0:00

This podcast contains spoilers for Niana Jones

0:02

and a Dial of Destiny, as well as

0:04

the first four films in the Indiana Jones

0:07

franchise. Hello,

0:25

my name is Jason Concepcion and I'm

0:28

Rosy Night, and welcome to Next Our Vision, the Crooked

0:30

Media podcast where we dive deep into your

0:32

favorite shows, movies, comics of pop culture.

0:35

In this episode, in the previously on we

0:37

are jumping into the jeep or

0:39

into the dinghy.

0:41

Or whichever your preferred. Indiana

0:43

Jones them travel Edane Fridge

0:45

the leadline.

0:46

Fridge a very smart idea, I must just say,

0:48

And we're going to look back on the Indiana Jones

0:50

franchise to lead into our air

0:52

lock where we'll be talking about Indiana Jones and

0:54

the Dial of Destiny and in nedout we

0:56

have a theory on secret Invasion

1:00

coming up.

1:01

Previously on.

1:04

Bump Bump, Bump, bump bomb bum.

1:13

Here we go, folks.

1:15

The legendary collaboration

1:18

between George Lucas and Steven

1:20

Spielberg which produced the Indiana

1:23

Jones franchise, which started with Raiders

1:25

of the Lost Ark nineteen eighty one, followed by Indiana

1:28

Jones and then Tumble nineteen eighty four technically

1:31

a prequel, we'll get into that in our recap, followed

1:33

by Indiana Jones, The Last Crusade nineteen

1:35

eighty nine filed by Indiana Jones,

1:37

and The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull two thousand and

1:39

eight followed this year

1:42

with a resounding Indiana

1:45

Jones in a dial of Destiny. But

1:47

let's start with Raiders of the Lost

1:49

arc Rosie. We opened in nineteen

1:52

thirty six, so we meet intrepid

1:55

archaeologist, tenured university professor,

1:58

adventurer and grave robber Indiana Owns

2:00

on a mission to recover a golden idol from an ancient

2:02

temple in the Jungles of Peru, a

2:05

place where he will return later

2:07

in this series. His aid de camp

2:09

double crosses him, setting up a theme of

2:12

the French ar route Rude,

2:14

and he's nearly crushed by a boulder, but he does

2:16

get out alive thanks to his

2:18

guile and his trusty bull whip. Unfortunately,

2:22

the idol is then stolen from his hands

2:24

by his rival in

2:26

the field of archaeology, doctor

2:29

Belloch in Indiana has to

2:31

flee for his life back at university,

2:33

where he teaches again he is a teacher, he's

2:36

and apparently fending off advances

2:39

from his students.

2:40

At all times.

2:43

We'll get back into this.

2:45

Yes, the US Army Intelligence

2:47

comes calling and they tell

2:49

doctor Jones that they have unscrambled

2:53

some communicats from a

2:55

guy named Adolf Hitler you may have heard of. And

2:57

it turns out Hitler is obsessed with ancient artifacts

3:00

and the Nazis are currently digging for something

3:02

in Egypt and nobody knows what's going

3:04

on. Jones is like, oh, I

3:06

think they found this

3:09

fabled legendary city where

3:12

the Hebrew Arc of the Covenant is maybe

3:14

kept in a place called the Well of Souls,

3:18

And the US Army Intelligence

3:20

guys are like, wow, I guess we came to the right guy to

3:23

tell us more. And it turns out the Nazis

3:26

are also looking for a guy who specialized

3:28

in the Arc of the Covenant and named Abner

3:31

Ravenwood, and Jones

3:33

also knows him. More to the point,

3:36

Jones knows Abner's daughter, Marian.

3:39

And when I say no, what

3:41

I mean is Jones

3:44

used to have sexual

3:47

relations with Marian when

3:50

in her words.

3:51

She was a child. And

3:53

you could do the math on how it's

3:57

a bad look for Santana

4:00

Indiana Jones. But it was nineteen

4:02

eighty one, and I guess, and things were different,

4:04

and I guess it was nineteen thirty six and his day,

4:07

Yeah, things were also different than anyway.

4:15

The Army is like, Okay, go

4:18

after Admiral Ravenwood. Jones knows

4:21

where he is. He thinks he's probably in

4:23

Nepal. He goes to Nepal. He finds

4:25

Mary in there. She's running a bar and

4:28

she is now a full blown alcoholic.

4:31

And honestly, the dark take hen

4:33

rewatch is like because she's

4:36

really mad at him, and that anger

4:38

like bubbles over quite easily,

4:42

and it's that kind of like infamous

4:44

snippet of dialogue where she says, like I was a

4:46

child, YadA, YadA, YadA.

4:48

He's like the dark read on.

4:49

It is like she is medicating

4:52

the trauma for her relationship

4:54

with full grown adult doctor Indiana

4:57

Jones.

4:57

By living in a bar and roll

5:00

in the pool and gang drunk every

5:02

single day, drinking people under the bar.

5:06

So but but luckily she has

5:08

probably the strongest liver of any

5:10

human being.

5:11

She's a powerful I love, very

5:13

very powerful.

5:16

And again a high functioning alcoholic.

5:18

It turns out Abner is dead. Uh,

5:20

but but what about his artifacts related

5:23

to Tannis, the city.

5:25

Where the arc probably is. Uh?

5:28

What about that stuff, namely a medallion? Is

5:30

that still around?

5:31

Marian's like, no, come back

5:33

tomorrow, maybe we'll talk about it. Unfortunately,

5:36

the Nazis are also in town, led by very

5:38

ominous Gestapo officer Tote,

5:41

and he is looking for the same stuff. Jones and

5:43

Marian just barely escape with him dallion, But unbeknownst

5:46

them, Tote has a partial image of the medallion burned

5:48

into his hand and had a high enough

5:50

resolution that it's actually useful. Next

5:52

stop Egypt, where we meet Indy's

5:54

friend and sometime fixer, Gimli. I

5:58

mean sorry, I mean Salah his crew, who

6:00

is has been hired by the Nazis to do

6:02

some digging, and Gimli says the Nazis really stupid,

6:04

except for this guy Beloach. And

6:07

then Indy's like, no, no, no,

6:09

you idiot, that's Belloc, which

6:12

like how did he I guess he saw his name

6:14

like on a call sheet, Like how does that work?

6:16

How do you get his name wrong?

6:17

I also, he say, I just

6:19

want to say, there are so many

6:22

Kenna six inch remake figures

6:24

of Belloc in every target.

6:26

So if you I'm always like, why is he that?

6:28

Who loves

6:29

who?

6:31

I mean, he does have a course like kind of like a

6:33

coat on, but like, I don't know, maybe

6:35

he found one of the toys and that's uh,

6:37

that's how he gets the name.

6:38

Now how did he get it right?

6:40

But it turns out the Nazis are appear

6:42

to be close to finding the Well of Souls. Little

6:45

does Indy know that he is

6:47

being spied on, but by who?

6:49

While he's well, it's the spy monkey.

6:52

A spy monkey's.

6:53

Working, I

6:56

believe, I'm so disappointed

6:59

in that.

7:00

No, the Nazis, it turns out, have

7:02

perhaps a team of spy monkeys, certainly at

7:04

least one, and they

7:07

set loose a team of assassins to kill Indy

7:09

in the streets of Cairo. But of course he escapes because

7:12

we're only like forty five minutes in the movie. Spy

7:14

Monkey helps the Nazis capture

7:17

Marian, and Indy,

7:19

thinking Marian is dead, honors her in

7:21

the way that she would like to be honored, which.

7:22

Means he starts binge drinking.

7:24

Since Belloc calls for him

7:27

and does some monologuing

7:29

basically says like, you're the good

7:31

version of me, but you know you're gonna

7:33

be me soon enough, and YadA, YadA, YadA,

7:36

and Indy is

7:38

eventually saved from being murdered

7:41

by Belloc and Bellock's assassins by a

7:43

gang of street kids. Spy

7:45

Monkey dies from poisoned dates,

7:48

which allow which allow Gimbili

7:50

to realize that the dates are poisoned bad

7:53

dates, and saves

7:55

Indy's life, and Indy never thanks

7:58

him, by the way, rude, I

8:00

think so. Indy sneaks

8:03

into the Nazi camp.

8:05

He finds the actual location of the Well of Souls

8:08

because he knows that the staff

8:10

that the nazis using is too long. He

8:12

discovers Marian, who's still alive, but

8:15

because the arc is really the pressing thing

8:17

right now, he leaves Marian.

8:19

He's like, why.

8:22

The fact that you're

8:24

not so, I'll

8:26

see you later, uh

8:29

that night and he braves

8:32

uh the Well of Souls, which is

8:34

filled with snakes and other dangers, and recover

8:37

he hates some of it, famously.

8:39

Does not like snakes.

8:41

Uh not a fan, and he recovers

8:43

the arc. Meanwhile, Belloc has grown

8:46

obsessed with Marion in a very short

8:48

amount of time, and he gets her

8:50

a dress that looks suspiciously like a wedding

8:53

dress and asks her to wear it. And

8:56

Marian meanwhile is plotting her escape and shows

8:58

she figures let's have a drinking, which

9:00

I'm really good at. She gets Belloc

9:02

really really drunk, and just as she's

9:05

about to grab a knife and either

9:07

stab him or just threaten him and escape,

9:11

uh, Gestapo officer Tote shows

9:13

up with the most kinky clothes

9:15

hangar of all fucking time.

9:23

He's already he was ready

9:25

for some shit.

9:27

And you know what, I want to stop here because we are

9:29

going to talk about dial of Destiny and the wonderful Mad's

9:32

Michelson, and I love Mad's Michelson

9:34

and everything. I will never

9:36

turn away the sight of

9:38

the wonderful Mad's Michelson on any

9:41

kind of screen I'm watching. But I will say

9:44

I do like one

9:46

of the things I like about Raiders is that

9:49

the most ominous Gestapo officer

9:52

is really just like a geek.

9:54

You know, he's just like not he's

9:56

not on scad

9:59

off because he is like secretly this psycho.

10:02

You know, you don't know what he's thinking. Like,

10:04

that's a scary character.

10:05

Also, like I will say one of

10:07

the most enjoyable things about these movies, which is,

10:10

as we will get into a very patchy and really

10:13

terribly racist, the further into them you get,

10:17

it is great to see just like Nazis

10:19

are just getting killed. Now earlier Indiana

10:21

Jones, other people didn't love

10:23

to see it. But when he's killing a Nazi or

10:26

somebody's beating up a Nazi or drinking a Nazi

10:28

to an Elle.

10:29

It's just that that's a feel good situation.

10:31

I feel like that's part of why these movies

10:33

have held such a long esteem, is like it's

10:36

very rare that you can watch a movie and feel

10:38

good about people being killed.

10:39

But Indiana Jones, You're like, come on, sorry,

10:42

you're a Nazi.

10:43

And Indiana famously has never, ever,

10:46

ever been a Nazi sympathizer, except when

10:48

he slept with full blown Nazi doctor.

10:50

Elis was a Nazi, just

10:52

saying okay

10:59

uh.

11:00

The next morning, Bellock intercepts Jones

11:02

and Gimli as they are removing the arc.

11:05

Once again, he is right there. He takes the

11:07

arc for Hitler. The Nazis locked

11:09

Jones in the well of souls along

11:11

with Marion, much to belloc chagrin.

11:14

But of course they escape because now we're only an hour

11:16

and fifteen into the movie. Jones

11:18

manages to steal the arc back from Bellock.

11:20

He loads it onto a shipboard for the States.

11:23

Jones and Mary and share a cabin, which

11:25

is we're right back into it, I guess, trying

11:28

to rekindle that old statutory magic.

11:30

And Indian is too is too banged

11:33

up to do anything, and

11:35

he falls asleep, and of course the Nazis

11:37

intercept the boat, they take back

11:40

the Arc.

11:40

They sees Marion.

11:41

Despite and this was record

11:44

scratch shit here for me, this is a movie for

11:46

PG movie for kids,

11:49

despite the fact that the ship's captain

11:51

is like, hey, leave the girl so

11:53

we can use her to offset the

11:56

costs of the trip.

11:58

Boo wow.

12:03

And again a movie that I enjoy.

12:05

I do enjoy Raiders, but this is this

12:08

is a PG movie for kids.

12:10

They use the pulp trappings

12:13

to do something else, lean into.

12:14

That pre co almost

12:17

like a pre code movie.

12:19

They're like, well, it's based on

12:21

stuff from a time when things were really racist

12:23

and misogynists, so let's just.

12:25

Go for it. Let's go for it.

12:27

Belloc is absolutely thrilled

12:29

to have his girl maryon back. Indy

12:32

sneaks onto the Nazi submarine rides

12:34

it back to the Nazi guns of Navarone

12:36

style bass. He ambushes Bellock

12:38

and the Nazis with an RPG. But

12:40

then Belloc is like, come on, this

12:43

is like a terrible climax to

12:45

the film. If you just blow us all up, don't

12:47

you want to see us open the thing?

12:49

And India is like, yes, I do that.

12:51

Evening Bellock in Tones of Hubrew

12:53

Prairie opens the arc and while camera's role

12:56

magic fire melts everyone

12:58

who is looking at the r and Jones

13:01

and Mary and survived by.

13:02

Not looking at it. Really smart by Indiana

13:04

Jones. Okay, so let's talk about

13:06

this.

13:07

So then like this is

13:09

one of the most in the

13:11

One thing I love about Raiders is like it is

13:13

like a really pulpy B movie style film, right

13:15

yeah, but it also is like an intrinsically

13:18

interesting cinematic

13:21

conversation star because you could

13:23

arguably say, and it has been said,

13:25

It's been said by me in articles, it's been said

13:27

in a now very famous Big Bang

13:30

theory cold open. Probably the only

13:32

time we will ever mention the Big Bang theory on this

13:34

show. But like Indiana Jones

13:36

does not really affect any

13:38

of the events.

13:39

In this film.

13:40

The end of the movie is God burning

13:42

everybody's eyes out because they tried

13:44

to touch the ark of the Covenant. That would have happened

13:47

whether or not Indiana Jones was involved, now

13:49

arguably changing the

13:52

stick maybe, but someone else might have worked

13:54

that out.

13:54

Like, he doesn't really play

13:57

much of a role.

13:59

In the actual actions of the movie. He

14:01

does not move it along in the traditional way of a

14:03

protagonist, and you could argue that the

14:05

movie is the same with or without him.

14:06

I just find that so interesting

14:09

and weird.

14:11

I think it's very very weird. And

14:14

also, I mean, you know, Spielberg

14:16

is just like in his bag because you don't

14:18

know, like no know

14:21

you that Indiana does nothing,

14:23

that.

14:24

H of the film does not do it.

14:25

He is not even the protagonist

14:28

in the way that we understand what a protagonist

14:30

is, because the Nazis

14:32

would have died anyway, like the Arguably

14:35

you could say he changed whether or not they'd

14:37

be able to open it, but I think you could argue

14:40

that somebody else may have been able to do that. It's so weird

14:42

but like you said, this is a movie that's all

14:44

about vibes because

14:46

you're just so you're in the it's

14:49

like, oh, you've picked up like a pulp novel and

14:51

you're just going with it and you wish it wasn't racist.

14:53

But oh look there's like a cool

14:56

you know, a boulder's gonna

14:58

knock him over, so he's running away from bolder.

15:00

By the way, I just want to say that moment is actually directly

15:02

stolen from a Scrooge McDuck comic.

15:05

If you can believe it directly, there's a good comic

15:08

book bit of knowledge for you.

15:10

But yeah, like you're just vibing on it. But it always

15:12

makes me laugh.

15:13

And in a recap when you start saying,

15:15

it's just like, okay, so Indiana Jones gets

15:17

there, doesn't do anything, they open it, everybody

15:19

dies, and then he just like puts in

15:22

a warehouse.

15:23

Well, I think again, I think Spielberg was

15:25

just you know, it's Spielberg

15:27

was on a truly the

15:29

midst of a legendary, iconic

15:32

cinematic run. And I just think the

15:34

way over the course of this

15:37

film they build up the arc of the coveinet,

15:39

build it up, build it up.

15:40

Build it up.

15:42

You can get away with the final

15:44

act of the movie being Hey, what

15:46

the fuck's inside this thing?

15:47

And watch us the original

15:49

police fiction suitcase. It's

15:52

like there's also who was in there.

15:54

It's also because there are essentially

15:57

no special effects in this

15:59

movie till this sequence, it

16:02

just kind of knocks you back, especially

16:04

the face melt, which remains inredibly

16:09

powerful.

16:09

I mean, we all still think about it at like all

16:12

times, Like that's one of the

16:14

first things that you think about when you

16:17

watch when you think about Indiana Jones. And

16:19

one of the most interesting things is that

16:21

actually was like so influential

16:23

that there's like this also very offensive,

16:26

I will just put that out. But like a B

16:28

movie called Street Trash that

16:31

was directed by J. Michael Murrow, and it's like

16:34

the whole movie is like that

16:36

effect.

16:37

It's basically that this booze.

16:39

Get this like booze gets infected

16:41

and anyone who drinks it melts and the

16:43

movie is called like a melt movie.

16:45

And it was kind of that Troma style thing.

16:46

But that literally is just replicating

16:49

the famous face melting sequence, which

16:51

I watched so many times as a kid and also like

16:53

absolutely devastated

16:56

me and terrified me as a kid.

16:57

Oh it's it's so scary, it's so good.

16:59

Actually, you know what I think, stevens Bilberg, you

17:01

make a great point, because the truth is, if you think

17:04

about the movies that he made his name with,

17:07

Jewel Jaws, you

17:09

know, those movies actually a lot of close

17:12

encounters.

17:12

Yeah closing.

17:13

I mean those movies were actually very unconventional,

17:16

Like Jaws. Obviously you had all the issues with the sharks,

17:18

so you barely see the shark, and then when you do see it

17:20

at the end, it's this huge impact moment and you

17:22

create that really weird under

17:25

half underwater, half above water

17:27

pov.

17:28

Of Close Encounteries is one of the craziest

17:30

slow burn movies of all time.

17:32

Nothing nothing

17:35

mountains.

17:36

Yeah, but in the in the in

17:39

contrast to like a movie really say,

17:41

almost nothing happens. The first

17:43

like hour of that movie is Karen both

17:46

whipping out eat just a bunch

17:48

of kids and like a weird puppet.

17:49

So actually, in that way, the idea

17:52

that he kind of.

17:52

Made a protagonist less movie

17:55

where the character who is the titular character

17:57

is not really the protagonist who drives on

17:59

the story at all, that actually makes

18:01

a lot of sense, because he was always doing

18:04

things in a kind of unusual

18:06

way.

18:07

He absolutely was X Ray

18:09

Vision will be back, and

18:19

We're back. Raiders of the Loss Ark was followed

18:22

by Temple of Doom. We

18:25

opened in nineteen thirty five, so this is a prequel.

18:28

And one of the most interesting things to

18:31

me on rewatch was just what a different

18:33

guy Indiana

18:35

was only one year earlier. Of course

18:38

in Raiders, it's got to get

18:40

it in a museum. This belongs in a museum.

18:42

We gotta get this in a museum. One year

18:44

earlier, he's just like out here flipping

18:49

artifacts for diamonds, like

18:51

just seemingly the museum thing had

18:53

slipped his mind at this point, Like he's just out here

18:56

looking for cash, like quick cash.

18:58

I'm like, I'm guessing that he was like and

19:00

to be doing it for some other

19:03

magnanimous reason, because he's always finding

19:06

something to do.

19:07

But really, I think they're essentially setting.

19:09

Him up as a bit more of like a rogue

19:11

who works on his own moral and ethical

19:15

because then we end up with the

19:17

main mcguffin of this, which wouldn't

19:19

really necessarily work with the museum argument.

19:22

Agreed, and

19:25

again this this Indiana Jones a

19:28

real hero, although roguish

19:30

in Raiders is not above

19:33

like taking a dinner fork and sticking

19:35

it into a bystander ribs and saying

19:37

like, I will stab this woman unless.

19:39

You give me what I need. He is

19:42

doing. This is one of the most bonkers cold

19:44

opens of all time.

19:45

And you can that's wonderful if you, if

19:47

you if they made movies like

19:49

this today that was still like this

19:52

and not like Donald's Destiny, they'd be like each

19:55

movie is gonna take from a different time

19:57

period and will showcase the

19:59

diff different influences of filmmakers

20:02

and choreographers. That is essentially what Spielbug

20:04

was doing, but without any of the pr like it's so

20:07

different from Raiders and just absolutely

20:10

bonkers.

20:11

This cold open actually might be my favorite thing

20:14

in the entire series. It is in a

20:16

movie that is is crazy

20:18

for its highs and lows.

20:20

It's very it's.

20:23

Filled with adventure and excitement, has maybe

20:25

the best personal relationships of

20:27

any of the movies, but also is like horrendously racist.

20:30

And this cold open is it

20:34

has mad cap action.

20:36

It is a wonderful homage to

20:38

the musical work of Busby

20:41

Berkeley with this kind of like wonderful

20:43

dance routine that opens the

20:47

full musical where we meet

20:49

showgirl Willie played by Kate Capshaw

20:53

later Steven Spielberg's wife. When

20:55

we say highs and lows, I think the character

20:58

of Willie is certainly one of the lows.

20:59

She just exists to be like streaming

21:05

fire.

21:07

You know, her costuming is fantastic,

21:10

and Keita is a wonderful actress who does

21:12

it with.

21:14

Give. I think they can give her

21:16

anything.

21:16

That classic thing of like, oh well,

21:19

it's set in the old days, so we can make

21:21

it as misogynistic because we presume.

21:23

But actually, I just.

21:24

Want to say I talk about this a lot when you actually

21:26

go back and watch an old noir movie. Actually

21:29

a lot of times, one there were women directing

21:31

them. Ida Lupino, The Hitchhiker watch It's unbelievable.

21:34

But two, a lot of times the female characters in

21:36

them were actually like super complex and

21:38

like weird and dark and

21:41

smart and clever and funny. And I

21:43

think this is almost where you get into

21:45

that parody versus homage

21:47

or whatever. They sort of think,

21:49

oh, well, it's a femme fatale. It's like a woman, she's

21:52

scared, she doesn't know what she's doing. That's how

21:54

it was back then, and it doesn't actually

21:56

really represent the era they

21:58

were making.

21:59

No, there's no there's no cool

22:02

ride. I don't even know what this would be.

22:04

She's like almost she's almost the

22:06

comedy relief,

22:08

but she's also the comical. They

22:10

don't give her a lot of like gags. It's

22:12

not in the usual way the jokes. She is at the butt

22:15

of the jokes by being the one who doesn't want to go

22:17

on the adventure, who doesn't want to be involved,

22:19

who hates Bob.

22:20

She is kind of the like Jones

22:22

is the straight man. And then they cut to her freaking

22:24

out about like the horribly racist feast

22:27

that they have, or the spiders.

22:29

Or like the monkey brains.

22:31

The monkey brains, or the food in

22:33

the village not being up to snuff, that kind of stuff,

22:36

and more about the highs.

22:38

Of course, this is the future film debut

22:40

of Kahi Kwan, who is wonderful

22:43

as as Indiana Jones's

22:45

assistant fixer, Young

22:48

short Round. The diamond deal

22:50

that Jones is working on goes sideways, and

22:53

so doctor Jones William

22:55

short Round have to escape via plane which eventually

22:58

crashes in the Himalayas and the company

23:00

survived by sledding down the mountain an

23:02

inflatable boat which they.

23:04

Dive out of the crash. Unbelievable.

23:06

And so for everyone mountain,

23:09

go down.

23:10

The mountain

23:12

inflatable dingy And

23:14

every single one of you watched this as

23:16

a kid and rewatched as an adult.

23:18

Ship Yeah that's

23:20

right. Fine, So remember this

23:22

when we get to a kingdom of the crystal

23:25

skull and the leadline refrigerator.

23:27

Okay, they eventually come to rest

23:29

near a village somewhere in northern India. Let's

23:33

stop here. So the Government of

23:35

India read this script and

23:37

said, this is like crendous

23:40

race.

23:40

It's it's offensive.

23:42

It paints Indian culture

23:45

in a inaccurate

23:48

and horrendous light, and

23:51

we'd like you to tweak the film, tweak

23:54

the script to make it, you know, more an.

23:56

Accurate depiction of Indian culture.

23:59

And the production one was like, no, let's

24:01

just shoot in Sri Lanka insteads So the film was shot

24:03

in Sri Lanka.

24:04

Just needs to say that is like the

24:07

least you can do, Like how

24:09

hard would it have been to just be like yeah, sure,

24:12

who who noticed this in your office?

24:14

Talk to well for instance, we don't

24:17

eat eyeball soup.

24:18

Yeah, or you know if we if

24:20

we do eat off all, we don't

24:23

eat it out of a monkey's head.

24:25

Every culture and culture

24:27

eats offul, thank you, but like

24:29

sausage anyone.

24:30

How how how little

24:33

they were asked to do, and yet

24:36

they said no. And if I'm not mistaken,

24:39

I believe that the little village that they built

24:41

in Sri Lanka for this is actually still there.

24:44

It was, at least when I was younger.

24:46

It was a It was a tourist destination

24:48

that people talked about quite a lot because

24:50

they just left it there, as is the want of

24:52

Hollywood production.

24:54

So Jones and company are like, hey, can

24:56

you just send us to like the nearest town

24:59

with a telephone. The villagers are

25:01

like, no, we need you to stop at

25:03

the Maharaja's palace because our children

25:05

are disappearing and we're all starving,

25:08

and this is somehow connected to the theft of

25:10

our secret Sankara stone, and

25:12

so Indian Jones please go figure

25:15

it out.

25:16

Jones and friends go there.

25:17

They meet the local British colonial

25:20

forces, uh and they

25:22

are treated to the aforementioned

25:24

horrendous feast, which

25:26

includes as we mentioned i'ball

25:28

sleep, live snakes, monkey brains, etc.

25:31

Not just nothing, not anything

25:34

that you would actually see somebody eat. Just ridiculous

25:37

corny shit.

25:39

Jones discovers that a thuggy cult

25:41

led by the ominous Molaram have been kidnapping

25:43

local kids to use a slave labor to dig up

25:46

the rest of the Shankara stones. And

25:48

also Molo Ram does crazy

25:51

stuff like pull the beating heart out of living

25:53

people.

25:54

He's doing this, He's just doing that

25:56

all the time. He's as

26:00

Base loves it.

26:02

The film is as a

26:05

really dark, gory

26:08

tone that I actually quite like.

26:11

This was the reason that when I was a kid, I would

26:13

always return to this movie like and

26:16

even as I got older and understood like how

26:19

horrifically racist it was, like it seemed

26:21

like a fantasy to me, but when I.

26:23

Was a kid, so I didn't really put it together

26:25

as much.

26:25

But like the darkness, especially when

26:27

you get into the

26:30

the voodoo kind.

26:31

Of like horror elements.

26:33

Even the feast actually has played very much

26:35

for horror, which plays into the horrific racist

26:37

shit. But yeah, when you get down

26:40

into the caverns and they're sacrificing the

26:42

kids and everything, it's really bleak.

26:45

I mean when he when Molram pulls the heart

26:47

out, it's like the face melt from Raiders.

26:49

It's many fools out

26:51

of India and see it like pushing through

26:54

the chest.

26:54

I always remember that.

26:56

And then of course Indy is you

26:59

know, turned into a zombie

27:02

and a zombie at a certain point, and it's

27:04

really really scary. And there's that man

27:07

that scene that sticks with me even

27:09

now, when Short Round is like I

27:11

love you Indy, please wake up and Indie

27:13

is like hitting him and stuff and

27:16

k Kwan is crying and.

27:17

The burns and wake up.

27:20

Very very dark and very very violent. In fact,

27:23

two months after Temple of Dooms released,

27:25

the MPAA, at the behest of Spielberg

27:28

would create the PG thirteen rating because

27:31

PG this, this movie and

27:33

Gremlins really

27:35

really pushed the envelope of what PG

27:38

could be. Eventually, Indi,

27:40

with significant help from Short Round, defeats

27:43

mol Aram, Freeze the kids, turns to Shankar

27:45

Stones and the

27:48

British colonial forces are victorious,

27:50

gunning down maybe many of the thuggy

27:52

cult.

27:53

And that movie, how about he should have help

27:55

get rid of those colonial forces.

27:56

Can I just say that this was also just one of

27:58

the only.

27:59

Times just want to not to give Indiana

28:01

Jones any credit because I wouldn't like to do that, you know, But

28:03

I will say nice to see him return

28:06

a stone. He usually he'll just

28:08

be stealing that stone to put it in a museum.

28:10

You know. I'm good for him for returning

28:12

that stone.

28:12

Wish he'd learn a lesson there and continued

28:15

that throughout his life.

28:16

We go to Last Crusade, and

28:18

this is a film with a

28:21

notably lighter touch than Temple

28:24

of Doom, a more adventurous, humor

28:27

filled movie, and I think it's the

28:29

best movie, the the best one.

28:31

I think it combines what

28:34

both movies did well and manages

28:36

to show a lot of what they did

28:39

less well.

28:40

And yeah, just very

28:42

fun.

28:42

This actually has my favorite cold open

28:44

of all the trilogy, one of the most.

28:46

Impactful cinemastic moments

28:49

for me.

28:49

I still think about it regularly.

28:51

I think it's just wonderful. So yeah,

28:53

this is a joy. This is my favorite.

28:56

So that that aforementioned

28:59

cold open tokes place in Utah in

29:02

the teens. We meet

29:04

the young Indiana Jones with a

29:07

wonderful long mop of surver

29:09

hair played by rocks

29:12

By the Late River Phoenix as

29:16

who is wonderful in this.

29:17

Role, so fun, you want to see a whole

29:19

movie about him.

29:20

And as this great train chase,

29:23

you learn about why he's afraid of snakes.

29:26

Where he got his look, which is a really weird

29:29

lore.

29:32

Yeah, apparently like he just he

29:34

just got his entire look from a guy

29:37

who my hat.

29:39

Off that he bested him. Like this beats

29:44

Indiana Jones as a child.

29:46

And Indiana Jones is like that had

29:48

just based my entire look, vibes, these

29:51

aesthetic everything, Yeah, just

29:53

got to be based on him as a teen. This

29:55

kid was like, this ship's going to be in a museum.

29:58

And he

30:00

loved it.

30:01

The zeal for museums cross the Carnado

30:03

that belongs in a museum. Even

30:05

then, you know, young

30:08

Indiana Jones was like he was passionate

30:10

about museums. Back and the present at

30:12

school, Uh,

30:15

Doctor Jones get his gets his dad's journal

30:17

in the mail and he discovers that his dad, who

30:19

is a medievalist, has

30:21

disappeared apparently

30:24

well on a quest for the legendary

30:26

Holy Grail aka jc's

30:30

mug. Walter Donovan,

30:33

the financier behind

30:35

this quest for the Grail invites

30:38

doctor Jones over and

30:40

he says, hey, why don't you go look

30:42

for your dad? You know, we were really close to finding

30:44

it. Yeah, what's the We were really close to finding

30:47

the Grail.

30:48

Why don't you go?

30:49

Jones and his buddy doctor Marcus Brody had to Venice

30:51

on dad's trail. There they meet full

30:54

blown Nazi beauty

30:56

doctor Elsis Schneider. I guess who's

30:59

been working closely with Andrew Jones. He's very

31:01

very close.

31:02

She lies about being a Nazi, but I feel

31:04

like he's probably met enough Nazis to know she

31:06

had big Nazi energy.

31:08

Issue big when

31:10

when when people are like, well, okay, but she didn't

31:12

know she's like a blonde

31:15

Austrian.

31:16

In nineteen thirty eight.

31:20

Chahn said, yeah, like could

31:22

we wouldn't she be like hey, so

31:24

so even.

31:25

You would kind of assume she's a Nazi, right,

31:28

you'd at least act.

31:29

I think he's like, he's like, well, my dad's

31:31

working with her, so you yeah, I don't

31:33

want to know. I don't want to I'm just like, and

31:36

you know, yeah, the dad

31:39

son Elsa love I always

31:42

think about So I love it.

31:43

I love that. I love that they get

31:45

a little bit.

31:46

Of a gag out of uh,

31:49

you know, the innate misogyny

31:51

of the late eighties with

31:53

the oh, doctor

31:56

Schneider is a woman.

31:58

No one ever could have seen this coming. Holy

32:01

shit, Oh my god, could

32:03

you believe it?

32:05

A beautiful woman and she's

32:07

not wearing like giant glosses

32:09

and doesn't have like badly cut

32:11

bags. Also, I will say, when

32:16

you get the reveal of Indiana

32:18

Jones's dad being played by Sean Connery, that's

32:21

like a top tier cost.

32:24

It does. It does so

32:26

good together too, like, yeah, just

32:29

enjoyable.

32:30

Most of them. Yeah.

32:32

Jones discovers that there is a tomb

32:35

underneath the library in Venice, and

32:37

there they find a night shield which has instructions

32:39

that lead them to Iscanderon. There

32:42

they discover that the Nazis have taken Henry to a

32:44

castle in Austria. Jones

32:46

sends Marcus Brody with the diary separately

32:49

to his Scanderoon to meet up with Gimli,

32:51

and later he sleeps with.

32:52

The Nazi doctor fun.

32:55

Okay, Indy sneaks

32:57

into the castle rescue his dad, but Elsa reveals

32:59

herself now to be the full blow Nazi

33:01

that she indeed is full fledged believer.

33:04

In the third right, double crosses them Indian

33:06

Henry escape. Henry slaps Indy for

33:08

using Christ's name in vain. Which is going

33:10

to be a theme in this movie. Is doctor

33:12

Jones is steadily indoctrinated into

33:15

the Christian Catholic faith. The

33:18

pair make their way to Berlin, where Indiana

33:20

gets Hitler's autograph, and later they get

33:22

out of town by sneaking board a zeppelin and stealing

33:24

a Luftwaff plane.

33:26

Crazy sequins.

33:28

You could not believe that oil of that happens

33:30

in the time that you just described it.

33:33

Insane sequence Unha.

33:36

Indiana fights more Nazis, as

33:39

does the centuries old secret

33:41

sect who has been guarding the grail all these

33:43

years. Indiana rescues his dad

33:45

and doctor Brody from an out of controlled tank which

33:47

doubles off a cliff, and it seems like

33:50

Indiana goes over the edge. But you know what, you

33:52

look at the clock, there's thirty minutes left in this movie.

33:54

Of course, he's still alive, and his dad,

33:57

thinking that he was gone, embraces him. There's

33:59

a wonderful like man

34:01

Harrison Ford is so good. There's a wonderful

34:04

gag where Henry, Gimli,

34:08

and Marcus are all peering over the

34:10

edge.

34:10

They're they're shattered with grief.

34:12

And Indiana, who climbed up, you

34:14

know, some some distance

34:17

away, totters over to them

34:19

and was like, what are.

34:20

They looking at him? And then they

34:22

realize that he's alive. It's fantastic.

34:24

Yeah, it's really good stuff.

34:26

Later, in front of the grails

34:28

hiding place, the Nazis shoot Henry

34:30

in order to force Indy to go in and find the cup

34:33

inside. Indiana, as we mentioned,

34:36

is indoctrinated into Catholicism,

34:38

being forced to kneel to

34:41

read, uh, you know, Christ's

34:43

name.

34:43

But you know, I will say, they make it look quite

34:45

fun, like

34:49

like a cool bridge.

34:50

It's fantastic. He makes a leap of

34:52

faith.

34:53

Yes, as you mentioned, he eventually

34:55

meets a two thousand year old knight who shows

34:57

him a selection of cups, enter

35:00

financier Walter Donovan, who's like, yes,

35:02

finally he picks the most

35:04

rick Ross style chalice and

35:06

properly dies of old.

35:07

I mean this is even as a child,

35:09

I was like, this man, which

35:12

coup? Do you think Jesus drunk the

35:15

gold?

35:18

She was a humble man and he was a coppin to Babe

35:21

like put two and two together.

35:23

Well, Indiana knows that he picks the worst

35:25

looking cup, and of course it's the right one. He

35:27

uses the cup to heal Dad's gunshot

35:29

wound. Uh, and the grail

35:31

temple falls apart, you know, as they

35:33

take the grail out. Elsa dies when she tumbles

35:36

into She's dead.

35:38

She was gone dying and

35:40

uh.

35:41

And you have to wonder is Indy immortal

35:43

now because you drink from the cup. I think I think you

35:45

have to keep drinking from it.

35:47

I think, so I think what it might be is like I

35:49

think about this a lot because I was thinking about it when I

35:51

was watching the new movie. I was thinking about it as a great

35:53

excuse that they could have used if they wanted to recost

35:56

Indiana Jones. So I think you

35:58

have to stay within the sea

35:59

of where the rail is. And

36:02

that's right, like but like why

36:04

the soldier was then the night was there and he was

36:06

still Oh, and I think if you leave, I

36:08

think it probably gives you some kind of like you

36:11

could you could argue that that's why he's still up

36:13

and that I'm at like eighty five, like it might have some

36:15

residual, but I don't think you'll get in that

36:17

like two thousand year old Like it seems

36:20

like the purpose of the cop is to keep someone

36:22

alive so they can protect the cop, you

36:24

know, one of those good old weird

36:26

narrative cycles. But yeah, I do think that they

36:28

leave it open to interpretation.

36:30

Right, Well, before his job was

36:33

to protect the culp the that

36:36

that night, Crusader's job was

36:38

to just kill Muslim people

36:40

in the Holy Land.

36:41

Willy nilly, that was that.

36:43

We're going very glad that he is in been

36:46

trapped in that cave for two thousand years.

36:48

That's what he deserves. Man, wait till

36:50

he finds out what's going on. Side.

36:51

Well, we go to Kingdom

36:53

of the Crystal Skull. And by the way, fifteen

36:56

years since Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, same

36:58

as.

36:59

The Dark Knight. Is that not insane? Why?

37:02

What is it? Nam As fucking

37:05

sam As like fucking iron Man,

37:07

like a yeah, for the movies.

37:10

If you would have probably if you'd have given people

37:12

a choice of which movie would end up being more

37:14

impactful, they would have probably chosen

37:16

the fourth Indiana Jones movie.

37:18

I think that's probably like if you if you didn't

37:20

just being off of experience.

37:22

Yeah, m hm.

37:24

So it's nineteen fifty seven. The Cold

37:26

War is ramping up. Also, aliens

37:29

exist cash Indiana, Yeah,

37:31

and Indian Jones has been doing clandestine

37:34

missions for the OSS and later the CIA.

37:38

The Russian agents, led by glad

37:41

Reel, sneak into area of fifty one. They

37:43

have also kidnapped Indian his assistant

37:45

Mac in Mexico, and they have

37:47

brought the pair here because they want

37:50

Indy to find this like steaming

37:52

hot et corpse

37:54

even somewhere in the facility, and

37:56

they thinking he's the guy to do it because he's seen

37:59

one of these before. Also, the arc

38:01

of the Covenant is here, but nobody noticed. Jones

38:04

leads the Russians to the

38:07

the hot pocket of alien meat.

38:09

Then Mac betrays Indy to the Russians,

38:12

who again Indiana remains

38:14

terrible shaking adult literally.

38:17

The only one whoever, the

38:19

only real one, and he never shows up

38:21

again. Was wrong with you, lucasfilm? Was wrong

38:23

with the Indiana Jones mistake.

38:26

All the other adults that Indiana

38:28

has ever contracted with eventually

38:30

betray him.

38:31

It isn't seen.

38:33

Indy manages to escape

38:35

the clutches of the Russians, and he

38:38

finds himself eventually

38:41

at the town

38:43

that is the call of duty map Nuketown,

38:46

and this turns out to be a

38:48

you know, a setup for a nuclear bomb

38:51

test explosion so the army can

38:53

see the damage that's going to be done. And all

38:55

of a sudden, the warning siren goes off and Indy

38:57

realizes, oh shit, they're about to let off nuke.

38:59

He climbs inside a lead lined fridge,

39:02

which is blasted

39:04

some two miles away from the

39:07

site, comes crashing

39:09

the earth at like something like sixty seventy

39:12

miles an hour, and Indian Jones absolutely

39:14

surprives. He's fine, with only some light radiation

39:17

poisoning, which is then scrubbed off later at

39:20

the local army base.

39:21

He's fine.

39:22

I just want to say, this is no more ridiculous

39:25

that going down the Himalayas and a dinghy.

39:27

I think this is the least bad

39:29

idea that is in this movie. Like this is fine

39:32

to me. Like Indiana Jones, he's essentially a mortal,

39:35

you know, is fifty seven. No one knows what's

39:37

going on nuclear bombs yet, like everyone's

39:39

dumb, He's in on that line fridge sure, sure

39:42

he is.

39:43

And again he has he

39:45

has some amount

39:47

of Holy

39:49

Grail water running through his veins,

39:52

so he's probably a little bit

39:54

more hearty than your

39:56

average out he's

39:59

sixty five.

39:59

Or when

40:02

he's actually with the added

40:05

protection of the leadline fridge and

40:07

the Holy Ground that makes the Holy Grail.

40:09

Juice come on.

40:11

The FBI interrogates doctor

40:13

Jones, but they set him free in

40:15

large part because like a general who we work

40:17

with is like.

40:19

Do you know this guy is?

40:20

He's been doing secret missions

40:22

for us for years?

40:23

And you gotta let him go.

40:24

Jones goes back to work at Marshall University,

40:26

but again, Cold War tensions

40:28

are really ramping up. The Red Scare is happening

40:31

at this time, and the

40:33

FBI has been, you

40:35

know, like taking away doctor jones

40:37

personal effects and the stuff from his office.

40:40

And so the university is very very sensitive

40:42

at this time to being accused of

40:44

harboring a commie, and so they tell

40:46

doctor Jones, you have to go on permanent

40:48

leave or extended leave.

40:50

I forget exactly how they freeze it. You're

40:52

out. Basically, you're out of here.

40:55

You're out of here.

40:56

We learn right around

40:58

here that both Marcus and

41:00

Henry Jones have passed in recent years.

41:03

Then there's this weird sequence where Jones

41:05

boards a train but then gets off the train.

41:07

So doctor Jones is like, I'm going to

41:09

New York to find my fortunes

41:12

in New York City and figure out what my next move is. He

41:14

gets on the train, but then a biker named Mutt just

41:16

rides along the platform.

41:17

And a really memorable

41:20

hat.

41:21

Looks like Marlon, like a Marlon Brando

41:24

cosplay, and this course is exactly

41:27

Gentleman is played by the

41:30

now canceled Schaia Labouf, and

41:35

he this is Mutt,

41:38

This is Mutt, and Mutt has news. He

41:40

says, hey, Harold Oxley, do

41:42

you know him? And the audience is like, no,

41:44

I've never heard of this guy. But luckily Indiana Jones

41:47

has heard of him. And Indiana Jones is

41:49

like, yeah, my buddy the Ox, and he's like, yeah, the Ox

41:51

is going to be killed because he found a crystal skull

41:53

in Peru. This means something Indiana Jones,

41:55

who gets off the train, and Mutt

41:58

further tells Indiana that his mom,

42:01

Mary, who managed to escape

42:03

the assailants, pointed

42:05

him in Jones's direction, saying this guy can

42:07

help. Ox was apparently heading towards

42:10

a legendary city called Akatore. He

42:13

and Mutt end up escaping the KGB,

42:16

who Indy realizes behind all

42:18

the nefarious stuff going on in this movie, and we realize

42:21

it too, because Kate Blanchette

42:23

is in the beginning of this movie with a Rocky and

42:25

Bullwinkle accent, so he realized that

42:27

this is gonna be the big bat of the movie. Ox's

42:29

trail leads them back to Peru Indana

42:32

Jones. Back in Peru at

42:35

the grave of conquistador Francesco

42:37

Oriana, Indian Mutter attacked

42:40

by weird poisoned dart wielding killers

42:42

and they never come.

42:43

Back and not the throwback to the original

42:45

movie like Yeah.

42:48

In the Grave, the pair follows

42:50

drawings of oblong shaped skulls to various

42:52

mummified conquistadors, including

42:55

Oriana, and they eventually discover a big, old crystal

42:57

skull which could not have been made

42:59

with human technology, Indy finds.

43:03

Unfortunately, Mac and a bunch of Russian

43:05

soldiers are waiting outside for them. Indiana

43:07

again is always getting ambushed outside.

43:10

Every single time. Every

43:12

single time.

43:13

They take Mutt and Indie

43:15

to the jungle, where Indy is reunited

43:18

with Ox, who is now apparently insane,

43:20

driven insane by the crystal skull. The

43:22

Russians want the skull because the skull

43:24

can give you psychic powers and they want to create

43:26

this psychic army and be sure,

43:29

yeah okay. Indy uses

43:31

the skull to make Ox kind

43:34

of sane again. Then

43:36

Gladriel is like, guess what, look

43:39

who I got and produces Marian.

43:41

She reveals that she is Mut's

43:43

mom and Mutt

43:46

is Indiana's son.

43:49

Whoa I want that trying

43:51

to set up a new franchise.

43:53

I think they are.

43:55

And it looks like we have to say Marian

43:57

is no longer drinking, which we love.

43:58

No, I love that, and Allen happy to see

44:01

you back, cam Marian Raven job.

44:04

The Russians, uh say,

44:06

listen, we're gonna kill your longtime

44:09

love Marian, even though you never hardly

44:12

talk,

44:17

but we're gonna kill her unless you help us.

44:19

And so uh this means

44:22

that Indie, Mutt, Mariyan and Ox have to escape, and

44:24

escape they do.

44:25

There is this like.

44:26

Kind of slapstick gag with

44:29

what is like a substance

44:31

that is not quicksand YadA

44:33

YadA YadA. Eventually, Jones and the Russians

44:35

find akatorre the repository of the.

44:37

Skulls, an alien reassembles

44:40

itself. That happens.

44:43

Galadriel is driven insane when the

44:46

alien downloads all of the alien

44:48

knowledge into her mind, which she

44:51

did want it, but like, come on, what

44:54

did you think they were gonna do?

44:55

Put out a fucking hot drive, like

44:57

whether put on something like that.

44:59

I feel you're doing a great job of summing

45:01

up just how absolutely off the rails the end

45:03

of this movie goes.

45:04

B I do think the first half of this movie is a very

45:07

rumpy Indiana Jones joint.

45:09

I also think too, you know, I think

45:11

Indiana Jones would be seen as a communist

45:13

because he's a little.

45:14

Bit liberal minded. I think there's interesting things

45:16

that play here.

45:17

And then it's like an alien downloads his brain

45:19

into Kate Lunchet's skulls and Indiana

45:22

Jones swing through the CGI jungle

45:24

next to the monkeys, and then an alien makes

45:26

it So.

45:27

Why did they make so many skulls and why did

45:29

they leave them on Earth? If you have these powerful.

45:31

Skulls that will lead that

45:33

will give people psyching cas like

45:37

just chilling. Oh you know what, maybe these humans need

45:39

to be psychic. Maybe that would help.

45:41

We should note that once again Spielberg

45:44

has gone back to the toolkit and decided

45:46

that the hero will not do anything

45:49

to solve the issue between

45:52

he and the antagonist. There

45:54

is, in fact, it is, in fact the alien

45:56

downloading its brain who who

45:59

gets rid of the Russian

46:02

top KGB agent. The alien then

46:04

flies on in a UFO through an intermensional

46:06

portal. More intermensional portals to come

46:08

in this franchise. Indy

46:11

gets his job back and marries Mary in the

46:13

end, which brings us to

46:16

Indiana Jones and the Dial

46:19

of Destiny up next in the airlock.

46:36

Okay, folks were stepping out of the airlock

46:38

and into the year nineteen

46:41

sixty nine, the year in which the Knicks

46:43

would win their first of two

46:45

championships for Indiana

46:48

Jones and The Dial of Destiny

46:50

directed by James Van Gold, written by Jez Butterworth,

46:53

John Henry Butterworth, David Cope, James

46:55

man Gold, of course, based on

46:58

characters by George Lucas and Philip Kaufman. Music

47:01

Wonderful Music by John Williams, starring

47:04

the eighty year old Harrison Ford is Henry Jones,

47:06

There's a Kaya, Doctor Indiana

47:08

Jones, Phoebe waller Bridge is Laynea Shaw, the

47:10

Wonderful Man's Michelson as Urugen Voler.

47:13

Antonio banderis wonderful

47:15

Surprise has been all day.

47:17

I didn't know.

47:18

Yeah, John John Rhys Davies,

47:21

who I'm not even gonna look. He's back,

47:23

Folks, Toby Jones and a brief

47:25

roles Basilshaw and more and more caron

47:28

all and also make a wonderful appearance. Should

47:31

we try and recap it first before

47:33

we talk about it?

47:36

Yeah? What do you want to try and do it by memory? Let

47:38

me see.

47:39

So we opened in nineteen sixty nine and

47:41

Doctor Indiana. No, actually

47:44

we open in the last days

47:46

of World War two. There

47:49

is Indian Jones is a

47:51

prisoner at some Nazi fortress

47:55

and he has taken prisoner along

47:58

with his buddy Buzz

48:01

Basil Shaw. They're here

48:03

looking for like a spear

48:05

that was used to stab Christ. But it turns out

48:07

that's a fake and the actual thing that

48:10

the Nazis are after is uh

48:13

the anti antik etherea mechanism

48:16

which was created by Archimedes

48:18

and which eventually

48:21

you will discover can allow people to

48:23

travel through time, through fissures in time.

48:26

Yes, it is the closing days

48:29

of World War two, and Indiana Jones and

48:31

Basil end up on a plunder train, which

48:33

is the Nazis trying to steal all the ship. And

48:36

then they're like, we gotta

48:38

stop, we gotta stop, we gotta get this train. We've got to

48:40

take this stuff to a museum. I fucking love museums.

48:43

Museums are so important.

48:44

But Matts Michelson

48:47

look a little bit d aged, but still looking good. Harrison

48:49

Ford very d aged, very

48:52

very bad aging that we've

48:54

usually seen.

48:54

I will say it's down

48:57

down.

49:00

If you look at the math too much, it gets a bit Superman

49:03

in Justice, like can I am? They

49:05

should have de aged the voice because

49:07

that is the voice of an eighty years he is he's

49:11

feeling I was feeling like he had a cold.

49:14

I am a big as you know, as I said

49:16

earlier, I love Herriver Phoenix as young Indiana

49:19

Jones. I'm saying, cast a different actor,

49:21

it would be fine Oscarizer Indiana

49:23

Jones.

49:23

Sebastian's Sebastian,

49:26

Uh you know what's his name? He plays?

49:28

He's the win a soldier. You know, there's

49:30

all kinds of young young men you

49:33

can play. You can have play him.

49:35

I was gonna say Sebastian Shaw like he was in the hell Fire

49:37

Club. But anyway, he's look in dh

49:39

They're on the train. It's very

49:41

CG heavy, but Matts Michelson is

49:43

there, Jurgen Vola, and he really

49:45

wants the dial of Destiny.

49:47

He believed. He wants that dial, he believes.

49:50

Guess what, uh, Doctor

49:52

Jones and his buzzy basil kind

49:54

of foil this.

49:56

We flash forward.

49:57

To nineteen sixty nine, where Indian

49:59

Jones living in New York City.

50:01

He's old.

50:02

He doesn't like that his young

50:05

neighbors are partying and blasting

50:07

the Beatles.

50:08

He just don't care anymore.

50:10

They don't care.

50:11

Nobody cares about archaeology anymore.

50:14

And all anybody wants to do is get high

50:17

and go to Lovin's and go to Woodstock

50:19

and share Grateful Dead and

50:22

like fucking watch the telecast

50:25

of the moon landing. They don't how Dad, they don't

50:27

want How dare I try not to

50:29

go to the war?

50:31

How dare they do this? Anyway?

50:34

Doctor Jones makes the acquaintance

50:36

of Helena Shaw, his goddaughter who he

50:38

won in a string of women

50:40

who's he abandoned over the

50:42

course.

50:43

Of casually twenty

50:45

years twenty years.

50:50

Her dad went insane because of

50:52

the Dial of Destiny aka the

50:54

Antikafa aka Archimedes

50:56

dial.

50:56

Which Indiana Jones gave to him. May

50:59

I just say?

51:00

And then Helena like runs a little

51:02

scam on Indiana Jones and she's like, bro,

51:04

where's the dial? I want to find it. I want

51:07

to become like a famous archaeologist like

51:09

you. But my dad said

51:11

you lost it. We know that didn't happen. We know Indy

51:13

gave it to him. And Indiana Jones is like, hmm, oh,

51:16

I think that's.

51:16

Not what happened.

51:17

But I trust you so because you're

51:19

an adult and you're going to help me, and that's gone

51:21

really well for me in the past.

51:23

So he takes her to his little office

51:25

in his school in downtown

51:28

Manhattan. Sure the college

51:30

is there on the street, and there's a big part

51:32

of college too, I believe it is, yes, yes, yes.

51:34

And there is a huge parade going on for

51:36

the astronauts who have come back successfully

51:38

from the moon landing. And Helena

51:41

and Indy go there and he shows her, I actually have

51:43

the dial of destiny, and you know what, you can have

51:45

it because I trust you. Ah

51:47

ah, bad choice. Because

51:50

Helena betrays him. She locks him

51:52

in and he gets chased down by

51:54

an interesting collection of FBI

51:57

slash CIA agents and Nazis.

52:00

Who are walking together.

52:02

That's right, because it turns out, folks,

52:04

that's our good friend.

52:07

Jurgen Voler is in the States

52:09

now as part of Operation paper Clip. He

52:12

is one of the Nazis who the US

52:14

government has tapped to help with

52:17

the rocketry program which

52:19

put the astronauts

52:21

on the Moon that everybody is celebrating, and

52:23

so apparently because of this, Urgen

52:26

Wahl has like a lot of leverage and just

52:28

gets to like assemble his only mercenary

52:31

Nazi crew to find yeah,

52:34

under the watchful eyes of the CIA

52:37

who were watching his Nazis

52:39

like just murder regular people

52:42

in the streets and like people who work

52:44

at Hunter College, and they just like look the

52:46

other way and go, well, I don't know this guy like invented

52:49

rockets, so we don't do anything.

52:51

You know, he was he is a Nazi war criminal

52:53

who's openly racist to people in America,

52:56

but don't worry about it. He created a rocket.

52:58

So turns out, thanks

53:00

to Salah, the returning John Reyes Davis,

53:03

turns out Helena is a little

53:05

scammer.

53:06

She's been selling antiquity.

53:07

She's not an archaeologists

53:10

survived respect. She doesn't

53:12

like museums. She's taking them from a museum,

53:14

but she's not giving them back. She's selling

53:17

him to the highest bidder. So that means

53:19

Indiana Jones has to go to Tangier, and

53:22

so does jug and Voller and his crew

53:24

of like Nazi CIA agents.

53:27

Right, who then shoot

53:30

one of the CIA agents and just kill

53:32

her dead.

53:33

And her American government response she

53:37

was interesting and then they killed her off.

53:40

So a lot of stuff happens,

53:44

you know chases.

53:45

There's many, many chases. You go in a little tuck

53:48

tuck chase.

53:49

The Jurgen has the dial of destiny,

53:52

Helena has the dial of destiny. Indiana

53:54

Jones has the dial of destiny. Lots of mcguffin

53:56

swapping.

53:58

Then Jurgen with.

54:02

Helena aka wombat

54:04

his you know his apparently

54:07

has killed her and with doctor

54:10

Indiana Jones at again

54:12

a spry age of eighty as his

54:14

prisoner flies off with the dial

54:17

of destiny in a period correct luftwaff

54:19

Up transport plane in search

54:22

using this dial of a fisher

54:25

through time that will deliver him to nineteen

54:27

thirty eight thirty nine.

54:28

I forget the.

54:29

Exactly with the idea, get

54:32

this twist, Rosie

54:35

to kill Hitler Gouse

54:37

like Hitler fumbled the bag.

54:39

I'm smarter than him. Put

54:42

me in coach.

54:43

I want to play as the fur.

54:45

I'm going to go in there. I have a meeting with Hitler.

54:48

I know the date of the meeting with Hitler. I'm

54:50

going to meet the guy.

54:51

I'm gonna kill him.

54:51

And then I guess the Nazis

54:54

are just gonna coalesce around me. They're

54:56

not gonna put me to death for

54:58

killing the furre going to all

55:01

coalesce.

55:01

Around me as the leader, and I will

55:03

lead Nazi Germany to victory in World

55:06

War two. That's his plan.

55:08

Yeah, seems silly,

55:12

but okay, it was.

55:14

A good twist. It was like they were like, what

55:16

about if a Nazi wanted to kill Hitler? And then they were

55:18

like, but he's the bad guy, so how do we make

55:20

him wist?

55:21

Well, Hilo is stupid and I'm gonna be a better Hitler

55:23

okay, but

55:25

guess what Archimedes according

55:28

to according to Indiana Joints, Archimedes.

55:30

Idiot for idiot. He didn't

55:34

trift, he didn't put that it

55:36

is. So guess what. They

55:39

fly through the fissire in time, followed

55:41

by the hilarious

55:44

twelve year old Teddy.

55:47

Who is Helene's like sidekick and

55:50

he can also fly a plane. Good for him.

55:53

So then these two planes end up going

55:55

through the Fissia and they're not in Nazi Germany.

55:57

Good. They are in Sicily is

56:00

where they were meant to be. But it's like three

56:02

hundred and fourteen BC.

56:05

He has something something like that

56:07

something and the cod and

56:09

the the you know, the Late

56:11

Roman Mid Roman Republic and

56:14

was it. I guess Middle Roman Republic is busy

56:16

laying siege to Syracuse,

56:19

where Archimedes lives. And

56:21

long story, short, folks, what

56:24

we find out is that

56:26

Archimedes actually rigged the Dial

56:28

of Destiny because he needed

56:31

help. He knew he was gonna need help in

56:33

this siege to fight off the Romans, and

56:35

so he created this dial with

56:38

the hopes that whoever finds it

56:40

would go back through the time fisher with some help

56:43

so that they could fight off the Romans, and.

56:44

They scare the Romans off because they're in two

56:46

planes and the Romans think they're dragons, and

56:49

that helps. And also the

56:52

dial is essentially a trap because it

56:54

will never go anywhere else.

56:55

Archimedi goes to the siege of Syracuse.

56:58

So you'll go into the city, you'll go in there. Archimedes

57:01

also keeps jug and Valla's watch.

57:03

He's like, this is useful. I feel like that

57:06

is a steampunk level time

57:08

change. Like Steampunk is based on the idea

57:10

that like, what if people had invented

57:13

a computer in the Victorian Age? Very very

57:16

paraphrase there, but generally that's idea.

57:19

I feel like if there was a

57:21

watch in three hundred

57:23

and fourteen BC, the entire world

57:26

would have changed. I feel like that

57:28

is enough of technology. I don't

57:30

know anything. I don't know anything about time travel

57:33

or Archimedes. So Indiana

57:35

Jones decides he.

57:36

Wants to stay. I

57:38

don't know why, because

57:41

he loves history.

57:42

We should add okay, so it

57:45

is actually two thirteen to two twelve. Sorry,

57:49

Like what do we know?

57:53

One of the fun things, kind

57:55

of fun things, and I don't know how purposeful it

57:57

is about this movie. Is so Urgen

58:00

Volar was taken to the US as part

58:02

of Project paper Clip, in which the United States

58:05

was acquiring geniuses

58:07

to help their military, you

58:09

know projects uh,

58:12

and interestingly part

58:14

of the.

58:14

Siege of Syracuse.

58:15

The Siege of Syracuse is part of a larger struggle

58:17

against Carthage, but the Romans were

58:19

well aware of the genius of Archimedes

58:22

and had orders

58:24

to capture him alive and bring him back

58:27

to Rome so that he could build all these fantastic

58:29

contraptions like the ones he had built to

58:31

defend Syracuse.

58:32

So he was going to be kind of the Urgen

58:34

Volar of nar Yeah.

58:39

Yeah, Anyway, doctor

58:41

Jones has been wounded in this whole thing,

58:43

and he's he's bleeding out, and

58:45

he's like they get to meet

58:47

Archimedes and they speak

58:49

Greek to him, and apparently Greek of

58:52

two thirteen BC is just like Greek

58:54

now, and

58:57

so they converse with him and

59:02

Jones is like, leave me here.

59:05

He's like, I don't have nothing my

59:07

son. By the way, sorry, we should have mentioned

59:09

this alley about I wasn't r

59:13

I P Mark. He died

59:15

in Vietnam. They killed them.

59:17

All, probably

59:19

because he was trying to knife people instead

59:22

of using guns.

59:23

I'm saying he had a lot of problems, so

59:25

that spinoff never occurred for him, even

59:27

though he did pick up the hat at the end.

59:29

Of he did pick up their hat,

59:31

but you never because

59:34

he died in Vietnam.

59:35

And that is incredibly

59:37

harsh. But gave me a chuckle.

59:39

And Indiana Jones, the worst thing about

59:41

it is my only signed up just to piss off

59:43

his dad because that they dropped.

59:46

Prop that in the course

59:48

of his conversation with Archimedes

59:51

is so.

59:51

Fucking I don't have any to live for. He's

59:54

gone nothing to live for. Man went

59:56

to Vietnam, went to Vietnam. Marion

59:58

left him very love, do the effort.

1:00:01

To make that relationship work. He's just gonna

1:00:03

stay in Rome. Okay, that's

1:00:05

what Maybe he's.

1:00:06

Gonna leave me in ancient Sicily in two

1:00:08

thirteen PC. I want to live here. I want to die

1:00:11

here.

1:00:11

The rooms are about to kill everyone

1:00:13

here, So he's gonna die, souit. Men will

1:00:17

fly through a fissure in time

1:00:19

and go back to ancient Rome instead of going to

1:00:21

therapy apparently.

1:00:23

So he's so he's there. Helene is like

1:00:25

not having.

1:00:25

It Helene talks. Yeah, she talks and said,

1:00:28

well socks some sense.

1:00:29

Yeah, the face, and she's like, you're

1:00:31

out, bro, We're going right.

1:00:33

And then carries him aboard Teddy's little

1:00:35

plane and Teddy's little plane

1:00:38

which is already carrying Teddy and the rateful

1:00:40

pilot of the plane who was asleep in the bed.

1:00:42

Hilarious necessary Indiana Jones

1:00:44

gag by the way.

1:00:45

I was like, I was like, sure, what is that.

1:00:47

We don't need that guy, but he was

1:00:50

there.

1:00:51

And now the plane, this little

1:00:53

ass plane is to carry.

1:00:59

Little Eddie and

1:01:03

yeah, and an unconscious Indiana

1:01:05

Jones of the fishert.

1:01:08

And it does, and so they end up

1:01:10

back in nineteen sixty nine in New York

1:01:12

City, Indiana Jones wakes up in his apartment.

1:01:15

He has been nursed back to health by Helena

1:01:18

and Marion, who has arrived

1:01:21

and apparently decided, you know what,

1:01:23

this guy is a toxic, shitty

1:01:26

partner who started

1:01:28

messing around with me when I was a

1:01:30

child, an age when I could not

1:01:32

absolutely consent to whatever was going on.

1:01:35

And then later even after

1:01:37

we said like you know what, let's let's get hitched

1:01:39

and let's finally do the thing. I guess abandoned

1:01:42

me because he can't, you

1:01:44

know, ever stop heating the

1:01:46

siren call of artifacts from

1:01:48

other cultures.

1:01:50

And so but you know what, he's

1:01:52

been.

1:01:53

Shot and has

1:01:55

just come back from to thirteen BC, and

1:01:59

so I am

1:02:01

just absolutely gonna put the grocers away in his refrigerator

1:02:04

and we're gonna.

1:02:04

Patch things up, and they patch things up.

1:02:07

Yeah.

1:02:07

That actually, I have to say from the whole movie,

1:02:09

that was the moment that really like emotionally

1:02:12

resonated for me.

1:02:13

I just think because I think

1:02:16

Karen Allen's fucking great.

1:02:18

And I will say I just

1:02:20

want to give Karen Allen some props here because

1:02:22

she has talked quite extensively. This

1:02:25

was the quote she said, I have thought that I

1:02:27

would be majorly a

1:02:29

part of the film. So she was under

1:02:31

the impression that originally

1:02:35

she thought that she was supposed to be

1:02:38

a major role. She told that to the Hollywood

1:02:40

Reporter and she was kind of surprised

1:02:42

that in the end,

1:02:45

because originally, I guess Steven Spielberg had been

1:02:47

working on this movie and she

1:02:49

was meant to be more of a role, and then that changed when Jams

1:02:51

Mangold came in.

1:02:53

I would have liked to see more.

1:02:54

I thought that was one of the most like

1:02:56

not like, most emotionally resonant

1:02:58

moments, and it was just lovely and I was happy

1:03:01

for them, so like, good for them, but also

1:03:03

you made many good points. I kind of wish Marian

1:03:05

had moved on and gone to therapy

1:03:08

too and found a more healthy partner.

1:03:09

But you know what, they got a nice apartment in New York.

1:03:11

The sun's coming through the window. You

1:03:13

can drive a multi man. It's

1:03:16

gonna be a multimillion dollar apartment. Oh

1:03:18

like twenty thirty years when Indian

1:03:20

Jones might still be alive.

1:03:24

Run you could do it. Okay.

1:03:27

So here's the thing about

1:03:29

this movie, which is fine, it's fine,

1:03:31

it's it's perfectly fine movie.

1:03:34

It is a.

1:03:36

Bomb, certainly in the context

1:03:38

of its three

1:03:40

hundred plus million reported

1:03:43

budgets three hundred and fifty to four hundred

1:03:45

million. It only made sixty million dollars in

1:03:47

an opening weekend and then dropped off precipitously,

1:03:51

and gosh, let's

1:03:53

talk about why. Let's talk about that budget

1:03:56

first, because reported three fifty.

1:03:57

To four hundred I

1:04:00

before my behave.

1:04:01

That I don't believe that there's any way

1:04:04

this movie I don't.

1:04:05

Yeah, it has to be something weird

1:04:07

going on.

1:04:07

Yeah, because there's just no way this movie

1:04:10

costs three hundred and fifty million if it won.

1:04:12

And two it does not look like if it did, it

1:04:15

didn't make it to the screen. I think that

1:04:17

was my biggest struggle with

1:04:19

this movie. It's like, look, the movie one is

1:04:21

too long, two and a half hours long. Don't need it

1:04:23

should have been two hours long, should have been ninety minutes

1:04:25

long. I know we say that a lot on here.

1:04:27

Look sometimes I love a long movie.

1:04:29

Yeah, And I know movies like Endgame is

1:04:31

really the one that made

1:04:34

it seem like, well, look, this is like almost a three

1:04:36

hour long movie, and people will go and watch it five

1:04:38

times in the cinema. That has changed

1:04:40

post COVID what people will choose to go to the cinema

1:04:42

to see and rewatch and they know this

1:04:44

will end up on Disney Plus soon. You can make

1:04:46

a shorter, thrifty, or more efficient

1:04:49

movie and a lot of times it's gonna people

1:04:51

can see it more times in the cinema. You can show it

1:04:53

more times, and it can be

1:04:55

a more bracing experience this. I've

1:04:58

watched the Indiana Jo's movie so many times.

1:05:00

Lucasfilm was like a many many, many

1:05:02

many times in my house growing up, right like VHS.

1:05:05

Lucas could not goonies all

1:05:08

that stuff, like uh and the Triviers.

1:05:10

I've seen all of them, and this movie did not.

1:05:13

It didn't have that bracing engagement,

1:05:15

even in the way of like A Temple of Doom, which like we

1:05:17

said, is like so horrifically racist.

1:05:19

That would get you caught up in the emotion.

1:05:21

In the way that the movie was made,

1:05:23

and then you're like, oh, I wish it wasn't like this, or I'm going

1:05:26

to turn it off. This bit's really fucked up or whatever. This

1:05:28

movie is very by

1:05:30

the book modern Hollywood blockbrestle.

1:05:33

I don't even think it really fits into the cool kind

1:05:35

of requel style because.

1:05:38

India is the main character.

1:05:39

They don't do a great job building a

1:05:41

new character that you want to follow, and it doesn't seem

1:05:43

like they're interested in doing that, Like it doesn't

1:05:46

feel like they're trying to set Helena up for anything

1:05:48

here. But it also feels like they don't really say goodbye

1:05:51

to India in a concrete way. And

1:05:54

I agree with you. I think the biggest problem for me was

1:05:56

like visually, there

1:05:58

were cool there were course seeks, but I

1:06:00

missed that practical.

1:06:01

I know I sound so old.

1:06:03

I'm sorry, but I am a whole person, like I

1:06:06

can't help it when

1:06:08

I think about the we talked

1:06:10

about the River Phoenix opening to Last

1:06:13

Crusade. You know, on the train, there's

1:06:16

so much fun seeing and scrambling around

1:06:18

on that train, like having this adventure. There's

1:06:20

a huge train fight sequence

1:06:22

here and it's all

1:06:25

CG and they're daged and

1:06:27

the rain is CG and trainer CG

1:06:29

and everything else is CG. And

1:06:31

it just misses that, you know, the boulder

1:06:34

chasing. The energy is lack

1:06:36

of visceralness.

1:06:37

It doesn't feel real.

1:06:38

It also feels almost too slick,

1:06:40

which is kind of goes against the poulpinis

1:06:43

and not necessarily slick in a good way, but like visually

1:06:46

actually slick. And you know, super

1:06:48

producer Chris brought up it before

1:06:50

we were talking about it, and I thought about it too, because obviously

1:06:52

they showed the Mission Impossible Dead Reckoning trailer

1:06:54

before this movie.

1:06:57

There's a huge.

1:06:57

Train sequence in that, and we know it was practical,

1:07:00

and that movie apparently cost almost one hundred million

1:07:02

dollars less than the highest end of

1:07:04

budget of this movie. I feel I

1:07:06

understand Harrison Ford's old but like

1:07:08

maybe that should make you question the

1:07:11

situation. I just feel like the lack

1:07:13

of practical the overcg it

1:07:16

was hard for me to connect in an emotional

1:07:19

way with.

1:07:20

The characters until really.

1:07:21

That like quiet moment at the end with Marion

1:07:24

and Indiana Jones, And I think a lot of

1:07:26

that did come from that. It

1:07:29

doesn't look like it costs that much money,

1:07:32

and it feels like

1:07:35

a lot of the heart of the Odd movies is missing,

1:07:37

and I think a lot of that is to do with those those

1:07:39

visual choices.

1:07:41

Yeah, I think moreover, when

1:07:44

talking about this movie's disappointing

1:07:46

box office performance, I

1:07:50

think I haven't seen anybody

1:07:52

talk about this, but this movie is it

1:07:56

has attempted to do something that

1:07:58

no other movie has done, is

1:08:01

sell it reported three hundred

1:08:03

and fifty million dollar budget movie

1:08:06

and earn a massive return

1:08:09

for a vehicle whose

1:08:11

star is eighty yeah.

1:08:13

And act hicle and action

1:08:16

vehicle. This has never been

1:08:18

no.

1:08:18

This is When you said this, I thought this was really

1:08:21

a great point that kind of people aren't really talking

1:08:23

about. It's almost an untested product,

1:08:25

even though it's an ip.

1:08:27

Yeah, it's never been done before. They

1:08:29

even never put a person this old

1:08:31

in the starring role of an action

1:08:34

We were talking about budget action movie.

1:08:36

We were talking about this like in the group chat,

1:08:38

and like, the funny thing is about it.

1:08:39

The closest comp is like an Expendables

1:08:42

movie, right, and those are like twenty years

1:08:44

younger.

1:08:45

And there's about ten of them in the last

1:08:47

one, Expendables three, And that

1:08:49

movie made like two hundred million dollars. So

1:08:51

it's not even like there is not even like a

1:08:53

billion dollar version of

1:08:56

this that has been done. Even to the closest

1:08:58

comp.

1:08:58

You could point it like a low Iron's Gate stuff

1:09:01

and say, you know, John Wick is older

1:09:03

Taken, Liam Neeson and Taken.

1:09:06

You're still talking about younger.

1:09:08

You're still talking about like in their sixties.

1:09:10

Like Harrison Ford again is eighty And I

1:09:12

understand what the d aging, but let's say the d aging

1:09:15

was seamless.

1:09:16

You know how old he is. I

1:09:19

know how old Harrison

1:09:21

Ford is. I also know.

1:09:22

That I feel like they've done it enough times

1:09:25

now to know that I don't

1:09:27

think audiences really respond well to the

1:09:29

aging.

1:09:30

I just think it's like, just cast someone younger.

1:09:32

It's about to stand the person who's I

1:09:34

did not give the credit to. So

1:09:36

many people wanted to see him as a young Luke Skywalker

1:09:39

for years, there were all these conversations about

1:09:41

how he looked like Mark Hamill when he was

1:09:43

younger. You know, the idea of casting

1:09:45

someone new is exciting. I understand that we

1:09:47

had the hand solo experience,

1:09:50

which didn't necessarily hit in the right

1:09:52

way.

1:09:52

But then I think a better movie again, I'll

1:09:54

say it again, I think a better movie than people remember.

1:09:56

But yeah, yes, I agree to And also

1:09:58

I will say I think as well, well, arguably

1:10:01

a character who we already knew his.

1:10:02

Younger version of. So maybe you don't need to do that.

1:10:04

But when you're returning a character Luke,

1:10:08

you know Indiana Jones, if you want to do that, don't be

1:10:10

afraid to cost a new person.

1:10:12

Guys, the daging is scary.

1:10:14

It's given on CALLI Valley.

1:10:16

Yeah, so I think that you

1:10:19

know that it's a thing that nobody's really talking

1:10:21

about, which is the kind of

1:10:23

unprecedented nature of trying to

1:10:27

execute this level of

1:10:29

movie with a star in

1:10:31

his eighties. And then I think, secondarily

1:10:34

listen. Shia

1:10:37

above is not the right guy. But one

1:10:40

thing that I think Crystal still did kind

1:10:42

of do right was pick that co star

1:10:44

who kuld have ostensibly taken the range of

1:10:46

the series, who made

1:10:49

I love Phoebe waller Bridge. I'm

1:10:52

not sure that that's

1:10:54

the right actor, and she's good

1:10:56

in this role.

1:10:57

She's good, but it's also like I thought

1:10:59

that was cool aspects there the idea of Helena

1:11:01

kind of being a criminal and stuff and not necessarily

1:11:04

having but it didn't grab me

1:11:06

as a character I wanted to particularly know more

1:11:08

about, or I would have liked to see

1:11:11

a younger, more action focused star.

1:11:13

Ela Balinska, I love you. I'm always trying to get.

1:11:15

These roles, but like someone, I'm just saying,

1:11:18

if you're thinking about making someone who's through

1:11:21

and fifty million dollars back, I want to see someone who's doing

1:11:23

stunts.

1:11:23

If Harrison can't do the stunts, give a young

1:11:25

person. Someone's got to do it. Someone's got

1:11:27

to see it. Someone's got to do a stunt. Please, I just want

1:11:29

to see one stunt. You know. It's

1:11:32

I think, So what do you?

1:11:33

I feel like you made another great point when

1:11:35

you're talking about this like before, which

1:11:38

you kind of were like, I

1:11:40

think it's.

1:11:40

Also about quality. These box office

1:11:42

nus. You know, it's not a good move at

1:11:45

the end of the day. I feel like

1:11:47

that.

1:11:47

I feel like that is really like

1:11:49

a big problem with the Flash. I feel like

1:11:52

if they'd have made a really great movie, even

1:11:54

despite the controversies or the

1:11:57

run time or anything else, people will.

1:11:59

Find it and go to look at something like Elemental

1:12:01

Right.

1:12:02

I have yet to see it, but that Pixar movie

1:12:04

exactly. The movie didn't do well

1:12:06

in its opening round. It was Pixar's

1:12:08

biggest flop, especially if you consider

1:12:11

inflation since you know Toy

1:12:13

Story, which obviously was untested first

1:12:15

movie, so that didn't make a lot of money the way Pixar.

1:12:17

Movies do now.

1:12:18

But every week that

1:12:20

movie has been making money because

1:12:22

it had an A minus cinema

1:12:25

score, I believe, and families are going to see it and

1:12:27

it is still finding an audience.

1:12:28

Now, will it.

1:12:29

Still be a lost leader, maybe,

1:12:32

But I think that the quality of it and the

1:12:34

fact people want to see the film tells you

1:12:36

everything you need to know about it. There's a reason Spider

1:12:38

of Us didn't flop. It was fucking brilliant, Like

1:12:41

I feel like they're too concerned about the IP and

1:12:43

not as concerned about telling a good story.

1:12:46

Yeah, that to me is really when people

1:12:48

talk about IP fatigue

1:12:50

and Indian Jones and the l

1:12:53

of Destiny possibly being an example of

1:12:55

IP fatigue, and you know, you

1:12:57

can point in any number of

1:13:00

of stories about

1:13:03

various Marvel projects franchise fatigt

1:13:05

W franchise fatigue. I think at

1:13:08

the end of the day, it's kind of like

1:13:11

this is dead obvious. And I'm not saying that it's

1:13:13

easy to make something good, but just make

1:13:15

something good like Indiana Jones

1:13:18

and Dald Destiny is a perfectly fine

1:13:20

movie, but it's not like great.

1:13:24

And if you want to make people

1:13:27

sit back in their seats and spend tons

1:13:29

of money and you want to be able to recoup that

1:13:31

three hundred reported three hundred and fifty million dollars

1:13:33

again I don't understand how this possibly could have

1:13:36

cost you, then

1:13:38

your best bet is to come out with

1:13:40

something that's really just gangbusters.

1:13:43

And this is just not It's not so like

1:13:45

when people are like, oh, it's not a hit, it's also not

1:13:47

a great movie.

1:13:48

A great movie.

1:13:49

Yeah, I also think so I think something

1:13:52

that kind of I think about a law as well, is

1:13:54

like why do you make it?

1:13:56

Right? Is it? Because?

1:13:58

So the Flash suffered from that because

1:14:01

it was originally meant to be this like ground Originally

1:14:03

it's a flash movie, then it's a groundbreaking re

1:14:06

purposes of DCU. Then it's not that,

1:14:08

So it loses the why did it get made? And

1:14:10

you don't necessarily get some great

1:14:12

retelling or important new story,

1:14:14

which you know, a lot of what happened in the Flash, as I've

1:14:17

said many times already happened in the CW, like

1:14:19

why did they make it? Indiana Jones

1:14:22

feels like that to me, especially when it's coming from

1:14:24

someone like James Mangold, who you know made

1:14:26

Logan, which is like one of the greatest

1:14:29

comic book movies ever made, a truly great

1:14:31

movie. That's a movie where you

1:14:33

felt like, oh, I need to know this about the

1:14:35

character. I'm so glad I saw this story

1:14:38

this Indiana Jones didn't tell me that. I

1:14:40

didn't know why this needed to be added to

1:14:42

the law. You know. That's where I think people start

1:14:44

to feel like, is it a bit of a cash grab? There's

1:14:47

not necessarily something new. I

1:14:49

also think It's interesting to

1:14:51

try and still be telling a story that

1:14:54

was nostalgic to the men who made it in

1:14:56

the eighties, like Indiana Jones was

1:14:58

pulpy and nostalgic to George

1:15:00

Lucas and Steven Spielberg. They wanted to recreate

1:15:02

a storytelling tradition

1:15:06

that they had enjoyed as children,

1:15:08

and they wanted to bring it back and do their own version.

1:15:11

Do we still need to be trying to tell that story

1:15:13

like fifty years later with no reconsideration.

1:15:17

That's kind of what I was.

1:15:18

Thinking a lot in the movie was

1:15:20

like, how do you tell a cool pulp story

1:15:23

in an unexpected different way.

1:15:25

That's what I think they didn't do with this.

1:15:26

I think they tried to make it too much like the originals,

1:15:29

and instead I think there is a

1:15:31

cool space to tell an Indiana Jones

1:15:34

story that subverts or recontextualizes

1:15:36

or adds to the law, and I don't necessarily

1:15:39

think this did that, and I think people do want that

1:15:41

when they come to an

1:15:44

ip or franchise storytelling.

1:15:48

And then my final thing about why maybe

1:15:50

it doesn't work, I don't know about if

1:15:53

this necessarily led to the to bombing

1:15:56

the way it did. But one of the things that kind

1:15:58

of I could have been better.

1:16:01

We're going to cover the Mission Impossible franchise,

1:16:03

uh, and we're going to cover Mission Impossible

1:16:06

seven. And I

1:16:08

thought one of the things that fall Out twenty eighteen

1:16:10

Fallout did really well that

1:16:13

was

1:16:15

was underline

1:16:18

that Ethan is getting older and

1:16:20

he's not as good as he used to be, and

1:16:23

he can't fight the bad

1:16:25

guys alone anymore. It

1:16:27

takes them a little longer to get up. And

1:16:31

there's some of that with it's

1:16:35

done in a gagway though it's like

1:16:38

his balments.

1:16:39

It's the it's show, don't tell,

1:16:42

And it's also about

1:16:44

what that means for the state of the world if

1:16:46

he can't be the hero we need. What Withindiana

1:16:49

Jones, it's like I'm climbing up a giant

1:16:51

mountain, but my knees are saw.

1:16:53

I gotta take a break now, you know. And

1:16:55

that's really the only moment where you're like,

1:16:58

Okay, he's shown his age,

1:17:00

but like we but calling it out, you're

1:17:03

right, weakens it. And furthermore,

1:17:06

it's not like they avoid the subject of

1:17:08

how old he is, like it's he's

1:17:10

a tire topic, right,

1:17:13

but you never he's still

1:17:15

fighting the Nazis. He's still like climbing

1:17:18

out of windows, he's still leaping onto the back

1:17:20

of a horse. There's which you understand

1:17:22

is a d is a d aged face swapped

1:17:25

thing with a stuntman on the.

1:17:27

Back of that horse, and it's but

1:17:29

you, but there's no show.

1:17:31

It's all hey, you're old now,

1:17:33

Hey old man, Hey, old guy,

1:17:35

Hey, how old are you?

1:17:37

And there's there you're washed did.

1:17:42

But there's no like there's

1:17:44

very rarely Indiana Jones like trying

1:17:47

to catch his breath or being like, I can't get

1:17:49

up, or he's still getting up,

1:17:51

and there's that moment which you mentioned when they're climbing

1:17:53

out.

1:17:53

Of the tomb.

1:17:54

But that's it for the show part

1:17:57

of it, and it and it felt disingenuous

1:17:59

to me and unless they really lean into he's

1:18:01

got the grill juice and they.

1:18:03

Didn't do that because I'm gonna say that

1:18:05

I would. Everybody knows

1:18:07

if you listen to this podcast or you read what I

1:18:10

this stuff that I write whatever I love, like

1:18:12

fun out their stories, so you're you're

1:18:14

rarely gonna hear me say this.

1:18:16

Yeah, But I did.

1:18:17

Feel like, for once this

1:18:19

could have done with being a bit more like grim and

1:18:21

gritty. And I'm like, I say

1:18:24

that, but you know, a tired

1:18:27

his son died, like I want to see how that

1:18:29

impacted him. He's old,

1:18:31

he can't do it the same way I go

1:18:33

on this mission. I feel like there could have been some gravitas.

1:18:36

And grits that we didn't get.

1:18:38

The emotional culmination

1:18:40

of this film for Aniana Jones

1:18:42

is him begging to be

1:18:45

left in ancient Greece where

1:18:47

he got to die like

1:18:49

and that could have really been an emotional

1:18:52

like gut punch. Some

1:18:55

of that feeling of his impending

1:18:57

mortality was was spread

1:19:00

out through the film, but

1:19:02

you really never feel that. You know, you

1:19:04

don't feel that. And I think, and here's another

1:19:07

take the

1:19:09

d aging we talked about Lane

1:19:11

get a younger actor. I think you

1:19:13

could. I think if you didn't do the d aging,

1:19:15

and if you got a younger actor or you just

1:19:17

told the whole story in the present,

1:19:21

then we could have sat with an older

1:19:23

Indian And I really

1:19:25

let that kind of melancholy, that emotional

1:19:28

impact of this guy and

1:19:30

how long is he going to be with us? And how long can he keep

1:19:32

running around and climbing out of tombs

1:19:36

that could have really hit us a little harder,

1:19:38

and I think it's sad that they didn't.

1:19:41

Instead of using

1:19:43

that our natural affinity

1:19:46

for Harrison Ford as

1:19:48

we come towards the end of his career, they

1:19:50

steered away from it, and I thought

1:19:52

that was a mistake. Well, you

1:19:54

know, feel free to see it if you're an Indian Jones

1:19:57

fan. Again, it's not a terrible movie.

1:19:58

It's fine.

1:19:59

I'm sure I will there will be cinemas

1:20:02

that I'm sure will do reruns of all

1:20:04

of them, and I'm sure it will gain a cult following.

1:20:06

Just as Kingdom of Crystal scolded, like,

1:20:08

as you know what these movies they ever flow.

1:20:10

It wasn't the great joyous

1:20:13

send off that I would hope it would be, and I

1:20:15

would get if it was, if I felt like it was for.

1:20:17

A different generation or something.

1:20:18

I actually saw it in an early

1:20:21

bird screening with captions and everyone

1:20:23

in there was like seventy, So it was

1:20:25

fantastic.

1:20:28

For a different generation.

1:20:30

Actually, you're right, But like I don't

1:20:32

feel it didn't hit

1:20:34

with it seems like with a wider audience.

1:20:36

But you know what, I'm sure I'll find some love

1:20:39

and you'll have fun if you watch it, but

1:20:41

it is it's long. It

1:20:43

is quite long. Up next, No Doubt.

1:20:53

In today's nerd Out, where you tell us what you love,

1:20:55

am why, a theory you're excited to share,

1:20:58

or if you have a quick question that we can answer, Cameron

1:21:00

offers a Secret Invasion theory. Hey

1:21:03

guys, Cameron from San Jose here. So

1:21:07

Cameron is about to pose the theory that I think

1:21:09

would make the most sense for the way they go

1:21:11

forward post Secret Invasion.

1:21:13

So Cameron, I'm giving.

1:21:15

I'm saying you should put this on that we were right for

1:21:17

the future. That's what Cameron says,

1:21:19

just so i'd submit my theory. After watching the premiere

1:21:22

of Secret Invasion, after seeing the detainment

1:21:24

system the scrolls are using to trap the humans

1:21:27

that they are imitating, I couldn't help but

1:21:29

think this is how we get Black Widow

1:21:32

back right, question mark. I can just

1:21:34

see the final episode where they're clearing the facility

1:21:36

of human prisoners and they find a room with Scarjo.

1:21:38

I don't know, maybe a pipe dream, but I'm calling it okay.

1:21:41

So I'm going to say, now that we're three episodes

1:21:43

in, I don't think it's going to happen in the show.

1:21:45

But I do think the

1:21:47

future of what they do with

1:21:50

the Scrolls and this technology is used

1:21:53

to bring back Black

1:21:55

Widow.

1:21:56

You know, you could even if you wanted to.

1:21:58

It's like they they say Tony's

1:22:00

body and they,

1:22:03

you know, healed him.

1:22:04

Or something like.

1:22:05

I do think that it will go more

1:22:07

comic book heavy in the future, and

1:22:10

the fact that the Scrolls have this attainment unit

1:22:12

in Secret Invasion, though it is a more grounded

1:22:14

show, will be used as a

1:22:17

mcguffin in the future to reintroduce characters

1:22:19

that have been sorely missed.

1:22:22

I agree, And I will also say in the original

1:22:24

Secret Invasion that

1:22:29

comic book arc was

1:22:31

used to bring back Bobby Morse

1:22:34

Mockingbird, the the you

1:22:36

know, the swashbuckling secret

1:22:39

agent romantic

1:22:41

partner of Hawkey who had passed

1:22:43

away I don't know, twenty

1:22:45

years earlier in real time and was

1:22:48

dead dead, and they used Secret

1:22:50

Invasion to bring her back and say, actually

1:22:53

no, she was in Skull Scroll detainment this

1:22:55

whole time.

1:22:55

So I think, though, yeah, it can absolutely

1:22:58

be.

1:22:58

Done, I think is I think that is gonna to be what

1:23:00

we see? Will it happen with Black Widow?

1:23:02

I don't know.

1:23:03

I think they could want to move back to that more traditional

1:23:05

Avengers team now that that I bet you they

1:23:07

isn't hitting in a certain the same way. But

1:23:11

I think that this is going to happen, whether

1:23:13

it's with Black Widow or other characters. I

1:23:15

think that though this version of Secret Invasion

1:23:18

has not been taken very heavily from

1:23:20

the comics, I think we'll see it used

1:23:23

and seeded as a way to reintroduce

1:23:25

and introduce bigger characters going forward.

1:23:28

Let me ask you this because I think you're

1:23:30

exactly right, and I bet you that some

1:23:33

exects it is near to

1:23:35

creative movers and shakers are saying, can

1:23:38

we get any of that original cast

1:23:41

back?

1:23:41

Yeah?

1:23:44

I think Black Widow is on the table, But

1:23:46

at what point what are the odds

1:23:50

that we get, say cap

1:23:53

or because I think that it could

1:23:56

happen with the multiverse, just go wi

1:23:59

them and get another one.

1:24:01

We're gonna see Steve in the suit again,

1:24:03

no question, in my opinion.

1:24:05

I think I think that's gonna happen.

1:24:07

I think Chris Evans loves the character, I

1:24:10

think the fans love him. Bucky's

1:24:12

still involved, so they can come back and recreate.

1:24:15

I have always been of the belief,

1:24:17

post watching Robert

1:24:21

Downey Junior's Doctor Doolittle movie, that

1:24:24

he will be coming back.

1:24:25

To the MCU.

1:24:26

I do believe it will happen. I

1:24:29

think Tony is a fair bet. I've

1:24:31

always been interested, even from before

1:24:33

Endgame, in the idea of doing like the

1:24:35

young Tony stuff that they did in the comics,

1:24:38

where you could have like a younger Tony come in.

1:24:40

But I think we could see a Robert Downey

1:24:42

Junior cameo or even

1:24:44

with the Scrolls a potential

1:24:47

return. I think it's most

1:24:49

likely to happen in the soon to

1:24:52

be announced renamed

1:24:54

Avengers movie Avengers Versus x Men,

1:24:56

that I'm sure is gonna happen instead of one

1:24:59

of the many Kang films

1:25:01

that were planned. But I think we could

1:25:03

see whenever the X Men Fantastic

1:25:06

four come back, I think they might try

1:25:08

and bring back those original Avengers just

1:25:10

for a little bit, just to make.

1:25:11

Do they do old Cap? Do you think they do old Cap?

1:25:16

Not as not like Joe Biden cap

1:25:19

from the end, but maybe like maybe

1:25:21

like he's like he's kind

1:25:24

of more like a you know, a rogue,

1:25:27

Like he's a bit of a result, a little bit more

1:25:29

of like an old man cap, like how

1:25:31

we would call old Man logan in the comics,

1:25:33

but not.

1:25:33

Like I don't think Joe Biden caps coming back

1:25:35

in that, but not like a shredded comics

1:25:38

old cap. Wait, I think

1:25:40

that you think they do they

1:25:42

can do it.

1:25:42

I think it's going to be like old Man, like old

1:25:45

Man logan or old Man depool or old

1:25:47

man cap. But I would like to see

1:25:49

shredded old cap. Just wait like twenty years

1:25:51

till Chris Evans old and then bring him

1:25:53

back.

1:25:55

Thanks Caaren, of you have theories, passions or quick

1:25:57

questions you want to share, hit u up at x ray at

1:25:59

Crooked dut calm instructions in the show notes.

1:26:03

Well that's it for us. Any plugs, Rosie.

1:26:06

Yes, I will be at San Diego

1:26:08

Comic Con this year if

1:26:13

you want to be, If you want to come and see me, I'll

1:26:15

be moderating two really cool panels for webtoon

1:26:18

on Thursday morning and Friday

1:26:21

morning. I should I may be

1:26:23

announcing something very cool and unexpected,

1:26:26

even unexpected to me on Saturday,

1:26:28

but we have to wait and see if that's gonna happen.

1:26:30

So I'll be in San Diego, so as always,

1:26:33

you can spot where I am on Instagram, Rosie

1:26:35

marks and come and say hi to me.

1:26:37

I'll have scenes and cool stuff.

1:26:42

Catch the next episode of Xtra Vision

1:26:45

on Friday, July fourteenth, where we'll be covering

1:26:47

episodes three and four of Secret.

1:26:48

Division, and you can watch four

1:26:50

episodes of the podcast on YouTube. Check

1:26:53

us out on Twitter at xrvpod and

1:26:55

join our discord where the link will be in

1:26:57

the show notes so you can hang out with a bunch of cool fans.

1:27:00

I'm me and Jason all Right. Star ratings, five

1:27:02

star reviews. We gotta

1:27:04

give him to us.

1:27:05

Here's one from mal rat forty two one

1:27:07

of my favorites. My only complaint is that Jason

1:27:09

and Rosie don't cover literally everything I could

1:27:11

see, so I guess my real complaint is that the multiverse

1:27:14

doesn't actually exist, but that isn't their fault.

1:27:17

Thank you so much for forty two. Xtra

1:27:19

Vision is a Crooked Media production.

1:27:21

The show is produced by Chris Lord and Saul Rubin and

1:27:23

executive produced by me Jason Concepci,

1:27:25

and our editing and sound design is by Viscillis

1:27:27

Fatopoulos. Video Production by

1:27:29

Delon Villanueva and Rachel Gaieski.

1:27:31

Social Media by Awa Oklatti and

1:27:34

Caroline Dunfey.

1:27:35

Thank you to Brian Basquez for a theme you say, see

1:27:38

you next Time.