0:03

From the opinion pages of The Wall

0:05

Street Journal, this is Potomac Watch. Columbia

0:09

University goes to hybrid learning, letting

0:11

students be virtually in class for

0:13

the rest of the semester after

0:16

the school's leadership clears a

0:19

Gaza protest encampment with

0:21

more than 100 arrests but fails to prevent

0:23

it from reforming. Welcome

0:25

I'm Kyle Peterson with The Wall Street Journal.

0:28

We are joined today by

0:30

my colleagues, editorial board member

0:32

Colin Levy and columnist Kim

0:34

Strossall. Dozens of tents

0:36

last week occupied a green space

0:38

outside of Columbia's main library in

0:40

New York City, an area that

0:42

protesters had dubbed the Gaza Solidarity

0:45

Encampment. But finally, the

0:47

president of Columbia University, Manoush Shafiq, called

0:49

in the NYPD. Here is part of

0:51

what she said, we work hard to

0:53

balance the rights of students to express

0:55

political views with the need to protect

0:57

other students from rhetoric that amounts

1:00

to harassment and discrimination. We

1:02

updated our protest policy to allow demonstrations

1:04

on very short notice and in prime

1:06

locations in the middle of campus while

1:09

still allowing students to get to class

1:11

and labs and libraries to operate. The

1:14

current encampment violates all of the

1:16

new policies, severely disrupts campus life

1:19

and creates a harassing and intimidating

1:21

environment for our many students. Colin,

1:24

the response to that though was a clearing

1:26

of this encampment, more than 100 arrested,

1:29

but apparently no lack of ability

1:31

for protesters to reform then. On

1:33

Monday, the president said that all

1:36

classes would be remote and

1:38

the provost that on Monday afternoon evening

1:40

said that students would be allowed to

1:42

dial into classes if they like through

1:44

the end of the semester, which is

1:46

almost here. So what is

1:48

going on? I see some arrests recently at

1:51

Yale and at New York University. Right,

1:53

Kyle. And I think it's really a mess and

1:55

I think it's pretty clear that Columbia and many

1:57

of these other universities too are sort of building.

2:00

building the plane while they're flying it,

2:02

adjusting their protest policies, trying to allow

2:04

their students to express themselves. But this

2:06

has clearly gotten out of hand and just sort of

2:08

gotten to where they can't control it. And

2:11

I think that's clearly the reason that they've gone to this

2:13

hybrid remote learning policy. But

2:15

in many ways, I think that is

2:18

an indication and a message to all of

2:20

the protesters and to the students that they're

2:22

not really in control. And I think

2:24

that message is the dangerous

2:26

one, a destabilizing one, especially

2:29

for Jewish students who are finding themselves

2:31

walking across campus where they're supposed to.

2:33

This is supposed to be the definition

2:35

of a safe space on

2:37

an Ivy University campus, finding

2:40

themselves harassed and greeted with

2:42

signs that are endorsing Intifada,

2:44

suggesting that any of the

2:46

Israeli counterprotesters should be

2:48

Hamas's next targets and

2:51

any number of other intimidating and

2:53

harassing actions that are happening on

2:55

campus now that are really well

2:58

beyond the normal boundaries of free

3:00

speech. I think we love to talk about on

3:03

campus the right to disagree

3:05

without being disagreeable and certainly

3:07

civil discourse and academic freedom. These

3:10

are incredibly important values on

3:12

college campuses like Columbia, but that's really

3:15

not what we're talking about here. This

3:17

is crossed into another category. That does

3:19

seem to be a difference with a

3:21

long history of campus protests. What we're

3:23

seeing now includes antisemitism on

3:25

display. There's one video

3:28

circulating where protesters are forming a

3:30

human chain and saying, we're going

3:32

to start taking steps forward to

3:34

push the quote unquote Zionists who

3:37

have entered this protest area to

3:39

push them out of that area.

3:42

There is a letter from an Orthodox

3:44

rabbi at Columbia saying, what we

3:46

are witnessing in and around campus is

3:48

terrible and tragic. It pains

3:50

me deeply to say that I would

3:53

strongly recommend you return home as soon

3:55

as possible and remain home until the

3:57

reality in and around campus has dramatically

4:00

improved. And that is

4:02

an astounding thing, Kim, to hear from

4:04

a rabbi who is at an Ivy

4:06

League institution and advising these students

4:09

that it's not safe potentially for them to

4:11

be on campus. This is really

4:13

important because I think words matter. And

4:15

one thing that's frustrating about those who

4:17

are engaged in these demonstrations

4:19

and also those that are supporting them

4:21

is they keep saying, well, these are

4:24

peaceful protests. Okay, fine.

4:26

We don't necessarily so far have

4:28

students surrounding Jews in a mob

4:31

and beating on them. But

4:33

harassment also should not be tolerated.

4:36

That's clearly going on here. There

4:38

are anti-Semitic chants going on. Jews

4:41

should be killed. Go back to

4:43

Poland. These kids and all kids

4:45

at Columbia need to walk through

4:47

some of these central areas to

4:49

get to their classes. They feel

4:51

intimidated and bullied if they try

4:53

to walk through because they're facing

4:55

this. And so in some ways,

4:58

these guys have already won, like to

5:00

the extent that they are actually shutting

5:02

down classes. I mean, on Monday, Columbia

5:04

was virtual. These kids aren't

5:06

getting an education either. That's not a

5:09

peaceful protest in my mind, because it

5:11

does engage in harassment. And because it's

5:13

also denying all the other

5:15

students on the campus their

5:18

ability to partake in what

5:20

that university exists to provide, which

5:22

is an education. The fact that

5:25

we are now going to have some

5:27

sort of hybrid situation, that's just unacceptable.

5:29

This shouldn't be happening at all. And

5:31

it's a recognition that the university is

5:34

not handling this. And as

5:36

Colin said, it's also dangerous as well,

5:38

too, because it's the latest outward

5:41

boundary of what these universities are

5:43

agreeing to and tolerating. And it's

5:46

been building for a long time.

5:48

And it risks

5:50

going from harassment and

5:53

impinging on other people's rights to

5:56

learn to violence at some point,

5:58

especially at all these universities. do

6:00

not start taking a hard line. Another example

6:02

I would cite is a video that circulated,

6:04

I think, last week of

6:06

a protester near Columbia University yelling,

6:09

we are all Hamas and

6:11

long live Hamas. And

6:13

Colin, what do you make of the First

6:16

Amendment argument that you're hearing from these protesters?

6:18

I mean, to my mind, that's a good

6:20

example of why it doesn't apply. There is

6:23

a right to protest and there is a

6:25

right to free speech in the United States

6:27

of America. But if you're

6:29

disrupting the operations of Columbia University, to

6:32

my mind, Columbia University is within its

6:34

rights and maybe in its responsibilities to

6:36

tell you to go. And if you

6:39

don't go to call the cops. No,

6:41

that's absolutely right. Look, the basic rule, Kyle,

6:44

is that the First Amendment does not

6:46

apply on private property to actions

6:48

taken by private entities. And

6:51

you know, a university is not just

6:53

a platform for speech, but it has

6:55

its own First Amendment rights and its

6:57

own rights to edit the message that

7:00

it sends to students. As a general

7:02

matter, a private university can make

7:04

any decisions it really wants to about

7:06

what happens on its property. There's no

7:08

constitutional right for someone to march into

7:10

my front yard and have a protest

7:12

there. You know, we saw that

7:15

illustrated a few weeks ago when a number of anti-Israel

7:17

protesters decided to hold a protest

7:19

on the front steps of Berkeley Law

7:21

School Dean Erwin Chemerinsky. And he came

7:23

out and said, you're in a guest in our

7:25

home and please stop. And he said

7:28

to the protesters, I'm as much for free speech

7:30

as all the rest of you, but our

7:32

home is not a forum for free speech.

7:34

And something interesting too is that

7:37

he said after that incident and

7:39

the questions about the anti-Semitism that

7:42

motivated it, you know, he said

7:44

that even if the dinner were being held

7:46

at the law school building, there would still

7:48

not be a First Amendment right to hold

7:50

a disruptive protest there. And I think that's a key

7:52

point that we need to talk about. You know, the

7:54

Columbia protesters are objecting that any

7:56

restrictions put on their encampment or on their

7:59

behavior. to an infringement of

8:01

their free speech rights, but that's actually not

8:03

the case as a constitutional matter. It's the

8:05

right of Columbia not to have to host

8:08

disruptive and violent speech that it doesn't agree with. That

8:10

comes within its private property rights on campus.

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8:43

back. Kim, how do you explain

8:45

the lack of follow through here

8:48

by the administration? There's some news

8:50

stories suggesting that students who had

8:52

been suspended, those suspensions have already

8:54

been lifted. Is it just the

8:56

fact that the faculty is full

8:58

of lefties who remember the 1960s

9:01

protests as the good times and

9:03

think that they stopped the Vietnam

9:05

War? Is that enough to explain

9:07

why you have a university president

9:09

who is giving in to what

9:11

amounts to the heckler's veto and

9:13

saying, we are gonna not

9:15

have students in our classrooms through the rest

9:18

of the semester because we can't

9:20

get this protest under control? Yes, in

9:22

a way you have two levels of

9:24

intimidation here. You have the students

9:26

and protesters and harassers who are

9:29

out on the campus making life

9:31

miserable for other students. But you

9:33

also have a faculty that has

9:35

been actively engaging in intimidation against,

9:37

for instance, Columbia's president. It was

9:39

really notable before she went in,

9:41

and all of this kind of

9:43

kicked off, obviously, last week when

9:45

she went in to testify in

9:47

front of Congress and President Sheffique,

9:49

the head of Columbia University beforehand,

9:51

there was a faculty letter that

9:53

was sent to her signed by

9:55

23 full faculty members

9:57

saying that by going to this,

10:00

The hearing she was getting into the

10:02

political theater of a new Mccarthyism. Right

10:04

now as we speak the University

10:06

Senate at Columbia which by the

10:08

way as a non binding organization

10:10

it doesn't really have any authority

10:12

is made up of faculty and

10:14

student and administrators but they are

10:16

of preparing to pass a resolution

10:18

of sensor. Or the fact

10:21

that she spoke to Congress has

10:23

admitted that Columbia had not handle

10:25

the protests that had popped up

10:27

since October Seventh. Well, and that

10:29

Chef sees a favorable things about

10:31

protecting you students and condemning anti

10:33

semitism. This apparently was something unacceptable

10:35

to the University senate which now

10:37

want to go after her. so

10:40

you have that. I think the

10:42

other problem you have in this

10:44

gets to the question about suspensions

10:46

is it. As. I mentioned before,

10:48

this is one of the results of

10:50

a campus culture that has been. Growing.

10:53

increasingly. Problematic for years,

10:55

mostly because university administrators have

10:58

been paul are aiding identity

11:00

and left wing politics and

11:02

protests. You. Can add in

11:04

all kinds of other things: grade

11:07

inflation, the general acceptance of student

11:09

groups showing up and harassing and

11:11

canceling speakers who might come to

11:13

the university and say things they

11:16

don't like. By. The way I would just

11:18

put that in the context of their own. Free.

11:20

Speech demands are hit now, which does

11:22

show a certain level of hypocrisy. There's

11:24

never been any consequences to this really,

11:27

and I think it was great that

11:29

Columbia had the police come in and

11:31

deal with this with those arrest. But.

11:33

a number of students who were there

11:36

after multiple warnings they were suspended and

11:38

now as you say that's been diluted

11:40

a my own view is that if

11:43

you have been issued multiple warnings you're

11:45

continuing to defy the administration what needs

11:47

to happen here at some of these

11:50

universities is it your out your expelled

11:52

you're done and you're not just done

11:54

this you're you're done for your time

11:56

at that university because you flagrantly violated

11:59

the rules in a way that

12:01

made other students feel unsafe. There has

12:03

to be some consequences for some of

12:05

these students. Universities, yes,

12:08

we like the idea of free expression, etc.

12:11

But rules are rules. Until

12:14

the universities start following up

12:17

on enforcing those rules, the students

12:19

are going to think there really are no

12:21

consequences for doing anything. But another piece

12:23

of the dynamic perhaps is that students

12:26

are now thought of as customers. And

12:28

at some of these institutions, they are

12:30

paying five figures or six figures in

12:32

tuition over the course of four years.

12:35

And that gets to another point that

12:37

Kim made, which is grade inflation. Don't

12:40

we have finals coming up? Colum, the

12:42

other thing I keep thinking of is

12:44

if you are spending your days at

12:46

Columbia University sitting in a tent in

12:48

the Gaza encampment, you are probably not

12:51

going to your classes. Are you passing

12:53

your classes? Are you flunking out of

12:55

your classes? And I would

12:57

point to a couple of stories at

12:59

similar institutions. This is a report from

13:01

the Harvard Crimson last year. It

13:04

says that Harvard College grades have risen significantly

13:06

in the past 20 years for

13:08

a newly released report presented at

13:10

a faculty arts and science meeting.

13:13

It says that the percentage of A

13:15

range grades given to college students in

13:18

2020, 2021 academic year was 79% compared to 60%

13:20

a decade earlier. And

13:26

there's a similar story in the Yale Daily

13:28

News last year. Yale College's mean

13:30

GPA was 3.7 for the 2022-2023 academic year.

13:37

And 78.9% of grades given to students were As or A minuses. Colin,

13:43

I know that you have to be a good student

13:45

and a hard worker to get into an institution like

13:47

Harvard and Yale and Columbia. On

13:49

the other hand, the idea that 79% of

13:53

grades at institutions like that are

13:55

As, makes me wonder how hard

13:57

are these students really being pushed

13:59

particularly. We have. many of them are

14:01

spending all this time protesting. absolutely counts.

14:03

When I saw that story, I honestly

14:05

thought of my own children. I have

14:08

middle schoolers who are up sometimes until

14:10

midnight doing their homework. So and watching

14:12

these college students at our finest Ivy

14:14

universities are spending their time and sense

14:16

and forming human scenes to harass to

14:18

his students on campus. And it really

14:20

did beg the question of don't they

14:22

have enough a thesis to write a

14:24

sudden I just I don't want to

14:26

make light of as I do on

14:28

a loop. Back though I'm Tim's point

14:30

about what's been happening at the faculty

14:33

to because I think it's such an

14:35

important one that these are there has

14:37

been for many decades, In a with

14:39

in these in or Near Eastern

14:41

Studies departments and academic celebration of

14:44

leftists revolution and the protest culture.

14:46

And you join. That was the

14:48

dogma on anti imperialism. And it's

14:50

springtime on campus. and it's. Just

14:52

a creates what is really

14:54

a tinderbox for these sorts

14:56

of protests. That we're seeing now

14:59

to spiral out of control and with

15:01

the students knowledge that they have their

15:03

professors implicit blessing. so it's almost as

15:06

though they see what they're doing as

15:08

a natural extension of what they've learned

15:10

in the classroom and and I I

15:12

think they feel empowered by it, and

15:15

I'm not sure that they understand the

15:17

true damage that they're doing to. The

15:19

community that they're supposedly such an important

15:21

part of Eggs. I will be right

15:23

back after one more break your money

15:25

every single explore what you need to

15:28

know to become a homeowner and how

15:30

to sustain your home by learning ways

15:32

to manage the costs from unexpected expenses

15:34

were basically always have a state of

15:36

such as always to be your eyes

15:38

open for anything with of me going

15:40

along with your houses accomplice isn't that

15:42

as a lot of have some components

15:44

in a close as opposed to getting

15:46

older the wearing out you can get

15:48

early access to our series. Buying a

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home and keeping it on

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Wsj subscribers. Don't.

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Forget you can reach the latest episode

16:00

of Potomac Watch any time at. Just

16:02

ask your smart speaker Play the opinion

16:05

The Potomac Watch Podcast. From

16:09

the opinion pages of The Wall Street

16:11

Journal, this is. Nick was. Welcome

16:15

Back and what is happening on Columbia's

16:18

campuses? Not staying on Columbia's campus, it

16:20

is also becoming a political story, so

16:22

let's listen to responses from a couple

16:25

of actors in the political arena. First

16:27

year as President Joe Biden. I've

16:30

been them as many protests were

16:32

set up for more than ours

16:34

was in that those who don't

16:36

understand what's going on with the

16:38

Palestinians and here is New York

16:41

Governor Kathy Hope Little I now

16:43

many students not feeling safe. In

16:53

search. Of.

17:07

Students as they're. Afraid of

17:10

what. They don't

17:12

deserve. they deserve neither.

17:14

Embark recent discrimination has.

17:16

Fired by like. Kim.

17:19

What do you make of those responses?

17:21

A does raise the question. what are

17:24

the politicians going to do about it?

17:26

The Education Department certainly has at Columbia

17:28

University easier and Kathy oak always someone

17:30

who's responsible for enforcing those laws that

17:33

she cited Human Rights laws and so

17:35

forth in the State of New York.

17:37

And listen to both of those statements.

17:40

It's very, very telling. Yes,

17:42

both of those politicians and i

17:44

would note democratic politicians began by

17:46

condemning any anti semitism the in

17:48

joe biden case he felt the

17:50

need to say i also condemn

17:52

those who don't understand what's going

17:54

on with the palestinians and kathy

17:56

whole gold said you know we

17:58

also wanted to fat the rights

18:00

of free speech. This is where

18:02

they are. I mean, it should not

18:05

be a difficult call, by the way,

18:07

this should not be difficult. You condemn

18:09

what's going on. You condemn the idea

18:11

that there is a threatening atmosphere on

18:13

these campuses. You condemn that kids are

18:15

not able to get to their class.

18:17

You condemn the problem with law and

18:20

order. That should be enough for the

18:22

situation that exists at the moment. But

18:24

the rock in the hard place for

18:26

these people is that they have a

18:28

left that is ever more engaged in

18:31

this activism and the protests

18:33

and the pro-Palestinian cause. And

18:35

they want a ceasefire in

18:37

Israel. And Joe Biden

18:39

is worried about his presidential election

18:41

and who's going to vote and

18:43

how they're going to vote in

18:45

Michigan. And that is muddying the

18:47

clarity of this situation. This should

18:49

be a very straightforward proposition for

18:51

these politicians. That's certainly the case

18:54

for Republicans at the moment who

18:56

are saying, this is inappropriate. This

18:58

is not to be tolerated. But

19:00

you have Democrats that keep trying to slither

19:02

through the middle here and not

19:05

upset those who are engaged in

19:07

this kind of behavior because they're

19:09

worried about their left and elections.

19:12

But it seems to me that the more

19:14

they try to get out of answering these

19:17

questions or try to take both sides, the

19:19

more that it repels some of these voters

19:22

in the middle who they also need. I

19:24

mean, think about Joe Biden. He's trying to

19:27

satisfy pro-Palestine constituencies

19:30

in Michigan. And he's at the

19:32

same time alienating other constituencies in

19:35

Michigan and many other states. So

19:37

Colin, from the perspective of campus,

19:39

it seems to me that the

19:41

president of Columbia, the president of

19:43

Yale, where there were recently 50

19:45

student protesters arrested on Monday, they're

19:48

trying to get through the end

19:50

of the spring semester, hoping things maybe will

19:52

calm down when we get to the summer

19:55

months. Students disperse, they go to jobs and

19:57

internships, they go back home. But politicians,

20:00

people like Joe Biden, don't necessarily have

20:02

that out because this is going to

20:04

be an issue. It seems to me

20:06

going into the summer and going into

20:08

the presidential election. Absolutely. I

20:10

think it's really troubling to hear

20:12

all of these politicians without the

20:14

courage of moral conviction on a

20:17

really basic level. These are not

20:19

pure speech considerations that we're talking

20:21

about, the behavior and the violence that we're

20:23

seeing as the protesters at Columbia,

20:25

certainly that we've seen at Harvard

20:27

and other places. It was very

20:29

transparently crossed the line into

20:31

threats and intimidation of other students. And

20:33

I don't think we or any politician

20:35

of either party should have any qualms about saying

20:38

that students who are harassing and intimidating

20:40

their classmates are encouraging anti-Semitic

20:42

behavior or creating an

20:44

environment that hovers around the possibility of

20:47

violence have crossed that line. I

20:49

think we have to keep emphasizing

20:51

that in this discussion about free

20:53

speech, that the environment of an imminent

20:56

threat is not at all what free

20:58

speech on campus is supposed

21:00

to be. It's supposed to be to

21:02

have civil discussions, to explore ideas and

21:04

argue and maybe even argue

21:06

with people over the strength of their reasoning.

21:08

But where we are now is nowhere near

21:10

that. Kim, we'll give you the last word,

21:13

but what would be your advice to someone

21:15

sitting in the president's office at one of

21:17

these Ivy League institutions if

21:19

they're facing a protest like this? Take

21:22

a firm stand because here's the thing.

21:24

If you step back and you look

21:26

at this more broadly, you

21:29

have faculty pressing these administrators.

21:31

You have the demonstrators pressing

21:33

these presidents and administrators. But

21:36

you've got trustees in some cases have

21:38

had their back when they have stood

21:41

up. That's been the case so far,

21:43

at least at Columbia. You have donors

21:45

who so far, it's been one direction.

21:47

The witnessing of all of this on

21:50

campus has really inspired a lot of

21:52

chagrin among donors, many prominent ones

21:55

who are cutting their ties with

21:57

universities. You have parents who

21:59

are. Concerned about. What?

22:02

Actually, these universities stamp or anymore and

22:04

western hot. there is any value in

22:07

spending ninety thousand dollars a year to

22:09

send your kid to an Ivy league

22:11

university. If this is the surface that

22:13

they're gonna go into any indoctrination they're

22:15

going to go into, and then add

22:17

to that the fact that they can't

22:19

even get to their classes. There's been

22:21

a lot of growing concern among parents,

22:24

so there's an enormous community out there

22:26

that thinks this is the wrong thing

22:28

to do So. Cake. A farm

22:30

line also because that would send the message

22:32

to those engaged in this that they need

22:34

to stop. right? Now this. Wandering.

22:37

Down the middle and trying to please

22:39

both sides and being a little mealy

22:41

mouthed on this is only encouraging this

22:43

to grow. I mean what I watched

22:45

this begin or would last week The

22:47

first thing that I thought his oh

22:49

my gosh, this is going to become

22:52

a thing It felt very much like

22:54

the Blm protests from Twenty Twenty. Which.

22:56

Only grew and spread in part

22:59

because. There. Were too few city

23:01

administrators who are willing to deal with

23:03

those situations at the time, and we

23:05

know where that left. The summer of

23:07

Love in Seattle and a lot of

23:09

problems for a lot of cities universities

23:11

are facing the same situation if they

23:13

don't try to take a harder line

23:15

right now and shut this down. To

23:17

keep him and co and vague you

23:19

all for listening, you can email us

23:22

at Peter Be Podcast at Wsj. Doctor.

23:24

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23:28

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