0:05

Welcome to the your Lifestyle is your Medicine

0:07

podcast , where we do deep dives into topics

0:09

of mind , body and spirit . Now , through

0:11

these conversations , you'll hear practical advice and

0:13

effective strategies to improve your health and

0:15

ultimately add healthspan to your lifespan

0:18

. I'm Ed Padgett . I'm an osteopath

0:20

and exercise physiologist with a special interest

0:22

in longevity . Now , today

0:24

, my guest is my good friend , kevin Smith , and

0:27

he's here to talk about going alcohol free

0:29

. Now , if anyone is paying attention

0:31

in the health space , they will notice a sea change

0:33

when it comes to drinking . Rich Roll recently

0:36

interviewed Andy Rampage and Rory Fairbanks

0:38

and the instigators of the movement

0:40

One Year , no Beer , and

0:42

there are a whole host of celebrities who are jumping

0:45

on the sobriety bandwagon Think Bradley

0:47

Cooper , drew Barrymore , eminem , zac

0:49

Efron and many , many more . My goal

0:51

today isn't to have the likes of Miley

0:53

Cyrus tell us why we shouldn't be drinking , but

0:56

it's to listen to one man's journey on how

0:58

he went from a normal social boozer to

1:00

teetotal and delve into the reasons behind

1:03

his decision . So , kev , welcome

1:05

to the show , thanks .

1:07

Ed .

1:07

Great to be here . All right Now . I'm excited

1:09

because when you told me your

1:12

story , it reflected the story

1:14

of many , many other people who have

1:16

gone to T-Total . But when we listen

1:18

to these celebrities talk about their

1:20

journey , it's really hard to relate to , and

1:23

I wanted you to share your experience so that

1:25

our listeners and my listeners will

1:27

be able to relate to what you say and then

1:29

hopefully pick up little nuggets of how your life

1:31

has changed and then bring that into their

1:34

lives . So where do we start ?

1:36

well , I think , um , your introduction very kindly

1:39

described me as a , as I think , a social boozer

1:41

was that was the phrase you used that

1:44

that's probably something that we'd

1:46

all aspire to be . I think , culturally

1:49

, you know the acceptance that alcohol

1:51

is just a part of life . That's just , I

1:54

was going to say , from the age of 18 , but I think , if we're honest , it's

1:56

probably from earlier than that . You

1:58

know , we see our parents , that

2:01

legacy , kind of behaviours of our parents

2:03

enjoying , enjoying drinks at various

2:05

times and then kind of the , the excitement

2:08

of your if you bought my 2020 down the

2:10

park when you're 16 and then your first pint

2:12

in the pub and and I think for

2:15

me , I , my , my story , my

2:17

, my introduction to alcohol is is spectacularly

2:20

unspectacular . It wasn't . You know

2:22

that something I say to a lot of

2:24

people is that trying

2:31

to define your , your habits , is quite difficult , because you're either an alcoholic or you're not , and

2:33

those two things are pretty linear and I think we all understand

2:36

, and we probably had experience of knowing

2:38

people who've who've had real alcohol dependency

2:40

and who've who've been in a position where

2:42

, both both mentally and physically

2:45

, their body relies on alcohol , and I

2:47

was really fortunate that that wasn't my story

2:49

. I didn't . I didn't have a rock

2:51

bottom moment , I didn't have a place where I was in

2:54

danger of losing my family or my house or

2:56

my job . But I suppose you

2:58

use the word journey . I think

3:00

that's a really , a really clever way

3:02

to talk about it , because it has been , it's been a it's

3:05

been , it's been physical , clearly , um

3:07

, but it's also been emotional because , you

3:09

know , I I wouldn't have said 10

3:12

years ago that was any different to the other guy on the street or

3:14

any other girl on the street who , who's who

3:16

, who had alcohol in their life , um

3:19

, and and now I don't-

3:21

yeah , so let's talk

3:23

about that .

3:23

So I I did say you know social boozer . I

3:26

remember when we were talking about this a while

3:28

ago , you sort of mapped out your drinking

3:30

week , and some people might be

3:32

able to relate to this as , yes , that's what they

3:34

do , or they may think actually you weren't a social boozer

3:36

, you were a proper boozer .

3:38

So what did your week ? look like before you went

3:40

teetotal yeah , it's a good , a good one . I

3:42

think the

3:44

timeline was quite interesting because what

3:47

I realised I was doing was

3:49

associating alcohol with pretty much every

3:51

emotion . So I was able to commiserate

3:55

and congratulate myself . I

3:57

was able to medicate stress . I

4:00

was able to . The

4:02

perception was that I could use alcohol to relax

4:04

and unwind . But I could also use alcohol

4:07

to kind of ramp up

4:09

a social occasion . So a few

4:11

beers after work on a Wednesday night doesn't sound

4:13

like the behaviours of someone that wouldn't

4:15

necessarily be wanting to take that from their life . Whether that was after

4:17

football on a Wednesday night , a couple

4:19

of beers , always that view of

4:21

oh , wouldn't it be lovely if this was a Thursday or a

4:23

Friday and those two or three beers could be

4:26

four or five . But I always managed that I never

4:29

did go silly on a Wednesday , thursday night , a couple

4:31

of cans at home , maybe a glass

4:33

of red wine with dinner . Friday

4:36

night was always that congratulatory I've

4:39

made it to the end of the week . That's in

4:41

some way kind of an achievement , because

4:43

kind of that's how weeks work . Friday's

4:45

always the last day . You're

4:47

eventually gonna get to friday . But

4:49

but , like , like many people , congratulated

4:52

myself , but by excessively drinking on a friday

4:54

night and as I've , as I've got older , that that

4:56

went from being meeting my wife in the

4:58

pub at kind of 5 , 30 and pre-kids

5:00

staying there till close time to to

5:03

with , in more recent years , ensuring

5:05

that the fridge was just well stocked really , and and

5:08

keeping going until that last

5:10

rum and coke and the whatever

5:12

it was at 11 o'clock on channel four

5:14

on a friday night , decided that it was time for bed

5:17

. Um , and I suppose

5:19

, normalizing that grogginess that you

5:21

feel on a Saturday morning and

5:24

just normalising that and thinking , well , I'll

5:27

probably go easy tonight on a Saturday and

5:29

never go easy on a Saturday Again

5:32

, almost that freedom of mind

5:35

and body that Saturday night . There's

5:37

no consequence . And

5:40

again we're talking about , I

5:42

think , being honest and candid is important

5:44

. I would be excited about the

5:46

cold cider in the fridge

5:48

and thinking , oh yeah , well

5:50

, I'll have my first one when I start peeling the onions

5:53

for dinner at about five o'clock on a Saturday night and

5:55

steadily getting

5:59

pretty smashed on a Saturday night night

6:08

. And I think , as I got older and as life kind of kicked

6:10

in , sunday was the day where I probably I suppose I

6:12

got to the stage where Sunday was I was able to

6:14

look back on Sundays and go . This is , this is thoroughly unhealthy

6:16

, so you know . So a couple of

6:18

social pints with the father-in-law on a Sunday lunchtime

6:20

and looking forward to coming back

6:22

and preparing the roast dinner and banishing

6:25

everybody from the kitchen , putting the football on the

6:27

ipad , having that first bottle of

6:29

red wine whilst I peeled spuds and

6:31

peeled carrots . And then , um

6:33

, strategically opened the second bottle

6:35

and offered my wife a glass of red wine . Let's

6:38

have a glass of red wine . She know full

6:40

well that I'd always had already had a bottle whilst I was

6:42

preparing dinner . Um , and

6:44

and then , and then carried on and a couple

6:46

of rum and cokes in the evening , and then wondered

6:49

why Monday mornings were

6:52

, were vile . Yeah

6:54

, monday , tuesday , you know

6:56

, let absolutely don't touch the stuff thinking

6:58

that I was in some way recovering , um

7:00

, by having eight liters of

7:02

water by lunchtime on a Monday , probably

7:05

my entire caffeine allowance for the week

7:07

by lunchtime on a Monday , and

7:10

then rinsing and repeating . So you know

7:12

, I wasn't asleep in gutters

7:14

, I wasn't hiding bottles of vodka in

7:17

the toilet system , I

7:21

wasn't involved in any any kind of um

7:24

, anything that

7:26

you would class as kind of socially unacceptable

7:28

, really , and it was never . I never got to the point

7:30

of of anybody ever saying to me Kev's

7:33

drinking a lot or um . You

7:36

know , maybe not want to look at your , look

7:38

at your actions or your behaviors , but it

7:42

got to the stage where , like I say I

7:44

, I it

7:46

. It got to the stage where , like I say I , I was very conscious that every outcome

7:48

had a , had the same result

7:50

, which was to to have a drink , um

7:52

, and what I also realized was that

7:55

I wasn't like , I wasn't like everybody and

7:57

and my wife made me realize that

7:59

I wasn't like everybody because one

8:02

was never enough , two was absolutely never

8:04

enough and and worstly , three

8:06

was never enough , because when I got to three , and

8:09

there is that sweet spot isn't there and it

8:11

changes with your , with your , with

8:13

your bmi and your . You know how

8:15

you absorb alcohol , but there's that point around

8:17

three pints of relatively strong cider

8:19

where you

8:22

just feel great , you feel absolutely

8:24

bulletproof , you

8:26

think you're hilarious , you

8:28

know the endorphins are going , your

8:30

brain is saying , yeah , this is it , you've hit

8:32

the sweet spot . Whatever you've been doing for the last

8:34

hour , keep doing it , and

8:37

that's the biggest mistake , because actually

8:39

that's the peak . You've already peaked

8:41

. All

8:46

you continue to do , then , is poison yourself , poison yourself ultimately , and make

8:48

yourself feel significantly worse , and I think I was . I was always

8:50

striving for that three point , three point feeling , and

8:52

you only get that three point feeling

8:54

for about 10 minutes at three points , and I

8:56

realized that , um , it

8:59

was never going to be enough to just try

9:02

to try and stop at three or two or one , um

9:05

, not because , like I say , not because

9:07

any addiction or physical dependency

9:09

, but just because that was the way my brain was wired .

9:12

Um , and I suppose it's

9:15

not just your brain . I think that that the

9:17

the centers of your brain that

9:19

uh sort of dampen

9:21

down impulsive behaviour and

9:23

so on , they get liberated the

9:26

more alcohol you drink , and so to

9:28

stop at three is

9:30

almost impossible .

9:31

Absolutely , yeah , absolutely , and

9:34

it was my wife actually that made me realise . So

9:37

during lockdown , I think probably everybody , or

9:39

a large majority of people's , alcohol consumption

9:41

increased because there was very little to do other

9:44

than drink than drink . And I think my behavior

9:46

certainly changed , where , because you could

9:49

only shop once a week , you'd make sure that

9:51

you stocked up . Um

9:53

, I remember looking at our fridge one day , one day , and it

9:55

was pretty much half food and half food

9:57

, uh , because I was making sure that I didn't

9:59

have to go to the shop between kind of wednesday

10:01

and the following monday . Yeah , and outside

10:04

and the sun was shining and I had a couple of cans of

10:06

cider and my wife had a gin and tonic

10:08

and , uh , I think I

10:10

just finished the third can and I went back inside

10:12

I thought , do you want another drink ? And she said the

10:14

strangest thing to me . She said no thanks , I'm not thirsty

10:16

. And and

10:19

I and I just stopped in my tracks . I'm like what

10:22

? What an obvious answer to

10:24

a question of do you want another drink ? But what a ridiculous

10:27

answer to the question of do you want another

10:29

drink . And I was like , do you think I'm thirsty

10:31

? Do you think I'm , do you think I'm four

10:33

, four cans of cider thirsty

10:35

? yeah , and she looked at me and I was

10:38

like , wow , this is somebody I've lived

10:40

with , I've known for 14 years , married for

10:42

12 , and actually you realize how

10:44

far apart our alcohol behaviours

10:46

were . And you'd sit and you would nurse

10:48

that one gin and tonic and enjoy

10:51

it , and enjoy it for what it was and enjoy the taste

10:53

. I was like , oh wow , this is

10:56

totally different . Two people

10:58

in the same house , at the same time , in the same country , doing

11:01

the same thing , but at

11:03

totally different ends of the spectrum totally

11:05

, and she .

11:06

So . She's coming to it from a thirst

11:08

quenching point of view . The amount of liquid

11:11

she's drinking is , you know , if you put

11:13

that into water terms , a glass of water

11:15

, you know , fair enough . You're coming to

11:17

it from a completely other point of view . You're not going to sit down

11:19

and go . You know what I need tonight . I need seven

11:21

pints of water before 11 o'clock

11:23

. You know , no one thinks that

11:25

. Yeah absolutely

11:28

.

11:28

And what it made me and I think

11:30

what it made me do was

11:32

the thing that we don't do , which was be

11:35

really honest about our thought

11:37

process . So what I started to

11:39

do was to think , okay , well , I'm not , I'm

11:41

not drinking because I'm thirsty . Now I knew that . I

11:43

think everybody knows that and it's it sounds

11:45

a little bit , um , patronizing

11:47

to suggest that people that go and drink too much are just really

11:49

thirsty , because clearly they're not . But what

11:51

it made me do was think , well , why am I drinking ? What

11:54

am I ? What am I medicating ? And

11:56

I think at that time I was medicating

11:58

. Probably some some boredom

12:01

, to an extent there wasn't a huge amount to do

12:03

, probably

12:05

some some boredom , to an extent there wasn't a huge amount

12:07

to do . And what I realized was that , like , like a lot of people , that consumption

12:10

of alcohol kind of uh , numbed my senses , so

12:12

I could sit in the garden for six hours and

12:14

not do a huge amount , listen to some music

12:16

and and drink . Now again

12:18

, I looked at that and then that's , everybody

12:21

does it . That's not , that's not a strange behavior . I'm not

12:23

. I'm not being sick of

12:25

myself , I'm not falling asleep in the garden , I'm not . You

12:28

know , I'm violent or aggressive or rude

12:30

to anybody , like I'm doing any harm , but it

12:33

made me just start to think this

12:35

is , this is interesting . So I'm medicating boredom

12:37

and I'm medicating a bit of stress , a bit of anxiety

12:39

. You know , no one knew what was going to happen in in

12:41

lockdown . Everyone was amazing I'm furloughed

12:44

, I'm getting paid to do nothing , okay

12:46

, well , when does that end ? When does when does that stop

12:48

? And I

12:51

think it was the first time really in 2020

12:53

, that I started to to really start to think

12:55

about and have some

12:57

honest thoughts about my

12:59

, about my , my relationship with alcohol

13:02

. Um , but

13:04

it took me a little longer to be to

13:07

get to the stage where I did anything about it okay

13:09

.

13:09

So if we added up what

13:11

you were drinking on the wednesday , thursday , friday , saturday

13:14

, sunday in units terms

13:16

, that is way more than any government

13:18

guidelines of units units

13:21

in a pint , that kind of thing and then the

13:23

Monday morning you said it was a struggle . Previously

13:26

you mentioned to me some anxiety that you had

13:28

around work and things , but you thought

13:30

it was to do with work and not the boots

13:32

. Is that right ?

13:34

Absolutely . Yeah , I'd normalised

13:36

the

13:38

kind of the 4am waking and

13:42

then having that rush through the brain of all

13:44

the things that you were trying to process , and

13:47

I think that I'd

13:49

normalised it on the basis that I had a relatively

13:51

senior position in

13:53

an industry that is

13:55

, stress

13:58

, is relatively common . So I was in the travel industry

14:00

and the sports travel industry , where things go wrong

14:02

, right People , when

14:04

you're moving that number of people around foreign countries to

14:06

watch sport , they tend to get themselves into trouble

14:08

or planes get cancelled or hotels double book

14:10

. And you normalise

14:13

that feeling of

14:15

stress or

14:19

the motion of just being , of trying to think

14:22

, trying to look around corners , trying to think what

14:24

might happen and how can I mitigate that . And

14:26

what I realized , what

14:28

I've realized since , was that actually my , my drinking

14:30

behaviors physically was , was waking

14:33

me up and then the

14:35

, the anxiety that came with the alcohol

14:38

kind of the half-life of the alcohol

14:40

, um , coming through my system

14:42

was was just absolutely

14:45

compounding what was already a relatively stressful situation

14:47

but just making it 10 times

14:50

worse . But I'd never linked

14:52

those two together . I'd always just assumed

14:54

that that was , that was part of the

14:56

course . You know you've got a job . That

14:58

means that your brain is going to be racing . You're going

15:00

to wake up at four o'clock , and

15:02

that's too much detail . You'd get up at four

15:04

, nip to the loo and then , all of a sudden , you'd

15:07

lie awake staring at the ceiling and it's , and

15:09

it's 5am , and it's 6am , and then you're up and

15:11

yeah , you're again . So

15:13

, so yeah , mondays were monday

15:15

, mornings weren't . What certainly weren't my , um , my

15:17

best self take me to the next

15:19

piece .

15:19

You're in 2020 , then what happens ?

15:22

what I was able to do I think which was quite , which

15:25

quite um was different was to

15:27

step back and look at myself . Okay

15:30

, well , what do I want to do ? What do I want to be ? Well

15:32

, I want to be sharp . I want to be the best version

15:34

of myself for my kids . I want

15:36

, I don't want to be lying on

15:38

the sofa at 11 o'clock on

15:41

a Sunday morning watching the highlights

15:43

of the football beforehand and my son saying , can

15:45

we go and play football outside ? And I'm just saying let's

15:48

just watch the highlights from last night . He

15:52

doesn't want to watch the highlights from last night . He wants to go out the front and kick

15:54

a ball around . And I didn't . And

15:56

I was like , well , why don't I ? Do I not want to do that

15:58

? Because of what I've done to myself physically the

16:00

night before , physically the night before

16:02

. So there was

16:04

that kind of desire to be a better version of myself . How

16:07

do I do that ? Well , I want to be fitter . So

16:09

I want to be physically fitter . So you've

16:11

just alluded to the number of units that I was

16:13

consuming . You put that into calorie terms , it's

16:17

a couple of extra days food a week . So

16:19

shouldn't have been surprised that I was struggling

16:21

to shift any weight , despite the fact that I was training

16:24

relatively hard to play football uh

16:26

, training three times a week in a crossfit gym and and

16:28

got the stage again . Well , hold on a minute . I'm working as

16:31

hard as I can , but I'm not

16:33

seeing the the benefit that I should physically

16:35

, because I'm I'm drinking

16:37

two days worth of calories a week , yeah

16:40

. And and I suddenly started to think well , okay , professionally

16:43

, I want to want to go to the next level . I want to , I want to

16:45

stay in that , those senior positions as

16:47

a dad and as a husband . I want to be a best

16:49

, the best version of myself , physically

16:52

and from a health perspective . I

16:54

want to want to be healthier

16:57

, I want to feel healthier . Um

16:59

, and I didn't know what I didn't

17:01

know , and I normalized how I felt I

17:03

was , I was tired , I was , I

17:05

was groggy , I was , I

17:07

was moody , I was a , I was a grumpy

17:10

, overweight , stressed

17:14

, not great version

17:16

of myself . And I think the hardest thing I did was

17:18

kind of look at myself and go . I don't particularly

17:20

like this guy . I

17:23

, this guy's , this guy's doing all the things

17:25

that he thinks he should do , but actually

17:27

isn't somebody that my son

17:29

or my daughter would look up to or my wife

17:32

would look at and go . This is a shining

17:34

example of a human being , and

17:36

that was quite hard because you kind of

17:38

that self-reflection to go hmm

17:42

, this is a bit tragic really . This is , and

17:44

it almost in that sense would have been . Would have been easier

17:47

to have a real rock bottom for someone

17:49

to go . Right , that's it . God

17:51

forbid , our marriage is over or you've lost your

17:53

job because of poor performance and

17:56

that real kind of kick up the backside that some

17:58

people do get . I didn't get

18:00

, and it was death by a thousand cuts

18:02

. It kind of came to me over a

18:05

period of about a year . Really , I noticed

18:07

that I'd started to do some things that

18:09

suggested that I was , that I was serious

18:12

about change . So the dry

18:14

January kind of concept

18:16

, right you ? sort of dipped your toe in yeah

18:20

, it's funny because I now look back at

18:22

it and I dip my toe in for

18:25

the exact wrong reason . Right

18:27

, I dip my toe in to prove to myself

18:29

that I was OK .

18:30

Many people do that . Right , that's

18:33

their thing , isn't it ? They go . Well , if I cannot drink from

18:35

January 1st to January 31st , I

18:37

obviously don't have a problem and I'll

18:40

just get on with it . And there's some people

18:42

here in my community who

18:44

, you know , everyone experiments with a bit of not

18:47

everyone , but a lot of people experiment with dry January

18:49

. And then there was this concept of stealing

18:52

a day from February . Have

18:54

you heard this ? And I was shocked

18:56

. I did dry January this year . In fact , I haven't drunk

18:58

all this year , and this is partly to do with you , actually

19:00

. And I was , you

19:02

know , talking to my friends telling me your story

19:05

and a few of them were like , yeah , yeah , but you

19:07

know it's so-and-so's birthday , but what we could do

19:09

is we can take a day from jet , and

19:11

they end up taking days from february and march

19:13

and so on , and looking ahead on a monday

19:16

and say monday , march 15th or whatever it

19:18

was , we won't be drinking .

19:19

I'm like , oh , come on , guys , this is not right but

19:22

you're absolutely right , because there's there's

19:24

such a binary separation between

19:26

you're either dependent or you're not

19:28

. Then if you can

19:30

as long as you can prove that you're not , then you're okay

19:32

. You downplay some of the benefits

19:34

, inevitably . You , you do

19:36

feel better . Um , ironically

19:40

, I felt a lot worse for the first couple of weeks . You

19:42

are in a little bit of , you know , body

19:44

shock . You know , I don't know , I don't know the physiological

19:46

um , I'm sure there

19:48

is a physiological name for what what

19:50

happens when you , when you do these things . But then

19:52

, as you start , as your body does start to recover towards

19:54

the end of january and you do start to sleep better

19:56

. So easy to say , well , yeah , but that's because

19:59

I've I've not had any takeaways either in

20:01

january and I've actually probably been to the gym a little bit more in january

20:03

and I've actually probably drunk more water than I would

20:05

have done and I've actually walked the dog a little bit longer

20:07

. So I've had more exercise and it's really

20:09

easy to justify and

20:11

actually I feel healthier . So now when

20:13

I go back and drink , maybe I'll drink , uh , jim

20:15

, and slimline tonic rather than cider , and

20:18

yeah , that lasts for all of

20:20

like one day and you and then you'll and your habits

20:22

return . Um , and

20:24

I did that , and I did that , and and I

20:28

I didn't allow myself to believe

20:30

that I felt so much better . You

20:33

know , those Mondays were very different Monday mornings

20:36

.

20:37

So did you notice the anxiety

20:40

got less . Obviously there was no sort of hangover

20:42

and withdrawal stuff , but the anxiety

20:44

cleared up with the Not

20:46

immediately , I

20:49

think .

20:50

I got into a place where it had almost become habitual

20:53

. Yeah , so

20:57

four Sundays of not drinking wasn't

20:59

going to be enough . And again

21:01

I started to understand that actually

21:04

dry January was Clearly

21:07

it's better than drinking throughout january

21:10

. But actually what it was doing was kind of it wasn't quite

21:12

long enough to prove my

21:14

point . It was enough to prove

21:16

a point to myself that I wasn't alcohol

21:19

dependent and it I was

21:21

just starting to see

21:23

some , some positive signs

21:25

, but they weren't positive enough to

21:27

stop me drinking on the 1st of February . So

21:31

where I got to ? So I , so my kind of journey

21:33

was dry January 2021

21:36

break yeah , I'm fine , I'm not an alcoholic great

21:38

. And then a very wet February

21:41

, march and you can

21:43

, you can , you can go through the whole year and find

21:45

so many reasons to

21:48

to drink . So I kind of I get to october 2021

21:50

. Um , and

21:53

I think it was macmillan cancer initiated

21:56

this october . So , oh

21:58

, great , that's now two months of the year where

22:01

I can prove to myself I'm not an alcoholic great

22:03

, uh , so I went through october similar , similar

22:05

pattern to january . Uh , started to feel a little better . A little bit better . Didn't really

22:07

want to admit myself to January started to feel a little bit better . Didn't

22:09

really want to admit myself to myself that I was feeling a little bit

22:12

better . Did

22:14

a couple of different things in October , so

22:16

I did start to count calories

22:18

saved and kind of go right , every

22:20

pint of cider that I don't drink is 200

22:23

calories that I've not ingested , because

22:26

then I was starting to

22:28

think about what I was eating and how

22:30

long I was sleeping at night , and so

22:32

the physical side of

22:35

alcohol was starting to be an

22:37

impact . I also

22:39

worked out the financial elements of not

22:41

drinking .

22:43

Yes , I was going to bring that up and I'm glad you did

22:45

.

22:46

On the Tesco app so

22:48

this week's shopping is 40

22:51

quid less than last week's shopping and we

22:54

bought the same amount of food . So , okay

22:56

, there we go . That's the difference

22:58

. Times that by four , all of a sudden , that's

23:01

not an insignificant amount of money . Without really

23:03

knowing it . I was trying to find

23:05

all of these matrices

23:07

that I could measure the benefits

23:10

of sobriety against , because

23:13

I was desperate just not

23:15

to go . That's it , I'm giving up drinking . And

23:17

I was almost trying to scientifically

23:19

prove that or to justify

23:22

to myself that well , financially and physically

23:24

and mentally , and and and

23:27

. So by the end of October I'd kind of got

23:29

to the stage of going what

23:32

and for the , for the first , I'm very different

23:34

to the first of November , was very different to the first of Feb

23:37

, where I kind of like , well , am I , am

23:39

I going to start again ? Went off to

23:41

Cardiff I think it was Wales , fiji

23:43

, or like what it was Wales , fiji on the 14th

23:45

of November 2021

23:48

. And I remember being in Wales , being

23:52

with some clients of the business

23:54

, being in a hotel and

23:57

we'd hosted a lunch for about 70

23:59

really really , really good clients and

24:01

some people had gone off to the rugby and I'd stayed at the hotel

24:03

and because we'd done a bit of a presentation

24:06

and a speech . I'd not drunk during the day , and

24:09

then it was kind of once they got off to the game we had some food

24:12

and we sat and we had a chat and a couple of pints and

24:14

then the client started coming back to the hotel . They're

24:16

like oh , we've had such a great day . Thanks ever so much . Let me

24:18

buy you a drink .

24:20

So these are clients you're entertaining in that standard

24:22

sort of corporate client pint absolutely

24:24

drink .

24:25

here's some food yeah , yeah go both ways

24:27

okay , so it's there's an expectation

24:29

for you to drink with them absolutely

24:32

and I and I I genuinely felt obliged

24:34

that someone's come back and said such a great day thanks

24:36

ever so much , let me buy you a pint . No

24:40

, I thought , is that is it rude for me to refuse

24:43

that ? And so and again , weakness

24:45

on my part went along with it , and and

24:48

that night got out of hand because

24:50

this was 5 o'clock , the game was at 2.30 . They're

24:52

coming back to the hotel at 5 o'clock . Woke

24:54

up on the Monday morning , 15th of November , in

24:56

Cardiff , feeling pretty grotty

24:59

, genuine

25:02

, genuine anxiety , because I

25:04

couldn't remember probably

25:07

the last two hours of the night Right

25:10

, being with valued

25:12

clients , people . I couldn't remember probably the last

25:14

two hours of the night , right , you've been with valued clients , people I didn't

25:16

know particularly well , um , not knowing how the night

25:18

ended , having that horrible kind

25:20

of flashback

25:23

exactly yeah happened , yeah , yeah , yeah probably

25:25

Exactly . Yeah , yeah , yeah

25:27

, probably the most anxious I've

25:29

ever felt about just the

25:31

not knowing and not being surrounded

25:33

by people waiting to come to breakfast and say what

25:35

the hell happened last night . You know what happened

25:38

and wasn't going to be able

25:40

to have that conversation with anybody . Yeah

25:42

, and then it's a bit I'm not sure I told you

25:44

this before . It was the

25:46

perfect storm . So I

25:49

then walked from Cardiff

25:52

City Centre to the station I

25:54

was getting a train to Gloucester . It

25:56

poured with rain the whole way . So I'm

25:58

hungover , I'm anxious , I'm

26:01

feeling pretty grotty , I'm

26:04

soaking wet . I get to

26:06

Cardiff station to get

26:08

the train back to Gloucester . All

26:10

trains are cancelled . I'm

26:13

rail replacement bus service

26:15

, so the

26:17

45 minute train is now a two

26:19

hour bus , calling at every single

26:21

stop between Cardiff and Gloucester

26:23

. Right , and looking

26:26

back , it's exactly what I needed . I was like what

26:32

am I doing ? What am I ? I'm ? What was I like ? 42 years old , I'm

26:35

sat on a bus with my , with my rucksack

26:37

on my lap , just

26:40

just wanting to be at home in

26:42

. I wasn't in a . I wasn't in a in

26:44

a in a a dangerous

26:46

environment . I was just just

26:48

feeling really sorry for myself , and it was having

26:52

having come off the back of kind of that October

26:54

period where I felt good , um

26:57

, I remember coming getting off the bus and

26:59

then having to get another bus to my house . It was just

27:01

, it was just like you can just imagine

27:03

. I was just , I was just not in a great place . I was just feeling

27:05

sorry for myself and I was and

27:07

I look up to the stage going but that's it , that's

27:10

it , I'm done , I'm done

27:12

, that's it . And I remember getting in the house and said , well , I'm

27:14

not drinking , that's it , I'm done . And

27:16

and then , kind of as the as

27:18

the , the anger of my day

27:20

wore off . I was like , well , yeah , but it's

27:22

the 15th of november , I'm

27:24

supposed to be in cardiff again next week , so

27:26

how am I going to have those conversations with the same people

27:28

about not wanting to drink ? And then

27:31

it's December , right , what a terrible

27:33

time to pick my

27:36

wife's birthday . It's my birthday , it's Christmas

27:38

, it's new year . So

27:40

I'd kind of , I'd kind of created this environment

27:43

where I was going to write I'm going to have a week off , I'm going

27:45

to not drink until at least next Saturday , and

27:48

just make myself feel a little bit

27:50

better . And

27:53

then , through a turn of events not linked to drinking

27:56

. Anyway , I ended up not going to Cardiff and

27:58

being quite relieved that I wasn't going to Cardiff . Okay

28:01

, well , that's removed that

28:03

yeah . So

28:06

I can go to the end of November . So that's

28:08

, I've had two weeks . So in my head I

28:10

was like , well , actually I've had the whole of october

28:12

, I've then had two weeks and I've had another

28:15

two weeks . So out of the eight weeks

28:17

, I'm six . Six out of eight

28:19

, okay , um

28:21

, but I'm not gonna be able to get through . You know , the

28:24

concept of even thinking about trying to get through christmas and

28:26

birthdays and all those things just just wasn't even

28:28

on my mind . Um , we

28:31

were hosting a party for my wife's birthday on the

28:33

17th of December . So I was like , okay , what I'll do is I'll go

28:35

up to the 17th of December , um

28:37

, and then I'll not be able to not

28:39

drink , hosting a party at our house , so I'll

28:42

, I'll then drink . Um

28:44

, and that was kind of my intention up

28:46

until the day . And I went out and bought the crisps

28:49

and the nibbles and I was like , right , I need

28:51

to go and buy the booze . So here

28:53

we go . And I remember being stood in the aisle

28:55

and I bought a case of cider

28:57

and a few bottles of Factor

28:59

Zero , zero , and I put

29:01

them in the fridge . I was like I wasn't

29:04

really sure why I bought the Zero Zero . But

29:06

there must have been a reason . I was like

29:08

maybe I am considering not drinking

29:10

tonight , I'm not really sure . And

29:12

I wasn't brave enough to have that kind of internal conversation

29:14

with myself and we were getting ready to play and

29:16

music was on and the first

29:18

person knocked on the door at seven o'clock and I remember

29:21

, literally like a sliding doors moment , being stood

29:23

in front of the fridge , going what

29:25

side of the fridge do I go to ? And

29:30

I fridge , going what side of the fridge do I go to ? Wow , and I I took the zero , zero

29:32

and I poured it into a pipe glass and , not ashamed to say , I hid the bottle

29:34

. I hid the bottle in the bottom of the bin because

29:36

the people that were coming were our , our good friends

29:38

, but I didn't want to have that conversation with them

29:40

. That was , I'm not

29:42

, I'm not going to drink tonight , because in some

29:44

way that would would have detracted from

29:47

the party we were hosting you sort of think it does

29:49

, don't ?

29:49

you think it's going to take away from the party

29:51

, but yeah , well , you , your experience

29:53

is probably it doesn't , doesn't .

29:55

Well , interestingly , I I I

29:58

had a pint glass all night in my hand

30:00

with varying levels

30:03

of what looked like cider and so

30:05

that . So in their head , nothing changed , right

30:07

, nothing . That was normal Kev . Um

30:10

, we had a karaoke machine

30:12

. I was cooking pork belly . We

30:14

had a fire outside um

30:17

, it was . It was a great party . My wife

30:19

had a lovely birthday . Um , by

30:21

about midnight I realized that I'd

30:23

had the same conversation with one guy three

30:25

times and I was now . I was now telling him his story

30:27

back to me . Um

30:35

, and I , like , people started to drift away and went home and I tied it up , put , cleared

30:38

the house at kind of midnight , came down , turned down the next morning

30:40

I was like I had a really good night and

30:44

I was genuinely surprised . I had

30:46

a great time . I didn't , no

30:48

one knew . So I felt a little bit

30:50

. I didn't feel guilty , but I felt a bit like a bit deceitful

30:53

that everybody else was hanging in there

30:55

. The WhatsApp groups are going . How are you all feeling today ? How's

30:57

the head ? How are you feeling , gab ? I

31:00

was like do I put on there ? I'm

31:03

fine . I'm

31:09

fine because I've deceived you all and that was a massive moment

31:11

for me , because I was more concerned

31:14

about what I perceived to be the social

31:16

pressures than

31:18

actually . I was pretty

31:20

concerned about two things . One would I have a good time ? Would

31:23

I feel boring ? Would I feel like this

31:26

guy ? And I think we've all got that

31:28

vision of the the person stood with the

31:30

lime and soda in the corner , not talking to anybody

31:33

, and what's up with him ? Oh , he doesn't drink . All

31:35

right that they came from over there , and

31:38

so I ? I didn't

31:40

feel like that . I didn't feel as if

31:42

anybody that had come to our house that

31:45

night had had a worse experience because I wasn't drinking

31:47

. Just by a turn

31:49

of fate , my wife's birthday's on the friday , mine's on

31:51

the monday . So I was like , okay , well , what are we doing

31:53

for my birthday ? Luckily we weren't hosting

31:55

another party .

31:56

That'd have been a bit much , but yeah , normally

31:58

would have been let's go for some lunch , let's go out , let's go , let's

32:01

go out .

32:01

So okay , we went . I think we went down to um

32:03

, to mitch hampton , common , the

32:05

old lodge again somewhere where if

32:08

I went there , I'd always be looking at what , what

32:10

side has they got on tab ? Yeah

32:12

, how's they got ? And I remember walking

32:14

in and looking and they had um lucky

32:16

saint to a zero , zero beer . And

32:19

and my , my

32:21

first reaction which is why I knew

32:23

that I needed to make this change was absolute

32:25

relief . I was like I'm

32:27

not going to put myself under any pressure to

32:30

drink today because there's a viable

32:32

solution right in front of me and it's okay .

32:35

Just the two of you . Yeah , this

32:38

pressure and internal dialogue is happening

32:40

on your birthday for a lunch with

32:42

your wife . Yeah , absolutely

32:45

.

32:46

Who is , for the record , 100%

32:48

supportive of me

32:50

not drinking and he's very honest and says you're

32:53

a better person when you're not drinking yeah so

32:55

it wasn't as if I was trying to prove to any anything

32:57

, and so so , yeah , so then

32:59

I'm , then I'm , then I'm two birthday celebrations

33:01

in one weekend and

33:04

, having navigated them both not not

33:07

particularly spectacularly haven't done anything majorly

33:09

different . I was then going to my brother's

33:11

in London for Christmas and

33:14

again the WhatsApp group's going and who's bringing

33:16

the trifle ? We've got the cheese , who's bringing this

33:19

? And my mum goes on and says I've

33:21

got a couple of bottles of champagne I'll bring . And

33:23

I thought , great , great opportunity , guys

33:26

, I'm not going to drink on Christmas Day . I'm

33:28

not going to drink on Christmas Day . I'm going to drive up in the morning and I'm

33:30

not going to drink . And within like

33:33

two minutes my brother had put on and said , yeah

33:35

, no problem , mate , I've got you some zero , zeros

33:37

. There's some no seco

33:39

. And I was like , hang on a minute , no

33:43

one cares what I'm doing . They

33:45

can do what they want and I can do what I want

33:47

. What

33:52

I'm doing , yeah , you can do what they want and I can do what I want , and it

33:54

so again , christmas day um was great . Boxing day morning I'm

33:56

up , we're out walking , feeling

33:58

good , and I'm feeling smug . By now , by now , I'm

34:00

genuinely smug .

34:01

Right , I'm starting to physically feel better

34:03

you're doing your crossfit

34:05

all the time in the background .

34:06

Yeah , yeah , so , yeah , yeah . So I'm still trying to train , I'm

34:08

still trying to

34:11

look after myself and just be a

34:13

healthier version of

34:16

me . And then the exact juxtaposition

34:18

was that I wasn't thinking at all about what I was drinking

34:20

. And as I started to do that , you

34:23

realize that actually all the good you

34:25

can do by having a good diet

34:27

can be undone in four hours on a Friday

34:29

night .

34:31

Literally undone , and not just the Friday night

34:33

, the following Saturday with the poor

34:35

food choices that come up and even the

34:37

Sunday .

34:39

It's 96 hours of hormone

34:42

and blood sugar dysregulation yeah

34:44

yeah , yeah , a big busy night , yeah , yeah

34:48

, yeah , yeah , a big busy night , yeah . And the justification , the , the internal dialogue

34:50

, justification of that you everybody knows what

34:53

you shouldn't do , the the times where you

34:55

would , I would look at , I would look at the app that

34:57

where you book on to go into the gym on a saturday

34:59

morning , on friday afternoon , go . What

35:02

I'm going to do here is I'm going to book on , I'm then

35:05

going to go home , I'm going to drink too much , I'm then going to cancel it . And instead of going to

35:07

drink too much , I'm then going to cancel it and instead of going to the gym , I'm

35:09

going to go to McDonald's and get McDonald's breakfast , like

35:12

the ridiculous .

35:14

The opposite .

35:15

Yeah , it couldn't . So

35:17

you're exactly right . Not only am I not

35:20

doing the right thing on the Friday night , I'm then ruining

35:22

, I'm stealing joy from the following day as well

35:25

. Right , that's just . That's just

35:27

that . But when you say these things out loud

35:29

, it's ridiculous , but it

35:31

probably resonates with with 90 of

35:33

the population , they're going well . Can I do that ? The

35:37

strange thing is that the number of people who

35:39

who have reacted strangely and literally

35:41

on the fingers of of one hand , right

35:44

have taken it personally like

35:46

. So I I'm not gonna name names for for

35:48

fear of retribution , but I went to a party

35:51

and got there and what are you drinking ? Someone's trying

35:53

to put a glass of champagne in my hand ? No , no , I'm fine , thank you

35:55

, all right , what do you want ? A beer ? No , no

35:57

, I'm fine , actually , thanks . Spotted

36:00

their Nespresso coffee machine in the corner . Oh , I couldn't

36:02

have a black coffee , could , why

36:08

not ? Yeah , how

36:10

long have you got ? No

36:14

, I'm not . I kind

36:16

of . I kind of I got this phrase and

36:19

it was , it was , it was

36:21

okay and I don't use it anymore . But it was like alcohol

36:24

is no longer kind of aligned

36:26

with with my life choices and it felt a bit kind

36:28

of .

36:29

Yeah , it's a bit pretentious .

36:31

It pretentious I was , was like I just don't want to and

36:35

I just want really hard not to be cross like it's

36:37

none of your business it's

36:40

almost like it's easier and I've heard people

36:42

say this to have a medical reason

36:44

not to drink absolutely , I did that

36:46

if you could just have a note from your doctor saying

36:48

well , actually I've got colitis or no

36:51

? My kidneys are antibiotics , my antibiotics

36:53

. I can't drink , or yeah no , no one asks you

36:55

to say a follow-up question when you say you're an antibiotic

36:57

um , but you know , you're absolutely

37:00

right , you're at it , but I , I think , I

37:02

think the fear of of um

37:04

upsetting somebody

37:06

, or or or feeling in some way disrespectful

37:09

to that person is

37:12

always greater than the

37:14

actual practical

37:17

outcome . Like I say , probably three

37:19

or four people , and

37:22

the reason that I'm OK with that is because I was

37:24

that guy . I was that guy

37:26

at uni . What do you mean ? You're not drinking

37:28

, don't be ridiculous . Of course you are . Come on , on , come

37:31

on , I'll get some

37:33

of mine . And there

37:35

were some really strong people at our uni that didn't drink

37:37

um , and I remember thinking what

37:40

, what , what are you doing ? You're

37:42

missing out ?

37:43

and and they were the smart ones um

37:45

, they were well actually talking about it , so we were at university

37:48

together . That's how we know each other , and uh our

37:50

university had a little bit of a reputation

37:53

I mean , all universities

37:55

do , but we like to think our reputation our reputation

37:57

for boozing was was more than others

37:59

. Potentially it was a sport thing , a sport

38:01

science thing . And you told me the

38:03

story about a reunion that you went to . I think it was

38:05

last year and this reunion

38:08

it's happened on and off over the years

38:10

since we graduated 20 , 20 plus years ago

38:12

. It's in london and all the guys get

38:14

together and there's usually a lot of

38:16

drinking and going

38:19

to that and I've been to that reunion . It's

38:21

a expectation to get drunk

38:24

because that's what we used to do in our 20s

38:26

and that's what we're going to do in our 40s , to try and

38:28

sort of hold on to some sort of semblance

38:30

of our youth potentially . So tell me about

38:32

what happened when you went to that , with knowing

38:35

that you're going into an environment that historically

38:37

is a very booze heavy environment

38:39

it hadn't happened for a couple of years

38:41

covid and life , etc

38:44

.

38:44

And a couple of people had returned from overseas . Um

38:47

, and it was becoming , it was going to be a . It was going to be a big day

38:49

. Um , I'd

38:51

, I'd managed expectation with

38:53

a couple of the guys that I knew well

38:56

and they knew that

38:58

I wasn't drinking , and

39:00

by then I'd got to the stage of using the

39:03

phrase that I was never going to use , which is I

39:05

don't drink .

39:06

So I'd always go .

39:07

I'm not drinking at the moment . And

39:09

going from I'm not drinking at the moment to I

39:11

don't drink , it felt like quite a big step

39:14

because it's much more final right

39:16

, I don't drink present

39:18

tense I'm not drinking at

39:20

the moment . But I might do if

39:24

the right environment was to be created which

39:26

kind of opens you up a little bit for someone to go

39:28

. Well , maybe today's the day , then

39:30

why wouldn't you drink today ? You're with your mates , it's the day then . Yeah , why would you drink

39:33

today ? You're with your mates , it's it's the saturday before christmas

39:35

. You're in london . Remember that time

39:37

when you got on the train , you know that sort of thing . So I was like

39:39

, okay , I'm now using the phrase I don't drink

39:41

. So two or three guys knew about it . But

39:43

then , there were . There were 10

39:45

, 12 guys from our year at uni

39:47

who who were mates , but but aren't

39:50

people that I would have seen for maybe 10 years

39:52

for various various reasons

39:54

, you know , like kids , covids , etc

39:56

. And we're in the pub

39:59

in covent garden , the same one that we're always in the porterhouse

40:01

um , people

40:03

are coming and going , as they generally do throughout the day

40:05

, and someone

40:07

came up to me who I haven't seen for a couple years and I was

40:10

an inch left at the bottom of my pipe glass , sm

40:12

Smithy , what are you having ? I said I'm drinking the

40:14

on the second from the end

40:17

on the tap , so-and-so

40:20

, so-and-so , zero , zero . And he stopped and he turned around , he

40:23

went all right what's it like ? I

40:25

said you know what , it's

40:27

really good . He said , oh , went away , got me one . Came

40:30

back , we had another chat . I finished , bought

40:32

him one . So

40:34

I'm in this little circle , um , we're

40:37

chatting away . What you're drinking

40:39

? I'm drinking the zero zero . On the end , oh

40:41

, you're not drinking . No , told them the story . All

40:44

right , what's it like ? It's quite good , long

40:47

story short by the end of that . That

40:49

kind of cycle of events . It

40:51

was my round . All right , guys , I , you bought me one , you bought me one , you bought me one like

40:53

I . That kind of cycle of events . It was my round . I'm like , guys , I , you bought me one , you bought me one , you

40:56

bought me one . Like I was trying to kind of go around trying to mop

40:58

up who I'd point to . So

41:01

what are you having ? I'm on that , I'm on the

41:03

zero zero . But yeah , I'm on the zero zero

41:05

anyway . Of the seven drinks I bought , five

41:07

of them were zero zeros and because

41:10

you converted them or they were I think

41:12

. Anyway , I think people have kind of gone this

41:15

is what's the difference , like

41:18

, and I , so I didn't get

41:21

the chance to kind of complete the circle with regards

41:23

to yeah , that's something that you always

41:25

do . Is that something that that we're all

41:27

moving towards ? Because we're kind of going

41:29

, well , what's the point

41:31

?

41:32

what's the ?

41:32

point , and so

41:35

it was . It felt , it felt

41:37

good that you're

41:39

not that kind of social pariah , you're not the one , you're

41:41

not the lime and lemonade in the corner by yourself . Yeah

41:44

, the chat was was as silly

41:46

and as good and as funny as ever . There

41:48

was always going to be those , those stories

41:51

of remember this and remember that , and lots

41:53

of those are underpinned by our behavior

41:55

when we were drunk . That

41:57

was okay to have those , because because

41:59

it was great we wouldn't have had those memories had we

42:01

not done what we did when we were 18

42:04

19 , yeah , I think the difference this

42:06

year was that we weren't trying

42:08

to replicate that and we weren't . We weren't desperately

42:10

hanging on to those behaviors . We're kind of going . They

42:13

were , they were cool , they were great , there were good times

42:15

. But it was 1998

42:17

and the world's different . Yeah , we're

42:19

different . Our bodies are different , our minds are

42:21

different . Um , and

42:23

it was , yeah , it was . Uh

42:26

, I don't think I needed the

42:29

um , the reassurance , because these are good

42:31

guys , you know them , but they're good guys . They wouldn't

42:33

be the people that would say I'm not speaking to him because

42:35

he doesn't drink but for

42:38

so many people in that environment

42:40

, that was historically a a

42:42

boozer's day to have made

42:44

those decisions either pre-event or during the

42:46

event . That's gone . Yeah , I'll have

42:48

one of those . Yeah , um , it

42:51

was great , it was . Yeah , it like

42:53

that . That kind of reconfirms why these are

42:55

my people .

42:57

Because we're kind of all on that same

42:59

path . And

43:03

maybe that was you , maybe they've got there anyway

43:05

, maybe it's the time in our lives , but

43:07

I would agree . I've had a couple of people

43:09

here . When I said I wasn't drinking in

43:12

January , they were like , well , call me

43:14

in february . I was like , okay , I

43:16

don't think I will . And then there are , there

43:19

are others who have gone , oh , that's

43:21

cool . And then come february they're like

43:23

you're still not drinking . I'm like , no , they're like , yeah

43:25

, I think I'm going to do that . And I've had three or four

43:27

in my social circle here that have either

43:30

stopped or severely cut down their

43:32

booze intake . I've

43:36

mentioned this one year no beer , and

43:38

the founder of that is Rory Fairbairns . He

43:41

says this phrase which I thought was really

43:43

interesting . He's on the Rich Roll podcast . Rich Roll

43:45

is an ultra athlete

43:49

, a health advocate , and he's

43:51

a recovering alcoholic . And he says to this guy

43:53

, rory , he says so , you're T-Total

43:55

right , you run One Year no Beer

43:58

, you're leading this world movement . And he goes

44:00

God , no , and it was

44:02

in the podcast . It was like , oh , this is interesting . The

44:05

guy drinks and he says this

44:07

. He says , look , if I ask people to quit

44:09

booze completely , I get a 0%

44:12

compliance If

44:15

I say to them look , have something at Christmas . Or if someone buys you a

44:17

really expensive bottle of whiskey from Japan

44:20

and they fly it back and they coddle it and cut

44:22

the wall and they ask you to have a

44:24

dram with them , why not ? And

44:26

then everyone's like , oh yeah , I could do that

44:28

, but I can't go teetotal . And

44:32

he uses it as a springboard to going teetotal

44:34

. But I think that's brilliant . When I

44:36

say I haven't drunk since January , I actually

44:38

tell a lie . My

44:41

current girlfriend , she went to Canada

44:43

and bought back this maple

44:45

syrup liqueur and she was so pleased

44:48

with it she bought it back and she gave it to me and I was like , oh

44:50

, I'm not drinking . And

44:53

then I looked at it and I remember what this guy always says I'm going to try

44:55

this . So I bought a tiny bit in a glass , drank

44:57

it . In fact the alcohol taste to me was

44:59

quite overwhelming and I actually gave it a

45:02

little bit to my daughter and she said why don't you just drink

45:04

, uh , drink some sort of hot chocolate and not

45:06

put the alcohol in it ? It's like , yeah , you've

45:09

nailed it , really it doesn't mean that's it

45:11

yeah absolutely , absolutely

45:13

.

45:14

I think that the analogy

45:16

that springboard is it's a springboard is

45:18

absolutely , yeah . And I , looking back

45:20

, I , I did that springboard without knowing that I

45:22

was doing the springboard , because I think , once you

45:24

get comfortable enough to go , no , no

45:26

, I don't drink , I'm okay , um

45:29

, I'm not broken , I'm not , there's nothing wrong with

45:31

me , well , there's's nothing wrong with me , there's nothing

45:34

new wrong with me . And

45:36

once you get to that state , I

45:40

think that the other thing , the final thing for me was that not

45:42

drink , not physically drinking , the easy bit

45:44

. So you know , you can just not

45:46

buy the booze , you can just not go to the pub , you can

45:48

just not put yourself in a situation . So that's relatively

45:51

straightforward , right . That's discipline . That's just having

45:54

discipline not to put yourself in those positions

45:56

where you might make a poor decision

45:58

or being strong enough to . Though , if you are

46:01

in those positions , you'll , you'll be resolute . The

46:04

thing that I've had to work hard at that is

46:06

, um , all the things I used to medicate

46:09

with alcohol I now have to deal

46:11

with . Yes , so

46:14

, um , I sleep really

46:16

well , right , but I , I still have

46:18

those , I still have the . I still have

46:20

stressful situations in my life , but

46:23

I have to deal with them rather than numbing them with alcohol

46:25

. Genuinely is a is

46:27

a newly learned skill as an

46:29

adult , because ever since I can remember I'm

46:33

thinking about this . But it's okay , because by five

46:35

o'clock I'll have a cup of glasses of wine and I'll forget about it , and

46:37

then that can be , that can be tomorrow's problem . That

46:40

can be tomorrow's problem . I'm not at my best

46:42

and I'm feeling like crap and I'm groggy

46:44

, yeah , and I've still got to deal with

46:47

the problem's the same , if anything . The problem's slightly worse

46:49

and I'm I'm ill

46:51

prepared to deal with it , or let's

46:54

deal with it now , when I'm as fresh as I'm going to be

46:56

right head on .

46:57

Yeah , you can kick it down the road until

46:59

it builds up , and then you just have to make you

47:01

deal with it in a poor way , in a bad way , or

47:04

you can get it earlier .

47:06

What I've got , what I've got really good at

47:08

as I've got older is knowing

47:10

what I'm not good at .

47:12

Yes .

47:21

Allowing things to carry on and get worse is something

47:23

that I know is only going to make things worse

47:25

, whereas I think old me would have gone ostrich

47:29

head in the sand , face

47:31

in a can , kind of . We'll

47:35

deal with that at another time and actually , knowing that you're not

47:37

very good at that and fixing it

47:39

is , it's

47:42

difficult , it's hard , right .

47:44

If it was as if it was easy , everyone would

47:46

be doing it so , talking of everyone doing

47:48

it , what advice would you give to someone

47:50

who's sober curious ? Who's thinking about

47:52

this ?

47:55

I think the first thing I'd say is is have

47:57

the bravery to , to

47:59

, to , to self-reflect

48:01

. So

48:09

if you're , if you're thinking about it , if you think you might have

48:11

a challenging relationship with alcohol , then you probably have because

48:13

you're already thinking about it , and that's

48:16

the first bit . Right To go . Whether it's a sober curious

48:18

, whether you classify as a gray area

48:20

drinker , whether you let

48:22

yourself down at a family party

48:25

or a wedding , or there's videos of you circulating

48:27

that you'd rather there weren't , or there's

48:29

an embarrassing karaoke moment or a

48:31

wardrobe malfunction that you can look

48:34

back on and go , yeah , that

48:36

was that seventh Jager bomb that did that . Whatever

48:39

that kind of trigger piece is , then if

48:42

you think that there's a

48:44

problem and problem is probably a too strong

48:46

a word then there probably is , and

48:48

I think my advice would be have the bravery to , to

48:50

look at what's causing that um

48:53

. Is that a ? Is that a desire to

48:55

medicate a stressful situation ? Is it

48:57

a um ? And I and I fully

48:59

appreciate , I'm very fortunate that I haven't got huge

49:02

life trauma that I'm trying to to cover

49:04

up , and I and I know that there are people that have

49:06

that have been in some awful

49:08

situations and that it can

49:10

be deemed that alcohol can help those things . Because

49:12

you haven't got to think about it . And I understand why

49:14

, why you would do that , I think , just

49:17

having the bravery to look and look

49:19

at the reasons why . Because , like

49:21

I say , the act , the act of not drinking unless

49:24

you are dependent physically

49:26

. It's relatively straightforward , you know , but

49:29

there's never been more options

49:31

. You know , I'm sure that tesco's out a new shelf

49:33

every every time I go to the the

49:35

alcohol free section of our tesco's . There's

49:37

a section's bigger , there's a another

49:40

brand , there's a , there's another

49:42

option . And another piece of advice

49:45

would be that it's it's

49:47

so easy , isn't it , to be led by other people

49:49

. It's been . It's so easy for other people's

49:51

to

49:53

be led by other people . It's been . It's

49:55

so easy for other people's opinions or insecurities to rub off . Um , if

49:57

, if you can be stubborn and disciplined

49:59

and selfish , then

50:02

those those things that aren't necessarily

50:04

qualities that you would shout from the rooftop

50:06

. Someone said describe yourself in three words and you said

50:08

I'm stubborn . Stubborn , selfish

50:10

and disciplined . You're probably thinking that who's

50:12

this guy ? But actually , actually , if you apply those three

50:14

things to your relationship

50:17

with alcohol , the

50:22

minute you start to verbalise some of those things out

50:25

loud and start to , in that safe space

50:27

, whether it's a partner or a friend , someone you can

50:29

tell this is bonkers

50:33

. Right , right , what are we doing ? We're spending all this money

50:35

doing this thing that makes us feel

50:37

good for about 12 minutes and then awful

50:40

for about two weeks cost loads of money

50:42

, makes us physically awful , it gives

50:44

us anxiety and stress and depression , affects

50:47

our sleep , it makes us tired , it makes us lethargic

50:49

. You kind of go . That's not

50:51

a great idea , is it ? But

50:54

then everyone does it . Then you go oh yeah

50:56

, it's Friday , go and do that . There

51:04

is certainly a school of thought or a change in behaviours , isn't

51:06

there that we , as 40-something nearer to

51:08

50s probably aren't we that age

51:11

men can have this conversation ? Yeah

51:14

, this would have been a ridiculous concept 20 years ago yeah

51:16

, we would have had to have had that doctor's note yeah

51:19

, absolutely , absolutely yeah

51:22

. And if that

51:24

doctor's note said um , you

51:27

know , uh , this

51:29

this person is is

51:31

struggling with their weight , can't sleep , has

51:33

anxiety , has depression , has

51:36

bouts of panic

51:38

attacks , physically , is

51:40

carrying more weight than they should , has high blood pressure .

51:43

If the doctors don't say that you'd be going wow

51:45

, this person's in real trouble .

51:48

And the only thing you have to do to not do that is don't

51:50

drink . Of course you're not going to drink . Why

51:52

would you even drink if you've got this ? How

51:55

many people have got those symptoms to an extent ? Because

51:59

lots of them are unquantifiable

52:01

, aren't they ? Yeah , how

52:04

bad is your ? You

52:06

could say someone's a stone overweight or too stone overweight

52:08

, or BMI , and you can

52:10

measure health and you can measure heart

52:12

, blood pressure , all those things , but you start to add

52:15

them all together and they're all

52:17

consequences of one

52:19

single action . Doctors

52:22

should be writing notes .

52:23

right , they should be , you

52:26

should be writing notes going you're not allowed to

52:28

drink . Kev , thanks so much

52:30

for coming on the show and imparting your

52:33

wisdom that you've learned allowed to drink . Kev , thanks so much for coming on the show and imparting your wisdom that you've learned for this journey

52:35

and I'm hoping this will inspire some

52:37

people to dip their toe in and

52:39

maybe take that step towards

52:41

being alcohol-free .

52:42

Thanks , ed , it's been great .

52:45

Thank you for joining me in my conversation

52:47

with Kevin . If you'd like to support the

52:49

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53:00

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53:02

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53:04

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53:06

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53:08

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53:10

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