0:00

Hi guys, I've got a Dean Speck of Anto here today from Reposit.

0:03

Anybody in the solar industry for quite a while would have heard of the Reposit already, but they have kind of pivoted to some degree and Dean is here today to tell us all about it.

0:11

Welcome Dean. Hey, marcus, now before we start, normally we always have to do one little ritual.

0:17

Could you please touch my ball, your ball.

0:21

Okay, I'm going to touch the plasma ball.

0:23

Yeah, the plasma ball, Of course. What were you thinking?

0:25

Okay, do you judge me on this in any way?

0:27

Yes, because there's supposed to be some vibes coming out of it.

0:30

Okay, yeah, so that's that.

0:32

Now, here's our little Reposit box.

0:39

So this is really what you spent what five, six, eight years on how long.

0:44

Company's 10 years old. That's the fourth revision of the Reposit controller.

0:48

All right, so that one took us about two years to get right.

0:51

So did you wake up one morning in the shower and thought I'll have to have a Reposit?

0:58

The history of Reposit and where it came from is a story it comes down to, basically, I used to work in finance doing all sorts of finance-type things.

1:09

My father's an electrical engineer, always been interested in energy, always playing with energy stuff.

1:15

But you know my dad as a good log.

1:18

He said, listen, you need to get good marks and then you get a good job and then you have a good life.

1:22

And I got to about 20, a very good job, very good money.

1:26

And I kind of went is this it, dad? And he's like you've done well, well done.

1:29

Lock yourself up and bury yourself, basically, basically.

1:34

And I kind of went you know what? I don't think. I think I don't think.

1:37

That's all there is. So I started to try to climb my way into electricity.

1:42

I got really lucky with one of the acquisitions that was made by the West Bank Institutional Bank.

1:46

They bought Enron in Australia. I was part of the team that brought that business into WestPak.

1:52

I learned all about electricity trading there and about systems and how it works, decided I really liked it and then basically, from that moment on, every step that I've made in my career is about getting deeper and deeper into electricity trading more sophistication, be able to create more economic value and, increasingly, from 2011, a real commitment to doing something about climate change by doing smart things with electricity.

2:20

Wow, so now this is fourth generation.

2:22

Fourth, gen For some customers that would have never heard about Reposit.

2:26

So this is kind of like the new picture. So can you please explain the Reposit system now Mark 4?

2:31

.

2:31

Yeah, so Mark 4 now is centered around that controller and that controller has 4G on it, it's got the computer on it, it's got a bunch of electricity metering on it, very fast metering, accurate metering on it, and really all those things just tie into guaranteeing people no electricity bill for seven years.

2:47

And it does that by just making four decisions every second about what to do with the battery, what to do with the solar and do I go to the grid in or out, and it does that so reliably that we can guarantee that you can get no electricity bill for seven years and it's still profitable for us to do that.

3:04

But you have to, in the beginning, put a solar system, a battery, your Reposit controller on the person's house.

3:12

Do they have to pay for it?

3:14

Absolutely Do. They own it as soon as they pay for it.

3:16

So really what we've done is we've said, look, you guys want no electricity bill.

3:20

We understand that. Better than that, you want to guarantee, you want certainty that you're not going to get an electricity bill.

3:26

All sorts of uncertainty in the electricity system with rising prices and transition and electricity network buildouts, changes of government, etc.

3:33

People don't care. They want to know that they are protected from price rises and that they have got clean electricity in their home and they know what it's going to cost them.

3:42

So if I would just buy a solar and battery system, then I would still normally get a bill, because I do have the supply charge and at night I use it and sometimes the battery is not enough, etc.

3:54

So your difference is that that gap doesn't fall into my pocket anymore.

3:59

I just don't have to worry about the bill. Is that it?

4:01

That's part of it.

4:03

Absolutely. That is true. All of those things are true.

4:05

Daily charges, metering costs, all those kind of things are gone.

4:09

On top of that, any price rises.

4:11

You don't see because you're not paying an electricity bill Any changes in feed-in tariff, solar feed-in tariff.

4:17

You don't see Any changes in regulation where you require this kind of control device or that kind of control device or some other export limitation, solar taxes, all of that not your problem anymore, or reposits problem, we guarantee you know electricity bill.

4:34

We are just in a better position to manage all of this uncertainty than the average punter who's got their own life and kids and they're dealing with complexity of living.

4:42

All we do all day is work out how the electricity system works, what's the best way to interact within it, and then we teach the control of that.

4:51

Are you kind of like take my electricity that I generate if I'm not at home now, and let's say, if I'm in Sydney and you've got another reposite customer in Newcastle, does he?

5:01

And let's say it's raining there and he needs the electricity, do you kind of magically take my electricity and give it to the guy there?

5:10

Is that what you're doing?

5:12

Again, not magic, but yes, that is what we do.

5:15

So we run a collection, a fleet, a community of batteries and solar all together, and our control systems are able to understand what the state of that fleet is, how much solar is available, what's likely to do in the next 24 hours, how much is in the battery, what they're likely to do over the next 24 hours.

5:33

We're able to balance and share across the fleet and we have done that for years and years.

5:38

So, ever since reports started, we have more than 6000 homes under control, but we're so good at it now that we can guarantee you know electricity bill.

5:47

But you know, in parliament I hear them. You know, sometimes the wind doesn't blow and the sun doesn't shine and the renewables are not that good.

5:54

You seem to have kind of cracked that nut.

5:58

Yes, so that's really what I started.

6:00

That's what I really wanted to do ever since I entered into electricity.

6:04

I was incensed once I was having a chat with a Macquarie banker and I said listen, you know, instead of funding gas stations, why don't you fund solar?

6:11

And I was told, look, they don't offer an 8 to 12% internal rate of return.

6:15

And that's because, you know, the wind doesn't always blow and the sun doesn't always shine.

6:19

And I'm like, okay, so what if they did offer? an 8 to 12% internal rate of return.

6:23

No worries, we'd invest in them. So that was the conversation that sort of got me on this.

6:27

Again came out of finance and started to care a lot about climate.

6:31

And if Macquarie bankers are happy with 8 to 12% internal rate of return, I just need to do that.

6:38

So this is the little software and controller brain.

6:41

Now is this made in China, or what's the story?

6:43

So this is made in South Australia.

6:45

Right, and there's a reason for that.

6:48

So the repository controller talks to data centers in Australia using Australian comms networks.

6:54

It's all run by us in Canberra and it means that there is no possibility of foreign coercion in the operation of the repository fleet.

7:08

So if somebody wants to turn off the internet, you guys still working, is it?

7:11

Yeah, that controller is where the decisions get made.

7:14

So the all the control decisions you know for every second.

7:16

They're not happening in the data center somewhere, they happen on there.

7:19

Right, and so when they're designing, this.

7:22

I, my team, designed this Right. That's nice for you.

7:25

You could have claimed it, just me, absolutely not. No, I did not.

7:28

I'm not an electronics engineer, but this is basically a fourth generation.

7:32

So this is. There's literally thousands of man now are gone into this repository controller to get it to be as smart as it is to trade electricity all across the network.

7:41

Is that right?

7:42

Yeah, literally thousands of hours and, like I don't know, like hundreds of trillions I think of electricity measurements.

7:50

That's already taken place in these controllers across the whole fleet and then they come back to set a data center.

7:57

So I mean, you know, they say KFC got seven special spices.

8:01

So what's the special spies in this repository controller?

8:07

It's able to make predictions about a lot of different things and be very good about those predictions.

8:16

So, obviously, electricity price is a prediction.

8:18

How much solar is coming into a house is a prediction what the load is likely to be over the next five minutes, 10 minutes, all the way out to 24 hours.

8:25

But more than that, what's the battery going to do if I ask it to do something right now?

8:29

What's the solar going to do if I ask it to do something right now?

8:32

And batteries in particular are badly impacted by heat, particularly by cold state of charge.

8:40

Which wall are they on? What time of the day is it?

8:42

All sorts of different things. So to get reliable control, which is what you need to be able to do, what we do to guarantee electricity bills for seven years you need to make very, very good predictions, and that's why the eight years of data that we have is so important.

8:57

We're able to train lots and lots of models to be able to make very reliable predictions on tens of different factors that go into making a decision.

9:07

Fundamentally, that's what that does.

9:10

All right. So if I simplify that a little bit and I'm still getting it only here and there let's say I have a battery full again in Sydney and it's raining like hell in Newcastle.

9:22

Yeah. And the guy in Newcastle needs the heater on and he uses electricity.

9:26

You now say, hang on the Sydney guy from all the past behavior.

9:31

He's never home during the day. I can now suck five kilowatt hours out of his battery and send it into the grid and the guy in Newcastle can grab it because basically I know he needs it and I use the historical data and I can tell that that is the more likely scenario.

9:47

So I'm making those choices, that's right. Oh well, I'm happy I got it.

9:52

Now, I always look for the slightly smelly fish in these kind of too good to be true proposals.

9:58

And do you charge a real bomb right at the beginning for that security of seven years of no bill Meaning?

10:08

Are you up for 30 grand to just have a piece of mind, or what's the story there?

10:12

We try to price our systems to be slightly more expensive only slightly more expensive than solar and battery without the guarantee.

10:20

So, like in Victoria, we're selling no bill, no bill systems for anybody with less than sort of 20 kilowatt hours a day of consumption at 15,990 bucks, and in New South Wales it's 16,990 bucks.

10:32

And how big is the battery for that and how big is the solar?

10:34

system. It's sort of irrelevant on a no bill plan.

10:37

So the whole point is that we size it so that you are able to have a guarantee of no electricity bills for seven years, and so for that system we go okay, electricity consumption is something like 20 kilowatt hours.

10:49

Then that 15,990 or 16,990 system in New South Wales is sufficient.

10:54

Now, if you do care and really we don't think consumers do care that, they just want no electricity bills that is a 10.4 kilowatt hour battery with 6.1 kilowatts of solar.

11:04

That's not too bad. Most roofs will handle that.

11:06

Yeah, but would you sometimes find customers who kind of keen to go ahead, but they are on a little inner city terrace and you just can't fit the system and there's no space for the battery.

11:15

Do you have issues like that?

11:16

Yeah and like unfortunately, we can't do anything for those customers at the moment.

11:19

Later on, we'll be able to work out how to do no bill In fact, we're working on that now how to do it without solar on the roof, Because fundamentally again, consumers don't care about solar or batteries.

11:31

Most of them just want a guarantee of no electricity bill.

11:34

We're very good at manipulating electricity in time and across geography, and so that means that we don't need necessarily forever for there to be solar at the connection point.

11:46

We can do it in other ways.

11:47

Okay. But let's say you gave me some prices around the 15, 16,000 dollars a pay up front.

11:53

Then I have for seven years no electricity bill guaranteed.

11:56

There must be some kind of proviso, because suddenly I can't kind of create a hemp farm in the back of my shed and use three times more electricity.

12:06

So what are the kind of proviso and extra rules that you have to follow to get those deals?

12:12

There's really only one and that is and it's not unfamiliar to anybody on these sort of all you can eat plans, there is a fair use cap and the fair use cap is 120%, or whatever you're doing in your house just before you bought no bill.

12:27

So you go back, check out the last 12 months, that's the kilowatt hours, make it 10,000.

12:32

And then I can have up to 12,000 in the next seven years as my buffer each year, every year.

12:38

That's right, right, right. So you must have worked out what are the real saving If I'm a bloke who really uses the 120% every time right up to the end and then stop throttling my thing down to really get my freebie as much as possible.

12:51

You know the buffet meal plunk it on.

12:53

I do that with the deal. I got 120% for seven years.

12:56

What's my saving overall in the kind of range?

13:01

I know it depends on electricity prices, but you must have kind of worked something out.

13:05

It's like it's between 17 and $25,000.

13:07

You're better off, so the system will pay itself off, and you're 17 to 25 ahead.

13:12

Now that is taking into account what we consider to be price rises over the next two and three years in particular, and then a moderation after that.

13:21

But people are already getting letters from their retailer saying price rises on the first of January.

13:26

That's inevitable in the way that our electricity system is evolving at the moment.

13:31

There will be very heavy price rises. So you take those things into account and we have calculators that we provide during the sales process.

13:38

You can see everything, all the assumptions, all the numbers.

13:40

Yeah, without financing it, you're 17 to 25 ahead.

13:44

If you do finance it, you're somewhere between sort of 12 and 19 ahead, because financing typically costs about four and a half, five grand.

13:53

Right, so you do offer this whole program on finance too.

13:56

We offer, so we don't offer finance.

13:58

We hook up our customers with finance that we think would work best for them.

14:02

So in Victoria there's the $8,800 0% battery loan.

14:08

It's similar in the ACT nothing in New South Wales.

14:12

So we know where the best offers are and we steer our customers towards that.

14:17

Right. So you kind of have the experience, you know where the best finance is, and then you make recommendations, but it's still up to the customer.

14:26

It's still up to the customer. The customer can choose between any finance that they want to bring to the table.

14:30

Fundamentally, we don't do any finance.

14:33

We think that finance will evolve over the next two or three years, particularly in electrification.

14:37

There's quite a lot of interesting proposals.

14:40

I think the federal government is going to have to do something, so we just stay out of there for the moment.

14:45

Most people just retry it on the mortgage.

14:47

That is the ideal thing to do. You withdraw it on the mortgage is the ideal thing to do, and we're finding that increasingly people say listen, I want to refinance and while I refinance, I'd like to take out some extra money for one of these things.

14:58

That's the best way to do it.

14:59

Now, if I get a really big system and I have a really big house and you put a really big solar system in, a big battery are the savings bigger.

15:09

Way bigger. It actually works better for larger consumers.

15:13

Now we can't take your 160 kilowatt hour day customers, which they do come to us and we do have a look.

15:19

Typically there's usually not enough space to be able to do it.

15:23

We would do it if there was enough space to put the batteries in the solar and actually what I think is that as efficiencies increase and batteries get smaller, we will be able to do it.

15:31

But yeah, like there's some customers that are on $35,000, $40,000 better off.

15:37

Right, I was thinking for a second. You tell me $35,000 electricity bills.

15:41

Jesus Christ.

15:43

Oh, we have seen ones with $65,000 electricity bills and customer or factories and customers, households Jesus, that's a pile of very, very wealthy people.

15:52

We get a lot of very wealthy people.

15:56

It's a kind of product that a very wealthy person is interested in.

16:01

It takes away this thing. That's an annoyance in their life and typically very wealthy people are just trying to remove annoyances from their life.

16:08

That's where they've gotten to. So, this is for everybody, though, right.

16:10

You don't need to be super wealthy to have this particular annoyance go away.

16:14

So if you would say the usage starts at about 20 kilowatt hours, A little bit less 14,.

16:21

if you got somewhere between 14 up, it starts to make sense.

16:25

You know anything.

16:26

And where do you kind of stops about 50, 60?

16:29

Or no 85, 100. Okay, so for anybody using between 15 kilowatt hours and 80 kilowatt hours a day yeah.

16:36

If you want to get no more bill for seven years, look at the reposit offer.

16:41

Yeah, and save yourself some money.

16:43

Yeah.

16:44

You know how normally we get a feed-in tariff for the electricity that are export with a positive no bill system.

16:50

How does that work?

16:51

You don't get a feed-in tariff. You literally don't see a bill.

16:54

You don't get paid any money, nor do you pay any money Like.

16:59

Electricity comes down now to you, plugging things into the wall and just using electricity just normally and not worrying about it.

17:07

But let's say I'm with Energy Australia original AGL currently, and then I sign up to you guys and I pay my money.

17:14

Do you then come out and install?

17:16

Yes.

17:17

What happens to the electricity company that I was with?

17:21

We take responsibility for your electricity retail from you.

17:25

So there's a thing called the no bill switch After the system has been installed, and we do a thing called Reposit, data Verified, which is basically we check it over, make sure that it's working perfectly, and then we commission the system and at that moment one of our customer success team will get on the phone with you and your electricity retailer and will take control of your bill.

17:45

So I literally never get a bill again do.

17:47

I. Literally never get a bill again. But can't you just send me a bill that says zero?

17:52

So I actually know that I'm getting a bill. Because it kind of feels really eerie when you don't get an electricity bill.

17:57

You kind of feel a bit naked because that feels excellent, man.

18:00

No, no, no, you kind of go. I haven't had an electricity bill for a year.

18:04

You kind of wake up in the middle of the night going oh my God, what happened to my electricity bill?

18:09

Waking up in sweats in the middle of the night because you didn't get electricity bill.

18:11

That's Stockholm syndrome, right? It's just abusive.

18:14

You've become habituated to the abuse and you can't move on without it.

18:18

No, it's bill shock.

18:19

20 years of bill shock, so you don't need that.

18:23

I can tell you now not getting electricity bills is unexpectedly purifying and beautiful.

18:29

It's so nice to not have to worry about.

18:32

Oh shit, this is going to be expensive.

18:35

It's the anticipation. When I get them, it's always kind of like oh, how bad is this.

18:40

That's right, that's right, it's like the dog did the fart.

18:43

Is this going to be really like a terrible one, or is it kind of like are we going to leave the room?

18:47

It's that bad, and then you open it and then you go oh shit, it's as bad as I expected, but at least, thank God, it's not worse, yeah.

18:55

I mean that kind of psychological trauma Like there's so much in the world already you don't need it coming in your postbox, right.

19:02

So like it makes people's lives get materially better.

19:05

It's rainy and my kids like school uniform and socks are wet.

19:08

Put them in the dryer. It's the middle of winter.

19:10

It's cloudy outside. Put them in the dryer. Right, like having my mother over and she's always whinging about how hot it is.

19:17

Crank the air conditioner for a little while.

19:20

So you're actually adding comfort and less stress.

19:23

Yeah, I think like I mean, aside from the financials, which are nice, you get over it pretty fast, right, Like you're just not seeing the bill anymore and not having that worry and then being able to just live a nicer life.

19:36

Yeah, but hang on a second. Now. The mother-in-law likes it because you got it nice and cool.

19:41

She now comes over all the time and suddenly you go over the 120%.

19:46

What happens then?

19:47

Okay. So you know what's coming because it's on the app. So there's a meter on the app and it says you're 30% of the way through the month and you're 35% of the way through your fair use cap for the month.

19:59

So you get plenty of warning. If you go over, then you'll get a phone call or an email from one of the customers to access people at Reposit and they'll say hey, we noticed, you went over.

20:09

You know, is there a change in circumstances in your home?

20:12

Have you installed a hot tub?

20:14

No, mother-in-law is coming over.

20:16

Yeah, and most of the time, if it's the mother-in-law coming over and she's eventually going to get sick of it, then we'll just say okay, no worries, we want the customers to stay in Nobel.

20:24

So terms of conditions say there's a three strikes policy and that three strikes policy says that if you violate your fair use policy per month is it a month?

20:34

It's per quarter, all right.

20:36

Okay.

20:36

Yep. So if you violate it for three quarters, then we can say listen, you're taking the piss and we're going to take you off Nobel, we don't take your system from you, it's your system.

20:45

Still on your house. You still do the fill up from solar and dump out at night, just want to do all the clever stuff, and you don't get any guarantee.

20:52

It's just like a normal solar system, probably better installed than you would buy from a solar installer with a battery on it.

20:57

Right, that's the worst case.

20:59

It takes a lot to get there. Typically what happens is people go oh oh, I didn't know.

21:05

So, because you know apps are apps.

21:08

So you look at them. They look at it for two weeks and they stop looking right Because their lives are busy and, hey, their life just got better and like we don't want people like sweating over the fair use tracker, right.

21:18

But sometimes people go oh well, my air condition is very efficient, so I'm just going to run every room at 18 degrees and actually it's not that efficient.

21:28

Someone's told you it's really efficient and it's not. So our customer success team's got all your data and they'll talk you through it and they say what is it?

21:33

You're always turning on at like 10 o'clock in the morning and it stays on till no worries and we work it through.

21:38

Just use the Economode if you're going to do that. Simple suggestions, because we genuinely want people to stay connected on Nobel.

21:46

We can't do the magic, as you put it, that we do if a customer is not on Nobel Right.

21:52

It's just too complex, too confusing for people.

21:55

So we have very, very strong incentive to have people remain on Nobel, and where people are doing the right thing, we'll work with them.

22:02

So let's say I've had the kids. They were 10 years old I bought the system.

22:07

Now they're moving into teenage years three years later.

22:10

More showers, more video games, whatever else, and the electricity goes up.

22:15

Then also I bought an EV. Now I'm charged that from home.

22:18

So now it's very hard for me to stay within that 120.

22:22

In some way I should have predicted so when I have to buy the system in the first place, I should really look over the horizon into the future to kind of work out what is the right size.

22:31

But let's say I feel it's very difficult for me to stay there.

22:35

What are you offering me to kind of still stay in the Nobel system?

22:38

Do I increase the battery in the solar?

22:41

We've designed your system so that it's easy to add new ones on.

22:44

Like part of what the repository controller can do is tie lots of components together.

22:48

It's always done that. So we make it easy so that you can just get a larger system.

22:54

A bit more solar, a bit more battery. Whatever it takes goes into the controller and then your fair use cap goes up and problem goes away, and then we reset your fair use.

23:03

But then I have to pay a little bit for that extra installation.

23:06

Yeah, you pay a little bit for whatever the solar cost or whatever the battery cost, etc.

23:09

Much, much less, however, because all the wiring's in the controller's already in, everything's done and we can very accurately size that system because we've got the data and we know how much you are over.

23:22

Now, in your calculations for you saying you can save $15,000, $17,000, even $20,000, compared to a normal scenario over the seven years going with the repository Nobel system, you're making something that electricity is increasing, I suppose.

23:38

How do you know that?

23:40

Yeah, all right. So I've been in the electricity market for a very, very long time and here's what I see Over since 2008,.

23:48

There's been price increases pretty much every year.

23:51

There's been two or three years where it's gone down slightly, but always with a big rebound afterwards.

23:56

There's a key reason for that, and it's because Australia's electricity infrastructure was built after the Second World War and we didn't put a lot of investment into it for years and years, and years and years, and we had the lowest price of electricity across all nations due to cheap coal and lots of investment after the Second World War 11 cents, I remember.

24:17

Yeah, super cheap, right, but that infrastructure was fine until our population started to grow relatively rapidly and our assets started to age.

24:27

And in about 2008, 2009, we hit this point where assets started to get old and our population started to outgrow the infrastructure.

24:35

So now we had to play a bit of catch-up. Then what happened is we put in the carbon pollution reduction scheme Remember the carbon tax?

24:42

That was the right way to create an orderly exit of coal-fired generators and eventually, gas-fired generators.

24:53

What that did is it told all the owners of the coal-fired power stations this is how much you're going to make if you make a particular investment in upgrading the turbine or fixing the boiler or putting a new terminal station, on any of those kind of things.

25:06

When Tony Abbott removed the carbon pollution reduction scheme, what he actually did was set an infinite price on carbon.

25:16

All the people in making investments now had no idea what the impact of the carbon pollution was going to be on the economics of their power station.

25:25

They knew that climate change was going to be a thing and governments were going to have to do something about it.

25:29

And we had a price. What was it? $0.60 or $0.60 or whatever it was.

25:33

And now that price is gone. So they're all like uncertainty.

25:36

Uncertainty, we hate uncertainty. It's the death of investment.

25:39

So for about 10 years no one spent any money on their coal-fired power stations, on their boilers, on their turbines or the terminal stations.

25:48

And they started to break. And you saw Yulon start to break and Liddell start to break.

25:52

And so now, instead of an orderly exit of coal and centralized transmission, what we're seeing now is a disorderly exit due to lack of investment, and that is going to cause costs.

26:08

But isn't it also that the large solar farms and wind farms are usually in more remote areas and we have to build a whole new infrastructure now to bring them into the fold?

26:17

So there's additional expenditure even with the existing infrastructure that has to be upgraded, but also new infrastructure to be added.

26:24

Yeah, so like I'll talk about those two parts to that.

26:27

One is do we have to? And the second one what does it cost?

26:29

And yeah, transmission lines are expensive and they take a long time to build and there's a lot of dependency.

26:36

A lot of things have to go right Landowners have to be happy, environmental agency have, states have to be happy, lots of things have to and it's all expensive, right.

26:44

So, especially if they go underground, which some people want, that's right Like undergrounding is extremely expensive.

26:50

right Cables under the ocean extremely expensive.

26:53

Ultimately, consumers always pay for electricity stuff Because electricity networks, electricity generators are there to service consumers and make a profit and make a profit, right?

27:04

So consumers pay all of that.

27:07

At the end of the day, if you're going to turn over and change trillions of dollars of assets, consumers are going to pay for that four trillions of dollars of assets plus the margins.

27:16

I mean I forgot even EVs. Evs will add, put extra demand on the grid, so that's going to add more cost to the grid too, is it?

27:24

Not just that Solar going into the grid is making the grid cost more.

27:28

The grid was not designed in particular, the protection mechanisms of the grid were not designed for power going backwards.

27:35

The other way.

27:36

Yeah, so all the protection systems need to be changed, like they're very dumb protection.

27:39

They're very reliable, they're electromechanical, they rely on magnetic fields, but when you reverse the flow, the magnetic field goes the other way and the protection stops working, like that's.

27:50

You know, fundamentally, these things need to be safe first, so that's why no costs are going to keep on going up.

27:55

We're changing too much.

27:57

Now there is a question as to do we need the costs to go up as much as they're likely to go up if we just redo all the transmission networks and build a whole bunch of centralized batteries, et cetera, et cetera.

28:10

And I, my, my, my proposal was no, we should not do that.

28:14

That just like. I mean they should be able to do stuff with smarts.

28:18

On rooftops, using connection points on distribution networks bring the generation close to the demand.

28:24

Like it made sense to put coal-fired generators out in the country, because that's what the coal mines were and nobody wants a coal-fired generator in their backyard.

28:32

But no one cares about solar on the roof. It's perfectly fine.

28:35

So you're saying, instead of going and building huge solar farms out in Whoop Whoop and then pay for the extra transmission lines, you actually should make every roof a full solar roof and that capacity then can be utilized even past the existing homeowner into their neighborhoods and in their communities.

28:54

And if you look at all the roofs we have, there's still a lot of capacity available.

28:59

Absolutely, and I think solar is because it will go beyond roofs, it'll be embedded in glass, it'll be put on roads.

29:05

We should put it over all of our irrigation canals, like, fundamentally, this old paradigm of big transmission lines to large industrial machinery out in the countryside.

29:14

That is an old way of thinking based upon pollution and coal mines, and that's not how electricity works now.

29:24

And so all those different solar systems with something like a controller would actually work.

29:30

Absolutely, absolutely. And it means that you would not.

29:33

You would still need to build some transmission absolutely and rejuvenate the transmission that's there.

29:38

But we wouldn't have to build so much.

29:40

And, look, I actually think that's impossible for us to build all the transmission that's required because there's just, I mean, a lot of landholders don't want it and like they can hold it up forever.

29:50

We don't have forever. We've got 15 years.

29:52

Now I asked you a very simple question, which was will electricity go up?

29:56

Yeah, so if I'm now at 35, 40 cents per kilowatt hour, where do you expect it to be?

30:03

Let's say, in five, six years, 70, 80.

30:05

So people would then expect sometimes with a big family, up to $2,000 electricity bill.

30:11

Yeah, yeah, absolutely Like I've got it doesn't take much.

30:14

So in the calculator that we provide during the, during the customer journey, we take your consumption and we take what you're paying for electricity now and we say, look, we think there's going to be about a 20% price rise in the next, in the next period, because we think that's going to happen.

30:29

Then we think there'll be another 11 to 15%, then there'll be seven, and then it'll be five, and then it'll be inflation 333.

30:36

That's what we think is going to happen.

30:38

All right, fair enough, an Australia gambler.

30:40

But what about if none of these is happening?

30:42

You just telling me that, because you want to flog your system and there's no increase in electricity price, do I still make money on your system?

30:52

If there's no increase on electricity price. Depending on where you are, you may or you may not.

30:57

It's not as much, it's sort of in the four or $5,000 range.

31:00

So you're still better off. But it's not a massive slam dunk sort of 15 grand kind of thing, but like it's completely impossible that there will not be electricity price rises.

31:09

Well, hang on. But so you're kind of like an insurance policy Very much.

31:14

That's how we think about ourselves. Inside deposit it's about certainty and it's about selling.

31:21

I guess electricity insurance it's a weird way to think about it and it's a weird product with lots of.

31:28

I don't know if everyone gets it, but you're right, it is.

31:31

It's an insurance policy and we think that over the next period of time the value of that insurance is going to be more than maybe ever before.

31:40

Right.

31:41

Right, you come in. Your sales people come in.

31:43

Promise me no bill for seven years. Sounds very sexy, but then I had two solar sales guys with a battery, and they were really nice guys too.

31:52

So why wouldn't I just buy a solar and a battery system?

31:56

The main difference between sort of no bill and solar and a battery system is the certainty.

32:00

If you bought solar and a battery system, what you're going to end up with is a lower bill, absolutely how much lower, you don't know.

32:07

Is it a good battery? Does it? Is it going to work?

32:10

How big is it? Is it big enough for me? There's a controller.

32:12

Is it aware of, like, doing things at the right time?

32:15

Now you're what you've and you're going to end up with electricity bill and you're going to have feed-in tariff effects and price rise effects and all sorts of different things, right?

32:22

So what you've actually bought yourself, yes, is maybe a lower bill, probably a lower bill, but how much and a lot more uncertainty.

32:29

Now you have to pay attention. Is my solar working?

32:32

Is my battery working? If it's not working, if it's not working, what do I do about it?

32:35

Who do I call? Like complexity, uncertainty, like it's a bad product experience.

32:40

It's not good. You buy no bill. You're guaranteed no electricity bill If your system is working or it's not working.

32:45

Obviously it's in our interest to give you a good one and to install it nicely, but you're guaranteed no electricity bill.

32:52

You bought yourself no electricity bill and 100% certainty for seven years, and that's, that's the fundamental difference.

32:59

Okay, I'm going to give you a curly one, because it just happened to me.

33:02

I have a solar system, two pigeons decide to fall in love under my panels and now this shit goes into my rainwater tank and it smells like acid.

33:11

Okay, is that my problem?

33:14

or your problem. Basically, what we'll do is we'll talk to you and we'll say listen, hey, we've noticed there's been a decrease in your solar production.

33:20

It seems to be a decrease. That is not about shading, so we see trees.

33:24

Yeah, it's shitting right.

33:26

So then we go, okay, what is this thing? And then we might send somebody out to go and have a look and they'll say, oh look, there's a whole family of pigeons under the solar panel.

33:32

That's right, Right. And we'll go, okay, no worries, let's go and get that sorted out.

33:35

Most of the time we'll just sort that out.

33:37

Well then, what do you really say? By going with a repository, I don't have to become a solar expert.

33:43

Yeah, have to read 22 guides about how batteries work.

33:46

Yeah. Have to fight my pigeons, yeah, and I just get on with my life.

33:53

Yeah, Like electricity is our thing, not your thing.

33:55

Right, Like you've got your thing, whatever it might be.

33:58

It might be V8 supercars, it might be a countenancy, it might be I don't know childcare Our thing is electricity.

34:04

We love it. Like we get up every day excited to do things about electricity.

34:08

Maybe that makes us slightly mad, but it's it's.

34:10

We genuinely enjoy it. My team loves this shit.

34:13

Now your system. You said 15, 16, 17,.

34:17

That's where they start off as initial cost thousands.

34:20

But they're great. Solar systems for two and a half thousand dollars, Are they great?

34:24

I've been told they called Bill Buster and the, and some cricketers promote them Sure.

34:31

What's your experience with those systems?

34:33

Look, I'll give you the our policy on doing retrofitting on existing solar systems.

34:40

So a lot of people come to us and say I've already got a solar system and I would like you to put all the controller on the batteries on and do no bill.

34:47

Typically we say no. And we say no because we have enough data over eight years to see what the variance in quality is for different types of solar systems and what we see is the cheaper solar systems typically stop working very early, either altogether, or their degradation is very, very strong and they basically are useless just taking up space on the roof.

35:11

And we have, you know, we do keep an eye on on the CC and the state inspectorates and basically who they're pinging for what kind of quality issues.

35:22

So we will retrofit no bill on existing solar, but only for a very, very small number of systems installed by particular installers.

35:36

And so and and we know those installers well, we've seen like hundreds of their installs and they're always great, and so we have confidence to be able to retrofit it.

35:46

There it's, it's. It's very, very small.

35:48

It's making one or 2% of the market. So typically what we do is we say look, yes, you bought your solar for $2,500.

35:54

We're gonna, we're gonna take it off and we're gonna recycle those panels and we're gonna put a new one on, and that's how you're gonna get no bill.

36:02

And now, if you're happy to do that, typically customers who spent $2,500 or solar anyway, basically up to sort of $5,000 on solar anywhere longer than sort of four or five years ago everyone's happy to rip them off the roof and put new ones on and that's what we do, but is your experience in the first place with the data you see, done by CheapShit?

36:21

Yeah, the data says don't buy CheapShit. I mean it's not groundbreaking.

36:24

Like you know, you get what you pay for. Fundamentally, that's a lesson that the world teaches us over and over again.

36:30

There's a reason why they're 2,500 bucks.

36:33

So what gear do you use? Is I mean, if I'm a bit of a tech nerd and I want to know which battery and what, the discharge rate and all of this, are you going to get me all involved and look over your shoulder, or are you telling me to piss off?

36:45

I'm not going to tell you to piss off. I'm going to say, look, if you're an enthusiast and like batteries and solar, right, then by all means go on by from somebody who's willing to cater for your enthusiasm here, right, like.

36:57

But it's very much like going to your local mechanic and saying, hey, build me a race car and I'm going to pick these wheels and this bonnet and whatever.

37:04

So most people just want the Camry and they'll go and buy it from Toyota, right.

37:10

So yeah, it's like we're not. We're not into the enthusiast market.

37:13

It's that's. That's some.

37:15

There's lots of people that'll do that. It's not us. So you're basically saying leave the battery, leave the panels, leave all that to us.

37:20

Yeah, you just worry about the fact that you don't get a bill.

37:23

Yeah, guaranteed no bill seven years, Yep.

37:26

Okay, Now obviously, if you give me a seven year no bill contract, I have to sign a contract.

37:35

Yes, so the seven year commitment is on our side.

37:38

Only Like, you can leave whenever you want.

37:40

You can leave on the first day, you can leave after the first year.

37:43

No one does, but because I already paid for the system?

37:46

Yeah, and you like having no electricity? Yeah, I mean, if I leave, that means I don't have the guarantee anymore, so that makes no sense.

37:52

Yeah. But, it's important because some people think that the seven year commitment is they're making a seven year commitment as well, and they're not.

37:59

We're the only ones. Repository is the only one making a seven year commitment.

38:02

There's no exit fees. You don't lose your system.

38:04

There's no balloon payment.

38:07

You can leave whenever you want Mate. I love that.

38:09

I didn't get an electricity bill. I just want more of that.

38:12

Seven years are over. What do I do now? All right.

38:14

There's two options. The first one is that we refresh your batteries and we put you on another no bill contract.

38:19

That's what we think most people will do. We'll do.

38:22

Seven years away, Our projection is batteries will be basically twice to three times as good.

38:28

And cheaper.

38:29

Absolutely so. When I say as good, I mean like kilowatt hours per dollar.

38:32

Right yeah, there are lots and lots of forces for that.

38:36

I don't think there'll be a catastrophically amazing price reductions in the next sort of year or the year after or the year after, but I think you know you've got this kind of just gradually little bit 10% compounding over seven years, you get to double.

38:50

Okay, so you're basically saying, after seven years, leave the panels, leave your deposit controller, but change the battery, so we pay to have the batteries refreshed.

39:00

I don't know what that will cost, but you know you can do the maths less.

39:03

Or you can just say look, yes, the no bill thing was good, but I'd like to have my bills back now and, just you know, run my system out for until it, until it dies.

39:14

You've got to got a good system. It's nice and reliable and it's been probably well maintained.

39:17

In fact it's definitely been well maintained for at least seven years.

39:20

So yeah, you just run it out, It'll fill and spill.

39:24

I mean you tend to get still at least maybe 10 years out of the batteries for the next two or three years, you'd be still rounding away, but then after that the battery's possibly depleted to about 60% capacity and you kind of get a bit sick of it.

39:37

Yeah, yeah, that's right and, like you know, in the market there'll be much better technology.

39:40

That space on your wall is being taken up by stuff that's old right.

39:44

It's not that expensive to replace it. We think everyone's going to replace it.

39:47

I look, I actually think everyone's going to replace their solar panels as well.

39:50

And are they going to recycle them, or is it all gone in the tip?

39:53

No, it can't go in the tip. So Absolutely, the batteries will be recycled.

39:56

There's just too much good stuff in them.

39:59

All right, particularly the copper and the aluminium, nickel, like they'll be definitely recycled, and solar panels likewise.

40:05

That polysilica is, like you know, that's gold dust.

40:08

So you know, but the aluminium on the glass as well.

40:10

And the aluminium in the glass as well. Right Like, these things are eminently recyclable, and I think the commitment the industry needs to make is that we are going to recycle all this stuff.

40:20

It's not like does it go in the tip or is it going to be recycled?

40:22

It's too valuable for the future.

40:24

I mean even the CR2 embedded in it. To get it as far as where it is now, it'd be totally crazy.

40:30

Nothing. The government's got to put more controls on that.

40:32

Yeah, look at, and, like refined metals and glass, are a form of Long-term energy storage, mm-hmm.

40:38

So you know makes sense. Yeah, all right, now you've got yourselves person.

40:42

That explains it all to me. I like the idea of seven years no bills.

40:46

Do I mean have to pay a deposit or had us all that process?

40:50

Yeah, we asked for 10% deposit. We do that for two reasons.

40:53

You need some signatures on some paperwork on connection approvals.

40:56

If you're getting finance, we want you to be engaged in the installation process.

41:00

You need to have some spare tiles when we do the solar install, like we want to be a tiles.

41:05

Is this spare tiles? I thought I heard tolls and I'm thinking no, no, no spare tiles, right, right, you just just.

41:11

We've done a lot of these installs. We know how to make it a good experience.

41:14

There's a bit of prep that happens up up front, and we want you to be engaged.

41:17

We'll get the, we get the install done nice and quick, but we need you to be engaged and so if we've got 10% of your math, of your cash, you're gonna be more engaged than there's none.

41:27

Yeah, got it.

41:28

That's the second one Finance companies look at whether or not you are able to pay 10% and they take that into account when talking about finance.

41:36

It's much more likely to get the finance if you can offer a 10% deposit.

41:39

Why did you choose 70 years? It's quite deliberate.

41:42

So lots of different reasons. The first one is based upon the improvement curve on batteries.

41:47

So we wanted the batteries to be much, much better in in the at the end of the Nobel period.

41:51

We started at five years actually and then we kind of went it's not conservative enough, let's make it seven, so the batches be much better.

41:59

Next one is we think most of the trauma in power, in terms of power price rises, will happen in the next seven years.

42:05

So that's when a lot of the changes will happen and the cost effects of trauma you mean really high electricity.

42:11

Be I mean explosive price, price rises, but I mean, they're already gone up, so much Can't, you can't go any worse.

42:17

You won't say nothing yet. Oh, come on, well, like.

42:21

You know, I think you're scaremongering me. Maybe I mean we're looking at the wholesale market, so am I allowed to tell you the date that we're recording this?

42:28

It's like yeah whatever.

42:30

What is it? Yeah, we're in December 23.

42:33

Yeah, so out. My trading team gave me a whole bunch of alerts last night About the, the electricity market starting to get a bit weird.

42:41

Last night, the evening of the fifth now, no one saw that coming but it's because the heat waves coming.

42:47

The heat wave started and so what happened was they had the Sun came out in the afternoon, no one had the air conditioners running the here.

42:54

The houses got hot from the Western Sun. Everyone turns the air conditioner on.

42:57

The electricity prices start going weird. Now that is five, six years ago that would not have happened.

43:03

But now we've got three days of heat coming right heavy heat and already the electricity market is signaling high prices, all sorts of crazy uncertainty etc.

43:12

That creates headaches for electricity retailers.

43:18

Because they're losing big money, money and the need to recoup it right.

43:21

Like I said before, consumers end up paying for everything plus margin.

43:25

So this uncertainty means the finance people electricity traders are finance people that they have to do something about that.

43:32

So tell me something. I mean I've heard that there were times where everybody's turning the electricity on because our electricity market, for whatever reason, is a bit like an auction system.

43:42

Yeah, that's right, and so if I got a little gas fired power station and I might sit on the sideline and wait till the prices are really nice and then I turn it on and throw it into it.

43:51

Yeah, and let's say the kilowatt hours are sold per 35 cents to 40 cents on average.

43:58

Okay, okay, how much in that really high peak period when suddenly there's not enough capacity and they're bidding themselves up and up and up to try to get that electricity over?

44:09

How much do some of the energy retails have to pay for that kilowatt hour that they sell for 40 cents?

44:15

$17 and there's a proposal as a rule change being proposed at the moment to bring that to $22.

44:21

So did the government put a lid on that or no?

44:24

no, there is a lid. Yes, there's called it's called the market price cap, right, and then at the moment that's 16,800, I think.

44:31

But the proposal is to bring it up to 22 and a bit.

44:34

Right, and the reason is because that's the design of the electricity market.

44:38

The reason those high prices are there is not to gouge people, it's to provide a strong investment signal for those people who have money to use that money to build a generator.

44:48

That's, that's the why the prices go up.

44:51

So, in this period of uncertainty where no one is sure, all the investors are like gorgeous, I don't know, just I'm gonna have to, it's gonna have to be pretty, pretty nice for me to build a generator into this.

45:02

They have to lift that top price from 16 to 22, and so then investors are like, yeah, okay, I could make some money here, and they put their money and they build Batteries or transmission lines or whatever.

45:14

It might be. All right, that is how I know.

45:17

Prices are gonna go up. On top of that, all the electricity networks are going right now to a thing called their price determination or their price reset.

45:25

So every five years they say here's all the things we're gonna have to do for the next five years and we're gonna have to increase or change prices by this amount and this amount and this amount and this amount.

45:33

That's happening right now in New South Wales and Victoria.

45:36

The electricity networks are fundamentally saying the networks are gonna become unsafe unless we invest in them.

45:42

The networks are gonna you're gonna blackouts, we're gonna blackouts unless we invest politically, that's gonna be.

45:47

Yeah, that's right.

45:48

That's right. So this is so. The politicians are kind of rock on a hard place here.

45:52

Right, the networks are saying everything is changing, evs are coming lots of solar in.

45:57

It's this changing of trillions of dollars thing again.

46:00

So ultimately consumers have to pay for that, and they pay for it with their electricity bills can ask a stupid question.

46:06

If Tony Abbott wouldn't have kind of messed out for the political reasons and stopped the whole progress of transitioning and actually putting a cost on carbon, yeah, would we be in a better place.

46:16

Yeah, I'm a bit of a bastard.

46:19

When Tony Abbott removed the CPRS, I knew at that moment that renewables were gonna detonate in in Australia.

46:28

Tony. Abbott with that policy decision Paralyzed every fossil generator and then the only kind of generation that could come in there was something without a carbon impact, and that was when a bunch of the wind got built.

46:42

So you're actually saying that Tony Abbott, by stopping the carbon tax, actually made it very difficult for people generating carbon to actually know how risky it was, yes, to generate that, yes, and so indirectly he actually boosted renewables in a big way.

46:57

Did you know that?

46:58

I don't know if you knew that Ironic.

47:00

I mean, if you're an investor, you don't mind if you know markets are gonna go down.

47:05

And you don't mind if you know markets are gonna go up. But what you do mind is when you don't know what's gonna happen, and then you don't you don't invest massive discount rates.

47:14

You don't invest, and if you are gonna invest like, it has to be in something that avoids the discounting or Just gives you massive, massive returns to overcome the discounting.

47:23

But most normal ordinary Australians.

47:26

To them, that would just all be such googly-goop.

47:29

They just go. I don't get this. I just want my electricity.

47:32

Yes.

47:33

To use your term. I don't want to have to pay a bill.

47:36

Yeah, it's. Electricity is just a thing that people need in their lives and yeah.

47:43

Do you see if the batteries get better and stuff like that that maybe down the track, you increase it to eight or even ten years.

47:49

Yeah, I think so. So we've already increased from five to seven, and Part of that was because we were not conservative enough on how fast we think thought batteries were going to to improve.

47:59

I think the other thing that will happen is that the value of what we do will go up as our fleet gets bigger.

48:04

Hmm so it's nice to be able to provide 11 megawatts to Rert, but it's a lot more valuable to provide 110 megawatts to Rert.

48:11

What you're really saying is here being nerd talk.

48:14

The more electricity you have in the batteries and in the solar systems that you can throw at the electricity retailer market at any given time when it is needed, the higher the value Altogether.

48:27

So you're kind of creating one and one equals three, yeah and so, and you're willing those benefits down the track to reinvest into the benefits to the end customer.

48:37

Yeah. So as you grow and you're becoming a bigger player in the electricity market and therefore you can harvest more benefits, you can throw some of those back at the end customer.

48:46

Yeah, so basically it's it's. It's a flywheel that spins faster and faster as you end up with more people in the system.

48:51

Just don't put your finger in. I don't know.

48:54

I feel like I've got my finger in it right now.

48:55

Can I order right at the beginning a cap of 125 percent instead of just 120?

49:01

Okay. So what people some people do is the equivalent of that.

49:04

They say, okay, I don't want to incrementally expand my system.

49:08

I know that I'm on a four-year journey to electrify my home and my life.

49:11

So they, when they talk to, when they talk to the site designers, they ask you, are you thinking about getting an EV, one or two?

49:17

Do you have ducted gas? Like, what are you?

49:21

What are you gonna do? And people say I want to replace my hot water system.

49:23

It's about 10 years old, it's about to go. Yes, I am gonna buy an EV.

49:27

So then what you do is we calculate your baseline number.

49:30

Your baseline number, without any of those additions, is just what you used on your build, right?

49:36

That's your baseline. What we say is let's make your baseline a bit bigger right.

49:40

And we know we can do that scientifically. We know what the coefficient of work is on a heat pump and so we can say, okay, this many joules of gas is about this many kilowatt hours with the coefficient of work.

49:48

We've got lots of data on the fleet on what cars use.

49:52

You tell me what kind of car. I can tell you what they use basically in different areas mean electric car.

49:59

Like all that kind of stuff we know and we can be pretty scientific about.

50:02

Okay, yeah, you know, need an extra eight kilowatt hours for an MG and another 12 kilowatt hours from model three and Got it kind of stuff.

50:08

Okay, now when I get the stuff installed, what's the timeframe for the install?

50:13

We try to get it done in four weeks, right?

50:16

So from the time I sign and give you the deposit, yeah, to the time that it's installed, and then I'm in the no-build territory four weeks done.

50:24

You should be in the kind of bill-free Hall of Fame.

50:28

We are. So there was a report done by consumers international.

50:32

They surveyed 113.

50:34

They called it one-stop shops globally and repositories by far the best of those one-stop shops.

50:40

We have the longest no-build guarantee.

50:42

There's only one other no-build guarantee is octopus in the UK, but it requires a brand new home, fully electrified, everything.

50:51

Blah, blah, blah, lots of different stuff. I think that that over time, everyone, all electricity, is gonna have to be like this.

51:01

I People hogging that little solar system, owning it, going up there and weaner in it and washing it and making it a whole religion.

51:09

Yeah, I just like, I think I think that the enthusiasts are like that.

51:12

Like it's the same. My son builds, builds gaming PCs.

51:15

He buys this CPU and that motherboard and this graphics card.

51:18

I could work out that your son would be a geek yeah.

51:21

Yeah, yeah, there's no surprises there.

51:24

Right, and like it's it, he loves it, but it's a world of pain for him all.

51:28

The graphics card doesn't work with the motherboard.

51:30

I put it in the wrong PCI slot or whatever. It is blah, blah, blah right.

51:34

And then you fix it for and I have help have it fix it.

51:36

But like my lap, my computer, I've got, I've got a think pad.

51:39

I bought the best one right and it just works day in, day out and I get my job done right.

51:45

It's the right tool for the job.

51:47

Okay, I decided to sell my home at year three.

51:51

Yeah, do I now Tell the new person might with that house?

51:57

No electricity bill for the next four years.

52:00

I haven't yet to seen it in a real estate ad.

52:02

You know we're installed with Jesus Christ, it would be a good one.

52:05

I mean I would love to see it. I mean absolutely.

52:07

This house comes with a spa, a pool and no electricity bill for the next four years.

52:12

Yeah, so I would love to see it and has yet to happen across you know, however many thousand systems right, but we, there is.

52:22

There was one I'm thinking of. It only happened, like last week.

52:24

New, new owners moved in.

52:26

They were their no bill system resumed at the sort of like it paused while there was no one in it, then it started again.

52:34

They use their house differently and so they ended up blowing their fair use cap.

52:38

Now it does happen, right, some people were like the air conditioner on more some good yeah so what we did with them is we gave them a slightly larger system and and their system gets now reset to seven years and they're new fair use.

52:50

Cap it off. They go, like I said, like we want we want as many fair use Sorry, as many no bill systems as possible.

52:57

Like it's much better for us to do all the stuff that we do if the customer is a noble customer.

53:05

Okay, okay, now you sound pretty smart to me, but how long have you actually been in business?

53:11

I suppose it's 10 years old my 11 years old, I think it was it was founded, and June 2012, me and a guy called Lachlan black hole, both of which still deeply embedded in the industry.

53:22

Yeah, so it's 11, 11 years.

53:26

So you do actually have a lot of experience. So how many customers you got now 6000 ish right and where you expect to be, let's say, in four, five years in terms of customers?

53:33

What's your goal?

53:34

That's hard to know. That's a good question. I don't know what the answer is.

53:38

Um well, you got to have a goal, to know where you're going.

53:40

Yes, I mean the way you're talking.

53:42

You should be at 60,000 yes, there there are certain.

53:46

There's some scaling issues in in residential electrification that are something that we should probably talk about.

53:54

It's not necessarily just about deposit, but like they just are not enough.

53:58

Sparkies and the ones that do exist are very, very varied in quality and we're gonna have a massive influx of electric car charging.

54:05

I think everyone's is gonna do the charging at home. That's gonna usually in my it means running a new circuit and install installation of the charger.

54:12

I think everyone's gonna have solar and batteries and we don't have the sparkies.

54:16

But so you're saying that if you're an solar installer, you'll be busy for the next few years, is it, I think, if you're?

54:21

if you're a solar installer or a sparky that's good at Sort of like clean energy tech, you're gonna be very busy the next few years, but critically you have to be good, right, you have to give a shit.

54:32

And like that's not everybody, it's not even a lot of people like it's.

54:35

Like there is a. There is a.

54:38

There is a hole in the market in quality install and quality design, and it's never been more important than is now.

54:45

So when you ask me this question, where do I expect to be in the next five years or whatever three years?

54:50

Like I would like to be installing, you know, sort of like two and a half 3,000 systems a year, but I'm not sure if I can get the labor I got it.

55:01

What happens if you go out of business?

55:03

If we go to business, which is pretty unlikely at this point, but okay, the controller would just go dead and the batteries would all revert to their usual solar and battery systems would revert to the usual fill and spill.

55:15

You end up with a well installed, reliable solar and battery system and you get your bill back, right.

55:24

So I hope you survive for many, many, many decades.

55:28

I mean, the nice thing about this product is it's it's pretty compelling and a lot of people like it.

55:31

So, and you're growing? Yeah, we're growing.

55:35

And do you make any money? We make good money.

55:37

Well then you should be okay. Yeah, I think my biggest concerns would just be scaling Like.

55:42

We need to scale like, and and I think that's where a lot of the work is going to come into this.

55:47

Now, how do, how do we talk to more people about the product and like?

55:51

doing something like this is valuable not just for customers, but also to talk to installers, Like there are certain costs there are installers with certain values that we need and we can't work with ones that don't have those values and we want more of them to know about us.

56:04

Let's say I get a blackout.

56:07

What's happening to my system? Are you down and I'm up?

56:09

Am I protected? What happens? We go one step further.

56:14

We always install an external blackout protection box, so an EPS switch.

56:17

We don't rely on the internal EPS switches in invoices, they're too fragile.

56:21

We always doesn't make a difference Three phase, single phase.

56:25

Every single blackout protection site we install, we have the external switch over box.

56:28

It means that if the inverter were to break, your house would still have electricity Now when you use the internal EPS inside an inverter.

56:39

if the inverter breaks, there's a chance that your house doesn't get electricity anymore because, energy comes from the grid, goes to the inverter and then goes to the house, even under normal circumstances.

56:50

The external EPS box is a much simpler device.

56:54

It's just a big relay and so, even if the inverter breaks, your house still has electricity.

56:58

In a case of a blackout? In the case of a blackout, or not a blackout?

57:02

Right, right, right right, Got it.

57:05

Do you kind of send me regularly a bit of an energy saving kind of email and stuff?

57:11

Is it in your interest, obviously too, that I kind of stay?

57:15

Within my 120%. So do you offer anything in terms of educating customer about electricity?

57:23

We typically so in the app, which kind of shows you you know what you would have spent, kind of thing, we do not yet do a lot of communication with the Nobel customers.

57:35

We try to leave them alone Increasingly what we want to do is start talking to them, particularly the ones that are nowhere near their fair use cap.

57:42

When I start talking to them about hey, like you can use more power, right, if you feel like you need to turn your icon up, just do it Right.

57:51

And if you are thinking about getting an EV, like you can do this for free.

57:54

Like you're going to have to, you're going to.

57:56

You've got the gap to do it.

57:58

You've got the gap to do it Right.

58:00

So like making people aware that they've got an opportunity to use more electricity, I think is a really important thing that we can do, because and the reason we can do that is because and the reason why this electricity transition is going to happen the way it's going to happen is because electricity comes from the sky for free.

58:17

So energy used to be a valuable thing, right?

58:21

Energy? Because you'd have to burn something and build a power station and dig it out of the ground or whatever.

58:26

Now, literally you point shit at the sky and it comes for free.

58:31

The problem with it when you point things at the sky is that it comes whenever it wants, not always when you want it and not always at the speed you want it to.

58:38

So the value is moving from generating energy to being able to control energy that's otherwise known as power and also store it.

58:48

Obviously, with the batteries, all storage does is controls it right, gets it at one speed at one time and then gets it out at another speed at another time.

58:56

That's all the storage does. That's all the controller does when it talks.

58:58

It knows how fast can I get it in?

59:01

When am I going to get it in? Okay, how fast can I get it out?

59:03

What about two hours later? How fast can I get it out?

59:06

That's what it's always doing, and so by being able to change the time and the speed you get energy in and the time at the speed that you send energy out, you can solve problems and we get paid for that.

59:18

So I don't mind if people use more energy.

59:21

I want people to use more energy. It comes from the sky for free.

59:23

Live a good life.

59:25

Right, provided it can be managed, then people should make it a good life.

59:31

Make the air conditioner a bit colder if they're hot.

59:35

Okay. So what I don't get is why did it take you to develop this?

59:39

And why did the energy company who have been seeing solar growing for the last 10, 12, 15 years and now complaining there's so much solar in the middle of the day and we didn't build batteries in the last 10 years to absorb it?

59:53

I mean, blind Freddy could have seen that truck is driving you away.

59:57

Why didn't anybody do anything about it.

59:59

People are overwhelmed already on like they get the electricity bill and they're like I got no idea how come this is like it is Like I tried everything.

1:00:06

There's only 47 numbers on the back. I should be able to work that out quite easily.

1:00:10

Well, yeah, there's all sorts of stuff right, like it's just like I do a thing and then it works, and then it doesn't work.

1:00:15

And how many degrees of freedom are there that go into somebody's electricity, particularly if you've got like traditional solar and battery on it, is it working?

1:00:22

I don't know. Has it been under control? Probably maybe I'll get in the app.

1:00:24

Oh, no, now I've got to spend chunks of my life that goes all the way through the electricity industry and there are not that many people who really understand it end to end.

1:00:33

So you asked, why is it me? It's because I do understand it end to end, and I got lucky with my co-founder Lachlan, who is a PhD in control systems, literally like he is a.

1:00:44

He is did a PhD in exactly the type of control that our distributed controllers operate on, and I had a background in finance and I know about enterprise software and I just I was lucky enough to have built a great team and we we managed to survive the whole process.

1:01:05

Now I mean, let's say I put this like 50 meters next to the coast and all that Nice bit of salt spray on every morning.

1:01:12

It's conformal coated, it's fine.

1:01:16

What does that mean? It's got this weird transparent coating over the components, so salt spray doesn't hurt it.

1:01:22

It's also inside a steel cabinet, right?

1:01:28

So this thing here is inside a steel cabinet which is like a switchboard.

1:01:31

It's got a din rail so you can put additional breakers and stuff in there, and it helps keep everything safe and cool, and so so you don't have many of these breakdowns, no.

1:01:43

Oh made in Australia. How good is that you should win an award for this.

1:01:48

Have you ever won an?

1:01:50

award. We won the top engineering award for the country from Engineers Australia, the Sotoby Hudson Award in 2018.

1:01:58

Because we won an award for Project Eater recently with Osgrid, where we're doing dynamic network pricing.

1:02:03

So instead of the network price being published, you know, on the first of July, now Osgrid publishes to us a price every five minutes.

1:02:10

This is what it costs to import and export from our network.

1:02:13

And we won an award for that, I don't know, eight weeks ago, six weeks ago?

1:02:17

Now I do have a bit of a cynical let's go Angle to it.

1:02:21

But do you just sell me a really expensive solar and battery system and then find a way to boot me off the no bill after the three strikes and rub your hands and run?

1:02:30

away. So no, the main reason is because what we are doing is building power stations, lots of little pieces connected to the distribution network, not out in the countryside, out in the suburbs, and we're using those as one big generator to outcompete transmission.

1:02:48

Connected centralized generation, batteries, solar, everything Right.

1:02:52

So you're kind of the Lego baron of energy with all those little solar systems which other people own, but you have the ability to control and then get the best possible result within the energy network.

1:03:07

Yes, yes, yes. So we do 15 simultaneous services, which basically means there's 15 ways in which we can earn money at any moment in time, and but that's all done automatically.

1:03:19

You don't have anybody sitting there pressing buttons, do you no?

1:03:22

No, I mean there's thousands of these things in all sorts of different places, all with different predictions on how much solar, what sort of grid costs.

1:03:30

All sorts of stuff, like it's all computers.

1:03:33

But isn't that also meaning that the whole energy system and all that auctioning and time of day, metering and all that, isn't it all gone?

1:03:41

Just too complicated for normal people?

1:03:43

It was never meant for normal people. This is the thing.

1:03:46

The electricity market was not set up for normal people.

1:03:49

The electricity market was set up for investors and traders, industry, industry right.

1:03:56

Electricity retailers when the market design was done.

1:04:00

Their job is to protect people from all of that complexity, and it worked for a long time.

1:04:06

Market start was 1998. So for 10, 15 years people were protected from this complexity when they started to install solar and then when the effects of solar started to kick in.

1:04:17

When the electricity literally running the other way, then it was in design.

1:04:21

That's right. Then all of a sudden things got out of control for the retailers and the retailers were no longer able to provide a simple insurance right.

1:04:30

Electricity retailers were the original insurers of electricity, but it's too complicated for them now.

1:04:35

So that's why that abstraction that was very useful, that had everybody happy politically out in the world punters, everyone was happy because they had the protection from the complexity.

1:04:47

But it's now bled through and now everybody's wearing the complexity and it's just the wrong place for it.

1:04:53

So all we're really doing is reestablishing this insurance, this abstraction of complexity, and the reason we can do that is because we've got the computer and we know how everything works and we can teach the computer.

1:05:05

Now look, I mean I want to make a suggestion to you here.

1:05:09

The solar companies are really you depending on them to get your systems on the roof.

1:05:12

If you had actually quality and solace that you trust, there's no reason they couldn't sell a solar system to somebody and a battery it then actually give them as one of the options the repository no bill option and have that actually sold to them.

1:05:27

So you could actually depend on solar companies to grow your business, couldn't you?

1:05:31

Yes, we could do that. It has been brought up many times by many people.

1:05:36

I think solar installers understand, or solar retailers, dealers, know, that this is a product that would be attractive for customers.

1:05:44

Because it is yeah, it's an option there.

1:05:46

Yeah, you can have a solar system, you have a lower bill.

1:05:49

You get a battery, you got your blackout, but now I can drive this the extra bit and you're not worrying about the 120, 130 bucks every three months, plus the night consumption.

1:05:59

I'm actually gonna remove the whole thing from a billing point of view.

1:06:03

That's the next ultimate step when you buy solar and battery system.

1:06:06

Yes, my problem with that is that we had at one point 430 dealers on our and as a distribution channel for us and we found six that were people that shared our values, six.

1:06:19

So the issue was incentives. The incentive when we gave people the controller and a dollar a kilowatt hour which is what we used to do the grid credits program the incentive was to just put this controller on, say, you're gonna get a million dollars a year and run away and then you've got a repository up in your hands, so now it's repository problem.

1:06:37

The incentives were all wrong and I believe that people aren't bad, they just respond to incentives.

1:06:43

So we got the incentives so wrong To use existing solar dealers as a channel for Nobel.

1:06:49

We'd have to find a way to have the incentives right and that is design the systems properly so that the customer doesn't get kicked off right Because they're things.

1:06:58

No, you need the good experience. You need your proper data.

1:07:00

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we need to and you'd need to be able to set policy and say, when you install, you ask for tiles up front right.

1:07:08

You don't do the install unless you've got spare tiles right.

1:07:11

When you finish your install, you test this, this, this you should take a photo of this.

1:07:15

This, this, this you send it through. In the previous channel model, if we put those impositions on installers, they were also our customers.

1:07:24

No, they were our salespeople.

1:07:27

So if we made, if we gave them all these imposts and they didn't do that, and then we said well, you gotta go back or anything.

1:07:34

They're just like I'm not selling your stuff anymore, right?

1:07:36

And so all the incentives were very, very badly aligned.

1:07:38

So you kind of had you were pulling this way and you were pulling that way.

1:07:41

Yeah, that's right.

1:07:42

And we constantly were being forced to compromise against our values and, like everyone in the company, hated it.

1:07:49

You basically need somebody who gets it.

1:07:51

Yeah, so we brought it all in-house. That gave us all.

1:07:54

We've got all the data. The controller when you install it, you put the controller on first and the controller pays attention to what's going on and it can time.

1:08:02

Yep, meters are connected now. Okay, that's good.

1:08:04

Now I can see the inverter. Aha, yes, solar is just on now.

1:08:07

Solar's on Like it knows everything about the install while the install is occurring, and so we can measure everything.

1:08:12

How long does it take? How you know, did they get it done by this time?

1:08:16

Were they on site? Were they working? You know?

1:08:18

Did they test it properly? All the photos come through our SIM Pro.

1:08:24

Everything is automated and audited and we can maintain quality and it's much easier when they're either employees and we've got some very, very good subcontractors that are basically employees- so you basically got a sales team that explains it very thoroughly to the customer and you got installers who know clearly what you need to get done so that the system is properly installed so long-term you don't have issues.

1:08:47

Let's say I apply for a job for you in the sales department and I don't know if they get incentivized with extra money for more sales and this and that, but normally they do.

1:08:54

And let's say I take a bit of liberty and oversell it a little bit and overpromise and this and that, and then one day you find out that your best sales guy has actually fibbing a bit just to get extra sales.

1:09:06

What do you do?

1:09:08

So everything's recorded. That's the first thing All interactions with the customer.

1:09:12

So we don't go to, we don't do home visits. Typically Everything is done via Google Meet or our own in-house video conferencing tool and everything is loaded into our sales AI.

1:09:25

So if a customer says I expected blackout protection but I didn't get it, we say, okay, then we'll go and have a look and all the videos are there.

1:09:32

And so we just ask the sales AI blackout protection for Marcus Lambert?

1:09:35

And it'll go. It was mentioned here, here, here, here, here and here and then we can see whether or not the sales people.

1:09:41

Now, if the sales people are fibbing like we just have to honor it.

1:09:45

What it comes down to is policy, and so what we say is these are the things you're allowed to sell.

1:09:49

These are the things you're not allowed to sell. More in particular, these are the things you're allowed to sell and nothing else.

1:09:53

And we do that because we rigorously engineer all the things that they're allowed to sell the EPS box, for example, right, like that's rigorously engineered blackout protection.

1:10:05

No one else does it like we do right.

1:10:08

And we do it because we know how inverters work.

1:10:11

We have thousands of them under control and we've got all the statistics on how often an inverter will fail and the house will go dark.

1:10:17

We know all that stuff right. So only after it's been engineered and through a product design and implementation process?

1:10:24

Are my sales people to sell it If they start ad-libbing on bird protection?

1:10:28

We've never engineered bird protection, so it's not gonna have the proper little fence, et cetera, et cetera.

1:10:33

It's just gonna be a nightmare. Right?

1:10:35

So it's controlled because we have a seven year commitment to the customer minimum and, as a result, it needs to be right, otherwise we're just going back and fixing it and going back and fixing it, and no one wants that.

1:10:47

Okay, well, listen, I mean you must be. I don't know how you wake up in the morning and come up with new ideas, because just to have gone through the journey of developing this, having four generations, having changed and pivoted with the market, and have now come up with what looks to me like a bloody good product, I'm surprised you still got here.

1:11:07

I mean, I'm always driven to build and fix things.

1:11:11

Always have been. It's just like I swear to.

1:11:14

God, it's in your nature yeah.

1:11:15

It's in my nature. I get upset when there's things that are being done badly, that are actively hurting things right, and I like hard problems.

1:11:28

Like electricity is hard, hard.

1:11:31

It's one of the hardest problems and I really like it.

1:11:36

It's not an easy job. It's a horrible, hard job but I've got a good team.

1:11:41

I like the people I work with. That's a big part of it and I genuinely think that this is electricity industry changing not just in Australia but internationally.

1:11:50

I must say I get a lot of people here in for podcasts and they always have positive stories, some experience in the solar industry, some negatives and this, and that I've never had anybody come in like you who kind of got that magic wand, who can actually give me the no-bill system thing.

1:12:08

And if you would be sitting over here where's the hook?

1:12:12

What's wrong with it? I mean, I wouldn't.

1:12:15

I would you know why? I wouldn't buy it. It's too good to be true, yeah this is a problem that we have, but people go nah they can't be right, is it?

1:12:24

Yeah, so, like I was thinking about this, we've got some really clever technology that it's an AI that goes through all the sales calls and all the site presentations, so all of the site inspections, the site inspections, the home inspections that we do, and it flags things, and we've taught it to flag credibility issues.

1:12:43

Too good to be true. This sounds like a scam blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

1:12:46

Right, and every day pops up five to 10 of them for me, people just not believing it.

1:12:51

How is this possible? How can it be possible? So it's the thing that I think about.

1:12:56

It's one of the reasons I'm on here, so that people can see this is real, this is real right, and there's rhyme behind the madness.

1:13:04

And it works for a reason. Similar things happened when, long time ago, early 2000s, google released Gmail with one gig of free email storage Do you remember this?

1:13:17

And everyone was like how are they doing that?

1:13:19

That is amazing. Like Yahoo would give you 20 meg and someone else would give you 35 meg and Google went gig you get a gig right and people were like oh my God, this is a scam, they're mining all the data, blah, blah, blah, whatever it is right, all my emails will be copied.

1:13:33

Everything's gonna be copied. All this stuff, right?

1:13:35

Did any of that happen? No, it didn't. Why did people have that reaction to it?

1:13:39

Because it changed the world slightly.

1:13:41

It was a product that actually changed the world.

1:13:44

Similar thing happened with Tesla Autopilot Cars can't drive themselves.

1:13:49

What do you mean? Cars can't drive themselves, and then the Autopilot thing isn't perfect, right, but hey, the car pretty much drives itself.

1:13:55

Everyone's skeptical until they see it.

1:13:57

Then they get used to it. And now cars yeah, sort of like self-driving cars are a thing.

1:14:02

A year ago, chatgpt came out.

1:14:05

All this talk about AI, ai, ai, blah, blah, blah.

1:14:07

And now you can write haikus about I don't know your wife's favorite dress in the style of I don't know Proust.

1:14:13

Here's the other one that I was thinking of in the car on the way here Skype Remember how you'd like sweat when you had to make an international phone call?

1:14:20

You're like, oh shit, this is costing me a bomb, right?

1:14:22

And then Skype came along and everyone was able to make international phone calls for free, and everyone was like what is this?

1:14:27

How is this possible? Like, is people listening to my?

1:14:30

Like? What is going on here, right? Where's the scam?

1:14:32

Where's the scam? Where's the scam? And it was not.

1:14:35

It was just a change in technology, right?

1:14:37

And basically what that was was the distribution of the telephone exchange, whereby it was just a long virtual wire in the form of the internet between both people on the telephone, and instead of telephones it was computers.

1:14:50

And that's exactly what this is.

1:14:52

People become habituated to the old ways.

1:14:54

Oh yeah, okay, we're gonna build this like bespoke system for my house out of this bit and that bit, and then I'm gonna have to watch it and blah, blah, blah.

1:15:01

Or I call it electricity retailer.

1:15:03

They offer me a discount, 31% or 32%.

1:15:05

Which one do I go with? Right?

1:15:07

Like it's or spend three days to look for the best feed-in tariffs.

1:15:10

That's right. Spend three days of your life looking for the best. Oh, 14 cents, how many.

1:15:14

Only for three months, but they are more expensive with the kilowatt hour.

1:15:17

So now, have to calculate the kilowatts hours they're using versus the feed-in tariff I send out, and then I can do a spreadsheet.

1:15:23

I can work that out.

1:15:25

It's usually blokes doing that, isn't it yeah? I don't know, I don't know who is usually doing it, but like tell me what?

1:15:30

Anybody who like values their time knows that that is a waste of time.

1:15:34

So by you really empowering the individual households to contribute to the generation of electricity, how do electricity company feel about you?

1:15:43

Like, if I'm honest, I think they don't think about us.

1:15:45

I think that-. You're not big enough yet Not big enough yet and, like you said before, right, like they had 10 years to know that there was all this solar coming and they didn't build batteries.

1:15:55

No one's thinking about it. You know what they're thinking about.

1:15:57

How can I make it a 32% discount rather than a 31% discount?

1:16:00

Cause that's how they compete. Their customer acquisition is around who can provide the largest discount and what shenanigans can we pull.

1:16:08

If they are pulling shenanigans to get 32% or 33% to beat origins 31%?

1:16:14

And then the second thing that they're very good at, or they work very hard on, is customer retention.

1:16:17

So when the customer leaves for origins 32% discount and they can say, yeah, like I can't give you 32, I can only give you 31.

1:16:24

Here's the reasons you should stay with us.

1:16:26

So acquisition and retention, really-.

1:16:29

So if you want to leave an electricity company, expect a phone call.

1:16:32

They keep you.

1:16:32

Absolutely. There's a retention team, right, and they will try to do that.

1:16:36

So electricity companies, retailers, do like four things Customer acquisition, customer retention, billing and risk.

1:16:44

And that risk is the energy part of it, right, but basically billing is the most expensive part.

1:16:49

And then customer acquisition and customer retention mean that the other two things are worth doing.

1:16:54

So, to come back to the question they like you?

1:16:57

Do they dislike you or they ignore?

1:16:59

you. I don't think they like us very much. I mean, I spend time in reg environments with them.

1:17:03

They broadly ignore us, but every now and then I'll arc up about a particular thing.

1:17:09

That is like they're pushing for a particular direction.

1:17:12

That is just the curse of incumbency.

1:17:17

So basically, they're trying to feather their own nest, is it?

1:17:19

And you call them out?

1:17:21

Yeah, so we saw this most recently in the Market Ancillary Services specification regulatory fight.

1:17:30

That happened over a couple of years that I was particularly vocal in and we didn't get a 100% win, but we got a pretty good win and like there was a lot of heat.

1:17:41

So if we get the Gmail moment and Reposit is a solution, because what's gonna happen as solar and batteries come down more and more and more, your offer will become more and more attractive.

1:17:52

So the future really can belong to a Reposit or, if somebody else does, a similar thing.

1:17:58

So if you do take 30, 40, 50% of the Sydney market suddenly, how do energy retailers feel about you then?

1:18:07

Yeah, I think they really don't like us then. But there's a limit to how many people could be on Nobel.

1:18:13

I don't know what that limit is. It's a long way from where we are now, because sooner or later the snake eats its tail, but we set up for that, we're ready for that, like it's natural that the snake will eat its tail.

1:18:26

Hang on, I don't know that. What does that mean?

1:18:28

You're getting too big for your own boots, or what it means?

1:18:31

that you have too much capacity and Nobody wants it.

1:18:37

Yeah, it's already happening with solar.

1:18:40

That's why solar goes to negative pricing in the middle of the day, because there's too much solar and everyone's got it at the same time.

1:18:46

So if 70% of the Sydney Basin was a deposit, then we would just dominate the markets and there wouldn't be offtake for all of those things.

1:18:56

Now I think that EVs will increase electricity consumption by 40%.

1:19:01

Wow, I think that Australia should be a place where we generate electricity for other countries and store it chemically and put it on ships.

1:19:13

So to explain that to people, we've got all this big territory, the world will need more electricity.

1:19:18

You can actually use electricity to make, let's say, for example, ammonia or hydrogen, which then can be transported around the world, and it's really energy in a physical form that then can be transported around the world.

1:19:31

Yeah, like we do with gas. Now, right, we get it out of the ground.

1:19:34

It is energy in a physical form, methane.

1:19:36

We compress it, we stick it on ships and we send it to Japan and everywhere.

1:19:39

Germany, et cetera. Like we don't need to get it from the ground.

1:19:44

Like we don't need fossil fuel. We can actually turn renewable energy into physical energy.

1:19:49

That allows us then to transport I mean antrophorester et cetera is really investing heavily in that kind of idea, and you believe that that in itself will also increase our electricity generation?

1:20:00

Yeah, I actually think. I mean we're talking years, years, maybe decades into the future.

1:20:05

But even since when I was a kid, I actually think that Australia could make so much energy that it is essentially free for its residents, and that's really what I mean.

1:20:14

The mission of repository is to make energy limitless and free.

1:20:17

That's the mission statement, and I think that Australia has could make so much energy with a relatively small population.

1:20:22

Energy could be free for Australian consumers and Australian producers.

1:20:27

And could be one of our main exports. It should be one of our main exports, but I mean, let's call it energy that does not eff up the world.

1:20:34

Yeah, I'm talking like because there's almost no limit to the amount of renewable energy we can make with the continent we have and where we're positioned globally right Almost no limit, so we don't need to be digging it up.

1:20:46

It's, I mean, it would seem like an obvious thing for us.

1:20:51

The US is gonna have a crack, everyone's gonna have a crack at this China.

1:20:55

Interesting, all right, well, look, this was very enlightening.

1:20:58

I unfortunately can't keep it because I wouldn't know what to do with it, but it does look pretty.

1:21:04

So thank you very much for your passion, for your thinking and for your explaining how I can get a Nobel for seven years on my electricity Absolutely my pleasure.

1:21:18

Thanks, marcus.

1:21:20

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