0:00

This is the you winning life podcast,

0:03

your number one source for mastering a positive

0:06

existence. Each episode we'll

0:08

be interviewing exceptional people, giving

0:10

you empowering insights and guiding

0:12

you to extraordinary outcomes.

0:15

Learn from specialists in the worlds of integrative

0:18

and natural wellness, spirituality,

0:20

psychology, and entrepreneurship.

0:22

So you too can be winning

0:25

life . Now here's your host, licensed

0:27

marriage and family therapist, certified

0:29

neuro emotional technique practitioner

0:32

and certified entrepreneur coach

0:35

Jason Watson .

0:36

Sir , today's guest is an executive

0:38

recruiter and partner at the O'Connell

0:40

group, a leading executive search firm

0:42

in consumer marketing and market research.

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She has more than 25 years of experience counseling,

0:48

tens of thousands of candidates and setting

0:50

goals and leveraging their strengths

0:52

in their professional career. She has

0:55

worked in consumer marketing with brands, such

0:57

as Johnson and Johnson, Kraft foods,

0:59

Ralston Purina, and is a graduate

1:02

of Tufts university. And

1:04

also has an MBA from the Kellogg

1:06

school of management at Northwestern and

1:08

her book and night your career, you

1:10

can learn how to develop career goals that align

1:12

with your strengths, giving you a clear

1:14

path forward from proven strategies

1:17

for optimizing your resume to practical

1:19

advice on networking, finding the right

1:21

company culture, prepping for interviews

1:23

and negotiating offers. This

1:26

book is a step by step guide. You

1:28

will definitely return to, again and again

1:31

throughout your professional career. Chris Holmes,

1:33

welcome to the you winning life podcast. Thanks

1:35

so much, Jason. I really appreciate it

1:38

by then , very much looking forward to this because everything

1:40

that you are sharing with the world is

1:42

so important right now. And especially

1:45

in the young professional population, which happens

1:47

to be one of the niches that I serve the most is

1:49

that they're scrounging, especially with the pandemic,

1:51

but even before the pandemic, there

1:54

was so much myth and

1:56

mysticism around trying

1:58

to find a job in today's culture, with things

2:00

changing and culture

2:03

changing and technology changing. But

2:05

before we get into that, which is kind of the little teaser

2:07

of what we're going to get into further on in our conversation,

2:10

so that people can stick around to

2:12

hear what practical tips and

2:14

tricks one can take

2:16

from today's episode. But

2:18

most importantly, for many years,

2:20

as you and I discussed in our, in our conversation

2:23

before, is this idea of re

2:25

recruiter and recruiting

2:27

seems to be kind of a mythical animal

2:31

in the business world. And people either

2:33

are, have no clue what the heck

2:35

it is. And therefore there's all these false facts

2:37

or myths about it or talking smack

2:40

about it. And then there's people who swear up

2:42

and down by using and having a

2:44

recruiter in their back pocket. So from

2:46

your years of experience, how

2:48

would you explain it to the everyday person

2:50

and what myths and facts

2:53

do we really need to sort through?

2:56

And Jason, it's a great question. And

3:00

I'm going to come at it two different ways from

3:02

one, from when I was in marketing

3:05

and, you know, had recruiters calling me

3:07

constantly because I was really wonderful

3:09

companies. And then the second side

3:12

is from the recruiter perspective and

3:15

working with people. And what I can tell you

3:18

is, you know, as

3:20

you said, there's a myth or reality

3:22

that there are a lot of , um,

3:24

bad recruiters out there.

3:27

And what I would tell you is there

3:29

are bad recruiters out there, but

3:31

they're also really wonderful recruiters

3:34

out there. And , um,

3:36

I learned that during my marketing

3:38

days, I got a lot of phone calls and yet

3:40

there were probably two or three

3:43

that I spoke to and I trusted

3:45

and truly they became my mentors and

3:48

recruiters, the

3:50

way to differentiate and understand

3:52

if somebody is a good recruiter or a bad

3:54

recruiter. I think

3:56

a recruiter who calls you and

3:58

says, honey, I got a job for you.

4:01

Whatever their actual words are without

4:03

knowing you is just a

4:06

sales person . And they are just

4:08

trying to capitalize on your background and

4:10

your experience, and truly they

4:13

don't care about you except

4:15

for as a moneymaker for them. It's

4:18

not a longterm relationship. It's not a symbionic

4:20

rate commission for them. It's

4:22

a commission. The good recruiters

4:25

are going to call you and say,

4:29

this is who I am. This is my background.

4:31

This is how we operate. Tell

4:33

me about you. Not do

4:35

I have a job for you? And sometimes people

4:37

say, well, I'm looking, what do you have?

4:39

And I'll say, I have a lot

4:41

of jobs, but I don't want to waste your time. Remind

4:44

. I want to get to know you so

4:46

great recruiters want to

4:48

get to know you background

4:51

and then goal. You

4:53

know, what experience have you had and what's

4:55

important to you going forward. And

4:57

that's really important because then when

5:00

they do call you, they're calling

5:02

you with opportunities that meet

5:05

your experience, but also

5:08

align with what you want. And what's important to you.

5:10

The other thing is, if you can

5:12

find recruiters who are

5:14

experts in your industry, they

5:17

can be mentors and resources during

5:19

your career. And , and shifting over

5:21

to my job, working with the O'Connell group,

5:23

I've been doing it for 25 years. And

5:26

the way we operate is we get to know people

5:29

early on and we stick with them like glue. So

5:31

many of the people that I started

5:33

talking to when they were junior in their career

5:36

are now CEOs or chief

5:38

marketing officers. And I still

5:40

work very closely with them. As

5:42

they're thinking about, you

5:44

know, building their team, they're coming

5:47

to me to understand what's going on in the marketplace

5:49

to help them build their team. Um

5:52

, as they went along their career paths , they'd call

5:54

and say, okay, I'm not looking, but

5:56

my company's offering me two different jobs.

5:58

And I want your perspective of what this

6:00

can do for your careers . So

6:03

a great recruiter in your

6:05

industry can be a huge

6:07

asset, not just to help you find your jobs,

6:10

but to help you navigate your career throughout

6:14

the other one thing, Jason, that I want

6:16

to bring up, people don't know,

6:18

but recruiters are not paid

6:20

by candidates. If a recruiter

6:23

tries to get you to pay for their services,

6:26

run, don't walk companies,

6:29

pay recruiters to go find

6:32

people. So it, you know, I

6:34

just want to say that up front , but

6:36

finding great recruiters in your industry

6:39

will be something that will really,

6:43

it will differentiate you. It

6:45

will be a resource. It will be a mentor. And

6:47

if they do it well, it will be a friend

6:50

for life.

6:51

So those of us who

6:53

might be just starting off in their career,

6:55

new graduates , uh, whether

6:58

it's undergraduate or graduate school, or

7:00

they've been working for just a handful

7:02

of years and whatever field, how

7:06

to recruiters find them.

7:08

And how do you make yourself attractive

7:11

to a recruiter? Cause I know resumes

7:14

are an art and science.

7:17

We know that the new resume is LinkedIn

7:19

slash social media, Instagram

7:22

and stuff like that. So what

7:24

are some of the things that a recruiters

7:26

are looking for in order to find

7:29

a candidate to fit their niche

7:31

and B what should we be

7:33

putting out? What should the, you know, the potential

7:36

employee be putting out as

7:38

far as their personal brand, even

7:40

if they're working for some other company

7:43

or not even working for themselves, but you still have to consider

7:45

yourself having a personal brand. So what are some

7:47

tips and tricks on that?

7:49

Um , great questions . So the first thing

7:51

I tell you is, as you're doing your

7:54

internship or your first job,

7:56

talk to your boss, talk to mentors

7:58

within the company and say, obviously

8:01

I'm not going anywhere, but

8:03

I would like to build a relationship with

8:05

one or two great recruiters for the longterm

8:08

. Are there people you trust and you

8:10

like, and I am had many

8:13

students who are, you know, senior

8:15

year who call me and say,

8:17

or MBA students. You know,

8:19

my boss told me to call you, I'm

8:21

holding three different offers. I'd love

8:24

to hear your perspective. So that's the

8:26

first way you can be proactive

8:29

to find the best recruiters. In

8:31

terms of recruiters, finding you

8:34

on your LinkedIn profile, that's likely

8:36

the most effective way of them

8:38

finding you. Um , you

8:40

want to have a LinkedIn profile

8:43

that says your company's

8:45

name, your title, very explicitly

8:47

your responsibilities, and then

8:50

your accomplishments. And

8:52

as a recruiter, those are the things

8:54

that I for, you know, as I'm

8:56

calling people I know on

8:59

the right hand side will be people

9:01

who are similar to this person. And

9:03

I, you know, if I know the person I'm calling

9:05

and I'm contacting as a good candidate, I will

9:07

go look at those people. And if I

9:09

think they're great, I'll try to connect with them, deal

9:11

LinkedIn and send them a note and start building

9:13

The relationship. So those

9:16

accomplishments with

9:18

poetic license, as many people have

9:20

been known to do, and

9:22

especially when it is a numbers game. So

9:24

there's someone I've worked with in the past. And I know

9:26

that they're in a sales position

9:29

in their company and not only are they sales, but

9:31

they're also about saving

9:33

the company money by if they can find

9:36

the right person within the company, through their

9:38

position, they're saving money

9:40

from not sending it out to a recruiter to find

9:43

how do you articulate

9:46

that the best way possible? Because really

9:48

sometimes we don't know, especially

9:50

in a corporate setting, how much money you

9:52

you're actually either a saving a company

9:56

B what does that actually

9:58

translate in the eyes of the people you're working

10:00

through? I'm sorry, be it radio and into

10:02

the eyes of the people you're working through, but see, that's

10:05

your job. So maybe that shouldn't be such a

10:07

glaring thing of like, we hired

10:09

you to do this. That's not necessarily the big,

10:11

big accolade. This is what we hired you to do.

10:13

Don't toot your horn, that you're actually doing

10:15

your job. So how do you weave through

10:17

those?

10:19

Yeah. So , um,

10:22

obviously you can't put anything confidential,

10:24

right ? Either on your resume or your LinkedIn profile,

10:27

but you can do up 10%

10:30

versus year ago or what you , there are

10:32

ways to have results on there.

10:35

Um, and as you mentioned, while

10:38

yes, companies , some companies have internal

10:40

recruiters and they want

10:42

to use them when possible. And

10:45

when the job is Jason, not a high

10:47

priority, they may be

10:49

able to find candidates that are

10:51

what I call fine. They can do the job

10:54

companies come to recruiters when

10:57

they want to find superstars. When

10:59

they're trying to find bench strength

11:02

that can move up through the organization when

11:04

the role is a really high impact

11:06

role and they have already budgeted

11:08

that money. The other thing

11:11

, um, and this is kind of tying

11:13

into a little bit, what you said is

11:15

, um, you know, how to apply

11:17

for jobs. You know, there are all these

11:19

different ways of applying, and I'll

11:21

tell you, seeing that job

11:24

online and pushing that button and applying

11:26

is really low odds.

11:29

It feels good for about a second,

11:31

but usually it just dissipates

11:33

and goes into the black hole. So

11:36

I would tell students, don't

11:38

do it, take a deep breath, do it only

11:41

as a last resort. And

11:43

if you do it, make sure you have

11:45

skills bulleted at the top

11:47

of your resume, that align

11:50

with what the job is asking

11:52

for, because how you break through AI.

11:55

But you're much better off going through a recruiter

11:57

who's working on the job or networking

11:59

your way in, through somebody you've

12:01

worked with in the past or somebody

12:04

who you've networked with, or a

12:06

friend who can actually get your

12:08

resume to the right person versus

12:10

disappearing in that black hole.

12:12

So what about even rate rig using LinkedIn, using

12:15

those resources that you

12:17

see someone who works in that company

12:19

that you want to work with and you

12:21

have multiple, you know, either you have no

12:24

contacts in relationship with them,

12:27

how do you create

12:29

that relationship at that level to

12:32

leverage that as a possible

12:35

career, without coming across as self-serving,

12:37

because that's the biggest issue, right? Is that at some

12:40

point there's going to be not much value

12:42

that someone's going to bring to the table in a relationship

12:44

when you're starting off in your career. It's not that you are not about

12:47

a person of value, but the value you bring

12:49

as an, as a newer person looking to

12:51

move up in your career, isn't much to the person.

12:54

So how do you ethically, honestly,

12:56

and with integrity, create a relationship

12:59

with someone at some corporation that you absolutely

13:01

love to work at, and

13:03

you know, that job position is available. What

13:06

do you do?

13:09

Um, great question. And I would

13:11

tell you, in my book, I have a whole chapter

13:13

that it talks about networking

13:16

and how critical it is. So I'm

13:18

going to take a step back from your question, because

13:20

I believe that everybody

13:22

should be networking on an ongoing basis,

13:25

whether or not you're looking for a job. And

13:27

as a student, great

13:30

place to start is, first of all,

13:32

family and friends, those people

13:35

want you to succeed. And if you know

13:37

people in your industry or

13:39

the industry, you want to go to tap

13:42

into them and ask if they would

13:44

be willing to chat. And a

13:46

key thing about networking is you can't

13:48

say to somebody, Hey, can we talk?

13:50

I need a job. What you can

13:52

say is, Hey, would you spend

13:55

15 minutes with me? Or when we get out of

13:57

the pandemic, would you have coffee? Can I buy you

13:59

coffee? I want to hear about your journey.

14:01

I want to hear what you've learned. I

14:03

would love to get advice

14:05

from you as I navigate my

14:07

career. And I want to know if I can keep you

14:09

apprised. And if you start

14:11

doing that early, started

14:14

with family and friends, then go

14:16

to your high school and go to alumni

14:18

at your high school, go to college,

14:21

your college, and go to the alumni office

14:23

and find people in your industry.

14:26

Those are the easiest ones, because you have

14:28

something that links you with them. Then

14:30

beyond that on LinkedIn,

14:33

as you were just mentioning, Jason, I believe

14:35

you want to be active on LinkedIn. You

14:37

want to read articles

14:40

and people in your industry who

14:42

write articles that resonate with you,

14:45

you know, like , um , but then write a note

14:47

or write something saying, I love this

14:49

article because as a new

14:52

graduate X, Y, and Z,

14:54

and then you can also have to do that

14:56

message, that person and

14:58

say, Hey, I just read your article. I

15:00

love it. I would love

15:03

to have the opportunity to network

15:05

with you and really, you

15:07

know, learn from somebody who's quite

15:09

seasoned in the industry. I want to go and might

15:12

you be willing to spend a few minutes with me?

15:15

And so if you do

15:17

that on a constant, you

15:19

know, in a constant way, as I call building

15:21

that networking muscle, then

15:24

when you need a job, when you need to activate

15:26

those muscles, they are primed

15:29

and you already have a relationship.

15:31

But as you said, trying

15:34

to network, you go to a company, you see

15:36

somebody's name, you know, there's a

15:38

job you're don't really have relevant

15:40

experience for it. Reaching

15:42

out to them is going to be tough at that point,

15:45

if you haven't already done this .

15:48

One of my, one of my stories where I experienced that

15:50

was years ago, there was a community organization

15:53

that had a philanthropy

15:57

night. In other words, it was the leaders

15:59

in the Miami sports communities to

16:01

the presidents or , um,

16:04

CEOs of the different sports teams here

16:06

in South Florida on their approach

16:08

to philanthropy. And

16:10

, uh, the former owner of the Florida Marlins

16:12

was there. And , um,

16:15

one of the niches that I worked in , uh, was

16:17

sports psychology and performance consulting, which

16:19

are now bringing a lot to , uh , the business

16:22

and entrepreneur world as well , uh, in my therapy

16:24

practice and my coaching practice. But my,

16:26

my question was not

16:28

asking for a job. It was advice

16:30

on what are some of the best

16:32

ways you've been doing this for years? You have people like

16:34

me who are working for

16:37

some athletes. I do get some athletes randomly

16:39

finding me, or , uh, back in the day that would

16:41

just see my, you know, my marketing and come

16:43

to me. What has been his experience

16:46

with getting someone like me

16:48

getting in front of other people? Can

16:51

you give me some advice? So in other

16:53

words, I didn't go to them asking for the job.

16:55

I said, you've been doing this, you're the expert.

16:58

This is a small part of what you oversee

17:00

as the president of the club, right?

17:02

How does someone like me build

17:04

those relationships with someone like that on a more

17:06

consistent basis? And you gave me some really, really great

17:09

advice, and that's all

17:11

I want to write. I don't want to put it out there, but

17:13

I can hopefully came across as the, you

17:15

know, the one down paradigm

17:18

versus the I'm gonna bring you all this

17:20

value. Here's why you should hire me, but

17:22

I'm always going to be hopefully in the back of their,

17:25

of their heads. So I want the, I love that

17:27

now, hearing what you're saying, knowing

17:29

that like, okay , I did do that, right? And that was

17:31

at least 10 or 12 years ago , um

17:34

, in that paradigm.

17:36

Absolutely. And Jason, I'll give you an example.

17:38

That's in the book for anybody who hasn't read the book,

17:40

my daughter, and this was not because of me telling

17:42

him always been a huge music

17:45

fan. And she went to a liberal arts college

17:47

in Massachusetts school,

17:49

but their placement office had no clue what

17:52

to do with somebody with a music industry.

17:54

And she was able to get

17:57

two good internships, but

17:59

then she decided coming out of college. I

18:01

don't want to go to New York. I don't want to go to LA.

18:04

I love country music. I'm moving to Nashville.

18:07

And so she proactively

18:10

went to her high school and got every

18:12

single person from her high school, independent of

18:14

the industry who lived in Nashville,

18:17

same thing from her college and

18:19

sent out two or 300 emails

18:22

saying, Hey, this is my story.

18:24

I'm moving to Nashville. I'm planning

18:26

to come there over spring

18:28

break, but proactively,

18:31

would you be willing to have a conversation

18:33

I'd love to get to know

18:35

you your story and get your advice. And

18:37

she had probably 30 telephone

18:40

calls with people everywhere, from dentists

18:42

to lawyers, to,

18:45

you know, somebody else, but they all held , had

18:47

a connection with her because of the school.

18:49

She went to Nashville over spring

18:52

Bay break had a bunch of informational interviews

18:54

moved there in July,

18:57

had some more interviews and within two weeks had

18:59

two offers. So that's,

19:03

I mean, it is,

19:06

and she did it on her own, but it's just the

19:08

work you have to do.

19:10

Let's talk about those numbers for a second, because I see this

19:13

as, you know, the

19:15

last couple of years where I've spent hanging out and learning

19:17

from some really massive entrepreneurs. And , um,

19:20

that I do know that at the end of the day, it's a numbers

19:23

game. And I know that like when a client

19:26

potential client calls me, right, there's the cold lead,

19:28

the warm lead in the hot lead. And there's even

19:30

hot leads that I'm turning it on . In other words, they

19:32

were told by a good friend of mine that they should absolutely

19:34

come see me. And there's no one else you should go

19:36

to and they're ready to plunk down the money.

19:39

And the only thing that needs to happen is whether or not they're

19:42

an appropriate client for me to be seeing or not.

19:44

And that's up to me and that's the way I've really

19:46

positioned myself over the last couple of years of learning

19:48

that, like, I don't have to see everybody.

19:51

I only want to see the people I love and enjoy

19:53

and want to hang out with, even if they weren't my clients

19:55

in a very specific niche, the

19:57

worried, well, the motivated, the entrepreneurial

20:00

and stuff like that, but it's

20:02

a numbers game. So I know that for

20:04

every 10 people that are going to call

20:08

for might want to work with me in

20:10

theory, three are willing to

20:12

pay the money, right ? One

20:15

or two are only the ones that are willing to accept

20:18

as a client, right?

20:20

So when sending out resumes, when making

20:22

contact, when networking, it's

20:25

not the , like you said, Oh, I clicked on

20:27

the three jobs in indeed and

20:29

my job is done, right? It's it

20:31

has to be at , I'm hearing two things that I maybe

20:33

want to get your confirmation on

20:35

one, your resume needs to

20:37

change in your cover letter, absolutely needs to

20:39

change for every single one, as specific

20:41

as possible identifying facts

20:43

or things about the company that you align with your

20:46

values that I love. These are my values

20:48

too. I always talk with my clients

20:51

in my courses, in my workshops of

20:53

my eye , as a mind body

20:55

wellness practice, which we talked about before. If

20:57

someone comes in as an associate to work with

20:59

me, drinking a soda, there's

21:01

no interview, right? Because

21:04

it doesn't represent brand. I don't care if they

21:06

say, but I love yoga. And I have an M and

21:08

I meditate. There's just still something, that's

21:10

a cognitive disconnect for that. Cause

21:12

that's not the brand of that I

21:14

, that I put out as the brand of my practice.

21:17

And, and even when I take that

21:19

as a core value, even to my personal

21:21

life, even with dating, I

21:23

won't date a psychiatrist, I won't date a pharmaceutical

21:26

rep rep because it's, I'm

21:28

trying to help people get off medication through nutrition,

21:30

exercise, mindfulness, and good therapy.

21:33

And that's contradictory. Not that they're doing bad

21:35

things. There's many useful

21:37

things for that, but it's just not within my

21:40

consistency of core, core values.

21:42

So how right . So I think, right. I want people

21:44

out there to hear that if you're going for jobs,

21:47

you also have to look at your ethics

21:49

in your morals and your core values. So,

21:52

right . I also joke like I have my buyout number. If a company

21:54

wants to reach out to me here , if a recruiter wants to reach

21:56

out to me say, we have the perfect job that needs

21:58

an in house professional

22:02

that has this mindset of wellness and mind, body

22:05

Coca-Cola is not going to get me right

22:07

. North face Patagonia,

22:10

someone that is specifically focused on doing

22:12

things for the world versus profit only,

22:14

or, you know, leaning

22:17

towards our way. That's a core value decision for me.

22:19

So Coca-Cola can offer me 400 grand a year,

22:21

but it's probably going to be a now. Yeah

22:25

. So how do you take that? So how do you apply all that from your

22:27

perspective?

22:29

Um, that kind of ties into my chapter on

22:31

culture fit. And

22:33

, um, I really do

22:35

believe there are no good and bad companies,

22:38

but there are really good and bad company

22:40

fits. And by that,

22:43

I mean, it's a combination

22:45

of do the company's values align

22:47

kind of like you were just talking about and

22:50

beyond that it's do

22:52

you feel like you can be yourself day in and

22:54

day out at the company or do you have to pretend

22:57

to be like everybody else and

23:00

you know, is it really uncomfortable

23:03

and is it taxing? It doesn't

23:05

wear you out. Um, I

23:07

have had many people who were in roles

23:10

that they were doing fine

23:12

in the job, but they were not happy. And

23:15

we really peeled back the onion to diagnose

23:17

it. Wasn't the job itself. It wasn't the career.

23:19

Those were right. It was where

23:21

they were doing it. And we assessed what

23:23

they were , what was wrong and what they were looking

23:25

for and found another company where

23:28

they culture aligned. And

23:30

they would say things like, I feel

23:32

like every day I'm going home, like I'm

23:34

part of a family. And in the flip side,

23:37

when the culture fits not right, I

23:39

had people tell me, you

23:41

know, I have to stop by

23:43

the side of the road every day, cry before

23:45

I go in to make it through. Or I

23:48

pray for red lights on the way to work

23:50

because I so dread going there

23:53

We'll be there. Right. We don't have to. And that's really

23:55

what I think. You and I, in some, in

23:58

many ways you're doing therapy.

24:01

Oh, absolutely. I was a psychology major

24:03

in undergrad. And thank God because

24:06

it is, it's not, not, it's not black

24:08

and white. There's so many intangibles

24:12

in terms of finding the right career, the

24:14

right culture, the right fit. Um,

24:17

it's, it's both personal and professional.

24:19

Well, that's why I love starting off

24:21

any of my therapy or coaching or consulting

24:24

is I can't help you unless I know what

24:26

your core values are. Right. And

24:28

I always use that, that , um , that

24:31

example of a bunch of years ago, there was a match.com

24:33

commercial that came out on TV. And

24:35

I think she was either, she was probably from Australia. That's

24:38

a , her accent sounded like that. And it's in the upper West side of

24:40

Manhattan or somewhere in Manhattan. And he's like,

24:42

do you want to try online dating? She's like, all right, fine. She's

24:44

and she goes, the person interviewing

24:46

her goes, what are you looking for? She's like, I don't

24:48

know. I want someone funny and kind

24:50

and nice. And

24:53

I'm like, well, that should be a given, not like a

24:56

high standard. Right. So that is

24:58

so as I share that with my clients,

25:00

and now I go , yeah, I know my core values. Okay. What

25:02

are they? And

25:05

usually they're might throw out one or two or three buzzwords.

25:08

Right. And I'm like, okay. And then if that's true,

25:10

those are your core values. Are you making binary

25:12

decisions on every single day things

25:15

through that lens, 99%

25:18

of the time they say now , or they're like, well,

25:20

maybe, I guess I really don't know. And I've been

25:22

just using those cause those are sound good. So

25:25

I won't work with a client

25:28

once I get understanding, once I agree to work

25:30

with red , some already starting work with them. But between the first

25:32

and third session, I'm already having

25:34

them work on a

25:37

practical crystal clear

25:39

list of core values with definitions

25:41

of what they mean to them. So that

25:43

as we go through whatever challenges

25:45

that they're facing, whether it's a business, whether it's

25:47

a relationship, whether it's whatever's going on,

25:51

we can just go back to the list and say, will this

25:53

be solved by

25:55

just running it through this list and making it

25:57

yes or no ? Right.

26:01

So I would challenge people out there to come

26:03

up with that in . And if they go to , um , the links

26:05

on, on our social media, they can find this list,

26:07

this values based decision making lists that I

26:09

give out to people for free. You

26:11

can decide how

26:14

to find that company culture based on, well,

26:16

how do I know what I'm looking for? Well, that sounds right.

26:19

I would love to work in this type of company. Okay. But will

26:21

that be helpful for you? So, so how does

26:23

one know their emotionality? Because I know the mental

26:26

health piece is something that I would love to

26:28

talk about with you. When you're saying people come home,

26:30

they're driving home, they're crying, they're wishing there's a red

26:32

light there. They're working for a toxic

26:34

supervisor. They're working for a toxic boss.

26:37

They're not getting support. They're not being

26:39

heard. They're using these

26:41

excuses of, I should further along in

26:44

my career have only my company allowed me

26:46

if they supported me more of my supervisor respected

26:48

me more. If I can't go to HR

26:51

because HR really doesn't exist.

26:53

And they're really best friends with my supervisor.

26:56

Anyway, how do

26:58

people navigate that? Which one are legit,

27:00

real Twitter excuses.

27:03

And how does

27:05

one just decide to like, do you know what this is just so toxic.

27:08

Maybe it's better for me to be unemployed. What,

27:10

you know, then go back one more day versus let

27:12

me work through this until I find another.

27:14

Yeah. So it's a great question.

27:16

And Jason, I

27:19

think there are some people that

27:21

are what I'll call, ER, everything

27:25

happens to them. They get it . And

27:31

I think before

27:33

anybody , um , makes any rash

27:36

decision , first of all, they've got to look at themselves

27:38

and they've got to look at their track record and

27:41

do they have a track record of

27:44

not, you know, not

27:46

living up or losing roles or

27:48

getting poor performance reviews. Um,

27:52

and that's one thing that the answer is, yes,

27:54

they need to do two things.

27:57

One they need to assess am I in the

27:59

right place? You know, M

28:02

you know, is the career path that I'm on aligned

28:05

with my strengths. And I'm a huge believer

28:07

that, you know, when

28:10

you are aligned with your strengths and

28:12

you're leveraging them in your job day

28:14

in and day out, and you're going to be successful,

28:17

and you're going to be happy, plain

28:19

and simple. If you are not,

28:21

it's going to be a grind every single

28:23

day. And so that could be the case. You

28:25

could be on

28:28

a wrong career trajectory

28:30

because of either family

28:32

pressure or what is called fear

28:34

of missing out. You saw other people get these finance

28:37

jobs and big pay. You're like,

28:39

Hey, I want that. But man, or

28:41

you're not analytical. So that's

28:44

the first thing

28:46

Better in that they might be better off.

28:48

In other words, I have this idea of who they think they are

28:51

and they're aiming for a job or career, which they think

28:53

that they're capable of doing those things on . Those are actually

28:55

really not their skillset .

28:58

Absolutely. And there are

29:00

assessments. You can take their strengths

29:02

finders. There's one called youth science.

29:04

I love them. Both you, science

29:07

is newer. And what they have you do is

29:09

play nine computer games. And

29:11

through that, they can map how your brain

29:13

is wired and people who

29:15

have taken either of the tests come back and

29:17

say, this is scary.

29:20

It's like they read my, my diary.

29:23

Um, but it's really great because it helps you

29:25

hone in on those strengths. And then they give you different

29:27

options here, areas where those

29:29

strengths set you up to succeed. So

29:32

that's the first thing , um ,

29:34

I'm cracking up on the side of what you just said about,

29:36

like, it's scary that you read my diary yesterday. I was in session

29:38

with a client and I said something to

29:40

them , uh , as they were saying, sharing some

29:42

information with me and her

29:44

face dropped. And she's like, I

29:46

wrote that in my dire , in my journal last night.

29:48

I'm like, yeah, I know I read it.

29:50

Yeah .

29:54

I mean, there's, there's, there's, you know, as,

29:56

as we're looking at this, like you, and I know the science behind

29:58

it, you and I know personalities, you, and I know

30:01

that there's, there's a certain amount of archetypes

30:04

at a certain point , right? There's not an unlimited amount of

30:06

possibility of personalities or challenges or issues.

30:08

It's just, you know, environment

30:11

a with personality

30:13

type B in this

30:15

type of situation, C and there's only so

30:17

many variables that can come around and

30:19

we know this. And what I was thinking

30:21

about what you were, what came to my

30:23

mind is that the people who might be most

30:25

stuck in these issues or frustrated

30:28

or feeling like they're not getting supported, where

30:30

else are these things also showing up in their life,

30:32

outside of their professional career and

30:34

thematically where these things,

30:37

a problem for them, because what shows up in one place

30:39

will probably show up in

30:41

another place. And

30:44

do you walk them through that? Like you said, like you helped them

30:46

on package out and figure out what's really going

30:48

on. Where does

30:50

the therapeutic process or partnering

30:52

with therapists come into this

30:55

for the recruiting field, or specifically

30:57

with what you're doing at your level to

31:00

help them on package and figure these things out. Whether it's

31:02

an environmental thing at a job they're already at, or

31:05

they're not, they're going from job to job, not happy,

31:07

or they're not being able to land or find a job

31:09

at where does the therapeutic process go hand in hand

31:11

with that?

31:15

Um, you know, every day first,

31:17

well, I'll tell you every conversation and,

31:19

and you know, what we try to do, or what

31:22

I try to do is talk to people , um,

31:25

and, and really understand

31:27

what are the things they love doing. You

31:29

know, if you look at your role, what

31:32

are the things you love doing? What are the things you hate doing?

31:34

That's the first thing then?

31:37

How do you like to operate? Do you want somebody

31:39

to give you a playbook? And you're really

31:41

good following, you know, learning the rules and following

31:43

that, or use somebody who wants to

31:45

work autonomously, you align

31:48

on goals and objectives, but then

31:50

let , let me go and let me do my thing.

31:52

And I'll deliver success. Two very

31:54

different cultures to different people. Um,

31:57

and then, you know, they're

31:59

our bosses. That's the other variable. There

32:02

are great bosses and there are not great bosses.

32:04

And I have personally worked for somebody who

32:06

was a horrific boss , um,

32:08

and it's tough. And, and,

32:11

you know, at that point, I didn't realize

32:13

that every single person who worked for him also

32:16

hated him . And he was awful to them.

32:18

Cause you just are in your own little bubble. So

32:21

during those times, I would tell

32:23

you reach out to past bosses, past

32:25

mentors. You know, don't

32:27

assume that you were the one and only

32:30

reach out and get advice from people.

32:32

And if there are specific things

32:34

that you can talk to write them down,

32:36

and it is okay to go to HR, because

32:40

if this person has a track record of

32:42

being inappropriate or doing the wrong things

32:45

or not being HR probably knows

32:47

about it and they want more information

32:50

and they'll help you navigate my

32:52

personal situation was , um,

32:56

express was awful. And I felt like this black

32:58

cloud over my head. And then

33:00

one day I, and I actually was pregnant at

33:02

that time. And my doctor put me on bed rest because

33:04

there was so much stress. And then

33:06

I got a phone call saying, we'd

33:09

had an organizational shift. That

33:11

person is no longer your boss. You're now

33:13

in this group. And I swear, Jason, it was

33:15

like spring came, the sun came

33:18

out. Um, and

33:20

so there are times where it can

33:23

be, you're under a bad boss cloud. You

33:25

just have to figure out how to navigate

33:27

it. And it was actually talking to somebody yesterday

33:29

who was in that situation and

33:31

trying to give him strategies. And

33:35

we talked about how he could go to

33:37

his boss and say, look, my main

33:39

job is to make you look good,

33:43

help me understand what your objectives are

33:45

so I can help you achieve them

33:47

so that you can shine. Because if you

33:49

shine, we all win. And

33:52

by doing it that way, even though they

33:54

may not be a great boss, you're

33:56

aligning with them versus

33:59

adversarial position, and

34:01

that might help and might get

34:03

them to give you a little leeway.

34:06

Yeah. So from the self awareness

34:08

perspective, which is the angle I love

34:10

focusing on is how

34:12

do you know if it's you being

34:15

the problem and your rape versus

34:17

it's actually the boss or the culture? Like

34:19

how do you really get that raw and honest

34:22

perspective? Because we all tell stories and

34:24

we all tell stories and narratives that favor

34:26

us. Um, and I just

34:29

did an exercise. And one of my , um, I've a Tuesday

34:31

night, a group coaching

34:34

call, and one

34:36

of the exercises I had them do was tell a story

34:38

where they're absolutely completely convinced that

34:40

they were the victim. And I split them up into groups

34:43

, um, through zoom. Cause you can break them up into a

34:46

[inaudible] zoom. You can break up people into groups , which is

34:48

a little private groups. I said, you have three minutes to

34:50

convince the person in your room that

34:53

you're a victim and you have to come and you have to tell

34:56

the story that you've always been telling that has already

34:58

led you to believe that you're a victim in this situation.

35:00

Now don't go into anything that's will be therapeutic or whatever,

35:03

you know, massively confidential, but like a story that you went through, you're

35:05

like, I'm absolutely convinced that that person

35:07

is wrong. And because of that , my suffered and

35:09

they did that and they all came back. Yes, yes, yes. Okay.

35:12

Now I want you to go back into that same group. And

35:14

now we tell the story where

35:17

at any given point, along the way,

35:19

or at multiple given points, along the way,

35:22

you could have taken accountability for doing something

35:25

different. Now,

35:29

go spend five minutes telling that story.

35:32

What could you have done now, looking back

35:34

in hindsight, at point a point B point

35:36

C pointy, and

35:39

one of the people came back into the room and they're like, I really

35:41

not happy with you right now, to

35:43

me.

35:45

That's great.

35:47

Yes . And they're really, they're very high

35:49

level self-aware person, but

35:51

it was the Braybrook what I'm hearing is that like

35:53

we're so stuck in a narrative that

35:57

my boss is in a hole or I

35:59

hate this company. They're not letting me succeed.

36:02

Don't they realize how talented I are. Don't they

36:04

realize how much I want to do good for them, but

36:09

it might be you , it

36:11

might be it , it might be them also,

36:13

but you can only take accountability and ownership

36:15

for your crap to

36:17

how do you break through that ? Because that's really,

36:20

I think I would, would you say like what

36:22

percentage of actual company

36:24

issues are actually that, that it's really

36:26

you, it's not the, the environment

36:28

and it's not your boss, although that may be obviously

36:30

humans are humans are humans, but drilling

36:34

it down, cutting through all the BS, like what number would actually

36:36

say, Hey dude, or ma'am you

36:39

might need to play that out with a therapist.

36:43

Um, I would say it's probably

36:46

a quarter and

36:49

it could be higher, but you

36:51

know, there are people who have track records.

36:55

Um , and those are the people who,

36:59

you know, it's kind of like you say, Hey,

37:01

you know what this has been going on. Are

37:03

you , you sure. You know, you want

37:06

to be CEO and you're acting like

37:08

a CEO, but you're an ABM, which means you've

37:10

got to do the grunt work. And

37:12

so there are people that have that track record

37:15

that in our field many

37:17

times , um, it's a

37:19

couple of different things. It could be the job doesn't

37:21

align well with their strengths. So they just, it's

37:23

not that they have to leave the company it's that they

37:26

probably need to look at a different job within the company.

37:28

It could be that the company's strategy

37:31

has changed. And Jason,

37:33

that does happen where they were focused

37:35

in marketing. They got a new CEO who came from

37:37

sales. Now they're sales focused

37:39

and building those brands is

37:42

not important and they're not putting

37:44

money behind it. So they're all

37:46

different things that happen in the work world. But

37:48

what you're saying is definitely reality.

37:51

And I think if it happens

37:54

multiple roles, people need to

37:56

step back and look at,

37:59

you know, their ownership of what's

38:01

going on. And, and did they

38:03

really , um, you know,

38:05

hunker down and , and do the job to

38:07

the best of their ability or is their ego

38:10

driving on where I shouldn't be doing

38:12

that. So they don't.

38:13

Hmm . Interesting. So if,

38:15

so, if I'm a company and I'm hiring you to find someone,

38:20

and again, you've been doing this for so many

38:22

years, what's one thing.

38:24

So I'm gonna ask it from the company side first, and then I'm going to ask

38:26

it from the potential employee side, but what's one thing

38:29

that you wish companies where

38:31

we're picking your brain and taking

38:33

your influence or a recruiter's more

38:36

about that. They're not,

38:38

or that they're not focusing enough time on or

38:41

leveraging and utilizing recruiters

38:45

as well as they could.

38:48

Um, I'm going to say two things. One

38:50

is timeliness, you

38:52

know, even in this market, the

38:55

best candidates move

38:57

fast and are recruited. And so companies,

39:00

who've got a C five, 10

39:02

candidates and take forever

39:04

to make decisions are gonna lose the best one.

39:06

That's one thing I think the other thing

39:09

that clients have to realize is it

39:11

is a two way street and

39:13

they've got to sell themselves

39:15

as well. So they've got to give us the

39:18

information and, and

39:20

the knowledge and the tools to create

39:22

a story about the company that's

39:24

truthful, but is also

39:27

resonates with our candidates

39:30

because our candidates, if they're superstars,

39:32

they're doing well and their company doesn't want to lose

39:34

them. So they've gotta be excited

39:36

to go someplace that

39:38

offers something different. So I think that's

39:41

the other thing realizing, you

39:43

know, we're not just looking for bodies, we're looking for

39:45

the best bodies and to get them,

39:48

we need to as partners.

39:50

And if you're the recruitee,

39:53

you're the potential employer, what

39:55

do they need to be focusing on that? They're not

39:58

right? What do they need to be really pulling and

40:00

extracting from you? Cause , right, right . It's low frequency

40:02

stuff and high-frequency stuff. What's the high

40:05

frequency stuff that probably most

40:07

people aren't getting around you, but you wish that

40:09

they did more proactively by

40:11

you, but by utilizing you,

40:14

Are you talking about candidates? Candidates?

40:17

Okay . So , um,

40:20

there's so much beyond the

40:22

title and the money in

40:24

a role. Um, and so

40:26

I think candidates really diving

40:29

into the culture and the company and

40:31

where it's going, you know,

40:34

and where the job can lead

40:36

in terms of the career path and

40:38

how other people have succeeded

40:41

and made a difference. And what

40:43

the culture is, those kinds of intangibles,

40:46

I think, are critical for happiness.

40:48

In reality, a title

40:50

and money. You're

40:53

going to forget about them day in and day out. That's

40:55

not going to be your drivers. It's going to be

40:57

your fit with the company, your

41:00

ability to deliver success.

41:02

You're feeling like you're appreciated.

41:04

Those are the things that are going to make you happy

41:07

and love your job.

41:08

Sounds like you should be re the you

41:10

meaning the person who's the , uh, the

41:12

potential employee. Those of us who

41:15

are looking for jobs, those out there who are looking for the job

41:17

should be focusing more on what problems

41:20

they're well equipped to solve best

41:22

versus the job title and or, and

41:25

or position. And that's kind of what they should

41:27

be leading with. And that's what they should be looking for. That's

41:29

what they should be putting their most attention to. And

41:31

an amplifying that is that you're saying

41:34

It really is. And , and making

41:36

sure, as you said, the values align

41:38

and they feel like they would fit within the culture.

41:40

But all of this being said, Jason,

41:42

as people are interviewing, it's

41:45

a , this sounds contradictory, but it's not.

41:48

They need to focus on selling themselves

41:51

everything they do in an interview,

41:53

connecting with the people, doing what I call

41:55

wooing and wowing , um

41:57

, bringing your skills and your experiences

42:00

to life, your fit with the company, the

42:02

questions you ask are all selling

42:04

yourself. It's not until

42:07

you get the offer that

42:09

you can flip the tables. And at that

42:11

point you can ask what I call with them's questions.

42:14

What's in it for me, things like,

42:17

talk to me more about your culture. What

42:19

do you guys have summer hours? What's your 401k

42:21

match? What does progression

42:23

look like for me at this organization?

42:26

If you ask those questions too early,

42:29

you're going to stop the process and

42:31

you won't go forward. So there's

42:33

a time and a place for everything.

42:36

So let's tie it all together with one of the things that

42:38

I know we want to talk about that we talked

42:41

about in our pre-conversation, which

42:43

was those that are starting off

42:45

in the young professional age

42:49

bracket, where there's so much

42:51

more passion focused on a specific

42:53

cause or a specific problem or a theme

42:57

versus going out and just getting a job

43:00

versus trying to find that job or create

43:02

a job or create a company based on that, solving

43:05

that passion or that problem, right. The passion

43:07

versus the practicality. So what are your thoughts

43:09

and experiences on that? And what advice would

43:11

you give stuck in

43:13

that position?

43:14

Yeah, a great question. And

43:17

what I would tell you is I

43:19

, I am in awe of this generation's

43:21

passion. I mean, I really think

43:23

they will change the world. That

43:26

being said, I don't think passionate

43:28

the early stage of your career should drive

43:30

your decisions. And in my book,

43:33

I talk about the phases of your career. There's

43:35

learn, do leverage. And

43:38

in the learning phase, it is so

43:40

critical to build a really strong

43:42

foundation. And by that, I mean, you want

43:44

to develop superior skills working

43:47

for either the best company you can or working

43:49

for somebody trained at the best. And

43:52

that is critical because that foundation

43:54

will allow you to build your career higher

43:57

and deliver more success. But it

43:59

also will give you the opportunity

44:02

down the road. Should you decide

44:04

to blend your experience with

44:06

your passion, but if you don't build that foundation,

44:09

you will never be able to do the one, two

44:12

punch. Um, so

44:14

I think it's really critical to

44:16

separate them while

44:19

you're starting out. And while you're in the learning

44:21

and doing phases at the leveraging

44:23

phase, you may have the opportunity to merge

44:26

them back together.

44:27

So are there companies out there and I'm finding this,

44:30

that people, again, there's questions that people

44:32

don't know to what to ask. Right.

44:34

Right . So one of my clients is very

44:36

passionate about a very

44:38

specific problem

44:41

that they'd like to solve in the world and

44:43

the charities related to that. And

44:45

they work for a big corporation. Um,

44:48

and they just found out by asking

44:50

by saying, listen, I'd love to do this more. I'd love

44:52

to volunteer , to find some volunteer time. Is

44:55

there something that the company , uh, will

44:57

support me in doing this and

44:59

come to find that actually that charity

45:01

is actually one of the charities that they already support.

45:05

That's great. And up until

45:07

we had this conversation of saying, why

45:09

not see if they'll help fund it at

45:11

some level, right. And who can you talk

45:14

to? And where's corporate sponsorship. That

45:16

person was thinking that they would have to leave

45:18

corporate life to go into

45:20

a nonprofit in order to have influence

45:23

sacrifice. Right? Unfortunately, the

45:26

misnomer is that at working for a nonprofit means

45:28

you might make less. And there are those that you can

45:30

use that might, that might happen to you. But

45:32

until the realization we had this call yesterday,

45:34

he's like, Oh my God, I don't have to leave

45:36

my corporate job. I'm going tomorrow

45:39

morning from seven to 10 o'clock

45:41

and getting paid as

45:44

a half day of my work to go volunteer

45:47

for this nonprofit. That I'm absolutely that . And

45:49

he had, he was crying

45:51

Well, and that's awesome. And , and many

45:53

companies have that and

45:55

many companies are open to that.

45:58

Um, again, that would be a great question to

46:00

ask when you're holding the offer, you

46:03

know, I'm passionate about these areas,

46:05

you know, would there be an opportunity

46:07

down the road for me

46:09

to engage the organization in

46:13

some ways supporting, and they might say,

46:15

you know, once a month we give people a half

46:17

day off to go volunteer

46:20

somewhere. And so if you want to go volunteer

46:22

there , great. If you want to get at your team to

46:24

go volunteer, there we're a

46:26

hundred percent behind it. So they

46:28

absolutely will do it. And truly

46:30

there are opportunities within

46:32

corporate America for either rotation

46:36

within the nonprofit or

46:38

areas, you know, whether it's sustainability

46:41

or diversity or whatever else,

46:43

people's passions are to do

46:45

a rotation. And I have some of my candidates

46:47

who didn't shift it over to

46:50

those areas as a career within corporate

46:52

America. So , um

46:54

, but that's after they got their foundation

46:56

and they prove themselves and they were valued

46:59

at the company that they were able to do it.

47:01

They couldn't just walk in because, Hey,

47:03

I love this, but I don't know anything

47:06

about what I'm doing. Are they going to be

47:08

a viable? Okay .

47:09

And isn't it beneficial, I guess, for the, for the

47:11

companies, other corporations, to have these

47:14

passionate employees being brand

47:16

ambassadors as

47:18

a represent, instead of saying like, no, that's something unfortunately

47:20

we'll have to do on your own time. We're

47:22

thinking out of the box where they can say, wait,

47:25

I have this employee who's super passionate about

47:27

something and they're a good

47:29

employee. Why can't I have them be a

47:31

brand ambassador and have them be super passionate about

47:33

the fact that they work here and super passionate about

47:35

the nonprofit or the problem that they want

47:38

to solve and bring those together. And that

47:40

will create that's free marketing for

47:42

these companies.

47:44

A great example is my son,

47:46

who's going back to business school now worked for Amazon.

47:49

And Amazon had a program

47:51

where they supported their

47:53

employees as big brothers and big

47:55

sisters. And so my son

47:57

did that and once a month,

48:00

his little brother would come to campus and

48:02

they'd have lunch and spend a couple hours together.

48:04

So Amazon not only supported it, they

48:07

really helped make it seamless.

48:09

And my son loved it and

48:12

he was adding value and the corporation

48:14

got allowed out of it and probably

48:16

had even built his loyalty to

48:18

the organization because they did that.

48:21

Yeah. And I know a lot of these corporations , um

48:23

, cause I do have clients in all these different fields

48:25

that are, that I'm working with from a , from a therapy

48:27

or coaching side, that a lot

48:30

of these companies know that you're not going to stay with them forever.

48:32

And that the year the it's the jumping

48:34

off point for them in their career. And

48:36

one of the questions I have my , my clients

48:39

ask is, is there funding

48:42

for outside additional training, coaching

48:45

certificate programs? You know, I know

48:47

that like there's all these online courses, you can get

48:49

a certificate in this type of management that

48:51

the program, you know, that your job might pay

48:53

for, or is there an internal

48:56

educational platform, like a virtual

48:58

right arm that I can have access to

49:01

because I know Amazon has a massive

49:03

one for that. And

49:05

, um, that I can have access to.

49:07

Cause one that shows that you are, you want to learn more,

49:10

you want to do more and you're willing to do this

49:12

on your own time. It's not like I'm expecting to get paid for

49:14

it, but that it might already be there that most people

49:16

don't, again, like a lot of times I'm finding

49:18

people don't even know to ask, right

49:21

. Because I thought it would be a possibility

49:23

even task.

49:24

And I think that's great and many companies

49:27

will do that. They will pay for outside

49:30

education if they see it, not

49:32

necessarily applying to the exact

49:34

role you're in today, but building

49:36

your capabilities for the longterm .

49:39

Well, that goes back. I think to what you're saying about finding that mentor

49:41

or that person above you in the company that can give

49:43

you that insight to

49:45

say, here's what you're going to need to know. As you

49:47

move up, start leveraging that.

49:49

Now I have this, a conversation with a , with another client

49:52

and they work for again , got another big conglomerate

49:55

corporation here. And I said, where do

49:57

you want to be in the next five years? Like, why want to make

49:59

this amount of money? And I would love to be at this position.

50:01

Okay. Number one, do you have the education requirements

50:04

that they require from the company culture? Right

50:06

? If not, is there anything in house

50:09

that will allow you to get that education that you need

50:11

to get those skills? And if not,

50:13

is there any local community colleges or any

50:15

online programs, even if it's not accredited,

50:18

but if you go and you do this mentorship program,

50:20

this coaching program, this Tony Robbins , bro

50:22

, whatever it is, anything out there to

50:24

get these unique skills and you say,

50:26

I this a 30 hour program on

50:29

database management, whatever it may be right

50:32

. As proof positive. And here's right.

50:34

And here's what I learned. And here's the bullet points of the program.

50:37

A lot of these companies will be like, Oh, okay, cool.

50:40

Yeah. We usually do hire someone who has

50:42

a degree or has been working there , but you're

50:44

doing this on your own. We're

50:46

going to see that as motivation to want to give you

50:49

much more of a possibility. And

50:51

a lot of people just don't even get that.

50:53

And I think like, I really want, if you could walk

50:55

away from people listening, don't

50:57

be afraid to ask those questions. Don't be afraid

51:00

to show the initiative. Don't be afraid to think out of

51:02

the box to solve these problems.

51:04

Well, and Jason, I agree with that. And I'm going

51:06

to even take a step back to kids who are in

51:08

college, you know, who

51:10

their internships blew up or,

51:13

you know , they're having to work remotely right

51:16

now. And , and what

51:18

I tell them, as I'm talking to them, friends

51:20

and family and everything is stay

51:22

productive, learn and grow

51:25

and see how you can add value. And I'll give

51:27

an example of a family friend's daughter,

51:30

her internship blew up. And so she asked

51:32

to strategize on what she might do and she's

51:35

really into fashion. And I

51:37

had just cleaned out my classes and I kind

51:39

of talked to her and I said, Maya, you know,

51:42

think there's an opportunity out there for

51:45

you to reach

51:47

out to people who are cleaning the closets . Like

51:50

I am. And see if you can gather

51:52

a lot of business attire because none

51:54

of us are going into the work, you know, into

51:57

the office. And , um

51:59

, see if you can gather it and donate

52:01

it to organizations in need. And she

52:04

took that idea and ran with it over

52:06

the summer, had a clothing drive and

52:09

got so much great stuff that she was then

52:12

able to donate to Mo multiple sites.

52:15

And you know, the thing

52:17

about that, Jason is she didn't get paid

52:19

for it, but on her resume,

52:22

it is going to look glorious. She

52:24

took initiative, she showed strong project

52:26

management, creative and leadership

52:28

skills. So I

52:31

tell people, talk to family, friends

52:33

say, look, I'm going

52:35

to school. I'm not looking to be paid,

52:37

but is there a project that I could work on at your company

52:39

that you need done that could help me build

52:42

skillset ? Um, so

52:44

I think that's great

52:46

When I think, especially the technology

52:49

that's available to us, whether, you

52:51

know, you're further on in your career and your age versus

52:54

that young professional or college or high

52:56

school age student today, if

52:59

we're not leveraging all of

53:01

the free stuff that is out

53:03

there, right ? You don't have to have $3,000

53:06

to spend a weekend with Tony Robbins. You can spend

53:09

the next five years consuming. Every

53:11

single thing he has put out for free. Right

53:13

. Right. Or you want, right. So

53:16

there's all of these exercises conversation last

53:18

night with my sister, we have a third generation family

53:20

furniture business. And I'm the only

53:22

of the siblings not in at my brother, my younger siblings

53:25

taken it over and I do some outside

53:27

consulting for them. And there's

53:29

someone who I'm a big, who had become personally friends

53:31

with, but also has been a mentor and is isn't as a business

53:33

coach. And I'm like, I saw that this person

53:35

did this on their website. And

53:37

it was so simple to make this

53:39

like, instead of like a picture

53:42

that rotates, he has a video

53:44

teaser trailer and

53:47

I'm like, okay. So I have my social

53:49

media person. And I just said, can

53:51

you just come up with something that looks just

53:53

something like this for me? And

53:56

I'll come up with my own voiceover over it, but it's

53:58

just, can you give me like the background of what it might

54:00

look like if you were to do three

54:02

hours later, I got like a minute and a half little

54:04

teaser clip of me and different

54:06

speaking things or podcast interviews , um,

54:09

or pictures . And it just made

54:11

it into something that's just so out of Mike

54:13

skillset, when brought

54:15

back to me, it looks, Holy crap, this looks

54:18

like a million dollar.

54:20

Right. Right.

54:23

And then putting it out there from that person that I don't

54:25

need to have some

54:28

thousand dollar an hour coach or a thousand

54:30

dollar an hour video production professional to

54:33

do these things for me. I just have to know where

54:35

to go, where to look and see who

54:37

inspires me and reverse engineer. It.

54:39

It's not like there's really no cop. I mean, you're

54:41

not like, you know , verbatim copying word for word, but

54:43

the ideas, there's nothing new under the sun.

54:46

Right. Who's doing the best job of where

54:48

you want to be and only start doing what they're

54:50

doing. Like I don't, I don't

54:53

pay attention to what all the therapists in South

54:55

Florida are doing. Right.

54:57

Right. No , your mindset's different. I think the other

54:59

thing is their Ted talks out there.

55:02

I know I listened to one , um,

55:05

which was kind of how to deal

55:07

with loss the other day, Jason and

55:10

I found it relevant for everything and

55:12

, and out of it, it was like three

55:15

steps. One was

55:17

realize that, excuse my French

55:19

shit happens to everybody. Nobody's

55:22

life is perfect. No matter what it looks like on Facebook

55:24

or Instagram. Yeah, exactly.

55:27

Since I turned it into shift happens.

55:29

Yeah. Yeah.

55:32

The first thing I'm trying

55:35

to remember the second

55:37

one, but the third one was,

55:41

you know, as you go through things,

55:43

everything that you do think

55:46

does this help or hurt me. And

55:49

that reminds me, there's a book , um,

55:52

called drop in your bucket. And the idea behind

55:54

it is every interaction you have

55:56

with people adds to your bucket or

55:58

takes away. And I

56:00

think, you know, just reading

56:02

books and going to Ted talks and listening to

56:04

these things, as well as, like you

56:06

said, the Tony Robbins , all these things

56:09

are going to build your capabilities

56:11

and your knowledge and help you

56:13

succeed. So don't just sit and watch

56:15

Netflix and you know,

56:18

And the documentaries. Yeah, sure.

56:20

I listen to podcasts. They're fascinating

56:23

out there. And all you have to do is take

56:25

one or two nuggets away from them and

56:27

apply them. And you're going to continuously

56:30

learn, which is how the

56:32

people who are top of their games

56:34

get there. They , they're not complacent.

56:37

Here's a little bit of a hack if we want to take that even a step

56:39

fo of MEO forward. And you want to put yourself, especially

56:42

if you're looking for jobs and careers,

56:44

and you're just getting started is that if you know

56:47

where you want to be and

56:49

you just, and you don't know how to get in front

56:52

of people that may be out

56:54

of your reach just as a potential

56:56

employer. Yeah . Do

56:59

what I'm doing. Start

57:02

a podcast. And now all of

57:04

the sudden you have a

57:06

more legitimate platform to

57:09

get in front of people that might not necessarily want

57:11

to spend time with you because there's a good for them.

57:14

Whether the conversation's being recorded, it's being put out

57:16

into the world and you're using it as a good for all

57:19

right. But if you're a 17

57:21

or 16 to 24 year old

57:23

, then you

57:25

can use this. As I want to share

57:28

what I'm having a conversation with you about with

57:30

six other 16 to 24 years

57:32

old on their behalf.

57:35

Right . And

57:37

the barrier to entry is so low

57:40

to be able to do it right.

57:43

And with that, you could reach out to people,

57:45

like I said, from your college, from your high school who

57:47

have gone into different careers saying, Hey,

57:50

I just want to give a peek under the tent of

57:52

what a career at Amazon's like, what a career

57:54

in music, what occurred in theater? And

57:57

boy, would that be powerful?

57:59

And I did that, right. Even though I liked my network

58:01

that I started off with, with the first many interviews of

58:03

starting this podcast was already in my leverage network

58:05

of the people who I knew were highly successful people from

58:08

my business community. But

58:10

then I went on Amazon and this is a nice

58:12

little trick is go on Amazon

58:14

and see what books are about to be released that haven't

58:16

been released that are in your area

58:18

that you're interested about, right. If you're a job person

58:21

and looking for a career and, and , and, and

58:23

say like , can I interview you? And

58:25

I did this with Howard Bihar

58:28

from Starbucks, who's a former international

58:31

presidents , right. Under Howard Schultz , um,

58:33

who wrote the book? It's not about the coffee, about

58:35

servant leadership at the corporate. You have the corporate

58:37

culture of Starbucks, send

58:40

them an email and saying like,

58:42

I , you know, I happen to know some of these people in the, in the,

58:44

in that community, in the conscious capitalism

58:46

community. Um, and I absolutely

58:48

love it and just

58:50

would love to pick your brain to have you on my podcast

58:53

for half hour, eight minutes later,

58:55

I got a response from him.

58:57

Well, I can tell you as a new author, I

58:59

love it. I love being able

59:02

to talk to folks like you to talk about

59:04

the book, to share the information, because

59:07

that's why I wrote it to leave a legacy

59:09

and to get it out to a broader constituent. So

59:12

I think it's awesome.

59:13

So where can people go to get the book and

59:15

what other things can they access

59:18

you for outside of hiring

59:20

or in addition hiring, you know, you want

59:23

affirm

59:23

So they can get the [email protected]

59:30

and there they can get the book,

59:32

but we also are offering services.

59:34

We're offering complete coaching, resume

59:36

writing, interview prep, negotiation,

59:39

and I'm also available for speaking. Once

59:41

we get out of this pandemic

59:44

, um , and within each service,

59:46

there are different options and different levels,

59:49

depending on where you are in your search

59:51

and what you need. So , um , it's

59:53

very comprehensive and

59:55

it goes across all industries . So it's not

59:58

marketing per se, it's anybody.

1:00:00

It can be for young professionals. It can be for

1:00:02

career changers can be

1:00:04

for somebody who has a great resume,

1:00:07

but is bombing in their interviews or

1:00:09

somebody who did well in their

1:00:11

interview. They have an offer, but they don't feel

1:00:13

comfortable negotiating, and they need

1:00:15

somebody quickly in their corner to help them

1:00:18

do it in a positive win-win manner.

1:00:20

So I'm excited about

1:00:22

the book, excited about the services and

1:00:25

would love to chat with him . But

1:00:27

Yeah, so going through it, as I, as we were prepping

1:00:29

for the interview, like these are like,

1:00:31

I always have my list of books that like, wow, like

1:00:33

if you're in this segment of life, or if you're doing this, like

1:00:35

this is a must read, like there's books that I believe

1:00:37

that everybody should have on their bookshelf and

1:00:41

the simplicity of these areas

1:00:44

of what the average, if not most

1:00:46

people are going through is

1:00:48

being answered in this book. So those

1:00:50

of you out there who are, you know, have

1:00:52

gotten value and benefit out of this conversation

1:00:55

today with Chris, please, please, please go

1:00:57

out and check out the book , uh , check out the website.

1:01:00

And , um, I really think

1:01:02

that as we invest

1:01:04

more into ourself, but

1:01:07

you're holding is right . How do you unleash your potential? And

1:01:09

that's everything that I'm trying to do with this

1:01:11

podcast is minimize your stressors

1:01:13

to maximize your potential, that you don't

1:01:15

even know exists if you do

1:01:18

the work with someone like us to

1:01:20

get there. So thank you so much

1:01:22

for spending time with us.

1:01:24

Yeah , it was awesome. I really enjoyed speaking with you.

1:01:27

Thanks. And we'll look forward to checking out with everybody

1:01:29

in the next episode. And if you, again, got value from

1:01:31

this episode, please do us

1:01:33

a favor. And if you're not yet subscribed,

1:01:35

do so. And you can leave a written

1:01:38

and starred review on iTunes. Not only

1:01:40

does that help give me back

1:01:43

some value of the effort and energy and time that we're putting

1:01:45

out, but it also helps other people find

1:01:48

this episode and podcast. And it was really cool. A few

1:01:50

weeks ago, Chris, I, I was looking at iTunes

1:01:52

and to see just, you know, whatever, some

1:01:54

things. And it said, here are other podcasts

1:01:57

that are recommended in addition to yours. And

1:01:59

it was true . The people that I love in the social media

1:02:01

podcasting, what I'm like , Oh my God. Like, these

1:02:04

are people that have been since, before I've been podcasting or

1:02:06

like people I like devoured their stuff.

1:02:08

Like that's so cool. Like I'm now a suggestion

1:02:11

along the lines with them. So right

1:02:13

there is that value of just

1:02:15

going on and clicking, subscribing

1:02:18

and leaving a starred written review for us podcasters

1:02:21

out there. So if you whoever's listening to a podcast,

1:02:23

do that for your favorite podcast or subscribe, but

1:02:25

also leave them a written review, not just mine, but

1:02:27

again, Chris, thank you so much. Thank you

1:02:29

.

1:02:31

Thanks for listening to the you winning life

1:02:33

podcast. If you are ready to minimize

1:02:35

your personal and professional struggles

1:02:37

and maximize your potential, we would

1:02:39

love it. If you subscribe so you don't miss

1:02:42

an episode, you can follow us on Instagram

1:02:44

and Facebook at Jason Wasser,

1:02:46

LMF T .