0:00

I would take a fairly heavy lifting program

0:02

and just continue it into the fat loss phase

0:04

, and you might even have to reduce the volume

0:06

a little bit , which could be as simple as

0:09

doing one less set

0:11

on some of the exercises or doing

0:13

one less movement for the session . And

0:16

the goal here with all of fat loss

0:18

is to keep the stress as low as possible in

0:20

our body to allow that process to

0:22

continue naturally , and

0:24

if you're doing too much that could be a problem . Welcome

0:29

to the Wits and Weights podcast . I'm

0:31

your host , philip Pape , and this twice a week podcast

0:33

is dedicated to helping you achieve

0:36

physical self-mastery by getting stronger

0:38

, optimizing your nutrition and upgrading

0:40

your body composition . We'll uncover science-backed

0:43

strategies for movement , metabolism

0:49

, muscle and mindset , with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry , so you can look and feel

0:51

your absolute best . Let's dive right in Wits

0:56

and Weights community . Welcome to another bonus episode

0:59

of the Wits and Weights podcast . This

1:01

conversation is from my appearance on Megan

1:03

Dallman's podcast Self-Care

1:06

Simplified . Megan invited me

1:08

on her show to dig into the strategies

1:10

that actually work for sustainable

1:13

fat loss , especially for those in midlife

1:15

. We discussed the difference between

1:17

weight loss and fat loss and

1:19

how to lose fat while maintaining muscle

1:22

mass . I shared my insights on why

1:24

the approaches that worked in our 20s might

1:26

not be as effective in our 40s , 50s

1:28

and beyond . Throughout our conversation

1:31

, we covered the importance of understanding body

1:33

composition and its role in fat loss

1:35

. I also shared three guiding

1:37

principles for achieving true , sustainable

1:40

fat loss and how to incorporate them into

1:42

your life . If you've ever felt

1:44

frustrated , confused or defeated

1:46

in your pursuit of fat loss , this

1:49

episode will break it down into simple , attainable

1:51

steps . Enjoy my conversation

1:53

with Megan Dahlman on Self-Care

1:56

Simplified .

1:57

Well , hey , philip , welcome to the podcast

1:59

. I'm super excited to have you here with us , so

2:01

thanks for being here , megan it's good to see you again .

2:03

Thanks for having me on to have you here with us . So thanks for being here .

2:05

Megan , it's good to see you again . Thanks for having me on . Well , I'm really excited about

2:07

this conversation and I know everybody's leaning

2:09

in a little bit . We're still

2:11

towards the beginning of the year , you know February

2:14

. We kind of still have some of those

2:16

resolutions in our mind and I know

2:18

I just know a lot of women

2:21

listening right now had the goal of

2:23

. You know , it would sure be great to

2:25

lose some fat this year , to lose

2:27

a little bit of weight and to

2:29

feel a little trimmer , a

2:31

little fitter , a little leaner

2:33

. But it always feels

2:35

like fat loss in general , like

2:38

achieving that is kind of like finding

2:40

the Holy Grail . It's

2:43

difficult , it's confusing

2:45

. There are a million strategies out there

2:48

. A lot of them are wrong and

2:50

I don't know if you've seen um at

2:52

a grocery store , like just in the checkout stand

2:55

, some of the magazines .

2:57

I just laugh . It's . It's an ongoing joke with my

2:59

wife and I blast fat fast

3:01

.

3:01

It's just like , no , that's not

3:03

going to do it , not going to do it , and so I think

3:05

, unfortunately , that's why a lot of people

3:08

get so discouraged by

3:10

the process . So I'm hoping today we can help

3:12

to really clarify things and make it feel

3:16

like , okay , this is not overwhelming , this

3:18

is doable , if this is the goal . So

3:20

, coming out of the gate , let's just start with

3:22

just clarifying

3:25

what we're talking about here . I know we use

3:27

the words body composition a

3:29

lot . Can you clarify

3:31

for us what body composition actually

3:34

means and then maybe the difference between

3:36

weight loss and fat loss

3:39

?

3:39

Oh , I love that one . I think that's core to everything

3:41

, really . I did a whole episode about that a while

3:43

back , called fat lossoss vs Weight Loss

3:46

. The fitness industry is

3:49

laser-focused on marketing

3:51

based on the number on the scale . I've

3:54

seen so many people gain

3:57

a newfound freedom , not just on the

3:59

food side but with their fitness and

4:01

with their body image , by

4:03

letting go of that number and

4:06

embracing muscle , embracing what

4:08

we call body composition , which is just the ratio

4:10

of fat to muscle . And

4:13

we have a lot of things in our body , right . We have tissue

4:16

, water , bones , organs

4:18

, all of that , but there's not a lot we have

4:20

direct control of , as we

4:22

do , skeletal muscle . And

4:24

it's a beautiful thing , because from

4:27

the age of 30 , I think , to 70

4:29

, we lose around 30 to 40%

4:31

of our muscle mass if

4:34

we are not doing something to hold onto

4:36

it and to build it . Conversely

4:39

, a recent study came out that showed 80 and 90

4:41

year olds can build brand new muscle tissue

4:44

. So this is a very positive .

4:45

Say that a little louder for the people in the back that

4:48

is so important to hear .

4:51

Yeah , no matter what age you are , because , let's

4:53

be honest , most of us aren't going to make it past 100

4:55

. So , basically , your entire life , you

4:57

can take an action and get a result

4:59

that builds more muscle on your

5:01

frame . And that's a beautiful

5:04

thing , it really is . I used

5:06

to be chasing

5:08

the diets and chasing the scale

5:12

myself for many years , insecure

5:15

about my body , and it wasn't until I started

5:17

training and gaining

5:19

weight and building muscle that I realized

5:21

oh , everything else gets a lot

5:23

easier , including fat loss

5:26

, when you build muscle first . And

5:29

by the way , by first I just mean , unless

5:32

it's an emergency that you lose weight , like

5:34

for your health . Right now , if

5:36

you have a little quote unquote weight to lose or you're

5:38

a little fluffy kind of what we talked about on my show

5:41

, I still am going to encourage you to build

5:43

muscle first because you could , as

5:49

a beginner , you can burn muscle or you can burn fat and build muscle at the same

5:51

time pretty easily . So , yeah , body composition is just how much muscle

5:53

you have , how much fat you have . We don't care about the number

5:56

, we just care about moving

5:58

it in the right direction .

5:59

Yeah . So then , when we're talking about the difference between

6:01

weight loss and fat loss , it

6:04

would really be so helpful in our minds

6:06

to say , like I need to stop using

6:08

the terminology of I need to lose weight

6:10

because , like , really

6:12

, when it comes down to us , we don't really want

6:14

to lose weight at all costs . Like it's

6:17

the fat , in particular , that that we

6:19

want to lose . Like we should be wanting

6:21

to gain other things , like gaining muscle

6:23

, gaining bone density , gaining that muscle

6:26

glycogen , gaining that other

6:28

stuff , and I think that's why you know what

6:30

you said . Like the scale is really confusing

6:32

and it doesn't tell us the whole picture at all

6:34

.

6:35

No , not at all , especially for a newer-ish

6:38

lifter , and I know a lot of your listeners

6:40

maybe listened to your recent episode

6:42

about how to get started lifting weights . Of

6:45

your listeners maybe listen to your recent episode

6:47

about how to get started lifting weights . I'm

6:51

envious of people who are in that phase because you can make so much progress

6:53

fairly easily with just being a little consistent and what usually

6:55

happens , at least when I work with my clients a

6:57

lot of them have been lifting , but some haven't been lifting

6:59

effectively , let's just say with progressive

7:01

overload and I don't know how many terms

7:04

the audience isn't familiar with . But that's just

7:06

challenging your muscles more and more so

7:08

that they grow . The

7:11

first , let's say , one to three months

7:13

, you don't have to lose any weight at all

7:15

. You can just lift weights , dial in

7:17

your nutrition , definitely get your pros , your protein

7:19

, as Megan talks about , and

7:22

stay the same scale

7:24

weight but actually improve your body composition . Now

7:27

at some point , everyone's

7:29

listening here saying , well , I still have a little extra

7:31

weight beyond that . I

7:33

built it up over the years and I want

7:36

to reveal that muscle that you're telling me to

7:39

build . Okay , then we would go into

7:41

a deliberate fat loss phase . You

7:44

might be thinking of bodybuilders and chicken

7:46

and broccoli , or chicken and rice

7:49

, chicken and broccoli and extreme

7:51

leanness and all that . It doesn't

7:53

have to be like that at all . We can actually sustainably

7:56

lose fat at a reasonable rate

7:58

while holding onto our muscle

8:00

, so that it is fat that we lose

8:02

right and come out

8:04

the other side after three months

8:07

and in the future when you

8:09

do a fat loss phase , it may not take more than one

8:11

or two months to where nine , 10

8:13

, 12 months of the year you

8:15

are not dieting right . And doesn't that sound great

8:17

to not be dieting most of the time ?

8:19

Yeah , I think it's great . So going

8:21

into what you're saying

8:23

is like really true , sustainable

8:25

fat loss is what we want to achieve

8:28

here , not like this extreme

8:30

I'm going to just cut

8:32

and like get rid

8:34

of a ton of weight all at once , because we

8:37

really are . We now know it's . It's really

8:39

just the fat on our body that we want to improve

8:41

that body composition of lowering the

8:43

amount of fat

8:45

that's on our frame while building at

8:48

least the very minimum maintaining

8:50

the muscle that we have on our frame . So

8:53

what should be our three

8:55

big guiding principles for this

8:57

? I know you did a podcast recently on this on

8:59

your show Wits and Weights the

9:03

actual like

9:05

simple strategies for fitter , leaner

9:07

body , like everything you need to know about fat loss , and there

9:09

was these three big guiding principles that

9:11

you had . Can you share those with us ?

9:13

If I get these right , Cause I , I , uh , I

9:15

have a lot of threes . Um , I

9:17

think these are .

9:18

I love number three too , as you know

9:20

exactly . Um just magical

9:22

.

9:23

So I think the first big one is building muscle

9:25

, right , as we talked about to not

9:28

only building but preserving muscle , because

9:30

before fat loss you

9:32

want to build as much muscle as possible which

9:34

increases your basal metabolic rate

9:36

, your metabolism . You burn more muscle just

9:39

existing 24 hours around the clock

9:41

. It's not an insane amount

9:43

Like . Let's be realistic , let's be evidence-based here

9:45

. For

9:52

every pound of muscle it's probably six to nine calories . So

9:54

if you gain 10 pounds of muscle , you might burn up to 100 extra calories

9:57

. That's still meaningful , right ? 100 calories is a good cushion . And

9:59

then , beyond that , having that extra muscle , that

10:01

metabolically flexible , expensive

10:04

tissue , cascades into other things

10:06

you can push harder in the gym , you

10:08

have lower stress , you can sleep

10:10

more , better recovery , better

10:12

injury , lower inflammation , more

10:15

bone density , on and on and on . Muscle

10:17

is king , and so

10:19

it just makes all the other decisions

10:21

you make for fat loss easier , including

10:24

the amount of calories you want to eat to go

10:26

into that deficit . So the

10:29

other thing about muscle is when

10:31

you're losing weight . I meant

10:33

to say this earlier and I forgot to , but about

10:36

a quarter of the weight you lose

10:38

is muscle if you are not

10:40

strength training . So get that

10:42

into your head . If you lost 20 pounds

10:44

on a diet , up

10:46

to five of that could be muscle . When

10:49

you gain the weight back which guess what 95%

10:51

of people do within five years you're

10:53

gaining all fat back . And so if you're

10:56

140 pound female and

10:58

you lose 20 pounds and then you gain it back and you

11:00

lose it , and you gain it back , and you lose it and you gain it back , you

11:02

are just worsening your body composition

11:05

, even at the same scale weight . So

11:07

the opposite of that is you're strength

11:09

training while you're in a deficit and

11:11

then your body is going to say well , your muscles

11:14

are so important to you right now , I'm going to

11:16

shuttle all those nutrients to rebuild them

11:18

as I can , even if it's not new tissue

11:20

, just to keep at status quo , and

11:22

we're going to take the rest of the energy from your fat cells and

11:25

that's how we lose fat . So that's the first

11:27

one .

11:27

That's the first one First one is muscle . Yeah

11:29

, building the muscle , and I think you said that . The other

11:31

one is well , the

11:33

principle is like building

11:36

muscle makes fat loss easier and

11:38

then preserving that muscle should

11:41

be another guiding principle of doing everything we can

11:43

right To keep that whatever muscle we have

11:45

on our body .

11:46

Yeah , yeah , it's just focusing on the body composition

11:48

. And one of the mistakes people

11:51

make during fat loss besides doing too much

11:53

cardio , which is a mistake we can

11:55

talk about is they

11:57

think the training has to be more high

11:59

rep training to burn fat . That's

12:01

the thought , and this is a really important

12:03

point , because I will see someone who has

12:05

kind of gotten their act together in the training

12:07

department . They're doing the 6 to 12 reps

12:10

or four to six or whatever heavy lifting

12:12

, and then a switch goes

12:14

on it's fat loss time and they start doing

12:16

a six day a week

12:19

15 to 20 rep program on

12:21

a YouTube influencer's program

12:23

to burn fat . And

12:26

that's not what we want to do . If anything , I

12:28

would take a fairly heavy lifting program

12:30

and just continue it into the fat loss phase

12:32

, and you might even have to reduce the volume

12:34

a little bit , which could be as simple as

12:36

doing one less set

12:39

on some of the exercises or doing

12:41

one less movement for the session . And

12:44

the goal here with all of fat loss

12:46

, is to keep the stress as low as possible in

12:48

our body to allow that process to

12:50

continue naturally , and

12:52

if you're doing too much , that could be a problem .

13:01

I agree with you 100% . It's so interesting . I overheard a conversation . I was in a parking

13:03

lot waiting for my son to get done with soccer and it was a beautiful day , so

13:05

the windows were opening and open . I was just sitting

13:07

in the car and I overheard this guy in the

13:09

car next to me that was having a conversation on his

13:11

phone . He said I really have got to get

13:13

this fat off . So like he was talking about

13:15

like needing to lose weight and he's like so I've committed

13:18

that I'm not going to strength train

13:20

for the next three months and I'm only going to do

13:22

cardio . And I just wanted to like

13:24

jump through the window and be like

13:26

no , you're doing this absolute

13:29

opposite . And I think we have it in our

13:31

brains that like strength

13:34

training and pushing heavy

13:36

weights especially once we get to that point where we're

13:38

actually lifting weights like that's the

13:40

thing that makes us big , the thing

13:42

that makes us smaller . Because often when our

13:44

in our mind , we're like , when I want to lose

13:46

weight , I want to be smaller . So

13:48

the thing that makes me smaller is

13:50

going to be the cardio or the high

13:52

reps , low weight , because that's always

13:55

what I've been told tones me and I want

13:57

to tone like that sounds nice and

13:59

we just kind of have it all backwards . So I'm

14:02

so glad that you touched on that . And then I think

14:04

the third guiding principle that you had is

14:07

you can't once you get

14:09

through this , you can't maintain

14:11

what you've achieved if you're

14:13

doing about it with something extreme

14:16

.

14:16

Yeah , I think we're talking about having a more

14:18

flexible , sustainable approach

14:20

, right , a holistic , flexible , sustainable approach

14:22

. Again

14:24

, the diet switch goes on for a lot of people when they

14:26

think of weight loss or fat loss , where

14:28

all of a sudden they need to cut things out . And

14:31

the easiest way people do this and

14:33

by easy , that's not a compliment in

14:35

this context is cutting out food groups

14:37

, cutting out carbs , cutting something

14:39

out . I like

14:42

you to establish a solid

14:44

nutrition approach with high protein , high

14:46

fiber , like adding in all the good foods

14:48

and learning how to have that skill of eating

14:51

in a balanced way before you even do a

14:53

fat loss phase . Have that set up

14:55

for success , have the hydration , figure

14:58

out , your supplementation , like all of that , and

15:00

then the fat loss is just scaling things

15:03

appropriately with that skillset , right

15:05

. So it's not just cutting everything out

15:07

. Now , that's not to say there's not a form

15:09

of restriction . Let's be honest To

15:17

lose fat to go into calorie deficit , you are restricting calories . You are , but you can do

15:19

it in a way that feels not restrictive compared to any other

15:21

approach . So we just

15:23

have to acknowledge that .

15:24

Let's definitely talk strategy now

15:26

. So what do you believe ? And

15:28

I know you did an episode on this not long ago

15:30

and you listed out like six

15:33

or eight different strategies for

15:35

fat loss , but I'd love to kind of park on

15:37

the first three that you had mentioned , and those

15:39

were strength training , protein and

15:41

even the tracking piece . So let's

15:43

talk a little bit more about strength

15:46

training and we dabbled with

15:48

it earlier but how is strength

15:50

training connected to

15:52

fat loss ?

15:53

One purpose and one purpose alone , and that is maintain

15:55

muscle mass . That's why we strength train

15:57

. That's it . I

16:00

alluded to the programming a little bit and

16:02

, without getting too technical , there's

16:05

different terms we use in lifting . One of those is intensity

16:08

, and by intensity we mean the weight

16:10

on the bar or the weight in the dumbbell or the load

16:12

, not how hard you're working

16:14

out or how much you're sweating , and so

16:16

if you can prioritize that

16:19

, it's going to be more important than anything

16:21

else . So what that gives

16:23

you is , instead of what we talked about before

16:26

, this high muscle endurance , burn

16:28

fat approach . It may only be

16:30

three days in the gym , two or

16:32

three movements heavy , with

16:34

very little time in the gym , to be honest , and that's

16:36

enough to maintain that muscle mass . For

16:38

some people it's even less than that . If you're older , if

16:40

you've got joint issues you know

16:43

you're dealing with , you know back issues , whatever it

16:45

might be a quarter

16:47

of the volume that you normally do when you're eating

16:49

more food to maintain your mass , muscle

16:51

mass , and that's enough . So just

16:54

to simplify for everyone , it's not like you have to

16:56

totally change everything to do that .

16:58

No , that's so good to know , because we have this in our

17:00

minds , like , if I want to

17:02

lose fat , I'm going to

17:04

now have to , like

17:07

work out for an hour and a half

17:09

every single day . And

17:11

and maybe that's

17:13

the approach that would be required if

17:16

your focus was not on the

17:18

muscle piece , if it was strictly just

17:20

burning calories , with no

17:22

regard to the

17:25

muscle component of it . Like , yeah , maybe

17:27

that's what it would take . It

17:29

wouldn't , though , but maybe . But

17:31

when your focus is on the muscle

17:34

, like

17:36

, let me do everything I can to build and maintain muscle during

17:38

this season where I'm trying to work

17:40

on getting rid of some of this excess fat , it

17:43

really is not . It's not that much

17:46

. Like you don't have to do that much ?

17:47

No , and we can measure this , like

17:49

when you're building and you are not in

17:51

a diet . How do you measure your muscle

17:54

mass ? Well , you measure it through your lifts

17:56

, continuing to progress , and

17:58

you could even take body measurements Like your biceps

18:01

and thighs tend to go up in circumference

18:03

more than , say , your waist

18:05

, or your chest might go up as well During

18:08

fat loss . How do you measure that you're not losing

18:11

muscle mass ? Well , chances

18:13

are your strength will start to plateau

18:15

, but it shouldn't really regress and

18:18

your muscle mass shouldn't

18:20

change very much in terms of your circumference

18:22

measurements . So if

18:24

you feel like you are actively

18:27

building muscle , you may not be building new

18:29

muscle , you're at least holding on to it . So that's

18:31

just a little bit of what

18:33

we track in addition to scale weight . Yeah , that's

18:35

so good .

18:36

So is cardio ever

18:38

okay in the picture here

18:40

, when we're in this phase

18:43

where we're like I want to be losing

18:45

some body fat , where does cardio

18:47

fit in ? Should it never

18:49

be part of our plan , or is there a

18:52

specific point where it could be

18:54

okay for us ?

18:55

So this is what I like to say that you don't

18:57

need cardio for fat loss . That's

18:59

the first prerequisite , very

19:01

important . So if you didn't do cardio

19:03

at all , you can still lose fat . However

19:06

, we know cardio has benefits

19:08

cardiovascular benefits , hence the name

19:10

and it also can

19:13

bump the needle a little bit on your expenditure

19:15

or your calorie burn . I like to

19:17

split cardio into the different modes . We've

19:19

had very low intensity , steady

19:22

state cardio , which would be like walking probably

19:24

fits in there , or even moderate biking

19:27

. We have medium intensity

19:29

, which is what most people think of as

19:31

the rat race type cardio , when you're on the treadmill

19:33

and kind of running or whatever . And then you

19:36

have high intensity . People know

19:38

as hit right , which is short bursts

19:40

, it could be Tabatas , it could be sprint runs

19:42

, things like that . Um , any

19:44

of that can work to a certain extent

19:46

, as long as it doesn't impede your recovery

19:48

, your stress , your joint

19:50

health and your ability to build

19:52

muscle . Now you're like well , how do I know all that

19:55

? I like a rule of thumb of

19:57

no more than half the time you spend

19:59

lifting weights you do as medium or

20:01

high intensity cardio . So if

20:03

you're in the gym three days a week for an

20:05

hour , that's three hours . Don't do

20:07

more than , say , an hour and a half a week of intense

20:09

cardio , which is not that much . It's

20:13

not that much . Low intensity

20:15

cardio , though have at it . There's pretty much

20:17

no limit to that .

20:19

We're talking walking and biking very

20:25

low grade cardio , and that actually will burn a lot of calories if you step that up a bit during fat

20:27

loss . Well , and that was the next question I was going to ask you is like how does extra

20:29

movement fit in ? And I

20:31

know a lot of people and sometimes I'll get in . The trap

20:34

of this too is like you get up , you

20:37

have a really great workout in the morning and then you end up

20:39

like sitting the rest of the day . Yes , compensation

20:41

If you're someone that is wanting

20:44

to lose some body fat . How

20:49

can extra movement throughout the day maybe it's just going for a walk

20:52

, like a low intensity thing how

20:54

does that play a role in our results that we're going to experience ? I ?

20:56

think it's a huge role For my clients

20:58

. We usually try to step up the step count by

21:00

like two to 4,000 steps a

21:02

day as a proxy for that extra movement

21:04

. However you get it , so that could

21:06

just be walking around the house and doing chores

21:09

, parking

21:14

farther from the store , going upstairs and then deliberate walks that are part of your routine

21:16

. I don't like targets just for the sake of targets . I like

21:18

targets when you back them into habits

21:21

and things that you enjoy . So if your

21:23

goal is to get an extra 2000 steps , which is like

21:25

a mile of walking , you're not getting

21:27

an extra 2000 steps . You are getting a

21:29

mile after lunch every day

21:31

. That I put in my room you know my phone as a reminder

21:34

and I'm doing it because it helps my digestion

21:36

and my mood from the vitamin C and

21:38

I can listen to a podcast or whatever you know

21:40

like . It's a deliberate thing , not the

21:42

end goal .

21:44

It's having your physical activity

21:46

like that intentional physical activity , the

21:49

workout . You know what we would call probably call the workout

21:51

be the workout and then just being

21:53

someone that , outside of that planned

21:55

workout , is just someone that moves a lot

21:57

during the day . We need to talk

22:00

about your tight hips real quick . Did you know

22:02

that not having adequate mobility in

22:04

your hips can lead to a whole host

22:06

of problems like low back pain

22:08

and knee pain and , of course , hip pain

22:10

like sciatica and SI

22:13

joint problems ? Well , for most of

22:15

us , we sit a lot , which makes our

22:17

hips really tight , and then we

22:19

stand and walk around and we don't have

22:21

good posture when we do all that , so that

22:23

can make our hips tight too , and the biggest

22:25

culprit for that hip tightness is usually

22:28

your hip flexors . So I wanted

22:30

to help you with this and so I put together

22:32

a hip flexor stretching masterclass

22:35

. In this masterclass , I teach you

22:37

exactly how to properly

22:39

stretch and mobilize your psoas

22:42

and adductors and all those little

22:44

muscles that connect in through the front of your hips

22:46

. This relieves so much pressure off of your low back and makes your hips feel and move of your hips

22:48

. This relieves so much pressure off of your low back and makes your hips

22:50

feel and move so much better . This

22:52

masterclass is totally free and you can start

22:55

it today . Just go to VigeoFitcom

22:57

slash hips , or I will drop

22:59

the link in the notes . Go grab it . Okay

23:02

, back to the show . Well , let's talk a little bit more

23:04

about the nutrition aspect

23:06

. So biggest

23:08

thing with nutrition nutrition when it comes

23:11

to fat loss , what should be our primary

23:13

focus ?

23:13

Okay , and we can tie it in . I think the third

23:15

, the third strategy we were going to talk about

23:18

, is tracking . So I don't know , oh

23:20

yeah . The second one is protein . Okay , got it . Yeah

23:23

, let's do that . So , yeah

23:25

, protein , I mean I know you and I are fully on the

23:27

same page here . That is what's most efficient

23:29

in people's diets , men and women , but especially

23:32

women , who are probably under eating

23:34

by 70 to 90%

23:36

. I mean it's significant with

23:39

the protein , right , because I

23:42

do like numbers . So I like the target of

23:44

0.7 to one gram per pound

23:46

to get to that . Now , a lot

23:48

of people I work with are already lifting and kind of

23:50

nerding out on all this . You

23:52

know the macro stuff , but I

23:56

would start with are you eating protein

23:58

in every meal ? Right , are you eating protein every

24:00

meal ? Because most people aren't even doing that , and

24:03

the reason we want protein is not just

24:05

for building muscle and repairing

24:08

muscle . That's the core reason

24:10

for it . There are other benefits of protein

24:12

that , if we acknowledge them , drive

24:15

us to want to eat more . So one of those is

24:17

satiety , fullness , right . During

24:21

fat loss , the biggest struggle people have is

24:23

hunger . Hunger gets ramped up because

24:26

of the hormonal response to

24:28

this lack of energy in your body , right

24:30

Low energy availability , which ramps

24:32

up leptin and ghrelin and affects

24:35

your thyroid and cortisol and everything else , and

24:37

you just want to eat more and more . You get more and more

24:40

hungry . So we can eliminate

24:42

the hunger , but we can mitigate it , so we mitigate

24:44

it with fiber hydration

24:46

, protein Protein is the highest

24:48

satiety macro , more than

24:50

fats and carbs . We also

24:53

can use hard foods . We

24:55

can have broths , vegetable soups and broths

24:57

. We can eat high volume berries

25:00

and watermelon and other foods like that , even

25:02

though they're fruit , not bad for you , it's

25:04

okay , fruits have a lot fewer calories

25:06

than you think , and

25:08

so that's another reason for you . It's okay , fruits have a lot fewer calories than you think , and so that's another reason

25:11

for protein . Protein also burns more calories

25:13

when it gets digested than carbs

25:16

and fat . So what you see , especially

25:18

with women going from 40 grams

25:20

a day to 140 grams a day , is

25:22

not only are they getting fuller , their

25:25

metabolism creeps up a little bit just from

25:27

that , which is crazy , right , because

25:29

you're like , great , I'm

25:32

having my cake and eat it too , and then literally you can plan

25:34

in cake if you'd like , because we can talk about that

25:37

, and then finally , protein . If

25:40

you're trying to prioritize protein and you go to the grocery

25:42

store , it's hard not to get

25:45

mostly whole foods right the

25:47

plant-based proteins , animal

25:49

sources , it's all whole foods . So

25:51

it's just a great recipe for

25:53

scaling to the rest of your nutrition

25:55

.

25:55

That's so good , because I think earlier

25:57

we were talking about trying to create

26:00

a deficit , and I think sometimes

26:02

, yes , on paper , that's

26:04

what we need to

26:07

experience some form of fat loss . There

26:09

does need to be a deficit , and so our brains automatically

26:11

go to I need to eat less . And

26:14

I think what's so great about this approach is that actually

26:16

, when you ramp up your protein and

26:18

eat more protein , it ends up crowding

26:21

out the other splurge you

26:23

know , those splurge foods that

26:26

really have a negative impact on your ability

26:28

to lose fat so

26:30

it ends up not feeling so restrictive

26:33

, which is really cool , because I think

26:35

so many people have that experience

26:38

of like when they've tried to achieve fat loss

26:40

in the past . It was such a negative

26:42

experience because it was so restrictive

26:45

right , especially on the food side , yeah , and it's

26:47

in conjunction with the other things .

26:49

So , for example , the reason it probably felt

26:51

restrictive is not just because you were cutting out all

26:53

these foods you enjoy which is definitely a recipe

26:55

for binging those later on but

26:57

also because you were probably going so quickly

27:00

trying to lose the weight that that , just like

27:02

an exponential curve , it just ramped up all these

27:04

hunger signals . The loss of muscle

27:06

mass as well , when you dieted in the past

27:08

, exacerbates it further , because loss

27:11

of muscle creates an interesting side

27:13

phenomenon I think it's called hyperphagia or

27:15

something but it creates cravings

27:17

for high energy sources like sugars

27:20

, fats , carbs . So

27:22

it all comes together . The

27:24

funny thing is about fullness again , especially

27:26

for women who weren't eating much protein

27:28

before is before we even

27:30

do fat loss . I'm trying to get them

27:32

to eat more food , because they're

27:34

probably underfed to begin with , and when they add the

27:37

protein in , they're like how can I eat more ? I can't

27:39

eat more . We'll

27:41

titrate it up . We'll titrate it up and guess what ? You're going

27:43

to get a lot of that from carbs too , and that's always a big

27:45

shock , like , oh , I could eat carbs and

27:48

we get them to that maintenance level . That's

27:50

actually quite a bit higher than they thought . And

27:56

then when they go into the fat loss phase , it's like oh , this isn't so bad . We're just kind of cutting

27:58

back down to the feeling I used to have eating normally , but

28:00

now we're in a deficit . It really

28:02

is a beautiful thing .

28:03

And I think one of the biggest fears too . Whenever

28:05

you say like , fears

28:10

to , whenever you say like , boost some , like eat more of something , and especially

28:12

I get this pushback a lot of like how am I supposed to increase my protein and not gain

28:14

weight ? Like it doesn't make any sense to me . That

28:17

like . Wouldn't this be counter counterintuitive

28:19

? So I mean , apart

28:21

from the fact that it could potentially

28:23

crowd out other food on your plate that's not

28:26

as healthy , like what's the

28:28

best way to go about increasing our protein

28:30

intake and ensure that we're not also

28:33

simultaneously being counterproductive

28:35

here and gaining weight at the same time ?

28:38

It's a good one . I think of that in terms of protein

28:43

density . One time because I'm a data nerd , I

28:45

like spreadsheets I put together a huge

28:48

list of protein sources , everything you can imagine Lean

28:50

meats , dairies , even things that have a little

28:52

protein , like nuts because those aren't protein

28:54

sources per se and then

28:56

ranked them by how much protein they have

28:58

per 100 grams . And

29:01

when you get that you start to realize

29:03

oh okay , if I like steak , I

29:05

could eat sirloin or I could eat ribeye . If

29:08

you're educated on the fact ribeye has a lot more fat

29:10

, you're going to go with sirloin during fat loss

29:12

. They're still steak , they're still both delicious

29:14

. It's not like you're swapping it out for tofu

29:17

, right , nothing against tofu , just saying . And

29:20

then same thing with dairy

29:22

. Dairy

29:27

is a big one because for omnivores who have no intolerances , I love dairy

29:29

as a source of protein . Cottage cheese , greek yogurt , skier , even like

29:32

low fat type cheeses , like

29:34

provolone and mozzarella , and

29:36

Fairlife brand milk and things like that

29:38

. But when you're in a fat loss phase , you

29:40

got to watch out for the fat and you just have

29:43

to go toward the 2% 1% fat-free

29:45

versions . But we have modern food

29:47

science which gets vilified . But

29:49

there are brands like Oikos Zero

29:51

that uses , I don't know , monk fruit and stevia

29:54

to sweeten what's effectively

29:56

almost all protein and a little bit of carbs

29:58

. So that would be your answer

30:00

on how we shift the protein in

30:03

a fat loss phase just more protein-dense sources

30:05

.

30:05

Yeah , I love that . It's basically taking your

30:07

sources of protein and making sure

30:09

like really it's just protein

30:12

. There's a lot of foods that I say

30:14

are line straddlers , like they've got one

30:16

foot in one category

30:18

and another foot in another category . I

30:20

think beans are a great

30:22

example of that . They're protein , but

30:24

they're also a carbohydrate

30:27

, and most

30:29

proteins protein sources

30:31

have one foot on the protein

30:33

side of things and one foot on the fat side

30:35

. So it's like let's find the protein

30:38

sources that have pretty

30:40

much only a foot in protein

30:42

side , so lean sources

30:45

of protein , and that's going to ensure that you're not getting

30:47

excess calorie intake

30:49

from that .

30:50

Yeah , and I'll be honest , it will

30:52

feel a little bit not

30:55

artificial , but it'll feel a

30:57

little bit forced when you first learn that skill

30:59

because it's so different from what you've had in

31:01

the past and what the American kind of standard diet

31:03

gives you . Right , Protein

31:05

is more expensive . It's not profitable

31:08

for the food industry , so they don't

31:10

like putting protein in anything because

31:12

it costs too much money , which is

31:14

kind of an indication that it's maybe better and higher

31:16

quality food . But

31:18

the one thing I didn't mention was protein

31:21

powders . I'm perfectly fine with protein

31:23

powders . I think people need as much as somebody

31:26

lifting weights needs probably will

31:28

want to incorporate one or two scoops at

31:30

least a day of some sort of protein

31:32

powder . You don't have to . I encourage whole

31:34

foods , but there's nothing wrong with it . It's just very

31:37

mildly filtered milk .

31:38

Yeah , no , I totally agree . I think there's a really

31:41

great benefit for someone who struggles

31:44

to eat that much , and I think , as women

31:46

are getting older , you

31:53

kind of lose your appetite and you don't really want to be eating these giant meals

31:55

and going about the day feeling so full on protein . And I think this is a great place

31:57

where those protein supplements can really fill

31:59

in the gaps and make sure that your body is getting

32:01

as much protein as it needs . And

32:04

so let's kind of wrap up with this final

32:06

piece of the strategy plan

32:08

and that's the tracking piece . And

32:10

I know that this can feel really

32:13

hard for a lot of people that are

32:15

coming from a place of , like that , highly

32:17

restrictive or dieting background

32:19

. So what are some easy ways that

32:21

we can track our progress without

32:23

triggering that dieting

32:26

mindset ? Maybe they spent years

32:28

counting calories and they're like I don't want

32:31

to go back there , but I do

32:33

want to experience some fat loss

32:35

. So what would be some helpful ways to

32:38

do the tracking piece ? And

32:40

wait , let me start by just saying

32:43

why would that even be helpful ? Why

32:45

is tracking helpful in the first

32:47

place ?

32:48

I mean that's a good premise . You can't

32:50

measure anything that you don't track

32:53

. It's as simple as that . Just like with your budget

32:55

or your business right , Even

32:57

your relationships . I mean , you can track different

32:59

things and some things are more appropriate to track than

33:02

others with numbers . So

33:04

there are different levels of tracking

33:06

to track than

33:08

others with numbers . So there are different levels of tracking . And I know on my podcast you were

33:10

talking about developing habits and tracking checkmarks and things . That

33:12

is a form of tracking tracking how often you

33:14

get protein . For me

33:16

, specifically with my clients , they know coming

33:18

in I'm like the engineer and they're

33:20

going to get the full-on tracking experience

33:23

, but I like tools

33:25

for tracking that have the least friction

33:27

. So when you talk about counting calories

33:29

being tedious , I was in

33:31

that camp for years . I hated it because

33:34

the apps were terrible . They required way

33:36

too much time , they were cumbersome

33:38

, they were inaccurate , and if you

33:40

can have an app that's none of those things

33:42

as a tool , then that eliminates

33:45

those excuses and reasons that are not

33:47

the real reasons . You know what I mean . So

33:50

for me , the tracking , even

33:52

if you don't use it as a target , is

33:55

awesome for awareness . And

33:57

if you just track for three weeks

33:59

, even if you don't like it , track

34:01

everything you eat , measure it just so you know

34:03

what the macros are and take the information

34:06

and learn from it , Even if you never want

34:08

to track again . You're going to have so

34:10

much more agency and power over what you

34:12

eat because you know , hey

34:14

, I graze during the day , I eat

34:16

off my kid's plate , I have more alcohol

34:18

than I thought , the appetizers

34:21

and desserts on the weekend really add up

34:23

and then that's just information and

34:25

guess what you find ? A lot of people find that that

34:27

information then becomes something they

34:29

want more of because it empowers

34:31

them , and then we're able to just do that

34:34

for a while , especially

34:36

during fat loss , where I want you

34:38

to get it over with as quickly as possible and

34:40

not have to quote , unquote , suffer , because it's

34:42

not the most fun thing , even though we talked about

34:44

all this making

34:47

it as easy as possible . I want you to get it over

34:49

within I don't know 12 , 16 weeks max

34:51

. If you're not tracking and you're trying

34:53

to do it intuitively but you haven't developed the skill

34:55

, it's going to be harder to kind of go

34:57

down that trend line , get to that goal

34:59

and get out of it efficiently .

35:01

It really is just that awareness tool . It's a great

35:03

way to just keep things is

35:08

just that awareness tool . It's a great way to just keep things

35:10

top of mind . And I think the stats out there of how much people

35:12

underestimate how much they actually

35:14

consume and overestimate how much

35:16

they actually move is really

35:18

really kind of funny . And

35:21

once you just start journaling

35:23

it and just noticing what

35:25

your behaviors actually are objectively

35:28

not what you think they are , but what they

35:30

actually are it can be really eyeopening

35:32

. And , like you said , you can just do it for a short

35:35

period of time as just like a , an

35:37

awareness tool of like Whoa , I didn't

35:39

realize it was like that . Okay , now this helps

35:41

point me in a trajectory of like okay

35:43

, I need to pay a little bit more attention to the

35:46

alcohol that I consume or these

35:48

treats that I continue to keep eating . I'm starting to

35:50

see these patterns developing that I wasn't aware

35:52

of before . So I think that's so helpful

35:55

. And I think you know , as we're talking about

35:57

fat loss in general , I think

35:59

a lot of women listening may not

36:01

have been prepared to hear so much

36:03

about , like weightlifting and protein

36:06

, you know , and

36:08

it can feel like this would be a plan

36:10

for like a bodybuilder and

36:13

that it wouldn't work for their

36:15

you know , quote , unquote , their type of

36:17

fat loss . So what would you say to that

36:19

Like why ? Why does this work

36:22

for a woman that's in her forties , fifties

36:24

, sixties , who's like I'm

36:26

not a bodybuilder ? What are you talking about

36:28

? I don't want to be like lifting heavy

36:30

weights and just chugging the protein

36:33

. Why is this actually going to work for me ?

36:35

I mean that's , that's a great question . Um

36:37

, I mean , that's it's . It's how

36:40

the body works , it's our physiology , right

36:42

? Um , we know that muscle

36:44

is . If

36:46

you take out your bones and organs , all that's left is muscle

36:48

, and that's what moves us , that's what makes us functional and

36:50

interact with the world , and we're physical beings

36:53

. When you look at your parents

36:55

or grandparents when they get into their 60s and 70s

36:57

, what do you see walking

37:00

around ? You see people who are hunched over , who

37:02

are frail , who easily get injured , who

37:05

get put on lots of prescription medication

37:07

. One thing leads to another , and

37:09

the health span versus the lifespan

37:12

is so far apart that

37:14

our medical system is able to keep us alive

37:17

for 30 more years . But you're not going to enjoy those

37:19

30 years unless you're strong . And

37:22

then ladies with osteoporosis I

37:24

mean women have a disadvantage in that

37:26

from puberty , you have significantly

37:29

less muscle as a baseline versus

37:31

men . The positive thing is

37:34

, you can grow that muscle as a percentage

37:36

equally as effectively as men . And

37:39

that surprises a lot of women because they think that

37:41

because of this testosterone difference , they

37:43

can't build muscles quickly . That's not true . You

37:46

can build it as quickly as a percentage

37:48

, which , again , you have less muscle to begin with

37:50

. So I guess that that's why

37:52

it's important , and the

37:55

stuff that bodybuilders learned to

37:57

build that muscle just tends to help everyone

38:00

once you figure those out .

38:03

Yeah , and I love the side

38:05

effects of this type

38:07

of focus is that not only

38:09

are you going to experience fat loss

38:12

and , ultimately , a better body composition

38:14

, but at the same

38:16

time , like you said , you're improving

38:19

your overall functionality and

38:21

your longevity . Because the worst thing to do

38:23

would be , like , get to a point where , okay , you

38:25

lose all the fat and now your body's

38:27

in worse shape , you're more miserable , you

38:29

don't have good function , your joints

38:32

are a mess and , unfortunately , I think a lot of people

38:34

go down that road of I'm going to lose a fat

38:36

at all costs and

38:38

I'm actually not all that

38:40

much healthier after the fact

38:42

. So this method

38:45

is so much healthier in the long

38:47

run and and I appreciate that

38:49

that we're totally on the same page with that

38:51

. Well , to round things

38:53

out , I always like to leave people

38:55

with just like one quick tip

38:58

, one quick action step , and I I

39:00

didn't prepare you for this , so I'm kind of throwing it at

39:02

you . But what would you say to just the

39:04

woman that's listening that's like okay , I'm , I

39:06

know I'm embarking on

39:09

wanting to lose some body fat

39:11

, improving my body composition . I'm

39:13

feeling nervous and discouraged

39:16

with the process . What would

39:18

you say to her ? To just encourage her for

39:21

the road .

39:21

This is . I mean you were listening to Megan here on this

39:23

podcast and I think you have . You

39:26

have the tools and the support you need , with

39:28

others in your community , to make

39:30

this happen . Thousands of women

39:32

are doing this every day , even if it is not

39:34

the norm and it's not what the industry tells

39:37

you and the negativity

39:39

around body image and all of that . If

39:42

you want to be capable and strong and

39:44

be able to take care of your family and be confident

39:46

and all those things , it really does come down

39:49

to just focusing on your body and treating

39:51

it like a temple , like an athlete

39:53

. You wouldn't starve

39:56

your child . Don't starve yourself . Just

39:58

build it up and you'll

40:00

be your most beautiful self

40:02

doing that , building that muscle .

40:05

So good .

40:07

Thank you for tuning in to another episode

40:09

of Wits and Weights . If

40:15

you found value in today's episode and know someone else who's looking to level up their wits or weights

40:17

, please take a moment to share this episode with them and

40:19

make sure to hit the follow button in your podcast

40:22

platform right now to catch the next

40:24

episode . Until then , stay strong

40:26

.