0:01

Today , on the Zulu One podcast , we're

0:03

joined by someone close to my heart . She's

0:06

an artist , a creative soul , a

0:08

retired technologist and my mother's

0:11

older sister , Susan

0:13

Wallace . Okay

0:18

, so for

0:20

people out there listening , what's your weekend been like ?

0:27

It's been healing , comforting

0:31

, scary . I

0:36

felt loved , i

0:39

felt taken care of . I

0:42

have felt healed . I've

0:48

felt like this weekend

0:50

has been for me . Wow

0:54

, what

0:56

a gift It truly truly

0:58

is . It truly

1:00

has been .

1:01

Is that a gift that you gave yourself ?

1:05

Partly I gave myself . My

1:08

sister helped . My

1:11

niece , helped My

1:14

nephew , helped My

1:17

nephew's family , because

1:20

being with his family has been

1:22

, i've

1:28

just felt , accepted and loved

1:30

and nurtured

1:32

. The

1:35

whole package .

1:40

Can't beat that Nope .

1:43

And you can't find that just anywhere

1:45

.

1:46

You can't find that just anywhere . So

1:52

tell

1:54

me a little bit about what

1:58

got you to this place . What

2:02

started this journey ?

2:07

Well , i believe my

2:10

journey has

2:13

been in the making for years And

2:19

I've tried different things

2:22

and that's advanced me

2:24

somewhat . I've

2:27

done conventional

2:29

therapy . I

2:32

have been involved in

2:34

Alenon for countless

2:36

years Alenon-

2:39

Yes , that

2:42

is .

2:43

Alenon was such

2:45

an impactful thing . Yes , so

2:47

what is Alenon ?

2:49

It's for families who are

2:51

affected by alcoholics And

2:55

no , it's for families

2:57

who are affected by alcoholism

3:00

, friends

3:02

and families .

3:03

Okay .

3:04

You don't have to have a . It doesn't have to be a relative

3:06

. It could be a friend , And

3:10

a lot of people know what AA is

3:12

, but they don't know what Alenon is And

3:16

Alenon a

3:18

lot of people who are involved in AA

3:20

think naturally , that

3:23

you just go and talk

3:25

about them .

3:27

Okay . So , like the

3:29

alcoholics , think

3:32

that what an Alenon meaning is

3:34

just you talking about them ?

3:36

Right , because what else would you talk

3:38

about Exactly ? They're the most

3:40

important thing in the world .

3:41

It's not a selfish disease at all .

3:42

No , And you don't , yeah , of course .

3:48

You don't talk about them at all . You

3:50

talk about yourself and

3:52

learning how you

3:54

react to the alcoholism

3:57

and the alcoholic And

4:01

learning that you do have a part

4:03

in it .

4:05

Learning that you have a part in it , and

4:08

so does it address the codependency

4:10

piece In some Yes , okay

4:12

.

4:14

So we speak around

4:16

codependency , but

4:21

really my

4:23

reaction to my alcoholic

4:27

just further

4:31

perpetuated the disease and

4:34

the cycle . And

4:37

thinking that I could save him

4:39

, thinking that I could control

4:42

him , thinking

4:46

that I had to just pretend

4:48

that everything was okay and

4:52

don't look behind the curtain because there's

4:54

a shit show going on back there , Yeah

4:57

, yeah , you

5:00

started Alenon years .

5:01

I mean like a long time ago .

5:03

In 1990 . Wow

5:06

, and my husband went

5:08

into rehab And

5:11

I thought at the time he

5:15

doesn't need to go to rehab , he's not an alcoholic

5:17

, he's got a job .

5:22

So it was like the concept of alcoholism

5:24

was like the old timey bomb

5:28

on the streets hiccuping with

5:30

the bottle with the 3X's on it .

5:34

And my husband had a job and he was successful

5:37

, and so

5:39

I thought he couldn't possibly be an

5:41

alcoholic . But oh

5:43

, he hit a fan load of people , he

5:47

could have killed them , and

5:51

they suggested that I go

5:53

to Alenon . And actually

5:56

my daughter's teacher

5:58

took

6:00

his kids to Alateen and

6:03

he had overheard my

6:06

daughter talking to a friend about

6:08

her dad going into rehab , and

6:11

so I was chaperoning an event and

6:13

he came up to me and said you know , i

6:15

take my kids to Alateen , i

6:18

could pick up your daughter and

6:20

take her . And

6:23

I thought I don't need him to do that

6:25

for me , i can take her . And

6:29

that's how I started going to Alenon .

6:34

So 1990 , that's I mean 30

6:36

years ago , that this point you know , Yes

6:39

, Wow , I mean

6:41

that's was

6:43

that kind of the first foray

6:45

into this kind of group

6:47

therapy , kind of .

6:49

Yes , i had an individual

6:51

therapy before that , but

6:55

that's the first time I'd ever , you

6:57

know , worked with a group . And

7:00

then my

7:02

preschool teacher asked

7:05

me if I wanted to work with a

7:07

smaller group who was doing a workbook

7:09

on the steps . And

7:11

so we met for eight years

7:14

consistently , every

7:16

single week . That's

7:19

huge , and those women

7:21

saved my life

7:23

.

7:23

That's incredible . Well , because I've

7:25

always heard you

7:27

know 12 step language in the family

7:29

And I know a

7:31

lot of it comes from that . you know , like expectations

7:35

is resentment under construction . Oh you're

7:37

good , that's a good one . It is , man

7:39

, that's a good one . That one really stuck with me

7:41

.

7:42

And it's hard to grasp .

7:45

Oh yeah , that one really stuck with me . So expectations

7:49

is resentment under construction , because

7:51

it's so like , it's

7:53

so deep in the fact that

7:55

of that assumption of

7:57

responsibility for your shit

8:00

, exactly For your

8:02

shit .

8:02

Exactly .

8:03

That's that . One is that one is always

8:06

really resonated with me .

8:09

And when , um , if

8:11

the alcoholic is still drinking , you

8:15

step out of the dance and do something

8:18

differently , than

8:20

they can't react the same way

8:23

. So

8:25

sometimes that brings the alcoholic

8:27

to sober living

8:29

. Sometimes it doesn't

8:32

Yeah . My

8:34

husband , i believe , was sober

8:36

for a year after rehab and

8:39

um and I continued

8:42

to go to Allen on um

8:45

and then he

8:47

moved on and I

8:52

still was involved in

8:54

Al-Anon but then kind of dropped off

8:57

because I thought I'm not living with an alcoholic

8:59

, i don't need to do this any longer . And

9:02

then my sister was

9:04

in the same situation and

9:06

I brought her back from

9:08

Atlanta to Michigan because

9:11

she was in a bad situation

9:13

And so

9:16

I went with her to Al-Anon

9:18

and thought I would support her And

9:21

, bingo , I still need

9:23

it .

9:23

Yeah , I just I remember that

9:25

time that when you guys were going

9:27

and it was just so

9:30

powerful to see some

9:33

like infrastructure , you know , rather

9:35

than white knuckling Exactly

9:38

You know , rather than white knuckling this thing

9:40

by yourself , And it's like there

9:42

should be an Alalife , you know , like you

9:45

know there should really be an Alalife , Because if you're

9:47

doing something , you know , like man

9:49

, when Miranda

9:51

and I started going to Al-Anon , it's just , it

9:53

was so powerful , It was so powerful

9:56

And it's like if they meet you where you're at , it's

9:58

kind of a not

10:01

you can just sit there and say nothing .

10:03

Non-judgmental .

10:05

You can just sit there and say nothing , absolutely

10:07

Yeah .

10:07

And we've had women who will come for a year

10:10

and not speak . They

10:12

can't speak And then

10:14

all of a sudden they open up and you

10:16

can see the change . You

10:19

can see the change in every person around

10:21

the room And it's amazing . They

10:23

can't see it , but you

10:25

can , looking at the other

10:28

people .

10:29

And it's so much about context That's

10:31

what I found that I saw . It's like , oh

10:34

, my situation so

10:36

unique and blah , blah , blah and all the

10:38

you know demons that you have . And then you go into this

10:40

room and it's like , oh , you're alcoholics

10:43

doing the same thing . Well , welcome to the show

10:45

, kid .

10:46

I'm not unique , And it

10:48

could be a son or a daughter

10:50

, a spouse or a parent

10:52

, but the thread is all

10:54

the same .

10:55

Yeah , the whole thing , yeah , and

10:58

it's so much of a work that , like you

11:00

know , the the Serenity Prayer is

11:02

like just talking about . You know the

11:05

things that you can control , the things that you can control

11:07

and the wisdom to know the difference . It's

11:09

like there's some things you just can't control Right

11:11

, you know and there's things that you

11:14

can't . You can control when you brush your teeth , you

11:16

can control what time you wake up , you can control if

11:18

you make your better or not , but you can't control

11:20

what's happening in Russia and Ukraine

11:22

. You can't control if he's going to drink or

11:24

not , or she's going to drink or not . You can't control any

11:27

of those things . But you can control your reaction

11:29

towards it .

11:30

Absolutely , and

11:32

learning that he didn't drink

11:35

because of something I didn't

11:37

pick up the laundry , or I did this or I

11:39

did that , even though he said it

11:41

, just because he

11:43

said it didn't make it true . He

11:46

drank because he's an alcoholic allergic

11:48

to alcohol And just as

11:51

he was addicted

11:53

to alcohol , i was addicted to him

11:55

And

11:58

that makes that the very same

12:00

with both my sisters .

12:03

That makes sense .

12:05

So I went to support my sister , learned

12:07

that , oh yes , I really do need to be

12:10

here , And that was probably

12:12

10

12:14

years ago .

12:16

Okay .

12:17

And I continue to go because

12:20

it's a wonderful push prescription

12:23

for living .

12:23

Yeah , absolutely .

12:25

And I

12:28

kind of feel sorry for the people who

12:30

don't have that qualifier for

12:32

a dollar a week .

12:34

Yeah , really , For

12:36

a dollar a week And

12:38

you can get a sponsor . You can be as involved

12:40

or not involved in the program as you want .

12:42

And it's like and it's very just kind

12:44

of supportive in that , in that infrastructure , you

12:46

know and you know , if you don't

12:48

want to work it , you don't have to , yeah , but

12:51

if you do , the

12:53

benefits are incredible . Yeah

12:55

, yeah , in every

12:57

single relationship of your life

12:59

, everyone

13:01

co workers , spouses , everyone

13:04

, your children .

13:08

It's such a worker responsibility , you

13:11

know . Yeah , so

13:13

you know

13:15

I've had this , i've had this

13:17

kind of thought about how you know

13:20

, and obviously this is a consolation . This is a podcast

13:22

about consolations usually and then kind of

13:24

everything that orbits around that right Medicine

13:26

work and Tolstoy program And it's really

13:28

about healing and in all

13:31

modalities really . But

13:33

like I always look at everything through that

13:35

, that family

13:37

consolation lens , do

13:40

you think that like ? what do you think the relationship

13:42

with family consolations with the step

13:44

12 step program ? What do you

13:46

think is the most appropriate kind of yin and yang

13:48

or given dance of those two modalities

13:51

?

13:54

I think all of everything

13:58

you try all works

14:00

together , because I've done constellations

14:02

And

14:04

and I just did

14:07

ayahuasca And

14:09

it

14:13

all works together to

14:15

heal .

14:17

Do you think it works on like different levels , like different

14:19

levels of depth of the same

14:21

kind of matrix ?

14:24

Probably , and I'm

14:27

slow , so it's taken

14:29

me a long time to integrate

14:31

, like the Allen

14:33

on thinking into

14:36

my life . And

14:38

and then the constellation thinking , and now

14:42

I've just experienced this ayahuasca

14:45

And it's

14:47

like the top of my head is blown off . Wow , yeah , that's

14:50

a , that's a lot

14:53

, yeah .

14:54

Yeah , that's a lot . So , tell me about that

14:57

experience . The ayahuasca

14:59

, like what ? from from the very

15:02

beginning , it's like you hear about this word and you're

15:04

like what is this ?

15:05

What ?

15:06

is this , This crazy

15:09

week ? Oh , you know these weirdo people .

15:11

Yeah , And I , I , I think I'm never

15:14

I never smoked pot .

15:15

I didn't never any do any drugs I mean

15:18

, that's not me

15:20

.

15:20

And then you know my sister has gone up a deep

15:22

end and she's doing this stuff

15:26

, and my niece

15:28

and my nephew And I'm like , Oh my God

15:30

, um , it's like you know

15:33

psychedelic mushrooms or something . And I'm

15:35

like , i'm like , i'm like

15:38

, um , it's like you know

15:40

psychedelic mushrooms or something

15:42

. And and then

15:44

you know , they start suggesting I

15:46

think about this . And

15:48

you know at first time like I don't know why

15:50

, and then I heard

15:52

that Will Smith has done 13

15:55

.

15:56

Okay .

15:57

And I'm thinking , okay , he's not such

15:59

a such a good place right now

16:01

. It was just after the slap .

16:03

Yeah .

16:04

And um , i think it won't really

16:06

didn't build a good case for

16:08

it , just really you know so

16:12

, um , then

16:14

my sister called and said Okay , there's

16:16

one opening on this date in

16:18

Miami .

16:20

And , um , you have to decide right now . But

16:23

I think I had started down

16:25

the path thinking that I was going

16:28

to do it because I

16:30

had gone off my anti-depressant

16:33

that I had been on for years , since

16:36

my alcoholic left

16:39

Um , and

16:41

I

16:44

was in a tough

16:46

place because I'd lost so

16:50

many people . We'd have

16:52

had a lot of deaths um

16:55

in the family , and

16:57

then I lost my husband , my

17:00

second husband , and he

17:02

was my gift for

17:05

surviving the alcoholic . He

17:08

was an absolute

17:10

gift . And losing him He

17:12

had been with me for all those other deaths

17:14

. And then I was alone

17:16

. So

17:19

I was in kind of

17:21

a dark place and I told

17:23

my sister that I had been stuck and

17:26

darned . She remembered

17:29

I said that and said Well , you

17:31

said you've been stuck . If you want to

17:33

get unstuck , you can

17:35

try this . So

17:39

who then

17:41

? you know ? then , all of

17:43

a sudden she says Okay , you've got to start

17:46

this And

17:48

you can't eat this and this and this and this

17:50

, and you've got to

17:52

do this and get to

17:54

Miami . And I did it .

18:03

And you did it .

18:04

I did it And that was one of the things

18:07

Um grassy ask about

18:09

. You know what are your reflections

18:12

Um somewhere

18:14

towards the end of it And I

18:16

said I cannot believe I did it . I'm

18:18

68 years old . This isn't

18:21

way out of my realm .

18:22

I mean talk about being out of your comfort zone

18:25

. Oh , absolutely . This is 1000

18:28

miles outside your comfort zone . Absolutely

18:30

It's really , oh

18:33

man , I'm going to get emotional . That's really

18:35

courageous , It

18:37

was . That's really brave to

18:40

do that , Because it's not

18:42

like man

18:44

, just the

18:48

power of the human spirit . You know

18:50

, just to be like , I'm going to do something completely

18:52

outside of my comfort zone . Just

18:55

really brave And people are brave

18:58

all the time .

19:01

You know they allow themselves to be .

19:04

Yeah .

19:05

If we don't get in our own way .

19:07

Yeah .

19:11

I can't believe I did it .

19:15

Do you think that , like

19:17

all of this was a culmination to get

19:19

to this point , like doing Al-Anon

19:22

constellations , that like just uncovering

19:24

layers of stuff ? Yes , that

19:27

had you ready for

19:29

this moment to be able to do this big , big

19:31

, because seems like all this stuff is just movement

19:33

right . Movement out of the muck of

19:36

that stuckness right is like being in the same

19:38

cycle , in the same thing . I sometimes

19:40

think that 12 step programs do

19:43

that , like they kind of self indulge a little bit in that

19:45

stuckness program , but then

19:47

you do this other big work and then it gets you

19:49

out of it and then you can use you can continue

19:51

to use that infrastructure as a shared language

19:53

to get out of it .

19:55

Except the 12 stop says that

19:58

you will be of

20:00

service to other people , and

20:03

so I still continue to go . I

20:05

don't live with anyone . I

20:08

still continue to go to

20:10

Allen on because there were

20:12

people there for me And

20:15

I want to be there for other people . It's

20:17

not that I'm not learning anything from it

20:19

, because I always do , but I want to be

20:21

there for other people .

20:23

I couldn't imagine what what that support system

20:25

feels like of people that you've been working with or dealing

20:27

like that . You that have been supporting

20:29

each other for 30 years , you

20:31

know out of this group . That is incredible . It's amazing .

20:39

We had a woman who had no family and

20:42

she had , she had a chronic disease and then she found out she

20:44

had breast cancer . She they really

20:47

couldn't treat the breast cancer because

20:49

of her chronic disease And

20:54

so she knew that she was going to die

20:57

. And she had no one and she didn't want to go into a nursing

20:59

home . So our group was able

21:01

to support

21:03

her through hospice and you know what

21:05

that's like , your , i mean

21:08

, you have nurses and you have support , but you're there

21:10

24 , seven And

21:15

around the clock . we had people doing different things

21:17

. I'd go over . you know , my days were Monday

21:19

, wednesday and Friday . I'd

21:25

go over , get her up in the morning , give her pills . She

21:27

had the death that she wanted . Oh , that's

21:30

beautiful , and

21:34

it was all through Ellen and support

21:36

.

21:38

There's something to be said about a beautiful

21:40

transition .

21:43

Yes , and she taught me so much , so

21:45

much , but

21:49

she was a person at Elena that would drive me nuts in the beginning

21:51

. You

21:55

know like sometimes somebody would

21:57

talk long or something but she would drive me nuts . But

22:00

then towards the end she I sometimes would look

22:02

over at her and she was always cold

22:04

. So

22:08

she always had a coat on and a hat and you

22:10

know , she was , you know , just down to nothing And

22:15

still would come to Elena and it would be like

22:18

I could see around her hat . It

22:22

looked like a halo and

22:25

what she would come out of her mouth

22:27

was so profound Wow , it

22:34

was a she like had edited her words down to the end And

22:40

so the only things that came

22:42

out were profound . It was amazing .

22:48

And there's , you know . One thing that I've learned

22:50

from all the deaths is

22:52

that there's so many profound lessons at the end . Yes , it's such a beautiful

22:54

teacher . Yes

22:56

, you know .

23:01

It is such a privilege to be with someone

23:04

in their final hours .

23:06

Yeah .

23:08

And it doesn't have to be traumatic

23:10

. No , it

23:12

doesn't have to be , you

23:15

know , like taking horrible news and

23:17

doing all that stuff . It

23:19

can be somber

23:21

and sincere and funny . Yeah , you know .

23:24

We know that .

23:26

It can be very funny and it can be

23:28

, you know , moving

23:31

and full of just of beautiful

23:33

moments and pain and just . It can be really

23:35

real and authentic . And

23:37

there's things get real authentic

23:39

when you're at the end Right .

23:42

And just as it's such

23:44

a thrill and an honor to be

23:46

with a

23:48

baby coming into the world , it's

23:51

the same thing .

23:52

Yeah .

23:55

Yeah , do

23:58

you will

24:00

go into this part . You know the the

24:03

the death part , which is interesting . You

24:07

know when grandpa died , you

24:10

know I remember him being there And

24:13

he's like , ok , that's my grandfather . And

24:16

then he , true , lost breath . And

24:18

then he wasn't Right And

24:20

that was the weirdest , most

24:23

real thing I've ever seen , because

24:26

it was like oh , there's a couch Right

24:29

. Zero meaning Right , no

24:31

connection .

24:32

We were all focused on him And

24:34

then we just turned our

24:36

attention . He was gone . We turned our

24:38

attention and he was just over

24:41

here , but that's

24:43

not where the focus was . He

24:46

had left his body .

24:48

It's just he wasn't . You

24:50

know , some people is like no longer with

24:52

us , like that is so yeah

24:55

. It's in and you know we

24:57

have this reverence and this thing for the body

24:59

, but it's like the body was like it

25:02

could have been . I don't know this , this , this , you

25:04

know vase , or this candle it's the same

25:06

day it's there's just no attachment

25:11

or meaning to the vessel , like

25:13

it . Just it just put so much into

25:15

context that we're not our

25:19

meat vessel , you know exactly

25:21

, we're not our container

25:23

. We're not our container .

25:25

And okay , what are we going to put on him , you know

25:27

? oh , wouldn't it be funny to put these white shoes

25:29

on ?

25:31

His balleballe , but

25:34

it was just not a like , a not

25:37

a thing . It wasn't a thing at all . You

25:40

know , it's just . That's so such a profound

25:42

lesson , and you

25:45

can like that when

25:47

you're with somebody there , he's like that person's

25:49

more there than here .

25:51

Yes , yes . And

25:54

at the end , when they're in and out

25:56

and back and forth and and

25:58

with Belinda saying you know well , where

26:00

do all the people go , or

26:04

one time she , you know , opened

26:06

her eyes and said I was just with dad . And

26:12

you know , i just said , well , how is he ? He's

26:16

good .

26:21

That's incredible . Yeah , i

26:23

remember . so you know , for people that

26:25

don't know , my

26:29

cousin Carson was 31

26:31

. Yeah , 31 when he passed

26:34

and short

26:37

battle with cancer metastasized

26:41

. And then there was a hippo endectomy

26:43

for a young , very extremely

26:46

athletic Young

26:48

man And

26:50

his transition was really different . It

26:53

wasn't a transition of somebody that was ready

26:57

to go Right , it

27:00

was almost fighting .

27:01

He fought it .

27:03

Being here and there , right , yes

27:05

.

27:08

Because that's who he was . He

27:10

was a fighter .

27:11

He was an Air Force veteran , he was

27:14

a fighter , he played football . He

27:16

fought his entire life .

27:18

Yeah .

27:20

He was even competitive with death . Yes

27:22

, so of course he would fight it .

27:24

Yeah , yeah , because I

27:26

know I wasn't there obviously for his passing

27:29

, but remember everybody saying how

27:31

you know that and like he

27:33

would leave and then come back .

27:36

Numerous times And you think

27:38

, okay , that's it And

27:41

no .

27:42

Was it .

27:44

And one time he even said whoa

27:46

, did you see what just happened ? I

27:49

just died Wow

27:51

.

27:54

Oh man , that

27:56

is incredible . Yeah

27:59

, wow , hmm

28:03

, there were

28:05

so many lessons in his death . Yes

28:08

, you know There

28:11

were so many lessons in his death . That's

28:13

one of the things that I learned about it , so there

28:15

was just so many lessons in it . You

28:19

know we didn't see eye to eye , you know majority of our

28:21

lives , but they were like so profoundly

28:23

grateful to him . Yeah

28:25

, you know , so profoundly

28:28

grateful .

28:29

And then he came back

28:31

to Marshall Yeah To

28:33

die , and that

28:35

his wife allowed that .

28:37

Yeah , and he's like amazing . Yeah

28:39

, it's pretty

28:42

incredible . So you're from

28:44

a small town in Marshall , central

28:46

Michigan . Yes , town

28:49

of 7000 .

28:50

6800 .

28:51

6800 right now .

28:53

Today .

28:54

Well , 600 and 700

28:56

. 6700 and 99

28:59

, since you're here , Exactly .

29:00

I'll go back to 6800 when you go back Exactly On

29:02

Tuesday .

29:07

What was it like growing up in

29:09

a small town and so much kind

29:12

of death happening ? What was that like ?

29:17

Well , i didn't exactly grow up in

29:20

Marshall , but I've

29:24

been back since

29:26

I was newly

29:30

married , so a long time . The

29:40

thing I love about Marshall

29:42

is that the people are

29:46

passionate , so

29:48

they have convictions

29:51

and so they sometimes fight

29:53

. Okay , but

29:56

if somebody needs something , they're

29:58

there for you . So

30:00

we had so many

30:02

people do so many wonderful

30:05

things for

30:07

us with all of those deaths

30:09

because we just had one after another , after

30:11

another .

30:12

People in town would be like oh Right .

30:14

I could see you walking around and be like oh Right , oh

30:16

, i'm so sorry about filling the blank . You

30:21

know they brought food and they

30:24

just did so many

30:26

things for us to support

30:28

us , and

30:31

one of the really cool things they

30:34

did at Christmas time . Carson

30:36

died in November

30:39

and so

30:42

at Christmas time they set up some trees

30:44

and they were Memorial

30:47

Christmas trees that you could decorate . So

30:50

Thanksgiving , all

30:53

the kids were there and the relatives

30:55

were there and we all made decorations

30:58

for Carson's tree And

31:00

then it was freezing cold and

31:03

the kids and Sydney

31:05

and I went and decorated the tree and

31:07

it was such a bonding awesome

31:10

experience for us . That

31:15

was really cool And that's something

31:17

only Marshall can do .

31:20

Like Grandpa would say that Marshall takes care of

31:22

its widows .

31:23

He did And

31:25

six months before he died they

31:28

came back to Marshall and

31:32

because he

31:34

knew that Marshall would take

31:36

care of mom Six

31:40

months , that's amazing , it was six

31:43

months . Yeah , it was such

31:45

a short period of time , wow , wow .

31:52

What was it like ? I

31:56

mean , i would imagine there's good things and bad things

31:58

about being such a small town . What are

32:00

the cons ?

32:03

The conflicts And

32:05

everyone

32:08

you know thinks they know who you are

32:10

and thinks they know

32:12

your business . But

32:19

, man , the good things outweigh the bad

32:22

They really

32:24

do for me . Yeah

32:32

, i never . I didn't want to raise

32:34

my kids in one spot

32:36

and have them never move , and

32:39

that's exactly what I did . That

32:42

was not my plan .

32:46

But there's something beautiful to that right . There's something beautiful

32:48

to knowing everybody

32:51

and everybody knows you . There's

32:53

a lot of country songs about that , you

32:55

know . the country music industry

32:58

has built

33:00

a whole

33:02

library of music based on that

33:04

concept , right .

33:06

Yes . And

33:08

for me to go into an Allen on meeting

33:10

, my first Allen on meeting and seeing my

33:12

nursery school teacher , I

33:15

thought , oh crap , she's going to know . And

33:19

it took me about three meetings before I

33:21

figured out . Oh wait , a minute , she's

33:23

here for the same reason I am , Yeah . And

33:30

then she continued to teach me

33:32

by starting

33:34

that group that we work

33:36

through the step workbook and

33:39

she taught me to

33:41

her death . She ended up with

33:43

Alzheimer's and

33:45

I would see

33:47

pictures . She ended up moving to Florida with

33:50

her daughter and I'd see pictures

33:52

of her with the most beautiful smile

33:54

. She was just happy as

33:56

can be . She

33:58

taught me so much , Wow

34:01

.

34:02

What was your name ?

34:04

Rosemary . She

34:08

was a beautiful , beautiful woman and she

34:10

ended up her

34:12

first husband died and

34:14

she started dating

34:17

the Methodist minister and

34:20

he lived across the street from us And

34:25

they were so cute

34:27

. They were so cute and he

34:29

just adored her . So

34:35

they'd come over for dinner and he'd say now

34:37

we're going to have dinner and then you need

34:39

to leave . They

34:41

were so stinking cute .

34:43

At like four o'clock in the afternoon .

34:46

And they were in there probably late

34:49

seventies then .

34:52

Wow

34:55

.

34:55

What are some of the benefits ?

34:57

Of living in a small town , The

34:59

support you

35:03

don't have to explain , They

35:06

know . You know

35:08

you've lost your mother , father , sister

35:10

, nephew . They

35:12

know all that If

35:19

they support me

35:22

, they'll support my children and

35:25

vice versa . So

35:27

if they support my children , they'll

35:29

also support me . And

35:32

when something bad happens

35:34

, they

35:36

rally around . You know they're having

35:39

countless families

35:41

that maybe they've lost their

35:43

home to a fire and

35:45

or cancer

35:48

or whatever . And they just

35:50

rally around and all of a sudden

35:53

you know they've raised enough money

35:55

to get the person

35:57

through And

36:00

they may not even know them . They may even know

36:02

the name , or oh

36:04

, that's my doctor's daughter

36:06

And so I'm going to support

36:08

her . Wow

36:11

, And some

36:14

of my children's teachers

36:16

taught

36:18

me , They taught

36:20

my children , And some

36:23

even have taught grandchildren

36:25

.

36:26

Really Yes , wow

36:29

, that's incredible Yeah .

36:31

Geez . Not

36:33

too long ago I was at Shuler's

36:35

and a restaurant for dinner

36:38

And with

36:40

some friends and the friends

36:42

are older than I am He had had

36:45

Mr Ickes was

36:47

our English teacher . He had had Mr

36:49

Ickes , i had Mr Ickes . He

36:52

, mr Ickes , came to Billy's open

36:54

house my son's open house and

36:56

made him a book , made

36:58

him a little book that he drew pictures

37:00

in . Mr Ickes was at

37:02

Shuler's Geez

37:04

And one time during a conference I said

37:07

you don't remember me , i was really

37:09

quiet . He said what's

37:11

your name And I told him

37:13

and he said oh , you

37:16

sat in the second seat

37:18

in the first row

37:20

. I remember

37:22

you .

37:24

That's incredible Yeah .

37:28

Wow .

37:34

So you can really understand the

37:37

context of a town or a community

37:40

. Right , It's like you really understand the fabric

37:42

of what that community's like . Yes , I

37:46

mean we were talking about earlier today about

37:48

kind of that

37:50

history that Syndrome

37:52

Michigan has , about

37:54

the sanatoriums , about the Kellogg's

37:57

. You know , the

38:00

circumcision push , the

38:02

puritanism kind

38:04

of the sexual repression . What

38:07

do you think is that effect that's been in the

38:10

larger community ?

38:13

I had never thought about it until

38:15

we started discussing it today . I'd

38:18

never thought of that , but

38:22

it is rampant And

38:25

there have been some

38:27

issues in our town .

38:33

Yeah , And it's so much about it and

38:35

just stems from unresolved trauma . right , Absolutely

38:38

.

38:38

Yeah .

38:40

Absolutely Yeah .

38:44

So much . Of it is just those patterns

38:47

repeating .

38:49

And not being at trust .

38:52

And not being addressed . Yeah

38:57

, just like Alan starts addressing those things

38:59

and starts creating those scenarios And

39:01

I don't know

39:04

many other things . I know Constellations

39:06

does it And maybe you know some

39:08

other modalities address that stuff , and

39:11

just I'm trying to the thing that I'm just

39:13

kind of working on not working on but just

39:15

very curious about . It's

39:18

like how do you address

39:21

unresolved trauma in a communal

39:23

fabric , right , and

39:26

it's like how many people in that community

39:29

does it take to change the momentum

39:31

and address

39:34

the things that need to be healed ? Because

39:37

there's no doubt that it's an incredible community

39:39

that has all this benefit

39:41

and all these good things , right , like

39:44

, how do you address and make the community stronger

39:46

by giving an infrastructure for

39:48

unresolved trauma ?

39:51

I think it takes brave people to

39:54

step up , step

39:56

out and speak the

39:58

truth And pull

40:01

back that veil And

40:04

not let it continue

40:06

And

40:09

pretend it's not happening . Yeah

40:11

, That's the scariest part .

40:13

Yeah , that's the scariest part , for most people is to look

40:15

at it , you know .

40:17

And I think that's for me . What

40:19

Allinon did in the very

40:22

beginning was looking at

40:24

it , saying

40:26

this is what's happening , Not

40:28

hiding it , Not trying to

40:30

be the perfect family and

40:33

show the world that , oh yeah , we're

40:35

all fine , But

40:38

pulling back the curtain , looking at

40:40

it and saying this is what's going on

40:42

, And

40:45

with

40:47

my sisters and I we're

40:49

all very , very close , But

40:51

we hid that from each

40:53

other . What was going on

40:55

in our own homes ?

40:57

So in an Allinon meeting , you know what I learned

40:59

. What fine stands for Fucking

41:02

, insane , neurotic and exhausted .

41:07

We were all fine , all of us

41:09

, absolutely

41:13

.

41:14

So okay , that's . I think

41:16

that's a good segue into kind of the

41:19

next gear into

41:21

this conversation . is that okay ? so where

41:24

does you and your sisters

41:26

right , and one of your sisters is my mother , yes

41:28

, you know clearly , this is what

41:31

this conversation is . So what

41:33

are your sisters and my mother and tell

41:35

me about ? what's

41:39

the three legs of the stool

41:41

concept ? What's that

41:43

? Where did that ? what does that come from ? How

41:45

do you address it ? How do you , how do you understand

41:48

that , that family

41:50

dynamic ?

41:52

So my parents

41:54

were a unit and

41:57

the three of us were a unit And

42:00

my dad was driven

42:03

. He was , he traveled

42:06

a lot . He

42:08

, you know , in later years

42:10

owned his own business and

42:13

so

42:15

and my mom was supporting him . Like

42:19

my sisters and I , i

42:21

believe that our

42:23

mom was addicted to our dad and

42:27

and the world revolved around him

42:29

, so she was really busy . He

42:33

was a busy man . He was a busy man

42:36

And so

42:39

she was busy taking care of him

42:41

and trying to control

42:44

, and you know like

42:46

interference and you know like

42:48

right right Run that

42:50

allow that whole show . And then

42:52

there were the three of us .

42:54

I'm gonna keep the Benny Hill thing going on

42:56

.

42:56

Right Yeah . And

42:59

one of his business cohorts

43:04

always referred to him as PT

43:07

, PT Barnum

43:09

.

43:11

And it's kind of it's kind

43:13

of was . Yeah , he kind of was Yeah , yeah , yeah

43:16

.

43:18

So there was a lot to deal with , but then

43:21

that kind of left the three of us

43:23

to fend for ourselves and

43:27

my role as

43:29

the oldest . I

43:31

felt and and I

43:33

think I was told

43:35

this I mean they always said take

43:37

care of your sisters .

43:40

Yeah , yeah .

43:41

Watch out for your sisters .

43:42

What a huge amount of responsibility .

43:44

Right , I did something wrong which

43:47

my youngest sister was

43:50

known to do once in a while

43:52

. It

43:55

was my responsibility to watch

43:58

out for her and make sure she didn't

44:00

do that .

44:04

Oh yeah .

44:07

Do you think it's ? it comes as a defense mechanism

44:10

for you guys to come together as that triangle

44:12

of ?

44:14

Yes , so when we lost , when Cindy

44:16

and I lost one leg , the

44:20

stool fell down Big

44:23

time That

44:27

was . That was devastating . It

44:29

was not our first loss . Our dad

44:31

had died first , but

44:33

this was the really

44:35

and she was . She was not

44:37

old , she was 50 . She

44:42

was 52 or 55 .

44:44

Yeah , 53 .

44:45

Somewhere in there . So she was not old

44:47

. It was too young for her

44:49

to die , and

44:52

that , just you

44:54

know , knocked the legs out on it from under

44:56

us .

44:59

Because there wasn't . Do you think it was because

45:01

of the proximity

45:04

of you three that there wasn't

45:06

space for each one to be like an

45:08

independent unit on

45:11

your own ?

45:12

Right , we were all . We were Amashed

45:14

Once , totally , totally

45:17

, we were one unit

45:19

, one stool .

45:22

I couldn't imagine that what that's like , what

45:26

losing her would be like . It was

45:28

awful , it's like you die

45:30

.

45:33

What do you mean ?

45:34

Like a piece of you Right .

45:35

Dying Right . Absolutely , yeah

45:38

, absolutely .

45:43

Like you literally feel like a piece of you

45:45

is dying , like your arm and leg

45:47

and like Right Lung .

45:49

Yeah , and you walk around

45:51

afterwards and think don't

45:54

people know that ? you know I'm missing an

45:56

arm . How

46:00

could you expect me to deal with anything ? I'm missing

46:02

an arm ?

46:06

No , i don't know What

46:11

gifts were in that transition Um

46:17

or were there any ?

46:19

Oh , absolutely Oh . She

46:22

had the best death of

46:24

anyone I know . I mean

46:26

she was like a queen . She

46:29

lived in this gorgeous

46:32

apartment that . I mean

46:34

she couldn't afford Um

46:36

it was a cool place .

46:37

It was . It was a very cool place .

46:40

And so many people came to visit her

46:42

and talk with her and

46:44

bring her presence in , and and

46:47

Cindy

46:50

would just . You know , what do you want

46:52

today ? You want a baloney sandwich . I

46:57

mean because ? we ate baloney sandwiches when we

46:59

were little um with Fritos

47:01

on them And um

47:03

, she , just she

47:05

had the very best death

47:08

And

47:12

we laughed and we cried

47:14

, and and

47:17

the family all came together . It

47:19

was , i mean , nobody

47:22

could ask for more . She

47:28

got everything she wanted in

47:30

her funeral . We discussed that And

47:33

you know what ? This is one

47:36

of the lessons I've learned with um

47:39

Belinda

47:42

staff . One night I was

47:44

, it was my turn to

47:46

um sleep on the couch next to her bed

47:48

And um , in

47:51

the middle of the night I woke up and she was awake

47:53

and and I started to

47:55

say you know , Belinda , i just

47:58

want to tell you . And she said , nope

48:00

, we're not doing that . I

48:03

was going to say goodbye And

48:06

she said , no , we're not doing it , and

48:09

I didn't . And

48:13

then , um , my

48:15

husband had Parkinson's , so

48:17

I knew what

48:19

was coming . I didn't think it was going to

48:21

be as fast as it was , but

48:25

, um , we had , you

48:27

know , kind of had the conversation of

48:29

what he wanted when he died

48:31

, and but not , you

48:34

know , like someday , yeah

48:36

, not concrete conversation . And

48:41

he just kept saying , well , I want to be with you

48:43

. I want to , i just want to be with you And

48:47

um , and

48:49

he never acknowledged that he was dying

48:52

And you

48:54

know he was in a hospice and you

48:56

know he's in a hospital bed and he

48:58

was at home , but he never

49:00

acknowledged that he was dying . So we never

49:03

had the conversation , And

49:06

what I've learned is to

49:09

have those conversations , no

49:11

matter how hard they are . Have

49:13

those difficult conversations

49:15

. It's so important because

49:18

once they're gone you

49:21

don't have the opportunity , and

49:27

that's something I hope I will keep

49:29

with me and and

49:31

spread that message .

49:35

Oh yeah .

49:38

I mean , I know that there's

49:41

never a good time to have that conversation . No

49:43

but it's so important

49:45

, it's so important , yeah , yeah .

49:49

I felt robbed because I

49:52

didn't have it with

49:54

both of them .

49:56

Were there things that weren't said , that you wanted

49:59

to say ?

50:00

No , i mean , he knew I

50:02

loved him . He knew that , Um

50:05

, and I knew he loved

50:07

me . So there wasn't

50:09

anything um

50:12

unsaid other

50:14

than you know , what

50:17

do you expect me to do when you die

50:19

? What do you expect me to live ? How

50:22

am I going to do that ?

50:29

Was it almost like asking

50:31

for permission to continue ?

50:35

Probably I

50:38

didn't want to .

50:41

That's big .

50:43

The person who knew

50:47

me the best , saw me , was

50:51

gone .

50:54

Wow .

50:59

And I didn't want to be here without

51:01

him . Yeah

51:04

.

51:06

Oh , wow .

51:15

That was the most difficult

51:17

for me . Belinda

51:20

was really , really , really hard . But

51:24

losing Dave because

51:26

he was always there , he

51:28

was there for me with Belinda , i

51:31

think Dave was the

51:35

most difficult .

51:43

Do you feel now that you can ?

51:48

I feel like I can honor him by

51:50

living and caring on Because

51:54

he believed in me , he loved me

51:56

, he knew I could do it

51:58

.

52:00

That's beautiful .

52:01

So if it

52:04

would be a dishonor to him

52:06

if I didn't continue to live

52:08

, That

52:14

, in his honor , he'll

52:16

continue . Yes

52:19

.

52:24

Give me goosebumps . Wow

52:29

, is there such that

52:31

danger of following Right

52:33

? You know Right . Yeah

52:36

, that happens so often .

52:38

And that we were talking about earlier

52:40

. That happened with Carson and Bullitt .

52:43

Yes , so

52:45

let's talk about that a little bit . So

52:50

my

52:52

aunt is

52:55

diagnosed

52:57

with angiosarcoma And

53:02

then it metastasized to

53:04

her . She broke her hip . That's

53:06

how they found out that she had this cancer

53:09

. She

53:11

went to pick up a letter that

53:14

fell on the ground and bent over

53:16

and collapsed And

53:18

then they saw see that her femoral

53:20

head is dead Right And

53:23

has a . She breaks her hip Right

53:26

And then they find out that

53:28

it is cancer And

53:31

within four months

53:33

four months she's

53:36

gone Right

53:39

And she's a middle child Well , she's the youngest

53:41

right And

53:43

her son that

53:45

they were very close , extremely

53:48

close . Shortly

53:53

after develops congiosarcoma

53:56

.

53:56

Yes , Six months to the

53:58

day after

54:01

his mother died , he

54:03

had surgery on his hip to remove

54:06

assist .

54:07

So it was the same hip like the

54:09

left leg . Yes , the

54:11

left hip and his femoral

54:13

head was dying or decaying . Yes

54:15

, And he has a full hip replacement

54:18

.

54:19

He had a full hip replacement And

54:22

then when he had the hip first

54:24

they removed assist . Then

54:27

it was maybe , maybe

54:31

six months later that

54:33

they did the hip replacement and

54:36

found the congiosarcoma

54:38

. So

54:40

then it was probably

54:42

six

54:45

months after that that they

54:47

did . They had to do a hemipelopectomy

54:50

.

54:51

Hemipelopectomy , that's a removal

54:54

of the full leg and a

54:56

quarter of the hip right

54:58

, yes , of the pelvic foot bone

55:00

.

55:02

Yes , and

55:04

then it was maybe

55:07

six months later that he was gone .

55:11

Because it had metastasized those lungs .

55:13

Yes .

55:13

Yes , so

55:16

it talks . I mean probabilistically

55:20

two

55:22

different types of extraordinarily rare cancers

55:25

.

55:25

Right .

55:27

Metastasizing and presenting

55:29

in the same way .

55:31

Same place .

55:32

Same place And

55:36

then both people

55:38

passing not

55:40

to say that , you

55:42

know , this is medical evidence , but it has a strong

55:44

suggestion that there's something more at

55:46

play . Absolutely

55:50

, What a lesson .

55:52

Yeah , yes .

55:54

You know , and in constellation work

55:56

we know , that there's

55:59

books out there . I think I can't remember what

56:01

his name is , but there's a book out there called Even If It Costs

56:03

Me My Life .

56:05

Wow .

56:06

Yeah , That's like I'm

56:08

so loyal to you that

56:11

I will even sacrifice my life out

56:13

of unconscious loyalty to the family system

56:15

. Wow , So that gives

56:17

me goosebumps

56:20

. I mean that is the

56:23

most powerful force in the world

56:25

is that loyalty . Because

56:28

, if you know , and that gift that Carson

56:31

and we called my Aunt Belinda

56:33

, aunt Boo , gave

56:35

me , is that if

56:37

a kid , you know , a young man , super

56:40

athlete , elite athlete , air

56:44

Force veteran , combat veteran

56:46

, you know , officer , us

56:49

Air Force Academy , you

56:51

know , loved by many rock

56:54

star type type of dude , right Rock

56:57

, super rock star , there's a mural at the Air Force

56:59

Academy of him you know , superstar

57:05

right That if

57:07

none of that could have stopped him

57:10

and that loyalty is

57:12

so strong than anything

57:15

is possible , Right .

57:18

And he would even say I

57:20

want to be with Mama Bird .

57:22

Yeah .

57:27

Man , oh , and

57:30

I remember Aunt Boo not wanting to be here

57:33

, right ? You know that's

57:35

the reality , right ? Just

57:37

I just remember her not wanting to be here and her saying

57:39

it you know , and it's just so heartbreaking

57:42

. Yeah , you know

57:44

, and it just makes me angry too .

57:48

Yeah . You know , because she was so

57:50

stinking funny . Yeah , she

57:52

was fun and she

57:55

was awesome .

57:57

Yeah .

57:59

But she , she

58:03

, she was finally able

58:05

to let go of her husband at

58:08

the very last second , but

58:13

I don't know if she ever really let go

58:15

.

58:16

Yeah .

58:17

I mean she divorced him , but I

58:19

don't believe she ever let go .

58:21

Yeah .

58:25

I mean , i just know how . And

58:29

you put into the unresolved

58:31

trauma and to that , into that mix and it's

58:33

all this manifestation of what that looks like

58:35

. You know , and it's just so painful that there

58:39

is an alternative . But also

58:41

you have to consent to people's destinies . Yes

58:44

, you know , and respect them and say I

58:46

consent to that being

58:49

your path . Yeah

58:51

, you know it's so hard because you don't

58:53

want to . And you know the train , you

58:55

know my man , i'm going to get emotional . My

58:59

mom used to say it's like I know the train's coming

59:01

and it's going to blow everything

59:03

up . It's like and there's nothing

59:05

you can do about it . You

59:08

know the train wrecks coming right

59:11

, like the bridge is blown up and

59:13

the train's on its way and it's not going to stop

59:16

. And you just like , please

59:18

, no , just

59:21

so catastrophic , but

59:24

to consent to the , to that

59:26

, to that journey . You

59:29

know that's so

59:31

tough . That's such a tough thing because

59:33

we all want to control , right , right .

59:36

Yeah , and when she was first diagnosed

59:38

I knew

59:40

she wouldn't go

59:43

through treatment and I was angry

59:46

. But

59:51

then I understood Yeah , it's

59:54

her choice , she got to die

59:56

the way she wanted to And

1:00:00

I don't know , as I mean , i think

1:00:02

treatment would have maybe prolonged her

1:00:04

death . Who

1:00:06

wants to live like that ? Yeah

1:00:11

, it never would have cured her . Yeah

1:00:14

.

1:00:18

But what I mean ? such

1:00:21

profound lessons in it . You

1:00:23

know , it's like you almost have to consent

1:00:25

to learning all those lessons and it

1:00:27

being the way it is right . And we , i know we reminisce

1:00:30

and we say , man , it would have been

1:00:32

awesome if they were here to be able to go through this

1:00:34

. But that's the , that's

1:00:36

the trade off . You know

1:00:38

that's the trade off

1:00:41

And that's

1:00:43

okay .

1:00:45

That's the hard part .

1:00:46

That's the shitty part .

1:00:47

They're just like that's okay . Yeah

1:00:53

, yeah

1:00:56

.

1:00:59

I'm glad we're here .

1:01:00

I'm so glad I'm here . I'm

1:01:03

so very glad . I'm so glad I did

1:01:05

this . I'm so glad

1:01:07

I took this this

1:01:11

time for myself and for my

1:01:14

journey and my

1:01:16

healing . And I'm

1:01:18

glad I did it for my kids

1:01:20

. They

1:01:24

don't want to deal with a nutcase . They've

1:01:29

dealt with me enough .

1:01:34

I mean , but this , this is interesting too And

1:01:37

I and I'm , you

1:01:39

know , when I was talking , so I took a comedy

1:01:41

class , right , i stand up comedy class , and

1:01:44

the guy was a shout out

1:01:47

to Michael Panzeca . So

1:01:49

Michael was like

1:01:52

a family therapist , you know , type of addiction

1:01:54

specialist , kind of person , and that there's

1:01:56

this , this like a wellness

1:01:58

place here in South Florida , and

1:02:02

you know he was like you

1:02:04

know , no , no , nothing to do with consolation , never

1:02:07

talked about consolation . See , we know what a family consolation

1:02:09

was . And he's like you

1:02:11

don't treat the addict man . He's

1:02:13

like kind of this laid back guy smoke cigarettes

1:02:15

, and he's like you don't treat the family man

1:02:17

. You don't treat the , the , the addict

1:02:19

, you treat the whole family . He's

1:02:23

like when , when the addict and when you said

1:02:25

that when the addict learns how

1:02:27

to dance salsa and

1:02:29

steps dancing merengue with the family

1:02:32

, that's what , literally what he said stops

1:02:34

dancing merengue with the family , they either have to learn

1:02:36

how to dance salsa or they stopped

1:02:39

dancing . And you're like , when

1:02:41

he said that , i was like , oh my gosh , i was

1:02:43

so profound . Yeah , you

1:02:46

know , and and and that's what happens in many

1:02:48

when you solve , when you're not solved

1:02:50

, but when you heal the patterns of trauma

1:02:53

. People

1:02:55

stop dancing salsa . They

1:02:59

stop you know , they

1:03:02

stop dancing that old dance that happened

1:03:04

, that you know you be like Hey , every

1:03:06

time I've done A and

1:03:08

B , c's happen . And then you do A

1:03:10

and B and it doesn't . It's

1:03:14

like a chord that doesn't resolve

1:03:16

. You don't want a song . It's like and they

1:03:19

, you know , we expect the court , the song to resolve

1:03:21

, like the court and the buildup to resolve . It's like

1:03:23

it doesn't resolve And you're like this is weird

1:03:25

, what has changed ? And

1:03:28

so that song either dissipates and

1:03:30

fades away and you create a

1:03:32

new song , or

1:03:35

you go and and or leave

1:03:37

the music altogether . Right , it's

1:03:39

like you can . That's . It's that dynamic that you like

1:03:42

and it's not . I don't . I don't think

1:03:44

it's only with addicts , i think it's with all family

1:03:46

dynamics , right , and

1:03:48

that you won't be the

1:03:50

same person that you were yesterday and

1:03:52

you'll go back and you're not going to be the same person

1:03:55

And the whole ecosystem

1:03:57

will have to adapt to that new version of who

1:03:59

you are And they'll choose

1:04:01

to adapt as you get it differently . You

1:04:03

see , and I'm like man , that we used to have

1:04:05

this thing and it just no longer

1:04:07

happens . It's so

1:04:10

, so , so profound and interesting

1:04:12

. It's

1:04:19

a lot of shifting .

1:04:20

Yes , yes .

1:04:23

So what are some lessons that you're taking for this weekend ?

1:04:26

Oh man , so many

1:04:29

, so many , so

1:04:32

many . I , i'm still processing

1:04:34

, wow

1:04:38

, still processing , and

1:04:42

I , i think I will be for quite some time

1:04:44

, yeah .

1:04:47

You got to let the dust settle for a long time . Yeah

1:04:49

, it's going to , and it's going to settle

1:04:51

in a completely new place .

1:04:53

It'll be interesting , really

1:04:57

interesting , yeah

1:04:59

. So

1:05:02

thank you , you're welcome For your part

1:05:04

in this and you've had a huge part

1:05:06

in it .

1:05:07

Thank you for being open . I

1:05:11

love you you

1:10:08

.