once. It's harder

1:00:21

to find a location for Ignite. And

1:00:24

.NET Conf isn't flexible because they ship

1:00:27

to a date, right? So there was these

1:00:29

things. Didn't have much overlap.

1:00:31

There is some dev content here at

1:00:33

the show. Not a lot, but some. It's

1:00:36

mostly- Yeah,

1:00:38

we didn't talk about a lot. Is

1:00:41

there some low-code stuff going

1:00:43

on in the Microsoft 365 space with

1:00:46

regards to making your own copilots,

1:00:48

right? And integrating data

1:00:50

sources, kind of pulling them in. And you're basically

1:00:52

doing a Power App kind of a instruction

1:00:55

of what is basically

1:00:58

a copilot. There's, well,

1:01:00

we talked about Windows AI. Actually, did

1:01:02

we? We might've skipped over this. The Windows-

1:01:05

Did we talk about the Windows dev stuff? I don't think we did. I

1:01:08

think we did not. So let's just do that really quickly because

1:01:11

we're kind of in the dev part of it. So

1:01:13

Microsoft announced something called Windows AI

1:01:16

Studio, which is built

1:01:18

on, just gonna

1:01:20

get this right, Azure AI Studio. Right, right. We

1:01:23

need more studios. Because we need more studios. Yeah,

1:01:26

copilot was the number one term we used today,

1:01:28

but Studio, I think, was number two. It's up there. This

1:01:31

is not a new product. It's

1:01:34

not a new app. It's what Microsoft would

1:01:36

probably call it, experience that runs inside

1:01:38

of Visual Studio Code, like so much does these

1:01:40

days. And it

1:01:43

is a way for, so

1:01:47

Azure AI Studio is a way

1:01:49

to work with AI models in the cloud.

1:01:52

Windows AI Studio today is

1:01:54

a way to work with AI models

1:01:57

locally on device, but the long-term

1:01:59

vision for it was. What I've been very explicit about is

1:02:01

to combine these two things and do hybrid when they're in

1:02:03

search. In other words, you can create an AI-based

1:02:06

app with this thing. By

1:02:08

the way, probably in Maui, that would be one way if you were

1:02:10

going to run it locally on devices. And

1:02:13

in the future, you'll be able to integrate

1:02:15

with cloud-hosted AI. Use

1:02:19

what makes sense based on what it is you're

1:02:21

doing. So kind of a hybrid model. Yeah.

1:02:25

It's early days with that, right? There

1:02:27

was an update to Dev Home. Dev Home is something that

1:02:29

shipped technically in Windows 11 version 23H2. It's

1:02:33

in preview, right? So I think

1:02:35

the first, I think the version there is probably 0.6. They're

1:02:37

up to 0.7 now. And

1:02:40

that adds, I actually forget about that,

1:02:43

so much information here. A little bit

1:02:45

of overload. It's a minor update to Dev Home. Actually,

1:02:47

I apologize. I can't remember. But they also

1:02:49

added some functionality to WSL

1:02:52

for, sorry, the Windows subsystem for

1:02:54

Linux

1:02:55

for enterprises. Because

1:02:57

one of the issues there is that this

1:02:59

thing kind of sits there

1:03:01

unencumbered by all of your organizational

1:03:05

policies and whatnot. And

1:03:07

so now they can secure that at an organizational

1:03:10

level and manage it with Intune. So

1:03:13

now they have basically answered

1:03:15

the enterprise concern with this product by

1:03:17

making it fully manageable and controllable with

1:03:20

policy. So that's

1:03:22

just now something. WSL is a way

1:03:24

for developers mostly to do that. They

1:03:27

have to do both Linux

1:03:29

and Windows-based development on the

1:03:31

same boxes. So yeah,

1:03:34

so there's some interesting stuff there. By the way, that

1:03:36

also speaks to the importance of

1:03:38

Windows again, because

1:03:40

they want Windows to be the best place for developers. It's

1:03:43

a little goofy, honestly. They

1:03:46

bake developer features into 23H2, whether

1:03:49

you want them or not. So my wife, my

1:03:51

mother will all get Dev Home on their computers.

1:03:54

That's interesting. Everybody's a coder.

1:03:57

The hour of code's coming up. She could sit down,

1:03:59

do an hour. Actually actually Leo I don't

1:04:01

know maybe not paying attention, but AI is killing

1:04:03

coding so I don't know Remember

1:04:08

all those guys in Appalachia that we're gonna get out of coal

1:04:11

and learn how to code together there too

1:04:13

late Yeah,

1:04:17

I mean I mean I don't know if that's good, but

1:04:19

there might be some white after that I mean, you know

1:04:21

I look there's there's so many Stock

1:04:24

phrases we have now about AI and one of them

1:04:27

is that there should be a human sitting between

1:04:29

whatever AI Great. Yeah, and

1:04:31

that is there's no place that's more true

1:04:33

AI is your pal. It's not then I'm

1:04:35

not the leader It's a follower your co-pilot.

1:04:37

Oh Times

1:04:41

the co-pilot wants you to crash the place you gotta

1:04:43

be careful. Yeah, you know, we trust the co-pilot.

1:04:46

No, that's not

1:04:47

you there

1:04:48

so Yeah, right.

1:04:51

I think it's gonna be more true of them. So I got a big update

1:04:53

to 2382 like last night Hold

1:04:56

on but hold that thought we're gonna talk about winders The

1:05:00

other thing Microsoft does you might have heard of it?

1:05:03

Yep. Yep Still

1:05:06

there it's you know, you mentioned this earlier

1:05:08

Richard, but it's really true was the windows era And

1:05:11

for a while, I think wasn't it the office year like

1:05:13

they made more money in office than they did in Windows I

1:05:16

would I kind of combine those together It's like when

1:05:18

it's all the same windows in office was the foundation

1:05:20

of that and now it's out in there now It's

1:05:22

an expanded from small. Yeah,

1:05:24

groups Azure for sure Well,

1:05:27

I think I think we it still

1:05:29

is but I I Would say

1:05:31

that yes, but to me the era has Shifted

1:05:34

from cloud although obviously

1:05:37

a huge part to moment of it to AI right?

1:05:39

Yeah I think we're witnessing right now. That's what I was thinking.

1:05:41

I was very specific. Yeah Yeah,

1:05:44

I think so. That's how I speak or maybe it's

1:05:46

but it is since it's so tied to Azure But

1:05:49

that's why I'm thinking these expert systems running locally

1:05:51

may be very interesting So

1:05:54

I wrote about I actually just wrote about this it's very

1:05:56

interesting you look very high level you

1:05:58

you kind of can make the case not kind

1:06:01

of you can I have made the case that every

1:06:03

era at Microsoft is kind of based on the

1:06:05

foundation what came before you when that windows dominance

1:06:07

the 90s was bigger the sure EMS cost

1:06:10

dominance of the Amy right right the office

1:06:13

built on that of course and

1:06:15

then the cloud is based on that

1:06:17

transition that micro this business case study

1:06:20

will be talking about for ages they

1:06:22

made it a transition to the cloud

1:06:24

and it brought to more success

1:06:26

than ever so it's all you know everything is kind of based on

1:06:28

the past so this is no different AI relies

1:06:31

on and couldn't happen without what had happened before

1:06:33

with cloud yeah I like it

1:06:35

all right well we're gonna go back to the old-timer

1:06:38

windows in just a second but yeah we're sure but

1:06:40

first a word from our sponsors

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we think thanks we love these guys we're

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gonna use TeamR fantastic for

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supporting our shows for so long. Now let's

1:11:59

go back to... Seattle what do you say and Paul

1:12:01

and rich Paul the

1:12:03

rot Richard Campbell are in Seattle

1:12:05

for Microsoft ignite Bit

1:12:08

more of a journey for Paul than it was for Richard.

1:12:10

I just drove down but

1:12:12

I now Very

1:12:14

to I somehow managed to turn a 2500 mile trip into a

1:12:16

14-hour slide. Oh, that's cuz flying. Hey Well

1:12:23

because so what where I live now There's

1:12:25

a lot of advantages to it and but one of

1:12:27

the problems is it takes us 90 minutes to get

1:12:29

to an act like A real airport like Newark.

1:12:31

Yeah, Philadelphia then you know Newark. Yeah,

1:12:33

so if it right you Macungee

1:12:36

Airport, I saw the picture I flew out of the Allentown.

1:12:38

Yeah the Allentown,

1:12:41

Bethlehem, Emmaus AB

1:12:45

it is the the

1:12:48

Lehigh Valley International Airport because there's one

1:12:50

Canada and It's

1:12:53

smaller than my driveway But it's a fun little airport

1:12:55

and I said if I'm gonna do this I'm flying

1:12:57

out at 80 because I could get there in 20 minutes, right? Beautiful,

1:13:00

right and parking's cheap. I'm sure Oh,

1:13:02

yeah, my wife right. Oh, I close

1:13:05

but but I've done anti-flight apply to

1:13:07

Chicago Which meant I had a five-hour layover

1:13:09

and you know, I'm I

1:13:12

really like airport launches It was fine, but it

1:13:14

was a long day I learned

1:13:16

that lesson in fact in my last flight because I flew

1:13:18

instead of flying to Boston and renting a car

1:13:20

and driving to Providence I flew to

1:13:23

Baltimore and then to Providence

1:13:25

and that was a big mistake Yeah,

1:13:28

yeah, that's you yeah, I like to

1:13:30

yeah, I'm feeling the TF above

1:13:33

my TV. It's a cute little regional I was

1:13:35

a lot bigger than a B. Yeah, actually. All

1:13:37

right. Oh, yeah, but it's not a big air No,

1:13:40

and it was in the layover in Baltimore

1:13:43

was just like your spa. It was ours It's only

1:13:45

takes an hour. Yeah Providence. We get

1:13:47

in a lounge. It's okay. Yeah, you

1:13:49

were just gonna plow anyway Yeah, cuz

1:13:51

I got food in the lounge is just so good Actually

1:13:54

is good compared to the you get a lounge.

1:13:57

Oh, yeah

1:13:59

Yeah

1:13:59

So, Richard really wants

1:14:02

to talk about Windows, so I guess we better humor him.

1:14:04

Yeah, I just remembered, I just

1:14:06

saw this update coming in, like I'm on the road, am I accepting

1:14:09

this? Alright, I'm accepting this. I

1:14:11

mean, how bad it is. It actually was pretty quick, right? It was.

1:14:14

So, I don't want to be at this to death. I've ranted and

1:14:16

ranted about this 23H2, not 23H2 thing over multiple shows

1:14:18

because by

1:14:22

my count, I think this is the fourth time

1:14:24

they've released 23H2. It

1:14:27

was the initial preview release of

1:14:29

what they were calling it the time of the fall update that came

1:14:31

in late September. And the patch Tuesday

1:14:33

happened in October and they released a second preview

1:14:36

version of the same exact thing, except this time all the

1:14:38

features were turned on. They released

1:14:41

23H2, but by the way, still a preview didn't

1:14:44

advertise that on October 31st. And

1:14:46

now patch Tuesday has come around again. Guess what? They

1:14:49

finally released it. So, what's interesting to me is when

1:14:51

I was talking about I got to update the book, I want to have

1:14:53

something out today. This is available, right? I was

1:14:56

timing it for exactly right now. This

1:14:59

was my target date. And so, when

1:15:01

they announced the October 31 thing, I was like, what are you

1:15:03

doing with me? That's almost two weeks.

1:15:06

It was two weeks. And honestly,

1:15:08

it worked out okay. But that release,

1:15:10

as I said, whatever that week was, probably

1:15:13

the early November, the November

1:15:16

2nd show probably, so two weeks ago, I guess,

1:15:20

whatever. It was

1:15:22

actually a preview release. It wasn't even... The

1:15:25

language is so screwed up. So actually, yesterday,

1:15:28

which was patch Tuesday, November, was

1:15:30

in fact the official, non-preview,

1:15:34

general available, but it seemed like a patch.

1:15:36

Yes, it was. It's only put on 23H2. So,

1:15:39

because the features, you've already gotten them all, right? All

1:15:42

right. They weren't always enabled, depending on which updates you've

1:15:44

installed. So this is that enablement

1:15:46

package. It just flips the switch. So

1:15:48

it's a really quick update. Why did they do this? Were

1:15:51

they having problems? Yeah. I don't

1:15:53

want to pretend. I just wonder if they were just having problems

1:15:56

with each other. So

1:16:00

they were taking some of them off getting more

1:16:02

of them out there. See how they behave. Yeah,

1:16:04

it was a telemetry thing. It's not

1:16:07

worth me even trying to use my brain to

1:16:09

figure out exactly what happened. But the

1:16:11

initial release was CFRs,

1:16:14

that first preview released in late September. So random.

1:16:17

The October one was supposed,

1:16:20

it was a preview release. You still had to go get it. But if you

1:16:22

did, supposedly you got everything. Right.

1:16:25

Same thing with the October 31st release.

1:16:27

It was a preview release, but it would

1:16:30

enable everything right away. And

1:16:32

now it's a non-preview release and it will enable

1:16:35

everything right away. So if you are

1:16:37

using Windows 11, my apologies,

1:16:41

but you, as

1:16:43

we speak, or maybe by next week,

1:16:45

everyone should have. Right. I think this

1:16:47

is the release. It's

1:16:50

crazy how long it took. There

1:16:52

we are. Okay.

1:16:55

There you go. 150 new

1:16:57

features. We've been beating it to death for two

1:16:59

months. Slowly, slowly, slowly.

1:17:02

Yeah. All right. So that's it.

1:17:05

I also ranted and ranted and ranted about OneDrive

1:17:07

over the past two months because they had many problems. I'm

1:17:10

still working on my photo digital

1:17:14

decluttering projects. Right. And that was

1:17:16

the full. I thought you were finished. Yeah. Yeah.

1:17:18

That's cute. I thought so too. I

1:17:20

was so naive. I remember when I was young two months ago.

1:17:23

Yeah. So OneDrive

1:17:26

continues to have, no OneDrive, I'm sorry, File Explorer

1:17:28

continues to have huge performance problems and

1:17:30

reliability problems, especially when you're working

1:17:32

with several hundred or several thousand

1:17:36

files like I am locally

1:17:38

on disk, by the way, not across the network. It's just sitting

1:17:40

around the disk. It's still, it's a horrific problem. But

1:17:43

tied to this, of course, is the OneDrive stuff. So one

1:17:45

thing people are, like I talked about last week, I think

1:17:47

are waking up to is, oh my

1:17:49

God, like OneDrive is really being aggressive now about

1:17:53

making you use it. And it's tied to this copilot

1:17:55

thing. They want to have that data back in. They want to make sure

1:17:57

everyone's doing this. Right. Well, One

1:18:00

of the little bits of bad behavior that

1:18:03

I mentioned in the book and I

1:18:05

popularized a dead podcast I mentioned on

1:18:08

Windows Weekly two, three weeks ago was

1:18:11

all the crazy stuff it does when you try to leave OneDrive.

1:18:14

It really wants you back. It's like when you try to switch from edge.

1:18:16

It's like, oh, come on. Come on. You

1:18:18

know you love us. Yeah, exactly. So

1:18:20

they were doing that with OneDrive. And

1:18:22

they would literally let you, they wouldn't let you close

1:18:25

it. I mean, you could probably force quit it, but unless

1:18:28

you filled a little survey, they would tell you why you're

1:18:30

relaxing. Yes. So that one apparently

1:18:32

is what put people over the edge enough that Microsoft actually

1:18:34

rolled that one back there. They, they, okay. Yeah.

1:18:37

Two point. But I'm telling you

1:18:40

of, of the problems of OneDrive in 23H2,

1:18:42

I would put that pretty far down on the list because

1:18:44

there's some really bad behaviors still occurring

1:18:47

there, but they did, this is Microsoft responding

1:18:49

to feedback. So they did do that. Yeah.

1:18:53

All right.

1:18:54

Uh, so patch Tuesday

1:18:56

again was yesterday, right? Okay.

1:18:59

It was the 20th anniversary of this month of Tuesday.

1:19:01

So John Cable, uh,

1:19:04

is a guy from Microsoft who has the unfortunate role

1:19:07

or job of explaining updates because

1:19:09

I'd, I say it that way because honestly,

1:19:12

they're not explainable, right? Like

1:19:14

it's a, it's a world of insanity, but

1:19:16

he has to come as the voice of reason and explain

1:19:18

why it's all make sense. And this is what we're doing. And,

1:19:21

uh, his blog posts are always very interesting. I always

1:19:23

pay a lot of attention to them. So I was interested

1:19:25

to see the, he wrote a blog post about

1:19:27

the 20th anniversary of that's Tuesday. I

1:19:30

thought to myself, here we go. Yeah. And

1:19:32

I have never read anything so horrible in my

1:19:34

life. I, how is it horrible?

1:19:36

So think about, think about some of the milestones you

1:19:38

could talk about with a patch Tuesday. For example,

1:19:41

the day it actually started the actual

1:19:43

date, not in the blog post or,

1:19:45

or as specific releases of things that occurred

1:19:48

on specific dates, for example, in this blog post,

1:19:50

right? And I learned that that windows server

1:19:52

updates services, WSS and

1:19:54

the Microsoft baseline security analyzer both appeared

1:19:56

sometime between 2008 and 2012. I don't know for

1:19:58

sure it was in there. Windows 10

1:20:01

for example, that arrived between 2013 and 2017. That's

1:20:05

true. It

1:20:07

was a specific date in July in 2015,

1:20:09

but you were from Microsoft,

1:20:12

you couldn't get the exact date. So

1:20:14

it isn't 20 years, is it? I

1:20:17

know it's not. It's

1:20:19

probably a GX. It's 20 years-ish.

1:20:23

I mean, I don't know why. The

1:20:25

thing that bugs me about this, other than the obvious, and

1:20:27

I know if this is a semi OCD thing

1:20:29

or whatever, but... The

1:20:31

job here is to be precise.

1:20:34

I don't mean in the telling of the

1:20:36

history, I just mean you're doing Windows updates. You

1:20:38

should know exactly what's happening. People's operating

1:20:40

systems. So now you're describing a history

1:20:42

where it literally is specific dates

1:20:45

and there is not a... You can read the post yourself, there's not a

1:20:47

specific date. An obvious, specific date. Yes,

1:20:49

it's nowhere. It's so weird. I

1:20:52

just found that to be... Did they miss an edit

1:20:55

pass? I don't know. Yeah,

1:20:58

vaguely disrespectful. Oh, somebody

1:21:00

in turn wrote it probably. Yeah,

1:21:03

that could be. But still, again, when you said

1:21:06

intern, did you mean chat GPT? Yeah,

1:21:08

maybe chat GPT. Hello,

1:21:11

Dave. Did you know it's sort

1:21:14

of the 20th anniversary? It's

1:21:16

sort of the 20th anniversary. How

1:21:18

should we talk about it? Vaguely.

1:21:24

You know what? We don't have specific

1:21:26

dates. We don't have specific dates. That's the problem with

1:21:28

AI. It's not very good at specifics. Can't do math. We

1:21:33

just don't have specific dates. Okay, so 20 years of Patch

1:21:35

Tuesday. It's been a wild ride. Congratulations.

1:21:38

By the way, if I'm

1:21:40

not mistaken, Patch Tuesday came out of

1:21:42

the trustworthy computing initiative. Absolutely. Yeah,

1:21:45

for sure. And yesterday, that

1:21:48

we're patch as quickly. We'll get it out to you as

1:21:50

fast as possible. I didn't really facilitate it by the

1:21:52

internet. Yes, this is all the transformation.

1:21:55

We used to wait for service packs. Yeah,

1:21:57

it came on a DVD. Update rollups and all that kind of stuff. Yeah,

1:22:02

so patch Tuesday, hooray. So

1:22:05

I guess next, I'm going to expect

1:22:07

unexpected new features as soon as next

1:22:10

patch Tuesday, right? This is based

1:22:12

on last year's- Yeah, what's next? Is it going to be

1:22:14

24H1 now? 24H1. Please,

1:22:16

no. It is November, moment

1:22:18

five. They'll call it moment six just to screw with

1:22:20

it. I don't know. You know, I don't know.

1:22:23

No moment nine. Yep.

1:22:26

The loss

1:22:28

among the many announcements, the new

1:22:30

outlook is in Windows now. It's

1:22:33

part of 23H2. Okay.

1:22:35

At some point next year, it's actually just going to replace

1:22:38

mail-in calendar in the OS. They're not going to

1:22:40

install it? Yeah, I think it is for that. I

1:22:42

don't know why it has so many apps. Yeah.

1:22:45

I mean, they used to want to charge for Outlook. I

1:22:48

mean, mail-in calendar and

1:22:50

people, which kind of exists,

1:22:53

kind of doesn't. This 11 date back

1:22:55

to Windows 8, right? This was the

1:22:57

Windows Live team, literally at the time, developing

1:23:00

their HTML-based apps that would run

1:23:02

in Windows. They've always

1:23:04

been really out of date. They've always been feature light.

1:23:07

They work okay for what they are, but I

1:23:09

think the new Outlook in that space is actually quite

1:23:15

good in the

1:23:17

commercial space. It was a slightly different

1:23:19

problem. So they

1:23:22

are sometime, I bet it won't happen next year, but

1:23:24

sometime will be, allegedly,

1:23:27

this is going to hit a wall just like replacing Windows 10

1:23:29

is going to hit a wall, try to replace

1:23:32

the classic Outlook desktop app with

1:23:35

the new Outlook. I know. So,

1:23:37

yeah. I mean, I do it if it was

1:23:39

good. You know, like I'm frustrated.

1:23:43

I'm going to really, classic Outlook user have been for a long

1:23:45

time and every time I go over

1:23:47

there, it doesn't work. I just, you

1:23:49

know, you know what I can't do? Everything.

1:23:52

Work on my email. Exactly. So,

1:23:54

and I wonder how much of just being an old guy with an own

1:23:56

workflow and it's like, I'm stuck in my

1:23:58

work. There's a lot of. Outlook add-ons

1:24:01

that people rely on that just don't work

1:24:03

in this new version. It's a new model. And again, those

1:24:05

add-ons cause problems in Outlook too. Yep.

1:24:08

No, I appreciate them wanting to modernize

1:24:10

it. I think it will eventually get to where teams

1:24:13

got to with the new teams. But

1:24:15

if you're waiting for that to happen or worried about how this is

1:24:17

going to happen, Microsoft has published a

1:24:21

roadmap for how they intend and when

1:24:23

they intend to add features. And some of it is

1:24:26

very interesting. There's

1:24:28

little features like auto-capitalization, like seriously.

1:24:30

But, you know, Copilot integration, dictation,

1:24:34

EML file support, I think,

1:24:36

pop3 account support, PST.

1:24:39

How do you release a product called Outlook that

1:24:41

doesn't support PFT? But it's on

1:24:43

the roadmap. It's on the roadmap. So this

1:24:46

roadmap is a real, by the way, this doesn't work.

1:24:48

Like, this is some sideways

1:24:50

way of admitting what doesn't work. Exactly. And

1:24:53

I think we talked about this, but, you know,

1:24:55

Copilot was rushed into Windows.

1:24:57

Yeah. The new teams, well, actually

1:25:00

that one happened to be right in the right place. So that one

1:25:02

kind of came along. And the new Outlook too

1:25:04

kind of forced in there because again, these things are

1:25:06

all tied together in the back end and

1:25:08

are part of this AI push that Microsoft is

1:25:10

making. So

1:25:13

there are a lot of versions, unfortunately, of Microsoft

1:25:15

these days of products that were kind of put out. It's like it's

1:25:17

available and the real version is coming

1:25:19

up in three months or six months. Well, because

1:25:22

there's updates on the internet. Yeah.

1:25:24

Yeah, that's a new one. Yeah, that's a new one.

1:25:27

Microsoft

1:25:30

Store. I actually have written a book about Windows.

1:25:32

I don't know if I ever talked about this. This feature was already

1:25:34

in one. I'm kind of confused to hear

1:25:36

it's new, but the Microsoft Store now lets

1:25:39

you decide where to install games. I assume

1:25:41

what that means is the literal

1:25:43

place you install not the drive.

1:25:46

Right. So it's probably a little more granular because

1:25:48

previously in Windows and Windows 11 and 10, I

1:25:50

should say you could

1:25:52

if you had two disks or two partitions, you could say

1:25:54

I wanted them to D drive. That's C drive. You can already

1:25:56

do that. So this

1:25:57

must be a way to get it out of that hidden folder.

1:25:59

structure if you want to

1:26:01

happen to be in a place that you know

1:26:04

and understand. Because

1:26:06

actually if you do run games out of the store, Xbox

1:26:09

games, whatever, and you run one of those

1:26:13

tools that look at your like Windair stat or whatever

1:26:15

and you'll have this giant

1:26:17

orange box over there and you're like, what the hell is that?

1:26:19

It's like, oh, I installed Halo. And it's like, you don't

1:26:21

even, you can't see it in the file system unless you know where

1:26:24

to look because it's all hidden. But it's

1:26:26

like the biggest thing. It's bigger than Windows. It's

1:26:28

bigger. So maybe

1:26:30

I'm sure it's the side of that. So that's fine.

1:26:33

And then because we can't have too many

1:26:35

copilots. We need to keep it nameless. How

1:26:38

many different copilots get served? We should have whiskey

1:26:40

right here and every time we say copilot, you should be taking a shot.

1:26:43

And then we just be in the same place. That's what I'm all doing the whole time.

1:26:45

Yeah, there's just being a state. It would just be

1:26:47

us asleep. I'm like

1:26:50

drooling on his shoulders. So

1:26:52

Microsoft announced this probably

1:26:55

at build again, but now it's generally

1:26:57

available in time for the holidays. Copilot

1:26:59

in Microsoft Shopping. This

1:27:02

sounds silly, but honestly it works

1:27:04

pretty well. I was testing it. You can run

1:27:06

it in any browser. But

1:27:09

if you run it in Edge,

1:27:12

you also take advantage, it's kind of a double whammy

1:27:14

thing because Edge has Shopping features built, right? Does

1:27:17

price matching and looks for the best

1:27:19

deal, etc., etc. So you could kind of combine

1:27:21

the two if you wanted to in Edge. But

1:27:25

what you basically do is you type in a

1:27:27

prompt. You say something like, I'm looking for the cheapest

1:27:30

iPad I can get or whatever. And it's

1:27:33

a conversation like any other kind of chat-based

1:27:36

AI service. And

1:27:39

it will ask you follow-up questions. It will

1:27:41

provide you with some results and then kind of prompt

1:27:43

you for further questions. You can just keep talking to it and say,

1:27:45

okay, I'm interested in this particular model

1:27:47

or whatever it might be. So I actually did use

1:27:49

it to shop for an iPad. I don't need an iPad. I just

1:27:51

wanted to see how it worked. Actually, it's pretty good. I

1:27:53

was surprised. Yeah, not horrible. And

1:27:57

they've also enabled that thing they were talking about.

1:27:59

about,

1:28:02

probably also back in Bill, sorry, in Bing

1:28:04

slash Edge, which is AI review

1:28:06

summaries, right? And so, in other words, you search

1:28:08

for a product, you might want to buy it for someone for the

1:28:10

holidays, whatever. And you

1:28:13

can now, it will summarize the reviews like you

1:28:15

see on Google Maps, right? If you look at a restaurant

1:28:17

or whatever, it kind of gives you these little summaries. You

1:28:20

know, what are people saying about this product,

1:28:22

right? I always worry about the quality of

1:28:24

that data, but okay. Yeah, I mean,

1:28:26

when you're, right.

1:28:29

But useful, you know. So,

1:28:32

there you go. Cool. Another copilot, not

1:28:34

bad.

1:28:35

Not bad.

1:28:37

And we talked about AI enough. We have it. So,

1:28:39

we got more. More? Woo-hoo!

1:28:42

Well, we have also, just this next story

1:28:45

is not technically AI, but

1:28:47

the next three after it will. Everything is

1:28:49

technically AI. Yeah, that's a good

1:28:51

point. So,

1:28:53

what is it, Friday?

1:28:55

I think is the date

1:28:58

by which any big tech company

1:29:00

that has been designated a gatekeeper

1:29:03

under the, what's it called, the Digital Market Authority?

1:29:06

Right. DMX, the EU,

1:29:08

one of the EU new laws, has

1:29:11

until Friday, November,

1:29:14

or maybe it's tomorrow, 16th, I thought it was the 16th, but whatever

1:29:16

the date is soon, to appeal their

1:29:19

decision on that. Some

1:29:21

have. I think Meta this morning might have come up with

1:29:24

something like that. They're going to appeal it. Well,

1:29:26

yeah, they don't want to be designated, because once

1:29:28

you are designated into this category,

1:29:30

you have to adhere to these very stringent laws. For example,

1:29:33

if iMessage was considered a gatekeeper

1:29:36

product, they would have to make it

1:29:38

interoperable with Android

1:29:40

messaging or SMS. So,

1:29:43

nominally, it is just not

1:29:45

very good. Yeah. So, there's

1:29:47

some big stakes here. But interestingly, Microsoft

1:29:49

and also Google have decided not

1:29:52

to challenge the existing designations

1:29:54

that they have. So they could. Where

1:29:57

are you going to go? I think honestly, the reason

1:29:59

you would do if you know you are in fact meeting

1:30:01

the requirement to be a gatekeeper would be to

1:30:03

push back the time when you would have to actually

1:30:05

adhere. Right. I think that would be maybe

1:30:07

unraveled a different way. Google

1:30:10

has a lot more services that fall into

1:30:12

this designation as you might expect between search

1:30:14

and everything else they do. Microsoft

1:30:17

only has a few, although I guess there

1:30:19

are some hanging in the balance, including Bing

1:30:23

might make the list. All 6%

1:30:25

of Bing? I know. Okay.

1:30:29

You just taken a hard line stance on this. Anyway,

1:30:31

they came out in public. The other side

1:30:34

of the gatekeeper story is

1:30:36

also just sort of that

1:30:39

cementing dominance in the position

1:30:42

too, right? When you create regulations like this, you

1:30:44

create incumbents. Your camera's doing

1:30:47

anyway. Wait

1:30:49

a minute, your camera did that? Yeah,

1:30:52

it got tired. I

1:30:54

don't wanna look at you guys anymore. You

1:30:57

guys are not that good. Not yet. Wow.

1:31:02

So anyway, I thought that was kind of interesting. And

1:31:04

then let's run through these quick. Actually, these are all

1:31:06

Google. So Google, I'm sure

1:31:09

it has nothing to do with Ignite, but it's announced a bunch

1:31:11

of AI stuff this week. Generative

1:31:14

AI search is now coming to over 120

1:31:16

countries, which is kind of interesting. This is that,

1:31:18

I actually forget what it's called. They have a separate kind

1:31:20

of generative AI search experience. The

1:31:23

goal here, I assume, is to roll it into general

1:31:26

Google search at some point. They've

1:31:29

announced that they're going to identify any

1:31:32

AI-based video content

1:31:34

that comes onto YouTube. So you get a little disclaimer,

1:31:36

kind of like you see one that's, there's a product

1:31:40

associated with the video. They have to put a little call

1:31:42

out there. Yeah, a little thing that's sponsored video.

1:31:44

Yeah, so this will be a AI-sponsored video, I

1:31:46

guess. This is fitting with Biden's executive

1:31:48

thing, executive order is on my

1:31:51

body. Yeah, yeah. And they're generating stuff.

1:31:53

That could be, yeah. Pretty quick, if that's true. Yeah,

1:31:55

that's why. Of course, the EU is already headed down that

1:31:57

path. And they've had this.

1:32:00

They just never wanted to put it out there. So

1:32:02

yeah, yeah, and then this one I've

1:32:04

been waiting for this This is actually really cool. So Because

1:32:07

I've been doing all this digital decluttering stuff I have

1:32:10

to say it one of the things that becomes really obvious when you really

1:32:12

look at it is there's there's two worlds Well,

1:32:14

maybe three worlds of photos for

1:32:16

a person, right? They're the old photos me in

1:32:19

80s or whatever that was just paper based or

1:32:21

you know, yeah negatives you scan them in their inbox Yep,

1:32:23

they're just the way they are There

1:32:26

was a digital camera age right from

1:32:28

the probably mid to late 90s through

1:32:30

the starting with the L Yeah,

1:32:33

there was a bunch of them myself. I had such

1:32:35

cannons Kodak I didn't really Kodak there was the Apple

1:32:37

Apple back into there. Remember I had one of the first ones quick Yeah,

1:32:40

take camera. I think it was called And

1:32:43

then there's the smartphone Right and so what

1:32:45

happens is you make that transition is you went from

1:32:47

a roll of film which is a very finite amount of Data

1:32:50

or pictures you could have to a memory

1:32:52

card which was also finite bigger but finite To

1:32:55

a phone where you're saving it to the cloud and it's like it cares

1:32:57

you can be you know So you take a million? Back

1:32:59

in the day if I took a picture of you guys last night

1:33:01

at some event I'd be a click once and it may be very

1:33:03

careful with it. Yeah, and take now I Like

1:33:06

this so I've watched you do it. Yeah, that might be 20. Yeah,

1:33:08

exactly All right

1:33:11

So Google Photos is coming out with a new feature

1:33:13

I got you a couple features to kind of help with this

1:33:15

and I think it's a really smart. I'm Supposed

1:33:17

to be out now. I didn't I don't have it yet, but it's

1:33:20

creating photo stacks of these events It's the

1:33:22

time and place and if you take 20 photos of

1:33:24

a group of people it will prop up

1:33:26

the one it thinks is the Best take right

1:33:29

and you can go in and you can change that north and change

1:33:31

what's in there and it I this might be I

1:33:33

this sounds pretty good. This is smart. Yeah, they're

1:33:35

also doing auto aggregation

1:33:38

and kind of hiding of receipts

1:33:41

and other pictures that you take pictures of things or

1:33:43

papers and documents and Screenshots,

1:33:45

right? Right. These are things that you want in your collection,

1:33:48

but you don't want them in your photo stream Yeah, yeah, you know,

1:33:50

I always photograph my rental car. Yeah

1:33:52

before and every time yeah, yeah where you parked

1:33:54

what you did You know, yeah, and you want to get you want to keep

1:33:57

it for some period of time.

1:33:59

That's right And actually that's part of it. You

1:34:01

can decide to have these things auto archive

1:34:04

after 30 days. Right. Which

1:34:06

is smart. So, just, you know, this is,

1:34:09

I think is a great example. It seems to be very

1:34:11

obvious, but I'm glad it's happening. At least it's

1:34:13

happening. But this is what AI is

1:34:16

bringing us, right? It's a... Because

1:34:18

it can do such good image-racing. Yeah, it's a small thing.

1:34:20

You know, I showed Richard earlier

1:34:22

this folder I have of scans, where

1:34:25

for some reason about 50% of them are not auto-rotated,

1:34:27

right? When I switched over

1:34:29

to Google Photos on my Gmail account, I spent

1:34:32

three days getting constant notifications. Hey, some

1:34:34

of your pictures are sideways. Say, you know, and

1:34:36

you go in and it will... So fix them. Well,

1:34:38

it does. But sometimes one will be wrong.

1:34:40

You're like, no, not that one. Right. And

1:34:43

so I literally spent three days. I would do one. I

1:34:45

would put the phone down and go boop, boop, boop. Oh, you have some more...

1:34:47

You know, I spent three days on that. So the ones

1:34:50

up in the cloud are actually rotated properly. Right.

1:34:52

Most of them anyway. But you have these

1:34:55

photos. It's like, I don't understand why there isn't a button

1:34:57

in file experience. Rotate. Make it right.

1:35:00

It's a good AI capability. It's like, what's the right orientation

1:35:02

for this photo? And it's a time saver because I could control

1:35:05

click and right click auto-rotate

1:35:07

right or whatever I could. But you know, my

1:35:10

time is not completely in the middle. So

1:35:12

now you're mad that a machine model hasn't been made yet.

1:35:15

Right. See, that's how we finally get that

1:35:17

quickly. This is the whole chair in the sky story. Yes.

1:35:20

Yes. I thought you were talking about the Lord of God. Yeah.

1:35:23

You're flying through the sky like a Thor the

1:35:25

Thunder God. You're worried that it's taking a second

1:35:28

for a message to get between you and the satellite.

1:35:31

Give it a second. It's going to skip. Yeah.

1:35:34

Yeah. Yep. That's me.

1:35:37

All right. All right. Xbox?

1:35:40

Yep. You

1:35:42

were just waiting for me to say that. I know.

1:35:45

I like it. I like it. Hey,

1:35:47

Paul. What's going on in the world of Xbox? Oh, I'm

1:35:50

glad you asked, Leo. Lots. So

1:35:53

Microsoft announced their Black

1:35:56

Friday stuff. And among the deals

1:35:58

is $50 off. select, I would say

1:36:00

most, Xbox Series X and

1:36:02

S consoles. So if you were looking

1:36:05

to get into this ecosystem and haven't

1:36:07

been done yet.

1:36:35

and

1:38:00

it just that I actually looked

1:38:02

at two but I only played for three seconds

1:38:04

of one but I They

1:38:06

are beautiful. I there and they're immediately Recognizable

1:38:10

the memories of these places are like I said

1:38:12

in the past there is real those memories of any place It's

1:38:14

so it's kind of cool. Anyway College

1:38:16

is not the only one doing it Halo infinite Just

1:38:19

released a retro Playlist

1:38:22

of multiplayer maps all based on classic

1:38:25

Halo 3 maps from 2007. I think that's fun Wow,

1:38:29

really cool. Yeah, and this is a combination

1:38:31

some of them a straight-up remakes the

1:38:34

dynamics a little weird right because Halo

1:38:37

infinite doesn't really fight like Halo 3

1:38:39

even though you look at anything my god They kind of nailed

1:38:41

this thing. It looks like a classic Halo game, right?

1:38:44

It really the feel is actually quite different So

1:38:46

some of the maps are what they say, you know reimagined,

1:38:49

right?

1:38:50

And

1:38:51

it's actually there's a stupid Mountain Dew

1:38:53

tie and I refused to discuss but they did

1:38:55

they redid a map from Halo 2 as

1:39:00

well that has a Mountain Dew themed named

1:39:02

that again. I'm not gonna go through but It's

1:39:05

it's free, right? So if you own the game or if you get it through game pass you

1:39:07

can play the display listen kind of you know Really live the past

1:39:09

a little bit. It's kind of fun There's

1:39:12

a bunch more, you know, it's the middle of month, right? So

1:39:14

we've got more game pass games We have

1:39:17

I would say let's say one should

1:39:19

have to probably at least two more of these drops to

1:39:21

go But before we get anything from Activision Blizzard,

1:39:24

this one is super light. It's three

1:39:26

games Is

1:39:28

a doing game Roller,

1:39:30

I don't know any escape. So basically this is what I have to say

1:39:32

all the time. I don't recognize any of these games So they're

1:39:35

pretty far down the catalog these days. Yeah,

1:39:37

this is and this is one of the problems that Activision

1:39:40

Blizzard is gonna solve right? This is gonna

1:39:42

then add a few it'll give it would be a year

1:39:45

Well, it's gonna be a good year. I think every

1:39:47

year we're gonna get a lot games older games It's

1:39:49

gonna be yeah only old hard balls and

1:39:51

you know, yeah actually made a lot of games. So

1:39:54

the old Call of Duty's, right? Yeah And I

1:39:56

think the rest of us might be these are

1:39:59

yeah, not micro Microsoft gaming things. So

1:40:02

there's an OLED version

1:40:05

of the Steam Deck coming. I think Valve

1:40:07

announced that there wouldn't be new

1:40:09

hardware other than this new screen for

1:40:12

at least a year or two, I think, if I'm mistaken. But 549,

1:40:16

the reviews on this are overwhelmingly

1:40:18

positive. Actually

1:40:20

this seems to be the thing

1:40:23

people were looking for. So how much? It's

1:40:26

not bad. Yeah, it's not bad. 12 hours

1:40:29

of battery life, depending on the game, etc. Yeah,

1:40:31

probably two hours away I played. But yeah, I

1:40:33

mean that's fine. PS5

1:40:37

Slim, as they're calling it. It's not very slim. It's

1:40:39

not very small. It's kind of weird looking. I

1:40:42

thought, I always thought these things were weird. The

1:40:45

PS5 to me looks like a Starship or

1:40:47

a Star Trek Klingon ship

1:40:50

or something. Like it's a weird shape. I

1:40:52

don't think it goes well in rooms, like liver

1:40:54

crumbs and things. I don't know what they're doing. It's

1:40:57

slightly smaller. It's cost reduced. It's available

1:41:00

now in the US. So if you want that. And

1:41:02

then Sony released earnings. Actually they did great, but

1:41:05

they fell short of announcing

1:41:07

that we're not actually going to hit the sales target. You

1:41:10

know, they actually say that part. They addressed

1:41:12

it. What they said was, we don't have any changes

1:41:15

to this. But for them to meet the target,

1:41:17

which is 25 million units in their fiscal year,

1:41:19

which goes from March to March, they would

1:41:21

have to sell, let's say they sold 4.9 million units in

1:41:24

this quarter. They

1:41:27

sold 8.2 million so far in the year. So

1:41:30

in less than like a half a year. Christmas though.

1:41:33

I know. But it would have to be the best Christmas

1:41:35

the PlayStation's ever had by a factor of three. Like

1:41:38

almost for them. There's no way

1:41:40

they're going to make the number. They

1:41:43

said we recognize that selling this, they're

1:41:45

hitting this goal, is a challenging goal. It

1:41:48

was a real question. Did you even have that many units? Yeah,

1:41:50

that's a good point. Yeah, I don't know. Because if they do,

1:41:52

they have a lot of excess units. They're

1:41:55

going to run into some issues when they don't hit

1:41:57

this, right? Because that's a bad look.

1:41:59

I mean,

1:42:01

when they announced it, it

1:42:03

seemed plausible. It seemed like something they might

1:42:05

be able to do. Yeah, predicting the future coming out

1:42:07

of the pandemic seemed done-wise. Yeah. Well,

1:42:11

they did a better job than Microsoft of managing

1:42:13

inventory control and all that kind of stuff. Yeah.

1:42:16

But they are a little more integrated in their manufacturing.

1:42:19

Yeah. And then Amazon, I saw

1:42:21

this and I thought, my God, is Luna

1:42:23

gone? But no. Amazon,

1:42:27

actually, acknowledged they laid off about 180 employees

1:42:30

in this game division and they're going to refocus

1:42:32

Prime Gaming, as it's called,

1:42:38

to be a better offering, I guess. I mean,

1:42:40

so I saw this and I thought, here we go. It's like, now is Luna going to

1:42:42

die? But

1:42:44

there was no news along that. But

1:42:49

you know, the EU,

1:42:51

I'm sorry, England, says that Cloud Gaming

1:42:53

is the hottest thing out there. Yeah,

1:42:55

I know. I don't understand. I think I understand.

1:42:58

No? All right. At

1:43:00

least they waited until Activision Blizzard went through to

1:43:02

ask this. Sorry, because it's not a problem.

1:43:05

But this is very confusing. This is true

1:43:07

of Amazon in general, but there's a confusing array

1:43:09

of services that you get as a Prime member. And

1:43:12

then there are these upgrades. And so you can do like

1:43:14

there's a free version of Amazon Music you get,

1:43:16

but there's also upgrades you pay. So if you're

1:43:18

a Prime member, you pay less than you would otherwise for

1:43:21

the upgrade. And this is true in the gaming

1:43:23

space as well. So there's a Prime gaming

1:43:25

thing that you should look at if you're a Prime

1:43:28

member. It's

1:43:29

PC based, right? But

1:43:32

there's also Luna. And then there's Luna Add-ons,

1:43:34

right? Because you can attach other subscriptions

1:43:36

or whatever to that. So there's

1:43:38

actually tiers of it. So

1:43:41

it's kind of weird. It's

1:43:43

kind of hard to understand. When you see a headline about Amazon

1:43:45

gaming, you have to kind of start to go look at it and say,

1:43:48

what tournament are they talking about? And

1:43:51

basically it's the part that gives you free

1:43:53

games every month. So they're going to kind

1:43:55

of retool that. There's been no word about Luna.

1:43:58

So Luna's still...

1:43:59

knowing and I think.

1:44:02

Well, guys who are using it think it's really great. I

1:44:04

thought it was really great when I used it for two minutes. But

1:44:07

yeah. All right.

1:44:09

All right.

1:44:11

There you

1:44:13

have it. You in a nutshell.

1:44:16

Yes. So, let's

1:44:18

take a break and then the back of the book is coming

1:44:20

up. Tips, apps, and

1:44:23

yes, even though they

1:44:25

are in Seattle. And I saw you

1:44:27

had a nice meal it looked like with Donna Sakhar

1:44:29

and Scott Hanselman, some nice people.

1:44:32

Maybe you enjoyed some brown liquor there and you'd like to share

1:44:34

it with us. I'm just thinking. Oh,

1:44:36

there's a story. There's a story. Good. All

1:44:39

that coming up in just a

1:44:41

bit. But first a

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