0:00

Hi , we have Alan Hunter here today

0:02

from NRN and Alan

0:04

will all explain what NRN has to

0:06

offer , and it's obviously in the solar space . But

0:09

, alan , before we always start , we have

0:11

one golden rule Just

0:13

to get the vibe going in the room , et cetera

0:16

. Could you please touch my ball ? Yes

0:18

, of course . Did

0:21

you see how it kind of was flickering a ?

0:22

little bit . No , it didn't flicker .

0:24

Now try again . I want to see if I can See

0:28

. So that gets the vibe going Special ball . Oh

0:30

yep , Can

0:35

you explain what NRN is all

0:37

about All ?

0:37

started from a belief of not

0:40

depending on consumers to buy

0:42

rooftop solar to be able to get

0:44

access to cheaper bills or make the transition

0:46

to renewable . So really

0:49

, what we're trying to achieve is fundamentally

0:52

enabling people to access

0:54

rooftop solar and battery , but without paying any

0:57

cost or finance . We've

0:59

been going for the last four years trying to build out

1:01

this product . It's a very strong belief or

1:04

vision to how we can achieve this . We

1:07

believe that everyone should have equal access , regardless

1:09

if you've got the wealth to buy solar

1:12

for your home or you don't have the wealth

1:14

if you're renting a home . We

1:17

now have designed a solution that everyone

1:19

can have equal access to rooftop solar and battery

1:21

through what we've got at NRN .

1:23

That's always been an issue with solar , hasn't it ? That

1:25

, for example , people in a rental position can't

1:28

really often get a benefit because very

1:30

few landlords will buy , out of the goodness

1:32

of their heart , a solar system

1:34

to then give the benefit to the tenant

1:37

.

1:37

Yeah , correct .

1:38

So you know , can you

1:40

explain to me really how NRN

1:42

works ?

1:43

Exactly the same as energy , how

1:45

it worked back when it first was created

1:47

. We didn't have to buy a power station

1:49

to power our home . It's

1:51

the same concept the power station that's put

1:54

on your home , the rooftop solar and a battery

1:56

system is purchased by the

1:58

energy sector . We're part of the energy sector . These

2:02

costs are covered by the energy retailers

2:04

and they are designing plans

2:06

that include solar and battery . So how

2:08

does it work for a consumer ? Very

2:10

similar to your phone plan . You might have a phone that your

2:13

phone plan includes a phone . It didn't cost

2:15

you anything for the phone plan Sorry , it didn't

2:17

cost you anything for the phone , but you just pay a monthly fee

2:19

for your phone plan . We now have energy retailers

2:21

in Australia that have designed energy plans but include

2:24

these generation assets like rooftop

2:26

solar and battery to put on your

2:28

home . So we're just kind of taking it

2:30

back to the principles of what

2:32

the energy sector was built around . It's built

2:34

around a community

2:37

of it's . Not one person

2:39

has to buy a generation asset for themselves . It's

2:41

about the energy industry supplying it

2:43

and then using that asset across

2:45

the community .

2:46

So you're saying I got a house and

2:49

the house has a roof Yep , and

2:51

then I put a solar system on the back

2:53

, but I'm not paying for it . No , nrn

2:56

is helping me to facilitate that .

2:58

Yeah .

2:59

Correct so far .

3:00

Correct so far and maybe I'll walk through that

3:02

process . So you've got a house , you've got a roof and

3:04

you want electricity to turn your lights on . You've

3:06

got two methods today with

3:09

our solution . One are you going to go and join

3:11

an energy retailer and they'll give you access to

3:13

the energy that they buy from the At

3:15

a higher price At a higher price

3:17

for sure . Or the other way is

3:19

you just sign up to this new alternative

3:22

energy plan that just includes rooftop

3:24

solar and battery fully installed on your

3:26

home and it costs you nothing . There's

3:28

no financing involved , there was no trickery

3:31

with costs and ups and

3:33

downs and rebates . There's nothing

3:35

.

3:35

But then I pay for the electricity you pay for

3:37

the electricity and then I pay more so

3:39

that I own the solar . Do I ? Yeah

3:41

? So not really , or do I pay less ?

3:43

Yeah , you pay less . So the electricity you're

3:45

buying will come from your roof and

3:47

it will also come from the grid , so

3:50

, yeah , the digital grid . So you've got to blend . The

3:52

retailer will sell you that in

3:55

different ways . There's different plans

3:57

that are available . But I guess the

3:59

other benefit of that you just called it out about owning

4:01

there's every month

4:03

there is a value of your bill that

4:05

will go towards the value of that

4:07

system , so you can buy it anytime if you really

4:10

wanted to own these assets or these

4:12

systems . We're just questioning what

4:14

is the big benefit of spending $10,000

4:17

up front to pay for your energy

4:20

bills up front . If AGL

4:22

phoned me today and asked me to pay

4:24

$20,000 in advance

4:26

for my energy costs , then I'll get given green

4:28

energy . I don't know if I'll take up that

4:30

deal , but that's what the reality is happening today

4:32

. I know for well . Solar

4:35

and battery doesn't have a very

4:37

strong residual value , meaning that there's not

4:39

a secondary market of you taking off your roof

4:41

and sell it in the public space . Therefore

4:43

, the value of that system is actually

4:46

$0 from the from day dot

4:48

. When you do buy them , you put

4:50

a system on my roof .

4:52

You then use the electricity that

4:55

my solar generates , but

4:57

instead of because I never paid for the solar

4:59

system , it now I

5:02

still have to pay for the electricity , but

5:04

the rate is lower than what I would

5:06

normally get from the energy retailer . Is that correct

5:08

? That's correct . But and

5:10

because it has a battery , I can also

5:12

benefit of the solar during the day

5:15

, so I can still pull out cheaper

5:17

electricity at night as well . That's

5:19

correct . Yep , exactly that . Okay . So really

5:21

, simply , somebody's put a solar system on a roof

5:23

that I don't pay for it , but

5:26

then the electricity out of the solar I can generate

5:28

and purchase and

5:30

I pay less than what the one comes out

5:32

of the PowerPoint . That's right . And

5:34

what's the difference per annum , let's say

5:37

, on a normal family household ? What

5:39

do I save by basically making you

5:41

on the land you to put a solar

5:44

system on my roof ? What's the benefit for

5:46

me ?

5:46

Look , right now , our

5:48

average customers are saving between $750

5:51

to $800 a year by

5:53

having this benefit . We let's

5:55

refer back to the terminology return on

5:57

investments . This is an infinite

5:59

return on investment because there was no investment required

6:02

, so there is money in your pocket from

6:04

day one . Now we're only getting

6:06

going Like and the great thing

6:08

with the NRN business model

6:11

is , as the network grows

6:13

and more and more homes join

6:15

NRN , these rates can actually get

6:17

cheaper because they're working together and

6:19

we'll talk a little bit about how that works later . But

6:22

we believe in the next 18 months we're able

6:25

to help consumers

6:27

save between $12 to $1500

6:29

a year by joining NRN

6:31

, having a solar battery system on their home at no

6:33

cost , and this will actually challenge the same

6:35

amount of savings that you get from buying a solar

6:38

system on your own today , and that we've

6:40

got a very clear roadmap to how we can achieve that

6:42

.

6:42

So you're saying right now , with the energy

6:45

retail plans that you've negotiated , the

6:47

savings is around the $800

6:49

mark for kind of the average

6:52

consumer . If I'm a large consumer

6:54

of electricity , then the savings would be higher

6:57

, would they ? Yeah ?

6:57

like . We have customers reaching nearly $2000 a

6:59

year of savings from what they were paying before

7:01

. And that's just . They're a very high

7:04

energy user . The cost of energy has gone

7:06

up by 25% the last few months . So

7:08

, yeah , I think there's a lot of other factors

7:11

that are showing the values of

7:13

what we're providing .

7:14

Now , are there any other services and

7:17

companies that do similar work to NRN

7:19

?

7:20

For those in the industry , very popular

7:22

terminology could be viewed as a power purchase

7:24

agreement . This isn't a power purchase agreement

7:27

. This is very , very different . There are

7:29

large CNI or

7:31

, I guess , commercial customers

7:33

that have solar on their roofs . It

7:36

doesn't cost them anything and they buy the energy directly

7:38

from the roof . That's called a PPA , a power purchase agreement

7:40

, and you buy energy for an agreed

7:42

10-year period at a fixed price . This

7:45

is very , very different . This really enables the energy

7:47

retailer to create these plans . Now these plans

7:49

can change over time and what

7:52

we're now doing is working with energy

7:54

retailers to make sure that these plans are more

7:56

and more attractive . But the

7:58

big important factor for us is

8:00

the customers having a choice . We

8:03

don't believe that one customer should be tied

8:05

legally to an energy retailer . It's

8:07

the big stick versus the carrot . We

8:10

want to see energy retailers

8:12

providing a carrot to incentivize

8:14

customers to stay with them , and

8:17

really that's why we're going down that route

8:19

. So when we think about other products

8:21

that are in market , there are other

8:23

financing solutions

8:25

by now Pay-L-Age solutions . There

8:28

are other retailers looking

8:30

at how they do offer this . But yeah

8:32

, look , it's all now moving in

8:34

a new direction and hopefully

8:37

, you know , I think we're not the only ones

8:39

out there . We're pathing away for others as well . But

8:43

we need to . We

8:45

need to challenge the norm of just selling

8:47

more solar systems is the way forward for

8:49

for the transition to renewable .

8:51

I hear that you give me cheap electricity bills

8:53

In a cost of living

8:56

crisis . Sounds like a bit too

8:58

good to be true . How do you do it ?

9:00

Look , pretty much . We

9:03

work with energy retailers to build energy plans

9:05

that will be a cost

9:08

a cheaper cost of energy

9:10

for you . So energy prices

9:12

have increased by 25 percent

9:14

. We put a that's all

9:16

energy from the grid . We put a solar and battery

9:19

system on your home . There's no cost

9:21

, there's no financing , it's nothing like that for

9:23

yourself , but essentially that

9:25

energy retailer is going to sell you the energy from

9:27

that's being generated in your house . You

9:29

know , we , we , we've seen our average customer

9:32

save between 800 to 850

9:34

dollars a year right now and we're

9:36

expecting that to increase by another 20 30

9:38

percent over the next 12 months . It's

9:41

, it's so easy , like it just

9:43

it's available for for owners

9:45

, for renters , for landlords , for

9:47

social homes , government housing . It's

9:50

really removing the cost barriers

9:52

that we've had there for years and , yeah

9:54

, we think it's a bit of a game changer .

9:57

I mean tenants in the past always had

9:59

really a problem accessing

10:01

solar . So your system

10:03

, you put it on the roof and

10:06

then that electricity that's

10:08

obviously in bracket for free

10:10

. You're still charging something

10:13

for it , but it's lower than

10:15

the energy retail price and that

10:17

difference is the saving

10:19

for the end customer . So I'm just

10:21

using a sample . I don't know if these are your prices , but

10:23

let's say if I can buy electricity for 45

10:25

cents in the middle of the day , or do

10:28

it's the later part of the afternoon when

10:30

it's a bit more expensive , and then

10:32

I use that one

10:34

coming out of your system and that might be only

10:36

25 cents , is it ? And so that 20

10:39

cents difference Is your savings Right

10:41

. And I can get that because I've got a battery . I

10:43

can get that at night as well .

10:45

That's correct . Yeah , exactly , and that's all through

10:47

our energy retailer partners

10:49

. So you don't join , you're not signing up

10:51

to NRN and NRN isn't giving

10:53

you a bill . It's well

10:56

recognized energy retailers in the market

10:58

that see this as a new

11:00

way of decarbonizing

11:03

their portfolio and putting more renewables in

11:05

the grid .

11:06

Right , so I mean normally

11:08

energy retailers . We think , well , they're

11:10

trying to make maximum profit out of us

11:12

, so are they

11:14

suddenly become socially conscious ? Or

11:16

does it make a lot of business sense for them ?

11:19

Look , it does make business sense for them . I

11:21

think we're at a very complex

11:24

stage in our grid . We have a lot of

11:26

different fuel mixes , with renewable and fossil

11:28

fuels , and as

11:30

we go through this transition over the next decade

11:32

, it's getting more and more expensive

11:34

for them from the grid . So this alternative

11:37

solution whereby providing

11:40

solar and battery on your home for free , at

11:42

no cost , and then just charging you for the energy

11:44

that you use from it , is

11:48

a really good way for retailers to make

11:50

this work financially for them as well , because we

11:52

all have to win .

11:53

I mean I understand that with EVs

11:56

coming , et cetera , the need of

11:58

the grid to deliver more electricity

12:00

is really enormous and

12:03

therefore also the need for the infrastructure

12:05

to be built out is therefore enormous

12:07

and that will add more cost to

12:09

electricity bills going forward . If

12:13

we suddenly have 1,000 , 2,000

12:15

, 5,000 , 10,000 NRN systems

12:17

up there with batteries backing the grid

12:19

, does your system also make the grid

12:21

more stable ?

12:22

Definitely so . We call

12:24

this a virtual power plant , so all of our systems

12:26

are virtually connected together and

12:28

, to put it into easy

12:30

terms , it's looking at the market

12:32

dynamics we have . A very volatile market

12:34

goes ups and downs and it can be

12:36

very reactive . And the purpose

12:38

of a virtual power plant is to be reactive

12:41

, to help the

12:43

market in certain times .

12:47

So if there's a very hot day and everybody turns the aircon

12:49

, on not off . At

12:52

that point in time , your 3,000

12:54

batteries would be able to send power

12:56

back into the grid . To back the grid , Is that

12:58

it ? And that means we have to have less

13:00

infrastructure . Therefore , the overall cost

13:03

for grid expansion is

13:05

going to be reduced .

13:06

This could be exactly a point . I

13:08

think there's a lot of smarts that goes behind

13:10

what a really good virtual power plant

13:13

is . We could get to the point

13:15

where we are . Through AI we

13:17

are forecasting the usage of power

13:19

. That if we use , example , 3,000

13:21

homes , let's say 1,000 , the

13:24

computer knew that there wasn't power going

13:26

to be used in the next hour , so it could prioritize

13:28

that battery to be discharged in support . So

13:31

there's a lot of different ways of looking

13:33

at it . But yeah , I think as

13:35

we go into the full transition

13:38

towards renewable , we need to be using

13:40

AI and optimization

13:42

algorithms to help us further

13:45

manage the grid . But also that's why there

13:47

is a result of cheaper energy .

13:49

So what are actually the unique selling

13:51

points of NRN ?

13:53

We're changing the way that people

13:56

were always expected to go and buy

13:58

their energy upfront . You

14:00

buy a solar system it could be 7,000

14:02

, it could be a solar and battery for $20,000 . You're

14:05

paying for your energy eight years in advance or

14:07

seven years in advance . Here

14:09

, the big differentiation is

14:11

we are bringing you retailers through our network

14:14

who will offer these plans that just include

14:16

solar and battery . It's a buzzword

14:19

of energy as a service and

14:21

you can save money from day one .

14:23

I understand that with cars and

14:25

things like that nowadays , the more younger

14:28

generation , they're not like us , the boomers

14:30

, who had the teddy bear and we went

14:32

and hold it all day and I want

14:34

to own my solar system on my roof

14:36

. So is that just

14:38

a whole shift in thinking

14:41

? Does it mean I don't have

14:43

to go up and clean the pigeon poo of my

14:45

solar panels and stuff like that ? I mean , what's it

14:47

in terms of maintenance ? Who does that ?

14:49

It's exactly that . We beg the question

14:51

why do you need to own a solar

14:53

system ? Does it

14:55

give you a lot of joy , pride and

14:57

everything else , that sense of ownership

15:00

? So we are challenging that . I think for the boomers

15:02

there's definitely that sense of we have to own it , not

15:05

just having access to it , but

15:07

in terms of looking after it . That's our responsibility

15:09

. We pay . There's

15:11

about a $5,000 maintenance contract

15:13

that's sat with your local installer to look after

15:16

that system and the responsibility

15:18

here is shared . To say , you're

15:21

going to have cheaper access to cheaper energy because

15:23

your systems are being looked after and managed well

15:25

. You don't have to have that stress responsibility

15:28

. All you want to do is go home , turn

15:30

the lights on . It's cheaper power and

15:32

it's green . And if we can do that without you spending

15:35

your penny , I think we've done our job right .

15:36

Obviously , if I own the system , then

15:38

I get the full benefit . I'm not paying for the electricity

15:41

anymore , correct . But then also , if I take

15:43

my $18,000 to $20,000 and

15:45

I invest it somewhere , I get a return

15:47

on that . That's right . So it'd be interesting to

15:49

see the numbers of taking my $20,000

15:52

, investing it , getting the benefits of the

15:54

cheap electricity to you , and it's

15:56

possibly going to be fairly similar .

15:58

No , not really . Let's take this example

16:00

a $20,000 solar and battery

16:02

solution , we

16:05

could save a customer right now $800

16:07

, is the average savings that we're seeing . Those

16:09

customers would have saved maybe $1,800

16:12

to $2,000 if they purchased it themselves . So

16:14

that delta , let's say it's an extra $1,200

16:17

difference , but it costs you $20,000 extra

16:19

. So to get your money back in comparison

16:21

to what we're offering is nearly 18 years and

16:24

I think that's huge

16:27

. And we are the

16:29

very beginning of this journey right now . We

16:31

see in the next 12 to 18

16:33

months we're getting that savings figure up to $1,300

16:35

, $1,400 . And we'll start competing against

16:38

how much you could save if you purchased it yourself . And

16:40

then you've got your maintenance and your cleaning

16:43

and everything else that comes along with it . I think

16:45

it's a time where buying

16:47

it for yourself and yourself only are

16:49

the days of a decade ago , that the future

16:52

is a collective of having

16:54

access to these .

16:55

So you're saying I actually potentially get a better

16:57

deal with NRM ?

16:57

100% and you just raised a point there

16:59

. If you had your $20,000 and put it into

17:01

an interest-bearing account and with interest

17:04

rates rising at the moment , you've got

17:06

an opportunity loss of what

17:08

you could earn from that money and you

17:11

have access to that money . You have a level of liquidity

17:13

. There's no liquidity when you buy a solar

17:15

and battery system .

17:16

I mean . The other issue is also that nowadays a lot

17:18

of people do put the solar

17:20

and battery purchase on through their mortgage , but

17:23

the mortgage rates are around the 7%

17:25

now yeah , correct . So

17:28

if it's a 6% return that I worked

17:30

out before on my $20,000

17:32

to get me $1,200 , you

17:36

are actually making a lot of sense .

17:38

Yeah , yeah , and

17:40

I think the standard payback period

17:42

let's call it that for a solar and battery system today

17:44

is eight to nine years , and maybe seven

17:46

in certain if you get some cheaper systems , but

17:49

let's say eight to nine If you now add

17:51

our savings there and we talk about that delta

17:53

from $800 , to say that $2,000

17:55

, so $1,200 a delta

17:57

. yeah , it's getting to 16

18:00

to 18 year payback when you're comparing

18:02

it to what you could have with no cost . So I think that's

18:04

where the big difference is , and we're

18:06

only going to make that gap small and small over

18:08

the years to come .

18:09

But if I'm a solar sales guy , I will try and tell

18:11

you that it'll pay itself back in five years , and

18:13

I hope you don't do the math yourself .

18:15

There's ethics within this game and I think energy

18:17

is a very confusing industry . We're

18:19

all consumers of energy , we all pay for it , but

18:22

we know so little and I think

18:24

it's about trusting

18:26

the expert to educate us in the right

18:28

way . But if we remove those costs

18:31

, then we don't have dodgy salespeople trying

18:34

to get a buck very quickly because there's no cost

18:36

to it .

18:38

Nowadays we've got a cost of living crisis

18:40

and at the moment you say , look

18:42

, you've got a roof . Talk your landlord into it

18:45

. This is one of the easiest

18:47

way , at least , to get $800 to $1,000

18:49

off your living expenses per year

18:51

, and for some people that's quite a bit of money . It's

18:53

a lot of money . Now , but naturally

18:55

everybody's gone a bit cynical

18:58

nowadays . I mean , there's a scam on my phone

19:00

popping up every day . Do

19:04

you sometimes get asked is this too good to be true

19:06

? Every day ? Do

19:08

you dress up as Santa Claus and try to sell

19:10

them at the present , or something ?

19:12

I mean ?

19:12

what's your answer ?

19:13

Yeah , look , our answer is we

19:16

work with partners . We're a partnership business . We

19:18

have energy retailers that build the products . We

19:21

then have solar retailers . Solar retailers play

19:23

a huge role in this transition towards

19:26

renewable . They

19:29

work locally , so

19:31

it's really important for us that it's

19:33

your local solar installer

19:36

up the road , so John , who's helped all

19:38

your neighbors get renewables . We're

19:40

going to educate John from that solar retailer

19:42

and give them the tools

19:45

and visibility over these savings

19:47

. Because it is around trust , and

19:50

I know what we've built , I know what we've

19:52

seen , the numbers and genuinely

19:54

, people are saving money . We have great feedback

19:57

coming back to us and

19:59

, yeah , how do we overcome the trust factor

20:01

is the challenge ahead of us

20:03

.

20:04

From all the things I've seen in solar I've not been in

20:06

the energy for 20 years . It's

20:08

very seldom that I don't pay

20:11

anything upfront . I get

20:13

a benefit immediately . I

20:15

don't have to actually worry about cleaning

20:17

and maintaining , and if it doesn't

20:19

work , that's your problem , isn't

20:21

it ? That's correct . What happens then with the

20:23

18 cents ? But ? Or the 20 cents

20:26

or the 22 ? If my system is down

20:28

, I can't get the cheap electricity

20:30

out of it anymore . What happens there

20:33

?

20:33

No , look , it's subject to the type of energy

20:35

plan that the retailer will

20:37

offer you . But we actually don't

20:39

get paid if a system isn't working and

20:42

we get paid by the energy retailer , by the energy

20:44

sector . They pay us for the

20:47

access towards this rooftop solar and battery

20:49

. If it's not working , we don't get paid . So we are

20:51

on the hook to make sure that these systems are working

20:53

. I can assure you , every

20:55

day at 8 30 AM , we

20:57

all get an email around the performance of all

20:59

of our sites . So internally

21:02

, as a team , we are always

21:04

on top to make sure these systems are working . That's our job

21:06

and as a consumer

21:09

, you've got lots of things doing your life . That's not your job

21:11

. To make sure these systems are working , that's ours . So

21:13

I guess that's the assurity that we do have

21:16

in place . And then every retailer will have a

21:18

different plan structure to

21:20

either remunerate

21:24

or something back to an end

21:26

user if there is an issue . But look

21:29

, we have a turnaround time within

21:31

10 business days to get that site up and running

21:33

, fixed and go , go again . We've heard

21:35

loads of horror stories over the years and

21:38

I think this is a big problem that we're solving .

21:41

What horror stories of people having purchased

21:43

solar and then the company go on bust and

21:45

they can't get their warranty and things like

21:47

that .

21:47

This is it .

21:48

So those issues we won't have with you .

21:50

No . So we're working with solar

21:52

retailers in our space . They

21:55

all have an obligation to make sure that that system

21:57

is working for a 10-year period . We

22:00

always forget that they're

22:02

not getting paid for that . We

22:04

talk about the race at the bottom in the solar industry

22:07

and

22:09

the smaller that margin is there , the smaller

22:11

that goes towards their support team who can help

22:13

these systems get fixed on the line as

22:16

an our own . We put nearly a $5,000 maintenance

22:18

, basically contract

22:20

behind every site that we install . That goes

22:22

back to the solar industry . So we're paying

22:25

them for doing a job that they should whether

22:27

they're doing anyway today , but it makes sure

22:29

it's sustainable . They can afford to get the contact centers

22:31

, they can afford to send people out and fix it , and

22:34

I think that's something that's really

22:36

overlooked within our sector . It's just about

22:38

how could I get the cheapest system on

22:40

my road from save as much money ? There's a lot more

22:42

that needs to go behind .

22:44

But look , I mean , there's solar systems which

22:46

can be sold for $2,990

22:49

. And then there are others which claim

22:51

to do the same and they're $7,000

22:53

. And most Australians are gamblers

22:56

, so they go oh , $2,999

22:58

. That'll save me $2,000 a year . I got

23:01

my money back in a year and a quarter . That's

23:03

a much better deal than our rent . Is

23:05

that true ?

23:05

No , I

23:10

think the less you pay , the more you spend . I

23:12

think it's always a saying in the solar world

23:14

.

23:16

What you're saying . The $2,990

23:19

system will have an issue . What a year ? Two or three

23:21

?

23:22

If not before I know . Systems are getting

23:24

installed and aren't even switched on and you don't know

23:26

that for the next six months until you get your bill , and then you're

23:28

a bit price shocked . You then try and get

23:30

around to contacting the person that installed it and they're not

23:32

there anymore .

23:34

So I think there's a lot of phoenix being going on

23:36

in the solar industry .

23:37

I think it's a very well-known factor

23:39

within this space . I

23:44

think there's certain bodies that are doing

23:46

a lot at the moment to try and clean this space up

23:48

. I always advise someone , if they're

23:50

going to buy a system , to go through the

23:52

NETCC the New Energy

23:55

Tech Consumer Code , who have a list

23:57

of many solar retailers that are audited

23:59

and get accredited , essentially to

24:01

buy it . So

24:04

, yes , I think it's known in the industry

24:07

that it's always about the cheapest

24:09

system is the best it's for a consumer

24:11

. It's wrong .

24:13

You're saying horror stories in solar ? Yeah

24:16

, give me a sample .

24:17

There's times where people would buy a system and

24:20

it's not even switched on . They might

24:22

not even have the permission to

24:24

have a system on their home . Every

24:27

household has to get permission from the grid , so

24:31

your local grid must authorize you to

24:33

have that system . If they don't do the right paperwork

24:35

, you can't get connected and your system will

24:37

stay off . We see this

24:39

a lot and I would say a lot Like

24:42

you hear it , a lot of this happening . You also

24:44

hear the instances where half the

24:46

system has been connected properly and the other half

24:48

hasn't , meaning that

24:50

you know you're generating power , but

24:52

how much do you know that you should be generating

24:54

if you got installed a ?

24:56

system . The light on the inverter's green

24:58

?

24:58

Yeah , that should be OK If a little bit of power

25:00

is flowing through , but what if one

25:03

of the strings wasn't even connected ? Then

25:05

I'll get a big bill again there you go and

25:07

you don't know until you get that big bill and

25:09

I think there's . You know we . Energy

25:12

is confusing , Solar is confusing

25:15

. We're trying to make it easy and there's low

25:17

risk , Like we take the risk because

25:20

we know energy . We work within

25:22

the sector . Why

25:24

should we rely on consumers to buy

25:26

energy infrastructure

25:29

like rooftop solar and give them

25:31

all the risk to make sure that we're

25:33

making this transition ? This is our big belief

25:35

.

25:36

So if I go to NRN I don't spend

25:38

money up front . I get

25:40

a lower bill than I would just , naturally

25:42

. Why aren't you overrun

25:44

with thousands of people , all kind of like the

25:46

Beatles in the olden days ?

25:48

Yeah , it's starting to be honest with you , I

25:51

think . Now we've passed what we call our

25:53

proof of concept stage . We had

25:55

to demonstrate that a customer's gonna save money

25:57

, so we had a cohort of around 100 customers

26:00

who tried out these systems

26:02

. We put it on their roofs and the results

26:04

were a lot better than what we expected , which is always

26:06

a nice thing when you're building out a proof

26:08

of concept . We're now at the point

26:10

of working with your

26:13

local solar retailers to help introduce

26:15

this product into your local area , and that's

26:17

, I guess that's what we're gonna be doing over the next

26:19

12 to 18 months . So I'm sure

26:21

you're gonna . We might be bigger

26:23

than the Beatles , you never know .

26:26

Now , why should solar retailers opt

26:28

for a partnership with you ?

26:30

Customers only value a system

26:33

on the dollar price they're given . They don't value the

26:35

service , they don't value the background of that company

26:37

and everything else . So

26:39

why solar retailers are interested in

26:41

our solution ? It eliminates all race

26:43

to the bottom . Everyone's got a fair playing

26:45

ground because there's no cost for the customer .

26:48

But it's also a new interest to put good gear

26:50

in . So it doesn't break down , isn't it ?

26:53

Yeah , so we have an approved product list that

26:56

solar retailers are able to go and purchase

26:58

. They make their own , they

27:00

buy in different volumes , different quantities , and

27:02

they can do that . So they have

27:05

a price with us , they invoice us

27:07

, they get paid quickly and

27:09

I think that's . The other aspect is cash flow within

27:12

the solar retail space is so

27:14

important , especially when we're talking solar

27:16

battery systems that could have an

27:20

asset value of $15,000

27:22

to $16,000 . You wanna make sure you're getting

27:24

that money back in because if you don't have the right terms

27:27

with your distributors , you're gonna be out of pocket

27:29

could be $100,000 every week until

27:32

the cash flow starts cycling . So

27:34

that's a big one . The other main one is

27:37

recurring revenue In

27:39

the solar retail space . You are chasing

27:41

the next sale to pay your salaries and

27:44

I think that's the hardest thing that every solar retailer

27:46

business owner goes through . We

27:48

are putting a $5,000 maintenance contract in every

27:51

home they install .

27:52

Oh , that period is that this is over a 10-year period

27:54

.

27:55

So it's the same job that they do today , but

27:57

they just don't get paid for it and what this

27:59

does is creates a book , a value

28:01

of their business . So not only is there money

28:04

or cash flow coming in , there's actually an enterprise

28:06

value . If we see in the solar

28:08

industry a few acquisitions

28:12

happening here and there at the moment it's a very hot subject

28:14

. But the risk

28:16

the larger solar retailers have is they're

28:18

carrying a huge book of liabilities .

28:20

This could be 20 , 30,000 homes that

28:23

they have to Just to explain , it means

28:25

when you install 20,000 systems , you're

28:28

now potentially on the hook

28:30

for some of the warranty calls

28:32

because you can't just send them off to the manufacturer

28:34

. A lot of times you have to get involved

28:36

, which is valuable time . So if I

28:38

buy a solar company , then

28:40

, if they install a lot of crap , I

28:43

could actually , down the track , be in big trouble

28:45

because I'm spending all time running around . So

28:48

how is that going with NRN ? You're

28:51

paying the people for the maintenance work

28:53

that they haven't even done yet , because

28:56

you've given them a recurring income . What

28:58

every month ? Yeah , every month .

29:02

So we see this as a book value too , like it's there

29:04

, it lasts for 10 years and it

29:07

will just increase their enterprise value

29:09

if an acquisition

29:11

is a strategy within that business down the line

29:14

. And I think this is

29:16

a game changer for the industry and

29:18

I think this is why we've had a really

29:20

interesting reaction from the solar retailer

29:22

industry around our product . There was

29:25

a lot of too good to be true

29:27

when it first started talking

29:29

to the industry , but once we were

29:31

very transparent with the cash flow and

29:33

who earns what , we

29:35

started to gain a lot of trust and , yeah

29:37

, we are genuinely getting a lot of interest .

29:39

Look , I'm gonna ask a tricky question here now , because

29:41

batteries do sometimes only last seven

29:43

, eight , nine years . Okay , if they really

29:46

had the crap kicked out of it

29:48

and they were installed in a hotspot and all

29:50

that . So let's make it year eight and

29:53

I've got a malfunctioning inverter , and

29:55

also the battery seems to be on its last leg

29:57

. Who's paying for that replacement

29:59

? It's us . So that's not coming out

30:01

of the residual from the solar retailer

30:03

.

30:04

No , not at all . We've backed back everything

30:06

on our warranties for the manufacturers . We

30:09

also only charge the energy sector

30:11

at the usable capacity of a battery

30:13

. So you might have a 16

30:15

kilowatt hour battery installed today , but by

30:17

year eight there might only be nine kilowatt

30:20

hours . That's usable because we have a degradation . We've

30:24

budgeted all that Like . It's all within our numbers

30:26

. So if , but then again , if

30:28

it comes with it under a certain threshold we've

30:30

it falls into a warranty claim and then I

30:32

guess that's what we have in place .

30:34

Right . Could you give me an example where

30:36

you have added actually really additional

30:39

, extra value to a solar retailer ?

30:41

Yeah , definitely , I think , conversion

30:43

rates . So we , one of our partners , were

30:45

converting maybe 40% of just a

30:47

customer receiving a proposal

30:49

. So that's just saying an estimate . This is how much you'll

30:52

save to actually signing up .

30:53

So with 10 customers

30:56

leads , he sells normally four

30:58

.

30:58

Yeah , so that's so , so so you

31:00

know , I think standard with the industry we see between

31:02

15 and 20% . So if we think

31:04

about a double of that is is a huge

31:07

factor of reducing the cost of cost

31:10

of acquisition , which I think a cost of cost

31:13

of acquisition is a big metric or a cost

31:15

point within the solar space Leads

31:18

from us . So we , we work with energy retailers

31:20

. We

31:22

, we , we have the opportunity to have customers

31:25

that come through energy retailers and won't have access

31:27

to this plan . We're providing these straight

31:30

up to the solar retailers to be able to access

31:32

in this new market Talk . Go

31:34

on to the next point about new market . Like , every

31:37

solar retailer in Australia today is

31:39

targeting the $6

31:42

million sorry , the 6 million homeowners

31:44

that we have in Australia . Everyone forget

31:46

about the 3.2 million renters that we have available

31:48

. Everyone doesn't focus on them , but it's such

31:51

a what I would call blue ocean that

31:53

I think we can offer to solar retailers . And

31:56

just to wrap up that phone a final point . The

31:58

biggest piece for me is that recurring

32:01

revenue . It's ironically

32:03

, you know we're all about sustainability

32:06

, but the solar retailer business model

32:08

is very challenging to be sustainable

32:10

and to be there tomorrow , because

32:13

we're always chasing the next sale and we're

32:15

always a race to the bottom . So I believe what we're offering

32:17

them is a very clear roadmap

32:19

to sustainability , because they have recurring revenue

32:21

and there's no race to the bottom .

32:23

Moving on to the energy retailer , which are also

32:25

the people that sent you the bills your distributors

32:27

, et cetera . What's in it ?

32:29

for them . We are so advanced in Australia

32:31

compared to the rest of the world with this

32:33

transition towards renewable

32:35

. Renewable is a variable

32:38

generation source , right . So

32:42

if we think about a coal-fired power station

32:44

, we call this as a baseline . It's

32:48

a base generation source where it's

32:50

just a flat line of generation . We

32:52

have variable factor . Now with the sun , when

32:54

it comes out , we get generation . So

32:57

the big factor for the energy retailers

32:59

is our market is

33:01

so volatile now and relying

33:04

on buying from market is

33:06

too risky . We had eight energy

33:08

retailers go bust last year in Australia . We

33:11

hit very volatile markets last May

33:13

or June it was and they were

33:15

all the majority were exposed to wholesale

33:17

market and just couldn't make it work . So

33:20

what's really critical for an energy retailer is having

33:22

the right hedge . Now I'm

33:25

explaining what that is . It's making sure

33:27

that there is a financial

33:29

contract behind them that doesn't

33:31

let them be too exposed

33:33

to the volatility of the energy market . Now

33:36

, whilst building a hedge

33:38

, having these assets

33:40

available , those rooftop and battery

33:42

systems that you can control physical

33:45

power to either be discharge

33:47

or charge , or however you do it you can actually

33:49

what you call start shaping your load . So

33:51

when a hedge is being

33:53

built , it always looks at what time you're using

33:56

power . The flatter the line , the better

33:58

it is for energy retailers . This is exactly

34:00

what we can do by providing

34:03

this solution to energy retailers . Now

34:05

maybe I'll take a little bit of a complicated no , I think

34:07

I .

34:07

actually . I think I got it , because

34:10

what you're basically saying is people

34:12

, there's the energy

34:15

generator , he sells the

34:17

power to the energy retailer who has

34:19

their book of clients . They

34:21

have to purchase it at the price

34:24

that the energy retailer sets

34:26

. When the energy prices in Europe

34:28

went up , gas

34:30

and other competing factors went up , which

34:32

meant the energy generators had to charge

34:35

more , the energy retailers

34:38

in between now couldn't charge

34:40

what was coming through the line to the end

34:42

customers because they had the existing contract . Now

34:45

, if they would actually have their own

34:47

creation capacity through the batteries

34:50

and the solar systems on roofs at

34:53

that point in time , they're minimizing their

34:55

exposure to sudden price fluctuations

34:58

. This is correct , did I get that ? Yeah , exactly

35:00

that . And also sometimes

35:02

we're in an auction system for

35:06

buying electricity and on a very

35:08

hot summer day when everybody turns on

35:10

the air con , it could suddenly cost you

35:12

$13 , $14 , a kilowatt

35:14

hour that you then have to sell back to

35:16

the customer at 40 cents , who still thinks

35:19

they're paying a lot . But you're losing

35:21

money by the millions If

35:23

you have for that half an hour to an hour where

35:25

the prices are sky high , if you

35:27

got your own little reservoir to send it

35:29

back down the line again

35:31

. You're minimizing risk .

35:32

This is it . Yeah , and this is where the

35:34

world of a virtual power

35:36

plant is becoming a

35:39

big thing at the moment . Our

35:41

learnings is that if we

35:43

relied on consumers so mums and dads

35:45

us to buy a solar or battery system

35:48

and we then say to them

35:50

, hey , we wanna use your system

35:52

in our virtual power plant , that mom and

35:54

dad wants an incentive right , they wanna get paid

35:56

for being part of that component , but

35:58

they're also conflicted

36:00

to what they can do . I'll give you

36:02

an example where , with our systems

36:05

, in September this year , we saw a lot of

36:07

negative market events in

36:09

Victoria so which

36:11

is the energy .

36:14

Somebody had to pay to actually keep

36:16

their power station on .

36:18

This is right , correct . So the generation needs

36:20

to basically pay the market to take the energy

36:23

.

36:23

Which is crazy .

36:24

And the way we're experiencing this . We've

36:26

started in South Australia , now it's starting to

36:28

see in Victoria , New South Wales and in Queensland , and

36:31

it's because of the influx of rooftop solar . So

36:33

in these instances the energy retailer

36:36

actually wants to turn off your export , but

36:38

if you are- .

36:40

But in the middle of an environmental crisis

36:42

, we're creating solar and then we say , oh , there's too

36:44

much . I mean those energy retailers

36:46

, why the hell didn't they build batteries ? I

36:49

mean , they saw the solar train coming for the last

36:51

15 years , where everybody asleep at the wheel .

36:53

Yeah , it's all about the commercial side too . It's

36:56

, you know everyone . Generally

36:59

you're making financial decisions , so what makes sense to

37:01

them .

37:01

You're trying to be nice to the energy retailers .

37:04

So look , the energy retailers' job isn't

37:06

around battery storage or

37:08

generation systems we have , you know

37:10

, there are the larger energy retailers that

37:12

are what we call gentailers generation of retailers

37:15

and they do have a . They have a mix

37:17

of different generation assets than they

37:19

retail .

37:19

So that's , some of them just sell electricity

37:21

and others generate and sell . This

37:24

is correct , so the large players like , let's say

37:26

, AGL or Origin

37:28

, they generate

37:30

and they sell , so they're in the both business . But

37:33

the smaller ones , let's make it Dodo or

37:35

something like that , they'll buy from the market . They're buy

37:37

just from the market . Yeah , correct .

37:38

Yeah , there is definitely a role

37:41

here for energy retailers , and this is why we

37:43

believe that we're providing them a really interesting solution

37:46

, because they know they need to participate

37:48

. Let's talk about , you know , the tier , three

37:50

or two tier retailers , the ones that are actually trying

37:52

to make a real big difference here as well . You

37:54

know , they don't have the balance sheet or

37:57

the backing to be able to go and buy large you

38:00

know , generation systems and batteries

38:02

and everything else .

38:03

Elon Musk would love to sell them a few , right

38:05

, but they had 500 million a pop . This

38:08

is it .

38:09

You know , and but they they're focused on

38:11

spending their money on futures

38:13

of energy , on hedges , on making sure that they're

38:15

protected , to provide cheaper

38:17

pricing from the grid . Now what we're

38:19

trying to do is say , well , by installing a solar

38:21

and battery system on someone's home , you're

38:23

eliminating nearly 75% of

38:25

that need for that home from the grid of

38:28

power is actually generated

38:30

and stored behind the meter , and we use

38:32

the term behind the meter because

38:34

there's a meter that's the grid facing and everything

38:36

behind it is where the solar battery

38:38

is . So when a retailer

38:41

starts to assess their portfolio , they

38:43

can really take

38:45

three quarters of the

38:49

demand from the grid per home

38:51

that does join NRN and after

38:53

a while they'll start seeing a significant amount of benefits

38:55

, and there are . It's very clear in this dynamic

38:58

market that a retailer is better

39:00

off with our solution than

39:02

it is buying energy traditionally through

39:05

the different hedging strategies that

39:07

are available in market today , and that's because

39:09

it's the timing is right

39:11

. Like we went , we're in the middle of an energy crisis

39:13

right now , and that's why we have increased costs

39:16

. The cost

39:18

of the sun hasn't increased . On

39:21

July , the first this year , it's still

39:23

the same cost . In fact , the panel prices

39:25

have become cheaper . It's

39:28

actually going all in the right direction to make

39:30

sure that retailers are

39:32

getting more involved behind the meter

39:35

with the customers and providing these systems .

39:37

So you tell me I put a solar system on my

39:39

roof . I don't own it , you own it . That

39:42

power out of the solar system that's

39:44

coming out is going to be cheaper to me . So

39:46

I save 800 to 1000 bucks a year

39:48

and maybe down the track even

39:50

more . Now

39:53

let's say I have an area

39:55

where there's occasionally blackouts . Does my

39:57

battery in my solar system also give me blackout

39:59

protection 100% ? So I get

40:01

that as an extra benefit ? Is it so

40:04

I can actually pretend I paid for it , I can

40:06

brag to the neighbors , I can look like smart

40:08

, I get a show lower bill and I have blackout protection

40:10

. Yeah , all right . Does that mean you

40:13

kind of locking me in for 10 , 15 years

40:15

in a contract ? I can't

40:17

buy the solar system out ? What happens if I sell

40:19

my house ? What are those kind of constraints

40:21

? I mean there must be little asterisks

40:24

and little things that are linked

40:26

to it .

40:26

You can buy the system at any time .

40:28

We want to make that flexibility

40:31

there , but at a realistic price , or you

40:33

put a 50% margin on it .

40:34

No , not at all At the same price . You would go and buy a

40:37

system for a market that would be

40:39

that price from day one , and every month

40:41

it just gets cheaper and cheaper and cheaper . Right , because

40:43

we think that's fair . It's been used , so

40:45

you're going to pay a cheaper rate for it

40:47

. We provide that visibility upfront

40:50

from day one . So when there's an agreement put

40:52

in front of you , you know at

40:54

year five this is how much the system is going to be

40:56

worth if I sell my house .

40:59

So if you do sell the house , you can't

41:02

really give it to the new you can .

41:04

So this is the other part is that you can notvate

41:06

that agreement whenever you want . We charge a

41:08

small $40 admin fee is that immaterial

41:11

, really ? But we will notvate that over to the

41:13

new owners or , if it

41:15

land or situation , would be the tenant to

41:17

basically say that we are able to look

41:20

after that system and manage it on

41:22

your behalf and you're going to use

41:24

one of our energy retailer partners

41:26

, and that's really key is that we want to

41:28

get the energy sector to pay for it . So our

41:30

job , our responsibility , is to make

41:32

sure that we can bring as many energy retailers

41:35

or utilities to the party as

41:37

possible to give you as much choices you want as

41:39

a consumer .

41:39

So let's say , after year five I want to sell

41:41

my house . I now got the option

41:43

to give the new purchaser

41:46

and owner the option to move

41:48

into your arrangement and he gets

41:50

a lower bill , or if he says , oh

41:52

look , I'm not the guy of paperwork and this , and that

41:55

I then purchased the system

41:57

at the value at the time . Given

41:59

that possibly I sell the house for many hundreds

42:01

of thousands of dollars , that little , relatively

42:03

small amount wouldn't be , that much Plus

42:05

it possibly would add value to the home anyway

42:07

.

42:08

Yeah , correct , we actually had someone that joined

42:11

us , got a system with the intent

42:13

that he's going to sell the house in the next few months , and

42:15

the whole reason was that it cost them nothing

42:17

. They wanted to add more value

42:20

to the home and they believe that the value

42:22

of buying that system was going to be smaller

42:24

than the value added to

42:27

the property , so they would make money from spending nothing

42:29

. Very smart , very savvy , but yeah , that's

42:31

a .

42:31

So basically got themselves a nice front yard for

42:34

nothing , meaning the house to any buyer

42:36

looked now more substantial , correct

42:38

? Oh , very

42:41

smart so basically

42:43

, my marketing would go to people who want to sell their

42:45

house . It's a solar

42:47

system on the roof . Looking at 60

42:49

million bucks ?

42:50

Yeah , this is it and look I think

42:52

this also goes to you know we think

42:54

about the amount of new builds

42:57

that are being built every year

42:59

too . I think this is a great way

43:01

of building developers wanting to sell more homes

43:03

, or people selling homes

43:05

is adding solar and battery

43:08

and to the home , and I think that does

43:10

appeal to the new market

43:12

that's out there .

43:13

Now , after 10 years , when the whole

43:15

thing is kind of getting

43:17

towards the end of the sign up and

43:19

the batteries obviously getting a bit older , do

43:22

I own the solar system then ? Or do I have

43:24

to still pay you out , or what's the story there

43:27

?

43:27

So you got a few options . You can pay

43:30

it out . There is a wall called residual

43:32

values for a small amount of value , and

43:34

it would be in between $1,000 to $2,000

43:37

at the end if you did want to own it . We

43:39

didn't put it at $0 at the

43:41

end because we don't actually feel like we

43:44

should give you something that doesn't

43:46

work anymore . You know , I think it's

43:48

quite important to say no

43:50

, let's go again , let's keep saving you this

43:52

money every year . And we're going

43:54

to replace the battery , we're going to replace the inverter

43:56

. It's great for our solar retailers

43:59

. They get another piece of work and I think

44:01

that's about the sustainable model and

44:04

as a consumer , you're just benefiting the same rates

44:06

that you're paying now . Again , it costs you nothing . You

44:08

just get upgraded your system so you could get the bragging

44:10

rights again , or you add more value to your property and

44:13

basically you go again

44:15

, and that's the whole goal . So

44:17

the reason we have 10 years in there is it's

44:19

too scary to give a few 20-year

44:21

contract or an evergreen contract . We need to have

44:23

a term , but we try to enable

44:25

as much flexibility as we possibly

44:27

can to make sure that we're not

44:30

locking you in .

44:31

But I mean a lot of solar systems do have 25-year

44:33

warranties on the panel . So if you put

44:35

a new inverter in a new

44:37

battery . You should be really operating

44:39

quite well Correct .

44:41

Yeah , exactly that .

44:42

Okay , let's say you start me on 20

44:44

cents a kilowatt hour instead of my

44:46

35 to 40 . And

44:49

the

44:51

second year or so the energy retailer suddenly

44:53

decides , oh , this is too good

44:55

to be true and they whack me up to 35

44:57

. Have I got any protection that actually

44:59

that better rate will stay with me ?

45:02

Yeah , really good question . Look , there's . This

45:05

is why we don't believe that having

45:07

tying you into

45:10

one like energy contract

45:12

is the right way and we go refer back

45:14

to a power purchase agreement or anything like that

45:16

, and we think having multiple energy

45:19

retailers will create a competitive landscape

45:21

. So you're able then to to actually

45:23

assess that if your rates gone up by

45:25

35% , let's just say through

45:28

our solution , then here's the marketplace . Go and

45:30

have a look at other retailers and what they're offering

45:32

, that that include the solar battery

45:34

. So I think that's really key . There are some

45:36

retailers we partnered with . Our

45:38

first retailer was Diamond Energy . Diamond

45:40

Energy have actually locked in their rates . So

45:43

they've said as long as you stay with us , one of

45:45

the rates that you use from your solar and battery , we're going to lock

45:47

it in Evergreen , which is a which

45:49

is a really interesting way about this whole

45:51

carrot , not the stick of

45:54

incentivizing a customer to stay with

45:56

them .

45:57

So some of the energy retailers will actually give

45:59

you a fixed rate for the total period

46:01

of the contract . While others might

46:03

have some flexibility , as

46:06

the market goes up and down and

46:09

you will then down the track , there will be

46:11

a number of energy retailers I can choose

46:13

from .

46:15

There's always that there will be a number . There's quite

46:17

a lot that want to participate and

46:19

join and you know we we're

46:21

aiming to have at least seven energy

46:24

plans available by this time

46:26

next year , which is December next year .

46:28

Okay . Now some people actually

46:31

call solar middle class welfare

46:33

, because what happens

46:35

is the rebate that everybody

46:37

gets to buys a solar system adds

46:39

to the cost of the electricity price , because

46:41

that's how it's been recovered , but

46:43

the only benefit that you

46:46

can get from the rebate

46:48

is if you own a house , so

46:50

the poorer people who are in rental

46:52

situations actually in

46:54

this part of society subsidize

46:57

the more rich people . When it comes to solar

47:00

, most people don't really realize that , so if

47:02

you struggle with your electricity bill , it's

47:05

only a small amount , but one part

47:07

of the cost is actually for you purchasing

47:11

, indirectly , a solar system for somebody in

47:13

the rich suburbs . It's

47:15

crazy . Are you in that same game , then

47:17

, or you're actually in the counter

47:19

game in abling the more poorer

47:22

people to access solar ?

47:23

How does it work , it's making sure it's available for

47:25

everyone and , just to touch that point , it's

47:28

around $200 a year of your energy bill

47:30

. Is paying towards these rebates

47:32

that are going to paying for those who can afford

47:34

it ? No

47:36

, look , for us , it's about democratizing

47:39

. We really believe that those that

47:42

are in need should have

47:44

equal access to rooftop solar

47:46

and cheaper energy rates , but relying

47:48

on the energy market is only

47:50

going to get worse . We

47:53

experienced a 25% spike . We're going to

47:55

experience , I believe , at least another

47:57

10% next year and

47:59

a few more years after , and

48:01

there's a lot of reasons why .

48:04

I mean , I tell you why we got the EV

48:06

. The grid actually is , at the moment , not

48:08

fit for purpose . The grid needs huge

48:10

investment . The solar farms

48:12

and the wind farms that's going to supply power

48:14

will be far , far away . The transmission

48:17

lines have to be built and what we

48:19

got right now is also getting older . I've

48:22

hear of people discussing electricity

48:24

prices going forward , which could be . We

48:26

think it's expensive at $0.45 , $0.60

48:29

, $0.65 , $0.70

48:31

. At that point in time , your

48:34

system will really make good presents

48:36

, it will .

48:37

The sun isn't charging us more money and

48:40

your spot on , like energy costs will

48:42

increase . Just want to refer

48:44

on that on a point 50 to 55%

48:46

of your energy bill is paying for the

48:48

poles and wires and the networks

48:51

. We need them . We need the

48:53

wire that goes to the power and comes to our house to connect

48:55

to the grid , but there's , with

48:59

electric vehicles going to play , there needs to

49:01

be upgrades to substations and different transformers

49:03

and the , I guess , the overall infrastructure

49:06

. So , yeah , those costs are going to increase . But

49:08

just going back to to

49:10

people that can't afford it , the

49:13

cheapest way of them reducing their bills

49:15

by having energy direct

49:18

, generated directly on their house , if it's the

49:20

renter , if it's a

49:22

very , if it's owned by the government or however

49:24

this is . This is a space that

49:26

we really feel passionate about and that we can help

49:29

because there is no cost . Someone that

49:31

has a $5 million home or someone's

49:33

home that is $200,000

49:36

, they should . Their cost or their

49:38

access to energy should be equal . Maybe

49:41

some debate that the $5 million home should pay more

49:44

, more cost of energy , but they can

49:46

buy a solar system the other way

49:48

. We really want to help and that's something we can , we

49:50

can support with .

49:51

Now let's say I'm a tenant , yeah

49:53

, I'm feeling the cost of living pressure

49:55

, yep , and I hear about

49:58

NRN . Could I then

50:00

approach my landlord and introduce him to

50:02

NRN ?

50:02

Yeah , definitely .

50:04

Do you talk to the landlord and explain it

50:06

all , or how does it work ?

50:07

We do . It's definitely a little bit like

50:09

challenging and the reason it's challenging

50:11

is there's multiple stakeholders within within

50:14

this relationship . But we we have had renters

50:16

come to us and we've engaged with the landlord . As

50:18

long as the landlord is , they , they recognize

50:20

there's no cost to them , they recognize that the the

50:23

tenant is more than willing to use the

50:25

participating energy retailers , then

50:27

there is no there's there's no issue Like

50:29

the tenant's going to save money , it's going to increase

50:31

the value of that landlord's home and there is no cost

50:33

for that landlord .

50:34

But what happens if that tenant moves out

50:36

, then the new tenant has to actually move

50:38

into that contract as a as a condition

50:41

, isn't it ?

50:41

Yeah , that's correct . So that's where the little bit of complexity

50:44

comes into it . Yeah , there

50:46

are ways and we see a future where

50:48

we could eliminate that and that's something

50:50

we're working on and hopefully in the next three to

50:52

four years we we won't actually require those

50:55

innovations or contracts , but for the

50:57

moment yes , they need a son and new

50:59

contract .

50:59

But then again , if I'm a tenant and I move into

51:01

the house and one of the conditions

51:04

of the house is that the electricity bill is lower

51:06

than in the other place , it's

51:08

probably not that hard to convince you to

51:10

go there .

51:11

No , exactly exactly that , and I got

51:13

back up as well , correct ? Exactly

51:17

that . So , yeah , there's a few different ways of doing it . The

51:19

renter market is definitely a challenging one , but

51:22

it's a it's a , it's a blue ocean , because

51:24

it's challenging , and I think that's what . That's

51:27

what we get excited about . It's like how do we solve the

51:29

problems that haven't been solved yet ?

51:31

No , I mean solar . In the past , for Rentus has not

51:33

been accessible . If you make it accessible

51:35

and give benefits to the lower socio-economic

51:38

people , I'm I'd say

51:40

the politicians will be the drum to your door

51:42

. Yeah , no , definitely .

51:44

And it has to be a collective effort . Everything

51:46

we do is collective

51:48

. We have we have four

51:50

stakeholders that work with us to make

51:52

sure this works . We have people , we have investors

51:54

who buy the systems . They , they , they work

51:57

very closely with us With the energy retires that build the product

51:59

, with the solar retires that install it and with

52:01

the customers that have the access to cheaper

52:03

rates . Every , every

52:05

participant , every stakeholder has a role

52:07

to play to make this work . And if

52:09

we think about the politicians , or you

52:11

know what can we , how can they help the transition

52:14

? They can really get involved here about

52:16

helping all those stakeholders

52:18

within our supply chain and make their

52:20

benefits even more attractive , which will drive

52:22

more demand .

52:24

It's kind of funny really , because

52:26

everybody of the four stakeholders

52:28

you just mentioned is in

52:30

a win-win-win situation .

52:31

Everyone is in a win-win situation .

52:32

I actually haven't met many products

52:35

where there isn't much of a downside

52:37

. No , which is possibly your biggest

52:39

problem , because people go . Sounds too good

52:41

to be true . That's it , yeah , correct . I'll

52:45

give you a lower electricity bill . I'm

52:47

not a door knocker . Yeah , I'm a person who's

52:49

promising the world . I'm actually generally put

52:51

in a real system on your roof . It's

52:54

a good quality . I will maintain it

52:56

and you save money

52:58

.

52:59

Correct , but it's and it's because we

53:02

we govern all that right . We know

53:04

how much a customer's saving , we know how much a retailer

53:06

is making from it , we know how much of a sole retailer

53:08

is gaining from it , we know how much investors are getting

53:10

. So we have a duty to make sure there is a

53:13

very stable , fair

53:16

return for everyone , or a benefit

53:18

for everyone financially , and that's

53:20

our responsibility . So we we've now hit

53:22

that point where every stakeholder has

53:24

a return or a benefit . Let's

53:26

just call it and it's . It's

53:29

sufficient , it's good enough , it's great , and

53:31

I think there are other factors that would improve

53:33

this over time . Quick question .

53:35

I mean you're saying the

53:37

customer is benefiting because they get cheaper electricity

53:39

, the energy retailer is benefiting because

53:41

they got more security . Now in the volatile

53:44

market the investors who

53:46

purchase the system in the first place are benefiting

53:49

because there's a return . But

53:51

you're really depending on the very

53:53

volatile Australian electricity

53:55

market because what you're

53:57

really doing is you're charging

54:00

indirectly for

54:02

the reduction of that volatility

54:05

and the more high level of security . But

54:07

if , for whatever reason , one day that whole

54:09

you know flexibility

54:12

of having to pay big bucks in an auction

54:14

system for electricity on a hot day if

54:17

that suddenly gets eliminated one day , maybe

54:19

with huge batteries out there , doesn't

54:21

your model at that point in time not really work anymore ?

54:24

Not , not when we consider what the cost of

54:26

your power is . Going back to

54:29

my comment previously , the cost of power

54:31

is a majority of

54:33

the , the poles and wires and the networks . There

54:36

is a um . You

54:39

mean bringing the solar farm all the

54:41

way from wherever .

54:43

Bathurst all here that cost you

54:47

don't necessarily need . If two thirds

54:49

of the power is generated

54:52

locally , then you actually cutting

54:55

that middleman out and that's

54:57

the saving that you can pass on . Is this ?

54:58

this is it , and we don't you know we don't view this as we're trying

55:00

to cut out the networks . We

55:03

want to . We want to work further with the networks . I think they've

55:05

got a um . They've got a big job to do in

55:07

the next decade to make sure we

55:09

can keep the lights on and there's a good balance within our grid , and

55:11

that's going to require a significant amount of investment . Um

55:15

and that that that in in a way , that's

55:17

where your energy bill is going right now

55:19

. You're paying for the investments of the infrastructure two

55:21

thirds of that . So

55:24

if we think about if the energy market was zero dollars , there is still a benefit here

55:28

, because the cost of the infrastructure of

55:30

getting energy to your home is actually really expensive and

55:34

uh and that's . You know that's

55:36

, that's part of being in a very big country and you know that's something we

55:38

have to deal with Now

55:40

.

55:40

let's say , um , I'm back wearing

55:42

my end customer hat and I've got two 10

55:45

year olds and

55:47

I'm dreaming about an EV , but I can't afford it yet . But I hear there's

55:49

a model coming out

55:52

that's going to be affordable in two years time . I hit Tesla is coming down

55:54

with a $30,000 car . Um

55:56

, and how do you size my

55:58

system now

56:00

? Do you size it

56:02

for my teenage daughters in four years time and

56:04

the fact that I'm going to have an EV in four years ? Or

56:07

are you giving me a small system now and

56:09

then suddenly I'm not going to have enough ?

56:11

Yeah , good question . So we think about not having enough . There's

56:14

a ? There's , we size it based on today's

56:16

usage profile , um of the generation

56:19

size of the solar system . Um

56:21

, we are getting to a point

56:23

there is the cost of energy during the daytime

56:25

is very , very , very cheap

56:28

. Um , meaning that that you

56:31

know , having a very large solar system doesn't

56:33

actually benefit anyone down the line . Do

56:35

you use it ? Go back to your question . If someone

56:37

bought an electric car and they load was to increase

56:39

or their usage was to increase , sorry , um

56:42

, we could actually increase the battery size , so

56:44

we could be charging the batteries

56:46

from the grid during the daytime whilst the solar

56:48

is coming into , um and in the

56:50

electricity is cheap . When the electricity

56:52

is cheap , to then benefit the

56:54

uh , uh

56:56

charging at night , at night time , correct

56:58

. Um , we're actually running

57:01

a pilot right now in South Australia which

57:03

is battery only . So there's , this is for

57:05

homes that can't put solar on too

57:07

much shade or not have a roof . Um

57:09

, we are trialling the piece of putting a battery

57:11

on the side of your wall and then being able to charge

57:14

it from the grid during the daytime because they have so much

57:16

you know , so much solar . We spoke

57:18

about negative events and where you

57:20

know they , the retailer can take benefit of this too

57:22

, and then the customer doesn't have to pay

57:24

these really expensive peak rates . And I think

57:26

this is where Australia is getting to

57:29

, where the cost of energy in the evening is

57:31

going to be so high that you

57:33

need to work out , you know to , to

57:35

use energy at different times of the day because

57:37

of the the factors that are happening

57:39

with the nugget .

57:40

So what you're saying is because there's a lot of solar generated

57:42

in the middle of the day , our manufacturing

57:44

has slowed down . We don't have anywhere for

57:47

it to put . We need more battery

57:49

capacity . You put a battery

57:51

on the house by the electricity when

57:53

it's cheap and then sell

57:55

it to them back at night , but

57:57

at a lower price that they would have to

57:59

pay from the energy retailer . Yeah

58:02

, you've been pretty smart

58:04

about this . Yeah , we've been . Uh , it's all

58:07

you , or is that a lot of team ?

58:08

I've got an amazing team . Uh , look at it , I

58:10

think it's . There is so many problems

58:12

facing us within the energy industry

58:15

. It needs , it needs innovators

58:17

, it needs problem solvers to look at these in isolation

58:19

and trial things . And I think you know

58:21

we haven't been scared of trialing . We've

58:23

trialled public EV charging stations

58:25

. We've tried just general EV charging

58:27

, solar and battery , hot water systems . We're

58:30

trialing a few things here and there and I think all of these

58:32

we call this DER , distributed

58:34

energy resources , and they all have a role to play

58:36

in the future of energy . And

58:39

that's , you know , we . That's the

58:41

space that we're working in to to really help

58:43

the retailer , energy

58:45

retailer have a cheaper cost of supply , which

58:47

means cheaper energy to the customer resulting

58:50

in cheaper bills to the end user . But how would

58:52

you ?

58:52

describe how you influence the

58:54

evolution of the energy sector .

58:59

By the energy energy sector

59:01

getting more involved behind the meter

59:03

. Um , behind the meter

59:05

meaning anything from where your meter

59:08

is to the grid , anything happens behind it

59:10

. The energy retailer today doesn't get involved

59:12

from what happens behind that meter . They

59:14

need to in the future and we

59:16

are influencing that by giving the tools to

59:19

the energy retailers to do it . Now , I

59:21

, we , we

59:24

are in such a energy

59:26

crisis we're in , we're transitioning

59:28

to renewable , which is great , it's the right thing to do , but

59:31

we are going to be troubled by

59:33

these random peak

59:35

of demands of energy at different

59:37

times . If a retailer has no control of that

59:39

, they won't they , they won't have

59:41

a business . They need to do more uh to

59:43

be able to see what's happening in their customer's

59:45

home and I won't go to , it's

59:47

not too like in the home and to private

59:50

. It's purely around managing the

59:53

rooftop solar , managing the battery , maybe

59:55

managing your hot water system . Now

59:57

, these are probably the most you know

59:59

ease , accessible systems

1:00:01

that they can access , to , control and make sure that

1:00:03

you have cheaper , cheaper bills . So

1:00:06

, yeah , how we want to influence it is given the

1:00:08

tools to the energy retailers . Um

1:00:10

, just on a really important note , we

1:00:12

have we have 21 gigawatts of rooftop

1:00:14

solar uh within our grid . Yeah

1:00:17

, that's , yeah , that's a

1:00:19

huge amount of of of generation

1:00:21

. Um , that's just running

1:00:23

around , it's not controlled , not controlled

1:00:25

, no one's managing it , and we talk

1:00:27

about the infamous duck curve

1:00:30

that's just getting bigger and bigger which means

1:00:32

in the middle of the day , we got all these solar .

1:00:34

There's no use for it often , um

1:00:37

, that's why the feeding tariffs are going down

1:00:39

.

1:00:39

Yeah .

1:00:40

And , and it just means we need more batteries .

1:00:41

We need more batteries and we need to control this generation

1:00:44

. It's great We've got the generation . Um

1:00:46

, we need to get better at forecasting when the generation's

1:00:48

happening . I think there's some incredible companies out there

1:00:50

doing that at the moment . Um , a cloud

1:00:53

passes over a whole city . All of a sudden , your generation

1:00:55

just falls off . So there's a lot of work

1:00:57

that's happening there . It's about more at how you control

1:00:59

it and controlling you have to

1:01:02

be able to have that . I

1:01:04

guess it's a battery , it's the . The battery is

1:01:06

the arbitrage piece . It's so you

1:01:08

can stop the energy in that , in that battery . You can

1:01:10

then push it out later on , and I think that's that's

1:01:12

the game changer that's just about to happen . Um

1:01:15

, and that's why we hear about virtual

1:01:18

power plants and all these other .

1:01:20

Yeah , I guess yeah , but

1:01:23

to heavenly let the genie already out of the bottle by installing

1:01:25

this three and a half million solar

1:01:27

systems without any reference

1:01:30

back to the grid . I mean , solar

1:01:32

has really been sitting on the grid creating

1:01:35

problems for it , but haven't really

1:01:37

contributed , in its ability to be controlled

1:01:40

, to the future solutions . Correct

1:01:42

, and the government is still giving the rebate out to

1:01:44

make it worse .

1:01:45

I don't think it's a government here that

1:01:47

are really , you know , responsible

1:01:49

. To be honest , I think we've , we

1:01:52

, we , the industry , hang on , hang on , hang on , at

1:01:55

the bottom part , the government is supplying

1:01:57

the rebate .

1:01:58

The rebate was the result that we

1:02:00

have so many solar systems , but there

1:02:02

was never a condition attached to

1:02:04

it that you should maybe buy

1:02:06

a battery as well or have ability

1:02:09

to control the solar system . So

1:02:11

now we've got the electricity being generated

1:02:13

at the wrong time of the day and

1:02:16

the whole thing is in a big mess . Why

1:02:18

isn't the government's fault ? Come on , they

1:02:21

gave the money in the first place . Yeah .

1:02:24

I think it's a , it's an overall , it's

1:02:26

an overall piece of of the

1:02:28

, the targets that we have in Australia and and

1:02:30

you know we have the clean energy regulator

1:02:33

that have designed the STCs , the small scale

1:02:35

technology certificates that enabled customers

1:02:37

to buy these assets , these , the roof

1:02:39

top , so cheaper Battery

1:02:42

technology wasn't where it is right now

1:02:44

. Five years ago , you know three

1:02:46

years ago . So so I think there's been a development

1:02:48

of technology just to catch up , but

1:02:52

there is no excuse that right

1:02:54

now that that has to change . We have the technology

1:02:56

, it's there , it's built , it works . We

1:02:59

have , we have good policies in place , I believe , of

1:03:01

of being able to subsidize certain systems . There

1:03:04

could be more sure . But , someone

1:03:06

has to pay for that tax . You know there's coming

1:03:08

out of our tax . Money is coming out of our energy

1:03:10

bills . As I quoted earlier , $200

1:03:12

of your energy bill is paying for a

1:03:14

, for a carbon , for , for the STC or

1:03:16

for the this in the CER . So

1:03:19

I think that there's , there are frameworks

1:03:22

in place . What I disagree fully

1:03:24

is that we rely on people to buy it themselves

1:03:26

. The energy is not an individual

1:03:29

commodity , it is a collective

1:03:31

. We . We didn't build a power

1:03:33

station for one home . We built a power station

1:03:36

for 10 to 1000s

1:03:38

, hundreds of 1000s of home . We don't

1:03:40

need to look at renewable being about one

1:03:42

home in isolation . That's the . That's a mistake

1:03:44

. I believe that we did and

1:03:47

I really believe that's why NRN's

1:03:49

business model is here today . I , I think

1:03:51

we're going to other countries can look at us

1:03:53

and go let's not do what

1:03:55

Australia did over the last decade

1:03:57

, because they have really we've , we've

1:03:59

got a big problem with our grid .

1:04:01

So are you kind of as a company , advocating

1:04:04

for a green energy

1:04:06

solution and for more sustainability and

1:04:08

how you do that ?

1:04:09

Yeah , this is what's it's

1:04:11

. Going back to the word collective Energy

1:04:15

. Retailers need to be advocating

1:04:17

further , more about the transition to renewable

1:04:19

, but they've got bigger problems on their plate right

1:04:22

now to try and work out

1:04:24

how they can , how they can , provide a cheaper

1:04:26

cost of power so they can keep a customer

1:04:29

base . So , going back to advocating

1:04:31

green energy solutions , like we are going

1:04:33

to the energy retailers and here is a solution it's

1:04:36

turnkey for you , it's packed up , it's

1:04:38

it's in a nice little box presented to your customer

1:04:40

and we're going to make sure that that is it's . It's working

1:04:43

for you financially , it's working for everyone

1:04:45

and you

1:04:47

know , I , I , they're

1:04:49

not just becoming an insurance broker . They're actually

1:04:51

part of this , part of this transition

1:04:53

with us .

1:04:54

But most people hate the energy retailer . So

1:04:56

you're trying to make the energy retailer like becoming

1:04:59

nice again .

1:05:00

Well , they have a job . They have a very

1:05:02

important job . If we want to continue , if

1:05:04

we want to get electric cars , if we want to

1:05:07

go home and turn the lights on , we need an energy retailer

1:05:09

and I don't think that we should be working against

1:05:11

them . We should be working with them , but collectively

1:05:13

. They should be working closer with their , with

1:05:16

their customer base . This

1:05:18

is why we have a strong belief of it's

1:05:20

. It's a carrot approach and not

1:05:22

a stick approach . The retailer shouldn't be sending

1:05:25

contracts out , locking people in not

1:05:27

at all . It's incentivizing

1:05:29

people to stay with that company because

1:05:32

they are doing the right thing , and I think that's something

1:05:34

we're advocating for and we are providing for

1:05:36

energy retailers .

1:05:37

Right . So how is your business

1:05:39

model in some way kind

1:05:41

of matching what's emerging in that whole energy

1:05:43

sector ?

1:05:44

I think it's , it's complimenting and

1:05:47

hopefully it should accelerate . Everything is happening

1:05:49

in the energy sector . We

1:05:51

think about the future of energy . The

1:05:54

future of energy isn't just I

1:05:56

generate power , I put it into the

1:05:58

, into the poles and wires , and I

1:06:00

turn on the light and I've delivered it . I

1:06:03

mean the . The future of energy is using

1:06:05

AI , using optimization

1:06:09

algorithms , to

1:06:11

make sure that our

1:06:13

grid is being powered

1:06:16

effectively , Our homes are receiving

1:06:18

the power it needs to , and , and all that

1:06:20

technology again is there today . So

1:06:22

you know , we , we're bringing that forward

1:06:25

, we're we're we're bringing it to an energy

1:06:27

retailer and giving them full control

1:06:29

of these rooftop solar and battery systems

1:06:31

that they've never had before .

1:06:33

Right . So when you walk into an energy

1:06:35

retailer and actually tell them about NRN

1:06:38

, how are you being received ? Are

1:06:40

they seeing you as a competition ? Are they seeing

1:06:42

? Oh , thank God , you know , I was waiting

1:06:44

for you . I mean , what's the reception

1:06:46

?

1:06:47

Yeah , at the beginning it was like this

1:06:49

is a little bit bizarre , but I think it's . It's

1:06:51

Proof is always in the pudding . Thankfully

1:06:54

, we , we , uh , diamond energy , was , was

1:06:56

fantastic . It is still very fantastic

1:06:58

to work with and and was . It's

1:07:01

always been a leader within this , this transition

1:07:03

towards renewable . So I think now

1:07:05

others are starting to see this and started to go

1:07:07

. We need to think outside the box

1:07:09

, because we're just selling energy like

1:07:11

everyone else , um . So , yeah , it's

1:07:13

being really well received and we're excited to see

1:07:15

what we can do in the next year .

1:07:17

So you've been going for a while Um any

1:07:20

customer success stories .

1:07:21

Yeah , quite a few Um

1:07:24

like and and when we , when we first

1:07:27

, when we first started to go

1:07:29

through our proof of concept stages , we got

1:07:31

a different , quite different range

1:07:33

of customers . So , from , uh

1:07:35

, a customer that , yeah

1:07:38

, the homeowner really

1:07:40

challenging the cost of living , um , we

1:07:42

then have rentals that joined . We then have the

1:07:45

$3 million house that , that that

1:07:47

came on board and some businesses . Now

1:07:49

, out of all those different backgrounds

1:07:52

, everyone sees a different uh

1:07:54

reason to why they , they joined us . But

1:07:57

the success has been really , really good

1:07:59

. Um , you know , those who

1:08:01

are going for a cost of living crisis to save 800

1:08:03

bucks a year is is fantastic , like

1:08:05

, it's like , why wouldn't you do that ? You're not using

1:08:08

the space in your roof , you're , you're

1:08:10

increasing the value of your home , no brainer

1:08:12

. But then again , those who you know , the

1:08:14

, the business uh , that

1:08:16

did join us . They , uh , they've saved

1:08:18

nearly , they're saving up towards $8,000

1:08:21

a year and they spent nothing

1:08:23

on the system . They are using

1:08:25

65% of renewable now within

1:08:27

that , and they are very , very happy

1:08:29

. I guess partners of ours and

1:08:32

we're looking forward to getting more and more businesses on board

1:08:34

as well .

1:08:34

Not only do I save on my electricity bill , but

1:08:37

if NRN rolls out a thousand

1:08:39

systems or 10,000 system in a particular

1:08:42

region , then you're also creating extra

1:08:44

stability to the grid . So would

1:08:46

that also mean that maybe future electricity

1:08:48

price rises will be a bit less , because there's

1:08:51

actually less need for grid expansions

1:08:54

?

1:08:54

Look , we , we , we would love to think

1:08:57

that would be the way forward .

1:08:59

Um but you've got to be really big

1:09:01

.

1:09:01

by then we have to really big and I think

1:09:03

the , the , the networks are

1:09:05

looking at this . The most networks

1:09:07

now have a a future

1:09:09

energy team who are exploring

1:09:12

what different options are there instead of just spending

1:09:14

more money on upgrades and upgrades and

1:09:16

upgrades . Um , I don't think it's going

1:09:18

to um , it won't reduce the cost

1:09:21

because the the the money's already been spent on

1:09:23

the current infrastructure . Um , but hopefully

1:09:25

, uh , we would like to think that we could , uh

1:09:28

, we could save money down the line because you don't

1:09:30

need to buy the required infrastructure .

1:09:32

Right , wow , um

1:09:34

, are there some specific

1:09:37

improvements that you have as samples

1:09:39

where people have been able to put extra

1:09:41

infrastructure in or anything like

1:09:43

that ? Uh , because of the involvement

1:09:46

with NRN ? Um , little

1:09:48

hint , I'm thinking about the MTA and

1:09:50

their public charger , and stuff like that . So

1:09:53

, um , have you kind of had customers

1:09:55

where , because of them going with NRN , there

1:09:58

was actually a wider benefit to the wider community

1:10:00

?

1:10:00

Yeah , definitely so , as , as part of

1:10:03

one of our commercial customers was motor traders

1:10:05

association and being within the automobile

1:10:08

industry . Um , there is a , there

1:10:10

was a future where the automobile

1:10:12

industry is now collaborating with the energy

1:10:14

industry because of the uh , the adoption of electric

1:10:16

cars . Um , so we , we installed

1:10:18

a very large solar system , large battery , but we also

1:10:20

actually installed a public EV charging station

1:10:22

to charge cars from the

1:10:24

solar system . Yeah , like uh , and I think

1:10:26

this was this was a trial to understand

1:10:29

will a energy retailer

1:10:31

be comfortable licensing

1:10:33

a system like this from us and

1:10:35

an on charging cost then to

1:10:37

the users ? And it's been a hyper

1:10:40

success . We've , you know , we're

1:10:42

seeing above 12

1:10:44

to 15 charges a day on

1:10:47

that site and the public are just using

1:10:49

it . It's powered . You know , there's

1:10:51

a solar system that's on top , depending on the time of day

1:10:53

they're using it , the charge of the cars . It could be powered

1:10:55

by solar .

1:10:57

Or out of the battery if it's after

1:10:59

hours , correct yeah .

1:11:01

Yeah , there is still a grid demand

1:11:03

on site there , but yeah , I think

1:11:05

there's there are different ways that we're looking

1:11:07

now at , how we refer to looking

1:11:10

beyond just a solar and a battery

1:11:12

system , and I think this is going to really align with

1:11:14

our solar retailer partners , because that's that's

1:11:16

more work that they they're able to to to

1:11:19

create per customer that they get on board .

1:11:22

So if I , for example , now if I'm a car

1:11:24

yard , there's obviously a lot

1:11:26

of electric cars coming down the track

1:11:28

that I haven't really been thought even how

1:11:30

to incorporate all that . But I will

1:11:32

need , possibly electric charging stations

1:11:35

on my lot

1:11:37

. So if the more , if it worked

1:11:39

for the Motor Trade Association , it

1:11:41

could work for a lot of car yards , couldn't ?

1:11:43

it Is that one of your target markets ? It's

1:11:46

not a target . I think you know we

1:11:48

look at the market as it's every

1:11:50

, it's everyone . We need to democratize

1:11:52

, so you know , yes , they would

1:11:54

be more favorable of getting a charging

1:11:56

station than a

1:11:59

different type of business , but I think there's it's

1:12:01

just further options that we want to include within

1:12:03

our offering to end users .

1:12:06

But the MTA model was the charging

1:12:08

station also supplied without cost . That's

1:12:10

correct .

1:12:11

There was no .

1:12:11

So if I be a car yard , I suddenly

1:12:13

get my solar system , I get a battery , I

1:12:15

get my EV charger and I'm not out of

1:12:18

pocket , and do

1:12:20

I then make money out of the EV charger

1:12:22

that I charge my customers to charge , or is

1:12:24

that a complimentary thing at the MTA

1:12:26

at the moment ?

1:12:27

It's a complimentary component . But what they do get

1:12:29

is cheaper bills . So they you know we're seeing

1:12:32

savings on that site bill $8,000 a

1:12:34

year . So they just having

1:12:36

access to cheaper rates . And

1:12:38

I guess the other side of the benefit

1:12:40

is that the public that are charging their

1:12:42

car at that station it makes money

1:12:44

for the energy retailer . So the energy retailer

1:12:47

can then reduce their cost to the MTA

1:12:49

or the customer to

1:12:51

provide them cheaper power . So you're just diversifying

1:12:54

your income streams

1:12:56

to benefit the end user .

1:12:57

So what are your future plans ?

1:12:59

Future plans . It's about building up this

1:13:01

network , as large

1:13:03

you know . So we

1:13:06

are on the road right now speaking to

1:13:08

many solar retailers across the country

1:13:10

. That's all about national coverage

1:13:12

to make sure that we have a workforce

1:13:14

on the ground and helping their business

1:13:16

, building more energy plans to

1:13:18

giving more customers more choice and

1:13:21

then , yeah , really really growing out

1:13:23

the customer

1:13:25

base here in Australia . Now I talk about

1:13:27

that's just Australia , but outside

1:13:30

of here there is a big issue in

1:13:33

every country . Every country is going through this

1:13:35

transition . We're just a far ahead of

1:13:37

everyone else . I really believe we are and

1:13:39

we're facing challenges that countries are four

1:13:42

or five years away from seeing . So I

1:13:44

think we are going to position ourselves and

1:13:46

set up to enter into these countries

1:13:48

when they start to see the issues that

1:13:50

we're facing today .

1:13:51

So you're saying we're ahead because Australia

1:13:53

has already got the three , three and a half

1:13:55

million solar systems , which is

1:13:57

a much higher penetration of solar

1:14:00

compared to many other countries , is

1:14:02

it ? And so we're learning out of

1:14:04

that curve , that we then can put that

1:14:06

learning to other countries ?

1:14:07

Correct . There's not there's . There's probably

1:14:10

an account . On one hand , you know

1:14:12

a lot of countries that have experienced negative

1:14:14

market events . Europe faced

1:14:17

it for the first time a year or two

1:14:19

ago , you know , and I think it's just

1:14:21

going to get worse and worse as as

1:14:24

a solar growth and wind Right

1:14:26

, right .

1:14:27

So how are you preparing yourself

1:14:29

and evolving to face those challenges

1:14:31

and those opportunities going forward ?

1:14:33

It's every day I

1:14:35

talk to the team about . Is

1:14:37

what we're doing today scalable ? And

1:14:40

it's not . We don't want to just

1:14:42

want to help one or two people , or a hundred people , or

1:14:44

even a thousand people . We are looking beyond

1:14:46

hundreds of thousands of homes globally

1:14:49

. So what are we today

1:14:51

? We're preparing to make sure our

1:14:53

systems are legal framework

1:14:55

, our financing , everything is scalable

1:14:58

. So it's a copy and paste to hit into another country

1:15:00

. We know what the trigger points are . We've

1:15:02

learned this . This model works really

1:15:05

well in Australia's climate today . It

1:15:07

didn't work for three or four years ago and

1:15:09

we we've hit that crossover point . So

1:15:11

we'll we'll be observing the other countries

1:15:13

and understanding when they start to cross over

1:15:15

. But it's all about scale , because

1:15:18

it's yeah , we want to make as much

1:15:20

impact as we possibly can .

1:15:22

OK , so there's a big future

1:15:24

.

1:15:25

There's a big future . It's a lot to do . Yeah

1:15:27

, it's a very big vision . I think it's

1:15:29

an attractive proposition . You see , you rightly

1:15:31

said it's not every day we

1:15:34

have the opportunity to to help everyone

1:15:36

in our supply chain . Everyone in our , in

1:15:38

our , stakeholder circle wins , and

1:15:41

I think this is a very replicable

1:15:43

business model outside of

1:15:45

Australia .

1:15:46

What's your biggest hurdle in

1:15:48

selling such a great proposal ?

1:15:51

Sounds too good to be true and

1:15:53

and it's , it's proving it

1:15:55

now that that people

1:15:57

are saving this much money , that they are getting the benefits

1:15:59

you , we

1:16:02

always have this sense of we must own , we

1:16:04

must own . I

1:16:06

think that's a hurdle to like that . Do you really

1:16:08

need to own this ? Do you need to pay for your electricity

1:16:11

up front for the next 10 years ? No

1:16:13

, not really . So

1:16:15

, yeah , so it's . It's . I think there's a lot

1:16:17

of education , a lot of trust building

1:16:19

. The solar industry has not got the

1:16:21

best reputation , but

1:16:24

it works .

1:16:25

So you actually your biggest enemy is

1:16:27

the cynic in people of who

1:16:30

have heard other people being burned by solar

1:16:32

and then just wondering when

1:16:34

you come in with a great offer , they're

1:16:36

looking for that hook .

1:16:38

Yeah , correct , yeah , so , and

1:16:41

that's why we feel a great

1:16:43

opportunity is working with the local solar

1:16:45

retailer who is known

1:16:47

in your area . They did your , your

1:16:49

cousin's home and your parents' home or so

1:16:52

forth . Like they , they can be educated

1:16:54

about our product and they can

1:16:56

first handedly go and promote

1:16:59

this within their network . We got one solar

1:17:01

retail partner that basically

1:17:03

bought his whole family on board , and

1:17:05

I think that's that's really a significant

1:17:08

amount of trust to say they've they've

1:17:10

done their due diligence , they understand the model , because

1:17:13

when we first spoke to these partners they were like oh , it

1:17:15

sounds too good to be true too , but

1:17:17

but it's , it's very clear where the benefits

1:17:20

are .

1:17:20

And yeah , but look

1:17:22

, I mean now to put a reality check on

1:17:24

it . You're not promising bill free

1:17:26

moments for the rest of your life , you're just producing

1:17:29

a reduced bill and

1:17:31

they people still have to pay something for

1:17:33

it . So there's really just in the middle

1:17:36

of cost of living crisis , there's a specific

1:17:38

tangible benefit I can get . But

1:17:41

it's not a free for all . There's still a

1:17:43

payment to be made , the bills still have to be paid

1:17:45

, but you do get quite

1:17:48

clear benefits .

1:17:49

Yeah , exactly that . And I think we , we

1:17:52

, we miss that when we go to . You

1:17:54

know you buy a solar and battery

1:17:56

system for $20,000 and you don't have . You have

1:17:58

a very small bill . So you should , because you

1:18:00

just spent $20,000 . You paid

1:18:02

energy for the future to

1:18:05

reduce your bill here . There's not

1:18:07

that , there's just cheaper bill and money in your pocket .

1:18:09

So if you don't have 20 grand but still want a cheaper

1:18:11

electricity bill , yours is the option Correct

1:18:13

From an NRA philosophy

1:18:16

. How would you describe the whole company ?

1:18:18

It's about fairness . I think

1:18:20

we , we have a role to play . We

1:18:23

have our , our garden to

1:18:25

stay in , but

1:18:27

we need all of our neighbors to work with us and I'm

1:18:29

saying this is going . There

1:18:31

are . There are different

1:18:33

stakeholders within our business

1:18:36

model to make this work . There is the investor , there is

1:18:38

a solar retail , there's the energy retail and the customer

1:18:40

. We can't do everything we . We

1:18:42

work with other companies and help their

1:18:44

business become successful with us . So

1:18:47

, yeah , I think collaborative working

1:18:50

with other companies is a really strong

1:18:52

ethos of us . Fairness

1:18:54

is 100 percent like

1:18:56

number one as well . It's it's everyone

1:18:59

has to have an equal benefit across across

1:19:01

the supply chain , and

1:19:04

it's it's also just it's around

1:19:06

the democratization . It's

1:19:08

it's changing the way that

1:19:11

the , the , that

1:19:13

rooftop solar has been viewed as

1:19:15

a middle class or a high

1:19:18

or a rich available for the rich . Essentially

1:19:20

.

1:19:20

You don't have a house , you can't benefit

1:19:22

from solar Correct . You're breaking that

1:19:24

mold . We are . Do you have

1:19:27

had any solar retailer background and experience

1:19:29

?

1:19:29

As I stepped into the solar industry , I

1:19:31

had to learn . It was about solving

1:19:34

the end customers problem was how do we remove

1:19:36

the cost barriers of them accessing it ? We

1:19:39

had to learn firsthand about the customer

1:19:41

first . So we we set up a solar

1:19:43

retailer . We launched in Victoria as part of the

1:19:45

Victoria Homes program and it was very

1:19:47

successful . We we installed over

1:19:50

600 homes within the first year , but

1:19:53

that that helped them fund this

1:19:55

venture , and I took a lot of learnings around

1:19:57

. We just felt like we were chasing

1:20:00

the next cell to pay a salary . How do we make

1:20:02

a sustainable business

1:20:04

through in this , through the solar

1:20:06

sector ? And this is exactly

1:20:08

what went away and done .

1:20:09

So you got your hands dirty in the industry . You understood

1:20:11

all the aspects and then you kind of remodeled

1:20:14

it to find something that creates winner , winner

1:20:16

, winner .

1:20:16

And we were very close to becoming an energy retailer ourselves

1:20:18

and doing that aspect and it was a very clear

1:20:21

guide to say no , it's

1:20:23

it's , we don't need to take it on all on Like

1:20:25

. We need to work with what's there today and

1:20:28

partner rather than be .

1:20:31

The whole of Australia is

1:20:33

at the moment hearing that we have to get out of gas

1:20:35

and the homes have to be more electrified

1:20:37

and all of that and I think , it's to a lot

1:20:39

of people . It's kind of all a little bit much . Can

1:20:42

you explain all what the plan is and what

1:20:44

the government wants us to do ?

1:20:45

Yeah , definitely . I think Victoria definitely

1:20:47

taking the first big

1:20:49

lead in this . No new homes

1:20:51

are allowed to have gas connection . I think that's that's

1:20:54

a huge step in the right direction . About electrification

1:20:57

how we , how we , start

1:20:59

taking gas away is going to be interesting

1:21:01

over the next decade . It's definitely part

1:21:03

of the plan as we , as we decarbonise . But

1:21:06

now we need to think about everything in a home

1:21:08

relies on electricity . So the importance

1:21:11

of stability in our grid

1:21:13

, stability in our networks , is becoming more

1:21:15

and more critical . And again

1:21:17

, it's not just the , the

1:21:20

internal , like

1:21:22

my , my , my oven being powered by

1:21:24

gas . It will be electric , but it's the cars to

1:21:27

is everything is on that electrification journey

1:21:29

. So the , the energy sector , needs to do a

1:21:31

lot to , to to be involved

1:21:33

in this , in this transition , to but if the

1:21:35

electricity is from a coal fire power station

1:21:37

, then I haven't really improved the situation

1:21:40

at all . No , correct , and that's that's the role

1:21:42

now is is changing the fuel mix of of

1:21:44

generation . We're doing , we're

1:21:46

doing well , there's more that could be done , for

1:21:48

sure , but it's not . It doesn't happen

1:21:50

overnight . You can't turn off a coal fire

1:21:52

power station tomorrow and that's the end of it , it's

1:21:54

. It's a just called a transition for a reason .

1:21:58

Now let's say I'm ready . You've

1:22:00

sold me . I wanted cheap electricity bill . It

1:22:02

didn't take it too much to convince

1:22:04

me that that was a good idea . But

1:22:07

what are the key terms in the contract

1:22:09

? You know the little fine print that I might

1:22:11

not like . Are there any specifics

1:22:13

that really you want to point out ?

1:22:16

Look you are . You are in agreement with us for a 10 year

1:22:18

period . There's no cost for

1:22:20

that 10 year period . It's all paid by the energy

1:22:22

sector . The ask that we do

1:22:24

have is that you use our solar re sorry

1:22:26

, our energy retailer partners . I'm

1:22:28

going to repeat that one again . Yeah , ok .

1:22:31

Let's say you've convinced me to go with an RN

1:22:33

. I do like a cheap electricity

1:22:35

bill . You didn't have to twist my arm to go with that

1:22:37

. But in your contract

1:22:39

are there the kind of clauses that I

1:22:42

really should be aware of .

1:22:44

Yeah , look , that's . Every contract has different types

1:22:46

of clauses , but we're very open and transparent

1:22:48

of making sure it's very clear . The

1:22:51

agreement is a 10 year agreement to

1:22:53

be able to participate in our network and have the system installed

1:22:55

. There is no cost to

1:22:58

that agreement , essentially because

1:23:00

being paid by our energy retailers . The

1:23:02

ask is that you do use our energy retailers because

1:23:04

they'll pay for that system . The biggest

1:23:06

benefit for you , though , is that that 10 year agreement

1:23:08

is a maintenance agreement

1:23:10

, and we will make sure that the system that we install in

1:23:13

your home is being looked after and managed . You can

1:23:15

buy at any time . I

1:23:17

think that having that flexibility is really key . It

1:23:20

gets cheaper month on month . From day one . You

1:23:23

can transfer the agreement to the new owners In case

1:23:25

you sell your house .

1:23:26

In case you sell your house correct .

1:23:28

And then you do have a level of responsibility . You

1:23:31

need to make sure that you're not touching the system or

1:23:34

playing around with it , or just the normal terms

1:23:37

that could actually cause

1:23:39

a hazard with the system . It

1:23:42

is a battery , it is a solar , there is power

1:23:44

. And then the

1:23:46

other factor , oh , within

1:23:48

the agreement . I'm so sorry .

1:23:49

No , no , no . No , that's fine , don't

1:23:52

play with it . But obviously

1:23:54

, because you have to recoup

1:23:56

the money that you spend

1:23:58

on the first place for the system , you do need

1:24:00

a certain period , like 10 years , as

1:24:02

security , to be able to recoup your

1:24:04

funds . If somebody decides to take your

1:24:06

free system , go for a ride and two years later

1:24:09

turn it back . At that

1:24:11

point in time you wouldn't have returned your money . So I

1:24:13

get it why you would have to have a longer

1:24:15

contract period . It makes sense .

1:24:18

Yeah , definitely . And again , it doesn't cost you anything . It's being

1:24:20

paid by your energy retailer , which

1:24:22

I think that's the huge

1:24:24

benefit here is sure you're

1:24:26

going to go into place to look after the

1:24:28

system , but it's not paid by you .

1:24:31

If , for whatever reason , one day I want to

1:24:33

stop using an RN , what

1:24:36

does a contract say about that ?

1:24:38

Yeah , you can buy at the system Just

1:24:41

as you would today . You go to market . It's

1:24:43

all market costs from day one and then every month

1:24:46

it gets cheaper and cheaper and cheaper . We

1:24:48

can facilitate that for you , we

1:24:50

can make that transition very easy

1:24:52

and again it just adds

1:24:54

value to your home .

1:24:56

So I could theoretically start off not

1:24:58

buying the system have the solar , have the cheaper

1:25:00

bill and then one day

1:25:02

, for whatever reason I decide , I want to

1:25:04

give it a hug and own it . You

1:25:07

will be selling it to me , not at an

1:25:09

inflation price .

1:25:10

No , the price would normally be .

1:25:12

Okay , fair enough . And

1:25:15

the day

1:25:17

it gets onto my roof , who

1:25:20

owns the system and who is

1:25:22

responsible for it ?

1:25:23

So NRN will own that system and

1:25:26

we are responsible for making sure it's working . We

1:25:28

don't get paid by the energy retailer

1:25:30

. If your system is not working , there

1:25:33

is a maintenance contract that's set with your

1:25:35

local solar installer to make sure it's working . But

1:25:38

fundamentally , nrn will own it until

1:25:41

the time that , if you want to own it , you can buy it from

1:25:43

us . That's not a problem .

1:25:44

In regards to NRN , how long have you been operational

1:25:47

and what are some of the bigger achievements ?

1:25:49

We've been around for . Four years ago we

1:25:52

stepped into the industry , started to try

1:25:54

and build out the concept , the

1:25:56

model , of removing the cost barriers . Look

1:25:59

, the biggest achievement has been identifying

1:26:01

that a customer saves money and

1:26:04

it can commercially work for an energy retailer . We

1:26:06

can all sit around spreadsheets and work out

1:26:08

numbers , but nothing's better than seeing cash

1:26:10

in and cash out , and that

1:26:13

, for us , has been one of our biggest achievements .

1:26:15

With customers who've actually had real savings

1:26:17

on their electricity bill ? Wouldn't they

1:26:19

be shouting it off to the rooftop to their friends and all

1:26:21

that ? Do you have a referral program

1:26:23

?

1:26:24

Yeah , we do . We actually pay them for that too . We

1:26:26

pay around $200 for every customer that does refer

1:26:28

and it's what we

1:26:31

have natural growth through that at the moment , because

1:26:33

they are seeing the benefits and the savings . So

1:26:36

they do tell their friends , family members , neighbours

1:26:38

.

1:26:39

When the system gets installed , am I up for

1:26:41

any payment , or so ?

1:26:43

There's literally no cost , there's no financing

1:26:45

, there's no cost at all .

1:26:47

Is there a cost to the contract ?

1:26:49

No cost to the contract at all .

1:26:50

Sometimes you do a home loan and there are all

1:26:52

these little extra nitty-gritty

1:26:55

fees that they drag you out of your

1:26:57

nose .

1:26:59

Have you been very creative in that field . No

1:27:01

, we haven't at all . It goes

1:27:03

back to the core of we don't

1:27:05

believe that people should be paying money for

1:27:07

these systems should be given to us . I

1:27:09

didn't have to pay for a power station . Why

1:27:12

do I need to pay for having a renewable ?

1:27:13

What's involved in the installation ? How quickly does

1:27:15

it take ?

1:27:16

It takes , let's say , a day for a standard

1:27:19

installation . It's

1:27:21

very clean . We work with very

1:27:23

good solar retails and

1:27:26

installers . Generally they're all-in-house

1:27:28

installers too . There's a lot of

1:27:30

pride in their work quality

1:27:32

. They do have to submit an inspection

1:27:35

form , and we inspect and audit that as well

1:27:37

ourselves . We have another layer for

1:27:39

the quality assurance . It's

1:27:41

not a lot of time Once

1:27:44

it's installed . We then need to get the metering

1:27:46

configured . That can take two or three weeks

1:27:48

, and then you're on to the new plan

1:27:50

. There are systems

1:27:53

in place or becoming in place

1:27:55

where that could be a lot more streamlined

1:27:57

. When you're working with many different

1:27:59

stakeholders , it can get quite complex

1:28:01

. It's a real . It's pretty quick

1:28:03

and easy .

1:28:05

Basically my savings start from the time

1:28:07

the meter is installed . That's correct . Let's

1:28:09

say I've got a really small electricity

1:28:11

bill and I want to get even

1:28:13

smaller . Overall , my consumption

1:28:15

is maybe so low that it doesn't even

1:28:17

justify a solar and a battery system

1:28:19

. Do you sometimes have to say to people

1:28:21

look , we need a certain amount of electricity used

1:28:24

, otherwise the whole system doesn't work

1:28:26

.

1:28:26

Yeah , look , we do . At this point in

1:28:29

time we have a minimum . It's

1:28:31

around 15 kilowatt hours a day , which would be

1:28:33

a standard home with two bedrooms

1:28:36

which use that much . The

1:28:38

real reason is you rightly

1:28:40

said it's about using the energy that is

1:28:42

generated from your system . If you're

1:28:44

not using power , then it doesn't really

1:28:46

work . Now down the line there is an opportunity

1:28:49

that , even if you did have a very small bill

1:28:51

, those systems can be installed in your home

1:28:53

because they can integrate into a larger virtual power

1:28:55

plant . But that will be

1:28:57

in the years to come .

1:28:58

So when I get billed , is NRN send

1:29:01

me the electricity bill or is it still

1:29:03

my energy retailer who's billing me

1:29:05

?

1:29:06

No , so you don't get a bill from NRN at all . You get billed by

1:29:08

the energy retailer just like your energy

1:29:11

bills that you have today Exactly

1:29:13

the same , just cheaper , which is great . Nrn

1:29:16

is really there to help . If there's

1:29:18

any problems , If your system

1:29:20

is not working or you have other

1:29:22

questions or your concerns , you can

1:29:24

contact us directly . If not , you've got your

1:29:26

solar retailer that helped

1:29:28

you install and they're local

1:29:30

to your home as well .

1:29:32

And so let's say , if I'm in a certain area let's make

1:29:34

it Sydney or Melbourne , and I'm

1:29:36

considered going with you . Do

1:29:38

I then get from different energy

1:29:40

retailer their offers of what

1:29:42

I would save , and so I can choose

1:29:45

what would suit me better ? Is that how it works

1:29:47

?

1:29:47

That's correct . Yeah

1:29:49

, if you spoke to one of our solar

1:29:51

retailers , they'll give you some options about what

1:29:53

energy retailer can offer you different

1:29:55

prices and they'll walk through with you about

1:29:58

how that works . So , yes , you'll be able to

1:30:00

then compare what is the best option

1:30:02

for you .

1:30:03

No , I'm sorry for the question , but

1:30:05

what would happen to my system and my

1:30:07

whole setup if you guys go out of business

1:30:09

?

1:30:09

Yeah , really good question . We've isolated

1:30:11

everything in that worst case scenario . So

1:30:15

your system is owned by one

1:30:17

of our companies and if our

1:30:19

operating company wasn't there tomorrow because

1:30:21

of a certain reason hopefully that never happens

1:30:23

your system is protected

1:30:26

because that is then outlined

1:30:28

with the investor who funded that system . Because

1:30:30

there is a maintenance agreement with a third

1:30:33

party being a solar retailer , your

1:30:35

system is still able to keep working

1:30:39

and being used . It just means that NRN

1:30:42

, the operating business of it , just may

1:30:44

not be there , but look , we've set everything out

1:30:46

to say if it does happen , you

1:30:48

don't need to worry , your system is not going to be removed

1:30:50

from your home . It's business as usual for

1:30:52

you and you're just going to keep saving money .

1:30:54

Okay , Now are you able to get

1:30:56

all these benefits because you're buying

1:30:59

your solar and your battery very cheap

1:31:01

and you use the cheapest battery in the cheapest

1:31:03

solar system .

1:31:04

No , not at all . Not at all . We

1:31:07

use good quality systems . It is really important

1:31:09

. If you buy

1:31:11

cheap systems , you're not spending more money down

1:31:14

the line . So good quality systems is key . But

1:31:17

also , we also pay us , the solar retailer

1:31:19

, a really good margin and a good

1:31:22

margin , a good

1:31:24

fee , for doing a very good installation

1:31:26

on your home . So

1:31:28

, yeah , it's not about how

1:31:30

do we pay the cheapest possible

1:31:33

, because I just don't think that's an ethical

1:31:35

way or a sustainable way of running a business .

1:31:37

Because , basically , the more electricity

1:31:39

that system generates in

1:31:41

some way and the battery etc

1:31:44

in some way for your business model

1:31:46

, the better it is , isn't it ?

1:31:47

Yeah , that's correct . Yeah , if it's down , it's not good

1:31:49

for us at all . We don't get paid . Yeah

1:31:51

, we've had to put some . We've

1:31:55

really taken the choice of quality as

1:31:57

key in the manufacturers

1:31:59

and products , but also from the installation component

1:32:01

, and

1:32:05

we have a very robust QA , so quality

1:32:07

assurance process once a site

1:32:09

has been installed as well .

1:32:10

Is there a monitoring system that comes with the system

1:32:13

so I can actually see what I'm using ?

1:32:15

Yeah , definitely there is . Every

1:32:17

technology we install during the battery

1:32:19

of the inverter has a portal for

1:32:21

you to track the generation

1:32:24

and the usage from the system , which is really good , like

1:32:27

it kind of helps you with when you want to use power

1:32:29

or not . But you're 100% spot on because

1:32:31

you haven't invested in the system and it's managed

1:32:34

by the energy retailers A little bit less really

1:32:37

reliance on you monitoring

1:32:39

it , because we're doing that day to day for you anyway

1:32:41

. But if it's for your own self-cont Satisfaction

1:32:44

, yeah that's

1:32:46

it so then you can monitor

1:32:48

it 100% .

1:32:50

I think in Australia overall , out of the

1:32:52

three and a half million systems what people forget

1:32:54

there's one and a half million that are really

1:32:56

small , older style system where people

1:32:59

look at replacing them . So if

1:33:01

I've got a small system , what

1:33:03

are my options to upgrade to

1:33:05

an NRN system ?

1:33:06

Yeah , we have a lot of systems being

1:33:08

removed at this point , and

1:33:11

it is the smaller system . It's the one the two

1:33:13

kilowatt systems . Basically