Fiction writers are accustomed to seeing the layers of motivation and conflict that drive the plots around us. In this special episode of the World BEYOND War podcast, we welcome two novelists, Vanessa Veselka ("The Great Offshore Grounds", "Zazen") and Rivera Sun ("The Way Between", "The Dandelion Insurrection") who each have unique backgrounds in activism and organizing. We talk about the hero's journey, the way protest actions can change our lives, labor unions, anger, nonviolence and sexual violence, leadership, Sharon Blackie, Leo Tolstoy and the problem of conquest activism. Hosted by Marc Eliot Stein. Musical excerpt: "Wonderous Stories" by Yes.