0:00

So today we have Matt Hartney from Inspire Energy and Matt, we have a protocol here which eases the tension, and it actually means you have to touch my ball.

0:11

Can you do that please? That's the ball, yeah, because there's some good vibes coming out.

0:16

Great. Thank you so much.

0:18

You've been in Solar since 2008, so you're really a veteran about it.

0:26

Tell us how you got into Solar.

0:28

Yeah, I finished my apprenticeship as an electrician and then I started my business doing smart board touch screen things in schools and the renewable energy solar was always an interest of mine.

0:40

So I went and done the solar course.

0:42

Back then there wasn't much solar going on.

0:44

I've done a handful of jobs mainly for family, friends, that sort of thing and then about six months after I started doing solar the government $8,000 rebate came out and Solar really went sort of crazy from there.

1:02

So I was doing electrical and Solar sort of as a side gig and then the Solar sort of took over and ever since then we've just been doing Solar.

1:13

So that was actually the 60 cents feed-in tariff and the $8,000 rebate and that got you really started, is it?

1:18

Yeah, it did yeah. And where do you kind of operate?

1:22

Did you always operate all across Sydney, or you got a certain area that you kind of really specialise in?

1:28

We're Western Sydney based. We operate out of Gregory Hills, camden area.

1:33

We started as a contractor so I installed Solar for hundreds of different companies all over New South Wales and ACT, employed a heap of apprentices and myself.

1:48

So obviously when I first started it was just myself in a Mitsubishi Express van and a first year apprentice.

1:53

And we're installing Solar. One system every sort of took a day and a half to install a system and then from there hired a bunch of apprentices.

2:02

A lot of those apprentices are still employed with us at the moment.

2:04

They're obviously tradies now and still working within the business.

2:09

So you've gone from a two man band to how many people you've got employed now.

2:14

Full time staff. We've got, I think, 18 at the moment.

2:17

We also have a network of fully inducted subcontracts that we use as well for installs, so of that network is about 30 or 40.

2:29

Right, right. So what services do you actually offer?

2:33

Our main business is residential and commercial solar installations.

2:38

We are starting to get quite a lot of battery enquiries and we are doing a lot of battery storage installations.

2:45

Ev charging installation is starting to be a market that we are growing in.

2:52

We're doing a fair bit of EV charger installations now as well and integrating that into the solar systems Right right Now, some people still wonder if solar actually can save you money.

3:07

You've installed literally thousands of systems.

3:09

Is solar worth?

3:12

it. Solar is definitely worth it. It's all about changing people's energy habits and when you put the solar system in, then changing those energy habits to try and make utilizing the energy you're creating and really making the most of that energy that's being created.

3:29

So you're saying that if I make solar during the middle of the day, then I should try to use electricity in the middle of the day?

3:36

Can you give me an?

3:36

example. Yeah, so changing those energy habits where so to try and make use of the energy that you're creating on the roof.

3:43

So changing those habits to be able to use more of the solar energy during the day.

3:47

So changing the pool pump to come on daylight hours, trying to use delay start on a fuel, the appliance A lot of the new appliances have delay starts now where you can load the dishwasher, you can load the dryer, you can load the washing machine and delay start that function so it can come on during the day so you can really make use of the solar energy you're creating.

4:05

And really, especially now with the rates of electricity going up, the more you can make use of the solar, the less you can export into the network, the more viable the solar becomes.

4:16

So what about the air con or the hot water?

4:20

Yeah, so definitely with the air conditioner. The air conditioner is one of those loads that everyone wants to be comfortable in.

4:25

At 40 degree day you don't want to be coming home to an oven at home and with the solar.

4:30

If you can have the air conditioner coming on at lunchtime, so by the time you get home the house is already cool.

4:35

So if you can have that load coming on during the day, having the solar control most of that, that energy usage, that's obviously going to have a huge effect on the electricity costs.

4:47

I also hear that if you've got an electric hot water tank, there are now technologies that you can have the solar to actually generate the hot water, and hot water is an expensive part of your house energy footprint.

4:58

So how does that work?

4:59

Yeah, definitely using the off peak tariff used to be a way to the hot water was not really a thing that we used to consider because the off peak rates were obviously so low that it was viable just to keep it on off peak.

5:12

But that those off peak rates are rising to an extent now where we really need to consider that as a load that we need to control from the solar.

5:20

So there's a few products around that we can use now to have the solar feeding into the hot water tanks, that we got IO controls on some of the inverters.

5:32

We've also got the catch power system where it can divert the exported solar energy rather than exporting it to the grid.

5:38

For five or six cents you can have that energy stored into your hot water system, so it becomes a sort of a semi thermal battery where you're storing.

5:46

You're storing that energy as heat inside your hot water tanks, so you're using that energy during the day to really maximize your energy independence from the grid as well.

5:56

So what you're really saying is that if I've excess solar, instead of sending it out for five cents, I put it in my hot water tank, where I would have paid 18 or 20 cents to get that, and that can give me additional savings.

6:07

Yes, it's just about maximizing that solar energy usage and really creating your own sort of power network within your own properties that you're generating the power on the roof, you're using that energy to control the loads during the day, the all the excess energy used to store the hot water system, and then from there that's always done integrate batteries and and try and really make a grid independence for the home owners.

6:30

So when you walk into a homeowner and explain solar, now that it's become so technical, how do you actually keep it simple?

6:35

What's the key message that you give people?

6:38

The key message is is obviously, you're buying power from the grid at the moment and you're putting in a power station effectively to generate your own energy, and then it's about using that energy that you're going to create on your roof and maximizing your savings by making best use of that energy you're going to create.

6:58

Now a lot of people play with the thought of having a battery.

7:02

Are you selling more batteries or the combos nowadays than, let's say, five years ago?

7:07

Yeah, so batteries was. The battery technology now is quite advanced and works really quite well and with the the rate of electricity that continually going up, the inquiries for batteries now have exponentially increased.

7:20

And we do do quite a lot of battery, battery installs, battery sales, and that now as well.

7:28

A lot of the reason for the battery installs is grid independence.

7:32

We did have quite a few clients that we had to install after the fires went through and a few years ago where they lost power.

7:40

They had no power. They're all using diesel backup generators, whereas if they have the battery backup systems there they can keep things like the water pumps going, they can keep basic appliances running.

7:52

So educate me a little bit about battery. I've got a battery, there's a blackout.

7:56

Do I now just go out and bake a cake?

7:59

No, so with the batteries, obviously, when the grid's connected, they're they're an energy offset device.

8:04

When you do have a blackout, we run an EPS circuit which gives you which is it's an emergency power circuit.

8:10

So there's certain appliances that you can, that you can keep going, which is like your lights, your fridge, your TV, those essential items that you can keep running.

8:18

Playstations, definitely the playstations.

8:21

Keep the iPads charged for the kids.

8:24

Right, so you're saying that if you do have a blackout with a battery, you still want to use more your essential items than just pretend you don't have a blackout?

8:34

You because you've got a given reservoir and you've got to preserve that till the next day when the solar starts and you fill it up again.

8:41

Is that what's happening?

8:42

Yeah, so obviously the battery, you have a certain capacity of energy that you can use.

8:47

So we try to educate and then also try and pre-wire the system so that it only has those essential loads running during a blackout and then obviously every day it's going to regenerate itself.

8:56

So the solar will regenerate the battery and keep those essential loads running, especially on the rural properties, if you have water pumps, if you're not connected to mains water, so those sort of appliances is essential to running your home.

9:11

So just having the water pumps available to keep the shithouse going.

9:15

Right now you do off-grid systems as well.

9:18

We do a lot of off-grid systems, ground mount solar.

9:22

It's a different sort of a concept there.

9:25

Those clients. They need to be very energy conscious so that they're aware of what they can and can't run during the day.

9:34

What's the size of a?

9:34

system you do for off-grid. For off-grid we um residential systems we do generally the five to ten kva systems is a standard sort of a system.

9:44

We just commissioned a 112 kva system.

9:50

That's a big house.

9:51

Yeah, it's a small farm out near ACT and the country, so that's got 30 kilowatts of PV running through for a 112 kilowatt battery system from the Red Earth.

10:05

Right. So the rule with the off-grid system is really that you have to be very reliable as an after-sales service company, because when they go down, they go down.

10:17

They have no option. At least with the home you're on the grid, you're fine.

10:21

So how important is after-sales service?

10:25

After-sales service is more important than the actual installation itself.

10:30

Because if you have a system you've installed and you have no one there to service that system if and when it ever goes down, it's more important than the actual installation itself.

10:42

There's a lot of companies out there that offer five ten-year workmanship warranties who've been in business for less than a year.

10:49

So those sort of items if you haven't been in business for longer than the warranty period you're offering, there's obviously a red flag that should come up for the customer there.

11:00

And a lot of those companies are not there in two years time either.

11:02

No, in the sole industry there's thousands of companies that have opened up and gone.

11:08

That's the old trick, isn't it? I give you a really long warranty, I give you a really low price, and then I just disappear and that long warranty is.

11:18

Yeah, it's the number one thing we try to educate the clients when we're especially in the sales processes.

11:24

If you're going to offer a warranty, a workmanship warranty, has the company been around longer than the workmanship warranty that they're that they're promoting?

11:32

Because if you haven't been around for that period, how do you know they're going to be around?

11:36

That's a service that warranty in the future. Yeah, that's a very good point.

11:39

Sometimes we say there's better panels, there are better inverters, there are cheaper panels, cheaper inverter.

11:46

Can you have really good gear but still get a poor solar outcome?

11:51

Yeah, definitely, you can have the best solar panel on the market installed on your roof, but if that installation isn't designed correctly, if that installation is installed correctly, the end result is going to be the same as if you put the cheapest panel available on the market on the roof.

12:10

The main thing that it comes down to is is the system designed correctly, is the system installed correctly, and then is that system going to be serviced?

12:20

So if, in three, four, five, ten years time, if something does go wrong with the system, is that company still going to be around to be able to assist with the manufacturer's warranties and any workmanship issues that may arise?

12:33

Do you get calls from systems you installed five, six, eight years ago?

12:36

What's the key issue that people have a problem with?

12:41

I would say with our systems it's more upgrades as opposed to problems.

12:47

I would say over half of our inquiries are customers that we have installed in the last five to ten years where they're coming back to expand the systems because they've had kids or their home has expanded and they need more energy requirements or they're inquiring to add batteries onto the systems as well.

13:05

We would get 20 to 30 phone calls a week of systems that we didn't install that have now have issues where they've got an inverter fault or they've got some sort of an issue with the system not working or the monitoring has gone down and the company that they've purchased the system from is no longer around.

13:21

So they don't actually have anyone any point of call for service or warranty issues.

13:27

Because there's no, especially with a lot of the, even with the manufacturers.

13:32

A lot of the manufacturers have come into the country of. They were a high volume, big flashy brochures, they sold hundreds and thousands of units, but three, four years time they're gone and then the end user is the one who suffers because, especially if they're bought down from a company who's not around anymore, the manufacturer's not around anymore, the install is not around anymore, they've got no point of call, so that's when they come to us.

13:57

I bought a cheap system. Now it's four years on.

13:59

I got problems. I ring the company. They're not around.

14:02

The manufacturer of that product is not around.

14:05

I now have what's called a solar orphan, and now I call you.

14:10

What do you do?

14:12

So we have an in-house service team that that we that we do send out.

14:16

Obviously we have to go out and establish what the problem is because with all our systems we have monitoring on every system that we install.

14:22

So every system that that we've installed, we have some sort of monitoring package, either solar analytics monitoring package or an inverter but inbuilt monitoring package.

14:31

We're able to log in and see what's going on with our systems and track those.

14:35

For the solar orphans. Obviously we have to send a trade one of our service techs.

14:39

You have to go and have a look and see what the issue is.

14:41

So you have to charge for that, yes, correct, yeah, yeah.

14:45

So. And what do you usually find?

14:48

Is it, is it salvable? Or do you had sometimes just to say, look, this has been installed poorly, it's poor equipment, it's got to go what's the story?

14:56

I would say 90% of the cases the the installations need to be replaced.

15:01

Wow there's poor quality inverters that they've installed that are out of warranty.

15:06

We're unable to repair the inverters if the inverter has an internal fault.

15:12

That we can't repair, there's no manufacturer that we can call on to get service parts for, so they're always replaced.

15:18

So we have a, we have two service teams that just full-time replacing old solar inverters, old solar panels, just a full-time, full-time service of just of just going out repairing, replacing those orphan systems.

15:35

So you might have a pensioner who thought they bought a really u-bute system because they believed whatever the sales guy told them.

15:40

And then you have to go then break the bad news that, mate, is actually water in the panels.

15:46

The inverter is dead, the install was done poorly and you didn't pay much for it, so you got what.

15:51

You got what you paid for how do you break that news now?

15:55

It usually is received.

15:57

So it's always a difficult conversation because they they have their, they have their paper here saying I've got a 10 year warranty on this inverter.

16:03

But the 10 year, it's just a piece of paper.

16:06

There's if you can't contact the manufacturer, if the manufacturer is not in Australia, there is no, there is no warranty there.

16:13

So we do have a, obviously, a service call out for you that we go out and have a look, we work out what the system is and we just provide them with options as to as to what the best course of action is to to get that system back up and running.

16:26

So how do I avoid getting a solar orphan where I don't get long-term support?

16:31

The stuff is crappy. How do I avoid it?

16:35

So the the the key things to when you're choosing a solar system is, obviously, the product is a good, is one is one aspect of it is choosing manufacturers that have an Australian presence.

16:46

So we only work with manufacturers if they, if the manufacturer, actually has physical presence in Australia with staff employed in Australia, so if we do have an issue in two, three, four, five years time, we actually have someone that we can speak to on behalf of the client to to service those warranties.

17:04

The second thing, and the the most important thing, is who the installation company and who the sales company is.

17:10

That's that's actually selling you the product. There's a there's a vast difference between a company that sells solar and an actual solar company.

17:19

An actual solar company will have CC installers employed and inside their office they'll have a physical office, physical presence, and then there'll also be staff inside that office that can then so these sales consultants, obviously, they, they go out and they sell the system, they, they work at what size system that is is required for the client but then you need a technical engineer inside your office that can actually have a look at that system, design it and make sure that the system is going to work and is fit for purpose, and then obviously the installers on the ground that can do the install, and then a service department so that when something does go wrong there is someone to actually come out and and service those warranties on behalf of the manufacturers for the clients might right.

18:00

So when you start in 2008 and I did too around that time we all thought we saved the world.

18:07

Climate change is coming.

18:09

Solar can help, but we've seen the industry tipsy turny with, unfortunately, some crooked operators, some crooked products and stuff like that.

18:17

And how do you personally feel about being in this industry?

18:21

I mean, we're looking at solar saving the world.

18:23

How? You are you?

18:26

Are you part of a pioneering group that's really making a difference?

18:30

I mean, what's going on in mats had day to day when you run your solar company?

18:35

yeah, it's been a what we call the solar coaster.

18:38

It's an ever emerging sort of an industry.

18:41

Yeah, like with the manufacturers, we've seen so many manufacturers come in big flashy brochures and promise the world and then they're here for a short period and then they go on.

18:51

So when we're choosing manufacturers, we obviously We've we choose only the manufacturers that we've, that we've been working with for quite a while and we know that we, that we can rely on those manufacturers for if and when anything ever does pop up.

19:05

And then just the ever changing industry.

19:08

There's always new technologies coming out. So just keeping ourselves trained and and informed them what the technologies are, which ones work, which ones don't work.

19:18

Right right now, when you go out and you and your sales team sell, what is the most common questions you get asked?

19:29

The most common question would be why they?

19:31

Why the Australian cricket is advertising on TV for a certain price and our prices is dramatically different to that.

19:38

So just explain to the clients what the what the difference is between Buying from a company with shell offices all over Australia, claiming to be nationwide, and and buying from a local quality install who's been around for quite some time.

19:52

That would be the number one question.

19:55

And and recently, recently, is now, the viability of batteries is is, that would be the number one question, I would say.

20:04

Recently that's come up is is now. With energy prices going up, so much the the the viability of battery installations now is a big is coming through?

20:13

yeah, definitely, we're going to have a visa down the track it looks like.

20:17

So the increases of the visa is that in any way connected with solar and batteries?

20:23

Yes, it definitely with the.

20:27

Obviously, that affects the size of solar systems that we that we're installing.

20:30

So we're installing larger residential solar systems now to cater for those additional loads and then obviously, installing the batteries in there in the event that, obviously, you're going to be driving your car during the day by the time you get home, the solar starting to die off.

20:43

So we need, we need some way of storing that energy so you can actually put some of that back into the EV as well, so that it does create a, it does enhance their return on investment on the batteries.

20:54

By having, you're not only offsetting the energy for the house, you see, you're also offsetting the energy that you would have been spending on petrol in the in the EV as well.

21:04

So when you, when you put all those those items together, the return investment, the batteries is starting to become more and more viable.

21:08

When it comes to batteries now, what is the recommended size for a family home?

21:14

So at the moment, most of the batteries that we're installing between the 10 to 13 kilowatt hour range.

21:18

We're starting to see those battery sizes increase, especially as people are starting to consider EV, ev loads and more loads over the night they want to use from the battery.

21:33

So we're starting to see battery sizes which were in the tent of 13 kilowatts up to 20, 25 kilowatt hour batteries now Right.

21:39

So there's a, there's a trend just as big as all the systems and also bigger batteries.

21:42

Yes, Especially in the residential market.

21:47

Yeah, the battery sizing and the solar sizing is starting to increase as those loads in the olden days, when we started, it was a one and a half kilowatt system.

21:56

That was six panels chucked in the middle of the roof.

21:58

Now you go there and you see some roofs completely filled.

22:02

Is your recommendation, with the large family, to really go for the largest solar system?

22:09

We take a tailored approach to every solar system.

22:12

We try to design the system around the energy requirements of the home as opposed to the actual physical roof space.

22:17

So physical roof space is obviously becoming an issue because if the more, the more energy you require, the more space you require, but we try to design the systems around what the energy requirements of the home are.

22:29

So we try to use, utilize the right size system for those energy needs, that, not a system that's too big and you're just going to be exporting energy and energy you don't need, and also not a system that's too small where you're going to have to.

22:40

You've got the system there but you're not making full use of your own energy independence because the system you got there is not, is not large enough to support the loads of their, of the energy requirements for the home.

22:51

Do you know find sometimes if somebody already has two EVs and they got a big family, then they need at least 4050 kilowatt hours a day?

22:59

Do you sometimes find that the roof section not big enough already?

23:03

It is. It's definitely a case where, especially, there is quite a few places now where their energy, their energy, needs a lot more than what we can actually generate on the roof.

23:11

So there is we are looking at now alternatives with different sort of technologies.

23:17

We can use carport structures, which we can use a solar.

23:20

We do a lot of BIPV.

23:23

We're starting to get into the BIPV products, which is a building integrated solar products, which is a new sort of a technology that we're looking at now.

23:31

Oh, tell me all about that. So it's called BIPV building integrated PV.

23:35

How does that work?

23:37

We work with a few manufacturers now where they've got a new technology where they can create panels that become part of the facade, so you can replace the facade of the house, the glass on the buildings, balustrates, carports, so you can you can basically create building products out of solar panels.

23:56

So they're making use of the entire surface here, and not only for energy generation, but it's also an aesthetics and aesthetics point where we can have panels coloured to match the colour of the roof or the colour of the walls or the colour of the glass.

24:10

We can actually get panels manufactured that they can fit not only for your energy needs but also aesthetics as well.

24:19

Right Now obviously they would be more expensive than standard panels, but also the last 20, 30 years, so you will get a good ROI at the end.

24:28

Yeah, so the, the, the products, it's the, the warranties and the products are still quite well.

24:36

They're very similar to the, the normal manufacturers solar panels but then you've also got the added benefits of the aesthetics.

24:42

So a lot of architects now that we're working with are starting to look at integrating these sort of technologies into the buildings, especially in a commercial sector.

24:52

We've got a few commercial projects that we got underway at the moment which are which are going to have coloured panels integrated into the roof.

25:01

So as you look at the building, the building is going to look the certain way that the architect wants it to look, but it's also going to be generating its own power from the roof.

25:08

We've established now that if down the track we're going fast forward, five, six years, we have two EVs, we have four people, five people in the family, around the air con, we run the smart home.

25:20

The roof will not be big enough to cover all your needs on solar, except if the panels become heaps, heaps more efficient.

25:28

So then, what I use? Do I use my fence?

25:31

Do I create a carport and put solar panels on the top?

25:35

But if I can use the facade of my house to create, because that gets on on it, that's maybe how we can fill that gap.

25:43

Is this why you're interested in building integrated solar?

25:46

Yeah, definitely just looking at ways to increase the, the actual power output of off the house and any way to.

25:55

There's a lot of people that are like I'm a bit biased.

25:58

I like to look at the solar panel, but there's quite a few people that look at that and said it's very ugly, we don't want solar on the front of our house.

26:04

That that would be one of the major comments we would get from from potential customers is we want solar but we don't want it on the front of the house.

26:11

So we're just looking at the alternatives to to still be able to use that, that available roof space, or or the front of the house or or the side where the car, where the cars parked, and looking at those ways to to actually be able to use those spaces to create the energy that's required.

26:28

What about black panels? They do look quite good.

26:32

Yeah, so we. The trend has obviously changed.

26:35

The black panels were a bit of a niche five years ago.

26:39

There was not. There wasn't a great deal of black panels around.

26:41

Now it's hard to find a silver frame panels.

26:43

Almost almost all panels now a black. A lot of them go with the black back sheet now so you don't see the white.

26:49

In between the cells as well, there's the REC alpha panel which has the gapless technology so that there is no gaps between the cells.

26:56

That they are a lot more aesthetically pleasing With us.

27:00

With all our residential installations we use black framing as well.

27:03

So all the mounting structure is powder coated black aluminium as well.

27:07

So the whole aesthetic part of the roof is the black panels blend in a lot better with the darker roof and they're a lot more aesthetically pleasing.

27:18

So it does solve some of the issues where they don't want to see the panel in the front of the house.

27:25

I sometimes wondered where people want to save $600 every three months and then use a very unqualified company to just whack that soul on it.

27:33

It looks so ugly because the people didn't really think about it and they lose $30,000 in the value of the house.

27:40

So the look of the whole system is very important.

27:43

What do you do to kind of make sure that the people get a great looking system?

27:49

So with our systems in particular, once our consultant has gone out and designed the system around what the client needs, we then have one of our in-house installers go to site and actually physically draw it up, measure it up and have the client approve the design prior to the system going in, so that not only do they get the system that's going to work the best, they also get the system installed in a manner which they find aesthetically pleasing as well.

28:16

So no surprises.

28:18

No surprises, no, some sort of companies just sell it on Google Maps and give you a price and hope for the best.

28:25

Do you guys approach that way?

28:28

No. So if you're doing it, if you just remote satellite, do a design by Google Maps, send the price through and then send an install out to do the install, they're relying entirely on whoever the installer is that goes to site for the quality of the installation, the quality of the output of the system.

28:51

We have a different approach. We have in-house engineers and in-house installers.

28:56

So if, before any of our systems are installed, it's checked by one of our in-house engineers, one of our installers will go to site physically measure which then ensures that A the system is going to be designed correctly and is going to perform and create the energy that we've designed it around, and then also that the client knows what they're getting.

29:16

So the client will know where the panels are going to go, where the inverter is going to go, how we're going to address the cabling through the roof cavity or how the whole installation process is going to work.

29:25

So there's an education piece there as well.

29:28

That happens between the sole consultant selling the system to the homeowner and then our installers actually installing it.

29:34

There's a whole process that happens in the middle to ensure the quality of the system and then also so the homeowner knows exactly what they're getting.

29:42

I've had circumstances where I've seen companies and those cheap sales companies who just quote over the phone and when the installer goes there he realizes the switchboard wasn't actually up to scratch and there's another $1,500 for switchboard upgrades.

29:56

Have you seen situations like that?

29:59

Yes. So that would be the number one complaint that we find.

30:01

We have people that come to us because they've gone with another company.

30:05

The installers turned up, they've been sold 30 panels it can only fit 24, 20 panels, 16 panels 16 panels in some cases and then they obviously cancel the contract and come to us.

30:16

We attach that sort of situation where we vet it in between that process.

30:23

So we have our consultants, our employees as well, but they're not trained installers.

30:30

So we train them a lot in the design process and how to size the system, but it's our installers that know how the install needs to take place.

30:39

So then in between the sales process and the installation process, our in-house engineers or our installers will go to site, check that and address those issues before the install, so the surprises won't come up on the day of the install.

30:53

After a couple of years, Solar doesn't have any moving parts.

30:56

Why do I need maintenance?

30:59

Maintenance is a good way to ensure that the system is operation correctly.

31:03

Continuing the panels is a good thing to do, not mandatory for warranties, but it is a good thing to do annually or by annually All our commercial systems.

31:14

We have maintenance contracts in place to ensure that everything is working correctly.

31:19

The generation is there. The main thing is, if you're.

31:22

We install monitoring with every system to ensure the performance is accurate.

31:27

Solar Analytics is a really good product for that.

31:29

We can track the performance of the systems and make sure that they are performing correctly.

31:34

I got that myself. Yeah, the monitoring is a big thing, just to make sure that the system is actually correct and is working correctly.

31:43

It's one way to ensure. It's one thing to put the solar roof and hope that it's working, but if you're waiting for the next electricity bill, something happens in that period.

31:52

If you're not monitoring the system and you're waiting for that electricity bill, you get a big surprise when that bill comes in, got it?

31:59

Now you do commercial as well. Yes, Tell me what's the difference between a commercial solar system and a residential solar system?

32:08

Besides the more panels, there's a lot of engineering that goes into the commercial system.

32:12

We have two divisions.

32:15

We do commercial, which we have a team dedicated to do all the commercial installations, and then we do the residential installations as well.

32:22

The difference between the commercial and the residential is just more involved in the commercial in terms of we have structural engineering.

32:29

We have an engineer that goes through and checks the structural adequacy of the buildings, as well as electrical engineering, and there's a lot more design work in terms of the planning.

32:40

What about the design of the consumption in the first place and getting their consumption data?

32:44

Yes, so it's actually easier in terms of in commercial to get a more accurate system design because you get better consumption data.

32:52

We didn't generally get interval data from the power company.

32:55

So we can design the system more accurately around their energy usage, as opposed to the residential where we just going off daily kilowatt hour usage.

33:05

Now, look, you come across like a person who is logical, but also from an emotional point of view.

33:12

Where is the most exciting part in solar?

33:16

I mean, you've done the whole solar coaster and all that what's the stuff that really excites you and where do you think we're all going?

33:24

For me. I'm a bit of an energy nerd. I enjoy the designing of the solar systems and then tracking the performance and the monitoring.

33:30

The whole design process is what I enjoy.

33:35

It's probably not for everyone, but for me that's the part that I enjoy is designing and mapping out the actual system installation, system design, part of the system, and then obviously they're all the new technologies.

33:51

I'm fascinated by some of the new technologies coming out.

33:56

I was in China recently.

33:58

We went to a factory where they're buildings are a custom made panel for us for a project that we're doing.

34:04

They're able to print all sorts of different designs on panels to make them look any sort of way that we want them to look.

34:09

They're able to cut them into different sizes to make them fit into different profiles, especially for architectural designed buildings where the roof space isn't conventional.

34:20

We can't fit rectangle panels on the roof.

34:23

So you're saying that we actually potentially only at the beginning of the whole solar journey?

34:29

I would say yeah, it's always progressing, so there's always something new on the horizon that's coming out Every month.

34:36

We add the panels that we bring in. They get slightly more efficient.

34:40

The panel wattage is always slightly more and more increasing.

34:44

I've got in our showroom 135 watt panel that we're installing 10 years, 12 years ago and those that same brand of panel now 430, 440 watts.

34:57

The physical size isn't dramatically bigger.

35:01

There has been a bit of an increase in the solar panel size, where there used to be only 15 kilos, 18 kilos and now you're getting 22 kilos.

35:09

Do you get any complaints from?

35:10

your staff. The installers hate some of the commercial system we have.

35:16

There's panels out there that are up to 700 watts, that are two and a half meters by a meter and a half and nothing worse than trying to carry them across the roof and mount them into the scissor lift.

35:27

But even the residential panels they have been getting larger and larger, which just changes some of the design around the mounting structures.

35:37

That does create those sort of challenges.

35:40

Sometimes having to have a bigger panel with a bigger wattage means you can actually get a smaller system on a roof, isn't it?

35:45

Because there are certain corners you cannot fit that large panel anymore, which a smaller panel would have been able to fit on.

35:50

So that's where the manufacturer really should have talked to the installers.

35:54

Yeah, and there's also a difference between the efficiency of the panel and the size of the panel.

35:59

We have panels out there that you might be comparing a 410 watt panel and a 440 watt panel and to the end user they see the 440 and think that the 440 watt panel is must be better than the 410 watt panel.

36:12

But it's not always the case. The 440 watt panel might be physically larger than the 400 or the 410 watt panel.

36:18

So in terms of cell efficiency and actual generation per square meter, there could be a difference there in those panels as well.

36:27

So, from what I pick up there, how important is efficiency in the panel?

36:33

The efficiency is almost the most important part of the panel.

36:37

So that actually is the power generation of the panel.

36:40

The more efficient the panel, the more power we're going to get out of that panel per square meter.

36:44

So and now, with the high energy requirements of the homes, the more power we can get out of each per square meter is the goal.

36:52

So the more power we can get out of that the roof space, the better the system's going to be Now.

37:00

Remember the old and these. There was the Ford versus Holden argument and we've got a bit of the string inverter versus optimizer and micro inverter argument.

37:10

Where do you sit with that?

37:13

Every single system has its own application.

37:15

So with us, if it's a quality manufacturer, we work with quite a few different products and over the years we've worked with a multitude of different products.

37:23

There's a different for us personally anyway, or for me personally.

37:29

There's an application for everything and depending on what the application is would depend on what product we design for that system.

37:37

There's a case for microinverters and AC cabling through the roof cavity.

37:44

There's optimizing systems where shading and mismatching panels is a big thing, so that's where optimizers can come into play.

37:54

There's also cases where we don't need optimizing on the entire array.

37:59

We only need a handful of panels on the array to be optimized, so that there's a different solution for that.

38:06

Are you?

38:06

talking about Tiger there. Yes, so we use the Tiger energy for just a handful of panels around a chimney that need that, need some optimizing, when we believe there's not a case for the whole array to be optimized but there's a different application for everything.

38:24

Some companies out there go oh well, you need an optimizer, you need a microinvert, that's the only solution.

38:29

That is the best. Do they actually play with the customer's mind and sometimes charge them more what it needs to be?

38:37

Yeah, I think so. So it's a with us you need.

38:40

There's an application for everything. So if we have a look at the site and we don't believe you need that more expensive option, we'll design a system around what we believe is going to be the best outcome for our clients and then, there's times when we believe that there might be a case where the panels need to be all optimized and they've got other companies telling them the stringing system was going to be perfect for that, for your house.

39:05

But we design the system around what the client needs.

39:08

So depending on what the client needs is what we would prescribe for that installation, and do people are receptive to those explanations, or do they?

39:16

sometimes the retired engineers?

39:19

They think they're no better than you and they argue back.

39:21

And what's the story?

39:24

There's always people that think they know everything.

39:26

Sometimes I can fall into that category as well, but it's just about education and we can give them the facts and and let them make up their own decision around what we believe is going to be the best for them.

39:38

But at the end of the day, it's the client's house, and if they have a particular system that they want to go down, we're happy to facilitate that as well.

39:49

So you kind of in an area that has a lot of families and growing families, etc.

39:53

So what does your average customer look like and how do you win them over?

39:57

Yeah, so we're locating one of the areas which is one of the sort of booming areas in New South Wales where there's a lot of residential development going in in Southwest Sydney.

40:08

We have a physical presence in the area. We have employed staff within the area so we do try to educate the clients that we are going to be there for the future.

40:17

So we've been there for the last 10 years, we're going to be there for the next 10 years.

40:20

We sell quality product, we sell quality installation and then we also have the after-sales service and we actually have somewhere that they can come to If there is an issue, if they do have a question about how their monitoring is working, or if they do have a question about baddies, or if they do actually want to come and physically see what a battery upgrade looks like.

40:37

They do have a show and where they can come to and Feel and touch the product.

40:40

Yeah, correct. Yeah, 6.6 was the system two, three, four years ago.

40:44

Now we move into eight and 10 kilowatt systems.

40:47

Yeah, and even bigger. But what's the ROI on that?

40:51

And how much can you actually save on solar a year?

40:53

So you can.

40:55

We've had Most of our clients save up to about 70 to 75% of their electricity consumption can be all designed through the solar system.

41:02

Return on investments providing that they are using their solar, is on average around three years.

41:08

So they're getting a return investment in three years, which is quite a significant saving.

41:15

So if I can save $2,000 to $3,000 a year and I get my money back after three years, but the system lasts 20 years, if I do my math quickly, what's 17 times 2,000?

41:27

That's $34,000 that I save in my pocket over the life of the system.

41:31

Yes, yeah. So it's much better than putting your money in the bank.

41:34

You get much better interest rate, much better return on investment from a solar investment than you would from any cash investment put into the bank.

41:42

Most solar companies have to have installers that are accredited by the Clean Energy Council.

41:46

Do you have any other specific qualifications from your company perspective?

41:51

Yeah, so their company itself is accredited with the Clean Energy Council as an approved solar retailer as well.

41:57

So we've vetted and approved to actually sell and recommend solar systems to clients.

42:02

We also put a lot of effort into getting accredited with our manufacturers as well.

42:07

So all the product that we supply and install we approve partners with those products.

42:13

So with REC, we're a certified installer, with them, tesla certified installers.

42:18

We do a lot of work to ensure that we train all our guys and our companies accredited with those manufacturers.

42:26

We're also ISO accredited as well, so we put a lot of work into getting an internationally recognised accreditation for quality management as well as safety and environmental management.

42:39

Isn't that just a little plaque?

42:41

Or do you have to do anything? I wish it was a little plaque.

42:46

It's actually quite a process to get ISO accredited.

42:49

So we have to get externally audited from a third party company.

42:52

They have to come in, they have to go through our company operations, our company systems and our quality management process to ensure that we follow a specific guidelines to ensure that our quality standards and our quality management, as well as our safety standard and our safety management systems are compliant with international standards.

43:13

We have to do that for a lot of our government projects.

43:17

So for a lot of our councils and government projects that we do, we need to be ISO accredited.

43:24

But then that also feeds into our residential market.

43:27

So a lot of the clients that we install they can be.

43:30

It gives them an assurance that not only are we clean energy council accredited and we have been around for quite a long time we're also internationally accredited sorry, internationally recognised in ISO accreditation for their quality and safety management.

43:46

So they know that the system that they're getting installed will be installed to the highest quality standards as well, as the guys that are coming out to install will be installed into the highest safety standards as well.

43:58

Wow, you must be proud of your staff, then yeah, yeah, definitely.

44:01

So it's quite a achievement to get that accredited.

44:04

There isn't a great deal of us that are ISO accredited in the solar industry.

44:09

Well, congratulations. Now you recently completed a very large housing project.

44:14

Tell us about that.

44:16

We did. We've done. I think it's about 2,000 homes for Aboriginal housing we were working up in the north coast of New South Wales as well as the New England area, and then most recently we just completed 900 homes in Sydney as well for Aboriginal housing.

44:34

So that was a three kilowatt per house installation rollout.

44:38

So it's quite a challenge to manage so many installations in an 18 month period.

44:44

Wow.

44:45

So we had quite an extensive quality process and quite extensive installation rollout for that.

44:53

So if you had done over 2,000 homes for that housing project, what inverter solution do you use?

44:59

For that particular project we were using the SMA inverters up in the New England area and then more recently we're using the Sungro units for those.

45:08

We've gone into using quite a lot of Sungro now after that rollout, because we had a very we actually had a zero failure rate on those inverters in that rollout.

45:19

So it's how many homes Just over?

45:22

2,000. And not a single inverter was failed.

45:25

No, sungro is a Chinese brand, but they make good inverters.

45:29

Yeah, we've had quite a good experience with Sungro. We don't pick a manufacturer unless they do have an Australian office that we can contact.

45:36

And then all their manufacturers we've worked with for quite a number of years, so we know not only are they a large manufacturer and they can support the product that we're trying to install, but then they also have an actual Australian office.

45:50

So if there is something that we need some technical support, especially with inverters, with technical commissioning, those sort of issues we have someone we can actually call and then for warranty if something does happen in the future, we actually have someone that we can go to and actually service those warranties through the manufacturer.

46:11

I know particular cases with the energy retailers, who also sometimes sell solar, that there have been inverter failures which took up to three to four months to replace and that the customer had no power.

46:23

If I bought a system from you, my inverter is dead.

46:26

I ring you up how long before my system is going again.

46:31

With most of our manufacturers. It's quite a quick turnaround in terms of warranty replacement.

46:37

With Fronus we created ourselves as a Fronus service partner.

46:41

We have access to circuit boards and parts and replacement units should that arise.

46:48

We also do the same thing with SMN Sungrove.

46:51

So there are three main inverter brands in the string system and then we also work with Solar Edge and Enphase too.

46:58

So all those manufacturers that we work with we've worked with for quite a number of years and when we do have issues we have someone direct that we can contact.

47:06

So we're not just filling in a form and hoping for the best.

47:08

We have a direct contact that we can harass and call them and say but so how long you haven't given me a number?

47:17

It varies. Generally, we try to solve the thing within a fortnight Right.

47:21

OK, well, it's better than three to four months, yeah definitely.

47:25

Now when it comes to batteries et cetera.

47:28

We have heard about some issues with batteries, like with scooter batteries et cetera.

47:32

How safe are home storage batteries?

47:36

The home storage batteries come up under a different standard.

47:40

It's those sort of batteries, the home batteries, that we install.

47:44

They have a battery management system so they can actually shut the cells down if they're getting too hot, if they're going over voltage or under voltage.

47:51

The installation of the home batteries is generally in an area outside the home, in a noncombustible backing or on the external of the property.

48:03

So the fallen wall, for example.

48:05

Yeah, yeah. So the installation standards for the batteries ensures that the installations are quite safe as well.

48:13

When we install them in garages and in traffic barriers, there's ballards that go in front of them.

48:18

The actual installation of batteries is quite safe.

48:23

Now Tesla batteries. They're quite popular, aren't they?

48:26

They are. So the Tesla battery would be probably the highest one that we get in terms of inquiries.

48:30

They've done quite a good job of their marketing of the actual product.

48:36

We have people coming in to buy, specifically to buy that product.

48:39

It's a good product. We installed quite a few of those units.

48:43

We've installed for residential.

48:46

We've installed a few small commercial systems with the Tesla power walls as well.

48:50

Good quality product. We installed quite a few that.

48:53

We've had issues with those.

48:54

Good looking too.

48:55

It is. Yeah, it's a good looking unit. You put it in the back of the garage of the Tesla car in front of it, yeah.

49:02

Where do you see us all going forward to the smart home, with solar panels becoming more efficient, the EV car maybe the EV car will have a battery that backs up the home.

49:14

Where's the whole industry going?

49:17

What do you see in the future?

49:18

I think energy independence is going to be a big thing. So obviously using the EV as part of your home energy unit so I can definitely see the cars, your car batteries and your EV is actually becoming part of your power system at home.

49:33

So plugging the batteries in, using those batteries in the cars to power some of the homes as well A big thing that we can see what I can see anyway, is the especially with EV charging is large commercial batteries getting installed.

49:49

So trying to display some of that energy so that we can make better use of solar and commercial especially large businesses where they can fill the whole roof top up with solar and have those EV charges at work.

50:04

So you can go to work, charge the car up at work, come home, use some of that battery at home, go back to work, charge it up again.

50:11

Wow, interesting times. Now, I've always wondered a little bit.

50:16

I mean, let me be your accountant and I'm advising you sell more really cheap solar systems because it's easier to sell them, and then in five, six years time just do a runner and leave all the people in a lurch.

50:32

But you run with lots of pockets of cash.

50:35

Why wouldn't you do that?

50:37

I'm a little bit too young to retire and I don't know how far I could run.

50:39

The world's a very small place now, so for me it's.

50:43

I mean, we're obviously we're all in business to do well, but we're also in business.

50:49

It's also something I enjoy.

50:51

So I'm not interested in selling a cheap system, having all those problems come up, closing up, starting again and doing it again.

50:59

I've been doing it since 2008 and I plan to be doing it for quite a long time more.

51:04

So for me it's more about the solution and ensuring the solution works correctly, and then it is just selling in high volume.

51:13

Now, in regards to you, having been around since 2008,.

51:17

You must have a lot of existing customers that come back and recommend you to friends.

51:21

Is that's what's happening?

51:23

We do. I'd say over half of our residential sales is referrals, so we rely heavily on that return business A lot of those customers that we've installed over the past sort of 10, 12 years and now coming back to expand the systems and starting to add battery storage onto the systems and then eventually those customers will then come back for their EV charges as well.

51:46

Let's say I'm a customer. What's the installation process look like?

51:50

How long does it take?

51:51

So for us it's generally between sort of two to four weeks.

51:55

We try to keep our installation process for residential in that sort of lead time.

52:01

Commercial can blow out a bit further because there's a lot of back and forth with the DNSPs that try to get grid approvals.

52:08

But for residential we try to have a two to four week process, turnaround time from the sales to the actual installation and system handover.

52:17

The process for us we have the sales consultants who go out.

52:23

They'll vet the customer, they'll decide on the size of the system, they'll present the proposal and once the customer decides on what they want, it then comes into the in-house team.

52:33

From there we will then have a look at the installation, check the design and make sure that that is going to be the most efficient.

52:40

We send an installer at the site to actually check to see is the system going to work?

52:46

What type of brackets do we need? How much cable is required?

52:50

Is there any works to switch board that need to be done for the metering application?

52:53

Most companies wouldn't do that. They would just rock up on the day.

52:56

Yeah, yeah, but that's what sort of sets apart the solar companies from the solar, the companies that just sell solar.

53:04

So for that, and then, once we're happy with the installation, keep going that it's fine then goes across the admin team.

53:12

The admin team will then do the grid applications, the LEAs with the clients, energy retail, to organize the metering, organize all the procurement of the stock.

53:23

Once we then we go do the install.

53:25

Once we've done the install, it then comes back into the office again and then we quality check everything through our CRM to make sure that the installs are done exactly as per our quality standards.

53:35

And then all the data for the customer is saved in our CRM.

53:39

So if they call us in four or five years time, we have access to all the all the installation photos from the pre-inspection, the actual install.

53:48

And then obviously your monitoring as well. Yeah, so we set up the monitoring for every single system as well.

53:53

We train the client in how to read the monitoring.

53:55

The monitoring is great because if the customer calls up in a year's time just to see where they're saving on the electricity, if the bills haven't, one of the common things we find is they'll put a system in and then they'll start using double the amount of energy that they were using before the system went in.

54:13

So the solar system is doing its job, but they're now using more energy than they were before the system went in.

54:19

So the monitoring is a good way to demonstrate that the system is working and it's reaching those ROI targets.

54:25

But then it's also a way to then look at how to design the system in terms of adding a battery or expanding the system in the future as well.

54:33

We recommend every customer get solar analytics.

54:36

Not only is it for tracking the return on investment on the system and ensuring it's performing, but the performance management and the analytics you can get out of it in terms of your actual energy usage and the bill comparisons and ensuring you're the most out of your solar investment.

54:54

The solar analytics is by far the best product that I can use.

54:58

I think they've got a feature now also where it tells you within your area which one is the best energy retail plan, and they update that all the time.

55:05

So every year you can go through and check that you get actually the best plan for your feed in tariff and for your rates.

55:12

Have you recommended it and do you know anything about that?

55:15

Yeah. So we recommend everyone goes and at least has a look at the plan.

55:19

The plan optimizes a part of the solar analytics app.

55:22

That way they can see if they are on the best energy plan.

55:24

Because at the end of the day the energy retailers, they're all out to make the most money they can.

55:29

So if there's a simple way that the client can then just change energy plans to sell them to save a few dollars off the electricity bill, we recommend they should all do it.

55:38

And also I mean trying to compare electricity plans.

55:40

It's like comparing phone plans. I get dizzy just from it.

55:44

So if I get a little computer program that actually does that for me and spits out at the end the plan, that is definitely the best based on my consumption.

55:52

What better could I have?

55:54

Yeah, yeah, definitely, because it's a minefield, trying to work out what energy plan is going to benefit you, the best way of you, if you can have an AI, bloody spreadsheets and everything.

56:03

Have an app that they can tell you this.

56:06

If you put in this plan, you'll save X amount of dollars.

56:08

That's obviously the best way to do it Now, if I get a big electricity bill, I don't actually maybe have spare money to buy a solar system.

56:15

Are there finance options available?

56:18

Yeah, so there's quite a few finance options available now.

56:20

There's 0% interest finance options available that we use.

56:24

There's also green loans. There are a few other banks are now offering incentives for purchasing renewable energy products as well.

56:32

So those sort of ways it's a good way to offset the cost of the electricity so I'm sorry, the cost of a new solar system.

56:42

So you can install the solar system and rather than paying a lump sum for the solar system upfront, you can then have that put on a finance plan where the amount you're paying back in finance or payments is actually less than what you're actually saving for electricity.

56:58

So a lot of the times we can install the solar system.

57:01

It can be a cash flow positive investment.

57:05

I heard about a company called NRN that you guys had a bit of a community meeting with, whereby you can get a solar system with no cost upfront and it can save your electricity bill long term because you can buy the electricity cheaper that's coming out of the solar.

57:19

How does that whole thing work?

57:22

Yeah, so we started working with NRN group.

57:24

That's a newish sort of a concept in residential.

57:27

In commercial we've been doing it for quite a while power purchase agreements, where put the solar on the roof and rather than actually buying the solar they're buying the energy that's created from the solar.

57:38

So in commercial it's been around for quite a while. In residential it's a newer sort of a concept.

57:44

So with the NRN systems they actually cover the cost of all the equipment.

57:48

So they'll put the equipment in, they'll service and maintain the equipment and they use quality installation companies like Inspire Energy that will come in and do the installation.

57:57

So it's done 100% properly. But then the end user isn't actually perching a system, they're just actually buying the energy that systems created at a lower rate than what they would be if they were buying it through the energy retailer.

58:10

So let's say they pay 35 cents from the energy retailer, but for the power coming out of their own system they only pay 18 cents.

58:17

Yes, so they literally can have an electricity bill that is only half what they normally would pay.

58:24

Yeah, so effectively, what they're doing is, rather than buying from the power station that the energy retailers are using in the public network, they're basically putting their own power station system on the roof and buying the energy from that from the rooftop solar.

58:38

So it's actually one way to combine the cost of living pressures if you own your own house.

58:43

Yeah, definitely. So it's a way to then bring down your electricity bill without any investment whatsoever.

58:48

So you have another company who's actually investing in the, in the equipment that's going in, and you're just actually buying the energy at a cheaper rate then you would if you were going to buy it directly from from the energy retailers.

59:00

It's a no brainer for me. So I'm really just wondering in EVs only going to make a difference in that whole climate change argument if it actually is powered by solar and renewable, because if we get it from the coal fire power station we're back to square one.

59:15

So how could I actually drive my EV guilt free?

59:21

So obviously it becomes part of your energy energy independence.

59:25

If you, if you, can put in a larger solar system, a larger battery system in the home or in the business that can actually charge the EV, then that's, that's one way to offset that that sort of fossil fuel usage from the from the EV.

59:38

So we we are starting to see a lot of larger businesses start to invest in large scale solar and battery systems with the EV charges available for their staff, and I think that in the future that's going to become more of a more of an incentive for some of those larger companies to do that for their staff.

59:56

So could I come to your company and say, listen, I want a solar system, I want a battery, I want something that makes the solar go into my hot water, so not paying for that electricity, and I also want an EV charger.

1:00:09

Can you give me that whole set?

1:00:12

Yeah, so the benefit of, of, of inspiring energy and us being in the industry for so long, we, we've used all these technologies and we currently use all the technologies in in in sort of energy management.

1:00:23

So we, we sell the solar and we install the solar.

1:00:25

We, we sell and we install the batteries.

1:00:28

We sell and install the, the energy offset management devices like the catch power system, io controls on the inverter to to offset the energy into the, into the hot water systems.

1:00:41

We also supply and install EV charges as well.

1:00:43

So we, we, we are one stop shop and we can do all the, all the energy management systems.

1:00:49

And then if I have a problem in four, five years time, will you be around to help me?

1:00:52

We will. So that's.

1:00:53

that's the benefit of buying from from a larger local solar company that that have staff.

1:00:58

We we have relations with all the manufacturers that we use, so we can, we can assist them.

1:01:04

We can honor the the manufacturers warranties on behalf of the clients.

1:01:06

We also have staff that can, that can troubleshoot and and solve those sort of technical issues for the clients as well.

1:01:14

All right, well, thank you so much. It was really enlightening to learn more about your business.

1:01:19

Cool, thanks a lot. Thank you, I'm inspired.

1:01:26

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