0:15

And we're back with another episode of the

0:17

Youth Ministry Booster Podcast . Hangout in the garage

0:19

. I'm Zach Workin . This is my best

0:21

friend , Chad Higgins . How ?

0:22

are you hey ?

0:23

buddy , we are back and it's springtime

0:25

. I'm wearing short sleeves in the garage

0:28

because Daddy

0:30

put an air conditioner in . Yes

0:33

, I did , it was . You know

0:35

, the summertime was coming and

0:37

it was long overdue . We had

0:39

sweated out enough in the sauna

0:41

garage , and so how does it feel

0:43

? You feel more temperate .

0:46

I can walk from inside your house to

0:49

this space . It feels the same and it feels the

0:51

same .

0:52

It's just an extension of the house . It just feels

0:54

like it was always meant to be .

0:57

So it's going to be nice , is it a garage ?

0:59

or is it a studio ? Hard to know , hard

1:01

to know , hard to

1:03

know . We are excited to come back at you . This

1:06

time of year is always a really unique time of year

1:08

. It's Eastery , it's

1:10

spring break-y , it's the end

1:12

of winter stuff , it's the beginning

1:14

of summer stuff . We even talked about it before . It

1:17

feels like a middle time For

1:20

Youth Ministry . It feels like a middle time . The

1:23

Easter is a very big Sunday . Youth

1:25

Ministry may experience the

1:27

swell of that . But

1:29

Easter is not often like a youth emphasis

1:32

Sunday . There's very few churches that are like Easter

1:34

Sunday . Youth pastor preaching

1:36

, youth choir singing , that would be quite the

1:38

Easter . That would be quite the Easter . It would be

1:40

. It would be lit fam

1:43

, nope , nope , not that . But

1:45

it is a unique time . But I

1:47

think it brings up a lot of these loose

1:49

thread conversations For me , in

1:51

particular the question of best

1:54

field trip that you ever took as a

1:56

kid , because I just got back from

1:58

the zoo and pioneered days

2:00

with the boys . Amazing .

2:02

I want to hear you have to go

2:04

with Phil .

2:04

Yes , like field trip dad

2:07

sponsor . Well , I mean work

2:09

from anywhere . Sometimes

2:11

you're working from . It's

2:13

a little bit weird to be the guy with his iPad out

2:16

at the homestead when

2:18

everybody else is like eating cold fried chicken

2:20

and you're like answering an email . But you know good

2:22

times .

2:23

Good times . Is that a field trip

2:25

that everybody across the country

2:27

has experienced , or is that like a

2:29

local , southern thing ? So if you don't

2:32

know what we're talking about , you

2:34

very well may not .

2:37

That's a great question . Yeah , is

2:39

that not universally ?

2:40

true ? Well , I know that

2:42

I mean .

2:42

there are some things like antiquity trips

2:44

. Surely antiquity trips are a thing . Well

2:46

, I mean , I think , depending

2:48

on how old ?

2:49

100 years to you ? Yeah

2:51

, so okay . So basically , these are field trips

2:54

where there's some historical site

2:56

. I know that the one that we went to when I was a

2:58

kid it was like a one

3:01

room school building that was like

3:03

Frontier day . Yeah , that was like remodeled

3:06

, and so it was basically created

3:08

to look like it used to like . There

3:10

were these like little desks that kids would have said

3:12

at 100 years ago .

3:14

There was the outhouses that you got to visit all

3:16

of that kind of stuff . Chickens you got to feed

3:18

, yeah .

3:19

And so I can remember there was even a little

3:21

gift shop . You could buy some stuff .

3:26

Just like they used to do in the frontier days . Wow

3:29

, but I just , you know carbon

3:31

copies of the Constitution to pick up at the gift

3:34

shop . Thank you , homesteaders .

3:36

I could remember getting . I got a

3:38

mouth heart .

3:39

Oh good Was it a Snoopy branded

3:41

one .

3:42

No , it was just a metal thing . It

3:46

was like a which worst instrument

3:49

in the world ?

3:49

Yeah , it literally just flicks your cheek to

3:51

death . Flicks your

3:53

cheek to death .

3:56

But that's a real looking

3:59

back , like that was a weird trip

4:01

.

4:01

Yeah , what is your mom pack for lunch

4:03

? That's always the like what'd you wear

4:06

and what'd your mom pack for lunch ? Because that was

4:08

a fun little conversation

4:10

in the working household for what we were going to send our kids

4:12

with .

4:13

Well , I don't remember what my mom packed

4:15

for lunch , but thinking of like

4:18

pioneer day , so this

4:20

is a specific Oklahoma one . Yeah

4:22

yeah yeah , so Zach and I grew up in Oklahoma

4:24

. There's some Oklahoma

4:26

history in the central

4:28

part of the state known as the land

4:31

run , and

4:33

so it was basically a dachshund

4:35

for land many years ago .

4:37

Where's Sooners , boomers and Sooners

4:40

, sooners , yeah , sooners come from , yeah , yeah yeah , yeah

4:42

, yeah they're .

4:44

I mean they like lined up on a line

4:46

and like went and claimed land . But

4:48

there was this reenactment back on the

4:50

day in the playground where you'd

4:52

have all the kids dress up like they were . You

4:55

know 1800s A little

4:57

boomers and Sooners .

4:57

Boomers and Sooners , if you don't have a little covered

4:59

, little red wagon .

5:00

Oh yeah , you bring your wagon and make

5:03

it look like an actual like a camp site

5:05

.

5:05

Yeah , yeah , yeah , just staking out your

5:07

40 .

5:07

But yeah , but then it was just kids

5:09

running out into playground with four stakes

5:12

Right and yarn and

5:14

you would just rope off your area .

5:16

We need kids running around with more sharp objects

5:18

and string . That just seems like that's

5:20

a good playground day , like that's

5:23

a wild .

5:24

Okay , so this is not my best

5:26

field trip I've ever went on , but this

5:28

is the weirdest , the weirdest

5:30

Dude . Looking back , I have no

5:32

idea why my school did this . Okay

5:34

, and , as an adult , a little appalled

5:37

by it , oh , okay .

5:39

It was retrospective offense

5:42

.

5:42

It was over the Christmas season , Okay

5:45

. Okay . So one of our teachers

5:48

, her husband

5:50

, was . They

5:52

were pretty affluent , Her husband had a great

5:55

job all this kind of stuff . They

5:57

decorated their house and

5:59

just like I mean it looked like Christmas

6:02

just threw up in it . Nice , we

6:04

went on a class field trip To

6:06

the rich ladies house To the rich ladies house

6:08

To look at

6:10

their Christmas decorations .

6:12

Now that is a trip from Historic History

6:14

. Oh hey , golly . God

6:16

bless the Francis family , for you

6:18

know that's a feudal system , my friend

6:20

.

6:21

Looking back at it , young serfdoms .

6:24

Looking back at it .

6:25

I'm like why did they take us there

6:27

? Like what was happening ? They were just

6:29

like you guys wanna see how the

6:31

other half live .

6:35

One day , this too could all be yours

6:37

, that's complicated

6:39

.

6:39

That's a complicated trip .

6:41

I don't know if I had anything that was that complicated . We

6:43

did sophomore year in high school I

6:46

was a part of a group that did a lot of different like significant

6:49

sites in Oklahoma City visit and

6:51

that was fun Like kind of a monthly . Every month they'd take a

6:53

group of us like leadership students who did that thing , but

6:56

the Pioneer days , both taking the boys

6:58

, taking the oldest , and then growing up

7:00

doing it Like that was the like you

7:03

pack a pail of like cold

7:05

fried chicken which my mom

7:07

bought from KFC , which is

7:09

just I don't . There's something about like having

7:12

it be fast food fried chicken

7:14

you refrigerated for the next day

7:16

. There's something , there's something there . But

7:18

that was like I had to buy new coveralls , cause

7:20

that was like the kids were supposed to wear , like

7:22

you know , period appropriate

7:25

clothing , and so we bought , like

7:27

you know , a little knock off Levi coveralls . Not

7:29

, I wasn't really a coverall kid , but that's .

7:31

Did I respect the kid that just shows

7:33

up in Nike shorts and a Tasmanian

7:36

devil T-shirt ready for

7:38

Pioneer day ?

7:39

Looting tunes are awesome , man , everybody loves looting tunes

7:41

. Yeah , just Tweety Bird , hoodie , you know , ready to go ? Yeah

7:44

, that's an interesting thing . So if you didn't

7:47

have a Frontier day , pioneer day , I'm

7:49

trying to think for our friends that either lived all the way out

7:51

West or who states are older

7:53

than a hundred years , like what is

7:56

the like antiquity Frontier trip

7:58

If you're from like Boston ? Boston

8:00

, yeah , like that's just a little tea party

8:02

of a different kind . God , what

8:04

if that's what they started , as it was like tea

8:06

party of like sitting around drinking tea and

8:09

they all took stuff and threw it in the lake .

8:11

Well , as a guy who just turned in as taxes

8:13

if we want to

8:15

go through . I'm here

8:17

for throwing some tea in a pond somewhere

8:20

.

8:20

Chad's a little fired up politically , we'll save

8:22

that for a different episode , maybe a different podcast

8:25

show . You catch him at Chad Higgins dot

8:27

. Political thoughtsco that

8:29

today we did want to talk about some

8:32

of the things that may be reminiscing

8:34

, connecting across the

8:36

country with folks , and it's the space

8:38

between ministry obligations

8:41

. This is something that we talked about

8:43

, kind of pre-show that we want to invite you in

8:45

as a conversation . We feel like the

8:48

post-DNL spring

8:50

break , easter time before summertime

8:52

is a unique valley

8:54

of youth ministry

8:56

happenings Because I think it pulls

8:59

us in some different directions One

9:01

, to try to add one more thing to

9:03

what we're doing . Or two

9:05

, to be honest about the rest

9:07

we need . Or three

9:09

, to be really , really

9:11

honest and feel conflicted about

9:14

all of it . I

9:17

don't know . April into May are a weird

9:19

set of months for a lot of youth ministry

9:21

leaders , and so maybe walk us through a little

9:24

bit . You'd shared some of the thoughts about coming

9:26

out of something before beginning something

9:28

, but walk us into the moment and the feeling

9:30

.

9:31

So one of the things that we I

9:33

think we always want to do well here

9:35

is not just to talk about the

9:37

practical tips or how to do better . There's

9:41

an element of what we do

9:43

as ministers that is both

9:45

spiritual and emotional , and

9:49

I know in talking with a lot of

9:51

youth ministers and my time

9:53

in student ministry , this season

9:56

of time right here you're

9:58

coming out of either Disciple Now , Winter

10:00

Camp or whatever you call it , or

10:03

even if you don't have something like that , there's

10:06

been this start of the year excitement

10:08

, maybe in church , and we've tried

10:10

to run with that

10:12

for a little bit , and now we're getting

10:15

into the season of time of either we've

10:17

been planning for mission trip over

10:20

Spring Break . Or

10:22

maybe you have service project over Spring Break

10:24

, or you've even started

10:27

sign up for camp and all of that kind

10:29

of stuff , and then

10:31

, just in the midst of students , right

10:33

, the spring can be really

10:35

busy . You've got sports

10:38

and concerts , graduation parties , yeah

10:40

, all of these kind of things that are happening

10:42

in the year at and in the life

10:44

, the span

10:46

of it being a student pastor over the year . Like this feels

10:49

like a very busy time of year , but it also

10:51

feels like it's the

10:53

in between , like you're just trying to like move

10:55

from here to there and get

10:57

everybody in line and all these kind of things , and

11:00

I think it can be really like

11:02

taxing Mm-hmm

11:05

, not just in the workload

11:07

but I think sometimes

11:10

in our own feeling of the

11:13

work and what we're asked to do . Man

11:16

, as I look at like Facebook groups

11:18

, it just feels like there's this like level

11:22

of snarkiness that

11:24

isn't always Sarcasm is beginning to creep

11:27

.

11:27

That is something that I think is worth noting

11:30

is for all of us

11:32

when the sarcasm begins to creep

11:34

, yeah .

11:35

Well , and I think that it

11:38

becomes this feeling

11:40

of being

11:42

unsatisfied . They're

11:45

also from people

11:48

. I talk to you when our

11:50

schedule becomes so busy and

11:53

we feel like we've got expectation from

11:55

our church and our students

11:58

, and then even just our own expectation

12:00

of doing mission

12:02

trip really well . Or man

12:05

having a great disciple . Now , then

12:09

I think sometimes

12:11

the people that take the brunt of

12:14

that is our own family

12:16

, our relationship with our spouse

12:18

, our kids , and

12:21

it feels like we're just kind of dragging them

12:23

along the way with us

12:25

. So

12:27

this is something we've

12:29

done for a long time , Zach and

12:31

I've asked you this same question , many

12:34

different topics . If

12:36

you had the chance to

12:39

sit down with one of our listeners , that what

12:41

we're talking about right now resonates

12:44

. They're like that's exactly where I'm at , you

12:47

get to have coffee like we're doing right now . What

12:52

would be some wisdom or advice you

12:54

would begin to just give them ?

12:57

I think the biggest thing to

13:00

start with is who is putting

13:02

these expectations on you ? Because

13:06

I often feel like we are trying

13:08

to live up to expectations that

13:10

maybe have not been communicated

13:12

to us . I'm not saying

13:15

that people wouldn't like it if you did

13:17

it . I think that's why we often end up

13:19

doing it . Is planting

13:21

more activities . There's at least one parent's

13:23

like come on , heck , yeah , thank you , be

13:26

it , more stuff , please . And so

13:28

I think there is a little bit of like . Well , when I

13:30

do more , I get thanked for it , but

13:33

that doesn't mean the same thing as like that was

13:35

what you were supposed to do . And

13:37

in ministry , a conversation about expectations

13:39

starts on the staff side of things of

13:41

like and senior leadership

13:44

. What is the

13:46

, what is ? Or

13:48

can I come to you and ask about the

13:50

season between seasons , right , like the slump

13:53

between spring and summer ? Can this be

13:55

more about this than that ? And

13:58

so I think clarifying those expectations

14:01

will give your heart

14:03

and relationships some space , like

14:05

cause . That is one of the things about ministry

14:07

is it takes a toll

14:09

, even when it's really good . It takes a toll

14:11

because it's relational and emotional work

14:13

, like there's just stuff that gets loaded

14:16

up on you . But even

14:18

if it's positive stuff , you're just carrying it around

14:20

, and so I think clarifying

14:22

the expectations is good , but

14:25

then I think also being really intentional

14:27

youth ministry loved to plan things

14:30

you have got to put the

14:32

time of rest and family on the calendar

14:34

. The calendar it In the same way

14:36

that you calendar the

14:39

monthly activity or

14:41

the graduation

14:43

or the mission trip , planning meeting

14:45

, make appointments , plans

14:48

with your family , your spouse

14:50

, yourself , like that has to be

14:52

a part of as much your . If

14:55

it's the time that's leftover , it's always

14:57

gonna taste like leftovers . It

14:59

has to be a part of the menu the

15:01

plan Attentionally planned .

15:03

Yes , yeah , yeah , yeah . But I think that's so

15:05

good , man . I love that you started

15:07

with expectation and

15:09

I think that that's an issue

15:12

in just ministry world in general that

15:14

I don't think we talk enough about . I

15:17

hear a lot about job description and

15:19

things like that .

15:20

It's a one-time conversation . Yeah , yeah , yeah .

15:22

Well , but even like a lot of times , I

15:25

think there are two camps of people

15:27

that do job description incorrectly

15:30

. Okay One , they

15:33

see their job description and

15:35

then those become hard lines of like well

15:37

that's all I do .

15:38

Right right .

15:39

And then there's often that no further , that

15:41

no further and

15:43

that often becomes this like rub

15:45

. Yeah , you see a lot

15:48

of dudes that lose their job over

15:50

the fact that it's like well , that wasn't

15:53

part of my job description , but like

15:55

we're ministers

15:57

, like , there are different things that come up , those

15:59

kind of deals . Now

16:01

, by no means think we

16:03

throw those at the water . The

16:06

other side is , I

16:08

think a little bit of what you're talking about the

16:11

expectation isn't clearly defined

16:13

and there are things that are

16:15

written on a paper when we first get hired

16:18

, but we don't

16:20

. There's nothing on there that actually

16:22

describes in

16:25

the people that evaluate your work

16:27

whether or not it's successful

16:29

. And I think when that

16:31

happens , then

16:34

you have people that fall into

16:36

the camp of well , I'm going to work super hard

16:38

to be noticed

16:40

, to get a pat on the back

16:42

, got to win by doing , and then you're continuing

16:45

to chase that , yeah , and if you don't

16:47

have a really thoughtful , careful leader

16:49

over you , you're

16:51

just on a hamster will of death .

16:53

Yeah , we've said it before

16:55

and I think it's bear repeating here in

16:58

very few instances . Read

17:00

never will anybody at your

17:02

church ask you to do less . I

17:04

have met very few people that are like

17:07

man , it looks like you're doing a lot . You ought

17:09

to do less . Students , parents

17:11

maybe you're volunteers , but

17:13

you're senior leadership like if they want to do extra , I'll

17:16

let them , and so it's going to have to be a little

17:18

bit self-initiated , like

17:20

am I doing all the right things

17:22

or am I just doing all the things ?

17:24

Yes , and that would be the question that

17:26

I would ask , as you have those conversations

17:29

with your leadership . It's

17:31

not I can't do anymore , it's

17:35

trying to have a conversation around

17:37

what are the most important things that

17:40

I could be doing .

17:41

Yeah .

17:42

And to be able to end that

17:44

conversation , to know what you can

17:46

say no to , yes , but

17:48

in the midst of that , those

17:51

are never like hard cut lines

17:53

, right , like have those conversations

17:55

of man , how do we build a healthier

17:57

structure for myself

18:00

but for our ministry , that

18:02

it's able to function in a better way

18:04

? Yeah , and so being able to determine

18:06

, like , what is the most successful things

18:09

that we need to be doing in this season helps

18:11

us know what we need to be doing . But the

18:13

other part that

18:16

you mentioned that I think is crucial

18:18

in that is to realize

18:20

that your health

18:23

at home is

18:26

an important piece that has

18:28

to be structured into

18:30

that . Yeah , like you

18:33

can have all the metrics of growing

18:35

a student ministry , but

18:37

if you're going to burn out in a year and a

18:40

half , what good is it ? Then

18:43

your church is just going to have to start

18:45

over with another guy from

18:47

ground zero , and so it's

18:50

like we've got to begin to have

18:52

real conversations . But then also

18:54

, like I love what you said , make

18:56

it intentional . Get

18:59

your family vacation on

19:01

the schedule . Yeah , that

19:03

that is a piece of the puzzle

19:05

for you of having

19:08

a successful ministry in the spring

19:10

. Yeah , that you would look at

19:13

it at the end of the spring and go

19:15

. We did disciple

19:17

now . Well , service

19:20

project over spring break was okay , dude

19:23

, right .

19:23

Well , okay , so real life testimony

19:25

. Yeah , when I started at the

19:27

Tulsa church we did

19:30

mission trip , service stuff for

19:32

the first three years , because that's what you're supposed to do , yeah

19:35

, but the kids voted for us and

19:37

by year three we were so underserving

19:39

the populations of students that we were regularly

19:41

serving that we cut it , and

19:44

it was . It wasn't because we did good work

19:46

, I mean , we went and volunteered and you know

19:48

, for the kids that didn't have anything else going on , it was

19:50

something . But when we had less

19:52

than like 20 , 25%

19:54

of our student ministry participate , they

19:57

told us I mean it was literally like if this was meant

19:59

to be like , hey , get out and serve

20:01

, it was not getting us out to serve

20:04

. And for a guy married to a teacher

20:06

who spring break was one of the most precious weeks of

20:08

the spring , maybe in gone , three

20:10

days of the five days she had

20:12

off didn't serve us well

20:14

.

20:15

Well , and you can . I think when you get

20:17

real , you can still

20:19

say okay , as a ministry , I'll

20:21

take that as an example . We

20:23

want serving to be an integral part

20:26

of what we do , right ? That

20:28

doesn't mean it has

20:30

to be a trip over spring break , right

20:32

, right , like you can begin to teach

20:34

that , integrate that in a week to

20:36

week basis or in a fall or whatever

20:39

, to incorporate that into your

20:41

ministry . And I think when

20:43

we start to set

20:46

expectation and calendaring , that

20:48

has our own health and minds , but

20:51

it starts from a place of understanding

20:53

what it means to do it well

20:56

and all of these other areas

20:58

, and I think it also requires us

21:00

to be honest .

21:01

Yeah .

21:02

Man , I think sometimes we

21:04

can try to like when we

21:06

, when we feel a failure of an event

21:09

or a thing

21:11

that we do in our ministry , I

21:13

think sometimes we lie to ourself

21:16

Okay , that that is , that is it's

21:18

. It's okay , our

21:20

small group ministry , even though we only have 25%

21:23

of our students , it's okay . It's okay , yeah

21:25

, and it's it's worth doing , it's

21:27

worth doing right , and we continue to let

21:29

it limp along .

21:30

Yeah .

21:32

And internally we know the difference . Oh

21:34

yeah , and those things begin to weigh on

21:36

us . Yeah , and when we're tired

21:39

and we're spent and we're

21:41

continuing to run after

21:44

things and just maintaining

21:46

things that are dying , then

21:48

that takes a psychological hit on us

21:51

. And who takes the brunt of that

21:53

? Oftentimes Right , our family .

21:55

Yeah .

21:56

And because now we're exhausted and we're

21:58

having to do the thing that's already

22:00

not doing well and we've just been lying

22:03

to ourselves that it's OK , instead

22:05

of fixing it .

22:06

Yeah .

22:07

Or what I see over and over again

22:09

is guys hit that

22:11

point and they just move on Because

22:14

it's so much easier to start over at

22:16

a new place and have the honeymoon

22:18

period than

22:20

to be willing to face

22:23

it , change it and

22:26

begin to build something that's more healthy .

22:28

But you know who moving is the hardest on

22:30

your family your family Every time

22:32

. Here's a pitch for

22:34

you in this springtime Don't

22:37

walk in without graphics

22:39

or a binder or a thing . Chad

22:42

loves a formal meeting with a graphics binder

22:44

and a write-up . What

22:46

is the health plan of

22:48

you leading in ministry ? More

22:50

than your health insurance , more than

22:52

the ministry programming plan for

22:55

you to do ministry in a healthy way ? Again

22:57

, there are some things that are obligations , there

23:00

are some things that are collaborations , other ministries

23:02

Sorry , you probably can't get out of VBS

23:04

or helping with senior adult

23:06

luncheon or whatever the obligations are . Those

23:08

are team building things . But

23:11

what is it Like ? Again , vacation

23:13

days are meant to be used

23:15

. If you have a built-in

23:17

Sabbath or day off into

23:19

your work schedule , that's meant

23:22

to be taken . And so some of

23:24

those things , in the same way that you would evaluate

23:26

if D now went well , take

23:28

this low season whether

23:31

you're feeling low or it is low

23:33

or you're wondering what to do and

23:36

be really proactive in evaluating

23:38

how you feel at

23:40

the end of all you've done and

23:42

where it's left you . I think you

23:45

have taught me well that we shouldn't evaluate events

23:47

based on feelings how

23:49

do you think it went ? But I do think

23:51

that there's a layer of how did you feel

23:53

when it was done , not about

23:56

the event , but generally . I

23:58

mean to be transparent . Our team in

24:00

2023 traveled too much . We

24:03

had some success in 2022

24:05

. And we said , well , what's the only thing better

24:07

than traveling a little bit in 2022 ? Traveled

24:10

a whole lot in 2023 , but

24:13

it wore us out and , even though

24:15

we travel a lot still because it's part

24:17

of our work , there were some strategic

24:19

things that were made about the spacing of what

24:21

we did . Who went where . That

24:24

mattered for our ministry and , I think for

24:26

you to sit down , listener , binder

24:29

open , notepad out and to chart

24:31

out the things that are , that your

24:33

health is part of the ministry plan , in

24:36

the same way that you would want small groups

24:38

that are safe and inviting and encouraging

24:41

students to open up . You need to be

24:43

ministering from a place where you have enough bandwidth

24:45

to lead and enough reserve

24:48

to share and give , and

24:50

if you don't , then that's a real concern

24:52

for the health of your ministry .

24:55

My encouragement to anyone is

24:58

you may be hearing this right now and

25:00

you may already be at that place of

25:02

you . Once

25:04

you get tired , a lot of us will push back

25:07

hard . You want to walk into

25:09

your senior pastor's office and just go ?

25:11

we got to change everything .

25:13

My encouragement to use this is

25:16

you didn't get unhealthy overnight

25:18

and you're not going to get healthy overnight .

25:20

Yeah , you're not going to fix it . You're not going to fix it by summer

25:22

, right .

25:24

And so being sometimes

25:27

, sometimes

25:29

our schedule doesn't get any less

25:31

busy , but the

25:33

weight of it can come off . Yeah , to

25:36

realize that you

25:39

don't have to take the entire heel of

25:42

success in one event

25:44

. But

25:48

as you begin to plan and begin to look

25:50

at your calendar for here until

25:52

the summer , ask

25:55

yourself what are you doing

25:57

to stay

25:59

spiritually healthy , emotionally

26:02

healthy , relationally healthy ? Right

26:05

Like , do you have a date night planned

26:07

with your spouse ? Are

26:12

you trying to get out of the office early

26:15

on a Thursday and go pick up your kids

26:17

? Yeah , and instead of just like rushing

26:20

home to do the next thing , take

26:23

them to the park .

26:24

Yeah .

26:25

Go hang out with them and to realize , like

26:27

sometimes now granted

26:30

, we're all in different places and I always want

26:32

you to be wise if that's

26:34

something that would rub your senior pastor

26:37

wrong and have those conversations

26:41

it's okay to not

26:44

just be frustrated with the environment and culture

26:46

you have , but to realize that you're part

26:48

of it that can change it .

26:50

Yeah .

26:51

Man , if you want the churches or

26:54

the people in your church to

26:56

value family , you have to be

26:58

ministers of value family . Yeah , and

27:01

so ?

27:02

And imitate me as I imitate Christ

27:04

.

27:05

Right dude .

27:06

Something like that in scripture . I forget .

27:07

Yeah , maybe , maybe yeah , and

27:11

I think that there are steps that we can

27:13

begin to take that sometimes

27:16

I think we try to separate work

27:18

and us , and

27:20

it will never happen that way .

27:22

Yeah , there's no clean break

27:24

, and so hopefully

27:26

you hear this episode as an invitation . If

27:28

you're in the car , maybe you can find a pause after

27:30

this . If you're in the office , maybe take

27:32

a quiet few moments . It

27:35

is our hope always and

27:37

earnestly that wherever you are , you

27:40

would be considerate of the ways in which

27:42

you're not just doing ministry , but

27:45

who you are as a minister . Calling

27:48

is never about the actual work . Calling

27:51

is about the invitation as a person

27:53

to participate alongside

27:56

the one who has invited you .

28:01

Snack .