Cardinal George Pell, Archbishop of Sydney, and atheist Dan Barker debated the topic: Without God We Are Nothing, at Macquarie University. A vigorous and lively debate was had, with over 300 people in attendance. The debate was structured so that each speaker received ten minutes to present their case, then had a chance at rebuttal, and finishing off with a few minutes to directly cross examine the other. There was then time for questions from the audience. Part 1 of this audio presents the main arguments and rebuttal, with part 2 presenting the (very lively) cross examination, and some hard hitting questions from the audience.