0:00

It's time for Windows Weekly, Paul Theratz in

0:02

Mexico City. Richard Campbell is in New Zealand.

0:04

He'll join us a little bit late.

0:06

He's actually driving as fast as he can

0:09

to get back to his studio

0:11

and his house. We've got lots to talk

0:13

about. It's a big AI show. No

0:16

new versions of Windows this week, but

0:18

there is a lot of co-pilot news,

0:20

especially in Edge. Why Firefox

0:23

is fighting so hard to

0:25

stay alive. And of

0:27

course more earnings and Xbox news

0:29

too. Plus some

0:31

tips of the week, an app of the week and a brown

0:33

liquor pick of the week. It's all coming up next on

0:35

Windows Weekly. Podcasts

0:39

you love. From people you

0:41

trust. This

0:44

is Twit. This

0:50

is Windows Weekly with Paul Theratz and

0:53

Richard Campbell, episode 867. Recorded

0:56

Wednesday, February 7th, 2024. Prepare

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That's CashFly,

2:28

cashefly.com/twit. It's

2:31

time for Windows Weekly, the show where we

2:33

get together with Paul and Richard and talk

2:35

about Windows and Microsoft and stuff,

2:38

except Richard is stuck in the

2:40

air somewhere over in New Zealand, I guess. Hi, Paul.

2:44

Hello, Leo. Yeah, Paul's in Mexico City,

2:46

though. I can tell from

2:48

the colorful couch pillows. Yeah,

2:51

well, I'm hoping by the end of this

2:53

trip I'll have colorful walls as well. We're

2:55

working on that. That's the last thing you

2:57

do. First you get comfy, right?

3:00

Then you put stuff on the walls. It's

3:02

a little stark. Yeah,

3:04

it's pretty. What is that window behind you look

3:06

out onto the street? No,

3:09

it looks out onto the penthouse across the way. Oh,

3:11

that's the one I want to rent. Unfortunately,

3:14

it's been purchased. Oh, nuts. I

3:17

wanted to flash you. This is the guy who bought

3:19

it. He's really nice. Oh, good. Oh,

3:21

nice. He's Americano, a

3:24

gringo, as they say. Are

3:26

you surrounded by expats? No.

3:32

No, we're kind of in the far southeastern

3:34

corner of Romanorte. So if you

3:37

walk north of here, it's

3:39

like walking through Brooklyn. But

3:42

if you walk south of here, it's like

3:44

walking through Medellin or something. I mean, it's

3:46

a completely different planet. So we're

3:49

kind of bridging those two worlds. It's a

3:51

nice location. I'm

3:54

so jealous. And I bet it's

3:56

a little warmer than Mukunji. It's

3:58

a little. The the low

4:01

temperature here exceeds the high temperature

4:03

and with yeah that's what I

4:05

figured. Ah, although it's because you're

4:07

at altitude. And it's as

4:09

it is a slippery like a seventy threat low

4:12

seventies and seventy outweigh I though it's been high

4:14

seventies when I assume they get done a low

4:16

seventies. but they are and I did actually gets

4:18

into the high forties like a good at four

4:20

o'clock in the morning. yeah but we want some.

4:22

Was cited nine thirty and it was sixty Five

4:24

Am in your. Seats.

4:27

And not to mention the food that you

4:30

were probably units do ever cook. At

4:34

us Like literally know, why would

4:36

you why we leave? You know

4:38

it, When we're home, we've. You.

4:41

Know. Five. Six days a week, most

4:43

meals at home rather be net. It's. The

4:45

complete opposite here at how is.

4:48

This. Is no reason to. Well, it's really

4:50

nice and it's amazing. And

4:52

we a month cost us three dollars and

4:54

Fifty cents. I don't think I could write

4:57

deliver a reasonable answer that price? Damn right,

4:59

You know. And. Then you have

5:01

to shop and cook and all that

5:03

stuff gets. Francis

5:06

trying to conceal his. Business

5:08

as. Well. For

5:11

everybody are tons. There's

5:13

things. there's impediments. Ah,

5:16

if it were in early. I blink

5:18

twice. If you're talking about your wife,

5:20

Assess. Assess. Their

5:23

that a wife is that there is

5:26

my kids. And

5:28

there's this darn. Thing. Called Sweat

5:30

And but all of them combine two

5:32

words can have me air here at

5:34

his word for that as a good

5:37

some right months ago responsibilities there's a

5:39

word, but you. It's. The Spring

5:41

Awakening my friends. he is footloose. It was

5:43

nice I don't have to do what you

5:45

have to do right now. I just have

5:48

to shop for thing like this. So. I.

5:50

Can work. From. Anywhere so jealous

5:52

it or five wouldn't even.

5:55

Know. What even? No No No No

5:57

No. The

6:00

think that is the case also with me. Why

6:03

not? Why not? I just get a green screen.

6:05

You never know. Room for

6:07

Summer Have been told me I

6:09

could move basically move. To.

6:12

Live in the Vatican. Do.

6:14

They have are so he lives in a

6:16

simple will have one. does it? Apparently somebody

6:18

this that there. There's a Jesuit house. he

6:20

lives in the desert as in Vatican City.

6:22

it's overlooking St. Peter's Square

6:25

and he says yet we

6:27

have nineteen guestrooms. I.

6:29

Said well, how do they care about it? I mean

6:31

how long you stay. Said well there's

6:33

a guy a moved enduring covered in. has a moved

6:35

out yet? I don't know. It's

6:38

for since plus. Roberts.

6:41

Built up entire podcast studio. I

6:43

got better than this. Probably knowing

6:45

Robert you up on top of

6:47

the same. So.

6:51

Loose. And

6:53

there's lots of cats there anyway. Let's

6:55

say nobody cares about this visit. This

6:57

is I care about this than mine

6:59

are you. And I mean but this

7:01

is the person on kind of discussion.

7:04

The other people really hate. Snow

7:07

I'm sorry enemy now I don't know if that's

7:09

the case, but in the early days of the

7:11

show I always said, you know. We're

7:14

here. We don't want to waste her listeners'

7:16

times. Let's get right into Isis. But now

7:18

that we do three hour shows way, we're

7:21

clearly wasting our listeners time. So where we

7:23

sing? Are we wasting arts? Everybody well known?

7:25

Yeah. So are you may be wondering. Where

7:27

is that other guy as soon is? Where

7:29

is he. Looses. In

7:31

New Zealand, I'm is a New Zealand. And

7:34

he is been texting me michigan for

7:37

him as as was this Money Murmurs:

7:39

Eat lunch today. says.

7:42

This is Crazy. He. Says that

7:44

two point five hour drive so starts in an

7:46

arm. not going to make it so the left

7:48

a rental car place like I'm sorry so big

7:50

deal. The winters your travel. Though.

7:53

He says on. The. I didn't

7:55

pull over and do it from the cars with. earnest

8:00

This just takes a week off. It's good. I

8:03

half expected him just to show from

8:06

like a windswept seaside. He's

8:09

done that before. Remember, he did that from the

8:11

airport a couple months ago.

8:14

He just showed up. He's very dedicated. He's

8:16

just too dedicated. He's actually put in notes,

8:18

his notes for brown liquor and everything. So

8:21

because he was on the road, I actually added the

8:24

notes for his podcast pic for him, but he didn't

8:26

tell me the name of the liquor pic. I would

8:28

have added that as well, but I see he has

8:30

added that. But we'll say that. I

8:33

can't speak to that. We'll

8:35

mention his podcast pic because it's timely.

8:39

Maybe my wife's not at work on that, but maybe I

8:41

can convince her to grab a cocktail.

8:43

She works while she's there too. So

8:47

you really, it's kind of cool. I mean,

8:49

this is the modern age capable

8:52

of doing everything you would do in PA

8:54

and MxC. So

8:56

all right, since you mentioned that, I

9:00

will just say, I don't know how

9:02

I write this up or whatever, but I

9:04

have so many memories related to travel that

9:07

are technology related, right? It

9:10

was the time I was going to Amsterdam in the

9:12

night before I was switching the

9:14

SIM card out of my phone and

9:17

it popped out of my hand, fell into the couch, fell

9:21

further into the couch, fell further into the couch and then got into a

9:23

place where I couldn't reach it. And I needed it for connectivity.

9:27

My wife comes home with my daughter. They walk through

9:29

the door and what they see is me on top

9:31

of an upside down couch with a saw cutting

9:34

through the bottom of the couch. And she's like, what are you

9:36

doing? And I'm like, I can't go to

9:38

Amsterdam without the SIM card. So

9:41

flash forward to today, if somebody stole

9:43

my phone and I didn't

9:45

have a phone, I could buy one here. I

9:48

could get an eSIM instantaneously and be

9:50

online, 4G, 5G, whatever,

9:52

no problem. And

9:54

then contrast these two experiences with the

9:57

first year the iPhone came out and I was in Paris. And

10:01

I was scared to death to turn that thing on because

10:03

there were all these stories about those people coming back with

10:05

the giant paper bills. And

10:07

this is the year when the first came out.

10:10

The iPhone 1.0 had no sense

10:13

of location or roaming or anything. Yeah, it

10:15

would do internet. It would just be on

10:17

or off. Expensive. So I was scared to

10:19

death to use this thing. And that

10:21

was the same summer that Paris started doing

10:23

public Wi-Fi in the parks. So

10:26

I tried every single one of them. They were all terrible.

10:29

But you know, you compare that situation

10:32

back then and eventually you could

10:34

pay AT&T a ton of

10:36

money for a really small amount of

10:38

data to you have something like Google Fi where you

10:40

can just kind of travel internationally. Don't worry about it. But

10:43

you know, it's 10 bucks per gig, whatever. And

10:45

then today I just have unlimited. Nobody cares. Like

10:48

it's just on. No problem. You know,

10:50

those things really just have changed my

10:52

life. So it's made this kind of

10:54

thing possible,

10:56

right? That's one of the things that makes what I'm

10:58

doing now a big

11:01

deal. It's really... The internet connection

11:03

here is as fast as the one I had on the

11:05

gig. I mean, I think

11:08

back to when we started and I

11:10

was fighting Skype flaws.

11:12

I'd spend hours editing the

11:15

shows. We've

11:18

come a long way, baby. Oh, it's incredible.

11:21

And listen, I know people here don't think

11:23

this, but I complain a lot, right? This

11:26

is one of those kind of... The

11:29

flip side of the coin, right? It's healthy to

11:32

remember that for as terrible as

11:34

things can be, for all of the certification

11:36

stuff we talk about, and I think we're going to be talking

11:38

about some of that today actually, there

11:41

have been these advances. You know, I'm

11:43

sure. To me, it's just the biggest...

11:45

It's remarkable. It's awesome. Totally remarkable. Yeah,

11:47

we do take it for granted. That's

11:50

that famous Louis C.K. bit where he talks

11:53

about flying in an airplane. It's

11:55

one of my favorites. What are you, four? The

11:58

flying plane. through the air in

12:00

your chin. I want my food. I want my food. It's

12:03

so terrible. And you're like, it's bouncing off a

12:05

satellite. Give it a second. It's

12:08

beautiful. We live

12:10

in amazing times. It's good once in

12:12

a while to pause and remember that.

12:15

And then for me to feel insanely jealous that

12:17

you're in Mexico City right now. Well,

12:20

like I said, I mean, this is... I'm

12:24

not at the Grand Hotel

12:26

or anything. I'm in a 700-square-foot cement

12:28

box. You're in your flat. You're

12:30

in your own personal flat with your own clothes

12:32

and your own bedding and your own... By

12:36

the way, as you know, some

12:38

of our audience, just a

12:40

little bit OCD. Oh,

12:43

I'm right there with you. Yeah. And they're

12:45

noticing that spot over your left shoulder. I think that's a

12:47

thumb mistake. Yep. I

12:49

will tell you, I focused on that the second I turned

12:52

the camera on. What that is is a hook for

12:55

a jacket or whatever. Oh, all right. Put a jacket on there.

12:57

Would you put a hat on it next time? Leo, listen, I

12:59

am way ahead of you. When

13:01

we got home from lunch, I

13:03

looked... When we left, there was a

13:05

jacket hanging there. And I thought to myself, you know what? Maybe

13:08

that's going to make it okay. And then we got

13:10

back from lunch and I turned on the camera, and I

13:13

was like, where's the jacket? And I

13:15

think my wife, she cried, I'll get it out

13:17

of the video. She tidied it

13:19

up. Yeah. No, believe

13:21

me. I'm going to be... I'm like staring at it.

13:23

I know they ask. People

13:27

are going to wait for it to slowly start

13:29

moving across the wall, like at the differential or

13:31

something. They're not sure because it's so hard to

13:33

see. It's kind of like it might be a

13:35

dot on the camera. But now that you know...

13:37

No, it's a circular hook for a jacket. Yeah,

13:40

yeah, yeah. When my wife's on

13:42

the hook. Hey, Stephanie, bring us a hat. I

13:45

need a jacket and a cocktail. Yeah, a

13:47

jacket and a... The title

13:49

already. I can't... A

13:52

piss helmet. It's

13:54

like the beginning of a David Lee Roth video. Yeah. Give

13:57

me a jacket and a cocktail. So go. And

14:02

lawyers, guns and money. Windows,

14:05

radio silence from the

14:07

insider program all this week. What happened?

14:10

Yeah, we usually have some news about

14:12

stuff that happened in the insider program

14:15

last week, right, the previous week. And

14:18

this week, this past week, we've only gotten the one

14:20

build and it was in the beta channel and it's

14:22

just bug fixes. So the

14:24

thing is, the only thing you need

14:26

to know about this is if you are testing the beta

14:29

build, you're going to want to download this update because it

14:31

actually fixes a bunch of serious problems. And

14:34

you have to have that switch, right, in

14:36

Windows Update on, you know, I wind up

14:38

dates early. But there's

14:41

nothing, there's no new features. So for

14:43

the rest of the world, I get nothing to tell

14:45

you. So that's it. That's

14:48

all we have from the insider program. But

14:50

we do have a bunch of Windows news. Okay.

14:53

Fortunately. AI Windows news as it

14:56

has been all this year

14:58

and pretty much. And then more AI. Yeah,

15:00

yeah, yeah. I'm in the middle of

15:02

writing an article. One year ago yesterday, I wrote

15:04

an article called, This is Windows 12. And

15:08

the only thing I got wrong was the name. But

15:10

the, this coming

15:12

big update for Windows, which is kind

15:15

of all AI related, it's kind of

15:17

fascinating to look back

15:19

a year later and see

15:22

what has transpired because I don't

15:24

think, even as crazy as

15:26

it seemed last February when Microsoft

15:29

announced this thing with AI and

15:31

all this stuff. A year later,

15:33

it's I don't know one would have anticipated

15:35

this level of, you

15:38

know, update release, update, release, update,

15:40

release, you know, rebrand, rebrand, rebrand. I mean, it's

15:42

been a crazy year. And

15:44

we'll get, we'll get to that in a moment.

15:47

But one of the things that came out of

15:49

that was co pilot in Windows. And

15:52

I actually think we have a branding problem

15:55

here because there's, you know, there's

15:57

co pilot co pilot is the Microsoft brand for their

16:00

of AI functionality. It

16:02

was first in GitHub, that was the first time. And

16:05

then it made sense because it was your

16:07

programming partner, it was your co-pilot as you

16:09

wrote code. Yeah, and

16:11

actually somebody asked me about that late last

16:14

week and there's something interesting about co-pilot

16:17

for GitHub and that's that

16:19

it's not that expensive. It's only $10 per

16:21

month per user. Interesting. Co-pilot

16:23

Pro for Microsoft account

16:25

holders is $20 per month per

16:27

user and then it's more typical to see chat GPT

16:30

plus or

16:33

co-pilot in Microsoft 365 is $30 per user per month.

16:39

And the reason is the co-pilot

16:43

model, the thing that they're learning against,

16:46

the data set that they work against is

16:48

so much smaller, right? It's finite. It's literally

16:51

a set of programming related topics,

16:53

right? So that when

16:55

you cut down on what this thing needs to

16:57

learn, you can actually save a lot

17:00

of money. And

17:02

that's why co-pilot in Windows is free because

17:04

it's nothing. Interesting.

17:07

It's terrible. Yeah. Anyway,

17:09

but the free is what you're saying. Right.

17:13

You get what you pay for is what I'm saying. Which

17:15

model are they using? 3.5 of chat GPT? No,

17:19

so yeah, it's four and

17:21

then four turbo or 4.5 turbo. Yeah,

17:23

that's a smaller set. But

17:26

it depends on whether you're paying or not, right? And so as

17:29

part of the rebranding as they did, not

17:31

counting co-pilot, I mean, forget about GitHub for

17:34

a moment, but the rest of the co-pilot

17:36

branded products and services Microsoft has are all

17:38

using that same co-pilot base. And

17:40

it is on the latest version of chat GPT,

17:42

although they'll meter it if you're not paying obviously

17:45

and maybe even up it down to 3.5, depending

17:48

on how busy things are at the time or whatever.

17:52

You get precedents when you pay. But

17:55

they're really confusing matters a lot because we

17:57

have this notion of as part of the

17:59

rebranding. There's Microsoft co-pilot, but

18:02

there's co-pilot. There's

18:05

somebody in Discord. I added a jacket to

18:07

the... That's what we need. It's

18:09

good. The

18:11

jacket that was there was not that big, but it's... You

18:14

know, thank God for Photoshop is all I'm saying.

18:16

Here we go. Yeah. We can put a little

18:19

jacket on that hook and... Yeah,

18:21

it looks like I'm describing Brad Sam's right there.

18:24

Anywho, um... I

18:26

don't know where that came from. That's

18:29

really mean. And I'm not gonna tell Brad you

18:31

said that. Don't worry. This is how men interact.

18:33

I'm sorry. So... I

18:36

forgot what I was talking about. The

18:38

basis of Microsoft... Microsoft

18:40

co-pilot is the same everywhere. Right?

18:42

This free and paid versus obviously.

18:45

But we're getting... There's no...

18:48

It used to be Microsoft 365 co-pilot. It

18:50

used to be Windows co-pilot. Right? Now

18:53

it's co-pilot in these products. So

18:56

even in the confines of something like Microsoft 365,

18:59

we're gonna have something called

19:01

co-pilot in OneDrive soon. And

19:03

it's like, guys, I think we're getting a

19:06

little weird here. Because these

19:08

things all have unique functionality, etc. Or

19:10

at least they can. The

19:12

co-pilot in Windows, as we call it,

19:14

is not particularly interesting because the unique

19:17

functionality there is not very good. It's

19:19

just related to a handful of settings. Make

19:21

it darker. Yeah, or make me a Spotify

19:23

playlist. So you can't ask it

19:25

stuff. You can't say... No, you can't.

19:28

It does the basic... It does do

19:30

what co-pilot does. Right? So you can say, make

19:32

me a picture of a painting in the style

19:35

of whatever and you can do all that stuff.

19:37

Yeah. Is that what you

19:39

used for those amazing Master Chief

19:41

paintings that you did? Yeah. So

19:43

what I'm using is... I pay for

19:45

Co-Pilot Pro, which is the consumer version.

19:47

$20 per month. Right? So

19:50

sometime in the past, I don't know, two

19:52

weeks or so, they added that into Co-Pilot

19:55

in Windows. So I don't

19:57

do it that way. I don't actually like the sidebar. knows

20:00

if I wanted it. So it has that. It does.

20:02

It says Pro. It knows I did that. So

20:05

one of the things that just changed was they

20:07

did that for people who subscribe to Co-Pilot in

20:09

Microsoft 365. So

20:11

same thing with Pro. If you do subscribe

20:13

and pay for the Microsoft 365 version and

20:17

you access it through the sidebar, it knows

20:19

that. It will give you the little logo

20:21

so you can tell that you're getting it. And

20:23

you can do whatever you want to do through there. So

20:25

actually, it's pretty good. I

20:28

mean, so far, I would say the biggest

20:31

or best functionality in Compilot in

20:33

Microsoft 365 is the app-based stuff.

20:37

You go into Microsoft Word, for example, and it helps

20:39

you write and all that. You don't really do that

20:41

from the sidebar. But I think that's kind of

20:44

cool. It's

20:46

funny that $20 seems to be the going

20:50

rate for a Pro

20:52

subscription. That's what OpenAI

20:55

charges. It's what I'm using

20:57

Perplexity now, because you made me

20:59

start using the Arc browser. Yeah. Explain

21:01

what Perplexity is, though. This is an

21:03

LLM from, it's like open source. Well,

21:07

it's an interesting, I think

21:09

I like it. I might, well,

21:11

OK, I'll explain. So

21:13

it is a front end to AI. But

21:16

it doesn't have to be any particular AI.

21:18

So you can use a variety of models,

21:20

including chat GPT-4. Does

21:24

it pass through your capabilities based

21:27

on whether you pay for it or not? Yeah,

21:29

I guess. That's actually a good question. Because

21:32

I have chat GPT-4 through my

21:34

OpenAI subscription. So it's a little

21:36

confusing. So

21:39

Perplexity will let you choose

21:41

the model. I

21:43

actually am not logged into Pro right now. So I'll

21:45

re-log. Do you model stack? That

21:49

would be cool. I'll have to play

21:51

with it. It will let you do Google's,

21:54

what they call Gemini now, was Bard.

21:56

It will let you do, I think, Anthropics'

21:59

Claude. So there are a

22:01

number of really good so To

22:04

kind of explain this, you know, we've talked about

22:07

this before There's these large language models and there

22:09

many of them now meta open

22:11

source of their llama llama to Apple

22:14

has just released an open source

22:18

LLM So there there are

22:20

a lot of these around and they have I guess you

22:23

know They're all trained on roughly this I would guess the

22:25

same data the internet as a whole That's

22:28

a shrinking body of stuff

22:30

they can access and then they

22:32

have additional tuning on top of that that

22:34

makes them unique one

22:37

of the reasons I I'm hesitant to

22:39

cancel my Open AI subscription

22:41

is they have those GPTs and you remember

22:43

I've talked about this I've made two GPTs

22:46

which I use all the time one for

22:48

the programming language I use and one for the

22:51

editor I use and their reference

22:53

their references for me. They're fantastic

22:55

Fantastic, I cannot actually Know

22:58

this is the copilot thing but writ small a

23:00

little bit right? I know one of your better

23:02

because it doesn't hallucinate so I Know

23:05

right that's what it gets better. One of the instructions

23:07

I gave it was and under no

23:10

circumstances use anything that isn't in the

23:12

corpus Of works that I

23:14

gave you so I gave it, you know dozens of

23:16

PDFs Of you

23:18

know the nice thing about lisp the language

23:20

I like common list is it's so old

23:22

that everything's in the public domain So

23:26

I gave it all these yeah, I gave

23:28

it all these classic lisp books Somebody

23:31

sent me so and then I'm working. I'm

23:33

trying to understand something called a deterministic finite

23:36

automata Don't ask

23:39

but I love the language. Yeah, the chocolate

23:41

milk mini sips sent me a textbook I

23:44

guess PDF from when he was I mean

23:46

years ago studying this which I added now

23:48

all of a sudden my lisp AI

23:52

my lisp expert is also an expert

23:54

in DFAs and I can

23:56

say write me some lisp a DFA in lisp And

24:00

it will do it. But in Lisp, yeah. What's

24:02

your second one? I know about the Lisp. Emacs.

24:05

What's the other one? Emacs. Okay.

24:08

Emacs similarly, I put all the Emacs manual. This

24:10

is a good example. This is about keyboard shortcuts

24:12

essentially, right? Well, it's also program. Emacs is kind

24:14

of some wag once said

24:16

an operating system with a kind of half-decent header. Yeah,

24:19

a tech header in front of it. Yeah.

24:23

Because it's written in Lisp itself, it's

24:25

highly programmable. I mean, your Emacs, when you

24:27

get it, can not only tell you

24:29

what the moon thing is, it could, you know,

24:31

the phase of the moon, it could tell you

24:33

it has a ELISA built in, it has games

24:35

built in. Right. Because it's just really,

24:37

it's like an operating system. But

24:40

in order to use it effectively, you really need to know

24:42

a lot. And so I took all the, this is a

24:44

good example. If you've got a

24:46

bookshelf of manuals, whether it's

24:48

for a car or plumbing

24:51

or whatever, you could put this into it.

24:54

Yeah. And suddenly it is the expert,

24:56

you don't have to flip through stuff. You

24:59

could do this with Delphi. Yeah, this is going to be... If you gave

25:01

it your Delphi Bible... Well, I wouldn't do

25:03

it for Delphi. But I would do it for things

25:05

like, you know, the history of Microsoft, just page milestones,

25:07

dates, et cetera, you know. I

25:11

mean, this is probably months ago now, but for a

25:13

long time, I've been talking about this notion of consumers

25:16

not having the Microsoft graph and

25:19

that Microsoft is forcing OneDrive usage,

25:22

is forcing Outlook, new Outlook

25:24

usage, forcing edge usage,

25:26

not just for ads and, you know, that

25:28

stuff. Oh, that's definitely part of it. But

25:32

also because they need to create something for

25:34

consumers that's like the Microsoft graph. And

25:37

I look at my own, I'm going

25:40

to call it like work archive of documents,

25:42

which I think is a couple hundred gigabytes

25:44

or whatever, and it's 30 years of my

25:46

writing, you know. And one of

25:48

my weird problems, because I write so much, is

25:50

I'll start writing on a topic, and I'll think,

25:52

I know I've written something about this, and I

25:55

can't... My site church is

25:57

terrible. I try to do that stuff. But

26:00

yeah, just having something I go back and say, hey, what

26:03

have I said about this? You know, whatever. Or

26:05

when did this happen? You know, that kind of

26:08

stuff. Super super helpful. So

26:10

yeah, this is coming and

26:12

you know, your mechanic is mind-blowing. Excellent

26:16

because dating back

26:18

to say the beginning of the iPod era,

26:20

I remember a friend of mine wanting

26:23

to get an iPod and wanting to

26:25

buy music online and thinking to myself,

26:28

this is how I can tell this is

26:30

going mainstream because this particular person, it was

26:32

a good friend, but not technical in any

26:34

way, not into the tech world. This

26:37

has leached into the mainstream, right? And

26:39

I think the thing you just described is going to be the

26:41

moment, it's coming, it's going to come in like two days. It's

26:44

when I go to my mechanic and he does what you

26:46

just described or you go to, I'm trying to think of

26:48

example. I think it can be in your phone. So

26:51

you can literally. Yeah, you're under the car and

26:53

you're like, what is this thing do? What's the

26:55

part for this thing? Yeah. And

26:58

this is not science fiction. This is

27:00

not someday soon. I

27:02

mean, that's what really turned me

27:04

around in AI. By the way, I logged into

27:07

Perplexity. So I have Perplexity Pro, again,

27:09

20 bucks a month. Everybody seems to

27:11

settle on that except Microsoft which

27:14

is 30. But so

27:16

I can choose the model, the Perplexity

27:18

model, there's an experimental model, GPT-4, Claude

27:22

2.1 and Gemini Pro. So those

27:24

are currently the models. So

27:29

yeah. So I'll give

27:31

you an example of some of this stuff. Like the other day,

27:33

I was saying,

27:35

well, how do, what was, can

27:38

I power a Vision Pro through

27:43

a battery pack? So I

27:45

wanted to know what's the wattage of PD,

27:47

power delivery. Perfect answer. Gave

27:50

me all the information, gave me all, this is what I used to

27:52

use Niva for, gave me

27:54

all the references. So I

27:57

know it's not hallucinating this.

28:00

Well, and you're, again, because

28:02

you're limiting, it's not going out in

28:04

Google searching and scraping although... Well, it

28:06

is. I think it

28:08

is. No, but it's doing a subset. And

28:12

I think that's the key to making

28:14

AI more accurate in solving this hallucination

28:16

problem. So

28:18

that's the interesting point because generally

28:24

these LLMs are frozen in time.

28:29

And remember, chatgbt 3.5 was frozen in 2022, I

28:31

think. So

28:36

it's been a while. I

28:38

got to show you this though. So

28:42

adding a surfing, which you

28:44

can do, I think, and I bet you could do with

28:46

a copilot with Bing, right? Is

28:48

adding that information makes it current.

28:53

But there's a risk. So

28:55

let me see if I can show you this. A

28:59

guy sent me his Microsoft

29:01

copilot search results. He

29:05

asked it, what are the origins of the...

29:09

Let me... I have to download this, I guess,

29:11

to show it to you. The

29:14

origins of the Arab-Israeli conflict.

29:16

And he

29:18

sent me a screenshot. It

29:22

had all the normal stuff at

29:24

first. The last creation of Israel,

29:26

Zionism, there was a whole... And

29:29

this is obviously a very politicized topic,

29:32

right? But the last piece

29:34

in this, point

29:38

four, Satan's role. Beyond

29:41

geopolitical factors, there's a deeper spiritual

29:44

dimension. The true source of the

29:46

Arab-Israeli conflict lies in Satan's fight

29:48

against God. This

29:51

is copilot. He manipulates

29:53

propaganda, terrorist groups, and anti-global tensions

29:55

to lay his own doom and

29:57

exterminate God's people. Well,

30:00

I mean when you say it's co-pilot, what

30:03

you're really saying is it's chat GPT rate.

30:05

I mean that's the... And it found a

30:07

source, obviously a demented source. I

30:09

mean actually this is valuable if it would have... Oh, actually you

30:11

know what? You may be right. I think

30:13

the insanity here might be because co-pilot

30:17

is when you add...what happens when you add

30:19

Bing to chat... Yeah. Yes

30:22

and I think it has a number

30:24

of references

30:26

in here. So I think it is using Bing but

30:28

it could easily just be in chat GPT. That's how

30:30

they bring it up to date, right? They're

30:33

searching the web, which is what you don't want. So

30:38

I...look, there's a...I don't have this in

30:40

the notes but like I said, there's

30:42

gonna be a co-pilot in OneDrive and

30:44

that's gonna be something people can use

30:47

to throw their...whatever body of data you

30:49

have into this thing and just

30:51

work against that. It's better

30:54

if you say this is the corpus. Yes.

30:57

You know, but that's... Make it as finite as possible. Up to now. Make

31:00

it as specific to whatever the task is as possible.

31:02

The best uses of AI have been like radiologists. So

31:05

the AI is trained on a

31:07

bunch of, you know, millions... Patent

31:09

recognition summarizing. These are things that

31:11

AI is very good at. It's good at. I make

31:13

this joke, this is just a joke, but what AI

31:15

is bad at is math where you say what's 11

31:17

plus 7 and it says Q. You're

31:19

like, yeah, that's right. Yes. It

31:21

wouldn't...actually this answer about Satan wouldn't have been so bad

31:23

if it had put it in a

31:25

bling thing. There are

31:28

some Christians who believe this. Okay.

31:32

But it's quoted as authoritative, like, well, there's

31:35

four points. I would argue that

31:37

it would be smarter if we just ignored that part of

31:39

it. Maybe. Yes,

31:41

maybe. So that's important

31:43

to keep...you know, when you

31:45

get this stuff...and Microsoft says that at

31:47

the bottom of every search, you

31:50

know, this is...there may be errors here. Yep.

31:54

Sorry. Well, we have an...I mean, let's not

31:57

blow away our AI section. Oh, that's for

31:59

later. Okay. We're still talking about it. It

32:02

would be accessed from. Well, specifically in

32:04

windows, right? So there were two updates

32:07

to that windows sidebar this past week.

32:09

One is the addition of my Microsoft

32:11

365 capabilities, which, you know, not a

32:13

big deal, but it was already available to pro users.

32:16

Oh, and speaking of which, um, to your point about the $30.

32:20

So $20 makes sense, uh,

32:22

or it is consistent for things like

32:24

chat GPT and copilot

32:27

pro. But I think

32:29

the additional $10 in Microsoft 365 is

32:31

literally the graph and that

32:33

it's working across data

32:35

that by and large is stored inside

32:38

Microsoft, right inside their data centers and

32:40

that you're getting capabilities inside of apps

32:42

like word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook, etc.

32:46

That these other things can't do

32:48

right. So there is additional functionality.

32:50

It's not just their arbitrarily making

32:52

it $10 per month more. Okay.

32:55

They're paying extra 10 bucks for the extra.

32:57

You're getting that thing you get with the

32:59

20 bucks from somewhere else, but you're also

33:01

getting the Microsoft 365 stuff. And

33:03

I think that's that explains perfect. Yeah.

33:06

So the second edition came yesterday and

33:08

this one came out of nowhere and I was

33:11

actually really happy to see this happen, not because

33:13

I care about this feature edition, but

33:15

because the woman that tweeted about it, uh, is

33:18

the vice corporate vice president of Microsoft, uh, Sheila,

33:20

I'm going to burst her last name. I apologize.

33:23

Ring Anna. Then, um, this

33:25

woman has only tweeted twice in the past

33:27

year, but, uh, she tweeted yesterday

33:29

that windows co-pilot will now launch in a,

33:31

in a wider sidebar, which is not particularly

33:33

interesting or whatever. It's resizable and also they

33:35

have a little toggle up there so you

33:38

can toggle the size between the old size

33:40

and the new size. Right.

33:43

And, um, this is, uh, this is only interesting

33:45

to me on two levels. One is that we don't

33:47

really hear from these people that much. So maybe something

33:49

is rubbing up a little bit. Um,

33:51

but also I just. Wrong enough on. Wrong

33:55

Enough. I'm saying, yeah. So, uh, it's, uh,

33:57

yeah, I'm not good at stuff like this.

34:00

Imma seeing this and when I realized

34:02

later was that is because of in

34:04

Mexico So this feature has rolled rolled

34:06

out and we discovered I and I

34:08

asked her and she responds. On

34:11

Ice Honey Honey get the something like

34:13

with which the mechanism by which this

34:15

is delivered to the operating system and

34:17

he may be fascinated to discover. That.

34:20

Is not Windows update. It. Is

34:22

not the Microsoft store. It's. Microsoft

34:24

Edge. See. You around on

34:26

a hob did it's latest version. oh my.

34:28

and once you do. You'll.

34:32

Get this functionality because we it is came

34:34

up of boy and of several months ago.

34:36

But that sidebar as it is in fact

34:38

another example of Microsoft Edge on you insert.

34:41

it's another instance of X even though zone

34:43

the button is in his in the back

34:45

where the charms are, it is actually get

34:47

an edge. It's Microsoft the here. While.

34:50

You may choose chrome or whatever but you have

34:52

to use edged he this product and window trust

34:54

in them and however but it's not a big

34:57

deal. Which. Up I

34:59

can have it. Is that? Ah, So.

35:04

I. Get I don't know from using the least edge. So.

35:07

When he didn't mean to say in updated the

35:09

I I I'm I'm fully updated. I don't have

35:11

it as it's because on the next go if

35:13

you look at the list of countries where this

35:15

is available I think this is one of it's

35:17

also way I can access copilot on my phone.

35:20

I saw it gives me a weird every message but

35:22

i think it's Mexico and the some strange about this

35:24

is if i go to the at to the web.

35:27

I can generate images like I've been

35:29

doing for my sight no problem by

35:31

parker the sidebar in windows and they

35:33

mobile app on Android. Will.

35:35

Not work here and you're not using a

35:38

Vpn. Them. Are. You. Know

35:40

but I. I don't think

35:42

it's not such as I don't think

35:44

it's I think it's mountainous. Non non

35:46

essential. Question them because you key eyes.

35:48

He had one at home that was

35:50

my the desktop Whitworth by obvious himself

35:52

carrier. he knows your carrier and nausea

35:54

and Mexico. i don't know why

35:56

the web vs working i was an amazing

35:59

her I guess technically because

36:01

the cloud server is not here, I guess

36:03

it might be why. But

36:05

yeah, I can't when I run it locally in

36:07

the operating system, it doesn't work. Anyway,

36:09

I was, look, this feature is not interesting

36:11

to me in the slightest. I don't like sidebars, I don't whatever.

36:14

But the notion that that's

36:17

how, that's the mechanism by which this

36:19

thing is updated is kind

36:22

of blows my mind. It's Edge. Yeah,

36:24

it's Microsoft Edge. What does that mean? Does it

36:26

mean that they want to, hmm, it's interesting. It's

36:28

just kind of an engine. Yes,

36:32

it's probably right. I mean, it's

36:34

obviously using the, it's not just the, like,

36:36

it's not about the rendering engine so much

36:38

as it is the UI is delivered as

36:40

part of Edge, I think, right? So

36:42

when you get this update and

36:44

open the sidebar, in addition to

36:47

being wider and being resizable, there's

36:49

an additional little button up at the corner and that

36:51

lets you toggle between the two default

36:54

sizes. And

36:56

that is, I mean, we talk about, you know, Edge

36:58

Bloat and, ooh, look at that, there's all kinds of

37:00

issues. I can make Bing go bigger. This is like,

37:02

I can make Bing go bigger. This is

37:05

the rather, this is an extreme version of Bloat,

37:07

is it? I mean, like an AI sidebar in

37:09

Windows, that's pretty interesting. Yeah, it's

37:12

interesting. It

37:14

is interesting. Alright, so, yeah,

37:16

you know, it's funny, I have Bing chat. I

37:18

haven't done a lot of time comparison between all

37:20

these different chat things I have. And

37:24

I presume that if it's using OpenAI, it's going

37:26

to be, but as you say,

37:28

it's OpenAI plus. So,

37:30

yeah, and Microsoft doesn't tell us exactly what that

37:32

means. I mean, part of it is Bing, for

37:34

sure. And this isn't the exact

37:36

wording, but Yousaf Meti, almost a year ago, described

37:38

it as some kind of a, you know,

37:41

Microsoft secret sauce. And

37:43

this is the weird thing they have with

37:46

their partnership with OpenAI, where these guys are

37:48

obviously partners, but they're competing against each other

37:50

as well. And there have been very overt

37:52

examples of Microsoft salespeople

37:55

kind of dumping on OpenAI because their version

37:57

of this doesn't have their stuff in it.

38:00

know and whether or not you

38:02

think that the Microsoft editions are an advantage

38:05

or a something that hobbles

38:07

them you know I don't know but yeah yeah if you're

38:09

showing the screen now so if you look at that button

38:11

up in the right corner next to the X that's

38:14

the new button and that should toggle it between

38:16

two sizes is my guess or just

38:19

docking it show is overlay versus

38:21

not so it's making it a

38:24

window as opposed to an early on

38:27

edge I guess right okay that's okay

38:29

that's my closed edge yeah it stays

38:31

well it's it's you're yeah you're creating

38:33

a so one

38:35

of the promises with co-pilot the sidebar is

38:38

that it it pushes windows

38:40

over when it opens and then

38:42

when you close they're all still pushed over so if

38:45

I believe this new functionality then would hopefully

38:48

prevent that from happening it would allow this thing

38:50

to appear on top of other windows and then

38:52

not move them around just my guess huh

38:57

so if I close this yeah well

39:00

it's not gonna collect it edges the

39:02

edge application running is not gonna edges

39:05

running in the background right it's yeah

39:07

there's a button that's open in Microsoft

39:09

Edge refresh so no

39:12

this just has to do with it

39:14

it's position like z order compared to

39:16

other okay windows shows you can't

39:18

when this side kind of show is overlay

39:20

I get it okay I get it when

39:22

it's not when it doesn't allow overlay as

39:24

far as desktop or any apps are concerned

39:26

that the desktop size is smaller right right

39:29

I think it's the right

39:31

that makes sense so

39:33

this is cool I guess

39:35

yeah I guess I guess

39:37

I think it is what a precursor

39:40

though of AI everywhere right on everything

39:43

all over my stuff this

39:45

is the thing so are we gonna get I don't want

39:48

to I'm sorry I'm stepping all over myself here I don't

39:50

want to get too far okay okay okay okay sorry no

39:53

no it's I let it happen to

39:55

I will get there there's

39:58

some interesting stuff going on here so how

40:00

we get AI in different products, not

40:02

just Windows. But yeah, it has

40:05

to do with Stevie Viteesh and the side-by-side

40:07

thing, remember? You know, the very nature of

40:09

Copilot is that it is next to you.

40:12

Right. Or next to what you're doing. That is the point of it.

40:14

You know, some people will say, well, I don't know why we have

40:16

to have a sidebar. And it's like, because the

40:18

thing you're working in doesn't have any

40:20

AI in it. You know, eventually these things will

40:22

become smarter about that thing that you're working next.

40:24

And then the thing itself will become smarter and

40:26

just have features built in. So that's all part

40:28

of the evolution. Anyhow.

40:32

You said Windows 12 at the beginning of the show.

40:35

There, I just saw a

40:37

rumor that Windows 12 is

40:39

the name that we're gonna see in the middle of

40:41

the year at some point. So,

40:43

just like picking the winner of the Super Bowl, you're

40:46

gonna hear things on the inside of it. I

40:49

know who's gonna win the Super Bowl. You don't have to

40:51

ask me that. I know exactly. Wow.

40:54

Is it because you asked Ark? No, it's because

40:56

I know in my heart. That

40:58

my boys will win. What did Ark say? Well, I'll

41:00

tell you, when I asked Ark, they said the same

41:02

thing. So, there you go. Good.

41:05

All right. And I assume by your voice, you mean San Francisco. I

41:07

do. So, there are, I

41:09

think I put this on Instagram somewhere. Someone

41:12

has gone around Mexico City, and

41:14

by someone I think I mean the NFL. They

41:17

have spray-painted, no, I'm not kidding. No,

41:19

I believe. They have spray-painted on sidewalks

41:22

everywhere information about the Super

41:24

Bowl, the teams that are playing, what time it's

41:26

playing locally, it's everywhere.

41:30

And if you think about a sidewalk and how they have these

41:32

kind of grid sizes of

41:34

cement, it's that big. It's

41:36

six feet by six feet or whatever. They're

41:39

everywhere. And we were out there

41:41

just staring at the skywalks. And he goes, what

41:44

did this happen? I'm

41:47

like, I don't know. We woke up and

41:49

they were everywhere. Like, they're really, I know

41:51

that's one way to promote. Is

41:53

that legal? I don't know.

41:57

I feel like graffiti, but I guess because it's on

41:59

the grid. It's like

42:01

you walk outside in the desert and it's snowing and

42:03

everyone's scratching their heads and they're like, how did this

42:05

get here? Well, you know, there was

42:08

a truck and one guy with a stencil and actually

42:10

four guys appeared one day. Okay, you

42:12

do blue. Okay, you do red. Okay, you do green. Right.

42:15

It's probably a stencil and they probably blew it on really

42:17

quick. It's silent. So you wouldn't hear them. Yeah.

42:19

Like three o'clock in the morning or something. It's

42:21

graffiti though. It is

42:24

graffiti. I can remember this happening before

42:26

for other things, but remember the NFL

42:28

really wants to grow nationally, right?

42:30

Yeah. So

42:34

I think they've already played games. Oh, they play in

42:36

Mexico City every year. In fact, they just announced a

42:38

new series of games. I think in Argentina or something.

42:40

I know Brazil is going to be wild. Brazil, maybe

42:43

that's the one. You know, if you thought playing in

42:45

Denver was hard, welcome to Mexico City, folks. Yeah, it's

42:47

a little higher. Yeah. Wow.

42:49

Wow. Yeah. Okay.

42:53

So there's a debate. We're debating. And

42:55

honestly, I think Microsoft is debating because

42:58

between extending the support of Windows 10,

43:00

right? Another three years. Do

43:03

they really want to have the confusion of

43:05

three different supported Windows versions in the market

43:07

at the same time? You can

43:09

make a pretty good case that no, they do not

43:11

want that. And that may be going forward with Windows

43:13

11 might be the right idea. So

43:15

we'll see how they ultimately do brand this

43:17

thing. But we know that

43:21

there is a major release of Windows coming. There's

43:23

some debate about the timing too, by the way. It's not just

43:25

the name. A lot of people seem to believe it's going to

43:27

happen in the first half of the year, which

43:29

we haven't seen ever. I

43:32

don't know. I'd have to go back. Really. I

43:34

mean, maybe Windows 3 something was April maybe.

43:36

But, you know, Windows 10, the first version

43:38

was July 2015. Windows 11

43:40

was October 2020. What?

43:43

2020, 2021, whatever year that was. We

43:48

haven't done that. Not including the H1, H2 things,

43:50

but I mean an actual new version of Windows.

43:53

So whatever the timing is and whatever

43:55

the name is, you know, we'll

43:57

see. But we know it's coming. And there

43:59

have been. from Microsoft,

44:02

there have been indications from their partners of

44:04

different names actually. The latest one

44:07

is official support, I would call

44:09

it a Microsoft support page that

44:11

specifically mentions Windows 11 version 24H2. To

44:15

be honest, I don't actually think this means too much

44:17

because even if there's a Windows 12, there's

44:19

still gonna be a Windows 11 24H2. So

44:21

it's not like they just stop updating

44:23

it. I mean, even when Windows 11

44:25

came out, there were versions of Windows

44:27

10, right? So we'll see. But

44:31

this is, you know,

44:33

whatever they call it, like I said, what do

44:35

they call them? Yeah, what does it

44:37

matter, I guess? It's just a number, right? Well, what does it

44:39

matter? I don't know, this is all we care about here, Leo.

44:41

It's like, it doesn't matter at all. You

44:44

know, he knows a lot, you know, about nothing.

44:48

You're listening to Windows Weekly, let's pause just

44:50

briefly. Paul Thiratt is here, as you may

44:53

have noticed, Richard Kimball's not. He is stuck

44:56

on a long drive, it sounds

44:58

like. Yeah, oh, I

45:00

should tell you, I'm sorry to interrupt, but he

45:02

texted. Update, update, this is him. He

45:04

will be here. Oh, God damn it. He seems, I

45:06

know. I know. What

45:09

time is it? He could be here in as soon

45:11

as half an hour, 35 minutes. Okay, Kevin, prepare the

45:13

double box. Okay.

45:16

Put out the good linen. Ha ha ha ha ha.

45:20

Campbell is on the way. Campbell is on the

45:22

way. Since our founding in 2000, we

45:25

at the Center for Internet Security have always had

45:27

one mission. It's to create confidence

45:29

in the connected world for people, businesses,

45:32

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45:34

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45:46

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46:10

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46:17

CIS, we're all about making the connected

46:19

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46:21

our website to learn more. All

46:24

right. Our show continues with,

46:26

oh, this

46:28

one. This is, Steve Gibson talked a little bit

46:30

about this, the Mozilla article

46:32

about how the big platforms

46:34

basically are screwing Mozilla. So

46:38

I came away with

46:40

three takeaways from

46:42

this that were not

46:44

anything that Mozilla wrote about and I'm very curious

46:46

to see what you have to say about this.

46:48

But before we get to that, it

46:50

will come as no surprise that Mozilla has been fighting

46:53

this good fight since this was a good fight, right?

46:55

They were the original, the OG complainers

46:57

about big tech. They took, in

46:59

the form of Netscape, took Microsoft

47:01

all the way to antitrust federal

47:04

court, right? And

47:07

the outcome of that was unfortunate. Netscape disappeared. They

47:10

were swallowed up by AOL originally and then

47:12

disappeared entirely. And in their death throes, they

47:16

ejected Mozilla out into the world, this

47:18

kind of high-minded, open source, free,

47:21

as in free kind of a company, released

47:24

the source code, et cetera, et cetera. And

47:26

now we have this 20 plus years of

47:28

browsers that have kind of occurred

47:30

in their wake. What

47:33

they've done now though, and we're

47:35

seeing this, Epic Games has sued Google

47:38

and Apple. Spotify was the impetus for

47:40

the DMA that the EU has now,

47:42

right? They complained about Apple. And

47:45

we're starting to, Sona's just complained about Google took

47:47

them to court actually. We're

47:49

starting to see companies come out and complain,

47:51

right? And this

47:53

is not new. I mean, Mozilla has a rich

47:56

history of doing this type

47:58

of thing. their

48:00

current complaint is particularly well done

48:02

because they started a GitHub repository

48:05

documenting all the ways that the platform

48:07

makers, Apple, Google, and Microsoft, screw

48:09

them over and make

48:11

it impossible for them to compete. And

48:14

I read through this and I thought, okay,

48:16

like I understand this stuff really well. If

48:18

you look at the three things they complain

48:21

about from Microsoft, these are topics we've

48:23

been talking about for years. We know this, right?

48:26

And there's a whole, we know what they do.

48:28

We know how Edge still runs when you click

48:30

on a search result or a widget. We know

48:32

that Edge runs when you use that sidebar. We

48:34

were just talking about the co-pilot sidebar, right? We

48:36

know that Microsoft tried to get rid of default

48:38

apps, an interface that came out of their antitrust

48:40

troubles in 1998 or nine, whatever year that was in

48:44

Windows 11. And so many people complained they put it

48:46

back in, but then completely defanged it. So it actually

48:48

doesn't work the way it's supposed to. And they make

48:50

it really, really hard for you

48:53

to change the default, right?

48:56

When NetScape was competing and then

48:58

Mozilla later was competing with Microsoft

49:00

and Internet Explorer, that

49:02

was the battle. It was the battle of defaults,

49:05

like the power of defaults. We all know that

49:07

people take the path of least resistance and that if

49:09

you make something the default, the majority of people would

49:12

just take it. They won't even experiment.

49:14

They don't care. And that

49:16

was bad enough. But now these

49:18

platform makers are really tilting the playing

49:22

field of people, which was how they describe it, right?

49:24

They call it the platform tilt.

49:26

They're putting their finger on the scale and

49:28

they're more explicitly kind of forcing

49:30

users in some cases to

49:33

not use rival browsers, right? And

49:36

so here, this is fascinating to

49:39

me. So this in certification, right? As

49:41

Corey Doctor wrote then, I

49:43

believe that in certification as he

49:45

defines it, and as we know it, and as we see

49:47

it out in the world, actually started

49:49

with the iPhone and with smartphones,

49:52

because these companies, Apple first, of

49:54

course, but also Google, right? Apple

49:57

in their case had been defeated so many times at the

49:59

hand of Microsoft. Microsoft, that they were like, we're not

50:01

going to have an open market where we can compete on

50:03

an even playing field. We're going to

50:05

make sure that this thing is a walled guard that we control. And

50:08

that's the only way we're ever going to succeed. And by the

50:10

way, worked out great for them. But it also

50:12

eliminates a lot of choice. But it also

50:14

eliminates a lot of competition, right? And

50:17

this mentality has

50:21

pervaded beyond mobile. Windows

50:24

10 first, well, Windows 8 to some degree,

50:26

but Windows 10 especially, and now Windows

50:29

11 even worse, is

50:32

an example of Microsoft taking what

50:34

they see the mobile platform makers doing and

50:36

applying it to a desktop system to

50:38

limit the availability of choice and

50:41

then making it harder for these rival

50:43

companies to create third party products that

50:45

will compete with the stuff that they

50:47

make. So there's one

50:49

aspect of it. So we're starting to

50:51

see this kind of lockdown, lack of choice.

50:54

And I mentioned that default apps

50:56

is a great example of

50:58

them actually overreaching and they weren't able

51:00

to get that going. The second one

51:03

is that Firefox, you can look this up. It's

51:05

very simple. Go to Stack counter or wherever you

51:07

want to go and look at how their market

51:10

share really used to share has declined over the

51:12

years. And it was a magical moment. I

51:15

think it was 2009, two

51:17

years after the iPhone came up, but one or two years

51:19

before it was surging

51:21

and available worldwide, where

51:23

they were the most popular browse in the world. They

51:26

had about 30, 32% usage share. And then

51:28

it's been on a rocket sled

51:31

downward slope ever since then. And

51:34

there's no doubt that Mozilla made

51:36

mistakes, strategy mistakes, product mistakes, whatever

51:39

it is. There's no doubt that there's been improved

51:41

competition that when Microsoft stopped

51:44

updating IE6, IE

51:46

with IE6, other

51:48

companies stepped in and most probably Chrome,

51:52

Google with Chrome and took away some

51:54

of that share as well. There's competition

51:56

occurring too. But when

51:58

you look at... Firefox today,

52:00

you see something very stark, right?

52:03

You see single digit usage share

52:05

on desktop. But when you

52:07

factor in mobile, the entire personal computing space,

52:10

their usage share is 0.5%. They

52:14

went from 30% of the market, the

52:16

entire market, to less than a

52:18

half of, to one half of 1%. And

52:23

I think a lot of that can

52:25

be tied to the smartphone era initiated

52:27

in certification policy,

52:29

where they make it impossible for

52:31

Firefox, or difficult at least, but impossible in

52:34

some cases, to really differentiate themselves on mobile.

52:37

And people just, you

52:39

know, for a long time, you couldn't even choose another

52:41

browser. It was not, you could install a browser, but

52:43

your default was always gonna be Safari, or whatever, or

52:45

Chrome on Android. So I think these

52:48

things are tied together. And the proof point for

52:50

this, and this is really astonishing, I

52:52

just, the problem is I don't have

52:54

a hard number on this one, but there

52:56

is one platform out there, which has not been

52:58

insuredified, because it's not controlled by anybody. And

53:01

that platform is Linux. And if you look at Firefox

53:04

usage on Linux, which I

53:07

can't do to any degree of accuracy, but anyone who

53:09

uses Linux will tell you that this is true, Firefox

53:11

is all over the place. It's often

53:14

the default browser in these distributions.

53:16

And when you have a system

53:18

where the default you choose is

53:20

based entirely on user choice or

53:22

preferences, and thus that's what the

53:24

maker of that thing does, then

53:27

you can see the difference between a world in

53:30

which we don't have insuredification, which is Linux, and a

53:32

world in which we do, which is Android, iOS,

53:34

Windows, whatever you like, all the other ones. And

53:37

the fact that Linux is the one

53:39

place in the world where Firefox

53:41

actually still thrives is

53:44

astonishing. I know it's probably going downhill now, I'm

53:46

sure there are Chromium based things happening now, but

53:49

the reason for that is just inertia. I

53:51

mean, eventually the cancer

53:53

that killed Firefox everywhere is

53:55

gonna kill it literally everywhere.

53:57

The other takeaway that I got out of this...

54:00

Mozilla thing was if you look at their issue

54:03

tracker, right, where they track the issues that

54:05

each of the three platform makers have, Google

54:08

and Microsoft both have three issues, major

54:11

issues. One of those issues on each is

54:13

the same as the issue on the other. So they both do

54:15

one of the same things. And

54:18

Apple has 11. Apple,

54:21

Apple is so restrictive that they're somehow about three

54:23

and a half times as terrible as

54:25

Google and Microsoft when it comes to the kind

54:27

of the money thing, but that's a wall for

54:30

you. I mean, that's really almost the definition. I

54:32

think if you want to, when we write the

54:34

story one day and we will that

54:37

Mozilla tried and failed just

54:40

like Netscape. There were, yes, they made mistakes

54:42

and just like that. Yes. In some cases,

54:44

competitors had better features, etc. But I think,

54:47

I think this true tale

54:49

that will be told here is that Apple killed

54:51

Mozilla or Firefox. Wow. It was

54:53

so depressing. Yep. And that was my key

54:55

takeaway. It was like the, the in certification

54:57

that we've been talking about for the past

55:00

six, eight, 10, whatever months, thanks to Cory

55:02

Doctorow can be traced back directly to

55:04

the iPhone. Not that there weren't things in

55:06

the past that were crappy and terrible. I

55:08

mean, obviously this has been going on for

55:10

a while, but the way that this has

55:12

pervaded our industry, it's Apple's fault. There's

55:15

no doubt about it. Yeah.

55:17

Well, and Mozilla was very upset about

55:20

Apple's concessions to the EU

55:22

and the digital markets act. Yes, of course

55:24

everyone is. I mean, of course,

55:27

because they, the question there, Apple's going to make us

55:30

write two browsers, one for iOS

55:32

everywhere in the world and one for

55:34

iOS. What would

55:37

be more horrible than being

55:39

forced to use a browser rendering engine

55:41

that you didn't make on some other platform? It

55:43

would be having to jump through all these hoops so

55:46

you can do this stupid thing and then you just ended up losing

55:48

money. They've orchestrated this in

55:50

such a way that, you know, so

55:52

I really, if the EU is going to accept

55:56

their solution, I think the EU is going to come back

55:58

and say, I think they have to. I

56:00

think they're going to soon though. It's next month.

56:03

So it's a tough thing.

56:05

Look, we look even Apple's

56:08

biggest fans who I think are the most I

56:10

mean the people who just love everything they do and

56:12

don't care about the ramifications and how is she the

56:15

good stuff? Yeah. Okay.

56:17

Those people, whoever that those

56:19

people, that guy, that guy

56:23

would have to admit that

56:25

there are downsides to this and that what

56:27

they've done does not meet the spirit of

56:30

this regulation, which I'm

56:32

sure they don't agree with. I know they're doing

56:34

the least thing. This is the rule. This is

56:36

the rule law and they're not meeting that report.

56:38

I think even those they even

56:41

say we don't want to do this. We

56:43

think it's really bad for our users and

56:45

it's a security issue, but since they're making

56:47

us, we're going to do the best thing

56:49

we can do. Well, it's the test. That's not

56:51

what no, no, no. Listen, I,

56:53

I, I previously mentioned the fact and

56:56

I did not come up with this. This is not an original

56:58

thought on my part, but somebody had written this notion like explain

57:00

to me out in

57:02

the corporate world that there's a deal between two companies

57:04

and that deal includes the

57:06

moving of 20 plus billion dollars

57:08

per year from one company to the

57:11

other. And they're not touting this

57:13

to the rooftops. That's Apple, by the

57:15

way. Apple is also the company that

57:17

will contort itself. Like most people would

57:19

say, think about GDPR, right? These, this

57:21

data protection regulation to have in the

57:23

EU most, no, not most all cloud

57:25

providers basically said, look, it

57:27

would be stupid to do one thing here and

57:29

one thing here. We're going to work

57:32

toward GDPR compatibility to 100%

57:34

across the board everywhere

57:36

in the world because it's just the best thing for customers.

57:38

It's the best thing for us. Apple,

57:40

the most, that most belligerent of companies

57:42

looks at the same situation and says,

57:44

you know what? We're going to go

57:46

to the time and effort and spend the money to

57:48

have two versions of everything we make because screw everybody.

57:51

And that is, that says

57:53

more to me about the actual caliber

57:56

and quality of this company than any

57:59

of their marketing. Any of their everything works together

58:01

great blah blah blah blah blah whatever I

58:04

just it's just frustrating

58:07

how How

58:10

different the reality of this company is from

58:12

the impression that people have of it. Yeah,

58:14

it's terrible It's a terrible company at

58:17

the very least I would just ask you to believe this because I know

58:19

some people are already trying to grab the

58:21

little nasty your emails You

58:24

can't get this big and not be terrible. So I

58:26

the very least please you can look you can look

58:28

at the evidence Whatever but you know Apple

58:30

Google Microsoft Facebook any of these companies They're

58:32

all terrible at least understand that I

58:34

don't pretend that they are in any way better

58:37

They absolutely are not and I will say just

58:39

personally I fell into a trap Of

58:43

believing that was true of Microsoft for several

58:45

years because this company refused to do anything

58:47

aggressive, right? All they did was talk about

58:49

meeting customers where they were in partner with

58:51

everybody in Kumbaya And I thought my god

58:54

they changed and then the last year happened

58:56

and I realized no No, that is just terrible and

58:58

I think this is a maturity moment that we all need to

59:00

get I got a text

59:02

yesterday During security

59:04

now from a company saying would you

59:06

like to participate in a survey? I always say no to

59:09

these but I don't know why I was just

59:11

sitting there I didn't have much to do with security now. So I said,

59:13

I'll go ahead And I and

59:15

I went through it and was asking me What

59:17

do you think of all these companies Apple Microsoft

59:19

Amazon Google? It was lots of like questions about

59:22

their reputation stuff And then I so I

59:24

got to the end of it and I said, okay Would you like to

59:26

go a little deeper and I said, yeah, and it turned out was it

59:28

was Amazon doing this poll Because all the

59:30

subsequent questions were well, do you think Amazon's a

59:32

good employer? Do they do you think they treat

59:34

their employees? Well, you think they pay them well?

59:38

Do you think they make executives cry at their desk every

59:41

day? No,

59:43

they didn't ask him Oh Stephanie, I hope it's every day

59:45

put up put us up I think well, you open an

59:47

Amazon bucks. Could you put something on that hook? People are

59:49

upset about that dot on the wall Do you like hanging

59:52

a jacket back on that? I

1:00:00

Thanks, honey. Actually, it'd be a

1:00:02

good place for a clock. Yeah,

1:00:06

yeah. I'm

1:00:08

just thinking. Anyway, what were we saying? That

1:00:13

Apple is terrible and Firefox is going

1:00:15

to die. And when that happens, I

1:00:17

want the history that gets written to

1:00:19

be accurate to say Apple killed Firefox.

1:00:22

Because that's the reason they died. But it got help from

1:00:24

the other guys. I know it's not the only reason. I'm

1:00:28

just saying, look, it's never

1:00:31

any one thing. Perfect. Perfect.

1:00:34

Is it too much color? No, no,

1:00:37

it's perfect. No, it's fine.

1:00:39

Perfect. Thank you. They're

1:00:41

going crazy in the Discord. They're

1:00:44

so happy. Okay,

1:00:46

good. Anywho,

1:00:50

this is... Microsoft, Google,

1:00:53

they were accessories after the

1:00:55

fact, but the murderer was

1:00:57

Apple. That's right. Actually, I

1:00:59

would call them copycat killers. That would be the term.

1:01:02

Okay. Apple is a serial killer.

1:01:05

Microsoft and Google are copycat killers. Let's

1:01:07

just get this accurate. And it's

1:01:09

said, you know, I'm kind of... I'm also

1:01:11

an accessory after the fact because now I'm using Arc,

1:01:15

which is a chromium derivative. Well, look, as a user,

1:01:17

you have to do the right thing. That's

1:01:20

right for you. And you exist

1:01:22

in the real world in which these forces

1:01:25

have arrayed against not just Firefox,

1:01:27

but you. Right? And

1:01:29

that's... You know, you can't

1:01:31

just... I'm

1:01:33

going to use Firefox forever because, you know, I mean,

1:01:36

that's a great position to take, but... Except

1:01:39

that it isn't, you know, unfortunately, like

1:01:41

I would love that Firefox... If

1:01:44

Firefox could fight Chrome

1:01:46

and whatever else on an even footing, we

1:01:49

wouldn't live in a very different world today. And

1:01:52

I still love Firefox. I, you know... I

1:01:54

did too. The only difference really

1:01:57

between Firefox and Arc is

1:01:59

the UI. And so

1:02:01

well Firefox Yeah,

1:02:27

even the browser. I love the most which is

1:02:29

brave is a browser It is there. No one

1:02:32

would ever look at it and say what is

1:02:34

this thing? That it is

1:02:37

the playbook version of a browser now They've done

1:02:39

some things in the back and they really like

1:02:41

with regards to security and privacy and all that

1:02:43

and it's a little stripped Down there. There's no

1:02:45

future bloke going on there. I like that too.

1:02:47

But these are we're not talking about major user

1:02:49

experience Differences right day to day

1:02:51

stuff what arc is doing is Revolutionary

1:02:54

it doesn't mean it's gonna succeed right? It

1:02:57

doesn't mean that this is the future there There are some

1:02:59

questions by the way About its

1:03:01

latest things that stuff you were showing earlier

1:03:03

and how they bypass Google and bypass the

1:03:05

websites They create the content and just create

1:03:07

you know, give you yeah the answer like

1:03:09

the ethics of that Maybe is

1:03:11

the best way to put it or you know,

1:03:14

what does that do to content creators? And I

1:03:16

gotta tell you I'm not sure they have a

1:03:18

good answer to that question. So they may have

1:03:20

plans for I Don't

1:03:22

know it becomes a pay thing and

1:03:24

maybe there's a kickback to the content they're

1:03:26

taking or whatever I don't

1:03:29

know that but this is The

1:03:32

thing to keep in mind is that arc is

1:03:34

a company that's not much bigger than

1:03:36

the company I own So it's not on

1:03:38

the it's not it's not on

1:03:41

the same level as Google Microsoft, you know, Apple, right?

1:03:43

It's not even it's not it's not in the same

1:03:45

level fields epic games taking on Apple It's not in

1:03:47

the level field of Sonos taking on

1:03:49

Google. This is a this is a mom and

1:03:52

pop. So yeah We could we should still debate

1:03:54

the ethics of it We should still ask questions

1:03:56

and we should still wait and see what happens

1:03:58

here, but they are trying to

1:04:01

do something that I think

1:04:03

is amazing. I mean it's just

1:04:05

it is a thorough rethinking

1:04:08

of what this product is and what it means to

1:04:10

use it. I mean it's and

1:04:12

I'm sorry you know Firefox, Brave, Google,

1:04:15

whatever. I mean ultimately from a mile

1:04:17

high they're all exactly the same thing.

1:04:21

I wonder you were a big

1:04:23

Vivaldi fan. I mean Vivaldi is

1:04:25

highly customizable. Could it be made

1:04:27

to look like art? No

1:04:31

I wouldn't. No I don't

1:04:33

think it works the same way and I'm a

1:04:35

little off now with Vivaldi. It's kind of

1:04:37

been a while. Vivaldi is. In

1:04:39

my opinion. Yeah from day one.

1:04:42

Honestly the very first question they ask you is

1:04:44

do you want to have the browser? Do

1:04:46

you want to have the browser with the email and

1:04:48

the calendar and you like and right there you're like.

1:04:50

I just want a browser. I

1:04:53

mean it's like what are you doing? And

1:04:56

it's busy but obviously it speaks to a certain

1:04:58

audience. There are people who like to have all

1:05:00

the airplane you know the airline

1:05:02

carrier or the airplane cockpit

1:05:04

you know style thing but I

1:05:07

don't. I like minimalist things and whatever

1:05:09

but I think there's a barrier to

1:05:11

entry when it comes to art with regards to this

1:05:13

getting over that hump and then understanding what's

1:05:15

going on in the UI and that people will come back

1:05:18

on day two and their tabs are all gone and they're

1:05:20

like what's going on here. It's

1:05:22

confusing but it's confusing because

1:05:24

they didn't just do the same thing everyone else

1:05:26

is doing. They really. You

1:05:29

know like for example when Microsoft

1:05:31

made Windows phone 7. There

1:05:34

was actually a lot of innovation there from

1:05:36

a user experience standpoint and we

1:05:38

can you know the whole story about why this didn't work

1:05:40

and all that but this notion of we're not just going

1:05:42

to have like a grid of apps that whack a mole

1:05:45

UI that we still have right grid of icons on a

1:05:47

home screen. We're going to really think

1:05:49

through like what is it that people are trying to

1:05:51

do on their phone and how can we make that

1:05:53

easier and there was some real innovation there

1:05:55

and that failed horribly. Art

1:05:57

browser could fail in the same way but I. I

1:06:00

appreciate the attempt and I actually see

1:06:02

the, and you do too obviously, see

1:06:04

the benefits of it, right? You can

1:06:06

see what they did and you're like, you know what, this actually,

1:06:08

this changes

1:06:10

things. Like it's very interesting, I think.

1:06:12

No, I love it for

1:06:15

a lot of things. And it, by the way, fits

1:06:17

very well into the future

1:06:20

AI world. They're

1:06:22

smart to be using perplexity in

1:06:24

their search and so forth. I don't know

1:06:26

if you know enough about their histories, if

1:06:28

this was a plan or the way I

1:06:30

imagined it was one year, two years in

1:06:32

that this AI thing became obvious.

1:06:34

And they said, we got to pivot to this,

1:06:36

but whatever the reason they are

1:06:39

uniquely, not positioned,

1:06:42

but they've delivered a uniquely AI infused

1:06:44

product where everyone else is kind of

1:06:47

at like, it's kind of tacked

1:06:49

on in some way. So they have a traditional browser

1:06:51

and they're like, well, we'll do this thing too. So

1:06:53

like, for example, in Brave, you can, you

1:06:56

can treat, they have AI, I think, a Leo,

1:06:58

right? Which I'm sure you at least like on some level. And

1:07:01

Leo kicks in through when you type into the

1:07:03

address bar, right? If you ask, you can ask

1:07:05

questions that way. So it's like, we didn't really

1:07:08

rethink, well, I guess technically, Arc does something very

1:07:10

similar, but Arc doesn't even have an address bar.

1:07:12

You know, so. It's not completely surprising

1:07:14

because the people who started Arc came

1:07:17

from Tesla, came from

1:07:20

Instagram, Medium. A lot

1:07:22

of them came from Chrome, Amazon,

1:07:24

Snap, Slack, Pinterest. They've

1:07:27

all been around. It's like a bouillabaisse

1:07:30

of talent, but also a,

1:07:32

you know, like the people who might've came from Chrome or some

1:07:35

other browser company, right? Remember when

1:07:37

Safari started, you might remember Stan, there

1:07:39

was a guy who was very famous

1:07:41

and highly placed at Mozilla who left

1:07:44

to go to Apple. And at the time, it was

1:07:46

like, what's going on here? And it's because

1:07:48

they created Safari. Yeah. But

1:07:50

you might have these people in these companies who

1:07:52

are like, you know, I

1:07:55

have ideas and no one's interested. And the

1:07:57

reason is we're all really comfortable with what

1:07:59

browsers are. And maybe you put

1:08:01

a bunch of those people in a room together and you

1:08:03

come out with something, you know, doesn't always work, right? But

1:08:05

I feel like, anyway, I love that

1:08:07

they're doing it. It's very interesting. And

1:08:09

so it's a somewhat quixotic venture because

1:08:13

they have no revenue model. Well, that's

1:08:15

what I'm saying. We actually don't know. They've raised

1:08:17

money and their privacy policy… It's the change bank

1:08:19

joke, right? Yeah, they're not so funny. How are

1:08:22

you going to make money, volume, you know? Yeah.

1:08:24

I don't really know what the plan is.

1:08:27

I think they want to do an enterprise

1:08:29

thing. And they think that's how they're going

1:08:31

to make money. So that worked great

1:08:33

for this, Kate. So I

1:08:36

look at Dr. Eko and I wanted the same thing, right? So

1:08:39

I keep looking at this browser and I think to myself,

1:08:41

there's some basic features it doesn't have. You

1:08:44

can't even pin tabs, right? It doesn't have extensions,

1:08:46

you know? So it's kind of a non-starter for

1:08:48

a user, but I kind of like the whole…

1:08:50

I like the company. I like their whole thing.

1:08:52

But how do you

1:08:55

make money? You know? You look at Brave, same

1:08:57

thing. It's like, what are you doing? Or

1:08:59

you look at Mozilla now, like actually, this comes up at the end of the show,

1:09:02

but Mozilla has had the branch out into other products,

1:09:04

a lot of which are free and paid versions, right?

1:09:06

They're trying to make money. They're trying to do that

1:09:09

in the browser space. They're trying to stay alive, you

1:09:11

know? And, you

1:09:13

know, of course, we can't begrudge them that,

1:09:15

but… And you write articles about

1:09:17

this stuff and then people are like, I'm never going to

1:09:19

pay anyone five dollars. And it's like, oh, there you go.

1:09:21

Well, you're contributing too then. What, are you like kicking the

1:09:23

corpse in the way of mine? Like, I

1:09:25

get it, but like… I have

1:09:28

become… obviously, my attitude has changed a lot. You've

1:09:31

had a throughout premium for a long time.

1:09:34

And you do it exactly the right way, which is you have a paid…

1:09:37

You have mostly free content, and

1:09:39

then you put some really good premium content behind

1:09:42

a paywall. I'm thinking about it because

1:09:44

I just renewed for another

1:09:46

year, and it's worth it. And

1:09:49

we're trying to do something similar. I

1:09:52

can't take credit for that, by the way. That was other people. That

1:09:54

was Penton. And I fought… well, no, this

1:09:56

was at the previous company, BWW. A

1:09:59

small team, a small group of people. people, other

1:10:01

people came up with this idea, I thought it, you

1:10:03

know, I want my content to be free and out

1:10:05

there, you know, like in an idealistic way. Yeah. So

1:10:08

do I. And I'm not comfortable asking

1:10:10

people for money, you know, I'm

1:10:13

not comfortable raising prices on anything. You

1:10:15

and I are exactly cut

1:10:17

for the same quality. I'm just a, I'm

1:10:20

an artist. We have to pay rent, right? I

1:10:23

mean, there is a reason, there is, you know,

1:10:26

and that's the thing, I become more and more aware of,

1:10:29

I mean, financial mortality approaches, you

1:10:31

realize I have to do something here.

1:10:33

But journalism is collapsing. It's not just

1:10:36

me. I mean, it's everywhere. It's

1:10:38

terrifying. It is terrifying.

1:10:40

And I, and I want to, I think what

1:10:42

I kind of want people to understand is you,

1:10:46

there was a false promise at the beginning of the

1:10:48

internet that you could do this for free. Yeah, that's

1:10:50

right. And, and it's coming to you. This

1:10:53

is, I mean, look, we can pretend this

1:10:55

is a certification. I would just say this is

1:10:57

inevitable. We cheer

1:11:00

the notion of the democratization

1:11:02

of maybe publishing or music

1:11:04

creation or whatever it might

1:11:06

be. And what we don't really think

1:11:08

through ever is the

1:11:11

ramifications and what happens on the

1:11:13

other side of this, you know, like we, like on

1:11:15

the one hand, it's like, it's really neat that anyone

1:11:17

can have a platform. And

1:11:19

on the other hand, it's terrifying that everyone

1:11:21

has a platform because most people's ideas are

1:11:24

tied. You know, most

1:11:26

people are horrible and I, and

1:11:28

I don't know that I want to hear

1:11:30

from these people. So for example, like a

1:11:32

real world example of that is I use

1:11:34

the Google newsfeed specifically news app specifically

1:11:37

for their, the tech feed. I read it every

1:11:39

morning and it's just, I've been meaning to

1:11:41

write about this. I've started taking pictures of it. So

1:11:44

in my newsfeed, there'll be like the Burj and

1:11:46

gadget and gizmodo and these kind of top level

1:11:48

tech crunch. Are you taking the Google news app?

1:11:51

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I

1:11:54

read it every day. I checked it. So here's

1:11:56

what the first bit of lack

1:11:58

of sophistication in this app. is the

1:12:01

Virgin and Gadget and Gizmodo all have

1:12:04

branched out into other things. They write about

1:12:06

things that are sort of technology like cars

1:12:08

or space or whatever it is. It

1:12:10

was, uh, there's a story in the news feed this

1:12:12

morning from the Virgin about a Lego set. Yeah.

1:12:15

They write about board games. They write about

1:12:17

just normal things. In my

1:12:19

own world, I, in part of Threat Premium, like one of

1:12:21

the things I do is similar to

1:12:24

that in the sense that it's not really necessarily about

1:12:26

tech, but I might write about more personal things and

1:12:28

whatever. And the thing is, that's

1:12:30

fine. I don't want to expect

1:12:32

to see that in a news feed that's

1:12:34

specifically about tech. Right. Right. Like, and

1:12:38

that's, so that's one thing that's, that

1:12:40

to me is a problem. I don't

1:12:42

like it. There are articles about bicycles,

1:12:45

motorcycles, skiing. It

1:12:47

has nothing to do with tech, but it's almost like

1:12:49

someone was like, well, you know, they mentioned an iPad

1:12:51

app or something. Who knows? It's,

1:12:53

it's really unsophisticated, but that's not the problem.

1:12:56

The problem actually is AI, because

1:12:58

the thing that has been taking over my newsfeed, as I sit

1:13:00

there every day and try to curate it, I don't want to

1:13:02

see stuff from here. I don't want to see stuff from here.

1:13:05

There's an infinite number of

1:13:07

URLs that are some random

1:13:09

combination of letters and numbers.com or

1:13:12

some random combination of letters and numbers dot

1:13:14

something dot random, you know, it goes on

1:13:17

and on. And it will be like, it

1:13:19

will say, I'm not going to make this up. It's not

1:13:21

an actual URL, but it will be like stateside.seven.com. And

1:13:24

it's a news, it is the tech story, but it

1:13:26

was either regurgitated with AI, or

1:13:28

just copied wholesale from some other

1:13:30

actual blogger. Yeah, they are. This

1:13:32

is a cancer that is eating

1:13:35

my, my tech news. Yes. And the

1:13:37

fact that Google can't or

1:13:39

won't do anything about that is

1:13:41

terrifying. And the fact that

1:13:43

I found a, a newsfeed called artifact

1:13:46

by the guys from Instagram that actually worked really

1:13:48

well at this and is now going away at

1:13:50

the end of the month is

1:13:52

even more terrifying. Yeah. Artifacts going out of

1:13:54

business. Yeah. Give us a huge, huge

1:13:57

problem. Huge problem. So.

1:14:00

I this is it in certification. Yes one

1:14:03

level of course it is but it's

1:14:05

not just that right? We need a new crazy

1:14:07

AR for occasion. Yeah, the

1:14:11

AI fornication Because

1:14:14

because I mean AI is flooding

1:14:16

the zone now Yeah,

1:14:19

and it's only gonna get worse and this

1:14:21

is we can talk about regulations

1:14:23

and everything But honestly, I don't

1:14:25

understand this is from a pure business model

1:14:27

perspective How Google I just single

1:14:30

them out doesn't want to put a

1:14:32

stop this this is this undermines

1:14:34

their credibility as

1:14:36

a source of information and That

1:14:39

to me is there and is really the foundation

1:14:41

of their business I know

1:14:43

they make the money from the ads but those

1:14:45

ads become less valuable if the

1:14:47

Content that's around them is

1:14:50

garbage and people that's true. It's

1:14:52

right emptying And I don't know if I

1:14:54

doubt this is true, but it's tempting to say this

1:14:57

is Google's revenge Against all the

1:14:59

news entities that said well you have to pay us

1:15:02

for my god. So if you haven't seen this,

1:15:04

this is amazing. I there

1:15:06

is a Couple things

1:15:08

here. So there's an editorial in the Washington Post

1:15:11

this week about the real danger

1:15:13

to news is AI Okay, obvious enough.

1:15:15

Yeah. Well, that's my question post. Thanks

1:15:17

for sure. I Scrolled

1:15:19

by this thing and I said now Like

1:15:22

I know what they think but then I thought to myself. Oh The

1:15:25

little tech reporter guys Jeffrey power whoever

1:15:27

the other people are yeah They

1:15:30

have been on a mom-and-pop crusade

1:15:32

against digital photography AI Ever

1:15:35

since Google came out with a picture like they

1:15:37

can't stop writing about it Like it makes them

1:15:39

saying interesting they never reviewed the pixelate all they

1:15:41

did was write five articles about how terrible this

1:15:43

is Oh, well, that's sort of understanding that since

1:15:46

photography has existed and is in fact an

1:15:48

artificially created rendition of reality That we

1:15:50

have been editing those images ever since

1:15:53

they existed is I think

1:15:55

a fact that needs to kind of factor

1:15:57

into this discussion that this nuances lost on

1:15:59

these people So I'm

1:16:02

like, okay, you know what? I got to go back

1:16:04

and look at this. So I have my aggravation with

1:16:06

them about the photography AI stuff. All

1:16:09

right, screw it. I'm going to read this thing. So

1:16:11

I'm reading it. I'm reading it and I'm thinking to myself, I'm

1:16:13

like, hold on, what is this? The person who wrote it, led

1:16:16

Google's news organization

1:16:19

for like seven or eight years. He

1:16:21

was the guy Richard Gail was forced

1:16:23

to. Yeah, look, it's crazy. Oh, interesting.

1:16:25

So it's an iPad then. It's

1:16:28

not a... Yeah, yeah, no, it's not a news story. It's

1:16:32

actually rather astonishing to see his side

1:16:34

of the story I just told, the

1:16:36

story you mentioned, which is that Google

1:16:38

uses screen scrape everybody, put those results

1:16:40

in search results. People freaked

1:16:42

out, started suing them. Regulatory bodies started

1:16:45

waking up and they said, okay, okay.

1:16:47

And they spent six, seven years coming

1:16:49

to individual deals with publishers in every

1:16:52

country on earth. It was a

1:16:54

period of time where almost every day

1:16:56

there was a Google announces the published

1:16:58

partnership with some public news organization in

1:17:00

Australia, New Zealand, South Africa. It was

1:17:02

every day. Now it's everybody. I'm like

1:17:04

wondering where my deal is, by the

1:17:06

way. And now,

1:17:09

but his perspective on that is fascinating

1:17:12

because he saw this as just a money

1:17:14

grab. But what he's saying

1:17:16

is that this AI thing is like

1:17:19

that exponential, that the danger like

1:17:21

he would hit from his perspective, at

1:17:24

least we were driving traffic to you. That's

1:17:27

kind of what he's saying. He's like, look, I may

1:17:29

have stabbed you with a knife, but I didn't kill

1:17:32

you. AI is going to make your body unrecognizable. So

1:17:35

yeah, I guess that's worse. You

1:17:38

look a little less terrible by comparison, but

1:17:40

you weren't as sophisticated back then either, right?

1:17:42

You would be doing this right now if you would have invented

1:17:45

it. It's

1:17:48

a very hypocritical, it's

1:17:50

worth reading with the understanding

1:17:52

of who he is and what he did. And

1:17:55

then read his take. You

1:17:58

know, it'd be like a Nazi coming, like, yeah, we killed a few. people

1:18:00

because we were trying to advance science over here. It's like

1:18:02

dude that is not what you were doing. You

1:18:04

know like I got to

1:18:07

get Jeff Jarvis on this one because he's

1:18:09

friends with Richard. Very

1:18:11

interesting. I will ask Jeff about this

1:18:14

later today actually. Now we're going to clear the

1:18:17

air here. You need a breather Paul. You've been

1:18:19

ranting and raving and I think it's a good

1:18:21

idea just to take a break and talk a

1:18:23

little bit about clip champ. What's

1:18:25

your special place? I

1:18:28

had actually noticed at least one of these features before

1:18:30

they announced it and I was like oh I don't

1:18:32

recall this being a thing but the other day the

1:18:35

clip champ team who was now blogging

1:18:38

at the Microsoft 365 blog announced

1:18:41

two new features that are related to audio and then

1:18:43

the third one is coming later this month right. So

1:18:45

the first one is just audio recording and it's a

1:18:47

way to you've made a video of whatever kind of

1:18:49

feature you want to do. Now you want to do

1:18:52

a voice over that let you record for up to

1:18:54

30 minutes. It's a

1:18:56

neat feature and by the way in the screen

1:18:58

shot you can kind of see this a little bit.

1:19:00

It says coach on over there in the corner. There's

1:19:02

actually an optional feature called coach and you put it

1:19:04

on you do your voice over and it gives you

1:19:06

feedback afterwards where it says you know you said

1:19:08

oh my lot you did that you know it's

1:19:11

really again free web

1:19:14

app astonishing right. It's kind of it's

1:19:16

kind of cool. Clip

1:19:18

champ has also had a text

1:19:20

to speech feature for a while but

1:19:23

now it supports a new track

1:19:25

in the you know in the editing track or whatever

1:19:28

where you can change where that text

1:19:31

to speech item is in

1:19:33

the timeline and you can change

1:19:35

the language it speaks the voice it

1:19:38

uses the emotion wow to the voice

1:19:40

the pace you can

1:19:42

edit more of that. I hate

1:19:44

her so much. I

1:19:46

am I am blown away by some of the

1:19:48

stuff it is nice. It's

1:19:50

very interesting. So and then

1:19:53

there's a third feature that's coming later. This

1:19:55

one will actually only be available in the

1:19:57

premium subscription but for now You

1:20:00

can test it for free. So while it's in preview

1:20:02

anyone could actually do this and what

1:20:04

it will do is it uses AI To examine

1:20:06

your video and then it will

1:20:09

remove long periods of silence Either

1:20:11

automatically you can just say yep Do it all or you

1:20:14

can go one by one and kind of see what the

1:20:16

change would look and sound like So in

1:20:18

other words, you've created some kind of a video. It's

1:20:20

a finished product, right? But you know, you have dead

1:20:22

periods, right? Look

1:20:25

we're getting this is the this is the conversation

1:20:28

we just had about some price, right? the

1:20:31

video production used to be so prohibitively

1:20:34

Difficult and expensive that it

1:20:37

was only left to professionals and

1:20:39

then we've had you know Like iMovie and movie maker

1:20:41

and you know thing. It's kind of democratized but now

1:20:43

with the addition of AI You

1:20:46

and of course advanced capabilities. We see iPhones

1:20:48

and the incredible video quality they have there

1:20:51

and any individual This

1:20:53

is the democratization of video

1:20:55

creation and editing. It's incredible. It is

1:20:57

kind of anything Yeah, you

1:20:59

know having when I was in the early 90s I

1:21:03

worked in the TV used to do a

1:21:05

regular weekly edited

1:21:07

piece and Spent hours, you

1:21:10

know sitting in the edit suite with the

1:21:12

editor going up with it And it was

1:21:14

so painful and I remember thinking at that

1:21:16

time Even though

1:21:19

the companies are pushing you might want to do your

1:21:21

own editing This is back in the days of Windows

1:21:23

movie maker and stuff Yeah, I thought

1:21:25

no one's ever gonna want to sit in this

1:21:27

hell Frank it was always the

1:21:29

bridge too far You know so

1:21:31

much work it did catch on

1:21:33

thanks to you know, good better tools and

1:21:35

so forth But it's always so hard.

1:21:38

I mean it's yeah, it's the heart I I Don't

1:21:41

remember it was right up. So we're probably 20 21 22, maybe I

1:21:46

was looking at updating the Windows 11 book and I was

1:21:48

thinking you know, one thing to be kind of cool

1:21:50

Is if I could do video Explanations

1:21:52

of these things little video like little clips, you

1:21:55

know Yeah, and and I could put they could

1:21:57

be in the book because it's a digital doc, but who cares and

1:21:59

then you click on the video if you're online you can see

1:22:01

the video and maybe that would be a way that some instead

1:22:03

of reading the book people could say I want to see how

1:22:05

to do this one thing go into the video and

1:22:08

then I looked at like what that would take and

1:22:10

I got really I mean I don't mean to say depressed

1:22:12

but it was like I I had this idea and I

1:22:15

was like I just wouldn't it be cool but you just

1:22:17

can't that's why well I think but that's I have but

1:22:19

your wife called me and said hey do you want to

1:22:21

do this video for it you know the thing and I

1:22:23

was like oh yeah there you go but

1:22:26

that's why but that's also why we're in

1:22:28

financial straights because I didn't

1:22:30

you know I was never gonna do that but

1:22:33

I wanted that and and

1:22:36

so we have a lot of editors and stuff and we have

1:22:38

a great editor for this show Kevin King and

1:22:40

they're good they're really good I look at my

1:22:42

son Henry who's become a tick-tock

1:22:45

Instagram chef and

1:22:47

star his skill it's

1:22:50

cooking but this real skill is the editing of

1:22:52

the videos he makes and he

1:22:54

literally spends all day doing this

1:22:57

stuff I just described and any video related

1:22:59

AI wonder that will is there or will

1:23:02

be there in the future is doesn't

1:23:04

necessarily mean that you

1:23:07

or I are gonna make a windows by

1:23:09

ourselves that's not what this means yeah but

1:23:11

what it does mean is that for people

1:23:13

like Kevin right or I mean it to

1:23:15

or anyone else that this becomes

1:23:18

easier and they can focus on you

1:23:21

know the more important things rather than the rigmarole

1:23:23

yeah how horrible is it to go

1:23:25

through a video of whatever like this show is two

1:23:27

three hours long I make these goofy little videos of

1:23:30

my wife that are ten minutes long but whatever you

1:23:32

have video you did audio

1:23:34

you have to you can't skip over sections

1:23:37

of it you have to go through this

1:23:39

whole damn thing yeah it's it's hard and

1:23:41

I'm consuming so these but

1:23:43

these things I these are advances like

1:23:45

this is this is quality of life

1:23:47

stuff for people like Kevin yeah

1:23:49

it really is yeah I think Anthony Nielsen

1:23:52

who is kind of our kind

1:23:55

of lead and creative guy is using more

1:23:57

and more AI and in fact we're using

1:23:59

using AI now, you probably

1:24:01

get these every week after the show, we send you

1:24:04

clips. We're using AI to generate

1:24:06

those clips. We obviously go through it afterwards. Yeah.

1:24:08

These are the ones where they kind of does

1:24:10

the words and then it has all the data.

1:24:13

Yeah, that's all AI generated. Right. It's great. Thanks to

1:24:15

Anthony for figuring that all out. And it's really great.

1:24:19

How hard would that be to do manually? Think about

1:24:21

it. Oh, God, no. It's

1:24:24

hard to even. I think this is the conceptual

1:24:26

hump a lot of people need to get over

1:24:28

because I will say as a writer, I look

1:24:31

at the stuff that AI is going to kind of

1:24:33

take away and on, you know, from one perspective, I

1:24:35

get worried about it. But then I look at how

1:24:39

it actually works in word, let's say, or whatever might be,

1:24:41

or even something as simple as a Grammarly

1:24:43

app. I'm using a

1:24:45

Markdown text editor and I can

1:24:47

still use an AI service to

1:24:50

check my grammar, check my spelling.

1:24:52

I mean, this stuff is transformative,

1:24:54

right? I mean, it doesn't

1:24:57

mean that I necessarily go away, although I will

1:24:59

eventually obviously, but I mean, it doesn't mean like

1:25:01

I lose my job today or whatever. But although

1:25:04

that AI crap I was talking about Google News

1:25:06

is not helping. This

1:25:09

is such a great conversation because at

1:25:11

the very same time, as we're saying

1:25:13

how awful AI is, we're saying how

1:25:15

great it is. Yes.

1:25:17

But this is honestly,

1:25:21

if I could leave this earth and deliver one message

1:25:23

that people would actually kind of listen to, it is

1:25:26

that everything is nuanced. There's no such thing as black

1:25:28

and white. There's bad in everything.

1:25:31

And the biggest mistake you can make is

1:25:33

to be as far on one fridge as

1:25:35

you could possibly be. Because as soon

1:25:38

as you start listening or

1:25:40

stop paying attention to the

1:25:43

gray, you're lost. You

1:25:45

know, as a human being, you're just lost.

1:25:47

Yeah, because nothing is black or white. It

1:25:49

really isn't. No, nothing is. Nothing. In

1:25:52

fact, I had

1:25:54

an epiphany not so long ago that really the key

1:25:57

to understanding life is to be able to

1:25:59

hold parents. Paradoxes in your head. Yeah.

1:26:02

Yes. Oh, here's the simple paradox of people have

1:26:04

trouble with because I get I could

1:26:06

I Should write a

1:26:08

book. It would be called but you said This

1:26:13

is my bet looks like if I if I'm ever

1:26:15

confronted by the same like the one phrase the most

1:26:18

It's but but you said because people hold on to

1:26:20

things I didn't say in the spur of the moment

1:26:22

more than I ever could I can't have I don't

1:26:24

have a memory for things I spent hours writing so

1:26:28

there is no mutual exclusivity or paradox So

1:26:30

the fact that say something you could make

1:26:32

two sides of anything You could say Google

1:26:34

has the best search engine on earth and

1:26:37

Google is a terrible company That is stealing jobs

1:26:39

and stealing content for people right those two things

1:26:41

can be they can both be true, right? And

1:26:43

I I think people have a hard time with

1:26:45

that. That's you know, the I think When

1:26:48

I was doing that Amazon survey,

1:26:50

it was like, yeah, they're horrible

1:26:52

and yeah, I love it It's

1:26:55

funny. They're like, oh, hold on a second. I have

1:26:57

to get a package. Oh, it's coming tomorrow. Perfect. All

1:26:59

right What were we saying? Oh, you're horrible Right.

1:27:03

There's I mean look that's I mean, honestly, that's

1:27:05

what a world something hypocritical there too But well,

1:27:07

we all do but we all do that. We

1:27:09

all do I Divor I

1:27:11

just got I would often you start happened.

1:27:13

We got next day packages delivered here. I

1:27:16

just said Mexico Just what is this world?

1:27:18

We live in? It's amazing.

1:27:20

That's crazy I

1:27:23

used to say but you said to John C. Dvorak

1:27:25

a lot and he would always come

1:27:27

back. He said well Thoreau said Foolish

1:27:29

consistency is the hobgoblin of little

1:27:32

minds. I Love

1:27:35

it. And which is it honestly a way to

1:27:37

say I guess if you want to be pedantic

1:27:39

and never learn and then change your Exactly, then

1:27:41

I guess you could be that person. Yes But

1:27:44

don't be that person don't be that person and I

1:27:47

learned from you. Yep All

1:27:49

right, let all learn yes something

1:27:53

Let us take a little tiny break and I

1:27:56

am still waiting you think Richard was let's check the

1:27:58

rich report I think in the next 10 minutes We're

1:28:00

gonna get he's gonna appear like a genie

1:28:02

out of a bottle Listen,

1:28:06

you know how we've been doing this for what

1:28:08

15 18 whatever number years, you know how dedicated

1:28:11

I am to this I think you know that

1:28:13

I literally booked every trip I take around the

1:28:15

show to make sure I don't miss this right?

1:28:18

I'm dedicated. Let me tell you something if I

1:28:20

had to fall Home from

1:28:22

Europe be home for a day and then fly to New Zealand and

1:28:24

I got in late and I had to drive Two and a power

1:28:26

guess what I wouldn't be doing right now This

1:28:28

show I'm sorry like no offense, but like

1:28:31

that's maybe where I draw the line I

1:28:33

think that's and Richard is he's dedicated in

1:28:35

a way that maybe as an energy level

1:28:37

I don't have I don't know but I'm

1:28:39

gonna correct myself. It is Ralph Waldo Emerson

1:28:41

who said a Foolish

1:28:44

consistency is the hobgoblin the little

1:28:46

minds adored by little

1:28:48

statesman and philosophers and

1:28:51

divines This is the people who

1:28:53

refuse to change their opinions when

1:28:55

confronted by evidence to the contrary.

1:28:57

That's right, right They're consistent,

1:28:59

but they're also fully consistently stupid

1:29:04

Alright more to come you're

1:29:06

watching and listening to

1:29:08

Windows Weekly Paul Theron Richard Campbell on

1:29:10

the road But soon here since

1:29:12

our founding in 2000 we at

1:29:15

the Center for Internet Security have always

1:29:17

had one mission It's to create confidence

1:29:19

in the connected world for people businesses

1:29:21

and governments as a nonprofit

1:29:23

We do this by drawing upon our

1:29:26

core competencies of collaboration and innovation The

1:29:29

world is changing Cyber threats

1:29:31

are evolving and IP resources are limited

1:29:33

All you want is a way to

1:29:35

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1:29:37

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1:29:39

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strive to help organizations of every size

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and maturity strengthen their cyber security This

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1:30:06

At CIS, we're all about making the

1:30:08

connected world a safer place. Visit

1:30:11

our website to learn more. And

1:30:13

we move on now to our

1:30:15

AI segment. Wait a minute.

1:30:17

I know, I know, I know. Wait

1:30:20

a minute. Look, look, here's the thing.

1:30:22

So it was a period of time last year,

1:30:24

probably don't remember it, it came and went in

1:30:26

the flash. But we talked

1:30:28

a lot about Activision Blizzard. Oh yeah, that. And that

1:30:30

was a, look, and it will come up again, in

1:30:32

fact, it will come up today. But

1:30:35

not to that degree, right? I mean, at some

1:30:37

point, you know, Activision Blizzard is integrated into Microsoft

1:30:39

and you know, whatever happens. AI

1:30:42

is a little different. This

1:30:45

may be so big that there

1:30:47

will be a point in time where people who

1:30:49

like don't today remember that Apple was once called

1:30:51

Apple Computer, by the way, because that's all they

1:30:53

made. And now it's not that

1:30:56

is a gigantic, much, much bigger company that makes

1:30:58

all kinds of different things that

1:31:00

Microsoft might be best known as being

1:31:02

like the Copilot company, not the Windows

1:31:04

company or whatever people still think about.

1:31:07

Wouldn't that be interesting? Yeah, I I'm

1:31:09

that's really interesting. There's a, the

1:31:12

Windows thing is already a little past

1:31:14

its prime in the sense that Microsoft's

1:31:16

cloud based businesses outstrip Windows

1:31:19

by a factor of whatever, five, 10,

1:31:21

20, I don't know, doesn't really matter.

1:31:24

The thing that people like me can take a

1:31:27

little bit solace in is that that cloud computing

1:31:29

infrastructure is all built on Windows

1:31:31

guys. Hyper-V, it's, you know, this is all Windows

1:31:33

technology. So that's nice. That's nice for me. It's

1:31:36

like, people are excited that Linux is in, Linux is

1:31:38

in Android. It's like, see Linux one, it's like, I

1:31:41

mean, I see what you're saying, but not exactly. Right.

1:31:45

But Copilot, you know,

1:31:47

it's Microsoft for years, Bill

1:31:49

Gates, especially, just would always talk about betting

1:31:51

the company. And he'd be like, yeah,

1:31:54

we're coming out with a clippy profits. We're running

1:31:56

the company. No, you're not. You're not. You're

1:31:58

not doing that. That's not true. That type of

1:32:00

all your or is your use talk. Microsoft

1:32:03

has never. I don't think explicitly said we're betting

1:32:05

the company on it. But here's the thing. You.

1:32:08

Can see by with that. Not like they

1:32:10

say that doesn't mean so much for what

1:32:12

they do in the money to spend their

1:32:14

bedding the company on this there is no

1:32:16

doubt about it must not have Microsoft would

1:32:18

not exist, it's the it would still continue

1:32:20

forward as some kind of a giant oracle

1:32:22

type terrible company. know be care as much

1:32:24

but they wouldn't be the number one or

1:32:26

two biggest company in the world and they

1:32:28

wouldn't be on everyone's mind and was resting.

1:32:30

You know, yeah because ah. The.

1:32:33

Making the right choice of sank met a

1:32:35

bad thing happening ncr and as now regretting

1:32:37

yes Wincing Apple is it a little A

1:32:39

to the party Still thinks Vr is gonna

1:32:42

be rich. it is setting up as we

1:32:44

speak. I love Richard! Are

1:32:46

so. I. Would never do what he's

1:32:48

done and continue on ball while he's not

1:32:50

here and so check yesterday or to. I

1:32:52

guess it was the one year anniversary. And

1:32:55

said the comes to this, whatever what were roughly

1:32:57

the one year anniversary. Of the day that

1:33:00

you submit a step down and station talked about with

1:33:02

the time was. Being. Shot so that

1:33:04

we can all agree with. but it's a

1:33:06

stupid as you know name and were and

1:33:08

market for whatever. But anyway they prep they

1:33:10

course for acted on. That's where we are.

1:33:12

Trauma where there was a lot of promise,

1:33:14

a lot of announcement, But. They're I've

1:33:17

also been a lot of actual product releases

1:33:19

and maybe more important, A. Lot of

1:33:21

product updates right all along the

1:33:23

way. The core capabilities of Microsoft Copilot

1:33:25

have advanced again and again and again.

1:33:28

They've shipped actual shipping subscription service. Frankly

1:33:30

got a Copilot pro and co

1:33:32

pilot Microsoft Three Six, Five Hundred and

1:33:34

be many more to come. Dynamics said

1:33:37

are all over the place. They.

1:33:41

Have their own little milestones they talk about.

1:33:43

you know, five billion shots. I billion

1:33:45

images created. And will

1:33:47

put the snare quotes because it's nonsense, but sustained

1:33:49

growth and being an edge. Share.

1:33:51

Not really right and be not really, but okay.

1:33:55

But. The fact the matter is. They.

1:33:57

Created. Something.

1:34:00

Dr. Seuss I mean it's gonna wade

1:34:02

said feel sustain of like it feels

1:34:04

real and as a more and more

1:34:06

competitors arrive as they were did that

1:34:08

the don't the open A as the

1:34:10

road Google of course right Amazon, eventually

1:34:12

Apple. Eventually with these people these companies

1:34:14

are going to steal share to some

1:34:16

degree but Microsoft historic. Advantages

1:34:19

first with office productivity software which

1:34:21

they turn success when services and

1:34:23

then with cloud computing I think

1:34:25

gives them an edge. Data.

1:34:28

For in the pants that their

1:34:30

competitors just can't duplicate this, You

1:34:32

know it. It's rather astonishing. Com

1:34:35

and so you know this past year as been

1:34:37

a of in. It. Is

1:34:39

a I hadn't happened. They keep saying this like

1:34:42

it the I would have done him an end

1:34:44

of year recap. Robot have talked about all these

1:34:46

things big and small that were big deal with

1:34:48

Activision Blizzard Sixty Eight Sixty Eight Sixty Nine Billion

1:34:50

Dollars. Whatever was. Big. Deal rights as

1:34:52

a lot, a little stories, lots of

1:34:54

seems, lots of kind of interesting stuff.

1:34:57

That. Occurs in any given year A guest. On

1:34:59

the last year it was a I just blew it

1:35:01

all away. It was like a I and than is

1:35:03

a little one pixel size thing on the corner for

1:35:06

the rest of Etti. Really doesn't matter so. I'm.

1:35:09

A I is everything A I as the yeah.

1:35:12

It's a I have some. I

1:35:16

was before sunrise Microsoft for it's it's

1:35:18

the way They continue the momentum that

1:35:20

they got with Wall Street from cloud

1:35:22

computing. It's. The way they just became the

1:35:24

biggest company in the world. With. A treat

1:35:26

or three trillion dollar market Cap Lesnar frequent to

1:35:28

I think of is now whatever. It's.

1:35:32

Is dishonest? It is only thing, isn't

1:35:34

it? Yeah. Really is a Superbowl ad

1:35:36

says they're putting out as I dunno that's how

1:35:38

you know his real They're going to Superbowl ad

1:35:40

well as i that they have different enough money

1:35:42

at a either. Gonna do this now. And

1:35:45

then they've also announced some updates which you

1:35:47

know, I probably can access to them in

1:35:49

Mexico. So there's a Copilot app store coming

1:35:51

to the stem on apps ios and Android.

1:35:54

A. major you accept a upgrade which i can see

1:35:56

and you can see now to get a copilot alex

1:36:00

Kind of streamline the UI nicer. Inline

1:36:02

image editing, meaning the way these things work

1:36:04

today is if you use Copilot's generated image

1:36:07

and you look at the image, it kind of pushes you off

1:36:09

to designer, what used to be called Bing

1:36:12

image creator. Now you can do it right there

1:36:14

in the chat interface and you can change the

1:36:16

image, tell it to take the tree out or

1:36:18

add the thing or whatever is make it a

1:36:20

different aspect ratio, whatever. Although actually you have to

1:36:22

pay for that. And then, yeah, that

1:36:24

feature I just mentioned is a new

1:36:27

feature of Copilot Pro. So when Copilot

1:36:29

Pro first launched last month, not

1:36:33

just the default, I believe the only thing you can

1:36:35

do is make landscape 16 by nine images, whereas before

1:36:37

remember they were square on the

1:36:39

free version. Now in Copilot Pro, you'll

1:36:41

be able to switch between those kinds of things. So

1:36:44

I think that's kind of cool. This

1:36:46

one I don't quite understand, but the new image

1:36:49

creator that used to be part of Bing is

1:36:52

now Microsoft Designer. And Microsoft Designer is a sort

1:36:54

of Adobe Express competitor,

1:36:56

Canva competitor, if

1:36:58

that makes sense. You go there, you're a small business owner, you make

1:37:00

flyers and logos and whatever. They

1:37:04

pulled the AI image, the chat

1:37:06

GPT for whatever, sorry, dolly three

1:37:08

image creation capabilities out

1:37:11

of, well, it's not out of Bing, but

1:37:13

it's now technically part of this designer product.

1:37:15

So you can go, you can, I think

1:37:17

it's probably designer.microsoft.com, whatever. It's a PWA,

1:37:19

you can install it, blah, blah, blah. But

1:37:21

they're going to introduce something called the

1:37:24

designer GPT inside Copilot soon.

1:37:28

And this is, I'm trying to understand what this

1:37:30

means. It just says, it's an immersive dedicated canvas

1:37:33

inside of Copilot. So wherever you

1:37:35

get your Copilot, where

1:37:37

you can visualize your ideas. And I guess,

1:37:39

I guess it just means, I

1:37:41

think it just means you'll be doing that designer

1:37:44

thing inside of Copilot. I guess it's like a,

1:37:46

essentially a plugin so that

1:37:48

you don't have to leave the environment, I guess is probably

1:37:50

what, that's my guess. So, figure

1:37:53

for AI. So

1:37:56

what is, have you seen the Super Bowl ad or? I

1:37:59

haven't. I

1:38:02

think I actually I actually like footballs, right?

1:38:04

So the Super Bowl to me I Feel

1:38:08

like the ad quality has been either declining or

1:38:10

we're just so used to it. It's not as

1:38:13

interesting anymore But I do

1:38:15

I do watch the game to see both things right

1:38:17

and then this year at least you can I mean

1:38:19

I know you think San Francisco is gonna win I

1:38:21

agree with you, but at least it's two of the

1:38:23

best teams in the league. It isn't always no It's

1:38:25

gonna there are many examples of a horrible team getting

1:38:27

in it like nine and seven or whatever like winning

1:38:29

the Super Bowl Somehow and it's like this is the

1:38:31

problem with one game playoffs, but okay, whatever You don't

1:38:34

when I hear to talk about football, but football the

1:38:36

Super Bowl is football and this stuff, you know So

1:38:38

I'm just I'm just saving it for then. I just

1:38:40

want I'll just enjoy it. Well, I won't show it

1:38:43

Well, you know if you want to close your eyes

1:38:46

Okay, it's okay. No, I don't know. Well, they take it down if

1:38:48

I show it. I don't even know It's

1:38:51

an advertisement. You're advertising a micro your act if

1:38:53

anything you're selling out. I feel like that's the

1:38:55

case, but These

1:38:58

guys they're so funny on on

1:39:01

the old YouTube. All right. Well, let

1:39:03

me I'll just play a little bit of it How about

1:39:05

yeah, all right That is Chicago.

1:39:07

Is that a Detroit Lions thing in the middle? What's going on

1:39:09

here? I'm

1:39:13

not kidding the audio That's

1:39:15

probably good. They won't take us down. But this is

1:39:17

this is gonna be a Super Bowl. I

1:39:19

think it's intriguing I've

1:39:22

never seen it work that fast by the way I

1:39:24

just cutting that part out. Yeah,

1:39:28

I think they probably to

1:39:30

me what this is saying is AI

1:39:34

is ready for the people

1:39:36

right and they Yeah, think

1:39:39

think about what we just saw even that little

1:39:41

thing right there, right? So That

1:39:43

was only 30 seconds. Okay I

1:39:46

was gonna say something. Yeah, so

1:39:50

If you use a text based

1:39:52

interface in it Remember when this first started

1:39:54

the big kind of question was like wait, I'm

1:39:56

sorry we go back to a command line It was so

1:39:58

you have to type out a description and

1:40:00

then you get some results for them and

1:40:03

you're like, well, that's not exactly what I want.

1:40:05

And then they add the ability, well, you can keep

1:40:07

talking to it, typing to it. Exactly.

1:40:10

And you can modify it. You can say, okay, I like this picture but

1:40:12

remove the tree on the image. That's what it's

1:40:15

doing in designer, I think, I'm sure. It is but the

1:40:17

thing that you just showed is making it

1:40:19

more like a typical GUI app, right? If

1:40:21

you go into Microsoft Paint today,

1:40:24

you can click a button and remove the background

1:40:26

from an image, right? And so, or

1:40:28

you've used like Google Photos in your Pixel phone,

1:40:30

you can go in and tap on a person

1:40:32

and magic erases them out of the image, right?

1:40:34

And I think what you were showing there

1:40:36

was that kind of advanced insight. So in

1:40:38

other words, we've generated an image

1:40:41

of some kind. Maybe it's not

1:40:43

quite what you want. So you're like, now you can go in and

1:40:45

actually tap on stuff and maybe

1:40:47

you can move an item around or remove it

1:40:49

from the image. Like this is perfect, but

1:40:52

I didn't want that one guy flying in the sky or whatever

1:40:54

it might be. So

1:40:56

that's what that looks like. That's what Google has been showing

1:40:58

for years, you know. Yeah,

1:41:00

where their Pixel ads. Right.

1:41:03

I guess maybe that's what people want. That's

1:41:06

what they think of AI being. You

1:41:08

spread. And by the way, that's Apple's

1:41:10

position is, you know, you don't want a chat thing.

1:41:12

You just, you just... Oh, I

1:41:15

think they're right about that. Yeah. You just want

1:41:17

us to help you. This is... A

1:41:24

year ago, I wrote this thing called, this

1:41:26

is Windows 12 and it had whatever. This

1:41:28

was the... This came out of the conversation

1:41:30

we had at the time, whether Windows 12

1:41:32

would require an MPU or maybe there would

1:41:34

be features in Windows 12 that would require

1:41:36

an MPU or maybe those features would

1:41:38