0:00

It's time for Windows Weekly. Paul Theriot is

0:02

here. Richard Campbell is here. I

0:04

will finally find out who sent me all

0:06

that whiskey. I might have

0:08

a clue as to that.

0:10

Also coming up, Windows 11. The

0:13

final patch Tuesday of the

0:15

year arrives. What's in it? And

0:17

Paul reveals how many hours he

0:20

played video games this year. The answer

0:22

might surprise you. It's all coming up

0:24

next on Windows Weekly. Podcasts

0:27

you love. From

0:30

people you trust. This

0:33

is TWIT. This

0:40

is Windows Weekly with Paul Theriot and Richard

0:42

Campbell. Episode 859. Recorded Wednesday, December 13th, 2023.

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TWIT in the How Did You

1:10

Hear About Us box. Hello

1:14

Windows fans, winners, and

1:16

dozers. It's

1:18

time for Windows Weekly. Paul

1:20

Theriot is here, chortling

1:23

away in the background. He is

1:25

of course with theriot.com, his own, what do you call it? Eponymous?

1:29

His eponymous website. Sure.

1:33

It sounds like it's diseased in some way.

1:35

It's a good REM album. The

1:37

eponymous REM. The eponymous Paul

1:39

Theriot. Richard Campbell is here.

1:41

Run as radio.com. That's

1:45

the name of course of the podcast as

1:47

well as.net rocks. Hello gentlemen.

1:49

Richard, are you in your

1:51

normal spot at Madera Lake?

1:54

My normal space back at the ocean. But,

1:56

you know, color problems today for some reason.

2:00

rip the camera apart again but I don't feel

2:02

like it. You're a little pink and green. A

2:04

little pink, yeah. Which is unusual, to say the

2:06

least. Hey, I want to thank you. You

2:09

know, I got a mystery gift yesterday. And

2:13

it was a bunch of whiskey. Now

2:15

listen, a bunch of whiskey arrives. Why

2:18

is that a mystery? Yeah, I should have known.

2:21

I brought it in and I thought, oh, I can't wait to

2:23

tell Richard about this. And then of

2:25

course it's from Richard. It's a whiskey advent

2:27

calendar. How cool is that? And

2:29

Paul, you got one too? Did

2:31

he get the same one? Yeah, obviously. Did

2:33

he get the Explorer's edition? I think the different

2:35

ones. Oh, I got the Explorer's edition. There

2:38

you go. What did you get, Paul? I want you to

2:40

explore some. I don't

2:42

remember. It's, I think mine is like a

2:44

rare whiskey. The Drunk Edition. Why

2:48

nice whiskeys. So this is, yeah,

2:50

right. So this starts with,

2:52

this is, I mean, here we are. We're on

2:54

the 13th, so I've got a... So I noticed

2:56

you started, oh, yeah, I don't know how to

2:58

do this. So the numbers aren't in order. No,

3:00

they're all over. That's to keep you

3:02

from drinking too much. That's

3:05

not that helpful. The

3:07

complication... The little black scats. The

3:10

little cardboard thing you have to open to get

3:12

to the whiskey might stop me from drinking, but

3:14

only after a certain point. So

3:17

yeah, I'm not sure how this, how

3:19

this, let's see, wait a minute now. So that

3:21

was the first one. There you

3:24

go. There's two. There's two. I

3:26

don't understand. So you obviously understand this.

3:29

I don't know. Everybody lays their admins

3:31

out differently. It's craziness. Seriously,

3:33

I think they're trying to keep it so that you don't just open

3:35

them all at once. Yeah. Yeah.

3:39

I mean, almost a balance thing, right? Because those bottles are

3:41

heavy. Oh, maybe that's it. Yeah. Yeah.

3:44

Oh yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah. So

3:47

this is, I guess this is from the people who, it

3:49

says, that boutiquey whiskey company,

3:54

whiskey blend. So

3:56

I don't know who's, what this is from, but

3:59

this is a drink. announce of

4:01

let's just see how many of these you can get

4:03

through before the end of the show I show I

4:05

show every time you say

4:07

insider I shall take one yeah oh I got

4:09

bad news for you I didn't have another show

4:12

to do right after this

4:14

one I

4:20

might actually consider that but I can't I can't

4:22

show up drunk to a show so you

4:25

know what I'm not sure that's true that's what

4:27

let's find out we

4:30

used to in the old days

4:33

of radio this was a common gag and I did

4:35

it once you do

4:37

it right before the holidays you get a highway patrol

4:39

officer to come into the

4:41

studio and he administers alcohol

4:43

to you and you get drunk and he

4:46

gives you a breathalyzer and then I don't

4:49

know what the message is it's fun

4:51

it's under the supervision of a state trooper

4:54

like what why does that make it better the big

4:56

one is that you

4:58

cross the threshold where you'll be busted for drunk

5:00

driving before you think you're that's I think

5:02

the point of it yes right like then

5:05

it becomes fun an hour later when you

5:07

really are drunk yeah yeah this smells good

5:10

so I wonder is this a house brand or it'll

5:13

be a house it'll be a if it

5:15

says world whiskey on it yeah that is

5:17

the blend from multiple countries oh interesting oh

5:19

good I'm sure there's a map in here

5:21

somewhere yeah and it's the mmm

5:24

the Nikkei so I'm equally sure that if you put it

5:26

on the map you couldn't watch for one it's quite

5:28

good now I'm I would love to give this to Richard

5:30

and see if he can identify the countries I

5:33

my first guess when as soon as you saw the

5:35

name on that is that is probably one of the

5:37

Nikkei world blends mm-hmm that has a little bit of

5:39

the coffee still in it I think you're right that

5:41

Nevis yeah cuz it's not smoky

5:43

or peaty at all it tastes

5:45

like a Japanese whiskey yeah so I think

5:47

you would then be because they own Ben Nevis

5:50

in the Western Highlands they would put that in

5:52

there which is a normal thing for them to

5:54

do yeah boom it's a world whiskey it's very

5:56

good it's quite mild

5:58

I could probably drink this and not even notice.

6:01

Well I bet we would notice in the in

6:05

a while in time. In time in the

6:07

words of

6:10

Oprah Winfrey at

6:12

least according to this animated gif, you

6:14

get a shot and you get a shot and

6:16

you get a shot. Thank

6:19

you to the Discord for that. Maybe

6:22

this is a good time

6:24

to wreck a whiskey and

6:26

pills diet which is working wonders for

6:28

me. Oh

6:30

no, no we don't recommend that's the mail-in-the-road

6:32

diet. We don't recommend that. Right. All

6:35

right now we're gonna be serious here because we have to

6:37

talk about Windows 11 and

6:39

if you can do it without using the word insider

6:41

Paul I would would appreciate

6:43

it. What's up? I

6:46

would just my recommendation is

6:48

pop a few more of

6:50

those open. But we can

6:52

start re-insider. With

6:57

Patch Tuesday which was Jess says the final patch

7:00

Tuesday of 2023. I'm already down to one here.

7:02

This is terrible.

7:06

So for Windows 11 users there's

7:08

some new features in there which

7:11

is interesting. So mostly, well not

7:13

all, but mostly copilot related. The

7:15

big one is that for those with

7:17

multiple displays if you open

7:20

copilot on one of the secondary displays

7:22

it will open there from then on

7:24

if you use the keyboard shortcuts and I

7:26

should say will open on that window or

7:28

in that display. That's a nice feature. Yeah,

7:30

yeah, yeah actually I mean one of the things

7:32

I kind of one of the

7:35

reasons I don't like copilot especially on a

7:37

laptop is that it pushes the windows over.

7:39

Yeah. You know honestly having it over in

7:41

a second screen is actually not horrible. It

7:44

also solves one of the multitasking problems with copilot

7:46

which I had in the original version of the

7:48

book which is that it does

7:50

not appear in Alt-Tab or in Task

7:53

View which is Windows Key plus tab meaning

7:55

you can't multitask to it without actually clicking

7:57

on it but now you can.

8:00

So now what appears in all tab. But not

8:02

in task view. Are you

8:04

talking about this new icon down here? No,

8:08

you're on an insider preview thing. That's

8:10

a preview button. Preview is the... Well,

8:14

I should say, sorry, it is that button, but

8:16

in stable it's not where it is on your

8:18

machine. Oh, okay. So

8:20

we're going to search bar. Yep,

8:22

they're testing this, they're moving it

8:25

there. Okay. To make it

8:27

more of a one-to-one relation between the button and what

8:29

it does, I guess. Yeah, because it's right there and

8:31

it pops up above it, which makes sense. Instead of

8:33

having it here, which is where it was

8:36

in the search till. Yeah. So

8:39

we don't have that in stable yet. But we do have these

8:41

two new features. So if you have multiple

8:43

displays, again, you can move

8:46

that thing around. And if you have... It

8:48

doesn't matter what you have, you can all tab to it. These

8:51

are unfortunately CFRs, meaning

8:53

that you will not see them immediately necessarily.

8:55

I'm seeing one feature but not the other on

8:57

this computer and the other feature but not the

8:59

first one in this one, you know, in the

9:01

laptop. Yeah, so I had to go take... I

9:03

updated the book today for this and that

9:05

was amusing. So

9:08

I had to do it from two different computers. It

9:11

doesn't matter. The other thing that's

9:13

debuting, this is less exciting or

9:15

less good, but is this account

9:17

notification feature that is

9:19

in start, which you'll almost never see. If

9:21

you open your start menu and you see

9:23

a little overlay on your user

9:25

account picture and you click on it, you'll see

9:28

a little kind of advertisement in the menu there

9:30

for turning on

9:32

OneDrive search or OneDrive folder backup,

9:35

excuse me, or whatever. It's

9:38

sort of those kind of notifications and also

9:40

in settings. You can

9:42

disable that fortunately in

9:44

privacy and security settings in the general area.

9:48

I should just bring that up now and look at it actually.

9:51

Privacy security general, yeah, under Windows permissions

9:53

and then... Yeah, you

9:56

might already be turning this stuff off. So

9:58

in the book, I recommend... turning all

10:00

of these options off, but show

10:03

me suggested content in the settings app. We'll

10:06

probably be renamed to Start and End in

10:08

the Settings app so you can turn

10:11

that stuff off, suggested content. So

10:14

that's it for 2023 for Windows 11. For Windows 10 users,

10:18

CoPilot is still in preview, but now it's available

10:20

to anyone on Windows 10. So if you want

10:22

to go in search or seek for that, it's

10:26

an optional preview update I guess and

10:29

you can get that. You

10:31

get that from update or you just go

10:33

on Windows update? Yeah, it's a preview update.

10:35

It's apparently, I don't have

10:38

a Windows 10 machine so I can't see

10:40

this part, but I believe it is the

10:42

CFR meaning you actually might still not be

10:44

able to offer the preview update. It's crazy.

10:46

So the

10:49

Windows 10 version of CoPilot does not do any of

10:51

the Windows integration stuff, so you know, you can launch

10:53

a few features, launch a few settings from

10:56

Windows 11 CoPilot. That's

10:59

not in Windows 10 yet. It is coming. That'll be

11:01

in a future release. The whole problem with the CFR

11:03

thing is that they're even admitting that they're doing it.

11:05

I mean, I'm not saying don't do it because it's

11:07

a good thing to put out to small sections and

11:09

then metric them back to see how they're going. But

11:13

if you put it up on a web page saying

11:15

this is happening and then some people don't get it,

11:18

they just get angry. Like don't do that. Don't tell

11:20

them or Google. Or don't do it that way. Google

11:23

does something similar in that they roll out

11:25

new features. Today, for example, there's

11:27

a Pixel Watch update going out. You

11:30

may or may not get it today. You may get it tomorrow.

11:32

You may get it in five days. And

11:34

so they sort of describe that as a

11:36

gradual rollout. A rolling update.

11:39

Yeah. And then, you know, I don't

11:41

like it. What's also about not knocking

11:43

down the network, right? Like it's a

11:45

lot of devices. Yeah. But in Microsoft's

11:47

case, it's weird because the CFR is

11:49

literally random. So back in the day...

11:52

To you, it appears random. No, they say it's random.

11:54

No, they literally said it's random. They might be lying.

11:56

Oh, okay. I'm sorry. That's true. Well, in my case...

12:00

So I mean this this today's update was random

12:02

right? It was kind of interesting, but well not

12:04

right I mean that's not parents. It was I

12:07

only do this on two computers, but Yeah,

12:10

that's how they documented so traditionally

12:13

The past several years anyway a feature update

12:15

would be rolled out on a best known good

12:17

configuration basis, right? You know if we know your

12:20

PC there's nothing there that prevents this We know

12:22

this is gonna work fine and we believe it

12:24

is you'll get it among the first right? CFR

12:26

is literally just you know just kind of goes

12:28

that I mean it's all right I mean I

12:30

wonder if it is I said I bet a

12:32

there's a there's a list of all when it's

12:34

a CFR these people always Get it. I

12:37

bet there are this set of hardware. They

12:39

never get it, right? Because

12:41

otherwise you just create problems like nothing's you

12:43

wouldn't be truly random because truly random would

12:45

cause too much trouble Well,

12:47

I wanted diversity of devices, but we have minimum

12:49

amount of pain. I Can't

12:52

explain this. I I don't Logically,

12:56

I understand the notion of we have an

12:58

idea of why a certain software They may

13:00

or may not work well on a certain

13:02

configuration like I get that Doing

13:05

it random is like this is there not a

13:07

better way and that's where I feel like I'm

13:09

not really random Yeah, it

13:11

could be random is a way to say don't feel

13:14

bad Okay,

13:16

there you go. Interesting. No, no wait saw that

13:18

we're discriminating against you was right Yeah,

13:21

one of the random things we look for

13:23

is the name throat in your Microsoft account

13:25

name if that's there I know there's definitely

13:27

an if the rot send each Yeah,

13:32

and one build that the rot only Ever

13:35

right every graph is the UI orange for

13:37

everybody or just me well and only for

13:39

a week So you get all your screenshots

13:42

redone and then turn it up. They

13:44

did that to me with Windows Vista, by the way When

13:47

I first came up Yeah, last time I was

13:49

doing screenshots for a book like that. It was

13:51

like sequel 2000 Okay,

13:54

and the month before release they overhauled the

13:56

entire UI and changed everything I redid 120.

13:58

Yeah, so So with

14:00

Windows Vista they didn't announce

14:03

or reveal the translucent new

14:05

icons for all the apps

14:08

until right before it happened. And

14:11

the book was already printed and we had all

14:13

the old icons. So that was great.

14:15

So second edition happened pretty damn quick. And

14:18

that was the beginning of me saying maybe I

14:20

don't do print books anymore. The print has problems.

14:22

There's no two ways about it. You

14:24

do the internet. So speaking of

14:26

which, Leo's taken off but he might want to

14:28

see this. Oh, he's

14:31

coming back. Sorry Leo, I didn't mean to make you come. But

14:34

he just reminded me of this. What?

14:38

What? I'm going through all my old photos

14:41

and consolidating my old

14:43

photo libraries. And one of the things

14:45

I found from 2010 which I've now put

14:47

up on the throt.com YouTube channel is

14:50

a 2010 kind of promotional

14:52

video that you and I made for

14:55

Windows 7 Secrets. And

14:57

I don't remember the what instigated

15:00

this if this was something you suggested to me or if

15:02

I asked you if you would do it. It's

15:06

possible. Yeah, maybe Amazon wanted something and

15:08

maybe I asked you to do it for that

15:10

reason. I blanked

15:12

it out. Yeah. Well,

15:15

you can tell during the video but no. It's

15:17

not on the advent calendar. Is

15:19

this on the Throt channel? Or

15:22

no content there? youtube.com/that

15:26

sign, throt.com. throt.com.

15:30

Got it. Yeah, you can click the link right there. Oh

15:33

my goodness. This

15:35

is hysterical. I don't know

15:37

how I'd get the audio. We look like

15:39

children. Great shirt though. Oh, look

15:42

how young you are Paulie. 15

15:44

year old Paulie. Wow. Well,

15:47

anyway, it's if

15:51

you want the audio. Oh wait a minute. Here it is. My

15:54

audio has been muted here. Let's turn it back on. Now

15:57

you should be able to see. I was trying to think where should I.

16:00

put that I should save this but where should I put it I

16:02

don't think it makes sense in the photos and

16:04

I was like wait a minute you have a YouTube channel yeah perfect

16:07

place to put it isn't this like

16:09

your garbage channel or no no no

16:11

this is where this is where this is the

16:13

right look at your hair I don't remember you

16:16

looking like that you're also

16:18

kind of distorted I don't know what's going

16:20

on with you oh yeah so actually when

16:22

you go to a when it's just me

16:24

in the frame yeah it changes the aspect

16:26

ratio whatever weird oh I guess we didn't

16:28

do that well yeah

16:33

I mean even the graphics on this

16:35

look like the old iOS interface but

16:37

it was you know yeah a long

16:39

time ago yeah yeah win supersite calm

16:41

I remember that oh

16:45

and do you remember that house used to live in well

16:48

yeah that's where my children

16:50

grew up the longest place

16:53

we ever lived how fun

16:56

how fun is that and

16:59

there's a exercise machine you never used

17:01

until all right well no I did

17:03

use it quite a bit for a time but in

17:07

fact we moved it to the house in Pennsylvania Wow

17:10

oh so we're here in Denham here yeah

17:13

Wow look at that yeah how

17:15

fun that's great

17:17

video yeah sorry I didn't mean to snag you

17:19

as you were I was drinking

17:21

whatever I was just getting up as

17:24

I usually do during most people don't know

17:26

it because only use me leaving I like

17:29

to wander while they while you're talking about things

17:32

no actually I was

17:34

gonna give this to Lisa Amy Webb who's a

17:36

regular on our on Twit

17:39

sent us she does the future today Institute

17:42

set us a very nice holiday

17:44

gift this is a set

17:46

of probably is valuable

17:49

Nintendo playing cards remember they used to

17:51

be Hanafuda

17:53

playing cards but

17:56

with Mario as the potato

17:58

tarot cards I'm not opening

18:01

it because I think probably this

18:03

is somehow valuable. I'm going

18:05

to put this on eBay now and I'm going to give it to

18:08

a Mario-loving child in our

18:10

family. But isn't that cool? Thank

18:13

you, Amy. So I was just going to

18:15

run over to Lisa and say, hey, I got

18:17

something for stock and stuff for

18:20

one of our little ones. It

18:23

was not so little anymore. What

18:25

are you showing? You're using an iPad, it looks

18:27

like, to show this. You, that's

18:29

you, you made it. You

18:33

literally say, you said something like,

18:35

I like to dig, Paul, when possible, so I'm

18:38

going to show it on an iPad. Oh,

18:41

that's hysterical. It's some sort of leather harness, which

18:43

is kind of cute. Yeah, well back then, you

18:45

know, we didn't have nice little iPad holder. No,

18:49

this is probably a second, too. So

18:54

do you know what the date is of this?

18:56

Windows 7 would have been... No, not exactly, but

18:58

it's got to be late 2010 sometime. Yeah,

19:01

back in the day. Yeah.

19:04

Paul, we've been doing this a long time. Yeah,

19:06

it's just 20. No, we had been doing

19:08

it a long time. When that video came out,

19:10

we'd never been doing it for 50 years. Yeah,

19:12

yep. That was our

19:14

third Windows version. You

19:18

did the first Windows Secrets with 95? No,

19:21

I mean, for us, when we started the show XP was

19:23

still a thing, but Vista was just about to come out.

19:26

And then Vista and then 7. That's where I

19:28

started Run As, too, right? Because it's a really

19:30

great thing to talk, to submit about Windows technology

19:33

when Vista just shipped. Wow.

19:35

Wow. Those

19:37

were the days. Actually

19:39

the Microsoft ugly sweater

19:41

this year is not

19:44

that ugly. It's the list from Windows. It

19:46

says from Vista, right? Or is it actually...

19:48

It's sold out instantly, too. Yeah, it's like

19:50

a whole lot of contention about how ugly

19:54

it was. Yeah. Of course,

19:56

correct. Next year it'll be Windows 8 or

19:58

something. Next year it'll be Bob. Well, I'll

20:00

wear next week on

20:03

the show. I will wear the last year's

20:05

Clippy sweater, which truly is ugly. Yeah.

20:09

That's the one. I got that one. I

20:13

kept hoping every time Chris Capicela came on

20:15

that he would give us these sweaters, but

20:18

no. So screw him.

20:21

Well, no, I think they were actually very hard to get. I

20:23

think they were limited. He often had one. He often had one.

20:27

He would wear one. Yeah. I'm not

20:29

saying he didn't have one. I'm

20:31

saying we didn't have one, Paul. I

20:34

wasn't going to buy this one because it is not ugly.

20:37

It's bliss. And this is, by the way, Sonoma

20:39

County. This is where we get up the road

20:41

in peace from here. All

20:45

right. Back to the show. Yes.

20:49

Pop out some whiskey. We got some

20:51

insider stuff to talk about. Oh, no. That's

20:53

three. Oh, my gosh. Here we go. Oh,

20:55

I've been putting it in my coffee,

20:57

but I'm not going to be able to

21:00

move before long. I

21:03

find it's best if you know you're going to be doing

21:05

this. Just lay down. You know, just get it started. Drink

21:08

upside down. This is something called

21:11

darkness. It's a single malt eight

21:13

years old. Hello

21:15

darkness, my old friend. Hello darkness, my old

21:18

friend. A single malt

21:20

whiskey in my hand. Eight-year-old

21:23

in my hand. Eight-year-old.

21:25

This probably is pretty good. It's

21:28

a little darker than the other. There's only one way

21:30

to find out. That's all I'm

21:32

saying. Yeah. What

21:35

are you going to do? You're worse than

21:37

that state trooper. All right. I'm an

21:39

enabler. You're like PowerPC, remember? I went

21:41

to CS or the context one year

21:43

and it's like PowerPC. It's an

21:45

enabler. That was the thing. They

21:47

just said it over and over again. They didn't understand.

21:50

They really didn't understand. You walked from room to room.

21:52

Yeah. That was before it

21:54

was bad. It was triggering. Yeah, that's not good. That's

21:56

not good. That's not what you

21:58

want. Yep. Right, insider

22:00

time, ladies and terms. Yeah, we have

22:02

a bunch of builds. So last

22:05

Thursday we got Canary and Dev builds.

22:08

They're testing undocking co-pilot. So this co-pilot pane

22:10

that you can now move to a different

22:13

display and I would imagine one day we'll

22:15

be able to move to the left side

22:17

of any display, will

22:19

apparently or maybe, because they're testing it, be

22:21

available also as a floating pane. Yeah, it

22:23

does sound like this is just straight experimentation.

22:25

How do people want to interact with co-pilot?

22:28

Actually, one of the features

22:30

in this list is literally experimentation. So yeah,

22:32

you're probably right. Minor

22:35

changes to widgets, not the one we're hoping for,

22:37

although they are also testing separately

22:39

the ability to turn off the widget. No,

22:41

not the widget feed, the news feed, the news

22:43

and interest feed, which is those terrible quality

22:46

news stories. And then maybe

22:48

even a line about the television brought the sewer into

22:51

your living room. Well, yeah,

22:53

so it brings it into your home

22:55

office. Yeah, it's terrible. And

22:58

honestly, the widgets interface with just the

23:00

widgets sounds great to me. I

23:02

would actually use that. Hey, look, I don't

23:04

mind a news feed, but think it Reuters for

23:06

God's sake. So there

23:08

will be third party feed capabilities, but it will

23:11

be a matter of someone making that happen. And

23:13

it's the thing, it's not going to be very

23:15

long. Somebody with enough meticulousness will build a feed

23:17

of credible sources and go, here you go. Yeah,

23:20

there you go. So we'll probably see that. Minor

23:23

changes to the Windows 365 stuff, the boot

23:25

and switch. Did you hear that? And I

23:27

think patch and switch. Yes, of course. Right.

23:30

Who are on run as this week. Nice. Beautiful.

23:33

Okay. Love those

23:35

guys. So Windows Share, we talked about this

23:38

a little bit. This is an interface I use

23:40

a lot. I mentioned to copy files from one

23:42

computer to the other while in touch screenshots, right?

23:45

And the way that this thing works, well, actually, so

23:47

Windows Share is a little messed up in the sense

23:49

that it works differently whether

23:51

you're in a folder that is part of

23:53

OneDrive or just some other folder. You

23:56

actually get a completely different interface. And you can

23:58

see why from a technological point of view. From

24:00

a UX property view, it's like, what are you

24:02

thinking? Well, but okay, here's my

24:04

problem with this. By

24:07

default, Windows will

24:10

back up your pictures folder to

24:13

OneDrive. And that's where your screenshots are saved.

24:16

And then charge it for it, yes. Okay, but that's,

24:18

I mean, yes, that's a separate concern. But the point

24:20

is, I want to go in there and then share

24:22

the files, the pictures I just talked with a

24:24

different computer. I can't. Well,

24:26

I mean, I can, but I have to do it in a OneDrive way. So

24:28

it's a OneDrive interface. I can create a link

24:30

and it emails me. And

24:33

then I go to the other computer, I open my email, I click on

24:36

the link, it opens OneDrive and the web, and I can download it. I

24:38

just want to get the files. Right. So

24:40

the non-OneDrive Windows share lets

24:42

you do what I just described. One of the ways you can share

24:44

is Nearby Share. And

24:47

that's the thing I used to do, the Instant Share. I

24:49

don't know why I can't save a

24:52

local file from a OneDrive folder that is

24:54

there on the computer using

24:56

Nearby Share, but you can't. Maybe someday that will happen. Because,

24:58

reasons. I

25:00

know, you're totally right. It should be utterly symmetrical. It

25:03

shouldn't make any difference at all. Right. So

25:05

I just want to find a file here so I

25:07

can describe it. What's the logical outcome? Just don't use

25:09

OneDrive? Like, really? Is that what

25:11

you wanted? Well, so what

25:13

I've done is I've actually configured a third-party screenshot

25:16

program to save files to the downloads folder on

25:18

that computer because that's not in OneDrive. And then

25:20

I can use the normal share. So, yeah, that's

25:22

what I've done. Literally, it's like, this works better

25:24

if you don't use OneDrive. My

25:27

whole life is a work-around to the bad

25:29

behaviors that Microsoft does. But

25:32

Windows Share, no, it really is. I

25:36

don't think people have a generally true statement about

25:38

all computing. In fact, all technology. We live

25:41

in the world of work-arounds. Right.

25:44

They want you to do something. You don't like it. And you say, well,

25:46

what can I do to fix this? Okay.

25:49

So that's that. But my point was to

25:51

the point of this Windows Share feature in

25:53

the Canary and our Dev build is that

25:55

Windows Share also has other ways to share.

25:57

Right. You can share via email. contacts

26:00

and then you can share with apps

26:02

that register themselves as shared targets,

26:04

right? This dates back to Windows 8. This is

26:06

the the notion that you're sharing, you know, I

26:09

have a file to share and it

26:11

will say well you know Microsoft Teams can

26:13

do that, Microsoft Outlook can do that, Microsoft

26:15

Mail can do that, that kind of thing.

26:17

I guess what's happening is not a lot of third

26:20

party apps are signing into this so what Microsoft is

26:22

starting to do is just add them. So

26:25

for example WhatsApp is

26:27

an app you could share files with but

26:29

WhatsApp does not register itself as a target

26:31

for Windows Share so

26:33

Microsoft is testing that right now and if this

26:36

goes well they're going to do it

26:38

with other apps as well. They say they haven't said

26:40

which ones but they should probably work the other way

26:42

too like loop doesn't work with Android Share. Right

26:46

so there's a rumor that Android Share

26:49

compatible or Android nearby share compatibility is

26:51

coming to nearby share in Windows so

26:53

that may maybe that will happen. Wait

26:56

is that what you were asking? Sorry, no

26:58

maybe that wasn't the idea that you take

27:00

a bunch of pictures with your Android phone.

27:02

You can't mark them all say okay share

27:04

to loop and they all pop in. You

27:06

have to go to loop and say get

27:08

a picture, go select the

27:11

photo collection, select a

27:13

picture. Leo

27:16

may or may not remember this but years

27:18

ago I brought up this idea that I

27:20

just didn't understand why this wasn't how things

27:22

work. Yeah. But if you're on a if

27:24

you're in a Chromebook for example one of

27:26

the interesting things that's possible there is you

27:28

have file system access to your Google Drive

27:30

big deal we have that Windows right but

27:33

but it doesn't have to be syncing to the

27:35

Chromebook. Right. Anything in there can be can write

27:38

the access from there. Yeah.

27:40

Open file dialogue through a share whatever it

27:42

is and and I've never understood why that

27:44

wasn't the case with everything like these things

27:46

are up in the cloud I should

27:48

be able to select some files it doesn't matter where I am or

27:50

where I'm doing it in and they're in

27:52

OneDrive and say I want to move these

27:54

over my Google Drive but just make it

27:57

happen and it this this functionality doesn't exist

27:59

it's sort of like the

28:02

notion that Loop is sort

28:04

of like Cloud OLA or whatever. It's like this

28:06

stuff should all be connected. I don't

28:08

know why operating systems don't do this.

28:10

Chrome OS does with Google Drive. It

28:13

just makes sense to me. I don't

28:15

get it. Anyway, I

28:17

would like ... It'd be so much easier to share things,

28:19

I guess is what I'm trying to say. All right. So

28:22

last Thursday, the co-pilot undocked, what did you change? It's like

28:24

a Windows 365 minor thing. It's Windows

28:26

Share, the thing I just described. They

28:28

added character count. So notepad,

28:32

character count. Microsoft.

28:34

People want word count also?

28:37

Duh. I

28:39

added this functionality to my

28:41

notepad clone three or four years ago. I don't

28:43

even remember anymore. If I can do it, I

28:45

figure the Microsoft probably has the smarts. They

28:47

can figure this out. But

28:50

that's cute. They're continuing to update

28:52

notepad. Okay. On Friday, we had

28:54

a beta build. We had a

28:58

beta channel build. The

29:01

Windows Share improvement I just mentioned is there,

29:03

and then some minor Windows Store stuff that's

29:05

not really worth discussing. Today,

29:07

we have two more builds. Dev

29:10

channel. Microsoft is deprecating

29:12

something called Windows Speech Recognition, which

29:15

is a technology that debuted in

29:17

Windows Vista, if I'm not mistaken.

29:19

Wow. And replacing it. Actually,

29:21

it's already been replaced.

29:24

There's a feature in

29:26

Windows 11, what's it called, Paul?

29:28

The voice feature is called. It's based on

29:30

their Nuance Acquisition, right? This is the guys

29:32

who actually, it's just called,

29:34

what is it called? It's called Voice Access. Sorry.

29:37

So Voice Access in Windows 11 and probably

29:39

10, I don't use 10 anymore, but probably,

29:42

is that modern Nuance based Speech

29:44

Recognition engine. So they're deprecating WSR

29:47

and replacing it with Voice Access

29:50

that will disappear in some future version of Windows.

29:53

So that is available in the dev channel as

29:55

of today. And, Richard, this is

29:57

the one, this one's for you in the

29:59

Canary Build. today a new

30:01

feature called Windows Protected Print Mode

30:04

which is wait for it that

30:06

exact thing we've been talking about Microsoft

30:08

is taking over print

30:10

drivers. Yes. Oh! One little print

30:13

nightmare which by the way was

30:15

two years ago right

30:18

yes where well you know no one ever accused

30:20

them of moving quick no but I

30:23

mean the reality was when you had print

30:25

when you use print everywhere features in a

30:27

network right in or when a machine would

30:29

log in and one acts as the printers

30:32

it was an administrator level thing so would

30:34

auto escalate to a to administrator account to

30:36

be able to connect you to the printers. Okay.

30:39

And that was with level 3 drivers

30:41

which is virtually what all that the

30:43

OEMs make they don't try to make

30:46

level 4 drivers because those are hard.

30:48

Yeah. And they

30:52

did the classic panic fix the first

30:54

panic fix was it forced a UAC

30:56

problem like why are you auto escalating

30:59

use the security for so instead when people would fire

31:01

up the machines are just immediately pop a UAC and

31:04

because that makes people happy that was great

31:06

you know and so that new level of

31:09

screaming match da da da da and as

31:11

they finally fought through it over over a

31:13

year they came to conclusion yeah we need

31:15

to take the server. So by the way

31:17

the customers are delighted actually. Oh I bet yeah.

31:19

Because one of the things that happens when

31:21

Microsoft writes the drivers not only does it do

31:24

the fundamentals it did not try to sell

31:26

you ink even once. No

31:28

they only do that in the star menu. Yeah.

31:31

So that's right. And bad news sources.

31:33

The two companies that still make printers

31:35

were not too happy about this but

31:38

so here's what's interesting they Windows insiders not very

31:41

good at this but they provided more information for

31:43

the first time possibly ever and

31:45

apparently this the kind of standard

31:47

they're using our printer it's something

31:49

called Mopria certified printers mopri

31:52

cups. I'm surprised.

31:56

I have no idea I've never heard of it

31:58

forever. Yeah. And there's a source. But

32:01

the point is what we were just

32:03

discussing, no more third party software installers,

32:05

better security printers. Can

32:09

you still install a third party driver

32:11

if you want to or no? That's

32:13

Windows so yeah, right? I'm sure. So

32:15

this is really an admin thing,

32:18

right? This is an admin problem.

32:21

What I can't do is you as a

32:23

domain user give you a printer, not

32:26

automatically. I have to actually

32:28

configure it and deploy it. We can do

32:30

that on Apple I think

32:32

because of... Bonjour. And

32:36

you can do it on a home network and

32:38

all kinds of things, right? Because you already have

32:40

administrator actions. It's an enterprise, I get it. This

32:42

is when I want to restrict people's access to

32:44

their machines, restrict their capabilities, stop them from installing

32:46

apps, that kind of thing. Printers go along

32:48

for the ride. And working

32:50

around that without elevating privileges is

32:53

complicated. But the alternative

32:55

is ransomware. We don't mind if consumers

32:57

get ransomware. Nobody cares. We

33:00

care when corporations get ransomware. Right.

33:03

Right. Well, and the truth is consumers are no longer

33:05

targets. I mean, there's no money there. There's no damage

33:07

but it's not... Yeah, you're

33:09

not. Yeah. There's no money there.

33:11

On my count, I've said inside a previous 17 times now,

33:13

yes? I don't know if you were keeping track but I

33:16

want to make sure you didn't miss any

33:18

because you have some drinking to do. I'm

33:21

sorry. I'm running

33:23

out of steam, man. You might

33:26

find me next time you cut me. You're sweating

33:28

but you're cold. Is that normal? My head on

33:30

the table. Oh my God. There it is. Yeah.

33:33

Did you taste the darkness? I did. I

33:36

didn't. I can't. I think

33:38

the darkness is the fantastic title

33:40

for this podcast. I

33:45

put the first one in my coffee. So

33:47

at least it's a speedball. And

33:50

actually it really enhanced the flavor of the coffee. It

33:52

was good. So maybe you're right.

33:54

Maybe there were coffee grounds in the whiskey. It

33:57

sounds good. Sounds good. I

34:00

think I'm gonna save the darkness for later,

34:02

shall I? Save the darkness. Yes. Yeah,

34:05

of course. Okay,

34:07

so that's it for the Windows Insider preview.

34:10

That's 18. But

34:13

we have other Windows news. Well, let me take a

34:15

break and... Nope. Well, I'm not

34:17

done with Windows yet. I want me to finish Windows. Two

34:19

Windows items left. No, there's only two. Okay,

34:21

go ahead then. Fine.

34:23

Fine. You've been drinking. You

34:25

don't even know what's coming. What are you on now? Okay.

34:29

So, Clipchamp is

34:32

one of those unicorns. It made me stop using

34:34

something that works really well and use something else

34:36

instead. It's one of my favorite apps. You did

34:38

like it. Windows 2 or 3 episodes on

34:40

the Clipchamp. I think it was 3. Yeah, I'm

34:42

gonna do Windows. Yeah. I'm gonna be

34:44

doing a new one because there's four new features in Clipchamp. One

34:48

of which, maybe two of which are AI based. The

34:50

first is one of the ones they announced for Windows

34:52

11.23 H2, which is auto compose. And

34:56

this is just one of those video creation things. You throw a

34:58

bunch of assets at it and it creates a finished video for

35:00

you and you can edit

35:03

it obviously. You can just publish it,

35:05

right? But the other three we did not know about. One

35:08

is something called Content Library. And that's just

35:10

a consolidation of the UI. They used to

35:12

have previous or separately had separate

35:14

entries in the toolbar down the side

35:16

for video, image, music, graphics, whatever. Now

35:19

there's a content library. It's all in one place. So,

35:21

you know, whatever. That's fine. I think the UI was

35:23

getting a little busy. Right

35:26

now allows you to do audio recording

35:28

directly in the app. I've actually done this

35:30

a few times or

35:33

needed to do this a few times and I used whatever

35:36

the thing that is built into Windows. What

35:38

do you think I would know? I don't know. Audio

35:40

recorders? Yeah, something recorder. What's it called?

35:42

Something different recorder. No, that's not recorder.

35:45

Sorry. They've changed the name since

35:47

Windows 10. Sound recorder. So much

35:49

fun. For that. I

35:51

know. It's like something. It's something speech

35:53

sound. Something something. Yep. It's

35:56

a feature I don't use a lot, but anyway, it worked fine. But now you can

35:58

just do it directly in the app, which is great. Only

36:00

up to 30 minutes though. So if you

36:02

need to a long voiceover, you will still have to

36:04

use a third-party tool or Cut

36:06

it up into pieces, which is fine And

36:09

then some improvements to its text-to-speech editing functionality Which

36:11

by the way is one of those amazing things

36:13

and that was an episode I did for hands

36:15

on Windows because There's a set

36:17

of three five whatever features that clipchamp has

36:20

that I think would really surprise people like how good they are You

36:23

know auto transcription is one of them and that's

36:25

part of this So this is

36:27

if you have a personal account, this is available now This

36:30

one's going to the commercial subscribers in early 2024 But

36:33

all the other features I mentioned are available

36:35

literally everywhere no matter how you access this

36:37

thing But this

36:39

also not only does it do

36:41

text-to-speech, which is basically like an auto transcription

36:43

feature But now you can change the language

36:46

The voice, you know, they've men and women's voices different

36:48

types of you motion and the pitch you can you

36:50

know I've just edit the script which actually isn't new

36:53

But you can do all do this all from a

36:55

single place and this is you know for a free

36:57

goofy little kind of web-based video

36:59

editor Not bad. Yeah, their

37:02

market. It sounds like is for Tiktokers, right?

37:04

I mean, that's kind of who they're and

37:07

57 year old males It's

37:12

for people like it's for people like Paul and

37:14

tick tock and But

37:17

they seem like they're focusing

37:19

on on that creator space.

37:21

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, although I see training Shot,

37:25

you know, I guess They

37:27

brought it to Microsoft 365 commercial

37:30

accounts, right and one of the neat things

37:32

about that is it integrates with your one

37:34

drive storage Which you can't yet do I'm

37:36

expecting this someday with them.

37:38

I'm sorry a consumer Microsoft account So

37:41

right now the way I mean you could just use

37:43

one driver You could obviously store your stuff in one

37:46

drive But right now the way I do it is

37:48

I just have stuff on the desktop or whatever folder

37:50

I pull the things in if I move those files

37:52

later or delete them They're not

37:54

available in the project anymore, right? They're gone. They don't know it

37:56

doesn't know where it went One of

37:58

the nice things about the one driver integration in the commercial

38:00

version is you can move from computer to computer,

38:03

those assets will always be in the same place

38:05

up in OneDrive for business, right? And

38:07

it doesn't matter what computer you're on, they're there, so they

38:10

just kind of come up. So that's

38:12

a really nice feature. It's kind of an obvious feature. I'd like

38:14

to see it come to consumer, and I think it will. And

38:17

then finally, we know that... By the way, that's an

38:20

example of AI, right? And that's

38:22

an example, I mean, of that app, MicroSYS

38:24

could put AI everywhere. Yeah,

38:26

right. In fact, that first feature I

38:29

mentioned was one of the AI features

38:31

they promoted for this 23H2. Right.

38:35

They auto-posed. It's how the term ultimately goes away,

38:37

and it just becomes... Yeah, it's just a computer.

38:39

It's what a computer does. Yeah, it's what software

38:41

does. Yeah, exactly. I think that's fine. Someday

38:44

we'll have AI PCs, and we'll just call

38:46

them PCs, it'll be fine. That's

38:49

what they do. Speaking of

38:51

which, we know that Intel is going

38:54

to release their Meteor Lake processors tomorrow.

38:57

But they're helping me buy. Yeah,

38:59

they rebranded the processors, right? This

39:01

Core Ultra, whatever. This

39:04

is the first time in a few to

39:06

several years, they don't remember the timing, that

39:08

they've released the... Are releasing a

39:11

mobile chipset in the fall. Usually they do

39:13

desktop, one gen, and then mobile.

39:16

This year they're just doing mobile and it's now, and we'll

39:18

see. We'll see how that goes tomorrow. We're going to learn

39:20

more about that tomorrow, but obviously we

39:22

can expect MPUs, et cetera, et

39:25

cetera. In the past week, AMD

39:27

released their equivalent version of FIFTH,

39:30

which is the Ryzen 8040 series mobile

39:33

CPUs, just like the Meteor Lake

39:35

stuff. Oddly, this kind

39:37

of kills me, but most

39:40

of them have MPUs, but some don't,

39:42

and it's like, guys, seriously. So the

39:44

two lowest end chips in this family

39:46

do not have MPUs,

39:48

but the rest of them do. There's a logical

39:50

reason for this, Paul. Yeah,

39:53

cheapness. You

39:56

build one chip, you build it one way, and then

39:59

you test it. spinning. And if the MPU

40:01

is bad, you cut it out and it's shipped

40:03

and it's evident to you. Does

40:06

it use a tiny little ice cream scoop to get it

40:08

out of there? It's like

40:10

that only a laser. Basically, those

40:13

chips are the pig's foot of

40:15

process. You need

40:17

no more as the pig. This is what was

40:19

left, you get. Every

40:21

one of those chips other than the top one

40:24

is a defect of the top one. It

40:26

works as the top one and it costs

40:28

more and the defect stack pushes it down.

40:30

They cut out processors, they cut out memory

40:32

blocks, they cut out feature sets. Okay,

40:35

well, any hope. It's

40:38

confusing for consumers because they

40:40

don't know that there's no NPU in this one. No,

40:44

but they need one, I guess. Based

40:46

on the skew layout and all this, these

40:49

are... Let

40:51

me ask you a question. Would you

40:53

benefit with Bing Chat or this ClipChamp

40:56

auto-edit feature if you had an NPU? Or

40:59

it wouldn't use the NPU for that kind of thing?

41:01

That's going to the cloud. So no, you wouldn't

41:04

benefit from it. So you put the ClipChamp in the cloud. As

41:06

is Bing... Okay. But any

41:08

on-device stuff you would. Right.

41:11

And so in the short term... Given

41:13

drivers, that's always the question.

41:15

Everybody's making their own NPU layouts. Right.

41:18

Is there any ODBC for NPUs at this point? Like,

41:20

I don't think there is. I think it's very... Yeah.

41:22

We're going to find... Right. So like, certain workloads are

41:24

going to work better on this one ship set, but

41:26

not this other. But those who... Yeah. So

41:29

I don't know... We'll see. I mean,

41:31

I'm kind of waiting to see how Intel comes out of

41:33

the gate here. But I

41:35

do think it's a mistake to ship any chipsets

41:37

right now that don't have NPUs, but okay, whatever.

41:42

I'm not as familiar with AMD's

41:44

chips, but we know that Intel

41:46

today has UPH, whatever, series mobile

41:48

processors. It is

41:50

the lowest end of the two U-series

41:52

chips that don't have the NPU, which

41:55

is the lowest-end ones. So these might

41:57

be for very thin light, maybe even

41:59

fanless type of... devices that wouldn't necessarily

42:02

although they are 28. So

42:05

actually that kind of kills that. That's cheap. Yeah,

42:07

but they are the lowest inversion.

42:10

So yeah, I really

42:12

look, this is a big improvement over what was

42:14

the case before. Remember back sometime first half of

42:16

the year AMD released a single chip that had

42:18

an MPU in it. So

42:20

now they have several. So now what you're seeing

42:23

is it's incorporated into die design. And

42:25

so the norm will be MPU. And

42:27

if they know an MPU ones don't

42:29

sell, then they're just going to scrap

42:31

them and stop making a skew for them. Right. I

42:34

mean, there's another set that were even more defective than

42:36

those that they just scrapped. Okay.

42:39

Yeah, I mean, sure. That makes sense. We

42:43

need to wait and see on this stuff, right? Because A,

42:45

it's going to be what is in Windows that takes advantage

42:48

of this. And then what is going to be

42:50

in all these third party apps that people use? Like where will this

42:52

make the most sense? You know, is it? I

42:54

mean, a lot of these models are not so big that they

42:56

couldn't run on board. You know, it's

42:58

just a question of, did you get it

43:00

free from a cloud company? Why are you

43:02

surprised that uses the cloud? So

43:05

when Leo asked, would Bing

43:08

chat or whatever, Windows co-pilot benefit from this, you

43:10

know, the answer is no, but that's today, right?

43:12

So yeah, in the future there will be, well,

43:15

there are today some, but there will be apps and

43:17

workloads and things that run on device and it will

43:19

benefit from that. And then we're going to start to

43:21

see that hybrid thing. I think this is the, it's

43:24

not just an interim way to save money, which is almost

43:27

what I said. It

43:29

is literally probably the best way to do it. When you can run

43:32

things locally, when you can't, or if you need

43:34

to augment the results with whatever might be in

43:36

the cloud or your connectivity is low or whatever,

43:38

this kind of hybrid approach is going

43:40

to make a lot of sense. I mean, I'd love to see

43:42

a two stage model. I've just never heard of one. For me,

43:44

there's small enough that it fits

43:47

on the machine or too big needs to go to the

43:49

cloud. There are some apps in

43:51

general are big. Right. Well,

43:53

but this will have, this is happening. I mean, it is going to happen. Right.

43:56

And so it's just, well, I mean, it is right.

43:58

So I mean a simple, simple example. simple that

44:01

does not exist, but is

44:03

the Gemini stuff that Google announced last week or

44:05

whatever that was. Yeah. There's

44:08

three tiers of that. The smallest one fits on the phone, the nano version.

44:11

Today there's only two features on the Pixel that will

44:13

take advantage of it. They're both on device, so everything

44:15

happens on device. It's a small subset. But

44:18

because it is a subset of the bigger, the pro, and

44:20

I think ultra versions of this thing,

44:22

it's conceivable that when connected to

44:24

the internet, and if you're paying for some

44:26

subscription or something, what can

44:28

happen on their will and what can't will, and

44:30

they'll do that. Well, now we get into the

44:32

app comparison because Google is selling you the device,

44:35

and so they're incentive to have it not cost

44:37

them anything after that, so they'll get as much

44:39

compute on the client. Well,

44:41

that's why I said the phrase subscription

44:43

service. And that's always going

44:45

to be the trade, and you can just sort of debate which

44:48

one is which. I mean, I've, you

44:50

know, Home Assistant is now doing this with voice

44:52

models, depending on the amount of

44:54

computing your Home Assistant device, and

44:56

so you're finding out that the low end

44:58

ones, they're not very good. Yeah.

45:01

No, you're going to want the bigger ones. Actually,

45:03

that's a good model. I mean, in a way,

45:05

though, that is a good description because you

45:08

ask an assistant a question, it's not

45:10

processing, processing, processing. It's, you know, going

45:12

up to the cloud and saying, okay, what's the answer? Yeah.

45:15

There's no reason future versions of those can't do

45:17

that as well, have a little kind of tensor

45:20

processor in there with their little small

45:22

language model, whatever. Yeah. I

45:24

mean, is this something I could answer from the device or do I

45:26

have to go to the cloud anyway? So, it's

45:28

an interesting thought. I just haven't seen it yet. I

45:30

hope not. No, we haven't seen it yet, but they've

45:33

talked. It's coming. This is a thing. This

45:35

is a, and that's why I started to

45:37

say an interim way to save

45:39

money, but not really, because

45:41

honestly, I think this model makes lots of sense. Even

45:44

when the price of cloud processing of

45:46

AI comes down, it will

45:48

still make sense. That's just from a

45:50

latency performance perspective. And privacy. A

45:53

lot of companies won't use chat.

45:57

I'm a Windows guy. I don't really think about privacy. I've

45:59

never even heard of it. No, but you're right.

46:01

You're absolutely right. And this is I mean Google's trying to

46:03

do the same thing Everybody's trying to

46:05

create these new small models. It'll fit on the device Yeah,

46:08

yeah, it's interesting that this is a

46:10

Microsoft product not a open

46:13

AI product is from Microsoft research

46:17

I guess they're doing their own stuff Everyone

46:20

is yeah. Yeah, so I can raise no

46:22

choice about it But well tomorrow because my

46:25

call comes up when sorry

46:27

because Microsoft, you know, basically owns

46:29

open AI, right? Well,

46:32

you know, I work. I mean honestly but

46:34

and just with an ear toward the CMA

46:36

and the FTC Yeah, no, they don't own

46:38

them. I let's be very clear No

46:44

ownership stay Everything's

46:46

fine. You know, you make uncle sat you

46:49

mad. Yeah, you know Honestly, I'm either one

46:51

open AI is a teenager who's moved out

46:53

of the house technically you run their lives,

46:55

but you don't actually make decisions for them and You

46:58

don't always like what they do There's also

47:00

probably a certain amount of pride like the

47:02

Microsoft research guys saying hey, wait a minute.

47:04

We can do this Why

47:07

not? You know, yeah,

47:10

okay. So I did I was just gonna say I

47:12

don't know what I don't know how Intel's things gonna

47:14

go down tomorrow but the one thing

47:16

we're always looking for is give me

47:18

examples of You know,

47:20

what how do I what would make my

47:22

mother or some normal human being say? Yeah,

47:26

I need to upgrade my computer You

47:28

know, we're still looking for that Well,

47:32

here's the thing I think it will but it

47:34

won't be the same thing for everybody instead of

47:36

like one killer feature Killer app

47:38

or however you want to say that I think it's

47:40

gonna be a little one to some number for everybody

47:42

It's gonna be little things. So it's gonna be a

47:44

lot of little things. This will make my Video

47:47

editing capabilities a hundred times better ten

47:49

times faster, whatever I be I think

47:52

the pixelates a great example of that

47:54

the video at the the picture editing

47:56

abilities on the pixelate It's incredible because

47:58

of the tensor processor like I've

48:00

tried to, it's very self-contained. I

48:03

have many times needed to do background removal in

48:05

Photoshop. I've done this for many, many years. And

48:07

they've had tools for many, many years. And

48:09

they have to do a bunch of edge editing

48:12

work that you do manually and you screw up

48:15

and you get into the thing you try not to delete

48:17

and it takes a long time. And then

48:19

I walk up to a pixel with my fumble

48:21

fingers and I can remove a Volkswagen from the

48:24

back of the picture even though

48:26

it's interspersed behind people's limbs and things

48:28

and it looks great. And

48:31

that's the promise of AI. That's

48:34

incredible. And if you put that

48:36

kind of, clip chat might be the thing, friend.

48:39

Like, clip chat might just be the thing where

48:41

look at this on a Surface PC with an

48:43

NPU, how quick it is and how simple it

48:45

is to do that and they're like, okay, I

48:47

want one of those. Yeah,

48:50

you're going to have a CPU, a better

48:52

GPU, an NPU on

48:54

a laptop and have the ability to, video's

48:56

a great example because it hits on so

48:58

many different things and just

49:00

take the processing off of the CPU

49:02

where you can and battery life

49:04

is going to be better and then just what you

49:06

can do with it is going to be amazing. Well,

49:09

the boss got her Surface Studio laptop. Oh, good. And

49:12

put the CAD program on it that does

49:14

the real-time analysis of cloth behavior when it

49:16

actually, and she's using the pen and grabbing

49:18

a corner of her shirt on an avatar

49:21

and doing it and showing how it pulls

49:23

back to shape. Oh my goodness. That's amazing.

49:25

Wow. It was stunningly fast.

49:27

It just looks natural. That's awesome. Okay, I'm

49:29

glad to hear that. And

49:32

she's like, now let me show you this different

49:34

cloth and you can see the behavior change, just

49:36

the type of cloth. We

49:38

are living in very interesting times, I have to

49:40

say. We really are. Yep.

49:44

Yeah. It's funny because for

49:46

a while, like the last three or four years,

49:48

I felt that the industry is kind of stagnated.

49:52

And in fact, the best thing they could come up

49:54

with was VR and AR and that's not really

49:56

a problem. And you could just tell this wasn't it.

49:58

Yeah. No, it's very

50:01

pandemic escapist, right? Yeah. Right.

50:03

But anyway is like, holy cow. And

50:08

the things they're doing now, it's

50:11

amazing. And it literally, you

50:13

gotta remember, it's been under a year,

50:15

well, just over a year now, since

50:17

the thing that happened with OpenAI and

50:19

checks before. By accident. And

50:22

Microsoft internally saying, yep, let's

50:25

do everything different. Wow.

50:27

And obviously that's what

50:29

the... Yeah, I mean, that's the LLM side. I

50:32

would also say, mid journey was

50:34

already doing its thing like the visual manipulation

50:36

had been going on for a few years.

50:39

And a lot

50:41

of stuff we just described with clip chat and so

50:43

forth is in that class. But

50:46

this is the tree falls in the woods and

50:48

no one hears it kind of a problem. Like,

50:50

so in other words, like the Apple came out

50:52

with the GUI and the Mac and it reached

50:54

a certain audience. But I'm not saying

50:56

it's innovative, but it took Microsoft

50:58

to do this at scale for

51:01

this to kind of reach the masses. And

51:03

the end result was the internet

51:05

and Windows 95 and now we

51:07

all need a new computer. The

51:10

hope is that AI can do this again.

51:12

Like I said, I don't think right now we have that thing.

51:14

I can't point to anything and say, this is it. But

51:17

maybe a year from now we'll have that. It's also that

51:19

hundred little differences that eventually it's like,

51:22

if you didn't have this, everything's harder. The heart of the

51:24

problem, of course, is that a lot of what we're doing,

51:26

as you pointed out, is in the cloud. So

51:28

people aren't yet seeing a need to do it locally.

51:31

But those things will come. Well,

51:34

I mean, look, we've all sat there and

51:36

waited, right? Well, it's answer some stupid question.

51:39

What if it could do that like faster?

51:41

Like both my iPhone and the Pixel have

51:43

NPUs. You

51:46

know, and the other part of us

51:48

is eventually the cloud lost leader's end,

51:50

right? Like eventually we're gonna have to

51:52

start playing for all this free cloud

51:54

compute we've been using. And

51:56

that's- Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And they want to

51:58

get us off that. as quickly as

52:00

possible. Yeah. And

52:02

they have an alternative product and they can raise the price,

52:05

it'll be easier. You know,

52:07

I'm paying 20 bucks a month for chat GPT. Did

52:10

I show you the custom

52:12

GPTs I wrote? I think I might have showed you

52:14

this. So

52:16

right now the advent of code coding challenge

52:19

is going on. Yeah, I saw you doing

52:21

that. That's a better advent calendar probably for

52:23

my brain than with me. I

52:25

think you should do those. I think those together. Together. There

52:28

you go. I think you should open a door

52:30

and do a coding problem. I think every time you succeed

52:32

at a coding challenge you drink one of the little... Maybe

52:34

okay. But I've been using this

52:37

common list, because I'm writing in the common list,

52:39

but I've been using this common list expert I

52:42

wrote in

52:44

chat GPT. It has replaced

52:46

all the web searching I

52:48

used to do because I put in

52:50

all of the books. Because

52:54

Ebelio, did you build tracking into it and advertisers

52:56

because you did? No, they did. I feel like

52:58

they're getting the full search. No, but let me

53:01

show you. There is an under down here under

53:03

additional settings. It says, you

53:05

want to use the conversational data in your GPT

53:07

to improve our models? Sure. And

53:10

it's hidden away, by the way, that little checkbox.

53:12

Below the fold. Yeah, below the fold. But

53:14

I put all these list books because they're

53:16

all open now, public domain. Yeah, I read

53:19

it. I remember. And this, yeah, I showed

53:21

you this. It's been incredible. You know,

53:23

I can't remember all... Yeah, it's really neat. I

53:25

forgot how to do a loop. And

53:27

it's, I mean, admittedly, it's not super

53:30

fast, but boy, it generates

53:32

code I can use if I want to. Or more

53:34

importantly, I can say, oh, yeah, I get it now.

53:36

I remember that. This has

53:38

saved me huge amounts of time. I mean,

53:41

but you don't find doogling

53:43

like stock overflow is sufficient? I'm curious

53:45

because... No. And this is

53:47

what I like about these custom GPTs. I told

53:49

it, and you can say this, it's an option. Please

53:52

don't go search the web. Don't

53:55

make up anything. Only give me

53:57

stuff from this 10 foot shelf that I gave you of...

54:00

of classic Linux or list books.

54:02

So every answer I've gotten so

54:04

far has been right on. Or

54:07

it says, I don't know.

54:09

It has yet to say I don't

54:11

know because I gave it so much

54:13

content. Yeah, right. It's a very finite

54:16

topic. And this has been the problem

54:18

with these things, right? Is that it tries to make

54:20

stuff up when it's trying to answer. This is a

54:22

good use of AI. Totally.

54:25

You know what it is,

54:27

Leo? It's the expert system

54:29

we were promised. It's an

54:31

expert system. Exactly. And

54:35

it's fantastic. Which we

54:37

were supposed to build with Lisp, as I recall. Yes,

54:39

that's right. That's why it's good. Of

54:42

course. In fact, one of the books

54:44

I have in my configuration is a

54:46

classic Paradigms

54:48

of Artificial Intelligence Programming by

54:50

Peter Norvig, who is now

54:52

at Google. But it's a

54:54

classic, which he released into

54:56

open source a short while ago. So

54:59

this is like a four-inch thick

55:01

book. This is like one of your books, Paul.

55:04

And the entire contents is

55:06

in there. Admittedly,

55:09

nobody does AI this way. But

55:12

it's in there. It's actually a great book, even if you're

55:14

not doing AI. So Paul Graham's

55:16

stuff, all the classic stuff, including

55:19

that Lisp has the spec

55:22

for the language is online. And

55:24

so the hyper spec, which is the

55:27

actual language spec, is in here too. So

55:29

it's really pretty damn

55:31

cool. You're right. Expert system

55:33

is what we were promised. What

55:36

we were promised. Way back in the day. Let

55:39

me take a little break. You have completed

55:41

that section, I think. Yes? Yes. Because

55:43

I want to talk about our

55:46

honeypot. It's honeypot time on the network.

55:49

Windows Weekly is brought to you

55:51

by Thinxed Canary. Honeypots

55:54

are an age-old idea. In

55:57

fact, I remember talking to Bill

55:59

Cheswick, who... created the first honeypot years

56:01

ago. He had a bad

56:03

guy roaming around on his network and

56:06

he's had the clever idea, what if I created

56:09

something that looks like

56:11

a genuine file share or a

56:14

device or a service, but

56:17

it isn't. It's a trap

56:19

for the bad guy. Now,

56:22

this is, Bill's a pretty sophisticated guy and this

56:24

was a very, in fact, he wrote a whole

56:26

book about his honeypot. I have it on

56:28

my shelf over here. But nowadays, I

56:31

mean, you don't want

56:33

to do that yourself, but you can get a honeypot

56:36

that does the same thing. It's

56:38

called the canary, as in canary in the coal

56:40

mine, from the folks at Thinx. Thinx

56:44

is a great company to do this because they,

56:47

as their business, have trained companies,

56:50

governments, how

56:52

to break into systems. So

56:54

they're white hat, but they know

56:57

their stuff. So they designed something

56:59

that they know will attract the

57:01

wily hacker. And

57:03

this is something that you add, of course, all

57:06

security is a layer. It's layered, right?

57:08

This is something you add to your perimeter

57:10

defenses because we all say, oh, we

57:12

got the best perimeter. Nobody's ever going to get in

57:14

our network, but they keep doing that, don't they? So

57:16

you need a way of knowing, an alarm system.

57:19

So if somebody is inside the network, you'll

57:21

know immediately. And that's what this canary is.

57:25

You can put one or many, I think

57:27

a bank might have hundreds, small operation like

57:29

ours might have a half dozen, sprinkle

57:31

them around. You can make

57:33

them be almost anything. There's a great configuration

57:36

website configuration tool that

57:39

lets you say it's a SCADA device. It's

57:41

a Windows server. It's running IIS. It's

57:45

running Exchange. It's a,

57:47

mine's a NAS, a Synology NAS. The

57:50

MAC addresses makes,

57:52

you know, hook up a write. Everything's

57:54

right. It looks completely real.

57:57

So the hacker goes, oh, hey, I found something.

57:59

Here's a file. share and they open

58:01

it up but you know

58:03

something they don't have the right password they

58:05

nothing happens they move on but you're gonna

58:07

get a note a notification and you're gonna

58:09

get the way you want email text it

58:12

supports a syslog it supports it have an API

58:14

you could write your own custom stuff web hooks

58:17

you can do it via slack you know any way

58:19

you need you'll get that one

58:21

notification that really matters because when you get

58:23

that notification that means somebody has

58:25

attacked a honeypot

58:28

that means there's somebody in your network and believe

58:30

me you want to know on average companies don't know for 91

58:32

days and it's worse

58:35

remember the Marriott hack those

58:37

guys were in there three years before

58:41

Starwood noticed they were in there three

58:43

the damage they do and

58:45

this is how ransomware guys work now by the way they get in

58:47

there they don't trigger the bomb

58:49

right away they investigate they exfiltrate

58:51

so they can blackmail you they

58:53

get all your company data your

58:55

employee data your customer data exfiltrate

58:58

that they can then look at

59:00

where you do all your backups wherever all the shares

59:02

are then they trigger the ransomware and now they've got

59:04

you dead to rights or the folks at Sony picture

59:06

enterprise studios where they where they

59:08

got in there and they just for nine months

59:11

downloaded movies and contracts and all

59:13

this if they'd had a

59:15

canary it would have been different the

59:17

canaries also by the way can create

59:19

files they call them canary tokens an

59:21

unlimited number that you scatter around your

59:23

network things like and we've got a

59:25

few on our network like in payroll

59:27

information dot XLS or employee

59:30

addresses dot PDF or you I

59:32

mean if you want only blatant

59:34

social security numbers not Doc X

59:37

those aren't really documents as soon as

59:40

the bad guy double clicks or tries to

59:42

open them or even tries to download them as

59:44

soon as he touches them you get

59:46

that notification the one that really matters

59:49

you register your canary with

59:51

a hosted console for mod

59:53

monitoring and notifications you can

59:55

tweak the services you could turn on a

59:57

specific IIS version for instance or you can

59:59

turn on Open SSH or a

1:00:01

file share, whatever you want. If

1:00:04

you want to know how well this works, just

1:00:06

ask CISOs who use it. In fact, there's a

1:00:08

whole page, canary.tools.love,

1:00:12

of people you'll know, well-known

1:00:14

CISOs saying this is a

1:00:17

must, you gotta have this. Customers in

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all seven continents use

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the things to canaries and love

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them. And the best part is you deploy your birds

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quiet until the

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worst happens to somebody in your network and you'll know

1:00:33

right away. How much? Well, I'll give you

1:00:35

an example. Again, it depends on how big your operation

1:00:37

is and where you want to stow these guys. canary.tools.twit's

1:00:41

the place to go. $7,500

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a year gets you five of them. And

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of course the more you get the less it costs.

1:00:50

You get your own hosted console, you get upgrades, you

1:00:52

get support, you get maintenance, I mean really good. They

1:00:54

look like an external USB drive, which means you can

1:00:56

put them all over your operation,

1:00:58

nobody will even know they're there. Well,

1:01:01

one more thing. When you go to

1:01:03

canary.tools.twit, use

1:01:05

the offer code twit in the how did you hear about

1:01:07

us box, that gets you 10% off,

1:01:11

no matter how many canaries you

1:01:13

get, for life, forever. That's

1:01:17

a good deal. But to make it

1:01:19

even better, because I know maybe this is the first

1:01:21

you've heard of it, maybe you're skeptical, they

1:01:23

have a 60-day, two-month, money-back

1:01:25

guarantee for a full refund. So you have two

1:01:27

months to decide if this is going to be something

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you want. I have

1:01:32

to tell you, we've been advertising for

1:01:34

this for almost a decade, I think now. They

1:01:36

have never once had somebody say, I want my

1:01:38

money back. It's never

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been claimed, because these are great.

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You will want one. canary.tools.twit, offer

1:01:46

code twit in the how did you hear about us box,

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the thinkst canary, let

1:01:51

it be your canary in the coal mine of

1:01:55

your operation. Back to

1:01:57

Windows Weekly, Paul Thoraut, Richard

1:01:59

Campbell, and we

1:02:01

move on from the insider program

1:02:05

another shot for me to the

1:02:08

darkness Leo to

1:02:14

antitrust oh

1:02:17

yes I can't believe they're investigating open

1:02:19

AI I can't I'm just

1:02:21

happy we were talking a trust and not saying

1:02:23

Blizzard even once oh hello

1:02:25

yeah that's progress

1:02:28

well yeah

1:02:31

unfortunately that's not over yet either but yeah

1:02:34

so the UK CMA and now

1:02:37

the FTC have both said that

1:02:39

they're investigating this special relationship that

1:02:41

open AI has with Microsoft this

1:02:44

ownership without ownership the you know

1:02:46

the company that Microsoft could

1:02:49

never have required because of antitrust

1:02:51

concerns they

1:02:54

have sort of acquired but

1:02:56

not really to be fair

1:02:59

they're looking into it this is not an

1:03:01

they have enough open official now hang

1:03:03

right just looking into it the check in

1:03:05

this is this is public

1:03:07

public political pressure right should look into

1:03:10

this right I mean I

1:03:12

think the structure the deal was pretty straightforward

1:03:14

they were gonna the maximum they get is

1:03:16

49% which they don't have because not

1:03:19

all the 10 billion has gone through like this

1:03:22

way to go on this but I

1:03:26

just I mean if I put the UK

1:03:28

CMA and the US FTC side-by-side you mean

1:03:31

both the two organizations have made fools

1:03:34

of themselves over the Blizzard acquisition those

1:03:36

two really I mean that's a

1:03:39

weird coincidence let me defend them this is

1:03:43

their job and they should I look at

1:03:45

yes no we look this this came up

1:03:47

during Activision Blizzard it has come up from

1:03:49

time it came up with the

1:03:52

Microsoft Cloud stuff in Europe or the Microsoft

1:03:54

Teams integration in Microsoft 365 yes these

1:03:57

should things should be investigated that doesn't

1:03:59

mean I have come or anyone

1:04:01

has necessarily arrived at a decision.

1:04:03

I'm not saying this is illegal

1:04:05

or anti Competitive or anything

1:04:08

like that, but we this is their job. They

1:04:10

should they do right and I want

1:04:12

them to I Don't want them to do it.

1:04:14

Well, right. Well, and they all that we

1:04:16

can't help you with this whole larger issue of AI

1:04:19

Regulation and how it should be regulated whether it

1:04:21

should be regulated That's right full

1:04:24

speed ahead and that's really almost a

1:04:26

philosophical discussion as much as an

1:04:28

antitrust discussion So Yes,

1:04:32

that's true, right, okay. Yes, but we're

1:04:34

not yeah, we're not here to discuss

1:04:36

philosophy Not

1:04:38

that's the next I'm not so

1:04:41

versus Kierkegaard here. That's not

1:04:43

Google Yeah, Google beat

1:04:45

epic and dramatic fashion in their

1:04:47

antitrust trial over their app store

1:04:49

policies That's why this was

1:04:51

because this is one epic lost You

1:04:54

know, that's a little yeah I've got people

1:04:56

always say that but actually I mean think

1:04:58

they were very big differences and an epic

1:05:01

didn't lose everything with Apple Actually, that's still

1:05:03

not completely decided or may still be opened

1:05:07

The thing is yeah, and there's other things going

1:05:09

on with Apple in their app store, which

1:05:11

we'll get to in a moment, but Everyone

1:05:14

has like a pet kind of a

1:05:16

theory about like why this went down different,

1:05:19

you know, obviously Google was Destroying

1:05:22

evidence, which is hilarious and problematic.

1:05:25

I think somebody said likely criminal

1:05:28

Yeah, I think Tim Sweeney at epic said

1:05:30

yeah Apple just didn't write anything down or

1:05:32

we would have had yeah and that well

1:05:34

So app so apples

1:05:36

monoculture Helps

1:05:38

a little bit. They don't partner as much

1:05:41

and they're much more secret secretive

1:05:45

One was a jury trial and one was

1:05:47

just a bit of a judge and the jury Really

1:05:50

but like epic. Yeah,

1:05:52

but what does that mean? So right so unfortunately You

1:05:55

know this I mean, I I don't want to go too far

1:05:57

down this little rabbit hole But one of the big problems we

1:05:59

have in tech and I would say obviously in

1:06:01

our whole society is this kind

1:06:04

of everything's black and white and people

1:06:06

are running really weird divides and honestly

1:06:08

most things in life are very nuanced,

1:06:10

right? So I hear certain

1:06:13

arguments be made and I can tell which side of the

1:06:15

fence is coming from and it kind of just gets

1:06:17

the bristles going a little bit. The

1:06:20

notion that this is what's been said to me is

1:06:22

that like well a judge understands the law and

1:06:24

these jury, people in the jury were idiots and

1:06:26

it's like no. The judge in

1:06:28

the epic v apple practically

1:06:30

begged epic to introduce more evidence. It

1:06:33

was very clear that they saw huge

1:06:36

problems with apple's behaviors. It's just that they have

1:06:38

to apply it as a kind of a matter

1:06:40

of law and they just didn't make as good

1:06:42

of a case as they did against

1:06:44

google. So you know you live and you learn and obviously

1:06:47

they did better against google. I say

1:06:49

in your article the cases were identical. Is

1:06:51

that fair? I mean if

1:06:53

anything if anything apple's

1:06:55

abuses are more severe because

1:06:58

apple does not allow sideloading,

1:07:00

right? I mean if anything

1:07:02

google can at least make the case like you can put it

1:07:04

on there if you want it. And

1:07:06

epic made the case that yeah but you make

1:07:08

it really hard. Okay fair enough but you can

1:07:10

do it and so yeah they they're literally

1:07:12

identical. I almost feel like

1:07:14

google got in more trouble because they were more

1:07:16

open. They had open source answers. I was just

1:07:18

going to say this so for all of the

1:07:21

evidence destruction the real problem

1:07:23

for google was that

1:07:25

there was too much documentation of them doing

1:07:27

bad things and they have agreements as apple

1:07:29

does by the way with third-party

1:07:32

app makers that are

1:07:34

secret and that are beneficial to that

1:07:36

one company. Companies like netflix and spotify

1:07:38

right they have special deals. The

1:07:42

judge made the point that if

1:07:45

you could do this for spotify why can't

1:07:47

you do it for epic? We're describing exactly the

1:07:49

same kind of arrangement. All that epic wants is

1:07:52

to do what you did do to spotify.

1:07:54

It's a reasonable thing and that

1:07:57

very statement makes one wonder. when

1:08:00

this guy comes back in January, whenever it is, if

1:08:02

he's not going to go right

1:08:05

down this path and say, yeah, you need to

1:08:07

give them what you gave Spotify. Well, the jury

1:08:09

was perfectly aware that he said, go make a

1:08:11

deal. The fact that Google failed to make the

1:08:13

deal. Yeah. Like, what'd you think the jury

1:08:15

was going to do? Well, so here's my theory on

1:08:17

that one. There were, there

1:08:20

was a team of people from both companies that met

1:08:22

originally. Then the two CEOs sat down. There was a

1:08:24

total of, you know, maybe three-ish hours, three, four hours,

1:08:26

whatever it was, of meetings. I'm

1:08:29

positive that Google's general counsel gave

1:08:31

the advice to the executives at

1:08:34

that company that you need

1:08:36

to draw, drag this out as long as you can, because

1:08:39

the changes that are coming to app stores

1:08:41

and the fee structures and the in-app payments

1:08:43

and all that are inevitable, but

1:08:47

you might as well lap this revenue up while you

1:08:49

can. And if you just, if you agree to what

1:08:51

they want, which is what they're going to get eventually,

1:08:55

you'll just cut that money off now. So

1:08:58

what you do is you wait another

1:09:00

quarter or two, or maybe six. It

1:09:02

could be years. I mean, appeal, appeal

1:09:04

again, you know? So that's

1:09:07

my theory. I only have a theory. No, no, I mean,

1:09:09

we don't know, right? We don't have the inside track. We

1:09:11

were in the room, but that's my theory. So

1:09:15

that, and you know, here we go. Now we

1:09:17

have this wonderful precedent and things are going to

1:09:19

happen, but Apple has got problems very much related

1:09:21

to this in the EU.

1:09:23

There's a report in Bloomberg,

1:09:25

which is very reliable with this stuff,

1:09:28

that the EU is going to charge them

1:09:30

with abusing their monopoly and their app store

1:09:33

by basically taking

1:09:35

Spotify's side. In this case, where

1:09:37

Apple's 30% cut

1:09:39

of in-app subscriptions makes it impossible

1:09:41

for them to compete with

1:09:44

Apple Music, which doesn't of course pay those

1:09:46

fees, right? Because it's Apple's

1:09:48

product, right? And of course, and this is a

1:09:51

classic antitrust bundling problem,

1:09:53

right? The same problem

1:09:55

that Microsoft ran into with IE. Well, and that's always going to be

1:09:57

the argument with app stores is if you're going to run the app

1:09:59

store. You can't have rocks on right up store, but

1:10:02

this is you know Amazon does this in their

1:10:04

online store? Yeah, Apple and Google do this in

1:10:06

their online stores and the Apple didn't mean to

1:10:09

make an app store, right? They had to because

1:10:11

the phone was being jailbroken Back

1:10:14

in the day said if you're gonna build apps

1:10:16

for the phone, you're gonna build them in HTML

1:10:18

5 You're gonna build them

1:10:20

for Safari. Yeah, right. I mean we crack the phone

1:10:22

so he had to do something But

1:10:25

that I mean, I'm not putting them off the

1:10:27

hook. They've made billions and billions of dollars on it

1:10:30

But yeah, nobody planned the app store. We just sort

1:10:32

of ran into it doing oh, it makes a lot

1:10:34

of money Okay, let's keep going right Yeah,

1:10:37

there was our emergent forces, but ultimately you

1:10:39

get into a conflict of interest, you

1:10:41

know Shopify Doesn't

1:10:43

have a shop on Shopify

1:10:47

Right. This is I this

1:10:49

is my McDonald's principle You know that

1:10:51

Ray Kroc didn't start McDonald's to make

1:10:53

America fat and unhealthy They

1:10:55

he did it to take advantage of something that was

1:10:57

happening at the time the rise of cars and superhighways

1:10:59

and People were on the go and more and

1:11:01

more people, you know needed to eat on the go and and

1:11:04

it was it was a good idea and a good

1:11:06

business anyway That had you

1:11:08

know, maybe some ramifications that no one

1:11:10

kind of saw coming. I know and

1:11:12

nor can you you have to get?

1:11:14

Yeah places say we need to revise

1:11:16

it Well this notion that we're

1:11:19

gonna create an app store We're gonna lock it down and we're

1:11:21

gonna make it and the point is we're gonna make apps safe

1:11:23

You know, we're not gonna let that was the argument if you

1:11:25

need look at the argument Context

1:11:28

we were having a lot of problem with

1:11:30

bad software, right? I mean they think biggest

1:11:32

stallions of 2008

1:11:34

was you don't download software from the internet.

1:11:37

It'll wreck your machine But

1:11:39

that was but lockdown was

1:11:41

actually in lock-in was a big part of

1:11:43

that strategy And I will just you just

1:11:45

mentioned jobs initially there are baffles initial idea

1:11:48

for apps was web apps They didn't lock

1:11:50

that down at all So,

1:11:53

I mean, you know other than the limitations

1:11:55

of the platform itself, right of a browser,

1:11:57

which is basically in a sandbox Yep,

1:11:59

right But not as

1:12:01

locked down as the current apps are. So it's,

1:12:05

this is going to change. Well, an app at least made

1:12:08

the promise and said, we are going to inspect these apps.

1:12:10

We're going to make sure they're safe. You can trust our

1:12:12

store. That's what our cut is

1:12:14

for paying people to evaluate the software that goes in

1:12:16

it. Yeah. I'm not

1:12:18

saying they did it, but they did say it.

1:12:20

Positive. They didn't do a good job of

1:12:22

it and that all the security you need is built into the

1:12:25

operating system. And you can say that in

1:12:27

Android, at least they didn't even say it. It's like, it's a

1:12:29

store. Good luck. I'm sure they

1:12:31

claimed it at some point, but yeah, yeah. Okay. It's

1:12:34

a store. Yeah. It

1:12:36

is. So, and then also

1:12:38

related to this, EU is also going after

1:12:40

them for NFC. Apparently

1:12:43

only Apple's apps can. Or

1:12:45

they have to, I don't know how that

1:12:47

works exactly, but they're going to force them

1:12:49

to open up NFC to third party. So

1:12:51

they got them. They got them on USB-C.

1:12:53

They can make an open

1:12:55

standard too. Yep. Yep.

1:12:58

And they are, when this is done right,

1:13:00

this is about making it better for the

1:13:03

consumer. Yes. And

1:13:06

they don't always do it right, but in

1:13:08

general, these are good securities. Yeah. It's the

1:13:10

largest companies in the world. Right.

1:13:13

It's marketed that way. It's not always true. Or

1:13:16

it's not always, that's not, you know, this

1:13:18

is one of the other things. Part

1:13:20

of that nuanced view of life, which is

1:13:23

that, I can say over here that Google

1:13:25

makes the best search engine or the best

1:13:27

whatever. And I can also say over here that

1:13:29

Google is a belligerent

1:13:32

monopolist that arms competitors,

1:13:34

partners, developers, and consumers.

1:13:38

Those two things sound like they don't go

1:13:40

together, but they're not mutually exclusive. Sure.

1:13:42

And that's part of the, you know, like I said, real

1:13:44

life looks like, right? Yeah. And

1:13:46

Apple's the same way. I mean, it's, you know, everyone's like, oh,

1:13:48

I love, I like that I got locked in. Like, oh, good

1:13:51

for you. The Matrix is calling.

1:13:53

I enjoy it here in the cloud

1:13:55

I've locked in. In the warm wet

1:13:57

embrace of the Apple Matrix. Great. Well,

1:14:00

there is an advantage to the ecosystem. I see how

1:14:02

it's quite consistent. Of course there is, but there's also

1:14:04

a but in that sense. We

1:14:07

do call it a walled garden, not

1:14:09

a prison. Right, right. Which

1:14:12

is a pleasant way to do this. It's

1:14:15

a pleasant way. The

1:14:17

gate keeps you in as well as keeping

1:14:19

things out, guys. That's that point. Well, and

1:14:21

look what's that... You don't cover it,

1:14:23

but that story with Beeper Mini is a really good example.

1:14:25

This is the Android app that lets you use that advantage.

1:14:28

Well, I don't cover it on Windows Weekly. I mean, it's

1:14:30

not really a... No, it's not

1:14:32

Windows Weekly, it's an Android. Well, that could

1:14:34

have fallen under the antitrust angle. Not

1:14:37

that anyone's looking at that explicitly, but yeah. The

1:14:41

thing I compared Beeper Mini to was Microsoft went to

1:14:43

Apple and said, we've got this thing called cloud gaming,

1:14:45

we'd like to put it on your service. And they

1:14:48

said, nope. People

1:14:51

have to pay for every game that they stream. It's like, well,

1:14:53

that's not the model. No one's buying a game. They're streaming it.

1:14:55

Just like Netflix. Netflix and no problem. Nope,

1:14:57

can't do it. Why? Can't

1:14:59

do it. We're not doing it. And

1:15:02

then Apple quietly changed the terms of their license

1:15:04

agreement for the store to add the stipulation that

1:15:06

game streaming services cannot do this.

1:15:09

It was just the real reason... And

1:15:12

they could cite all these reasons like security and whatever.

1:15:14

It has nothing to do with it. They just wanted

1:15:16

the money. That was the reason. And

1:15:18

they retroactively changed the rules to

1:15:20

explain what they did earlier. So

1:15:23

when you look at something like Xbox cloud

1:15:25

gaming or Amazon Luna, if you

1:15:27

want to play that thing on an iOS or

1:15:29

like an iPhone or an iPad, you

1:15:32

have to use the web app. Because that's

1:15:34

the thing they can't control. So

1:15:36

yeah, don't think they're better, people. Just

1:15:39

as bad. And in some ways, worse. They're

1:15:42

all terrible. You've got to remember, all these companies

1:15:44

are terrible on some level. That's actually the point.

1:15:47

The greatest nuance of all. I'm not sitting here

1:15:49

suggesting Microsoft is awesome. Microsoft is

1:15:51

terrible too. Of course they are. They're too big

1:15:53

not to be terrible. You can't get this big without being terrible.

1:15:56

You know? Amazon. The

1:15:58

sooner lady you're running into somebody. You know

1:16:01

benchmarks for success. You know

1:16:03

I can lead to behavior. That's harmful to the

1:16:06

customer I always you know people will say things

1:16:08

like why don't you say in Google? I can't

1:16:10

trust Google I don't know whatever you know pick

1:16:12

your poison right. I mean you're you're you're compromising

1:16:14

in Some way every

1:16:16

day with whatever you use sure you can't

1:16:19

really I mean you can I suppose a

1:16:21

little bit But for the 99%

1:16:24

of us that aren't using Linux and all open source software, etc

1:16:27

You know you kind of can't escape this It's

1:16:30

you just you've either

1:16:33

educated or not have made your decisions about where you're

1:16:35

gonna compromise Yeah, I think we started this conversation with

1:16:37

it's all about finding the workarounds right. It's like What

1:16:39

are the work around you can live with? Yeah,

1:16:42

and I bet if we go through all

1:16:44

of the Twitter podcasts about Google Android iPhone

1:16:46

Whatever a lot of the advice

1:16:48

a lot of the discussion will be literally

1:16:51

around that topic It's the yeah, you know

1:16:53

something something's not good. How do we make

1:16:55

that thing better? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah No,

1:16:57

you know you know we don't like to promote

1:16:59

the negative aspect of it But in but

1:17:01

this is the reality where you know we're

1:17:03

trying to find solutions here. You know Not

1:17:07

just complaining. It's like well. Okay. This is the problem now.

1:17:09

How do we fix it release work around? Anyway,

1:17:13

I'm just complaining. I don't have any solutions. I

1:17:15

just complain but Anyway

1:17:17

alright, so that's the yeah, that's everything

1:17:20

for antitrust, and I don't

1:17:22

really have any Microsoft AI stuff It's just some

1:17:24

interesting AI stuff has happened. I'm actually do one

1:17:26

AI thing for Microsoft. Yeah, which is that they

1:17:28

reached this agreement with the America

1:17:32

I have to read this conflict AFL

1:17:34

CIO the American Federation of Labor and

1:17:36

Congress and industrial organization I'm

1:17:39

sorry you're talking one of the largest

1:17:41

union groups. This is the worst band

1:17:43

name since Or

1:17:48

Emerson like Palmer and was it there was

1:17:50

and There was one guy out

1:17:52

extra at one point who I can't remember that cozy no

1:17:54

Powell. I don't remember Anyway,

1:17:57

yeah, they represent about twelve point five million

1:17:59

workers The

2:08:03

holidays start here at Kroger with a

2:08:05

variety of options to celebrate traditions old

2:08:07

and new. You could do

2:08:09

a classic herb roasted turkey or spice it up

2:08:11

and make turkey tacos. Serve up

2:08:14

a go-to shrimp cocktail or use

2:08:16

Simple Truth Wild Caught Shrimp for

2:08:18

your first Cajun risotto. Make

2:08:20

creamy mac and cheese or a spinach

2:08:22

artichoke fondue from our selection of Murray's

2:08:24

cheese. No matter how you shop, Kroger

2:08:27

has all the freshest ingredients to embrace

2:08:29

all your holiday traditions. Kroger. At

2:35:34

Kroger, we know the minute a tomato

2:35:36

is picked, the fresh timer starts. The

2:35:38

sooner we get our produce to you,

2:35:40

the fresher it is. That's why we've

2:35:43

shortened the time from harvest to home

2:35:45

for our tasty tomatoes, strawberries, and salads.

2:35:48

So no matter how you shop, you

2:35:50

have more time with your fresh produce.

2:35:52

Kroger, fresh for everyone. We've locked

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in low prices to help you save big

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store wide. Look for the locked in low

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prices tags and enjoy extra savings throughout the

2:36:00

store. Kroger, fresh for

2:36:02

everyone.