0:00

Hi Catherine, Hi Chelsea, Greetings

0:03

from Whistler, Canada.

0:04

You guys got dumped on?

0:06

Oh gosh, I cannot

0:08

ski in deep powder. I got buried

0:10

like three times the other day. The powder

0:13

is so deep that I can't even navigate

0:15

it. I don't know which way to go, and then you fall down

0:17

and it takes forever to get your skis out because they're

0:19

under like six four I was under like four

0:21

feet of snow and I was hanging

0:23

upside down. At one point, I skied through

0:26

a tree, double ejected, went

0:28

through the woods. Finally, after the third tree I hit,

0:30

I was like, I think it's time to get out of the woods.

0:32

Yeah, it's just.

0:33

A hot mess up here. And now I have children

0:35

at my house.

0:36

My cousins are here, Molly and Carrie,

0:38

and they arrived with their three year old and four year

0:40

old girls, so that's cute. I don't

0:42

have children at my house very often.

0:44

You know that, little kids.

0:45

And then I had my other children

0:48

here, Katie, my little daughters, my twin

0:50

buddhas Katie and Jesse. And I

0:52

was trying to make Katie some food on Saturday night, so

0:54

I made a bunch of hamburger meat and she's

0:56

like, she calls me dad.

0:57

She goes, Dad, that's disgusting.

0:58

I'm not eating anything you cook, like you're not

1:00

a good cook, and we all know that we can't eat. I'm like,

1:02

all right, all right, I'm fine. I'm like it's good. I put

1:05

seasoning, I put onions. I'm like it's good, it's good.

1:07

And I took a bite. I'm like, oh, this is terrible.

1:10

You know, I destroy everything I cook. So

1:12

the next morning I gave it to Doug because

1:15

I, you know, I figured dogs like hamburger

1:17

meat. Doug has had an explosive diarrhea now for

1:19

forty eight hours.

1:20

Oh no, he exploded all over.

1:22

My carpet, and Molly, my cousin,

1:24

is trying to clean it up because she knows. I don't know how

1:26

to clean.

1:26

Up feces PSA.

1:28

Dogs are not supposed to have onions, so maybe

1:31

that is why.

1:32

Oh cool, what about hamburger

1:34

meat?

1:34

Though hamburger meat should be fine?

1:36

Yeah, I was like, what is it? Maybe too fatty

1:38

for him, that's why he got the diarrhea.

1:40

I don't know.

1:40

It's a hot shit show in this

1:42

house, though, you should. Literally this morning, the

1:44

dog walker friends coming going

1:47

diarrhea.

1:48

My friend stepped in the diarrhea.

1:51

How many of errors?

1:52

I added a new show in Prior Lake, Minnesota,

1:54

and then I added a new show in Santa Rosa,

1:56

California. Second shows

1:59

for that, so you can go to Chelseahandler dot com.

2:01

I'm kind of a Salt Lake city too, which

2:03

is exciting in April and Denver, Colorado.

2:06

So go to Chelsea Handler dot com for all my tickets

2:08

and we're going to be adding more and more dates.

2:11

Excellent, just always adding more dates.

2:13

That's always happening. That's a great thing.

2:14

This weekend I have Coloonna and Victoria

2:17

both are sold out, but Victoria

2:19

on Vancouver Island and then Colowna and

2:22

then I'm going to go to the Oscar parties on Sunday.

2:24

I think I can just get dressed up for the day

2:26

and then you.

2:27

Know, Nike more. That'll be fun.

2:29

Chelsea. It's International Women's Day this week?

2:32

Is it? Oh?

2:33

My goodness?

2:34

Happy International Women's Day.

2:37

We love women, women,

2:40

women, women, women, Chelsea.

2:42

Since it's International Women's Day, I wanted to

2:44

ask you, as women, what

2:46

are some ways that you feel we can regain our

2:48

power?

2:51

I think it's very important for you to be

2:53

honest with yourself and never

2:55

to sublimate your feelings for

2:58

the benefit of others.

3:00

Mm hmm.

3:00

I think you have to.

3:01

Really, there's such an overcorrection

3:04

that needs to be made in order for us to balance

3:06

out, because we have been fed

3:09

this whole song and dance, our whole lives that men

3:11

are just more valuable, and that's simply

3:13

not true.

3:14

We are valuable.

3:15

And to understand your value, you have to

3:17

be in a relationship with yourself,

3:20

to understand who you are, what you're

3:22

good at, what your strengths are, what your

3:24

weaknesses are. And once

3:26

you can figure those things out, like what you're

3:28

good at and what you're not good at, then you can excel

3:30

at the things you're good at and kind of minimize

3:34

your exposure to the things that don't bring you as much

3:36

joy and as much power. But I think the most

3:38

important thing is to always stand up

3:40

for yourself, to always, you know, be

3:43

your best ally.

3:44

Yeah, And one thing you talk about a lot is like

3:46

asking for what you want and asking for what you

3:48

need. And I was with someone this weekend

3:50

who you know, when she didn't want

3:52

to do something, she would say, oh, but you guys, go ahead.

3:55

I'm not going to, but you guys go ahead.

3:56

And I just was like, I want her to feel

3:59

confident in to say like, no, you know, let's

4:01

not do that.

4:02

I'm not really into that. Let's go to this other thing over

4:04

here. And I think the

4:06

more we can.

4:07

Work that muscle and gain that muscle,

4:10

the more powerful will be.

4:11

Yeah.

4:12

Absolutely, very important to always

4:14

just kind of I like to think of myself as

4:16

like my own little daughter. I'm

4:18

not going to ever let somebody hurt a little kid,

4:20

so I'm not going to let anybody hurt me either.

4:23

Yeah, you'd want hurt a stand up for herself, so like, let's

4:25

stand up for her.

4:26

M M.

4:26

I love that we have a very special

4:28

guest for International Women's Day. Her

4:31

ted talk has topped over twenty two million

4:33

views, Her reformation campaign

4:35

went viral this week, and her self care

4:37

and anti harassment activism

4:40

is widespread, including her most recent

4:42

anti bullying efforts with stand upto yourself

4:44

dot com. Please welcome producer,

4:47

activist, public speaker, and contributing

4:49

editor at Vanity Fair Monica Lewinsky.

4:53

I can't believe you're in my studio, but I'm

4:55

not there. Yeah, it's

4:57

so good to see you, Monica. Thank you so much for being our

4:59

special guest this very important

5:01

International Women's Day, which we should be

5:03

having more frequently than once a year. It

5:05

seems like, Monica, where do we meet?

5:08

We've met a couple times, right, Once this was with

5:10

Alissa.

5:11

Wright, who I love, and

5:13

I think we have Maria

5:15

Schreiber in common.

5:16

Yeah, we probably have some people in common. Well,

5:19

I was meaning to hang out with you at some point.

5:22

We still have to do that anyway, but now we're hanging

5:24

out here, so we'll start here. So

5:27

I'm very excited to talk to you because

5:29

obviously, well you've been a very public

5:31

figure for a very long time, and

5:34

now you have a huge, big perspective

5:37

on all of the things that you've been through.

5:39

So I'm sure the way that you look at things has probably

5:41

changed a lot since you were a young girl.

5:43

Right.

5:44

Absolutely.

5:45

I've had a lot, a lot of therapy

5:48

and like a lot of healing

5:50

modalities.

5:51

I do it all, so do you.

5:53

Oh yeah, My main therapist

5:55

is a trauma psychiatrist. I have a

5:57

somatic therapist I have.

6:00

I call him my energy worker, but he's like,

6:02

I don't know, it's

6:05

more resonance kind of resonance

6:07

work.

6:07

And I have a friend apist, and.

6:11

What is a friend to pist? I mean, obviously I can figure

6:14

that out.

6:14

Yeah, well, you know, it's someone

6:16

that I had started working with professionally,

6:19

not as a therapist, but in

6:21

other capacities. We became friends,

6:24

and then a few years ago I was going through

6:26

just challenging work stuff and

6:29

she kept stepping up to the plate so much,

6:31

and I was relying on her so much that I

6:33

just felt like, because

6:35

we had had a transactional

6:38

relationship before and now there was this deeper

6:40

connection, it just didn't feel

6:42

like an even exchange to me. So I

6:44

was like, I know, I'm going to just pay you a tiny

6:47

bit of money each week and then you

6:49

know, so it's great, because I just felt

6:51

like there needed to be an even exchange.

6:53

But I find what I find really valuable

6:56

is that I don't have to always wait until

6:59

my next therapy B session to process

7:01

something if it's really important.

7:03

Yeah, I want to catch our listeners up.

7:05

For anyone who's not familiar with Monica

7:07

or her story, this was

7:09

a very very long time ago. Let's

7:12

set the scene because this was before social media,

7:14

so we didn't have Instagram.

7:16

Or even Twitter.

7:16

At that time, we had nothing, and

7:19

you were caught up in a very, very,

7:22

the most public scandal of all

7:24

time probably or one of the most

7:26

public scandals of all time, and you were only a twenty

7:28

two year old girl. So your

7:30

Ted talk, which has received over twenty two million

7:33

views, was so moving because it is

7:36

on the subject of cyber bullying and

7:39

what you went through and the disparities

7:41

between men and women and cyber bullying.

7:43

So at that time, how

7:46

were you reading this stuff about yourself

7:49

that people were writing.

7:50

It was horrific.

7:51

I think in large part, I think it's challenging

7:53

for anybody in the public eye to

7:56

read or hear something negative about themselves,

7:59

but chosen to be a public

8:01

person. And I literally went

8:03

to bed one night a private person

8:05

and awaken the next morning and

8:08

there was my name above the fold on

8:10

the newspaper like So it was

8:12

a very jarring transition and obviously

8:16

not something people want recognition.

8:17

That's not what you want to become.

8:19

Known for, and so it was

8:21

quite challenging, and I think

8:24

I went through a period where I

8:27

became almost obsessed with the

8:29

negativity. But I also felt

8:31

in many ways that I had to follow along

8:33

with everything that was going on because

8:35

it was giving me clues to

8:38

what was happening legally, and even though

8:40

I had lawyers, I think we've all

8:42

gone through this before. When you feel you're

8:44

in a helpless, feeling situation,

8:46

any straws that you can grasp

8:49

for agency can feel valuable.

8:51

So it was that way, but it was I mean, it did a

8:53

total fucking number on me. So I mean I

8:56

still deal with, you know, with insecurities

8:59

and issue from ways that

9:01

I was talked about, both

9:04

true and untrue. And didn't

9:06

you mention in one interview that your parents

9:08

didn't have really the Internet

9:10

on their computer at home, so you had to like go to an

9:12

internet cafe.

9:13

So my mom, yeah, we didn't. So my parents

9:16

are divorced.

9:17

I was living with my mom in DC and

9:19

my dad and stepmom are in Brentwood, so

9:22

my at my mom's we did not. And

9:25

then when I went out to stay with my dad

9:27

and stepmom, they had the Internet. And

9:29

that was I was actually just thinking about it when

9:31

we were saying this a few seconds ago. Because

9:34

I would get up super early, I'd go on

9:36

the internet, and they eventually

9:38

established a rule that I wasn't allowed to

9:40

go on the computer until after breakfast

9:43

because I would just dive in and then I

9:45

was, you know, little miss cuckoo

9:47

pants from what was.

9:49

Being the moment you woke up. I'm sure, yeah,

9:51

well it's just a I mean, it was I

9:55

wouldn't wish the experience of my worst

9:58

enemy.

9:58

So, you know, I think influencers

10:01

these days, and obviously it's it's somewhat

10:03

different from what you went through, but there

10:06

are bullies out there, there are

10:08

nasty comments and that sort of thing, and most

10:10

of us are picking up our phone first thing in the

10:12

morning, We're going on social media and so like

10:15

same sort of situation where they're filling their minds

10:17

with that from the moment they wake up.

10:19

Well, any I think too, what we don't think

10:21

about enough with what we're seeing online

10:24

is that we all become collateral damage

10:26

to that, particularly women, when

10:29

we observe what other people, even

10:31

if it's other women are saying about other

10:33

women, we all relate on

10:35

some level, and so I think that's

10:38

where it can it can become so toxic

10:40

for the culture.

10:42

When you say, I want to go back to what something

10:44

you just said, When you said you became obsessed with

10:46

the negativity.

10:48

Can you expound on that a little bit.

10:51

I think it was.

10:54

I had I mean, like most young

10:56

women, I had insecurities

10:59

going in to nineteen ninety eight. I

11:01

had insecurities as a young

11:03

woman and trauma that led

11:05

to my even being in that relationship.

11:08

I don't know about either of you, but I think that there's

11:12

when I was young, that feeling of almost

11:15

the worst thing that could happen would be someone

11:17

confirming my worst fears about myself.

11:20

And when that's someone is the entire

11:22

world, it's pretty fucked up. So

11:25

it was just I think that it became

11:28

sort of like a wound that you just

11:30

can't leave alone.

11:31

It's fascinating to me that psychology,

11:34

because it's impossible when something

11:36

is being said about you to just look

11:38

away, right, especially with

11:41

that magnitude or that cacophony

11:43

of the whole world watching. So

11:45

I can't even imagine on such a large scale

11:48

because you don't have the tools as a twenty two

11:50

year old girl. Your brain isn't

11:52

even fully developed. Yes, you don't have the

11:54

tools to weather that storm.

11:57

So it's like a miracle that

11:59

you're okay.

12:00

Okay, is no I'm kidding.

12:02

I'm okay, You're okay, okay,

12:05

but you.

12:05

Know, I've I've found it. I don't

12:07

know.

12:08

I don't know if either of you've experienced this, but

12:11

I think one of the things that's been so magical

12:14

for me about how things have changed

12:16

in my life in the last decade is that I've

12:18

come to learn and understand how

12:21

when you have that balance of

12:23

things starting to sort of gel

12:26

more in your life. I think feeling like I've been

12:28

seen for more as my true self, that

12:30

it has allowed when there's

12:33

been something negative, something that

12:35

might have laid me low for an entire day

12:38

that I kind of am miffed for five minutes,

12:40

and that there's just a wider

12:43

landscape that you and a wider context

12:45

that you feel seen and judged in,

12:48

so that's been better.

12:50

Do you think that's something that kind of comes

12:52

naturally a little bit with age or would you talk at

12:54

it mostly to the work that you've done.

12:57

I think it's a combination of both, you know,

12:59

So there's there's the maturity, then there's

13:01

that, you know, sort of the alchemy

13:03

that happens between maturity,

13:05

age, experience and how

13:08

they all sort of work together.

13:10

But I'm grateful for it either way, so.

13:13

Right, because without the work, if you didn't have

13:15

the work, you would be a completely different person right now,

13:18

And you would be so easily triggered

13:20

by that experience. You know, if

13:22

not working through that experience, I would only just

13:25

come up and tap you on the shoulder at the worst, most

13:27

inopportune time. So you're kind of

13:29

left with no choice but to do the work right

13:31

because it's.

13:32

The only way out, exactly. And I think

13:34

that's for me. I had kind of jettisoned

13:37

what I thought I was doing, was jettisoning

13:39

my public life in two thousand

13:41

and five, and I left the States and I

13:43

moved to London and went to graduate school at

13:46

the London School of Economics. And the

13:48

intention there, I think, was that I would leave

13:51

this old Monica Lewinsky

13:54

behind and now I was going to be the new Monica

13:56

Lewinsky with a new scaffolding and start my

13:58

real life. And of course, you

14:00

know that didn't happen.

14:02

I mean, obviously you could clock when we were

14:04

being introduced to people that

14:06

you have to get over that hurdle. I'm so curious

14:09

as to what that is like. Every time

14:11

someone meets you they're like, oh,

14:13

that's the story, Like how does one

14:16

handle that?

14:17

Like did you go at it with humor?

14:18

Did you try to disarm people or did you just

14:21

let everybody figure it out as they went along?

14:23

I think probably.

14:24

I mean I like to think I'm funny, so I

14:26

would I'd like to think

14:28

it was like disarming with humor or

14:31

just you know, I probably

14:33

have a much higher EQ than I do IQ

14:35

and just in that way of sensing

14:38

people. But also trauma, you

14:40

know, trauma will definitely

14:43

shape your senses and your nervous system

14:46

around how you perceive things, how

14:48

you try to feel safe. Someone once said

14:50

something so interesting to me that people

14:53

with trauma can't feel

14:55

safe until everyone else in the room is

14:57

safe or feel

14:59

safe to them comfortable.

15:00

And I think that's definitely true for me.

15:03

But I've had people, which

15:05

was I took as a compliment, people saying that

15:07

they get over the speed bump really quickly, which

15:10

I think is good. But I mean,

15:12

then you have those funny moments where you

15:15

can just somehow tell the difference between Sometimes

15:17

people don't recognize you, they don't know your history,

15:19

all of those things, and then there'll be times

15:22

where someone will pretend

15:24

that they don't know.

15:25

Have you ever had this happen?

15:26

Like someone pretends that they don't

15:29

know you or your history, and you're like, wait, I

15:31

don't know. There's something about the way you're doing, like I

15:34

know you're either trying to make me feel

15:36

comfortable or you're trying to be cool

15:38

or whatever that is.

15:39

So what was your first job out of college? Exactly?

15:42

Exactly? Have you ever worn a beret? I think

15:44

you look really good.

15:46

But and on

15:48

a larger note, the saying

15:50

or everything happens for a reason, there are a lot of people who

15:52

believe that. You know, what do you think

15:55

about that saying everything happens

15:57

for a reason.

16:00

I think it's bigger than all

16:02

of that, because I believe in karma,

16:04

and I believe that idea

16:06

that things become cyclical

16:09

in a much larger way

16:11

over lifetimes. And so that

16:14

part of me thinks that's

16:16

an accurate statement. But then there's another

16:18

part of me that is like, no,

16:21

you just try and survive, and then this is

16:23

the story we tell ourselves that,

16:26

oh, it happened for a reason because

16:28

it's easier.

16:28

You know.

16:29

It's sort of like if you've had

16:31

a friend who's not made great choices

16:33

in relationships for a long time, and then they meet

16:35

their person and then and they're like, well, I finally went

16:37

for the nice guy, you know, and it's like okay,

16:39

or that's just the story you tell yourself. You know that

16:42

you stopped wanting the other things. And sometimes

16:44

that's true and sometimes it's not.

16:46

It does seem that you have sort

16:48

of intentionally tried to arrive

16:51

at the reason, arrive at the reason that this

16:53

happened, and you recently have been

16:55

doing you know, in the last several years, have been doing this anti

16:57

bullying work. Can you talk a little bit about turning

17:00

your pain into purpose? And it really seems

17:02

like that's what you're doing.

17:04

Sure, it really ended

17:06

up being it

17:08

was not intentional.

17:11

I think I was trying to find purpose in

17:13

my life and I couldn't. When I got out

17:15

of graduate school, I couldn't get a job, and

17:18

so then I found myself approaching my

17:20

forties and not really

17:22

having anything close to the life I had imagined.

17:25

But it's the anti

17:27

bulling work that I've been able to do really stemmed

17:30

from the first thing

17:32

I did a decade ago, which was writing a first

17:34

person essay for Vanity fair, and I think

17:36

that opportunity I was given

17:38

to reclaim my narrative and

17:41

reintroduce myself on my own terms

17:44

was a really powerful moment, and

17:46

it allowed people to start to see me in

17:49

a different light, to a reevaluate the story,

17:51

and that allowed me to eventually step

17:53

into it. Was actually an anti bullying

17:56

group in the UK called Anti Bullying

17:58

Program that's part of the Diana Award, and

18:01

they were the first ones who were sort

18:03

of said, hey, we'll work with you and really

18:06

embraced that I had a

18:08

story to share in a way that could help other people

18:10

feel less alone, and so that became

18:12

really important to me and finding

18:15

a way that you know, so if

18:17

you're a sensitive person, you just I

18:20

hate to say feel you know, I feel your pain,

18:22

but feeling other people's

18:24

pain in that sense of the

18:27

work that I've been able to do has been

18:30

incredibly rewarding for me. And I think that

18:32

all of the anti bowling organizations

18:35

that I'm connected to in different ways, we've

18:38

all tried to make strides in this

18:40

area. But there's still more work to be done, you

18:42

know. So what's great is we're now

18:44

having more conversations about

18:47

bullying and public shaming and harassment,

18:50

and therefore people feel less alone

18:52

if it happens to them, it's less stigmatized,

18:55

which is really important. I believe,

18:57

you know, the worst things happen when someone's suffering in

18:59

silence.

19:01

I want to talk a little bit about what happens

19:03

to these people who get bullied. Like I was bullied

19:05

in high school or elementary school. I

19:07

was a bullied and I was bullied, and I

19:09

which came first.

19:10

Yeah, exactly which came first?

19:13

I think I got bullied and then I started to

19:15

be like, oh, I have to be that way in

19:17

order to defend myself, and then

19:19

I took yeah, and then I was like, oh no,

19:21

you know, it took me many many years to realize that's not

19:24

you know, that's not cool either.

19:25

So I was guilty of both.

19:26

But I do remember in high school and or

19:28

in elementary or middle school, all of those terrible

19:31

periods of time, I fucking hated school more than

19:33

anybody. I couldn't wait for it

19:35

to be over. I just could not wait to be out of

19:37

school because I thought it was torture. But I

19:39

remember having this thought, and this

19:41

is so childish, and I never was going to go through

19:43

with it. But I remember thinking if I just ended

19:45

my life, if I just took my own life, then I would

19:47

teach everyone a lesson. And I know

19:49

that that line of thinking goes through many

19:52

people's brains.

19:53

Did you feel that way, Oh?

19:55

Absolutely, for sure.

19:57

There were a lot of times that I

20:00

opped myself to sleep, just

20:02

praying I wouldn't wake up the next morning and

20:05

thinking about I mean, really, it was my family

20:07

that kind of kept me here. And I think

20:10

anybody who's gone through one

20:13

cycle of that. The only thing that's

20:15

positive about having gone through one cycle

20:18

is that the next time it happens, there's that little

20:21

tiny voice in your head that knows,

20:23

if I can just get through this

20:26

moment, it will get better.

20:29

Yeah.

20:29

And that's the thing with young people, you know,

20:32

and online bullying, is that that thought

20:35

isn't as fleeting. You know,

20:37

everyone can have the thought, but the idea

20:39

is to have to be able

20:41

to tell them this isn't it, This isn't the end

20:44

of the world. You will survive this, and you will

20:46

get through this, and you will come out stronger. It's

20:48

so hard to get through to a teenager.

20:50

Right well, and I think it's so important why

20:53

we tell these kinds of stories. Why we talk about

20:55

the difficult times that we've been through, because

20:59

especially if you have a public platform,

21:01

because it does allow other people to hear,

21:03

Oh, this person went through something shitty, they

21:05

felt the way I'm feeling, and

21:08

their life has shifted and it's turned

21:10

around. And that really is sort of

21:12

at the core of using other

21:14

people suffering and giving a purpose to your

21:17

past, is taking that pain and

21:19

trying to jiu jitsu it.

21:20

So, and do you communicate

21:22

with a lot of young girls, like do you work with them?

21:25

Not so much directly with a lot of

21:27

young women.

21:28

I work in with different organizations

21:31

in different ways and in opportunities

21:34

that I have. Sometimes when I'm speaking

21:36

somewhere, someone will have brought their

21:39

their daughter or their son or their

21:41

non binary child, and I'll have

21:43

sometimes have an opportunity to talk to people

21:45

there, and I will

21:48

talk to a lot of different people who

21:50

have gone through big public shamings,

21:52

but very privately.

21:54

Because you touch in your TED talk on these themes

21:57

of you know, how you survived and how

22:00

everybody does survive this like public

22:02

shaming and public bullying. And in

22:04

another interview I listened to of you, you

22:07

mentioned that a lot of times people will come up

22:09

and say, I showed this to my fifteen or sixteen

22:11

year old kid and like that was a gut punch.

22:13

Oh it was for me

22:15

too.

22:17

It was, I mean on the slightly

22:20

more humorous side. It

22:22

was a nice shift for me for instead

22:24

of people coming up and saying, no offense,

22:26

but do you know who you look like, people would

22:28

come up and sort of talk about my ted talk,

22:31

which was very meaningful to me. But

22:33

I've had teachers

22:35

say that they've shown it to their students. I've

22:38

had parents talk about that it

22:40

was a very meaningful moment for me. Shortly

22:43

after the talk, a friend of mine from graduate

22:45

school had gone to visit her cousin who

22:47

was going through a hard time, and she saw

22:50

that he had handwritten

22:52

out on a piece of paper that was on his

22:54

desk a quote from my talk,

22:57

and it was sort of a just

23:00

did a deep heart moment for me and real

23:02

gratitude there.

23:04

So I think it is, yeah,

23:07

yeah, that's really wonderful.

23:09

I think in healing also that there are so

23:11

many moments of healing right, Like it doesn't

23:13

all come in one fell swoop. You don't all of

23:15

a sudden feel like yourself again. But

23:17

there are these milestones, right,

23:20

Can you talk a little bit about what some of

23:22

yours were like over the years

23:24

she felt like, oh I've got I've got my

23:26

feet back underneath me, or I feel

23:29

like I'm coming into my own in a new way.

23:31

Yeah.

23:31

I think it's interesting because I've sort of

23:34

gone through this a bit this past week

23:36

after I launched this get out the vote

23:38

campaign with Reformation and

23:43

it was received really well, and so I

23:45

worked all last week on Okay,

23:48

I'm you know, gotten good at weathering a

23:50

storm. Now I have to be able to enjoy this sunny

23:52

day. And that's fucking hard. Like

23:55

it's really I can.

23:56

Swear, right, Yeah, yeah, okay, go ahead.

23:58

So but yeah, I know, but I'm

24:00

just checking, just double checking. So

24:03

I think that there is I mean, for me, I

24:05

would say there were some quieter

24:08

moments of like getting my masters.

24:10

So the morning of graduation, I was having

24:12

a really hard time taking in

24:15

this fact that I was getting a master's

24:17

degree.

24:18

And I came up with.

24:19

This kakammy thing where I thought, Okay,

24:22

if I ran into someone I hadn't seen

24:24

in the last two years, and I

24:26

said, oh, what are you doing today? And they said I'm

24:28

going to get my master's in social psychology

24:31

from London School of Economics. I would have thought

24:33

to myself, Oh, I could never do that. Wow,

24:36

that would never be me. I could never do that. And

24:38

somehow that unlocks something that allowed

24:40

me to step into some of the pride

24:43

that I had for that. But definitely

24:46

when the Vanity Fair piece dropped

24:49

and people started to I mean

24:51

not everybody. There was a lot of controversy

24:53

around it, but there were loud enough

24:56

voices that wanted to start to revisit

24:58

the story. Doing the Forbes Talk,

25:00

my Ted talk, you know, doing the work

25:03

with anti bullying groups, and we did

25:05

a campaign for Bullying Prevention Month in

25:07

twenty eighteen and it was nominated

25:10

for an Emmy in the Commercial category.

25:13

So and that was exactly what I

25:15

had wanted to do coming out of graduate school

25:17

and I couldn't get a job in it. So it was very

25:19

rewarding for me. But it's people

25:21

saying I'm funny on Twitter, my brother

25:24

having to finally acknowledge I'm funny,

25:26

Like that.

25:26

Was that was such a moment.

25:28

After I was I was interviewed by

25:30

John Oliver and my brother's like, okay,

25:33

fine, you are funny, you know, because

25:35

he was always saying, you're really not as funny as you think

25:37

you are.

25:38

I'm funny. I am funny, you

25:40

know.

25:41

It's so you think those were Those

25:44

are some of the moments. I

25:46

turned fifty last year, and so I did

25:48

a lot of personal work leading up to it

25:51

of really trying to catalog

25:53

the past decade from before

25:55

that, and I burst into tears

25:58

one morning just really thinking about

26:00

how much had changed and how much had happened,

26:02

and just how grateful, just

26:05

how fucking grateful I am.

26:06

So yeah,

26:09

I'm grateful. I'm grateful for you too. I'm grateful

26:11

at your strength and perseverance. I'm really

26:14

just I mean, if you could get through something

26:16

like that, you can get through almost anything.

26:18

Really, You've turned all of it into something

26:21

positive. And that is just so admirable

26:23

and so important for our listeners to hear, because

26:26

if you're not a kid you have a kid, or

26:28

if you're like me and smart or like Monica

26:31

and refuse to procreate, then because

26:34

I can't.

26:35

Prograte because I don't want any of my daughter.

26:36

I don't want a daughter going through any of the shit that

26:39

happens in high school. I'm like, I will never

26:41

have children because I will never put them through this that

26:43

was just regular high school.

26:44

Well, I have baby popsicles, so I,

26:47

you know, I froze my eggs and I

26:49

you know, but I think I'm at a

26:52

point now where that just didn't happen

26:54

for me, which is which has actually

26:56

been not always easy.

26:58

So you know, right, yeah,

27:00

tell me how is your trust level?

27:03

Like how is your trust with men and

27:05

in relationships with women

27:08

too?

27:08

Right?

27:09

Well, I you know, I consider myself

27:12

really lucky because I could see,

27:14

you know, if I stepped outside of my

27:16

own experience of this story, I could look at

27:18

what happened to me and think, oh, yeah, this is going to be

27:21

a person who is bitter and whose

27:23

heart is closed for the rest of their lives.

27:25

And that's not me.

27:26

So I consider myself really lucky that

27:29

way that I can trust.

27:33

I.

27:33

You know, I think it's still a.

27:36

Challenge in romantic relationships

27:38

somewhere of a challenge there. And

27:41

my therapist will often say to me, She's

27:43

like, well, the paradox of you is that the

27:45

very skills and things that allowed me to

27:47

survive this sort of well

27:50

of hope or my perseverance

27:52

and not giving up.

27:53

She's like, it's not.

27:55

So it's like a little maladaptive in

27:57

romantic relationship.

27:59

So well, I

28:01

think not every man can

28:04

be with a strong woman. Not every man is

28:06

up to the challenge.

28:07

Well done, Brad.

28:09

And I also think too that there's I think

28:11

there's something with this generation

28:13

too, that we're sort of sandwiched

28:16

between the Boomers

28:18

and the millennials and that where

28:20

things were changing, and so you had a

28:23

lot more people, particularly I think Gen

28:25

X men eventually coming out

28:27

that was more acceptable. So you

28:30

still had with the Boomers and the silent

28:32

generation a lot of men who

28:34

got married who were gay, a lot of men who

28:37

were gay who married women either

28:39

because it wasn't acceptable or they didn't even know

28:41

they were gay, right, And then our generation

28:43

it was you know, I think men

28:46

started to come out later. But then

28:48

the younger generations are the ones where

28:50

it's been much more

28:52

fluid, and so I think that there

28:55

literally are less straight men available.

28:57

So I mean, it is.

28:59

God, thank

29:01

God, we had an overdose for a while.

29:03

Truly, we need some non straight man more

29:06

of them.

29:07

Yeah, So it's a you

29:09

know, I'm at a point now where I'm

29:11

like it'll happen or it won't happen. You know,

29:14

I have a lot of great things in my life.

29:16

What I like a partner? Sure, but

29:19

that's okay.

29:20

Well on that. No, we're going to take a break and we'll be right

29:22

back. And

29:27

we're back.

29:27

Oh, we are back

29:30

for our first question.

29:32

We're going to have a caller, and Christina

29:34

is going to join us on the line. But she says,

29:37

Dear Chelsea, I'm a female

29:39

in my thirties and a resident physician at a

29:41

hospital in New York City. During

29:43

my training, I've experienced a substantial

29:45

amount of sexism within my department, including

29:47

favoritism, rule bending, inappropriate

29:50

and non constructive criticism, additional

29:52

tasks or tasks withheld, and

29:54

yes, sexual harassment. I have discussions

29:57

with my other female co residents in which

29:59

we all have our own experiences to share.

30:01

I decided to become involved.

30:03

In leadership and was asked to create a project

30:05

relating to diversity, equality and inclusion.

30:07

I thought this would be the perfect opportunity to conduct

30:10

a survey with the goal of bringing to light

30:12

the gender inequalities in my department.

30:15

After finding a legitimate and validated survey

30:18

with many citations and publications.

30:20

I was met with complete pushback. After

30:23

talking with higher ups, I received numerous phone

30:25

calls from URHR rep expressing

30:27

concern for potential consequences of the survey.

30:30

I was advised to just drop it and

30:32

go ahead and find a new project.

30:34

The have it caused by a request for.

30:36

Permission to conduct a survey along the lines

30:38

of sexism tells me all I need to know. I

30:41

listened to your podcast every week on my walk

30:43

to and from work and all the great advice you

30:45

provide. I know there's no quick fix to

30:47

this, but I met a loss as to how I can move

30:49

past this. How am I supposed to continue

30:52

these next few years working for such a sack of

30:54

shit place, knowing it covers all

30:56

this up and there's nothing I can do about it. How

30:58

am I supposed to encourage female medical students

31:00

to come here for their residency. I

31:03

cannot risk my training position by

31:05

pushing the issue, and I need some of the higher ups

31:07

in question to write me letters of recommendation upon

31:09

my departure, any guidance on how

31:11

to navigate the sexist political nightmare while

31:14

we wait for these old barnacles to fall off.

31:16

Christina Wow.

31:18

Hi Christina.

31:19

Hi, Hi, this

31:22

is Monica, our special guest today, Monica

31:24

Lewinsky.

31:24

Nice to meet you, Christina.

31:26

I know you mentioned something

31:28

to me that I would love for you to share with Monica

31:31

as well of why you were like, I actually have

31:33

to call it.

31:35

I have your biography

31:37

from ninety eight on my nightstand. I

31:40

had about forty pages left when Catherine

31:42

told me that you were going to be on and I was like, Okay,

31:44

I have to go. I have to do it.

31:47

Oh my gosh, Oh my gosh.

31:49

Yeah.

31:49

That was an authorized biography

31:52

that Andrew Morton did and that

31:54

I participated in, and

31:57

he's a great person. I do not recommend

32:00

doing an authorized biography right

32:02

when you're coming out of the most traumatic year

32:04

of your life that is also written

32:07

in three months.

32:08

But you know, help

32:10

pay the legal bills, Yeah exactly,

32:12

you know, there you go.

32:13

Yeah, so your situation.

32:16

You have tried to kind

32:19

of blow the whistle on the situation there

32:21

and you were met with a lot of pushback, right,

32:24

correct, And do you see

32:26

any other avenues for you to

32:28

pursue that line of accountability?

32:31

So the only other thing I could do is

32:33

like, go, I guess find the correct authoritative

32:36

people to kind of report things to.

32:39

But unfortunately, I think it would have the same

32:42

outcome or the same negative

32:44

effect in terms of what my

32:46

reputation would be or some

32:48

of the ways I would be treated. And I still

32:51

need, you know, a lot of things from these

32:53

people forward with my career. Kind

32:56

of a tough situation.

32:58

It sounds like a tough situation, and I'm sorry

33:00

that you're in it.

33:01

Did you so did you already deal with HR

33:03

on this when you asked to do the survey

33:06

or.

33:06

So they just kind of ghosted me. I

33:09

never heard anything back. They said they would get to,

33:11

you know, touch base with me at some point,

33:13

but it's like they wouldn't even say no.

33:16

You know, it's like I'm just asking for permission.

33:19

So if the answers no, then just say no,

33:22

and you know, give me whatever reason

33:24

you can come up with. But it's like they just

33:27

completely brushed it under the rug and just ignored

33:29

me.

33:30

What is the vibe at work? Is it a daily

33:32

occurrence?

33:33

Like, are you constantly just dealing with being

33:35

marginalized there?

33:36

Yeah, pretty much. And it's and it's not just

33:39

the men either, it's it's the women

33:41

too. You know, it's kind of like sometimes

33:44

the women attendings are harder on the

33:46

female residents, and you know,

33:48

a lot of the HR people are women.

33:51

It's tough, it's it's just kind

33:54

of you know, no one wants to lose their job.

33:56

I know, And I'm so against keeping your head

33:58

down.

33:58

I don't know how you feel about that, Monica, but like

34:00

I'm very much about telling on people. I

34:03

like to tell on people, especially when

34:05

it's that this issue, because this issue,

34:08

it's so weird that we're living in this time, you know,

34:10

where we just had Me Too and the repercussion

34:12

and of Me Too is basically the overturning

34:15

of Roe v Wade. Yeah, like I look at that as

34:17

all, you know, like we stand up for ourselves

34:19

and then they're like shut the fuck up, don't

34:21

talk too loudly, and don't stand up for yourself too

34:23

strongly, like whack them all?

34:25

Yeah, right, right? And how many years

34:28

do you have left in the program?

34:30

But two?

34:31

Right?

34:32

And do you think that, like what are you thinking?

34:33

Are you thinking that you can survive that and that you're

34:36

going to just like get through it?

34:37

I mean, I guess I don't

34:39

really have another choice.

34:41

Well, you do have a choice.

34:42

You.

34:43

You do have choices here.

34:44

You can decide to make a big deal out

34:46

of this and blow the whole thing up.

34:48

You can. I don't know if that's what you want to do.

34:50

It's that doesn't sound like that's necessarily

34:52

the best option for you, But it is what

34:54

I.

34:55

Want to do, of course. But no,

34:57

I don't think it's the best thing to do

34:59

in my particular situation. But it's kind

35:01

of like, how do we ever progress

35:03

if everyone thinks that way? You

35:06

know, if everyone is putting their head down and

35:08

just complying because we're trying to get, you

35:10

know, to to get and we've all

35:12

worked very hard to get to this place. You

35:14

know, it's not it's a lot to put on the line,

35:17

but like, how do you force change if

35:19

everyone does that?

35:22

Well, I think there are other ways to kind

35:24

of stand up for yourself without making

35:26

it this huge thing where you're calling

35:28

everyone out. I think there's a you

35:30

know, it's kind of like, you know, how there's microaggressions.

35:33

There's also micro assertions, like ways

35:36

to make yourself be more

35:39

you know, standing up for yourself in a way where

35:41

it doesn't have to be kind of a blanket statement.

35:43

It's actually individual to you like, I'm actually

35:45

not willing to do this, I actually don't appreciate

35:48

being spoken to like this, or you know, like little

35:50

little things where if that's how you see

35:52

yourself and you start actually

35:54

calling people out on the little things

35:56

without making it a huge deal, but being like, I

35:58

actually don't really appreciate being spoken

36:01

to like that or just being overlooked in that way.

36:03

It kind of feels like it's because I'm a woman.

36:05

I find the phrase that's not going to work for me sort

36:08

of sometimes can feel really empowering

36:11

and also puts the ball back

36:13

in someone else's court of

36:15

Okay, this isn't going to work, and therefore

36:18

come up with another fucking solution, you know, or

36:20

suggestion of something else.

36:22

Yeah, you mentioned there are opportunities

36:24

that are given to some of the male residents

36:26

or taken away from the female residence. Maybe

36:28

there is just some questioning that you can do

36:30

on an individual basis, like, oh, is there a reason

36:33

that this task or opportunity is going to this

36:35

person instead of this other person, whether it's you or another

36:38

woman resident.

36:39

Yeah, I mean that's true. For instance, there's

36:42

a certain rotation where if there is a female

36:44

resident on with other male residents.

36:47

This one attending will only ask the female

36:49

to go like run errands, like to a console,

36:51

other physicians, or give them cases, like

36:54

not even their case. But if

36:56

there's two females on then you know, he'll

36:58

kind of go back and forth between the two females.

37:00

But like, the males never get asked unless

37:02

there is no female in service, of course, so

37:05

things like that. But yeah, I think

37:07

that I think you're right. I think it does

37:09

need to be just said in the moment.

37:11

Yeah, in the moment.

37:12

And also, like, you know, I learned this a few

37:14

years ago about when I'm having a confrontation

37:17

to be light and happy about it and be overly

37:20

like smiley, because you have to actually

37:22

act that way with people, especially men, because

37:25

they're like, oh, all of a sudden, you're you're

37:27

contesting something that they're saying and you're a bitch.

37:29

But if you're smiling and you're friendly and you're like, but

37:31

wait, it's kind of weird that you're only asking the women

37:34

to do this, right, Like it's

37:36

almost like you have to play with their brains,

37:38

you know, And it's almost I don't want

37:40

to say in a flirtatious way, but sometimes I

37:42

do do that where I'm like, wait, I don't

37:45

understand, are you giving? Because this one guy I went

37:47

and I was pulling up to this nail salon.

37:49

I had forgotten something and this

37:52

guy I was at a meter and I didn't put money in

37:54

the meter because I was just running up to the nail salon on Montana

37:56

Avenue and I came downstairs and the guy goes,

37:58

excuse me, miss miss, missmiss, you didn't put

38:00

any money in your meter, And I was like, who

38:02

the fuck are you my fault?

38:04

Like why are you a meter maid? Who

38:06

cares what I'm doing?

38:08

But I was like, okay, this is a man telling

38:10

a woman what to do, And even though it's not the

38:12

biggest thing, it is a very micro

38:14

aggression. If you get enough of those,

38:17

it becomes a macro aggression and

38:19

it's fucking annoying. You know what man would

38:21

say that to another man, You forgot to put money

38:23

in your meter? Mister Like, no, that's it's

38:26

definitely a male female like dynamic.

38:28

So I said to him, I go, I'm sorry, but I just

38:30

I'm so confused.

38:31

Why do you care what I'm doing with my

38:33

meter? And then I like slapped him on the shoulder,

38:36

like in a playful way. I'm like, I'm just really curious.

38:38

He goes, well, I'm just looking out for you, and I said, but are

38:40

you? Are you looking out for me? Like do

38:42

you think that I don't know about parking meters like

38:45

that? I don't know what goes on? You know,

38:47

this isn't my So it's like, but

38:49

just that tonality, like he clearly

38:52

saw what he did in our small exchange.

38:54

I just wrote about this and he was

38:57

like, oh god, I go it's just kind

38:59

of unnecessary. Do you understand like women

39:01

were just so sick of being told especially

39:03

by men. I'm sure you meant well, but it doesn't

39:05

I don't need you. You're not my babysitter. I'm a grown

39:08

woman. I'm in my like I'm almost fifty,

39:10

you know, like stop so And

39:12

it was a nice conversation. I ended up giving a kiss

39:14

on the cheek as I left him for being

39:17

such a good listener. But do

39:19

you know what I'm saying, It's like the small kind of calibration

39:22

to just kind of change the narrative so it's.

39:24

Not like, oh, you're whining and bitching and moaning,

39:26

because that they can use against you.

39:28

So if you go in there with like playfulness

39:30

and kind of you know, not flirty,

39:32

you don't need to flirt with anyone that's like, you

39:34

know, that's not cool for us to even have to do, but

39:37

in a more playful manner, like, oh,

39:39

interesting, you should take a look at that, And

39:42

so it doesn't feel like such a threat to them.

39:44

I think maybe it's easier for people to see

39:46

it that way.

39:47

Yeah, they're definitely more men, especially

39:49

are more receptive when you're a little.

39:51

Smiley and yeah, and

39:53

who cares, like we're just manipulating them

39:55

anyway into seeing their own behaviors.

39:57

So I'm all for that.

40:00

I feel like we are societally built

40:02

to think this is a zero some game and

40:05

only one woman could succeed, and we're in

40:07

competition with each other because of what men

40:09

the way that you know, we've all been going through

40:11

the world for millions of years. It is a man's

40:14

world, and women are

40:16

like, oh fuck, there's not going to be three of us

40:18

at the top. There's only going to maybe be one of us,

40:20

so everyone else get out of the way. But I

40:22

think you can do the same thing, like actually,

40:25

it's not even like confronting them. It's

40:27

actually pointing out, go oh, that's interesting.

40:29

We're actually working against each other, like

40:32

because of the guys, Like, isn't that funny?

40:34

Don't you think it's funny?

40:35

You know, like in a conversational way, just

40:37

like pointing out things that you notice

40:40

or in the moment that they're happening.

40:42

Or after the fact, with a version of you

40:45

know, I'm sure it was unintentional, but it

40:47

seems to me that I've been asked

40:49

to do this where some of the other male residents

40:52

haven't. And is there something

40:54

personal to that I don't you know, or that

40:56

you doubt it's personal.

40:58

And you can also sort of you know, you

41:00

know these things are happening, so you can maybe

41:02

bypass the questioning about it

41:04

and go straight to the solution. And I think,

41:06

especially with the women applying to their

41:08

better nature and their mentorship, maybe a

41:11

good solution saying you know what, I really

41:13

am feeling like, I want to challenge.

41:15

Myself over these next few months,

41:17

you.

41:17

Know, I want to take on additional tasks if

41:19

there's any any time, you know, maybe you have

41:21

specific examples, but if there's anything

41:23

that I can do to do more challenging

41:26

work. I'm really interested in doing that because

41:28

I want to be the best doctor that I can be, and

41:31

like really applying to that sense of mentorship

41:33

could be a way through that as well.

41:36

Yeah, definitely, I think that's I think that's great

41:38

advice. I think the sort of it's

41:40

difficult for women in medicine, and especially

41:42

if you're you know, we have a lot of international

41:45

attendings too, so I think they had to work

41:47

really hard and probably had to experience

41:49

that stuff themselves.

41:50

My best friend from college is a

41:53

is a pediatrician, so I know she's

41:55

I hear numerous stories about

41:58

both ways she's respect and ways

42:00

she needs to assert herself at times,

42:03

and so it is a balance. I

42:05

think it is finding that balance, and I'm sure you've

42:08

done this, but it's also good to just be

42:10

documenting what's happening,

42:13

you know. So yeah, it doesn't

42:15

have to be a whole report, but.

42:17

Yeah, I agree with that too.

42:19

Yeah, and even if you know, I don't

42:21

know if this is the sort of thing that you would talk to somebody

42:23

in the media about on an anonymous basis,

42:25

but especially if you are documenting it, you have

42:28

specific examples and dates and times and people

42:30

that you can that you can reference.

42:33

And then again like you know these things

42:35

are happening.

42:35

Maybe it's skipping something like the survey and going

42:37

straight to suggesting like hey, you you know you

42:40

wanted me to do this leadership and DEI.

42:42

Maybe we go ahead and have a training. Maybe we go

42:44

ahead and take some steps.

42:45

And you know, do some sort of a rotation

42:48

where it's like doctors are all

42:50

about systems, right, you have your checklist, you have your

42:52

system. So maybe it's like, hey, instead of just like picking

42:54

willy nilly, here's who gets the task or here's

42:56

who gets the opportunity, maybe we have a rotational

42:59

thing so everybody is getting you know, the

43:01

same level of opportunities. I don't know if that's something

43:03

that can happen because I know it's very hierarchical.

43:05

But maybe just bypassing going straight to the solution.

43:08

Yeah.

43:08

Yeah.

43:09

One of the things we talked about for like a project

43:11

idea was to do like some sort of PowerPoint

43:14

like presentation on you know, workplace

43:17

microaggressions. But the thing is is

43:20

it's already a training. You know, it's already a

43:22

module training, right that's

43:24

required, and so it's like no one's

43:26

paying attention to that or the

43:28

people.

43:29

I think with trying to change social

43:31

behavior, we found with some of the PSAs

43:33

that we did that getting people to

43:36

feel an emotion always

43:38

helps shift thinking and behavior a

43:40

lot faster than just hearing information.

43:43

And maybe there's I don't know what that creative

43:45

solution is, but maybe there's a way of

43:48

if you're doing that, maybe it's writing scripts and

43:50

having the men be the women in something

43:52

funny and you know, some version of that,

43:54

because that's what people remember

43:57

is how they felt.

43:58

Yeah, that's so true.

43:59

That's true, especially through humor,

44:01

even though it's not a humorous situation. It

44:03

kind of takes the weight off of it. It takes the weight

44:05

off of feeling like you're learning.

44:07

Yeah, like a skit or something like that.

44:10

Yeah, medical snl.

44:13

Yeah.

44:14

Yeah, it's like we have to outsmart

44:16

men now just to like it's so

44:18

exhausting, you know, we're

44:21

not allowed to be smart, and then we have to become smarter

44:23

than them to like make change or make

44:25

something different.

44:26

And it makes you pay more attention to

44:28

the you know, to things that probably are nothing

44:31

and you're like, oh, that's something. It's like when

44:33

I go for a hike and you know, you're trying

44:35

to pass somebody and it's a mail and then he's

44:37

like, he's like go ahead, and I'm like, don't tell

44:39

me what to do.

44:40

You know, but

44:42

it's like, isn't it funny? I find

44:45

in the car so much. I don't understand why

44:47

people have such an issue of letting someone

44:49

pass, Like I want to go faster than

44:51

you do.

44:51

Why do you fucking care? Like it's

44:55

such a weird thing.

44:56

It is so it just but also what

44:59

about people who scream at people

45:01

while they're driving?

45:02

O wait, road rage?

45:03

It's so harossing, I

45:07

do.

45:08

I had a boyfriend once, Ted Harbert, who

45:10

pulled over someone else. He pulled

45:12

over another car. He's not a police officer,

45:16

it wasn't then, and he literally made this

45:18

arms gesticulation to this crazy

45:20

driver. We were in Venice, California, and he went

45:22

like this and pulled over and the woman pulled

45:25

over.

45:25

And I was like, oh my god, what are you doing?

45:28

And he's like, I can't deal with this, and he went out and screamed

45:30

it her and goes, you have no friends, That's

45:32

what he said too.

45:33

And I was like, how I'm supposed

45:35

to be fucking you? Like are you kidding me? You

45:39

have no friends? And like after this and

45:41

all of it was mind blowing.

45:42

I'm like, well, pulls over for a random

45:44

man going like this, talk.

45:46

About man's blaming.

45:47

Oh my gosh.

45:48

Anyway, I digress. That wasn't a very

45:50

necessary story, but when I had to share. But

45:52

yes, I think it's great that you're asking these questions, and I

45:54

think it's great that you're open to like solutions,

45:57

like a non traditional solution, like you have

45:59

to get creative, and that's only going to serve you in

46:01

the long run anyway, to deal with more situations

46:03

like this, because they're gonna, unfortunately be

46:06

there, you know what I mean. You're going into the medical

46:08

field. This isn't going to be the first time you're dealing with this.

46:10

So I think if you just try

46:12

like a couple of different approaches and then when

46:14

you find one that works, then that's

46:16

going to be like something that you're going to be able to use

46:19

throughout the rest of your career to put people

46:21

in their place.

46:22

Yeah. No, I think everything

46:24

you guys said is really good advice. I think

46:27

it's you know, you have to kind of girl

46:29

the courage to say things in the moment, and

46:31

not everything is in the moment. Some things

46:33

are like, you know, you talk to my like I'll

46:35

talk to my male co residents and then they'll tell me,

46:37

oh, that's weird, like they didn't have me do that,

46:40

and you're like, really, you know, it's kind

46:42

of like you're finding out after the back things

46:44

that do happen. I think

46:47

I think you're right. I think I need to just address

46:49

that, just you know, finding the courage.

46:51

Yeah, and the tone and the right tone, because

46:53

the right tone is everything you could say. You

46:55

could say fuck you eighteen different ways,

46:58

and one of them can be friendly, you know, like

47:00

you can find different ways to say almost anything where

47:02

it becomes more of a conversation and more.

47:04

Of a thought, like oh, you say to your doctor like,

47:06

oh my god, that's so funny.

47:07

I was talking to the male interns like they've never done any of

47:09

this stuff. I wonder why that is.

47:11

They don't know how the coffee maker works. How funny?

47:13

Yeah, is that part of the rule, you know, like

47:15

almost kind of in a playful way.

47:17

And see where that gets you.

47:20

As Chelsea said earlier, I'm sorry you're

47:22

going through this. You shouldn't have to do all

47:24

this extra fucking work.

47:25

So I agree, But

47:27

it's everywhere. I mean, that's that's the unfortunate

47:30

part. You know, we're still talking about this. Yeah,

47:33

it happens everywhere, medicine not

47:35

medicine.

47:36

So yeah, well, keep us

47:38

posted, let us know how everything

47:40

is going with you.

47:41

I will hope you enjoyed the last forty

47:43

pages of the book.

47:47

Bye bye, well.

47:49

Our next caller, Ali says,

47:52

Dear Chelsea, my dad was

47:54

diagnosed with ALS when I was two and a half

47:57

and died a week after my fourth birthday. I'm

47:59

turning thirty on March fourteenth, and

48:01

every year my birthday and the week's leading up

48:03

to it are awful.

48:05

Try as I may, it's.

48:07

Often an anxiety ridden day that I

48:09

white knuckle through and often don't enjoy.

48:11

I get stressed about it months in advance.

48:14

I've tried everything. My grief tends

48:16

to come and deeer the month of March.

48:17

Every year.

48:18

It's like my body is remembering everything and

48:20

grieving, and every year I'm surprised I can't

48:22

get out from under it. Honestly, my

48:24

best birthdays aren't even up there with neutral days

48:27

in my life. I'm an extrovert with incredible

48:29

people in my life who want to celebrate me and

48:31

who know this and try to support me each year,

48:33

and it's still a day in a month. I'd rather just fast

48:35

forward right through. Can you help me enjoy my

48:37

birthday?

48:38

Ali?

48:39

Yes, Yes we can. Ali. Hi,

48:42

Hi, Hi speak, How cute you are?

48:45

This is Monica Lewinski, our special guest

48:47

today.

48:48

Hi, nice to meet you.

48:49

Hi'm lotka, nice to meet you. Nice to see

48:51

you.

48:51

Catherine, you need to flip

48:53

it and reverse it. Sister.

48:55

You are going to start now in the month of March

48:58

and just do Every morning

49:00

you are going to get up and do all you're going

49:02

to write down. We're going to get you a list of

49:04

affirmations where you're going to say, this is going to

49:06

be the month that I celebrate

49:09

my father's life and that he celebrates

49:11

my birthday with me. And you are going to go through

49:13

that month enjoy because

49:16

you had a father. It wasn't his fault

49:18

he died. He doesn't want to see you mourning

49:20

for him a month every year. He wants you to

49:22

enjoy your birthday and you're going to enjoy it with

49:24

his spirit and mind. You have to take

49:26

hold of this and take hold of him and

49:29

be like, we're doing this together. This is the year

49:31

that I am going to enjoy my birthday,

49:33

and I'm going to enjoy this month, and I'm just going

49:35

to be appreciative for all the love that I have in

49:37

my heart for you, because that's really

49:40

what it's all about. You know, there's

49:42

no point in grieving. Obviously it's a natural

49:44

feeling. You can't control grieving, But there's

49:47

no point in suffering because

49:49

now you're suffering more than grieving, do

49:52

you understand.

49:53

Yeah, that's the difference.

49:55

So it's like it'll hit me in October

49:57

and I'm like, this is grief, and then every March I'm

49:59

confied and it feels more like suffering and not like

50:01

grief.

50:02

Yeah. Yeah, Also, what Chelsea's saying

50:04

in other words, is finding a new story

50:07

for it. You know. So I went

50:09

through something similar, different

50:11

underpinnings. But so January sixteenth

50:14

for me, every year was January

50:16

sixteenth was the day I was stung by the FBI

50:19

and I found out about the investigation

50:21

happening and was told if I didn't

50:24

wear a wire, I was going to jail for twenty seven years,

50:26

blah blah blah, and the sort

50:28

of next year or two, I dreaded

50:30

that day, I dreaded.

50:31

One oh one pm.

50:32

That's this is when it happened last year, and then

50:35

I think it was maybe by the third year, I

50:38

decided that I was going to celebrate it as Survivor's

50:40

Day, and so my family and I do that

50:42

every year, and January sixteenth

50:44

is Survivor's Day. I, by myself a

50:46

present. I try to celebrate as

50:49

much as I can. And changing

50:51

that narrative around that event made

50:53

a difference. And so I wonder if there's you

50:56

know, is there a different story to find.

50:59

No, it makes sense. Yeah, it's this

51:01

bodied remembering.

51:02

Yeah, yes, and you just chase. I mean, we

51:05

have the power to do that.

51:06

It's just that we feel kind of wrapped up

51:08

in our own feelings and we don't know how to get out of them.

51:10

Sometime, but like even as simple as finding

51:13

out some of your dad's favorite books, right,

51:15

or some of your dad's favorite things, and spending

51:17

that time when the date is coming

51:20

along or you know, your birthday's coming along, or

51:22

whichever the day you know, reading what

51:24

he loved or experiencing some of

51:26

the things that he loved. Whatever his hobbies were

51:28

like as a way of connecting him to your

51:31

life now. And I guarantee

51:33

you the more you welcome people

51:35

who are gone, and the more you wring them

51:37

towards.

51:38

You, like I do it in meditation all the time.

51:39

I always just imagine my mom who's

51:41

passed away, and my brother as these kind

51:43

of like mythical little nymphs

51:45

like in Greek mythology, like dancing through the

51:48

sky. I always just summon them when

51:50

I'm meditating because that's like my light

51:52

that's protective, and your father is

51:54

protecting you. Like that's what happens.

51:56

You know, people who are in your life, they never just go

51:58

away. Their energy is with you forever, and

52:01

it's worth celebrating and it's worth honoring.

52:03

It's not just about the time you didn't have with him.

52:05

It's about the person that he was and that he created

52:08

you. And I think there's a lot of

52:10

stuff that you can do and set

52:12

yourself up for turn it into

52:14

a celebration. Yeah.

52:16

There Also what comes up for me is I wonder

52:18

too if there was anything that happened when

52:20

you were so little that you somehow

52:22

coupled you know, kids, as kids,

52:24

we make our own stories.

52:26

Definitely.

52:27

Yeah, was there some narrative or something

52:29

you you overheard that you maybe misinterpreted

52:32

as a kid that made you loop

52:34

that connection of sort of this negativity

52:37

and that. And I'm clearly not saying

52:39

you were responsible for your dad's death. I

52:41

think kids can kids can

52:43

take that on and sort of that you know,

52:46

that version, and so there

52:48

could be you know, your younger self could

52:50

be in there sort of still holding on to that

52:52

narrative.

52:53

Yeah, I think it's a

52:55

feeling of a lack of control that

52:57

I that's a trigger for me in my life.

53:00

I've in general, but I think, yeah, he

53:02

did hospice in the home, so there were years

53:04

of me watching that that I don't

53:06

remember, but I was there, right,

53:09

And so every March it's like

53:11

my body is like something happened twenty

53:14

five.

53:14

Years ago that scared the shit out of us,

53:17

right, and like my body remembers first.

53:19

And so I.

53:20

Really I think because of that, I

53:23

avoided this month maybe more than I would

53:25

in a different month, because I'm afraid to kind

53:28

of like turn into the curve. And I like what

53:30

you're both saying about claiming

53:32

it, not trying to.

53:33

Put it under the rug, because I'm not like

53:36

that. My family is not like that.

53:37

There's no reason for me to say,

53:39

hey, I really miss him today. It's no reason I

53:41

can't say that or do a toast to him at my birthday

53:43

dinner.

53:43

Do you live either in California or

53:45

Florida where there's like a design I'm

53:48

in La Okay, you

53:50

know, going to my my energy

53:52

guy, he talks about like literally disrupting

53:54

the pattern in your body and how

53:57

it could be so great to like Disneyland

53:59

is a rate to place to do that, going

54:01

on a roller coaster rides, going

54:03

on the rights and maybe maybe doing

54:06

doing that on your birthday. It's literally

54:08

shaking up your pattern.

54:11

Yeah, when I travel, My birthdays

54:13

are better every time I travel. Which

54:15

is interesting that you say that I have people coming here

54:17

which will still be different and good.

54:19

And know something, you know, whatever you focus on

54:22

intensifies, right, So if you're focusing on

54:24

the loss, that is intense feeling.

54:26

If you focus on the love and the

54:28

experience that you had, that will

54:30

intensify. So it really is a choice

54:32

that you make and it becomes a practice, but it

54:35

works.

54:35

You know.

54:36

It's like, have you had any somatic healing

54:38

or somatic therapy.

54:40

I talked to Catherine about that. I do

54:42

therapy, and I've always done like king.

54:44

And body work. I don't know that I've ever done like us

54:46

somatic therapist.

54:48

Yeah, you might want to look into that because that is healing

54:50

your body.

54:51

Yeah.

54:52

The La Pain and Psychology Center

54:55

is where I have gone. My therapist is there

54:57

and that's been super super helpful for me in getting

55:00

certain stuff out of my body. And just

55:02

how you say, like it's like your body triggers your

55:04

emotions with this, like it starts

55:06

in your body.

55:07

That might be something to look into. Yeah,

55:10

and I know, Monica, you do some semitic I have

55:12

a sematic. Yeah, every other week I do. I

55:14

have a somatic session.

55:16

So yeah, because your body remembers

55:18

for sure, I'm like always every year, I'm like the

55:20

last to know why.

55:21

I'm just I'm like, oh, yeah, I

55:23

do this every year.

55:24

Well can you just you could you

55:27

like when you start to really pay attention

55:29

to it too, I mean they're just the subtle.

55:32

I know.

55:32

Early on working with my somatic

55:34

therapists, I had this realization

55:37

that I feel I am on my

55:39

legs, I'm not in my legs, and

55:42

so like even just a little

55:45

something like that just really

55:48

reorients how you how you see

55:50

and experience your life. You

55:52

know.

55:53

Yeah, so interesting. Thank you so

55:55

much. I'm going to look into.

55:56

That happy early birthday.

55:59

Thank you. Ten days until

56:01

I'm thirty.

56:02

Oh this is perfect. This

56:04

is perfect timing for you to turn the beat around.

56:06

Yeah, new decade.

56:08

And also have you ever read have you ever read any

56:10

of like like Signs from the Universe by Laurlyn

56:12

Jackson?

56:13

I haven't, but I heard her on

56:16

your podcast and learned

56:18

about her work.

56:19

I have her book. I haven't read it yet, but I do

56:21

do that.

56:21

I have a sign that I have with him, and he does

56:24

it's the band of who it's and he does.

56:26

Come to me a lot. I ask

56:29

for him.

56:30

Yeah, I talked to him a lot. I feel

56:32

connected to him. The older I get, which

56:34

is great. And so this year I think I'm like, let's

56:37

get real dat.

56:38

Okay, yep, yep, yeah,

56:40

yeah, Well good for you. You're going to

56:42

be fine, It's going to be better.

56:44

Thank you, Thank you, al. I really appreciate

56:47

this.

56:47

Yeah, Okay, take care, thank

56:50

you.

56:50

Bye.

56:51

What a perfect little face. She I was

56:53

looking at her face. I was like, oh, you're like a little baby

56:56

doll.

56:57

But I think that idea of turning toward

56:59

the pain you feeling, or turning into your

57:01

body, that was something that was a real key for

57:03

me. Was because I was having a lot of stress

57:05

that was manifesting in physical pain. And there

57:08

were times when I would have pain in one part of my body

57:10

and I actually turned inward and focused

57:13

on it, it either changed or dissipated

57:15

or lessened. But also I would notice

57:18

things like, oh, I think I'm only having

57:20

this pain in this this is the only sensation

57:22

I can focus on. And when I actually did a body scan,

57:24

I'm like, oh my gosh, my hands are tingling, or

57:27

you know these other body sensations that I could I

57:29

wasn't even aware of because I was so

57:31

focused on trying to not focus

57:33

on the pain.

57:34

And when you actually.

57:35

Look inward and focus on it, whether it's emotional,

57:37

physical pain, it can change your relationship

57:39

to it. Obviously, it doesn't cure every pain,

57:41

but like I can change your relationship to

57:44

it so well.

57:46

Our last question comes from

57:48

Adria. Dear Chelsea,

57:50

I'm turning fifty in August, and I'm blissfully

57:53

single and child free as

57:55

such, I've not had a wedding, a bridal shower,

57:57

a bachelorette party, a baby shower, or received

57:59

gifts or money for any major life events

58:01

beyond high school graduation. I

58:03

didn't even send out graduation notices when I earned

58:06

my undergrad or graduate degrees.

58:08

My chosen careers have never been.

58:10

Especially lucrative actor teacher, bartender,

58:12

and I'm currently self employed as a pet sitter.

58:15

I also volunteer five or six days a week

58:17

at my county's woefully underfunded animal

58:19

shelter. My goal is to open a humane

58:22

society operating on government contracts,

58:24

essentially doing away with the animal shelter, as

58:26

was done with great success in a neighboring county.

58:29

I want to ask my friends and family members

58:31

for money to start this humane society,

58:33

with the purpose of the announcement being my fiftieth

58:36

birthday present. My conundrum

58:38

about doing this is twofold. First,

58:40

will starting something like a GoFundMe for this be

58:42

perceived as ghosh or worse lazy?

58:45

In other words, why am I not well connected or

58:47

financially solvent enough by this age to accomplish

58:49

this without their help? Second, I

58:51

think I deserve to be acknowledged. Nay is celebrated

58:54

for not adding to the world's overpopulation or

58:57

being another divorced statistic, which

58:59

I surely would have been if any of my prayer relationships

59:01

had led to marriage. So how do I bring this up

59:03

without offending those who have chosen to get married

59:05

and have kids? Thanks so much, love the show, Adria.

59:08

I think starting a gofund me is that what she's

59:10

asking?

59:11

Like, Yeah, for sure, absolutely,

59:15

that's perfect go fundme material.

59:17

Mm hmmm. I don't have a problem

59:19

with that at all, and I don't wouldn't worry about I

59:21

mean, the people you're gonna offend, You're going to invite

59:24

a lot of people that are not going to be offended

59:26

to focus on those people.

59:27

Right, I think this is a perfect

59:30

way to like reach out. I don't think it's gohosh,

59:32

I don't think it's seen as lazy. Ask your

59:34

friends to share it, and I think there is You know, this

59:36

is such a cute, funny way to be like, I haven't

59:38

asked for you know, baby shower gifts or any of these

59:41

other things, Like this is how you can give back

59:43

to me because I want I mean, you're not asking for yourself

59:45

you're asking for this humane society that's incredible.

59:47

And also can always sort of say if

59:50

you can to people. I think just like giving

59:52

people because sometimes you

59:54

know, people feel uncomfortable asking for money.

59:56

It's like, if you can, if you, if you can do

59:58

this, great, this is what I I would like and

1:00:01

you should feel good about yourself that you have such an

1:00:03

amazing friend who this is what she wants.

1:00:05

For her fiftieth berxactly.

1:00:07

And if you can't give financially, I would love if you

1:00:09

share it on your social media exactly, and other

1:00:11

people may get involved. It can be a whole community

1:00:13

effort. Like I think this is a wonderful thing

1:00:15

to do.

1:00:16

Yeah, I love it. I love it.

1:00:18

Yeah, good job, Adria, go for it.

1:00:20

Problem solved.

1:00:21

Well that's all we got.

1:00:22

Oh okay, well we're going to wrap it up. Monica.

1:00:25

It was such a pleasure to have you on

1:00:27

our show. Yes, being

1:00:29

here, and I want to hang out

1:00:31

when I'm back in La.

1:00:33

Okay, for sure, let's go out.

1:00:34

We'll go out with Maria and we'll have some drinks.

1:00:36

Maria has to watch me drink though, because she doesn't drink,

1:00:39

so I don't drink either.

1:00:40

But oh well, then they both watch me and I'll.

1:00:42

Drink until ten

1:00:44

o'clock. I'm like everybody who drinks gets

1:00:46

boring after ten pm, so no

1:00:48

worry.

1:00:48

I'm I'm in bed by nine thirty.

1:00:50

Oh no problem, me too. Grandma hours.

1:00:52

That's what I call it. I keep Grandma hours.

1:00:55

So okay, Well take care. So

1:00:57

yeah, and Happy International Women's Day.

1:01:00

Wow.

1:01:01

We mentioned this at the start of the show, but the team

1:01:03

here at Dear Chelsea is celebrating International

1:01:05

Women's Day this week. For more programming

1:01:08

honoring the incredible women at the network

1:01:10

and worldwide, head over to iHeart Podcasts

1:01:12

International Women's Day feed by searching

1:01:15

Women Take the Mic wherever you look for podcasts.

1:01:18

We're featured alongside Therapy for Black

1:01:20

Girls, The Psychology of Your Twenties,

1:01:22

Cheeky's and Chill, the Nikki Glazer

1:01:25

Podcast, and others. That's Women

1:01:27

Take the Mic on the iHeartRadio app or wherever

1:01:29

you get your podcasts.

1:01:32

Okay, so, Chelsea Handler is my name and

1:01:34

comedy is my game. Comedy and

1:01:36

therapy are my games. I'm sorry, I

1:01:39

misspoke. I have added more shows.

1:01:41

I added a second show in Vancouver, so

1:01:43

I have two shows in Vancouver March twenty ninth

1:01:45

March thirtieth. Then I've added another

1:01:48

show in Sydney, Australia on July

1:01:50

thirteenth, So i have two shows in Sydney July

1:01:53

twelfth and thirteenth. For other shows in Australia

1:01:55

at New Zealand, go to Chelseahandler dot com.

1:01:57

And I've added two shows in Oklahoma,

1:02:00

Norman, Oklahoma on May third

1:02:03

and one in Thackerville, Oklahoma,

1:02:06

which is May fourth, and then I'll

1:02:08

be at the YouTube Theater May eleventh in Los

1:02:10

Angeles with Matteo Laine and

1:02:12

Vanessa Gonzalez and Fortune Femmester.

1:02:14

And Sam Jay. Those are my updates

1:02:17

and more shows are coming, so pay attention.

1:02:20

If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an

1:02:22

email at Dear Chelsea podcast at

1:02:24

gmail dot com and be sure to include your phone number.

1:02:27

Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by

1:02:29

Brad Dickard executive producer Catherine

1:02:31

Law and be sure to check out our merch at

1:02:33

Chelseahandler dot com