0:00

You and Me Both is a production of

0:02

I Heart Radio. I'm

0:05

Hillary Clinton and this is You

0:08

and Me Both, and welcome to

0:10

the other side of this election.

0:14

I don't know about you, but, boy, since

0:17

Joe Biden and Kamala Harris

0:19

were elected, I've gotten so many

0:21

texts and emails and phone calls

0:23

that are full of joy and hope

0:26

and just good old fashioned relief.

0:29

You know, there's a lot to try to figure out

0:31

about this election. Who turned

0:33

out in record numbers, where

0:35

what they had to overcome to do that, really

0:38

what all of it means for our

0:40

president elect and for our democracy.

0:43

So for help trying to figure it out, I'm

0:46

checking in with three fantastic

0:49

guests today. We have Ari Berman,

0:51

a journalist who has written extensively

0:53

about voting rights and voter suppression

0:56

in this country. We'll also here

0:58

from journalists Solida O'Brien,

1:00

who has a really focused

1:03

view of what the press has

1:05

to do better in order to cover

1:07

politics and elections.

1:10

But first, I wanted to check in with someone who's

1:12

getting a lot of much deserved gratitude

1:14

right now for her role in Georgia,

1:17

Stacy Abrams. You

1:20

may remember that Stacy ran for governor

1:22

in eighteen. I think it's

1:24

absolutely fair to say that the

1:27

election was taken from

1:29

her because of all the shenanigans

1:31

to prevent people from registering,

1:33

prevent them from voting, make voting really

1:35

difficult. But she never quit.

1:38

She just went back to work organizing

1:41

and speaking out about

1:44

what needs to be done to help

1:46

our democracy thrive. And while

1:48

we saw it in action as Georgia

1:51

turned blue, I

1:54

just want to add my voice

1:56

to the chorus and say thank you,

1:59

thank you, thank you, not just

2:01

for coming back on the podcast post

2:04

election, but for everything you

2:06

did to help Georgia

2:08

turn blue and help so

2:10

many people across the country have

2:13

the energy to keep going. So

2:15

on a scale of like one to ten, Stacy,

2:18

how excited are you, I believe infinity

2:21

is a number technically. I

2:23

mean, look this, this is extraordinary. It's

2:25

as you know, it's been a project I've been working

2:28

on for a decade with so many

2:30

other folks, really trying

2:32

to build an infrastructure, raise the resources,

2:35

and make certain that people did the

2:37

investment. We have been able to

2:40

finally bring all those pieces together. And I

2:42

do not believe there's a new Americal scale. Hallellujah,

2:45

exactly Hallelujah. When I

2:47

think about the work that went into

2:49

it, I have to just pause

2:52

and say, this was truly

2:54

an act of faith. You believed in

2:57

the potential for George

3:00

to have an election that would

3:02

empower people to vote, that would

3:04

give them a stake in their vote,

3:07

and it's so exciting

3:10

to see all that hard work

3:12

pay off. What were some

3:15

of the reasons why decades

3:17

ago you started thinking about this

3:19

and then you know, moving forward

3:22

made it a real priority. Well, as

3:24

you know, I am a daughter of the South. I

3:26

was born in Wisconsin, but I grew up in Mississippi.

3:28

I came of age in Georgia. I went to grad school

3:31

in Texas, went to law school at our alma

3:33

mater in the northeast at Yale. I

3:35

came back South as soon as seemingly possible because I don't

3:37

like cold weather. And when

3:39

I got back to Georgia, we were going

3:41

through both of political realignment

3:44

with Republicans taking over, but we were

3:46

also going through a demographic realignment that

3:48

was just taking off. And by the

3:50

time I joined the legislature in two thousand and

3:52

six, when I became leader in I

3:55

was deeply aware of

3:57

the possibilities but also the obstacle.

4:00

And so I actually put together a twenty one

4:02

page deck when I became leader,

4:04

where I laid out, here's the growth strategy for

4:06

Georgia Democrats from and

4:10

I would take that deck with me, and I paid for

4:12

my plane ticket and went to see investors

4:14

around the country who weren't going to give us no money.

4:16

But I'm like, look, you're not gonna give me anything now, but I

4:18

want to introduce myself and tell you about my plan.

4:21

So when I come back, you'll do it. And

4:23

I did it again and again, and and I want

4:25

to give credit to so many other people who did

4:27

this work. I think that the distinction

4:29

was that for me, it was about thinking

4:31

about how do you build the infrastructure. So it didn't

4:34

matter who the candidate was, It didn't matter who

4:36

was doing the work, as long as there was a structure

4:39

so people could pour in and we had the

4:41

money we needed. And so over time

4:43

we were able to raise millions

4:46

of dollars. And I've become a really

4:48

good beggar, and we've

4:50

been able to raise money for voter registration, for

4:52

voter engagement, for voter

4:54

turnout, but also training

4:57

and recruiting young people to become involved

4:59

in the party, building policy potential,

5:02

thinking about the holistic notion of what it

5:04

means to be a Democrat, not just winning elections,

5:07

but how do you win hearts, minds,

5:09

and how do you build sustainability. So

5:11

it doesn't matter who's doing it, all of

5:13

us are moving in the same direction, and it came to fruition

5:16

in this election. But we can't forget

5:18

that George has got two really important

5:20

consequential Senate races coming up.

5:22

They've gone to a runoff, and this election

5:25

will be held in January, and actually

5:28

it's going to determine whether President

5:31

elect Biden will as president

5:34

have a majority in the Senate

5:36

so that they can get things done

5:38

that will actually improve people's lives.

5:41

Tell us about those two races. What can

5:43

our listeners do to help

5:45

the candidates win. Be part of continuing

5:49

the Georgia movement that works

5:51

so well in the presidential

5:54

election and actually helped

5:56

to propel both of our candidates into

5:58

a runoff. I privileged

6:00

to be friends with both candidates. John Assoff,

6:03

who is in the race against

6:05

David Purdue, who has

6:07

just proven himself to be corrupt both

6:09

intellectually and economically,

6:12

someone who put his profits above the lives of

6:14

people. Q and on Kelly Leffler,

6:16

who has decided to abandon all principles

6:19

and side with conspiracy theorists, and who also

6:22

decided that money was more important than

6:24

the mission she was supposed to have, which is serving Georgians.

6:27

She is running against Raffael Warnock, the pastor

6:29

of ebenez Or Baptist Church. Reverend Warnock

6:32

and I've been friends for fifteen years and

6:34

he was actually one of my partners

6:36

in the New Georgia product when we started registering

6:38

voters. Those two races are

6:41

both essential in their own right,

6:43

and they are working together, which

6:46

is so critical. So the three things that need folks

6:48

to do. One go to g a Senate dot

6:50

Com. That way you can contribute

6:52

to both candidates and to the work we're doing. The

6:54

Fair Fight to protect the vote. Republicans

6:56

noticed that we had an incredible infrastructure

6:59

for oor turn out and for getting those ballots

7:02

in. I have no reason to believe

7:04

they're going to let it continue the way it

7:06

is, so we need the resources so we can fight back

7:08

and protect the right to vote. Number two

7:10

to fair Fight Action dot Com, you

7:13

can sign up to be

7:15

a volunteer. We will help deploy you and

7:17

direct you. Yes, we need everyone's

7:19

help. Not everyone needs to come to Georgia,

7:21

but everyone needs to pour into Georgia,

7:23

and so we'll be able to connect you to volunteer opportunities.

7:26

And the number three, reach out to anyone

7:29

you know who is in Georgia, near Georgia, bin to Georgia,

7:31

can spell Georgia and just

7:33

let them know how important is election

7:36

is. We have

7:38

the chance to fix America.

7:40

Yeah, just a small, you know,

7:42

step in the development of mankind

7:45

and womankind. We can fix Georgia.

7:48

We can fix and we can fix America. Look, we can

7:50

have access to healthcare, access

7:52

to justice, and access to jobs.

7:54

Those are the three things that are most essential. These

7:57

are the two men who will get

7:59

it done if we do our part and we don't

8:01

relax, we don't relent, and we do

8:04

everything we can to push them over the

8:06

finish line. On January, Well, I think

8:08

all of us are going to be following your

8:10

lead once again, because we have, you

8:13

know, a few short weeks to

8:15

try to continue this

8:17

positive movement that Georgia

8:19

has demonstrated. You know, Stacy, I know

8:22

how busy you are you've been, you know, rallying

8:24

the troops, thanking people for everything

8:26

that they've done. Have you had a minute

8:29

just to sit back and take it in,

8:31

put your feet up, relax at all?

8:33

I think I have like fourteen minutes on Sunday.

8:38

But look, we got some work

8:40

to do. We got work to

8:42

do. You're a woman after my own heart. Stacy

8:44

Abrahams love you so much. Thank

8:46

you for everything. Thank you, Secretary.

8:54

As we heard from Stacy, our works

8:57

not done yet, and all

8:59

eyes are on Georgia. So if

9:01

you want to pitch in visit elect

9:03

John that's j O N dot

9:05

com. That's j o N dot

9:08

com. And Warnock for Georgia

9:10

dot com. That's Warnock w

9:13

A R N O c K. You've

9:17

probably seen Ari Berman on

9:20

MSNBC, or maybe you've

9:22

heard his voice on NPR or read

9:24

his writings and Mother Jones and other publications,

9:28

because he is a senior reporter for

9:30

Mother Jones and the author of the book

9:32

Give Us the Ballot, The Modern

9:35

Struggle for Voting Rights in America.

9:38

Ari Berman, Hey, Secretary Clinton,

9:40

good to see you. I am so happy

9:43

to speak with you. You may not

9:45

be a household name in many

9:48

households in America, but you are in mine, and

9:51

I want our listeners to know

9:53

that you have been on the front lines

9:56

of journalism about

9:58

our elections and b pticularly about

10:01

the challenges to voting, voter suppression

10:04

tricks and Shenanigan's to keep

10:06

people from voting, and you

10:08

have a unique position from which to

10:10

view what we have just experienced.

10:13

And when I thought about who I wanted to talk to

10:15

after the election, your name was

10:17

at the top of the list. How how

10:19

have you spent the past week since

10:21

the election? You know, it feels like just

10:23

yesterday but also a lifetime ago.

10:26

Well, thank you so much, Secretary Clinton. And it's

10:28

a real honor to be able to have

10:30

this conversation with you, especially now.

10:32

And when I think of the people that I wanted to

10:34

talk to after the election, you

10:37

are at the top of my list. So I'm really

10:39

glad that we got to do this. So, I mean,

10:41

on the one hand, it was a really chaotic

10:44

and to the election, but on the other hand,

10:46

it was a really successful and to the

10:48

election when you think about it, because there

10:51

were unprecedented threats to voting

10:53

in this election. There were so many questions

10:56

about would people be able to vote,

10:58

would their votes be counted, And

11:01

we saw that people turned out in record

11:03

numbers, that their votes were counted.

11:06

That yes, it took a few days too

11:08

for all the votes to be counted, and some of the votes

11:10

are still being counted. But the process worked,

11:13

The system worked. It was a legitimate

11:15

election that people came out, they

11:17

voted, their votes were counted, and

11:19

ultimately they changed the

11:21

direction of this country. And so I know there's a lot of disinformation,

11:24

there's a lot of noise, but from my standpoint,

11:27

there were so many nightmare scenarios

11:29

that I had about how this election played

11:31

out, and for it to be basically over

11:34

by Saturday morning was, from

11:36

my standpoint, a huge success. I

11:39

agree with that, Ari, and a couple

11:41

of my takeaways that I wanted to run

11:44

by you are that the

11:46

election itself worked in

11:48

part because people

11:51

actually got to cast their votes.

11:54

The kind of suppression

11:56

tactic that we saw a lot of in twenty

12:00

eighteen where people were literally disenfranchised,

12:03

you know, they were not allowed to register. They

12:05

were allowed to register, but then when they showed up,

12:07

they were turned away because of you know,

12:09

some alleged problem with their I d

12:12

and I think we learned a lot from eighteen

12:16

and we also were advantaged by having

12:18

democratic office holders, for example

12:21

in Wisconsin and Michigan,

12:23

and bright spotlights on the

12:26

office holders in Georgia and Arizona.

12:29

So we learned that pre

12:32

voting suppression is actually

12:34

a more terrible successful

12:37

tactic than trying to mess with

12:39

the actual votes. And I'm really encouraged

12:41

by that. Yeah, I think they're absolutely right.

12:44

I mean, one of the things that happened in when

12:46

you were running was a lot of the suppression

12:48

was in back rooms and people didn't

12:51

know about it. So it was the first

12:53

presidential election fifty years without

12:55

the full protections of the Voting Rights Act.

12:57

Because the Supreme Court got to the Voting Rights Act into

13:00

thirteen, it said that states of the long history

13:02

of discrimination didn't have to approve their voting changes

13:04

with the federal government. So that allowed new suppression

13:06

efforts in the South and the West, and then you had states in the

13:08

north like Wisconsin, passing

13:11

new suppression efforts as well. But it

13:13

didn't really get any coverage, and

13:15

it was such a different story in I

13:18

can't tell you the number of people that told me the

13:20

day after the election, I

13:22

finally understand what you're writing

13:24

about exactly. And I think

13:26

there really was a realization we're not going

13:28

to allow history to repeat itself.

13:31

And then the fact that Trump was so open about

13:33

what he was doing, the fact that he said, if

13:35

you made it easier to vote, a Republican would never

13:37

be elected again. The fact that he said he didn't want

13:39

to fund the Post Office because he didn't want to expand mail

13:41

voting, the fact that he said we're going to send the lawyers

13:44

in right after the election. All of that made

13:46

people aware there's an attempt to try

13:48

to prevent you from voting, so do everything

13:50

you can, everything you absolutely can

13:52

to make sure your vote is counted. So we had the kind of movement

13:55

against suppression in that was

13:57

missing. Unfortunately. You

13:59

know, I know we don't have a lot of data yet.

14:01

I've been searching for it myself. But

14:04

do you have some preliminary information

14:06

about how the vote broke down, who

14:09

turned out, where they turned out, anything

14:11

you can share with us. Well, I think George is

14:13

a great example. I mean, it seemed like

14:16

black voters in Georgia really

14:18

propelled Joe Biden into what looks like

14:20

a likely victory in that state. And

14:22

I'm really glad you brought that up because there

14:25

was so much suppression in Georgia, where you actually

14:27

had the Secretary of State Brian kept

14:29

also running for government and putting

14:31

in place all of these policies, whether

14:34

it's making it more difficult to vote, or closing polling

14:36

places or falsely accusing Democrats of hacking

14:39

the election that really kept

14:41

Stacy Abrams from being the

14:43

first black woman governor in US

14:45

history. Then you had the primaries in

14:48

Georgia back in June where people

14:50

were still voting at twelve thirty am

14:52

at night. And I think the pandemic really

14:54

exposed a lot of this suppression. Because you're right, it

14:56

got a little bit of attention in it

14:59

got more mention. But

15:01

I think the fact that you saw those lines

15:03

in Milwaukee in April, when there

15:05

were only five polling places instead of eighty,

15:08

and you had people holding signs in line, that says this is

15:10

ridiculous. People were so much more aware

15:13

of the problems with our voting system and so

15:15

they were willing to wait in eleven hour

15:17

lines to be able to vote. They dropped

15:19

their ballots off because they didn't trust the post

15:21

office. They turned out on record numbers early,

15:24

so there wouldn't be problems on election day. And I

15:26

think all of that, the fact that there were so many

15:28

organizations helping people vote, but also

15:30

that voters themselves really listened

15:32

and made a plan. When Michelle Obama said make

15:35

a plan, people made a plan. And

15:37

I think that's why we had, in a lot of

15:39

ways, a more successful election than

15:42

some of us were maybe preparing for. You

15:44

know, a lot of political analysis,

15:47

frankly endless political analysis

15:49

and journalistic reporting, you

15:51

know, focused on the white

15:53

working class. That's the demographic

15:56

that so many people after the election

16:00

and we're trying to understand and trying to,

16:02

you know, give a voice to But

16:05

if you look at what happened

16:08

in Wisconsin and Michigan

16:10

and Pennsylvania, it

16:13

was the black community that turned

16:15

out that wasn't suppressed

16:17

the way that it had been in sixteen.

16:21

They really overcame what

16:23

had been real barriers. And I

16:26

think you know, you have written about

16:28

that how they helped Biden win

16:30

Wisconsin, and also I would argue Michigan

16:33

and Pennsylvania. Yeah, that's absolutely

16:35

right. I mean, Biden didn't win because of white

16:37

voters. If if this

16:39

election was the side of my people like you and me, Donald

16:42

Trump would have had a second term. And so it

16:45

absolutely was Black voters in

16:47

Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan.

16:49

It was Latino voters in Nevada

16:52

and Arizona. It was Native American voters

16:55

in Arizona. I mean, these are the groups

16:57

that turned out in record numbers and turned out for

17:00

Joe Biden. A lot of people learned from

17:03

I mean, take Wisconsin. There was

17:05

really no organizing going on in the black

17:07

community in Milwaukee in to

17:09

try to help people vote. There just wasn't the kind

17:11

of energy on the ground in terms

17:13

of organizing. And I think people realize, we

17:16

can't let this happen again. We have to invest

17:18

in these communities if we want

17:20

to have the kind of turnout we need. And so there

17:22

was a lot more resources invested

17:25

and a lot more community groups working in

17:27

places like Milwaukee. People were very,

17:29

very resilient that that was not going to happen again,

17:31

that the votes that were being targeted for

17:34

suppression ended up being the votes that made

17:36

the difference for Joe Biden in this election.

17:39

We'll be right back. You

17:42

know, I loved your tweet on November

17:44

the six where you said black voters

17:46

in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Georgia, and Latino

17:49

voters in Arizona, Nevada ended

17:52

the Trump presidency. Muslim

17:54

and Arab voters also made

17:56

a big difference in states like Michigan, Georgia,

17:59

and Arizona. You're the first person that

18:01

I saw say that. Can you explain it?

18:03

Yeah, Well, I'm just thinking about all these different

18:05

demographics. And there was so much

18:08

attention on the white working class

18:10

vote in the aftermath of the election, even into the

18:12

run up of the whole question

18:14

was you know what what you

18:18

another guy in a mega hat? I

18:20

mean really, I mean the New York Times

18:22

did a story about white

18:24

voters in suburban Atlanta, and

18:27

they were actually quoting officials from the Republican

18:30

Party as those white

18:32

voters. And now they weren't spending any time

18:34

talking to Muslim and Air voters

18:36

in Dearborn, Michigan, or talking

18:38

to Native American voters in

18:41

Navajo Nation, or talking to black

18:43

voters in Milwaukee. And these are the people that made the difference.

18:45

These are also a lot of the communities that have been hit hardest

18:48

by COVID and so just

18:50

to think about you know, Navajo Nation, which voted

18:54

for Joe Biden, the the amount of death

18:56

and hardship that's happened there, And I really

18:58

think for these unees it really was

19:01

life and death. I think for some people

19:04

it was just an election, but for others

19:06

it was life and death. And I think the stakes were raised

19:09

for the communities that were targeted by

19:11

suppression, that were hit hardest by

19:13

COVID, that have had their economies decimated,

19:15

the election meant more to them. And I

19:17

think there's a reason why they turned out in such high

19:19

numbers, and I think there's a reason why they made such a big difference

19:22

in the outcome. I want to ask you

19:24

about the path ahead because you

19:27

started using the term a couple

19:29

of years ago in your writing about

19:31

the Roberts Court gutting the Voting Rights

19:33

Act, the unleashing

19:36

of voter suppression tactics in

19:38

a lot of states following that, and describing

19:41

the people who were trying to turn

19:43

the clock back as counter revolutionaries.

19:46

That has always stuck with me, Ari, because

19:49

you know, a lot of people understandably

19:51

are slowly looking at what

19:53

happened with the Voting Rights Act being

19:56

gutted. With Citizens United, I

19:58

was also the first candidate to run with since

20:00

united in full force,

20:03

and how much more work it takes to overcome

20:07

a counter revolution. Can you say a

20:09

little bit about your perception

20:11

of where we are right now with the forces

20:14

that are not going to sit silently by.

20:16

They are persistent, if nothing else. Lindsey

20:18

Graham, who I don't know what's happened

20:20

to him, said, you know just the other day

20:23

that you know, if if people

20:25

keep voting, Republicans will never win. I mean,

20:27

what an admission of exactly what

20:29

they're afraid of. Yeah, I think I think that's

20:31

absolutely right. I mean, I don't think we should

20:34

believe that because people turned out in record

20:36

numbers these barriers didn't exist. I

20:38

mean, people turned out despite the

20:40

fact the Voting Rights Act was got it. People turned

20:42

out despite the fact that the Post office was

20:44

sabotage. People turned out despite the fact

20:47

that polling places were closed and

20:49

people were turned away from the voting roles

20:51

and they had to wait eleven hours

20:53

to vote. I mean, people overcame

20:55

these barriers, but it took a massive, massive effort

20:58

to overcome them, and we still have those

21:00

counter revolutionaries that are opposed

21:02

to voting rights in some very powerful

21:04

positions. We now not only have a

21:06

five to four court, we have a six to three chord

21:09

that leads to the right. And so

21:12

that is not good news for voting rights

21:14

and that is going to be a very very difficult thing

21:17

to navigate going forward. And I'm

21:19

very concerned that they're going to further weaken

21:21

the Voting Rights Act and they're going to further

21:23

chip away at our democracy. As

21:25

of now, Mitch McConnell is still in control

21:28

of the Senate. That is going to make it very

21:30

difficult to pass legislation to restore

21:32

the Voting Rights Act or to make it easier

21:35

to vote. Republicans are still in control

21:37

at the state level of states like Wisconsin,

21:39

of states like Pennsylvania. Some of

21:41

these states have democratic governors. Some places

21:44

like Texas and Florida do not. They

21:46

have one party control heading into redistricting

21:50

one which means they could draw even more

21:52

egregious maps for the next decade.

21:54

So the fight for democracy is not over.

21:56

I really really think this is important that people not get

21:58

complacent just because Joe Biden one

22:01

that is one very very very important

22:03

accomplishment. I mean, Joe Biden may have

22:05

literally saved American democracy by

22:08

becoming elected president, because who knows

22:10

what would have happened under four more years of Donald Trump.

22:12

He doesn't control the Supreme Court, he doesn't

22:15

control the U. S. Senate, he doesn't control

22:17

many of the states, or his allies don't control

22:20

many of the states. And so all

22:22

of those threats of democracy still exist,

22:24

and we shouldn't ignore them just because

22:26

Biden was elected. I already worry

22:28

that we're having the totally wrong conversation

22:31

after the election, because we're already in this place

22:33

where Republicans are talking over and

22:35

over about massive irregularities,

22:37

and then now people are trying to say, disprove

22:39

them right, and and it's almost like you're

22:41

trying to disprove something that doesn't exist,

22:44

as opposed to saying, this was not an election

22:46

that we should repeat, we should not exactly again,

22:49

we should not have these kind of barriers in front

22:51

of voters again. And what are we doing to make

22:53

sure that these barriers don't exist?

22:55

And and I worry that all of this talk

22:57

of de legitimizing the election all

23:00

it's not going to change the outcome, and

23:02

it's not going to prevent Biden from being elected.

23:04

I do worry it's going to lead Republicans

23:07

to double down on the voter suppression

23:10

effort based on falsehoods

23:12

and imaginary conspiracy theories. But they're going to convince

23:15

themselves. Either they're gonna believe it, or

23:17

they're going to be political opportunists, and they're gonna say,

23:19

look at all the irregularities in Detroit

23:22

or Milwaukee or Philly, and

23:24

because of that, we have to institute even more barriers

23:27

to prevent people from voting, as opposed to tearing those

23:29

barriers down. It's so ridiculous. We've

23:31

done study after study and by conservative,

23:34

by liberal, by right, by left, by all kinds

23:36

of think tanks, and there is very

23:38

little fraud when it comes to the

23:41

voter. I think there's a lot of fraud

23:43

when it comes to the people setting up the elections

23:45

and running them, as we have

23:47

unfortunately seen. But I take

23:50

exactly what you're saying. You know,

23:52

it will be difficult for a

23:54

President Biden to do much

23:57

from the national level, with Mitch McConnell

23:59

still, you know, standing in the way of everything

24:02

that needs to be done, and

24:04

it will be quite a challenge

24:06

to get the Supreme Court to care

24:09

about any of these issues. So I

24:11

think we're going to have to have a state and local

24:14

bottoms up kind of strategy, similar

24:16

to the litigation that Mark Elias

24:18

and others have been bringing to try to, you

24:21

know, get into state courts, get into

24:23

state constitutions, get into state

24:25

laws, try to fix the you

24:28

know, the problems at the state and local

24:30

level. Do you agree with that? I do agree with that, and

24:32

I think there are some states that are are really positive

24:35

models. You look at Virginia, for example,

24:37

when Democrats finally got control

24:40

of both the governorship and the legislature

24:42

of Virginia, they very very rapidly instituted

24:44

policies that made it easier to vote. So Virginia

24:47

had forty five days of early voting this year.

24:49

For example, they got rid

24:51

of the need to have a witness

24:53

signature on your absolute ballot, which was very confusing

24:56

to people. They repealed the state's

24:58

photo ide law. They did all of these things to make it

25:00

easier to vote, and there is record turn

25:02

out in Virginia, and voting went very smoothly

25:04

in Virginia. Didn't hear any real problems other

25:07

than long lines, which was due to high turnout

25:09

at the beginning of the election. And so I

25:11

do think that that's really important. And I do

25:13

think that there's going to be some places where we're going to see

25:16

the kind of changes we need. In Michigan,

25:18

for example, they're going to have an independent Registring

25:20

Commission, so they're not gonna

25:23

have the kind of jerrymandering that you see in

25:25

the past decade. But in states where

25:27

Republicans are in control, this is gonna be a

25:29

long battle. And I think people

25:31

have to draw the lesson that Stacy

25:33

Abrams did after, which is that

25:36

just because you lose an election, you don't

25:38

stop organizing. Exactly, Well,

25:41

I can't have a conversation with

25:43

you without mentioning the

25:45

electoral college. You know, on

25:48

Thursday November five, two days after the election,

25:50

you wrote truly insane that we're

25:52

obsessing over votes in

25:54

Georgia when Biden is leading by four

25:57

million votes nationwide. Now

25:59

that's a refle election about how the

26:01

electoral college distorts our democratic

26:04

process. Now, even

26:06

though it's unlikely, do you think

26:09

that there's any chance that

26:11

we could change or even abolish

26:13

the electoral college so that our elections

26:16

for president reflected our elections

26:18

for everybody else, the person with the most votes.

26:20

And obviously I take this personally becomes

26:22

the person who's elected. I mean, I would

26:24

hope. So it was really crazy

26:27

on an election night around eleven

26:29

PM, when everyone was biding their teeth

26:32

and wondering what was going to happen in all of these states.

26:34

Biden pulled ahead in the popular vote,

26:37

and you just knew his lead was going to grow

26:39

and grow and grow, and and because states

26:41

like California and New York and Illinois

26:44

are becoming even bluer because

26:46

Democrats are turning out even more votes in Texas,

26:48

you knew that his margin was going to be four

26:51

or five it could be six million votes while

26:53

it's over. And when we spent so much time obsessing

26:56

over polls in the run up to the election, it was

26:58

always clear there was never any doubt

27:00

that Biden was going to win the popular vote, just like there

27:02

was never any doubt that you were going to win the popular

27:04

vote, and your election was not a particularly close

27:06

election if you look at

27:09

at the popular vote, and and same with this election.

27:11

And then this kept going on for days,

27:13

right where we're talking about ten thousand vote

27:15

margins and states, and we were wondering

27:18

what was going to happen with the latest batch of results

27:20

from Maricopa County when meanwhile,

27:23

this popular vote number went from one million

27:25

to two million, to three million to four million. And so I

27:28

don't think the message from the election it should be, Oh,

27:30

the electoral college works. I

27:32

don't get rid of it because there

27:34

was still an election that was decided by five or

27:36

six states, and so many votes

27:39

don't count. And so I think the quickest

27:41

way to get rid of the electoral college would be for states

27:43

to join the Interstate Popular Vote Compact,

27:45

which basically says they will pledge their electors

27:48

to the winner of the popular vote nationwide.

27:50

Because you don't need legislation

27:52

to do that, you just need states to sign on

27:55

to it. And did in Colorado. Just Colorado

27:57

just did that, exactly, just did that. The longer route,

27:59

obviously, would be a constitutional amendment. It's not going to

28:01

happen. It's not gonna happen any anytime soon. But the

28:03

funny thing is, I don't really understand why

28:05

Republicans are so invested in

28:07

the electoral college when so many of their voters

28:10

are frozen out too. I mean, if you're a Republican

28:12

in California or New York, your vote

28:14

really doesn't matter either when it comes to presidential

28:17

elections, you don't really have any sort

28:19

of saying. So basically, if if you

28:21

live in thirty five states of the country, it's very,

28:23

very unlikely that a presidential candidate's

28:25

ever going to visit your state. And we

28:28

had a broader map this year in

28:30

the sense that Georgia wasn't play in Texas,

28:32

was Arizona,

28:35

but it wasn't a broad map. It was still ten

28:37

states, right, And so I

28:39

mean, you know how it is being in New York. I mean, people

28:41

come here to ask for money, but

28:43

nobody ever comes to ask for our votes. And

28:46

same with California. Same if you

28:48

live in Texas for the most part. And

28:51

I just think that it's really really difficult to reconcile

28:54

the electoral college with any kind of

28:56

core democratic principles. I want

28:58

to ask you a kind of question

29:00

about Trump. He has done his best

29:02

and will continue aidan and embedded by

29:05

his allies to undermine the legitimacy

29:07

of this election. What

29:10

happens if he not only doesn't

29:12

concede, which I don't think he will frankly,

29:15

but tries to throw all kinds

29:18

of roadblocks into the

29:20

transition. He already has directed

29:22

his officials not to cooperate

29:24

with the Biden transition, which is a first,

29:27

because you know, once the election is over,

29:29

you're supposed to start cooperating so the

29:31

incoming administration can get prepared.

29:34

So what happens He refuses to concede,

29:36

and and then what ari Well, the good

29:38

news is that the president doesn't really have any

29:40

authority over how votes

29:42

are counted and how votes are certified,

29:45

so there's really not a whole lot he can do

29:47

except complaint. They're filing all

29:49

of these lawsuits, but they're not really amounting anything.

29:51

There's no evidence it's based on,

29:54

and all the votes have basically already been counted

29:56

already. So right now we're in the process of finishing

29:59

the vote counts and all of these states there there might

30:01

be a recount in Georgia, but nothing's

30:03

going to take that long. Then those votes

30:05

are going to be certified by state and

30:07

local authorities pretty quickly. Some states

30:09

it takes a week, some states stakes two weeks, some states

30:11

it takes three weeks. So that's gonna happen

30:13

relatively soon. Then electors

30:16

are going to be pledged in December.

30:18

December fourteenth is the date that electors are

30:20

pledged, and I'm anticipating everything

30:22

is going to be done by then, because we're

30:25

not in a Bush two thousand situation.

30:27

This is not a seven vote election.

30:30

The closest state right now is ten thousand votes

30:32

in Georgia, and litigation rarely,

30:34

if ever, changes a margin that big.

30:37

Then once the electors are are nominated,

30:40

Congress is going to certify that result

30:42

in early January, and Joe Biden

30:44

is going to be the next president. So I think they're

30:47

trying to slow the process down. And obviously you're trying

30:49

to raise doubts about the process,

30:51

but Trump doesn't actually control any aspect

30:53

of that process, from the counting to the certification

30:56

to what Congress does. Now, his allies, I'm sure

30:59

are going to raise a state inc but I anticipate

31:01

this process will play out

31:04

as past processes do. And I'm sure

31:06

you know, I mean, other than yourself, Joe

31:08

Biden is probably the most prepared person to

31:10

ever become president. So I mean, even if

31:12

the Trump campaigns not cooperating with them, I'm

31:14

pretty sure they know what to do in terms of a presidential

31:16

transition, right, I mean, I agree right

31:19

either way that he's going to be prepared to become president

31:21

on January. Do you have any

31:23

you know, final words about what you

31:25

think listeners should be focused on

31:28

as we go through a lame duck

31:30

session, as we have a president

31:32

who continues to undermine

31:34

the legitimacy of our elections,

31:36

and then when we get a new president, how we

31:38

should be thinking about our democracy.

31:41

Yeah. I would urge people to

31:43

keep their eyes on the price. As John

31:46

Lewis said, I mean, there's gonna be a lot of disinformation

31:49

out there. I don't think we need to relitigate

31:52

the outcome of the election.

31:55

I think we just need to emphasize people

31:57

voted in record numbers, their votes

31:59

were counted, the system worked, there

32:01

were no irregularities, And I

32:03

don't think it's particularly productive to

32:06

try to tweet back at Donald

32:08

Trump anymore about what he's saying.

32:10

I think it's time to move on and start to focus

32:13

on the real solutions to our

32:15

democracy. And that's how do we rebuild

32:17

our democracy, not just after four

32:19

years of Donald Trump, but after all of the attacks

32:21

that have come from Republican controlled

32:24

states, after the gutting of the Voting Rights

32:26

Act. What is a real democracy

32:28

reform agenda look like? And

32:31

Joe Biden is going to be able to do some of that, right.

32:33

Bill Barr is not going to be Attorney General, and

32:37

there's gonna be a lot of stuff that they can do on

32:39

an executive level to try to help

32:41

people vote and rebuild our democracy.

32:44

But we also need different people in

32:46

control of the U. S. Senate if we're going to

32:48

restore the Voting Rights Act. We also need

32:50

different people in control of states or

32:52

different outcomes and states if we want to prevent another

32:55

decade of Republican gerrymandering.

32:58

And we need to you is the momentum

33:00

that we saw at the national level, at

33:02

the state and local level, because if there's

33:04

gridlock in Washington, then the

33:07

state's really become a lot of the laboratories

33:10

for a change. So so I would just urge people

33:12

to think that this is a huge victory,

33:14

but it's just one step in the process, and

33:17

we really have to still do a lot more

33:19

to make sure that everyone can vote,

33:21

that everyone's votes count equally,

33:23

and that we have a democracy that works for

33:26

everybody instead of a select few. And

33:28

we're getting closer to that point, but we still

33:30

have a long way to go. That was so well

33:32

said and Thank you so much,

33:35

Jarry Berman for everything you've

33:37

done to help explain the

33:39

challenges to voting to help defend

33:41

our democracy, and uh, you

33:44

know, just keep going because, as you say, it's

33:46

not over yet. We made a big step, but we've

33:48

got to stay committed to the path we're

33:51

on to preserve, protect, and expand

33:53

our democracy. Thank you so much for talking

33:55

with me today. Thanks so much, Secretary Clinton.

33:57

It was a huge honor. Now

34:02

I want to turn to another journalist, Solo

34:04

Dad O'Brien. She's an award

34:06

winning documentarian and

34:09

journalist. She's the founder of

34:11

Solo Dad O'Brien Productions,

34:13

a documentary production company,

34:15

and the anchor and producer of the

34:17

TV show Matter of Fact with

34:19

Solidad O'Brien. Hello,

34:22

Solidad, I am so happy to talk

34:24

with you and I'm looking

34:26

forward to hearing your perspective on this

34:28

election. Secretary Clinton, thank you, thank

34:30

you for having me on your podcast. It's a real pleasure.

34:33

You know, I wanted to talk to you for a lot

34:35

of different reasons. Your perspective, your

34:37

experience, your understanding

34:40

of the interplay between the press

34:42

and the public in an election like

34:45

this one. And I guess I

34:47

should start out asking you what

34:49

you think of this election, What surprised

34:51

you, what you draw

34:53

from it? Uh, not much surprised

34:56

me, I would say, except for the fact

34:58

that this election has

35:00

been a four year process. President

35:02

Trump has never stopped running. And

35:04

I think where the media has

35:07

failed, although slowly kind of

35:09

figured it out, is how

35:11

do you handle a candidate who actually

35:14

has no intention at all of kind of stepping

35:16

into the job. So I think

35:18

it's just been a very long and frustrating for

35:21

years for me. I've focused a lot on mistakes

35:23

I think the media has made. The

35:25

only thing that has surprised me has been

35:27

the degree to which members

35:30

of Congress and sort of high

35:32

ranking people in the GOP have

35:35

really capitulated that has

35:37

been a surprise. Well, I think you make

35:39

two really important points, one about

35:41

the GOP and the other

35:43

piece about the press. I think you

35:46

nailed it in a number of comments

35:48

that I've seen you make over the years. It

35:51

was apparently just too unbelievable

35:54

for the press to accept what they saw right

35:56

before their eyes, that this was a man

35:59

who would bully and lie

36:01

to whatever degree he thought

36:04

benefited him. And I hope

36:06

that there is now a reckoning of some sort.

36:09

Yeah. I think the media requires a narrative

36:12

change constantly, right, That's what allows

36:14

you to say, well, breaking news, this

36:16

thing has now happened, that dinge of tone, there's

36:18

a new whatever um. And so I

36:21

think because of that, there's always this concept

36:24

that you know, maybe something is happening

36:26

here because action is sort of what drives

36:28

that breaking news agenda,

36:31

if you will. And so I think that was

36:33

part of it. And the other piece of it, to me

36:35

was just this this idea

36:37

of and I think it's related around money.

36:40

It's just not expensive to put pundits on

36:42

TV. When I was at CNN, for example,

36:44

you pay someone somewhere around a hundred thousand dollars

36:47

a year. But that meant for every show for an entire

36:49

year. And I'm sure people are getting much more than that, and

36:51

some are getting much less than that. But

36:53

if you think about it, you now have this sunk

36:55

cost of TV shows that just continue

36:58

on and on and on with time, moving the characters

37:01

around. As long as you have there's this side versus

37:03

that side, and you create this

37:05

sense of urgency and also

37:08

conflict, which is a good way to drive viewership.

37:11

The thing that I thought most interesting on election night

37:13

was when finally they ditched all the pundits right

37:15

and they said, let's go to Alleghany

37:18

County and then talked to this person.

37:20

And it was like, oh, now we're reporting.

37:23

We're going to a person and actually

37:26

finding out on the ground. No one's going to

37:28

uh suss it out for us or give us their

37:30

take or explain what the White House is

37:32

doing. Just go to the voices

37:35

on the ground. It's not brain surgery.

37:38

It's reporting. But it does require money,

37:40

live cameras, it requires reporters

37:43

there. And so I was interesting

37:45

to see that pivot and how much the quality

37:47

improved when you removed all the

37:49

noise of pundits and instead

37:51

you just relied on regardless of their political

37:54

background. I have no idea that Alleghany

37:56

County lady, who's quite good. I don't

37:58

know anything about or outside. She was a good interview,

38:01

giving us good factual insight

38:03

into what was happening in an important

38:05

county in a very important state. We're

38:08

taking a quick break. Stay with us, you

38:12

know. I also wanted to mention

38:14

that you have pointed out time and again

38:17

that black women are often

38:19

written out of the election narrative.

38:22

That we are usually

38:24

hearing, and we know they're the most

38:26

reliable voters. And something you

38:28

tweet it really spoke to me. Um

38:31

you said, I would just like to point

38:33

out that the cities at the center of the action

38:35

right now, Milwaukee, Philly, Detroit,

38:38

Atlanta virtually never

38:41

have TV news crews falling

38:43

over themselves to book quote

38:45

regular folks unquote from there, or

38:47

want to learn more about them or invite them

38:49

onto their sets. Can you talk a little bit

38:51

more about what you meant?

38:54

The New York Times has an excellent article today

38:57

on a Trump voter who's frustrated

38:59

and wants people understand why he didn't vote. Provided

39:03

article on the Trump voter for it wasn't

39:06

there. Somebody did account and I think they found

39:08

sixty over the I mean, it's insane,

39:10

right, It's just you know, so I found

39:12

that very frustrating because it's

39:14

pretty clear that people don't

39:16

want to have the Philly voter, because

39:18

that's how I want to talk to especially if you consider

39:21

how frequently disenfranchise

39:23

those voters are right, like you'd

39:25

sort of say, like, listen, I would fully understand

39:28

if you didn't vote Native Americans,

39:30

like who wants to stand in line for eleven

39:33

hours, right Like, it's so challenging,

39:36

and for some reason, I think

39:38

because the New York Times especially felt like they missed

39:40

the vote on the last election, they have really

39:42

doubled down on this, and it's so tedious

39:44

and ridiculous, you know, and

39:47

I have always found it so weird to sort of parse

39:49

through this, you know, who's

39:51

responsible as opposed to a strategy

39:54

that maybe the Democrats could think about of

39:56

elevating all of these different groups

39:58

and really hopeful they can figure

40:00

out the in fighting um,

40:03

which probably has some health to

40:05

its, probably got some good points to

40:07

it, but this idea, right like, I

40:10

think you look at a state like Arizona, which was Latinos

40:12

and Native Americans, right and I'm

40:14

sure Cindy McCain schlepping

40:17

around on behalf of them now President

40:19

elect Biden. I'm sure she got some votes

40:21

to and I'm going to guess in Arizona some Lincoln

40:23

Project ads were effective. So

40:26

I'm hopeful. It's hard. I mean, you know better

40:28

than anybody, how do you build a constituency

40:31

with people who don't necessarily see

40:33

eye to eye. I think the

40:35

point is a really critical one. Let's

40:38

get away from slicing and dicing the

40:40

electorate. You know, politics should

40:42

be a process of addition,

40:45

not division. And nobody owns

40:47

the truth. Nobody can say, oh, well, you know, if only

40:49

you listen to me, or oh no, if you only do that.

40:52

So I think it's important that we, you

40:55

know, have this debate about

40:57

the path forward. And it's going to be especially important

40:59

because sadly, at least as

41:01

of now, you know, the Biden Harris administration

41:04

is not going to have a Senate. In

41:06

fact, they're going to have the same obstacle

41:08

called Mitch McConnell that Barack Obama

41:11

and Joe Biden no from their own prior

41:13

experience. But I really have to ask

41:15

you about kamala Um. Here we are,

41:18

and it was thrilling to see

41:20

her wearing that white suffragist

41:22

suit, standing on that plant pants

41:25

suit pants pants.

41:27

So it was it goes all the

41:29

way back a hundred years to the suffragists.

41:32

But what does saying

41:34

madam Vice President mean to you? I

41:36

just think it's amazing to have an

41:38

opportunity to show America

41:41

in all of its diversity. I really

41:43

do. I mean, I think often when

41:45

we talk about diversity, we're sort of saying, well,

41:47

black people are you know, latinos

41:50

or we're really talking about this. And I actually

41:52

would love to see a cabinet

41:54

that just looks like America. And you

41:56

know a lot of the times you'd see photos

41:59

from inside the round table of

42:01

people sort of you know, cow towing to President

42:03

Trump and it was just all older

42:06

white men, and it's just not the

42:08

picture of a very diverse country. So

42:11

just from that standpoint alone, I think it would

42:13

be amazing. But you know, I'm a Delta,

42:16

which is a black sorority that focuses on

42:18

surface. She's an A K A. And I can

42:20

tell you the A k s are going to or already

42:23

and we'll continue to be insolved. There's

42:26

always a little flashing anyway.

42:28

And I was like, oh, now

42:33

a Delta elect let's come on, get

42:35

moving. Yes,

42:38

but we're happy for the A K s. But yeah, I

42:40

mean it's it's great, and I think it's I remember

42:42

my daughter Cecilia, who's now about to start

42:44

college. But when Barack Obama was

42:46

elected, she's used to say, so,

42:48

he's the first black man. I think she was about

42:50

to say. I said, yeah, She's like, there hasn't

42:52

been another one. I said, She's like, well,

42:54

how many girls have never been I'm like, that's

42:57

a bad news for you, honey, there's been no girls.

42:59

No girls, because you know, and it does

43:02

matter in the I think narrative

43:05

about the possibility of what America is

43:07

that really can

43:09

have this opportunity as long as they

43:12

work hard and take advantage of what's in front

43:14

of them. So, you know, I think in that regard

43:16

it's it's really important. Okay, So

43:19

big question, what do you think this

43:21

election tells us about

43:24

the country we're living in and

43:27

what kind of progress do you think

43:30

can be made with you know, Joe

43:32

Biden and Kamala Harris now going

43:34

to be you know, in the White House. I

43:36

hope one thing they focus on is

43:38

taking those things that are norms, which

43:40

is a terrible word because I don't think it ever connects

43:43

to people. I don't think

43:45

we walk around saying, well, that's a norm

43:48

and it doesn't mean anything. So I think there are a lot

43:50

of things in government that we all learned hatch

43:52

act it's a norm and it has no actual

43:55

teeth behind it. And I

43:58

think probably the biggest thing we've learned and is

44:00

how much hinges on norms which means

44:02

you're relying on your colleagues

44:04

to do the right thing. Sometimes they will,

44:07

sometimes they won't. So maybe those norms

44:09

need to be strengthened so that there's actual

44:11

accountability. And we

44:13

also have to figure out just misinformation

44:16

and disinformation. I really am

44:18

frustrated with the media because I think they talk

44:20

out of both sides of their mouths. You know, they

44:23

elevate misinformation, They

44:25

carry press conferences that are literally

44:27

they will report later that it was fully

44:30

alive while while also

44:32

doing a special on misinformation, and doesn't

44:34

mean you can't really do that

44:36

and hope to be serving democracy. So

44:39

I don't know how much more can

44:41

be done without addressing those things

44:43

first, because those, to me, having

44:46

never been in government office, feel like the building

44:48

blocks of helping people understand

44:50

their democracy. And if we don't

44:52

kind of create some kind of structure

44:55

there, it's insane to me. And I'm not sure at the last

44:57

minutes we've been talking this has changed, but that

44:59

there's some lady who just decided she's not

45:01

going to verify the result. Yeah,

45:04

the lady in charge of

45:06

helping the Biden team transition

45:09

into the new administration

45:12

has decided. I'm sure having

45:14

been told by the Trump White House that she's just not going

45:16

to cooperate and you're not going to give them.

45:19

But I would have never thought

45:21

that was a thing like ID page

45:23

seventy nine of whatever the handbook is they give you all

45:25

when you go into governments, you would say like, yeah,

45:28

item seven, top five.

45:32

Well, but I really like what you said

45:34

about accountability, and I am very much

45:36

in that camp that there has to be

45:38

accountability for the

45:40

breaches that we saw violating

45:42

the Hatch Act, for example, but

45:45

there were so many others. They would put people into positions

45:47

that we're not qualified, they

45:50

were not confirmed, and they would leave them there

45:52

and courts would say no, they have to go, and then they

45:54

would move them around. I mean, there was so

45:57

much that just undermined the rule

45:59

of law and the expectation

46:01

every American, regardless of political

46:03

party, should have that the people in the

46:05

government are actually following the

46:07

rules. But I think your average Americans

46:09

thinks Bill bar is President

46:12

Trump's lawyer. I think your average American

46:14

feels like the d o J actually is there

46:16

to do the president's bidding. I think we have failed,

46:18

certainly in explaining, you know,

46:21

basic mechanisms of how government

46:23

works. So I don't I think

46:25

most people don't really understand

46:27

those issues. Uh So, I

46:29

think a lot of work has to be done on that front

46:32

as well. But that's why I think your kind of

46:34

journalism is more important now than

46:36

ever. So it because, for whatever

46:38

combination of reasons, kids are not getting

46:41

Civics education, people are

46:43

not getting good information on which to

46:45

make decisions, which is instrumental to

46:48

how a democracy is supposed to work. So

46:50

the press has a huge responsibility,

46:52

and I can only hope and pray

46:54

that they're going to step up better than they have in

46:57

the last four years. Yeah, I wish I could

46:59

tell you like, yep, you got it. I think

47:02

that we're going to have to wait and see and if

47:04

there's someone who can figure out how to make

47:07

ratings out of not a

47:09

lot of what made Trump and I know because I was in

47:11

the room for many of these conversations made him

47:13

appealing, right, was he'lled who knows what he'll

47:15

do. He's It's great for reality

47:17

TV. You never know, it's the

47:19

wild card. It's going to be interesting. And

47:21

I think we have to figure out how to get

47:24

certainly news to move away from that and

47:26

move into educating people. The one thing I

47:28

can say is when we started doing that on our show, because

47:30

we were forced to, our ratings

47:32

grew massively. People actually

47:35

wanted to understand the context,

47:37

and so on that front, I do feel

47:39

hopeful because I think people actually

47:41

want information and context.

47:44

Well from your lips to God's ears.

47:46

My friend, I'm not sure how much he listens to

47:48

me, but I just can't thank you enough.

47:50

I just really wanted you to be part of this discussion.

47:53

Thank you so much, thanks for having me. Before

47:59

we wrap up, there's one more election

48:01

update I wanted to share. If

48:03

you listen to last week's show, you'll remember

48:05

Brandon Thomas who was running for state

48:08

representative in Tennessee. He

48:10

ran a hard fought campaign, but

48:12

sadly Brandon did not win that race,

48:15

but he shared this message with

48:17

us. Hi, everybody, this

48:19

is Brandon Thomas. We

48:21

didn't get the result we wanted in

48:24

this past election. However,

48:26

I am excited. I'm

48:29

thankful that we

48:31

have President elect Joseph

48:33

Biden, and I think that means a

48:35

lot for our country. Me

48:38

I'm going to keep plugging. We know,

48:40

Tennessee in and of itself is

48:43

a red state. You know, we know

48:46

that it's going to take some time, and

48:48

we know that we can look to Georgia for

48:51

that inspiration. You know, Georgia

48:53

is right below us. Like if

48:55

Georgia can do it, Tennessee can do

48:57

it. We're going to figure out how to

49:00

flip Tennessee blue again, and

49:03

we're going to figure out how to make progress

49:05

again. So you know, I'm

49:07

still in this fight. I know a lot of

49:10

other people are as well. Don't

49:12

discount us. I'm so proud

49:15

of Brandon and everyone who

49:17

decided to jump into the arena

49:19

in this election. You

49:21

know, I've thought a lot about this election, and

49:23

obviously I've thought a lot about the

49:25

last election. In it's

49:29

very reassuring to see

49:31

the outpouring of votes

49:33

by people who want to

49:35

see a change and voted

49:38

for Joe Biden and Kamala

49:40

Harris. You know, back in I

49:43

never wrote a concession

49:45

speech until it became necessary,

49:48

but I did have a victory

49:50

speech, and I went back and I looked

49:52

at that because parts

49:55

of it seemed so relevant

49:57

to me today to Joe and

49:59

com ALA's wonderful victory.

50:02

And let me just read from it,

50:04

because it's the tone and the tenor

50:07

that I think was captured this weekend

50:10

when so many people spontaneously

50:13

poured out into the streets across America,

50:16

singing and dancing

50:18

and laughing, and still

50:21

wearing masks in most places, but just

50:23

so filled with joy. So here's

50:26

what I had hoped to be able

50:28

to say. With your children on your

50:30

shoulders, neighbors at your side,

50:33

friends, old and new, standing

50:35

as one, you renewed

50:37

our democracy and

50:40

you changed its face forever.

50:43

If you dig deep enough through

50:45

all the mud of politics, eventually

50:48

you hit something hard and

50:50

true, a foundation of

50:53

fundamental values that unite

50:55

us as Americans. You

50:58

proved that today in a country

51:00

divided by race and religion,

51:02

class and culture, and

51:05

often paralyzing partisanship,

51:08

a vision of a hopeful, inclusive,

51:12

big hearted America prevailed.

51:16

That is how I'm feeling today, and

51:18

I hope you are too. You

51:27

and me both is brought to you by I

51:29

Heart Radio. We're produced

51:32

by Julie Subran and Kathleen Russo,

51:34

with help from Juma Aberdeen, Nikki

51:36

E Tour, Oscar Flores, Brianna

51:39

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51:41

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51:44

Lona val moorro our engineer

51:47

Is Zack McNeice. Original

51:49

music is by Forrest Gray.

51:52

If you like the show, tell someone else

51:54

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51:56

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51:58

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52:01

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52:04

We'd love to hear from you. Send us

52:06

your questions and comments, or even ideas

52:08

for future episodes to You

52:10

and Me Both pod at gmail

52:13

dot com. Come back next

52:15

week when we'll be speaking with

52:18

Governor Gretchen Whitmer,

52:20

who has seen a lot of ups

52:22

and downs of this election firsthand

52:25

as governor of Michigan. Don't

52:27

miss her, and don't miss it.