0:13

Hello and welcome. I'm Lari Numminen and the host

0:15

of Wonderful Work, a podcast where

0:17

we hear the voices and insights that make

0:19

business operations wonderful. In

0:22

today's episode, we get to hear from Stina

0:24

Gustavsson has a

0:26

wealth of experience leading global organizations

0:29

and strategic partnerships. You'll

0:31

see that she brings a sadly Swedish

0:33

optimism to new technology.

0:36

In today's episode, Stina will demystify

0:39

the foundations in robotic process

0:41

automation or RPA for shorts.

0:44

So, welcome Stina thank

0:46

you. Thank you for having me here. Thank you. Thank

0:48

you for having. And I have to say, um,

0:51

just, just this week I've been listening to, or

0:53

I've been watching, uh, on you on

0:55

Netflix, uh, the foundation

0:58

story of Spotify, a great Swedish

1:00

tech company, and, and it's full of

1:02

Swedish optimism to be honest. And that's what

1:04

we, that's what the sector needs in this kind

1:06

of time of uncertainty. Yeah.

1:10

Yeah, that's good. That's good. So

1:12

in this podcast, we'd like to get to know

1:14

our guests as people, as

1:17

humans. So we start with

1:19

a few foundational questions. So

1:21

Stephen, can you tell us something wonderful or surprising

1:23

that most people just don't know about you? I

1:26

think this is a quite difficult question. I have

1:28

to say I'm quite an open person, so I

1:30

don't know if, if it's so many secrets, um,

1:33

around me. Uh, but one thing

1:35

is that I love snow and I think that's something

1:37

that kind of comes across in my personality sometimes.

1:40

I mean, I'm born in the north, Sweden, and,

1:42

and for me snow, I actually tried

1:44

to, to change my last name when I was a little

1:46

bit quite. Few

1:49

years younger than I am today to

1:51

Snowflake, but I couldn't do that because it was already

1:53

taken in Swedish. so I

1:55

mean, for me, snow is something that I really, I

1:57

love snow and I love the cold as well.

2:00

It's something that comes across. I don't think I'm

2:02

a cold person, but it's putting me down to earth

2:04

and I love to go

2:06

and just stand outside in the snow, see

2:08

it snowing, makes me feel,

2:11

my having my feet on the ground. So

2:13

that's something. Probably people don't know

2:15

because I also like to sound and I like to be around

2:17

people, so that's something that is probably

2:20

not known about me. Okay.

2:22

And Fingers Cross will get snow very soon.

2:24

I think we're, we're just about that time of the year where

2:26

it's all gonna be magical in the Nordics. Yes.

2:30

Stina. When you were growing up as

2:32

a child, what did you wanna become as a,

2:35

uh, as a grown up? It's

2:37

actually a funny story around me as well. I,

2:40

I just found, I, I had been moving from

2:42

one house to another when you go through

2:45

your storage and everything you have and

2:47

you throw things away and so on. And

2:49

I find the front page article

2:51

when I was 11 years old where they interview

2:53

some people, about what they wanted to

2:55

do. And what he thought about the future

2:57

and what he wanted to do in the future. And

3:00

the funny thing was that I said as everybody else,

3:02

I want to work with humans. I want to work with animals.

3:05

I want to change the world. Uh, that was exactly

3:07

the same thing with me, that, that we were free

3:09

of us that was interviewed. But the thing

3:11

that kind of differs me from the others was that I

3:13

said, It's one thing I don't want to do.

3:16

And that that is to work with, with

3:18

computers or robots, because really

3:20

those will, those will take over

3:22

the world. I'm scared of them,

3:25

and they will never be humans without

3:27

a human brain. So for that reason, I will never,

3:29

ever work with something that has to do with computers

3:31

or robots. And here I am. And

3:34

here you are and we're not gonna spoil how, how

3:36

you got into the world just yet. But, but

3:38

you as a university, you studied sociology

3:40

and communication, so it was, you were

3:42

heading in a different path. Um,

3:44

how did these kind of, you know, foundations

3:47

set you up for this kind of technical

3:49

career in international business? I

3:51

did, as you said, studies, sociology

3:54

and journalists and communication actually.

3:56

But all, all my studies was actually

3:59

around in culture. Organizations,

4:02

sociology and things like that. So the culture

4:04

and international, uh, organization

4:07

and people have always been to my mind, I kind

4:09

of like when you, when you have to put people together

4:12

from different, Different

4:14

cultures, but also different genders

4:16

and everything and see how that works

4:18

and how beneficial it can be if you understand

4:20

them. That has been throughout my,

4:22

university degrees and, and studies as well

4:24

and my interest throughout my life, I would

4:26

say, um, how

4:28

it then came into a technology spec

4:31

that's maybe the most surprising

4:33

things. If you see where you

4:35

can do quite a lot of changes, and that

4:37

has been quite a lot of changes, in

4:40

my working life has been actually technology.

4:43

I'm still working a lot with humans

4:45

in the technology space. I'm working

4:47

with putting partners, sales

4:49

organizations together and try understand,

4:51

uh, the user. Perspective

4:54

of the products we are doing

4:57

and robotics process and ai.

4:59

I'm a little bit still there

5:01

where I was starting, but of course

5:03

it has been moving on to the technology sector.

5:06

Is that, Yeah, it sounds

5:08

like you're in the technology revolution,

5:10

but on the side of the human talent and that,

5:12

that regard, so great to hear that.

5:15

How did you get into technology, working

5:17

in technology? Was it something that drew you in

5:19

or you, was there a story. I

5:22

mean, it was a coincident

5:24

of course, that it always usually are

5:26

when you are in that age. my first job

5:28

I had was from my journalism

5:30

communications, sector. And I

5:33

was working one year with the, Ministry

5:35

of me Educat in Sweden. And we

5:37

were, doing a round tour in

5:39

Sweden to try to figure out what kind

5:42

of it. Solutions

5:45

that was then implemented in schools in,

5:48

and then we actually gathered all those

5:50

things and show it at

5:52

the exhibition in Geneva,

5:55

this international telecom big

5:58

thing. That was a really, really big thing at that

6:00

time. And then the Ministry of Education

6:02

was there. Standing

6:04

out from Sweden to show the, what we had done because

6:06

we were quite far ahead, compared to the

6:08

world at that time. So that was

6:10

where I started, and then I came

6:13

into contact with a lot of other companies and

6:15

I was, I mean, I just came from university.

6:18

Uh, so I got a job in a company

6:20

called Unisource, which was the Swedish tale

6:23

together with the Spanish pity

6:25

and Italian pity and also,

6:28

Dutch btt, that was, um,

6:32

they were starting to,

6:35

build the wide area

6:37

network. This was long time

6:39

ago, but it was, I mean, in the starting

6:42

point, it hasn't been, it hadn't been done before.

6:44

So we were actually helping supporting the especially

6:46

telia than to to sell by the area network,

6:49

which wasn't possible before. Sounds

6:51

like I'm a hundred years old when I'm talking now, but not

6:55

at all. I mean, this is, the pace of technology

6:57

sometimes feels very fast and very

7:00

kind of long, wide at the same

7:02

time. So those changes. I'm

7:04

sure they, they, they gave you huge,

7:06

uh, kind of jumping point for your,

7:08

for your career. Um, Yeah, and it also

7:10

then when I started in technology, I, I thought

7:12

it was just tech, of course, as everybody else

7:15

do. But then I realized when I came into

7:17

the technology area, uh, that

7:19

the, the thing that is important is that you

7:21

do have this human understanding

7:24

and, and because, I mean, you can't sell on tech.

7:26

You need to sell on. On

7:28

the, on the customer and the behavior they have, and

7:30

they need to understand what you're buying. Otherwise

7:33

you will not be able to sell it and get

7:35

it implemented and scale it. So, I

7:37

mean, it, it didn't take long until

7:39

I understood that my knowledge and my, my interest

7:41

was really important in this sector as well. Yeah.

7:44

And also my interest in understanding the technology,

7:46

Deep technology, of course, but not in a deep

7:48

level, has never been. but I, I

7:50

really like to understand how it could be

7:52

used. Yeah. And

7:55

actually let's double down on that. Let's,

7:57

let's talk about, before we get into the technology,

7:59

let's talk about change management because the human

8:01

factor is so important now,

8:04

you've had an opportunity to work for all

8:06

kinds of organizations in your career,

8:08

both the Nordic, companies and organizations,

8:10

but also global cultures and business.

8:13

When it comes to change management, in the business

8:15

context, why is this so important to consider

8:18

when you're considering automation?

8:24

I think it is for all new technologies,

8:26

especially automation Now, as, this is the thing

8:28

that we are talking about here, because change management,

8:30

if you don't apply a management

8:32

structure and thinking when you do,

8:35

for example, implement automation or want

8:37

to. Put it into

8:39

your company, that will not be used

8:41

because if you don't understand, it's a change because it's

8:44

a major change because you do affect

8:46

the organization as such and you affect

8:49

each of every employee usually when

8:51

you come in with automation. And

8:53

that needs to be a change management. Cause

8:56

you can't just put it in, You don't, you can't. Think

8:59

that it will be a tool as such

9:02

and it will not have an effect on the company.

9:04

You need to understand that, and that's why

9:06

I think change management is so important because

9:08

even if it's a technology you implement

9:10

as such in the company, it's the humans

9:13

that works in the company that will be affected and

9:15

need to understand it. They need to understand how

9:17

this will change the organization and need to understand how

9:19

it should be used, and also understand

9:21

what the overall strategy and

9:23

thoughts is about the change that happens in

9:25

the. And,

9:28

when it comes to this change management, have you observed

9:30

any differences in work cultures when it comes

9:32

to the attitudes towards automating

9:35

work? Of course I have.

9:37

As you know, I started off in Euro path,

9:39

almost five years ago, and it was, Really

9:42

the start of RPA when it is really

9:44

was widely spread from, I

9:46

mean, these five years, it started from people

9:48

not knowing what it is to today, that

9:50

most people at least have heard about it. They might

9:52

not even know what it is, but have heard about rpa.

9:55

so I mean it's that, that has

9:57

changed massively, their

10:00

attitude. And it has also been, I think

10:02

what I have seen mostly is that it has moved

10:04

from being an IT and tech

10:07

thing. To a business

10:10

and the C level, interest

10:12

and decisions sometimes, but interest as well.

10:15

the interest will come throughout the company

10:17

and especially when people understand

10:19

that they can influencing, do things

10:21

themselves and their voice will be heard,

10:23

which changes they want to do, and then

10:26

the leadership understand that this is actually

10:28

needed and can be a. Business

10:31

outcome in the end, uh, by doing that.

10:33

So I think now, now it's much more vitally

10:35

spread without throughout the companies

10:37

that it was when, I mean, just four years ago,

10:41

that it was an IT question. And

10:43

it kind of, you do have to bring in it the

10:46

senior leadership, but also the functional, Everybody

10:48

needs to be involved, so it shouldn't take away it,

10:50

but I think it's where, where the discussion starts

10:53

or maybe end up in the before

10:55

it was actually an IT question

10:58

that maybe didn't even get out of

11:00

it, and now it's actually

11:02

getting out of it and, and the decision

11:05

can be taken or influenced somewhere

11:07

else in the. Or even the initiatives

11:09

for, for automation can come from, from the

11:12

business side of the, of the company. Before it

11:14

was always more or less, I would

11:16

say 95% was an IT initiative.

11:18

Yeah. And um,

11:21

would you have any practical advice, let's say,

11:23

for the business leadership on

11:25

addressing the culture shift and change

11:27

towards automation? How do you

11:29

drive this kind of transformation in your

11:31

organization? What

11:34

I think is really important that you understand, this

11:36

is a, this is something that is a major change

11:38

for the company. This is something that you need. I

11:40

mean, you should, you should think

11:42

about it, how it fits into your strategy, what

11:44

you can do with automation, how

11:47

it will be affecting the company, what kind of outcome

11:49

you want to do, what kind of expectation you want

11:52

to do, and you should always understand. It's

11:54

an investment from your side, and I'm not really

11:57

just thinking about money here. You

11:59

need to understand that you, it's

12:01

not just a tool that you implement. You need

12:03

to put the time and effort and,

12:05

and money, uh, of course to do so,

12:08

or coming into one of my

12:10

key points. You, you need to

12:12

use a partner that can help you and support

12:14

you in building this to get the best

12:17

outcome. On what? on the things that you have

12:19

been implemented. love that reflection.

12:22

Um, now you have a really

12:24

interesting, uh, group of colleagues

12:26

now they're very international in the

12:28

extremes. You have American culture

12:30

and you have finished culture, and I

12:32

would say Sweden is probably somewhere in between

12:35

where you have to, to learn

12:37

to work with best of both worlds. How

12:39

do you think the Swedish approach, uh,

12:41

equips you in this environment that

12:44

you're living in? I,

12:46

I think it's interesting because,

12:49

uh, as, as you probably understand how

12:51

I do love different cultures, different people

12:53

as well, and how to pull them together

12:55

to common goal or common

12:57

interest and, common outcome as well.

13:00

And I think that Rob Corp, actually,

13:02

that was one of the major things except for

13:04

the, for the technology was the company

13:06

and the people that was there. It's a, it. It's

13:09

a major, um, employee stack

13:11

in Finland. Uh, and I love fin

13:14

uh, I love to work with FIN and I, of course,

13:16

I feel at home because it's the Nordics, even

13:18

if it's a different country than Sweden done. Um,

13:21

but they are really direct. If you, now,

13:23

this is generalizations, of course, it's different

13:25

people, but I mean, Finnish people are quite

13:27

direct compared to Swedish people. They are also

13:29

taking decisions quite fast, which I do

13:32

like. But

13:34

they say what they think. And then you work with a lot of Americans,

13:36

which the, the second part of the, of

13:38

the company, uh, is belonging to,

13:41

which also say what they want, but in different,

13:43

in a totally different way. And I,

13:45

I think from a Swedish perspective, being there

13:47

in the middle, I mean, we are known for being diplomatic.

13:50

Um, some people say we are slow because

13:52

everybody needs to be part of a decision.

13:55

Uh, but I also know that that's a, that's a,

13:57

sometimes it could be a really good thing because

13:59

you listen to, to all parts in the discussions

14:01

and you kind. Put the

14:04

message out so it's understood by

14:06

the audience instead of just saying what

14:08

you would like to, I mean, you know what you would like to, but you just

14:10

kind of put the message a little

14:12

bit difference due to the fact that you have

14:14

an understandable, the way that you're doing it in

14:16

different countries and cultures. And I think

14:18

this is something that, from a Swedish perspective,

14:21

it could be really beneficial in

14:24

a company with a lot of ins and Americas.

14:26

From a general, this is a general comment

14:29

of course, from generalization. We have

14:32

all people in Rob COR is great. Yeah.

14:34

And of course, but of course there are different upbringing,

14:37

different cultures and different ways of doing

14:39

things as well. And of course that that's

14:41

kind of those generalizations where you have these different

14:43

cultures in large businesses. This

14:46

is not the exception. This is the norm. And

14:48

you have to have this adaptability to understand

14:50

how the culture, technology, and then the

14:52

community work well together.

14:54

Yeah, and I think it's also, I, I do

14:56

believe that's not what we have today in Rubber

14:59

Corp, but. Probably will have as well

15:01

later on, but I think it's, it's really

15:03

important that you have

15:05

defeat on the ground. when you do business

15:08

in a country, I think you, you

15:10

can understand to a certain standpoint

15:13

the culture, but before living

15:15

there and being up brought there, you can

15:17

never understand the culture fully. I,

15:20

I think that's impossible actually. so

15:22

for that reason, I think it's al always

15:24

a strength to have at least somebody

15:26

with the feet on the ground, that lives in the country

15:28

when you do act or have a business

15:31

in a country as well. Yeah. Absolutely

15:33

makes a ton of sense. So

15:36

let's jump into the meaty topic today.

15:38

Robotic Process automation, RPA

15:40

for short. It is probably one of the biggest

15:42

themes in business operations right now.

15:45

It's full of innovation, as you said.

15:47

It's some, it's a topic that's been changing

15:49

in the last five years and. Rapidly

15:51

growing in your previous role in

15:53

UiPath, but also in your current role at robocop.

15:56

You have been there from the start and you have

15:58

this kind of unique view of where

16:00

this merging technology is going. how

16:03

have you learned to describe RPA

16:05

to your friends and family? most

16:09

of my family and friends are not in tech.

16:11

so I I, I go from the beginning. I. Usually

16:14

start to try to do it as a human or a

16:16

task force that do things for you. And

16:18

I said, RPA is like a help and support.

16:20

It will help you, support you to do the rep

16:23

repetitive things that you don't. that

16:26

you do all the times, maybe don't even

16:28

think about it. They do that for you so you can

16:30

concentrate more on the things

16:32

that you can develop and, that maybe

16:34

have some more content into it so you will

16:36

have more time to do what you hopefully

16:39

and most of the time things, it's more fun. Yeah,

16:42

and I think that resonates with anyone who time

16:44

is probably the most valuable asset in the world. It's not

16:47

money, it's the time that people have. No, I think I

16:50

actually do things that, that RPA has come

16:53

from. Of course, return on investments is really

16:55

important when it comes to RPA and automation.

16:57

Dependently on who you talk to. But

16:59

I mean, when I started five years ago, that was the only

17:01

thing that you were talking. And I think

17:03

that is one of the major things that I think has

17:06

changed, that now you can actually see the

17:08

real output and essence of automation

17:10

and what more it gives you as

17:13

a company or a human being. and

17:15

now that it is really a spotlight in conversation

17:17

in businesses, who do you think

17:19

in a business organization should be most interested

17:22

in rpa? I

17:26

think everybody should be, but in

17:28

different ways, and I think they are. I

17:31

think of course, that, that the C level

17:33

and the leadership should be

17:35

really interested due to the fact

17:37

that it gives you return on investment. That

17:39

you can measure really. It's quite easy

17:41

to measure. It, give you the effectiveness

17:44

of the business you're doing, and the

17:46

quality, but it also give you a really good

17:48

customer and employee satisfaction. That

17:50

should be one of the major in interests

17:53

of a leadership, I would say, in

17:55

a company. but of course,

17:57

if you see middle management, they usually

17:59

are the ones that, that face the

18:02

challenge with resources. And

18:04

for them it's also really important

18:06

to be able to focus the resources

18:08

they do have on. On the things that

18:10

is important for them. So they

18:12

might, of course return investment is important for them

18:14

as well, but maybe it's more from a resourcing

18:16

perspective. And then if you see

18:18

the people that, the employees that works in the company,

18:20

they can also be more influential and they can

18:22

come up with ideas and things to change in

18:24

the company, and they have a tool

18:27

that can help them to get. I

18:29

would say with all the, attended

18:33

and helping assistant bots,

18:35

you do have that. You can put up your own on your

18:37

own processes and ideas to how to automate

18:40

it to help their own work,

18:42

but also the groups work, so somebody else work

18:44

in the company and it will also make

18:46

them, if they, even if they don't have ID someone

18:48

to develop it in that sense. they can

18:50

take part of things that has been done in the

18:52

company and have more time

18:55

for doing and develop

18:57

hopefully what they would like to do and

18:59

think more and, go a step further

19:01

with their, with the job they have today, whatever

19:03

they do. That's a very

19:06

clear and comprehensive benefit there and, The

19:09

perspective that I also see is that kind

19:11

of in business operations, when we're looking at

19:13

it from the intelligence point of view, we can see that

19:16

in some functions it's 40% of your work is

19:18

quite repetitive. It's not necessarily like

19:20

value adding. It's literally reviews and approvals

19:23

and copy paste. Now, who wouldn't

19:25

want to give 40% more time for

19:27

their team? It's kind of a

19:29

no-brainer, but the business metrics are very clear

19:31

as well. And I don't

19:33

think you are. I don't always think that you are aware

19:35

of that, that how much of the rep, repetitive

19:38

things that you are doing before

19:42

somebody actually. can take

19:44

it away from you. I mean, then I think you can

19:46

realize how much time you can free out, but I think

19:48

it's difficult sometimes, especially if you have done something

19:50

for a longer time to understand

19:53

what is something that could be done

19:55

differently. The

19:57

benefits are clear. I think it

20:00

sounds almost too good to be true. Are

20:02

there some common mistakes or misconceptions that

20:04

people still have about RPA that

20:06

you come. Yeah. The,

20:08

the thing is that I said before, I think I, I pointed

20:11

it out, is that you can just implement it and let

20:13

it be there and something will happen. The outcome

20:15

will happen. I think most companies

20:18

actually understand that today or take

20:20

support, from a partner or from the

20:22

vendor, but I think it's a partner that's much easier

20:24

because they are agnostic in another way and they can understand

20:26

a business need in a better way

20:28

than a software company can. That

20:31

actually should be more concentrated on the software.

20:34

But I think some people do an investment. They

20:36

buy bots, they put them there and

20:39

then they realize after a year or two that the utilization

20:41

of the bots hasn't been good. They haven't really

20:44

reached the outcome that they did expect to do.

20:46

And they haven't really been following it up

20:48

and work with it during the time. So I think

20:50

that's one of the biggest mistake that

20:52

I have seen. And I have also experienced that,

20:55

that you think it's easier than it is and you don't

20:57

really see your own part

21:00

of the investment in resources

21:02

time strategy. I'm

21:05

sure many IT functions are not

21:07

happy to hear if there's additional effort

21:09

to maintain, if you can't see that total

21:11

cost of the package and the total effort that

21:14

is required for maintaining as well. So it's a good

21:16

advice there. No, and I think, that's also

21:18

one thing that I saw when I started off the DoPay.

21:20

I, saw that it was the ones that we were facing,

21:22

but it was also the hindrance for our pay,

21:24

I would say, in a lot of times

21:27

because they thought it was a, as

21:29

we said, a bandage on the wounds or, I mean,

21:32

it's, it's, it shouldn't be there. You should change it

21:34

from the ground. That's done. But I think that has changed

21:36

a lot as well, really a lot.

21:38

and that's something that, that I can see. It's a much

21:41

more, I shouldn't say acceptance because

21:43

that's the wrong word, from an. But

21:45

they can really see the benefits of

21:47

our pay, in con everything

21:50

they do Then. They

21:52

don't really see it just a balance anymore. In

21:55

our work process, intelligence is what

21:57

work well does and rpa, which is your

21:59

level of expertise, they come together

22:01

in a field called intelligent automation where it's

22:03

all about kind of understanding how you take

22:06

business operations and automate

22:08

them efficiently and in intelligent

22:10

technology. What

22:12

are the kind of areas that you think intelligent

22:14

automation is really driving forward in a business?

22:17

Do you have any examples of where the opportunity

22:19

lies? I

22:23

see it in everything I would say, especially

22:25

when you see it as a intelligent automation,

22:28

when you pull things together. I think

22:30

that is one of the, one of the major thing

22:32

you will see in the future is the

22:34

integration between different tools. And

22:37

I think the understanding of the different

22:40

things that you could do with something that is the

22:42

most important. If you don't

22:44

want to do it today, I think you need to

22:46

have it in your planning to go forward. but that's

22:48

some of the responsibility of the software

22:51

companies and the partners, I would say, to

22:53

be able to. To tell

22:55

the companies and to predict

22:57

the future in a bit so they

23:00

can have a time for start planning what

23:02

they need to do. And I think the intelligent

23:04

automation, I think their pay will be a shit

23:06

in the middle where you, oh shit in the middle, that's

23:08

the wrong word for from a English perspective, but

23:11

It will be the glue in the middle that,

23:13

that kind of hold everything together,

23:15

where you will add and integrate with different

23:18

parts and in process mining as you

23:20

do work with, or task mining that

23:22

you, I know that you have as well, but other things.

23:25

But I think we will see this multi

23:27

vendor, strategy as well

23:29

from a risk perspective where the companies

23:31

actually need to take some. External,

23:34

if they don't have the knowledge themselves, that

23:36

is agnostic, that can actually pull all

23:38

those things together and

23:40

make the best outcome for that specific

23:43

company. and also that, that some

23:45

things can change if needed. from both,

23:47

from a risk perspective, it's happen something with a

23:49

company or, from another

23:52

need or wish from the. So

23:54

then you don't have to change the whole,

23:57

solution, you can just change parts

23:59

that you would like to improve or take

24:02

away or add. Yeah, I think that's

24:04

will be more of the things that I will see in the

24:06

future. But the outcome, it will be, I think

24:08

it will be a necessary thing to have,

24:11

to be able to compete in the market going

24:13

forward. And

24:15

I think people, employees will expect

24:18

some automation to be implemented,

24:21

in the future. Yeah. And it,

24:23

it's one of these mega trends in business

24:25

where before there was an assumption

24:27

that there's a full suite approach where kind

24:30

of you can do everything in one go and one

24:32

piece of a stack of software is gonna cure

24:35

all e os or problems. What

24:37

we're seeing as well is this ecosystems

24:39

of very specific, intelligent tools

24:42

that do specific things but collaborate

24:45

and align with each other really well. And

24:47

that's one of the kind of driving directions

24:49

that you're now taking in your new role.

24:52

You're working on strategic partnerships.

24:54

This sounds like an amazing opportunity

24:57

in the world we are today where technology,

25:00

is enabling such rapid change.

25:02

Now tell me what does your typical day look like?

25:05

what kind of strategic partnerships, uh, what,

25:07

what are they? As

25:09

you said, partnership is the most fun

25:11

thing to do if you ask me, because

25:14

that's so important, I think for the, both

25:16

from the customer side and all the organization

25:18

you're working with, but also from a software

25:20

company. it is an extension of

25:22

both the customer and the software company

25:25

that is needed for both, I would say

25:27

most of the time. As

25:29

you do know, I did join Rob

25:32

Corp. One and a half months ago.

25:34

So I'm fairly new into

25:36

Rob Corp. It's such an exciting

25:38

moment in time. I

25:41

love every day of it. And,

25:43

but on the other hand, it's difficult

25:45

to say what I do day to day with the partnership

25:48

because one of my major

25:50

focus at the moment is brand awareness.

25:52

Of course. I have to say

25:54

surpr, positively surprising. That

25:57

has been much easier than I thought when I started

25:59

Rob Corp. it's easier than it was when

26:01

I started U UiPath, because

26:04

Rob Corp is more known, even

26:06

though they don't know. It's really

26:08

what we do, but the name itself

26:10

and the brands is known by most

26:12

of the big partners and the strategic

26:15

partners that we do have on our wishlist.

26:18

So of course I have a list of partners that I think

26:20

we should cooperate and partnership within

26:22

the, in, in the future, and today.

26:25

My daily job is to try to. talk

26:28

to them, enable the partners on

26:31

the technology, make them from

26:33

a business. It's not just technology, enablement,

26:36

it's also business enablement. Try

26:39

to understand how Robo Corp

26:41

will fit into their organization and they

26:43

need to understand the same thing from their side

26:46

and also align with jointly customer

26:48

opportunities. so that's something I do day

26:50

to day now, and try. to

26:53

start working on the partner program

26:56

and try to implement the partner program

26:58

to make it easy for the partners to

27:00

work with Rob Corp and

27:02

make it easy for the customer to understand

27:05

what kind of offer the partner

27:07

and Rob Corp can do together

27:09

jointly for a proposal or

27:11

an opportunity or also an ongoing.

27:14

Delivery of course. And,

27:16

in the field of enterprise software where

27:18

we're talking about systems that serve

27:21

large business needs, it partnerships

27:23

are severely important. how would you describe the

27:25

role of partnerships for Enterprise software?

27:30

I wouldn't say it's, I wouldn't even say it's important.

27:32

I would say it's crucial, now if I use

27:35

Rob Core, but I can use my former employee,

27:38

UI path as well, which is much, much bigger company.

27:40

Without the partnership, we can't really

27:43

extend, we can't answer to

27:45

all the requests we do get for sure. We will

27:47

not have the organization to be able to do so.

27:50

but on the other hand, we will not have.

27:53

Extension that we do need on the market. the,

27:55

I would say that the partners is the extension

27:58

of it, the company that is not just a partnership

28:00

without them, we will not be

28:03

able to grow the way we would like to grow. We

28:05

will not be able to reach the customers that

28:07

we would like to reach. We will, we can't

28:10

say, and we will never have the same relationships,

28:12

that the major. Partners

28:15

do you have that has been working with that customer for

28:17

sometimes 15, 20 years? Not

28:19

in automation, but in other things.

28:22

So, I mean, that's a, that's a thing that

28:24

you can't really, you can't question it. It's, it's

28:26

crucial. Uh, for, for

28:29

Rob or, or for a UiPath or for

28:31

any enterprise software company, I

28:33

would assume. So

28:35

I think it's really important and it's really important

28:37

that we do make it, a partnership because

28:39

partnership for me is not the sales situation.

28:42

Partnership is when you do work jointly together.

28:44

And it should be a clear win-win situation,

28:47

where we actually see that we can, increase

28:50

the benefit of what we are doing

28:52

ourself. And it should be something that

28:54

is better together than

28:57

each of us would do. If

29:00

we go to the market by ourself. So

29:02

I think that's the thing that I think is the

29:04

challenge, but also the really fun part of

29:07

working with partners is that it's

29:09

finding these really common opportunities,

29:11

common partnership, finding

29:13

the win-win situations and how we could

29:15

actually develop things together, being

29:18

even better going forward. It

29:21

sounds like, a very, very smart

29:23

idea. How about some of the benefits

29:25

that partnerships can bring to end clients,

29:27

the actual kind of users of the software?

29:30

Do you have any kinda reflection? I think we did

29:32

touch on that one when we were talking about,

29:34

what we think in the future for automation.

29:36

I think what partner can, I mean, partner

29:38

has the, they have the size of the company

29:41

to start with. They have a professional services

29:43

organization with consultants that

29:45

is. especially when we're talking about the strategic

29:48

customers that are used, huge.

29:50

They have the expertise in business

29:53

and different technologies, not

29:56

the specific software. They have all of them.

29:58

So they do have expertise in

30:00

things that, that a software. Company

30:02

can never have that will bring, something

30:05

to the customer because they can add automation

30:07

in things that the customer wouldn't even think

30:10

of due to their expertise. But

30:13

they also have the strategy and the way

30:15

of helping and supporting the strategy

30:17

going forward for a customer.

30:20

And they can do that in an agnostic way.

30:22

If I come in as a software, Partner

30:26

or, vendor to customer.

30:28

I'm always having a sales and

30:30

a customer relationship. I

30:33

will of course, just talk about my software.

30:35

I will not give them an, another example

30:38

of something else. And. I

30:40

shouldn't anyway, but when you come

30:42

in with a partner, they can also pick and choose

30:44

in a totally different way that shoots the customer

30:47

and they can trust with expertise they do have

30:49

in different tooling. They can actually

30:52

trust them to do either a multi vendor

30:54

solution, but they can also. Choose

30:57

and pick what we did talk about before. If

30:59

you see in the business intelligence

31:02

automation spectra or even

31:04

the ai, they can actually pull

31:07

the solution together that shoots the customer

31:10

in a much better way where,

31:12

because I think that's where you get to outcome when

31:14

you do add those different,

31:17

software. And other tools as

31:19

well, of course to a full solution.

31:22

And that's where the partner comes in, because

31:24

usually the companies doesn't really have

31:26

these resources to do so and they don't

31:28

have the expertise. Shouldn't have, because that's

31:30

not their core business. No. And

31:33

that's very well reflected oftentimes

31:35

as well. The partners are very good at stimulating

31:37

the development of the sector where the vendors

31:40

get better at servicing the needs of customers

31:42

when they get that very active feedback of what's

31:44

really driving need. and one other

31:46

things that, when you said that as well, the partners can

31:48

also. Put the put, not

31:50

put the pressure on the, on the vendors, but they

31:52

can also add in information

31:55

that needs to be changed. And then we could

31:57

change it for the customer and other customers

31:59

as well, because they can come in with,

32:01

they can gather much larger,

32:04

Information stacks that can

32:06

then, that they can pull back. It's not just

32:08

one customer say complaining. It's more, it's

32:10

more, they said, This is not working for

32:13

this amount of customer or this sector or this

32:15

industry. And that could also help

32:17

the customers. To help the vendors of course,

32:19

and the, and the software vendors. But it also

32:21

helps the customer in the long run. Yeah,

32:24

absolutely. With one

32:26

and a half months in the new role. It may be, early

32:29

stage to ask, but the new year is coming.

32:31

2023 is just around the corner. What

32:33

are the kind of things that you're seeing are gonna be your

32:35

priorities for the new year ahead, your first

32:38

year in the role? Enable

32:43

as many partners, any qualified

32:46

partners as. Because

32:48

I think working with the strategic partners

32:50

is really important, that it's the right partners

32:52

as well, that really can be this, that

32:56

we can really build this partnership with. and

32:59

of course all partners are equally

33:01

important. I'm not saying that they are more important,

33:04

but you need to put a little bit more time

33:06

and effort into those partners, both

33:08

because they, Are agnostic. They have all

33:10

the other tools as well. But

33:12

in the long run, for a large enterprise,

33:14

these are the partners that can really help

33:16

to enlarge and scale those kind of businesses.

33:19

Yeah. so for me it will be,

33:21

my main focus will be of

33:24

course, to, Be

33:26

there talking to them. So they trust me and trust

33:28

Rob Corp as a partner. But

33:31

the second thing is to enable them from a

33:33

technically perspective and a

33:36

commercial perspective. Or when I say commercial,

33:39

it's more to understand the pricing models, understanding

33:41

the. The specific things

33:44

that Rob Core has that differs

33:46

from other RPA tools and that

33:48

could be also developed. So you can talk

33:50

about Rob Core into your opportunities

33:53

in business and also of course,

33:55

What else will I do? I will do

33:58

joint opportunities. That's the main things. That's

34:00

where we want to come. That's something I will focus quite

34:02

a lot on. I will probably put aside enablement

34:04

and everything if I need to, if they have a

34:06

lot of, you need to have that. Cause otherwise the joint

34:09

opportunities will not be good. But everything

34:11

come to, to be able to work on opportunities

34:13

together and successfully

34:16

deliver. Automation to the customers.

34:19

That's something that I will do together with those strategic

34:21

partners that we have decided to work

34:23

with jointly. And

34:25

that sounds like an exciting, mission to head

34:27

towards as you head in new thing you can do. I

34:29

love it. Yeah, Absolutely. Now

34:32

Robic Corp, I think you mentioned that it

34:34

has a good awareness already. It has

34:37

to be part of the marketing because it's

34:39

a really cool name. You have a company

34:41

mascot that's a funky monkey. I

34:44

see a lot of your content everywhere. but

34:46

to, can you just describe what is it that Robo

34:49

Corp does differently from other vendors

34:51

in the rpa? Rob

34:53

Corp is, is actually coming

34:55

across as the gen two. R

34:58

Pay vendor. I would

35:00

say that the are, I can't prove it, but

35:02

I think, and it's actually I have seen it as well,

35:04

is the leading, Gen two RPA

35:07

vendor. Gen two is something that you

35:09

do say whatever you talk about, but what does it

35:11

mean in this content? I Robo Corp is actually

35:13

building on the open source. Framework

35:17

or platform, they have put a robotic

35:19

framework on the top and then they have a

35:21

orchestration that managed

35:24

the door pay and

35:26

delivered that to the customer. As a gen

35:29

two, you never have to do the mistakes the gen

35:31

one has done. You can skip those things, so

35:33

you start from a different, different

35:36

perspective. You don't have to do those mistakes

35:38

and you don't have to do those investments. Of course,

35:41

that those mistakes is given.

35:44

They have based everything on Python, which

35:46

is a language as you do know that is, is

35:48

really common. And it's easy to

35:51

integrate everything onto that one, which

35:53

makes it's really flexible

35:55

and really easy to use. that's

35:58

also what I have done and one of the other

36:00

things. I would

36:02

say that we, that Robo Corp is doing

36:05

really good is that they have implemented consumption

36:07

based pricing and that

36:09

doesn't It means that you pay for what you use,

36:12

but it also means that you

36:14

can be assure that Robo Corp. Will

36:16

not sit back and be fat and happy

36:19

when something has been, when you have signed

36:21

a contract. Because for us to

36:24

really gain any value is when

36:26

the customers is using. For us it's

36:28

really important to make sure that

36:30

the utilization and

36:32

the business outcome is coming and that we

36:34

push data, scale it forward together, other.

36:37

It will not give us anything and it will not give

36:39

the customer, but it's a share risk that is

36:42

really beneficial when you do talk to

36:44

and customers. And also

36:46

the speed of automation is something that is

36:48

really something that differs, Gen

36:51

one, vendor because you can

36:54

actually deploy. Much. you can

36:56

deploy a lot of bots for something that you

36:58

want to do in a short time and it doesn't

37:00

cost more. we don't have any license model

37:03

as such, so you don't have to buy licenses

37:05

for. 400 robots

37:07

to do something that you would do in maybe

37:10

two month. Then you do just

37:13

deploy, robots for two month

37:15

and then you can take hundred, but you don't use them

37:17

for a really short time. And the cost in the end will

37:19

be the same as if you, you

37:21

can do much more in that short time than you would

37:23

do if you had, licenses that you

37:26

had to apply. So

37:28

all these things is something that has been asked

37:30

for a long time and hasn't been able to be

37:32

sold in an easy way from the traditional Gen

37:34

one operators that now it's

37:37

actually something that could be done from the beginning

37:39

with the gen two. And that

37:41

was one of the reason for me joining Robo

37:43

Corp as well. This is something that I've been waiting for

37:46

happening and I really do believe in

37:48

the way that, that Robo Corpus is, is

37:51

actually going into the market as well. Yeah. And,

37:53

and the product that, that they are, that

37:55

we are actually having started

37:58

to promote on the market now.

38:01

And I can imagine that you've really seen the journey

38:04

of RPA from the early days to this

38:06

kind of, okay, this is a, a good

38:08

pilot to try and now you're talking about generation

38:10

two, and it has all the

38:12

learnings come along the way from the last

38:14

few years. Is this now mainstream?

38:17

Is this still new from the companies that you

38:19

talk to? Or is this this something that is

38:21

like, Uh, ready

38:24

for enterprise. It's not mainstream.

38:26

I wouldn't use that word today. It

38:28

will be, I can't say when, but it's,

38:30

it might be in two

38:33

to three years. It could be five years, it could be 10,

38:35

but it will be there. but it's known

38:37

and it's used by most of the enterprise

38:39

customers anyway, in some way. I

38:41

think, Do know the word.

38:44

They do understand a little bit what

38:46

it is and it's used in most companies

38:49

at the moment. But I wouldn't say it's mainstream because

38:51

I think it could be used in so many

38:53

more ways and needs to be,

38:55

to be mainstream. And

38:58

imagine you're in the and will be. Yeah.

39:01

Imagine you're, you're in the shoes of, uh, a

39:03

process leader, operational excellence

39:05

leader in a large company. Where

39:07

do you see the RPAs heading for the next five

39:09

years? Where are the big opportunities up?

39:16

It depends where you start from, I would say

39:19

in that, in that company. But I

39:21

think, I think data to,

39:23

to kind of cons, consolidate

39:25

data and work with data that you do

39:27

have. I think that's where some, somewhere

39:30

where you go, but it will go from.

39:33

As we did mention in the beginning, I think it will

39:35

not be r pay as, as a

39:37

so thing that you have, you

39:40

need to have some process mining

39:42

to understand the processes you need to have task

39:44

mining to, be, you have to have the whole saying.

39:47

I think that's where you do have the main,

39:50

I mean, I don't know if it's a, you said a process leader.

39:52

I'm not sure if that, but that's come from to them as

39:54

well. I mean that could come from the whole company and a process

39:56

leader, I think to underst. How

39:59

everything fits together and, and what

40:01

kind of really good output you can

40:03

do. Because if you use just our

40:05

pay without really understanding from

40:08

a process mining perspective, what would you really

40:10

do with the process? you can

40:13

have some benefits with our pay. Of course you

40:15

can, but not the full picture. And I think

40:17

that's where we will see, the

40:19

main thing happening. It's the integration

40:21

between different tools for a fuller

40:23

solution, if you would like to say that.

40:26

and I think that's what process leader

40:28

and companies will start using.

40:32

More commonly they wouldn't think

40:34

that they could take away one or

40:36

another. They will actually pull them together

40:38

to get the whole benefit from Yeah,

40:41

from the ecosystem. And that is really well

40:43

said. I can imagine that this intelligent enterprise,

40:46

it's not just enabled by one

40:48

visionary, but it's the combination

40:50

of these different tools and approaches that

40:52

just complement each other and, and

40:54

just smarter ways of, of running business

40:57

than we have. Yeah, and it's not just

40:59

to solving a, a challenge or a problem

41:01

here. It's more put

41:04

into the strategy of the whole company

41:07

and to be part of the future

41:09

of the company instead of just solving

41:12

a problem they see in front of them. I think that's

41:14

where you see the change as well. It's more

41:16

into the, to the strategy. Of

41:19

the future of the company. Yeah. we're

41:22

getting to the fantastic discussion

41:24

we're getting to the end of here where, if

41:26

people wanna look into the future and follow

41:28

your vision, what are the kind of resources

41:30

you would recommend listeners to follow? resources

41:34

from knowledge or respo resources from. I

41:37

think from your perspective, if you were looking

41:40

at the future of RPA and where the

41:42

things are headed, from your perspective,

41:44

is there something from Robo Corp or, or from the

41:46

community that you think is really, should

41:48

be on the reading list of everyone listening? It

41:51

shouldn't just be it should be something that specifically have

41:53

the responsibility to look into

41:55

those findings and being the single point of focal

41:58

point of contact into a company. in

42:00

some, I I don't know if it's going to be a function,

42:02

it probably should be a function going

42:04

further. But it needs to be some

42:06

expertise that do have the, a

42:09

tool to take decision, but also

42:11

concentrating and understanding the use of.

42:14

Automation or ai. I

42:16

think they could be mixed together. I

42:18

do not think, and that's not just because

42:20

I'm working with partners, but I do

42:22

think that it

42:24

might not be that companies will do

42:27

everything themselves. I think they,

42:29

in the same way as, as the tooling,

42:31

I think it will be more multi vendor way

42:34

of looking into these kind of softwares.

42:37

I think companies also will focus on

42:39

the. core business and do

42:41

use partners to help them, support

42:43

them, not just in the strategy, but

42:46

maybe work with

42:48

them also for the governance and the way

42:50

to, to implement it and run everything.

42:54

To invest in knowledge.

42:58

I think that is something that is wise to start doing

43:01

now and make those people have

43:03

time to do it as well. They don't have time. They have

43:06

so many things on their schedule

43:08

for that role. So it's not really taken,

43:11

I think they take it when it comes usually. I think it

43:13

should be more incorporated into the,

43:16

to the business, everyday

43:18

work and understanding of the full

43:20

strategy of the company. Absolutely.

43:23

And, it's been a true joy, Stina, listening

43:25

to your advice. I can't wait to see

43:27

what happens in your new journey, strategy.

43:30

partnerships are hugely important and being

43:32

generous with the knowledge that you learn is gonna be

43:34

exciting to catch up, later and see

43:36

the path you're on and what, where we take

43:38

in the next five years. Now it's time

43:40

to. So Wonderful work

43:42

is, produced by Work Fellow. We're a new software

43:45

company that saves smart people

43:47

from doll repetitive work through a solution

43:49

called Process Intelligence. Go

43:51

to work, fellow ai, when you're ready to tune up

43:53

your business processes and remember everyone,

43:55

stay wonderful.