0:09

Hello you and welcome to You Are

0:11

Good, a feelings podcast about movies. Today

0:13

we are talking about Bones and all.

0:15

We are talking about it with our

0:18

great friend Kevin Allison. I'm one of

0:20

your hosts, Alex Steed, and I will

0:22

soon be joined by my marvelous co-host,

0:24

Sarah Marshall. Hey, super

0:26

quick note before we jump

0:28

in, just in case you skip these

0:31

interests, there's a longer version of this

0:33

episode by like 20 to 30 minutes

0:35

longer available to

0:37

our Patreon and Apple podcast

0:39

subscribers. Just want to give you a heads up

0:41

about that before you dive in

0:44

further. Yeah,

0:46

know that this is one of my favorite

0:48

conversations so you can get a substantial amount

0:50

more over in bonus land. Bones

0:53

and all is a 2022 romantic horror film directed by Luca Guadagnino.

0:57

It is based on

0:59

the 2015 novel Bones and

1:02

all by Camille De Angelis. It's set

1:04

in the late 1980s. It stars Taylor

1:06

Russell and Timothy Chalamet as a pair

1:08

of young cannibals who flee together on

1:10

a road trip across the

1:12

United States of America and

1:14

develop feelings for each other. Kevin

1:17

Allison is an American comedian, a

1:19

writer, an actor, a storyteller. He's

1:21

a writing and performing member of

1:23

the comedy troupe The State. Extraordinarily

1:28

formative to and for me and

1:30

a lot of people like me.

1:33

There is no debate that

1:37

a reason why I got into all of the things

1:39

that I got into is because

1:41

of the state. The state in

1:44

so many ways feels like 40%

1:46

of how I got here. So

1:51

I appreciate Kevin so much and then not

1:53

only that, Kevin hosts

1:55

and has hosted Risk, the

1:58

storytelling podcast. for

2:00

years, for years and years. Kevin is

2:03

an old school podcaster. Kevin's

2:05

been in the game for

2:07

a long time. It's incredible. I was fortunate

2:09

to tell a story at Risk once, and

2:13

I loved it, loved being a part of it. I hope to

2:15

be a part of it again someday soon.

2:17

If you have Risk events in your

2:19

area, go check them out. You'll love

2:21

them. If you like the show, you'll love that. And if

2:24

you're not listening to Risk, listen to

2:26

Risk. How are you doing?

2:28

How's it going in your world? What is happening?

2:31

What are you thinking about? What are

2:33

you reading? What are you feeling? What are

2:35

you watching? Tell us over at You Are

2:37

Good or You Are Good Pod, depending

2:39

on the social channel that you're on, or

2:42

probably on it, whatever it is.

2:44

If you can find us at You Are Good

2:46

or You Are Good Pod, let us know what's

2:48

on your mind. And don't forget that you, my

2:51

friend, you are good. I

2:55

recently saw a short film that premiered

2:57

in Los Angeles. I

3:01

saw a short film by the filmmaker Alex

3:03

Farrias. I hope that I'm

3:05

saying that right, Alex Farrias, perhaps. It

3:08

was called Beatrix is Invisible. I

3:11

don't think this is shown at festivals yet. I think

3:13

that this was its sort of initial launch that's going

3:15

to show at festivals. But it starred the great Ellen

3:18

Greene, stars the great Ellen Greene. Ellen

3:20

Greene was in the room and

3:22

is a slight person

3:25

with the energy and projected size

3:27

of like Shaquille O'Neal.

3:32

Maybe more energy than Shaquille O'Neal, which

3:34

is like, is a giant.

3:37

I was just in awe of being around

3:39

Ellen Greene. You can hear us talk about

3:42

our love for Greene in our little Shop

3:44

of Horrors episode. So much, so, so much.

3:47

And this performance

3:49

that Greene delivers, which is a

3:52

performance about aging and

3:54

invisibility and finding

3:57

power in the face of feeling small. and

4:00

unseen was marvelous.

4:03

Please keep an eye out for it. If it shows

4:05

at a festival or whatever, whenever it's available for you

4:07

to view, check it out. I realize I'm giving you

4:10

an item that you can't take action

4:12

on right now, but just know about it. I

4:14

have no incentive to say any

4:16

of this. I don't know the person who made it. I

4:19

just loved it and I've been thinking about it since.

4:21

It's really been on my mind.

4:23

And again, Green's performance was

4:25

just exquisite. You

4:28

are good. A Feeling's podcast

4:30

about movies isn't made possible with and

4:32

by your support. Thanks to

4:34

everyone who supports us on Patreon

4:37

and Apple Podcast subscriptions. We have

4:39

a new bonus episode.

4:41

If it's not up right now,

4:43

it'll be out very soon about

4:46

Mannequin that we recorded with our

4:48

great friend River Butcher. There's also

4:50

an extended cut version of this

4:52

conversation about Bones and all because

4:55

we had a great chat. We

4:57

had a long, good

4:59

chat. We couldn't fit it all into the main

5:01

feed episode. I think the bonus episode is like

5:03

20 or more minutes

5:06

longer than this episode. I love it. I think

5:08

this is one of my favorite conversations that we've

5:10

ever had. It doesn't hurt that

5:12

it's one of my favorite people with

5:14

a hero. But yeah, if you want

5:16

more, you can

5:18

find that over in Bonus Land at

5:20

Patreon and Apple Podcast subscriptions. If

5:24

you, like me, are in

5:26

favor of a ceasefire, there appears

5:28

to be some progress in that

5:30

arena, at least with regard to

5:33

world demand. Find

5:36

actions in and around your neighborhood if

5:39

you can. If you're able to

5:41

offer any financial support, the Palestine Children's Relief

5:43

Fund is a great place to start. And

5:45

we have a link to that in the

5:47

show notes. All right.

5:49

I think that's it for our

5:52

introduction to Bones and all. I

5:54

think that's all you need to know. I'm trying to think of any

5:57

Content warnings. I Mean, we talk about... Cannibalism.

6:00

We talk about gore finisher in

6:02

there. We talk about grooming just

6:04

a little bit. We mentioned the

6:06

word molestation but not in the

6:08

context but usually known known in

6:11

I just wanted to be a

6:13

heads up on that and I

6:15

think that that's it. I'm pretty

6:17

sure that sets it, but you

6:19

know, as always, listen to the

6:21

episodes with care by think that

6:23

the warning for this particular episode.

6:27

Aren't without further ado, let's let's it's

6:29

you and a finger. To

6:33

interpret which dog bones and on swift

6:35

of in alison. Hello

6:44

Sarah Marshall. Hello Alex See

6:47

and I A cannonball. A.

6:52

Sleazy might eight foot breed lying

6:54

around here somewhere. It's. Plenty.

6:57

Italia as someone who is not

7:00

generally grass out by a blind

7:02

god spent his grossed out by

7:04

a piles of hair. This.

7:06

Movie was an ally it and a Callings

7:08

Alex I hear a faint brave is in

7:11

my house or a lot of them. I

7:15

so I who were covering bones and

7:17

all which I watched last year. I

7:19

loved to movies last year old not

7:22

because there were two only to good

7:24

movie have any my mom because we

7:26

watch safety movies here and I watch

7:29

when I to and elsewhere. I loved

7:31

the iron cloth so much which is

7:33

about boys loving each other and I

7:35

loved bones. And all so much feels

7:37

to me like this really a machine

7:40

way to talk about it does inverted

7:42

version of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre that

7:44

I'd and served to get into it

7:46

to the movie that We Love Sky

7:48

had. that's so true. it's about Als.

7:51

Liquidity tendencies, another with quiet. And

7:54

it is when there isn't a

7:56

chainsaw kindness. And

7:58

when I brought it up to. Our

8:00

dear friend. Kevin Allison

8:02

She's awesome. Interesting things in it

8:05

that I was like, although make

8:07

this conversation even more fascinating. Kevin

8:09

Hello Kevin kids there be a

8:12

sub tax. Assessor

8:14

Alex tricked both of us. been.

8:16

you said to me on twitter

8:18

you gotta watch bones and all

8:20

when I watch sit. I knew

8:23

nothing. not who directed who was

8:25

in it or one it was

8:27

about. And so it really is

8:29

for suckers. Graduated

8:32

a friend. He

8:35

has indeed. Oh my goodness yeah

8:37

But as soon as there was

8:39

that element to it was like

8:42

oh I can relate to parts

8:44

of this from you know just

8:46

growing up and all you know

8:48

things started to change. It's very

8:50

interesting. yeah I I didn't mean

8:52

to trick you. put out a

8:55

sex offender is someone who I

8:57

think will enjoy this and then

8:59

when he saw you like reference

9:01

it after. The fact I was

9:03

like, okay, it landed in some

9:06

way. My pamphlet has been read

9:08

and assimilated. Other

9:11

saw some of the Length of

9:13

Fire Under. A Given how dumb

9:16

people know you, how do people

9:18

know you? What are you known

9:20

for? Well I have a podcast

9:22

called Risk where people tell true

9:24

stories they never thought they'd dares

9:27

your in public. We have a

9:29

Cup of Cannibalism store on. He

9:31

is now. With yeah so.

9:33

And so this movie is about

9:35

cannibalism and that's something that I.

9:37

Find so exciting because I think.

9:40

We're. Going to be talking through out

9:42

about the great hierarchy. a

9:45

vampire films of which i believe

9:47

cannibalism upset and there is nothing

9:49

clear that a vampire movie in

9:51

my opinion that i know absolutely

9:53

and for a movie that's like

9:55

exploring these themes in there are

9:58

really unsettling parts to watch even

10:00

though again like Texas Chainsaw Massacre, there's

10:02

not like giant full on gory scenes.

10:04

There's just enough to unsettle you. And

10:08

then some beautiful landscapes. In

10:10

some gorgeous landscapes, some great

10:12

80s vibes music-wise, it

10:14

is somehow absolutely delicately

10:17

lovely, ineffective as a

10:20

love story. And like as a first love

10:22

story in ways that like, typically

10:24

when vampire stories do this,

10:27

there's something about the affect

10:29

and aesthetic of like the eroticism

10:31

piece that like takes me out of the

10:33

love. Yeah. Cause you don't relate

10:36

to them. Cause they're so fancy. Yeah. Right,

10:38

and they're so often fancy, which is why

10:40

Near Dark is such an important movie. And

10:42

I think, Uncle of this movie. I

10:45

love that, the idea of it being the uncle

10:47

of this movie. And there's something about first

10:50

love that we see replicated in

10:52

crushes for the rest of our

10:54

lives. That is related

10:56

to infatuation in which you

10:58

just want to consume, right?

11:01

Like you want to like consume the thing or

11:03

person or whatever that you're into and have them

11:05

be a part of you. And

11:07

so we get that here. It's so good. I

11:09

fucking love it. Sarah

11:13

Marshall, what's Bones and all about?

11:15

Oh my gosh. Okay. So

11:17

I'll start also by saying that in 2015, I

11:20

finished writing a probably

11:22

unpublishable novel. Which is

11:24

very similar to this movie on many counts. It

11:27

was about a teenage cannibal

11:29

vampire who has a

11:31

father figure who like abandons her the

11:33

first chance he can. She's like looking

11:35

for love. It's the eighties, but she's

11:37

in LA and she meets someone who's

11:39

clearly gets the night stalker Richard Ramirez.

11:42

So this movie I think is actually a

11:44

much more constructive approach to

11:46

the subject matter. And I say this

11:48

because I believe these are like, I

11:51

mean by sheer math, like two completely unrelated

11:53

projects. Because this movie is based on a

11:55

book that was published in 2015. And

11:59

which I'm excited. to read but that there's like

12:01

some kind of universal grammar of

12:04

vampires that goes I think even beyond culture

12:06

with this idea of like consuming and being

12:08

consumed and needing to live by eating and

12:10

there being some kind of ethical compromise in

12:13

that and also kind of a

12:15

spirituality and an erotics to consuming

12:17

the flesh. That's just

12:20

like baked into us or else so many people

12:22

wouldn't take communion, see in Bruges

12:24

episode but anyway Bones and All is

12:26

about a teenage girl who has the

12:29

exact same bangs as the friend of

12:31

the first victim in The Silence of

12:33

the Lambs. We know that this is

12:35

intentional which I love. I've loved those

12:37

bangs my whole life and

12:39

she lives with her father. They

12:42

move around a lot. He's secretive. He

12:44

won't let her socialize and so at the start

12:46

you're like oh yeah this is a movie about a

12:48

girl who's kind of different and then she learns

12:50

how to meet friends. Okay,

12:52

you're kind of settling in, right? You're

12:55

enjoying your popcorn and

12:58

then she sneaks out and goes to a

13:00

sleepover with a girl

13:02

who she's kind of friends with but keeping it a little

13:04

bit of a distance and you're like oh is it like

13:06

does she have like a crush on her? Where

13:08

are we going? And then she

13:12

tries to eat her finger, just tries to

13:14

bite it clean off. She

13:16

just kind of loses track of herself for

13:18

a second and like Kevin is someone going

13:21

in completely cold? What was that like for

13:23

you? Oh my gosh, that was such a

13:25

shock. The first thing that occurred

13:27

to me was I was like oh my gosh

13:29

yeah I remember how straight

13:31

people don't realize that

13:33

sleepovers are so loaded

13:36

for gay kids. I

13:39

had so much fun at some

13:41

sleepovers when I was younger but

13:43

yeah then when it turned into

13:46

biting the finger I was like

13:48

oh oh oh this is what we're

13:50

in for now. So then

13:53

I'm in the horror movie vibe,

13:55

right? But then so

13:57

much more starts to happen. beautiful

14:00

thing about how that scene works

14:02

is there's not one second that

14:05

separates like where it goes from being like

14:07

giving into like a little eroticism or like

14:10

sort of like being interested in your friend

14:12

in a sexual way when the finger is

14:14

in the mouth because of how they are

14:16

the entire time to the bite. So like

14:18

you are caught entirely in a way that

14:22

I feel like feels resonant to when

14:24

you first have like initial sexual experiences

14:27

that we are not the

14:29

ones that you are supposed to have. Well

14:31

there are some sleepovers where you'll get

14:33

better treatment for trying to bite someone's

14:35

finger off than for kissing them you

14:38

know and people have lived to tell

14:40

the tale and probably also packed up

14:42

and moved in the middle of the

14:44

night. So she makes a run for

14:47

it our main

14:50

character whose name

14:52

I forgot. Maren. Maren, yeah yeah

14:55

yeah. Maren, which nobody

14:57

was named in the 80s but

14:59

whatever. People were named it. There's

15:01

a county named it. Different spelling

15:03

though, it's fine. Maren yearly which

15:05

is so good and there's a

15:08

part later on where spoiler her

15:10

mother played by spoiler Chloe Sevene

15:12

has written her a letter. By

15:15

New York eight girl Chloe

15:17

Sevene. That's right. She was

15:19

like good evening Maren, it's

15:21

me, Chloe. I've recently come

15:24

to my attention that

15:26

I am a cannibal. But she calls

15:28

her little yearly and I was just like

15:30

Chloe Sevene would name her child little

15:32

yearly. Her name will name yearly.

15:34

That's true. But Maren yearly,

15:36

she and her father have to jam in the

15:39

middle of the night. It's just like slums of

15:41

Beverly Hills. It is the

15:43

year of our Lord 1988. They pack up

15:45

and move to Maryland and then pretty soon

15:47

after that he gets fucks off and abandons

15:49

her anyway. And he's left

15:51

her a tape that is either I know it's

15:54

not really long, she's just taking her sweet time

15:56

listening to it but she's listening to it for

15:58

the whole movie. I

16:00

think he was out there on the porch

16:02

recording this thing for like 10 hours. The

16:04

paper boy came by, you know? It's like

16:06

literally any email from me. And you're like,

16:09

this is too many fucking words. Why? Where

16:11

it's like, when in the course of human

16:13

events? I'll

16:16

keep coming back to this throughout the year.

16:20

And I'll always find new wisdom. Yeah,

16:22

it's like a big canister of tea,

16:24

you know? But he's

16:26

basically like, Dear, Marin, you

16:29

first attacked a human being when you were three

16:31

years old. So,

16:35

yeah, so there is, there does feel like

16:37

so much allegory in this movie. And one of them

16:39

is that he's like, I've been watching you since you

16:41

were a toddler. And we always

16:44

had to move around. So people didn't catch on about

16:46

the way that you are. And

16:48

this is also the way your mother was. And

16:51

here's your birth certificate, which

16:53

I was watching. And I was like, where is my birth

16:56

certificate? And the

16:58

government just can't do a piece of paper

17:00

when you're born. And it's like, keep that

17:02

forever. Don't lose it. Yeah. Don't lose it.

17:05

You know, it's hard to lose a piece

17:07

of paper, famously. That's never happened. And

17:10

then, you know, and if you're a young vampire,

17:12

you can use it as proof of age to

17:14

get a bus ticket to Columbus, Ohio, because you're

17:17

trying to go to Menominee, Wisconsin

17:19

or something to

17:22

track down your mother. Or I guess it's where

17:24

she was born. I don't know. Something, she has to get to

17:26

the region. And so she can only get as far as Ohio.

17:28

And there she meets Mark Rylance, who

17:31

I think is giving it his best

17:33

Harry Dean Stanton. Wow.

17:36

That's great. Right. That's great. Yeah. Like a,

17:38

like a faggy Harry Dean Stanton. Like I

17:41

feel like that was the direction. They were

17:43

like, Harry Dean Stanton is dead. So tonight

17:45

Mark Rylance will be playing the role of

17:47

Harry Dean Stanton. And as a result, again,

17:50

I don't mean to keep drawing parallels. Like

17:52

this is a long lost

17:54

Sawyer family member from Texas.

17:56

Jan saw. Oh, that's true. Yeah. Like

17:59

this guy. I, is like, if one of

18:01

them left and like maybe tried to go

18:03

to college or something, like, there's just something

18:06

about him that is spectacular

18:08

and otherworldly. One

18:10

of my favorite, not just horror performances,

18:12

but one of my favorite performances of

18:14

all time. Kevin, how would you describe

18:18

this person? Sully, famously.

18:20

Sully. You know, what's

18:23

so interesting to me about Sully

18:26

is that I've never felt so

18:28

much sympathy and empathy for a

18:30

villain, you know what I mean?

18:33

Like, I kind of don't trust

18:35

anything he says, you know, I

18:37

kind of second guess everything he

18:40

says except when he talks

18:42

about how lonely and hard his life has

18:44

been, you know, then I'm like, yeah,

18:47

I really buy that, you know, like,

18:49

all of the adults in the

18:52

movie are clearly traumatized and the

18:54

two kids in the movie are

18:56

trying to figure out how to,

18:58

you know, not end

19:00

up so fucked up as the

19:03

adults in their lives and like

19:05

he's, I guess, ostensibly the best,

19:07

you know, like, like he's trying

19:10

to present an ethical cannibalism to

19:12

them. He'll at least stick around,

19:14

you know, ultimately too

19:16

much, but he also is like

19:18

that character, and I know this manifests for

19:20

a lot of people for a lot of

19:22

different reasons and especially manifest for like a

19:25

lot of like queer young people is like

19:27

that there's like an elder who

19:30

introduces you to things that like your

19:32

parents aren't introducing you don't introduce you

19:34

to, introduce you to like a

19:37

patchwork code based on their life,

19:39

like not necessarily based on like

19:41

what's good or logical or right, but it's

19:44

like this is what's kept me alive so

19:46

far. And sometimes

19:48

the relationship is super inappropriate.

19:51

Right, exactly. That can tip

19:54

over into like grooming, you

19:56

know, the way he goes so quickly

19:59

to I was

20:01

nice, you know, I was trying

20:03

to be nice to you and

20:05

helpful to you and like he

20:08

becomes very like I deserve for

20:10

you to be my partner or

20:12

something like that. Yeah, he clearly

20:15

like does have some like, I

20:17

don't know, earned wisdom to share

20:19

with her, you know, but at

20:22

the same time he's so creepy.

20:24

Oh yeah, I know, great choice

20:26

of underwear. Oh

20:29

my God. The seating

20:31

scene is really beautiful and all the

20:33

kind of across the board for this

20:35

whole movie, something I really appreciated about it

20:37

is just like the clothes

20:40

people are wearing are clearly

20:42

based not on like TV shows and

20:44

fashion magazines of the 80s, but like

20:46

pictures of real people. Yeah,

20:49

absolutely. And that the

20:51

interiors and the way

20:53

everything looks, you know, we've

20:55

drifted so far into this kind of exaggerated

20:57

version of the 80s which as my mom

20:59

complains about with period pieces in the 50s

21:01

specifically because that's when she grew up, but

21:03

it's true of every era. It's

21:06

bad art direction to be like everyone

21:08

in this movie just bought

21:10

all new furniture this year and they bought

21:12

all new clothes this year. They're listening to

21:14

all new music this year and it's like people

21:16

don't do that and a tweet that Alex I

21:18

remember you sent me once that I always think of

21:21

somebody being like filmmakers

21:23

underestimate how brown the 80s

21:25

were. Oh totally, totally.

21:28

Yeah, it's such a

21:31

beautiful and the rust belt aspect.

21:33

Yeah. Just all these

21:35

places that feel kind of a little

21:37

bit discarded or just not very well

21:39

cared for. And extra in the past

21:41

and all and there's so much peeling

21:44

paint. Yeah,

21:46

and so we're taking this movie is set in

21:48

you know, Virginia, Maryland,

21:50

Ohio, Kentucky, Minnesota. Like

21:53

there is no real America, but that is the

21:56

real America. It's

21:58

the part that got abandoned first. So

22:02

yeah, he kind of, he does a

22:04

little exposition for us. He's like, you're

22:06

an eater. I can smell an eater from half a mile

22:09

away and we have a, I have a code. I never

22:11

eat an eater and I can

22:13

smell someone who's near death and then I go

22:15

into their house and feed on them. And again, this

22:17

is something that I had been

22:19

writing about in this kind

22:22

of piece of juvenile

22:24

about and it was very much through thinking

22:26

about these kind of universal themes in American

22:28

life of like, how does one eat ethically? And it's like,

22:30

well, if you're a cannibal and you wait until somebody's

22:33

dead and then you go eat them, then like, you

22:35

know, something's going to eat you once you're dead, might

22:37

be the best way to do it. The

22:40

supply chain is very short and they feed

22:42

and he kind of, he tells her about

22:45

her condition, which

22:49

is that she hasn't eaten very much human flesh yet,

22:51

but she's going to need two more as she grows

22:53

up. What's interesting

22:56

too, and I don't think this ever comes

22:58

up in this movie is that normally with

23:00

vampirism, there's this idea of like you've made

23:02

this bargain with the devil where you can,

23:04

you know, you'll never grow old Michael and

23:07

you'll never die, but you must feed.

23:09

And these guys are just mortals. They

23:11

just, there's no sweet side of the

23:13

bargain for them. They just got to eat people.

23:15

Yeah. Yeah, totally. That's, it's so

23:17

funny that that's the deal. It's just a

23:19

recessive trait. It's like being a redhead. Yeah.

23:23

Exactly. Like, Mary didn't get like

23:25

stuck at 18 forever. She's just like on her journey

23:27

and has to live a life of this. Yeah. And

23:30

she's probably around now. She was just like 55. She

23:33

probably has like a job, you

23:35

know, doing tech support for somewhere.

23:37

She's being a person. She's being

23:39

a person. So yeah, she

23:41

learns the ground rules and then she's like, okay,

23:43

I'm going to go. And then she gets like

23:45

bolts and guts on a bus. But what does

23:47

she see? But Sully's standing there looking creepy and

23:50

forlorn. Never good. As

23:52

the bus pulls away and pretty soon

23:54

she while doing some light shoplifting

23:57

runs into Timothy Shalomay.

24:00

who's also an eater, which is so

24:02

great because he's cute. And

24:04

she meets him when he's escorting

24:06

a guy out of a store where he

24:09

does not work, who he's

24:11

caught also stealing. And

24:13

does he, what happens to that guy? He

24:15

kills that guy. Okay. Yeah, he

24:17

kills him and eats him a bit and on the

24:19

outside he says to Marin something along the lines of

24:21

like he's like 30 feet beyond that thing if you,

24:23

implying like if she wants to get in on it,

24:26

he's over there. Yeah, if you want a snack. Exactly.

24:28

That guy was bullying some woman

24:30

in that store. So I think

24:32

that was his, yeah, he deserves,

24:34

he's a creep. Yeah, we're playing

24:36

by Hannibal Jigsaw rules here where if someone

24:38

is rude in public, you're allowed to eat them.

24:41

Yes. Because you know,

24:43

it can get out of hand

24:45

quickly. Well, it's kind of also

24:47

just like leaves, it will be like his

24:49

thing for the rest of the movie is

24:51

like his whole character is protect

24:53

your sister from your drunk dad. And

24:56

our first introduction to him is protect

24:58

this random mother from loud mouth asshole

25:01

who I think has a Reagan bumper

25:03

sticker, which is backed

25:05

up by a 80s boob job

25:07

topless lady poster in his apartment. Yeah,

25:10

that issue I think

25:12

is really interesting though

25:14

that Chalamet's character doesn't

25:17

bother with the whole a

25:19

person would be near death, right? No.

25:22

Well, he says to her, everyone has their

25:24

rules. That's not one of mine. Right,

25:27

right, right, right. With Sully, like

25:29

I kind of doubt

25:32

that he sticks to his rules also,

25:34

just because I don't really trust most

25:37

of what Sully says, you know? Well,

25:39

not to give anything away, but we

25:41

know he doesn't. I mean, he later

25:44

transgresses on his who is on the

25:46

menu. But

25:49

I like this, I mean, this is like the, you

25:52

know, I think a thing a lot of

25:54

people have problems with regard to like what

25:57

the internet settled into, particularly.

26:00

with regard to quote discourse discourse

26:02

around like issues of queerness discourse

26:05

around issues of feminism etc Is

26:08

there it feels increasingly like there's

26:10

an orthodoxy? Which in many

26:12

ways feels contrary to like what the whole

26:15

point was necessarily in the first place and

26:17

it's very easy to Accidentally

26:19

or unintentionally fall on the wrong side of

26:21

the orthodoxy. It's very easy also to Fake

26:25

adherence to the orthodoxy as a

26:27

means of sort of establishing audience Etc,

26:30

etc. And what we see in that

26:33

just that small part where it's like everyone has

26:35

their rules That's not one of mine is Every

26:39

group particularly in 1988 you can see this as like

26:43

Gus Van Sant drugstore cowboy junkie logic

26:45

You can see this as just like

26:47

every group of two or three friends

26:49

as its own culture within queer community

26:52

stuff or like Everyone

26:54

has like these kind of sets of rules

26:56

which establish like their culture or agreement with

26:58

how they interface in the world And

27:01

there isn't yet this kind of like

27:03

grand idea that is all shared among

27:05

everybody and it's either like very right

27:07

or very wrong Right, right, right because

27:10

I know that there are like definite

27:12

not definite But there are real camps

27:14

of people who like this movie based

27:16

on what they believe It's

27:18

speaking to and there are people who are like this

27:20

is I was on another show talking about this and

27:22

I was like Yeah, this is all like it's a

27:25

very leaf like queer allegory and they were like no,

27:27

no, no, this is addiction Oh, yeah,

27:29

I kind of love the fact

27:31

that any one analogy, you know

27:33

It doesn't stick all the way

27:36

to you know that it's very

27:38

flexible that way you know that

27:40

it can be somewhat addiction or

27:43

eating disorder or Coming

27:45

to terms with being queer and kinky or

27:48

even the harm reduction, you

27:50

know questions of Okay, we

27:52

want to do this or

27:54

feel an instinctual pull to

27:56

do this but how to

27:58

do it to go about doing

28:01

it. Right. Absolutely. Or is it as

28:03

simple as saying, uh, like

28:06

we're right in middle, we're at the end

28:08

of Reagan times going into Bush times. Like

28:11

what is existence that goes beyond

28:13

a simple binary of like, just

28:15

say no. Like that's like what

28:17

everyone is sort of dealing with

28:20

in one way or another. Wow.

28:22

That that's another. Yeah, absolutely. Totally.

28:24

Yeah. You know, and so they bond and

28:26

he needs, he's a drifter, but he

28:28

needs to go home to Kentucky to

28:30

take his little sister for a driving

28:32

lesson, which is so fucking cute.

28:35

And then he's like, I'll take you to see your

28:37

mom. And so they go, he's

28:39

like, we'll see the world. Well, you

28:41

know, at least Missouri and Minnesota, we'll

28:43

see America. The

28:45

other thing that I'm sorry, I'm sorry

28:48

to cut you off there, but like

28:50

they, when they go back to this

28:52

guy's apartment, there is an extremely unnecessary,

28:54

but wonderful scene where he

28:56

finds kisses, lick it up. I

28:58

think it is necessary. I

29:00

agree. I do agree. I mean, like on page, it's

29:02

someone must've been like, do we need to put this

29:05

in there? And the guy's like, yeah, absolutely. And I

29:07

love this scene where he just like walks

29:09

around dancing to that so much. And

29:11

then the next and only song he

29:13

sings is George Strait's Amarillo by morning.

29:15

And it really just speaks to like,

29:17

what was going on musically at this

29:19

time in the eighties. It's like, you

29:21

knew like 30 songs and

29:23

that's it. And

29:26

it was really decided by whoever was choosing

29:28

what went on the radio in your town.

29:31

Totally. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. And so

29:33

they, they're on their grade, the

29:35

American road trip. There goes two

29:37

cute cannibals falling in love on the road.

29:39

And so they get up. Well,

29:42

first they, this movie

29:44

is a lot like crossroads, right? Because

29:46

it's so bad a girl traveling across

29:48

America to find her mother. And

29:51

so first, Marin finds her grandmother

29:53

who is played by Jessica

29:55

Harper. Can you believe it? No,

29:57

I'm obsessed with her. I've been

29:59

obsessed with her since I was like 15. I

30:02

didn't even realize it until this second

30:04

viewing. Oh really? I was

30:06

like, oh, oh my gosh, it's the Suspiria

30:08

gal. The

30:11

Suspiria gal. Directed by

30:13

the Suspiria remake guy. So

30:16

fun. She's

30:18

great. And so yeah, it's lovely to see her

30:20

here. And she's like, your mother is no longer

30:22

with us. And she's like, well, you know, she's

30:24

alive, but she's living the good life,

30:26

being guarded by a very helpful nurse

30:28

in a nice mental health facility where

30:31

she did chew off both of her

30:33

hands. Oh my God. Like

30:35

Lloyd's bunny in the stand. And

30:38

the only part of this movie

30:40

honestly, that felt sort of like, okay, this

30:42

is a bit much in terms of reality,

30:44

but also I don't care. And I'm not

30:46

complaining. Is it the letter? It's not

30:48

the letter, it's the nurse who's just like, hello.

30:51

Oh right. Your mother's been waiting for you for

30:53

15 years. If you wrote

30:55

this letter here, it is right now.

30:57

I have it available to you to

30:59

read. I agree. It was so sort

31:01

of convenient, but we do, we may

31:03

need to let listeners know, particularly younger

31:05

listeners, that at this time in American

31:07

history, some people had jobs that lasted

31:09

for more than five years at most.

31:12

Like some people would get a job

31:14

at a place and they'd never

31:16

have to find another one. And also sometimes

31:18

you had a pair of shoes that lasted

31:20

for longer than five years at most. That's

31:22

even weirder, am I right? May

31:25

you buy a pair of sneakers, they fall apart in

31:27

five months. You're like, we had a good

31:30

run. We had a good life together.

31:32

Some people had jobs for so long

31:34

that they had institutional memory and they

31:36

would remember that when this particular person

31:38

showed up, there was a letter put

31:40

on file 15 years ago. Totally. Well,

31:43

I don't think it's the fact that like,

31:45

out of the monsters that bureaucracy makes, out

31:47

of everyone who has to

31:49

work in it, like it's not someone

31:51

in like teddy bear scrubs who's

31:53

like, please stand behind the line. This

31:57

is a nice woman who explains everything.

32:00

We've just gotten to, to Maren's mother has

32:02

played by Chloe, 70. And

32:05

so, and I love, I love

32:07

this movie. I think it's perfect.

32:09

And there are also, because a movie is

32:12

a movie, there are elements that yeah, the

32:14

letter too, where they like give her the

32:16

letter and the letter

32:18

is like a James Bond villain speech by

32:21

the end, like Alex, can you talk about

32:23

it? Yeah, we hear it in Chloe's voice.

32:30

That in also like in

32:32

the affect of her clear

32:34

having come off the rails at some point. So

32:36

it's being read by a person who is not

32:39

doing well. But in Maren's head,

32:41

this is what she's hearing. Oh, jokes aside,

32:43

I think she's great in this. Yes,

32:46

no, for sure. In Maren's head,

32:48

it essentially says, if you're here,

32:50

this is because your father broke

32:52

his promise, meaning the father likely

32:54

promised to not tell Maren sort

32:56

of like what her history is, or at

32:58

least where the mother is. You're

33:00

here because you've figured stuff out. I love

33:03

you and I love your father. And it's

33:05

been torture that I can't be around you.

33:08

But it's something along the lines of like,

33:10

the only freedom we will ever have is

33:12

like being in a place with like doors

33:14

with locks. And to your

33:17

point of like the sort of

33:19

the villain or origin speech, she's

33:22

explaining how her heart got broken

33:25

and why she is in this state and

33:27

why she has done some things to protect

33:29

Maren. And one of those things is

33:31

that she's gonna kill her? I don't know, like

33:33

I don't exactly know what the culmination is. Yeah,

33:36

she's like, if you're reading this letter right now, I'm

33:38

already about to fucking kill you. And it's

33:40

like, maybe don't put that in your letter.

33:43

Do you think she wrote the letter

33:45

and then like read it in her

33:47

head and counted the timing? So she's

33:49

like, okay, when the letter goes in

33:51

Maren's hand, one, two, three,

33:53

and then launch. It'll be

33:55

awkward, cause you've never met your daughter and you don't

33:57

know what, you know, how fast she reads. It

34:00

varies a lot between people. I'm a very slow

34:02

reader, you know? So she might be starting to

34:04

lunge and I'd be like, I'm actually at the

34:06

start of the third paragraph. I

34:09

don't know what this is about. Hold

34:11

the lunge, mom. Kevin,

34:15

how does this, yeah, what is this, how does this scene

34:17

read to you? Well, it's

34:19

so nerve wracking. There are so

34:22

many scenes like this in the

34:24

movie where there's tense music building

34:26

and you're not sure what this

34:29

person is going to be all

34:31

about. And you know, it

34:33

kind of makes no sense that her mother

34:35

attacks. I mean, you know, she could only

34:38

get so far. She's like, I'm going to

34:40

make sure I attack you when a psychiatric

34:42

nurse is in the room who's been trained

34:44

to deal with this

34:46

very instance. It is really

34:48

great. Like when we were, when we, our show

34:51

was called Why Our Dads, where we deconstructed the

34:53

role of our fathers in our lives and what

34:55

that means and masculinity, etc. So many people were

34:57

like, you should do a spin-off show called Why

34:59

Our Moms about all of our people who have

35:01

issues with their moms. And this

35:03

movie's for you. And I was like, no,

35:05

because my mom listens to podcasts. This

35:09

movie's for you. We have a girl who

35:11

has issues with her mom and we have

35:13

a guy who has issues with his dad

35:15

and they go on a road trip together.

35:17

That's right. Because she is left with

35:19

that feeling that extremely conflicted. I love this

35:21

scene that takes place after this. Like I

35:24

agree with every criticism you have of this

35:26

scene. It's so, and I adore this movie.

35:28

And it's not a real criticism because I

35:30

don't want it to be different. It's just

35:33

like, it's just a delight. It

35:35

is a delight. And it's where it

35:37

feels like, to me, this is like, quote,

35:39

prestige horror without being prestige. Like it never

35:41

feels to me like it's like, look at

35:43

us be better. Like it's just is a

35:45

good movie. But this is one

35:48

scene that feels like a little like malignant

35:50

where you're like, all right. But

35:52

I love this scene that takes

35:54

place after which this scene makes possible

35:57

where she is obviously sort

35:59

of. and freaked out by

36:01

what just happened and is also reconciling

36:03

feeling that, you know, she already knows

36:05

she was in her head in her

36:07

read, quote, abandoned by her mother. And

36:10

now knowing that she exists somewhere and

36:12

she didn't die. And also she had

36:15

a bunch of knowledge that Marin believes

36:17

based on where she is right now

36:19

could have helped her in specific ways.

36:22

She has to like immediately recalibrate her

36:24

feeling that she was abandoned. And

36:26

then you have Chalamet being like you actually

36:29

kind of, which no one wants to

36:31

hear while they're having this realization. You

36:33

actually have it pretty easy compared to

36:35

how it can go because he has

36:37

his whole set of things. That's why

36:39

you say it like the Denny is

36:41

the day after your girlfriend's mom tries

36:43

to kill her. Precisely.

36:46

This is the thing. This is a sign of

36:49

maturity is when you learn that in the

36:51

moment isn't necessarily the time to say everything you

36:53

have on your mind. But yeah, we have that

36:55

conflict kind of between the two of them

36:57

of two people are trying to sort these things

36:59

out. And it's also kind

37:01

of interesting that the mother

37:03

presents this final act of trying

37:06

to eat her daughter as an

37:08

act of love. Again, they always

37:11

do. Men have

37:13

never understood the amount of emotional

37:15

bloodshed that happens between mothers and

37:18

their daughters. Like the number of

37:20

murders that don't happen is remarkable.

37:26

The number of times no one gets eaten. Yeah,

37:34

it's a delight. We

37:36

get a mirror of this scene a little

37:38

bit later in the thing we'll sort of

37:40

talk about in the plot point, but like

37:42

when she sees Sully later, you know,

37:45

she says something along the lines to him of

37:47

like, it's weird that you followed me this far.

37:49

And he says this

37:51

perfect line, which is like, never

37:54

feels true when you hear it when you're

37:56

young and can't possibly feel true, but then it

37:58

really feels true of being plus

38:00

at least where he says life will get

38:02

weirder. I promise. I promise. That's

38:05

true. I didn't think that was true when I was

38:07

a teenager. I was like, and to an

38:10

extent, teenagers are right

38:12

because they at least have legal rights

38:14

as adults. But then the ways that

38:16

the world does violence to you with

38:18

that justification kind of outbalances it. Yeah.

38:21

It's like particularly with my friends who are like,

38:23

you know, at least a decade younger I'm like,

38:26

and they're like, Oh, this year has been really

38:28

tough for like, whatever it's like, this year has

38:30

been really tough. Are they all it's like, yeah,

38:33

they're all going to be taught. They're all, I

38:35

don't mean that in a shitty way, especially now.

38:37

Like everything's getting tougher in a broad way. There

38:40

will be ways that you get stronger for

38:43

sure. And there will be ways that like

38:45

you gain wisdom and learn to breathe and

38:47

all this other stuff happens, but like, yeah,

38:50

it just gets weirder. It doesn't

38:53

get. Do you think

38:55

that's why Hugh Hefner surrounded himself?

38:58

That's one of the only, I saw

39:00

it from the obvious reasons because it's

39:02

one of the only ways to ensure

39:04

that your friends won't keep dying

39:06

on you. Yeah. Oh

39:08

my God. That's another thing that

39:11

I felt sorry for Sully about

39:13

is that in younger,

39:17

even though they don't have an, he

39:19

wants there to be sort of a

39:21

romantic relationship there, I think. And

39:24

younger people are able to walk

39:27

away from relationships so much more

39:29

easily. And I feel

39:31

like an older person like him is,

39:33

Oh my God, here's my chance, you

39:35

know, to have someone. Yeah. Yeah. It's

39:37

brutal. Yeah. So there's this scene

39:40

and I'm sorry, I'm sorry to reset it. It's

39:42

like, there is this scene before I think this

39:44

scene takes place before they see the mom. Yeah.

39:46

Because this is where those two end up going

39:48

their separate ways is they, the title of the

39:50

movie comes from this phrase bones and all, which

39:54

is derived from a company. Again, these

39:56

people, Texas chainsaw energy. Oh,

39:59

very much. A serious Texas chainsaw man.

40:01

A serious Texas chainsaw man. These are classic,

40:03

like, people who listen to the show know

40:05

I grew up in like western, kind of

40:07

like central western Maine or it's

40:10

difficult to say where it is, near the New

40:12

Hampshire border. Near all those absolute

40:15

maniacs in New Hampshire. These

40:19

guys are of the flavor

40:21

of people you would like meet at a woods

40:24

party there where you're like, everyone's

40:26

like kind of a sweet, near

40:28

duo and then just like a

40:30

couple people are menacing in a way you

40:32

can't quite put your finger on but you

40:35

absolutely know you do not want to get

40:37

trapped out there with them. And

40:39

not even for like orthodox, you don't want to

40:41

get trapped out there with them reasons. It's like

40:43

for reasons you may find out about and don't

40:45

know about yet but like you never want to

40:47

know. Yeah, absolutely. It's

40:51

interesting and I don't really know how to read

40:53

this still and I've seen this so many times

40:55

but like to this point

40:57

all the people who are quote afflicted with

41:00

whatever they're going through are trying

41:02

to find ways to

41:05

reconcile the quote evil that they have

41:07

to do in order to survive and

41:10

figure out their relationship with it. And as

41:12

I understand it, this plays much more heavily

41:14

into the book, into the conclusion of the

41:16

book than that sort of

41:18

battle. One of the last lines

41:20

we will hear from Chalamet later is like am I

41:22

bad? Marin has

41:24

this question when they have to take down a

41:26

carny who we find out has like a wife and kid

41:29

at home although it was okay when they thought he was

41:31

just a written big guy. Yeah, like

41:33

my God, I never imagined the carny might have

41:35

children. Yeah, he didn't have a car seat.

41:37

He just wanted to get jerked off on a

41:39

cornfield like who does it? Who among us? And

41:42

so everyone's asking that question but then they meet

41:44

these guys who they don't care and not

41:46

only do they not care, they're like extremely boastful

41:49

about what their relationship

41:51

is to this and also

41:54

one of the guys doesn't have to

41:56

do that. One of the guys is

41:58

just like interested in participating. because it's

42:00

fascinating. And that really tests

42:02

our limit as audience members about being

42:05

like, when is it? Is

42:07

it okay? Like if you have to to survive,

42:09

but like it gets real, it's real fucked up

42:11

that this guy just wants to be part of

42:13

the culture. Yeah. Well, that

42:15

Marin like can't even continue with the

42:17

conversation. She has to get up and

42:19

go back to the car when she finds

42:21

out about the guy who does it

42:23

just for kicks. Right. Because

42:25

she's hot. I mean, her issue is

42:27

like, she's so haunted by what she

42:29

has to do that, like to meet

42:31

this externalized version of it that is

42:33

doing it for no other reason. And

42:36

I did, if I still outside of the

42:38

piece that it reminds me of with regard

42:40

to like infatuation and crushes and love and

42:42

stuff like that, that's so big about part

42:44

of like young relationships, I

42:46

still can't really wrap my head around like

42:48

what the significance of the bones and all

42:50

thing is. Cause like the boastful cannibal says

42:53

of his friend that he hasn't even

42:56

done bones and all yet. And they're

42:58

like, what is that? Like this like

43:00

a window that everyone knows when you

43:02

make broth, he says, Oh, it's like

43:04

there's before bones and all and after,

43:06

which is like before you eat a person from

43:08

head to toe, it's a metaphor

43:10

for anal. It's

43:14

getting to fourth or fifth base, whatever

43:16

it is. I

43:21

think I read that as like, like

43:23

in terms of where this movie is going

43:25

and consumption as an act of love

43:27

that like the same way that mothers

43:29

kind of nibble on their babies, right?

43:31

But like one of the first ways

43:34

that we're shown we're loved is by the

43:37

first person we ever recognize pretending

43:39

to eat us. And

43:43

then there's no better way to show Timothy Chalamet.

43:45

He's good than just

43:47

by eating him bones and all, right?

43:50

Right. Cause then he's all good. Even

43:52

his bones. So that's

43:54

what you should do with our

43:56

listeners. Right. People think that

43:58

they're getting the maximum. bang for their

44:01

buck by you saying that they're good but

44:03

what if you were eating them one by

44:05

one? Yeah,

44:09

there's just as like scenes ago, I feel like

44:11

this should have been Nominated

44:13

for best rando creep. Oh, yeah

44:16

award for the Academy Awards. You

44:18

should start having your own Academy

44:20

Awards I really should be better

44:22

categories These guys just really did it

44:25

for me this scene really did it for me and

44:27

then when she leaves, you know The

44:29

wannabe cannibal who says something along the lines

44:31

of like clearly she was upset and good thing

44:34

She has you and then our

44:36

boastful cannibal says something along the lines of like

44:38

it's him who needs the help Like we can

44:40

see it in you. You remind me of every

44:42

junky I've ever met like you think you have

44:44

it all together, but just like one thread goes

44:47

and you're all gone, right? Almost

44:49

as if he had been that

44:51

way himself at one point, right?

44:54

Yeah, right and now he's this

44:56

very natural way I'm just being

44:58

a rando creep You've

45:01

yet to find your rando creepiness Like

45:07

well, thanks for journeying into the woods with

45:09

me on that one. Yeah. Yeah So the

45:11

after they find mom they go their separate

45:13

ways. Yeah, you know and then who should

45:15

turn up again, but good old Sully He's

45:18

like listen come live with me and be

45:20

my love and also my daughter I guess

45:22

and she's like no and he's like responds

45:25

with great equanimity He's

45:30

very angry and he drives off angrily

45:32

Yeah And he specifically he does that thing where

45:34

like he's being very kind and lovely and sweet

45:37

and then when she says now He calls her

45:39

a cunt, which I feel like is like extremely

45:42

Real. Yeah textbook. Yeah. Yeah,

45:44

absolutely It's like real and like

45:46

it feels like a similar shift to like the fingers

45:48

in the mouth and it's cute And then the finger

45:51

is getting bitten Yeah,

45:55

yeah I mean one I think that you

45:57

know, there's so much so many great horror movies to be

45:59

made and this is is one of them that we have in

46:01

front of us about the actual horrors

46:03

people have in their lives. And

46:06

him being the figure of most men, so it

46:08

isn't because he's a cannibal. It's because he's just

46:10

a guy. He's got some

46:12

guy, but then, you know, things

46:16

take a turn because Marin

46:18

goes to Lee's hometown and finds his sister and kind

46:22

of got some of the backstory, which she

46:24

knows that he was accused of killing his

46:26

dad. Basically, he was almost accused, but the

46:28

police just held him for a while and

46:30

we're like, okay. And cause they couldn't find

46:32

the boat. Wow. So, you know, it's also

46:34

just tactical. And so she goes to find

46:36

him where he's living in a tent and

46:39

he tells her his Oregon

46:41

story. Yeah. The dad had been, um, oh

46:46

God, I can't quite remember this. You're

46:48

talking about Lee's dad, right? Yeah. Who

46:51

had been an eater himself,

46:53

right? Right. And who

46:55

was coming for Lee. And so Lee, instead

46:58

of killing him outright, like taped him up

47:00

and put him in the barn to just

47:03

kind of slowly die on his own and

47:07

ate him in the end as well. Yeah.

47:09

You know, and the problem with that is

47:11

that it's like using a glue trap. Right.

47:17

You know, cause like the thing is like glue

47:19

traps are inhumane because it means you're like, I

47:21

didn't kill a mouse. I guess, let a mouse

47:23

die very painfully while stuck to something in

47:25

a protracted fashion. So it saves you from

47:28

feeling like the bad guy. Um, I'm

47:31

very passionate about glue traps. And,

47:33

and so yeah, this is the thing that Lee

47:35

has been carrying with him and that's been

47:37

haunting him and he needs to be told

47:39

that he's good. Yeah. Isn't

47:41

that fascinating? And then

47:43

once the secret is out, then

47:46

they can have a little life together and

47:48

then they go to Ann Arbor, which

47:52

is where all people transitioning from being itinerant

47:54

cannibals go to try out,

47:56

you know, growing some roots. I

47:59

love that scene. I forget exactly what said.

48:01

I don't like how it's recorded. This is

48:03

such a weird tension to have. But

48:05

they have that ADR issue where like the audio doesn't sound

48:07

like the rest of the movie. But

48:10

where they're essentially saying like, what do you wanna do?

48:12

Where do you wanna go? Like let's try to go

48:14

be normal people, have jobs, let's go be people. It's

48:16

very cute. And then we

48:18

see them in their Ann Arbor apartment,

48:21

you know, cooking. He's talking to his

48:23

sister on the phone. She's reading Clan

48:25

of the Cave Bear. Right. Things are

48:27

adorable for all of like three minutes.

48:30

Which also Clan of the Cave Bear is

48:32

great because it's about someone who's different being

48:35

raised by a different kind of human. Oh,

48:37

that's great. So yeah, things are nice

48:39

for three minutes. Which is so nice

48:41

because I do feel like in sad

48:44

love stories, it would be

48:46

nice to see people creating

48:48

some memories together, if only in

48:50

a montage. Yeah, the last movie

48:52

we all discussed together was Blue

48:54

Velvet. And it

48:56

feels, the Ann Arbor sequence, including

48:59

the voiceover that leads to it,

49:01

feels a little bit like, wait,

49:03

is this happiness real? Or, you

49:05

know, how seriously do

49:07

we take this? Including maybe even

49:09

like the final shot of like,

49:12

is Maren gonna be okay? You

49:14

know, I don't know. And

49:17

again, this is a thing that just

49:19

feels so much like relationships at this

49:21

time. Or relationships, period. Where it's like,

49:24

you have that initial phase of

49:26

infatuation where you're like pumped full

49:28

of chemicals that are basically making

49:30

you mentally ill in a sweet

49:32

way. And then you

49:34

have to figure out how to exist after

49:37

that. Well, you just

49:39

keep checking people, obviously. And in

49:41

the fall, no diction. Because

49:44

she's my summer girl. And

49:46

either you realize that like you have another thing

49:49

that you can do together, or

49:51

you get stuck together for some period

49:53

of time. And, you

49:56

know, that's kind of, we don't know

49:58

the flavor of exactly what they're... apartment

50:00

time is like together, but like usually like

50:02

that's the interesting arc of any relationship is

50:04

you go from a point where it's like,

50:07

how do I spend every waking minute with

50:09

you? It's important to, you

50:11

know, we have love and we have an

50:13

agreement. Like what does that look like after

50:15

that part? And they are,

50:18

you know, spared from that by tragedy.

50:21

That's a nice way to look at it. I'm

50:24

sure that's how James Cameron picked Titanic. It's

50:26

August of 1988. So they're spending

50:28

some amount of time deciding who to vote for.

50:30

Yes. Well, then that's like

50:33

very in the air for sure. We also

50:35

like our only person we ever see on

50:37

television is Giuliani. Oh God. Which

50:39

is a really interesting. I love that. That's wild.

50:41

It's to remind everybody that he used to

50:43

actually be able to speak

50:46

quite well and isn't that

50:48

depressing time you see, etc. Oh

50:51

my God. So what happened Sarah? Well,

50:54

you know, who should show up? But

50:57

good old Sully who's like, if

50:59

I can't have you, nobody will basically. Or

51:01

you know, I'm going to take you on

51:03

the road forcibly with me or whatever. There

51:05

are no good options here, but who should

51:07

show up? But Lee with a plastic bag,

51:10

he loves to smother. It's

51:13

important to know that the most action have you

51:15

seen in this movie filled with tension. Lee

51:18

has high above the knee

51:20

jorts on. And I love that.

51:27

And so it's a wrestle to the death. They

51:29

drag him into the bathtub, I guess, because if

51:31

you're already kind of killing someone, you might as

51:33

well minimize still. It's

51:36

very pragmatic. I've been doing this for a

51:38

while. And Marin

51:40

like rips his heart out basically. Pretty

51:42

cool. Pretty great. Yeah. But

51:44

Sully has wounded Lee. He got him in the lung,

51:47

I think. And so in

51:49

a very kind of Tristan unasold

51:51

kind of a thing, he's like, let's not

51:53

go to the hospital. I just want you

51:55

to eat me. Bones and all.

52:00

And then she does and then our last shot

52:02

is a flashback to them sitting together in parents

52:05

Malick Badlands fashion in the great

52:07

American West while she kind of

52:09

spoons him topless from behind because

52:12

we all know that heaven for

52:14

some men is having boobs pressed

52:16

into you from behind. That's true.

52:18

That's true. There you go. That's

52:21

Bones and all. I loved it.

52:23

I loved this movie. I'm so happy. I had such

52:25

a lovely time. And I feel like now that we've talked about what

52:27

happens in it, the real question is like,

52:30

what does it feel like? You

52:33

know, I was so struck when I

52:35

saw it by how kind of hypnotic it

52:37

sort of felt to me. You

52:41

know, it was one of those movies that

52:43

like the next few days I was thinking

52:45

of because it put me in

52:47

a mood and took me to a particular like

52:49

time and place. It

52:53

was just so clear that it was made with a lot

52:55

of heart and soul, a lot of thought,

52:59

you know? Yeah. And

53:01

I feel like, you know, watching this movie is also

53:03

struck by I think anything with vampires. There's a lot

53:05

of allegory and a lot of potential for queer allegory,

53:08

which I definitely felt in

53:10

this movie, you know, this idea of a community

53:12

of drifters in the 80s who can't go home

53:14

for reasons they don't want

53:17

to get into, you know, and everything that we've

53:19

been talking about and have to learn from each

53:21

other. Yeah. And go into the

53:23

corn sometimes and stuff goes down, then no one can help you. But

53:28

I feel like the question of why, because I

53:31

would call this a vampire movie broadly, and

53:33

I think the question of why that metaphor and imagery serves us so well

53:35

and has worked so

53:38

well for us for so long is really interesting to me to

53:40

the point where I would even say like vampires

53:42

are real because we have created a whole kind of, you know,

53:44

a kind of, you know,

53:48

we have created a whole kind of mythology

53:50

around them and they're as real to

53:53

us as many things that actually do

53:55

exist. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I

53:57

think that with regard to allegories of

53:59

queer us with regard to like allegories of

54:01

addiction, with regard to like finding just like

54:03

subcultures generally. One thing that I don't know,

54:05

I don't want to say that like subcultures

54:08

are getting lost because that is there's a

54:10

lot of ways that that's very true and

54:12

there's a lot of ways that I think

54:14

that that's not true but like everything's become

54:16

a core or an aesthetic. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

54:18

And people have been talking about this, right?

54:20

That subcultures are becoming aesthetics. Well,

54:22

and the thing that I was talking with

54:24

Kevin about earlier is like with

54:26

that comes like a particular form

54:28

of like performative orthodoxy where it's like there's

54:31

a way to do it and there's a way to not

54:33

do it and that's sort of always shifting and the shift

54:35

is always to the benefit of the people who are kind

54:37

of like, there's a lot of people who mean it and

54:39

I'm not saying there aren't a lot of people who mean

54:41

it but then there's a lot of people performing it because

54:43

it's a good way to like monetize it. Like there's all

54:45

of this stuff that just comes with

54:47

the way the internet works now and sort

54:49

of like mass media works now and what

54:52

this speaks to again even if sort of

54:54

like the queerness doesn't speak to you or

54:56

sort of again the people see parallels in

54:58

communities who experience addiction or people who sort of

55:00

come around that way in one way or another is

55:03

like one of the fundamental

55:05

human experiences if not lived

55:07

necessarily like by way of

55:09

your interiority and the things that you feel and the

55:11

things that you think are being like

55:13

I'm not right for all of this. This

55:17

wasn't made for me. I don't know

55:20

how to exist within this. I feel

55:22

alienation is one of our most regular

55:24

we felt

55:26

feelings and themes and literature and

55:29

the vampire you know is

55:31

a really interesting way of looking

55:33

at or dramatizing it because it's

55:35

a matter of acknowledging that and

55:38

then also like trying to make

55:40

it a little sexy. It's

55:42

just like what if the alienation meant

55:45

that it's sexy? That's true. It's a

55:47

sexy way to be alienated. Yeah,

55:49

absolutely. Or what if it

55:51

came with at least some powers? Yeah,

55:55

there's a lot of I've been

55:57

exploited and yet how can I

56:00

avoid exploiting someone else, you know, which

56:02

I think is especially

56:04

in that kind of rust belt setting,

56:07

you know, it feels like you're in

56:09

the container of capitalism itself, which is

56:11

all about that, you know, yeah, yeah,

56:13

that everyone is kind

56:16

of in this big

56:18

soup of exploitation. Yeah.

56:21

Everyone's dealing with the same trauma on

56:23

some level. The thing that feels missing

56:26

too, or it felt missing, I'm

56:28

not going to say it feels missing. I don't know what it was

56:30

like to be a kid in 1980. But

56:32

the thing that is interesting to me

56:35

that I think a lot about is

56:37

like the issues that these kids are

56:39

dealing with in this movie is it's

56:41

like our parents were fucked. Yeah. And

56:43

we want to not be like our

56:45

parents. Right. That was like the catch

56:47

all goal. And then they

56:50

realized did not be or at least Marin

56:52

realizes and not being like your parents, like

56:54

you still got to go out there and

56:56

make it in some way and making it

56:58

means like killing people sometimes. Totally. And like

57:00

now the question is less like how do

57:02

I not be like my parents and like

57:05

sort of a blunt catch all, but like

57:07

what values and

57:09

goals were my parents not

57:11

able to carry through because they'd never sort

57:13

of like thought of that sort of thing.

57:15

And how do I prioritize that while like

57:17

maybe taking some of the good things about

57:19

my parents? Like it's like a slightly more

57:21

nuanced conversation. Totally. But which just came from,

57:23

you know, people having the conversation over and

57:25

over sort of across

57:27

generations. But yeah, like this

57:29

idea where it's like, I don't

57:31

want to be my parents. Great. Well,

57:34

you still have to figure out how to be.

57:36

And it turns out that the world, regardless

57:39

of where you land, makes how

57:41

to be very difficult. Yes,

57:45

absolutely. And

57:48

I want to ask, you have a

57:50

theory that Sully is just in Marin's

57:52

imagination. Oh, that's not mine. That is

57:54

a popular theory about the movie is

57:56

that Sully is a representation of her

57:58

hunger addiction. And

58:01

who stabs Timothy Chalamet? Her.

58:04

Oh. Oh. Oh. Now,

58:08

like, finally the hunger overtakes

58:10

her and she finally has to sort of

58:12

do that and then she eats them. I

58:15

find it compelling. I don't think

58:17

that that's where I land. I

58:19

think, like, the thing that the theory

58:21

enables that I don't like is, again,

58:24

this, like, very of a pre-internet time

58:26

where in order to get your knowledge

58:29

of your subculture, you needed a problematic

58:31

relationship with a man who was older than you.

58:34

Right. And that's

58:36

just how it used to work. Like,

58:39

that's truly just how it used to

58:41

work. And especially in

58:43

1988, it feels really important that that

58:45

is how the stuff was passed on.

58:48

Right. Sarah, what stood out to you

58:50

about this as someone who is new

58:52

to it? I mean,

58:54

so, you know, movies feel different lengths,

58:56

I think, based on more

58:58

than just actual runtime. And this is a

59:00

movie that felt really extraordinarily long to me

59:03

in a good way where you've been watching

59:05

it for like an hour and a half

59:07

and you feel like you've been watching it

59:09

for an entire day because there's a lot

59:11

of slowness in it. There's a lot of

59:14

landscapes and tableaus and sort of scenes

59:16

and sequences where people say not much

59:19

or nothing. And I think that

59:21

all creates a sense of space and a sense

59:23

of feeling that you can kind of settle into

59:25

this world and kind of start to

59:27

understand it before you're asked to assimilate a lot

59:30

of action or plot development. And

59:32

I think it's kind of the quietness of

59:35

it and the security and its premise

59:37

and, you know, not trying to over

59:39

explain but also being cinematic about things.

59:41

You got to give someone a handwritten

59:43

letter before you attack them. And

59:46

just, you know, I love horror

59:49

or any kind of system of metaphor

59:51

as a way of exploring something that

59:53

feels very central and universal within

59:55

the human condition, you know, and in this

59:58

kind of just the search for... love

1:00:00

and intimacy and feeling the ability to

1:00:03

give and accept love when you were raised

1:00:06

without that seeming like an option.

1:00:08

Like by being very specific, this

1:00:10

movie feels like it's able to,

1:00:13

Alex, like you've been saying, get at something very

1:00:16

central to all humans, not

1:00:18

just the cannibal kind. Yeah,

1:00:22

I love how,

1:00:25

you know, there are a lot of movies that when

1:00:27

they have a lot of ambiguity or when they have

1:00:29

a lot of, you know,

1:00:31

surrealism or just stuff

1:00:34

that doesn't seem to all be adding

1:00:36

up, you can get very frustrated. But

1:00:38

this movie, to the extent that

1:00:40

anything is ambiguous or you have

1:00:43

mixed feelings about it, it all

1:00:45

works, you know what I mean?

1:00:47

I appreciate the extent to which

1:00:50

I have such mixed feelings

1:00:52

about all the characters and

1:00:55

most of their choices and all of that you

1:00:57

know, I think that

1:00:59

that's, I don't know,

1:01:01

really kind of profound. And I love,

1:01:03

I'm at a point with reality that

1:01:06

I feel like we all are with

1:01:08

reality where it's like I sometimes don't

1:01:10

know if the thing we're

1:01:12

talking about is real or is it real because

1:01:14

we're talking about it? Like I don't, that's how

1:01:17

I feel every day that I look at what

1:01:19

we're all talking about. But like I know one

1:01:21

thing that whenever we have a lot of people

1:01:23

talking about stuff, nuance gets

1:01:26

lost, is do

1:01:28

we like and appreciate

1:01:30

and can we still appreciate

1:01:32

problematic character? And I fucking

1:01:35

love a problem. Like I don't see the

1:01:37

point. What other characters are there? Do you

1:01:39

want to watch a whole movie about Gallant?

1:01:42

No, you want to watch a movie about

1:01:44

Goofus? I think a lot of people

1:01:46

do. And like I

1:01:48

don't, and to your point, yeah, I don't

1:01:50

want to see that at all. And I,

1:01:52

people are confused that like because a character

1:01:54

is going on the quote, hero's journey, that

1:01:57

they have to represent the morality of a

1:01:59

hero. Right. And that is simply not

1:02:01

true. Also, the morality of a hero

1:02:03

is not great historically. Absolutely. Like in

1:02:05

Star Wars, you have to blow up

1:02:07

the Death Star, which as they got

1:02:09

into when Clerks may or may not

1:02:11

have involved independent contractors. Exactly.

1:02:14

I love that this movie

1:02:17

does not offer one

1:02:19

character because it's an examination

1:02:21

of like the things we have to do

1:02:23

to survive. And if we're ever honest about

1:02:25

what survival looks like, it's a fucking mess.

1:02:28

And it involves some exploitation along the

1:02:31

way, no matter how freaking we try

1:02:33

to be. And I

1:02:35

love that every character is on

1:02:37

that spectrum. And

1:02:39

then that you have, and these are people that

1:02:42

I've just met. I don't know. I

1:02:44

find a way. I find a way. I don't,

1:02:46

and I should maybe examine this to understand what

1:02:48

I'm attracting, but I find a way to find

1:02:50

those guys that they met in the woods talking

1:02:53

about being cannibals for fun. Some

1:02:55

of it is your shirts. I run

1:02:57

into those guys often. Especially in LA

1:02:59

now, but also in like rural Maine.

1:03:02

And I like that we got to spend some time

1:03:04

with those folks. Because I feel like sometimes whenever I

1:03:06

describe those kinds of people that I knew growing up,

1:03:09

some people don't even believe me and they're like, no,

1:03:11

no, no. Like this is a brand a guy. So

1:03:14

yeah, I like what this movie did

1:03:16

was it put us in proximity to

1:03:18

people who were absolutely lovable. Some

1:03:21

of them totally skeevy. Some of them

1:03:23

seemingly irredeemable, but you understand what their

1:03:25

arc is without asking

1:03:28

us to accept all

1:03:30

of their choices. Absolutely.

1:03:33

One of the things I love in

1:03:35

kink is when you play with the

1:03:38

sacred and the profane and cannibalism

1:03:40

from you as in a

1:03:42

loving way is like

1:03:45

the Eucharist. Oh yeah. I

1:03:48

can see doing something

1:03:50

where, you know, ritualistically

1:03:52

I would just like lie on a

1:03:54

table and then cover my torso with

1:03:56

some nice skirt steak. And

1:03:59

then just have somebody. I'm gonna eat it off

1:04:01

of me and be like, mmm, delicious. There

1:04:03

you go. Make some faucets. There's

1:04:08

gonna be a club for that in Portland,

1:04:10

there has to be. Yes, it's called My

1:04:12

Living Room. Actually, you might want to do

1:04:15

it in the garage, you know, because then

1:04:17

especially if you wanted people to line

1:04:20

up and eat. Definitely.

1:04:23

Definitely. It's like a

1:04:25

Stephon venue that we just described.

1:04:28

It's got everything. And

1:04:33

a human charcuterie board. What's

1:04:36

a human charcuterie board? It's when

1:04:38

a woman with self-esteem issues lies

1:04:40

down on a collapsible picnic table

1:04:43

and has people come

1:04:45

toward her in a receiving line and

1:04:47

steak bites off her torso. That was

1:04:49

perfect. Thank you. Oh

1:04:52

my God. Kevin, when we did talk about

1:04:54

this initially, and you've mentioned Tink a couple

1:04:56

of times what you did say that you

1:04:59

might see some parallels in that. Is that

1:05:01

just the subculture stuff that we've talked about to

1:05:03

this point? Well yeah, I mean, I

1:05:06

went through like two different phases of my

1:05:08

life where I felt like I was coming

1:05:11

out to myself. And the first was when

1:05:13

I was a little kid, realizing I was

1:05:15

gay. But then I had

1:05:17

a lot of struggle in my early 40s

1:05:19

too where I was introduced to a bunch

1:05:25

of Kinky folks and went to some Kink

1:05:27

camps and stuff started opening up in me

1:05:29

where I realized, oh

1:05:32

gosh, now I like... A friend, the first time

1:05:34

I went to a Kink camp, he said, oh,

1:05:37

be careful. It's a little bit like a Pandora's

1:05:39

box. You might

1:05:41

not like what you end up liking.

1:05:46

And so yeah, I went through a period

1:05:48

where I was seeing a sex therapist and

1:05:50

going through like, oh my God, I feel

1:05:52

like I'm nine years old again, trying to

1:05:54

figure out how I feel about

1:05:58

stuff that most people would

1:06:00

think is really weird. And

1:06:02

so yeah, this reminded

1:06:04

me so much of those, oh my

1:06:06

gosh, am I the only one

1:06:09

or wait, how do people make sense

1:06:11

out of this and searching for folks

1:06:13

with a, you know, who you could

1:06:16

really talk about things with in an

1:06:18

intelligent way. Then it also

1:06:20

reminds me of the idea

1:06:22

of sex addiction. You know, like I'll

1:06:24

have conversations often with people about, oh

1:06:26

my gosh, do I have way too

1:06:28

much sex. Yeah, you're

1:06:31

like, should I be bones and all

1:06:33

in this? I mean, no one, we

1:06:35

have never arrived at the correct statistical

1:06:37

amount of society, you know, so. Exactly.

1:06:40

It's got to be a personal metric.

1:06:43

As I do, people know that I have two

1:06:45

record, people who listen to the show know I

1:06:47

have two recreational activities and one is reading old

1:06:49

articles on newspapers.com. The other is

1:06:52

watching old videos on archive.org. And

1:06:54

I watched a

1:06:56

presentation from what then, I

1:06:59

don't know what year this was, must have been

1:07:01

the late seventies. It was a very stuffy group

1:07:03

of people, but they were pitching a very progressive

1:07:05

sex education for high schools, but it was not

1:07:08

for elementary and middle schools, but it was

1:07:10

for curriculum development. They were talking about that

1:07:13

and sort of how to develop curriculum and

1:07:16

they were talking about sex, obviously

1:07:18

in the physical, but they were talking about

1:07:21

just like how to talk with young people

1:07:23

about sort of like where it plays into

1:07:25

their life and dynamics and sort of like

1:07:27

what the dynamic gender dynamics are in rooms

1:07:30

and what various tensions mean. And

1:07:32

I immediately was heartbroken that

1:07:35

everyone, at least in this country is robbed,

1:07:37

not of sex education where they talk about

1:07:39

sex, like you're going to have sex, because

1:07:42

that's important, obviously, but just

1:07:44

everything I see that's fucked

1:07:46

up in one way or another about

1:07:49

this country has to do with sexual

1:07:51

repression. And Reich

1:07:53

would say that the birthplace of fascism

1:07:55

comes from the various forms of sexual

1:07:58

tension and patriarchy. the fact that

1:08:00

if you, that is a thing that you acknowledge is a

1:08:02

part of your life or like sometimes you look around

1:08:04

and you're like, this all isn't

1:08:06

for me and you don't know what the not for me is.

1:08:08

And it's the fact that like, no one is talking about the

1:08:10

thing that is on everyone's mind. Yeah.

1:08:13

Yeah. Yeah. So, so then you push people into

1:08:15

these like little subcultures where they have to escape

1:08:18

to words, dangerous, not, not the subculture inherently is

1:08:20

dangerous, but like the fact that you have to

1:08:22

go over into some corner and sort of like

1:08:24

hide out the top of the corner and then

1:08:26

you're like, it breaks my head,

1:08:29

like truly breaks my heart that we don't have

1:08:31

like the conversation starting in schools to give people the

1:08:33

skillset to understand like what

1:08:36

the rest of everything is going to be like, because

1:08:39

we're like math is important. And that

1:08:41

to me is like what this movie

1:08:43

ends up speaking to in a big

1:08:45

way is it's like, something's wrong. It's

1:08:48

not even just the way my parents were. It's

1:08:50

like just something's wrong. Like

1:08:52

why are we not, talking

1:08:55

about reality? Yeah.

1:08:57

I mean, it

1:08:59

feels like these two young people, they're thrust into

1:09:01

an adulthood where they almost have to be making

1:09:03

horrifying mistakes

1:09:08

to, to figure out where the hell they

1:09:10

really stand. Right?

1:09:13

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That's the only way. And then

1:09:15

even just like, if you think about like what

1:09:17

your first loves look like period, especially

1:09:20

if you had the kinds of issues, not just these kinds

1:09:22

of issues, do my

1:09:24

parents even, I know they, I know they like love me in

1:09:26

theory, but like they don't really know how to do it. And

1:09:29

so then you look for someone to just do that

1:09:31

and it's your first testing grounds there. Like it's so

1:09:34

messy. Really?

1:09:38

Like, yeah, the show is about the feelings

1:09:40

that we don't want to have coming at

1:09:42

us through movies in a one way or

1:09:44

another. And then you're like, if you were

1:09:46

to pitch like what about a movie about

1:09:48

these two teenagers struggling

1:09:56

with trauma and self loathing who are on a

1:09:58

road trip and they find Love and

1:10:00

themselves and stuff. You'd be like god.

1:10:03

No, I don't want to spend two

1:10:05

hours on that I'm gonna die shortly,

1:10:07

but if they're cannibals, oh, yeah, I'm

1:10:10

watching it I'll

1:10:12

have a feeling Right, right.

1:10:14

It is those highest

1:10:17

stake moments or

1:10:19

those weirdest most bizarre moments where

1:10:21

we can then just like unpack

1:10:23

a little bit of these emotional

1:10:25

patterns that we have to deal

1:10:27

with even in the most like

1:10:29

mundane Circumstances or that are

1:10:32

always haunting us. Yeah, right for sure

1:10:34

Well, and you know and in this

1:10:36

movie we have and this

1:10:38

is a paradigm We see a million times

1:10:40

in a million different ways. It's what the

1:10:42

Lion King is about. It's what Superman is about

1:10:45

I could go on but like he is someone

1:10:47

who's running from his past And

1:10:49

running from his belief that he knows Who

1:10:52

he is based on a story that he won't tell

1:10:54

to anyone and then of course the second you tell

1:10:56

that story to someone It changes meaning intimacy

1:10:59

is what Explodes open that

1:11:02

vacuum. Mm-hmm and that before we

1:11:04

die we must at least truly

1:11:06

live by being loved That's

1:11:09

the end It's

1:11:11

so good. That's amazing. It's so

1:11:14

good. Let's talk about daddy's I can't

1:11:16

it's so good. That's so good We

1:11:19

all know based on this movie that your dad

1:11:21

will abandon you Winded

1:11:23

tape, but who's the fucking daddy

1:11:26

or eat you? My

1:11:34

goodness gracious gosh Geez

1:11:39

I feel like it is a split personality between

1:11:42

those two daddies the daddy who

1:11:44

flees That

1:11:46

reminded me of like Victor Frankenstein,

1:11:48

you know like abandoning Abandoning

1:11:52

his creature and when her

1:11:54

daddy left totally and then

1:11:57

his daddy tried to kill

1:12:00

You know, so I feel like they're,

1:12:03

they're like the shadows of

1:12:05

one another as daddies. And

1:12:08

really, you know, the basic forms of dad

1:12:10

trauma, not to make it a binary, but

1:12:12

you could say that two key groups at

1:12:14

least are too much dad and too

1:12:16

little dad. Yeah. Too

1:12:19

much and too little at the same

1:12:21

time, which is what I got where

1:12:23

it's like physically he's always there, but

1:12:25

he's not available. Yeah. Yeah.

1:12:28

So well put. Sully

1:12:30

is an interesting, you know,

1:12:32

like dad surrogate, you know,

1:12:34

as that maybe he's

1:12:36

a good mentor. Maybe he's a nice

1:12:39

Socrates to my play-doh. Or

1:12:42

maybe he's grooming me to

1:12:44

eat me. And

1:12:49

if that isn't, if that isn't a lot of

1:12:51

people struggle with their father who, what is it?

1:12:54

Yeah. So I'm going

1:12:56

to, I'm going to echo, I'm not

1:12:58

going to echo Sully, but I am

1:13:00

just going to highlight Mark Rylance's performance.

1:13:02

This is an actor I don't know

1:13:04

much about. I can't name any one

1:13:06

of his other performances. Even look at, he

1:13:09

was the BFG apparently. He won an Oscar

1:13:11

for bridge of spies, a movie I've spent

1:13:13

10 years making jokes about and have not

1:13:15

watched. He was in Dunkirk, which like I

1:13:17

know about and had to have seen, but

1:13:19

only can remember like running away from bombs. I

1:13:21

don't, I don't know, but I, this is like

1:13:23

one of. Everyone wears the same outfits

1:13:26

and wore movies. It's very hard to tell. That's

1:13:28

very difficult. This is one of the

1:13:30

most affecting performances I've seen in like

1:13:32

both horror and just like a regular

1:13:34

movie. Like he does a lot of

1:13:37

theater and I think that that really

1:13:39

comes through. You know, this is a

1:13:41

weird, very lived in performance, I think

1:13:44

Sarah Marshall, who is your daddy

1:13:46

and bones and doll Alex. Steed.

1:13:49

I'm going to give this one to Taylor Russell who

1:13:51

played Marin who I've never seen in anything

1:13:53

else to my knowledge and who I think,

1:13:56

I guess, love in this. I think that she does so

1:13:58

much in quiet. and by

1:14:01

reacting and just kind of being with

1:14:03

her and Aligning with

1:14:05

this character. I think just is what makes a

1:14:07

lot of what makes this movie feel so full

1:14:10

and makes you I think You

1:14:13

know that we I think we were in a

1:14:15

place beyond like good for her or she shouldn't

1:14:17

be doing that We just kind of want to

1:14:20

we're here for the journey of what it's like for her to

1:14:22

try and find a way to have

1:14:24

some kind of a life and It's

1:14:27

yeah, it's an amazing performance. I love her

1:14:29

in this. Yeah, I agree Kevin

1:14:32

how should people find you they

1:14:34

can find me on the socials

1:14:36

at the Kevin Allison and Risk

1:14:39

is anywhere you get your Podcasts

1:14:42

also risk dash show calm

1:14:45

And if you want to find out

1:14:47

more about the state since we're reuniting

1:14:50

for even more shows this year We're

1:14:52

at the dash state calm Amazing

1:14:55

what a miracle. Thanks for being with us

1:14:57

and I look forward to the

1:14:59

next time fabulous. Thank you so much Alright

1:15:08

that's it for this week's episode of you

1:15:10

are good at feelings podcast about movies Thank

1:15:12

you so much to Miranda Zichler for producing

1:15:14

this episode Thanks, of course to Kevin Allison

1:15:16

for being in this episode Miranda also edits

1:15:18

the episode I should say thanks to fresh

1:15:20

less for providing the beats that make our

1:15:22

episodes and so sweet Thanks to Carolyn Kendrick

1:15:24

our founding and advising producer.

1:15:27

Thank you you for

1:15:30

listening to this podcast for rating

1:15:32

and Reviewing the podcast. Thanks for

1:15:34

telling your friends about the podcast. Thanks for finding

1:15:36

us on social media that you are good or

1:15:38

you are a good Pod. Thank you for supporting us

1:15:40

on patreon and Apple podcast subscriptions where you can listen

1:15:42

to a bonus episode about Mannequin

1:15:45

right now or very soon. You

1:15:47

can hear an extended version of

1:15:50

this very conversation and uh, I

1:15:53

Think that's it. I think that's all

1:15:55

you need to know right until next

1:15:57

time. Don't forget that you my friend

1:15:59

are good Thanks for talking Cannibals in

1:16:01

love with us. We're

1:16:04

happy to have this time together. Take

1:16:08

care.