0:00

Hi, everyone, Sophia Bush

0:02

here. Welcome to work in progress,

0:05

where I talk to people who inspire me

0:07

about how they got to where they are and

0:09

where they think they're still going. I

0:22

am so excited to welcome all of you

0:25

to a conversation with an incredible

0:28

business and environmental pioneer,

0:30

Tata Harper. She is

0:33

a role breaker in natural

0:35

luxury skincare. And while I

0:37

know that some of you may be thinking, Oh,

0:40

it's natural, so it means it's technically better

0:42

for me, but it won't actually do anything. Nope,

0:45

I'm here to promise you that this

0:47

is actually what sets Tata's products

0:49

apart from all the other quote

0:52

unquote natural ones. I'm

0:55

so fascinated with her because her story

0:57

is incredible. She did something

0:59

that I think so many of us dream about.

1:02

She identified something

1:04

that she wanted, something she was looking for, but

1:06

couldn't find a healthy beauty

1:08

care solution that did not include any toxic

1:10

ingredients. So she set out to

1:12

develop something all by herself. She

1:15

learned the chemistry involved in making

1:18

beauty care products, and by combining

1:20

scientific testing with one

1:23

natural ingredients, she ultimately

1:25

created a line of products that includes

1:27

cleansers, serums, moisturizer's face

1:30

soils, cosmetics and more that

1:32

are more effective than big

1:34

brand name products. Now,

1:37

I know this sounds like an advertisement,

1:39

but I promise I'm not getting

1:41

paid to talk about her products. I just

1:43

am truly such a fan of

1:46

a woman who made a

1:48

determination as a

1:50

citizen, a businesswoman, and

1:52

a founder and said, yeah, chemistry,

1:55

I can figure that out. I mean, come on, she's a rock

1:57

star. Tata is also

2:00

two time a Lure Best of Beauty winner

2:02

in OH

2:04

Magazine Fall Beauty OH Award winner

2:06

in was on the Nylon

2:08

Beauty Hit List and the glam Top One Beauty

2:11

List, and the list

2:13

goes on. She's been featured in Forbes,

2:16

BuzzFeed, Vogue, Women's Health, GQ, Goop

2:18

Health, and more and more and more.

2:21

She's just truly incredible. We

2:24

sat down to talk about her childhood in Columbia,

2:26

how she became interested in the beauty industry,

2:29

the very surprising things she found that exists

2:31

in the products we use on our skin

2:33

every day, hint a

2:35

lot of it should be in cars, not on our bodies,

2:38

and so many more of the fascinating

2:40

discoveries she made along the way.

2:44

I can't wait for her to inspire all

2:46

of you as much as she has inspired

2:48

me to be the solution to

2:50

the problems I find in the world around me.

2:53

I hope she does the same for you. Enjoy.

2:59

I'm so excited to have you on today.

3:02

I'm such a long time fan of yours

3:04

and what you do and

3:06

the way that you are encouraging

3:08

these conversations about wellness

3:12

and skin and

3:14

and really I think educating

3:16

people on why that's important. And so

3:20

I'm very excited to be able to do that today

3:23

with you. Awesome, this is my tenure

3:25

and the here oh happy anniversary,

3:28

but it's our tent here, so it's pretty

3:31

uh. I mean, we had so many plans

3:33

for a ten year anniversary, but

3:37

but it's yeah, it's been ten

3:40

years and then before that five

3:42

years just building the

3:44

you know, just starting out just because everything

3:47

was so hard and it took so long.

3:49

When you're trying to do something different

3:51

and new and not just like disruptive

3:55

marketing, but like the product is

3:57

disruptive and totally different,

4:00

it just takes a long long time

4:02

because you know, you you can't

4:05

rely on a lot of experts

4:07

because they can tell you the things that they were, how

4:09

they've been done now right, they're experts

4:11

in the way the practices of today.

4:14

But if a lot of those bags practices

4:16

don't apply to what you want to do, there's

4:18

tons of conflict and tons

4:21

of challenges. So it's

4:24

really long time to figure

4:27

all that out and be like, oh, how do I say

4:29

true to my vision and to keep things

4:32

the way that I am envisioned. It must

4:34

be such an interesting time

4:37

to be able to look back, because

4:40

I feel I get a ten year sort of milestone.

4:43

It's it's an exciting moment

4:45

to take stock of how far you've come.

4:48

And I imagine, despite

4:51

the disruption of the current climate and

4:53

what's happening in the world, that you

4:55

get to look at what you've built

4:58

in a way

5:00

that must be special. Yeah, it definitely

5:02

gives you a lot of perspective because sometimes

5:05

when you're like in the day today, you're

5:07

just thinking, you know, ahead, back

5:09

ahead, but you never really get a chance

5:12

to really be like, oh,

5:14

this is how much we've accomplished, you know, like

5:16

I never really have like those moments

5:18

that you just like look in hindsight,

5:20

like oh, okay, I had no

5:23

idea about the beauty and I have no

5:25

idea like I'm not a chemist. I just really

5:27

was someone that wanted to make this

5:29

happen so that people had alternatives.

5:32

And I just basically use a lot of my skills

5:35

to create that and put people together

5:37

to help me. But as you're doing it,

5:39

you rarely pause and just really like

5:42

think back and be like, oh,

5:44

you know, like wow, we've gone

5:46

so far. Yeah,

5:49

because you're always looking forward, always

5:52

looking forward, and you're never slowing down,

5:54

and honestly, like you don't have a lot of time to think.

5:57

You're just like thinking and processing. Like a

5:59

lot of that happens maybe when you're showering

6:01

or when you're taking a bath, or when you're running

6:04

you're like, wait, what did she say again?

6:07

I don't know, but you know, um,

6:11

but yeah, when I started the business, I

6:13

had like no business plan. I had

6:15

no idea like how big how small

6:17

the company was gonna be. I was just like, I

6:20

can't be the only woman that it's looking for

6:22

this, Like you know that, I don't want to that

6:25

want real science because that's the only

6:27

reason why you buy skincare. And

6:30

yes, you need algaes and you need your kids,

6:32

and you need a lot of amazing things, but you don't

6:34

need them mixed with a

6:36

lot of like heavy duty industrial chemicals

6:39

that really have no business in your

6:41

I cream, you know, like you ner I cream,

6:43

you don't need so much petroleum,

6:45

you don't need so much like proberly

6:47

glycoal. It's like anti freeze, Like why

6:49

is that in my I cream? Why is that in the serum that

6:52

I'm using every day? Like you

6:54

know, you started questioning just a

6:56

lot of like what you want to use and

7:00

ah, and it's just really for me a matter

7:02

of quality more than anything. You know.

7:04

It's like, it is that the quality of raw materials that

7:06

I want to be true for my skin to

7:08

make it more beautiful, to make it more healthy,

7:10

to make it more glowy. And

7:13

the maybe that's like my engineering

7:16

side. I don't know. I was like, I can't believe

7:18

that all of these materials are like what's

7:21

in then they could, you know, could a

7:24

lot of consumer products, And a

7:26

lot of people are not expecting that even

7:29

though they're not they can't really

7:31

know what properly glycal is. They

7:34

don't they never imagine that

7:36

that's anti freeze, Like why would you

7:38

write, well, you would just never expect anti

7:41

freeze to be allowed

7:44

in a product that would go on your body.

7:47

That That's part of what fascinates me about

7:49

all of this is I think it's

7:51

so easy for us to assume that someone

7:54

is making sure some regulatory

7:56

bodies somewhere is making sure that talks

8:00

chemicals aren't allowed into skincare

8:02

or food, or you know,

8:04

the list goes on and on and on, and yet

8:07

toxic chemicals are in all

8:10

of the things that we put in and

8:13

on our bodies. So unfortunately

8:15

it's on us as a consumer,

8:19

as consumers, to look

8:22

out for those things. And I'm so

8:24

curious about how that journey began, like my

8:26

journey. Yeah, I'm very curious about

8:28

how the journey began for you. But before we get

8:30

into the last ten years

8:32

and skincare, I do always

8:35

love to go a bit further back with

8:37

my guests. You know, you mentioned your engineering

8:40

background, and you mentioned that you're from Colombia.

8:43

I I would love

8:45

to know where your story begins.

8:47

So what you were curious about as a kid,

8:49

what your childhood was like in Colombia, you

8:52

know, what what was happening

8:54

in your life when you were maybe eight or ten

8:57

years old. So basically

8:59

I grew up in the coast

9:01

of Columbia in a town called Barranquilla.

9:04

It's like a like a New Orleans

9:06

sort of place, industrial but

9:09

also um, you

9:11

know, it's in the beach, so it's like the

9:14

of like Latin culture. Like people are

9:16

like happy and everybody

9:19

dances all the time. There's always music,

9:21

there's parties, and the town is relatively

9:24

small and it's very um

9:26

segregated, like it's very tribal

9:29

like l a actually,

9:31

and Uh, I grew up

9:34

in a family where my parents

9:36

were divorced, and my mom was a

9:38

working mother and she was

9:41

like one of the first women to go to Colombia.

9:44

She also, um was

9:46

one of the first people in the family to get divorced,

9:49

which was extremely shocking for

9:51

everybody. Uh. She started

9:53

her own company. She remarried, so

9:56

I grew up you know with already like

9:58

a working mother and uh,

10:00

and I was very close to her

10:03

family, Like I grew up like extremely

10:05

close. She has like a really large family

10:07

and we were all close for a total of like

10:09

thirty two cousins and

10:11

uh, and my grandparents center

10:14

of like our life. And

10:16

the women in my family were extremely

10:19

um focused on beauty,

10:21

Like beauty was not seeing as a tour

10:23

or an obligation, but something that everybody

10:26

enjoys doing. It was very social,

10:28

and I was always fascinating everything

10:31

that they were doing around their masks, their

10:33

hair, their creams, like

10:36

all the all the stuff that they that they

10:38

were all constantly doing. And

10:40

my grandmother loved to host like a spot

10:42

party in her house every

10:44

compost every weekend with for a lot of my

10:47

aunts and my cousins of

10:49

her favorite granddaughter. So I would wake up

10:51

with her like really early and we would make all sorts

10:54

of like concoctions and

10:56

and stuff for when the guest arrives.

11:01

And uh, I grew up, you

11:04

know it also like I went to an American school

11:07

in Colombia, so like

11:09

I was very close to the American culture

11:12

too through my school and

11:14

uh and it was you know, like a very

11:17

idea like sort of like childhood.

11:19

You know, it's very It was very nice, very

11:21

protective, very happy,

11:24

and a very close community. I

11:26

traveled about and I lived in Paris, I

11:28

lived in Canada, I lived in Mexico. I

11:32

studied industrial engineering, which has nothing

11:34

to do with what I was doing now, and then I

11:37

fell in love with my ex husband and I moved

11:39

to Miami, and I lived in Miami for

11:41

like seven years. I was like my first spot

11:43

here in the US, and I was we

11:45

were pretty much developed doing real estate

11:48

development, Like we were building buildings

11:50

in downtown Miami. He's

11:52

from New York, so he wanted to like bring the

11:55

lap concept to Miami, and for

11:57

the first time, I started building around the downtown,

12:00

which was like complete urban

12:02

pioneering. Performing Arts Center was

12:04

just really beginning, and then there was Craig rob

12:06

Instruents, like the Design District, and

12:08

we were like in between the Performing Arts Center,

12:11

like that whole Midtown area. And

12:13

then while I was doing that, my stepfather gets

12:15

diagnosed with cancer, and

12:17

uh, because I was living in Miami

12:20

and he got treated in the US, I

12:22

ended up just going with him

12:24

to a lot of doctors and a lot of clinics

12:27

and a lot of these

12:29

places that that treated him.

12:31

And that's when I started learning about the toxic

12:34

load, the ingredients, how much lifestyle

12:37

plays into your health and your well being.

12:39

Like before, I thought

12:41

that a lot of like going organic, going natural,

12:43

doing all of that was more for the environment,

12:46

which I am a huge environmentalist and I love

12:48

the environment, but I never thought that I had to like

12:50

change my moisturizer, you

12:52

know. And then all of a sudden and

12:56

there and they're talking about all these things, and I'm

12:58

like, WHOA, I want to implement

13:00

those things for myself to like I don't

13:02

want to be surrounded by all these

13:04

chemicals that I didn't realize

13:07

that there was really no one looking after a

13:10

lot of the consumer products or even like supplements

13:13

out there, and like what's allowed and what's

13:15

not allowed, and I just went

13:17

into this rabbit hole. It got

13:19

to the point where, you

13:21

know, I wanted to switch to naturals,

13:23

like I had changed a lot of things, but I couldn't.

13:26

I didn't change my like Swiss

13:28

skincare line um

13:31

and I left at as like the Final Frontier.

13:33

And then I found things that, well they were

13:36

natural, but they were super simple,

13:38

you know. And I'm not like a

13:41

simple skincare customer necessarily,

13:43

Like I'm not a minimalist in beauty at

13:46

thinking. I am a maximalist when it

13:48

comes to beauty and that. And

13:50

then when I would go and find things that had all

13:52

the technology and all the things that I was excited

13:55

about because that's the only reason why you buy

13:57

skincare, because you need

13:59

to get results. Then they had

14:01

all this industrial like it would

14:03

I would be like, guys, I want to do the natural

14:05

thing. What do you have? And they would show you this

14:09

that has algaees or that

14:11

that has workings, or this that happens

14:13

roses or but then you turn around

14:15

the box and you're like, sure, this has

14:18

roses, but it also has like fifteen

14:20

industrial chemicals that I don't want to be putting on my

14:22

skin every day. And a

14:24

lot of those industrial chemicals

14:27

are not necessarily the things that are giving you

14:29

the results, contrary to what we've been

14:31

hearing when you google what a lot of those formulas

14:34

they were more functionals. They were more

14:36

like thickeners and multifiers,

14:39

pH balancers, preservatives,

14:41

you know, like things that are needed

14:43

to make the formula work, not things that are

14:46

needed to be better.

14:49

A lot of like what revolve around making your

14:51

skin better, where the algaees and the roses

14:53

and everything else, but those natural

14:56

raw materials get mixed with a lot of like

14:58

synthetic industrial chemicals just to create

15:00

consistencies and pH and things like

15:02

that. So it became really fascinated

15:05

with this idea of like how can

15:07

we rethink all of this formulation

15:10

process where we can

15:12

really make a formula from the ground

15:14

up to be a hundred natural

15:17

because you know, in the beauty industry, I don't

15:19

know if you're aware, but the norm

15:21

is to outsource a lot

15:24

that has to do with products, Like

15:26

you outsource the

15:28

formulations two labs

15:30

that already have like basis, and

15:33

then depending on like where you're from, they

15:35

are, whatever your marketing story

15:37

is, they would add like one or two materials

15:40

or they would change the color, change to smell,

15:43

and then it's like the same base that it's like

15:45

in like fifty different brands, you know.

15:47

And a lot of those labs felt

15:50

that what I wanted to do was impossible,

15:52

like that would imagine they're used to

15:54

making formulas like in months,

15:56

this would take years of development. They thought

15:58

that it was totally impossible, not doable.

16:00

I was crazy, Who do you think you are? No

16:03

one has been able to do that, you

16:05

know, all sorts of excuses to really

16:07

what I got to the point that's like chemists

16:10

are just not

16:12

not they you know, like anybody else. They

16:14

don't like anything new, right, Like

16:16

why if it's not broken? Why for

16:19

me it was broken? Because I wanted to find

16:21

something that was just not available. So I

16:24

had to meet and really

16:26

work very closely with a total of like

16:28

eight different chemists that

16:31

helped me throughout five years to

16:34

develop and know how

16:37

of how to make a natural

16:39

products that actually worked, um

16:42

and that include global technology,

16:45

but that also a lot of

16:47

like the intrig like the functional

16:49

ingredients in the formula are also coming

16:52

from nature, so it's like okay, instead

16:54

of like COO and all

16:56

that it's a synthetic preservative,

16:59

I am going to use like this radish root

17:01

technology that comes from Germany, and I'm

17:03

gonna make an other you know,

17:06

a ferment that comes from Brazil

17:09

and then and then you achieve

17:11

similar to what the results that

17:13

you get through a lot of the synthetic things.

17:15

So it was a lot of like re engineering

17:18

formulation and that took

17:20

a really really long time and to make

17:22

formulas that are really unique. Right, So

17:24

that's the same base with just one

17:27

or two different ingredients, but your

17:30

customers are unique formula that

17:32

it's different than everything else

17:34

that it's out there. And for us that meant

17:37

not only the fact that it was totally pure,

17:39

but also I wanted to add a lot

17:42

of technology into our products like

17:44

that didn't want it to be just about one

17:46

ingredient and that's it, Like vitamin

17:48

C, you know, this

17:50

rare melon from Africa or

17:53

whatever. Wanted to be all

17:55

of those things. Well you you wanted to be

17:57

comprehensive. But what strikes me is

17:59

amazing about this is

18:03

the sort of the ingenuity,

18:05

the determination, And I

18:07

wonder, I know

18:09

the inspiration comes from

18:12

this story you tell us

18:15

about your childhood and the way that like your

18:17

grandmother and the women in the family, that

18:19

the beauty was social, which I actually

18:21

think is so cool to think about, like

18:24

a spab party, to think about making masks.

18:27

Someone just told me the other day something like

18:29

you can make a mask with honey and all these things

18:31

for your skin, and I was like, I don't

18:33

know how to do any of that. Honey and

18:36

a spoono of like yogurt, for example.

18:38

That's got one of my favorite,

18:40

the I y masks, and it

18:42

just makes them and you just put it on. There's nothing else

18:45

to do. That's amazing. But

18:47

I guess I wonder you know,

18:49

when you talk about formulation, chemistry,

18:52

were you were you into

18:54

science when you were a kid, Were

18:56

you into math? How

19:00

did how did your sort of academic interests

19:02

lead you to be an engineer

19:05

because obviously, as you mentioned,

19:07

you use so much of your engineering now. So

19:10

so where does that all connect from

19:12

the little girl making masks to her grandma

19:15

to to all of the science

19:18

totally. I mean, I've always been very curious.

19:21

But when I wasn't a child, I

19:23

thought that I was going to be either an interior decorator

19:25

or a fashion designer. But my

19:28

mom was against

19:30

all of those dreams. And you know,

19:32

she was like, now, I

19:35

don't know, like that seems like very narrow,

19:37

you know, like you're no one

19:39

thing like passion designer. That'steresting.

19:43

And when I was long, like when I was in school,

19:45

I had a fashion line with a friend of mine where

19:48

we were in the last three

19:50

years of my high school. I

19:52

had a fashion line. To mom was like, you already like

19:54

designed, like you know, like you're always do going

19:56

to Miami, you get your fabrics, you know how to do it, you

19:59

produce it like you know, like you have

20:01

good style like that. You don't learn

20:03

that in school. And she's like, no,

20:06

if if you're gonna go abroad and you want to

20:08

study and I'm gonna invest in your education,

20:11

like you need to learn something that it's more like

20:13

it gives you more wings. She's

20:15

like like, well, engineer, like she just

20:18

like brought that up. I don't know from where.

20:20

And she's like, yeah, if you want to go abroad,

20:23

like go and check out industrial engineering.

20:25

That was her idea. If we were

20:27

dying to abroad,

20:31

we had to study industrial engineering.

20:33

And I thought that I was gonna hate

20:35

it. I was gonna be like, oh my god, this is like

20:38

gonna totally suck. Like

20:40

I'll give it a try and then I'll be

20:42

you know, I'll be out of the house. And then even so I have

20:44

to like move to something and it's more the so well,

20:47

but I ended up loving industrial

20:49

engineering. Very

20:51

interesting, very interesting

20:54

career. It's very uh, it's a very

20:56

interesting. Um it's

20:58

it's it's all about times and methods

21:01

and the most efficient ways to do things.

21:04

It's very industrial about

21:06

like how to processes, methods,

21:09

times, that sort of thing, and

21:11

and I loved it. And I actually, during like

21:14

my high school, I was like a very mediocre

21:16

student. Like I was always like B plus,

21:19

yeah, heavy plus. And

21:22

my sister was like honor Roll society,

21:25

you know, like triple

21:28

A student and when

21:31

I started studying engineering, I became

21:33

like such an amazing student just because

21:35

I loved it. But I never thought that I would

21:37

become an industrial engineer.

21:40

And I actually hated chemistry in school.

21:43

Um, it just really happened

21:45

because I became I don't know how

21:47

or why. I just became really compelled.

21:50

You know those things that you just can't explain that

21:52

you go into a bubble and you do things and you're

21:54

like, I'm not gonna stop until this is done,

21:57

and like it's got this intelle

22:00

actual sort of challenge

22:02

that you have on yourself that you need to

22:04

figure this out, not only because you want

22:07

to start a company with because you're intellectually

22:09

challenge, especially after

22:11

you realize how rare it is and

22:13

that no one has actually tried to do

22:15

it successfully. Um.

22:18

And I just went into like a like

22:20

a like tunnel vision.

22:22

I had no idea how big the company

22:25

was gonna be. I didn't have like a big

22:27

business plan, you know, like we're gonna dominate

22:29

the world. Like it was never about that. It was just

22:31

really about having options able

22:35

to prove that you can make it happen. And I

22:37

thought that, I mean all I knew is that

22:39

I wouldn't be the only woman that it's looking

22:41

for this, Like, there would be a lot of

22:43

people that are that this is a priority

22:46

for them because interpretation

22:49

of the wellness movement it's it's

22:51

it's it's the highest form of

22:54

that interpretation, right, because everybody

22:56

has like different parameters for wellness.

22:58

For some people that are like is

23:00

clean is enough? Right? Like there's

23:02

like I just wanted to be clean. I just wanted

23:04

to not have like parravents or not have a

23:06

celests or right, clean is just about

23:08

avoiding a couple of controversial chemicals.

23:12

Uh. Clean is not a natural

23:15

you know, it's the whole world of the

23:17

whole universe that differs

23:19

between having a clean product and having a percent

23:22

natural formula is completely synthetic free.

23:25

Um. And I don't know, I

23:27

I just um.

23:29

Also happened to be at that point of my life

23:32

that I had moved from

23:34

New York to my farm

23:36

and this was an old dairy farm

23:39

and had a lot of barns and buildings,

23:41

and I was like, Oh, wouldn't be nice

23:43

to have the company based here too,

23:46

you know, in my farming, Yeah,

23:49

in Vermont, because we also grow some of the

23:51

ingredients here. In the farm, and I'm like,

23:53

wouldn't be to also produce the

23:55

products here? Well, it happens

23:58

to be that a lot of the production of

24:00

skin care. It's also not typically produced

24:02

by the companies. It's also another thing that

24:04

many many brands outsourced. So

24:07

again, other labs produced

24:09

the creams. Then

24:11

they take the cream, they fill the bottle,

24:14

they package the products. And a lot of companies

24:16

even like rely on distributors to even

24:18

like manage a lot of the sales of the

24:20

company. So I was like, wait,

24:23

so if someone else is doing this for

24:25

me one, I'm you

24:27

know, like I have like an ad and marketing

24:30

agency, Like I want to have a real skin care

24:32

company, like I want to be able to produce products.

24:34

And I was talking, um,

24:37

we were talking earlier about how for

24:39

a lot of my customers,

24:42

Like I'm sure they don't care who

24:44

if we outsource a lot of things, right, Like I

24:46

can outsource like even the production of my

24:48

content, Like can outsource the accounting,

24:50

I can alsours legal,

24:53

But they will care if

24:55

I outsource the making of our formulas,

24:58

you know, like me or products,

25:00

Like that's the most important thing that I do, Like I

25:03

think, you know, it's like as a

25:05

as a as a producer of products,

25:07

to be able to know how to make it and to be

25:09

able to make it is critical.

25:11

It was critical for me. So I

25:14

also envisioned like, well, maybe I can have like

25:16

my have a Harper factories here at the farm,

25:19

and I'm able to do that, And that was also

25:21

very challenging because again it's not the

25:23

way that the business operates, so it

25:26

took a lot of know how building the factory,

25:28

you know, how to make the products.

25:30

But then aptly, I think it's like the

25:32

best decisions. I know that they were hard and

25:34

that they were complicated, and it's

25:37

not necessarily about like something being

25:39

better than others. That this is what I

25:41

wanted. You know, I was a skin care

25:43

customer before, which I

25:46

really thought as like as a consumer

25:48

that all of these products that I was buying they were coming

25:50

from these brands in Switzerland

25:53

and they were made and like the Alps, you

25:55

know, like you get all these fantasies right as

25:57

a customer what you're buying,

26:00

and I wanted to keep that fantasy alive.

26:02

Like when I realized that yeah,

26:05

you can outsource and yes that's very

26:07

convenient. Uh, and I don't have

26:09

to deal with that. I was like, wait, by

26:11

why would I want to do that? And then I don't control

26:14

the sourcing of the ingredients that I want to

26:16

buy, so I don't know exactly what quality they're

26:18

buying. I now need to produce

26:21

based on the minimums of this third

26:24

party that has its own interests, not necessarily

26:26

the ones that I'm looking at, which is I

26:28

just need two thousand serums, and I need

26:31

a thousand of this cleanser, and I need to three

26:33

thousand of that. I don't need twenty thousand

26:35

tomorrow, because then what happens

26:37

is that you end up storing so much,

26:40

right, and then I'm that all that

26:42

store product actually gets two stores,

26:45

to the distribution channels to your

26:47

clients. That product is

26:50

older. You know, it's not super fresh.

26:52

It's not super fresh. So I also

26:55

was envisioning and dreaming about this brand

26:57

that also produced their products like food,

27:00

like a food company, that we're basically the

27:02

products every month so that we make exactly all

27:04

we need, we reduce the amount of

27:06

waste, and also we

27:08

are able to give products to our customers

27:10

that are super fresh, and that's when they're the

27:13

most potent. Right within the first sect

27:16

and that you're not gonna get it like a ten month

27:18

old and it's now, but

27:20

it's been made almost a year ago, you

27:22

know. So it strikes

27:24

me that so much of what you're talking about,

27:26

you know, production efficacy, freshness,

27:29

where things are produced, how things are sourced, how

27:31

they're made. You know that

27:33

that all feels like all

27:36

of your engineering skills like plugging

27:38

into this so well. And

27:41

and I know that, you know,

27:44

going from engineering in in real

27:46

estate development into this is would

27:49

seem like a big swing. But it's it seems

27:51

to make sense to me. But I'm

27:53

curious what what

27:55

really was the

27:59

lightbulb moment? What was the what was

28:01

the thing that made you want to

28:03

make that big of a shift, because I've

28:06

I've read about

28:08

how you really

28:11

got obsessed with truly clean,

28:14

you know, natural beauty after your stepfather

28:16

was diagnosed with skin cancer, which was back in two

28:19

thousand five, So we

28:22

would you say that's accurate? Was that really the shift

28:25

that that made you turn

28:27

all of that this way or or was

28:30

it other other things that had been

28:32

boiling up as well, not

28:34

well him through him, I gain

28:37

the knowledge right of like, hey,

28:41

you know, like I know that it's not in.

28:44

Uh, it's you know, it's not everybody

28:47

knows about the toxic load and really

28:49

understands the connection between your lifestyle

28:51

and your health. Was that something

28:54

that your stepfather's doctor's

28:56

highlighted in his diagnoses

28:58

processed day talk

29:01

to you about toxic ingredients and skincare.

29:04

Yeah, not only toxic ingredient food.

29:08

Is he exercising, what

29:10

like cleaning and how it has like all

29:12

these bad chemicals. Uh,

29:15

they were like skincare, they were like the things

29:17

that he uses every day, which is the only thing

29:19

that matters. He's the odorance to shampoo, his

29:21

ocean, his you know, like very broad.

29:24

But then in my mind I was like, oh

29:26

my god, Like for me, it's a

29:28

beauty closet, you know, like I have so

29:30

many I have hair, this that the

29:32

you know, skin body like you know, it's

29:34

like a clock, a product

29:36

like a wow and atomic bomb might

29:39

go off in there. And then

29:42

really the moment like I thought that I was

29:44

going to be able to find the product, obviously, I

29:46

was like, you know, I just need

29:48

to look for it. Really well, it's

29:51

somewhere. It must exist. I

29:53

see it now that it didn't

29:55

exist, And I found myself and like parties

29:58

telling friends about be careful

30:00

about he jokenone and you know

30:02

all of these things. They were like that,

30:05

but where are we gonna find this stuff?

30:07

Like stop? Like

30:09

stop, like where where where are you finding

30:11

things? And the reality is that I was really

30:13

struggling. I didn't I didn't know how to

30:16

change my Swiss skin care line for

30:18

anything that I had found, because

30:20

it's like things were that were

30:22

natural, Like yeah, they were natural, but there was

30:24

like three ingredients or something like very

30:27

simple. I was never really gonna

30:29

leave my like other I cream for that,

30:31

you know, or that my other serum for that.

30:34

And I started experimenting more with like shampoo,

30:36

body wash, the odorance, but never

30:38

really like my serious skincare if

30:41

I why change it to other things

30:43

that had natural botanicals in

30:45

them? If still they were going to have the same chemicals

30:47

that I was wanting to avoid from the line

30:49

that I was using anyway, So it was kind of like pointless.

30:53

So I took it from the sense

30:55

that I don't know what to do. I

30:57

don't know what to use anymore. I

31:01

am gonna try to figure this

31:03

out. I don't know where that came

31:05

from, honestly, to be in all

31:07

reality, Like people ask me this all the time.

31:09

I have no idea why I became

31:12

so obsessed with solving this, and

31:15

I it's it's it's I've

31:17

been like in a big roller coaster, and it's been

31:19

now to like look back and be like why did

31:21

I exactly started this? But at

31:23

the moment, it was like the most important thing

31:25

for me is to be able to short this. Uh.

31:28

And then once I realize that there was nothing

31:31

like it, I just became like even

31:33

more excited to be able for the

31:36

time to show that you can

31:38

do something and that there are alternatives.

31:41

Right, fifty

31:43

years of marketing just like one

31:45

point of view that synthetics are the only

31:47

thing that works, that synthetics are the only way to

31:49

make products that you know, Like there's

31:51

only been like fifty years of brainwashing

31:53

on like one direction. And then the

31:56

natural direction has been more

31:59

about product us that have been developed

32:01

with this mindset of like let's

32:03

make products that are natural, not let's

32:05

make products that work and

32:07

are natural. It's more about like we

32:10

live in this natural lifestyle. We just

32:12

want things that are you know, have hemp or

32:14

have this, or have calendola or have you

32:16

know, things that are like really

32:18

nice. We use a lot of those raw materials. But

32:21

you but when you're developing skincare,

32:24

which is very scientific and very

32:26

targeted, it's not like

32:28

that's not appealing, Like that's not the way

32:30

to be well of that, Like that's not really

32:32

an alternative for you

32:35

and for me as a consumer, I'm

32:37

frustrated by the idea that I can either

32:39

have something that's toxic and quote

32:41

unquote works, or something

32:43

that's natural and quote unquote doesn't.

32:45

Really I want something

32:48

that is healthy for my

32:50

body. You know, I think people

32:52

forget that our skin is actually our largest

32:55

organ, you know, we're treating It's

32:57

the only organ we have interact

32:59

with world every day in true

33:02

contact, and so to

33:05

think about what we put on it and how it affects

33:08

all the rest of our organs and our systems feels

33:10

important. And you

33:12

know, I want to take care of my skin. I want I want

33:14

my skin. I mean, I'm sitting here on a zoom staring

33:17

at your face and you have the most insane

33:19

glow I've ever seen. I'm like, I want

33:21

my skin to look like your skin and also be

33:24

healthy. But

33:27

I'm curious, you know, when we talk

33:29

about the the stuff that

33:31

was so shocking to discover, you

33:33

know, about what.

33:36

To your point, we've been brainwashed into thinking we need

33:38

for fifty years by these ad agencies, which

33:41

by the way, have largely been run by men who

33:43

tell women that they need to use these products that they don't

33:45

use. I'm like, this feels wrong. Oh,

33:48

I know when we're they

33:50

have no known right, like who knows?

33:53

And we learn, we grow, and we learn should

33:56

be innovating people. You know,

33:58

it's allowed, it's the goal. They're

34:00

not doing anything wrong. I'm

34:03

just talking from the perspective of someone that

34:05

it's really the learning with quality and that

34:07

it's really like it's a priority.

34:10

Maybe those decisions are questionable,

34:12

but they're not they're wrong with them.

34:14

They're legal. You can do them, you

34:16

know. They're just because we

34:18

can do something doesn't mean we should. What

34:21

when when you look at that sort

34:24

of swath of things, can you tell some of the listeners,

34:26

because you obviously have such an expertise in this looking

34:30

at ingredients that are allowed to

34:32

be used in the beauty industry, what are

34:34

a couple of the ingredients that are the most shocking

34:37

to you that many of us probably don't know

34:39

are in personal care products. Um,

34:43

whoa so many like

34:45

nail polish remover. It's in

34:48

a lot of products, um,

34:51

battery acid, it's a emulsifier

34:55

used uh,

34:59

a lot of derivatives

35:02

from petroleum, lots of

35:04

derivatives from petro wait hold

35:06

on. I have questions

35:08

battery. Why would battery as to

35:11

be used as an emulstifier? What does that

35:13

mean in beauty? Like? What what is an emustifier

35:15

doing to a skin product?

35:18

Yeah? And emulsifiers an ingredient that

35:21

mixes your water and your oil molecules

35:23

together so

35:26

that they can so that they can merge.

35:29

It's like a bridge, and you need them every

35:31

time that you're doing gels, that you're doing

35:33

emotions, that you're doing creams, if

35:35

you're doing like a hydrosol or

35:37

like an essence. Depending on the format,

35:40

you might not need them. You're

35:42

doing like oils bombs, you might not

35:44

need emultifiers. Um,

35:47

but you definitely need them when you're creating

35:49

textures. Wow.

35:52

And and then why petroleum

35:54

derivatives? Why on earth would be use

35:56

something that comes from oil

35:59

on our can Because

36:01

when when a lot of those molecules

36:04

are transformed, they feel

36:06

very silky, they feel

36:09

moisturizing, they feel amazing,

36:12

you know. They don't like about the tactile

36:15

and the feeling of moisture, the

36:18

feeling of like silk, like a

36:20

lot of that, like the methicne like a

36:22

lot of synthetic silicones.

36:24

They just feel really nice. So they counteract

36:27

a lot of like stickiness or tackiness

36:30

or you know, or make the product just sit

36:32

in a certain way. And uh.

36:34

And the reason why I don't

36:37

like them, all aside from the fact

36:39

that they are derived from patrol and was if they give

36:41

you a false sense of moisturization,

36:43

like you're not really moisturized. You just have

36:46

like really big particles

36:49

on top of the skin that

36:52

feel moisturized. But that is

36:54

really not true moisture of anything that you're

36:56

clogging your pores. They're

36:59

you know, like they're just sitting in the last layer.

37:02

They're not providing true most surization, which

37:04

is what you need in the deepest layer of your skin, Like

37:07

your hydration is in the deep layer of the

37:09

skin and only about

37:13

is in the surface. Okay, So

37:15

so those things, what you're explaining is that

37:18

they almost sit on top of your skin

37:20

like a like a barrier layer rather

37:23

than penetrating in so so if

37:25

something feels really silky because

37:27

of a petroleum byproduct, it's

37:30

actually just it's kind of lying

37:32

to you, I'm realizing, because it makes your face

37:34

feel smooth, but it's not actually getting into

37:36

your skin. No. Interesting,

37:40

They're just meant to provide a lot of like tactile

37:42

comfort and feel textures

37:46

and not that that doesn't exist in

37:48

the natural world too, right, Like

37:50

you need those tactile ingredients that we use

37:53

a lot from bamboo, and we do

37:56

use others that are made from ferments, and

37:58

you you need them because a lot of like raw materials

38:00

that you deal with are sticky tacky,

38:02

you know, like helluronic acid for example.

38:05

It's a molecule that is extremely sticky,

38:07

and then you need to act that active

38:10

with something that provides a lot of like you

38:12

know, like silkiness, and

38:14

you need those just for textures. But

38:17

but they are not derived from petroleum,

38:20

right either. And also a

38:22

lot of the natural versions of that. They're

38:25

really also providing

38:27

a lot of barrier protection, which

38:29

is really incredible because when you do products

38:32

like moisturizers, you

38:35

know, like those deep hydrators, you also

38:37

need to rely on a lot of like barrier

38:40

technology to keep that moisturizer

38:43

from evaporating from your skin and

38:45

like keeping it sealed inside of the

38:47

skin. So that's another of the functions

38:49

that a lot of this silicones and

38:52

silicone replacers do, aside from

38:54

the tactiles, that they also seal everything,

38:56

and you also need a lot of like

38:59

like right now, we just launch a moisturizer

39:01

that it's for our younger clients and it's called the water

39:04

Lock and younger

39:06

skin they still produce

39:08

very efficiently moisturization in the

39:10

skin. So it's not like you know, when you're dirties

39:13

and that your skin mechanisms to

39:15

start like degrading and then you start producing

39:17

less cells, you start producing less moisture. When

39:20

you're young, you produce good

39:22

you know, like your moisture level is good typically.

39:25

But what's effect that it's the last layer,

39:28

which is the one that it's really susceptible to

39:30

the environment because it's the layer that

39:33

if you're like in the desert, it gets dehydrated

39:35

and or if you're like in a c it's

39:37

suffered. So this moisturizer has

39:40

a lot of like water trapping technology

39:42

that traps water in that last layer with

39:44

a lot of spears, a lot of like different

39:46

um sugar carbohydrates. We

39:49

use a lot of peptides as

39:52

well, and then we also I think that

39:54

that formula has the bamboo silicones

39:56

as well to provide additional silkiness

39:58

to the skin. So

40:01

it's like one of those raw materials

40:03

that you have to play with. But those are

40:05

more functional ingredients, not

40:07

necessarily ingredients to give your results, right,

40:10

like ingredients to give your results. Those are like

40:12

more like actives, got it.

40:15

So you have to think about the actives, the

40:17

things that are giving people the results that they

40:19

want, and you have to think about the required

40:22

sort of elemental ingredients that make them

40:24

feel the way we're accustomed to them feeling,

40:27

and stabilizers and there's

40:29

it's amazing really how much chemistry

40:32

goes into all of this. And

40:35

I feel like we're more I

40:39

feel like these conversations in a way

40:41

have permeated more into the culture,

40:44

Like we're aware of a

40:46

lot more than we used to be. But I think back

40:49

when you started this company, you know, two

40:51

thousand five, people

40:53

weren't really talking about green

40:56

beauty or or ingredient lists

40:58

the way they are now. So uh,

41:01

you know, I know you said that so many people

41:04

essentially told you you were crazy to try to

41:06

do this, and that all the chemists said there

41:08

was no way it was

41:11

was the beauty industry also

41:15

unwelcoming to to this kind of idea.

41:20

I mean, I honestly have never

41:22

been someone that are like really close

41:24

to the trade that I'm

41:26

like, oh, what do you think? You

41:29

know? I was just kind of like really solo

41:31

developing this and uh

41:34

and and just really the

41:36

only thing that I've always cared about is my client.

41:40

The industry it's on board

41:43

or not, it was really irrelevant,

41:45

right, no, because it's got the power

41:48

of my customers and what

41:50

they're looking for. Um.

41:53

I think that overall, though, I think

41:55

that the beauty industry has

41:58

responded a lot of the for an industries

42:00

to trying to be more healthy with the whole

42:03

clean which, in my opinion,

42:06

eventually everything will be clean because you

42:08

know why products

42:11

right or pay definitely

42:13

not pay a lot of money for dirty products.

42:17

But but

42:19

yeah, I mean, it's it's it's just

42:21

like been. I think that the the

42:23

fact that we exist and that it was able

42:25

to we were able to make it happen, it was

42:28

actually very encouraging for other people that

42:30

made I started thinking about

42:32

this or started getting

42:34

ideas of how to use different raw materials

42:36

that they were really obscure and like no

42:39

mention to them before. And then you're like, oh, actually,

42:42

you know this wax from olives is a really

42:44

great I'm alsified. For example,

42:46

like that's also fuires that we buy

42:48

its waxes from olives. So

42:51

I think it's so cool because in a way, and you were

42:53

saying this earlier, you know that

42:57

a lot of people could tell you how

43:00

it had been done, how

43:02

the status quo is maintained, but you wanted

43:04

to do something completely new. How

43:07

do you actually go about beginning

43:09

a company as an entrepreneur? What

43:12

was involved in in

43:14

the beginning? How did you find

43:17

things like wax from olives and

43:19

and tree bark from wherever?

43:22

And you know the science so

43:25

you could do this? You know? How how did you know

43:27

what to do? Because there's so many

43:29

people who I would wager are are listening to

43:31

this conversation thinking I'm so inspired. But

43:34

where do you start? I?

43:37

Um, you know, first and foremost,

43:39

I think that the first thing that

43:41

it's the most important of you want to start a company

43:44

is to make sure that whatever you

43:46

are producing makes

43:49

people's lives better. I

43:51

think that there are too many products out there.

43:54

It's like given in the Beauty and the super Bowl asked me,

43:56

like what do you think, and I'm like,

43:58

I honestly have no time to about competition.

44:00

There are too many Everything sounds

44:03

very similar to me, like I'm just really

44:05

focused on what I'm doing and what I'm delivering

44:07

to my clients, and I honestly don't have a

44:09

lot of time for distractions,

44:12

you know what I mean, Like it's art or team

44:14

is not a big team. So I think that it's

44:16

really important that whatever you're making it's

44:19

really different, and that also

44:21

super important. It's making the life of your

44:23

client better. And that also by

44:26

the fact that your product exists, more

44:29

trash is not created into the world,

44:31

which is a different subject that we haven't talked

44:33

about, but that has been super important to me

44:35

since the beginning, which is I want to

44:37

make sure that the products are in

44:39

itself sustainable, you

44:41

know, because a lot of times it's just a

44:43

lot of like when you read sustainability

44:45

efforts, you're like, if they revolve

44:48

around giving

44:50

a lot of money to third parties, supporting

44:52

a charity, changing one

44:55

too, from being bioplastic

44:59

and all that is like really nice and

45:01

and I think that that is all great steps,

45:03

but that's not enough to call yourself

45:05

a sustainable company. To have a sustainable

45:08

company, the product that you produce

45:10

must in it in itself be

45:13

sustainable, you know what I mean, like the existence

45:15

of that. You know, it's like our creams,

45:18

they're not gonna pollute the air,

45:20

they won't pollute the water, they're completely biodegradable.

45:23

We try to reduce waste by being able

45:25

to make it ourselves. You know, there's a lot

45:28

like sustainabilities built into

45:30

the whole thing. And I think that that is also

45:33

super important if you're gonna start a company nowadays,

45:37

and that it's not an afterthought or like a

45:39

marketing claim, but it's something that really it's

45:41

almost like a three sixty approach that goes

45:43

into almost every decision that you make

45:45

as a as a brand. Uh

45:48

So, after I figured out that my product

45:50

was really going to elevate my clients

45:52

quality of life, I honestly

45:55

just started reading books on

45:57

the subject and I would be And

45:59

then actual world it's so

46:02

so diverse because you have

46:04

a lot of different sciences in the natural world.

46:07

You have homeopathy, you have essential

46:09

oils, you have herbalism, you

46:11

have like all the green biotech.

46:13

You know, Like there's a lot of different things. So

46:16

there's a lot of different things to read. There's

46:18

also a lot of like skin biologists,

46:20

cosmetic chemists. So I would just buy

46:23

a lot of books, and those books that I really

46:25

liked, I would contact

46:27

the author and I would

46:30

bio and I would be like, oh, he

46:32

is the president of the Society of

46:34

Cosmetic Chemists in the UK, and I would

46:36

just like ring them and I'd be like, Hi,

46:39

I want to get the email. Who's you know? Like,

46:41

could you give me the email? I really want to talk to

46:43

him about this idea. I would send

46:46

him the email with what I thought, tell him

46:48

to give me some dates that I want to go visit him

46:50

in London, and then I would go to London

46:52

talk to him and put

46:54

me in touch with someone, and then that someone would put

46:56

me in touch with someone, and then I would read another

46:58

book and I would come to at them and then it

47:01

was like a whole network of people. And

47:04

that's when you realize that you can never

47:06

do anything alone. I need also a lot

47:08

of people that are able to

47:10

help you selflessly, you know, like

47:12

like that also are intellectually curious

47:15

about what you're doing, because there's no way that from

47:17

being a small brand you can really compensate

47:20

people for working in your project for years,

47:22

you know what I mean. And

47:26

that's how it began. And then I just started.

47:28

And then the more that I learned and the more that

47:30

I meet with all this

47:32

chemist, the more that I became fascinated,

47:34

the more that I started learning and then comprehending,

47:37

like I don't formulate our products,

47:40

but I am kind of like the you

47:43

know, like I we have our own laps and we have our

47:45

own chemists that work with us, and my team

47:47

is like super fabulous, but

47:50

I'm they're giving them feedback about like

47:52

oh, I like that raw material that it's really amazing

47:55

for vascular permeability,

47:57

or let's add that raw material that we found

47:59

for epidermal thickness, or wow,

48:01

this would be a great product for that lab

48:04

that created you know in you know,

48:06

in Israel, those molecules that

48:08

help relax wrinkles, Like let's add

48:10

them formula and maybe let's create a

48:12

redundancy and let's add that. So I've

48:14

learned a lot about how the skin works

48:17

to the I'm able to advise

48:19

on like the curation of the raw

48:21

materials because I love this idea that every

48:24

formula has a lot of staggered

48:26

like there's a whole strategy behind the formulation.

48:28

That it's not just about vitamin C and

48:32

that's it. It's about a lot

48:34

because the skin has so many processes

48:36

and so many things to take care of, right, Like

48:39

vitamin C is an amazing antioxidant,

48:41

but it's not like the be all end all of

48:43

like cosmetic chemistry, you know

48:46

what I mean, So

48:48

you know all the needs of the skin. It's

48:50

like, Okay, the skin needs proper blood flow

48:52

from your bloodstream and that comes

48:54

into your third layer. So we need to really reinforce

48:57

that layer so you're getting all the nutrition that you're

48:59

getting from food in that layers

49:01

where you produce holluronic acid. To in order

49:03

to effectively moisturize a

49:06

skin. Skin, you need to get to the

49:08

dermal layer and you really need to help stimulate

49:11

holloronic acid production there. That

49:13

layers all your you know, your

49:16

collagen fibers, so that's where you produce

49:18

collagen, and those fibers related

49:20

they need to grow you know, it's like there's a whole

49:23

approach depending on what

49:25

you're making. It's so cool and it's so inspiring,

49:28

and I love learning about how

49:30

all the systems in the body are reflected

49:33

in the systems of the skin. It's

49:36

so it feels like the most fun

49:38

nerdy rabbit hole to jump down. And I

49:40

can understand why once you started, you

49:42

just were like off for the races. You

49:45

know, you you talked about how

49:48

you don't want to do what many by companies

49:50

do, which is subcontract everything. You know,

49:52

you you want to make things, you want to

49:54

supervise them. I mean on on your own farm.

49:57

You know, you moved from New York to Vermont. You

49:59

can do all of this on

50:01

your property, which I just think is the coolest

50:03

thing. And then I'm curious

50:05

because you're also talking about the size and scope

50:08

of teams, kinists, mixers,

50:10

you know, sourcing material. Does

50:13

there's obviously incredible benefit to making

50:16

your own products and benefit to the consumer.

50:19

Does it also make things more

50:21

expensive from a practical perspective

50:24

to to do it the way that you do it? Yeah,

50:28

everything, it's like everything more

50:30

expensive. I think

50:32

that's somehow and I hope that you

50:35

know that you know, people don't get

50:37

this the wrong way, but you

50:39

know it's it's like, you know, we all get excited

50:41

with the shirt

50:44

right until we realize what

50:46

does it take to make a thirty shirt?

50:50

Right. It's like a lot of people don't are not get paid

50:53

paid fair wages were

50:56

involved. The materials might not be

50:58

the finest. Yeah, if you

51:00

want something that it's high quality, that it's

51:02

durable, that it's good for you, good for

51:04

the earth a lot, and

51:07

that also the packaging is responsible,

51:09

that it's made the right way. Yeah,

51:13

that things need to be cheap. It's really

51:15

not coherent with the realities

51:17

of what you pay to make those

51:20

decisions, you know what I mean. Like, if

51:23

you want raw materials that are natural, that

51:25

cost more. If you want raw materials that are organic,

51:28

now that costs even more. Do you want

51:30

materials that are bioengineered

51:32

and that actually are grown

51:34

but that are a bioengineered but grown responsibly,

51:37

that are also extracted the right

51:39

way, that it's made with the right methods, that it's

51:41

fair tray, that it's GMO free.

51:44

Then you want packaging that doesn't pollute.

51:47

So you know, you have to custom make a

51:49

lot of our bottles because they are that's

51:52

because glass is infinitely recyclable.

51:54

And then the boxes are made with curtains

51:56

that come from FORCE certified forests

51:59

that you know, they grow responsibly and

52:01

they don't deplete like all of those things

52:03

that everything adds up, so

52:06

that and that's the result of

52:08

the price points, not like an arbitrary

52:11

number that I decided to like just put in

52:13

there, like oh, this is dred

52:15

dollars because that is said that it's five founder

52:17

dogs. No, it's a result of

52:20

all the things that are inside. You

52:23

also have that have multiple

52:26

ingredients in them and not just one, because

52:29

I love the idea of making formulas where people

52:31

get multiple results from the products,

52:33

not just one, but mostly then

52:36

that that keeps adding, you know, and

52:38

and and uh and hopefully

52:41

a lot of our clients like really appreciate

52:43

everything that happens and that we do behind the

52:45

scenes to be able to make our products, including

52:48

to be able to make them ourselves because that's

52:50

even more expensive. Yes, right,

52:53

So what would your advice be, because

52:55

you know, we definitely have a lot of like younger

52:58

women and like early professionals

53:01

who are listening and and for

53:03

listeners who don't yet have

53:06

the budget to spend a lot on skincare,

53:09

but who really want to use clean

53:12

and and holistic products.

53:14

Do you have advice on where you start or

53:16

advice on maybe even what

53:18

to what to cut out and and maybe

53:21

look for in skincare? Sure,

53:24

so it depends on the age group, right,

53:27

So if you're younger, um,

53:29

you know, I'm by younger, I mean like twenty

53:31

five and younger. So you're rich, you

53:33

don't need a lot of products. Your skin still

53:35

works pretty well, right, Like, you just

53:38

need to keep it clean, keep it moisturized, and

53:40

maybe exfoliated every

53:43

so often. Mm hmm. And

53:45

when you start getting older and you

53:47

need to support your skin on the anti

53:49

aging front, then you need aside

53:51

from the clanser, then you need the two most

53:53

important anti aging products, which is your

53:55

serum and your I cream which is where

53:57

all the anti aging typically lie. Some

54:00

products. And

54:02

then you might need additional masks if

54:05

you're dry or you know, or

54:07

maybe ask if you're like breaking out

54:09

and your blemish prone. But I

54:11

think that it really depends on your priorities.

54:14

Like I think that if you're older and you're trying

54:16

to maximize anti aging, definitely

54:19

investing in a serum and or I cream it's

54:21

like the most important. And maybe the cleanser

54:24

doesn't need to be as high,

54:26

you know, it doesn't need to be as intense

54:29

in the treatment category, right Or

54:31

maybe that ruman that I cream

54:34

give you a moisture that you don't need an added

54:36

moisturizer because they are already taking

54:38

care of that for you, which is the case of all of

54:40

serums that are also very moisturizing.

54:43

Uh. It's really prioritizing

54:45

what you want to work on and

54:49

and and I think that that's probably how

54:51

I would do it. If I, let's

54:53

say, don't have the budget to have like a full

54:56

ritual, right, um

54:59

is that then I would be like, Okay, my

55:01

eyes are the most important thing for me, so

55:03

let me start there. M hm, you

55:06

know which, I believe that that is, By the way, the

55:08

most important anti aging product is your

55:10

I cream um more

55:13

than your serum. It's your IRA because

55:15

that's where we get our first wrinkles. That

55:17

skin also has a lot more

55:19

issues, Like that area of your face has

55:21

a lot more issues than like the rest of

55:23

your face, right the rest of your face, like

55:25

a serum for example, typically when

55:28

you develop a serum. You add a lot of anti

55:30

aging ingredients at multiple levels. But

55:33

then an I cream has all of those

55:35

anti aging ingredients, but then it considers

55:38

other things that don't happen around your skin, Like

55:40

around the eye area, we get a lot of dark shadows,

55:43

so you have to add a lot of ingredients for

55:45

vascular health. Also

55:47

around the eye area we get puffy, we

55:49

retain fluids, so you need to bring

55:52

a lot of blood flow and you need to bring on

55:54

a lot of exceedent nation. You know, It's like I

55:56

think that the are like literally

55:58

the most important priority

56:01

at least for me um in terms

56:04

of product. Mm

56:05

hmm. That's so cool when

56:09

when you look back, we talked

56:11

about, you know, this being your tenure annipersary

56:13

and how exciting that is for the company. Um,

56:17

I know you began this endeavor in two

56:19

thousand five, but you officially launched in two

56:21

thousand ten. How

56:25

How were you able to get

56:27

the word out so quickly? How how

56:29

do you think now in hindsight you realize

56:31

you you've been able to build

56:33

this business in the way that you have Because again,

56:36

I just think that as an entrepreneur, you're so

56:38

inspiring and there's a lot

56:40

of people who are going to learn so much from your story.

56:42

So looking back, as

56:44

you're about to celebrate this milestone, do

56:47

you do you have observations to share

56:49

with the listeners about how

56:51

you did this and and maybe what you

56:53

would recommend they do if they're trying to

56:55

start a business of some kind. Yeah.

56:58

And by the way, I, if I know, means

57:00

think that the way that I did it is the

57:02

only way I think that people to adapt

57:05

depending on their circumstances.

57:07

I mean I was a tiny company with no

57:09

marketing budget, and you know, and

57:11

it's still to date our marketing Like

57:14

I think that we hire our first UH

57:16

team member for marketing like two and a half

57:18

years ago, So just so you know how much

57:20

we suck in marketing, Like

57:25

it's never been like a big payer. Like we're a

57:27

product company, you know, like we put all of our

57:29

energy in the products, and like marketing

57:32

like the last thing that we think about, which is

57:34

not necessarily the case or maybe wise

57:36

for a lot of other companies. But

57:39

I am a big believer in

57:42

the power of like word of

57:44

mouth. I think that

57:46

that's how I got started. It was all word about.

57:48

I started doing a lot of the things that I had learned

57:50

from my grandmother and started doing

57:52

a lot of spa parties. And I remember

57:55

traveling around the US

57:57

doing a lot of them, like my friends and bread

58:00

friends in Balibu, my friends in New York, my

58:02

friends in Miami, my friends here, and they're

58:04

like really, just hey, gather a couple

58:06

of friends. And you know, I had been

58:08

spending so much time developing the

58:10

products that I was dying

58:13

for feedback about like what do you think?

58:15

You know? Do you like them? Do you not like them? Like

58:17

is it working? Is it not working? And

58:20

and not only did I finished a lot of my

58:22

formulas with a lot of those beauty

58:25

classes, but also I

58:27

started like my first customers from

58:29

those beauty classes, and I started my

58:31

first website from a lot of those

58:33

customers. And then one of those cars,

58:36

I think it was one of the um

58:38

this girl that worked that Vogue and

58:41

she loved it so much. And for my

58:43

launch here, we got like a

58:45

huge story in Vogue, which was like a

58:48

dream come true and uh,

58:50

and it was so amazing. I think that we got

58:52

like a five page spread and Vogue,

58:54

which is unheard of now and

58:57

uh. And I also think that the

59:00

US and the journalists, Like

59:02

a lot of like the beauty editors were

59:04

just really inspired what what we were doing,

59:06

and it was so innovative and so different

59:09

that they like, I'm eternally grateful

59:11

for everybody that has helped me to spread

59:14

the word and and just really love our products.

59:16

And I think that the last thing is

59:18

that people just really enjoy using

59:21

them. They see results. It's like the

59:23

results are on the niable. So it's

59:25

like when something is giving your results, you continue

59:27

buying it and you keep talking about it. And I

59:30

think that that is the key to success,

59:32

to be able to make a product that people want

59:34

to want to keep using and when

59:36

I keep buying and that love the experience.

59:39

And also like our formulas are

59:41

a very aromatic experience, which

59:43

I know that it's not for everybody, but a

59:46

lot of us see skincare as a way of

59:49

soothing and calming and like that ritual

59:51

that just brings a lot of like calm

59:54

life and like self pampering, right,

59:57

and and those our products

59:59

you can smell nature, you know,

1:00:01

like they bring a lot of

1:00:03

comfort to people's to

1:00:05

people's lives. And

1:00:08

that's that's how we did it. Honestly, there was

1:00:10

nothing there

1:00:12

was not like if I couldn't go back, there was

1:00:14

nothing that we did. I mean, we've always

1:00:17

been a very generous brand. So when

1:00:19

such and such assistant calls us

1:00:21

and this and that one wants, we've always

1:00:24

you know, we've always

1:00:26

been very generous. Uh and let

1:00:28

people try it and uh and

1:00:30

that has been really, like really really

1:00:33

amazing for us. Mm hmm.

1:00:35

That's cool. When you

1:00:37

talk about skincare as a ritual, what

1:00:40

that feels like now and the way that you grew

1:00:42

up seeing it in you

1:00:45

know, generations of women in your family. What

1:00:48

is your daily skincare ritual?

1:00:51

How do you how do you practice self

1:00:53

care that way? Well,

1:00:55

I practice self care in many other ways

1:00:57

than just skincare. I I've

1:01:00

been I do a couple of things. I monitor

1:01:02

my sleep really well, but

1:01:04

at least seven to eight hours every night, and

1:01:06

then the weekends I try to even sleep nine

1:01:09

if I can get them in. Um.

1:01:13

Also, I try to exercise, because

1:01:16

I think that exercise has been really amazing

1:01:18

to help not only you

1:01:20

know, obviously like it's amazing for your

1:01:23

health, but it's also amazing to control stress.

1:01:25

And stress is a big part of like

1:01:27

how you know, the controlling stress has

1:01:30

a place a big role in how your skin

1:01:32

looks because there's a real connection

1:01:34

between your emotions and your skin. It's

1:01:36

actually a new field of study called psycho

1:01:38

dermatology. I

1:01:41

take bath with my kids. I

1:01:43

try to eat really well, Like I try

1:01:45

to eat a lot of fruits and a lot of vegetables.

1:01:47

And I love during my day with

1:01:49

this really packed smoothie with like lots

1:01:52

of berries and lots

1:01:54

of supplements like powder. I

1:01:56

love um

1:01:59

adding a lot of uh marine

1:02:01

collagen from vital proteins.

1:02:04

I also love adding mkuna prurians

1:02:06

for mood regulation

1:02:10

from this company called sun

1:02:12

Potion. Um. We atill

1:02:15

have like this amazing like superpoot

1:02:17

food powders that I just add

1:02:19

that has like a lot of like dried

1:02:22

freeze algaees, vegetables,

1:02:24

fruits. It's also a lot of magnesium

1:02:27

UM. And then I

1:02:29

start my day with that and then my skincare.

1:02:33

I am a believer on layering,

1:02:36

but believer inconsistency, like

1:02:38

doing it every twelve hours and doing the

1:02:40

same steps every twelve hours. So yeah,

1:02:44

like in the morning, I love I started

1:02:46

they always with an exfoliation because

1:02:49

at night we

1:02:51

ah we produce a lot of that skin cells

1:02:53

when we're sleeping, you know, like when we're sleeping are

1:02:55

certain rhythm kicks on.

1:02:58

You know, like this rhythm that we have that resets

1:03:01

all of our organs, and that typically

1:03:03

kicks on around like ten pm

1:03:05

at night more or less. And

1:03:07

as part of all those processes is your

1:03:10

skin gets her reset. And for the skin,

1:03:12

one of the things that that means is that a

1:03:14

lot of your old skin cells

1:03:16

die, a lot of the new skin cells grow,

1:03:19

you know, like the skin is like an organ that it's

1:03:21

in constant transformation. So

1:03:23

you wake up and I love the idea of removing

1:03:25

all that that skin cells that have accumulated

1:03:27

at night. It's not like my skin is dirty,

1:03:29

you know, I've been sleeping. But in

1:03:32

exfoliation is key.

1:03:34

And then after that exfoliation,

1:03:36

I love to layer products in this order

1:03:39

because I just think that there's definitely a

1:03:41

science to layering you

1:03:44

can get the most out of your results. So I love

1:03:46

to always start with an essence because

1:03:49

essences are not only

1:03:51

hydrating products,

1:03:53

but they're also provided penetration

1:03:56

enhancement. So a lot of products

1:03:58

that you add after an essence

1:04:01

are gonna go deeper instead of the skin. So

1:04:03

essences really help you maximize

1:04:05

your routine. That's

1:04:07

why for me, essences are not like a

1:04:09

luxury or optional. They're really like a

1:04:12

must because they allow me to make

1:04:14

the most out of everything that I apply. Afterwards,

1:04:16

Now I do the essence, and

1:04:19

then after the essence, I always layer

1:04:21

in the order in which the

1:04:23

product the molecular sizes

1:04:25

of the product, right like you always want

1:04:28

to do the products smaller molecular

1:04:30

sizes first, and then the

1:04:33

the bigger molecules last. Like for example,

1:04:35

oil should always be last because

1:04:37

oils penetrates everything, but not everything

1:04:40

penetrates oil um.

1:04:43

So typically the products that have

1:04:45

the smaller molecular sizes are your ie

1:04:47

cream and your serum because those two products

1:04:49

work in the deepest layer of your skin. So

1:04:52

a lot of our pre eye creams and our

1:04:55

serums they're all about working in your

1:04:57

dermis where all of the anti aging

1:04:59

is really happening in the skin. Then

1:05:01

after I apply those two, and

1:05:04

then you want to lay your moisturizer because moisturizer

1:05:07

has ingredients in multiple

1:05:09

molecular sizes, just because you need the hydration

1:05:11

inside and you also need hydration outside,

1:05:14

so you want to layer that because

1:05:17

you know, you have like that deep hydration, but

1:05:19

then you also have the superficial hydration. And

1:05:22

then after moisturizer, then

1:05:24

use when you do face oil or you do sunscreen,

1:05:27

or you do any of those like bigger molecules

1:05:29

things that are more there to provide nutrition,

1:05:32

to provide more barrier

1:05:34

protection. Uh. They're

1:05:36

not necessarily working deep down in

1:05:39

the skin or anything like that. Uh.

1:05:41

And that's what I do every day. That's

1:05:44

what I do every single day, morning and

1:05:46

night and night. I would like to change

1:05:50

things up a little bit in the in the cleansing

1:05:52

front, like I love to double clans.

1:05:54

Like I always love starting with an oil cleanser,

1:05:56

which is always amazing to remove dirt

1:05:59

and party goals and remove makeup. Oil

1:06:02

is really effective at removing big

1:06:05

particles from the skin. They're

1:06:07

fabulous for that. But then

1:06:11

if you start with an oil cleanser, then

1:06:13

how do you get the oil off for

1:06:17

the other things to penetral the oil cleanser

1:06:19

that our oil oil cleanser

1:06:22

has an emulsifying system, so you

1:06:24

cleanse and then you put water and then it

1:06:26

like turns into a milk. Cool.

1:06:30

Oh you're listening, it's so cool.

1:06:33

Yeah, I'm literally we're talking,

1:06:35

and I'm like, I keep putting the microphone on my knee

1:06:37

and taking notes on the commuter moisturizer.

1:06:43

At night, I mean, I used the same I cream

1:06:45

on the same serum, because those two products shouldn't

1:06:47

be changed between morning and night, because those

1:06:49

two products are more about cumulative

1:06:52

results, so you really need to use them every twelve

1:06:54

hours. You know. Those are the products that I call for

1:06:57

your skin up tomorrow right

1:07:00

then. While your cleansers, moisturizers,

1:07:02

masks, oils, they're more about

1:07:04

like your skin today, Like I'm dirty,

1:07:06

okay, I need a cleanser. Oh my skin is

1:07:08

fry. I need a moisturizer right like

1:07:10

that. That's not not about cumulative

1:07:13

results. That's about like right

1:07:15

here right now. So at

1:07:17

night I like to change up and use

1:07:19

more of like a like creme Reach. I don't

1:07:22

know if you're familiar with that like super like

1:07:24

rich cream that we have that it's the one

1:07:26

that I use, and then I

1:07:29

mix it with a couple drops of our retinoi

1:07:32

and nutrient face oil and that's what I do

1:07:34

every night. That's so cool,

1:07:37

Okay, You've been so generous

1:07:39

with your time and your advice. Thank you so

1:07:42

much. I have one final question for you,

1:07:44

and it's my favorite thing to ask everyone

1:07:46

who comes on the podcast. As

1:07:48

you know, the title of our show is called

1:07:50

work in progress. And I wonder

1:07:53

when you hear that phrase, what comes to

1:07:55

mind as something

1:07:57

that is a work in progress in your life

1:07:59

right now, whether it's personal, professional,

1:08:02

as a career, woman, as a mom, anything.

1:08:05

Really, I

1:08:07

think that being a mom is a working progress

1:08:10

for me, you know, like I I

1:08:13

I mean, I don't know how you guys don't

1:08:15

have kids right yet? No? Uh,

1:08:19

you know, I have never been one of those people

1:08:21

that I was like, oh my god, I kind of way to have

1:08:23

kids and to be a mom, you know, like you

1:08:25

know, I don't know. I always tell my mom like I feel

1:08:27

like I'm not like a natural mother and

1:08:30

uh and uh.

1:08:32

And I have three kids that

1:08:35

I'm constantly rethinking

1:08:37

my motherhood, um

1:08:40

and raise my children

1:08:43

and the relationship that I have

1:08:45

with them. It's a

1:08:47

working progress because as they change

1:08:49

and they become older, like you know, a lot

1:08:51

of their expectations and what

1:08:53

they come to you for changes. So

1:08:56

now it's like, you know, I am like

1:08:58

the advice like they have a lot

1:09:00

of advice around like girls

1:09:02

in their classroom that they love and

1:09:04

you know, how do I And you

1:09:07

know, also like someone other like finding

1:09:09

their fashion styles

1:09:11

and who are you know, how do they want to address?

1:09:14

And like what you know? And they're

1:09:16

so different, and

1:09:19

that that part of my life is a constant work

1:09:21

in progress. So I think that that's what comes

1:09:23

to mind because I'm always thinking

1:09:26

about how my role changes so much

1:09:28

with them too. That's

1:09:31

so cool, that's

1:09:33

so cool. I really

1:09:35

appreciate you sharing that. I

1:09:37

think that so many

1:09:39

women have, you

1:09:42

know, been told again by by all this

1:09:44

messaging we get about how we're supposed

1:09:46

to look and how we're supposed to be. There's so much

1:09:48

messaging around motherhood. And

1:09:51

I've been so inspired by some of the women

1:09:53

in my life who share what's beautiful,

1:09:56

what's really beautiful, and what's brutal

1:09:59

and what's amazing and it's confusing and

1:10:02

and I heard, uh

1:10:05

Jada Pinkett Smith was interviewed

1:10:07

on a podcast I listened to a few months

1:10:09

ago, and she was talking about

1:10:11

how she had to come to terms with the fact

1:10:13

that as a mother, her job

1:10:16

is to kind of shield and

1:10:19

and shepherd and also stay

1:10:21

out of the way of her children as they

1:10:23

become the adults that they've been

1:10:26

destined to be, and

1:10:28

and I just thought, wow, that's so cool

1:10:32

and vulnerable, and also must feel so

1:10:34

complicated because when they're little babies,

1:10:37

they need you for everything, and then when they get older

1:10:39

and independent, you still have to teach

1:10:41

them stuff, but you have to encourage their independence.

1:10:44

And when do you know when to step in and when to step

1:10:46

back? And I just I observe

1:10:49

with some of my friends, and I think back

1:10:51

on my own relationship with my mother, and I

1:10:53

listened to women like you who admire, and

1:10:56

I realized it must just feel like such an ever

1:10:58

changing dance. And I

1:11:01

like when people are willing to kind of share

1:11:04

inside looks at that and

1:11:06

listen, none of us are perfect, right like

1:11:08

we we all try

1:11:10

our best, and we all

1:11:12

make mistakes. And you know, I definitely

1:11:15

I can tell you that I've

1:11:18

made many mistakes that you're like, oh, why did

1:11:20

I do that? Like it was the

1:11:22

best response, or you know, why

1:11:24

did I scream? Like she was just

1:11:27

you know, she just caught me at the right moment,

1:11:29

you know, like at the moment where I was just like

1:11:31

really after like a like I was just

1:11:33

irritated after something and

1:11:35

and you and I think that all of those

1:11:38

opportunities on

1:11:40

all those things that happened is just really

1:11:42

a reminder that you know, there'll be tomorrow,

1:11:45

you know, where you're gonna be able to correct

1:11:47

that and think about it and

1:11:49

react better to all those things

1:11:52

and and not and learn how to not be

1:11:55

so tough on myself because I feel

1:11:57

that, you know,

1:11:59

especially when I was starting the business

1:12:01

and it was having them, I remember being a point

1:12:03

where I was like so hard on myself.

1:12:06

It was so wow,

1:12:08

I like, I'm a lunatic, Like I

1:12:10

would like I would

1:12:13

never treat anybody the way I treat myself,

1:12:15

you know, or expect this sort

1:12:17

of things from anybody, like what's

1:12:19

wrong with me? And I think that I'm

1:12:22

able to just positively like, well, you

1:12:24

know, yeah, that was not great. I'm going to

1:12:26

apologize and um and

1:12:28

the next time I'm going to tell her that when

1:12:30

she has this every thing, she should just ask me this

1:12:32

way, and I'm gonna try to react this way,

1:12:34

and just releasing tomorrow

1:12:37

as an opportunity to just act differently

1:12:39

and not give yourself hard time,

1:12:42

because I mean, our role already

1:12:44

as woman in the world is

1:12:46

so complicated, right, It's like we have like

1:12:48

all the motherhood's now if you work, it's

1:12:51

like all those responsibilities that you have

1:12:53

also, and it's like and sometimes

1:12:56

we just don't even allow our partners to help

1:12:58

us, right because we feel that that's not okay

1:13:00

that we should do at all. And and actually

1:13:03

a big proponent of actually like no,

1:13:05

let them be like holding a capital

1:13:08

and let them be alone. They

1:13:10

will figure it out, they all do.

1:13:12

It's like sometimes we just don't give them

1:13:14

the opportunity to be with

1:13:16

them a whole day and have to like change diapers,

1:13:19

and it will it will probably

1:13:21

look very different than the way that you do things,

1:13:24

but they will be you will be their way,

1:13:26

you know. And it's and I feel that sometimes

1:13:28

we even don't even allow that to

1:13:30

happen. Help.

1:13:33

It's like the available because we think

1:13:35

that we are the only ones to know how to

1:13:37

do the mothering and uh

1:13:40

and that is uh sometimes

1:13:42

not great for us because we just don't have time.

1:13:44

And sometimes we honestly don't have all the answers

1:13:47

either. We need to, you know, ask

1:13:49

around and be like what do you think how

1:13:51

would you handle that? And

1:13:54

just getting all the help that you can get. I

1:13:57

really love that a lot. It's so cool.

1:14:00

It's nice too, and I think it's

1:14:02

nice to your point to be able to just

1:14:06

express it. It's

1:14:08

really neat. Yeah,

1:14:13

totally. Communication

1:14:15

is key. I feel that women

1:14:18

don't communicate enough on like what's really

1:14:20

happening sometimes then

1:14:22

that just creates a lot of resentment and

1:14:25

like internal angers

1:14:28

and things that we hold onto instead of just

1:14:30

saying, like what really works and what doesn't work,

1:14:32

And that's sometimes it's like an

1:14:34

easy fix when you just communicate how

1:14:36

important our things are to us here

1:14:41

here. Thank you so much. This has been

1:14:43

so fun. You're welcome. Thank

1:14:45

you so much for having me. It

1:14:49

was so fun to chat and to talk

1:14:51

about skin care and talk about so many things.

1:14:53

I feel we covered a wide range of topics

1:14:56

here. This

1:15:00

show is executive produced by me, Sophia

1:15:03

Bush, and sim Sarna. Our

1:15:05

associate producer is Cate Linlee. Our

1:15:08

editor is Josh Wendish, and our

1:15:10

music was written by Jack Garrett and produced

1:15:12

by Mark Foster. This show is

1:15:14

brought to you by Cambrilliant Anatomy

1:15:18

M M

1:15:20

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