What does justice mean for animals? Is justice for animals the same as justice for human beings? Why should we care more about the rights of animals when the rights of humans are so often neglected?

Martha Nussbaum teaches philosophy, ethics, and law at the University of Chicago, and is one of the most influential and cited philosophers of our time. She’s written dozens of books on Greek philosophy, the importance of emotions in politics, justice, feminism, and many other topics. She joins the podcast to discuss her new book, Justice for Animals: Our Collective Responsibility.

Shadi begins the conversation by inquiring about the moral motivations behind Professor Nussbaum’s advocacy for animal rights. He also wonders how human beings can, given their finite resources and time, focus on animal rights over other issues, like war or poverty. Nussbaum pushes back, arguing that animal rights is only one part of a web of issues, like overpopulation and climate change, that have to be addressed holistically. Sam provides some philosophical background, placing Nussbaum’s thought within the context of her work as a whole, which is focused on justice, freedom, and human flourishing.

It’s an energetic episode, where three sharp minds constantly challenge each other to clarify their thoughts. Ultimately, the question of the meaning of life—both for animals and humans—emerges, as Nussbaum asks whether death should be perceived as something negative, and Shadi considers the significance of belief in the afterlife.

Required Reading:

* Justice for Animals: Our Collective Responsibility by Martha Nussbaum.

* “Mortal Immortals: Lucretius on Death and the Voice of Nature,” by Martha Nussbaum (Philosophy and Phenomenological Research).

* “The Dilemmas of Living in a Post-Religious World,” by Shadi (Washington Post).

* 1966 Animal Welfare Act.

* 1918 Migratory Bird Treaty Act.

* R. M. Hare (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy).

* Epicurus (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy).

* Lucretius (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy).

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