0:01

Yeah, well, of course it would be ideal to join

0:03

a circus that doesn't

0:05

have any animals and only tortures French

0:08

Canadians. Welcome

0:19

to You're Wrong About. I'm Sarah Marshall

0:21

and today we are learning about one of

0:24

the most important televised weddings of

0:26

the 20th century and about

0:28

the very confusing man who had it,

0:31

Tiny Tim. Our

0:34

guest today is the amazing

0:36

Harmony Colangelo co-host of This

0:39

Ends at Prom and

0:41

we are so lucky to have her. You're

0:44

in for a lot of joy. If you

0:46

came to either of the shows

0:48

that I was lucky to do at SF

0:50

Sketchfest with Chelsea Weber Smith, our live

0:53

You're Wrong About show or our

0:55

live You're a Good show with my co-host Alex

0:57

Steed. Thank you so

0:59

much for coming. Thank you especially to those of

1:02

you who told us about Claude, the albino alligator.

1:04

We are very excited to visit him. Like

1:07

so many of the stories we have told

1:09

before because we are an American history and

1:11

pop culture show, I guess, this

1:14

is yet another story that involves

1:17

our protagonist at one point making

1:19

an executive decision as an adult

1:21

to marry a teenage girl. So

1:24

it's that kind of a story and those are some of

1:26

the themes that we're going to be getting into today. Somewhat

1:30

coincidentally, our most recent bonus

1:32

episode is on the

1:35

recent Oscar nominated film

1:37

May December, which is a movie that

1:40

isn't but also basically is about

1:42

Mary Kayla Turnow. And I got

1:44

to talk about it over there with

1:46

Megan Burbank, our recent wonderful

1:49

guest for our episode on the

1:51

quote unquote pro life movement.

1:54

You can find that episode as always

1:56

on Patreon and Apple Plus subscriptions. Thanks

1:59

for joining us. Either episode.

2:06

Welcome To! You're wrong about the podcast

2:08

where I have a cold you have

2:10

a told everybody has a cold of

2:13

and with we save her really cool

2:15

hello and harmony do you have a

2:17

cold. Or don't have a

2:19

cold. I do have sinus problems

2:21

though cause to Los Angeles truly

2:24

should not go from like sixty

2:26

five degrees to ninety five degrees

2:28

and like a thirty six hour

2:30

window. The don't ask me to

2:32

do any falsetto singing in this

2:34

a couple days ago, maybe today

2:36

and not the pipes. Well that's

2:38

a little bit unfortunate because of

2:40

course our topic today is Sarah

2:42

of Insidious Chinese Him of God

2:44

Bless Tiny Tim. Yeah, some people

2:46

really know who that. Is some

2:49

people don't know? Some people are

2:51

thinking a Christmas carol. That of

2:53

my impression wishes that Chinese him.

2:56

Was. One of the many people. And events

2:58

so I learned about through the A

3:00

Swims, one hundred most shocking moments, and

3:02

Rock which I won many times. In

3:04

middle school for some reason you're trying

3:06

to unpack history. But. What I remember

3:08

for many the a swing helped him says of

3:10

all this that tiny Tim. Was. Kind

3:12

of a novelty act in I

3:15

wanna say the early seventies, sixties

3:17

and seventies? maybe? He was like

3:19

a very tall man who play the ukulele.

3:21

and had long hair and

3:23

the he married a teenager

3:25

and see the as the

3:27

assassin at the time. And

3:30

this was one of their most shocking

3:32

moments and rocks, I mean, it's it's

3:34

shocking, but then again everything about Tiny

3:36

is a. Shocking. Some

3:39

physically as far as good as you're wrong

3:41

about episode is concerned. Whatever.

3:43

You think about Tiny Tim, you're right and you're

3:45

also wrong. I love it. And if you don't

3:47

think anything about Highness have, you are also right

3:50

and wrong. Correct. And you're going to learn a

3:52

whole lot about this man and his. Quirks.

3:55

over the next period of time but

3:57

depending on how old you are you're

3:59

in introduction to him was either

4:01

his original run of unbelievable

4:04

superstardom in 1968, like

4:07

the biggest music star in like

4:10

the country that year. Really? Basically,

4:13

yes. Amazing. It's absurd. So

4:16

either you know him from that run, or

4:18

if you're a little bit younger,

4:20

you know him from a sad

4:22

and painful decline as a rambling

4:25

eccentric with very

4:27

conservative views over the course of several

4:29

sad decades. Or if you're

4:32

a little bit younger, you know him from doing

4:34

the song from the pilot episode of Spongebob.

4:38

Or if you're a little bit younger than

4:40

that, then you know him as the creepy

4:42

Yooka-Laylee guy who sings with ghosts in the

4:45

Insidious franchise. The ghosts just love

4:47

Tiny Tim. It's really ghostcore,

4:49

I guess, is what that movie is

4:51

saying. Yeah, I mean, for

4:53

what it's worth, that particular song

4:55

goes viral pretty routinely on TikTok

4:58

with girls doing creepy makeup tutorials.

5:01

Yeah. And there's something about it that

5:03

I think you can frame as kind

5:05

of creepy and over-the-top, but

5:07

it also feels just very sincere.

5:10

Oh, and every single thing about Tiny Tim

5:12

is sincere. He is a man who lived

5:15

his gimmick. Would you say that

5:17

he's part of the history of novelty acts?

5:19

Oh, extremely. Everything about

5:22

him is novelty, but

5:24

he was not designed to be a

5:26

novelty act. He didn't set out to

5:28

be a novelty act. The people who

5:31

were pushing him and marketing him didn't

5:33

necessarily want him to be a novelty

5:35

act. There was legitimate buzz around him

5:37

at the time of

5:39

his peak. So here's

5:42

a quick little background for everybody.

5:46

So in 1968, he's the biggest

5:48

music star in the country, mostly

5:50

through a lot of assistance

5:52

on late night television because he

5:54

was attacking both from music

5:57

and comedy fronts. It

6:00

through the Tulips is a top twenty

6:02

single, a peak that number seventeen. It's

6:04

parent album, God Bless Tiny Tim ends

6:07

up being a top ten hit with

6:09

several critics. Saying. That it

6:11

is one of the most musically

6:13

ambitious albums since The Beatles, Sergeant

6:15

Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, oh

6:17

the Beatles themselves are huge fans

6:19

of Tiny Tim. It makes sense.

6:22

He is also a huge

6:24

counter culture icon. Up

6:26

through his fame with people like

6:28

Bob Dylan and Lenny Bruce being

6:30

sued supporters. And

6:33

many of the crooners that

6:35

Tiny Tim considered his idols,

6:37

like Bing Crosby, especially and

6:39

Frank Sinatra were also impressed

6:41

because in addition to being

6:43

a spectacle and a tremendously

6:45

unique performer, Tiny Tim also

6:47

had an encyclopedic knowledge and

6:49

love for turn of the

6:51

century pop music. Such

6:54

as like lower some of his influences

6:56

that you know about. Sell. This.

6:59

Is a little before my time says. Because.

7:02

You're not a vampire, I am not

7:04

a vampire and I know the songs

7:06

much more can buy Tiny Tim covers

7:09

but Chinese favorites were like Rudy Vallee,

7:11

Rest Colombo, Bing Crosby and Rubber, and

7:13

Irving Kaufman. He

7:15

was actually a very, very big fan

7:18

of collecting seventy eighth and sheet music

7:20

as he grew up in the Heights

7:22

and spent a lot of time around

7:24

Tin Pan Alley collecting a very discarded

7:27

seventy eight that nobody paid any attention

7:29

to. Honestly, he spent all of his

7:31

money on sheet music and seventy eight

7:33

to the point where he would frequently

7:36

be broke. It makes sense. Yeah, so

7:38

sorry to do. And you wanna hear

7:40

about this man's miraculous burst? Do I

7:42

ever? Yes, how is he needs him

7:45

brought into our world? So I think

7:47

it's important when understanding his. Obsessives.

7:50

Nature so tiny. Tim was

7:52

born as Herbert Boutros Corey

7:54

on April twelfth, nineteen thirties

7:57

do. And his.

8:00

It was the a bit complicated in

8:02

that he actually had birthing complications because

8:04

the his mother needed to have it's

8:06

very inception in order to save her

8:08

life and the baby's life. And in

8:10

Nineteen Thirty Two that is. A.

8:12

Risky procedure to say the least. As

8:14

a result of it, a tiny or

8:16

a young Herbert as he would have

8:18

been named at the time suffers a

8:20

temporary loss of oxygen and according to

8:22

his third wife and widow miss to

8:24

see believe the circumstances left him and

8:26

I quote mildly autistic and pulls lead

8:28

and I mean the seems like a

8:30

very named him thirty two understanding of

8:32

Madison. I'm not out here trying to

8:34

diagnose the books, I'm certainly not a

8:36

doctor, but I'm gonna say that he

8:38

has. A. Lot of consistency

8:40

with neuron divergencies. It. Makes

8:43

sense that someone who became

8:45

such a superstar kind of

8:47

represents had some things that

8:49

mainstream culture both rejected and

8:51

secretly and a set as

8:54

important yes, mainstream culture. like.

8:56

The fascinating thing about that

8:58

is that. People. Definitely.

9:01

Saw him as a joke like

9:03

they were impressed by his. His.

9:06

his advisors acts they thought he

9:08

was insincere though the.it was a

9:10

put on they thought he would

9:13

raise putting on these of feminine

9:15

gay affections. He would be blowing

9:17

kisses and say and giggling and referring to

9:19

like all men and women by miss or

9:21

mister so it be like. Mr.

9:24

Carson as and Johnny Carson who is

9:26

all. I have many things to say

9:28

about Carson later on, but I don't

9:30

know how many people took him seriously

9:32

and that's kind of. The

9:34

biggest tragedy of this and this is

9:36

largely why I'm fascinated by him as

9:38

a characters because he is a giant

9:41

tragedy. Yeah, one we talked about

9:43

birthing kind of what? What was his early

9:45

last legs? So. His.

9:47

Mother telly phillies him he has

9:49

with force assistance till he was

9:52

that raised in an orthodox Jewish

9:54

family and only spoke Yiddish when

9:56

she moved the states. His father

9:59

a boot. It was a catholic

10:01

from lab at on which is. Also

10:04

have quite a rarity. They

10:06

were marxists and believed heavily

10:08

and communism. Ah, To

10:11

their family members, they. Were.

10:13

Kind of the original hippies because they

10:15

believed in free love. they didn't like

10:17

being told what to do. They ended

10:20

up just kind of free. We're when

10:22

it's as a couple until they got

10:24

pregnant in there like late thirties. So

10:27

tiny, had old parents and one of

10:29

the things he reflects upon from his

10:31

youth is that his parents believe in

10:33

free love with a strong that they

10:36

did not have. A. Door on their

10:38

bedroom so he would frequently have to walk by

10:40

and see them and listen to them having sex.

10:42

He gotta have a door at a certain point

10:44

and that's what I really think. Yeah, like actively

10:46

know people who are just like you know you

10:48

have the baby crib in the same room because

10:50

you live in a one bedroom apartment of like

10:52

other too young to remember but. There's

10:55

a certain age where it's like they're gonna

10:57

remember and they're gonna be cursed by about

11:00

over the age of twenty five. They definitely

11:02

know what's going on. You know this? As

11:04

an assistant. So

11:06

tiny parents did not

11:09

necessarily want their child.

11:11

To. We in particular was embarrassed of

11:14

him because compared to his cousins,

11:16

he was not as outgoing. He

11:18

was not as good in school.

11:20

He was not as athletic. And

11:23

he did not end up leaving

11:26

the house until. Quite. A

11:28

bit into his adulthood, he he dropped

11:30

out of school, seventeenth worked a lot

11:32

of menial jobs and would frequently get

11:35

fired from them for just quitting or

11:37

because he was growing out his long

11:39

hair and putting on makeup and using

11:41

feminine hygiene products just like hormone cream

11:44

used by old ladies to prevent aging

11:46

and various lotions with feminine sense. So.

11:49

Well. i mean who doesn't love a

11:51

salmon and sense i mean it's probably nicer

11:53

than whatever guys sense were at the time

11:55

i can't imagine what a word guy sense

11:57

at the time what year is this like

12:00

the 40s and 50s like yeah so

12:02

the guy sense were like gun

12:05

we're guys doing sense had we evolved

12:07

like sandalwood yet I don't think we

12:09

I feel like sandalwood I don't know

12:12

I mean there's definitely

12:14

cologne mm-hmm right but like what

12:16

does it smell like I don't

12:18

know if you or someone you

12:21

know has worn cologne from the

12:23

40s please file a claim

12:25

at this address I

12:27

imagine it's one of those things where if

12:30

you ever find like an old bottle of Avon that's

12:32

from like you know decades old and it's

12:34

just turned to pure alcohol so

12:38

you had to be there yeah you

12:40

always had to be there so okay so

12:42

he's sort of considered a bit of

12:44

a lumpy baby I guess you know how sometimes

12:47

he just got a lumpy baby mm-hmm and you

12:49

gotta just love that lumpy baby cuz we're all

12:51

lumpy in one way or another yes absolutely

12:54

he is just the lumpiest of

12:56

babies especially because he develops

12:59

appendicitis and has to get surgery

13:02

and he takes that as a humbling lesson

13:04

from God oh and

13:06

then stops being athletic

13:09

and just does not perform

13:11

anything more than walking and

13:13

doing maybe like five sit-ups

13:16

in the morning so he

13:18

becomes a very lumpy boy

13:20

and you know and it's hard to feel

13:22

like people are ashamed of you because of

13:24

your lack of accomplishment because you

13:27

know it's kind of a can I live

13:29

situation the answer is

13:31

no you're not allowed to right yeah

13:33

no you cannot you have to be

13:35

impressive as well yes exactly especially because

13:37

I there's extensive research I've read about

13:40

I've read about gramophones I've read about

13:42

the electric microphone I came more prepared

13:44

for this than anything in my life

13:46

I'm so excited there's so much about

13:48

success and cleanliness that ties

13:51

in with the fact that he was

13:53

a depression-era baby and that

13:56

his parents were of like that silent generation

13:58

where they don't talk and they don't communicate

14:01

things unless they're screaming. So there was a love

14:03

for success to

14:06

prove them wrong, just so he

14:08

could get out of poverty, get out of his parents' house.

14:11

Like these are all very, very

14:13

wistful dreams to be having, right? Like

14:15

that's a relatable experience even if you're

14:17

not obsessed with soap because you don't

14:19

want to be perceived as like a

14:21

dirty poor person from the Depression. Yeah,

14:24

no, I mean, these are all human dynamics

14:26

that recur endlessly. They show up maybe more

14:29

in particular time periods, but I don't think

14:31

they ever go away. When

14:33

does he leave home? He

14:35

does not eventually end up leaving home until the

14:37

60s. So he is in his 30s by that

14:42

point. He's been grinding

14:44

away on nightclub circuits

14:47

for all of the 50s, most

14:49

of the 60s. He ends

14:51

up eventually leaving home in the late

14:53

60s to go to California. By that

14:55

point, he is, I believe, like 36

14:57

years old. Good for him.

15:01

I mean, at 36 years old, it feels like

15:03

one of those things where it's like, dang,

15:05

that's a little old. But then again,

15:07

my generation is having to go back to

15:10

live with their parents because we're all being

15:12

financially ruined. So it's honestly more relatable

15:14

now than it was at the time.

15:16

It's so true. Yeah, everything else is

15:18

new again. And also, it feels

15:20

like the world is really

15:22

pretty intimidating to operate in. And

15:25

it makes sense that it takes some

15:28

people longer than others to

15:30

achieve. And the kind of independence that

15:32

we think of is what makes sense

15:35

for everybody, but which is pretty difficult.

15:38

Sometimes you're just not

15:40

intersecting. And in the case

15:42

of someone like Tiny Tim, he's not

15:45

changed that much from being

15:47

a boy. He's the ultimate

15:49

Peter Pan boy who just

15:52

doesn't want to grow up. When asked about his

15:54

age later, he would describe himself as ageless or

15:56

I feel like I'm 19 forever. But

16:00

I don't think that like he became a

16:02

superstar because like he was primed

16:04

for it per se, like there's a whole lot

16:06

of things that go into that. But I think

16:08

it's just times caught up with him. Like

16:11

for a moment, like he was just following

16:13

the same trajectory for a long time. And

16:16

eventually, him being this like, long

16:18

haired, effeminate, flower

16:21

child like person is spewing things about

16:23

beautiful feelings and love and wanting to

16:25

like kiss all of the girls out

16:27

there that he thinks are charming and

16:30

eating pumpkin seeds and wheat germ

16:32

out of a bowl with honey

16:35

and just seeming like the ultimate

16:37

precious little hippie. Yeah. Like

16:39

come the late 60s, that's exactly

16:41

where the zeitgeist met him finally. Huh.

16:45

Yeah. Wow. Okay,

16:47

so like how do things like take off for

16:49

him? Oh, God, it's just so much

16:51

toiling. So Tiny tries to

16:53

make it as a singer, singing it

16:55

like company parties for various jobs he's

16:58

working at. No one pays attention

17:00

to his voice. And then one

17:02

dark and stormy night, he's singing along to

17:04

a duet of himself from the

17:06

movie Manhattan Mary Go Around, which like I'm

17:09

going to probably mention a lot of songs

17:11

and musicals and shows that no one's ever

17:13

listened to unless you're a big music dork

17:15

or very old. Mm hmm. Perfect.

17:19

He's doing a duet with himself and finds out he

17:21

can go very, very high and sing in a very

17:23

high voice for the female parts.

17:26

And excitedly, he decides I'm going to show this to

17:28

my parents. And up till

17:30

this point, they've had a tumultuous relationship. They're

17:32

pretty embarrassed of him. They're not pleased with

17:34

him, especially his long hair and makeup. And

17:38

they are very

17:40

unamused by his high pitched quote,

17:42

sissy singing style. Oh my God.

17:45

So the worst thing your child can

17:47

be. A sissy? Oh, of course. Especially

17:49

when you're supposed to be a man. A manly man

17:51

at that. A six foot one manly man. Huh.

17:55

Nothing better than a large sissy, I always say.

17:57

You know, I have a lot of affection for

17:59

sissy. Do you know

18:01

the part in the celluloid closet where

18:03

they're talking about the sissy archetype? Do

18:05

you remember that? Not offhand

18:08

now. Well, there's a screenwriter who's

18:10

like, it was so offensive. It

18:12

was so terrible. It was like,

18:14

it was, you know, just awful

18:16

that they had this archetype in movies.

18:18

And then it cuts to

18:20

Harvey Firestein going, I like

18:23

the sissies. I feel

18:25

you Harvey. Yeah. Yeah. That's

18:27

just, I don't know. I appreciate anything showing,

18:30

you know, just people having differing opinions and

18:32

both of them making sense. I

18:35

feel like that's the most compelling thing is like

18:37

where you can see where someone's coming from and

18:39

it's not totally unfounded. Also just

18:41

like there's a lot of camp to be

18:43

found in like sissy archetypes and like very

18:45

effeminate male characters to

18:48

the point of exaggerated characteristics. But

18:50

like, obviously you could say is

18:52

homophobic to an extent, but they're

18:54

also sometimes really funny. Sometimes

18:57

they're really endearing. It's not a one size fits

18:59

all in that sense. Right. And

19:01

like, I feel like two different people can look

19:03

at the same piece of media kind of produced

19:05

during a time of general discrimination

19:08

and can differ as to

19:10

whether it's laughing at or

19:12

laughing with, I guess. And

19:15

that's, I don't know. I think that's good. I think that's

19:17

a user error or like

19:19

just like any art, it's all

19:21

interpretive. Speaking of

19:24

that, he learns to play the ukulele

19:26

mostly so that he can accompany him

19:28

to the himself when he goes to

19:30

ill fated auditions for like My Fair

19:32

Lady or South Pacific because then he

19:34

doesn't have to suffer the indignity of

19:37

going and giving the sheet music, them playing

19:39

a few bars and then going next and

19:42

rejecting him immediately and then going, okay, can

19:44

I get my sheet music back like really

19:46

awkwardly and then leave? He

19:48

learned to play the ukulele so that he

19:51

didn't have to deal with that. Incredible.

19:53

That's really smart. Here's

19:55

the thing. He's like got a lot of little

19:57

clever eccentricities that I think are kind of

20:00

Great like a boy when he was playing

20:02

baseball. he's right handed but would play ukulele

20:04

left handed and wood bat left handed because

20:06

he was not a very fast runner and

20:08

it would give him an extra step or

20:10

two towards the plate says. Oh My.

20:12

God. Like there's like there's this charming

20:14

little things that I just think I

20:16

need to say but com his many

20:18

failed auditions and show business and. Paying.

20:21

On street corners and for amateur

20:23

singing nights and being viciously heckled

20:25

by people who do not. Care.

20:28

For whatever it is he is. He

20:31

ends up securing a are paying gig

20:33

at a lesbian own bar called Page

20:35

Three in the early sixties. Of course

20:37

he does out the gazed love them.

20:40

Mr. Vaz. And

20:43

like let what is his. Repertoire like when

20:45

he Is I Live performer.

20:47

It's primarily Tin Pan Alley

20:49

numbers so a lot of

20:51

these like Ra Ra America

20:53

songs and a lot of

20:55

classic romance song. Okay so.

20:58

Particularly. When he for firing a page

21:00

three They Love. These very

21:03

American numbers. They love These. Female.

21:06

Numbers: One of the most popular and

21:08

there's a very old bootleg performance of

21:10

this is the song I'm Happy Being

21:12

a girl from the musical Flower Drum

21:15

Some oh I enjoy being a girl.

21:17

I think Train: Yes Yes that. Oh

21:19

my God. So he read those lyrics.

21:21

I think that that would be very

21:24

fun. oh I have already is this

21:26

is the lyrics Are. When. I

21:28

have a brand new hairdo and my

21:30

eyelashes all and curls. I float as

21:32

the clouds on air do. I enjoy

21:34

being a girl. When men say I'm

21:36

cute and funny and my teeth aren't

21:39

like teeth but pearls Has I just

21:41

lap it up like honey? I enjoy

21:43

being a girl. Ah, at such

21:45

a great sign. I remember spending

21:47

a lot of time and about

21:49

eighth grade singing both this Sign

21:52

and I Feel Pretty West Side

21:54

Story also popular and his repertoire

21:56

during this time. and of course

21:58

sweet Transvestite. Okay,

22:02

so I love the So. He's like

22:04

kind of a sissy broadway novelty act.

22:06

Yeah. Perfectly that he's like of

22:09

a Norman Rockwell would drifter version

22:11

of a broadway acts and this

22:13

performing these like very classic. Had

22:15

a road numbers with a lot

22:17

and season though and these do

22:19

when and these American songs in

22:21

the singing style that he is.

22:24

Everyone. Is convinced he's making fun of.

22:27

Cetera, Sexuality and gender norms.

22:29

And. The entire country.

22:31

Perfect. Which deserves it? Yeah,

22:34

absolutely. And I think that's fascinating

22:36

at a itself under think about

22:38

because he's being totally sincere. Right

22:40

to see signs of fund a

22:42

saying. And. One does enjoy

22:45

being a girl. If Ronald Reagan had seen this

22:47

as he would have had a heart attack and

22:49

and died right there. God if only. History.

22:53

Will be completely different. Yeah, so

22:55

unfortunately Tiny, being sincere as he

22:57

is, am and I'm not. Fully.

23:00

Sure, he understands how brilliant his act

23:02

is at this point. in much the

23:04

way that when he first started putting

23:06

on makeup girls stop ignoring him and

23:08

started to point laugh at him and

23:11

he thought that have was better than

23:13

nothing. Fairness? Yeah, yeah, just been a

23:15

clown, you know? Yeah. But that tiny

23:17

was not a flower child, he was

23:20

not. You know, this far less. Radical.

23:22

Like everyone seem to think he was. He.

23:25

Actually was quite conservative and

23:27

deeply religious. Now. Despite

23:29

his parents taking him to church

23:31

and synagogues, as a Uti didn't

23:34

get into religion until he got

23:36

a bit older. That. Was

23:38

at twenty years old I believe

23:40

because he hears as the of

23:42

Reverend Jack. Worse than Whites

23:44

Markson I don't know exact now pronounce

23:46

his name but death. This man is

23:49

very much a Billy Graham site. oh

23:51

no he's very fire and brimstone

23:53

me and tiny being a very

23:56

lonely boy who doesn't go outside

23:58

and stays in his bedroom room,

24:00

avoiding his parents having sex and

24:03

fighting and all of the

24:05

unpleasantness of the outside world that is mean

24:07

to his little effeminate self. He

24:09

stays inside and comes up with fairy

24:11

tales and idolizes a young

24:13

Elizabeth Taylor and Shirley Temple and

24:16

reads comic books and sing songs but

24:18

is very lonely and makes him a

24:21

very, very easy mark for, you know,

24:23

religious indoctrination. Yeah.

24:27

And there's just like, I don't know, there's always

24:30

gonna be scary social movements

24:32

trying to take advantage of lonely boys.

24:35

Right. Everyone's just lost and scared and looking

24:37

for answers and some of them

24:39

end up in QAnon. Yeah. And

24:42

it's just like, I don't know, I guess it's based

24:44

on a lot of factors and one of them is

24:46

what kind of stuff is available. Now,

24:49

fortunately, he mostly is keeping this

24:51

to himself. It's very much a

24:53

I'm not gonna judge, you know,

24:55

people for their beliefs, I will let God

24:58

judge them and it's being cool about it.

25:00

Like, it's not a problem. He's very

25:02

lovely to be around. Everyone always has nothing but

25:04

good things to say about his polite company. All

25:07

of the women who love women at page

25:09

three like to invite him to parties because

25:11

they think he's just a hoot. And

25:14

Tiny likes to be invited

25:16

because those women have no interest in

25:18

having sex with him and he doesn't have to give

25:20

over to temptation. This

25:24

is going to be recurring things for his personal

25:27

life moving forward, by the way. And

25:29

I don't feel optimistic about it,

25:31

I gotta say. So this is a

25:34

step up from him previously working in

25:36

a flee circus as the human canary,

25:38

where he worked with lobster boys

25:40

and bearded women and elephant men and

25:43

various other quote freaks of the day.

25:45

This is better. This is a good period for him

25:47

up to this point in the 60s. He

25:50

eventually becomes such an after hours icon.

25:52

He starts working at clubs called the

25:54

Fat Black Pussycat and the

25:56

theme which are very happen in places in

25:58

like the Greenwich Village area. He

26:01

appears in alternative avant-garde

26:03

films around this era,

26:06

like Flaming Creatures and You Are What You

26:08

Eat. He was filmed

26:10

by Andy Warhol, who thought he was just,

26:12

again, fascinating. He became friends

26:14

with Bob Dylan in A Passing Friendship,

26:17

and Bob Dylan intended on making a

26:19

movie about a circus where Tiny was

26:21

going to be the ringmaster. Perfect. So

26:23

he's just hobnobbing and doing all this

26:25

stuff, and he's just an overall lovely

26:28

man. And he has his

26:30

big break and moves out of his parents' house in California,

26:32

and now we're caught up to here. How

26:35

you feeling about this story? Oh boy.

26:37

I mean, I, you know, I

26:39

don't know how a person seeks emotional

26:42

balance in all this, but I

26:45

both want him to and suspect that he

26:47

won't. Well, I suppose I gave

26:49

it away early that his life is

26:52

a tragedy. Yeah, yeah, that's true. It's

26:54

not exactly like I'm an arch detective.

26:57

No, but I'm not going

26:59

to try to like psychoanalyze someone, but one

27:01

of Tiny's biggest faults is that he's very

27:03

trusting of authority, and that's

27:05

why he trusts, you know, cultish

27:08

pastors. That's why he has

27:10

a little too much faith in America. That's

27:12

why he loves God as

27:15

much as he does. Most of this information,

27:17

if you're curious, is either documented from, you

27:19

know, archives or is cataloged

27:22

in the book, The Eternal Troubadour, The

27:24

Improbable Life of Tiny Tim by Justin

27:26

Martell, which I read 450 pages

27:29

of for this, and it was a lot.

27:32

But Tiny ended up keeping a journal through most

27:34

of his life about

27:38

his relationship with God. It

27:40

was his personal way of talking to God.

27:42

And for the most part, it's sincere

27:44

because not, he's not writing

27:46

it with the understanding that anyone is going to read it at

27:49

any point. So it's mostly

27:51

him just being tortured and lonely

27:53

and feeling the need to fall

27:55

to sin while also wanting to make it

27:57

in the big time. It's

28:00

quite sad but things start to happen in 68 some

28:03

buzz happens He goes to California

28:05

and he gets signed to reprie's

28:07

records, which is Frank Sinatra's label

28:09

and it's a subsidiary of Warner

28:11

Brothers Okay, so this is really

28:13

the big time. Oh just immediately the big time

28:15

and it's just like how does he feel about

28:18

this? What do we know about that? Oh, he's

28:20

tickled. He just thinks like this is my big break

28:23

but hopefully this one won't go belly up like all

28:25

my other big breaks prior to this he had been

28:27

on the Merv Griffin show and They

28:30

had intended on bringing tiny back for

28:32

more comedy appearances on that but they were

28:34

sent hundreds of hateful letters going Why

28:36

would you put that thing on TV?

28:38

Oh God? So those

28:41

additional appearance did not materialize.

28:43

So America has really been

28:45

gradually Trying to

28:47

catch up with his existence for many

28:49

years basically. Yes And

28:52

apparently 68 was just the

28:54

exact right time for it Wow,

28:56

so he makes his debut album called

28:58

God Bless Tiny Tim It is

29:01

a dreamscape of pop songs most of

29:03

which are obscure ones from his past

29:05

repertoire But there are some contemporary ones

29:07

like him singing a duet of I

29:09

got you babe by Sonny and

29:11

Cher with himself. Mmm Oh,

29:13

okay. Incredible. He so he recorded

29:16

his debut

29:18

solo album God Bless Tiny Tim and As

29:21

promotions, they don't really know what

29:24

to do with a guy like this Mm-hmm.

29:26

There's no precedent for how to

29:28

market a person like this

29:30

making weird music where he does weird

29:32

voices And they're all

29:34

these obscure covers and like one early

29:36

Paul Williams number called fill your heart

29:39

Right. None of the previous marketing models are

29:41

going to really help. You know what to

29:43

do. It seems like not even

29:45

slightly. So What

29:48

they do is they take him to late night

29:50

and they start showcasing him Kind

29:52

of as a comedy act so he does

29:55

like laughing like an early an

29:57

early episode of laughing he goes over well where

29:59

his really takes off is when he appears

30:01

on The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson. And Carson

30:06

does not know what to do with this man. He

30:09

is very confused,

30:11

very baffled, very speechless.

30:14

Tiny is giving a lot of feminine hand

30:16

gestures, blowing the crowd kisses because he saw

30:18

Elizabeth Taylor blow him a kiss once as

30:21

a small child. And he's like, oh, I'm

30:23

gonna do that. I'm gonna blow kisses to

30:25

the crowd because I love them. Well, of

30:27

course, the crowd loves kisses. They do. And

30:29

it makes his act kind of genius and

30:32

also very bizarre for the time.

30:34

And no one knows what to do with

30:36

him. So they just let him talk. And

30:38

that's just what people do with Tiny is they

30:40

just let him talk about whatever he wants. So

30:42

he talks about his diet. He talks about how

30:44

he likes to impress girls. And he wishes to

30:46

go on dates, but he can't because he just

30:48

has no time to go on dates. Because, you

30:50

know, if the Dodgers or the Toronto Maple leaves

30:52

are playing like he has to support them. And

30:54

at one point, he gets so worked up into

30:56

a frenzy, he starts cheering and Johnny Carson like

30:58

just looks like, Oh, God, what is this guy?

31:01

Like you see die

31:03

inside. And he

31:05

performs three songs. The opening is tiptoe

31:07

through the tulips, which he had previously

31:10

performed on laughing. He does living in

31:12

the sunlight, loving in the moonlight, which

31:14

you might know from the time of

31:16

the Spongebob pilot. And he

31:18

closes it with a song called ever since

31:21

you told me that you love me. I'm a nut. And

31:24

that three minutes of this show is one

31:26

of the most perfect comedy bits you

31:29

will ever see. Because it's

31:32

tiny singing lyrics about how

31:35

he's got to find a doctor because there's something

31:37

wrong with him whilst also singing in a high

31:39

pitch rapid tone about birds and how the birds

31:41

are coming. And people are going, What

31:43

is this? And then there's

31:45

a lyric of I feel so queer, since

31:48

you are near dear and the crowd goes,

31:50

Oh my God, that is what and they

31:52

just find it hilarious. And

31:55

as he makes this dramatic exit to a

31:57

thunder of applause, he gets trapped to

32:00

like fumble his way out because he got

32:02

lost and is now stuck in the curtains.

32:05

You know, that has happened to me, I

32:07

gotta say. Has it? Curtains are hard.

32:09

They are. You know,

32:11

so you get a little frazzled in

32:13

there. Yeah. Over the

32:16

course of Johnny Carson's run

32:18

on that show, Tiny would reappear on The Tonight

32:20

Show alone 20 different times. Huh.

32:23

So he did win The Tonight Show, really.

32:26

Oh, yeah. And he would

32:28

be on Jackie Gleason. He was

32:30

on Ed Sullivan. He was

32:32

on every single late night show

32:34

working circuits. And I think

32:36

that that's one reason, like hindsight's 20-20 as

32:38

far as like a career is concerned. But

32:41

working these comedy shows

32:43

and primarily working comedic

32:45

bookings makes people

32:47

not realize that Tiny

32:50

was actually a well-seasoned and traveled performer

32:52

of the last 15 years who worked

32:54

in like seedy nightclubs forever and like

32:56

honed his craft. And he

32:59

did very well. He got extremely good reviews

33:01

when he would perform live. Initially

33:04

crowds would be confused and maybe laugh

33:06

once he like hit his peak. But

33:08

he actually was a

33:10

very good performer. He

33:13

knew how to work the crowd. Super duper well. Yeah.

33:16

I love the idea that he had like built

33:18

up his abilities for years

33:20

and years and years and finally

33:22

had a big stage to perform

33:24

on. Oh, for sure. I think misunderstanding

33:27

him as a comedy

33:29

act rather than, you know, I

33:31

wouldn't say a serious artist, but

33:33

a sincere artist is

33:35

definitely a big mistake with him. But

33:38

also he got too big too quick and they started to

33:40

put him into large arenas. At

33:42

his peak, he was pulling in approximately

33:45

$50,000 a week from bookings in 60s money.

33:50

Wow. Yes. And

33:52

that's a high estimate that's largely built off of

33:54

a one week engagement he had working in Vegas

33:57

and tiny working Vegas showroom.

34:00

rooms, not exactly the best thing for

34:02

him, like nothing ruins comedy like arenas.

34:04

But the shows were still really well received. Unfortunately,

34:08

Tiny being a trusting man that he is,

34:10

didn't see most of that money he was

34:12

making. Yeah, what happened? So

34:14

depending on who you ask, there's

34:17

a lot of reasons for it. But

34:19

Tiny was making about $100

34:21

a week in allowance at his peak. And

34:24

some of the management said that like, Oh, most of

34:26

the money went on to putting on the Vegas show.

34:28

So you didn't actually get to see that money because

34:31

it had to be put into the act.

34:33

Other people have said like, Oh, well, you know, we had a

34:35

bunch of legal fees because you signed like 30 contracts

34:38

before you signed to reprieve because you were just

34:40

willing to like put your name on anything. So

34:42

we have to get all of those like lawsuits

34:44

out of the way. Other people say like, I'm

34:46

trying to put aside money for you. So you

34:48

have something to rest on. If this ever goes

34:50

belly up. Some people said that

34:53

Tiny was being a little too lavish with his

34:55

money and ordering too much room service because he

34:57

was just ordering everything on the menu and tipping

34:59

like the bell boys like $80 and

35:02

doing that. And I

35:04

think the truth is some mixture of all of

35:06

these things. But the fact of

35:08

the matter is that like, Tiny wasn't seeing most

35:11

of the money he was making. Yeah, like, you

35:13

know, seems pretty, if not standard for the

35:15

period or for the industry generally, then at least

35:17

something that recurs a lot. And we know that

35:19

from watching the H1. It's

35:21

true. I think especially when it comes to

35:23

like, you know, what would be a novelty

35:26

act like this, the industry has no interest

35:28

in maintaining this act. They just

35:30

want to make as much money as they can in

35:32

the window they can and then get in and get

35:34

out. Yeah. And I think

35:36

that that is the case for someone

35:39

like Tiny. Albeit, they did try to

35:41

put an effort with a second album

35:43

and follow up singles. Here's a fun

35:45

story because BJ, my wife and I

35:47

were trying to unwrap a mystery about

35:49

Tiny Tim's second album. Nice. So

35:52

I have it here on the camera. As you can see it,

35:54

this is him with his parents. They do not look pleased to

35:56

be there because they're very embarrassed of their child. So

35:58

something I didn't realize when I bought. This is that

36:01

my company signs. What's.

36:04

Yeah it says from

36:07

bad to diana. And

36:09

it's as to miss Diana. A.

36:11

Second half? Who for you Tiny Tim

36:14

with the numbers two, two, seven, six

36:16

nine and. Mind. You I've spent years

36:18

trying to figure out what does he even said. Much.

36:21

Less what the clue means right? My wife

36:23

with like. Two, two,

36:25

Seven. Six Nine, it's a date and

36:27

I had to go into this book and

36:29

then unwrap the mystery of what happens on

36:31

that day Cause I bought the I bought

36:33

this record in Cleveland and as best as

36:35

I can figure based on dates, he performed

36:37

in Cleveland that day. So it's basically someone

36:39

going like, oh, when are you going to

36:41

be in town next Ah, That's

36:43

nice. I do hold out the theory

36:46

that this is the clues who the

36:48

location of Hate him? A traitor? That

36:50

off only. Yeah. So.

36:53

Yeah, the the label did try to

36:55

make an effort with a second followup

36:57

single as they released a song called

36:59

Bring Back Those Rocca by Baby Days.

37:02

And. It's a

37:04

single that was largely probably chosen

37:06

by Tiny because it's original erase

37:08

and is a mammy song, but

37:11

I don't think that See knew

37:13

much about why that would be

37:15

a problem to release as a

37:17

single in the sixties. The.

37:19

Fall of Single is Great Balls of

37:22

Fire by Jerry Lee Lewis. It also

37:24

stands out in the lower end of

37:26

the top one hundred. The follow up

37:28

sell ads it's also released at the

37:30

time is an album called Concert and

37:32

Fairyland. It is an unofficial bootleg that

37:35

silva hundred thousand copies before it is

37:37

pulled from sells. It is a going

37:39

had previously shelved album from a past

37:41

Tiny Tim alter ego called Buried Over

37:43

Know in which he was very very

37:46

upset with the recording conditions and decided

37:48

to tank the recording session. By singing

37:50

asked he. Has. and then

37:52

they sped it up to matches falsetto

37:54

now and added crowd noise so it

37:57

sounds like it's actually a real concert

37:59

that sells hellish to listen

38:01

to. It's not good. So,

38:04

again, hindsight is 20-20, there's a lot

38:06

of things wrong with some

38:08

of the releases, some of which are

38:10

absolutely the fault of management, some are

38:12

Tiny's fault, some are beyond their control.

38:15

But in any case, the second album does not take

38:17

off. That said, Tiny is still a

38:19

very hot property. He does successful

38:22

tours in England. He performs at

38:24

the Royal Albert Hall with a

38:26

72-piece orchestra. He

38:28

writes a book, calling it a

38:30

memoir might be generous. It's more of what

38:32

would be a blog entry in the internet

38:34

age because it's just him with a lot

38:37

of rambling thoughts about beautiful things. Perfect. He

38:39

does a book tour and while he's on this book

38:41

tour, he meets a woman in the crowd. Her

38:44

name is Vicky Buttinger

38:48

and she goes on to be known as

38:50

Miss Vicky, the woman that he

38:52

would marry on Johnny Carson with

38:54

50 million people watching. Unbelievable.

38:57

So Johnny Carson got over his

38:59

initial distaste enough to let

39:02

him have a wedding on his show. That's kind

39:04

of nice. It was Carson's idea. Oh,

39:06

Johnny. Oh my God. And so,

39:08

okay, what's Vicky's situation? We simply

39:10

must know. Vicky is a 17-year-old girl.

39:14

She is, by

39:17

all accounts, cute, but very plain,

39:20

a normal girl. Vicky

39:23

is smitten with her, immediately falls

39:25

head over heels in love with

39:27

her and says like very quickly

39:30

on in them interacting, we

39:32

should be married. At this point,

39:34

she is 17. He is 37. I

39:37

shouldn't really have to say what's wrong with

39:39

that, but I guess let's just do it

39:41

anyway. Just don't

39:43

marry children if you're not a

39:46

child. Don't have relationships with them

39:48

romantically. Just

39:50

don't do it. Just don't do it.

39:53

I agree. I suppose

39:55

for clarity's sake, I do not like this. I

39:57

don't like a lot of things about Tiny as

39:59

a Man. I find

40:01

him fascinating and

40:04

pitiable. That's my sentiment on

40:06

him. Also, there is this little sensation of like,

40:09

but someone could have saved him. I know.

40:11

Well, that's how I feel about a lot of

40:13

the men. I've spent a lot of time learning

40:15

about, you know, like Robespierre. Mm-hmm. I

40:18

don't know, but Vicky's parents seem to

40:20

think he's quite lovely and they

40:23

want their daughter to have a happy life. They're like, you know

40:25

what? He's rich. He's famous. Sure. He

40:27

comes over for family dinner. He's very polite.

40:30

He gets along with everyone. Tiny

40:32

publicly is very evasive about his

40:34

age because he's a Peter

40:36

Pan boy. It's like, yeah, but

40:38

sweetie, you know, come on. There's a limit

40:40

to how much you can fudge that. Oh,

40:43

I agree. They were originally going to have a

40:46

modest wedding and Johnny

40:48

Carson, I think, not being serious about it,

40:50

said, Tiny, why don't you have the wedding

40:53

on the show? And he

40:55

was like, oh, that's great. Then we don't have to pay for

40:57

it. Well, that's a good point. I think

40:59

we need a clip right about now, don't you? Oh,

41:02

absolutely. Nice. Okay. Three,

41:05

two, one, go. And

41:08

I'll hear the moment you've been waiting

41:10

for, which a lot of people thought would not come to pass

41:12

on this show, but it did. The

41:14

wedding of Mr. Tiny Tim and Miss Vicky Buttinger.

41:18

The wedding of Mr. Tiny

41:20

Tim. Eerily

41:29

beloved, we are gathered here

41:32

in the presence of Christ

41:34

to join this man, Herbert

41:36

Buckingham Corey, and this

41:38

woman, Victoria Mae Buttinger, in

41:42

holy marriage. That is who. The

41:44

minister of the church, I

41:46

do now declare that ye are

41:49

husband and wife, and

41:53

whom therefore God hath joined together, let

41:55

no man put asunder. And

41:58

the Lord bless thee and keep thee. this

42:01

day and unto

42:03

the end. Amen. Speaker,

42:06

how do you feel? These

42:18

are dumb questions to ask newly married people.

42:20

I know that, but somebody always does. How

42:22

does Brian supposed to feel? Was

42:25

it easy enough for you? Were you comfortable? Tiny,

42:31

I didn't get the kiss the bride. Is that

42:33

all right? Oh, oh.

42:36

Do you mind? I mean, would you? Oh,

42:38

no. I mean, it's customary.

42:40

She's a good kisser. She's

42:51

a good kisser. The

42:54

poor tiny child. Mm

42:59

hmm. Wow. Well, according to

43:02

this random YouTube description, this was the second

43:04

highest rated TV broadcast of the 1960s. Behind

43:08

the moon landing. You never hear

43:10

about that. That's I think

43:13

why it made it onto your most shocking things

43:15

in rock and roll list. Why

43:17

did so many people want to watch

43:20

the novelty act and the little girl get

43:22

married? Oh, who knows? But

43:24

sources would later estimate that a whopping

43:26

45 to 50 million

43:28

people tuned in to watch the

43:30

prerecorded program because they originally

43:33

wanted to get married on either Christmas Eve or Christmas

43:35

Day and they couldn't because the

43:37

show was going to be on break during that. So

43:39

they got married during the day on, I believe, the

43:41

18th. And then

43:43

it aired that night in New York.

43:45

Eighty four percent of the people who

43:47

have TV and were watching it that

43:49

night tuned into the wedding and con

43:51

Edison had to provide extra power to

43:53

handle the overload. No. In

43:55

Chicago, the police reported a reduced

43:58

crime rate while in Los Angeles. there

44:00

was reportedly less traffic on the road.

44:03

This was the zenith of Tiny's career as

44:05

a performer. Johnny Carson, meanwhile, would not break

44:07

that night's ratings high until his final appearance

44:09

on the show in 1992. Why

44:12

did so many people want to see a

44:15

wedding? I mean, I guess people always want

44:17

to see a wedding. Ross and Rachel, Luke

44:19

and Laura, Charles and Diana, these guys.

44:22

But why? You know, I couldn't

44:25

tell you the exact reason, but part of

44:27

it is that people did

44:29

not think Tiny was serious. They thought this

44:31

was an act. They thought he

44:34

was gay. So they're like, oh, he's marrying someone? Oh,

44:36

it's a girl. Oh, I have to tune in to

44:38

see this because I just thought he was gay

44:40

the whole time. So

44:42

people were trying to expose him throughout

44:44

all of 68 and 69 going

44:46

like, well, there's got to be something about him. And,

44:49

you know, they didn't get into his politics. But as

44:52

far as like who he is as a

44:54

person and living his gimmick, it's genuine. At

44:56

one point, the FBI even investigated him because

44:58

they're like, why are you so popular suddenly?

45:00

And also you're on like Frank Sinatra's label.

45:02

Are you connected to the mob? Let's

45:06

assume that Tiny Tim was working with the

45:08

mob. I would love to know what he

45:10

was responsible for within that. So

45:13

fun story. He did get involved with the

45:15

mob later on. Okay,

45:18

well, perfect. We'll

45:20

get to that when we get to

45:22

the 70s. Yep. We're not quite there

45:24

yet. Well, it's like a Scorsese movie.

45:26

We're hurtling toward the 70s and the

45:29

mob stuff. Yep. It's precisely that. So

45:32

whilst I think that there's a lot

45:34

wrong with a grown man marrying a

45:36

literal child on national television like this.

45:39

So on the same page, Tiny

45:42

writes in his diary about the

45:44

age difference between Vicky and why

45:46

he would even pursue

45:48

her. in

46:00

which Satan's will may have already placed in

46:02

our heart. Oh, my. He

46:04

questioned his own desires as well. What

46:07

did Vicki possess of specific value to

46:09

Tiny? Just as he had silenced those

46:11

who said he would never become famous,

46:13

he suspected that part of him aimed

46:15

to silence those who felt he could

46:17

not land a beautiful woman. He worked

46:19

through his thoughts in his diary, admitting

46:21

that he had always wanted a beautiful

46:23

woman of his own ideals in looks

46:25

and stature, which Miss Vicki is. He

46:28

wondered, am I really using Miss Vicki

46:30

as an object for my own conquest

46:32

egotistically? So he is

46:35

he's at least somewhat self-aware. Yeah. And

46:37

that kind of makes it worse. Yeah,

46:40

right. It's like, could it be the thing that it

46:42

is? Yeah. So

46:45

he ends up declaring these vows

46:47

on this highly rated show that

46:49

also features Phyllis Diller and Florence

46:51

Henderson. And they and Johnny

46:53

Carson kept rolling their eyes the entire time

46:55

because they did not believe that

46:58

this was serious. They thought it was just a publicity

47:00

stunt and a joke, which

47:02

it was definitely publicity stunt by Taney,

47:05

but also by Carson. So there's equal

47:07

parties on that. Right. They go to

47:09

a wedding across the street

47:11

in which they are mobbed by

47:13

reporters and fans. Their wedding presents

47:15

are stolen. Oh. And when they

47:17

go ahead and get into their limo

47:20

to drive away, Tiny, who had

47:22

just declared that he would always

47:24

be faithful and love Miss Vicki

47:26

forever, said, oh, by the

47:28

way, they'll always be other women. Come on. Yep.

47:31

So Tiny's admitted

47:33

biggest weakness during all of this was

47:36

always women or more

47:38

specifically girls, typically between the ages of

47:40

like late

47:42

teens, early 20s. He

47:45

at this point in his life is a virgin.

47:48

He's like, I am a virgin, but

47:50

I will cheat on you. It's really

47:52

the worst of both worlds. He's in

47:54

show business. What can you expect? Huh?

47:56

So he ends up doing

47:58

things that are of. nature is

48:00

kind of like how the Mormons do soaking. Right,

48:03

yeah. So he doesn't do

48:05

that per se, but like he'll have girls

48:08

that he like licks peanut butter off of

48:10

or you know give them massages and usually

48:12

he would be engrossed in it and then

48:15

halfway through realize the horror of what he's

48:17

done and then flee or chase them out

48:19

of the room and then you know

48:22

confess to his diary about how sinful he was.

48:25

Men are so weird. They

48:27

are so weird, but again could

48:30

we have saved him if he just wasn't

48:32

super religious and full of shame? Yes, Harmony,

48:34

I mean if you had been able to

48:36

date him it would have been fine. Oh

48:38

I don't want to date him, absolutely not.

48:40

Okay, good. More of what I

48:42

mean is that he develops a series

48:44

of avoidances over the course of his life like he

48:46

has a violin teacher as a child who like smacks

48:49

his wrist with a ruler or whatever whenever he messes

48:51

up a note and then says, cool I'm never going

48:53

to take lessons, I'm going to be self-taught from here

48:55

on out. Naturally.

48:58

Tiny is not kind to Miss Vicki. She

49:00

has spoken in the year since about how

49:02

bad things are but she has reckoned with

49:05

it and is at least willing to discuss it and

49:07

say like there was good things about him, there were

49:09

very bad things about him. One

49:11

of them being that before they got married he

49:13

shipped her off to like a

49:15

week of cult like

49:18

churches thing at his favorite reverence thing and she had

49:20

to pray and go to multiple sermons a day and

49:22

to do all of that

49:24

before she would be allowed to marry him and

49:26

then after the wedding they had to go to

49:28

the Bahamas and then sit in their separate hotel

49:31

rooms for three days as

49:33

like a commitment to God

49:36

and each other and Tiny

49:39

just mostly sat in his room and listened

49:41

to Billy Graham and this

49:43

is where he starts to lose his mind I think.

49:46

Like he already was kind of losing his mind but this

49:48

is when he really goes off the deep end. I

49:52

mean what do you think is going on here with

49:54

this religious stuff because it feels like there are aspects

49:56

of his personality or you know whatever he was kind

49:58

of innately born. with

50:00

that are meshing with the

50:02

religious stuff in an unhealthy way. I

50:05

mean, if I were to take a guess, I

50:09

think that it's his undying

50:12

faith that people

50:14

have his best interest at heart, because they're

50:16

supposed to. Like, his parents are supposed to

50:18

love him, so he would speak in every

50:20

interview about how he had a lovely relationship

50:22

with his parents, and they were the best

50:25

ever because, you know, honor thy father and

50:27

mother, even though they would get

50:29

into physical fights and

50:31

screaming fights for a very long time,

50:33

for the whole time he lived there,

50:35

basically. And they weren't good.

50:38

That's why, you know, when Richard Nixon

50:40

was doing all of his Richard Nixon

50:42

things, and Tiny grew up listening to

50:44

like, these very pro-America songs, because we're

50:46

fighting world wars, he's like, oh,

50:49

well, the president's gotta be onto something, why would he be

50:51

the president then? I

50:53

just clearly, like, I trust that he knows what he's doing,

50:55

fine. Yeah, well, and if

50:57

you're listening to Billy Graham a lot, you're

51:00

certainly being taught blind trust and authority.

51:02

Yes. So I think

51:04

he innately had that, and

51:07

then it just got doubled down on

51:09

and compounded, which is why I think

51:11

he ends up developing a lot of

51:13

eccentricities that avoid painful scenarios he experiences,

51:16

which is why I think

51:18

all of the bad things start to compound

51:20

upon each other, especially as this is the

51:22

peak of his career, it's going to go

51:24

downhill from here. And he's going to be very

51:27

financially despondent from now until when he

51:29

dies in the mid 90s. And

51:33

it's just sad, like, this is where it

51:36

just kind of becomes a really unfortunate tragedy

51:40

because I think everything

51:42

he genuinely believes in his

51:45

heart, everything about his personality

51:47

is extremely contradictory to the

51:51

things that he spouts out. All

51:54

of his religious and conservative values are

51:56

the opposite of the things he sincerely

51:58

actually believes. Yeah, and what do

52:00

you see him actually believing? Um,

52:03

like he believes in, in,

52:05

in love and kindness and politeness and

52:07

honestly, like very classic leave it to

52:09

beaver kind of American values. But

52:12

he also, he wasn't

52:14

bigoted. Really? He wasn't

52:17

homophobic. Really? He

52:19

was like, that's for God to judge them, not me. So I

52:22

think that he was by most

52:24

accounts, most people who worked with him,

52:26

most people who met him, he was very polite

52:29

and courteous and entertaining. And

52:31

according to miss Sue, his third and

52:33

final wife and widow, she's

52:36

not convinced because of his upbringing and

52:38

the hard times he went through that

52:41

he ever truly understood the capacity for

52:43

love. And that's a

52:45

woman who married him. Yeah. Like

52:47

this is that joke you always see go around. That's not

52:49

even a joke. It's just a statement where it's like men

52:52

will really X awful thing rather than go to therapy. And

52:54

it's, you know, therapy wasn't a

52:56

thing you did at the time. Like, right.

52:59

The closest you got is at least, you

53:01

know, not not in tiny's

53:03

defense. It's like, because of his

53:05

very queer traits, he was

53:07

almost institutionalized by his mother and his parents would

53:09

get into frequent fights going like, this is your

53:11

side of the family. Your side of the family

53:13

is the one that has all this that he

53:15

got. Of course. God,

53:18

this is everything about him. He's

53:20

like the last true vaudeville star.

53:22

He's everything about him is a

53:24

carny because he never really had

53:26

homes. Like he lived

53:28

out of hotel rooms for most of his life. And that's one

53:31

thing that miss Vicki was very upset about is

53:33

that she wanted to have like a

53:35

yard and a house and those hardwood floors. Yeah. You

53:38

know, fair enough, sweetie. Yeah. I

53:40

totally agree. And I don't know what the deal

53:42

is, why specifically he didn't want an apartment. I

53:44

think that it was that he was addicted to

53:47

the love he got from performing

53:49

and being in hotels meant he was on the

53:51

road. And that meant that at the

53:54

very least, like he was doing something rather than

53:56

giving up and settling down. Yeah.

53:59

So. So

54:01

yeah, time's crew is not totally done

54:03

yet. One of the highlights of him

54:05

as a performer is he ends up

54:07

performing at the Isle of Wights festival

54:09

in 1970, alongside like Chicago and Joni

54:11

Mitchell and Jimi Hendrix and the Doors

54:13

and Miles Davis. And

54:16

apparently his set was phenomenal.

54:19

Everyone ate out of his hand. He

54:22

ended up being one of the reasons why the Isle

54:24

of Wights movie wasn't released for decades because apparently the

54:27

person in charge who had final say was like, I'm

54:29

not putting that man in my movie. What? Wow.

54:32

And that would have likely given him a great deal

54:35

of exposure like it did all the people featured in

54:37

the Woodstock movie. Right. He

54:39

gets into fights with his management, he ends up dropping

54:41

them, and he gets the

54:44

managerial of a service of a man named

54:46

Joe Cappy. He

54:48

sounds really trustworthy. He was very trustworthy.

54:51

Tiny's father, Butros, was very adamant that

54:53

he should not sign with this man

54:55

and Tiny's defense was, I can't, my

54:57

father won't let me. Oh

54:59

boy. Cappy is a Brooklyn tough guy.

55:01

He has no connections with

55:04

anybody in the business. And

55:07

he is definitely a mob kind of guy. Not

55:10

like big mob, not like important mob. Yeah.

55:13

Like definitely a guy with who knows some people who could like break

55:15

your fingers if you wanted. Right. He

55:17

ends up strong arming Tiny into a contract that he would

55:20

be in for a very, very long time. Oh,

55:22

great. This ends up being a period

55:24

of trying to reinvent his image because

55:26

where I said like, the 60s intersected

55:29

with Tiny at the exact perfect moment

55:31

to create an ex, they are now

55:33

rapidly moving away from each other. He's

55:36

trying to figure out, well, what do I look like in

55:38

the 70s? Yeah. And

55:41

what ends up happening is he does venues

55:43

and is mostly playing off of like the

55:46

stardom that he had had, but

55:49

him and Miss Vicki get rebranded as

55:51

a dual act. Oh my, how does

55:53

that go? That's well

55:55

because Miss Vicki is not a singer

55:57

and she was not comfortable performing. Well,

56:00

then why do that for God's sake?

56:02

Just capture that 50 million people from

56:04

the Carson's appearance, you know? Yeah, yeah.

56:07

Just chase them that dragon, I guess.

56:09

Yeah. But yeah, they're they're living on

56:11

the road very early on

56:13

into their marriage. She gets pregnant. That

56:16

child unfortunately does not make it. Shortly

56:19

thereafter, she gets pregnant again. And

56:22

a week before she prematurely goes into labor,

56:24

Tiny Tim's father dies. Mm hmm. They

56:27

produce a beautiful little baby girl

56:30

that Tiny names Tulip, much to

56:32

Miss Vicki's insistence that

56:34

that not be the case because it feels

56:37

like a publicity stunt. But he also was

56:39

considering naming her after various soap products. So,

56:42

oh, you know, Ajax is

56:45

possibly or like Dove soap, maybe Dove.

56:47

That might have been one that he

56:49

would have gone with. Palm olive. Yeah.

56:52

Tulip is born. She did not have

56:54

a relationship with her father. Miss

56:57

Vicki and him end up getting divorced in

57:00

the 70s and Tiny very rarely

57:02

sees this child. She's embarrassed

57:04

of her father for much of her life, though. From

57:06

what I can tell from the King for a Day

57:08

documentary, she seems to have come to terms with it

57:10

and seems to at least

57:12

be able to discuss things in

57:14

a way where before neither her nor Vicki

57:16

had very kind things to say. Now they're

57:19

just like, OK, here's a more like

57:22

the sand has settled. Here's more of the actual

57:24

story. The best you can

57:26

kind of look at in Tiny in the 70s is

57:28

he's trying different looks, different

57:30

sounds, mostly just trying

57:32

to capture a lot of kitschy

57:34

novelty stuff. He releases a song

57:36

called Juanita Banana, where he

57:39

wears a chiquita banana looking outfit with a

57:41

fruit hat. And it's just a bunch of

57:43

loud noises that I think could have worked

57:45

in the 60s, but definitely not in the 70s. He

57:48

closes out the decade with a

57:50

very, very, very minor resurgence of

57:52

the song Tiptoe to the Gas

57:55

Pump, which is a

57:57

riff on Tiptoe to the Tulips musically

57:59

and name wise, obviously, and it's about the

58:01

gas shortage of the late 70s. That's

58:03

about where you're looking at in terms of like

58:05

how high profile he is. Yeah.

58:08

So like topical songs about the news,

58:10

which I feel like don't even exist

58:12

anymore, but used to in a weird

58:14

way and kind of musical liminal space.

58:17

Yeah. So the 80s happen, Tiny's continuing

58:19

to not do well. He's continuing to lose

58:21

his mind. He will literally talk for anybody

58:24

who will ask him anything. He will

58:26

record anything anybody asks him to.

58:29

He spends much of the 80s in Australia

58:31

working with a man who is a huge

58:33

Tiny Tim super fan and is trying to

58:36

make a movie about him called Street of

58:38

Dreams that does not get released. He

58:40

did a, I think it's one of his final

58:42

appearances on Carson. He does his cover of Do

58:44

You Think I'm Sexy by Rod Stewart in which

58:46

he tears his clothes off

58:49

and tries to take a shirt off, but it's

58:51

not working. And the crowd seems

58:54

to be interested, but mostly it just comes

58:56

across as very sad. It

58:58

feels like he's getting extremely

59:00

diminishing returns on doing

59:03

the thing that gets him the attention he needs

59:05

to have a will to live. And I say that

59:07

as someone who also needs attention to have a will

59:09

to live. Oh yeah. Like I

59:11

think that, you know, during

59:14

this era, I'm not sure

59:17

anything kept him going other

59:19

than his stubbornness to have

59:21

another hit record, which he was never going to

59:23

have after like the early seventies. And

59:26

also like, just like God, I trust that

59:28

you'll take care of me, right? You won't

59:30

forsake me, right? So

59:34

that happens. He starts to

59:36

really go off the deep end and record

59:38

the song called Santa Claus has got the

59:40

AIDS this year. Oh God,

59:42

what? It's a

59:45

Christmas song about how allegedly,

59:47

according to Tiny in various interviews

59:50

and intros, it's not about Santa

59:52

being sick. He thinks AIDS

59:54

is a very serious illness that's killing a lot

59:56

of people. He doesn't want anything to happen to

59:58

them, but also it might be. something

1:00:01

as a punishment for out of marriage sex

1:00:03

and this isn't

1:00:05

about that this is about that this is called AIDS

1:00:07

with a Y and it's about a

1:00:09

candy bar that used to exist and

1:00:13

the actual song has tiny Santa Claus

1:00:15

going like I can't deliver

1:00:18

presents cuz I'm sick this year but don't

1:00:20

worry I'll be back and it's like that

1:00:22

it's clearly about what it's about yeah it's

1:00:24

released as a single with the

1:00:26

b-side being a song called she left me with the

1:00:28

herpes oh god

1:00:31

it's always so it's like what are

1:00:33

you supposed to do when you're watching someone

1:00:35

decline like this you know this

1:00:37

is the same question everyone had about Aaron

1:00:40

Carter mm-hmm earlier on you can maybe correct

1:00:42

things but at this point there's nothing you

1:00:44

can do because you can only put in

1:00:46

as much help as someone's willing to put

1:00:48

in themselves right so it's

1:00:51

not good he ends up

1:00:53

joining the circus which he used to be

1:00:55

a part of like the freak show and

1:00:57

flee circus well I guess they have that

1:00:59

makes sense okay yeah yep he joins the

1:01:01

great American circus you know people are excited

1:01:03

to see him around this period of time

1:01:05

any time I post about tiny Tim on

1:01:07

social media I inevitably get people who go

1:01:10

oh yeah I saw him touring with a

1:01:12

circus like when I was really young and

1:01:14

he was so nice and so charismatic and

1:01:17

I don't know if it's just that they were children but

1:01:20

apparently people have fond memories of seeing him

1:01:22

someone messaged me about this recently it was

1:01:24

like oh yeah I saw him open for

1:01:27

like a monster truck show and it was

1:01:29

awesome Wow maybe more declining entertainers should join

1:01:31

the circus I hope that's an option still

1:01:33

yeah I mean I don't know how many

1:01:36

circuses we have touring these days I know

1:01:38

also very much a thing of a bygone era

1:01:41

yeah well yeah of course it would be ideal

1:01:43

to join a circus

1:01:45

that doesn't have any animals and only

1:01:47

tortures French Canadians I

1:01:51

would go to that show so tiny also

1:01:53

ends up getting to star in a horror

1:01:55

movie around this time what it's

1:01:58

called blood harvest all righty and He

1:02:00

is a scary clown. Of course

1:02:03

around this time tiny actually has

1:02:05

a minor career resurgence Weirdly

1:02:07

enough not connected to any of this He

1:02:10

befriended earlier in the decade a young

1:02:12

shock jock named Howard Stern. What? All

1:02:14

right. Why not? This is okay. The

1:02:17

cameos are really out of control here

1:02:19

Howard Stern being a man who appreciates

1:02:22

characters would frequently invite

1:02:24

tiny on his show and

1:02:26

they had a very warm

1:02:28

relationship for many years and This

1:02:31

is also coinciding with just like the general

1:02:33

Kitsch of the nostalgia cycle coming around in

1:02:36

like a 20-year cycle where people go. Oh,

1:02:38

it's 1990 I remember

1:02:40

this guy he's still around goddamn. It's like

1:02:42

Alice Cooper and Greg show marks Like

1:02:45

I've learned to reckon with and

1:02:47

this is just my succinct way of reckoning with

1:02:49

things is I started to replace butts

1:02:52

with and Where

1:02:54

it's like, okay tiny Tim is a performer

1:02:57

who I find very fascinating especially from a

1:02:59

bunch of Queer aspects

1:03:02

that I would love to end on when

1:03:04

we get there Mm-hmm and usually that's where

1:03:06

someone would say like but he also was

1:03:08

like a horrible conservative who believed all this

1:03:10

stuff It's like no, he's a performer who

1:03:12

I like and I find very fascinating as

1:03:14

like a pitiable tragic figure Mm-hmm

1:03:16

and he's all those things not but

1:03:18

he's those things like it's it's it's

1:03:21

just in my brain It feels

1:03:23

like it's more accountability on a

1:03:25

subject then saying like yeah, Stanley Kubrick

1:03:28

Tortured Shelley de vaul, but he made a

1:03:30

really good movie totally right? Well, it feels

1:03:33

like you know acknowledging that

1:03:35

we are drawn to the people we are partly

1:03:37

because They are so

1:03:39

flawed and and we you know, that's what

1:03:41

we seek to understand and to think about.

1:03:44

Mm-hmm It's especially easy to like

1:03:46

be drawn to these people like as

1:03:49

a novel Fascination, especially

1:03:52

Retrospectively because yeah, I mean

1:03:54

whatever dude's dead like it's

1:03:56

not like he's gonna hurt anybody else I'm not

1:03:58

out here propping him up as well like this pillar of

1:04:01

virtue or that anybody should have listened to

1:04:03

any of his like, right bonkers ramblings per

1:04:05

se. Right. Well, this is the thing. Yeah.

1:04:07

Like you can, you can study someone and

1:04:09

find them worthy of attention and not claim

1:04:11

that they had any idea how

1:04:14

other people should live their lives. I

1:04:17

mean, maybe sometimes famous people are really

1:04:19

wrong about stuff. Yeah. Maybe most of

1:04:21

the time. Yeah. Just maybe just possibly.

1:04:23

I don't know. I don't know. Yeah.

1:04:25

So Tiny does, uh, does okay

1:04:27

in the early nineties, at least compared to how

1:04:29

he'd been for a couple of decades. He ends

1:04:32

up meeting a fan who had been fans of

1:04:34

him since she was 12 years old. They miss

1:04:36

Sue. She leaves her

1:04:38

boyfriend. Okay. Great. To be with

1:04:40

him. She, I believe is around

1:04:43

40 years old at the time. So this is

1:04:45

much more age appropriate. He is in his sixties

1:04:48

and those two are together for

1:04:51

the rest of Tiny's life. Tragically,

1:04:53

he's, he has diabetes as that has been

1:04:56

going unchecked for a while because he lives

1:04:58

out of hotel rooms, eating like SpaghettiOs

1:05:01

out of a can. And,

1:05:03

uh, he suffers a heart attack

1:05:06

performing one day. And the

1:05:08

doctor basically says like, Hey, with all of your

1:05:10

health problems, you might die if you

1:05:12

continue to tour. But

1:05:15

of course he's not willing to stop doing that.

1:05:17

He stops for a little bit and then goes

1:05:19

back out on the road. He's performing in, I

1:05:21

believe Minneapolis for like a women's group. And

1:05:24

during his very, very short set,

1:05:27

he goes on stage. And

1:05:30

during the last song, which is tiptoe to

1:05:32

the tulips, he suffers a fatal heart attack

1:05:34

and dies. Wow. Which

1:05:36

is like a

1:05:38

tragedy, but also like kind of a

1:05:41

beautifully poetic bookend to things. Yeah.

1:05:43

Like he died doing what he loves. He

1:05:46

got to entertain and he wasn't on

1:05:49

like Morton Downey Jr.

1:05:51

going on long rants about how much

1:05:53

of a misogynist he is. Yeah. So

1:05:55

like, this is a part I prefer

1:05:57

to think about in terms of.

1:06:00

like how it ends. I mean,

1:06:02

it's a really good point that it's like if you're

1:06:05

waning years, you get to keep sharing the

1:06:07

best of yourself rather than deciding that everyone

1:06:09

needs to hear your thoughts on the Jewish

1:06:12

space laser. You

1:06:14

know, that's some grace that you've been shown.

1:06:16

Yeah. And now that we have,

1:06:18

you know, completed the highlights of a

1:06:21

very long sad story. Yeah. Sarah,

1:06:23

how are you feeling about this? I just feel

1:06:25

like I wish that weirdos had

1:06:27

more access to

1:06:31

environments that made them feel safe to be

1:06:33

weirdos so they didn't have to then construct

1:06:35

entire philosophies about

1:06:38

it that were then, you know,

1:06:40

based on wishing harm upon others.

1:06:43

Yeah, I would agree with that. There's

1:06:45

so many people who turn their pain

1:06:47

into art and so many others who

1:06:50

turn their pain into conspiracy

1:06:52

theories and political movements.

1:06:55

And it feels like I just

1:06:57

don't know how much we're in control of whether

1:06:59

we do one or the other. And

1:07:02

I feel lucky for everybody who can do the art one. Yeah.

1:07:05

I mean, isn't that like ideally like what

1:07:07

you want to do as someone who exists

1:07:09

through this life is like make something beautiful?

1:07:11

Yeah, you know, let's all do more of

1:07:13

that, I think. But I mean, but tell

1:07:15

me about the resonances that you feel in

1:07:17

this story, too. I

1:07:19

mean, it's unfortunately really sad

1:07:22

the way that we chew

1:07:24

out a lot of music acts like I'm

1:07:26

fascinated by one hit wonders and they call

1:07:29

them in many different forms and they have

1:07:31

different career trajectories and some of them have

1:07:33

bigger plans and schemes. Some of them produce

1:07:35

the Monster Mash and then the follow up

1:07:38

to that is the Monster Mash Christmas. But

1:07:41

I think that there's something

1:07:43

that is I am drawn

1:07:45

to about preserving like these

1:07:47

niche, eclectic, weird things.

1:07:50

In so many ways, like Tiny Tim in the

1:07:52

50s and 60s, remembering songs of like the 1910s

1:07:56

was the same kind of

1:07:58

fascination with the style. and a vested interest

1:08:00

in something that nobody cared about. I think

1:08:03

that being aware of these little

1:08:05

oddities, these little weirdos of music

1:08:07

history is just so interesting. In

1:08:10

so many ways,

1:08:12

like Tiny Tim is the first

1:08:15

like androgynous rock star as we

1:08:17

know them. He's the

1:08:20

pre David Bowie. He's before Bowie. He's

1:08:22

before the Beatles had long hair. He

1:08:24

had long hair before kiss and

1:08:26

Alice Cooper wore makeup. He wore makeup. He

1:08:29

did all of this stuff in like the

1:08:31

modern sense of like the latter half of

1:08:33

the 20th century as we know it. He's

1:08:35

like the original guy, certainly the first one

1:08:38

to be of this scale of popularity. And

1:08:41

I think that him doing songs

1:08:43

like I Enjoy Being a Girl in the

1:08:45

most low five bootleg cover you can find

1:08:47

on YouTube is such

1:08:49

an fascinating and interesting part of

1:08:51

queer history. Yeah, even though some

1:08:54

people insist Tiny isn't queer,

1:08:57

but he totally is. There

1:08:59

is an outlier to this whole

1:09:01

story of queerness that I do want to

1:09:03

reference in this book. And it's

1:09:06

that Tiny had a relationship with a man

1:09:08

in his neighborhood. Man is

1:09:10

being generous. He was I believe a boy.

1:09:12

Tiny was I think a 22 ish.

1:09:16

And for the sake of me not remembering

1:09:18

exact numbers, he was probably about

1:09:20

this. This man named Bobby Gonzalez is probably about

1:09:22

16. And this is

1:09:25

in I believe the 50s. Tiny

1:09:28

wrote in his journal, at first

1:09:31

I was disturbed by having eruptions. He

1:09:33

would ejaculate in his pants a lot. This is the

1:09:35

common thing for him. But it's not

1:09:37

impossible for two people of the same sex to

1:09:40

have a sense of love, spiritual love, not sexual.

1:09:42

Let me state here and now towards each other.

1:09:44

Did Bobby also have the same spiritual love for

1:09:46

me I had for him? I don't know. All

1:09:49

I know is the cause of my eruptions,

1:09:51

especially at the touch of his hand was

1:09:53

one, because of the job and accepting a

1:09:55

temptation and overcoming it for Christ and two,

1:09:57

because of spiritual love. I love it.

1:10:00

when I come because of spiritual

1:10:02

love for someone of the same gender.

1:10:04

Right? But

1:10:06

isn't that what love is? There's

1:10:10

something there. He would admit later in interviews, oh

1:10:12

no, that's the only man I ever fell in

1:10:14

love with. He wrote in journals and they showed

1:10:16

it to Bobby Gonzales, who is

1:10:18

still alive in the documentary, King for a

1:10:20

Day, and Tiny listed all of his traits.

1:10:22

He's so warm and he's kind, and I

1:10:25

love when we hang out together, and these

1:10:27

are all of his good traits, and for

1:10:29

a column of bad traits, they were all

1:10:31

zeros. He was madly in

1:10:33

love with this man. And

1:10:37

I don't know, you can't be gay

1:10:39

in the 50s. His parents

1:10:41

caught them one time massaging with shirts

1:10:43

off in bed, and it became a

1:10:45

huge, very physical altercation.

1:10:48

And these are the circumstances where I'm

1:10:50

like, I wish that this was not a thing that you had

1:10:52

to deal with. This is not me saying, look, I can save

1:10:54

him because he's too far gone. This is the things where I

1:10:56

go, I wish these were the things

1:10:58

that didn't happen in your life.

1:11:02

I wish that you weren't pushed to areas

1:11:04

where you felt shameful about this, where you

1:11:07

thought you needed to seek refuge in God

1:11:09

because what you're doing is too sinful. These

1:11:12

are the things that make me

1:11:14

the most sad and the most

1:11:17

fascinated by this story. Yeah,

1:11:19

completely. So that's,

1:11:22

I think, all I got. Yeah, so that's

1:11:24

the Tiny Tim story. Part

1:11:26

of the basis of the show is trying to

1:11:28

understand the lives of flawed people

1:11:31

and people whose inability to exist comfortably

1:11:33

in the time that they were brought

1:11:35

in to led them to be harmful

1:11:38

to others, even in

1:11:40

many ways. And that's where we can learn

1:11:42

so much, I feel like, and also kind

1:11:44

of understand how deeply necessary

1:11:46

it is to have access to some

1:11:48

kind of a culture that tells you

1:11:50

that you should be who you are.

1:11:54

Harmony Colangelo, you are

1:11:56

the premier Tiny Tim scholar, and

1:11:59

this shows you. universe and so much more, where

1:12:01

can people find more of your work and

1:12:03

more of you? You can follow

1:12:05

me on Twitter, I guess, yeah, still, I'm

1:12:08

gonna keep calling it Twitter, Twitter,

1:12:10

Instagram, at velocitraptor, velocit underscore trap, underscore

1:12:12

tour. I'm also on Blue Sky at

1:12:15

my name, Harmony Colangelo. But more importantly,

1:12:17

you can listen to me on my

1:12:19

podcast, This Ends It From, which I

1:12:21

do with my wife. And

1:12:24

it's about unpacking teen girl

1:12:26

movies from the cis and

1:12:29

trans perspective. It's her

1:12:31

basically showing me movies I've never seen before.

1:12:34

And seeing how they hold up in their

1:12:36

time, the context they were released in, and

1:12:38

how well they explore coming of age now.

1:12:40

Yeah, and it's, you know, and I love

1:12:43

any exploration or celebration of

1:12:45

girl culture. And I mean, I

1:12:48

feel like you do such

1:12:50

wonderful work. And I love that you

1:12:52

are, I don't know, I love that

1:12:54

you're doing this with someone you love

1:12:56

in a sustained way. It creates

1:12:59

such a wonderful space for us

1:13:01

to join you in. Thank

1:13:04

you. I appreciate that. I

1:13:06

appreciate you welcoming me into

1:13:08

like the greater Sarah Marshall

1:13:10

extended universe. The PSMEU,

1:13:13

yeah. Yeah, I mean, I'm really

1:13:15

happy to be in the Colangelo

1:13:17

universe, you know, the snacks there

1:13:20

are the best and the posters.

1:13:34

That is our episode. Thank you so much

1:13:37

for listening and coming on the journey with

1:13:39

us. Thank you to

1:13:41

Harmony Colangelo for being our guest. If you

1:13:43

want more to listen to, you can find

1:13:45

our bonus on the movie May December

1:13:48

with Zest, Megan Burbank over on Patreon

1:13:50

and Apple Plus descriptions.

1:13:53

Thank you so much to Miranda

1:13:55

Zichler for editing this episode. Thank

1:13:58

you as always to Carolyn Kendra. ushing

1:14:01

this episode mobilized

1:14:24

ized ized

1:14:29

ics