0:00

Fuck the game! All

0:09

right, let's do this. How are you?

0:11

What the fuckers? What the fuck buddies?

0:14

What the fuckniks? What the fucksters? What's

0:16

happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my

0:18

podcast. I am broadcasting from a hotel

0:20

room in Wisconsin.

0:23

Madison, Wisconsin. We almost didn't make it

0:25

in. We almost didn't make it

0:28

in. It's snowing.

0:30

Fuck, I'd forgotten, you know, not

0:33

so much, but you get

0:35

into April and

0:37

you kind of think like, where I will be. It'll be

0:39

nice in spring. Look at the

0:41

lake, walk around the Capitol, but

0:44

it's just windy and fucking wet and snowy.

0:46

It looks like it's breaking a little bit.

0:48

If you hear some wind, it's outside of

0:50

my window. But you

0:52

know, I guess I'm evolving

0:56

around losing

0:59

my mind because of things

1:01

out of my control, because

1:03

of the force majeure

1:06

idea of what can

1:08

and can't be done and also weighing

1:10

what is the worst that can really

1:12

happen here? You know, what is, what's

1:14

at stake really? But,

1:16

uh, but looking back at my life, I

1:19

wonder, I've got to do a Google search. I should

1:21

have done it before I got on the podcast about

1:23

the effect of panic and

1:26

anxiety over the longterm

1:28

on the vessel we reside in

1:30

that our skin bag.

1:33

You know what I'm saying? I, I'm not

1:35

sure I want to look at that because I'm looking back

1:37

at my life and it's, it's fucking crazy.

1:40

The amount of cortisol I've jammed through

1:42

my system. Anyway, uh, maybe I'll talk

1:44

more about that. I don't know.

1:46

It's sort of on my mind lately, but today

1:48

on the show, I talked to Dina Hashem. Uh,

1:51

she's a comic, she's a writer. She opened for me

1:53

a few times. Uh, she was with me at the

1:55

Beacon theater in New York. I think she was with

1:58

me out here once at a comedy on. She

2:01

recently released her first stand-up hour on Prime

2:03

Video. It's called Dark Little

2:05

Whispers. It was an interesting conversation. I

2:07

didn't know what to expect because she's

2:09

kind of a... She's

2:11

got a quiet style, so

2:13

I didn't know how it

2:15

would go in regular conversation, but it was pretty great.

2:18

So that's coming down the

2:21

chute here in a few minutes. But

2:24

let's discuss this because

2:26

I don't know, man. I think I've

2:29

had it for a long time,

2:31

this panic problem. But

2:34

I don't know if it's panic, panic. I don't

2:37

know the difference between panic and anxiety. Is there

2:39

a difference between panic and

2:41

anxiety? I don't

2:43

know. I just seem to be overwhelmed very

2:45

quickly. And because there's some things going on

2:49

possibly in my career that

2:51

are big things, and when I

2:53

got the opportunity, my first reaction was like, No,

2:57

no, no, I've got

2:59

to... What am I going to do with

3:02

the cats? How am I going to live

3:04

my life? I

3:06

mean, look, I've got a lot of things going

3:08

on. I wake up, I go to the gym,

3:11

I have coffee, and then

3:13

I hang around, I do things around the house,

3:15

and then I interview people, and

3:17

then I have a pattern. I have a

3:19

routine. It's hard enough for me to just

3:21

get my brain together to get out there

3:24

on the road. So

3:26

everything comes at this

3:28

intensity. Anything, anything.

3:31

And there's a lot of things I've just learned that I have

3:33

to do, and there's the

3:36

jobs that I do, and I do them, and

3:39

some of them have gotten easier, but there's

3:41

still this sort of undercurrent of like, Oh,

3:43

fuck, fuck. What is that? How

3:46

much time do I have before it happens? Oh my God.

3:49

Just like crazy, and that can go on

3:51

for months. It's an internal

3:53

dialogue. I'm not really sharing

3:55

that with anybody. I guess that's a shift from when

3:58

I was younger, and I'm not really sharing that with

4:00

anybody. relationships that I've had in my life because you

4:02

know if you have someone in your life and

4:04

you're a nut job in terms of

4:07

anxiety and panic and

4:09

if someone's there you're gonna

4:11

bring them into it come on in welcome

4:13

to the ride I hope it's not too

4:15

crazy for you but I lose

4:18

my mind sometimes for days weeks hours

4:20

and I just want you to

4:22

be part of that it's exhausting and it's

4:24

really not your job but hey we're together

4:26

let's let's ride it out and then once

4:28

you get through it you

4:30

being me and you're

4:33

on the other side of it it's like it's never happened

4:35

and then you're just sitting with an exhausted person who's

4:37

saying like I don't know if I can do

4:39

this anymore and that's where

4:42

you learn boundaries you know in a relationship

4:44

yeah it's yeah it's

4:46

uh it's been a long haul

4:48

and and mostly it's an internal

4:50

dialogue unless it really overflows into

4:53

my life and I think

4:55

I've been like this so long and I'm trying to track

4:57

it you know I talked to Brendan about it and

4:59

you know some of

5:01

it has to do with this you know

5:04

vague future I guess we all have a

5:07

vague future none of us really know

5:09

what's gonna happen to us in

5:11

our lives you know in the world but you

5:13

can put parameters on it you can make

5:16

goals and you can say I'm

5:18

doing this then and this then and this then and

5:21

and this is how this is gonna happen and I've set

5:23

it up but even if all that's in place for me

5:25

it's really like what am I doing tomorrow I'm

5:27

flying to Texas how did I not know

5:30

that it's been on your schedule for months

5:32

I'm like oh my god and I

5:34

don't know what that is about me I

5:36

don't think it's irresponsible it's just you know

5:38

I'm overwhelmed all the fucking time and I

5:40

imagine this is a normal thing but

5:42

the idea that if I had some real sense of

5:45

what I wanted to do down the line would

5:47

maybe kind of buffer the anxiety

5:50

of anything that's happened in the present I

5:52

guess as maybe a like well eventually I'm

5:54

gonna do this or eventually I'll be here

5:57

and it's relatively set in stone yeah we

6:00

with exceptions around health

6:02

or something amazing happening

6:04

or something horrible happening. I

6:06

think people with families and

6:09

plans for retirement or even

6:11

vacations, probably it tempers

6:15

that overwhelming feeling of

6:17

anxiety with everything. Look,

6:19

I'm telling you right now, once I get to where

6:21

I'm going or I'm doing what it is I've

6:24

been dreading, I'm good. I'm fine.

6:27

I'm in it and I enjoy it. There's something about

6:29

being panicked all the time that keeps you in the

6:31

present in a way even though you're reacting to things

6:33

that aren't happening. But I don't know.

6:37

Once I'm there, I'm good. And then

6:39

all of that for naught, I guess, or maybe

6:41

it's just my preparation. I don't know. It's

6:44

not intentional preparation, but it is how I've been doing

6:46

it for a long time. But I do know

6:49

now as I get older that

6:52

it's a bit exhausting and

6:54

I'm fucking tired of it. But

6:57

it's always there. I used

6:59

to be terrified to fly. I mean

7:02

fucking terrified to the point where

7:04

before a flight I would stay up all

7:06

night or I'd get drunk as shit or

7:08

I'd take drugs, anything to get

7:10

through the flight. No matter what I did, I

7:12

wouldn't sleep on the plane because of the panic

7:15

and the fear. And I don't

7:17

know how that went away. I think

7:19

part of it was just that, look, it

7:22

was almost a spiritual lesson where

7:24

once that plane takes off or even

7:26

once the door closes, unless you're a

7:28

lunatic, it's out of your control. There's

7:31

nothing you can do. You can't fly the plane. There's nothing

7:33

you can do. And I think

7:35

that's kind of wired into me

7:38

now. But when I'm on a plane

7:40

and we take off,

7:42

I'm definitely not comfortable

7:45

and I'm thinking about what are the

7:47

thoughts that come in. Oh, hitting another

7:50

plane is one. The moment of realizing

7:52

you're going down is another. The

7:54

sort of processing and accepting that

7:58

it's a pretty unlucky. way

8:00

to die but I guess this is the

8:02

way it is and just picturing the terror. Picturing

8:05

terror. On all,

8:08

this happens with everything to one degree or

8:10

another. What is the horrible

8:12

thing that's going to happen and live

8:14

in it? And I don't

8:16

know what that's about. I guess

8:18

it's more defined than, hey man,

8:20

everything's pretty good and I'm having

8:22

a nice flight or I'm having

8:24

a nice wife. You know,

8:27

that seems more challenging because I don't have

8:29

an immediate way to process that as

8:32

something I think about or live

8:34

in. But just sort of like, we're all

8:36

gonna fucking die is, well

8:39

that's pretty straight up. It's

8:41

conclusive, it's concrete. We're

8:45

all gonna fucking die in my head. Imagine

8:47

me through all those years of doing,

8:51

starting to do comedy. Just

8:53

the anxiety and the terror of

8:56

going on stage just to do five minutes

8:58

when I was starting out would go on

9:00

for weeks. All that fucking cortisol and insanity.

9:03

You know, just like fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck,

9:05

fuck. And I bring it in for five

9:07

minutes. So I

9:09

guess I must be an addict. I'm

9:12

addicted to panic and whatever

9:15

happens in my brain chemically from that

9:17

panic. Maybe that's it? I

9:19

don't know. But the memory that I sort of

9:21

locked into when I

9:23

was thinking about this stuff, sitting

9:25

here in my hotel room in

9:27

Wisconsin, I just went to the

9:29

gym down there, is that

9:32

when my parents, when I was a kid,

9:34

I would say maybe nine or ten. Let's

9:36

go with nine or ten. And

9:40

I remember there was one time that my

9:42

parents went on a trip to

9:45

Hawaii and the woman that used

9:47

to clean the house, this

9:49

old woman, Carmen, she

9:52

was half sitting. She

9:54

was babysitting my brother and I. And

9:56

my parents left emergency numbers, you know,

9:59

in Hawaii, I

10:03

remember that because as soon as they left,

10:07

I couldn't get out of my head the

10:09

idea that their plane

10:11

crashed in the ocean. And

10:14

it was just debilitating,

10:18

just thinking about them crashing into the ocean, the plane

10:20

at the bottom of the ocean. I could not get

10:22

it out of my head. The

10:24

anxiety and the panic and the fear, the crying,

10:26

the insanity that went on for days, and after

10:28

the plane landed because they had to come back.

10:31

To the point where I got sick, I

10:34

vomited, I couldn't go to school, I

10:36

was paralyzed with

10:40

panic. Had to call

10:42

the emergency number and make sure they

10:44

were okay. It was crazy. And

10:47

at 10, I don't know

10:50

if that's unusual or whether or not I should have

10:52

had more separation from them, but

10:54

it was also just about knowing they were

10:56

around. It wasn't like they were that attentive.

10:58

My dad was hardly ever home and my

11:00

mom was in her own world in

11:02

a way, but they were around. And

11:05

I realized that's exactly the same thing

11:08

now. It's like it's my cats, it's

11:10

my house, it's my car, it's my

11:12

dumb routine, it's my cooking. It's

11:14

around. They're around and there's a consistency

11:16

to it. And once I shift out

11:19

of that, until I ground

11:21

myself in whatever I'm doing, I'm fucking

11:23

nuts. I

11:25

stifle it, I keep it to

11:27

myself and I manage it. I

11:29

self-parent around that stuff and

11:32

realize that I have years

11:35

and years of experience in doing this

11:37

stuff. There's plenty of precedent set for

11:39

me surviving, but the

11:42

anxiety is real. And some

11:44

of it has gotten a little worse lately. Tonight,

11:47

I'm in Milwaukee, Wisconsin at the

11:49

Turner Hall Ballroom. Tomorrow, I'm in

11:51

Chicago at the Vic Theater, Minneapolis

11:53

at the Pantages Theater. This Saturday,

11:55

April 6th, Austin,

11:57

Texas at the Paramount Theater on Thursday, April

11:59

18th. as part of the Moon Tower

12:01

Comedy Festival of Montclair, New Jersey

12:03

on Thursday, May 2nd

12:05

at the Wellmont Center, Glenside, Pennsylvania

12:08

in the Philadelphia area on Friday, May

12:11

3rd at the Keswick Theater. It's not

12:13

only it's not Keswick. Is that

12:15

right? One person said it's

12:17

Keswick because it's British and that still

12:19

doesn't make sense. Washington, DC on Saturday,

12:21

May 4th at the Warner Theater, Monhau,

12:23

Pennsylvania outside Pittsburgh on May 9th at

12:26

the Carnegie Library Music Hall, Cleveland,

12:29

Ohio on May 10th at the Playhouse Square,

12:31

Detroit, Michigan on May 11th at the Royal

12:33

Oak Music Theater. Go to wtfpod.com

12:36

for all of my dates and

12:38

links to tickets. Folks listen, I'm

12:40

not great at decisions. Clearly. Sometimes

12:43

there are too many choices and I get overwhelmed.

12:45

Other times I have a hard time picking

12:47

between two things, but every now and then there's

12:49

a decision that's a no-brainer. And I can tell

12:51

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13:48

So I flew out of Chicago to

13:51

come here to

13:54

Madison, Wisconsin. Now I don't know why. I

13:57

was going to rent a car here in Madison and drive to the other

13:59

gigs with my... opener, Ali Makovsky.

14:04

For some reason, we were booked to fly

14:06

from Chicago to Madison once we landed in

14:08

Chicago. Now sometimes,

14:11

most of the time, technology is

14:13

kind of fucking amazing when I

14:15

really think about it because I don't

14:18

need to think about it that much. Look, I'm on

14:20

a microphone in a fucking hotel room and you're going

14:22

to hear this tomorrow. I mean, it's fucking nuts. But

14:25

just relative to panic and to the

14:27

past and to be being old enough

14:29

to remember life without

14:31

certain things. I

14:33

was on the plane. I was online on

14:36

the plane. I got a text

14:38

from American Airlines that the flight from

14:41

Chicago to Madison had been canceled

14:43

because of weather. And

14:46

then from there, we were able to see if

14:48

there was another flight. There was only a full

14:50

flight. And then from there, and this is in

14:52

the air. I was like, I'll just rent a

14:54

fucking car in Chicago. I don't even know why

14:56

we're flying to Madison anyways. How

14:58

bad could the weather be? Let's just

15:00

get a small SUV and fucking do

15:03

it. We're landing at like

15:05

seven. It's not going to be like the middle

15:07

of the night. So I was able to secure a

15:09

car at Hertz on the plane. And

15:12

I know this just seems like practical stuff or

15:14

if you're working on the road. But

15:17

back in the day, holy fuck,

15:19

man. I mean, think about

15:22

it. We would have

15:24

landed in Chicago. We would have gone to the

15:26

board. It would have said that flight was canceled.

15:28

We would have been like, fuck, what

15:30

the fuck are we going to do? And then we

15:32

would have scrambled to see at the American desk, when's

15:34

the next flight? Probably not till tomorrow. Oh, it looks

15:37

like there's a United flight. We would have fucking

15:39

run over to the United terminal to see if we could

15:41

get on that flight. And then it was

15:43

sold out. We found that out online. And so we

15:45

would have been like, well, fuck, I guess we got

15:48

to get a hotel or just try to rent a

15:50

car. But this whole process would have taken hours and

15:52

the stress of it, if you're someone like me, would

15:54

have been a fucking nightmare. There would have been running

15:56

in the airport, running in

15:59

the airport. is not someplace that

16:01

I want to be. But we

16:03

just fucking worked it out. We got

16:06

the car, we ended up eating, it's

16:08

so weird. There's actually a restaurant at

16:10

the Chicago at O'Hare in

16:12

the American terminal that I look forward

16:14

to eating at. Is that bizarre? You

16:17

know, because Ali was texting me on the

16:19

plane, like, can we drive into Chicago and

16:21

get some dinner? And I'm like, that's 45

16:24

minutes the other direction from the airport. And

16:26

I was like, but you know what? There's a

16:29

great restaurant at

16:31

O'Hare. You know, it's

16:33

that, what's that guy's name? Is it Rick Bayless?

16:35

Is that, he's got a

16:37

Mexican sandwich shop called Torta over

16:40

in terminal, I don't know what terminal

16:42

it was, but it was American. It

16:44

was literally right outside the

16:46

gate that we walked

16:49

out of. So because we were able to set

16:51

everything up on the plane

16:53

and get our fucking ducks in a row with

16:55

the car, I

16:57

said, I told Hertz, we'd pick it up at

16:59

seven. And it

17:01

was like, we actually had a leisurely

17:03

dinner and it was very good. These

17:07

sandwiches, I might've eaten a little cheese. I think

17:09

I picked most of it off. I fucked up,

17:11

but I got the vegetarian set. Don't tell anybody.

17:13

It's not the same. It's

17:16

not drugs. It's

17:18

not drugs. Because Ali

17:20

said, is this a cheese lapse? I'm like, no,

17:22

it's not, I'll be all right, I'll live. It's

17:24

not like I'm gonna eat

17:27

a piece of cheese by accident or have something with

17:29

some egg in it. And then

17:31

the next day, just be sitting in my

17:33

hotel room with a full

17:37

barbecue pork ass, just

17:40

sitting there with an entire

17:42

rotisserie chicken in my

17:44

underwear covered in grease, just

17:46

like eating it. I'm like, I don't know what happened,

17:49

man. I have one piece of cheese and this is

17:51

where I'm at. This is where I'm at. I don't

17:53

think I can get back, man. Where's the ham? I

17:57

don't think that's gonna be what happens. But anyways,

17:59

the point is. is that we actually

18:01

had dinner on purpose at

18:03

an airport and we didn't even have to. We

18:06

could, usually at an airport, like

18:09

let's get going, let's get out, let's get on

18:11

the next plane. It's

18:13

a transitional space. But I'm

18:15

like, no, this is a good sandwich and we've got to drive

18:17

for a couple of hours. Let's sit down

18:19

and eat at O'Hare. And

18:22

here I am. This

18:24

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19:26

All right? Okay. So

19:28

look, you guys. Dina

19:31

Hashem, very funny, very smart,

19:34

comedian, writer. I

19:37

didn't know what to expect and I'd hung out with

19:39

her before because she opened for me, but this was

19:41

a great conversation. It

19:43

was very charming, very funny, very smart.

19:45

I enjoyed it. And

19:47

you can watch her stand-up special, Dark Little Whispers

19:50

on Prime Video. Here we go. What's

20:03

happening? Do you come out here often?

20:06

No, almost never. How does it feel for you?

20:09

Um, it's well, actually I really

20:11

love it because of one

20:14

reason in particular. The English muffin place? No,

20:16

it's even better than that. It's the Round

20:18

One arcade at Burbank Mall. Come

20:21

on. Listen, I could talk about

20:23

it first. Wait, the Round One arcade,

20:25

like it's an old-timey arcade with the...

20:27

No, it's like an update. It's like, okay, so

20:30

Round One is a chain of arcades around

20:32

the country. There's not enough. There's

20:34

only like, I don't know, maybe 30 locations across

20:36

the country. There's not one in New York, which

20:38

is very important, which is why I'm excited to

20:41

be here. And what's special about it is it

20:43

has this game called Gita Joya, which

20:45

is a drumming rhythm game.

20:47

And it's like Guitar Hero, but it's

20:50

for the drums, and it has a

20:52

full Yamaha electronic drum kit. So

20:55

if you play this game for a thousand hours like I

20:57

have, it teaches you how to play the drums. Is

20:59

that where you learn to play drums? Yeah.

21:01

Stop it. I swear. On

21:04

that game. Yes. And anyone can

21:06

learn if you just go to the Burbank Mall and you spend lots and

21:08

lots of money. Well, how do you stand

21:10

in technique against other drummers in general? In

21:12

conversation, perhaps? Well, of

21:15

course my technique is not good.

21:18

But I actually just took my first real drum

21:20

lesson, and he was like, just play around when

21:22

you watch it and I'll tell you what you're

21:24

doing wrong. Yeah. So I played for

21:26

a little bit, and he's like, yeah, you know what you're

21:28

doing. And so we just, I stopped the lessons because he's

21:30

like, if you want to get better, you just need to

21:32

practice on your own. Like, obviously I'm not like amazing. No,

21:35

I know. But I watch at the end of the special, you just

21:37

kind of kick out the drums. I didn't know anything about that. Yeah.

21:41

And it's like what you do. The most fun part

21:43

about doing the special is recording that song. I

21:45

could tell. Really? Yeah.

21:47

I think it's obvious. Well,

21:50

no, it's just a funny kind

21:52

of juxtaposition. Like, I mean, we work together, when

21:54

was that? At the Beacon? At the Beacon. Was

21:57

that at the Beacon and then in Madison? In Madison, exactly,

21:59

yeah. I can't remember were you in Madison

22:01

or did you come out to do that? No I came and

22:03

we hung out That was fun.

22:05

But like and the beacon was fun But

22:08

like I'm watching you on the special and you

22:10

know, I I know your style But

22:13

then like you you you're playing drums at the end. I'm

22:15

like, oh she's holding in a lot Yeah,

22:19

where's where's all that I

22:21

know and I'm like well the special also

22:23

it hurts because I watch myself

22:25

I'm like, that's not even me like I

22:27

I really do I've learned how to have

22:30

fun on stage recently very recently after the

22:32

special. Yeah Very

22:35

very recently and it's not there it's not in

22:37

the special because I was nervous. Of course. I

22:39

was it was my first special Yeah,

22:41

I was nervous. I had two shows and like so I

22:43

watched it and I'm like, that's not even what I do

22:45

on stage anymore So it shifted

22:47

in since when when'd you record that special?

22:50

I mean, no my energy shifted I would say

22:52

like a few years ago. So it was it

22:55

should have been captured in the special, but I was

22:57

nervous I was nervous. I'm not saying like I'm like

22:59

now like an act out crazy comedian It's just that

23:02

I care so much less about stand-up than

23:04

I used to and so and so

23:06

it's a zero fucks thing Yeah, there's

23:08

still some facts. I'm trying to get to zero

23:10

but I was like the fuck level has dropped

23:13

Okay, like you know all you're great and the jokes

23:15

are great and I and I remember working with you

23:17

But and I know you were nervous, but it's interesting

23:19

because I was I actually talked to my producer I'm

23:22

like, I don't know if this is totally a choice

23:25

You know the way that she's you

23:27

know doing her her performance and

23:29

it kind of wasn't you're right. You're right

23:31

It's not but it's a good special I don't

23:34

want to diminish a special but I remember working with

23:36

you and I could I could just cuz I'm a

23:38

comic I'm sensitive to the nervousness part, but you were

23:40

also like you're not like you would never like hey

23:44

But you are in drums you're definitely a hey,

23:46

how's everybody doing drummer? I I hope

23:49

and then you kind of rock hard. Yeah, like

23:52

I I fall metal all the

23:54

time Well, I

23:56

have you know, you Know, I'm

23:58

actually obsessed with drums. Yeah, I

24:00

am. I'm in a comedy bad now and I

24:02

never thought I would delve into musical comedy. I

24:05

around, I know, By it with other comedians?

24:07

Yes, very funny comedians. Thunderbird. So

24:09

so these are. Not unlike many

24:11

comedians the musician dreamers as he at

24:13

who are like as I play obviously

24:15

but I was never going to pursue

24:17

that. we and music via Georgia in

24:20

my day I never did any took

24:22

me years to play in public eye

24:24

with i had banned or so yesterday

24:26

but we're not like always practicing but

24:28

we do Argos eggs were will do

24:30

like six or seven covers yeah and

24:32

just as a band they took me.

24:34

Fifty. Some odd years to find the courage to do

24:37

that and I'm not a bad player. So.

24:39

Is it diseases? To. Have no interest in. Or

24:41

is it knows it's like I am. I used

24:43

to do a joke about how. I. Got

24:45

play guitar but I was. I never set

24:47

out to play professionally So my my guitars

24:50

not like a vessel have broken dreams like

24:52

I wanted it. to keep it united. Want

24:54

the pressure Because I know myself. It's like

24:56

once, even with the band your so many

24:59

other things to worry about. your fucked up

25:01

the song you don't want us, the were

25:03

whatever. Yeah and. I don't know. I

25:05

guess I used to be nervous like that when I

25:08

was doing standup originally, but I don't want to ruin

25:10

guitars. That's as might keep something you enjoy

25:12

a as a non process. Yeah activity I mean

25:14

it's like one of my few things ryan in

25:16

i've gone through periods or mike I'm sure you

25:18

have with the drums the i don't want to

25:20

a better on learn some new things. And

25:23

I do is. you know, I'm kind of

25:25

happy that I did it. But anytime I

25:27

see anybody else play guitar like twelve year

25:29

olds on fucking Instagram and my son, I

25:31

found I'm not in the game. An hour

25:34

an. Hour at the same with. I picked

25:36

up Stapleton recently and I saw the oh

25:38

gosh. It's

25:40

some I identify. As

25:42

seated play there are my hobbies

25:44

as. A but by means, but that's

25:47

just becomes a thing about like you're if

25:49

you're nervous on skateboarding and a fuckin or

25:51

yourself. Our that's why I reached the law where I'm

25:53

like a some really tiger did this. I have to

25:55

risk injury and I don't think. I. Were you were?

25:57

you? at the edge of a pool? I

26:01

actually can drop in not on

26:04

extreme heights, but I can drop in really

26:06

It's actually not the scariest part of feetboarding.

26:08

You wear a helmet No

26:10

pads knee pads. I started wearing pads after

26:12

I took a really brutal fall on my knee and and

26:15

boy What's gonna take to wear a helmet? I

26:17

fell in my head once already actually. Yeah, how was

26:19

that for you? You're

26:22

not wearing a helmet cuz you don't think it's cool

26:24

cuz you're what are you standing there

26:26

beside the pool with 19 age boys Oh

26:30

my god during the pandemic. I was showing

26:32

up my high school my my high school

26:34

and I was in the tennis courts trying

26:36

to Ollie With literally a certain like

26:39

a 13 year old boy. I'm like, oh, I look like

26:41

a pedophile people must be like this There's no way this

26:43

woman is trying to actually learn how to skate. Yeah,

26:45

I bought a board once Like

26:47

down it when I lived in the Lower East Side

26:50

There was you know this board shop when they were

26:52

doing those big boards and yeah, we were kind of

26:54

around and I just decided That's maybe

26:56

what my persona should be So I

26:58

got one by board and I went out to

27:00

the where they were skating around the I

27:03

guess it was used to be a basketball court or

27:05

something there was a flat and there are

27:07

all these other guys kind of doing the things and I

27:09

just sat there on My board and they're looking at me.

27:11

I'm like, yeah, I can't do it. Yeah, I got a

27:13

good board If you just stopped I

27:15

didn't really even start I bought the board and that was the

27:17

end of the fantasy Well,

27:20

that's okay. You do have cool things. I

27:22

know some things don't stick. What are you

27:24

gonna do? It's well, it's just the

27:26

hardest thing to really really get good at so everyone's

27:28

a comic. How are you guys? How are you doing?

27:30

How are you playing in terms of the band? Oh,

27:33

we haven't had any this is very

27:35

recent You're just kind of fucking around. No,

27:37

like well, so it's Kyle Dunnigan is like it's his

27:39

band. I should say that I know he's in New

27:42

York again. Yeah, he moved you did. Yeah during

27:44

the fan. Idemic No,

27:46

actually, I don't know maybe like a year.

27:48

I think it's pretty recent Wow. No

27:50

kidding. I miss seeing him around He's funny

27:52

guy best. What does he play? Everything

27:56

he plays keyboard. He plays guitar. He sings.

27:58

He's so good at writing music Yeah,

28:00

it's talented fella. So talented. Yeah, so

28:02

Tim and who else? Me

28:05

David Angelo another very funny. Yeah Caroline

28:08

bandwidth. Yeah, and Tony which is not

28:10

a comedian. Just like Kyle's friends. He's

28:13

a really good just Tony Tony's

28:15

on the guitar Tony on the strings. Yeah,

28:17

that's good. I mean, I don't play with

28:20

comics anymore I didn't do it that much

28:22

I play with like real musicians and

28:25

it's kind of interesting because like I'm freaking out and

28:27

to them It's just sort of like no

28:29

problem. Right? I did and it's inspiring like they

28:31

don't care They've been doing it their whole life.

28:33

So it's second nature for them. It's not whether

28:36

they're they're all good But like

28:38

when I'm out of practice, I'm like, oh my

28:40

god pressures on here We go and these guys

28:42

are just loose do you feel the pressure because

28:44

you want them to? like

28:46

I don't think I'm I like even

28:48

though I've gone out and done it and Saying

28:51

and and stuff and and I can and

28:53

I know I'm okay. I still

28:55

get very I'm insecure about that's all I mean

28:57

in front of audience and sometimes in front of

28:59

these guys because I got this guitar player now

29:01

that never stops playing And he's just like

29:04

he's all over the frets and I'm like, all right Did

29:07

you teach yourself? Not really I took

29:09

some lessons and I guess

29:11

I was in high school Okay Like I learned the

29:13

basics that have got me this far

29:15

and then Jimmy Vivino the guy from the old

29:17

Conan show the band leader His old

29:19

his old band leader became sort of a friend and

29:21

he would show me licks every time

29:23

I do Conan and then eventually I kept

29:25

getting better and I eventually played with him. He was

29:28

in my band briefly. That's amazing. That was big deal

29:30

That's so but I still don't believe good enough, right?

29:33

I don't know. Maybe that's with everything No, you're

29:35

I had the same moment where I like so

29:38

I played the drums with Yola Tango

29:40

And it was just like the coolest

29:42

thing that's ever happened. Why that's a that's

29:44

a good pace You know, you know,

29:46

you don't you don't have to show off too much

29:48

with the yellow tango As

29:51

you get you know, they're not gonna

29:53

be you know, there's no metal requirements.

29:55

Yeah. Yeah, you know, it was you know

29:59

It was the perfect Starting place for someone

30:01

who learn arcade game. Ah good

30:03

bridge, Noom for to play with

30:05

them. Those things like

30:08

wow, can I possibly the thinnest actually

30:10

be a general ban Mammoth Lakes away

30:12

I will. Admit every good gear who used to

30:14

be dumber. Todd Barry. Oh

30:17

I know a another had had played with them

30:19

to same same says. Oh really easy to

30:21

has he does. I wasn't. There are

30:23

some videos that I think he's animals. I'm better

30:25

than Time as a sign that. In. Fact

30:28

that are a I'm I'm fine retarded some for my

30:30

life. you know a guy is. The weird thing is

30:33

is like you've got to sort of stay with his.

30:35

Mail any of it, Turns. It can

30:37

stay in the groove of it's own. Withstand a

30:40

play dumb, the crazy like that from New York,

30:42

the training like I have to go onstage at

30:44

least twice a week if I go like two

30:46

weeks at Santa for my to automatic do in.

30:48

Same. I forgot how to do. You still see.

30:51

I do it sixties fucking

30:54

stupid. Whistle On this is

30:56

taken off in like recent years. The

30:58

pandemic are a entire pandemic in.

31:00

You know what's so great? He

31:04

loved it, loved it. I was like maybe

31:06

I'm all better the I. Say

31:10

like I thought like yeah I could live without

31:12

a but as soon as people started doing it

31:14

I'm like fuck here we go again. That's

31:17

interesting that you thought for a moment to be done. I

31:19

did what? I think that about everything but

31:21

I think it's his someplace my brain goes

31:24

said on things I'd like. I think there's

31:26

a part of my brain. that's right, I'm

31:28

I'm just going to stop and go by.

31:30

The Silicon Valley evolves, traveling and disappearing and

31:32

early. Yeah. I just sort of my

31:34

done gonna stop and sit in this house rights and

31:36

in a stop and go to New Mexico. I'm not

31:38

going to have a phone. Like. That, and

31:41

as soon as it's. It's.

31:43

A It's. A little bit much.

31:46

But. Makes me feel relaxed. Yeah, I

31:48

mean the pandemic was also part of

31:50

I think it was the and the

31:52

inciting incident city given less success and

31:54

upset. Really helpful. I did you do any

31:56

that ridiculous stuff I did whom shows and. cited

31:59

i did like A couple of them shows. I

32:01

couldn't do any of it. The outdoor shows, none of

32:03

it. Really? I didn't do any of it. Just

32:05

because you're like, this is bullshit? Well,

32:08

they were doing these gigs where like, you

32:11

know, in drive-in theaters or weird fucking places. I'm

32:13

like, I had to do those when I was

32:15

coming up and they were awful. Just

32:17

because the situation calls for it doesn't mean it's not

32:19

gonna suck. So I'd rather live without it.

32:23

It did sort of feel like that in a way. It

32:25

felt like starting again with these really shitty shows. But I

32:28

had fun actually. Maybe there was like one Instagram live show.

32:30

I was like, I'll never do that again. Cause you really

32:32

can't hear anyone laughing in the desert. But

32:35

I was doing like shows, outdoor shows in

32:37

Connecticut with Sam, Morrell and like, they were

32:39

like literally a truck going by every other

32:41

joke. It was kind of like funny. I guess so.

32:44

I guess so. I just didn't, I don't

32:46

know. I was already in

32:48

the pandemic. I had enough problems the way it was. I

32:50

didn't need to go on stage and feel shitty

32:52

about comedy. Cause I know I

32:54

would, even if it was a

32:56

compromise situation, I'd still judge myself.

32:59

As if it were normal. Right. So

33:02

what changed that? What changed

33:04

in your performance that made you, why

33:07

are you a new person now? Not

33:10

a lot. I mean, people made me not

33:12

even notice a difference. Some people have noticed,

33:14

but like I used

33:17

to just really be like, I have to, I treated standup

33:19

like school and I was always a great student. I was

33:21

like, I have to be really good at this. I have

33:24

to do it properly. I have to write great jokes. And

33:26

then I was like, oh, I'm a clown.

33:28

It just kind of hit me like, oh, this

33:30

is stupid. What I do is stupid. Like I

33:32

should treat it as such. And

33:35

so it allowed me to just take

33:37

it less seriously. And that let me, losing

33:40

respect for standup I think helped me be

33:42

better at it. That's interesting. I

33:44

mean, cause I don't know. I guess you're like,

33:47

you come from a

33:49

pretty strict joke writing tradition.

33:51

Yeah. Oh

33:54

God, it sounds so pretentious.

33:56

Yeah. No, I mean, we

33:58

make choices. I mean, like how long? long you've been doing it? Since

34:02

I started 2010-2011. Oh, well that's not bad. It's

34:06

a long time. Well let's go let's go back because I

34:08

mean you're talking this special about like because I don't get

34:10

to talk to a ton of Muslims

34:16

and I guess we've been a little Jew heavy lately

34:18

so we gotta head out. I'm

34:21

happy to help. And it's not even it's not even

34:23

because comedy is Jewish anymore it used to be but

34:25

it's really not. It's

34:27

gotten pretty inclusive and everyone sort of

34:29

finds their way but I think in

34:32

the 70s it was just like oh

34:34

another Jew. Right. But not anymore. Right

34:36

now it's everyone out 16 year olds mostly.

34:38

I can't even deal with that. It's

34:42

not even on my radar. I am missing everything

34:45

but I'm not sure I'm missing anything. You don't

34:47

get TikTok or Instagram? Not for comedy like I

34:49

see the crowd war trend you know but I

34:51

don't know who the influencers are or and I

34:54

don't know who the TikTok comedians are by name.

34:56

I don't know what they're doing out there. I

34:58

know they can sell tickets. I've never really

35:00

watched you know Matt Rife do anything. I've

35:03

watched maybe three minutes of Andrew Schultz and I

35:05

know they now have their own

35:07

armies apparently. That's another way to say

35:10

it. I'm more concerned about

35:13

the army

35:15

army. I'm a

35:17

little concerned about the tribalization of the medium.

35:19

Yeah. You know. Yeah. Is this all these

35:22

people running around saying like I don't want

35:24

to get canceled and it's like we don't

35:26

even know who you are. So clearly that's

35:28

your hook. Maybe write some jokes. Tell

35:32

it preach. Drag them

35:34

Mark. I

35:36

dragged them. It's not even subtle and

35:38

when I do like it the great thing

35:41

about my audience and who I go out

35:43

to is that I'm insulated enough that not

35:45

one of those fuckers will hear it unless

35:47

I put it on in TikTok and then

35:49

I get into some problems. Had

35:51

some problems on TikTok. Minor

35:54

problems. I don't

35:56

like getting involved with it but I have an

35:58

inability to compartmentalize. I

36:00

mean, I've I've leaned into it's comedy

36:03

drama just once in recently and I

36:05

usually never do. I never talked family

36:07

tuck. Not so it's not the tweet

36:09

ago he fucked up. I'll it's

36:11

related to that. Oh so I mean obviously I

36:13

don't care about my race disclose and I cannot

36:15

have I just i doesn't bother me as because

36:18

like I said, I've lost respect for this art

36:20

form said okay, succeeds at it was. Here because

36:22

he's not really doing an array. While the

36:24

as sad as well said as well for sure

36:26

is. Be doing something delicious. Thing about

36:28

crowd work is like slight for me.

36:30

Crowd were was a skill you should

36:32

have. Yeah, not something you should do.

36:35

with like breaking case of emergency and. That's right,

36:37

Yeah, know what you want to be able

36:39

to handle yourself here in any situation of

36:41

their you're not viewed in the and there's

36:43

been plenty of good crowd work comedians but

36:45

it's not you know. Christ.

36:48

Sir I mean honestly I am seems

36:50

to me to in a little bit

36:53

about graduate in a shocking way where

36:55

I mean. I I. I

36:57

i myself don't enjoy it. I don't go

37:00

out watch it but I think stand up

37:02

in our culture. live performance. Us. Has

37:04

didn't people a sense of community that

37:06

is largely missing in their lives? Yes,

37:08

Cellists comedy is a more they can

37:10

go and like talk to another human

37:12

being and hear other people's thoughts than

37:14

maybe that's a good thing. Night

37:16

I will do it as like as I

37:19

I you want to have a relationship with

37:21

your i use words conversational by but the

37:23

idea of going from person to person and

37:25

being like so what's up Fisher the I

37:27

it's you know. It's. Just. It's

37:30

quick, it's just cheating. Yeah. And

37:32

away be here to me like you can just do

37:34

it will the bar some. It's large for the audience

37:37

to impressed by his says like I mean to say

37:39

almost nothing in the last with. Cobbler a young age

37:41

and we love and sometimes it's like a good

37:43

bit of crowd work is even. Yeah, that's the

37:45

other reason you gotta be careful the of an

37:47

act because if you do a crowd work and

37:49

he kills hard to discern. The. Bay

37:51

knows you're just doing a script.

37:54

I made that mistake. I went into crowder. it has

37:56

like I did the specials. What am I do? Love

37:58

Sassy! At unsubtle had a crowd were. But

38:00

then there was like a big moment of laughs from

38:02

crowd work and then it went back into material and

38:04

they're like, fuck you, we don't give shit about your

38:06

Muslim trauma. Go back to talking to

38:08

us. That

38:10

probably wasn't the exact tone, but

38:14

there's no reason not to project that on you. The one who

38:16

literally said that. No, they

38:18

did not. No, they didn't. Okay, well, let's go

38:20

back and then we'll kind of move through the

38:22

controversy. So like, I don't, I'm

38:24

trying to think who I talked to specifically

38:26

about a Muslim childhood. I'm

38:28

finding it all very, like

38:31

there's like, there's things as an old white guy that

38:33

I learned particularly from, you

38:35

know, TV shows of like

38:38

reservation dogs and Rami show.

38:41

The engagement with a culture, you know, from a second

38:44

generation point of view or just from the point

38:46

of view of the culture, like there's no way

38:48

for me to know things, you

38:51

know, by reading about it or seeing a

38:53

documentary or whatever. It's like also past lives

38:55

was another one. Did you watch past lives?

38:57

The movie? It's still all

38:59

an education to me. And even though Muslim

39:02

is not that

39:05

different than Jew in a way. Very

39:08

similar. Yeah. I mean,

39:10

your name, your last name could be Jewish. It is sort of. It means

39:12

God, it means the name of God. Yeah. Yeah.

39:15

So what was it in

39:18

your childhood that ruined

39:20

it? So

39:25

just to be clear, the question is how did Islam ruin my life?

39:27

Okay. So

39:30

clearly you didn't watch special. I did watch

39:32

it. But

39:34

I want to get beyond the jokes. This is

39:37

called this is called the behind

39:44

the jokes with the chef. Okay.

39:46

Yeah. You grew up in Jersey. I

39:48

did. No,

39:51

actually. Well, yes. So DDR, you know,

39:53

are you familiar? Also

39:55

known as Stan Stan's Revolution. Sure. I

39:58

did grow up addicted to that because it was not It

40:00

was so you can dance too. Yeah, I

40:02

can do the DDR dance. That's how I dance

40:04

in real life for sure Yeah,

40:06

like you just hopped off the machine It

40:10

is the only way I know how to dance I can't dance But

40:12

it was in this roller rink roller blading was like a

40:15

huge part of my life every weekend I'd go to the

40:17

roller rink and they had this DDR machine music Maribel

40:21

mirror a mirror ball. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

40:23

Oh, it's not a disco ball. I was called

40:25

a disco. Okay, you're sinking So

40:30

That's where yeah, I grew up in Jersey. Yeah,

40:32

which part Jersey it's

40:34

called Islam Not not

40:37

where Rami grew up. Not was there big

40:39

Muslim? Right,

40:41

yes, definitely. Well the town I grew up in

40:44

island it's also known as little India It's like

40:46

the largest population of Indian immigrants, I think in

40:48

the country So

40:50

and obviously if there's a Muslim population within

40:52

that I forget where Rami grew

40:54

up. But yeah, I mean good food, right? Indian

40:56

food great food. Oh, it's the

40:58

best great food. See that's where like again That's

41:01

where my knowledge of India drops

41:03

off if I don't talk to an Indian comedian Which I

41:05

have a couple and learn more things, but it was

41:07

really about food for most of my life Yeah,

41:09

just sort of like man. You got that great

41:11

bread. That's most people's Wrong.

41:15

I think you should know more so not teach me

41:20

Okay, so beyond the falafel and the

41:22

hummus There's

41:24

a lot of trauma So

41:27

I mean real trauma. Yeah. Yeah,

41:30

I get

41:32

mad now when people trivialize this

41:35

new approach to Psychotherapy

41:38

trauma-based approach because I think it's very

41:40

smart and I've heard a comic recently

41:42

kind of poo-poo it and I'm like go fuck yourself Wait,

41:44

I don't even know what it is well,

41:47

just the idea of You

41:49

know attaching You know a

41:51

certain amount of meaning it's just really thinking about

41:53

PTSD I think in a broad way that you

41:56

know, we're we're going to be wired a certain

41:58

way and it's going to affect us far

42:00

beyond our childhood because

42:03

of a repetition of patterns or

42:06

something that really fucked with us. And

42:09

I think to focus on that, like with

42:11

EMDR or trauma processing is like,

42:13

it's smart. For people with

42:15

actual trauma, of course. Which is most

42:17

people, I mean some worse than others. I'm doing

42:19

a bit about that right now. How you

42:22

sort of decide for yourself which traumas really

42:25

defined you or fucked you up. And it might

42:27

be surprising. I can't go in

42:29

the hope that I don't want to ruin it. All right, so

42:31

tell me the trauma. God,

42:33

where do I start? I don't know. But were

42:35

you religious? And was there a lot of people in the family? Two

42:38

questions. No, very small family, very like

42:40

isolatingly small. Well, my mom and dad divorced when

42:42

I was like six. He moved

42:44

back, he moved to Kuwait. So he lived there

42:47

my whole life. Well,

42:49

was it a planned marriage? Planned

42:51

marriage? Like a- They were married for

42:53

a while because they had my brother already. He's five years

42:55

old. But like did they want to marry each other?

42:58

Where'd they get married? You know, you're gonna find out

43:00

how little I know about my family because I hated

43:02

them for so long. All of them? Yeah.

43:06

Yeah. Well,

43:10

I believe they must have been married in Egypt. My

43:13

dad was Egyptian. Because I

43:15

know there's a thing where like if they come to

43:17

America and they're married and there's an expectation about honoring

43:21

the religion or even an arranged

43:23

marriage, sometimes that craps out. Yeah,

43:26

I'm sure it wasn't arranged. Yeah.

43:29

They were not married in America for sure. Yeah. So he

43:31

splits. He splits. How old

43:34

were you? Six. Oh, see that's a lot right there.

43:36

Really? Is that a common thing? Well, I mean it's

43:38

sort of abandonment. I'd love a diagnosis at the

43:40

end of this. Yeah, okay, I could. Fortunately

43:42

I have a doctor who's also listening in. Healthy.

43:46

Awesome. That's a great, wouldn't that be a great

43:48

podcast that doctor sits in at the end? They

43:50

say what you have. They gotta have one. But the

43:52

person doesn't know it, but you wouldn't be able to keep

43:54

that hidden. I could just pretend like I'm that good. He's

43:58

texting me as I... As

44:01

he's listening. I wouldn't even be mad, but that's

44:03

great. I've never gone to therapy. So it was...

44:05

You've never gone to therapy. I went to one session

44:07

my entire life. And were you traumatized by

44:09

that? Yeah. I cried the whole

44:11

time. That's what it is. But I

44:13

was like, if that's what it is, then I

44:15

don't... We were supposed

44:18

to stop crying at some point. Okay, I didn't stop the

44:20

whole time. I wanted to. No, it takes

44:22

a few weeks, maybe months. Oh, really? Could be a year.

44:24

But yeah, the idea is to stop crying and

44:26

have self-acceptance and boundaries and stuff.

44:29

Well, I believe I'm sort of my own therapist. Good for you.

44:31

Thank you. Good for you. Yeah, it's

44:33

all upstairs. All right, so what happened? So you got

44:35

a brother? Yeah. And

44:37

just a two of you? Yes. And

44:40

my mother and my stepdad, who

44:42

she married. So she

44:44

married my stepdad. It was a green

44:47

card marriage, essentially, so that he could

44:50

have a green card and so that she could keep custody

44:52

of my brother and I, because I believe my dad wanted

44:54

to take us to the Middle East with him. And

44:56

my mom, she had like no money. I

44:58

mean, he made the money. And

45:00

from what I understand, I don't know that I remember

45:02

the details, but like he fucked her over in some

45:04

way where they had a house. But then because you're

45:07

a real dad. Yeah. Because she wanted

45:09

a divorce. He was like, he like whatever got the house.

45:11

Yeah. I don't know the word, real estate word for it.

45:13

But they lost money on it. And so she had

45:15

nothing and she didn't even have money for like a lawyer.

45:18

So like she's like the court is not going to

45:20

give her the kids if she just can't prove she

45:22

has like an apartment or like a way of supporting

45:25

us. So she married my stepdad as way of keeping

45:27

us. And I'm very thankful

45:29

for that. So I

45:31

grew up with her and my stepdad. Is

45:33

he a Muslim guy? Yeah, another Egyptian man.

45:35

Oh, okay. Yeah. Who, I

45:37

mean, people don't believe me when I say this, but it's,

45:40

I only realized it recently. We

45:42

had a fight when I was like shortly after we

45:44

started living together when I was like six or seven.

45:46

Yeah. We had a fight and we

45:48

never spoke again. I

45:52

mean, I literally spent like 15 years

45:54

of my life living with a man I never spoke to. That's

45:58

problematic. Is that weird? It's

46:01

not normal, right? In the house. Yeah, it's

46:03

not normal. So you had to maintain this

46:05

vigilance? Like you had to catch yourself

46:07

sometimes? No, it was not even like

46:09

a... there was... neither of us tried

46:12

to talk to each other. Wow. Because

46:15

we had... so the fight was... At dinner? We

46:17

didn't sit down and eat dinner together. What was the fight? So

46:20

I didn't have my own room in this first apartment

46:22

we had. My brother got the room to himself and

46:24

my parents had their room. So I got like a

46:26

sectioned off part of the living room that

46:29

was separated with like these dividers. So

46:32

one day I came home from school and I found my

46:34

stepdad snooping around my area. And I was very protective of

46:36

it because that's all I have. And I

46:38

just yelled at him. I was like, what are you doing? Get out of my

46:40

area. And he was like, you can't

46:42

talk to me like that. And he stormed off and we

46:44

never spoke again. To this day?

46:47

I mean, he would come home. I would say hi,

46:49

Mo. He would say hi, Dina. And that was our

46:51

lives. Wow. To

46:54

this day? He was divorced recently.

46:56

Recently. Huh. Okay.

47:00

So at least

47:02

you have commitment. You're

47:05

able to stick to it. Who is at

47:07

fault there? Should I have been the bigger person?

47:09

Like let's hash this out. I'm six. But

47:11

let's talk. No. Clearly,

47:14

I don't know. That guy had a problem. He

47:17

must have had his own problems. Yeah. I

47:20

don't know what it was. Maybe he was uncomfortable with you.

47:22

Who the fuck knows? But yeah,

47:24

it was sort of on him when you're

47:26

six. I would say, right? To sort of

47:28

navigate that. That's what I thought. As a

47:30

parent kind of. Yeah. Thanks

47:33

for taking my size. And your mom said nothing? Well,

47:35

so, okay. So this therein

47:38

lies the trauma where my mom was like, not

47:41

this, she was not in her right mind my entire

47:44

adolescence. As an

47:46

adult, I learned to, in

47:48

order to forgive her, I was like, oh, she

47:50

was dealing with all the fallout of my dad's

47:52

shit. And she was probably losing her mind

47:54

my entire coming advantage. And it's a marriage

47:56

of convenience too that she was trying to

47:58

save her own life, right? Right, and

48:00

so like once he got the green card,

48:02

she thought they were gonna split, but he

48:04

was kind of like, actually I like this,

48:06

let's stay together. But I mean, my entire

48:08

childhood was them screaming at each other all

48:10

night long, which is part of the trauma

48:12

of like, almost every night they would be

48:14

screaming, it was insane. Like, as

48:17

an adult, I'm like, I would never scream at

48:19

my partner in front of my kids. It's like,

48:21

it doesn't add up, because that's why

48:23

I tell myself like, oh, that's

48:25

a sign of how much pain she was going

48:27

through, because she's very loving. Like, she loves her

48:29

kids, but like the fact that she would do

48:31

that in front of us was like, she must've

48:33

been so out of her mind. Yeah, and

48:36

now you scream on the drums. Exactly,

48:38

and now it comes out, and

48:41

I'll fucking talk. Because I can't, I'd like to

48:43

see some screaming in the comedy, if you. Well,

48:45

so, I mean, I

48:48

would like to get there, and I have raised

48:51

my voice on stage a little, that's part of

48:53

the transformation. That's good, I like it, I like it. I'll

48:55

get to the screaming, perhaps. Maybe you could do it

48:57

in a character. Yeah, maybe.

49:00

Of your stepfather. Well,

49:04

I need to get my notebook, yeah. Okay,

49:08

so that goes on for your entire fucking childhood?

49:10

Yeah. Now, what's the

49:12

Muslim component? That's

49:14

the thing, it's like, sometimes I have trouble separating what

49:17

was the Muslim trauma, and what was just regular, like,

49:20

shitty household trauma. Well, I think

49:22

we just discussed the domestic trauma. Yeah. And

49:25

so this guy was religious, both of them were

49:27

religious, or? My mom definitely was, I mean, he

49:29

was on paper, but I never saw him, like, pray. Never?

49:32

No. So he's a shitty Muslim

49:34

and a monster. Oh, God,

49:37

it feels wrong to say that. I mean, I really

49:39

think, I have to attribute Muslim trauma.

49:41

I don't want to put words in your mouth. You

49:44

can negotiate. He was

49:47

probably suffering his own Muslim trauma from growing up

49:49

in a patriarchal, very diplomatic, very good

49:51

for you. Thank you, thank you.

49:54

I mean, he was there, that's the thing. But

49:57

your mom did the praying and the? Yeah, and I had

49:59

to. well. She taught

50:01

me how to pray. We were praying five times a day.

50:04

Mosque? Well, no. Funny enough,

50:06

my aunt was so busy working and

50:08

trying to keep us alive that she

50:10

didn't even have time to force us

50:12

to go to mosque or

50:14

even learn the language. It's something I actually am

50:17

still mad at her for, where she didn't teach

50:19

us Arabic because she was afraid that we would

50:21

develop an accent. It's like you couldn't just ask

50:23

somebody, like ask a language expert, like are they

50:25

going to have an accent? Would

50:27

you pray in Arabic? Oh yeah, so the only

50:30

Arabic I know is prayers. Oh yeah. The Jews

50:32

do that too. Oh right, but do you

50:34

even know what you're saying? No, I don't know what I'm

50:36

saying. Yeah, isn't that weird? Yeah, but I'm not like a religious

50:38

person. But you kind of go, you do what you got to

50:40

do. Right. You know, you do

50:42

the bar mitzvah and then you're out. Right. And

50:45

I can kind of make out some words if I

50:47

look at Hebrew. You don't have it memorized

50:49

or anything? No, I mean, yeah, the

50:51

Hanukkah prayers. I'm not a good

50:53

Jew when it comes to being religious, but I

50:55

did do it. I learned how

50:57

to read it and speak it. But I

50:59

don't know, no one ever taught us the

51:01

language. Isn't that funny? They didn't think

51:03

it was important. It was more about just doing

51:05

it than having you understand any part of it.

51:08

Yeah, I guess I don't know. That's like

51:10

another level. I mean, you know, Catholic mass

51:12

used to be in Latin and

51:14

I don't know that there were a lot of

51:16

people figuring that out. I think

51:18

they want to keep it creepy. Right, right,

51:20

right. But don't you get too close to

51:22

God? Yeah, keep it mysterious. Make them work for

51:25

it, if they're interested. So that

51:27

was it, praying at home. Yeah,

51:30

pray at home. But you

51:32

said you did well in school, so you were able to kind of

51:35

lock in. Yeah,

51:37

yeah, I was really good at school. I mean,

51:41

my mom, for all her faults, she made sure

51:43

that we were also good students and the importance

51:45

of one day going to college or whatever. That's

51:48

good. It's also another form of trauma because my

51:50

whole life I was like, I have to be good at school

51:52

so I can go to college and get as far away from

51:54

my family as possible. That was the goal. But

51:56

then once college time came around, I started talking about

51:58

applying to out of state school. She's like you're not

52:00

leaving the state. Are you kidding? Dashed

52:03

your dreams dashed dashed. I'm

52:05

trying in the bathroom I was so torn apart

52:07

and we didn't have money so it's not like I

52:10

could be like well I'm going anyway. I did I

52:12

was so demoralized that even think to apply to any

52:14

out-of-state schools Like maybe I'll get a scholarship you can

52:16

escape it just I just didn't even think of doing

52:18

that So

52:20

I applied to Rutgers and they ended up giving me a full

52:22

scholarship So I was like well now I actually have to fucking

52:24

go to this school because now I don't have to pay for

52:27

it Not a bad school not

52:29

a bad school I actually was well very

52:31

fateful because that's the only reason I started

52:33

doing stand-up But in New Brunswick how

52:35

far is that from where you lived 20-minute drive? I

52:38

commuted my first two years and then what happened in

52:40

the second two years though I saved up enough

52:42

money after working to get an apartment and off-campus

52:44

apartment in New Brunswick. Yeah,

52:47

wow Yeah,

52:49

were you were you a Tom Sharpling

52:51

fan? Yeah, actually I met him

52:53

a couple times in the Starbucks of this one

52:56

You I don't know why he was there because

52:58

he lived around there really yeah, that's where

53:01

the Sharplings Jersey, man Yeah,

53:03

that's why I met him and I had already started

53:05

to stand up. Oh, wow. He was so nice Yeah,

53:07

he's a great guy. Yeah, very funny. Great.

53:09

Yeah. Well, that's good. So fortuitous,

53:13

so how does it how do you start doing stand-up

53:15

the New Jersey

53:17

Comedy Festival came it was just a festival that

53:19

would go to different colleges Anybody could enter to

53:22

try out and there'd be a final thing and

53:24

they would crown somebody's whatever Was

53:27

it at Vinnie's Club? Well, if

53:29

any stress factory was part of the prize where

53:31

if you won you would get to do I

53:36

don't know if I've ever heard that said before Vinnie

53:41

Brand was part of the prize. Oh my god.

53:43

Yeah, it's the first time that's ever been uttered

53:46

Fortunately, that wasn't on video. You nearly did a spit

53:48

take big

53:51

prize go to that place where

53:53

they have a pay phone on the stage and He

53:57

and he will use it for 40 minutes before you go. Of

53:59

course and he'll to run those videos of car crashes

54:01

to warm the audience up. So

54:04

what year are you in college when you

54:06

do that? Junior year, thankfully,

54:08

because I won

54:10

the contest and I just obviously just became obsessed with stand

54:12

up. And so if I'd been earlier than that, maybe I

54:14

would have dropped out, but I only had a year to

54:16

go. So I was like, I'll finish school. And there was

54:18

like a little stand up scene around college. So I could

54:20

still just do it there. Holy shit. So

54:22

what were you studying? English,

54:25

philosophy and Japanese. Oh,

54:27

so full liberal arts trip. And

54:30

you did well. Yeah. How's

54:32

your Japanese? It was really

54:34

good. And then I never practiced it. And a

54:36

lot of it fled my brain, but I went

54:38

to Japan recently and so it sort of started

54:40

coming back. And so I want to get

54:42

back into how as good as I was

54:44

back then. Why Japanese? I

54:47

just loved, I mean, I grew up

54:49

loving Japanese video games and anime.

54:52

And so I was just a nerd. And... So

54:55

that was, so that's the other component of you

54:58

is that in the midst of all this trauma, you're

55:00

playing video games and looking at anime and doing

55:03

nerd culture stuff. I was just creating

55:05

my own little world in my room where... Yeah,

55:07

you got a room eventually. Eventually, yes, in high school,

55:09

got a room. Which... Big step.

55:12

Sort of the door. I mean, it was like... Well,

55:14

you talked about this on the special. Yeah. The

55:16

no door business. I didn't fucking close. Like I finally

55:18

got a room, but the door wouldn't close all the

55:20

way. So I still didn't have my privacy and my

55:22

mom never knocked, obviously. My

55:25

parents put us in the basement. In

55:29

the first house, yeah. When I was like 10, there

55:32

was like a, they just put a shag carpet in

55:34

the basement and had a bathroom down there. Was it

55:36

furnished, Ellie? No, yeah, yeah. It

55:38

wasn't weird. They didn't chain the door. They

55:41

just made a room. We just put

55:43

us down there. And there was two rooms upstairs

55:46

that we could have had. Why not? But they

55:48

just did this, because the basement had been, kind

55:51

of carved out as a rec room for the people

55:53

that lived there before. But yeah, we were in the

55:55

basement. It actually felt nice. It was big. We

55:57

had a lot of room down there. Yeah, like the clubhouse.

56:00

Sure, kind of, yeah. And there

56:02

was a separate room that was, I

56:04

don't know. I just remember at some

56:06

point during my childhood, a cousin visited,

56:08

was on the road, and just post-hippiness,

56:10

and it was some cousin

56:12

of my mother's, and they went down there,

56:14

and they found this massive amount of drugs

56:17

in the roof, like above

56:20

one of the asbestos panels in the other

56:22

room in the basement, from the people that

56:24

lived there before. It was crazy. What kind

56:26

of drugs? Just weed and pills and booze.

56:30

They were not good kids. That's so funny. The kids

56:32

that lived there before. They were not the great kids.

56:35

But we had no idea. We were totally young. So

56:38

you didn't have a door that worked, but

56:40

you go to college, and what, so

56:42

who were the comics that you're seeing? Are

56:44

any of them around in college? No,

56:47

I mean, I guess Julian went

56:50

to my cruise ride, or am I thinking

56:52

of? Oh, did he? Julian, did he? I

56:54

think so. I haven't seen that guy in a while. Was he in New

56:56

York? I don't know. Yeah, I'd

56:58

like to see that guy. That guy. He's

57:01

been through it. Yeah, definitely. I really

57:03

like that guy. Yeah, I

57:05

would hope I'm not mistaken. I'm pretty sure he went to

57:07

Rutgers. But, okay, so did

57:09

you win the contest? I won, and I got

57:12

addicted to it. Would you

57:14

just write jokes? Who were you looking at? How'd you know what to do?

57:16

I don't know. At the time, honestly, I wasn't

57:18

even at Into Stand Up. I would watch whatever's

57:21

playing on Comedy Central. Actually, I really loved Daniel

57:23

Tosh. I watched his special. That's

57:25

what I was trying to emulate when I was on stage, weirdly.

57:29

Jarring, shock-driven jokes.

57:33

I guess, I don't... It's a good place

57:35

to start. At least it puts

57:37

you in a position to really take some risks, whether you know

57:39

it or not, as to what the

57:41

audience can take. Right, I mean,

57:43

yeah. I

57:46

was channeling him. I had one friend, a philosophy colleague,

57:49

and he's the one who actually, he's

57:51

probably the reason I entered it, because I had a little crush on

57:53

him. At the time, I thought

57:55

he was so funny on stage, and then later I realized

57:58

he was just doing Mike Birbiglia. And

58:00

so yeah, I entered, we were writing with

58:02

each other, and I won. And

58:06

it was the first time I felt like

58:10

I could communicate with people. I was really a freak.

58:12

I couldn't communicate with people. I had so much anxiety

58:14

and trouble talking to people because of the way I

58:16

grew up in my house. I didn't

58:19

speak to anyone in my house. I had no practice talking to people.

58:22

I just didn't know how to do it. I was

58:24

constantly being fired from jobs because I just couldn't communicate.

58:27

I never spoke in meetings. The fact that

58:29

I perform doesn't make any sense. And

58:31

I say it in the special, and it's true. I

58:34

would panic thinking about raising my hand in

58:36

class. I'm not supposed to talk. But

58:38

it totally makes sense. It's you learning

58:40

how to talk. Yeah.

58:43

Like, you finding a voice

58:45

is exactly what you needed to do. Exactly.

58:48

And it changed my life. Standup really, really changed

58:50

my life. I don't know if I would have

58:52

learned those skills if I hadn't. I

58:57

don't know what I would be doing right now. It's total self-ownership.

58:59

Right. You know, and

59:01

I don't know. You might have innately known

59:03

that. Like you have complete control. Exactly.

59:06

Yeah. That's the difference between, I mean, like

59:08

when people are like, wait, you're afraid to talk in meetings, but you

59:10

can talk in front of an audience, it's totally different. Totally. You

59:13

have total control on stage. I'm not worried about what's going on in

59:15

other people's heads. Yeah, you can't be. I

59:17

just assume they're not laughing because of me. Exactly.

59:19

They could be thinking about the body they

59:22

buried earlier. I don't fucking know. Yeah.

59:30

There's a whole world out there in

59:32

the audience. Every

59:35

person is a world. There's no fucking doubt. So

59:37

true. And then just the assumption, like I always

59:39

know that about specials too, and I always notice

59:41

it about when I'm on stage. It's like, why

59:44

is the camera stopping on the people not laughing?

59:46

Yeah. Because, you know, you hear

59:48

laughs. It's like, where are those people? And

59:52

when I look at an audience, when I'm doing pretty well

59:54

at a theater or something, and I look at people in

59:56

the front room, like, what's going on? Yeah. Where

59:58

are these laughs coming from? Right, and

1:00:00

the people aren't... I do. Sometimes I'll

1:00:02

zone in on one person to the point where

1:00:04

they email me later and go like, I was

1:00:06

very uncomfortable. Really? It seemed like you were talking

1:00:08

to me specifically for like at least a half

1:00:11

hour of your show. No way. I

1:00:13

don't know that I'm doing it and I have to stop myself

1:00:15

and do it. Like when you do a theater, you got to

1:00:17

kind of look at everybody. Yeah. I just

1:00:19

naturally kind of like end up in

1:00:21

an area and I'm talking to... I'm

1:00:24

not consciously talking to that person. Yeah. I'll

1:00:26

catch myself, realize that I'm looking at one

1:00:28

person. Right. And then I'll look up and

1:00:30

I'll be out of here. I'll talk to

1:00:32

everybody. Right. I don't like looking out. Yeah.

1:00:35

I like looking out if I'm nervous and it's

1:00:37

like I'm not talking to nobody. There's literally nobody

1:00:40

here. That's good. So, okay. So

1:00:42

the philosophy guy, he said

1:00:44

he was a colleague. Was he just another student? That's

1:00:47

what I meant. No. I said colleague.

1:00:49

I was looking for a colleague. Did you earn anything in

1:00:51

philosophy? Was that a major? Yeah. Actually,

1:00:54

so I didn't realize this, but Rutgers, top three schools

1:00:56

in the world for philosophy. So they had all these

1:00:58

amazing professors. I actually got a really good philosophy education.

1:01:00

I wanted to go to grad school for philosophy or

1:01:02

English. That was my plan. Or I go

1:01:04

to Japan and start and try to teach English. Those are

1:01:06

two amazing things. I

1:01:11

always aspire to understand philosophy. There's

1:01:13

a language to it that I don't know, so you get lost

1:01:15

pretty quick. The problem is that philosophers are often

1:01:17

terrible writers and they were really trying to sound

1:01:20

smart when they were writing because I had this

1:01:22

moment so frequently where I would read something and

1:01:24

it's so dense. I'd be like, I think this

1:01:26

is what they're trying to say. The professor would

1:01:29

be like, yeah, that's what they're saying. Why didn't

1:01:31

they just say it simply? It's

1:01:33

almost a way of making sure people

1:01:35

don't understand you, isolating it from regular

1:01:37

people, which I hated that part of it. It's part

1:01:39

of why I stopped. It's

1:01:43

for so few people in the world that it

1:01:45

seems selfish to pursue something like this. Well, it

1:01:47

seems like the language was

1:01:49

established to continue dialogue with

1:01:52

past philosophers. Whatever

1:01:54

was established early

1:01:56

on around being or not

1:01:58

being and all this. that those

1:02:01

concepts had to hold because so many

1:02:03

of the philosophers were debating

1:02:06

the past to kind of

1:02:08

posit, right? I mean, I don't

1:02:10

know. You're the philosopher. I'm

1:02:13

a stand-up philosopher. Yeah, of course we all

1:02:15

are. Yeah, I think

1:02:17

that's part of it. But part of it also is like,

1:02:19

I mean, some things are so hard to discuss, you have

1:02:22

to go into this like language that's just... Yeah, and

1:02:24

some things are completely useless to

1:02:26

discuss. I mean, it just

1:02:28

feels like I'm not going to sit

1:02:30

here and gripe about philosophy. But

1:02:33

when people talk about philosophy in kind

1:02:38

of a casual way, it's like we've obviously

1:02:40

never read philosophy because it's a fucking nightmare.

1:02:43

Yeah, yeah. That's part of the reason why I

1:02:46

decided not to go to grad school for

1:02:48

it. I took a class called Philosophy of

1:02:50

Metaphors and I would just sit there... Oh my

1:02:52

God, you just got tired. I know. I would sit there

1:02:54

and I'd be like, is this helping anyone in the world?

1:02:57

Right, yeah. Stand-up, honestly,

1:02:59

it helps more people than if you

1:03:01

become a professional philosopher. It just

1:03:04

felt like such a ridiculous thing and pretentious

1:03:06

thing to pursue, but... It would

1:03:08

certainly keep you locked in academia. Exactly.

1:03:11

Yeah. Which now sometimes I

1:03:13

miss that bubble, I think, of going back to the bubble

1:03:15

of academia. It's not easy in colleges now. What's

1:03:18

right and appropriate and what... You know what I

1:03:20

mean? There's just a lot of stuff, not

1:03:23

just diversity or gender and

1:03:25

politics. I mean, on campuses,

1:03:27

the pro-Palestinian movement is...

1:03:30

It's hard to talk about, but I think

1:03:32

you said something recently about it. The

1:03:34

Middle East? Yeah. I've got lots

1:03:37

of thoughts, lots of things. Publicly?

1:03:39

Yeah. And how's that going? I

1:03:42

mean, it made me go back

1:03:44

to Twitter. I'd stop tweeting and then I was like, I

1:03:46

think about it every

1:03:48

day, everything going on there and I feel such

1:03:50

shit every day and I feel like a psychopath

1:03:53

because it seems like every

1:03:55

day I think about the compartmentalization of how we can

1:03:57

just... Did you see the zone of interest? I

1:04:00

mean, it's like that's about us. That's about

1:04:02

us. Totally. And I don't

1:04:05

know, I can't stop thinking about it. And the only way I can

1:04:08

deal with it is by posting things and even

1:04:10

though that's useless as well, it's like maybe

1:04:12

better than nothing. And so I just I post

1:04:14

things just to sort of feel like I'm

1:04:17

going less crazy. And also it's tricky because

1:04:19

you know, whether you identify as

1:04:21

a Muslim person or not, you

1:04:23

are right. I

1:04:26

don't know. I never know how to call myself because I'm not religious

1:04:28

anymore. I mean, like as a Jew,

1:04:30

you know, like I'm certainly focused on

1:04:32

fascism in this country. Yeah. And I

1:04:34

talk about it all the fucking time

1:04:36

and I talk about anti-Semitism. But this

1:04:39

horrendous thing that's going on, this

1:04:41

conflict has shifted a certain

1:04:44

amount of responsibility onto culturally

1:04:47

American Jews because they are

1:04:49

being framed as being implicated

1:04:52

because of the

1:04:54

nature of what Israel represents. And

1:04:57

it's very difficult to have a

1:04:59

public opinion without getting on either

1:05:01

side, without getting torn apart. Yeah.

1:05:03

And you just have to suck that up. And it's disingenuous, I

1:05:05

feel like. I feel like there's just there's like a

1:05:08

small number of actors online and in the real world.

1:05:10

And then they make it their job to make sure

1:05:12

no one can have a productive conversation. About

1:05:14

moving towards a resolution. Yeah. And

1:05:16

stopping the killing. That's the thing.

1:05:18

It's like, shut the fuck up.

1:05:20

For a while, it's changing now,

1:05:23

thank God, to be a more

1:05:25

proactive conversation about ceasefire and a movement

1:05:27

towards resolution of some kind. But

1:05:29

at the beginning, it was like, you know, fuck you for

1:05:32

even thinking that either you're with

1:05:34

Israel or you're with pro-Palestinian. And

1:05:37

then, you know, then there's framing as

1:05:39

some are anti-Semitic, some are fascist.

1:05:41

And then, you know, if you just have

1:05:43

a common sense rational reaction to it, they didn't want

1:05:46

to hear it. Right. Certainly as

1:05:48

a Jew. Right. So it's very

1:05:50

tricky. It's unfortunate to

1:05:52

weaponize racism as just a

1:05:54

way of not having a conversation. It's

1:05:57

like, and to call, then you call out

1:05:59

that tactic. But then there's like

1:06:02

nothing can stop them from just using that as

1:06:04

a bludgeon. Yeah, and it's

1:06:06

so tricky too. In

1:06:08

terms of global antisemitism, this is the other

1:06:11

thing about being a Jew, is that there's

1:06:13

definitely this normalization going on in

1:06:15

terms of the worst parts of

1:06:17

antisemitism. It's a conflict

1:06:20

within me in terms

1:06:22

of how

1:06:24

to talk about it. It's also a problem when

1:06:26

everyone has different bits of information. Half

1:06:29

of it not real. If

1:06:32

you're not seeing the footage of

1:06:34

everything happening in Gaza and then you start

1:06:36

speaking in very extreme terms, people think you're

1:06:38

crazy. It's just because they don't have access

1:06:40

to the same information you do. Yeah,

1:06:43

and I think the bottom line

1:06:45

is that active fascism that is

1:06:47

brutalizing a minority

1:06:51

is bad no

1:06:53

matter where it is. People

1:06:56

make it sound like what's happening right now

1:06:58

is complicated and it's as

1:07:00

simple as should thousands of civilians

1:07:03

be murdered. That's not a complicated

1:07:05

question. Exactly. Right? Yes.

1:07:08

It's just annoying that people try to make it seem like it's more

1:07:11

complicated than that. I feel so powerless

1:07:13

because even us talking about it, it's

1:07:16

not like even if you talk about

1:07:18

it publicly, it's not going to do

1:07:20

anything. Yeah, that's the hopelessness I feel

1:07:22

every day and that's why I post because it's

1:07:24

like, well I don't know, maybe this is something,

1:07:26

but I feel like I'm losing my mind every

1:07:28

day. Do you get flack for it? You

1:07:31

know what's funny? I stopped

1:07:33

checking replies on things. It's a gift

1:07:36

to not check replies. But

1:07:38

I did get a DM from, I don't even know the

1:07:40

name of one comedian, DM me. I

1:07:42

do print called some senators

1:07:45

about Gaza and someone

1:07:47

DM me angry about that. They're

1:07:49

like, your special is produced by

1:07:51

Samorel, a Jew. You

1:07:53

say these. It must be

1:07:55

people who again, don't know what's going

1:07:57

on. They just don't really know what's going on. Or

1:08:00

they're brainwashed by Hebrew school,

1:08:02

the idea of the sovereignty

1:08:05

and the necessity of

1:08:08

Israel as a haven for

1:08:11

Jews in the face of them

1:08:13

being targeted

1:08:17

runs deeper than God and it runs deeper

1:08:19

than almost anything else. So

1:08:21

to rewire that, which is a

1:08:23

basic cultural Jewish education, I think

1:08:26

it's difficult. And so

1:08:28

if you can't see past the

1:08:31

thousands of Jews that were slaughtered to

1:08:34

see the tens of thousands of

1:08:37

Palestinians that are being slaughtered, they can't

1:08:40

make that jump. Right, right. I

1:08:42

think also in general, at least in

1:08:44

America, I really do think that we've

1:08:46

been normalized to think of the Middle

1:08:48

East as a site of war. And

1:08:51

it has been. Exactly. But

1:08:53

I think in people's heads they're like, oh, brown people over

1:08:55

there are dying? Well, that's just what they do. I

1:09:00

mean, I don't think they're actively thinking that, but it's subconscious

1:09:02

there. The fact is, is that a lot of this conflict has been

1:09:04

going on for thousands of years and even

1:09:06

the smartest of people don't really have their

1:09:08

brains wrapped around it. Yeah, I mean,

1:09:10

that is complex for sure. We

1:09:13

don't need to solve it here. Yeah. All

1:09:15

right. I think we could solve it. You do? Can

1:09:18

we get the warring parties on the phone? Let

1:09:21

me ask my therapist who's listening in. Could you get

1:09:23

Natin Naku and

1:09:25

the leader of Hamas on the phone? Because I

1:09:27

think we've got this nails. Shit.

1:09:32

But what happened with that other thing? Like, okay, well,

1:09:35

let's go back. So you

1:09:37

win the contest, you get to play at the stress

1:09:39

factory. Yes. How'd

1:09:41

that go? Well, I believed that

1:09:43

I was going to be doing like five

1:09:45

minutes. That was what it was sold as,

1:09:47

I believe. But then, gracious Vinny thought it

1:09:49

was okay for me to host instead as

1:09:51

someone who has just started.

1:09:54

That's all right. No. I

1:09:56

was like, I was... Oh, so you had to do 10 up front? Yeah.

1:10:00

Warm up a crowd. I don't know what that

1:10:02

how to do that like it was I was

1:10:04

so bad I did the mistake even I remember

1:10:06

this actually Andy Pitts was featuring Yeah,

1:10:09

and I to bring him up and after my 10

1:10:11

minutes. I was like Okay,

1:10:13

guys now. It's time to bring up an actually

1:10:15

funny person like I did that And

1:10:18

so after what he graciously graciously just explained to me

1:10:20

why that's not good to do any dude. No,

1:10:23

Andy. Okay? Finny After

1:10:26

I'd finished my set yeah, I have all my jokes

1:10:28

written on my hand. Yeah comes up to me He's

1:10:30

like that was good, but here are the jokes I

1:10:32

don't want you to do for the next set and

1:10:35

he lists all my jokes and I'm like

1:10:39

I'm like freaking out and then he's like I'm just

1:10:41

fucking with you which he does all the fucking yeah,

1:10:43

but Oddly

1:10:46

I think it was probably a good call

1:10:49

to make you host. Why because it's

1:10:51

a baptism and fire And

1:10:54

like you know, it's gonna suck at

1:10:56

some point, but they're like hosting that

1:10:58

Jersey ass room. I guess yeah I

1:11:01

guess I mean, I mean it is

1:11:03

sort of it would have been nicer to have the

1:11:05

cush guest spot But yeah, you're

1:11:07

right. Maybe I don't even think he was thinking that

1:11:10

hard about it. I'm gonna know you're thinking you

1:11:12

have to pay a house Worked

1:11:16

out for good Then

1:11:21

you go what you how long do you before you

1:11:24

move into New York that was like my home

1:11:26

club for a while Really so you'd go

1:11:28

to open mics Aaron said everyone say yeah,

1:11:30

they still had them for sure it

1:11:33

was a fun little scene and But

1:11:35

I stayed and I guess mostly in Jersey You

1:11:37

got to watch all the guys come in to write all the

1:11:40

comics come in from New York and stuff and do sets Yeah,

1:11:42

that's good for sure. Yeah, it was

1:11:44

great. Actually Bonnie and rich were

1:11:46

often there at the mic on the mic days, too So

1:11:48

we got to watch them She's

1:11:51

funny Yeah,

1:11:57

they're the best body wasn't early

1:12:00

in, so she was actually a, oh no, no, she was

1:12:02

a judge for that festival like the next year, not for

1:12:04

mine. But yeah, watching

1:12:06

her was really inspiring. But

1:12:09

for the first three years I focused on Jersey and then

1:12:11

I moved to Jersey City, so I never actually moved to

1:12:13

New York proper. You moved to Jersey City

1:12:15

now? Yeah. Really? Yeah. Should we

1:12:17

get a house or what? Should you get a

1:12:19

house? Did you get a house? Oh, no, renting. I mean,

1:12:22

at first it was like this is a cheaper

1:12:24

option, but now it's the most expensive city in

1:12:26

the country on average actually. Your rent went up? It

1:12:29

did, but actually I have such a good deal and that's why I can

1:12:31

never leave. I have a really good deal on rent. I was

1:12:34

born in Jersey City. No way. Yeah.

1:12:36

Really? Yep. I don't think the hospital's there

1:12:38

anymore. My dad was born in Jersey City.

1:12:41

What? Yeah. Wait, so did you live in Jersey?

1:12:43

Yeah, when I was a kid. Oh, interesting. Yeah,

1:12:45

I'm genetically Jersey all the way. Wow, you're a

1:12:47

Jersey boy. Both my parents are from Jersey, yeah.

1:12:49

You don't bring that up, do you? Yeah, I

1:12:51

do. You know, when I talk to people from

1:12:53

Jersey. Oh, okay. But I don't, like

1:12:55

we moved out of Jersey, you know, when

1:12:58

I was like six or something

1:13:00

and my dad was in the service and moved

1:13:02

to Alaska for a couple years into New Mexico.

1:13:04

But I always had a relationship with Jersey because

1:13:06

all my relatives are there. So I was there,

1:13:09

you know, for a few weeks, a

1:13:11

couple times a year. My grandmother lived

1:13:13

in Pompton Lakes. The other grandparents

1:13:16

lived in Bayonne, then Asbury Park. Yeah,

1:13:18

yeah, yeah. Well, those are at least

1:13:20

nice parts of Jersey to visit. I guess so.

1:13:22

Bayonne, it's okay. Well, maybe not there, but

1:13:24

Asbury Park. They lived in

1:13:26

this one, but it was before Asbury Park. It was like

1:13:29

when it was not

1:13:31

functioning anymore. I

1:13:33

remember when I was really young, they had the little

1:13:35

ride with the boats and you'd go in a circle.

1:13:37

And my grandparents lived in that one apartment at

1:13:39

the end of the boardwalk, which must've been

1:13:42

seniors apartment, it's still there. But it was

1:13:44

like you'd walk on the boardwalk and it

1:13:46

was just nothing going on. Okay. Yeah, it

1:13:48

wasn't hopping. That still sounds nice. It was

1:13:50

cool. Yeah. Yeah, I

1:13:53

like having memories of Jersey. That's good. So

1:13:55

Jersey City though. Yeah. Jersey

1:13:58

City, yeah. It's... It's fine. And

1:14:02

then, yeah, I spent all my time learning comedy

1:14:04

in New York. Who

1:14:06

was your generation? Was it Sam? No, that

1:14:08

was above me. I don't really. I'm

1:14:11

trying to think of who from that generation is

1:14:13

even like, I don't know, I feel

1:14:15

like Sam's was the last one where everyone could pop off

1:14:17

and stand up quickly. Oh,

1:14:19

really? Sort of, yeah. I

1:14:22

don't know, I mean, my probably best friend

1:14:25

and in comedy is Dan Perlman. Huh? There's

1:14:29

a bunch of yous. Where'd you take that special? Union

1:14:31

Hall? Where was it? My special

1:14:33

was Lincoln Lodge in Chicago. Oh, really?

1:14:35

That's Lincoln Lodge. Yeah. Huh.

1:14:38

When I dressed it up. Yeah, I played there once,

1:14:40

but I wouldn't remember it. Yeah, I

1:14:43

only performed there once before deciding to film it

1:14:45

there. I really liked it. And Sam produced it?

1:14:47

Yeah. And directed it or no? No,

1:14:49

James Webb directed it. How did Sam get

1:14:51

involved with producing? I

1:14:53

asked him to. I mean, Sam's been like the angel on my

1:14:56

shoulders for my entire career. Yeah. I

1:14:58

mean, he's helped me with so much. Yeah. So

1:15:00

I was like, I guess it's time to do a special. Yeah. And

1:15:03

so I asked him, he was like, of course, and yeah.

1:15:06

What was his job in producing it? He paid for

1:15:08

it or he didn't? No, I paid for it. Just

1:15:12

like sort of consulting. Oh, good. Yeah.

1:15:15

Yeah. Good guy. He's the best. Yeah.

1:15:18

He's helped me so much. I can't say his praises enough. So.

1:15:23

Yeah, came out good. I

1:15:25

don't know. What? You're

1:15:27

here to sell it. Right. Great,

1:15:30

your best stuff. It's

1:15:32

the amount of the, this

1:15:36

is everything you've learned and

1:15:38

done. The best of it. Yeah.

1:15:42

Come on. I mean, like I said, you

1:15:44

said it. I look nervous, I hate that,

1:15:47

but whatever. It's fine. It's one

1:15:49

thing. It's the first thing. It's the first thing. You

1:15:51

think you look nervous. I definitely do. You said it. Well, I

1:15:53

know, but I didn't want to be the only one saying it. I just

1:15:55

want to make that clear. The

1:15:58

jokes are good. You were funny, but you know, I

1:16:00

felt it just as a comic. I don't know if anyone else. Of

1:16:02

course, no. I mean, the whole thing with

1:16:04

me, I realized halfway into my career that

1:16:06

people thought I was doing a character on

1:16:08

stage. They're like nervous characters. Like, no, I'm

1:16:10

just nervous. Right. And so, but I had

1:16:12

to break out of that thanks to the

1:16:14

pandemic. And that's happening. It's happening. So the

1:16:17

next special is going to be... Next one. So

1:16:19

confident. Swagger. You know, I

1:16:21

just hold your hats. Yeah.

1:16:23

So let's talk about this like this.

1:16:25

I want to know how you got

1:16:27

through that shit show with the

1:16:29

tweet. If you're

1:16:31

not tired of talking about it. It wasn't a tweet. So

1:16:33

I did... You're talking about the joke about the rapper.

1:16:35

Yeah. Okay. It was for this

1:16:37

week at the Comedy Cellar, that show that was on for a

1:16:39

little bit. I told a

1:16:42

joke about... That means the theme. I cannot stress enough.

1:16:44

I didn't just... I wrote this joke specifically for that

1:16:46

show. The theme was R. Kelly. So I was like,

1:16:48

I'm gonna have this other joke about this other rapper.

1:16:51

And I just didn't know. I didn't know anything

1:16:53

about that guy. I didn't know he had a

1:16:55

cult following of millions of mentally unwell teenagers. Yeah.

1:16:58

And Comedy Central didn't even tell me they were posting the joke. It

1:17:01

was like at first a happy surprise. Like, oh, they posted

1:17:03

a joke online. And then if I

1:17:05

remember the trickle of replies at first that were

1:17:07

like, that's fucked up. I was like, oh, that's

1:17:09

funny. That's exciting. Yeah.

1:17:12

And then it just very quickly spun out of control. What was the joke? So

1:17:15

this guy, this rapper, he died on

1:17:17

his way buying like a motorcycle. He

1:17:19

was carrying like a bag full of

1:17:21

cash to buy a car, whatever. And

1:17:24

these guys robbed him and shot him. And

1:17:26

that's how he died. And so the joke

1:17:29

was just, it's very tragic, but it would

1:17:31

be a really good Venmo commercial. Just...

1:17:34

I mean, to me, it was a throwaway joke.

1:17:38

There's nothing wrong. It's not loaded. No,

1:17:41

it's about Venmo. To

1:17:43

me, the humor was how ridiculous it would

1:17:46

be for Venmo. This huge corporation. That's such

1:17:49

a violent commercial. That's what I thought was funny about it. But

1:17:51

of course it got spun into all kinds of things. I

1:17:53

mean... Racial things.

1:17:56

Racial. I mean, anyone, it was such an interesting prison

1:17:58

for if you had an agenda, that's... how you

1:18:00

approached this thing. I saw the free speeches come

1:18:02

out defending me, like the comedians were coming out

1:18:05

defending me on behalf of comedians. And on the

1:18:07

other side, it was like, this

1:18:09

is a white woman making a joke about black

1:18:11

deaths. Like, and it's like, first of all, I'm

1:18:13

not white. And I posted that because I thought

1:18:16

it might help. I was like, Oh, maybe it'll

1:18:18

help if they think I'm not white. So by

1:18:20

the way, instead of calling me a white bitch,

1:18:22

please call me an Arab bitch. And of course,

1:18:24

that backfired immediately. Everyone was like, you terrorists go

1:18:26

back to where you came from. He

1:18:28

brought in new people. Yeah.

1:18:34

That backfired. And

1:18:37

I was literally getting thousands every day.

1:18:39

How many central did nothing? Well, I,

1:18:41

I spoke to them on the phone for like

1:18:44

two weeks every day, because I mean, of course,

1:18:47

so at the time, their whole

1:18:49

strategy was like, we're not going to say anything because I

1:18:51

don't make this all go away quickly. Right. And I was

1:18:53

in such a mess where I was like, okay, that makes

1:18:55

sense. I want to go away. Whatever you say, whatever makes

1:18:57

us go away. Of course, I had other

1:19:00

comics in my ear being like, they're just being cowards. Like

1:19:02

they should come out and defend you. They should say something.

1:19:04

I was like, I don't know. I just wanted to go

1:19:06

away. And the

1:19:09

provide com provided me with physical

1:19:11

security. I had security at my house because

1:19:13

they talked to me. Oh my God. These

1:19:15

psychos posted my, they thought was my address.

1:19:17

It was my mom's address. I also grew

1:19:19

up in. And so they

1:19:22

had security out there just making sure

1:19:24

nothing happened. Did anything happen? No.

1:19:26

But like when you're in that mental space, you

1:19:28

don't know what's possible. The things I was reading,

1:19:31

I'm like, Oh, someone's obviously going to come try

1:19:33

and kill me. Sure. Of

1:19:35

course. And so, uh, yeah,

1:19:37

nothing happened. But they were, I mean, I have

1:19:39

so many absurd, like I was, I stayed, I

1:19:42

ended up staying with my mom just cause she

1:19:44

was freaking out. And uh, I would,

1:19:46

I would like gather the courage to like go

1:19:48

outside and like go to the mall. I was

1:19:50

like, I'll go to the mall and the security

1:19:52

guard would come like shopping with me. Wow.

1:19:55

So weird. I would see terrorized.

1:19:57

I was scared. I would see teens in the mall and it

1:19:59

built like, oh my god, they're gonna recognize me, they're gonna try

1:20:01

to fight me. And of course nothing

1:20:04

happened. You realize the internet is this own world.

1:20:07

But also, but that is

1:20:09

the effect that psychological terror

1:20:12

takes. That's what

1:20:14

they, that's the best hope that they had

1:20:16

was to make your life terrifying.

1:20:18

So you either learn this lesson

1:20:20

or never speak again. Exactly. I

1:20:23

don't know if they know that as a group, that

1:20:25

that's what they're doing, but that is the

1:20:27

intention. That's the effect. Or

1:20:30

to get you canceled, which I don't think

1:20:32

that seems like a cancelable offense in

1:20:35

terms of whatever that means. But

1:20:37

that didn't sound like that's what they were trying to do. They

1:20:40

just wanted you to be schooled.

1:20:44

Yeah, it was a mixture of that. And like, it's

1:20:46

funny, I was so naive at the time. There was

1:20:48

some messages coming from, whenever there was somebody who messaged

1:20:50

me and it seemed like I could actually communicate with

1:20:53

them, I would DM them and be like, hey, do

1:20:55

you want to talk about this? And of course I

1:20:57

never got a reply because that's not the point. They

1:20:59

didn't want understanding. They were also using it for clout

1:21:01

for their own brand of like, I mean, famous rappers

1:21:04

were making statements about it. Like, you're really offended

1:21:06

by this fucking little girl making a joke about

1:21:08

this guy. No, you're doing it so you can

1:21:11

seem high and mighty. Oh, that's interesting, right?

1:21:13

And like be a news story. Like, I

1:21:16

mean... Kalamon, Pylon. Yeah. Like,

1:21:18

I mean, the most annoying thing was that, I mean,

1:21:21

I don't think this is probably

1:21:23

true but I mean, the first person

1:21:25

who posted about it and

1:21:27

it got a lot of traction was a comedian.

1:21:30

And like, that was the thing of like, he

1:21:32

was obviously doing it for clout to see it.

1:21:34

Like, even though he had a show with Comedy

1:21:36

Central, like, oh really, you're upset? Why don't you

1:21:38

DM your friend at Comedy Central instead of making

1:21:40

this post about it because it's obviously not about...

1:21:42

And you knew this guy. I didn't know him but

1:21:44

he was around. And

1:21:47

then from there, like, other outlets picked it up because he

1:21:49

had a big following, I guess, a big-ish

1:21:51

following. But I think it was the same thing

1:21:53

when it happened, whether he posted it or not,

1:21:55

because like, it just went crazy. So how

1:21:57

did it all... Did it just

1:21:59

eventually... It just faded.

1:22:01

I mean, I was getting messages

1:22:03

for a year. Like it was a year.

1:22:07

I have screenshots of some of the messages still.

1:22:10

It was like the craziest thing that's ever happened

1:22:12

to me. But

1:22:14

it didn't stop you from doing work or getting work.

1:22:17

Well, I mean, it's funny because right before it

1:22:19

happened, I had this like little deal with Airbnb.

1:22:21

They were doing these like comedy experiences in New

1:22:23

York where I come hang out with the comedian

1:22:25

and they picked me into other comics. And so

1:22:27

I just finished filming the promo for that. And

1:22:29

it was going to be a good chunk of

1:22:31

money at the time. It was like six thousand

1:22:33

dollars. And then we had to cancel that

1:22:36

because they were like, I don't think it's a good time for

1:22:38

strangers to be able to come meet you. Wow.

1:22:40

And so there was some, I did lose

1:22:42

some money as a result, but, and I

1:22:45

was scared. They were sending me

1:22:47

messages like, we know you're going to be here. We'll kill you if you

1:22:49

show up. So. Oh my God. Yeah,

1:22:52

for a while. Yeah. So

1:22:55

you did lose a job. So that is sort

1:22:57

of, you know, in the umbrella of cancellation in

1:22:59

a way. I mean, it

1:23:01

compromised your ability to work. Yes.

1:23:03

It was very frustrating. At the seller, I

1:23:06

was going up under a pseudonym just in

1:23:08

case. Yeah. It was

1:23:10

just. There's a few women that do that

1:23:12

at the comedy store just for individual stalkers. Oh

1:23:15

my God, really? Yeah. That's such

1:23:17

a shame because then people can't show up and see

1:23:19

them because they don't know. Well they can go do their

1:23:21

bigger shows, but when they're just working out, you

1:23:24

know, where yeah, yeah,

1:23:26

it's a, it's a fucked

1:23:29

up world and it's, it's easy

1:23:31

to fuck someone's head up. That's

1:23:33

my fear of having a stalker. It's not happening yet. And

1:23:35

I was afraid I was going to, something was going to,

1:23:37

someone, it only takes one mentally ill person to be like,

1:23:39

okay, I'm going to go kill that person. Or

1:23:41

just make their life horrendous. Yeah. Yeah.

1:23:45

And there were so many. And there's nothing you can do about it really. I

1:23:47

mean, I had a little moments of fun where. I

1:23:50

used to have a woman park in front of my house. Really?

1:23:52

Yeah, for months. And did you

1:23:54

try to say anything or? She'd bring me presents and

1:23:56

sit out there and watch, you know, things on

1:23:59

her iPod and on her iPad and come

1:24:01

to shows. It was like, you know, it just. And

1:24:05

then she just lost the gift. Eventually,

1:24:07

well yeah, if you don't engage, you

1:24:10

know, with that, with a one-on-one

1:24:13

stalker situation, you know, eventually

1:24:15

they do lose interest, yeah.

1:24:18

Wow, and you never called the cops or anything? I did, on

1:24:21

the one in front of my house, but they're like, you know,

1:24:24

I'm like, I know there's nothing you can do, but maybe just,

1:24:26

you know, ask her if she can go away.

1:24:29

At least like search her, make sure he doesn't

1:24:31

have a gun or something. Oh yeah, yeah, death

1:24:33

threats are the worst, yeah. But

1:24:35

the cops really think like, well, it's kind of part of it, and

1:24:37

I don't know that it ever was part of it. And a lot

1:24:39

of times, it really depends

1:24:42

on your relationship with

1:24:44

your own social media and with your

1:24:46

own, you know, like if you're on

1:24:48

it all the time, looking, like everybody

1:24:50

who's really famous, more famous than us

1:24:52

certainly, has lunatics. Yeah. So eventually

1:24:54

you just have to not deal with it.

1:24:56

But they at least can afford like having

1:24:59

security everywhere and like. Right, that's true. But

1:25:01

that's true. But that can't do your life. Yeah.

1:25:03

Also a bad way. But everything's okay now?

1:25:06

Oh, yeah, I mean, I'm trying to think

1:25:08

of the last time I got a message, it was definitely during the

1:25:11

pandemic because whenever something happened in the news, they

1:25:13

would change their insults. So it was like, I

1:25:15

hope you get coronavirus. Oh, right. Yeah,

1:25:18

yeah, yeah. So

1:25:20

that happened that long, and long enough ago for

1:25:22

it to have passed. Yeah,

1:25:24

but yeah, pretty much over. So

1:25:27

what's going on like now? You're plugging the special,

1:25:30

but are you just doing stand up? You've written

1:25:32

for a lot of things too, right? I write

1:25:34

for the Daily Show now. Now you do? Mm-hmm.

1:25:36

What's going on over there? Daddy's

1:25:39

back, Chase, John Stewart's back. Once

1:25:41

a week? Once a week on Mondays. So you write for

1:25:43

him? Uh-huh, on Mondays. Yeah.

1:25:46

And then the correspondent to the rest of the week. And.

1:25:49

Were you ever up to do the correspondent thing? Well,

1:25:52

I only started there recently. I started like. Maybe with

1:25:54

this newfound charisma. Yeah. I

1:25:56

found zero fuckness. You're, you're.

1:26:00

become a correspondent. Well,

1:26:02

since I'm newish, I don't think they allow the

1:26:04

new writers to try out or be considered. How's

1:26:06

the vibe over there? I

1:26:09

actually love it. I really love being there. I'd

1:26:11

never thought I'd be happy in an office job,

1:26:14

but it filled this void that I'd been feeling

1:26:16

for years of not feeling a sense of community.

1:26:19

With Stand Up You Know How It Is, you have your scene and

1:26:22

everyone goes their different ways. And I was

1:26:24

like, oh, I don't feel that anymore. And so being

1:26:26

there has really filled that void in a really positive

1:26:28

way. And you can go to work and it's focused. And

1:26:31

it's structure. Like I really needed structure. I didn't

1:26:33

know how badly I needed structure. What do

1:26:35

you mostly do over there? Monologue

1:26:37

jokes or joke jokes or how's it work?

1:26:40

Well, we have like a morning meeting where we watch

1:26:42

all the videos of the news. They're gonna talk about

1:26:44

that day. People casually throw out ideas and jokes. And

1:26:47

then we go to our computers and we pitch, they

1:26:50

tell us what they need specific jokes for and then

1:26:52

we all write them and then they choose their favorites

1:26:54

and it goes into the script. How's it

1:26:56

feel to have, I wonder how it feels to have a

1:26:58

job back there? Is it like

1:27:00

when he comes, I mean, you weren't there when

1:27:02

he was there. I was, no. So does it

1:27:04

shift the environment? I

1:27:07

mean, it's exciting, but like, that

1:27:10

was kind of, the

1:27:13

work is done the same way. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:27:16

Are you working on any other shows or any

1:27:18

movies? Are you writing a thing? I'm writing a

1:27:20

thing. You got a big plan. I'm

1:27:22

out there pitching. Me and my friend,

1:27:25

co-worker Matt Koff, very funny comedian. Trying

1:27:27

to work on a little tune. A

1:27:31

tune? Cartoon. Oh really? Yeah,

1:27:33

I've always wanted to. I loved, my dream is,

1:27:35

I've always wanted to do voice acting. I have

1:27:37

had a couple, thanks to Rami, I did a

1:27:39

role that was so much fun on his show

1:27:41

that's coming out on Amazon at some point. I

1:27:44

was voicing a suicidal lamb, which I feel

1:27:46

like it's just perfect for me. And

1:27:48

so. That could have been the name

1:27:50

of your special. Yeah. And

1:27:53

so I want to do more of that. So I would

1:27:56

love to just have my own cartoon and do voices that

1:27:58

to me, that'd be so much fun. Yeah,

1:28:00

well, maybe it'll happen. Voiceover's fun. I

1:28:03

did the Bad Guys movie and it's great. Oh

1:28:05

yeah? Yeah. I did the Bad

1:28:07

Guys movie, which is a pretty big DreamWorks movie. Now

1:28:09

they're making another one. And DreamWorks is

1:28:11

like 10 minutes from my house. So I'm like,

1:28:13

easy. Isn't it cushy? Easy commute. Well, it's fun

1:28:16

when you can get in the room with other

1:28:18

people. A lot of times with voiceovers, you're isolated.

1:28:20

I was isolated, yeah. Yeah, but it's kind of

1:28:22

fun when you can get it all going on.

1:28:24

That sounds fun. It was fun. Because it's like

1:28:27

Craig Robinson and Sam Rockwell and Aquafina. That's amazing.

1:28:29

And Anthony Ray-Mouse. And yeah, it's funny. That's

1:28:31

so fun. Yeah, it's fun. Well,

1:28:33

it's good talking to you. You too. Thank you.

1:28:35

I think we solved a lot of problems here,

1:28:37

both personally and globally. I think we

1:28:40

just did it. We didn't address climate change, but

1:28:42

I don't know if we can really add to

1:28:44

that conversation. I have zero knowledge. It's

1:28:46

bad. Oh, okay. All right.

1:28:48

Talk to you soon. That

1:28:55

was good. I like her. Good

1:28:58

comic. Smart. Good

1:29:00

writer. All of it. Her

1:29:02

special Dark Little Whispers is streaming on Prime Video.

1:29:05

Go watch it. Hang out for a

1:29:07

minute. Hey,

1:29:10

folks, it's time to discover what's now

1:29:13

playing in Los Angeles. Let's start with

1:29:15

food. I just had Chef Michael Simon

1:29:17

tell me that Los Angeles is home

1:29:19

to the best food in the country

1:29:21

right now. And of course it is

1:29:23

when you have so many cultures and

1:29:25

diverse backgrounds cooking up anything you can

1:29:27

think of. How could it not be?

1:29:29

I like to go to Scaffs in

1:29:31

Glendale. Sometimes I go to Joy in

1:29:33

Highland Park for Chinese food. But that's

1:29:35

just me. Los Angeles is synonymous with

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Start here at discoverla.com. That's

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discoverla.com. People,

1:30:18

the last Ask Mark Anything episode is now

1:30:20

up for Full Marin subscribers, so go check

1:30:23

it out to hear me answer questions like

1:30:25

this. On your second CD, ticket still available,

1:30:27

there's a great hidden track where you name

1:30:29

the feral cats Meanie, Monkey, Hissy, and Fuck.

1:30:32

Aside from Monkey, did any of the other three

1:30:35

cats stick around in your life for any reasonable

1:30:37

amount of time? Did you guys ever really bond

1:30:39

at all or did those three remain feral? Well,

1:30:43

let's see. I remember

1:30:45

Hissy. I remember Meanie. I don't know

1:30:48

if Fuck became Fonda because LaFonda was

1:30:50

one of that original litter. Monkey and

1:30:52

LaFonda were with me for 16 years.

1:30:55

Meanie split very quickly. A

1:31:00

bodega across the street wanted a cat and I

1:31:02

brought him over there and he was just too

1:31:04

feral and he disappeared into the

1:31:08

world. Hissy, I actually found

1:31:10

an owner. I don't know how that cat is

1:31:12

doing because they were all pretty feral, but a

1:31:15

woman did take Hissy. It was a

1:31:17

black and white long hair and kind

1:31:20

of a cool cat. But

1:31:22

yeah, so I definitely bonded with Monkey and

1:31:24

LaFonda. They were with me for their whole

1:31:26

lives. To sign up for the full Marin

1:31:28

so you can get bonus episodes twice a

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1:32:02

at betterhelp.com. That's betterhelp.com. And

1:32:04

don't forget this podcast is

1:32:06

hosted by Acast. Here's a

1:32:08

little guitar from the vault.

1:33:00

Thanks for watching. Thanks

1:33:30

for watching. Boomer

1:34:11

lives!