0:00

Today we have Dan Spence from Solar White, from the Sunshine Coast, here and he can tell us all about solar, all what's happening today.

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But before you really start the podcast, we do have to ask you a big favor.

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It's a common tradition here Just to get us the good vibes.

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Could you please touch my ball that?

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one, absolutely Marcus.

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Oh, there we go. Yeah, keep it a bit longer so that it actually gets the vibes going.

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You see, you say, oh yeah that's very nice.

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Thank you, that looks right.

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You feel better now.

0:35

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Thank you for performing that little welcome act.

0:39

Tell us a little bit about Solar White.

0:45

You're on the Sunshine Coast.

0:46

Yeah, it's a great sport. We're fortunate it's the Sunshine Coast so we get lots of sunshine which ties in very nicely for solar.

0:53

How did you get into it? I think your dad used to run the company first.

0:55

For your second generation now is it?

0:57

No, we all started it together. So back in 2011, february 2011, I think it was we started had a relative that was working for a solar company, that sort of had, explained this new thing to us that hadn't really been seen much before, and we sort of saw what they were doing and thought, well, we can do a better job than the company that he was working for.

1:19

So he came and worked for us as well and it all started from there.

1:25

I mean, what's the key? That has been the magic of your success?

1:29

I think quality.

1:30

Quality of product, quality of installation.

1:33

In the early days nobody really understood the details of solar or what could go wrong, and we all learned the hard way.

1:42

And we weren't any different.

1:45

We saw products that weren't super cheap but weren't as good as we would have chosen now, for example.

1:53

So that's the biggest thing those products that have failed we've had to replace and fortunately for our customers, we've been around, whereas a lot of companies they've folded and the customers have left with all these what's called orphan systems and they've got no help.

2:09

So if you bought really cheap, then you actually pull it off.

2:13

Pretty much. That's often the case is that it'll get pulled off the roof and replaced and there's no other way of fixing it in some cases, unfortunately, whereas if it had been a quality system at the start, it'd still be going now and, yeah, you'd have many, many years to come still Pay a little bit more at the beginning.

2:35

Get the better quality gear, especially on the Sunshine Coast.

2:39

What's your conditions? Their humidity, so are they tough on a system?

2:44

Yeah, high heat, high humidity.

2:46

Our office, for example, is about one minute from the beach and we obviously naturally do a lot of work around that.

2:52

So, yeah, high salt levels as well, fairly high wind, so that all takes its toll on a solar panel or an inverter as well, and if you've got an inverter that's been positioned outside in a high salt environment, that's going to cause problems too.

3:05

So, yeah, for us, just go quality.

3:08

We don't even touch the mid-range anymore.

3:12

It's not worth it because we've tried that and still had issues.

3:15

So we've just got to stick to that quality into the market and it's paying off.

3:20

We've got a very good name because of it and we don't get too many issues, which is good.

3:26

So you don't look backwards fixing the old stuff, but you can focus on the new technologies et cetera, is it?

3:32

Correct, yeah. And also that protects our business as well, which therefore protects our customer, because a lot of companies that are still selling cheap systems.

3:40

Now you can still pick up a 6 and 1 half kilowatt system for $4,000 or $4 and 1 half grand, but it's probably going to fail the company that installed it's probably going to be disappearing and it's going to be the same problem over and over again, whereas us it costs a bit more, but we don't have to waste our time or money going back to fix all these systems because they just work.

4:05

We get very few issues If I can get a benefit of $1,600 or even $2,000 out of a good solar system per year and I pay $4,000 more for quality versus crap.

4:15

In two years I got my money back, but I potentially get a system that lasts 10 years longer Exactly, so I'm actually $16,000 better off.

4:25

Is that the logic?

4:27

Yep, a lot of people look at it and they go, oh, but I can save X amount now and you can, but in a very short period that system that you're putting on could pay for itself by going quality and it's not going to take maybe another two years, as you say, to pay for a quality system.

4:42

In terms of the return, it's worth just taking a little bit longer to get an ROI than rushing out trying to get your money back in two years and then it failing in three.

4:54

It's actually a bit greedy really to expect something that's supposed to last 25 years to get your money back in two years.

5:02

Yeah, but you're going to any pub in Australia.

5:04

There's poke machines everywhere. It's a gambling nation and people will see that.

5:09

Four grand price tag and go. Well, let's try it.

5:13

And unfortunately, they get burnt? Do you sometimes get called out to systems that are dead as a duck and there's no manufacturer of the products around and the customer has high expectations that you can still bring it back to life?

5:24

All the time, people are naturally hopeful that this system's broken and they're going to fix it for $5.

5:32

Unfortunately, it's just not the case. It's going to be.

5:35

In some cases you'll get there and it might be a eight-year-old system, that's you know.

5:42

It's got recalled isolators on it in a lot of cases.

5:45

Sometimes there'll be all sorts of other problems alongside the problem that we've been called out for.

5:52

When you get called out, what are the key issues why the system can't be repaired?

5:55

Is it that the framing is corroded and you can't even get the panels off?

5:59

Is it water ingress? Is it that the fuses have blown?

6:03

Is the inverter is dead? I mean, what are the key reasons?

6:06

Water ingress is the biggest issue and you get water into panels.

6:09

They're just going to stop working.

6:11

So panels can they be repaired if there's a problem?

6:14

No no, no, there's. If you've got a, you know, if it's something like an MC4 plug on the back, potentially if that's burnt out you could chop it off and put another one on there, that's going to be all right.

6:25

But if you've got a seal that's gone or a junction box that's gone, it's the panels broken and needs replacing.

6:31

So it's and that's all right.

6:34

If it's in the time of you know short time of installation, they're easy enough to find.

6:38

But if you're looking at something five, six, seven years down the track, if the manufacturer's you know disappeared, it's going to be a very hard thing to do.

6:47

So for us it's just put something good on.

6:50

You don't have to worry about it. You're going to, you're going to have a system there that you're not going to have to keep fixing and patching up and paying for people to come out and replace parts or get it going again.

7:03

So just do it once and do it right.

7:05

What's the mix now, with customers going for batteries as well versus going solar only?

7:11

Batteries are getting hugely popular, which is something that I think we all knew had happened, but I didn't think it had happened as much as it has in the last sort of 12 or 18 months.

7:22

It's if we, you know, in the last 12 months we've installed more batteries than we've installed in the last 12 years.

7:28

It's really just come out of nowhere and taken off and, you know, still like we don't sort of sell batteries as a fairytale, sort of you know magic ending to your power bill.

7:41

It's something that's there for different reasons and a lot of people are doing it because they want to be more sustainable, they want to have power security that if they get blackouts, they're still going to have power.

7:53

Obviously, you know, if you're in a rural area, you could potentially have a generator, but if you're in suburbia, yeah, you can't really be having generators running.

8:02

So, yeah, people wanting blackout protection is a big thing and a lot of fears about grid security and the grid dropping out.

8:11

So we're getting more and more people doing it for those reasons.

8:15

And then just the people that just want the battery because they want the newest technology or you want to be part of the sort of the battery revolution that we're going on and you know the world is electrifying.

8:26

Everything's going electric, whether that's, you know, not just your lights and your power points, but now we're seeing it in a huge way with cars, and you know, you look at electric scooters that weren't even on the streets two years ago.

8:39

Now they're buddy everywhere, tear up the roads, sometimes illegally, if most of the time illegally.

8:46

Yeah, as a small local business on the Sunshine Coast, you're also obviously a local employer with your staff.

8:53

How much do you depend on your staff?

8:57

How important they are to actually deliver the quality out to the customer.

9:00

All our installs are all done in-house, so we don't subcontract anything out.

9:04

We tried that when we first started and, yeah, it didn't work.

9:09

Yeah, basically, quality wasn't there.

9:11

You don't have that same control and what you think is being done isn't necessarily getting done.

9:17

So for us, having the staff in-house has been really important.

9:22

But making sure that they're happy is crucial and you know, like the apprentices that I talked about earlier, you know we've got training boards set up for them to sort of practice doing other bits and pieces as well.

9:32

You know I don't want to put an apprentice through an apprenticeship to be in electrician and they get to the end of the four years and they don't know how to be in electrician.

9:42

That's they need to know.

9:45

Those are the bits and pieces as well. So, yeah, keeping the staff happy is important.

9:49

Install cruise it's a really hard job.

9:53

It is especially in, you know, in the Sunshine Coast it's hot and in summer it's a very, very hard job.

10:02

So you've got to keep them happy, you've got to keep them morale as high as possible.

10:05

So you're basically focused on keeping them happy, because happy staff means happy customers.

10:10

Exactly right.

10:11

Yeah, yeah. If you've got a staff member that's unhappy at work and grumpy, then that's going to be passed forward and the customer is going to say that and yeah, you don't want that.

10:21

The, you know, customers bought a quality system.

10:24

They needed quality solar system, but they also needed quality experience when it's getting installed and that's you know what they can, what they can see.

10:32

Can you put really genuinely your hand on your heart and you say solar will save money?

10:39

Absolutely, solar will save money. We've seen it.

10:43

You have 12 years, you know. I know myself.

10:46

I've got 11 and a half kilowatts on my roof.

10:48

It's solar saves a lot of money.

10:50

If you are out all day and you've got nothing being used in the house, your savings are going to be lower.

10:57

But if you've got things like hot water systems, pool pumps, you've got, you know, people at home or you know even just high weekend use, solar's going to save you, you know, quite a substantial amount of money and pay for itself fairly quickly as well.

11:12

I would say that a crappy DAPI system possibly can pay itself off within about two, two and a half years.

11:18

But what about the quality system?

11:20

What's the timeframe for that?

11:22

Oh, look, it depends, but sort of in that sort of four and a half to six years we're now seeing more and more electric cars being promoted.

11:29

The new federal government's pushing it. Electric cars and solar is it pushing the product?

11:35

Yeah, a lot of people that are getting the EVs they want naturally want to be able to charge that car as cheaply as possible.

11:43

They'd much rather charge it at home rather than go and sit in the supermarket or, you know, sit in the shopping center for ages whilst their car charges.

11:52

A lot of them are putting solar on so that their car can charge throughout the day.

11:57

And you guys can help with that.

11:59

Yeah, so we could do EV charges as well and, yeah, that's our main focus of the business is solar, solar batteries and EV charges From four or five years ago to now, have you seen a difference in the EV charge requirements and requests?

12:15

Huge. Yeah, four or five years ago, we didn't have any requests for an EV charger install.

12:20

Now it happens, yeah, multiple times a week.

12:24

So, yeah, it's.

12:26

It's a growing, growing industry.

12:28

That's, you know, developing. We're seeing more and more EVs on the road all the time.

12:34

It's something that you know, a few years ago you'd rarely see.

12:39

I remember being in China back in I think 2016, and BYD had a their first electric car on display there as this sort of prototype and everyone was amazed at it and that was the first time I'd seen an electric vehicle.

12:54

And now we're seeing them all over the place, and BYDs in Australia too, but as well as a lot of other manufacturers.

13:02

And, yeah, it's exciting times and, you know, exciting for us as a solar business, because cars use a lot of power and we can we can create that with solar panels.

13:13

But has the EV vehicle now changed anything in regards to the size of the solar system?

13:18

It's easy to go right You've got an EV, so you've got a lot of power, you see, so you need a massive solar system.

13:24

You look at it and they go yes, I do, but I'm going to charge that EV at night and I'm never going to be here in the day, and blah, blah, blah.

13:32

You don't necessarily need to go too big because we can't do much with that EV.

13:37

It's going to, you know, unless you're looking at charging it to a battery and then discharging the battery to charge the EV.

13:42

That's different. But if it's just the basic usage in the house, then we wouldn't go too big.

13:49

But you know, if they're here and they want to charge the car at the weekends, which is what a lot of people are doing, then we can have a system that's big enough to cope with that.

13:58

So for us it's just sort of diving in a little bit further than you know.

14:02

Just let's sell you a 30 kilowatt system because you need a lot of power, or a 20 kilowatt system because you need a lot of power, because if that system is not being used, they're going to be one of those customers that is going to be pretty frustrated with solar because they've been mislead or didn't understand what they were getting, and for us, we'd rather educate the customer a bit more, and then they, you know, they're happy with the outcome.

14:26

We want them to go and tell all their friends and family how good solar is, not the opposite.

14:30

So and unfortunately we see it a lot yeah, people have bought 13 kilowatt systems and all they needed was three.

14:36

But the salesman got a commission and the company got rich.

14:42

But it wasn't the right thing for the customer.

14:45

So for us, I'd go. I'd much rather sell you a you know, a smaller system than a system that's too big.

14:50

That's that's sort of what we're based on.

14:53

Our reputation is is a quality reputation.

14:55

Although Google reviews are great, you don't get that by misleading people.

15:02

So, talking about Google reviews, what's that look like?

15:05

Yeah, five stars obviously.

15:07

You got, you got, you got a few five stars have you Pretty much all of them, yeah, so many.

15:13

About 180, 160, something like that.

15:16

I think that's a good result, but is every single one of five stars, is it?

15:22

pretty much, I think. Yeah, I think there's maybe one or two that aren't quite five stars, but yeah, I'm still pretty happy with that.

15:29

12 years of business to have have no, no negative reviews, I'm pretty happy.

15:35

But you must have had a challenging install, you must have had a cranky.

15:38

Make it a German old retired engineer customer, Come on they're everywhere you must have had a challenging situation.

15:47

Yeah, the Germans are a nightmare, Marcus you know, that's what's up, dude.

15:54

Yeah, the retired engineers, they, they, they're great and they certainly are challenging and very, very, very detailed.

16:03

But you know what? We like them as well, because we get neighbors, the ringers, and they go.

16:08

You, you know, you, you kept friends happy and if you keep him happy, then I don't even know it need to know anything.

16:14

Just sign me up, because he's a hard man to keep happy.

16:18

So yeah, we see that a bit and you know we've got some customers that are very, very, very, very detailed and that's also part of the market that we're in.

16:31

We're in that quality into the market for us Don't want to touch the mid range or the cheap stuff anymore.

16:37

It's just, it's just prone we failure.

16:39

So we just stick to the quality and and we that comes that certain type of customer as well that you know that one's concerned about the quality and then has the questions and things.

16:49

So that's, that's all right, we like. We like them because, yeah, they do, and a lot of our business comes from referrals, so you keep those people happy and they spread the word.

16:58

So I know of an installer in Tasmania who had a solar system that was put in so remote they actually had to fly everything in, okay, because I think it was on a mountain with very little access, road and all that kind of thing.

17:11

Have you ever had a solar system?

17:13

That was really a solid challenge, and can you tell us about it?

17:18

Yeah, there will be, definitely. There's a lot of ruse that are an absolute nightmare and the customer's expectation is no debt, it's a.

17:27

It's a huge. Well, no dent, yeah, but you know they're.

17:30

They think it's a huge big roof so we can just fill it with solar.

17:34

But it might be a huge big roof but there's there's angles everywhere and valleys and it's shade and they can be a nightmare.

17:43

So we get a lot of that and particularly again, the market that we work in.

17:47

You know we work on some nicer homes and nicer homes are often designed by architects that get a bit too excited and the roofs are a bit crazy.

17:56

So, yeah, it's quite common for us, I guess, that the job can be a nightmare.

18:01

But yeah, we just we do what we can do.

18:04

We go out to every job beforehand so there's no surprises Like the install it's for us.

18:09

You know, some companies just sell on the phone and the installers rock up and work out a plan, whereas as we're going to go to every job first and check it out and then you know, then there's no surprises for install day, or you know, hopefully nothing, nothing too major.

18:24

So I hear the old trick, which is that you look at the roof only from Google Maps.

18:31

You sell the system on a given price, but then on the day you find all the problems and charge more.

18:38

Yep, hear that a lot.

18:40

It doesn't happen with us. I had a case maybe a week ago, maybe two weeks ago, one of our sales guys missed something.

18:48

The salesman had sold us a three phase site and it was a.

18:52

It ended up being two phase and you know, in credit to him, it was a very hard thing to see.

18:58

You know he's not an electrician so he hadn't sort of taken the board apart or anything like that, obviously.

19:02

But it all appeared to be three phase, ended up being two phase.

19:06

So we drove out two single phase inverters out to site, but two single phase inverters on rather than one three phase inverter, because a three phase inverter won't work with two phase power.

19:17

It's, it's. It's not going to happen. It's not even going to turn on.

19:20

Customer was happy. We're not going to turn around and go.

19:23

Oh, by the way, you're always an extra $800.

19:25

We just went. Yep, that was our mistake.

19:28

We put them on there.

19:30

So there's no different to the customer. They had one instead of one three phase inverter.

19:34

They got two five kilowatt single phase.

19:36

They still ended up with a 10 kilowatt inverter. But yeah, for us, we're not going to go out and then go.

19:42

You need to pay us more money because we missed something. So it's in 12 years.

19:46

I can't think of a single time where we've done that and I don't think there ever would be a time and like that situation last week.

19:53

It was just yeah, it was a mistake, it gets sorted and it's done and you got your five star review.

20:00

Yeah, everyone's, everyone's happy and everyone everyone can can move on.

20:07

So how does the customer really understand what's involved in an install?

20:12

It depends on the customer. So some customers, will you know, have absolutely no idea what a solar panel is or what an inverter is or what anything is, and some will know an awful lot.

20:21

So we sort of gauge that customer and then run them through and also make sure that what they understand is correct.

20:28

You know with how solar is going to work and you know how it's going to react with with different things and what, what the plan is.

20:37

So we just explain it all to people, you know.

20:40

We come out, we do the inspection. If they want to go ahead, then they sign off on the quotes and then we get the application in through to the network providers, through to Energex or Ergon, and they will, they'll approve that system generally, or they'll come back and say, oh, it needs to be smaller, or you need to be export limited, or whatever it's going to be, and then we can install it.

21:02

And then, once it's installed, the retailer will come out.

21:06

So, whether it's, you know, your power company, agl or Origin or whoever, they'll pop out and replace the meter or do an upgrade on the meter and then it's, it's running, it's, it's a solar system.

21:17

I think a lot of people don't understand, really, if they want a solar system or a solar and battery system, how do you advise them which one is the better way to go right now?

21:28

We're very careful with batteries, so we sell an awful lot of batteries now, but we also make sure that that customer understands that it's a much longer return on investment for a battery.

21:38

You know, if you pull the solar side of it out and you just have the battery on its own, without merging that ROI between the solar and the battery, then the return on the battery is going to be quite a long time.

21:50

If it's merged with the solar, then that's different because the solar payback pulls it right down.

21:56

But it really depends on the customer.

21:59

So for us, a lot of people, it's suitable to just go solar.

22:04

But a lot of people, particularly in rural areas you know, if they're in areas where they're getting a lot of power cuts and they just want that power security, they want the battery Do?

22:14

you do any education with people who get a battery?

22:17

Because I know an installer installed a battery and within about two weeks he had a very angry customer on the phone saying that the battery wasn't really doing very well because they had a blackout.

22:27

And within two hours the power in the house was already down and they were sitting in the dark and the installer asked them what they had done and they said oh well, the blackout was happening.

22:38

I was very bored so I baked a cake in Marvin.

22:42

Yeah, we do. The way that I explain it to customers when they're talking about batteries is that you can have the battery, and the battery is there for you know, to get you through, for your nighttime usage and things like not buying power from the grid.

22:56

But when you've got a blackout, you know, unless you want to go and spend an absolute fortune which you know if they want to do that, that's fine.

23:02

But if they just want to spend, you know, your 10 or 15 grand on a battery, then that's fine, but it's when you've got a power cut.

23:10

You're camping, you know you're running your essentials.

23:13

You're not running the aircon, you're not running the dryer, you're not running the washing machine.

23:17

You know you're just running the essentials and we've got to be careful.

23:22

Playstation and the light, the beer fridge as long as the beer fridge is cold, happy days.

23:28

But yeah, they're really just very selective as to as to what they want, what they can run, unless you want to start spending, yeah, big money on it.

23:40

So it's basically there, the batteries there, to back up your fridge, to back up your lights, maybe a little bit of entertainment so that you're not sitting there boring Dory, or maybe this is the night to read a book, and then in the next day, should you still be in the blackout, the solar will actually back up your battery again, and so you're okay again for the night to do your normal consumption.

24:02

Pretty well, as long as you're not, I think even the aircon running it for half an hour to cool the home down a bit would be okay, as long as you're not pushing it for hours and hours and have it run overnight, because in the morning you will be stuffed.

24:15

Yeah, it depends on, completely depends on the setup.

24:17

So in some cases in the blackout you've only got certain circuits, in which case the aircon might not be on that.

24:23

Some batteries you know it's a whole house backup, but you still need to be careful with what you run.

24:28

Some systems we get some people and they got.

24:32

I'm not worried about backup.

24:34

I live in a brand new estate.

24:37

We don't get power issues. Yeah, it costs more to back up because you know there's a fair bit of work to do there, so a lot of people don't want to pay that extra.

24:47

I'll just leave it for now and see how I go.

24:49

So, in which case, if they get a power cut, they've got no power, but that's their choice and they they know about that when you explain that because I know of customers who bought a battery without a blackout protection who had no idea.

25:04

And the company just sold them the cheapest battery.

25:06

They thought they had a battery, but then there was no blackout.

25:09

Do you explain that?

25:11

Yeah, we explain that Also battery sizing.

25:14

So we're seeing like a lot of those companies and they're sending out letters in the mail so you can get a battery for whatever, or ads on the TV.

25:22

They're three kilowatt batteries.

25:23

They're tiny tiny batteries.

25:24

It's going to get you through nothing at all. Yeah, it's, you know, you're just not going to survive off it.

25:32

I actually ran this company that sends these letters out for the three kilowatt system of less than 3000, the big discount and all that.

25:40

And as soon as I started having the conversation they were trying to upsell me to a big battery which was actually more expensive than the installer down the road.

25:49

Yeah, yeah, it's just about getting that lead and getting that inquiry and then they'll.

25:53

They'll try and, yeah, sell you a big system.

25:57

That probably isn't great to start with.

26:01

But yeah, we see it a lot and we see a lot of companies selling very small batteries because it's their way of saying to the customer you can get a battery and that's good.

26:12

But if the customer wants to come back in three years time ago, right, well, I'm now ready to expand that battery.

26:17

They're probably going to turn around and go all right, well, we probably need to start again.

26:20

Because you know, when you look at my phone, like my phone, you know it's now 12 months old and the battery is not as good as it was 12 months ago.

26:29

I then push that out to three years.

26:31

The battery is definitely nowhere near as good as it was three years ago.

26:35

So you can't in a lot of cases you can't just put another battery on, because you can't just mismatch like that.

26:41

So Also a lot of times the manufacturers have changed models two or three times by then, and the old one won't necessarily talk very well to the new one.

26:49

Yeah so my golden advice is if you're after battery, you get the right sizing at the beginning.

26:54

Do not get fooled by the bloke who says, oh, you get a small one now, when you got more money to come back, because when you want to come back in three or four years time, technology will have changed, battery management systems will have changed and, as you said, you're going to start again.

27:09

Yeah, exactly, and we explain it to customers and I've had customers that have come out and put on a, say, three or four batteries in a stack and then want to add another one, and we go and put another one on.

27:25

And then they ring again a year later and they want to, or six months later and they want to put another one on.

27:29

And every time we say, like, is this where you want to be?

27:33

Yeah, this is definitely it. And then we have to go back out.

27:36

But unfortunately, if we're doing it all at the start, if we're going to put six batteries in a stack, all the work goes into the first one.

27:45

To put the next battery on, it's just a case of lifting it on and then putting another one on top of that, putting another one on top of that, but that takes two minutes, whereas if we've got to go back to site, instead of taking two minutes, it can take half a day in some cases.

27:59

I don't think a lot of battery manufacturers recommend that.

28:02

Yeah, so that's what you've got to be really limited. You really only want to do it within the first 12 months.

28:06

So which is why it takes so long to do it at a later date because you've got to charge and discharge all the batteries, get them to all the right levels, calculate you know, do a lot of electrical calculations to sort of make sure that they're all in line with each other.

28:22

I thought it was just plug and play.

28:24

It is if it's done at the start.

28:26

But yeah, there are issues that you know.

28:31

If the customer just do it once and do it right, that's basically where it should be.

28:36

Now I've noticed, on your shirt you've got the little REC symbol.

28:39

So REC is a panel manufacturer, is it?

28:42

So we started selling REC back when we first started in business in 2011.

28:47

And they've just been incredible. We just don't get issues in that whole 12 year period of two panels.

28:53

Fail and that's it.

28:56

I mean, let's, let's do the math very quickly.

28:58

You would have sold maybe I don't know maybe five seasons, 250 systems, 10, 2,500.

29:06

So maybe on average you'd sell between what two and a half and 3000 panels a year, or am I kind of somewhere?

29:13

No, to be more than that.

29:14

Okay, so we're talking at least 25,000, 30,000 panels, is it?

29:18

Yeah, 10s and 10s of 1000s of panels. And yeah, they just, they just work.

29:23

How many you got back? Two, yeah, two very minor issues with a system that was on the beach and REC replaced, and it was at the time.

29:34

It was a very old system. It was one of the first systems that we sold and we did a check on it just before the warranty was up, because at the time panels back then had a much shorter warranty and, yeah, there's a bit of corrosion on some of the connectors.

29:48

So REC replaced the whole lot.

29:51

There was three months left to go on the warranty and for me that's how I judge a company's, not by, you know, price or how it looks or anything like that.

30:01

It's like what happens when shit hits the fan.

30:04

How are you going to treat me and how are you going to handle it?

30:06

And they were excellent. Yeah, the worst.

30:10

I've got other companies that are a nightmare. Peppi Lapu, yeah.

30:15

It's, it's, it's hard sometimes, so you know what you want Warranty.

30:20

Yeah, yeah, no chance.

30:23

Tell the customer to jump.

30:25

Yeah, yeah it's. We've seen it now on a panel that we did sell.

30:29

That was a mid-range panel on. They went, you know they disappeared and and you know, supposedly they didn't go bust but they sort of just left Australia and wouldn't respond to anything.

30:41

And and now they're. You know we've had systems that have failed and we've had to replace them at our cost because you know, if the systems failed we need to get that running again for the customer.

30:50

The consumer law then unfortunately puts you on the hook, doesn't?

30:53

it. It does, and you know we're fully aware of it and we've got to make it right for the customer and get it working again.

31:00

So that's what we do and, unfortunately, when that company comes back to Australia which they've now recently done yeah, that hurts a bit because they still won't warrant anything.

31:11

Not because they've started a new ABN Yep.

31:14

Yeah, yeah, that's it. Same branding it's not us.

31:16

I know it's the same logo and the same people and the same office, but no, it's different company.

31:22

No, we see that a lot. So the advice is so you are picking better panels and better invoders.

31:26

All we do now is REC. So yeah, we've always had REC as our premium and now all we do is REC.

31:35

But within the brand. They do have different T-Panels, is it?

31:40

What's the story there?

31:41

Yeah, yeah, so they've got the REC Twinpeak.

31:43

So the Twinpeak 5 is the one that we currently have, and the Alpha Pure R, which is basically Alpha Pure R, is pretty much the best of the best solar panel in the world, so you pay big money for it, but if you want the best, that's what you need.

32:02

So you get higher efficiency, which means you can actually get more panels on the roof.

32:04

That means if you've got a tight roof, you can get a bigger system.

32:07

Yep.

32:08

Higher efficiency, lower degradation.

32:11

So they deteriorate less over, let's say, a 10-year period.

32:13

Yeah, perform better under hot weather.

32:15

Yep, so you get more output, because a lot of people don't realize but solar under hot weather over 25 degrees actually doesn't go better.

32:23

It actually can slow down a bit, correct, yeah.

32:27

It makes a huge reduction in power. Some panels they'll be rated at something and they're actually rated at a much lower, so they're flat line yeah.

32:38

When it gets really hot on the roof, you want the air conditioning, you want everything to run, but actually your panels are struggling.

32:43

Yeah, your panels are lagging behind, or you need something that, especially where we are, Sunshine Coast funnily enough we've got a lot of sunshine, so you need it to be able to work well in those higher temperatures.

32:55

And yeah, REC do that. We've both a Twin Peak and the Alpha Pure R Right, so I noticed you've got an award there last night there was a ceremony.

33:05

Can I have a ask you what you actually got? Did you get the You're going to.

33:07

You're unfortunately.

33:09

Are you stuck with the microphone? Yeah, I'm stuck a bit with the microphone.

33:13

Go and squeeze, go and get that inspector gadget's hand out.

33:17

So what did you get? So we got, here we got.

33:19

Two for the price of one. Yeah, so we got two awards last night, which was really good.

33:22

I was pretty happy with that and surprised by that.

33:26

Can I have a look? We've got that one there, oh geez.

33:29

Oh, sorry, I just broke the corner off.

33:32

Kidding, kidding, kidding yeah it used to be pointy, so you are Queensland partner of the year.

33:40

So that means from an RC perspective you're the best company in Queensland, is it?

33:42

I'll take that.

33:46

Yeah, we sold more panels than anybody else in Queensland as well, which I was really pleased with.

33:50

And then that got topped off with that one, which is, we sold more panels than anyone else in Australia.

33:56

So happy news, oh, wow, wow, wow.

33:59

So I suppose, if you win the one for Australia, you've got to win the one for Queensland.

34:02

It kind of comes by default Great.

34:06

Yeah, that was something. I was really pleased to receive and yeah, we're a small company, we work hard.

34:13

I'm really focused on that quality end of the market and it's really really really good it's.

34:20

You know, there's always, you know, if you've got quiet time, it's always like, oh, maybe there's a cheaper option that we can sell more.

34:26

Well, now let's stick to our guns, let's stick quality.

34:28

It's going to pay off and it's paying off and you know, we've got a really good brand out there.

34:32

We've got, you know, really good reputation and we're obviously but do you think inverters are a little bit more vulnerable than a really top quality panel?

34:40

Yes, yeah. So you know top quality panels generally not going to get too many issues with top quality inverters.

34:48

You're still going to get some issues with cheap inverters.

34:51

You're going to get five minutes out of them but a decent inverter generally you know like we install a lot, so you know our failure rates.

35:00

You know fairly, fairly low, but you still get issues because we've got thousands and thousands of inverters out there, just things just stopping working.

35:09

You know some grow, we get a few fuses that have blown and things like that.

35:12

But the biggest thing is just their response.

35:16

You know how they are. Frowny's generally pretty good on it.

35:18

Sungrow if we've had Sungrow issues, we've got a direct WhatsApp group with the Sungrow technicians and we can pretty much have something diagnosed and a decision in five minutes.

35:32

So it's really good for us.

35:35

I think it's quite important that the after sale is going quickly because the customer of the system is down.

35:40

They're actually losing real money, yep.

35:42

So it's no good buying a cheap system and then have it out for three months and you're missing out on the money.

35:47

And three months people think, ah, can't be happening.

35:49

I've heard of systems being out for longer than three months.

35:52

So let's say, if there is an issue diagnosed with the inverter, what's your average back to life?

35:59

Oh look, I'd say probably, you know, about a week.

36:03

If we can get it shorter than that, we will do.

36:06

But you know, we're in the Sunshine Coast in Queensland and the manufacturers are generally down in, you know.

36:14

East-earth, wales, or. Victoria's.

36:16

It depends on where they're coming from. So there's just a logistics thing that things are going to go on a truck and that takes time, you know.

36:24

So yeah, that's sort of roughly about where it sits.

36:29

It's rare that it would push out much longer than that, that's an excellent number.

36:35

Yeah, we generally try and get it. I'd like it quicker.

36:37

When you go and see a customer, or your sales guys see your customer, how do they actually calculate the savings?

36:42

Are they just kind of going, ooh, it'll be this way or that way, or is it a bit more sophisticated?

36:49

Yeah, a bit more to it than that, and I guess with us we sort of ask a lot more questions and see, you know what their usage is like, what you know.

36:57

Are they at home in the day or are they at work all the time?

37:00

Do they? You know? What are they running? Are they running pool?

37:03

We'll often go and have a look at that pool pump, if they are, and see how much power it's drawing.

37:08

Is it just a pool pump or is there a pool heater on there as well?

37:10

You know, try and get a bit more of an idea as to load We'll actually look at their power bills as well, which gives you a generic sort of average daily use spread out over the three month period or the 30 day period, depending on what it is, and just try and get as much information as we can so that we can accurately, as accurately as possible, sort of give them a bit of an estimate as to what the savings are going to be, and we're realistic with it.

37:39

You know, if they're on a, you know if they're on a plan, that's really good, then you know, we'll base it on what their plan is rather than you know.

37:51

So if they're only paying 22 cents.

37:53

But we know that, for example, I'm paying 33 cents with energy Australia.

37:58

That works for me because of the feeding tariff I get and my usage and things.

38:02

But if someone's only paying 20 cents we don't naturally go oh well, if you're paying 33 cents you'd be saving more, because that's not what they're paying.

38:13

They're only paying 20 cents and hopefully they'll be able to stay on a similar plan to that when they transfer to solar.

38:18

So yeah, we give them as much information as we can and get as much information from them as we can.

38:26

And you know, look at those air conditioners and look at consumption patterns and really try and push a bit harder to find out what they're actually going to use.

38:38

And you know, if someone's got a let's say they've got a heat pump for the pool and they've got air conditioners, chances are the heat pump comes on at the time of year when the air conditioner turns off.

38:50

So you don't necessarily need a system that's big, so big that it can do the heat pump and the air conditioner, because they might be a similar load, but one you know the air conditioners might get turned off in March and that's when the heat pump gets turned on.

39:04

So yeah, you don't you know, just pushing a bit deeper just to get that bit more information, and that's what's going to give the customer.

39:12

You know, more, more accurate.

39:15

Or finely tuned outcome, isn't it? Yeah, exactly.

39:19

Rather than just oh yeah, you've got a big bill, here's a 15 kilowatt system, see you later which a lot of sales guys do, absolutely yeah.

39:25

And unfortunately, a lot of sales people just don't understand it either.

39:29

I've interviewed them.

39:32

I've had sales people come to me oh, I've been working this all over 10 years.

39:36

I'm like all right, well, tell me about this, tell me about you know whatever.

39:40

Tell me about Volte Drys, tell me.

39:43

And they got absolutely no idea that they are sales people, whereas for us you know my sales team they're not the best sales people.

39:54

They're honest, are they?

39:57

They're honest, but they're also, you know, they're more informed.

40:02

So you know that's the end of the market, that we're working.

40:05

We're working at quality end. So we've got to have informed customers and to do that, they're going to get that information from our sales team.

40:14

So they need to be informed and understand it and watch out for it, so that people don't get sort of caught out and things like that.

40:22

So Wow, I don't think I'd be a good sales guys for you.

40:26

I'd be just selling the system. Yeah.

40:29

Yeah, $0 bill.

40:31

Yeah, never paying electricity bill again.

40:34

I'm sure you'd sell lots of systems and leave me with lots of problems.

40:38

But no, it's for us.

40:40

I'd much rather sell less systems, but the customers, you know, got the best outcome and we lose jobs because of it.

40:47

I know that we've lost jobs because you know we haven't you know, turned an angle or whatever.

40:54

You're the one guy who said you're going to have to upgrade your switchboard and there'll be $800.

40:57

And all the others didn't tell him, but charged him on the day before.

41:02

Oh, by the way, we didn't charge you, so now we need to charge you.

41:06

We see that a lot, unfortunately we're.

41:08

You know it gets sold on Neymap, and you know.

41:12

Which is a satellite overview Yep and obviously not getting the details.

41:17

Yeah, there's no detail. You can't see that, it's a brittle tile, yeah, or Spanish terracotta tile, or something like that, or asbestos, even, which you know we want.

41:27

We want to just best us, obviously, but you just can't see that.

41:32

And then the installers get there and go by the way, you, you know, you get a lot of money.

41:34

Oh, by the way, you you know, you're going to need to pay another $1000, or we know you've taken the day off work, but um yeah, no point.

41:42

Now the solar industry is here to help save the world, the climate change issues and all that.

41:48

So we all supposed to be really good people Are there such things as solar sharks and solar cowboys.

41:55

Absolutely, unfortunately, a lot of them.

41:59

And that's I think it's a mixture of people that are just out to make a quick dollar.

42:07

And, you know, I'd hope that people don't deliberately want to just take people for a ride and rip them off, but I know it certainly does happen.

42:16

People selling really cheap systems for huge prices is one problem.

42:23

Then you get people that are selling cheap systems at cheap prices and cheap install and everything's just terrible.

42:32

And then you get the ones that think they're good but don't actually know very much, and they can be a problem as well because they're not actually installing it correctly, and that can be a real problem too, because they're.

42:49

Then you know, they might build up a big business or they might be training other people.

42:54

And I've had it. I've had installers come to us that have been installing for years and realize that, oh, we actually don't know how to do a very good job.

43:04

We thought we were doing the best we could do, but now we've realized that it was crap.

43:10

And I've had installers turn up in the last two days because it's too slow working with us, because we want to do too much to get it right.

43:19

But I my guys know that I'm particular, with everything, I want it to be right, I want it to be perfect.

43:27

And if it takes longer to do it right, or make it take longer and do it right.

43:31

If it's quicker to do it another way and it's going to be cheaper but not as good, come on, do it the longer way.

43:40

Let's cut a couple of corners. Yeah Well, look, it'd be great to do it in the short term, but in the long run it's going to bite you on the ass.

43:47

And the same with panels.

43:51

You know with panels, you know a cheap panel will last, for you know, in theory, you know a few years or five years.

43:57

Or you know, if you do really well, you might get sort of eight years out of it.

44:02

But yeah, it's just a.

44:05

It's not a good idea. Put something on that's going to last and do it properly and take away that risk factor as well.

44:12

You know, if you're, if you're going into a home, the last thing you want to do is pulling it off.

44:16

And also we see it a bit now where people have got to revisit that sort of thing we were talking about earlier, but where people have got an old system that's got maybe a little system, that's got maybe 20 panels on there or 25 panels on there, and then now, seven years later, they've all failed.

44:34

The manufacturers disappeared, the installers disappeared, Everyone's gone and we need to replace it.

44:38

We might only be putting 20 panels on the roof or 15 panels on the roof to do the same job as the old system is doing with a bigger system, and in some cases they've had the roof sprayed and they've painted around the part, the panels, and now you've got two different colors on your roof or just the roof is faded.

44:56

It's faded differently under where the old system was and your roof can look a bit nasty.

44:59

So just putting something decent on for that reason as well is is important.

45:04

We get the rebate partly for the government wanted to support environmental reasons and create more renewable energy.

45:12

So if I then turf that system after five, six years, the environmental outcomes are terrible.

45:18

Absolutely yeah, and it's. It's awful. We have you.

45:21

I've seen pictures of warehouses of just piles and piles of panels where they've, you know, they've just ripped the metal off, they've ripped the frame off to to use for whatever, and all the glass and all the cells are all just there piled up and that'll all go in the ground one day.

45:37

And yeah, it's not. That's not good for the environment.

45:40

No, it's. It's terrible. And and we've sold panels that have failed and and you know less than lent to us.

45:47

And that was in the early days of business and I wish we'd never done it, but at the time we thought they were okay and it's sort of a slightly cheaper alternative to to the real top end.

45:56

In the long run it didn't, it didn't work out.

46:00

We've replaced thousands of panels and that's cost us a lot of money, but also it's cost the environment a lot too, and we learned from that.

46:08

But unfortunately, a lot, of, a lot of installers and I don't like to say most installers, but it's, it's probably not far off A lot of them are selling that, that mid range and the lower range system.

46:19

That's just not going to last the test of time.

46:22

No, I mean it's, it's. We live in a in a brutal country with harsh environments and solar panels.

46:29

They get hammered, so you need something decent that's going to last, whereas the cheap ones are going to get ripped off and they're going to get thrown in the ground.

46:36

And the recycling facilities that are just starting to roll out we're seeing a couple of them A good idea in concept, but I know a lot of installers are just taking them to the tip because it's cheaper or it's it's easier in some cases, in that they can just load the truck up and just go and drop them all off.

46:55

Or yeah, it's, it's not, it's not good.

46:58

So in the future, really, you would say that the waste transfer station shouldn't accept solar panels, so they have to go into recycling.

47:04

Yeah, I think they should go into recycling. Yeah, I think that they, you know they can.

47:09

Obviously, to take the metal off is easy, but to separate the cell from the glass, from the back sheet, that's a much harder process and it's an expensive process.

47:18

And you need good facilities. You need good facilities, yeah, and it needs to be.

47:22

I don't know how you get around the cost part of it.

47:28

People don't like paying to get rid of things or recycle things.

47:32

I think that's the that's the problem, and that's probably something that needs to change as well.

47:35

That it's not just about us. It's about you know our children, or our children's children, for you know the decades, you know decades to come that you know we need to protect the planet for that too.

47:46

I hear solar panels don't have any moving parts.

47:49

They're sitting up on the roof, just let them be there and that we find for 20 years.

47:54

Is that right, or do I need maintenance?

47:57

Well, if we left you for 20 years, I reckon you'd stink a bit.

48:00

We do need a bit of a wash every now and then.

48:04

So yeah, yeah, just that cleaning them, at least as a bare minimum, is important but also worth getting it checked.

48:14

You know things can get knocked.

48:16

I've got, you know, my own house is a possum that I've heard that gets upon the roof, and you know I need to get up and just keep an eye on those panels, make sure that it's not knocking any cables or things like that.

48:26

Is it a chewing? Yeah, I have seen that once before.

48:29

Yeah, I've only seen it once, fortunately, but yeah.

48:33

Was the possum still hanging on the cable when it got the high voltage?

48:36

It was.

48:37

The possum. Wasn't much left of the possum, but there was still a bit of possum there, yeah, so things like that.

48:44

Just you know, cleaning them is the bare essential. That's the absolute bare minimum.

48:47

But yeah also, you know we do it.

48:52

You know, as a company we do a full system, checking, clean where we clean the panels, but we also, you know, do a full check on it and make sure the production is all right.

49:01

What was that? Checking that the racking hasn't come loose.

49:04

Yeah, checking the racking, checking all the cabling underneath it, checking Clogs, check it, check all the plugs.

49:10

You know as much as we can get access to without having to rip all the power off.

49:16

So it depends on the systems. You know, some systems that have been installed you can't get access to any of these things.

49:22

An old system that's got some DC isolators on that we can see have got water in them, then we'd, you know, make the recommendation to swap those out.

49:31

Some systems, unfortunately, we go to and there's that bad and we have to lock it off and and so we can't do anything.

49:37

You know we can't leave the system running.

49:41

It's unsafe. Unsafe to leave it running. Yeah, so it doesn't happen very often, but it does happen occasionally, which is a shame, but it just it is what it is, and that's often those old systems that haven't been touched for five or 10 years.

49:56

No one's done anything to them, and you know if you let something and if you just leave it, it's, you know where it's.

50:03

A bit of preventative maintenance is probably going to help.

50:05

How often should people look at it?

50:07

Oh look if you talk to someone that's got a business based on cleaning solar panels, they probably tell you you know it's doing every sort of you know, six or 12 months, realistically, I think.

50:18

You know it's not a major part of our business and it's just a service thing more than anything.

50:23

But every sort of 18 to 24 months is fine in most cases.

50:28

You can, obviously, if you you know you're able to clean it from the ground or anything you know you can do yourself if you want to, just to be able to clean the panels, you know.

50:39

But we recommend getting a full check and doing it properly and making sure everything's all right.

50:45

But a lot of people, of course, do it themselves.

50:48

I don't know, with homeowners on ladders and all that when you're over 55, you just don't bounce the same way.

50:55

No, no, it's. It's not a good the only thing if you're going to try and get a really easy to access system that you could do from the ground, from a telescopic pole or something, that's all you could do.

51:05

But yeah, terms of getting on the roof.

51:08

That's what we're trained for and that's what.

51:10

That's what we do. Yeah ladders.

51:12

If you're not used to being on a ladder, it's a lot more dangerous, and if you're nervous on a ladder, it's really, really dangerous.

51:19

Because you're trying to lean over to brush things and wash it, and that's when you can really lose grip, etc.

51:25

So I mean, what's a good service called nowadays the cost range?

51:30

I think a 20 panel system with a full system checking clean with us is about 300 bucks.

51:37

I mean, that's the price of the flowers when you're in hospital, isn't it?

51:41

Yeah, that's it. It's you don't want to.

51:43

You don't want to fall off a ladder and break your leg or whatever, and end up off work or whatever you know it could be worse or fall off a roof.

51:52

Are you seeing people clean the panels with the kersh or hard pressure cleaners, etc.

51:57

Is that a good idea?

51:58

Absolutely not.

52:00

Oh, hang on, it gets all the grime off really well.

52:03

Yeah, it does. It will clean them really really well and it will also blow out every seal on the panel and fill the panels with water and void the warranty.

52:12

So it's yeah, I've seen people doing it and I've seen people advertising on, you know, facebook groups for panel cleaning with a picture of them blasting the panels with a pressure washer.

52:25

And I've called them out on it a few, not, you know, not in a nasty way, but just to let them know that you know they're exposing themselves to, to damaging the, damaging the panels, and they're going to have to.

52:38

You know, they've made a little bit of money and they're going to have to replace the system with thousands.

52:43

No, no, no, no, no, that's not to do it.

52:45

Just never come back.

52:46

Yeah, it'll just disappear so in the homeowner.

52:48

We'll have a system that fails after a few years with a lot of micro cracks, but they wouldn't know what.

52:53

What was the first?

52:55

How do you prove it? Yeah, the panels have got water in.

52:57

So now, definitely, if you're cleaning panels, just low pressure, soft, soft fibers, broom, yeah nothing, nothing too hard to get a good, solid battery outcome.

53:09

What are your golden rules?

53:12

Do a little bit of research. Don't just go in and listen to one quote, think you know it all and then sign off on it.

53:20

Get a couple of quotes. Do a bit of your own research.

53:23

Don't sign up to anything there and then get your prices, get your information, find out what products you're getting and then go and do your research and then start asking more questions from there.

53:33

Don't base it on price. The you know, as they say, the you know, the joy of a cheap price will very quickly be be outdone by the pain of a cheap failing system.

53:45

Just spend that time at the start to make sure you're making the right decision and our business, you know, we're not in everybody's price point.

53:56

But if you can stretch it, or even you know finance you know a bit of it to get to that, you're going to get a far better outcome because you're going to get a much better system that's going to last you without the problems.

54:06

So, just so, looking at those different alternatives as well.

54:10

And yeah, just just quality.

54:13

Don't don't just go for the cheapest thing that you're going to you're going to find, because the cheapest just it's going to, it's going to be a problem.

54:21

Now you have seen thousands of solar panels installed.

54:24

You've been in the industry for over a decade.

54:27

Out of all the advice of go for quality gear, make sure the install is done well, make sure they have good after sale service, do your research in the first place.

54:38

All of those things. What's the one key thing?

54:42

Out of all of those? That's the most important.

54:45

I think, installation, so who's actually doing the job?

54:49

In the early days, as we use subcontractors for a very short period and soon stopped it was there was a lot of problems that we found out about and then a lot of problems that we found out about later.

55:00

But, yeah, install is crucial.

55:03

I run a pretty tight ship with you.

55:06

Know how our installers do things because I've got to.

55:10

It's protecting our business and the way that it's installed is going to make a huge difference.

55:15

You know, if you've got a monkey on your roof running around slinging panels, they're going to be damaging everything.

55:20

They're going to be doing a bad job. They're going to forget things.

55:23

You need someone that's going to do the job properly and take time to do it right.

55:27

You've been in the industry now for a decade plus Yep, that's a long time in solar, and you've seen the boom and bust.

55:34

It's called the solar coaster. Where do you see the next four to five years going?

55:40

I think, huge electrification of the household.

55:44

So we're seeing it a lot now with batteries are coming in, but EVs are going to be a huge load that's going to be put onto the house and a lot of people.

55:54

They might not be considering an EV just now, but maybe their next vehicle if not their next vehicle, certainly the one after that is probably going to be an electric vehicle.

56:03

So that's a huge thing.

56:06

On top of that, we're then seeing a lot more smart home stuff coming in, where people are, you go back.

56:14

I don't know whenever like these Alexa's and Google homes and things came out.

56:19

That's just the start of it. That was maybe five, six, seven years ago, and there's a lot now that can be tied into those and you can turn your lights on, you can open the blinds, you can open the garage door, you can have someone coming around to do the plumbing and I can check my house what's going on.

56:37

Yeah, yeah, that's it.

56:38

You can let the plumber in that's coming around to fix the leak or whatever.

56:41

If you want to.

56:43

You can open the garage door and in they go. It's all changing and developing and pretty exciting, I think.

56:53

There's gases, I think, going to start to phase out and we'll get in more and more with electric there.

56:58

So, yeah, for us we're in a great position because when you've got a lot of electricity that's needed, well, we sell solar, we can sell more solar.

57:08

That's yeah, I think we're in a fortunate position that way.

57:12

But yeah, also, it's exciting too.

57:15

There's going to be a lot of things and I think in time we'll see it.

57:19

Where you know, at the moment we can turn on a hot water system to heat only when there's enough power to do it from the solar.

57:28

Or if you turn your air conditioner on for an hour, it'll turn the hot water off and wait until the air condition is finished.

57:34

You know there's those sort of smarts that are coming out, but I think that's going to just.

57:38

That's the start. It's going to just blow up. There'll be a lot that'll come from it, wow.

57:45

Now from a family point of view. You are a family company, yep, so your life works in the business.

57:50

Yes, you had children.

57:52

Not in the business. They're only 12 and 14.

57:54

But yeah, that's the plan that one day they'll be in the business.

57:58

Mate, that's the best age to get under the house into the tricky course.

58:03

Yeah, throw them in the tight roof and throw them through. But yeah, there are.

58:06

Yeah, I have to say that, but my 14 year old is bigger than my wife.

58:09

Now the 12 year old is getting closer.

58:12

But yeah, that's you know, and that's part of why we do what we do.

58:19

Is I want something that's you know.

58:21

If we I do hand the business down eventually, that I'm not just handing down something, that's just hanging in there problems yeah.

58:29

You want something that's you know something good.

58:32

You want to be proud. I want to be proud of it and you know it's.

58:36

Yeah, if they do decide to come into the business, you know, when they're older, then yeah, I'd love for that to happen.

58:43

But yeah, it's you know you want it to be a good business as well and you want it to be built on you know good ethics and good.

58:52

You know everything, everything about it.

58:54

I think you know everyone, everyone's happy, no one's, no one's getting screwed over.

58:58

Everyone's everyone enjoys where they work.

59:00

So that's good.

59:03

If I'm your accountant and a looking analysis, your biggest weak spot is possibly that you're too honest.

59:08

Yeah.

59:09

Yeah, we could make a lot more money by selling cheap solar systems, but then we'd have to close down a few years, because which is what happens so often, because you just have so many issues and we see it time and time and time and time again where people had solar installed, the installers disappeared because they had all these problems that a million dollars worth of recall.

59:31

So they folded the, you know, folded the business and disappeared or whatever.

59:36

So, yeah, we could make a lot more money by selling cheaper systems, but, yeah, for shorter time but it's a short, it's a.

59:43

It's a short term view, whereas my long term view is let's protect the business by selling quality.

59:48

Let's protect the customer by selling quality, which means that the installer can still be around, which is ourselves, and our name is built on that, and I think people are slowly starting to come around to.

1:00:01

You can't just whack a solar system on the roof.

1:00:04

That's cheap and you know, expect it to be good.

1:00:07

I've been involved in selling a million solar panels into the industry.

1:00:12

At one stage that was 5% of everything on the roof.

1:00:15

And I do tell you too, you buy cheap.

1:00:20

You will feel good for one, two years, but after that you, if you value your time, you will actually have paid more than if you bought.

1:00:30

Quality in the first place, Absolutely.

1:00:33

Yeah, yeah.

1:00:34

All right, well, look, I really thank you. I will give you a bit of paper to pack your two awards.

1:00:39

Thank you for touching the ball.

1:00:42

And really.

1:00:43

I think we got a good insight in your thinking into solar as a whole and into solar white as the company.

1:00:49

Yeah, thank you so much for being here.

1:00:51

Thank you Great, dan. Hope to have you again.

1:00:54

All right, yeah, next time.

1:00:57

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1:01:05

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1:01:10

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1:01:15

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