0:00

Everybody listen up. I got mega mega huge

0:02

news me it or live his head back

0:04

out on the road. It's right. Join me

0:06

in the crew. Clay new gum cow yeah

0:08

he spends is going to be there at

0:10

fill the engineers good be there. Meteor

0:13

Live had a back out. Now when

0:15

you get every ticket or guy every

0:17

take you by you get a signed

0:19

copy of our new meat eater outdoor

0:22

cookbook. This tour is celebrating the release

0:24

of the book. Buy. A

0:26

ticket, Get a signed copy meter,

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outdoor cookbook, wild game recipes for

0:30

the grill, smoker camp stove and

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can't fire which I'll point out

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as a thirty eight dollar value.

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Here's what we're going to go:

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April Twenty third: The Maze, The

0:41

Art Center and Mesa, Arizona. April

0:43

Twenty four: The Bell Boy Theater

0:45

in San Diego. April twenty five.

0:48

The Growth in Anaheim, California. April

0:50

Twenty seven. The Crest Theater in

0:52

Sacramento. April twenty nine. The Union

0:54

in Salt Lake City. April. Thirty,

0:56

The Egyptian in Boise, May

0:58

One, the Wilma Theater in

1:01

Missoula, made to the Bing

1:03

Crosby Theater in Spokane, Washington

1:05

May for Revolution Hall in

1:08

Portland, Oregon and May five

1:10

the last day of the

1:12

To or Paint A Just

1:15

Theater in Tacoma, Washington. For

1:17

tickets a more information, visit

1:19

the events page at The

1:22

Meat eater.com Hope to see

1:24

you at the show. Welcome

1:28

to the Wired to Hunt

1:30

Podcast Your guide to the

1:32

White Tail Woods presented by

1:35

First Light, creating proven versatile

1:37

hunting apparel for the stand,

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saddle or blind. First Light,

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go farther, stay longer. And

1:44

now your host Mark Kenyan

1:46

Welcome to the Wired to

1:49

Hunt Podcast! This weekend's show,

1:51

we're discussing the increasing challenges

1:53

of finding free hunting permission

1:56

in these days. In. Specific

1:58

strategies for still. The able

2:00

to gain that access with our

2:02

guest Spencer Neuharth. Or

2:12

right? Welcome back to the Wire

2:14

Tongue Podcast Brought to you by

2:16

first Wife and their Camel for

2:18

Conservation Initiative. Gem of Conservation is

2:20

a program and with a portion

2:22

of ever sale of First like

2:24

Specter, Camel Pattern Forces or sales

2:27

goes to support the National Fear

2:29

Association. Plummet and I love our

2:31

topic and I guess today on

2:33

the podcast as are talking about

2:35

Access. We started this whole mini

2:37

series last week. the thought about

2:39

leases and out. Today we are

2:41

talking about getting Hunting for Mission

2:43

Free permission access to place to

2:45

hunt regardless of how much money

2:48

and what kind of resources you

2:50

have available to you and I

2:52

think this is obviously very very

2:54

important. Topic is something that I

2:56

have been working on for a

2:58

whole lot of years trying to

3:00

figure out how to do this.

3:03

And I think the general consensus the

3:05

most people are reaching out that it's

3:07

getting harder. On. You

3:10

know when I started really getting into the

3:12

city in twenty years ago the that trying

3:14

to gain permissions myself it was a lot

3:16

harder than than a was fifty years ago.

3:18

And that trend continues as I think.

3:21

You know just natural things are happening.

3:24

There is high demand for place to

3:26

hunt. And. When there's more people

3:28

all trying to find places to hunt in those. Increasingly

3:31

rare have been under valve. Landscapes

3:34

are you can hunt so demand

3:36

is going up, Supply is going

3:38

down right. You're gonna have. Challenges.

3:41

They're so that is

3:43

inevitable. In our world

3:45

and this is not going to

3:47

change likely so we need to

3:49

continue to find ways to a

3:51

better this. Get creative with this.

3:53

Have a plan in place. To.

3:55

Make sure that we can still have

3:58

locations to hunt. course. We've got public

4:00

land which we're so fortunate to have

4:02

access to and that continues to be

4:05

an incredible resource for us deer hunters

4:07

and any kind of fun or or

4:09

angler. But man still,

4:11

there's something to be said about finding

4:13

a piece of private land. they even

4:15

get access to. You.

4:18

Can you can stumble onto or

4:20

fine or worked really hard to

4:22

get access to some great stuff

4:24

in this kind of were sold?

4:26

That's the plan is we're going

4:28

to break down specific strategies specific.

4:31

Tactics. Process. As

4:33

you can put in place to

4:35

game hunting. Permission and my guest

4:37

is my pale and permission extraordinary.

4:39

Spencer Neuharth You might remember him

4:42

as a long time co host

4:44

of mine and and he ran

4:46

are Rough Fresh Radio series for

4:48

many many years here Wired Hide.

4:50

He now hosts the Meat Eater

4:52

Trivia podcast. So he still in

4:54

the Meter universe. He still in

4:57

my world or would seven get

4:59

to hear from them as often

5:01

hear on Wired? Hunt! So excited

5:03

to him back! And he's a guy

5:05

who's test specialized in getting permission. And.

5:08

Doing a number of different ways, so

5:11

that's what I'm sad about in this

5:13

particular chat because he can give us

5:15

really good ideas on you know, how

5:17

to assess the quality of a piece

5:19

of property. As as whether

5:21

or not used to be interest in

5:23

trying get access to and he's got

5:26

ideas about how to get permission by

5:28

knocking on doors. He's done it by

5:30

phone calls, he's done through social media

5:32

and he's done it through letter writing

5:34

campaigns. Excellent! So we discuss all of

5:36

those different approaches. So new and no

5:38

matter if you are a people person

5:40

or not is you are terrified by

5:42

the idea of going up to a

5:44

stranger. Or if you are excited by

5:47

that idea. There's going to

5:49

be a tactic. That. You can

5:51

try. Coming. Out this chat. So

5:54

that's the plan. I.

5:57

Want to give you one quick heads up on something?

5:59

and then I want give you a few of my

6:01

own thoughts on this before we get spends on the

6:03

line. Number One. Quick. Kind of public

6:05

service announcement. Ah, Last.

6:07

Accounting no one this was I guess would have

6:10

been. Really? This winter? maybe. We.

6:13

Dropped our first new Wired To

6:15

Hunt merchandise in years. I had

6:17

a new hat that's being sold

6:19

on The Mediator store is got

6:21

a really cool assuming were insists

6:23

on but there's really cool dear

6:25

illustration across the front and says

6:28

wired her on side over there.

6:31

More. Almost done or almost completely sold

6:33

out of you wanna get one? The

6:35

last handful of wired hunt hats on

6:37

this run had an over to the

6:39

Meat year.com or there's actually a link

6:41

in the description for this podcast. They

6:43

see conflicts that I do not know

6:45

for. Can have another run of these.

6:48

I do not know if there will be more. Ah,

6:51

if there will be different colors next time, if

6:53

there will be different styles? No idea yet. I

6:55

think it's it's. probably gonna be determined on whether

6:57

or not we sell are these which seems like

6:59

we're going to if that's the case. Hopefully.

7:02

They'll be support ah to to get

7:04

a new stuff but I did these

7:06

while they last because I just don't

7:08

know what's coming next. So that's the

7:10

the first heads up. Wired on hats

7:12

are nearing zero. Check them out now!

7:14

Ah, I'm. And that's I

7:17

guess that's really it. There are two

7:19

other things I suppose worth noting. The

7:21

Mediator Live Tour. Is.

7:25

Depending. On when you're listening to this, I

7:27

think it's kicking off very very soon. So if

7:29

you are in the West part of the United

7:31

States, that's where the Media Live Tour is this

7:34

year. And over to the me to.com

7:36

to get more details on that. And. Then

7:38

finally there's a new thing that

7:40

Meares launching com meet either experiences.

7:42

This is going to be an

7:44

opportunity for folks to join the

7:46

meter crew. People like Steve. Yannis.

7:49

Tell. Myself. And Tony

7:52

than ah on fishing or

7:54

hunting trips. Out

7:56

A let's get know the details over on the

7:58

website. Is that something that you. Intrigued by.

8:00

Ah, but that's a thing midi

8:03

their experiences, that is. Available.

8:05

To to learn all about at

8:07

the media.com as well. So that

8:10

is it for our housekeeping. And.

8:12

Updates Now let's talk a little bit

8:14

about. Permission. I just

8:16

want to give you a few of my thoughts. You're.

8:19

From my own experience before he gets spencer on

8:21

him. And I think the

8:23

biggest thing and and we do talk about this

8:25

little bit but I want to emphasize a here

8:28

at the beginning is that getting hunting permission and

8:30

twenty twenty Four or twenty twenty five, Twenty six,

8:32

twenty seven was of whatever it is that you're

8:34

listening to. This. Is. Really

8:37

a numbers game. It's.

8:40

Going to come down to how much. Effort

8:42

are you willing to put into this? How

8:45

hard are you willing to work at this?

8:47

How many attempts are you going to have?

8:49

right? How many swings at the ball? If

8:51

you wanna hit home runs great, you're knocking

8:53

him every time you knocking him while every

8:56

ten times. Probably right. You need to try

8:58

it over and over and over and over

9:00

again and not be disheartened when you get

9:02

a bunch of knows, because you are going

9:05

to get a lot of knows. whether you're

9:07

knocking on doors, whether you're sending letters, whether

9:09

you are. You're asking friends and

9:11

family members in random conversations whenever you

9:13

find out somebody owns land, right. Were.

9:16

Asking a lot. If you think

9:18

about it, Asking for someone to

9:21

let us. Maybe. We're

9:23

random strangers. Let us have. Three.

9:26

Hunting access to their hard

9:28

earned land. To. A resource

9:30

that they've put sweat money,

9:33

Tears into maybe. And then. Expect.

9:36

Your hate we distinguish to be a walk out

9:38

there and and use their thing. That's.

9:40

A big ask so we should not

9:42

be surprised that people are hesitant that

9:44

people are on serve. The. People

9:47

as reservations about that. Or.

9:49

The fact that they just don't want using their stuff when

9:51

they go. The people they know that are to do. So.

9:54

It were taken a flyer like this

9:56

is a moonshot rails the gate. Don't

9:58

be surprised when you're moon. That does

10:00

not land on the moon everytime. Okay, That's.

10:02

A big thing. I think

10:05

if we go into this with a wrong

10:07

expectations we can be beat down quickly. Get

10:09

depressed by it and quit. That

10:12

will not lead to getting hunting permission.

10:14

You. Gotta go into this knowing it's going to

10:17

ninety six percent nose and every time you

10:19

get well as knows. Rather than

10:21

looking at that as ah crap, this sucks

10:23

I got another know. I

10:25

would encourage you to instead every time you

10:27

get a know. They. Do

10:29

yourself I write. I'm one

10:32

step closer to that yes such as

10:34

another know off the list or plus

10:36

are getting closer slacks and that's good

10:38

news because you are closer to what

10:40

you want. Cheap

10:42

and mind. Throughout this process.

10:45

Number Two, And. Again, the

10:48

something Spencer brings up and Spencer use

10:50

this to his advantage as well. But

10:52

I want to. Kind

10:54

of bomb sign off on I

10:56

guess as as someone who agrees

10:58

with him and that is the

11:00

fact that he owed you should

11:02

always be looking for hunting permission.

11:05

By. That I mean like. Have. This

11:08

thing going on the backs your mind. In.

11:10

Which you are always. Lighting.

11:13

Up and pay attention when you happen

11:15

to hear. Of an opportunity.

11:17

When. You happen to hear of someone who

11:19

owns land when he happened to hear someone

11:22

who has great Aunt who lives on eighty

11:24

acres. Ah, I'm when you happen to hear

11:26

of a coworker who's mentions the fact that

11:28

they grew up on a family farm. but

11:30

you know now nobody goes back there anymore

11:32

when you hear anything like that. When.

11:35

You hear the your neighbor just bought a. New.

11:38

House on ten acres and you know they don't have. Any.

11:41

Time There's a possibility, like you hear of

11:43

land in the Sounds ago, maybe it's not

11:45

getting hundred or may be used. I know

11:47

it's worth asking. It's

11:49

worth having conversations, it's always were thrown

11:51

out there. He also your body like

11:53

a said but he buys new house

11:55

suntan acres back in the woods. It

11:58

as a man is awesome. Yeah,

12:00

been seen dear behind the house yada yada

12:02

yada and then all of sudden you think

12:04

it's and. Ten. Acres

12:06

that's not nice and. Citizen.

12:09

On. Jan. Her. Hey.

12:11

Man you know you know I'm in a hunting

12:13

at last two spots past year. What do you

12:16

think but me ever going out there and bow

12:18

hunting in Alex you weekends. If.

12:20

You'd do those little things you

12:22

ask those questions throughout a year

12:24

to lots of different people. In.

12:26

Natural ways when they naturally come up.

12:29

The. Ask and is constantly asking around.

12:31

Is your aunts and uncles and grandparents

12:33

and bodies all know the are always

12:35

asking for folks a hazard. Maybe.

12:37

Chance I can hunt there is. they all know that. Then.

12:40

When opportunists do rise, when your Aunt.

12:43

Hears. From her friends ago. Yeah, I used to

12:45

have guys a hundred my spot but they they were

12:47

jerks and I kicked him off of a sudden. you're

12:49

asking the know I know that. Shows.

12:52

Always looking for places that sounds like this place is

12:54

open. I said get a hold of my nephew Joe

12:56

and let him know it. Makes.

12:58

Or the world knows of your intent

13:00

in your interest. If you do that,

13:03

It's. Amazing how the world will present

13:05

you opportunities. right? So

13:07

those are two big things I want to

13:09

think about. This is a numbers game and

13:11

you always need to be like sending out.

13:14

Your. Hopes and desires and items Hunting access

13:17

because you never know when it's gonna work

13:19

with just thrown spaghetti the wall and you

13:21

never know when it's gonna stick or what's

13:23

going to stick. But nothing more steak is.

13:26

You're not constantly throwing. Spaghetti.

13:29

So there's era. Unique.

13:31

Permissions analogy of the day

13:33

on. Finally, I.

13:36

Would suggest you think about ways

13:38

that you can provide value to

13:41

land on us. Because. right?

13:43

We know that landowners can provide us

13:45

value. Because. We don't own

13:47

land and we're looking to use their land

13:49

so they have something we want. What are

13:51

we have that they might want? What can

13:53

we provide? How can we give back to

13:55

them just as a Missouri were asking a

13:57

lot of them? It's It's reasonable to think

13:59

that. My ask something of us. My

14:02

buddy.there and as a great program and

14:04

a great example of of one way

14:07

to think about this so so dog

14:09

started this thing called sharing the land

14:11

in which he is trying to connect.

14:14

landowners, Who. Have worked

14:16

the they want done conservation words, habitat,

14:18

word, farm products that they need done

14:20

on their land. He. Wants to connect

14:22

people like that who have a demand for

14:24

help. With. Access

14:27

seekers hunters are or a be else

14:29

wants access to private land a hundred

14:31

or faces on the that. He's.

14:33

Got those people who need land and

14:35

who have able bodies in the willingness

14:38

to help they send Help connect these

14:40

folks and find ways that can find

14:42

when when situations where he'll somebody who

14:44

wants permission to haunt can go and

14:46

be connected with a landowner in this

14:49

land on or needs help turn on

14:51

fences or planting cover crops or removing

14:53

invasive species something like that he needs.

14:56

Workers he needs helpers And then you

14:58

can find this hunter who wants to

15:00

hunt their land and in exchange. For.

15:03

Doing so that worked for for

15:05

putting an investment of conservation efforts

15:07

by helping on the landscape use

15:09

and get access to hunt it.

15:13

Really cool programs and learn more about

15:15

it's sharing the land.com but if you

15:17

know if the pieces of permission the

15:19

dog has less than a site was

15:21

he does have been a land owners

15:23

who are looking for people. Now if

15:25

there's not something they are near area

15:27

think about taking that same concepts in

15:29

that same idea and in applying it

15:31

wherever you live. So think about people

15:33

may be the you know. Maybe.

15:36

Do some farmers who need some help

15:38

or who you know are pressed for

15:41

time or who you know. Have

15:43

talked about this problem and that problem this prodded

15:45

They wish they could get you. Want.

15:47

To offer services was they hate. You.

15:50

Know I've been doing a lot of work on now

15:52

I'm not. understanding. Soil.

15:56

Health or I've been. I've

15:58

arabs have a landscaper in high school or

16:00

college and pretty good dig holes. Whatever it

16:02

is that you can offer up. Offer

16:05

to help. Offered. Do work on

16:07

the farm, Offered. To. Take

16:09

something off their plate that they don't

16:11

want honor. And. Demonstrate that you can

16:14

bring value to the table, as you can

16:16

do that. You. Are much more likely

16:18

to be able to get hunting access

16:20

and permission. Adding. To be more

16:22

invested in the process to an and and

16:24

maybe even appreciated all that much more. That.

16:28

Is my final thought you I'll give

16:30

you a couple more suggestions as you

16:32

want to dive deeper into this topic

16:34

of gaining and finding hunting access You

16:36

know number one in Go Back and

16:38

listen to last week's episode in which

16:40

we focused on that the kind of

16:42

pay to haunt. Way.

16:45

Which is on the least. Paid.

16:47

Or eleven. They. Are saying now

16:49

that are becoming more and more of an

16:51

option people are turning to an i want

16:53

to make sure we'd talk about how do

16:56

that the smartest way So that's disgusting. Well

16:58

I go listen to Ah. We also have

17:00

a lot of articles on the Mediator website

17:02

about this topic and I want to give

17:04

you three specific examples you go look up

17:06

now and read if you want more reading.

17:08

So got one from Tony. Called.

17:11

Why Spring is the best time to

17:13

get deer hunting? Permission. You.

17:15

Can go search that title? I'm fine then read. It. Another

17:18

one by me. Titled how

17:20

to Find hunting Permission that breaks

17:22

down my personal process another one

17:24

by Tony called Tips for finding

17:26

a fresh whitetail hunting spot right

17:29

now. So. Check

17:31

those three out! He wants more

17:33

on this topic, but I'm worried

17:35

you. I know that. Any

17:38

googleganger search singer had not over

17:40

your web browser right now. We

17:43

have a very thorough, in depth

17:45

discussion of our house again, deer

17:47

hunting, permission and twenty twenty four

17:50

and and these changing times moving

17:52

forward and my guests Spencer Neuharth

17:54

gonna help us take of me.

18:04

right? Back. At me again.

18:07

For the first time I think since

18:09

he walked out on me like a.

18:11

Like a groom. Less that the that

18:14

list of the I'll buy the bride

18:16

just walk around my life. Spencer Neuharth

18:18

Welcome back the Show Buddy! Thanks.

18:20

Marcus, it's fine, I use his ass

18:22

back more often. it's It's not as

18:24

though I'm like turning down invites to

18:26

to be unwired islands. I feel like

18:28

you walked out on me as well.

18:31

Oligos x I've tried their be kinda

18:33

this and then it just hasn't happened.

18:36

While. I prefer the way that I positioned it

18:38

aka the first time. But

18:41

will will just move for from his

18:43

your water under the bridge not ran

18:45

over spilt milk or hum I am

18:47

I'm glad to be to chat with

18:49

a again and talking why tales which.

18:52

Do. You get to do very often their

18:54

Hq or you can hide that party.

18:57

Yeah. No, it's it's sides uncommon

18:59

to get to talk Why? tales

19:01

in when I am talking white

19:03

his ability feels like I in

19:05

defense of white tales and whitetail

19:08

honors. Of folks

19:10

in this studio tend to

19:12

have a very prickly attitude

19:14

about ah hunters who sit

19:16

in three cents or I

19:18

like to haunt America's most

19:20

popular big game animal so

19:22

this this will be a

19:24

pleasant. This be

19:26

a pleasant. Podcast when it comes to why

19:28

tales and and different the what I'm used to

19:31

lately. About a year

19:33

and their your and the trust street right

19:35

now you're insane A license yes this is

19:37

says he over there people are harm. So.

19:40

The that they were talking about today and they

19:42

we've talked about for couple way so that it

19:44

is up access. An.

19:48

Hour with you've experienced this but it seems

19:50

like in over the last. Will. Not

19:52

even just. The. Last twenty

19:54

thirty years, Demons. Last Five years. It seems

19:56

like it's been getting even more difficult to

19:58

get access to places. This is a common

20:00

thing. This is not news to anyone people

20:02

for talking about this and complaining about this

20:04

for. Quite. Awhile. Ah, but

20:07

today I want to specifically focused

20:09

on. Permission. Like

20:11

free permission we've talked about. Li says he

20:13

talked about some other things but today it's

20:15

it's can you still get free permission. Which

20:18

seems like some people are starting say know

20:20

like that's a relic of the past or

20:22

alyssa Lot of folks are starting to not

20:24

want to do the things maybe that are

20:26

required to get set. Ah but

20:28

year old guy that I know who.

20:31

Still, Seems to be you know, ride

20:33

that horse. So I guess I wanted. Press

20:36

you on some details. Rama today. Ah,

20:38

I'm are you game for that? Yeah,

20:41

happy to share it some I would.

20:43

As far as if I were to

20:45

identify the strength of myself as a

20:47

white Eleanor, I think I'm finding places

20:50

to haunts. Ah is is one of

20:52

them. They are yeah

20:54

ah I see like watching you from afar.

20:56

I would agree with that as best thing

20:58

that I thought to myself like you've gotta

21:00

figure it out, you don't. You.

21:03

Don't have that read that women trancelike like

21:05

I. I feel a certain sense of reservations

21:07

about just like door knocking on doors I

21:09

would like get I'll do a lie and

21:12

I have to do a sometimes but I've

21:14

never been a big fan of it the

21:16

arm but I see you like you know.

21:19

Run at random place in Wyoming and you

21:21

got half a day and boom yeah spot.

21:23

So that's why you hear. That's why one.

21:26

Talk. To you. Okay, let's get into it. To

21:29

get sick cast set the stage of

21:31

can you feel assume the her talent

21:33

access history have you been knock on

21:35

doors are sending letters and get permission

21:37

for free from the get go or

21:39

what is that evolution been like for

21:42

you Getting it's the already on when

21:44

I was in high school and I

21:46

grew lectured and if you like to

21:48

some states and these i get a

21:50

Kentucky or in Illinois or made Georgia

21:52

you can look at a piece of

21:54

land from a road or from like

21:57

a real and and if it. Has

21:59

timber to seems like. Authorities and that's

22:01

not the case. Where I grew up

22:03

in in the places that I had

22:05

always dear haunted on did not have

22:07

turkeys and so when I was interested

22:09

in turkey hunting I sort of had

22:11

to strike out on my own and

22:14

and find places to haunt and I

22:16

guess that was the genesis of me.

22:18

ah knocking on doors calling landowners i'm

22:20

sending letters was was trying to find

22:22

places to turkey hunting said then started

22:24

at are no problem now is like

22:26

a junior in high school and then

22:29

when I went. Off to college A

22:31

I went to college of these are little

22:33

over an hour away from home and A

22:35

I still won't be able to haunt weekdays

22:37

and was a place that didn't have hardly

22:40

any public land in. So odd there. Again,

22:42

that was like the next chapter. Okay, now

22:44

I need to find haunting permissions for deer

22:46

because I'd like to hunt on a Wednesday

22:48

and I don't want to drive an hour

22:51

back home So that that was the beginning

22:53

of it for me. Do

22:56

you remember. What? Those early

22:58

days were like like that the

23:00

first door you knocked honor or

23:02

some other early interactions where you

23:04

like Rico Suave a with a

23:06

deep baritone voice like now and

23:08

at Route Ghetto or did you

23:11

struggle at first either? I struggled

23:13

on a was especially hard for

23:15

me to talk to a stranger

23:17

about it and I think my

23:19

first interactions were with folks that

23:21

I was are familiar with. Like

23:23

somebody on that I i knew

23:25

their dad because I'm went to

23:27

school. With their kid or I

23:29

someone who was my math teacher

23:31

in middle school ah my assert

23:33

off with like folks that I

23:35

felt like were within my network

23:37

and if I do have to

23:39

talk to a stranger on that

23:41

was typically on successful and and

23:43

or thing that I had to

23:45

like height myself up for a

23:47

lot and often that was enough

23:49

either for forbids be like easy

23:51

for me to go ask somebody

23:53

for permission so the early days

23:55

on were much tougher and and.

23:57

Dumb. I've now realizes a gun the

24:00

older, that a worst case scenario is

24:02

you going to say no and and

24:04

that's okay, and that happens a lot.

24:07

I'm in, Then you just move on.

24:09

It's it's. never been the case like

24:11

gone, Not when you were hunting in

24:14

what was it, Washington D, C where

24:16

the cops for color or that's unusual

24:18

that that doesn't have been. You know

24:21

you might envision that. the worst case

24:23

scenario is that. But the reality is,

24:25

it isn't that they're typically pretty pleasant,

24:28

earn that they're not unpleasant. Experiences

24:30

And again they might say

24:32

no, but that's okay. Okay,

24:35

but it's it's not always early for

24:37

my experience is not always rainbows and

24:40

butterflies even when they do say the

24:42

up know. You have

24:44

another can call them if but he we have

24:46

you had anything weird happen or what's the worst

24:48

thing that you have had happened. So.

24:50

You must have been some

24:52

had awkward situation or something

24:54

over the years the worst

24:56

thing that I've had happened.

24:58

I'm yelling. I would guess

25:01

it's like encountering somebody who

25:03

is anti hunting or or

25:05

someone who I'm. Feels.

25:07

Like they have to go over

25:09

the top to tell me know

25:11

on the you know, like almost

25:13

insulting or something like that and

25:15

and that can be unpleasant. I'm.

25:18

But. But nothing that's ever been like

25:20

a disaster and so I guess I

25:22

guess I'm The good news is, if

25:25

something isn't sticking out to me as

25:27

being like a really bad scenario, then

25:29

I think that says that bad things

25:31

don't happen all that often, I guess,

25:34

and I feel like I've contacted. I've

25:36

quite literally hundreds of landowners over the

25:38

year and and. Yeah, when it

25:40

goes bad, it's not all that bad.

25:42

Ah, I'm. Yeah.

25:44

I guess at worst case scenario

25:47

nothing nothing comes to mind. It's

26:00

too easy than isn't full swing right

26:02

now and if you are planning on

26:04

getting the after it makes your to

26:06

pick up some meat eater Phelps turkey

26:08

calls to stuff into the old turkey

26:10

baster into your fanny pack. Right now

26:12

I carry a few different things like

26:14

these mouth calls and I like use

26:17

hot coals, mouth of calls, diaphragm the

26:19

like because it gives you hands free

26:21

calling Meeting: when you work in a

26:23

bird or close you have you gone

26:25

on your knee, figure on the trigger

26:27

ready to roll and still be making.

26:30

Turkeys out. Alec Potholes that

26:32

is like particle biden Joy. Calling

26:35

with a park or. Whatever.

26:37

Direction you go. Including

26:39

a box call which I don't personally

26:42

use too much but their phone and

26:44

great I started out with them Johnny

26:46

on the other hand when I mean

26:48

turkey homebodies he loves box calls and

26:50

what's funny is all down and look

26:52

to whom and given the look that

26:55

means the get out your box call

26:57

and find us a turkey so suburb

26:59

of like a modest to have ya

27:01

to use his than on have cured

27:03

go to self gain calls, get calls

27:05

that are made in the Usa and

27:08

get calls that or get. I'm close.

27:10

Find yours as Phelps

27:13

game cause of.com Today.

27:17

So. I'll give you one of my worst

27:19

case scenarios are other than the cop one,

27:21

yeah, or one time I was with the

27:24

missiles. kind of. I was just on

27:26

the sidelines for the some sort of but I was

27:28

with a buddy and we're drive around southern Ohio trying

27:30

to find a place to hunt. And

27:32

there were sometimes when he would we

27:34

are We're worried that both of us

27:36

going up there once was kind of

27:38

be like overwhelmingly right many people asking

27:41

for to us permission so from most

27:43

of I'm he would lead or I

27:45

would we take turns harm in so

27:47

on this house. He. Led.

27:50

And. See

27:52

in particular had a belief in there

27:54

might be truth to this that. The

27:57

more sketchy a look and how that

27:59

is the better chance you have of

28:01

getting permission on the farm. Ah right

28:03

because as you go to like a

28:05

really fancy very expensive home and they've

28:07

got one hundred acres and your knock

28:10

on door like. Pressure.

28:12

Like bought the place to they want to

28:14

use of for themselves or whatever. but but

28:16

you might be Will finally said Barry Rundown

28:18

Milla nowhere place where they're very okay with

28:20

whatever you know they're okay with it. He:

28:22

I don't have a bunch of people are

28:24

you there that him by this place specifically

28:26

to they want to kill huge giant bucks.

28:28

Whatever they've just been there. Are.

28:30

So his anger was like we seek out that

28:32

kind of place your. And so

28:35

I just remember this one particular

28:37

place. Like. It was. You.

28:40

Know like. Missing. Windows have been

28:42

painted and forty years, there's every

28:44

old factor. every old car, every

28:47

old bicycle that this family known

28:49

for Fifty years in the lawn

28:51

arm. Does. The front door.

28:54

Gentlemen. Opens the door in his

28:56

underwear still and like of very stained

28:58

wife beater. And then my

29:00

buddy you ie. estimate was house

29:02

and solo you can't say no

29:04

to that of then he goes

29:06

into the house and I can't

29:08

see what's going on anymore and

29:10

subset their single car. Or.

29:13

Your look like you notice like. It

29:17

just kind of look like the beginning of like

29:19

one those movies where someone doesn't come on the

29:21

house ascendancy as issues' Harry the Cinematic yes, Insiders

29:23

over thinking we got for ten mass like do

29:25

I need to get up and go check and

29:28

after fifty mans? like do I need to be

29:30

worried after like twenty minutes like I'm thinking seriously,

29:32

okay I see just like go lock up there

29:34

and like try the. Is. Probably

29:36

spiders Brian. They're having coffee or talk and

29:39

but I probably need to to check on

29:41

the situations. I just there for twenty minutes.

29:43

Stressing. About like what's going on and

29:45

then finally right before I was about to go

29:48

and get in there are they came back out

29:50

and then I wasn't I was waived in and

29:52

man you know. From. There it was fine

29:54

but you just find yourself in all sorts of

29:56

ton of. Interesting.

29:59

Or awkward. Strange situations? Where

30:01

do you permission? We.

30:04

Did not get permission. Oh what? what? What was

30:06

going on for that twenty med. To

30:08

Swansea outer layer guy I found no lot

30:10

like would you especially certain parts of the

30:13

country that aren't as busy. I think you're

30:15

right if you lives. Far. Out

30:17

there. Yes! You. Don't have a lot

30:19

of visitors so sometimes we have people the

30:21

just wanna talk or like that they'll hear

30:23

you out and then they tell you Bob,

30:25

Bob and their uncle who's so insanely before

30:27

it you know is ever know are those

30:29

conversations going to go on And I've always

30:31

thought. You. Never rush yourself out of

30:33

it. Sure like one thing I've learned over the

30:35

years like if they're watch out let him sadly

30:38

polite be respectful like you push yourself on them

30:40

in the first place. Yes we are. Don't be

30:42

rude putting yourself out arm and then at the

30:44

same time you never know what might happen like

30:46

I've had situations where they say know at first

30:49

but then they just keep talking and keep talking

30:51

and they get know you'll a bit more and

30:53

your they are an hour and you told your

30:55

life store and they told you their life story

30:57

and by the end of it though like are

30:59

you know what here sir you could have the

31:02

of ah. So. That's.

31:04

All long winded way of getting to

31:06

what I really want as give us

31:08

an answer which is I'm. You.

31:11

Been through the wringer. You've done it for many

31:14

years since high school. Where

31:16

have you landed? I think I know aware

31:18

of you landed as far as what you

31:20

think is your preferred mode now of getting

31:22

permission. My my

31:25

preferred mode I'm I see

31:27

get his hardest to. Turn

31:30

me down in person if if

31:32

I am like you know what

31:34

a. Person. To person

31:36

exchange had their front door something

31:38

or that seems to be where

31:40

I have the most success in

31:43

in. If I were to like

31:45

think about the the ways that

31:47

I have the best odds of

31:49

getting permission I would say face

31:51

to face Here are the best

31:53

odds for me At the bottom

31:56

of the list is probably like

31:58

the the most interact with would

32:00

be probably letter writing. I send

32:02

Facebook messages to folks if I

32:04

can find a landowner on Facebook

32:06

on those things have worked out

32:08

for me but at a lower

32:11

rate than face to face and

32:13

then somewhere in between their on

32:15

would be making a phone call

32:17

that that's you know between face

32:19

to face and between sending a

32:21

digital message or a or a

32:23

physical letter on would be a

32:26

phone call. So if if I'm

32:28

local to the area I prefer.

32:30

To go talk to them on. If

32:32

that's not the case I prefer to

32:34

call them on the phone I'm in

32:37

in in other situations I will send

32:39

them a face with message and then

32:41

in like very specific examples I will

32:44

shot gun out a bunch of letters

32:46

to people to which you know I

32:48

feel like the last time I did

32:51

that was a couple years ago here

32:53

in Montana think I sent I was

32:55

like hundred eleven or hundred and eighteen

32:58

letters or something like that and. I

33:00

think of that one eighteen I had

33:02

gone three permissions com where where I

33:04

got access to haunt something and I

33:06

feel like I only heard back from

33:09

probably like ten to twenty people and

33:11

then the other. You know that leaves

33:13

about one hundred letters averages totally unanswered.

33:15

I'm and and that's fine and there's

33:17

like pros and cons see really approach

33:20

and the pro to that was I

33:22

could contact a ton of people. Ah

33:24

man, Once the Khan was that I

33:26

was likely never going to hear back.

33:28

but it's just. It's just one

33:31

approach arm. I don't put all my

33:33

eggs in one specific basket ah, but

33:35

prefer face to face. But and I'll

33:37

try anything. I

33:39

want. I want to dig into all of those.

33:42

but he ended with the letter thing. in. The

33:44

letter thing is something that I think you're kind

33:46

of known for. Little bit that's a little bit

33:48

more unique is an arm, so that's my bad

33:50

luck. You sound one hundred and eighteen letters. you

33:52

got three permission. like I know that percentage rate

33:54

is good. But. She gets three

33:56

new permissions like that like. Like.

33:59

The last. Okay, to be stoked to get permission. Three

34:01

two properties in the year? Yep, what was the list?

34:03

Like, how long does it take you to send out

34:06

one hundred and eighteen letters? Are we talking like. Hours.

34:09

And hours Or days And days and days. Or

34:11

the thing I put an four hours and I

34:13

got for profits. Yet. Some

34:16

parts vitter like a a grueling

34:18

process like finding a hundred eighteen

34:20

properties. Are you on Hans? That

34:22

is a ton of time on

34:24

our next. Sometimes I feel like

34:26

dedicate hours on a Saturday morning

34:28

to be on my computer and

34:30

odd find places that I'd be

34:32

interested haunting. I will label those

34:34

with a very specific plan on

34:36

on x. I think I do

34:38

like A or purple Bomb x

34:40

or whatever. like this is a

34:42

place I'm interested in right and

34:44

then are actually writing. The addresses

34:46

down is another thing. Maybe at this

34:49

point with like a I, there's a

34:51

quicker way to do this. In any

34:53

kid like mass produce some letterhead with

34:55

the addresses on it. You know, as

34:58

have like three years ago that that

35:00

wasn't the case for me and so

35:02

are you spending a ton of hours

35:05

just finding a hundred eighty properties in

35:07

there and you're spending a lot of

35:09

hours like writing somebodies address on the

35:11

letter. I'm actually writing the letter. That

35:14

probably took me a couple. Hours as

35:16

well. And and this that was the

35:18

approach I took. They were awesome! They

35:21

weren't specific to landowners yeah I'm in

35:23

fact I heard back from a landowner

35:26

who said that he didn't like how

35:28

he knew was very impersonal because I

35:30

start off with your landowner which he

35:33

had a correctly identified that I was

35:35

reaching out to a ton of folks

35:37

I'm and in he didn't like that

35:39

and and you know not that I

35:42

would have got permission of I would

35:44

have put like earmark on is now

35:46

I'm bites you know that lowered my

35:49

odds as well not making them personalized.

35:51

And so I think it's I. If

35:53

I were to do it again, I

35:55

would probably go to a smaller list

35:58

of landowners and make them. More

36:00

personalized I think there would have my

36:02

odd but as far as the the

36:05

input into the saying it some yet

36:07

days of work to identify the properties,

36:09

hours of work to bomb address the

36:12

envelopes arm and then it's It's very

36:14

quick beyond that is to add the

36:16

stamps and and drop him off to

36:18

the post office but it's again it's

36:21

a thing you can do like I'm

36:23

from your kitchen table ah at home

36:25

I'm which makes it valuable in it's

36:28

own way. Yeah. What's.

36:31

Your criteria. When

36:34

you're looking at on Axe to choose

36:36

these properties that you wanna get access

36:38

to from afar to the get a

36:40

place you've not been able see before,

36:42

what are you looking for when you're

36:44

gone through that process? I think I'm

36:46

naturally folks be inclined to pick out

36:48

the best years honing properties which is

36:51

what I did as well when I

36:53

started seeking properties in college and and

36:55

I remember like the first day I

36:57

had to hide my cell phone to

36:59

go out and knock on doors I

37:01

was picking out like the twenty five

37:03

you know best. Properties in the area

37:05

and I think it a single permission

37:07

and I look back on that now

37:09

and I'm like for door on You

37:11

know if it look that good if

37:13

he was a manicured property? other folks

37:15

you're already honey, it's fair either for

37:17

yourselves or are they have a neighbor,

37:19

nephew or thousand whatever that may be

37:22

So I I i lower my. My

37:25

criteria for a good your property if

37:27

you were degrade them: A B C

37:29

D I'm I'm almost never sending out

37:31

letters for raise. Me

37:33

Now. Be is more rare

37:35

but most commonly and looking for

37:37

properties that are you would say

37:39

this is I go see I'm

37:41

on a school grading scale for

37:44

how good it might be for

37:46

deer hunting because I think less

37:48

folks are then asking that person

37:50

haunt it's less likely ah that

37:52

day haunted themselves and and that's

37:54

good for you if you looking

37:56

for permission. The other thing is

37:58

t. The Something that's

38:00

become more popular for me because I live

38:03

in a place that does have a lot

38:05

of public land. I'm. Probably.

38:08

Like thirty or forty percent of the

38:10

time I'm asking a landowner if I

38:12

can use their property to back door

38:14

a piece of public land that is

38:16

otherwise very difficult ah to get into

38:18

and I've had a lot of success

38:20

with that. It's a much lower I'm

38:22

asked for them you know and I

38:24

make it very clear and the like

38:26

I'm I'm not asking too hot. your

38:28

place ah my would just be crossing

38:30

your property on foot to get to

38:32

the public land that I am looking

38:34

to haunt. and I've I've even had

38:36

like those situations turned into. A again

38:38

and if you'd like to, you can

38:41

also haunt on. My side effects on

38:43

so that's death. the other thing, sometimes

38:45

it's it's less about looking for odd,

38:47

the piece of private land the you

38:50

want to haunt in more about. I'm

38:52

fine in the peace. A private land

38:54

that gets you to a good piece

38:56

and public land that others don't have

38:59

access to. I'm so that's that's you

39:01

know my evolution of asking for permissions,

39:03

are looking for see properties and looking

39:05

for properties that give me access. To

39:08

a piece of public in any other

39:10

thing is if I do get a

39:12

yes ah from a landowner that is

39:14

very powerful locally for getting other permissions

39:16

I've had that than snowball lot. I

39:18

had this happen in Wyoming where I

39:20

witnessed the landowner ah to haunt him

39:22

and he had a few thousand acres

39:24

in that he said well in my

39:26

brother also owns you know the neighboring

39:28

farm and you can haunt that place

39:30

and so I immediately I unlocked you

39:33

know a couple more property that way

39:35

and then I go talk to or

39:37

that person's. Neighbor and I say hey

39:39

I you know I'm around here for

39:41

a few days and deer hunting and

39:43

I'm from Montana. I actually got permission

39:46

from your neighbor Mark Kenyan to let

39:48

me haunts. Ah minnows wonder if I

39:50

get to your place is well on

39:52

and and that is sort of me

39:55

telling that landowner that their neighbor feels

39:57

comfortable with me being on their land

39:59

and. In that Mike really helps my

40:01

success or your significantly more likely to

40:03

get permission on a neighbor's land if

40:06

their neighbor has also let you Hans

40:08

and so I'm that becomes like an

40:10

all hands on deck situation for me

40:12

if I if I get permission on

40:14

a place on now bugging all the

40:16

neighbors and and whatever else is local

40:19

if I think that that won't landowners

40:21

name is going to be recognized when

40:23

I talked to that other person. Yeah,

40:26

I've had a kind of a similar

40:28

thing. Happen. but

40:30

with no seems old. Whenever

40:33

I get a know. On

40:35

a random Dornoch, the Up. I. Always

40:37

end by asking them Hate? Yeah Is

40:39

there anybody else in the area the

40:41

you might think would be. More.

40:44

Willing to allow someone like me to go through

40:46

ball hunt the up and if ever I get

40:49

our well yeah you should try Bill down the

40:51

road like I always go there and then I

40:53

can open with like the referral Yeah okay my

40:55

name's Mark, you know Bob down the street mentioned

40:58

I was a talker. Bob Bob mentioned I succumb

41:00

the of second with you about yada yada yada

41:02

yada and so kind of. Implicitly,

41:04

there's a little bit of our connection

41:06

there to like. any time I feel

41:08

you can. Make. It

41:10

seem like you I have a connection

41:12

to the community or like some kind

41:14

of reason the be there like a

41:16

for if it's if I'm doing local

41:18

I'm like hey I live down x

41:20

street ah til I yada yada or

41:22

up I know my my body Ross

41:24

lives and Hans down on hundred fifteenth

41:26

street or whatever can I? I I

41:29

always leave with anything attended connect me

41:31

to. Some. Kind of. Reference.

41:34

Point I guess we're looking for your guts

41:36

and that seems to help some yeah gives

41:38

you a local ties are that you may

41:40

not otherwise have in and like a said

41:43

a thing exists. Make cel landowner more comfortable

41:45

if they know that a nother landowner was

41:47

comfortable enough to live on. Yeah.

41:50

About to the letters so you

41:53

establish how you find always properties.

41:56

What's. Actually in that letter so I know

41:58

you've used the generic. Miss Dear

42:01

Land are was doesn't work as well. Yeah,

42:03

so you said he would get more specific,

42:05

more personable. Yep, what would you? what would

42:07

you recommend including in that letter? Now that

42:10

you've learned a few tough lessons or by

42:12

the same time you've had success to the

42:14

I keep it's I'm one page for sure.

42:16

I don't want to go beyond that existing.

42:19

It's less likely that build. Finish.

42:21

The dang thing in that case. I'll

42:24

open up and I'll tell them who

42:26

I am I'm I don't say anything

42:28

about my career because I've found that

42:30

in some cases that makes people more

42:33

uncomfortable. I've I've lost permission on like

42:35

a form in Wyoming to haunt because

42:37

we were filming one week in November

42:39

one time and I had to get

42:41

them to sign a film released on

42:44

to allow us to like film ma'am

42:46

their piece of land which something we

42:48

have to go through from for filming

42:50

a. Haunt right He whether it's on

42:52

public land or private land on we

42:54

have to have film release his side

42:56

and know the kind of intimidating documents

42:58

right there. like six pages and it's

43:00

it's a big lie, it's a big

43:03

ask for that landowner and so there

43:05

is one property where I used to

43:07

have permission when I wasn't filming and

43:09

then we came there to film one

43:11

week in November. one time and I

43:13

i lost permission are that place because

43:15

it made them very uneasy having a

43:17

camera man around. And

43:19

so I don't. I don't tell folks. On what

43:21

I do it off odd. that would

43:24

be different I think if you had

43:26

a more ah like admirable career. If

43:28

you were a teacher or in the

43:30

military ah I'm or ah if you

43:32

were a first responder. I tell folks

43:35

that that the having a came or

43:37

man around. And

43:39

so I don't. I don't tell folks

43:41

on what I do it all odds

43:43

that would be different. I think if

43:45

you had a more ah like admirable

43:47

career, if you were a teacher or

43:49

in the military arm. Or if

43:52

you were first responders or tell

43:54

folks that that that you do

43:56

that thing I think that would

43:59

appear odds. Getting permission

44:01

to I tell folks who I

44:03

am, I say where I live

44:05

when it comes to saying where

44:07

I live or Bozeman has a

44:09

certain reputation. So I don't say

44:12

Bozeman. We have like a sleeper

44:14

community outside of Bozeman called Belgrade.

44:16

My say I'm from Belgrade, Montana

44:18

and people won't recognize their name

44:20

on which is good in this

44:23

case then they assume it's like

44:25

a a small ah you know

44:27

it as small community but Bozeman

44:29

has. A different reputation. Dad

44:32

is it. If someone

44:34

has. Like.

44:36

Thoughts about that place was the

44:38

other probably negative and so I

44:40

don't say i'm I'm from Bozeman

44:42

again if if your I would

44:44

think about that to probably every

44:46

state's I'm Gail are certain communities

44:48

have reputations? Certain license plates have

44:50

reputations are My lived in the

44:52

biggest city in South Dakota for

44:54

a little while or that was

44:56

Sioux Falls and did those people

44:58

have license plates and have a

45:00

one on them are right and

45:03

you know whenever you're out hunting

45:05

and you see somebody. With a one

45:07

license plates you like you know that

45:09

damn person and would ever see how

45:11

just yeah exactly a year and mean

45:13

nothing but it does to some people

45:15

and say i don't I wouldn't say

45:17

I'm from Sioux Falls I would say

45:19

I grew up in a small town

45:21

called Menno I'm in so I think

45:23

about that how you presenting you know

45:25

where you live, where you careers. I

45:27

think if you have ah children to

45:29

order to sit in haunting I think

45:31

that's very powerful. I don't bite if

45:33

if I did if I had you

45:35

know I. Mean, I'm my twelve year

45:37

old disused hoping to get his first

45:39

year. I think that would make a

45:42

landowner far more. Willing

45:44

to let you Hans Self or Hotel

45:46

Foose tell folks who I am? Ah,

45:48

then explain. You know why I'm reaching

45:51

out to this person? because and I'm

45:53

You never get letters from strangers anymore

45:55

at least I don't us and said

45:57

you know it's already kind of. Unique

46:00

experience. Had to getting a letter and

46:02

I'll I'll tell them you know I'm

46:04

a deer hunter, I'm from Montana than

46:07

I'd I'd love to come ah hunt

46:09

this place. This year I actually do

46:11

a tags or tell them you know

46:14

when I plan to be their arm

46:16

and like for how many days I

46:18

think that's very important on. There's a

46:20

difference in asking for hunting permission for

46:23

an entire season which you know if

46:25

it's or tree. ah that's like three

46:27

months in some states but if I.

46:30

Say I'm going to be there

46:32

for this forward a window. Odd.

46:34

That's a very different ask than

46:36

just asking for hunting experience or

46:38

hunting permission in general Arms. Or

46:41

say that I'm You know I'm

46:43

I'm very respectful, Hunter. I'm I'm

46:45

willing to provide like landowner references

46:48

if they're interested, which I think

46:50

is a good message to send

46:52

them. but I've never had anybody

46:54

take me up on that in

46:56

my entire life. I'd sort of

46:58

the an empty gesture. I would

47:00

totally do it if someone's like

47:02

yeah, you know if he could

47:04

mean a gimme a few landowners

47:06

who who's cloudy on it before

47:08

but I think it's signaling to

47:10

them I'm dead. That I'm like

47:12

comfortable on or that that I've

47:14

hunted private property in the past

47:17

and I haven't had a yeah

47:19

bad experiences. I'm willing to let

47:21

you talk to folks who would

47:23

back that up and so odd

47:25

the I explain who I am,

47:27

I explain why I'm sending them

47:30

this letter ah my. try to

47:32

again explain more about Young my

47:34

values in and tell them that

47:36

I I I will provide references

47:38

if they would like that. I'm

47:40

clean, I'm. Usually I I don't think

47:43

my letters message like send this message

47:45

is well but it's in person or

47:47

on the phone. I'm you know I

47:49

I'd tell them no I get a

47:52

beautiful property like is a deer hunter.

47:54

You know I would be snow displaced

47:56

in India drawing Brown. A lotta landowners

47:58

in a farming community or think often

48:00

they're told that like guy you know

48:03

this cornfield is a beautiful property. but

48:05

in my eyes this I'm I'm not

48:07

lying when I say that that you

48:09

know that's how I do. You feel

48:12

about it on the and then and

48:14

then. I thank them for their time.

48:17

And and the I try to keep it

48:19

he be one page. Is

48:32

your face book or social media

48:34

message strategy or absolute the letter

48:36

the you include Met is that

48:38

many way different or same spiel

48:41

saw Yeah far as I'm reaching

48:43

out to somebody on facebook messenger

48:45

I'm that is very personal right?

48:47

Is the you know it's like

48:49

gears? I'm Cynthia you know ah

48:52

hey I know this is a

48:54

weird message request by to I

48:56

have a deer tags ah for

48:58

your area you know and and

49:00

I'll go on. To sort of give

49:03

the same message that I gave before

49:05

and I'll be very specific about the

49:07

piece of property I'm that I'm referencing

49:09

because in a lot of cases people

49:11

loan multiple properties and so if if

49:13

you're not direct about which one it

49:15

is, when it's you know this many

49:17

acres off this road know, Just like

49:19

invite some confusion. Ah, off the bat.

49:21

so the in that case I'm yards.

49:23

it's a lot more personal. Okay,

49:29

So. One more farben

49:31

the letters I guess. I'm. Just

49:33

years. While it's like daft after get the

49:35

hit, the get the heads east and one

49:37

hundred eighteen, just three yes as back they

49:39

respond. Ah, My assumption is

49:41

that then you guys have a phone call

49:44

or something talk was more details. You specify

49:46

when you're going to come out there and

49:48

then you guys meet up and person is

49:50

that right or do it. Had these things

49:52

done differently that. Yeah, mas I'm

49:55

always offering to meet up in person and

49:57

I leave them a lot of ways to

49:59

get old. Me: I'm united, give my

50:01

phone number, tell him they can call me

50:03

or they can takes me a give them

50:05

my email, I tell him they can email

50:08

me I'm and that I give my address

50:10

and if they want to write a letter

50:12

back on they can do that in most

50:14

cases. Yeah, I will meet up with the

50:16

landowner ah I'm and ah yeah. coordinate their

50:19

way. There's there's a lot of coordinating that

50:21

goes on so I can get him shake

50:23

their hand and person then and maybe get

50:25

a lay of the land if there happens

50:27

to be something confusing with with boundaries or

50:30

whatever. On but I sort

50:32

of on. You to

50:34

leave it up to them I would I'd

50:36

love to to meet in person or but

50:38

some land owners are are so you know

50:40

comfortable at that point that they're like a.

50:43

Okay, Yeah, I've. Had.

50:45

Him whenever you want to be or okay sounds good.

50:48

By another thing, when I am identify

50:50

properties some the I just thought of

50:53

that I do a lot on his.

50:55

I look for absentee landowners in so

50:57

if I'm if I'm hunting in Wyoming

51:00

arm it is a huge bonus

51:02

for me if they have another state

51:04

address them. I feel like I've had

51:06

more luck in those scenarios because I

51:09

think those people tend to be harder

51:11

to track down, especially if you're

51:13

there in person and and. Because

51:16

my preference is to knock on

51:18

their door buzzer. Lot of cases

51:20

where if if the landowner com

51:22

lives in Iowa but their property

51:24

is in Montana on Us soil.

51:26

the only way to reach them

51:28

and and so I think there's

51:30

less folks com bugging them for

51:32

hunting permission. In that case, I

51:34

really like targeting absentee landowners. In

51:37

your same best for the letter strategy. Or

51:40

phone calls or facebook messages dumb yeah

51:42

I be say can knock on their

51:45

door in in those cases but when

51:47

it comes to are like an indirect

51:49

way of reaching out yeah like absentee

51:52

landowners a lot. Okay,

51:54

ah, I'm. Blessed

51:57

pivot to the actual with us

51:59

talk to a person Strategy: So

52:02

you already described how you pick

52:04

your properties. But. Is it

52:06

different it at all When you are

52:08

actually gonna go up to the house

52:10

like to you in any way, pick

52:13

different properties when you are somewhat

52:15

local or you're going to be there

52:17

at some point and show up in

52:19

person or you doing the same thing

52:22

looking for see grade properties looking for

52:24

stuff he said yeah it's it's almost

52:26

always the same thing I'm an idea

52:29

leave when it's in in person deal

52:31

the address like matches the axle property

52:33

itself because I'm than that. probably. Means

52:36

that the reformer or that they actually

52:38

work on the land and if I

52:40

swing by at two pm on a

52:42

Wednesday or they're probably home. but if

52:44

if they're landowner has a suburban address

52:47

you know it. it's more likely that

52:49

they work and nine to five on

52:51

they're going to be harder to get

52:53

a hold of. See, I hope that

52:55

their home is on the property I'm

52:57

in. Their makes it much easier to

53:00

to get a hold of them. Are

53:03

it so your local. You're.

53:06

In Wyoming or South Dakota or

53:08

whatever it yet found. see grade

53:10

list Ah I'm. What's.

53:12

Your spiel. Some folks would to go

53:14

up there and is Bs for a while and

53:16

then they meant no I'm also looking for this.

53:18

Some folks dive right into it. What's your take

53:20

The I tend to not waste their time I'm

53:23

which I'm not saying that so that's did sister

53:25

my preferred way of doing it but I be

53:27

like us ah you know knock on your door

53:29

and and be like a. Bit.

53:31

Higher are you are? Are you more

53:34

Kenyan? I'm black? Yeah. Yep. Big. I'm

53:36

oak. Ah, money. misspent a new or

53:38

them from Belgrade, Montana? I'm I'm down

53:40

here deer hunting for the next three

53:42

days and again I think it's very

53:44

important to like lay out your timeline

53:47

because I'm saying that you're there for

53:49

the next three days and hunting is

53:51

very different than just asking for three

53:53

months. Worth information. So I say I.

53:55

You know I'm here for the next

53:58

three days deer hunting. And

54:00

I you know if you place a

54:02

looks like you would probably have some

54:04

deer and I was wondering if if

54:06

you let people haunted on. If so,

54:09

if I kinda have haunting permission I

54:11

don't I don't think I have a

54:13

i'm you know, something that's like memorized

54:15

them like I'm an actor. but it's

54:17

it's close to. you know what? I

54:19

just delivered to you There. Why

54:22

is it so hard for people to say

54:25

no to you in person? You mention that

54:27

that's the case is it is a D

54:29

Swoop in with the the voice of them

54:31

like built the girl in the eye and

54:33

the say Spencer New our side what is

54:35

it Weldon of for one they descend for

54:38

one they have to answer me right where

54:40

is with I say you know writing a

54:42

letter on thinking this crumble, it opened the

54:44

road in the garbage and and never think

54:46

about it again and I think that's often

54:49

what does happen. I'd same with an email

54:51

or facebook message or. Fi leave that

54:53

person a voicemail. I'm. It's.

54:55

It's just so easy to ignore me

54:57

and so one am I'm going to

54:59

get an answer on and then I

55:01

I think i'm You know it's it's

55:04

one of the reasons I prefer So

55:06

Low. Haunting is. well I'm I think

55:08

it is. It's so much less intimidating.

55:10

Ah, when I tell them it's just

55:12

me, it's not me and my body

55:14

had some mean like a party of

55:16

of three other guys on and so

55:18

I think that's awesome. Important: they can

55:20

see my truck and eight and what

55:22

my truck looks like had their moments

55:25

on. That the don't tell have

55:27

an easier time identifying. you know like

55:29

who this stranger is on their property

55:31

and am. So I think it's I

55:34

think it's all those factors come together

55:36

and in assists and you know harder

55:38

to give somebody bad news in person

55:41

which is ultimately went out what they're

55:43

doing right like I'm I'm looking for

55:45

a yes, I'm and. It's.

55:47

You know, harder for them to tell me

55:49

know In a lot of times on you

55:51

know you can like sort of sense that

55:53

dread from that landowner you're talking to. Do

55:56

I go? I'm I'm really sorry. Ah, but

55:58

actually and and on you don't. Provide

56:00

whatever I you know they're they're valid

56:02

excuses. and so I think it's all

56:04

those factors baked it begun to. I'm

56:06

young that you really ops your odds

56:08

if you their face to face. Now

56:11

so so I wouldn't call these

56:14

tricks but but but like little.

56:16

Little. Things that Help Like I like I

56:19

mentioned that I'll always try to find a reference

56:21

points about Connect Me A to the area. I'll

56:23

always, you know, never end the conversation if they

56:25

want to keep going with it right? Because you

56:28

never know. What? Might happen by the end

56:30

of it. The Hard: The little trick I mention

56:32

where I'll always ask them to refer me to

56:34

the next place the up on. Those

56:36

are feel like my little things and

56:38

of work you have any other little

56:40

tricks or angles are like best practices

56:43

that of kind of helped you above

56:45

and what we've talked about. How man

56:47

I think I think all those things.

56:50

That. I've mentioned already are are are kind

56:53

of my tricks again like I'm it did

56:55

helps if you there on your own or

56:57

if you have like a kid who wants

56:59

to haunt that's probably a scenario where it

57:02

is better to have ah. More.

57:04

People there. ah. Yeah.

57:08

I think what or anywhere. Where.

57:10

Where I don't think about that too much.

57:12

I know a lotta guys say that it's

57:14

been a lie to wear their cameo I'm

57:16

I've I've tried to like identify if that

57:18

helps or hurts my odds and I don't

57:20

think it's a and on the good does

57:22

either one. So if I happen we were

57:24

in camel you don't the goal or where

57:26

the camel I'm that I have on while

57:28

on their i think something that. Benefits.

57:31

Me is I did grow up in a

57:33

small farming community of of six hundred people

57:35

and you know I knew every farmer in

57:37

the area a lot of my family farms

57:40

and so I can speak a little bit

57:42

of farm. I'm not a lot the like

57:44

to a certain level I can speak farm

57:46

or with the for me to give me

57:49

an example can kill you makes our heads

57:51

on farmer candid spicy I just whatever is

57:53

like seasonal at that time are be like

57:55

I'll see you know you guys are you

57:57

to talk about the sure if if. Have

58:00

to be carrying season. Odd. Talk about

58:02

calving a little bit or whatever. And

58:05

add another give specific. they have a nice but

58:07

i'm as bushel you get over there. share share

58:10

their yeah that's that's a good example on but

58:12

I can. I can like you know it's always

58:14

specific to whatever is happening there, but I can

58:16

speak a little bit a farm I think that

58:19

happens as well because again in in these scenarios

58:21

you know. It. It's better

58:23

for them to that think of me

58:25

as a stranger for both. From Bozeman

58:27

in the I can I talk a

58:29

little farm with them, buds, harvest, or

58:32

cattle or or grain prices or whatever.

58:34

That's to my benefit. I think that's

58:36

still makes him more comfortable with the

58:38

whole situation. that I'm not going to

58:41

like our room, their fence, or do

58:43

something totally idiotic like that. Yeah.

58:46

Hundred percent agree. So you you gave me

58:48

a perfect say wait till last they want

58:50

to ask? ask about. You've. Hundred

58:52

a lot different places now by

58:55

permission slip met with lot different

58:57

landowners. Arm. I think a

58:59

really important thing that anyone who wants

59:01

to get permission hunt somebody elses land

59:03

needs really think about is how to

59:06

make sure the use that purses land

59:08

respectfully. Right arm can you leave us

59:10

with a few of your best practices

59:12

for making sure that you. Maintain.

59:15

A good relationship with the landowner

59:17

and use their prop their property

59:19

respectfully properly. In. The ways they

59:21

want the I think I'm one of

59:24

the the biggest things I'm most landowners

59:26

are concerned about like where you're driving

59:28

and I'm I will like basically new

59:30

do that conversation before can happen in

59:32

and tell them did like yeah I'm

59:34

just I'm just looking to walk you

59:36

know not going to be driving anywhere

59:38

on and in so I think it's

59:40

in a lot of cases even the

59:42

lander be like i you know there's

59:44

this pass all over you can take

59:46

or whatever just like you know watch

59:48

when he drafted that one passes. There's

59:51

some rights so I'd tell them

59:53

I'm not going to drive anywhere

59:55

on the I think if B

59:57

M. B. be conscious

59:59

about conditions. One of

1:00:01

the worst things you can do is

1:00:03

if you are driving around, if they

1:00:05

have like a dirt road that they

1:00:08

themselves are responsible for maintaining, don't

1:00:10

drive down it when it's muddy or something like

1:00:12

that. You're going to create ruts that are a

1:00:14

problem then as soon as that

1:00:16

dries and until like the landowner comes through and

1:00:19

fixes that. So yeah, I think

1:00:22

foot traffic is very important to

1:00:25

these people. So know that you're

1:00:27

still going to be

1:00:29

walking. Yeah, being by

1:00:31

yourself. I think

1:00:34

if you can be specific about

1:00:36

where you'd like to

1:00:39

hunt or what part of the property

1:00:41

you're interested in, that'll leave

1:00:43

their mind about shooting one of their

1:00:45

horses or their cattle or

1:00:48

something like that. Make

1:00:50

sure you don't shoot when there's a house behind where you're

1:00:52

shooting at. I've heard

1:00:55

that strong advice that

1:00:57

shouldn't do that. At

1:01:00

least from the camera angle, right? Yeah. Oh

1:01:04

man. No, this is really, really good

1:01:06

advice buddy. I

1:01:08

think maybe what's to my

1:01:10

advantage the most is I am

1:01:13

often hunting in places where the white

1:01:15

tail is significantly less respected than

1:01:18

in other parts of the country.

1:01:20

It's the reason I love Western white tails and

1:01:23

why when I'm planting my fall, I'm

1:01:26

often hunting west of

1:01:28

the Missouri River. I love hunting in

1:01:30

the Dakotas and Nebraska and Montana and

1:01:32

Wyoming. This year I got a white

1:01:35

tail tag for Idaho and my plan

1:01:37

for Idaho is to knock on a

1:01:39

lot of doors and

1:01:41

get permissions because- Don't

1:01:44

come to my place. Okay. You're not going to,

1:01:46

yeah, I'll find on X and I'm not going

1:01:48

to knock on Mark Canyon's door, but

1:01:51

these people just- Get the hell out of

1:01:53

here. They tend to really not care about

1:01:55

white tails. Well, I shouldn't say in some

1:01:57

cases, you're far more likely to find a

1:01:59

landowner who's like- Yeah, you want

1:02:01

to on whitetails? Go ahead. Yeah, I don't

1:02:03

care if I was asking for elk hunting

1:02:05

permission Right, that'd be a totally different story

1:02:07

and and I don't I've never asked for

1:02:09

elk hunting permission Anywhere because

1:02:11

I think you know that'd be the equivalent

1:02:13

of asking for whitetail hunting

1:02:15

permission in like Northern Missouri or

1:02:18

Southern Iowa, it's just no

1:02:20

significantly less likely To

1:02:22

happen in a place where the whitetail is

1:02:24

held to a very high regard And

1:02:27

so that's you know why I love

1:02:30

hunting whitetails out here You're

1:02:33

just generally dealing with folks who don't give

1:02:35

a crap and you'll often hear the the

1:02:37

line that's like Sure,

1:02:39

but you know you can only hunt if

1:02:42

you shoot five of them or something like

1:02:44

that Yes, because it's in some cases it's

1:02:46

uh it Their

1:02:48

stance on whitetails is not only neutral,

1:02:50

but it's negative like yeah You know

1:02:52

they're they're driving out the mule deer.

1:02:54

They're eating all my hay bales or

1:02:56

whatever And so that's you

1:02:59

know I think for

1:03:01

the listeners know that That

1:03:03

should be the lens you see it through and

1:03:06

I'm when I'm giving this advice is I'm often

1:03:09

Getting a enormous head start by

1:03:11

seeking whitetail on in permission in the places

1:03:13

that I do Yeah,

1:03:16

but didn't you mean your stuff worked

1:03:18

in Texas even too right um that

1:03:20

that was a weird situation where? Yeah,

1:03:22

I I sent out letters to Texas

1:03:25

landowners Which is

1:03:27

a different that seems very low odds. Yes.

1:03:29

Well what ended up happening was a Landowner

1:03:33

that I got permission from in Montana

1:03:35

happened to also have land in Texas

1:03:38

That I that I went down and I hunted on

1:03:41

but I also I tried Texas It

1:03:43

wasn't near successful, and I lived in Illinois for

1:03:45

a while Right and that's

1:03:48

that was the hardest place for me to get

1:03:50

permission in fact I got zero permission when

1:03:53

I lived in Illinois, so the advice

1:03:55

that I'm giving Has

1:03:57

worked for left of the Missouri River

1:04:00

But it's probably less likely to work

1:04:02

on the right side, but you

1:04:04

know there's certainly things that that you

1:04:06

can do That would

1:04:08

be very specific to your region to work in it. I

1:04:11

think the last thing I would say is You

1:04:14

know I feel like in the business world. They

1:04:16

say like always be networking or whatever That's

1:04:19

how I am with hunting permissions when I'm at a

1:04:21

wedding And you know the

1:04:23

small talk starts with a stranger I'm

1:04:26

always like trying to feel them out for

1:04:29

if they own land or not if I'm

1:04:31

at a bar And I belly up next

1:04:33

to somebody who you know we start talking

1:04:35

to I'm

1:04:38

always always looking for hunting permission, and

1:04:40

so I think that's something to do

1:04:42

no matter what part of the

1:04:44

country you live in Yeah,

1:04:47

yeah, very very good advice, and I want to

1:04:50

Make a point to say that even though

1:04:52

your experience set has been west of the

1:04:54

Mississippi River Missouri River He's

1:04:56

in Mississippi Everything you said

1:04:58

absolutely works east of it, too Like you're

1:05:00

very much in line with my approach in

1:05:02

a lot of ways and it has worked

1:05:05

east of the Mississippi It's just like the

1:05:07

it's a numbers game that is different So

1:05:09

might might work one out of ten times

1:05:11

for you west and it might work

1:05:13

You know one out of a hundred times to the east

1:05:15

So it's just a matter of like you just have to

1:05:17

have a larger sample size when you're trying to do it

1:05:19

out here Yeah, but I

1:05:22

think it's really really good advice, so I

1:05:24

appreciate you sharing this Spencer and

1:05:26

there are more New

1:05:28

trivia related board game products coming

1:05:31

out this fall You

1:05:33

know we'll probably announce them this summer, and they'll

1:05:35

be for sale in October or November And

1:05:38

I hope that they'll find a place in your deer camp, and if

1:05:40

you don't have a deer camp I hope they'll find a place in

1:05:43

the glove box of your pickup Because

1:05:46

this game is mobile it was made by

1:05:48

a deer hunter for deer hunters And

1:05:51

it's not exclusively for the kitchen

1:05:53

table I can go wherever you

1:05:55

go and our products coming out this

1:05:57

year will also reflect that Awesome,

1:06:00

man. Well, uh Great

1:06:03

job with the podcast great job with the board

1:06:05

game We are

1:06:07

going to be playing it at our turkey camp

1:06:09

come here in a few weeks So it will

1:06:11

it will find its way to probably the top

1:06:13

of a cooler or something in a barn Good

1:06:16

with a bunch of guys hunt glad to hear

1:06:18

that So last thing I would say mark is

1:06:20

when it happens for you and you get permission

1:06:22

and you've haunted their place Just

1:06:25

like go way way over the top with

1:06:27

how excited you are and how gracious you

1:06:29

are and You know

1:06:31

in my case I don't have to fake it

1:06:34

because I am stoked and I I do appreciate

1:06:36

you know the opportunity They've given me and make it

1:06:38

very clear that like You

1:06:40

are thrilled to haunt this place and

1:06:43

you're very thankful And it'd be

1:06:45

like you know if you were a guest on a

1:06:47

podcast and you're like man mark. It

1:06:49

was a pleasure This was so much fun. Thank

1:06:51

you. You've got a beautiful show here Yeah,

1:06:54

I I had you know the time of my

1:06:56

life. I really appreciate you Lending

1:06:59

me again be a guest here and yeah

1:07:01

next time I would love to do this again if you'd

1:07:03

allow me to Hunt again in

1:07:05

the future or be a guest and again in the

1:07:07

future. You know would mean the world to me Well,

1:07:12

so here's the thing though now I don't know

1:07:14

like are you just saying that because you want

1:07:16

to get invited again the no or did you

1:07:18

really enjoy it? You

1:07:21

don't know then I think I did a good job You

1:07:24

did Spencer. Thank you. Thanks mark All

1:07:28

right, that is a wrap thanks for tuning in

1:07:31

Thank you for being a part of this community. Thanks

1:07:34

for making this something that I'm excited about

1:07:36

every day and I'd

1:07:39

say until next time let's stay

1:07:42

wired to hunt You Hey

1:07:51

guys turkey season is in full swing right now,

1:07:53

and if you are planning on getting after it

1:07:56

Make sure to pick up some meat

1:07:58

eater Phelps turkey coffee to stuff

1:08:00

into the old turkey vest or into your fanny

1:08:03

pack right now. I carry a

1:08:05

few different things. I like to use mouth

1:08:07

calls and I like to use pot calls.

1:08:09

Mouth calls or diaphragms, I like them because it

1:08:11

gives you hand free calling, meaning when you're working

1:08:14

a bird up close, you can have

1:08:16

your gun on your knee, finger on the

1:08:18

trigger, ready to roll and still be making

1:08:21

turkey sounds. I like pot calls

1:08:23

because I just like pot calls. I enjoy calling

1:08:26

with a pot call. Whatever direction

1:08:29

you go, including a

1:08:31

box call, which I don't personally

1:08:33

use too much, but they're fun and great and I

1:08:35

started out with them. Yanni, on

1:08:37

the other hand, one of my

1:08:39

main turkey hunting buddies, he loves box calls. And

1:08:42

what's funny is I'll now and then look to

1:08:44

him and give him the look that

1:08:46

means, get out your box call

1:08:48

and find us a turkey. So, it's not

1:08:50

that I don't like them, I just have

1:08:52

Yanni use his. Then I don't have to

1:08:54

carry it. Go to Phelps Game Calls. Get

1:08:57

calls that are made in the USA and

1:08:59

get calls that will get them close. Find

1:09:02

yours at phelpsgamecalls.com

1:09:04

today.