0:00

Fuck the game! All

0:09

right, let's do this. How are you? What the

0:12

fuckers? What the fuck, buddies? What the fuck, nicks?

0:14

What's happening? I'm Mark

0:16

Maron. This is my podcast, WTF. Welcome

0:18

to it. How's it going? Pretty

0:21

exciting show today. Pretty

0:24

fucking exciting. Sorry, kids, but

0:27

it's fucking exciting. You know, sometimes,

0:29

I don't know what to tell you, sometimes,

0:31

and a lot lately, these

0:33

shows have just been great. They've been

0:36

funny, they've been engaged, they've been exciting

0:38

for me. I imagine they're fun to

0:40

listen to, but today, my friends, is

0:43

an all-timer. Yep, this is

0:45

one of those shows that just is,

0:48

it's all there, man. It's all there.

0:51

And my guest today is John

0:54

Oliver, okay? Now, John, I've

0:56

known John a while. He

0:59

had me on his show, The John Oliver

1:01

Presents, or whatever it was on Comedy Central.

1:03

I can't remember exactly when we met, but

1:05

he was on episode 298.

1:08

That's a long time ago. And I

1:11

don't know, we just get along, we get

1:13

a kick out of each other. And this

1:15

is when some kind of magic happens on

1:18

this show. But John and I, not

1:20

only are we friends, and we don't see each other

1:22

that much, but he also wrote the

1:24

forward to our book, Waiting for the Punch. And

1:27

now, you know, he's got the great show last

1:31

week tonight, starring John Oliver.

1:33

There's a new season starting

1:35

up this month. But there's

1:37

something about when we

1:39

get together, and I don't know

1:41

how often you listen to this

1:44

show, but sometimes, you know, there's

1:46

certain comics usually, or people that understand

1:49

me. Most of the time, they know

1:51

me a bit, but sometimes it happens with just

1:53

regular guests who just get the

1:56

vibe. They get me, and

1:58

they can kind of see through me. in

2:00

terms of how

2:03

sometimes I can be a little pokey and

2:05

a little mild ball

2:08

busting going on, some slight bullying

2:11

occasionally. But ultimately

2:13

it's fairly, it's not deep, it's

2:16

just sometimes how I communicate, slightly

2:19

defensive, not necessarily

2:21

aggravated, but funny

2:23

sometimes most of the time.

2:26

And John is just one of these guys

2:28

who makes me laugh to no end, yet

2:31

he also gets me

2:33

precisely. And I think I

2:36

get him pretty well. We

2:38

do come from different cultures really,

2:41

but there's just something about the pace. When you

2:43

hang out with John, he operates

2:45

at a very fast pace and

2:47

it's kind of like a ride. And my brain

2:50

operates at a very fast pace, but I'll adapt

2:52

to whoever's in the room here. And

2:55

we just go and we just went.

2:57

And this is just one of those episodes that

3:00

I think you're gonna enjoy, because we

3:02

did. God damn, we

3:04

had a good time. There's been some

3:06

real bangers, as some

3:09

people say lately, Giamatti, boom,

3:11

Bobby Lee, wow. And

3:14

this one, it is really what

3:16

we used to do all the time

3:18

here on WTF. This was really the

3:20

heart of how this

3:22

show evolved and found

3:25

its groove was me talking to

3:27

my peers. And many

3:29

of them, I haven't talked to in

3:31

years because we had this one guest, one

3:34

time, occasionally a short one after

3:36

that policy. But now it's

3:38

been over a decade for some of

3:40

these people. And a lot

3:42

has happened in their lives, but the

3:44

fundamental dynamic remains. I think

3:46

I've gotten a little more grounded

3:49

at ease, less

3:52

aggravated, and I think

3:54

I'm a little more fun. So

3:57

these few episodes that are

3:59

happening. recently with people that have been

4:01

on the past and people who I like Bobby

4:03

I see Bobby Lee all the time and

4:06

Paul I don't know how that happened. It just was

4:08

one of those things and there's more coming up. It's

4:10

it's happening I think it's because I

4:13

needed more than ever to talk

4:15

to people and to engage like this.

4:17

Maybe you do too I'm

4:20

in Portland, Maine at the State Theatre on

4:22

Thursday March 7th Medford, Massachusetts At

4:25

the Chevalier Theatre on Friday March 8th

4:27

Providence, Rhode Island at the Strand Theatre

4:29

on Saturday March 9th Tarrytown,

4:31

New York at the Tarrytown Music

4:34

Hall on Sunday, March 10th Atlanta,

4:36

Georgia I'm at the Buckhead Theatre

4:38

on Friday March 2nd We

4:41

also added a date. I don't even think it's

4:43

up on the Site. Yeah,

4:45

I got to get it up there. I'm

4:47

gonna be at the tree fourth festival's comedy

4:50

vertical Saturday March 23rd

4:53

the day after Atlanta in

4:55

Boise, Idaho. I'll have that up on the

4:57

site Promptly might even be

4:59

there by now But I just want to make sure you

5:01

knew right now because it just

5:03

happened the tree fort music festival's comedy vertical

5:06

Comedy fort I guess it's called you

5:09

can go to treefort

5:12

music fest comm

5:15

and I'm gonna be there I'm gonna

5:17

be I I don't know that I've

5:19

ever performed I don't think I've performed

5:21

in Idaho since I did Moscow, Idaho.

5:23

Maybe I did it with Merman and

5:26

Kindler years ago, but I'm kind of

5:28

excited about it looks like a pretty

5:30

fun festival I'll be in Madison, Wisconsin

5:32

at the Barrymore Theatre on Wednesday April

5:34

3rd Milwaukee, Wisconsin at

5:37

the Turner Hall Ballroom on Thursday

5:39

April 4th Chicago at the Vic

5:41

theater on Friday April 5th in

5:43

Minneapolis at the Pantages Theatre on

5:45

Saturday April 6th all those dates

5:47

Madison, Milwaukee Chicago, Minneapolis Allie

5:50

Mokovsky will be joining me as my

5:52

feature Austin Texas at the Paramount Theatre

5:54

on Thursday April 18th as part of

5:57

the moon tower Comedy festival go to

5:59

WTF pod.com Yes, yes. So

6:04

when was the last time I talked to you guys? Monday?

6:08

San Francisco. That's right. The

6:10

day after the Castro, before I had my

6:12

McCabe and Mrs. Miller screening at the Roxy

6:14

Theater, which was great, interesting,

6:17

and kind of an amazing

6:19

new experience to watch it on a 35 millimeter

6:22

print provided by my

6:25

pal Peter Conheim. And

6:27

that went very well. It's

6:30

just always exciting to watch that movie and

6:32

realize it's interesting. When you see

6:34

a movie like dozens of times and you

6:37

think you know it, you return

6:39

to it, and it's always new if

6:41

it's a great movie. And that thing, I don't

6:44

know, it's just got a lot of depth for me.

6:46

I don't know how it affects others, but that went

6:48

well. But that day, Sunday,

6:50

me and my buddy, Jack

6:52

Boulware, the writer, we

6:55

have been friends for years. He's been

6:57

at both of my weddings. We've had ups and downs.

6:59

We don't talk to each other much, not as much

7:01

as we used to, and sometimes not for long periods

7:03

of time. But he's up in

7:05

San Francisco. We're in the Bay Area. He was for years.

7:07

He's kind of moved a little out of there. But he

7:09

wanted to do a piece on us

7:12

going back to the early 90s

7:14

when I lived in San Francisco for a

7:17

couple years and just kind of moved through

7:19

the city visiting the places that we used

7:22

to hang out. And

7:24

it was just a great day. This is an

7:27

amazing thing about certain friendships, or

7:29

maybe it's about all friendships. It is

7:31

for me that when you

7:33

have good friends, you probably only have a couple.

7:36

And when you don't live in the same city, generally

7:39

what I do, not unlike what I do

7:41

here is you put aside a half

7:44

a day or a few

7:46

hours to just kind of wait

7:49

it out and talk. Just

7:51

move through the world and talk,

7:53

reconnect, and get into a groove

7:55

like anything else, like a comedy

7:57

set, anything that you're sort

7:59

of into. And it happened at

8:01

the Castro, at the theater, where

8:03

it started off like I felt

8:06

it was me getting my footing. And

8:08

then once I get into the

8:11

groove, it becomes effortless. And good

8:13

friendships are sort of like that. So me and Jack set

8:15

out in the middle of this fucking, the

8:18

winds in San

8:20

Francisco were crazy. And

8:23

we just started doing this stuff, going through

8:25

the areas we used to do, and kind

8:27

of having these moments of pulling

8:29

together or little triggers of our

8:32

past, our separate past, our combined

8:34

past. But I met him back

8:36

in, geez, it must have been

8:38

92. And

8:42

there was a comedy scene in San

8:44

Francisco. I think we met at the

8:46

improv downtown that's long gone. And

8:48

I believe the first time we hung out, we went to

8:51

the Mad Dog and the Fog on Lower Hate, and

8:53

I'd been trying to stay sober. And

8:56

it was kind of a monumental day. He

8:58

was like, you want a beer? And he

9:00

said to me, he said, I just was

9:02

like, ah, I don't know. And

9:05

I just remember the pint. I

9:07

think it was that Red

9:09

Hook, that Red Hook Ale.

9:12

That still exists. It was before the

9:14

IPAs, before the craft beers. It was

9:16

like maybe the first one, Red Hook

9:18

Ale, or a big bass, a big

9:20

bass and a pint glass. And

9:23

I just drank it and I told him I hadn't been drinking.

9:25

And it's always an awkward position to put people in. But

9:28

that just started the friendship. And we went

9:30

to all the old places that used to

9:32

be sort of the regular haunts. Some of

9:35

the old comedy clubs we drove by, the

9:37

Lower Hate, we spent a good amount of

9:39

time down there, kind of reminiscing

9:41

about Naked Eye, the video store. And I used

9:43

to make the rounds. I don't know what you

9:45

people do in your life. Jack had

9:47

a job. He was working at the Nose Magazine.

9:49

He was also a writer for SF Weekly. And

9:52

later he ran the Litquake with some other people.

9:55

But as a comic, if I lived in a

9:57

city, I would just find some places where I

9:59

could park myself. for at least an

10:01

hour or two a day. I'd rather there

10:03

be a person there, but sometimes just

10:05

be a coffee shop and I'd talk to whoever was

10:07

around, but there was naked eye. This video store, this

10:10

guy named Steve used to run. There was a couple

10:12

of guys that worked there and I'd just go in

10:14

there for like an hour or two and just hang

10:16

out. Talk about movies. You

10:19

got a record store, go to the record

10:21

store, hang out. Talk about records. Bookstore, you

10:23

know, a bookstore, hang out. Talk

10:25

about books. See who comes in. What's

10:28

happening? Got a coffee shop, hang out.

10:31

That's the life. That's been the life in

10:33

every city I've lived in. So Jack and

10:35

I were kind of moving through that. We

10:37

were trying to identify where stuff was and

10:40

then like I had to go to

10:42

the bathroom. He parked his car and I

10:44

ran into this, I think it's called the

10:46

International Cafe and there was this 10-piece jazz

10:48

band in this little coffee shop. It was

10:50

pretty big, but you know a

10:52

10-piece jazz band anywhere, still a 10-piece jazz band.

10:54

It was at least 10 pieces and

10:56

if they were just going at it and

10:59

it was like, oh my god, I ran

11:01

out there and I got Jack out of the car.

11:03

I'm like, dude, this is happening. This is happening in

11:05

real time. This is life. This is art. This is

11:07

art in motion. This is immediate, man. We went

11:10

in, got Jacked up on a mocha. He

11:12

did. I just had regular cup of coffee,

11:14

but that was the way San

11:16

Francisco was, man. We always talk

11:18

about this one night and you know there's

11:21

some nights where you just ride

11:23

a booze buzz just right and there

11:26

was this night where me and Jack, it

11:28

was years ago, we started in the mission

11:30

at a Mexican restaurant, Margaritas. Then we walk

11:32

around the corner and we just hear this

11:35

music coming out of a place down the

11:37

mission, just power rock and

11:39

we went in there, was packed and just hang

11:41

out there for like a half an hour, kind

11:44

of bathed in the rock

11:46

music and then we kind

11:48

of kept moving. Jack had some sort

11:50

of invite to a strip club

11:52

that was opening. We're not

11:55

really strip club guys, but it sounded like

11:57

a scene and it was just completely not

11:59

built yet. club with just dozens

12:01

and dozens of people and

12:03

just naked women walking around.

12:06

And then we went, we ended up at

12:08

Tosca having some cocktails and it was just

12:11

this beautiful arc of an evening. Sometimes those

12:13

nights where, you know, the balance of booze

12:15

or blow or whatever together is just right.

12:17

But that was just a booze thing. But

12:20

so this day that we hung out in

12:22

San Francisco started to feel like that, man.

12:24

We, you know, we get into the international

12:26

cafe, there's jazz going, and then we just

12:29

take a walk. I go into

12:31

the Life Cafe to pick up my patchouli thick.

12:33

We kind of look at like where the spaghetti

12:35

Western used to be, where they had the biscuits

12:37

and gravy. Kate's had the pancakes, the Horseshoe Cafe

12:39

where you could get pints of coffee and all

12:42

these places that had brown sugar back in the

12:44

day for the coffee. And they all had those

12:46

oat pucks. If you're from San Francisco, you visited

12:48

there this year, all the coffee shops had these

12:50

tightly wrapped oat pucks, these oat cakes that you

12:52

could eat. So we just kind of wandered around

12:55

the lower hate. We took a ride up to

12:57

the upper hate. We took a ride down to

12:59

the Mission, tracked down my old house,

13:01

my old apartment on South Van Ness. But

13:04

man, what a great day.

13:06

And we just spent like from 1 o'clock

13:08

to 8 o'clock until we got to the

13:10

movie, just talking, reminiscing, doing

13:13

the thing, reflecting. And

13:15

it was in this horrendous monsoon-like

13:18

weather. But this

13:20

is just another point to this conversation

13:22

is that what is happening environmentally, climate-wise,

13:25

is something we'd all knew was coming.

13:27

It wasn't a surprise. And now that

13:29

it's here, we knew that we

13:32

maybe could have done something about it, but not

13:34

necessarily as individuals. We did the best we could,

13:36

maybe, some of us, I don't know. But now

13:38

it's here, and there's really nothing to do but

13:41

adapt and hope it doesn't get worse. But

13:43

this weather is kind of crazy. I've

13:45

never seen it before. The wind in

13:48

San Francisco during this rain on that

13:50

Sunday was insane. And we're walking through

13:52

the lower hate, and it was just

13:55

windy. The

13:57

rain had slowed down, and I hear this. Which

14:00

kind of. Craft and I'd

14:02

write his i turn I see

14:04

a tree fall on do a

14:06

car in real time It was

14:08

like holy fuck that three just

14:10

fell on that car and I

14:12

looked at it and I had

14:14

that moment where you like this

14:16

is happening now. Nobody. Was

14:19

hurt. But. Then found a walk

14:21

on and there's nothing else you

14:23

can do. It's a weird thing

14:25

about this environmental disaster is people

14:27

just sort of like man I

14:29

guess is just the weather now.

14:31

trees are going to fall on

14:33

cars that were add. That's.

14:36

It. Was. Your

14:38

trip. Change. Is inevitable people.

14:40

There are very few things I

14:42

haven't changed over the past decade. Sometimes

14:44

change is good. lots of times

14:46

it's bad. But one thing that remains

14:49

constant since Two Thousand and Thirteen is

14:51

a partnership between the show and stance.com

14:53

Not only were they want of

14:55

Wtf first full time advertisers, but we've

14:58

been using Stamps.coms ever since and so

15:00

have our listeners. People keep getting

15:02

on board with Stamps Dot Com because

15:04

it's like having your own personal post

15:07

office. Wherever you are, you just. Use

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get the freescale, keep supporting Wtf by

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long term commitments are contracts? Just

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go to stamps.com Click the microphone

15:43

at the top of the home

15:45

page and ads or code Wtf?

15:48

Yes, Soviet.

15:51

I. Prepped the the beginning. For.

15:53

This John Oliver conversation. What?

15:56

A great time We had. The.

15:58

new season of last week tonight premieres Sunday,

16:00

February 18th on HBO. And

16:03

it was great seeing John, and

16:06

now you can listen to us hanging

16:09

out. I

16:13

was like, you know, what am I gonna do,

16:15

Dick? Am

16:19

I gonna call people I went

16:21

to high school with? Hey, dude, remember? Yeah. There's

16:24

a couple of them around. Guess who's bucking tells. Yeah, but

16:27

then I realized, I don't have to do that. I

16:29

love the place and it'll be fine. I'll just hang

16:31

out. I'll be old. And the fucking everything's

16:33

going. I'm just, I've been doing it. You will be old.

16:35

That was unavoidable. Pull that up. Yeah.

16:38

You get it right to your mouth.

16:40

It's your old radio technique. I love

16:42

little flashes of radio, Mark. Pull that

16:45

up. Get

16:48

on the mic. What are you doing? You're

16:51

fucking new to this? I love radio,

16:54

Mark. That's a skill that does not exit

16:56

your body, does it? I am offended by

16:58

the distance of your mouth from

17:00

that mic. So let's correct that straight away.

17:02

Yeah, like, what are you doing? You know how to do

17:04

this. You're professional. I

17:07

can't stand when I gotta sit here and ride

17:09

the levels. I love radio suits. Some idiot doesn't

17:12

know how to fucking talk on a microphone. And

17:14

believe me, I can't tell you how many times I've had

17:16

to do that. Because then it gets to the point

17:19

where it's like, am I gonna say

17:21

it again? It's like, just get on the mic. That's right.

17:23

These mics are sensitive. They're specific. And they're

17:25

not here. This is

17:27

where they are. Right, so you're gonna say it once,

17:30

firmly, and then you're not gonna say it at the

17:32

same time. You're just gonna see you. Watch the fucking

17:34

idiot drift. Start talking

17:36

over here. And

17:38

just hope that Brendan can fix it later. And

17:41

apologize for it. I don't

17:43

know, I didn't realize it was such a skill. But here's

17:45

the thing, dude. I was just texting

17:48

with my friend James Gray, the

17:50

popular film director. And

17:54

we're both feeling, I wouldn't say

17:56

cynical. I would say

17:58

straight up, relatively. Hope. Nanda.

18:02

And also like I enjoy your show

18:04

cause ya, it's weird. I was able

18:06

to make the Met the transition like

18:08

Rachel Maddow contextual icing for mates and

18:10

then I guess he decided she'd had

18:12

enough of that stuff of providing context

18:14

physically. Gonna have less my views about

18:16

me? Yeah yeah, something I don't know

18:18

what happens is I guess he's doing

18:20

a radio shows about Spiro Agnew sites

18:22

the World's on Fire. And

18:24

you're trying to find historic precedents.

18:26

Failure of put the violin bow

18:28

yeah purposes it's i us viewers

18:30

and for historical precedent to do

18:32

spades. How far do you

18:34

to go back for more? Do snag a slow

18:37

were in the age measure a visit Lv. To

18:40

see Bernie lessons for to die Quite

18:42

good. Note: those known to support yes,

18:45

but stick with today's a house is

18:47

on fire Exactly. I don't need to

18:49

learn about how houses previously been get

18:51

more info on the blaze on some

18:53

level of some sort of strange a

18:55

it's it's it's the It's a rationalization

18:58

of history that you know you seek

19:00

precedent a year that like always been

19:02

bad before yet. But it's. Different type

19:04

of Adnan because you know the cultures

19:06

become salchow that these machines that we

19:09

hold their hands all day are are

19:11

are are just me or trauma mills

19:13

and they shatter the brain's ability to

19:16

contextualize properly and a guarantee if your

19:18

brain is not engage properly that you

19:20

will you will just become an appendage

19:22

yes of a cultural noise. For the

19:25

I mean it's true the things we

19:27

buy before the road, that context is

19:29

real. And. It's okay, ever

19:31

so slightly stabilize or her.

19:34

But. I think where I

19:36

would agree there. Is what

19:38

you're dealing with now with the way that

19:40

people consume. Media. and basically

19:42

of them to the world around them

19:44

Yeah is rocket fuel or oh no

19:46

the we've had to go through things

19:48

with rocket fuel like this before where

19:50

we haven't assist effect on so to

19:52

that. Extent. Certain.

19:55

Jammies on you and exponentially larger than before. And

19:57

I don't know what they're going to mean, but

19:59

he doesn't. You go to the

20:01

big mistake really was giving everyone

20:03

a voice. Yeah, I mean. At

20:06

listen to us. Phyllis install and possesses

20:08

the thing is image. Itself

20:12

on hundred percent untrue in the city because

20:14

it sounds great New gave everyone a voice

20:16

and then you have to wait. What did

20:18

I say Oh no he needs to shut

20:20

the fuck up. So the idea that guy

20:22

yeah that that guy to i don't see

20:24

him avoid young and already saw know everyone's

20:26

you out when Roka be egalitarian society instantly

20:28

everyone's got one and day you. Know it's

20:30

some people don't even have to use

20:32

their name. most people everyone's guess they

20:34

can all see I'm in but the

20:36

I don't know man I think about

20:39

the stuff a lot. Yes it's very

20:41

very very.and I don't know how to

20:43

will use Advance of Beauty, the contextualize

20:45

and I actors. I find it personally

20:47

helpful via but I will stay in

20:49

certain ways is more depressing I think.

20:51

The thing that. Really?

20:53

Rocked me in the. Early

20:56

days of the by she not even in the

20:58

early days of my deputy as we began to

21:00

access it via you always hope right? I feel

21:03

the pandemic. A my head

21:05

I thought well if there is a

21:07

seismic event that actually exposes. The.

21:10

Gigantic. Flaws in the way

21:12

to society Structured. In a

21:14

way that nobody can deny the front of

21:16

and the with so adept are ignoring. Hypothetically

21:20

if such a thing could happen maybe that

21:22

would be a hero from it. But once

21:24

that happened in my it might things I

21:27

felt doc if it were holding. We saw

21:29

it. You saw the extent to

21:31

which. Society. Is

21:33

letting down the most fun of the planet

21:35

You watch the happened the you agreed it

21:38

was a problem and you didn't go back

21:40

to fix it. That. says.

21:42

But death us do not go back to fix it.

21:44

I feel like at least thirty percent of the people

21:46

in this country are waiting till they can legally killed

21:49

them. I.

21:51

Mean. What? has his

21:53

death of his for every just on one

21:55

hand that's almost the darkest thing it was

21:57

we sites on the other hand my body

22:00

Reacted that with a gleeful laugh. I don't know

22:02

what to tell you about that's because there is

22:04

historical precedent Underg

22:27

Propaganda machine on so many levels. It's

22:29

so profound You know like

22:31

you know regular people and liberals

22:33

are just sort of like you know Should we should

22:36

we put up something on the bulletin board? Where

22:40

should we put the stickers Absolutely

22:44

true. Yeah, it's that

22:46

look at these bumper stickers. I said so well

22:48

There's a president in the way of handling this

22:50

kind of disinformation. Oh, you're dealing with something. This

22:52

is a different beast Totally this beast will come

22:55

in at you will eat your bulletin message. Yeah,

22:57

I know eat your brain and it will ship

22:59

them back Yeah, oh absolutely. You're just three clicks

23:01

away from being Algorithmed into

23:03

psychosis. Yes, I don't know that it's People

23:06

have got better at this information. I think

23:09

it's just we've we are so

23:11

much weaker And I

23:13

think even my darkest expectations wanted

23:15

a weaker how mentally socially susceptible

23:17

emotionally to it Oh, it's

23:20

just a bunch of soft-brained idiots looking

23:22

for parasocial interaction because you want you

23:25

I guess It's the way that

23:27

again in the Pantemic You could

23:29

see as I tried to like you're saying

23:31

yeah Look for context as a

23:34

person right and what also through the show yeah

23:36

was realizing. Oh there is a There

23:39

is a Completely understandable

23:41

desire in times of chaos to

23:44

reach for conspiracy theories because they provide

23:46

a sense of structure in when everything

23:49

So functioning dogma. I think I think it's

23:51

the same way that when Princess

23:54

this is to go back to Britain when Princess Anna died

23:56

yes Crazy conspiracy theories

23:58

about having the Queen bumper There

24:00

was part of me that

24:03

was completely, could see

24:05

the appeal in that, partly because it didn't

24:07

make any sense that this woman

24:10

could be killed in a classic

24:13

car crash into the tunnel. It

24:15

didn't make sense, and that is frightening. So

24:17

what makes more sense is, well, the world is

24:20

fundamentally ordered by this ridiculous

24:22

old lady with a garb hat. Yeah, yeah,

24:24

yeah, yeah. A dark master plan. It will

24:26

be done, and that's actually more comforting than

24:29

the truth is that any of us could

24:31

get smashed into a column at any second

24:33

and deal with it. Yeah, and no one's

24:35

that organized. This isn't fucking movies. You

24:38

know what I mean? I just watched your

24:40

first John Wick, and I was able to

24:42

suspend my disbelief to enjoy him fighting

24:44

for the... Of course. That's an

24:46

elemental attraction to John Wick. You ever get put

24:48

down in a hotel where you use gold coins

24:50

and just kill... Of course, there's a system. All

24:53

I'm looking for is a fucking system. Modern

24:56

revenge should have a system to it. Yeah, especially

24:58

when it's about the death of an enemy. A

25:00

coin-based system that has to be a location where

25:02

the rules don't apply. I like this. Yeah, yeah,

25:04

but that's true. It's

25:06

the same thing with religion. The brain is built

25:09

for it because it can't handle the

25:11

existential terror of it not having a

25:13

system, right? Yes. But

25:16

it's... The John Wick universe is

25:18

a religion in an

25:21

almost fully formed religious universe. Sure. The

25:24

universe is... Marvel Universe is even more elaborate.

25:28

I like the coin-based system. Me too. And

25:31

the no-judgment hotel where you can walk

25:33

in with your holding your arm that's

25:35

been shot off. Oh, and you allow

25:37

dogs too? Sure. I kind of like

25:39

this place. I guess you need us to call the doctor. A

25:43

good doctor on site. That's

25:46

a prestige. Hell of a hotel. Hell of a

25:48

hotel. And if they fuck up, they give you

25:50

a car. We're sorry, Mr.

25:52

Wick. Not saying the hotel is perfect

25:54

morally, but I'm saying I'm giving it

25:56

an excellent review. I

25:58

had a fantastic... Exactly.

26:01

I've been watching a lot

26:03

of movies, but I was talking to James

26:06

and this sort of craving for something,

26:09

some depth, some place to kind

26:12

of, you know, keep your emotions in

26:14

context, you know, somehow to express the

26:16

feelings that your heart is capable of.

26:18

I find I've been watching old movies,

26:20

new movies, like not just to distract

26:22

me, but just to make sure that

26:24

my heart is kind of working properly

26:26

still. Yeah. Well, you know,

26:28

that makes sense to me. Yeah. And I guess

26:31

I felt like that

26:33

again, during the, definitely in

26:35

the early days of pandemic, when the body

26:39

count is getting higher and higher. And you're in New

26:41

York. I'm in New

26:43

York doing the show from home, Losing My Mind. I'm out

26:45

of the trade. Yeah, the right- The weight void. Yeah.

26:47

And kind of having some version, the

26:50

best functional version of a nervous

26:52

breakdown that I can have, along

26:54

with everyone, right? And part of that

26:56

concern was that the thing I love

26:58

more than anything else is making comedy,

27:01

making the comedy show. And it

27:03

feels like it's the only way that I can process this.

27:05

And I don't know if it is remotely appropriate. Right.

27:08

So whether anyone- In your home.

27:11

Exactly. Whether anyone wants this, it's all

27:13

projection, because I can't hear a validating

27:17

or negative response. So it is just one

27:19

man losing his mind in a tiny room.

27:22

Yeah. As

27:25

crazy as it is to say, the thing

27:27

that actually gave me the first moment of

27:29

hope was we had, we got

27:31

people to track down this rat erotica painting,

27:34

right? Yeah. Very, very, very, very,

27:36

very stupid joke. Yeah. Immensely

27:38

silly, right? The exact kind of thing that I was

27:40

worried no longer applied when- Sure.

27:43

Death counts are in the bottom corner of CNN. Yeah. Right?

27:46

And when this guy turned up in

27:48

like a hazmat suit- Yeah. And

27:51

he was this 1970s Pennsylvania rat

27:53

porn painting. Yeah. It just, there

27:55

was something so deeply to found

27:57

it funny and ridiculous. It took

27:59

a- Significant weight of the world falling

28:01

apart. Oh, well if I'm going down I'm

28:04

going down joking about dumb shit And

28:06

it gave me more. Yeah face

28:08

in Possibility

28:11

of future going forward then I am

28:13

comfortable admitting. Yeah, it was the sole

28:16

Bright point I'd had in weeks and I

28:18

didn't know if another one was coming. Yeah.

28:20

Well, I mean I I think that I think

28:23

that's Revealing of what people

28:25

need you know like and also just effective

28:28

of interaction The fact that somebody came to

28:30

you with it. Yes, or it was exactly

28:32

exactly. It was all of that It was

28:34

the fact that we'd we'd said Can

28:37

anyone track this painting down? Yeah, it doesn't matter

28:41

Doesn't matter the fact that people actually

28:43

tried to track it down then did

28:45

then someone was willing to sell

28:47

it to us Yeah, then some yeah guy

28:50

in a FedEx truck was willing to bring

28:52

it to me Risk is life. I know

28:54

exactly exactly And

28:56

I could hold up in front of a camera

28:58

and say something like this feels like hope like

29:01

it's a joke But it wasn't another show

29:03

really wasn't that was zero percent of a

29:05

joke thing some things are still working. Yes,

29:07

I know I know Yeah,

29:11

all the rhythm of a joke presented like you're supposed

29:13

to laugh at it. I was being 100% serious So

29:17

I mean, but how but how do you

29:19

feel now? I? Mean

29:21

in the context of going into an election Like

29:25

how do you like what is the price? So

29:27

let me do it on the mic congratulations on

29:29

the Emmy wins Thanks,

29:32

and can I I just want to qualify that

29:34

by saying I get nothing I Get

29:38

nothing. I do good work and

29:40

I get nothing You're you're saying that out loud

29:42

like you thought it was necessary to say I

29:44

heard it through the s of wins So

29:47

I appreciate you saying it, but I guess

29:49

this speaks to you as an actor Yeah,

29:51

you're able to get across the unsaid that's

29:53

something. Yeah, maybe I should give myself more

29:55

credit No one needed that's not when you

29:57

let in heavily to the mic on wind

30:00

We all heard it. I

30:03

don't have as much control over that as I'd like

30:05

as an actor. You have zero control over that. That's

30:08

what makes you such a magnetic. Oh,

30:12

here it is. Oh, it's all coming out. Good.

30:15

So now they just need to give awards for that. What

30:18

do you call that? Can

30:21

you make a category for it? I'm sure they can.

30:24

I'm sure they won. What

30:26

happened with your category? A

30:28

different category. A

30:30

more challenging category. A little bit different,

30:32

is it? I don't know. Why did

30:34

you get punted out of the talk show? I have no

30:36

idea. It's nothing to do with me.

30:40

I love me to say, could you please remove people's data? Talk

30:42

show category, put us in the same category as

30:45

Carol Burnett at 100 and Saturday Night Live?

30:47

Yes. We

30:50

were put in a different category. But

30:52

you won it. We

30:54

won. Who does it

30:56

show? I don't know. Who's

31:00

them then? My parents?

31:04

Were your parents voters? I

31:06

don't even know who votes for those things. No,

31:08

I appreciate your little bias. I

31:10

think what it probably does for us

31:12

is bias existence.

31:16

Of course. But if you go, what does HBO have? Haven't

31:20

they been absorbed by Discovery or somebody? Everyone

31:22

is, sure, they've been absorbed by Discovery. They might get absorbed.

31:26

We've had three different owners in

31:28

the ten years that we've been there. I

31:30

don't think we'll be done here. It's

31:33

like new dads moving into the home. Do

31:35

I need to learn your name? I

31:38

think there's another one coming. And

31:40

you just hope they're not abusive. That's

31:42

right. And they all are. Somehow, one

31:44

way or the other, whether it's actively

31:46

or passively. There's a

31:48

whole sense of you're not my kids with every new dad that

31:50

comes in. Yeah, but so many of

31:52

them have so little ability to make new kids

31:55

that they sort of have to suck it up. They're just given a bunch of

31:57

orphans. The

32:00

right? good luck. That's right. If if

32:02

these gigantic mergers or anything I just

32:04

mass adoption cs and and you're you're

32:06

mad at least children I will blow

32:08

up. I recalled a foster situation. I'd

32:10

had enough their actual adoption because it

32:13

will watch the kids. And yeah, somebody

32:15

else wants it. There is a debt

32:17

service for death, but. What?

32:19

Is the process? because? I mean it seems to.

32:21

Like. And I have our time talking about certain

32:24

things to take me months to figure out how

32:26

to address. Israel on stage.

32:28

yeah you know and hear ya.

32:30

I'm wary to to sort of

32:32

even ponder it out loud because

32:34

of my lack of education about

32:36

the situation in terms of historically

32:38

and I don't want to be

32:40

co opted are used by either

32:42

side for you know as an

32:44

example which seems to be the

32:46

mode at which have lost public

32:48

people are are utilized. Yes people

32:50

think you're going to represent what

32:52

they think and if you don't

32:54

dance fuck you yes you fascist

32:56

you. Anti Semite? Whatever it's gonna be. Those.

33:00

Are two different things now by the one. With

33:03

I never thought I'd see today. listen and

33:05

will be specific reason we were. You know

33:07

where fascists in anti semites or the to

33:10

school there to operate and get out to

33:12

things can be true. As a on the

33:14

Van Dyke endless I sign of overlap with

33:16

some separates right? So. We. Are

33:18

better. But how do you balance at ship when

33:20

you are in a writers' room? When you make

33:22

a decision. To. Do any So or

33:24

about Gaza. Yeah Me: What? What is the what

33:26

is the breakdown? How do you choose a story?

33:29

Will. Have a job leads from what

33:32

is. Like intriguing.

33:34

Up First whereas you managed to

33:36

build this machine that can go

33:38

and. Find. Answers Force.

33:41

or and we have how does that work

33:43

know is that august btc got smart researchers

33:45

who yeah how parties and if i have

33:47

been on for so long have access to

33:50

incredible experts are all of a sudden you

33:52

can cats real information back you land there's

33:54

yeah i senior officers a room of the

33:56

of they would they can reach out to

33:59

whoever will whatever story we're talking about to

34:01

experts, not advocates, although we'll reach out to

34:03

them as well on all sides to get

34:05

a sense of what they want and what

34:07

experts think actually exist and there can be

34:09

obviously some distance between those two things. And

34:14

then we'll kind of build a story from there.

34:17

Those are like to make the foundation strong,

34:20

that is where the story begins, whatever

34:22

we're talking about, whether it's homeowners associations

34:24

or prison health care. We do like

34:26

the one topic thing is like it's

34:29

a, what I like about it, not

34:32

unlike Rachel at

34:34

Times or that type of show,

34:36

which there aren't many of, is that this is contextualizing

34:40

and educating. Yeah, although

34:42

we don't, we have the benefit of not

34:44

having to throw to a commercial break. I

34:46

think at that point we'd be fucked because

34:48

you lose people, right? You need to hold

34:50

people's attention. So some of our

34:52

stories now at like 25, 30, 75 minutes. You

34:56

hold them. Yeah, you hold and then just drag

34:58

them back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Here's some stuff that

35:00

might be boring, but look at this. Anyway,

35:05

we're running prison camps. Yeah, exactly. I know, I

35:07

get the system. I

35:09

understand how it works. Stick and

35:11

move. I broke it down. I broke

35:13

it down. Oh, it's getting a little dense. You can

35:15

do something silly. Here he comes. He's getting off from

35:17

the desk. He's going somewhere. Wow, this must have been

35:20

dark. He's

35:22

going to do a thing. How

35:26

much money did that cost at the end? That's

35:28

right. You've got to reverse engineer.

35:31

If the whole show ends with a

35:33

gigantic bird puppet, you know that the 25

35:35

minutes running off to that were really dark.

35:39

Yeah, or the end of the year explosion. You

35:42

save up for that. You wouldn't think you collect money

35:44

from the staff or you

35:46

make sure you budget the end of the year

35:48

explosion. You aggregate all of your budget. You deny

35:51

how much it actually cost to HBO. And then

35:53

you hope that you win a golden trophy so

35:55

they don't ask too many follow up questions. And

35:57

you blow shit up. Yep. which

36:00

in a active deep catharsis. But like I

36:02

do like the fact that for some reason

36:04

because of I think your innate Britishness and

36:07

your sense of humor that you

36:09

do irritate the right. Oh,

36:12

actually in general. I like to irritate the right. No, no,

36:14

but I mean but you know you can I don't know

36:16

if you have to necessarily hold your

36:18

own, but I mean they certainly have come

36:21

after you. Sure. And it's not like you're

36:23

gonna go engage on Twitter all day or

36:25

anything. No, I'm not. But you

36:27

can't address it casually or. That's the thing.

36:29

I'm not available for those kind of interactions.

36:31

Right. So yeah, I will I will speak

36:34

through the show. Yeah, basically it. Yeah, but

36:36

you can speak pretty directly. Yeah, you

36:38

can speak directly and I know I'm

36:41

speaking with like with deep

36:43

foundation. Sure. Therefore I believe completely what

36:45

I'm saying and if you don't like

36:47

it then that is absolutely your problem.

36:49

And you have warriors. But I know

36:51

that what I'm saying is factually

36:54

right. And what about engaging lawyers? How does

36:56

that work as the show? Do you just

36:58

have like not unlike your research department? Do

37:00

you have a room which is? Two layers.

37:02

We have lawyers. HBO has lawyers. Yeah. They

37:04

you know this and there's just non-stop tension.

37:07

Yeah. And you and some you know some

37:09

will be working for a month

37:11

on a story. Yeah. Keep them out of it. Yeah. Say hey, by

37:13

the way, we're gonna talk about Amazon all of a sudden. Oh, we're

37:15

gonna have to conflict out. Oh, are you? Are you gonna have to

37:17

conflict out? What does that mean? That

37:19

means that Amazon's already a client. We're gonna

37:22

have to you're gonna have to

37:24

get a new lawyer. Yeah. That doesn't matter. It all

37:26

comes down to There's a

37:28

guy we're living in the age of a lawyer.

37:30

Yes, although the fundamental tension. Yeah

37:33

in our show. Yeah,

37:35

we're in our relation with the lawyers is

37:37

I think we have two different

37:40

interpretations of what their job is. Yeah, I

37:42

think they would say that their

37:44

job is to stop us

37:46

getting sued and I would say that their job is

37:48

to make sure that when we are sued, we

37:52

win. Right. And the distance between those two

37:54

things is where real tension

37:56

happens. Yeah. So it's

37:59

sort of amazing. to me, either I didn't

38:01

notice it or this is a relatively new thing

38:03

that in the last decade, it's

38:06

been just a fucking amazing

38:08

time for lawyers. Everybody

38:10

sues everybody. This is the way it works. Politics, no

38:12

matter what. Was there always that much suing going on?

38:15

I don't think there was. I don't know. You'd have

38:17

to speak to that. Why don't you do a show

38:19

on that, suing? I think we've

38:21

been sued. I know that when we

38:23

did the coal guy, right? Yeah, exactly. But

38:25

I- Now can you even talk about that guy? Yeah, because it's done. Well, he's dead

38:28

now, so you can talk about it. I

38:30

think it's a net positive for everybody on

38:32

Earth that he's dead. I think it would

38:34

have been better if it happened sooner. I

38:36

don't think I'm alone in saying that, but I'd

38:38

also be fine if it was just me. Yeah, so

38:40

for that right, knew he was going to sue because

38:43

he was threatening during the research of that first ever

38:45

than coal. I knew it was going to

38:47

happen. It was inevitable. So

38:49

he did. And then we're tied up

38:52

for years. And I don't want to minimize the

38:54

fact that a lot of time, that's a lot

38:56

of money that it costs, our

38:58

legal insurance goes up. But I was

39:01

fiercely of the opinion that HBO should not

39:04

back down and settle with him because that

39:06

was his MO. You would sue local

39:09

newspapers with their slabs. And they can't

39:11

carry those costs. So they're

39:13

going to settle. They're going to back down because

39:15

their existence is under threat. So it was just

39:18

massively important to me that they stood

39:20

biased then. And to their credit, they

39:22

did, meaning that we could

39:24

win and then tell them to go,

39:26

fuck himself. But even when

39:28

he eventually abandoned and didn't feel again, there

39:31

was, again, the lawyers are really happy saying,

39:33

okay, it's over. And there's part of me

39:35

thinking, oh, come on, one more appeal. I'm

39:38

not done yet. It's

39:41

like a boxer like a referee is having and saying, he's

39:43

done here. I want to hit him a

39:45

few more times. I'm still mad. Yeah, the old man,

39:47

the old monster kicked

39:50

the monster. Kick the old

39:52

man when he's literally down.

39:55

He deserves to. He's going to be familiar with

39:58

burning. That's right. Yeah,

40:00

but so I so you would have to speak to

40:02

like I think from as a The

40:05

rest of the world has always seen America as

40:08

Litigious based economy. Yeah, so whether that's

40:11

been supercharged over the last 10 20

40:13

years It seems like most

40:15

lawyers in America will have an opportunity to

40:17

defend Trump with with something. Oh

40:19

sure Again, he

40:21

is turning through he is a job

40:23

provider. Yeah that sense Undeniably you

40:25

have to give it to him It's

40:29

a tremendous job provider for the law industry.

40:31

Yes I don't I don't know if there's

40:33

the jobs that his his crowds think he's

40:35

providing but he is providing them You have

40:37

to give him that I will concede that

40:39

point now. What about your

40:42

protection? I mean when you started making

40:44

fun of The Chinese

40:46

president. Yeah, and this kind of stuff.

40:48

Yeah at what level of personal

40:51

threat do you deal with? Well Like

40:53

personally emotionally I don't do with it at all.

40:55

Yeah, so I Did I

40:58

benefit of yeah, I can

41:00

displace that I could laugh at it

41:02

no matter how big that's how deep

41:04

the English is Yeah, because it's the

41:06

bigger the bigger the funnier in my

41:08

mind Oh, yes, you keep like we

41:10

we baited a ramzan Katteroff who runs

41:12

Chechnya Yeah, very angry the fact he's

41:14

like going on a Twitter tear against

41:16

me. Yeah, it just fills

41:18

me with joy, right? It feels it feels a

41:20

hole that I didn't know I had these are

41:23

dangerous men. Yeah, but that kind of yes You're

41:25

right. I'll concede that you sound a little like

41:27

my wife. But yes, but I

41:29

there is a real thrill in Irritating

41:33

them right, especially because no

41:35

not to analyze it too much You

41:38

know that they they are

41:40

very comfortable people and maybe sometimes discomfort in

41:42

the pettiest possible form is all you can

41:44

do So if you know that you've gotten

41:46

to one of them, there is a there

41:48

is a child to it and I'm not

41:50

you know, we have security at the show

41:52

I They

41:54

say we need it. I I

41:57

think it's overblown, but yeah, I

41:59

always think of the casualness by

42:02

which the group of mafia leaders

42:06

killed Alan King's character in

42:08

Casino. Why not? Do

42:13

you know what I mean? It's like, he's

42:15

a good guy. Alright, but just

42:18

for safety's sake, let's take him

42:20

out. Yes, of course. But

42:22

I think

42:24

the things, I guess the real truth is that

42:27

some of the things that bring me the most

42:29

happiness are finding out that people, I

42:32

would like to be annoyed, are

42:34

angry at me. So like when you hear

42:37

the Sackler family want to come to the office

42:39

to speak to you, you're like, oh they sound

42:42

really mad. Oh, did they come? They would know

42:44

it, because that's not how anything fucking works. Like,

42:47

we were engaging with them during that story,

42:50

they're like, oh can we come talk to them?

42:52

You can talk to us right now through these

42:54

channels, this is how this works. We're researching. Like

42:56

if it's a kind of charm offensive, let me

42:58

save you a trip. Well how's that gonna work?

43:00

Do you like painting? Would

43:02

you like a painting? We

43:04

have the whole wing that they're about to take our name off

43:07

of. You want a free museum tour? I think we're past the

43:09

free museum tour. Do

43:12

you want to do it at night? Yeah. With your

43:14

wife? Have you Googled your family's surname? Let me do it

43:16

for you now. I'll just read the first five hits,

43:18

and it's not a perfect barometer, but it's pretty ugly. They're

43:23

calling you murderers. Now legally, I know

43:25

that's a loaded definition. Practically, I think

43:27

the case is there. But

43:30

ultimately they still get off with a few, a

43:32

little bit of money. They're doing fine

43:34

aren't they? Oh, I think

43:37

that's still ongoing. But yeah, I

43:39

think the deal that they made holds

43:41

up, then they get off to a shameful,

43:44

I would argue, criminal extent. Well it's just

43:46

sort of interesting, like anyone who carries that

43:48

family's name, because I know somebody who knows

43:51

a Sackler, and they wanted me to meet

43:53

them, and they're sort of like, no she's

43:55

one of the good Sacklers. Believe me, we

43:57

had so many of those calls. Not that

43:59

kind of... and then you look them

44:01

up and you go, I mean, not that kind of cycle.

44:04

Close. Yeah. Cousins

44:06

count. Exactly. Or

44:09

you were so against what was happening, right? Where'd you

44:11

live? Where are you calling from right now? That

44:14

kind of trouble, I really, really

44:16

liked. Well, you know, you're definitely sticking

44:18

it to him, which is great. Yeah,

44:20

it's funny. And on some level, you know,

44:23

if the leader of Cheshnya is like,

44:25

you know, ranting about you on Twitter, he's

44:27

obviously, you know, he's doing it in the

44:29

modern way. You know, you're not walking

44:31

down the street and you don't take two

44:33

bullets to the head. He's allowed. Is

44:35

that talk, like, shit post about me? Sure.

44:39

On Twitter and Instagram? Yeah. Then

44:41

you have evolved as a person. That's it. Because I'm

44:43

not in a gulag. So I actually think this should be celebrated. Yeah, yeah,

44:45

yeah. But yeah, my wife, occasionally, will say, oh,

44:47

I'd really like to go to Thailand. She goes, I can't

44:49

actually go to Thailand. I got

44:51

a Les Majest charge. A royal family

44:54

there. What happened? I

44:56

can't go. What did you do in Thailand? Oh,

44:58

nothing. They just made fun of the Thai

45:00

monarchy. You can't do that. Oh. So

45:03

there's a chance you go there, you'll be

45:06

king? Yeah, you just get picked up at

45:08

the airport. So maybe I can't go to

45:10

Thailand. But you know, would I have enjoyed

45:12

Thailand as much as I enjoyed upsetting the

45:15

Thai monarchy? I would argue no. But

45:19

do you enjoy anywhere?

45:22

Yeah. You do. Do you like vacations? No,

45:25

not at all. No,

45:27

but I like going to places. I

45:29

went to, what's the last time? I've got

45:31

little kids now, so I've been many people. How many? Two.

45:35

Oh, OK. I went to, very briefly,

45:37

I went to India to interview the Dalai Lama.

45:40

So even being there for a few days was fantastic.

45:44

It looks amazing to me. It's great.

45:46

It's a truly chaotic place in

45:48

the best possible way. I

45:51

loved it so much. And desperate to go back.

45:53

Yeah. It really was

45:55

almost insultingly brief. Did you have to get a

45:57

lot of shots? No. Things

46:00

have changed. Do you just stay away from it? Yeah,

46:02

I mean there's like going to any country,

46:05

you should probably be cognizant of what you're eating

46:07

and whether your stomach can handle it. Yeah. But

46:10

no, it was amazing. On the way back

46:12

I went to see Taj Mahal. You did?

46:15

It's kind of, it's pretty great. Yeah, it's

46:17

amazing when you look at things that aren't

46:20

kind of ruined and boring, like everything

46:23

in America or England.

46:25

Yeah. Oh, come on, Mark.

46:27

What? I mean, this is,

46:29

Britain still has many, many, now, many of

46:31

our greatest buildings ruins, yes, but you've got

46:34

to think backward. No. To

46:36

go back to context, Mark, you've got to think about- No,

46:38

I guess what I mean is a different history. Yeah. Like,

46:41

obviously, like I don't mean to be that condescending. I

46:43

like England, I like going there and I enjoy the

46:45

castles. And I like- I'm

46:48

not sure, I'm not sure where, you may never

46:50

have sound more American than that. The

46:54

gardens are nice. I like the castles. The

46:56

castles, the gardens. Yeah. The

46:58

museums, tremendous. Which king was this, okay?

47:01

In one ear out the other. I

47:03

love it. Right. Seeing it. Check.

47:06

Same with Ireland. How old is this wall?

47:08

Holy fuck. That's an old wall. Old?

47:11

BC. Yeah. Yeah. What

47:14

am I supposed to do? I can only take so much

47:16

history and I can still enjoy the people. I enjoy the

47:19

people. Well, and I could not

47:21

recommend India harder. It's

47:23

an amazing place. But what, okay, so now, okay, what

47:25

are we going to do about the futility? You

47:30

could let it hang. Feel

47:33

free to let that hang in the air. Let's

47:36

just all enjoy the fact that we're all filling it in

47:38

and coming up with different, equally

47:40

valid, depressing, end

47:42

of that sentence. Do you

47:45

take it- so are you out doing a roadshow

47:47

with Seth Meyers? No. I

47:49

did- I went out for the first time in

47:51

a long time during the strike. I

47:54

got to go out because I had to pay the staff. So

47:57

I just ran all over the place

47:59

doing- Stand up for the

48:01

first time, a long time, packed together. I try and do it at

48:03

least once a year, but you know. You know,

48:05

that's not enough. So

48:07

I got to do it for months. So you brought

48:10

a variety show on the road? No,

48:12

no, no, no. Just me. And

48:15

then I... Would you do a Q&A? No,

48:17

stand up. Oh boy. You

48:20

know how to hurt. I'm

48:22

actually having to change the way I sit. That hurts so much.

48:26

God. Damn it. That's

48:28

a fucking precision strike. What

48:31

do you do a Q&A? Because

48:34

I agree with you. That's a...

48:36

What the fuck? I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

48:39

No, no. It's not really... Sorry.

48:42

You got me. You got me. You just said you

48:44

got to do it more than a year.

48:46

No, it's an hour. Yeah. I ran around

48:48

clubs quickly. I did that one and a

48:50

half a stand. I promise. There's no fucking

48:52

Q&A. It's all A. Okay. Your Q's are

48:54

not involved here. Okay, good. And

48:57

it's a valid question and it

48:59

wounded to be asked it. That's

49:01

right. A Q&A. The cowards entertainment.

49:07

Any questions? Yeah. Did you do any

49:09

work or are we... Are

49:11

we bearing some of the responsibility for tonight's

49:14

entertainment? I'm riffing. I'm riffing. This

49:16

is what people like. Yeah. Yeah. Oh,

49:18

is it? Well, we'll see about that. It's

49:20

a big business for people, the Q&A. Here's a question. Is the next

49:22

hour and a half going to feel enough at the end of it?

49:24

Yeah. Here's the answer.

49:27

Not for the look of your face right now. Some

49:29

of these guys hit a certain age. You just go out

49:31

with some slides from the career. And then you

49:33

do the Q&A at the end. Damn it. And

49:35

it's a big night at the retirement center. Okay.

49:38

Let's make an agreement right now. If either

49:40

you or I get into that position, the

49:43

other one is coming and putting a pillow over it. That's

49:45

fine. That's fine. I know. I will

49:47

hold it until the twitching stops the day

49:49

you say... Hey, so, uh... Anyone got any

49:52

questions? Air America. No. I

49:54

will admit to having done... What was Vama like? I

49:57

Will admit to having done like an hour and a half, two hour

49:59

show. And he I'm not. I'm not

50:01

quite knowing how to get off stage be like

50:03

I'd So that's point of impact. Other a fact

50:06

that it's full disclosure, winner says no. Do that.

50:08

We're going to do the Beacon once a month.

50:10

The I'd do an hour standoff. Yes then we

50:12

will do you an idea for before The key

50:14

when I see your point of the shows I

50:16

like now says of onto this year I was

50:19

I will. The likes of our got This evening

50:21

is over. By conceptually. Would

50:23

done If you want to stay here for some

50:25

to and I yeah you can I will understand

50:28

if you leave you gonna three minute period now

50:30

yeah get out how many least as they have

50:32

it was so we've only done a couple of

50:34

times less than you'd think I'll yanked less ten

50:36

minutes and and. What? But. The.

50:39

Ones. Like when

50:41

I was overseas about just a found upon I

50:43

see at butts off the doing tight stand up

50:45

ah eat or is it is attractive to have

50:47

the details with the a lucid it up yes

50:50

I do. You go out and you're doing that

50:52

too but you weren't because I thought I saw

50:54

Bill with you in south in Santa Fe or

50:56

somewhere no. No no we just

50:58

do. We just do the beacon together. Or maybe that

51:01

was just assess show. Get. To

51:03

be yeah it is. In

51:05

laws are in Albuquerque Oh

51:07

ok or so. See

51:09

Go did he did Astana to say the owners know

51:11

they'll have the money coming in just. Basically.

51:13

It's move any do pretty move the

51:16

money into pyro. Okay now here's my

51:18

question of utility his ass. When

51:22

you remove tolerance from.

51:25

Me: Out the the

51:27

cultural. Discourse. Or

51:30

when you remove tolerance from the

51:32

civic body, which is what's happening.

51:34

Yeah, democracy is relatively bus when

51:36

polarization is so. Defined.

51:39

By antagonism that there's no. Ability.

51:42

For tolerance and people double down on

51:45

being intolerant. Yeah, that the idea that

51:47

you're talking to you know, like minded

51:49

people all the time. I

51:51

just feel like you know there's no,

51:54

there's no bridging. the

51:56

gap yeah anymore so what do

51:58

we do we So,

52:02

just giving people relief as... Oh,

52:05

I see what you mean. I mean, maybe

52:08

some will be relief and... Right.

52:12

Maybe you'll inspire somebody to do something that actually

52:14

matters. Me? Anybody.

52:18

It's just like we... I talk a lot

52:20

about the polarization of comedy, that there is

52:22

a separate show business that is

52:24

driven by, you know, entrepreneurial comics,

52:26

which is fine. But there's

52:28

also a new audience, you know, based on,

52:30

you know, an amalgamation

52:32

of MMA people,

52:34

conspiracy whack jobs, you

52:37

know, people that only

52:39

eat meat. And there's

52:42

this idea that they're comedy fans, but they're

52:44

really not. There's a tribalization going on. But

52:46

there is a line being drawn in terms

52:49

of what comedy should be. And it's bothersome.

52:51

Of course, it's bothersome. It feels

52:54

also intellectually bankrupt. Totally. What it

52:56

should be to who? To a

52:58

certain extent, decide what

53:00

they want to go and see. So you

53:02

can go and see a comedian who eats

53:04

nothing but meat if you want. Yeah. Again,

53:07

we've given voice to too many. And

53:11

now, theoretically, I could be

53:14

framed now as exactly what

53:16

the liberal agenda, the liberal

53:18

authoritarianism... Theoretically, in bad faith,

53:20

you can be framed as

53:22

anything. And fighting that is...

53:24

It's all bad faith. Especially when it comes to

53:26

jokes. Well, especially when it comes to jokes. How

53:28

many jokes can you do, like, on your show

53:30

that they're reacting to as if you said something

53:33

completely serious? That this is

53:35

a position point and it was a joke? Yeah,

53:38

I really try not to do

53:40

that. Like the idea of applause

53:42

without laughter is painful. No, but

53:44

I mean, like, how it can

53:46

be reinterpreted or re-contextualized that, like,

53:48

he wasn't making a joke. This

53:50

is how he feels. Oh, yeah.

53:52

I... I

53:54

mean, you know this. Yeah. Deep

53:56

down, you are pouring energy down a fucking drain.

53:58

Yes. I think responding

54:01

to that. Yeah, yeah, responding to it

54:03

either Literally responding to it or

54:05

even physically responding to it in any way

54:07

because you can't control it You

54:11

just can't as frustrating as that is and

54:13

as a control freak. Yeah, like letting that

54:15

go is Frustrating. Yeah,

54:17

but you can't control it. No,

54:19

of course. So for some

54:21

of our stories on the show Yeah, there are points

54:23

at which well,

54:26

you don't want it just to be a bomb, right?

54:28

You don't just want to preach to the choir. Yeah,

54:30

so there are there are stories that we do

54:32

that You know are going to be to Generize

54:36

our audience into one type are going

54:38

to be something that they might not

54:40

agree with and so then you are

54:42

trying to move them Slightly. Yeah on

54:44

that right you slowly but significantly and

54:46

you've and I'm sure you have success

54:48

with that because that within No, I

54:50

mean American history would not suggest that

54:53

but yeah, no, but I mean within

54:55

what individually hopefully Yeah, but within like

54:57

this idea that there's an organized left

54:59

is fucking ridiculous Yes, and so when

55:01

you deal with the democratic ideas or

55:03

progressive ideas, there's there's going to be

55:05

a points of conflict

55:07

especially now so so

55:09

ultimately The best that we

55:11

can do is facilitate some sort

55:13

of conversation within the fucking Left

55:16

tent. Yes, you just can't you just don't want

55:19

to make the mistake of engaging in good faith

55:21

with a bad fight Because that then right you

55:23

go in that way. Yeah now

55:26

what what do you think's gonna

55:29

happen? Okay,

55:32

I don't in your heart in your heart if

55:34

I don't know I mean in the in the

55:36

darkest heart of hearts I'm Worry

55:39

that we're gonna head to a really bad place You

55:43

just gotta I don't know what you

55:45

place your hope in what the not

55:47

the innate goodness of people We've come up

55:50

snake eyes on that room Yeah No But

55:52

I think like the the deep energy of

55:54

people who are going to work harder at

55:56

this than I might believe is

55:58

possible you've

56:01

got to hope that they come through. Yeah. So

56:04

the bad place. Let's

56:07

illustrate it a little. I mean, illustrate

56:10

it again. Look around. I

56:12

mean, because we're, you know, we're in

56:14

America in an election year. Never the

56:16

funnest place to be, right? America

56:19

during election year is never this nation at its

56:21

best. It's at its most reductive.

56:23

You've got Roe v. Wade overturned. The press

56:26

stone in front of the Supreme Court. We

56:28

are, we are, this is going

56:30

to be a difficult

56:33

year, I think. Yeah. And

56:35

it could end badly. Yeah, it

56:37

definitely could. And so, yeah, for people

56:39

to have any

56:42

sense that, well, there's no way

56:44

that's going to happen, I don't know where you get that

56:46

confidence from. That might be... Yeah, I

56:48

don't either. That deep American confidence of everything is

56:50

going to be fine. Yeah. Feels like, well, that's

56:52

the response of a sociopath. Sure.

56:54

But I mean, but like on the other side of

56:56

that, and I don't think they are thinking this way,

56:59

is that, you know, I would say probably, I don't

57:01

know what the percentage is, get your researchers on it.

57:03

How many of the countries on

57:05

the planet are autocratic

57:07

or dictatorships, right? Yeah,

57:10

it feels, yeah, I don't, yeah, it

57:12

feels like there's been a shift. Or

57:14

more of those? Yeah, but I don't

57:16

know that statistically that is true. It feels

57:18

like there has been a surge, you know,

57:22

where that is on the graph over centuries, I don't know. What

57:25

I'm saying is that when somebody says things would be all right,

57:27

it's like, what is all right for them? Yeah.

57:30

You know, like, is it going to change the Netflix menu?

57:32

And, you know, can I still do the rock wall at

57:34

the place? You know, like, I mean, what

57:37

does it mean to people? Like, you know, I've always...

57:39

Yeah, that's true.

57:41

I guess what's all right is, you

57:43

know, I love

57:45

America. I've chosen to become an American.

57:47

I love this country. I

57:50

think it has been very convenient at

57:53

times in the last 100 years for America

57:56

to fall back on one

57:58

of the... The greatest attribute which

58:01

is selfishness. Oh yikes, When this country goes

58:03

to war. The answer is not

58:05

collective sacrifice, it's sacrificing a very few people and

58:07

also a you need Some of the call me

58:09

gone by suffered for it. She got her, got

58:11

it, He asked on it. Got it though. Tires

58:14

that that's what he absolutely I go as a

58:16

consumer I will consume is the easiest thing for

58:18

me to do and I'll do it by. Collective.

58:21

Sacrifice as to go by to assume

58:23

but in a pandemic that feels like

58:25

or now you be and achilles heel

58:27

America which is.is not something in in

58:29

of the individualistic country that people are

58:31

as willing to do and.you've gotta reckoned

58:34

with their and that is a weak

58:36

point where a bunch of selfish fucks

58:38

we get which is which has a

58:40

like if you if you. Buy.

58:42

In. To. The argument of capitalism.

58:44

It'll be. well, that will supercharge

58:46

you economy. Iron Eight would like.

58:49

Yeah. It'll. Correct itself as sissoko

58:51

to civilian side missile boats to

58:53

bounce issue has never worked but

58:55

maybe next time the Us and

58:57

that was it. But there is

58:59

a weird thing to entitlement and

59:01

toward into the fact that you

59:03

know a there is no real

59:05

center to anything anymore and people

59:07

are are engaged in their own

59:09

information forging and their own lifestyle

59:11

Forging that they with the to

59:14

paris social engagement with any number

59:16

of fucking dumb dumb see and

59:18

about eight Eight Ounces is nothing.

59:20

Inherently wrong with information, foraging for yourself,

59:22

right if you if you're really foraging.

59:24

but I meet right. But I mean,

59:26

but what's happened is there is no,

59:29

ah, kind of a you're honest. Civic.

59:32

dialogue and there's no real sense of

59:34

human interaction in the same way that

59:36

the euro beats there is no one

59:38

thing that everybody watches there is no

59:40

information that anybody can just there's no

59:42

sort of barometer of of journalistic integrity

59:44

that that everybody can get on the

59:46

same day one agrees with regret area

59:48

of internally that was deathly promise of

59:50

genders integrity but you're right they differ

59:53

from post the bus right so that

59:55

that becomes a real problem because that

59:57

means that like it's it's yell in

59:59

terms of the ship's rising,

1:00:01

it's like what is the most effective bullshit

1:00:04

that's going to make everybody feel sated emotionally?

1:00:09

That has nothing to do with the integrity of the

1:00:11

truth of the information or anything else. I'm

1:00:14

not talking about economical, I'm talking about cultural

1:00:16

and political. And so that becomes this really

1:00:18

weird problem, that the nature of what democracy

1:00:21

required as a civic responsibility,

1:00:24

even an understanding of

1:00:26

tolerance and like, you know, we've got to help

1:00:28

the little guy out, it's fucking gone. Yeah.

1:00:31

Ah, this is great. Yeah, I mean, I

1:00:33

think the answer to your question of

1:00:36

what's going to happen next, I

1:00:38

don't know what the answer is, but I think we

1:00:40

are going to answer it in

1:00:42

the next five years. I think in

1:00:46

the future, they will look back at this time and

1:00:48

they'll either say, oh, they really

1:00:50

managed just to avoid disaster, or they just

1:00:52

kept driving that right off the cliff, huh?

1:00:55

Or they just held their hands like Delmon

1:00:57

and Louise and they slammed the pedal down.

1:00:59

Or like, what happened to John Over? Did

1:01:01

they put him where, do you know

1:01:03

where they put him? I

1:01:06

mean, he was like a thing. Yeah.

1:01:09

Yeah. Which, which, which, which, Oh yeah,

1:01:11

that guy. Which entertainment prison is he

1:01:14

in? If

1:01:16

he was a jews or the other one. He was really

1:01:19

giggling to himself as they dragged him in there. He

1:01:22

kept much of something about really liking trouble

1:01:24

and then, then they shut the door. They

1:01:26

shut the door. He got quiet. Yeah.

1:01:28

But I've heard that he does a show in there for nobody.

1:01:30

There's no camera, but he still, he's just

1:01:32

loudly yelling. It's not Q and I. Yeah. Not

1:01:36

the gods. How

1:01:38

dare you suggest otherwise. But

1:01:42

he's densely written jokes to a fault. But

1:01:45

how, how do you like, you know, you, I mean, you did

1:01:47

a show on Sinclair, right? Yeah.

1:01:51

As, as a broadcaster and stuff, I mean, let's

1:01:54

just talk about specifically a specific fears.

1:01:57

Like let's say that like,

1:01:59

cause I. I have no doubt that

1:02:02

most corporate entities will

1:02:04

buckle to any sort of

1:02:06

fascism as long as they

1:02:08

can keep their bottom line correct. Yeah, you're

1:02:11

right. Their moral compass will be

1:02:13

the bottom line, I think. Right.

1:02:16

So. Not solely. I

1:02:18

wouldn't want to be that cynical, but I think the

1:02:20

primary motive, I think it's pretty clear. Yeah.

1:02:23

From the way national news organizations, special

1:02:26

Kevin News has set up, is profit

1:02:28

led. Right. And it's important to make

1:02:30

decisions like, oh, let's give Trump a down haul because it

1:02:32

will rate. Right. Which

1:02:35

is true. Right. If you are making a financial

1:02:37

decision, that's the responsible decision to make. So when

1:02:39

you think about the worst case scenario

1:02:41

for humor or for punching up or

1:02:43

for doing what you have to do

1:02:45

in a future that

1:02:47

is compromised in terms of what can

1:02:49

and can't be said, we're not there

1:02:51

yet. But how do you- Well, really

1:02:53

not though. That's the thing to remember.

1:02:56

Yeah. Yeah, I know you-

1:02:58

We're totally not. That is

1:03:00

total bullshit. You can't say this

1:03:02

is so flagrantly,

1:03:05

provably wrong. No, you can say anything.

1:03:07

Yes. You could say fucking

1:03:09

anything almost anywhere. It's just, you

1:03:11

know, no one will listen. And

1:03:15

I think that when that happens, you get people

1:03:17

going, I'll probably get canceled. No one hears you.

1:03:19

No, you're still saying it. Yes, yes. No

1:03:22

one hears you. But that is sort of, that is true.

1:03:24

You can't really say anything. And I think

1:03:27

that that's what the beautiful thing about being so

1:03:29

lawyered up is that you can actually push it

1:03:31

to- And it's what I will say is where

1:03:33

we, like with, just to go back to Arsham, where

1:03:35

we're lucky because we are not in

1:03:38

commercial television. Yeah. So,

1:03:40

and if ever I feel complacent

1:03:43

about that for a second, it doesn't take long

1:03:45

for me to be reminded by seeing something, just

1:03:47

how lucky we are to not have to take

1:03:49

commercial breaks and to not have to have a

1:03:51

phone call saying, hey, can we not talk about

1:03:53

Delta Airlines though because they're a sponsor? Yeah. And

1:03:56

that is a conversation I, I am too stubborn to

1:03:58

have the capacity to have that without saying, okay. Okay,

1:04:00

well, I'm gonna burn everything to the ground. Right.

1:04:03

Watch me do it. Right. Well,

1:04:06

yeah, I mean, you're fortunate. I can't play

1:04:08

massively fortunate. But I mean, is that one

1:04:10

of the reasons why you didn't stay on

1:04:12

network? I mean, did that factor into... No.

1:04:16

Like, why didn't... No, I didn't stay at the Daily Show

1:04:18

because John was still there and... No, but even if you

1:04:20

were set up to be the next guy, did that

1:04:23

factor into your decision not to follow up

1:04:25

on that? The next guy for... To host

1:04:27

a show, to Daily Show. Daily

1:04:29

Show? Yeah. I

1:04:31

think it was clear when we

1:04:33

would... Because my contract expired at the

1:04:36

end of the year that I hosted

1:04:39

for John over that summer. Yeah. And

1:04:42

I think it became clear at the end of that that they

1:04:44

didn't really care about me. Oh, really? Okay.

1:04:46

Because I think our idea for me to stay, this

1:04:49

is our idea being just John and I, was that

1:04:51

I would do the summers from now on. And then

1:04:53

so he could take the summers off,

1:04:55

which means he wanted a break. I think they could

1:04:57

have had him for longer if they'd allowed that, but

1:04:59

they were not interested in that at all. So then

1:05:02

it becomes clear, oh, then you really

1:05:04

don't care. Which is fine, but

1:05:06

it is now painfully obvious. So

1:05:08

I should probably go somewhere else. And

1:05:12

then, yeah, talking to various commercial

1:05:14

outlets, there was just an innate instinct

1:05:16

of I could do this, I don't

1:05:18

think it'll go great. There

1:05:21

might be a way that I can find myself to do the

1:05:23

things that I used to love Letterman, when

1:05:26

he's just criticizing his parent company.

1:05:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was the

1:05:31

model? But I don't have the letter.

1:05:33

No, no, no, I just always loved

1:05:35

that instinct with him. But I had

1:05:37

no standing with us to do that.

1:05:39

So a much easier move, the luxury

1:05:41

move to me was to go to

1:05:43

HBO where there is no commercial pressure

1:05:46

from advertisers. You truly can say what you

1:05:49

want. And therefore, you

1:05:51

should probably use

1:05:54

that. And it works out. Yeah,

1:05:56

some would disagree.

1:06:00

This is the piece of shit. No, who

1:06:02

would ever say that? It's been like a

1:06:04

decade, right? How long has it been? Yeah,

1:06:06

10 years. But so that is why when

1:06:09

we're force feeding our audience on stories about

1:06:11

prison, labor, prison, health care, solitary confinement,

1:06:14

things that they do just to do

1:06:16

criminal justice stories, things that

1:06:18

you know they're not that

1:06:20

interesting to hear about. But you think they're important. Yeah,

1:06:23

they really do think they're important. So we're

1:06:25

going to we're in the position where we

1:06:27

are able to force feed.

1:06:29

Yeah. An audience so we do it. Yeah,

1:06:31

it's good. It's like it's important.

1:06:33

It's like how they you know I think it don't

1:06:35

they feed pigs like that. Don't they? Isn't

1:06:38

that how foie gras you speak? Yeah,

1:06:40

we're trying to make it kind of

1:06:43

comedic foie gras. Yeah. So the smashing

1:06:45

story about Gaza down in audiences. Until

1:06:48

their liver explodes in good. What

1:06:50

a delicious liver. So

1:06:54

how is the so how old are the kids? Eight

1:06:57

and five. Now how is it like is that

1:07:00

I mean, how old are you? I mean, you didn't wait that

1:07:02

long. You're a young man. Oh, so you did

1:07:04

it at the right time. Yeah. Yeah. You're right

1:07:06

on schedule. Good view. Yeah, I fell on

1:07:08

schedule. Yeah. So I mean, I mean, the

1:07:10

truth is it didn't feel on schedule. I

1:07:12

didn't feel like I was ready for it

1:07:14

at all. But I think numerically it was

1:07:16

on schedule. Yeah. Emotionally I was terrified. Okay.

1:07:18

So but you're done with that or is

1:07:21

every day an horror show? Oh,

1:07:23

I mean, it's not not a horror show. No, but I mean.

1:07:25

I'm anxious about it all the time. In terms of your fears

1:07:27

heading into it, did you

1:07:29

take to it pretty easily? Oh,

1:07:33

that's a good question. I

1:07:38

mean, I didn't take to it. I

1:07:41

guess. Yes. Yes.

1:07:43

Generally. Although that pause really

1:07:46

puts an asterisk on the yes. I guess the truth

1:07:48

is that I didn't interrupt that part as well. I

1:07:52

just was. My son. Yeah.

1:07:55

First of all, he was born very prematurely. So.

1:07:57

Oh, that's very scary. So it's yeah. It's

1:08:01

terrifying. So it's a supercharge

1:08:04

of anxieties. So I was

1:08:07

very worried about him before

1:08:09

he was born and for a year after

1:08:12

he was born, really worried about him. He

1:08:15

all right? Yeah, he's fine. He's fine. And

1:08:18

so I was worried about him long past the

1:08:20

point that doctors were saying, no,

1:08:22

we're good. You go, really? We'll

1:08:24

see about that. Because I

1:08:26

can manifest some very different

1:08:28

specific answers that's going to

1:08:30

happen here. So yeah, I

1:08:33

love them so much. And

1:08:35

that love is physically painful in a way that I

1:08:37

think is to any parent. But

1:08:40

it was, yeah, I think that

1:08:42

made, it was not

1:08:44

the smoothest entry into parenting. Into

1:08:47

parenting, yeah. Because it was so fraught. Yes,

1:08:49

it was fraught. It was incredibly fraught. And

1:08:52

but the kid's good. Yeah, he's great. Yeah,

1:08:55

I love him. And the other one came out good.

1:08:58

The doctors literally said that. Came out

1:09:00

good. Congrats.

1:09:04

There's two boys? Yeah. Oh, wow. Two boys,

1:09:06

yeah. That's all that. Yeah. Yeah,

1:09:08

they're fantastic. And has it, what

1:09:11

has it done to your point

1:09:14

of view? I

1:09:17

don't know if it's done much. No.

1:09:20

Instinctively to my point of view. You mean

1:09:22

the urgency of things. How

1:09:26

do you confront what you're confronting? What

1:09:28

do you do with your kid? I

1:09:30

think ideally it would affect my risk

1:09:33

management equation, but it really hasn't. Well,

1:09:36

there's that. But also I wonder, somebody

1:09:38

who is balancing

1:09:41

this information and also

1:09:44

has an intellectual capacity to understand

1:09:46

what's going on. You're engaged with

1:09:48

it in a very

1:09:51

daily way. Where

1:09:54

do you find the hope?

1:09:57

Oh, you mean how do you parent? I'm going

1:09:59

to get. So eight and five, I'm not,

1:10:02

there's not many, not lying. I

1:10:07

really don't do that, but I

1:10:09

do try only to answer their questions and

1:10:11

then not just give them more information. So

1:10:13

Q and A? So Q and A. So Q

1:10:15

and A. That's

1:10:22

basically Q and A. I

1:10:25

don't have like a tight hour on what

1:10:27

it is to be a- A

1:10:30

young male American. I just say, what do

1:10:32

you got? What

1:10:34

are you concerned about? All

1:10:36

right, I can give you a quick 30 second answer

1:10:39

on that and we'll both pretend it's something. It's

1:10:42

basically Q and A. Avoid

1:10:46

any kind of prior effort. Just let me just react to

1:10:48

where you are. Right. And when does

1:10:50

the real responsibility- I don't know. Like in

1:10:52

terms of- I don't know. In terms of

1:10:54

like, we gotta sit down. Well, I was

1:10:57

gonna say, I got very, like as

1:10:59

horrendous as it was practically

1:11:02

in those early pandemic

1:11:04

days. I knew, I was in a

1:11:06

very fortunate position. They were four and two then. They're

1:11:08

probably not gonna remember any of it. Right. And-

1:11:11

If it doesn't last, why am I gonna be okay? Yeah, and

1:11:13

even knowing, oh, this is probably gonna last a couple of years.

1:11:15

Yeah. Still, this

1:11:17

is, they're gonna remember

1:11:19

very little of this. Right, it's not gonna

1:11:21

destroy it. Holy shit. I was grateful for

1:11:23

that. Yeah. It

1:11:26

felt very different looking at, or imagining

1:11:28

what it would be like

1:11:30

as a teenager or as an parent of a teenager. Yeah.

1:11:33

Oh shit, actually. I don't know how

1:11:36

to answer- Yeah, yeah. What

1:11:38

you're asking right now. Right. Without

1:11:41

falling apart. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:11:43

So that's coming. So I think it's coming, but

1:11:45

it's not there yet. And I'll put it off.

1:11:47

Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah,

1:11:50

I don't know. It's like, yeah,

1:11:52

there just seems to be a lot in the balance.

1:11:54

And it

1:11:56

feels to me that, you

1:11:59

know, the fortitude- attitude, you

1:12:01

know, that like, you know, my producer, who you

1:12:03

know, Brendan, you know, he, you

1:12:06

know, he's got it in his head that like, you

1:12:08

know, we've been lucky, you know, and he look

1:12:10

around the world. True. And it sort

1:12:12

of might be our turn. Oh, sure.

1:12:15

And pause Roy's and pause full. Right.

1:12:18

So there's that, you

1:12:20

know, that kind of, you know, preemptive. Yeah,

1:12:22

that's something though. You know, it is. Yeah,

1:12:25

it is. And

1:12:27

then for me, like, oddly,

1:12:31

when I look at my recent specials, and I look at

1:12:33

what I've talked about, what I get passionate about, like, I

1:12:35

feel like I've said my piece. And

1:12:37

you know, I don't do the kind of show where I'm going to say it

1:12:39

every fucking show. And then there comes

1:12:41

to a point that's sort of like, you know, I've never been

1:12:43

doing light entertainment. Do

1:12:45

you know what I mean? No one would ever have accused you

1:12:47

of that. Yeah. But like, I mean, at

1:12:49

any point. No, absolutely. Absolutely.

1:12:52

And I agree with you. Even when light requirement

1:12:55

was required. I'll tell you, man. I've

1:12:57

been doing this joke and, you know, and like

1:12:59

Chris Rock was in the room the other night,

1:13:01

you know, and, you know, I

1:13:03

did this bit that I've been doing for weeks now, and

1:13:06

he gave me a tag. And

1:13:09

it was a tag I would never have

1:13:11

come up with because I don't use much

1:13:13

cultural reference because like I'm in my own

1:13:15

fucking world. It's just not

1:13:17

the type of comedy I do. But it's a cultural

1:13:19

reference and it fucking kills. And

1:13:22

I realized like, you know, this has been

1:13:24

the key. Like, you know, I am

1:13:26

rendering it down to, you know, to

1:13:28

a risky philosophical idea most of the

1:13:30

time that should get a laugh, you

1:13:33

know, just in the way I frame it. But I don't

1:13:35

just have any trivial fun things. Yeah,

1:13:37

but that's, you know,

1:13:39

that's what certain

1:13:42

people, I would be more than like about you,

1:13:44

right? I guess so. It's

1:13:46

a specific type of person. Yeah, it's a specific.

1:13:48

The way I picture it going for me because

1:13:50

I don't have this massive audience or massive nut

1:13:53

or a bunch of people I make money for.

1:13:55

It's not like I feel like I've done my

1:13:57

bit. Right. And I

1:13:59

can. stop you're ready to as a comedian

1:14:01

as it like an animal to crawl into

1:14:03

the woods and say okay not die but

1:14:06

crawl into the woods and maybe I did

1:14:08

say die you forget about just crawl into

1:14:10

the woods and yeah look at some trees

1:14:12

sure yeah that kind of thing yeah yeah

1:14:14

but is that copying out is it cowardry

1:14:16

I don't think that's covered out at all

1:14:18

is it I don't know say like what

1:14:21

happened to the good fight you know what the good fight is

1:14:23

no yeah I don't know

1:14:25

fighting the good fight you're fighting the good fight

1:14:27

is there a good fight that has to be

1:14:29

fought oh yeah there

1:14:31

are thousands I know now I know and I

1:14:34

barely fought any of them and

1:14:36

the abroad strokes I you

1:14:38

you fought the good fight against yourself

1:14:40

we kind of civil

1:14:42

war that you fought yeah has been relentless

1:14:44

yeah and and incredible

1:14:47

yeah both sides are exhausted the

1:14:49

north of the south they're exactly

1:14:51

are we done yet yeah no

1:14:53

one is picked up any new

1:14:56

territory the whole thing seemed futile definitely

1:14:59

it was of an emotional quagmire yeah what you've

1:15:01

been fighting yeah yeah I will say like to

1:15:03

go into what you were just saying yeah which

1:15:05

is kind of related to what we started

1:15:07

talking about yeah wait when when

1:15:10

asked about when

1:15:12

I when I think about those questions that might be

1:15:15

coming from my kids yeah I do

1:15:17

think there will be a value even as

1:15:19

frustrating as I know you find it to

1:15:21

giving historical context for how we got here

1:15:23

so even as you're describing to the mess

1:15:26

that they're currently here in yeah their country's

1:15:28

coming in it's gonna be really important to

1:15:31

explain why because otherwise it seems

1:15:33

inexplicable and it isn't right there's precedent all the

1:15:35

way that's right you should give your kids a

1:15:38

good sense of who to blame yeah but

1:15:40

but I was I felt shortchange just as a

1:15:42

British person not having a fully developed

1:15:45

sense of British history yeah

1:15:47

what it meant because it's so much of it there's so

1:15:49

much you're right but it's very very easy

1:15:51

to because there's so much of it to focus on

1:15:55

the good bits yeah which are good

1:15:57

yeah they actually don't speak to like

1:15:59

what why Britain is how it is.

1:16:01

So the basic things that

1:16:03

I was taught in history, lessons at school, kind

1:16:05

of came around the same story. Industrial Revolution, Second

1:16:07

World War. Both of those things, the macro story

1:16:09

is it was hard, but we got it done.

1:16:12

We did the right thing. So you don't

1:16:14

talk about colonialism or imperialism? No. I mean,

1:16:16

really didn't talk about it, though. Really didn't.

1:16:18

And that is a colossal short change. You

1:16:20

feel the absence of it now. My friend,

1:16:22

you would like it. A friend that went

1:16:24

to college with Satinath Sanker, a great book

1:16:26

called Empire Land, which is basically filling in

1:16:28

the gaps that we

1:16:31

had through the deficiency in the

1:16:33

way that British history was taught

1:16:35

in our schools. And it fully,

1:16:37

and it's a very readable book. It's

1:16:40

crazy when you're taking on something that's

1:16:42

so sprawling. It helps you understand why

1:16:44

Britain is the way it is right

1:16:46

now and that there are answers to

1:16:48

those questions that are not just, well, we had an

1:16:51

empire and then it was taken away from

1:16:53

us. Right.

1:16:55

It didn't collapse. Yeah. And I felt

1:16:57

at the end of that book, both

1:17:00

massively more able

1:17:02

to understand the country that

1:17:05

brought me up. And also

1:17:07

pretty angry at the fact

1:17:09

that I'm learning some of this in

1:17:12

my mid-40s. And that this, I think

1:17:14

that is changing. If you're looking for hope, he's

1:17:17

written a children's version of this book as well for

1:17:19

kind of like 12 or 13 year olds. And

1:17:22

he's done a really good job at meeting

1:17:25

them where they are and kind of just

1:17:27

walking them into some things they might be

1:17:30

interested in, giving them some ways to go

1:17:32

and look at more of this if they want to now

1:17:34

or maybe later. But that's changing. Young kids'

1:17:38

relationships in Britain with Britain's

1:17:41

past is different now in a way

1:17:43

that is far more informed and probably

1:17:45

does bode better for the future because

1:17:47

they have that context. Yeah, but state

1:17:49

by state here, that book, if

1:17:51

it was relative to American history, would be

1:17:53

banned. And that's a massive problem because you

1:17:56

cannot... It is understandable.

1:17:58

Yeah. They

1:18:00

want people to have a better history than

1:18:03

the one they actually do have, but it's

1:18:05

fucking dangerous because you

1:18:07

are setting them up for failure or

1:18:10

disaster in the future. Or

1:18:12

complete denial. Yeah, because you get very good. Again,

1:18:14

America gets defensive and the world honours the shining

1:18:16

city on the hill. Sure,

1:18:18

not no, but it's other things

1:18:20

as well. Yeah.

1:18:22

Yeah. I don't know the

1:18:25

ability to shoulder that stuff. I

1:18:28

don't know what is really contentious

1:18:30

out there and what isn't. I know

1:18:33

what kind of pulsates through. That's my

1:18:35

phone. Right. But I don't know

1:18:37

what. That's right. That is hard to tell, isn't it?

1:18:39

And I think we're probably going to get a

1:18:41

weaponised version of that over the next year. In

1:18:43

election season, you don't know. Do

1:18:46

you give a shit as much as you

1:18:48

think you do about bathroom bills? Or

1:18:50

is this horse shit? Do

1:18:52

you really care about this? Maybe.

1:18:56

I actually don't know the answer to that. It feels fraudulent

1:18:58

to me. I

1:19:01

think what might be the case is that the people

1:19:03

really stoking the flames on that couldn't

1:19:06

give a fuck. Of course. The

1:19:08

people that listen to them all of a sudden do. And then

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you've got a problem. Well, right. They tell

1:19:12

you it's all this sort of, they want to be worked

1:19:14

up. It's all

1:19:16

this general grievance. Just this broad

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grievance ideology. I'm

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getting fucked somehow and this

1:19:24

guy seems mad. Right. You're

1:19:27

complaining about grievance. The pipe of

1:19:30

grievance. No, you're

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the shining angry city

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on a hill for this. I think that

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I'm a completely objective narrator

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of what's going on with our culture. Why are

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these people so mad? I

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mean, just listen to the tone of

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voice in which you're saying that. Physician, hillbilly.

1:19:50

Oh, I know. But you know, this is... I know

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exactly what you mean. I'm just... I

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know. I'm

1:19:56

pretty sensitive. I enjoy getting worked up. But

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you know ultimately that is the difference in it. Yeah, you

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are really sensitive. Yeah And I

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don't think people are and I don't think people are

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innately good. I think they're innately sad and You

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know what they do with that sadness is to avoid

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it is the danger. I think

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There was something that I was seeing

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happening in front of me that Denzel

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and Morgan and Jimmy and Andre that they

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were, they heard something. They were...

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It's their history. It was their history. And

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in fact, I initially may

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have been timid or hesitant to

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my own grandfather and how easily it would

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have been for me to lapse into that

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sort of shtetl dialect. Because

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it was available to me in the same way this

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is all available to them. It comes down to the

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generation. It's right there. Yeah. So

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what I did and this

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is something I'm... proud of in the movie, which is

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I resisted these impulses to

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I did not. In fact, I

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Monday's episode. And then after that, it's

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all Oscar nominees all the time for

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be. Here you go. Let's

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go on that strap, please. Boomer

1:26:16

lives, Monkey and LaFonda, Cat

1:26:18

Angels everywhere.