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Thank you very much for your support. This

0:50

is Words Matter with Norm Ornstein. We've

0:58

got the votes and screw the rest

1:00

of you. And Dr. Kavita Patel. These

1:04

might be some of the smaller moments, you

1:06

know with all the bombshells. Didn't catch people's eyes. Hello

1:08

and welcome to Words Matter from the DSR Network. Each

1:10

week Norm Ornstein and I will talk about the issues

1:12

facing our country as we head into another incredible election

1:14

cycle. Although every day seems like there's something going on

1:16

Norm that is incredible. We're going to do kind of

1:19

a longer pod in the sense that we're

1:21

going to be talking about the issues that are

1:23

facing our country. We're going to be talking about

1:25

the issues that are facing our country. We're going

1:27

to be talking about the issues that are facing

1:29

our country. And

1:31

it's mostly because we're heading into the holiday season and

1:33

have wanted to leave room for our members to be

1:36

able to send us questions.

1:38

And anybody send us questions

1:40

during the Thanksgiving week where we're all going to hopefully take

1:42

a break and give thanks for everyone who has been a

1:44

part of this. And we're going to be talking about the

1:47

issues that are facing our country. And

1:50

we're going to be talking about the

1:52

issues that are facing our country. The

2:00

incredible Norm, I will give

2:02

thanks maybe at the end of this pod

2:05

and maybe we'll end with kind of what

2:07

we're thankful for because I think we're about

2:09

to get into some things that are pretty

2:12

unthankful or some pretty thankless people and that's

2:14

namely every single one of

2:16

our elected so-called leadership on the

2:18

Republican side and the House

2:20

of Representatives and so that's maybe what we'll

2:22

start off today. Norm, I

2:24

don't even have the ability to tell you

2:27

I have a rule with my children

2:29

that if they you know use it

2:31

in our household like a swear word is even the

2:33

word stupid we're trying not to let our kids say

2:35

it as much as sometimes I do and

2:37

so we have a little rule that if you

2:40

do that we take a toy away or we

2:42

take something very valuable away my son's soccer cards

2:44

that type of thing. If I

2:46

had to do that with the House of Representatives they

2:48

wouldn't have any toys that would that would have no

2:50

toys no toys. What

2:53

is going on how can you

2:55

describe to the listening public what has

2:57

transpired in the House which is laughable

3:00

and sad at best? So

3:03

you'll have to take away my toys but it's

3:05

a shit show. You

3:08

get it fast. Yeah you

3:11

know let me start with the

3:14

new speaker Mike Johnson who

3:18

barely more than a day after

3:20

Donald Trump said he wanted

3:22

to get rid of the vermin taken

3:26

right from the Hitler playbook. Right

3:29

after the New York Times published a

3:31

damning piece that Stephen

3:33

Miller and Steve Bannon who would

3:35

be running a second Trump

3:37

term talked about setting

3:39

up detention

3:42

camps meaning concentration camps

3:44

for literally millions of

3:46

people in America before

3:49

they would deport them throw

3:51

them out of the country. Mike

3:54

Johnson offered a full-throated

3:56

endorsement of Donald Trump

3:58

for president. So,

4:00

that tells you something about the nature of

4:02

our leadership, not to mention, of course, that

4:05

Mike Johnson, who made tons

4:07

of money as a lawyer,

4:09

apparently has multiple properties, said

4:14

that he has no assets and no

4:16

bank account. So, we

4:18

can start with that. Now,

4:20

we move from there to

4:22

another reality, Kavita, which is

4:24

that Johnson faced with

4:27

an untenable situation on the

4:29

verge of a shutdown that

4:31

would be blamed on him

4:33

and his House Republicans, managed

4:36

to pull off a second

4:38

continuing resolution by bringing

4:40

it up. And it was ironic

4:43

because it was this

4:46

laddered approach, two different deadlines for

4:48

the different appropriations bills that had

4:50

originally been proposed by the Freedom

4:53

Caucus, which they then opposed.

4:56

But he did what Kevin McCarthy had

4:58

done. He brought it up under suspension,

5:00

which means you need a two-thirds vote.

5:03

And they got twice as many Democrats

5:05

as Republicans to get it through. That

5:08

was followed by Kevin McCarthy walking

5:10

down the corridors in the Capitol,

5:13

passing Tim Burchitt of

5:16

Arkansas, who had been one

5:18

of the Republicans

5:20

who had voted to oust him

5:22

after he had done a continuing

5:24

resolution in this fashion. And

5:27

McCarthy gave him a shot to the

5:29

kidneys while Burchitt was being interviewed

5:31

by an NPR reporter. Undoubtedly,

5:35

McCarthy, looking at Mike

5:38

Johnson, getting away with what

5:41

destroyed his speakership, was

5:44

even more upset than he had

5:46

been before with the people

5:49

who had gotten him ousted.

5:52

But that same day, we

5:54

had Mark Wayne Mullen,

5:56

a senator from Oklahoma, who...

6:00

basically stood up on

6:02

the dais of a hearing with the

6:04

Teamster President and said,

6:07

let's get it on right here and now, following

6:10

some tweets that the

6:12

Teamster President had put out there. And

6:15

it took Bernie Sanders shouting,

6:17

you are a United States

6:19

Senator to keep this from

6:21

turning into a fistfight. So

6:25

we've got possibilities

6:27

and incidents of violence on

6:29

the Hill. And

6:32

I just keep coming back to Daniel

6:37

Patrick Moynihan's defining deviancy

6:39

down. Things that would

6:41

have been no-nos in the past and

6:43

we had instances of either

6:45

fights or near fights. But

6:47

they were brought together with

6:50

shame, rained

6:52

down on those who perpetrated

6:54

them by their colleagues. Now

6:56

it's matter of fact. And

6:59

then today, of course, we have George

7:01

Santos with a damning report by the

7:03

House Ethics Committee, which despite

7:06

saying that he committed

7:08

all kinds of offenses and violated laws

7:12

doesn't yet recommend that he be

7:14

expelled. So

7:17

what can be positive about what's

7:20

going on in Congress? I mentioned

7:22

one other thing that isn't just

7:24

about Republicans, Kavita, which is that

7:26

the Senate after passing the continuing

7:29

resolution took off with something

7:31

like 19 judgeships

7:34

still pending. They're

7:36

slowing down the pace even as they ought

7:38

to be speeding it up of

7:41

judges. And that's

7:43

on Chuck Schumer and the Democrats. So

7:45

it's not like we've

7:47

got a lot of people here who are painting

7:52

themselves with glory. So

7:56

to touch on that point, a minute on

7:58

the Senate and Chuck Schumer. I

8:01

had actually brought this up with some former

8:03

judiciary committee staff, so no longer

8:06

on the hill, but kind of recent, kind of,

8:08

you know, former kind of Feinstein people. And

8:11

they have all said that this

8:14

is a point of contention with the White House. Who

8:16

knows what the kind of underlying issues are?

8:18

Because I said, look, I

8:21

mean, tell me what I'm missing. This isn't strategic

8:23

that you're not moving these names through. So what

8:25

is it? And I was a little puzzled by that.

8:28

Norm, can you explain perhaps why Schumer,

8:31

who is one of the most savvy

8:33

politicians I know, why he'd

8:35

be slow walking these judicial nominees? Or is it, obviously,

8:37

they don't think they have the votes, sure. But

8:41

why wouldn't he be forcing this

8:44

issue? You know, I don't have

8:46

inside knowledge. If there's anything

8:48

more going on than what I think is going on. But

8:50

here's what I think is going on. We

8:53

have 24 Democratic

8:55

seats up in the Senate in

8:58

next year. And

9:01

we have a lengthy recess

9:03

now. I think

9:05

Schumer, whose leadership has

9:07

been characterized by bending

9:09

over backwards to accommodate his colleagues, that's

9:12

how he got in there in the

9:14

first place. I think

9:16

it's just, OK, you go

9:18

home and campaign or you

9:20

go home and do whatever else you want

9:22

to do during the recess and we'll deal

9:25

with it later. It's

9:27

treating this as business as usual. And

9:30

we are at an urgent

9:32

point. You know, I

9:35

have rarely been as unsettled as

9:38

I am now. Donald

9:42

Trump is now

9:45

being even more explicit

9:47

about bringing fascism to

9:49

the American population

9:52

and country if he gets reelected. Univision,

9:56

which we can soon be calling

9:58

FasciaVision, has... decided

10:00

to turn from being unhappy

10:02

with Trump, and it should

10:04

be given his attitude

10:07

towards immigration and towards Hispanics,

10:10

and the desire we now know to bring

10:12

back child separation at the border. But

10:15

they've gone full Trumpian now. And

10:18

so we've got a real threat here. And

10:20

it's a threat, given the election,

10:23

where judges can maybe

10:25

the only bulwark we

10:27

have against full-blown

10:29

fascism. You got

10:31

to get those judges in. And it ought

10:34

to be a matter of enormous urgency, and

10:36

that it's not, I don't take any excuses,

10:39

it is shameful. So how,

10:41

and then let's go back to the House for a second,

10:43

because that I for a little while.

10:46

So this has been, I

10:48

have heard colleagues describe

10:51

what's unfolding in the House, you know,

10:53

kind of gameness, right? I don't watch these shows,

10:55

but it means something probably to a lot of

10:57

people. Game of Thrones meets succession. I'm

11:00

not sure, I think those are, you know,

11:02

just basically, and I would probably say to

11:04

me, it seems like Lord of the Flies,

11:06

because that's what comes to mind from my

11:08

reading. And I'm not sure who Piggy is

11:10

in this scenario, but I certainly can't see

11:13

it. This is, so

11:15

let's talk about something you and I have

11:17

often spoken about the fact that

11:20

they did, that we

11:22

still have a government that's running, that they

11:25

were able to actually kind of pass a

11:28

resolution to like avoid like the

11:30

government shutdown that I'll be candid. I

11:32

thought November 17th, here we go, we're going

11:34

to have a shutdown. So, but

11:37

there's a big but to it. And

11:39

it comes in terms of what, how

11:41

that shutdown was averted. And

11:45

I think that speaks to, first of all, I

11:47

had never heard in the days leading up to

11:49

this resolution. I have never heard of like a

11:51

laddered, you know, I had

11:54

never heard of it. In fact, there were many of us who

11:57

actually had to send around like a text

11:59

channel. of what exactly

12:01

is this and none of us have

12:03

ever heard of it. Explain, Norm, for

12:05

listeners, kind of what this laddered CR

12:08

and kind of what that was and

12:10

then where we are at with the

12:13

shutdown and why if you tell me

12:15

if you share my deep, deep, deep

12:17

concerns that this is not that

12:20

it's not a good sign. I think the headlines might

12:22

take away, you know, government averted a shutdown

12:24

as if government is working. I think

12:27

this is very dangerous in the manner

12:29

that it with which it was done, with which

12:31

it was done, and then also what it

12:33

could mean as a precedent

12:35

going forward. So

12:38

laddered means that instead of having

12:40

a continuing resolution for all of

12:42

the spending bills that

12:45

goes for, as they have usually done,

12:47

45 days, they have some of

12:50

these bills expiring in

12:52

January and others in February

12:55

and it's an attempt to,

12:57

and you know, most of the people

12:59

who've been involved with budgets and appropriations

13:03

and fiscal matters say that

13:05

this is loony, but

13:08

it's an attempt by conservatives

13:10

to try and separate out defense

13:14

from which they want, from

13:16

a lot of other

13:18

domestic appropriations bills including

13:21

Health and Human Services and others.

13:25

What we know from

13:27

this, and it is a foolish

13:29

thing to do if you're looking at

13:31

keeping the government running, we

13:33

know first that Mike

13:36

Johnson got a pass on this

13:38

from his more radical colleagues because

13:41

he's new to the job, but

13:43

as some of them said, it's

13:45

strike one. So

13:49

in January and in February,

13:51

the pressure on Johnson

13:54

to use this to try

13:57

and gain radical spending

13:59

cuts in the areas

14:01

that Republicans don't like, which

14:03

is almost every area of

14:05

discretionary spending, except

14:08

for the border, is

14:10

going to be enormous. And that means

14:14

I will be—I was like you expecting

14:16

that we would get this shutdown in

14:20

this coming week. I

14:25

will be gobsmacked if we don't

14:28

have a shutdown before the fiscal

14:30

year ends, which is

14:32

next October 1. I'm

14:35

expecting at least partial shutdowns along

14:38

the way. Now

14:40

there's one caveat here that's

14:44

important to mention. Republicans

14:47

are already down one member

14:50

because you had an early

14:53

departure, a resignation, from

14:55

a seat in Utah, and

14:57

it's going to take a while for a special election

15:00

to fill it. The pressure

15:02

on George Santos to leave

15:06

on the House to expel him, especially

15:09

if this trial moves forward, could

15:11

reduce their margin to two. So

15:15

they're going to be skating on

15:17

thin ice anyhow. The

15:19

pressure on Mike Johnson to defer

15:21

once again to his more radical

15:23

colleagues, though, is going to

15:25

be even greater. And I

15:27

expect a lot of chaos ahead

15:29

when Congress comes back after

15:32

Thanksgiving, before Christmas, and

15:34

then certainly when they return

15:37

in early January. We

15:39

have a thoroughly dysfunctional House.

15:42

The tensions inside the

15:44

Republican Conference, it's not

15:46

just Kevin McCarthy and Burchard

15:49

and Matt Gaetz. It's

15:51

also Marjorie Taylor Greene

15:53

ready to go after Lauren Boebert.

15:57

They're looking like the idiots that they

15:59

are. And we have

16:01

a speaker who has all kinds

16:04

of question marks surrounding him. It's

16:06

not just his radical Christian

16:08

nationalism, but a potential ethics

16:12

catastrophe If

16:14

they have to go back and and find a

16:17

different speaker, it's going to be that much worse

16:20

They're looking like idiots and

16:22

they're looking that way because they are I Think

16:26

that the problem and

16:28

then this gets to the like

16:30

meta conversation about you know What's

16:32

happening around like dinner tables at

16:35

home? And and what are people

16:37

talking about on the weekends when they look

16:39

at this the majority of the public this I'm

16:41

being brutally honest the majority of the public is

16:44

Even though they kind of maybe but nobody

16:47

knows who Mike Johnson is but few

16:49

people probably even knew who Kevin McCarthy

16:51

was like exactly My

16:53

concern here at norm is that

16:55

this chaos is And

16:58

it might be the geopolitical time we're in right

17:00

we're in just incredible

17:03

dire crises in in Israel

17:06

Incredible dire crises like you

17:08

know Ukraine I mean this is just and

17:10

then not to mention what is happening in

17:12

other parts of the world that we don't

17:15

have time to even talk about But

17:17

there's just this overlay if you will and

17:19

tell me Your thoughts

17:22

and reactions I am concerned that Despite

17:25

all this chaos and childishness and everybody

17:27

losing their toys that the general public

17:29

at the end of the day norm

17:31

They care about do I feel like

17:33

I'm more secure in terms of physical

17:36

security financial security than I was X months

17:38

ago I don't know if they would answer

17:40

the question Yes, or no, or

17:42

if they answer the question are you more

17:44

financially secure than you were several months ago?

17:46

And they say no, they're gonna blame not

17:49

Mike Johnson not Marjorie Taylor Greene not all

17:51

these kind of you know the

17:53

idiots of The

17:55

idiots of Washington they're gonna probably blame

17:58

one person and that's Joe Biden and that that

18:00

brought to the fore to me, not sure

18:03

if you caught I think it was today's New York

18:05

Times I thought electronically so I'm not sure if it

18:07

was in print about the it was today it was

18:09

Nate Cohen and Claire Miller on the Kamala

18:12

but no you know not Joe voters which

18:14

is interesting and this is building off of

18:16

this recent I take polls

18:18

with a grain of salt especially a year out of

18:20

an election but this comes

18:22

after you know a

18:25

poll that showed a hypothetical match up

18:27

where Kamala Harris performed slightly

18:29

better than Joe Biden in

18:32

some key states and especially

18:34

amongst kind of younger you know non-white

18:36

voters who tend to be less

18:38

engaged right so so just tell me

18:41

if I have a little bit

18:43

of that diagnosis

18:45

correct and and if

18:48

so what what

18:50

does this mean between now and November

18:52

2024 in terms

18:55

of the Senate seats in terms of

18:57

Biden and and how can what I

18:59

worry about also is that while this

19:01

childishness has happened I would

19:03

love to see leadership as a contrast I

19:05

would like to say I think Biden is

19:07

doing that but to your point

19:09

about why you're seeing Schumer demuring

19:12

off of judicial candidates which he shouldn't

19:14

but I your explanation it

19:16

brings true you don't see

19:18

this I know this

19:21

sounds crazy but if you and I had the bully

19:23

pulpit that most of these Democratic leaders have norm

19:25

every single day every cabinet

19:27

member every leader

19:30

in the Senate and the House you

19:32

know Patty Murray to this person to Bronn

19:34

Wyden to that person they should

19:36

be Michael Bennett right Sheldon White House

19:39

all of them they should be

19:41

creating the kind of counter narrative or

19:43

defining the narrative so that when Americans

19:45

ask you know an answer do you

19:47

feel better than you did a year

19:50

ago two years ago four years ago

19:52

that they can say yes and I

19:54

don't see it no

19:57

I'm afraid you're an

20:00

analysis is spot-on. The

20:02

first point is a key one. If

20:05

there's dysfunction in Washington, voters

20:08

are not going to parse this out and

20:11

say, you know, it's the fault of the

20:13

House Republicans. It's the fault of the Republican

20:15

Party. The person

20:17

at the top, the president, suffers.

20:20

That's a reality. People think it's

20:23

not working. They want

20:25

to know why the president hasn't fixed it. That's

20:28

certainly a part of it. I

20:30

worry very much about the Middle East. What

20:35

we know as of now is

20:37

that the Arab

20:39

American population, heavy

20:42

concentration in Michigan, is

20:46

upset, would be a

20:48

modest word to use, with

20:51

Joe Biden for his full-throated support

20:53

of Israel. And that

20:56

puts Michigan potentially in jeopardy. We

20:58

also know that it's had an

21:00

impact on a lot of younger

21:02

Democratic voters who have been

21:04

caught up with the idea

21:07

of Israel as

21:10

the colonial power, oppressing

21:12

Palestinians. And

21:14

they may not vote for Biden. Now, I

21:16

don't think the Arab American population

21:18

is going to end up voting a

21:21

mass for Donald Trump, the guy who said that

21:23

the first thing he'll do is bring back the

21:26

Muslim ban. But

21:29

there will be other options out there.

21:31

And that includes no labels. We can

21:33

talk for a minute about the Senate.

21:36

But, you know, the headlines

21:38

that Joe Manchin's retirement is a

21:40

blow to the Democrats holding the

21:42

Senate is not accurate. Joe

21:45

Manchin is retiring in significant part because he

21:48

was going to lose that Senate seat. The

21:51

governor, Jim Justice, has a wide lead

21:53

over him. But I

21:55

think he is seriously considering

21:57

running on a no-label ticket,

22:00

no labels as a pernicious operation.

22:03

I'm still pretty confident despite all of

22:05

the body blows that we have seen,

22:08

despite these polls, which are right, should

22:10

not be taken seriously a year before

22:12

the election. But I'm confident

22:14

that if it's a one-on-one matchup with

22:17

a probably convicted criminal,

22:20

Donald Trump, again,

22:22

Joe Biden wins. But

22:25

with Jill Stein now jumping

22:27

back into it, with the

22:29

Libertarian Party seriously considering giving

22:32

its endorsement to Robert

22:34

Kennedy Jr., with

22:36

Cornel West out there, and

22:39

with no labels that will be

22:41

funded by Republican billionaires with

22:44

a lot of money, we've

22:46

got to be worried about the future of the country.

22:49

It could elect Donald Trump by

22:52

drawing votes in the critical states away

22:54

from Joe Biden, or

22:57

by very possibly winning a state

22:59

or two on a no-label ticket,

23:01

not any possibility of winning, and

23:05

throwing the election to the House,

23:07

where even though I think it

23:09

is now very likely that Democrats

23:11

recapture the majority because of the

23:14

embarrassments that House Republicans have inflicted

23:16

upon themselves and the country. They

23:20

vote by state if it's

23:23

not decided with 270 electoral

23:25

votes in November, and

23:28

Republicans are still likely to have a majority of

23:30

the states. So there's

23:32

a lot of reason

23:35

for Biden to be,

23:37

and for the people around Biden, and

23:39

for Democrats and for anybody who cares

23:41

about making sure we don't end

23:43

up with a fascist country. And

23:47

the weaknesses that are there, it's

23:50

a long ways away. I

23:52

think the president, obviously

23:55

now with the Middle

23:57

East, with Ukraine, with the United

24:00

potential conflicts with China,

24:03

can't go back to talking

24:06

about some of the issues that are

24:08

important in the campaign right now, but

24:10

he will have to. I think

24:12

he has to make democracy itself

24:14

a major focal point and

24:17

to bring those young voters back and

24:19

possibly to create some excitement

24:21

with people of color. I

24:24

still think the Dobbs issue and the fact

24:26

that Republicans around the country are getting

24:30

more and more radical in the way

24:32

they're dealing with women's reproductive health

24:35

and rights, that that's

24:37

still going to be a big motivator by

24:40

next year. Yeah,

24:43

so let's talk about that. I

24:45

couldn't agree with you more and I have

24:47

become, for reasons I can't personally

24:49

understand, is I have become a little

24:52

more optimistic about Biden v. Trump,

24:55

Biden winning, but then

24:57

I've left myself with the question of

25:00

like, Norm, what does winning look like?

25:02

Because I'm, what's the

25:04

right way to say this? Winning to me, I don't

25:09

know, what are we winning? And are

25:11

we winning only just like biting

25:14

a little more time to kick

25:16

the can down the curve that if Trump isn't

25:18

in jail, that we've only created some other kind

25:21

of super monster that comes and runs

25:23

in 28. I just

25:26

feel like this is, it feels

25:29

like, you know, if you follow any sort

25:32

of sports and you have a

25:34

team that's kind of constantly on the bubble and

25:36

then they just eke it through, just kind of

25:38

eke by, but they never get the stretch advantage,

25:41

is that you're constantly then looking over

25:43

your shoulder and that's what it feels like every

25:46

single day. And so, and I won't lie

25:48

to you every time Biden takes the podium,

25:50

even I, I'm a doctor, board certified, lots

25:52

of education, even I myself kind of sit

25:54

and think, oh my God, is today the

25:56

day, is today the day that he like

25:59

dropped the dead? this today? I don't

26:01

know. And it's the same reason. I'm just

26:03

going to be honest. It's the same reason

26:05

I have my phone by my bed with

26:07

the ringer on and I never have the

26:10

iPhone has that automatic kind of do not

26:12

disturb and sleep function. I never have it

26:14

on because my parents or I could get

26:17

a call and it's someone in an emergency

26:19

room and my family. I have

26:21

that same feeling about Joe Biden and

26:23

I don't think I'm wrong. I don't

26:26

think I'm that different than every American

26:28

wants him to win. And

26:30

so that is not a

26:32

good conversation to go into

26:34

an election even if it's

26:36

a second term. So then how

26:39

do we where and

26:41

how then do we make room

26:43

and space for new leadership?

26:45

Let's shift to talking and then we'll

26:48

close with you and I giving thanks for

26:50

something because I know we do. How do we so

26:53

so here's a great conversation. I do

26:55

not hear enough on pods or on

26:57

MSNBC or or you know, I

26:59

know I'm watching listen to you

27:01

know what you and and whatever

27:04

whatever you and Mary Trump call the pod squad

27:06

or I'm forgetting what they're called. Nerd

27:09

Avengers. Nerd Avengers. Thank you. I like that

27:11

better than pod squad. I made that up. Do

27:14

you do you have what

27:18

is the optimism or or what is the

27:20

sense of like new leadership and kind of

27:22

energy in the Democratic Party and Republican party

27:24

for that matter for kind

27:26

of that next cultivating that next

27:28

generation. Have you seen spurts of it?

27:31

I know we've seen some really you and I've talked

27:33

about Wes Moore. We've

27:35

talked about some we talked about Glenn Youngkin. I

27:37

think he's done his own flush his career

27:39

down the toilet recently. I'm thankful

27:43

for that. I'm thankful for I am

27:45

but you and I have spoken our

27:47

our democracy only works when we have two

27:49

strong parties and and I don't mean strong

27:52

power. I mean yeah wrong

27:54

conversation problem solving solving and conviction.

27:57

We don't have it on either

27:59

side. We need both sides for this

28:01

democracy to work, but at this point I'll take

28:03

anything. Where is

28:05

the room and the energy

28:07

for the new leadership creation?

28:10

I don't see it. Yeah,

28:12

there's a lot to unpack there. Let

28:14

me reflect on a couple of things.

28:17

First, I don't see any

28:19

possibility that we have a new

28:21

era of great governance over the

28:23

next several years. The

28:26

best we could probably hope for,

28:28

realistically, is that Joe Biden ekes

28:30

out a victory in 2024. Democrats

28:35

recapture the House, but

28:37

the odds are very high that they lose the

28:39

Senate. The Republican

28:41

Party in the Senate is

28:43

going to make his life miserable, and

28:45

that means making governing and trying

28:48

to grapple with the big issues and

28:50

problems that we have that

28:52

much more difficult. Now,

28:56

I think the Republican Party is,

28:59

unless they suffer a stunning

29:01

defeat across the board in

29:04

2024, losing to the

29:06

Senate instead of picking up the majority

29:08

as they expect, lose the

29:10

House resoundingly, lose in state

29:13

legislatures, lose the presidency, jolting

29:16

them back to some sense that what they've

29:18

been doing is wrong. When

29:20

I look at the next generation

29:22

of Republicans coming forward to serve

29:25

in Washington, the

29:27

state legislatures, the city

29:30

councils, now increasingly the school boards,

29:33

they're more radical than the Freedom Caucus. So

29:36

we're a ways away, probably

29:38

a long ways away from having a

29:41

functional Republican Party operating not

29:44

as a radical right party,

29:46

but as a conservative, responsible,

29:49

problem-solving party that we

29:51

used to have, we're not there. For

29:54

Democrats, I

29:56

share your concerns about Biden. Everything

29:58

that I know, from my

30:00

own personal interactions

30:03

with him, which have

30:05

been limited, but they've been real. And

30:08

with everybody I know and trust who

30:10

spends a lot of time with him

30:13

is that his mental acuity is there,

30:16

that he, you know, the verbal stumbles and

30:18

all of that are no different

30:20

or very little different from what they've been

30:23

for decades. That's right. But

30:25

the fact is he looks old. Yeah,

30:27

no, it is absolutely right. It's his

30:29

frailty. He's just frailed,

30:31

period. Physically, I mean, you know,

30:35

he's out there riding his bike. He's

30:37

working out. He's not showing

30:40

the signs of obesity that Trump

30:42

is. Ironically, Trump's mental

30:44

acuity has been dropping like a

30:47

rock while Biden says not, but

30:49

it's hit Biden. The

30:53

idea that we see that's so widespread

30:55

that he should have just dropped out

30:57

and not run so that the new

31:00

generation can come forward. We've

31:03

discussed this before, but I

31:05

also believe that if Biden had

31:07

decided not to run, we

31:10

would have had a circus, lots

31:13

of people running for a Democratic nomination

31:16

and extended and probably in

31:18

the end, pretty bitter contest

31:21

and very likely, despite some

31:24

of these signs of renewed strength, the

31:27

heir apparent, the first

31:29

woman of color to be

31:31

in an administration would

31:34

not win. And that would be

31:36

very difficult for maintaining

31:38

the enthusiasm of the Democratic

31:40

coalition. The reality

31:42

is that there are a lot

31:45

of attractive young Democrats out there.

31:49

We have governors like Gretchen

31:51

Whitmer and Westmore. We

31:54

have senators, a lot

31:56

of them, some

31:58

of whom have run before. like

32:01

Cory Booker, but a

32:03

number of other young ones. Raphael

32:06

Warnock is just a terrific

32:09

guy. We have house

32:11

members like Jamie Raskin, all

32:14

of whom are extraordinarily impressive. We're

32:16

gonna get some others probably

32:19

in the next batch coming in, but

32:23

that's gonna have to wait for a while before

32:25

they assume these major leadership

32:27

roles. And we have

32:29

already seen just this wonderful, smooth succession

32:31

in the house. Keem Jeffries

32:34

is one of the most impressive young

32:36

politicians I've seen in a

32:38

very long time. He's good. He

32:40

gets young people excited. He

32:42

is. He is, no, he's good.

32:47

Republican Party is a catastrophe. I mean,

32:50

who are their, where's

32:53

the young talent? Elise

32:55

Stefanik? Oh, God. But

32:57

that's my point. Yeah, that's

32:59

the point. I mean, we've

33:01

got some tough times ahead no matter

33:04

what. And we have to

33:06

watch both Ukraine, but

33:09

especially the Middle East now, if we

33:11

do not end up with a reasonable

33:13

outcome here, at least

33:15

the possibility that we could segue from

33:18

this horrible human

33:20

catastrophe towards some

33:22

renewed momentum for a two-state

33:24

solution, then

33:28

it's gonna be bad for the world, but

33:30

it's also gonna be bad for Joe Biden and

33:34

for the future of the United States. So

33:37

there's an awful lot going on out there that

33:39

we have to be nervous about. Well,

33:43

on that note, we're gonna,

33:45

that's, I was just gonna say, we were

33:47

gonna try to end on a thankful note.

33:51

But our, yes, there we go. What I'll say is that

33:53

we'll do this. We'll

33:55

make, we'll spend the next

33:57

week giving thanks and getting... listener

34:00

and listener kind of questions, comments, and

34:02

maybe when we come back we'll do

34:04

kind of a week after next to

34:06

a wrap with like a nice holiday

34:09

kind of themed kind

34:12

of kickoff, whatever holidays you might celebrate, and we'll

34:14

try to start. We finish

34:16

Diwali, be getting into Kwanzaa and to

34:18

Hanukkah and to Christmas and heading into

34:21

a nice holiday season. We'll come back

34:23

to, we're always very thankful

34:25

to our Words Matter listeners, both members,

34:27

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34:29

please become a member. And the conversation

34:31

we just had is one of the

34:33

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34:35

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34:49

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34:54

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34:56

next podcast should be in your pod in

34:58

a couple weeks. See you soon.

35:25

you