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1:01

Lock the gates! All

1:11

right, let's do this. How are you,

1:14

what the fuckers? What the fuck, buddies?

1:17

What the fucksters? What's happening? I'm

1:19

Mark Maron. This is my podcast. Welcome

1:21

to it. That episode, when

1:23

was it? A couple of

1:26

weeks ago. I'm still thinking about that Malcolm

1:28

McDowell episode. Oh my

1:30

God. I still

1:32

think about that one. And that's nice. That's

1:35

not always the case. There's so many

1:37

good interviews coming up. Because I want you to know

1:39

that this

1:42

episode was actually prerecorded

1:44

so Brendan could have

1:46

some well-earned time off. And

1:50

so if anything has happened since

1:53

right before I went to Austin, like

1:56

if the world ended or one

1:58

of the old guys died. everything

2:00

is thrown into chaos or

2:03

even little things. I won't

2:05

be addressing it. Not that I do necessarily

2:07

anyway, but just know

2:09

this is pre-recorded. But I'm here with

2:11

you now. I'm here with you now. Today

2:14

on the show I talked to Paula Pell. This

2:17

woman was mythic to me,

2:20

someone that I'd heard about in the

2:24

world of comedy as just one of the

2:26

great geniuses, writers, performers.

2:28

But I had no real experience of

2:31

her outside of not knowing that

2:33

she'd written certain SNL stuff. But I'd

2:35

always heard about her. And

2:38

she's on this show on Netflix

2:41

called Girls 5 EVA,

2:43

which is funny. But before

2:45

that, she's always

2:47

just been known as

2:51

one of the funniest people

2:53

that many funny, funny people

2:55

know. She wrote

2:57

on SNL and 30 Rock. She writes for the

2:59

Oscars and the Golden Globes. She's

3:02

been a kind of a go-to script

3:04

doctor for Hollywood comedies. She

3:06

wrote the screenplay for the Tina Fey movie,

3:09

Tina Fey and Amy Poehler, that movie Sisters.

3:12

And I just didn't know what to expect, but man, what

3:14

a man. She's a

3:16

character. She's

3:18

definitely herself. She's

3:20

got a point of view. And it was

3:22

great talking to her. It's always interesting to

3:25

me to meet these people that

3:27

I've heard about forever, but I have no point of

3:29

reference. I got a little up to speed, but

3:32

it was very exciting. Very

3:35

exciting to meet Paula Pell.

3:38

I'll be in Montclair, New Jersey

3:41

on Thursday, May 2nd at the

3:43

Wellmont Center, Glenside, Pennsylvania near Philly

3:45

on Friday, May 3rd at the

3:47

Keswick Theater, Washington, D.C. on Saturday,

3:49

May 4th at the Warner Theater,

3:52

Munhall, Pennsylvania outside Pittsburgh on May

3:54

9th at the Carnegie Library Music

3:56

Hall, that old haunted weird place.

3:59

Cleveland, Ohio. It May tenth

4:01

of the Playhouse Square Detroit, Michigan

4:03

on May eleventh at the Royal

4:05

Oak Music Theater in go to

4:08

wtfpod.com/two or for all my dates

4:10

and links to tickets. I've.

4:13

Been would arrive and do and

4:15

have been exploring. The. The

4:18

world of the gun sees a bit.

4:22

I didn't really want to, but.

4:25

Sometimes. You want to have things

4:27

that seem like the things you seed are you

4:30

excited to eat? In the past I was never

4:32

big cheese guy. Not. A cheese

4:34

head. I'm not

4:36

Day as I was instilled

4:38

with a very strong no

4:40

fear of most dairy. By.

4:43

My mother. My

4:45

brother's a little lactose intolerant. I don't

4:47

think you'll be mad me exposing him.

4:50

But. I like cheese but it was is not part

4:53

of my died nor was milk. Or

4:55

no milk, really? And obviously

4:57

I like ice cream but I just

5:00

to me when I look at dairy

5:02

of any kind, it literally looks like

5:04

sat to me like that's what that

5:07

looks like and a job form. But.

5:10

I have been the I tried this. what

5:12

is it Mickey Mouse is at the name

5:14

of the brand they had make Death and

5:17

Aged. Cheddar. V

5:20

Gun. She's now. A

5:22

member those Uma that stuff that port wine

5:24

spread. My dad used to love that stuff.

5:27

It was a port wine see spread. came

5:29

in a little plastic ten with a red

5:31

top. I don't know who made it bad.

5:33

Very kind of like. Pungent, Tart.

5:36

Cherry flavor to it. And.

5:39

This stuff. Has at as

5:41

well. But. I know it's not.

5:43

Cease. And I'm I don't

5:45

really like facsimile food. I don't like. V.

5:49

And food that is been made to.

5:53

Replace. Or. Or

5:55

copy. non

5:57

vegan food have a problem with look

6:00

eat a Beyond Burger, but I'll take it

6:02

for what it is. This doesn't really taste

6:04

like a hamburger, but it looks like one.

6:06

It feels like one, has its own taste.

6:08

It's fine. Don't

6:10

like fake wings. Don't eat. I don't

6:12

like too much fried shit, but

6:16

this vegan cheese, I don't like

6:18

the, I don't love the

6:20

vegan cheese slices because they are literally

6:23

just slices of oil, gelled

6:26

oil. And I know that because

6:28

they don't seem to go bad ever. I'm

6:32

not waffling on the vegan thing,

6:34

but I'm getting a bit bored

6:36

and I'm getting a bit tired of my

6:39

protein options. I mean,

6:41

how many fucking chickpeas can I eat? How

6:43

many beans can I eat? How much air

6:45

fried tempeh can I eat? I'm not missing

6:48

the meat. And I know that it

6:50

doesn't matter. Am

6:52

I getting all my oils? I've

6:55

been taking, I'm just doing a tablespoon of

6:57

fucking walnut oil now. And then

7:00

the woman I work out with, she's

7:02

like, what about algae based omega threes?

7:06

I don't know. I guess what's

7:08

happening, folks, is I'm desperately

7:10

hanging on to something I have

7:12

control over in my life as

7:15

I enter the unknown. I know

7:19

the context of my job upcoming. I know

7:21

the context of my comedy

7:23

and whatnot, but you know, once

7:25

I walk out the door, who the fuck knows? But

7:29

man, if I can just take a handful of vitamins

7:31

I take every day, whether they work or not, that

7:33

makes me feel like I have a little control over something.

7:36

There's no evidence that any of it does anything.

7:40

You know, I think

7:42

I'm just scrambling. Like where, how am

7:44

I, there's just so few things. And

7:47

then I start to fix things around the house. Yeah,

7:51

I've become obsessed with this. The fact that

7:53

I have not watched the leaves of my

7:55

rubber plant yet. That's ongoing. Tightening

7:58

screws a bit. cleaning inside,

8:01

light fixtures, going

8:04

out and doing actual shopping, trying

8:06

to mail a table. How

8:09

do you mail furniture? Well, you

8:11

hire someone to do it, not me. I'm gonna

8:13

take that thing out in the car, I'm gonna

8:15

go shop around, I'm gonna go to shipping places.

8:17

I had a conversation the other day about pallets

8:20

and crates and a lot of money. What

8:23

about taking it apart? These are the things that

8:25

sometimes fill part of my day just

8:28

to feel like I have some control

8:31

over something. God

8:34

damn it. The

8:38

vegan thing, I used to do a bit about

8:40

that. It's an ideological eating disorder. Look,

8:42

I'm on board with it. But

8:45

there is sort of that control element to it. I'm

8:48

just seeing it as it is,

8:51

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9:54

So yeah, I just get out in

9:56

the world, occupy my time With

9:58

minutia. Small

10:00

tasks, multitasking, Bullshit.

10:04

To. Feel like I have some control

10:06

of my life? Mana. We worked

10:08

on that panel little bit. Maybe. That

10:11

needs a little work. Butters You tried

10:13

to fix the cabinet. What?

10:15

About. What's

10:17

going on with the lavender plants?

10:19

wires? a falling down. Get.

10:22

On it, there's a full day folks

10:24

is what I should be doing as

10:26

a creative work know. But. He

10:28

gives me the illusion. Of

10:31

Control Friends The Illusion

10:33

of Control. I

10:36

don't know, man. I just don't know where

10:38

I don't know what we're supposed to do

10:41

with this new time. I

10:43

mean it's I do I as you

10:45

can educate it's. In order to

10:47

buy stuff. Yeah. You gotta go

10:50

to a store in a lot of stores don't even

10:52

exist anymore. So we've been put in this position to

10:54

buy everything on lines. But what about shopping a little

10:56

bit? and what do we doing with all this freedom?

10:58

time? Just. Like letting

11:01

our phones emotionally jerk us

11:03

around for anywhere from ten

11:05

minutes, them five five hours.

11:09

The. Scrolling thing I got a pullout. I

11:11

got. I like sometimes I lay in

11:14

bed, I just flip through those Instagram

11:16

reels. I enjoy watching a yeah, a

11:18

couple of a Tourette's Influencers. I

11:20

often for the wrong reasons. I feel bad

11:22

that they have it, am happy that they're

11:24

normalizing. it's but some of them when they

11:26

when they took out and they say things.

11:29

It's it's. pretty fucking funny. And.

11:31

I'd as think they know that. I.

11:34

Think that if it's filthy and raw enough,

11:37

That. The. Yeah, I can

11:39

accept it like I don't judge it's

11:41

I'm sorry they're gone through it. but

11:43

dumb. Some. Some has

11:45

some says is very funny and I do.

11:47

They know that. I think they know that.

11:50

I'm. Unhappy their normalizing tourette's. But are we

11:52

not supposed to? Get a

11:54

laugh sometimes. When. Somebody

11:56

says you're done. Little.

12:01

I mean, come on, come on, you are

12:03

not the father. I'm not

12:06

going to, you know, tell you who that one is,

12:08

but man, it's honestly, I

12:12

can't get enough

12:15

of some of those

12:17

ticks. And I, maybe

12:19

I'm wrong, you can point it out to me. Somebody

12:22

tell me I'm wrong. I'm fully

12:24

aware that they have a

12:27

neurological problem. I

12:31

know it's hard for them. And

12:33

I know that normalizing it and

12:35

making it something

12:38

that, you know, people can

12:40

identify and not be weird about.

12:43

I know all those things and I engage with all

12:45

that. And I believe that I have empathy. But

12:48

boy, sometimes they say

12:50

some shit is just,

12:52

you know, hilarious. Maybe I'm jaded. Maybe

12:55

I've seen way too much

12:57

organized, planned comedy, some improvisation,

12:59

but there's nothing more genius

13:02

than just unfiltered fucking,

13:04

you know, id blasting

13:07

out of someone with this neurological

13:10

disorder. Is there a balance

13:12

there? Is what I'm supposed to

13:14

learn from it just to ignore

13:16

it? I don't know. I

13:19

don't know. I'm good with it

13:22

either way. And I've

13:24

seen this particular influencer

13:27

on television shows and

13:30

sometimes the host can't help but laugh. I mean,

13:32

I think they know that. But I don't know

13:34

that they milk it or anything. But I

13:37

think that's part of it, right? It's part

13:39

of the normalization. Anyway,

13:42

maybe I should just stop scrolling in general. Because

13:45

I don't know where it picks up. I

13:47

guess it hears me. I've got a lot

13:49

of Peter Sellers lately. I probably got more

13:51

Grateful Dead going through there than I need. I

13:54

get a lot of big cooking in

13:57

exotic places. I get...

13:59

I get guitar stuff, I

14:02

get some Karens, I get that guy.

14:07

There's another one, I don't know his name either.

14:09

I'm not promoting influencers here, but there's

14:12

a guy who just looks, he dresses up like

14:14

a janitor with a beard and he acts really

14:16

nerdy and he goes to gyms and

14:19

he walks up to dudes lifting like

14:21

a ton of weight and

14:23

they're just like these muscle dudes and this guy

14:25

looks like a little unassuming dude and he'll go

14:27

up there and tell them that the weights are

14:29

fake and then he'll just lift it three times

14:32

and these big fucking turgid

14:35

weight bros who are

14:37

fucking ripping out of their

14:39

clothes, they, it just emasculates

14:41

them so beautifully and so

14:43

perfectly that I can't get enough of

14:45

it. Yeah, anyways, vegan

14:49

cheese, Tourette's influencers,

14:52

what do we do with all the new time we

14:54

have? And yes,

14:58

I think we've done enough here. I

15:01

hope you're well and now

15:03

let's meet Paula Pell. All

15:07

seasons of Girls 5 EVA are

15:09

now streaming on Netflix, including the new third

15:11

season. It was a thrill to talk to her

15:14

and she's definitely funny

15:16

and a character and

15:18

a brilliant person. So

15:21

here we go, strap in. We've

15:26

talked about doing this with you for a long

15:30

time,

15:37

I feel. I moved, my

15:39

wife and I moved back from

15:41

LA three years ago so I

15:43

live in Woodstock. Wow, I

15:47

know your wife, right? Janine Bredo. Yeah, I

15:49

mean, she was around the comedy thing for

15:51

a while at some point somewhere. She's a

15:54

good egg. She's

15:56

a real good damn good egg. That's good that you got a

15:58

good egg. You know, let's hit her middle. with the egg.

16:00

Well I got I got some

16:03

of them don't make you sick right away. No no you're

16:07

surprised that the pathogens have to like

16:09

cook in your egg. I guess yeah

16:12

I guess this egg was bad. I

16:14

don't know man. I got divorced after

16:16

17 years and my ex-wife is

16:20

lovely person still friends with their lesbians

16:22

do these stay friends. You can do

16:24

that. And then and then I

16:26

came out here just thinking I was gonna

16:29

just have the most like

16:31

idyllic fun gay time because I moved

16:33

out of the Hudson Bay. I was

16:35

living up there in New Paul and

16:38

I was like I'm getting rid of the house we're

16:40

gonna I'm gonna go to New York I mean LA

16:42

with my best friend and we're gonna have so much

16:44

fun. And then I got here and I

16:46

was like oh wait I'm in my 50s. I'm like I'm

16:49

with all these cute

16:51

gay girls in their 30s.

16:53

Yeah. Sitting in parties house

16:56

parties going. They're all coupled

16:58

up. But you landed one. I landed

17:00

the best of all. There you

17:02

go. I landed a cute ass

17:05

darling sweetheart. Yeah. Funny dear

17:07

person. Thank God. But so

17:10

you live in Woodstock? Yes I

17:12

live in Woodstock. Talk to me about

17:14

the benefits of that.

17:17

Well I feel like the Hudson Valley I

17:20

moved there the first time in the early

17:24

90s to New Paul's and I didn't know how

17:26

cheap it was there and my friend yeah anytime

17:29

I ever went in New York City

17:32

to outside of New

17:34

York City we would shoot at the

17:36

Douglas house at SNL we would shoot

17:38

our commercial parodies yeah at the Douglas house

17:41

in the Palisades. Yes. And we get in the

17:43

car and we get out of the

17:45

city and I was like wait there's grass because

17:47

you don't think that exists anywhere

17:50

like ours. Yeah. And so

17:52

I just always would look at it and

17:54

just pine and go someday I'll be able

17:56

to have a yard with my dogs and I

17:58

can then drive into the city. city to work,

18:00

whatever. So one of my friends that

18:02

lived in the city in

18:04

New York with me said

18:07

one day, I wanna show you and

18:09

your wife my house and

18:11

everything upstate, because I show you that whole

18:13

area. So she took us on a whole

18:16

day tour of all those towns up in

18:18

the Hudson Valley. Yeah, Hudson. And we could

18:20

not believe. Rhyme deck. But that's the more

18:22

expensive side. But like the other side of

18:24

New Pals and all that area, we

18:27

could not believe how idyllic and incredible

18:29

it was. And then we started looking

18:31

at houses and we bought a five

18:33

bedroom house that had been renovated by

18:36

two gay men, so impeccable. And

18:39

it was five acres,

18:41

five bedrooms for $260,000. Come

18:44

on, what year was that? It was

18:46

in the 90s, early 90s. So

18:48

for years, that was like my, people

18:51

would come up and visit and they'd be like, what did this

18:53

run you? And I'd tell them $260,000. And

18:56

they'd be like, why are we

18:58

not up here? Well, it took the pandemic,

19:00

then everyone came up. Now you can get

19:02

a shoe box up there for $260,000. Yeah,

19:05

nothing. Well, it's just, when

19:08

was that? Well, you grew up,

19:10

where'd you grow up? I grew up in

19:12

Joliet, Illinois until I was 15. Suburbia?

19:16

60, yep. And

19:18

I grew up until I was 15. And then

19:20

we moved to Orlando, Florida. Oh my God. And

19:23

my dad got a job. That

19:26

was supposed to be just two years with AT&T when

19:29

they were doing that. In Orlando? They were

19:31

doing that antitrust suit with the government,

19:33

with all the telephone companies. The monopoly

19:35

thing? Yeah, the monopoly thing. And so

19:38

he got a job in what

19:40

he was doing at the time in data

19:42

or something for the phone company.

19:45

And he answered this ad of like, do you

19:47

wanna go to Florida? And we used to go in

19:49

our camper and go to the camp

19:51

near Disney or whatever. He really grew up

19:53

in that kind of like American suburban trip.

19:57

We do the camp and we'll pop up Apache.

20:00

and we'd never went in a hotel unless there

20:02

was a tornado. So like to even today when

20:04

I go in a nice hotel, I feel like

20:06

I'm doing something bad because I grew up Catholic.

20:08

So I'm like, I'm going to have to pay

20:10

for this karmically that I get to go in

20:12

a hotel. You're waiting for the wind? Yes, I'm

20:14

waiting for the sound of the train, which is

20:16

the sound of a tornado. Anyway,

20:18

we moved to Florida and my parents

20:21

sent me because there was no internet

20:23

obviously at the time. They

20:25

sent us two Polaroids in

20:27

the mail because they were there for a week

20:29

to pick out a house. And

20:31

they sent us two Polaroids of this house

20:34

and they had a pool. Now I never

20:36

in Joliet, there was one girl that had

20:38

a pool and her family had a jewelry

20:40

store. And it was like, she's the one

20:42

with the money. They had a pool, probably

20:44

the size of like a tiny

20:47

driveway, like

20:49

the tiniest pool inside

20:51

their house. Inside that. It was an indoor

20:53

pool. And we just thought like that

20:56

was the- Did you go swim over there? Probably

20:58

not. But like the

21:00

ultimate wealth. And then my

21:02

parents showed this picture of this house and

21:04

at the time in Orlando, they

21:06

bought a four bedroom house with a gigantic

21:09

pool and it was $65,000 for the house.

21:13

So I kept thinking like, what are my parents

21:15

in the mob? Like what is actually happening?

21:17

I was very confused and my sister

21:20

and I got there and

21:22

I left an all girls little Catholic

21:24

high school that I knew every teacher

21:26

and loved it and was

21:28

so into all my classes. And I was

21:30

like, just loved all the social, like

21:33

all the, just had so much fun.

21:35

And then I moved to a giant

21:37

public school where like the first day somebody yelled

21:39

at me in the hall for not like being

21:42

in my class. And I was just

21:44

like, I had always known my

21:46

teacher. It was just a different-

21:48

Traumatized by- And there were

21:50

boys in the women's bathroom. What?

21:54

Yes. And so- They had a V-curve,

21:56

I guess. I was really

21:58

traumatized. And then- They're boys in

22:00

the women's bathroom. Just talking to some girl.

22:03

That's how you'd seal the deal, Mark. You go

22:05

in the women's bathroom, wait for her to come

22:07

out. She's washing her hands and you're like, what's

22:09

up? It's a cool move. I mean, I've done

22:12

it as a lesbian before that I go in.

22:14

That's like a women's bathroom. Yeah, exactly. And it's

22:16

not as shocking, I would think. I

22:20

try the same move. It doesn't.

22:22

Yeah. So was it,

22:24

like, how Catholic were you? I

22:27

was very Catholic, but I

22:30

have to say, looking back, because

22:32

I've been around, obviously, in Florida,

22:34

like the hardcore Christian

22:37

church people and all

22:39

that. Is Catholic growing up in

22:41

Illinois, we didn't really learn that much about

22:43

the Bible and stuff. We

22:46

were Catholic and you did all the Catholic

22:48

things. But I didn't grow up

22:50

with a lot of intense. Well, no, the new Christian is a

22:52

new thing. The new Christian is

22:54

so much different. It's a full lifestyle choice. I

22:57

mean, back in the day, I grew up Jewish.

22:59

You just are like, I go to the thing.

23:01

Yeah, exactly. But it's not like a life. And

23:03

all my nuns were

23:06

Dykes. They were all like secret. You

23:08

know, now they're on Facebook. I'm like,

23:10

oh, hi, you and your partner. How's

23:12

it going? Really? Yeah, there's so

23:14

many gay nuns. And

23:16

they- And you're in touch with some of

23:19

them? Yeah, there's one that was one of

23:21

my music teachers. Hilarious. Wonderful. And I've

23:23

said hi to her on there. Not a nun

23:25

anymore, I'm taking it. And it's just not a nun, not a

23:28

nun. They worked through it. They came in the middle of the

23:30

night and took her habit. Did

23:33

they really? No, they didn't. You're out.

23:35

She probably burned it in

23:37

the front lawn of the church. That's sort

23:39

of an interesting relationship to have. Where's that

23:41

movie? Where's that comedy? No

23:43

shit. An older

23:45

lady that's not, how would we cast it,

23:47

Mark? Who could play it? Well,

23:49

you're good in this new thing. Oh,

23:53

my god. Oh, but

23:55

let me not interrupt you about lesbian

23:57

nuns. No, I just, at the time, it

23:59

was always- that thing that I was

24:01

so unaware that I was gay and

24:03

then but I knew that I was

24:05

just different and then I would have

24:08

these nuns that were like those

24:11

kind of younger but definitely gay nuns

24:13

that were kind of those guitar mass

24:15

nuns where they were 70s kind

24:17

of you know very and then

24:19

they just we just had this kind of

24:21

thing we're not in any way like they

24:24

were right interested in me or anything those

24:26

are the priests but

24:29

they really just had that look

24:32

of like oh honey yeah you

24:34

don't know you're a baby like oh god

24:36

bless yeah god bless well when did you

24:38

when does that sort of reveal itself to

24:40

you well my first girlfriend and I were

24:43

best friends in high school and in Florida and

24:45

we were so enmeshed with

24:47

each other that we would sleep in

24:49

the same bed of two twin beds in her

24:51

room at night sure and we would sit

24:53

and like hold hands because she was gonna

24:56

go away to college we would hold hands

24:58

and listen to music of that era of like

25:00

88 right around 1980 we'd

25:03

sit and listen to a song and cry and then

25:05

we go if somebody walked in right now they'd think

25:07

we were lesbians like that's

25:09

how out of our

25:11

yeah ability to see

25:14

it in front of our face so that

25:16

the attraction wasn't clear

25:21

oh it was clear but we just were

25:23

like we are the best friends on earth

25:25

and we lay on each other going to

25:27

choir trips because we feel

25:29

safe with each other and we love each

25:31

other and we'll be there for each other

25:33

when we get married and have kids and

25:36

we will with that our

25:39

weddings will kiss each other and we will

25:41

like it's like a mended you

25:44

just can't just go yeah I want to kiss

25:46

you I want to make out with you and so right

25:48

after college right after high school yeah then

25:51

we were like we were in that phase

25:53

you know right before two people are gonna get together

25:55

where they're like being really pissy with each other

25:57

we fought all the time well guess what But

26:00

then I don't, and we had a big fight. We

26:02

went on a choir cruise, our final thing

26:05

in school, because we sang together and

26:07

stuff too. We went on this choir

26:09

cruise and we fought the whole time, because we were also

26:11

boozers. Panked up, yeah, yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we

26:13

were high school and we were in Florida. It was like

26:15

a lot of house parties. And

26:17

we would sit and get drunk and then we'd

26:20

get sad, because we're not gonna be around each

26:22

other and we'd play music and then we'd just

26:24

be like, I don't

26:26

know what, you know, we'd get pissed even. It's

26:29

like, you just need to make out. Just go

26:31

take a swim in the pool and make out.

26:33

I don't know what. I don't know, what do you want? What

26:36

do you want from me? So it's someone who had to make the

26:38

first move. Yeah, and we finally did and then we

26:41

were like, oh my God, and. Was

26:43

it a relief? Oh my God, it was such

26:45

a relief. It was a release

26:47

and relief, but

26:49

it was such an era where you could

26:52

not, you just could not be that.

26:54

Like there was no world where you

26:56

could be like that. And we had

26:58

gay friends that were males that were

27:00

still closeted, but they went every weekend.

27:02

So we would go with them and

27:04

be at the gay bars and dance

27:06

all weekend and party. Still

27:09

had to be secret. But it had to be

27:11

so secret and you had to, the hardest thing

27:13

about it, I will say, in kind of a

27:15

grim note at that time

27:17

is when she and I finally broke up

27:20

like further into college. We stayed together for

27:22

a few years. There

27:24

was a big breakup and she kind of broke

27:26

my heart at the time, she was all my

27:28

friend and she knows that she broke my heart.

27:31

And it's a sorry about it, but it

27:33

was very devastating to me and I

27:35

couldn't have anyone comfort me in my

27:37

family because they didn't know. So I'd

27:39

go come home to visit Orlando and

27:42

she'd come home for Christmas. We'd see

27:44

each other. It would end up me

27:46

driving home, scream crying, so sad,

27:48

broken. And then I'd get home

27:50

and my mom would go, well, you're

27:53

gonna see Susan? She's your friend your whole life.

27:57

They did not have any idea that

27:59

I literally. like the biggest

28:01

first love heartbreak in my life. You

28:03

couldn't tell your parents, you know? It's so sad. It's

28:05

so sad, that was the saddest part. She tried to

28:07

be helpful. Because the other part is, you know, like

28:10

we used to go, we're taking,

28:12

Mom, we're taking a nap. It's

28:14

like we had, we had Almaden

28:16

wine that we would put in

28:18

football cups with ice. Oh, the round bottle,

28:20

that round bottle? That round bottle, you could

28:22

get two different sizes. We get the big

28:24

giant aspirin, and we'd put it in those

28:26

Almaden cups with ice, and it

28:28

would be like a big gulp

28:31

full of wine. We'd drink that all

28:33

day, you know, hanging out in the summer, and then

28:35

we'd be like, Mom, we're taking a nap. And

28:38

then we'd go and lock the door. And my mom

28:40

would be like, is your door locked? And we're like,

28:43

let's disengage from each other for a moment so

28:45

we can answer the door. So when you're

28:48

out to them, you came out to them eventually.

28:50

Yes, I did, but pretty late. In my 40s,

28:52

early 40s, I met, because

28:56

then after that, I did

28:59

that. But did she say, like, we

29:01

always knew, was it one lesson? No, this is what my mom

29:03

did. I had diarrhea for five days

29:05

in fear of coming out to them at Thanksgiving that

29:07

year, because I had met a woman, and I was

29:09

pretty sure I was gonna have another relationship, because I

29:11

went for years at SNL. Zero relationships,

29:13

male or female, nothing. Because I

29:16

just, that first one was so heartbreaking, and

29:18

then I just got so into my job

29:20

at SNL. But it lasted that long? You

29:22

didn't have any other relationships? No, nothing. I mean,

29:24

I wasn't, Mark, I was, I

29:27

grew up the fat girl in school. I didn't

29:29

really get a lot of action anyway, so having

29:31

a pause wasn't really like, I wasn't going without

29:33

it. That sounds like a 20 year pause. It was

29:35

a pretty big pause. But I just never,

29:38

because I also, I think Deep Down was

29:40

so afraid to kinda

29:42

make it real, that oh, if I

29:44

re-engage yet now with another woman, that I'm

29:46

really, then that's it. Then I gotta tell

29:49

my fans, like, Gotta live the life. And

29:51

I still have a joke with all my

29:53

SNL friends when we'd have hosts that were

29:56

like some hunky guy. They'd always go, what's

29:58

the percentage this week? There was

30:00

like four percent straight or he agrees that yeah,

30:02

and I got bumped up to seven this week.

30:04

you know, theory? That was a joke here. So,

30:07

but. I really I really was so

30:09

scared. Thanksgiving I had is just a

30:11

pet my stomach for days and I

30:13

find it was like i gotta do

30:15

it I gotta do it I had

30:17

his i have this new friend she

30:19

was definitely. More of a up a

30:21

masculine predicted presenting her sets and like

30:23

my mom would go. I

30:26

saw your said he saw your

30:28

friend in California. She is a

30:30

sporty. She looks really sporty. She's

30:32

to say sporty. So we

30:34

we. I came. Over and Thanksgiving

30:36

and I was like. Talking.

30:39

Around in circles like the slightest my is know

30:41

that I'm you know I just don't want you

30:43

to be a disappointed by says I probably won't

30:46

have to I probably won't have kids and she'd

30:48

be like won't even if kids follies in snow

30:50

but I guess if I wouldn't would not have

30:52

kids because I probably won't get get married I

30:54

may not get married and I just could not

30:57

get to the fucking points and finally I was

30:59

just like because the as my girlfriend she's my

31:01

girlfriend and she the said. I.

31:04

Thought she would cry your up the like

31:06

to engage to the is very loving parents

31:08

thought she would be like will it's okay

31:11

but i it makes me feel like sad

31:13

maria scared for you or whatever and says

31:15

a little bit quiet. When. You're scared the shit out

31:17

of me. And then she She was

31:19

like okay, well I figured. So we

31:21

figured so and then she to tell me

31:23

that years ago says she found my letters

31:26

from my first girlfriend and that she read

31:28

some of a seizure like will I knew

31:30

back in the day it was like you

31:33

could have. He could have saved me so

31:35

many years. Of like might have

31:37

no having have changed the story of

31:39

like you know, having to pretend and

31:41

pretend Harrys with the all up and

31:43

say ever ever have both producing she's

31:45

until you because you thought was a

31:47

Little Pets Oh one hundred percent rise

31:49

to say about my friend Here is

31:51

my best friend in high school that

31:54

I ended up Susan. Used

31:56

to say about. Her she always used

31:58

say Seasons picky. She'd always galore. Susan's picking.

32:00

I'd be like, she'd be like, is Susan

32:02

a boyfriend anymore? Because she had one in

32:04

high school and not anymore when she got

32:07

a load of me. Yeah. But

32:09

she was like, she's

32:11

just, Susan is very picky. And I'm like,

32:13

yeah, she just wants vaginas. She

32:15

just wants to be with a

32:18

man with a vagina. But after you came out, was

32:21

the relationship with your folks fine? Yes.

32:24

Oh, that's good. It took a little

32:26

while. I mean, you know, they would have this discomfort,

32:28

those very Midwestern of like, you know, if I said, you

32:30

know, I think we're going to get married because we got

32:32

married. Yeah. It was not with anybody.

32:35

It was just kind of we couldn't even find any because we

32:37

couldn't get married in New York. So we

32:39

went to Connecticut. So we went and

32:41

had like in some weird little hotel,

32:44

like it was an eco-friendly, beautiful hotel

32:46

with these two lesbians. And they did

32:49

these ceremonies because she was a whatever

32:52

of a piece. What do you call that? I'm

32:54

old. My, you know, the

32:57

justice of the peace. And

32:59

then she also had this beautiful place where

33:01

they cooked for you and they had a

33:03

little ceremony. It was all it was like

33:05

their dog was the witness. You know, it was it

33:07

was very was it legit. It

33:09

was legit. You had to still file. So we

33:12

went and filed. And I remember us going

33:14

in there was one of the few towns that

33:16

you could go then and get legally

33:18

married. Yeah. And I remember just

33:20

going in a

33:22

in a jewelry store that was a very downtown.

33:24

You know, there's always that jewelry. The old jeweler.

33:26

Like the people who had the pool when you're

33:28

growing up. Yes, exactly. It was that jewelry.

33:30

And I just remember us looking at what.

33:33

Yeah. And just having

33:35

that deathly. There's like the old guy

33:38

in the back sitting with the

33:41

watchmaker's loop on

33:43

his eye, looking

33:45

at us like,

33:47

and we just were trying to

33:49

just kind of peek at stuff, but they they

33:52

could smell it. Did you buy rings

33:54

there? No, we didn't buy. So when

33:56

you're in Orlando, was Disney World a

33:58

thing yet? Yeah. I actually

34:00

ended up going to college at UT

34:02

Knoxville and then I came back and

34:04

I performed at Disney for many years.

34:06

So you went to UT Knoxville for

34:08

acting? For a theater, but also because

34:10

it was near my girlfriend who was

34:12

in North Carolina going to college. Susan?

34:15

Susan, so I

34:18

didn't say that at the time, but

34:20

I was like, I wanna do something

34:22

in the Appalachians area. How

34:25

did Susan end up? She is

34:27

great. She lives in England and

34:29

she was a therapist for many, many years. She's

34:32

awesome and still friends with her and

34:34

her long time wife and everything.

34:36

But I ended up coming

34:39

back and getting a job

34:41

at Disney performing and it

34:43

was so fun. I did

34:45

that up until I did

34:47

SNL. I did Disney for three years

34:49

and then I did Universal for almost two

34:51

years at the theme park. So what was

34:53

the training that you got? Was it

34:55

pretty thorough? Acting wise, theater

34:57

wise? I got my degree

35:00

in theater. I did four years. I did

35:02

a lot of theater, a lot of musicals

35:04

and also drama weirdly, because in the eighties, it

35:07

was like all those like extremities and

35:10

Agnes of God and all those really great. I

35:12

did all of them and I was always the

35:14

mother superior or the, you know, I was always

35:17

the older one that comes in. Did you like

35:19

doing that? Oh, I freaking loved it. I loved,

35:22

I remember at the time thinking like, why

35:25

is this so fantastic? Like when I

35:27

have to cry or something

35:29

in something that was so dramatic, because I

35:31

was a comedy, I was a ham and

35:33

everything, but I was like, because you're

35:36

being asked to have emotion, you don't have

35:38

to hide it and

35:40

you get to do it. If you do it

35:42

well, if you just let it happen, then people

35:44

clap, like it's as opposed to going,

35:47

just get yourself together, get your shit together.

35:50

They actually embrace it. You're having a

35:52

breakdown. Yeah, shut it down. Not now.

35:55

Don't start. And

35:57

I lived, like I grew up with a, one. family

36:00

that we were emotional. If

36:03

I came in crying, my mother and father would be

36:05

like, oh my God, they would be very loving to

36:07

me. They didn't tell me I couldn't. But

36:09

it was just an era. It wasn't

36:12

a therapy era. You didn't like... But it's the

36:14

Midwest too, right? Yeah, you didn't come in and

36:16

just, you know... When I first moved to Florida, the

36:18

most hilarious thing is I

36:20

always thought I was very loving around my

36:22

friends. We were all, we loved

36:24

each other. We were party together. We were

36:27

such a fun group of friends. I

36:30

moved to Florida and the first

36:32

day I got in the, I auditioned for the

36:34

choir, concert choir. I moved,

36:36

I got in there, they had a

36:38

very competitive concert choir, like state championship,

36:41

all this shit. And I

36:43

got there the first day and everyone was hugging

36:45

each other. Everyone was hanging on each other,

36:47

hugging each other. And I thought it was

36:49

somebody's birthday. I kept saying, oh, it's somebody's birthday. The

36:52

teacher, all of them, she's the director. She made

36:54

come up to her, hi. I

36:56

was like, oh, did somebody die in her family? And I kept

36:59

trying to figure out why everyone was touching

37:01

each other. And then I

37:03

realized that it was a completely different

37:05

way of not like my Midwestern

37:08

upbringing, where it was like everyone was always

37:10

on each other, which worked out when I

37:12

was trying to cover that my best friend

37:14

and I were doing it. Oh,

37:16

good. So it paid off. We could wrap around

37:19

each other, like I said, on the choir bus.

37:21

That was just the sort of like theater community,

37:23

the choir community. Yeah, it was just they were, the

37:26

South, I guess, everyone was just very affectionate

37:28

and what other and do you

37:30

still sing? I still sing. I sing

37:32

in the show and I and that's right.

37:34

Yeah, I watch that. Yeah, I sing in

37:36

the show and you

37:38

know, I mean, I am like a B

37:41

minus singer. I've been trained singer,

37:44

but I am a good blender. I'm a

37:46

really good harmonizer and but I'm

37:48

working with, you know, Renee Golsberry

37:50

and Sarah Brelas who are like

37:52

insane talent and busy's got a

37:54

great voice. Yeah. And so

37:57

sometimes, you know, they'll send me, they'll send

37:59

us to learn and I'm

38:01

the alto always. And they'll send us

38:03

the parts that their stuff is very,

38:05

you know, all flowery and everything. And

38:07

they'll go, okay, and yours is the

38:09

medium time. Just time

38:11

for us. And

38:14

then you stay on that for the next three

38:16

pages and then doubt. You know, so

38:18

it's a lot of like anchor. It's

38:21

really my personality. It's the gay

38:23

anchor. But you never thought about like

38:25

doing cabaret or anything? Well,

38:28

I have actually, you know, I did that

38:30

co-op that documentary now where

38:33

I played Elaine Stritch.

38:35

Oh yeah. We did that company

38:37

parody. And when I did that, I was

38:39

really like, I really would love to do

38:41

some kind of cabaret. It seemed like you

38:44

could put together a hilarious show. Yeah,

38:46

because my wife and I just did a show at

38:48

Bell House in Brooklyn where we told

38:50

our origin story because we have a

38:52

very filthy but heartwarming origin story. And

38:55

was this for a moth or something? No, we just

38:57

did it. We did a show there

39:00

and it was so much fun. We kind of

39:02

threw it together, but it was like, you know,

39:04

an hour and a half. What was it called?

39:06

It was called Pelrito because she's Janine

39:08

Brito. So we just put our names together. How

39:11

many times did you do it? Oh, we just did it that one

39:13

night. And then we went right into

39:15

starting to promote this and

39:17

we're writing a movie. So

39:19

we just did it because

39:21

we'd never done it. And

39:23

we've always told these stories about how we met and

39:26

all this stuff. And then somebody was

39:28

like, you gotta get up on

39:30

stage and do that together. And I

39:32

think we had done it in like a podcast. We

39:34

told the story and, but

39:37

then we did a bunch of other stuff. We

39:39

had, I, cause I wrote Debbie Downer with Rachel.

39:41

So Rachel came and married us at the end

39:43

as Debbie Downer. We did a lot of, we

39:46

had friends, John Lutz and different other people come

39:48

and do stuff. We had a

39:50

great musician, Meg Tooey, who's a

39:52

friend of Sarah Brawless do some

39:54

of her songwriting like great songs,

39:56

heartbreaker songs. And we showed a lot

39:58

of funny. Dean had one

40:01

of our parts of our story is that when we

40:03

had our first date, she was like, she

40:05

had cancer in high school and

40:08

her make a wish was to go to SNL

40:10

and I was a writer there and I was in

40:13

the monologue. It was Eminem

40:15

and Rob Lowe. And I

40:17

was like, Jesus Christ, she's younger than me. I

40:19

knew she was 20 years younger, but she was old enough. She

40:21

was in her 30s and I was in my mid-50s. Sorry.

40:26

Thank you. So we just

40:28

always have these like we had so

40:31

many weird things like that. Like, wait, we were in the

40:33

same room and I had lines

40:35

with Rob Lowe in this monologue and

40:37

he was there as this senior

40:39

in high school make a wish. But in the show,

40:42

we did a thing where we told that and

40:44

then she had this picture that made

40:46

everyone absolutely die laughing

40:48

because she was homecoming queen and she always said to

40:51

me, I was homecoming queen just because I had cancer.

40:54

She goes, that's the only reason I'm homecoming queen. And

40:57

there's a picture of her sitting in

40:59

a convertible like you do with the homecoming

41:01

queen, sitting up where they

41:04

set up on the end with this gorgeous

41:06

tall girl next to her who

41:08

was like the runner up homecoming queen. And

41:11

she just said her name is like Kimberly or

41:13

something. She goes, not this year, Kimberly, I got

41:15

the big C. You're not going to make it.

41:17

And she looks like 100 percent

41:20

like the clip art of homecoming

41:23

queen. This girl was born to wear

41:25

the crown. And here's

41:27

Janine with her bald head sitting there

41:29

waving. Oh my God. Like everyone

41:31

voted for me. Sorry. That's

41:34

a great story. So

41:36

you're in Florida. So your theme park

41:38

experience was good? It

41:40

was so weird and good. And

41:42

I have to say those jobs back

41:44

in the day, I think it's changed a

41:46

lot because they stripped a lot of those

41:48

live performers and comedy people because there are

41:50

tons of comedy actors that were worth it.

41:53

Yeah. When Brady did stuff like

41:55

a lot of those people were

41:57

amazing. A lot of my friends out here.

42:00

in LA. He was from Orlando, was he there when you

42:02

were there? Yeah, we worked together and they,

42:05

the thing was I got a

42:07

theater degree, I came home, broke a shit, you

42:09

know, my parents were like, you got to come home

42:12

and work for a while. I auditioned

42:15

for a job out there

42:17

and I got it and then I was making like 700

42:20

bucks a week with insurance,

42:23

full everything and I worked at night

42:25

so I didn't even go till... Were

42:27

you a character? I worked at

42:29

this crazy place called

42:32

The Adventurers Club that was

42:34

at Pleasure Island. For a while in the 80s and

42:37

90s, they had this place called

42:39

Pleasure Island at Disney World where

42:41

they had an entire island of

42:44

nightclubs. So it was like a

42:46

disco, a comedy improv place. So

42:48

for grownups? All for the grownups. So the parents

42:50

would like get a babysitter in the hotel or

42:52

whatever and they'd come let it rip

42:54

and it was every night was New Year's

42:56

Eve. So at midnight, there'd be this huge

42:58

party outside and they had

43:00

a Western dance club and it was always

43:03

packed to the girls. Well, the place I

43:05

got hired was called

43:07

Adventurers Club and it was like

43:09

a 1930s like

43:12

social club with adventurers, like Teddy

43:14

Roosevelt kind of character. And there

43:16

was a character named Pamelya Perkins,

43:19

the president of the club and

43:21

it was this matron funny body

43:24

lady. But it wasn't... It

43:26

was cartoony but it was more theater.

43:28

It felt very theater like we did

43:30

radio shows. Was it scripted? Part

43:33

of it was scripted but then the first

43:35

cast really developed a lot of the comedy

43:37

and it became kind of the script of it.

43:40

But we would do comedy shows, we did scripted things

43:42

and then we did radio shows

43:44

and musical cabaret. Do you think that's

43:46

where you kind of started putting together the ability to

43:49

write? Yeah, I

43:51

think so. But up until I walked

43:53

into SNL and had that

43:55

meeting, Which I was like, what is this for? Because all

43:57

I had done is acting and they were like, well... We.

44:00

Saw you in a pilot of Sketch.

44:02

Comedy and you wrote that Those things that you were

44:04

doing those characters right now I'm like, yeah, but I'm

44:06

not a. Writer: Like

44:09

I could. I wrote my whole life but I never

44:11

would let. Myself of like to. I really

44:13

thought it was some completely other skill

44:15

sets plus anything I knew of. Snl

44:17

was it was Harvard guys that was just

44:20

I thought they were going to be like

44:22

but who you know, who's who's aunt came

44:24

in and wandered in service to the writers'

44:26

room but you're you're working as a theme

44:28

parks and are you do another acting as

44:30

well. I did. I was on acts as you

44:32

know at the time Orlando with Can. Are trained

44:34

to be. They called this third coast the

44:37

are trying to do a lot. Nickelodeon was

44:39

there for years. I would always be the

44:41

adults in in shows and Nickelodeon or Mickey

44:43

Mouse Club where it was a bunch of

44:45

young kids that were very talented. Like a

44:47

lot of them ended up being big star

44:49

Your yes I would always be the adult

44:52

that was like. Jimmy.

44:56

Radio is it was the it was

44:58

not the funny part. in out like

45:00

you'd you'd come in and just be

45:02

the bomber he apparent drugs an advil

45:05

A I'd go in and do it

45:07

and somebody recently. I was on Seth

45:09

Meyers the other night and they showed it

45:11

on the show because somebody recently. Who

45:14

was in this with me sent me. A

45:17

thing for Mickey Mouse Club. And it

45:19

was Brian Dazzling as he was about.

45:22

Eleven via playing my son be a

45:24

whole stats and I did not nose.

45:26

Run dazzling and you know it on Tv. It.

45:28

Was on Tv at the time and he was

45:30

just a young kid in the cast and somebody

45:32

put it on the internet and they're like i'm

45:35

this is Rank As and I was like. Said.

45:38

That's my skin. It was me to set the

45:40

table with him talking and ah yes, and it

45:42

was one hundred percent the. He looked exactly like.

45:44

The himself. Oh and land, grab

45:46

some Kenan. Thompson when he was little he

45:48

he would be in all that and I was

45:50

does. A lot of things for that to see.

45:52

Know you knew him when their kids and under

45:54

a lot of lady I was in the ladder.

45:56

I did lottery commercials that were this line of

45:58

lottery commercial. As. Though I did all

46:00

these things that made me feel like I'm doing

46:03

this as a career and and. And.

46:05

You know I oh yes it any time like I go.

46:07

Shoot a commercial in Miami and they'd have

46:09

a hotel for me and exits to go

46:11

in. know tornado i guess ago and and.

46:13

Dislikes: Sit and and they give.

46:15

Me like you know, Thirty dollars for. A

46:18

per diem My as so it gave me

46:20

that excitement are going I'm a working I'm

46:22

a one thing after yes for Dmz Agree?

46:24

Ah, even for only three hours Console you?

46:26

Surprised I'm convinced that pretty Ems that I'd

46:29

probably a mode like three hundred thousand dollars

46:31

and for be pretty hims over the years

46:33

just. As I feel like I never hear

46:35

of them and then every so often they'll

46:37

go oh they have a per diem like

46:39

for you he I go So been saying

46:41

that the is. That like a thing always

46:43

when you're doing know I know that air

46:46

or or sometimes you just you know the

46:48

you can just hear what everyone photo foods

46:50

our meals and you don't think of it.

46:52

oh my god the more they did it

46:54

on purpose or my problem is I'm terrible

46:57

in hotels because I just want to keep

46:59

ordering food and I love I love ordering

47:01

food in a hotel I just lower drank

47:03

lego your love it. And so the

47:05

else they'll be like. You're getting a hundred dollars in

47:07

for V M and then I'll get like. Four.

47:10

Hundred dollars worth of food and I'm like

47:12

no it doesn't work like up Paula like

47:14

you're not benefiting You decide who suffers am

47:16

sit in the room and have them bring

47:18

yeah and I'm also very I'm getting better

47:20

but I'm very bad about I've always always.

47:23

Always. Paid the bill. I'm always

47:25

the person that's like via sneaking at

47:27

figuring out the really sneaky as way

47:29

to do idea everyone ago when it

47:31

wears the belly and I have a

47:33

coin grand the I I had a

47:35

nice arab be now but I've had

47:37

enough therapy that I know Now that's.

47:40

My. King reacted just deserts that I don't

47:42

need to be doing as a result of

47:44

with versus. we should have more self care

47:46

than that for with nowadays in a vacuum

47:48

cows a pathological as be the the one

47:50

hundred are they now. Not big shot at

47:53

off it's I gotcha I got and times

47:55

that I've had been hit getting my utilities

47:57

cut off. It's like maybe you don't cast

47:59

them. for maybe five meals.

48:02

Was it a codependency thing? Yeah, oh, I'm

48:04

a total recovering codependent. Oh

48:06

yeah, that's a tough one. Oh

48:08

my God, so codependent. And

48:11

now I'm like 60 and all filters, my filters

48:13

now, I

48:15

am not codependent, no. I just am not,

48:17

no. I'm so kind and loving. You've

48:19

got boundaries now? But I just have so many

48:21

goddamn boundaries now. It's just like, no. Yeah,

48:24

one of the boundaries has some fuck you to it.

48:26

Well, it's all just truth now. I

48:29

never told the truth. I was Midwestern, then I

48:31

moved to the South. Like no women in those

48:34

two places tell the truth. So, you know, my

48:36

grandma used to say, oh God, I love that

48:38

soup. And then she'd go, I didn't care for

48:40

that soup. And like, that was

48:42

my whole life, was you don't hurt

48:46

people's feelings. You have a personality.

48:49

You just don't, you're not, don't be

48:51

troubled. When was the moment where you realized

48:53

I'm done with this shit? Oh,

48:56

I think because I spent, so

48:58

many of those years were glorious because we were all the

49:01

same age. So it was like friends

49:03

and, but at SNL I was

49:05

mom. I was the teat. I was a

49:07

big caretaker there. And I also was creating

49:09

comedy with them. So I was, and

49:12

you know, some of these people are all

49:14

just, like I said, wonderful

49:16

friendships, wonderful. But I made

49:19

that my role. Even if they didn't want

49:21

it, I was the comforter. I

49:24

was the comforter. And you need a lot of

49:26

comfort when you're SNL because you're either

49:28

failing miserably or you're the absolute

49:31

shit talker, the most incredible thing

49:33

of the night. And so

49:35

there's like devastation all the time. And

49:37

so I would just put all my

49:39

devastation away because maybe my sketch got

49:41

cut. I would just put all of

49:43

that away. I would, it would

49:45

all be about me comforting them. And then I would go

49:47

home and eat like three pizzas and

49:50

put a cork in my sadness. And

49:52

so I did that in relationships and

49:56

I did that at work for sure. And

49:58

then I just kind of turned around. corner at

50:00

some point in my 50s where I started

50:02

going I'm just that muscle is gone like

50:04

an atrophied I just don't I don't have

50:06

it in me to to just

50:08

be that role I want to comfort myself I

50:11

want to you know it's exhausting and you end

50:13

up you end up

50:15

like with a shattered self oh my

50:17

god my therapist said codependency is pulling

50:19

up on fumes in

50:21

your car gas station and putting the

50:23

gas in the other car and watching

50:26

it drive away which

50:28

is exactly exactly I get it

50:30

you're depleted it's sitting there yeah

50:32

there's no cell service you actually

50:35

hit like a classic

50:37

codependent bottom yeah oh I had so

50:39

many bottoms and okay so how do

50:41

you get from from what

50:44

do they see for SNL how do you get from

50:46

Orlando to SNL they saw a

50:48

pilot I did with some of

50:50

the actors in in Orlando that were

50:52

comedy actors they had a place called

50:54

Sac Theater that was like a big

50:57

kind of the second city of Orlando yeah you

50:59

know and they were doing so many

51:01

so many talented people came through there

51:03

and and Jonathan Megan who

51:06

does you know the game

51:08

show with with Wayne yeah they

51:10

they were all so talented and so

51:13

incredible at improv I didn't really do improv

51:15

I was more theater and comedy yeah I could improv

51:17

if it was like music or I if I

51:20

loosen myself up I just didn't have the schooling

51:22

right a lot of people had a bit of where

51:24

there were all the rules of second city or ground

51:26

leader but I could get loose and and do it

51:28

but I loved being characters I

51:31

loved creating them or or writing

51:33

them for myself yeah and I wrote

51:35

a character in this pilot they did I wrote

51:37

a couple characters and one of them was a character

51:40

that was a choir

51:42

director who was singing Led Zeppelin so

51:45

I just came up and got my music on

51:47

the stand and then I was you

51:51

know and I sang the thing yes and

51:53

I talked to this my invisible

51:56

choir there and it was Very successful in

51:58

the pilot and everything. And then

52:00

I was just sitting in the green. Room

52:02

at my. Now. Job

52:04

at Universal Studios which was a daytime

52:07

theme parks that so called Murder she

52:09

wrote post production show is all about

52:11

the making of Murder she wrote and

52:14

it was a giant so like with

52:16

theater where the hundreds of. People

52:18

coming in every two hours. Every

52:20

and and forty five minute. And that's what it was about.

52:23

It was about the making so we played

52:25

all the post production I was an added

52:27

I was the date he are person that

52:29

would. Bring someone from the audience and that

52:31

was a universal proper the know that universal near

52:33

as to set the theme park here and that

52:35

show but that show yes and I was sitting

52:38

in the green room it was still you know

52:40

accorded phone on the wall and I got a

52:42

call from my local agent and she was like

52:44

are you sitting down and I suggest. And

52:47

She said. Snl

52:49

saw that pilot to they were it

52:51

was dizzy produce said so they were

52:53

time out trying to sell it and

52:55

she said Snl saw that pilot. And.

52:58

Lauren once to meet you. He wants to

53:00

talk to earnest libraries and Ice had been

53:02

the most obsessed with us now. My

53:04

whole life mueller I used to audiotape.

53:07

Every episode on that shag carpeting

53:09

with my Panasonic tape recorder. Organ

53:11

of our season. All. Of it

53:14

Via I. Had always loved it. I in

53:16

high school I. Did Roseanne Roseanne advantage for

53:18

like school assembly lawyers as I just

53:20

as a to subsist when you always

53:22

hear a huge fan. And

53:24

I said, well. What? Is

53:26

it like what in in there like?

53:28

It's not an audition and those are

53:31

cool but homeless at and so I

53:33

bring mean I support my character discuss

53:35

this in case I needed to like

53:37

breaks into some learn meeting it's system

53:39

one meeting he he's interested in you

53:41

sexually and and I was like surprise

53:43

I. Was just in case you're

53:46

and I was so terrified.

53:48

For you have a. Tip: They flew me up.

53:50

I they picked me up at the

53:52

airports I went to at to N

53:54

B C. I walked in that building

53:57

just shitting myself and. I walked in and

53:59

I came in and. You've been delayed because he

54:01

sometimes as late for meetings. he was late so

54:03

I got to know all the people in the

54:05

talent department talk to them and they ordered food

54:08

and I just remember being so nervous. They said.

54:10

Hey. We're ordering at as an palette you want

54:12

a thing and I said i'll have a side

54:15

of rice and i sat and eight this like

54:17

dry. Rice like run white rice. As

54:19

I was so nervous and I came in

54:22

and sat down and he just started talking

54:24

and he was like you know we're we're

54:26

We've kind of cleaned house. This year it

54:28

was ninety five weeks we've. You.

54:30

Know most of the writers are gone. we've now

54:32

ribs. Hired all new

54:34

Rider yes and almost all new cast and

54:37

we're looking for one more writer and we

54:39

we would like to see if you wanted

54:41

to be a writer and I was like.

54:45

I mean, I literally told them I don't

54:47

I, I don't. I've never done. I was

54:49

like I'd never written for Tv, I've never

54:51

touched a computer, I don't know how to

54:54

do any of it. And they were like.

54:56

That's this is where you learn that like this is

54:59

where I mean if they're like you wrote all the

55:01

stuff we saw right night as I guess but. I

55:04

would start trying to talk them out of hiring me do if

55:06

it came. So fast that I thought that was

55:08

wrong with that was like is this a scam

55:10

that happens sometimes with learned as he get. It

55:12

suited up like a drunken like gonna

55:14

bring some destroy someone's doing this little

55:17

chubby lady from Florida and says and

55:19

that next a theme park year and

55:21

bring your and and then she gets

55:23

his blog just been Jump off the

55:25

dirt Roger Bridge. And so

55:27

they said, you have to be her And

55:29

five days. Soil and Home and quip my

55:31

theme park jobs Gave my dogs to

55:33

my mom temporarily and I just got

55:35

in a plane and came and stayed

55:37

in a hotel for the first month

55:39

and got a little apartment and then

55:41

I just say they're from was twenty

55:43

years. So. Who like you

55:45

get their you move up here and when

55:48

what's the first day like oh I was

55:50

terrified but might shoemaker who is like still

55:52

to this day one of my dearest friends

55:54

he's on the old the other writer and

55:56

producer producer they are created Sas and Jimmy

55:59

shows and. And I'm best

56:01

producer on the earth. And he. He.

56:03

Just knew because. I

56:06

oh I really thought. It was gonna be just

56:08

like I thought it can be for small. The

56:10

only woman I thought that I was the be

56:12

the only one that didn't have like television writing

56:14

permits. And I. Was very scared

56:16

of the Harvard aspect the really

56:18

be all these dudes that looked

56:20

at me like last year and

56:22

so I he. Had two other women

56:24

cindy cap an era. And Laurie now.

56:26

so an issue here are awesome. People

56:29

Amazing Stealth deep friends of mine

56:31

and they were there and they

56:33

were. Actors to and they also wrote

56:35

and they hired them to and so

56:37

he knew how scared I was because

56:39

I kept saying you know, hotel room

56:41

says that or some other senior girls

56:44

exactly. What he said: He called

56:46

me three days before. Last I

56:48

would I would have still done it, but I

56:50

was literally like having a breakdown where I my

56:52

mom would. Say like what's the worst scenario

56:54

and I'm like the worst scenario is. Going.

56:57

To my dream place and fucking it up

56:59

because I'm not doing the thing that ice

57:02

and skill that for that plays like and

57:04

it would be devastating and so I went.

57:06

I went there with. And. I got

57:08

a call right before he left and Shoemaker was like.

57:11

They're. Super! The wanna say hi to you and they

57:14

got on the phone and they're like we're so

57:16

excited and nervous or we can't wait to meet

57:18

you and then I just felt like I'm going.

57:20

To college again if this is my girls

57:22

as a dorm for I got there we

57:24

were all knew we were all scare welfare

57:26

of came that all of the new all

57:29

the people that me you ended up being

57:31

these huge sars they all and was a

57:33

girl it was Will Will Stereo Terrier Ali

57:35

San an Oc risk. A Tan: Darrell

57:38

Hammond. Well I'm it's just that

57:40

whole era of you know and I'll

57:42

rate on. Came a little bit later

57:44

but and then name is Tina came

57:46

to years later. Amy came later and

57:48

it was just for years and years

57:50

and years to score is amazing. You

57:53

know, incredible time or the other writers

57:55

were our guys. Yeah it was a

57:57

Harvard got ya Robert Carlock like a

57:59

good at. Mckay they all came when

58:01

I came know those guys and they

58:03

were all so brilliant and funny and

58:05

and week sign of salt like with

58:08

the show had gotten so shit on

58:10

Now that we're like with this. Do.

58:12

It like we didn't really know what we were doing

58:14

and we were legless. Come up with stuff that. Is

58:17

funny. To us and we started and it

58:19

was a very perfect era for me because

58:21

I loved writing. Characters in there was

58:23

an era that characters were kangaroo Do

58:26

Debbie Downer, Debbie Downer, Bobby and Marty

58:28

The Music Theater is there and the

58:30

cheerleaders? yes I did Tony Bennett. So

58:33

with Bet Baldwin and I'm just did

58:35

a lot of those like Appalachian Emergency

58:37

Room where it's just a parade of

58:40

insane and characters you know, Chris Parnell

58:42

always was the hillbilly and emergency room

58:44

that came in with submit as but

58:47

you know he'd be like well, hours

58:49

of practice and know kung fu on

58:51

our. On a slippery tarp.

58:54

And I fell wink sinker down on

58:56

us. Ziggy statue. And

58:58

they'd be like room sex. Ed

59:01

I'm and I get a lot of the

59:03

commercial parody video a lot of those. so

59:05

by the time the team and Amy get

59:07

their your kind of established yeah. I was

59:09

doing a lot of those kind of hit

59:11

characters of that time the of when you

59:13

know at the time like there were some

59:15

people that kind of thought of those characters

59:17

as. You know it's a

59:20

fast enough fast food but that's very

59:22

popular. A were so thanks. But man

59:24

when you had those characters it was

59:26

the most fun ever because he knew

59:28

that they were going to order one

59:30

up. You know? enter the biggest Torture

59:32

was train every week to figure out

59:34

some new. Yeah, and it may or may is

59:36

it was competitive. There are a lot of people so

59:38

it may or may not go wealth. So to have

59:40

let me didn't load up like let's do it cheerleaders

59:43

with, you know. Robert. While we didn't do

59:45

when with Deniro, that would have been really

59:47

fun here. But you know to do. Those

59:49

because they all wanted to do those. It. Characters?

59:51

Do you mean the guesthouse? The Guesthouse

59:53

via via a bit like year I

59:56

hear things but nobody. I've never got

59:58

it really. you They've only talked to

1:00:00

one person that, not negative about

1:00:02

SNL, but she was heartbroken by it because

1:00:04

she got fired, Michaela walked in. Were you

1:00:06

there? Oh, God, it was so funny, yes

1:00:08

I was. And I just love her and

1:00:10

she's a brilliant. She found so many great

1:00:13

vehicles to show how brilliant she

1:00:15

is. Absolutely, but that was the

1:00:17

only heartbreak story. But I always

1:00:19

thought or somehow believed

1:00:21

that it was so competitive that

1:00:24

it was miserable for a lot of people. Yeah,

1:00:26

I think that place, it has to

1:00:28

do with number one, the era you're

1:00:30

in. Yeah. Who you, if

1:00:33

you had a real supportive friend

1:00:35

group because we would fail plenty

1:00:37

of times. Like I'd get stuff, where I

1:00:40

thought something was the funniest fucking thing I

1:00:42

have ever thought of in my life. And it would

1:00:44

literally get absolutely nothing. And

1:00:47

so I think I

1:00:49

started enjoying it there more once I

1:00:51

saw all these people that I put on

1:00:53

a pedestal of like, oh, their writing is

1:00:56

insanely good, that they would fail, they'd get

1:00:58

nothing that week. But

1:01:00

when you're starting, it's so hard to

1:01:02

break into it. Because you

1:01:04

might have things that to be, you

1:01:06

were funny that you used to do,

1:01:08

that you were the star on stage

1:01:10

live at an improv theater. And

1:01:13

you'd bring it there and it was just not

1:01:15

something that Lauren liked. It was not

1:01:17

something that the rest of the writers liked. And you'd

1:01:19

try it and try it and you'd be like, you'd

1:01:21

have to say to people like, I know that's where

1:01:23

you think you're funniest, but you gotta

1:01:25

shake it up because that's not getting

1:01:27

put in. And you're gonna end up

1:01:30

getting fired. I mean, we wouldn't say that in

1:01:32

words. I'd always try to tell people, try

1:01:35

to do something different. Because

1:01:37

I could see they were so attached to that

1:01:39

move. And if it wasn't

1:01:42

hitting, you gotta just, it's like a

1:01:44

stand up, if they're doing their stand up and they keep

1:01:46

doing that joke, that's not getting it. It's like, they

1:01:48

made that joke in there, but they love

1:01:50

that joke. Yeah, yeah. Well, but it seems

1:01:53

like also that cast was fairly, there

1:01:56

was, it was eclectic and it wasn't,

1:01:58

it didn't seem like there was, massive

1:02:00

egos. No, and we

1:02:02

all came in like as nobodies. I mean really,

1:02:04

truly, everyone at that time. That was probably helpful.

1:02:06

That was so fantastic. And I think many

1:02:09

times, many eras of seeing new people come

1:02:11

in there and people leave, I would

1:02:13

always look and go, I wouldn't have survived this

1:02:16

one. I wouldn't have survived this era if I

1:02:18

came. I wouldn't have survived. Because sometimes there's

1:02:20

two new writers and one new cast member.

1:02:23

I couldn't be a new cast member, just one

1:02:25

person. Like that is brutal. And

1:02:28

some people do it and they break through.

1:02:30

But when you all come together and you

1:02:32

can be in sketches together and we did

1:02:34

a lot of ensemble things, it

1:02:37

was so like, we're happy for

1:02:39

each other. Like yes, and it was smaller. Now

1:02:41

it's so big. It's really competitive. Oh, there's so

1:02:43

many people there now. I know, like when they

1:02:45

run the list of people on the show, I'm

1:02:48

like, oh my God. It's past the show, the

1:02:50

opening. Yeah. But were

1:02:53

you ever offered to be a cast member? No,

1:02:57

it was really clear when you came in

1:02:59

there as a writer that was an actor,

1:03:01

it was really clear that they were like,

1:03:04

you gotta take that hat off while you're

1:03:06

here because this isn't, we

1:03:09

didn't bring you here as a vehicle to put you

1:03:11

in the cast. Right. And they

1:03:14

had to say that to people because you get

1:03:16

there and you could get your little all about

1:03:18

Eve head going. You're like, perhaps.

1:03:22

I'll have a tiny part in this

1:03:24

and get an applause break. And

1:03:27

then next week, you know, and you could, I was not that person.

1:03:29

I was the codependent, the taker. I was not

1:03:31

gonna be the one that ever took a job

1:03:33

from anyone. But I really put

1:03:36

it away. And it took years for me to allow

1:03:38

myself to take up space as an actor. Like it

1:03:41

was uncomfortable. Like I'd be on 30 Rock or I'd

1:03:43

be on Parks and Rocks. And it was very

1:03:45

hard for me to just be an actor

1:03:48

and be okay with like that attention because I

1:03:50

felt like it was bad. I

1:03:52

was being, doing something bad. Really? Yeah. Well,

1:03:54

it's interesting because there are all these women,

1:03:57

you know, like Amy and Tina and Maya,

1:03:59

they all. speak so

1:04:01

highly of you as being

1:04:04

this sort of inspiration and

1:04:06

this person that was sort of a rock for

1:04:08

them. And did

1:04:10

they seek you out? How did that relationship start to

1:04:13

go? Well, as they got famous. Was

1:04:15

Kristin there when you were there? Kristin was there, I wrote a

1:04:17

lot with her. She's amazing. Adore

1:04:19

her. I

1:04:23

watched my friends get successful

1:04:26

at the show, then they got successful

1:04:28

outside the show. Then they got their

1:04:30

own shows. And then occasionally they'd say,

1:04:33

do you wanna be Pete Hornberger's wife

1:04:36

and have really fucked up things happen to

1:04:39

you? Yes, I do, yes, that would be

1:04:41

great. And it would just be little here and

1:04:43

there. So they're the ones that eased you back into

1:04:45

acting. Well, they would hire me for stuff. Because

1:04:47

I knew them and I would

1:04:49

very occasionally, I mean very occasionally

1:04:51

audition for something more. Like I wrote the

1:04:54

movie Sisters and I put myself in one little scene

1:04:56

of it. But I always had shame.

1:04:58

I always felt like I was doing something. Really?

1:05:01

Very probably Catholic residual. Like don't

1:05:04

be all high and mighty and try to do

1:05:06

the other thing and try to take

1:05:08

that away from that. Like I always felt in some way

1:05:10

that I was taking it away from

1:05:12

someone else. That's kinda nuts, yeah. It

1:05:15

is. Because you're so funny. Maybe you

1:05:17

didn't realize you're worse. But

1:05:19

I think at that show, like

1:05:21

there were occasionally writers that did

1:05:23

get a little aggressive about trying to be

1:05:25

the funny one. And I

1:05:27

was definitely a ham behind the

1:05:29

scenes with people and we'd all be

1:05:31

very much performative. I mean like wigs

1:05:34

and doing characters and singing and everything. But

1:05:36

when it came down to work, it was like

1:05:38

that is not mine. That's not mine. Who

1:05:40

was update when you got there? I can't remember. It

1:05:42

was Colin. It was Norm Macdonald

1:05:44

first. And then Colin that neck. And Colin

1:05:46

was the writer there when I came. He

1:05:49

came the year I came. And then he

1:05:51

became update that next year. So he made

1:05:53

the jump. He made the jump. And

1:05:55

you know, Tina made the jump. And

1:05:58

I certainly saw it happen. But I... I knew that

1:06:01

I knew that place and I knew that I

1:06:03

didn't have the ability in my

1:06:05

soul to push myself in a

1:06:07

way that like, I had seen other people kind

1:06:10

of try it a little bit and like get

1:06:12

on update somehow or something. I'm not talking about

1:06:14

them because they did it the most perfect way.

1:06:16

Sure, no, but like how would you, what was the

1:06:19

process of that? How did that work and what do

1:06:21

you want it to? There was no process. It was

1:06:23

a very weird thing that people

1:06:25

didn't look highly upon

1:06:28

unless you did it in the right way.

1:06:30

Like for example, my best

1:06:32

friend is James Anderson. One of the funniest,

1:06:35

ungodly funniest, he wrote almost everything

1:06:37

Kristen Wiig ever did. What Keenan

1:06:39

did, Fred Armisen, written so many

1:06:41

classic things at that show. And

1:06:44

he and I were roommates in

1:06:46

college and he's gay, Kentucky, like

1:06:48

we just were so not of the world of

1:06:50

us now. Did you bring him in? He was my

1:06:53

best friend. He was a theater guy, like

1:06:55

a chorus guy in musical

1:06:57

theater. He graduated with me

1:06:59

at UT. He came to New

1:07:01

York. I got SNL and then he would be

1:07:03

at the show all the time and everyone would

1:07:05

go, why? He

1:07:08

is one of the funniest human beings on earth. They were

1:07:10

like, why isn't this motherfucker

1:07:12

on our show? I mean writing on our show.

1:07:14

Why isn't he writing? And I

1:07:16

knew that the way that place

1:07:18

was is they have to fall

1:07:20

in love with the person. You

1:07:22

can't say, Lauren, I have this

1:07:24

friend. It is so good. Because

1:07:27

the eyes go dead. They have

1:07:29

to somehow get exposed to them and go,

1:07:31

who is that person? I'm excited about it.

1:07:34

So we did it in a way that was very

1:07:36

masterfully, ended up working there 20 years as a big

1:07:39

hit writer. But you

1:07:41

had to enter in a way

1:07:43

that didn't feel that thirsty, like

1:07:46

see my friend and like them and hire them because

1:07:48

you know me and like me. It doesn't work

1:07:50

that way at all. That's the

1:07:52

politics. It's the politics. And also just

1:07:55

there's something that is, I think

1:07:57

it's changed now because everyone does

1:07:59

multi-hyphen. things. They write, they're

1:08:01

in the thing they wrote. When

1:08:03

I was growing up there early

1:08:06

years, that never happened. In

1:08:08

show business even, it wasn't like stand-ups would

1:08:10

do it in sitcoms, obviously

1:08:12

in Seinfeld era, but like a

1:08:15

Roseanne. But there wasn't like... Just

1:08:17

for a little while. You deplete your material

1:08:19

pretty quickly. Yeah, and it was not a

1:08:21

looked-upon thing of like you you're a writer.

1:08:23

And then, so I

1:08:26

used to, even when I wrote on movies and things

1:08:28

when I was younger, I'd be like, oh I'd love

1:08:30

to play that. But I could never make myself because

1:08:32

I was so afraid they were just gonna be like,

1:08:35

I just had no balls. I couldn't advocate

1:08:38

for myself. So after 20 years,

1:08:40

how did it end there? Well,

1:08:43

I became too much of the mama. And

1:08:45

I just remember this new era of people

1:08:47

coming in that were way younger than me.

1:08:49

I just didn't have it in me to care about

1:08:51

making them stars. And they were wonderful people.

1:08:53

But I was like, I am

1:08:56

so fucking exhausted from doing

1:08:58

this show. Most

1:09:00

of my friends have left. I had a

1:09:02

couple friends. I mean, I made friends with

1:09:04

all the younger people. I felt old. I

1:09:06

was like Nana Essenall, you know. And I

1:09:09

just didn't feel like it was the

1:09:11

same tone right then when I left

1:09:14

of my kind of comedy stuff. I

1:09:16

just felt like a lot

1:09:18

of it. I wasn't getting things on

1:09:20

as much. And then just being expected

1:09:23

kind of unspoken that I was this

1:09:25

nurturer, I was like that ends now

1:09:27

because I can't do it anymore. I can't do it. And

1:09:30

I left and you know, I had worked

1:09:32

on the set of bridesmaids pitching jokes. And I

1:09:34

had never met Judd, but I was with Kristin

1:09:36

and on the set of bridesmaids. So I pitched

1:09:38

tons of jokes for a couple weeks on the

1:09:41

set. And they used a lot of stuff.

1:09:43

And Judd was like, what are

1:09:45

you doing next? Like what are you doing? And

1:09:47

so we started this working relationship that was great

1:09:49

for quite a few years. And he, you know,

1:09:51

I learned a lot from him about movie sets

1:09:53

and about writing movies and all that. What

1:09:56

was in what capacity? I did that. Yeah,

1:09:58

I did that. And I worked. on This

1:10:00

Is 40 and I did a

1:10:02

lot with him with his stuff.

1:10:05

On set pitching? On set pitching. Do you

1:10:07

have credit on that? I'm

1:10:09

executive producer on This Is 40. Okay.

1:10:12

But I also did a lot of rewrites on

1:10:14

other people's movies for years and years. So

1:10:17

I did some official and some

1:10:19

of the rewriting where you get paid a

1:10:21

chunk and you don't get credit because you'd have

1:10:23

to prove that you wrote more than half or

1:10:25

whatever. So I loved it. I loved that stealthy,

1:10:28

they give me some cash and

1:10:30

then I would make something funnier. Where there were movies that you

1:10:32

were given where you're like, wow, this really isn't funny. Oh,

1:10:35

every single one practically. I mean, that's

1:10:38

when I really learned the lesson. That

1:10:41

if you have one thing that made a

1:10:43

studio money or one thing that, and this

1:10:45

is completely not about Judd Smith,

1:10:48

but I would start doing other writing where I didn't

1:10:50

really know the writers but I kinda knew of

1:10:52

them. I would get a movie

1:10:54

that I knew the person had one other thing

1:10:56

that was successful a while ago.

1:10:59

And they would have a movie that I knew for a

1:11:01

fact. They got like a million books to

1:11:04

write and it was so phoned in and

1:11:06

so bad. And they would be like, can

1:11:09

you just maybe make this both

1:11:11

funny and cohesive and make the story

1:11:13

make sense? And I

1:11:15

would do it, but I'd sit there

1:11:17

going like, I'm making like way

1:11:20

less than what they made to write it.

1:11:22

And it made me really realize that like

1:11:25

some people do coast like

1:11:27

they get that successful trust

1:11:29

with people and the studios just throw money at

1:11:32

them of like, bring me your

1:11:34

next thing. Then they pay somebody else much less to

1:11:36

make it the funny thing. How do you not get

1:11:38

filled with resentment? You do, but then the more

1:11:41

you do the rewriting, you get paid more. So

1:11:43

you push, I had great agents

1:11:46

and great lawyer that just as I did

1:11:48

it, I slowly over time, built and

1:11:50

built and built and built. Then when I did

1:11:52

do a rewrite, it was a considerable amount of money. And

1:11:55

I feel like, oh, I can pay my bills for quite

1:11:57

a while with that. And I

1:11:59

haven't written other. Even sisters, I wrote

1:12:01

a couple smaller indie

1:12:03

movies that we never made, but

1:12:06

I'm writing a movie for Netflix now

1:12:09

with my wife, and that's

1:12:11

the first movie I've written, we just handed in

1:12:13

the first draft, but that's

1:12:15

the first movie, big, kind of

1:12:17

fun comedy I've written in years and years.

1:12:20

And are you in it? I

1:12:22

have a little teeny possible part in

1:12:24

it, but we just handed in the

1:12:27

first draft. It's the one with Kim

1:12:29

Kardashian is involved in it. It's four

1:12:31

comedy ladies, Kim Kardashian. And

1:12:34

it is just, it's,

1:12:36

She's just playing herself? She's playing a woman

1:12:38

that looks like her, but

1:12:41

she's not, she is playing, like her

1:12:43

moves are close to herself. Okay, yeah.

1:12:45

It's called The Fifth Wheel, and

1:12:48

it's a kind of commentary

1:12:50

on the hot girl and like

1:12:52

how most women would not wanna

1:12:55

go on a trip with her. Yeah,

1:12:57

yeah. Not her, but a girl that looks

1:12:59

like her. So most of the acting started

1:13:02

to unfold because these people that you kind

1:13:04

of brought up, brought you in.

1:13:06

Yeah, brought me in. And then I

1:13:08

got to know more, and then I got

1:13:10

more confident where I would do, like that

1:13:13

documentary now is a big thing that really

1:13:16

got a lot of coverage in

1:13:18

terms of like comedy people, like people that

1:13:20

are theater people, a lot of people watched

1:13:22

it. So a lot of people would text

1:13:25

me or be like, oh my God, and that was the first big,

1:13:28

juicy kind of acting thing. And then I did

1:13:30

In A Wine Country, which was like a big

1:13:33

part in it. And that was the first movie

1:13:35

I did where I wasn't just that one

1:13:37

little funny thing that came in. I was like

1:13:39

throughout the movie and I had sad parts and

1:13:41

I had like sweet parts and

1:13:43

I could act again. And I'm more

1:13:45

nervous doing one tiny scene than I

1:13:47

am doing an entire big part.

1:13:49

I could see that, because you can kind of ease

1:13:52

into it and live it. You

1:13:54

get comfortable and you're rolling on it. Coming

1:13:57

out and saying one joke as opposed to like going

1:13:59

and doing it. set for an hour and

1:14:01

talking to people and shooting shit. Well

1:14:03

it's great that you've now like you set

1:14:06

out to be an actor and now you've

1:14:08

come to it. I've allowed myself to

1:14:10

do it now. I gave myself permission

1:14:12

finally at 60. It

1:14:15

happened about five years ago where I was like you

1:14:17

know what? Nobody fucking cares. Everyone's

1:14:19

happy for you. Everyone is

1:14:21

happy in your life that you

1:14:24

worked with for years and gave

1:14:26

them writing and they performed and

1:14:28

became successful people. And I

1:14:30

co-wrote a lot so they were brilliant too.

1:14:33

They were great writers. But like none of them

1:14:35

are going that bitch is going to

1:14:37

take this part that I am not even going

1:14:39

to be asked to do because she is a

1:14:41

character. Like I'm a matron. I was born at

1:14:44

50. I am

1:14:46

definitely I played Mother Superior in eighth

1:14:48

grade with braces. Well that voice you

1:14:50

know that's in your head. It's just

1:14:52

in my head that old broad always.

1:14:55

That's telling you you think you can't do it.

1:14:57

And now my hair is rolled yeah. I

1:15:00

was always kind of quietly confident about my acting

1:15:02

but I didn't want to I just didn't want

1:15:07

to do it. I think it was just from

1:15:09

SNL of like put that put that

1:15:11

away. If you're a writer you're a writer you can't

1:15:13

be doing the other because you're taking

1:15:15

that job from someone else. Do you do any

1:15:17

writing now other than the stuff you want to

1:15:19

do like screenplays and stuff? Yes I do. Award

1:15:22

shows? I mean we've been doing the show for

1:15:25

three years so I've had wonderful times where I

1:15:27

was like I actually can pay my bills with

1:15:30

the show as an actor and I don't write on

1:15:32

the show at all. I did AP

1:15:34

bio that was another big show that I

1:15:36

mean in terms of parts that I did and

1:15:38

I wrote one episode of that but I pretty

1:15:41

much stay when I'm acting I like

1:15:43

to stay away from the writing. But what was it like

1:15:45

doing those award shows? Oh those

1:15:47

are hard. But the nice thing

1:15:49

about those is they don't like they

1:15:52

don't bring out the writer directly after

1:15:54

that joke died. Yeah. You

1:15:57

wrote the one thing what did Tina and Amy do too? Golden

1:16:00

Globes? Golden Globes, I would help. But

1:16:02

you know, those are always so communally written. It's

1:16:04

like, hey, can you throw, can you send me,

1:16:08

I mean, they'd all throw us some cash, but it's like, can

1:16:10

you send me 20 jokes

1:16:12

about this? And then you just sit

1:16:14

and I always love just shit and

1:16:16

out jokes. I was like, always that at

1:16:19

SNL. Yeah. Is like, give me

1:16:21

something funny for the end of this. Give me

1:16:23

a funny thing, a turn here. I was like

1:16:25

triage. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was

1:16:28

that emergency thing. So

1:16:31

that muscle is good for me because when

1:16:33

I am acting now, even, if I do

1:16:35

think of a little tweak of something, but

1:16:38

this show is Meredith, Gardino, and Tina, and

1:16:40

all them, Robert Carla, it's like, the scripts

1:16:42

are so funny by the time you get

1:16:45

it. Girls five eva. Yeah, it's

1:16:47

such a funny premise and you're all

1:16:49

so funny in it. And

1:16:52

it does feel like there's a clip to the writing

1:16:54

that's very solid. So many jokes. You have to put

1:16:56

it on closed caption to catch them all. But yeah,

1:16:58

but they're not one-liners, they're

1:17:01

not sitcom jokes. They're all very character-driven and

1:17:03

just very- Yeah, they're character-driven. And

1:17:05

also that we're allowed to have

1:17:07

these sort of moments

1:17:09

in it that are little heartbreaker

1:17:11

moments. I love the heartbreaking,

1:17:14

I did the Agnes of God, as I said,

1:17:16

and I loved that being allowed

1:17:18

to just in a moment feel really sad

1:17:21

on camera is really fun. Yeah,

1:17:24

well, I mean, and it's

1:17:26

all appropriate because they're all women

1:17:29

who have had this arc. Yeah.

1:17:32

And now they're- They had a one-hit wonder and

1:17:34

they knew that life in the 90s

1:17:36

of being a girl group and being

1:17:38

like the Spice Girls light. And

1:17:41

then they just went away. My

1:17:43

character immediately became a dentist. I'm

1:17:46

the lesbian dentist that got married and was

1:17:48

the first gay person to get divorced in the

1:17:51

state of New York. So I just,

1:17:53

you know- And Busy is sort of like a

1:17:55

married woman. Busy was married

1:17:58

for years with the gay. gayest

1:18:01

man on earth who was also in the

1:18:03

boy group. So they got put together in

1:18:05

the 90s as like the little couple and

1:18:08

then they finally get divorced in it. And

1:18:10

then Renee is like,

1:18:12

you know, went

1:18:15

off to try to be a solo

1:18:17

artist and then her thing, she did

1:18:19

cribs and all that shit. And then

1:18:22

she just, her career, all of

1:18:24

our careers evaporated very bad. And that was

1:18:26

the Italian one? And then

1:18:28

Dawn is Araborellis and she just

1:18:31

ended up taking over her dad's

1:18:33

Italian restaurant. Right, with her brother?

1:18:35

With her brother. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:18:38

And so it's just like,

1:18:40

and then they have their one

1:18:42

hit wonder song sampled

1:18:44

by a rapper. Right, yeah, yeah. And then that

1:18:46

rapper goes on Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon and

1:18:48

they're like, why don't you bring on these ladies?

1:18:50

And then we come on and we're like, holy

1:18:53

shit. There's a line that I have in the

1:18:55

pilot where I say, they come

1:18:57

off after we've performed. And I'm like, I don't

1:18:59

know what this feeling is. It's

1:19:02

like either a mini stroke, it's a,

1:19:04

I know what it is. Kindergarten,

1:19:07

Kerry O'Neill bred a fat kitten. It's

1:19:10

joy. And it's just like that

1:19:12

feeling of like, oh, I haven't felt

1:19:14

this in 20 years. Yeah,

1:19:17

it's all very sweet and very funny and sad

1:19:19

in a way. It is, it is. You gotta

1:19:21

have a sadness in there. It is. Yeah.

1:19:24

And you've done three seasons? Three seasons, but

1:19:26

this season we did for Netflix. We moved

1:19:28

to Netflix. The third season. The third season. So

1:19:31

now it just came out and

1:19:33

we finished it right before the strike and then

1:19:35

they had to wait, obviously, to edit and all

1:19:37

that. And so now we have this fresh new

1:19:39

season. Can that teach? With two other, no, it's

1:19:41

eight, eight and six. Oh, wow. So

1:19:43

it's a really good binge. Yeah. Just,

1:19:46

and also just the music in it is

1:19:48

so funny, but also there's like some really

1:19:50

great songs we've put out like our albums

1:19:52

of the songs. Yes. So

1:19:54

many fucking funny songs that they've written. And

1:19:57

then Sara Bareilles writes like one or two.

1:20:00

to each season that are the

1:20:02

most cerebroleth, heart-breaking, good, like love something like that.

1:20:04

Yeah, yeah. Ugh, they kill ya. They have to

1:20:07

like, go. But it's so weird because this happens

1:20:09

to me a lot though, so it's not specific.

1:20:11

Like, I didn't know anything about it. No,

1:20:14

well, Peacock, when we first started with

1:20:16

them, they were just starting,

1:20:18

kind of. Right, right, yeah. So they

1:20:20

hadn't found their viewers, especially for an

1:20:23

original comedy. That's the great, the streaming

1:20:25

part of NBC. NBC, yeah, Peacock. And

1:20:28

it just really couldn't find comedy audiences

1:20:30

there because they didn't, they were new.

1:20:32

They didn't, they didn't really, they all

1:20:35

loved the show. They were really supportive.

1:20:37

But when it, when we knew, we kind

1:20:39

of found out at the same time that

1:20:41

it wasn't gonna be on third season, at

1:20:44

the same time that it was gonna go

1:20:46

to Netflix. So we had kind of not

1:20:48

the most horrible thing of like the call,

1:20:50

and then you go for a month

1:20:53

walking around, you know, and drinking and eating,

1:20:55

you know, my life is over. We didn't

1:20:57

have that. We had like, oh,

1:20:59

we're gonna get, we're gonna figure it out at

1:21:01

Netflix. And already,

1:21:03

like our premiere was last week in New York

1:21:05

and they had us perform at

1:21:08

the beginning of the premiere. Usually premieres are pretty

1:21:10

dry. You go in and take a couple pictures

1:21:12

in front of the poster and then you all

1:21:14

sit and watch it. Or you leave. Or you

1:21:16

leave, you leave it halfway through and you're like,

1:21:19

oh, this is a stinker. And

1:21:21

they had a giant stage

1:21:23

in front of the Paris Theater by the Plaza.

1:21:26

And they had a big piano and we did

1:21:28

like a medley of our songs. And

1:21:30

it was so fun and so funny

1:21:32

and wonderful. And then we just went

1:21:34

in and saw some episodes with the

1:21:36

audience. They were great. And we just

1:21:38

had this like very good hopeful feeling.

1:21:41

But now we're kind of like having

1:21:43

a first great date with Netflix. And

1:21:45

now we're like, oh, yeah, are

1:21:47

they gonna wanna fuck us again? Like, we're all

1:21:49

very like, we can't say it out loud.

1:21:51

We're just gonna pretend like we're not waiting

1:21:54

for their texts. Yeah, well, I

1:21:56

mean, they'll give you a few. Well,

1:21:58

I sure hope. Yeah, because it's it's so

1:22:01

funny and it's just so amazing to me There is

1:22:03

so much good stuff out there that just gets lost

1:22:05

because no one knows where to see any things anymore

1:22:08

It's very difficult Netflix just has

1:22:10

an audience that is so built in

1:22:12

and it's net international Yeah, so like

1:22:14

I always loved finding british shows like

1:22:16

funny as shit british Show your life

1:22:19

or australian shows you'd be like, oh my god. Have

1:22:21

you seen the show and it would be on pbs

1:22:23

or wherever it was and

1:22:25

comedy wise and i'm so excited that

1:22:27

like England because I have some

1:22:29

friends in england that are comedy people and they're like,

1:22:31

oh my god We love this and I

1:22:33

love that there's this exchange across, you

1:22:36

know, yeah That

1:22:38

people will enjoy it. So all they're all up

1:22:40

now all the all of them are up Yeah,

1:22:43

they came they came up last week So

1:22:45

the whole the whole three seasons are up

1:22:48

and then there's a music there's an album

1:22:50

of all our music that for this last

1:22:52

season That's on kind of like

1:22:54

I don't know if I think it's spotify

1:22:56

But you can just do girls five evidence

1:22:58

all the music about like a soundtrack. Yeah

1:23:00

of the season But there's so many so

1:23:02

now you get this in wonder if anyone's

1:23:04

watching it. Oh my god And no one

1:23:06

will tell you I remember doing like when

1:23:08

I do movies that were theatrical police how

1:23:11

you'd sit and do that box office Mojo,

1:23:13

yeah, and you'd just be shitting yourself like

1:23:15

waiting for the numbers Yeah, come out or

1:23:17

or in a tv show when you do

1:23:19

series and you just be like holding your

1:23:21

breath But then streamers it all ended you

1:23:23

couldn't find out anything. Yeah, no one knows

1:23:25

anything for years So you get to have

1:23:27

that anxious feeling like no resolution. Oh hard

1:23:30

Yeah, I mean since the strike I think there are new

1:23:32

roles where they have to tell the creators certain

1:23:34

things right right because people would be

1:23:37

Not told and then you're like wouldn't you

1:23:39

like to be want us to know so

1:23:41

we can maybe step our shed up or

1:23:43

like make it Yeah, maybe

1:23:45

something bigger. Yeah, just it make it

1:23:47

less this make it less that it's interesting Some things so

1:23:50

I could get the numbers that would have been a

1:23:52

hit show. Yes five years

1:23:54

ago And they're not enough for the fucking

1:23:56

algorithm. Well, I mean seinfeld, you

1:23:58

know famously had terrible

1:24:01

reviews and everything that first season. And then

1:24:03

NBC exec was like, no, I love it.

1:24:07

Let's give it more time. And that was back

1:24:09

when you could just really let it. And Lauren's

1:24:11

always been like that with people. He would let

1:24:14

someone just simmer for a long time. And then

1:24:16

one year you see him break and you go,

1:24:18

you know what, he was correct. He was right.

1:24:20

He was correct. And also, I think

1:24:22

the culture had to adjust to Seinfeld. Oddly, I

1:24:24

didn't watch Seinfeld, but I've gotta do an event

1:24:26

with Larry David. So I'm literally watching. You're

1:24:29

binging it? I'm watching the episodes

1:24:31

that everybody knows. For

1:24:33

the first time now. That's

1:24:35

how I am with friends. I never watch friends.

1:24:37

Me neither. Never. But

1:24:39

I know them all. And I know bits

1:24:41

and pieces. Yeah, you know the bits.

1:24:43

You know the clips. The clips. There's

1:24:46

so many shows like that. I mean, that's how I am,

1:24:48

sadly, now with... Because I've

1:24:50

just been... I've been trying to do

1:24:52

too much after the strike, especially during the strike.

1:24:54

I was doing so much like trying to load

1:24:57

things up and write things in that I

1:24:59

just don't watch that much

1:25:01

television. I don't either. And people are always

1:25:04

like, what are you watching? It's like when

1:25:06

someone goes, what are you reading right now?

1:25:08

And I'm like, the pamphlet to my new

1:25:10

air conditioning unit on my toilet when

1:25:12

I'm sitting there. That's what I'm reading. I

1:25:14

know, it's not part of my life. No.

1:25:18

If you work in show business, you're like, I

1:25:20

do comedy, but I just never... I mean,

1:25:22

there's been things I've watched. Yes. Sopranos.

1:25:24

Breaking Bad, The Wire. Like the E-bag I loved.

1:25:26

I totally... Yeah, I believe that was great. I

1:25:29

devoured that and I was like, oh, this is

1:25:31

so good. But I also have a little bit of

1:25:33

me if somebody says, oh my God,

1:25:35

it's the best thing that I've ever... Movie-wise, I don't

1:25:37

wanna go see it. Yeah, yeah. Because I'm so

1:25:39

afraid I'm gonna be disappointed. Yeah, I hate when

1:25:41

people come off stage before me and go, they're

1:25:43

great. I'm like, don't fucking... Don't...

1:25:46

No, I'm gonna fuck it up. Oh, don't

1:25:49

curse it. I don't even want them to like me.

1:25:51

Say that I'm a piece of shit and I will

1:25:53

come out and prove you wrong. Exactly. Great

1:25:55

talking to you. It's so great talking to you. Thanks for

1:25:57

doing it. I think you're such a funny, brilliant man. That's

1:25:59

nice. And I feel that way

1:26:01

about you as well. Well, thank you. I

1:26:03

am masculine producer. I keep saying

1:26:06

producing I'm not producing any masculine anything,

1:26:08

but I am a little presenting

1:26:10

but I still wear lipstick. Okay ball balls

1:26:18

Harla Pell great All

1:26:21

three seasons of girls 5eva are streaming on Netflix

1:26:23

hang out for a minute folks You So

1:26:30

listen Thursday's guest is someone I crossed paths

1:26:32

with back in the 90s as part of

1:26:34

the alternative comedy scene Tammy Faye Starlight if

1:26:36

you're a full mare and subscriber and you

1:26:38

want to hear me talk about that time

1:26:41

Check out the bonus episode we did about

1:26:43

Luna lounge it began to sort of take

1:26:45

off But again, although it was

1:26:47

alternative comedy or whatever and there was a

1:26:49

slew of people you did have this weird

1:26:51

mixing of Lowery side

1:26:54

performance art characters were

1:26:57

a dented you what happened to that

1:26:59

woman? She was kind of a comic

1:27:01

to Shapiro was around Rick Shapiro Reverend

1:27:03

Jen You

1:27:05

know Michael Portnoy was doing whatever the fuck

1:27:07

he was doing Who people know is the

1:27:09

guy who got on stage with Bob Dylan

1:27:11

at the Grammys and had soy bomb written

1:27:13

on his chest Which was by far the

1:27:15

least interesting thing he did on stage one

1:27:17

time he got on stage and took a

1:27:19

bottle of his Prozac out of his pocket

1:27:21

and Dumped them all over

1:27:23

the stage and then stuck his dick in

1:27:26

it Which

1:27:29

I thought was good that's available now for full

1:27:31

mare and subscribers just check your feed for the

1:27:33

bonus episode titled WTF

1:27:36

origins Luna lounge to sign up

1:27:38

for the full mare and go to the link in

1:27:40

the episode description or go to WTF

1:27:43

pod comm and click on

1:27:45

WTF plus and a

1:27:48

reminder Before we go this podcast is

1:27:50

hosted by a cast guitar

1:28:30

You You

1:29:30

You Boomer

1:30:57

lives. Mickey

1:30:59

and LaFonda cat angels everywhere.