0:00

we

0:00

will will hear arguments this morning and chase 19

0:03

1392 dobbs versus

0:05

jackson women's health organization

0:12

hey

0:12

hey this is is rhiannon on

0:14

this emergency episode of 524 heater

0:17

michael and and i are are talking about about the over ruling

0:19

of roe versus wade in dobbs

0:22

first jackson women's and opinion,

0:24

which dropped yesterday, a 623

0:26

conservative majority ruled that the the

0:28

constitution does not not protect the right

0:30

to an abortion

0:32

robers his weight and planned parenthood versus can

0:34

see haunt our country they have no

0:36

basis in constitution they have no home

0:38

in history or traditions they've

0:40

damage the democratic process they

0:42

poison the law

0:43

we've been saying that this was coming for a long

0:45

time and we take no pleasure

0:47

in being right i ,

0:49

that as you listen to this emergency episode

0:52

you'll hear exhaustion and disappointment

0:54

in our voices many of

0:56

you com suffice for see here righteous

0:58

anger full throated indignation

1:00

throated the state of affairs that supreme court the

1:03

day we are morning the state affairs

1:06

on this episode we give you are angle

1:08

on the case the response by the democratic

1:11

party and what we think coming next

1:13

regarding reproductive rights and the legal

1:15

mazes this decision has created

1:18

the be honest there's a little despair

1:20

there till you , listening to

1:22

three people who have followed the supreme court

1:24

and it's failings weekly for

1:26

more than two years we are tired

1:29

we also know that the fight doesn't end

1:31

here it's only just beginning

1:34

this is five to for a podcast

1:36

about how much the prequel

1:41

welcome to five four

1:44

where we are saddled the time

1:47

yeah hi i'm peter i'm

1:50

here with he added hi

1:52

hello michael a everybody

1:56

the net energy for a metaphor so we're

1:58

just gonna go straight in talking

2:00

about

2:01

dobbs v jackson women's

2:03

health a the opinion that is now

2:05

officially overturned roe

2:08

v wade making this

2:11

technically an emergency episode was

2:13

although as we've discussed recently amongst

2:15

ourselves were at a point where

2:17

a lot of our episodes reflect some some level

2:19

of emergency the announcer said he

2:21

had insisted just these

2:24

crazy times we live in right now so

2:27

as i'm sure everyone listening nose

2:29

listening early may draft of the majority

2:31

opinion overturning roe written

2:33

by justice alito the week

2:36

to the public there

2:37

was much discussion about whether

2:39

the majority would hold whether the opinion

2:42

would materially change it cetera et

2:44

cetera but any ends

2:46

almost nothing james and the final

2:48

majority opinion is substantively

2:50

identical to what was leaked yeah

2:52

i do want note for second hear that law professors

2:55

and clerks and people or whatever

2:58

will , they tell you about the supreme court

3:00

opinion vetting process still talk about

3:03

how they circulate dress and

3:05

then they read each other's drafts and they comment

3:07

on them in blah them blah blah

3:09

they see conferences and descents

3:11

and responses ups and it sounds very deliberate

3:13

is and very cooperative

3:16

the don't know maybe that's the case in some opinions but

3:18

it's worth noting that is shit

3:20

looked almost identical yeah

3:22

to the draft yeah the final

3:25

draft looks a lot like the original draft

3:27

and i do wonder the to a degree

3:29

that's just like some you know

3:31

self important like mythmaking

3:34

right right that they already know what they want

3:36

see at least like hot button issues they know what they

3:38

want to say in they're gonna say it and maybe those

3:40

thrown few paragraphs be like the descendants

3:42

is this but bilbo bug

3:44

but like it's

3:47

functionally the same right alito

3:50

rights majority the concurrence

3:52

from canada

3:54

and an and another from roberts and

3:56

another from thomas and

3:58

a joint descent by the three

4:01

liberal justices though

4:05

or episode published after

4:07

the majority opinion week goes

4:09

through it's reasoning in deaths

4:11

but we can go over the basics again

4:14

at the fourteenth amendment says that government

4:16

cannot deprive you of life liberty

4:18

or property without due process

4:20

of law but , means has

4:22

been the subject of some controversy

4:25

but the courts precedent is that it means

4:27

that certain fundamental liberties

4:29

and rights are protected by the constitution

4:32

even if they are not specifically enumerated

4:35

in the constitution in griswold

4:37

v connecticut in nineteen sixty in

4:39

nineteen court held that the claws protects a person's

4:42

right to privacy which includes their

4:44

right to use contraception and

4:46

then and roe v wade in nineteen

4:48

seventy three court held at right

4:50

privacy includes the right to obtain

4:52

an abortion

4:54

what the court sense here in overturning

4:57

roe that that clause

4:59

of the for kinda mehmet only protects rights

5:01

and liberties that of a deeply rooted

5:04

traditions in our law

5:06

the the majority saying look there's

5:08

no long tradition of protecting

5:11

abortion rights and therefore

5:13

therefore is not protected under

5:15

the fourteenth amendment the

5:18

again we went through this send him

5:20

and bunch of detail by our

5:22

basic position is this

5:25

if your understanding of the scope of constitutional

5:27

rights that they should be limited

5:30

to scope they had at time of their ratification

5:32

you are advocating for a government guided by

5:34

the idea that women and minorities and poor

5:36

people are second class citizens and such

5:38

as that like them lefty spin

5:41

right that's the only conclusion that

5:43

can be drawn the government the time the

5:45

founding and at the time of the ratification

5:48

of the fourteenth amendments was one that

5:50

explicitly provided women and minorities

5:52

with fewer race and than white men if

5:54

you believe that our understanding

5:56

of liberty under the constitution the

5:58

be predicated on the laws of

6:00

that era you are seeking to enshrine

6:04

that bigotry into our modern

6:06

law that's

6:07

exactly right and i think what's important

6:09

to to point out about majority is

6:12

paid based this reasoning on

6:15

a very narrow definition

6:17

of the right being protected

6:19

is so they're saying

6:21

yeah back when the fourteenth amendment was passed

6:24

there was no you know general broad

6:26

protection of the right to an abortion will

6:28

sure but elite i was brushing

6:30

aside that really white

6:33

cases like grids walden roe v wade found

6:35

was that the constitution and

6:38

the fourteenth amendment protect

6:40

these ideas of personal autonomy

6:42

of dignity of equality interest

6:45

rates and what flows from that must

6:47

be some sort of right to privacy and

6:49

what flows from that right is the right to contraception

6:52

the right to an abortion the right to make person

6:54

all private decisions it on

6:56

your own as a free percent

6:58

place and that narrow

7:01

definition of what alito then

7:03

is the right here to say right

7:05

to an abortion it's not being protected by

7:07

constitution that is in and

7:09

of itself sort of arbitrary

7:12

is absolutely judicial activism

7:14

is absolutely policy choice ray

7:17

and that completely misses why

7:19

the descent and what liberals and and

7:21

pro choice advocates say

7:24

about what this right really

7:25

yeah and there's particular line

7:28

i wanted to mention in the majority opinion

7:30

that think it's like really sort of

7:32

illustrates what's going on here and

7:36

but when it leaders describing

7:38

the history of are

7:40

you know abortion rights this country

7:42

and roe v wade and he describes will

7:44

be weighed this is what he says

7:46

he says it imposed

7:49

the same a highly restrictive

7:51

regime on the entire nation

7:54

so i wanna i wanna

7:56

unpack this for a little bit because

7:58

if you are pregnant the

8:01

who wants to get an abortion being

8:03

prevented from doing so his

8:06

restrictive right and

8:08

or supreme court decision he bet is allows

8:11

you do so his liver

8:13

tours right right so

8:15

when he says the you know

8:17

ruby wait imposed a restrictive

8:20

regime the question

8:22

is who's being restricted right

8:24

what resume on his right who's

8:26

being restricted here and it's not

8:29

millions of pregnant people

8:31

it is the handful

8:34

of mostly white mostly

8:37

old man who

8:39

want to control

8:41

women's bodies yeah that's

8:43

is being restricted here that's

8:46

who he's prioritize since that's movie center

8:49

they and their political constituency you bunch

8:51

of fucking moralizing

8:54

theocratic dazzles that type

8:56

is literally a point at which and we'd had talked

8:58

about as before but alito is like citing

9:00

legal theory from like the thirteenth

9:03

century

9:05

m seen in it's own right but notably

9:07

as follows a day after the court said

9:10

in bruin the gun rights case

9:12

means that struck down new york's

9:14

gun permitting regime said

9:17

in that case that events predating

9:19

the constitution by too much

9:22

shouldn't be relied on in interpreting

9:24

it right and i at this

9:26

point it feels like pretty trying to point out hypocrisy

9:29

just like we're little bit beyond that but

9:31

it's important remember like this new principal here

9:33

narrate they're just making shit up yeah

9:35

they go completely arbitrary

9:37

yeah yeah and the leads opinion

9:40

contained all sorts of arguments that seems sort

9:42

of half baked and city and so

9:45

people assume that they'd be edited out in

9:47

the south america since but

9:49

just about all of all made it in the sell

9:51

them to arguments that imply that abortion

9:53

providers are doing racist

9:56

eugenics still in arguments

9:58

that rely on the work of sir matt you hail

10:00

who died in that sixteen seventy

10:02

six and also fully believed

10:05

in witchcraft make a real fact about

10:07

him still in you know perhaps

10:09

the elite made him feel pressure not

10:12

to at it and that's what's happening

10:14

here right but also perhaps

10:16

his sister the big dumb piece

10:18

of shit yeah know like a real stupid

10:20

financing that's that's on the table as

10:22

well as absolutely at his yeah

10:24

yeah i did notice a couple of changes

10:27

one aesthetic change was at the original draft

10:29

had language where it said like there is

10:31

no basis in our constitution for a right

10:33

to abortion zero none

10:36

since this isn't what i remembered mostly because

10:38

like even by alito standards

10:40

it's like a little bit message board argument

10:43

kind of kind of i have snare and

10:45

then it was gone and draft so guess he was like

10:47

well the embarrassing

10:49

write like this is this yeah i'm

10:51

gonna i'm gonna remove s the

10:54

only large substantive change that

10:56

i caught was that

10:59

mostly in response to the descents

11:01

the majority continuously emphasizes

11:03

the state's interest in protecting

11:06

fetal life which

11:08

is notable because it's potentially laying

11:10

the groundwork in the event of court ever wants

11:13

to hold that not only is abortion

11:15

not protected but fetuses

11:18

our people and therefore entire

11:20

northern to constitutional protection as

11:23

themselves other than that though the

11:25

much the same opinion

11:27

not to spell it out too much but

11:30

his fetuses or persons for the purpose

11:32

of the fourteenth amendment

11:34

in their life rent is

11:36

protected by the due process clause

11:38

which would constitutionally

11:40

forbid horse race riots

11:43

sept maybe in a few rare cases

11:45

where the mother's life and health or balanced

11:47

against athena life so

11:50

like what he's doing they're sick printing the

11:53

radical yeah that's zoc

11:55

occurrences and i think we have to start

11:58

we're just as brett kavanaugh yeah

12:00

i've be gay

12:02

then swing and or at least he seems

12:04

he comes and swing and racism is

12:07

doing this thing throughout his conference

12:09

where he's not really saying anything

12:11

new he's rehashing some

12:13

of the constitutional point from constitutional leaders

12:15

majority but also seen easy

12:18

for ya think you

12:21

from polishing up the majority opinions

12:24

yeah and like making it a

12:26

little bit more clear and maybe even

12:28

like a narrowing it narrowing

12:30

it right but but he's not so

12:33

let give an example here is sort of along

12:35

quote a come from a couple different places

12:37

but he's just going on and on like

12:39

this so he says quote the issue

12:41

before this court is not policy

12:43

or morality of abortion issue

12:46

before this court is what the constitution

12:48

says about abortion the constitution

12:50

does not take sides the issue of abortion

12:53

the text of the constitution does not refer

12:55

to or encompass abortion the

12:57

constitution is neither pro life nor pro

12:59

choice

13:00

the constitution is neutral sister

13:04

literally i just like undergrad

13:06

level share of unhook rather

13:08

every logging on to like the most

13:10

basic

13:12

baby's first the legal arguments

13:14

here right which is like hey

13:16

we're not saying whether abortion is bad

13:18

we're we're just saying leave it up to the states

13:20

let the states decides he's not that

13:22

there's more

13:23

because the constitution is neutral

13:25

on the issue of abortion this court

13:27

also must be scrupulously neutral

13:30

the court you're not possess the authority to declare

13:32

constitutional right to abortion or

13:34

to declare a constitutional prohibition

13:36

of abortions shut down south

13:39

ah or are you fucking dr

13:41

seuss bryant like the

13:43

one thing he does the right and as concurrence

13:45

that seems to create a little bit of friction

13:47

with oh edo where he's like he's

13:49

basically saying i wouldn't hold that

13:51

there's constitutional prohibition

13:55

on abortion rights were the

13:57

lido alito seems to be saying the opposite

14:00

seems be the only thing that fab and was actually

14:02

saying here affirmatively like

14:04

the only new information were getting the

14:06

right

14:07

it's a bit yeah exactly and think he

14:09

thinks it's narrowing he also says

14:12

quotes to be clear the court's decision

14:14

today does not outlaw abortion

14:16

throughout the united

14:17

the easiest writing for the media right

14:20

no lawyer would think that that's what's happening

14:22

right we know that from the majority you fucking

14:24

clown like would get that but also

14:26

this is like transition into the part of the concurrence

14:29

were cavanaugh talks about the

14:31

democratic process and how this

14:33

decision is now left to the people

14:35

through their elected representatives

14:38

race but it's this is disgusting

14:40

like idealizing of the processes

14:42

and institutions that we have that

14:44

in reality are also broke and

14:46

right you're talking about state legislators

14:49

and state constitutional amendments

14:51

like that doesn't happen anymore

14:53

right mean you've allowed for gerrymandering

14:55

and be arriving in a voting rights

14:57

and then you're like well you can always try those elections

15:00

yemen always democracy

15:02

for what you want yeah this what they say when

15:04

they're like stripping away a constitutional right

15:06

right as if they they talk about like returning

15:08

it to states and the majority does this to

15:11

where they say you know we are returning the issue to

15:14

your elected representatives as

15:16

if by taking the legal

15:18

protection away what they're actually doing

15:20

is like bestowing you the gift of democracy

15:23

is yes exactly it's just

15:25

so fucking transparent it's like out oh thanks

15:27

like to thank you for putting our rights

15:29

that we previously had protected up for a vote

15:32

threats

15:34

like you don't ever have to hand

15:36

it to brett kavanaugh right right he's

15:38

a piece of shit and this isn't

15:40

a good concurrence in any sort

15:43

is right any sort out at us

15:45

but i will say this we

15:47

do talk about how when the justices

15:50

right there often signaling

15:52

to lower courts into activists about

15:54

what cases they want them to bring to bring cases

15:56

they shouldn't and arguments they're open to

15:59

and in that sense i think there's

16:02

i wouldn't say the reason for optimism

16:04

from this but there's something to

16:06

at least like feel

16:10

like okay do you

16:12

know cavanaugh is is howling

16:15

like the legal movement appear you know like

16:18

a like this is

16:20

the line like we've we've we've handed

16:22

you this victory but like he

16:24

now you gotta fucking calm down and move on to

16:26

others x i wouldn't say

16:28

that means he's desailly going to

16:30

uphold like a federal codification

16:33

of roe v wade i add another that's another

16:35

given based on this the

16:38

you know the very least he least

16:40

he sort of saying i

16:42

am with roberts here on anything further

16:45

bomb at least for the time being then

16:47

you get that thomas conference

16:51

the specific the

16:53

that i was convinced herself phyllis

16:55

us that zoc about it with such a

16:58

sense known as goods sir thomas's

17:00

incurred says located

17:03

know this whole substantive due process thing

17:05

that that peter described above the idea

17:07

that the liberty protected by the

17:09

fourteenth amendment is as

17:11

sort of a very broad

17:14

liberty right it's liberty in very broad

17:16

sense that includes like some

17:18

substantive rights a ,

17:21

rights he says that's garbage right

17:24

says we should throw that all out

17:26

and that means all the attendant rights

17:29

that are underneath

17:31

that that have come from that

17:34

conception the fourteenth amendment in that means

17:36

the right to contraception the right

17:38

for gay couples to get married the

17:41

a right to engage

17:43

in consensual sex sex

17:46

with the partner of your choice in

17:48

the manner of your choice right

17:50

like both things are on the

17:52

chopping block absolutely

17:54

if

17:55

he explicitly sites lawrence oberg

17:57

a cell and griswold as as these cases

17:59

that that should be overturned he

18:01

says that straight up

18:03

the griswold sort of like the headliner

18:05

because that's the the

18:07

one that says like you have the right to

18:09

contraception the which

18:11

obviously would be

18:14

sort of remarkably

18:16

revolutionary even beyond

18:18

what they're doing now to start

18:21

restricting access to contraception

18:23

right like that is that

18:25

is real medieval shit that

18:28

being said i think there's a degree to

18:30

which lawrence be texas

18:33

isn't was scarier one that

18:35

was kids it overturned of law

18:37

outlawing sodomy right

18:40

which was you

18:43

know targeted at the

18:45

lgbt to community

18:47

obviously that like if

18:49

the state can regulate like what

18:52

goes on in your bedroom between

18:54

consensual partners like

18:57

it's not just gave people right who

19:00

are in risk their mean

19:02

they did outlaw cheating

19:04

on your wife like literally

19:06

infidelity could be can be out

19:09

what i feel like republicans won't do that mmm

19:13

any sex before marriage like really literally

19:16

like they could do that there's no limit

19:19

and so yeah then

19:21

of course oh burger fell is the most recent

19:23

and i think i want to the

19:25

best recent decisions from supreme court

19:27

that said gay people have the right to get married or is

19:29

the sort a crown jewel of

19:31

jewel of civil rights movement right

19:34

and you the thomas current is interesting because

19:36

in leaders opinion he sort like look

19:39

we're not saying anything about griswold

19:42

lawrence and oberg

19:44

of foul and and thomas companies

19:46

like were going overturn grids world

19:48

where do you

19:50

know her in burger about burger about

19:52

it's a completely different energy

19:56

like assertive putting a stake the ground same

19:58

like i'm i'm ready of i can go you

20:00

know and i think we know that indo is to

20:02

to the degree that alito put any tempering

20:05

language tempering the majority the majority

20:07

almost certainly to get cavanaugh

20:10

and or maybe coney barrett on board

20:12

right yep once i got something that

20:14

thomas' at the very end of is pending

20:17

the says substantive due process

20:20

is often wielded to disastrous

20:22

ends and he

20:24

says for instance the

20:26

dred scott be sanford the

20:29

court invoked a species of substantive

20:31

due process to announce that congress was

20:33

powerless to emancipate sleeps

20:36

brought into the federal territories and

20:38

so i don't know what it

20:40

has to be spelled out but dred scott

20:43

be sanford's for meeting

20:45

fifty seven widely

20:47

considered case that precipitated

20:50

the civil war substantive

20:52

due process the legal

20:54

theory that relates to fourteenth amendment

20:57

which is passed

20:58

after the civil yeah

21:03

so wouldn't discuss as discuss as of substantive

21:05

due process assist assist

21:08

assist headsets

21:11

and his other fifteenth the is that there

21:13

since other men who'd rather there fifth amendment as who'd due process

21:15

clause but it's

21:17

the liberty and the due process cause is not

21:19

at issue rent in dreads god

21:22

it's property it's that

21:24

sleeves are probably really privacy rights

21:26

the that's property rights this

21:28

is nonsense it's absolute

21:30

nonsense the call that species of

21:33

a substantive due process and

21:36

it's also really rich coming from

21:38

clarence thomas because he's the guy

21:40

who's like sort of put his flag

21:42

down this term as like that

21:45

dred scott guy and has

21:47

cited it approvingly

21:50

like the place

21:52

including the day before

21:54

this opinion came out a series simeon

21:56

they came up a day before this debate is it

21:58

was obvious that what

22:00

the doing was reading dred scott to

22:02

make this argument right yeah be

22:04

like pro abortion people are doing a

22:06

dred scott and i'm gonna make the case that's

22:08

right but then he saw bunch stuff actually kind

22:10

of liked and was like i'm in the site this in other cases

22:12

this guess that roger taney make

22:14

some good points theorists is good

22:16

voice and

22:19

, do they get the end he spends the opinion

22:21

talk about us of as if you processes allows judges

22:23

to enact their policy preferences

22:25

but he gives the game away the end and

22:28

pretty offenses passage where

22:30

he compares the

22:32

effects of dred scott which was the civil

22:35

war two the effects

22:37

of roe v wade which was i

22:39

sixty three million abortions have been performed

22:43

literally saying a

22:45

woman having abortion is comparable

22:48

to death and destruction

22:50

wrought by wrought by fuck

22:53

that guy says it's a fake like

22:55

with all all my chest fuck

22:58

him but clearly it's like this

23:00

is guy he's anti abortion zealot right

23:02

in and but do

23:04

like dred scott for one last reason which is that

23:06

you know a congress did in response

23:08

drug test dred scott as they fucking ignored

23:10

it they told us supreme court to

23:12

eat shit shit then after

23:15

the civil war they expanded the court to

23:18

a you know marginalize

23:20

the you know that was in the majority infrared

23:22

scum and i think that's good lesson

23:24

since his ass for the left to

23:26

take yeah yeah yeah said point michael

23:28

the last thing we should mention about com

23:31

as as concurrence is that there

23:34

is case

23:35

a substantive due process case suspiciously

23:38

omitted from his list of cases we should overturn

23:40

citizens in the loving v

23:42

virginia wait at held

23:45

that's an interracial

23:47

marriage is protected

23:49

and legal under the constitution now

23:52

loving is not just predicated

23:54

on a substantive due process is it's also

23:57

an equal protection case but the

24:00

the burger felt that say yes

24:02

yeah exactly so it's unclear

24:04

why clarence thomas would leave off

24:07

if i hadn't edited

24:11

i would say it's because he loves didn't harm as

24:15

any , yeah

24:17

offered me a

24:20

peasant love cats will love is you know app

24:22

assists i want overturned the decision

24:25

that means

24:25

after marriage legal yeah that's

24:27

all for you baby spend my promise

24:29

you baby

24:32

i do big also that that so sort the

24:34

poverty herbs like what in

24:36

impoverished reading of the fourteenth amendment is

24:38

to try like protection and due process

24:40

and sweaty silos things yeah and

24:42

not part of like a joint exactly

24:45

promise like

24:47

liberty and equality to freed slaves

24:49

and to every person

24:52

right doesn't protect citizens protect citizens persons

24:54

in this country right the

24:57

critical it's anti intellectual

24:59

it's yeah i just i just fucking kick

25:01

it's like so much that

25:04

garbage like this whole the so opinion

25:06

is garbage we talk about john roberts

25:08

is concurrence john roberts comparison

25:10

judgment only meaning he would uphold

25:13

the law banning abortions after fifteen weeks

25:15

but would not overturn roe

25:18

the

25:19

most notable thing about this is just how

25:21

and insignificant they concurrence is

25:23

yeah he clearly road it

25:25

hoping to peel off one the conservative

25:27

votes and therefore save row

25:29

itself but

25:31

he failed so you just have meandering

25:34

concurrence that accomplishes nothing the

25:37

ones powerful consensus builder who

25:39

control the supreme court now

25:41

reduced to begging for a single vote

25:43

in most consequential case of

25:45

his career spent

25:47

his whole tenure like refining

25:50

the art putting rhetorical

25:52

mask on conservative politics

25:54

by just when he perfect said his colleagues

25:57

decide the don't need masks

26:01

i'm sure there's like are roughly parallel greek tragedy

26:04

no costumes for halloween this year

26:06

where does trick or treating baby to

26:08

, the fucking candy think that that's right there's

26:12

something about like how the liberal establishment

26:14

sort of loves john roberts in

26:17

a in very real sense and

26:19

i think this sort of illustrates like the

26:22

i want to see poverty again specific

26:24

suffered the but like tell us

26:26

follow yeah

26:28

emptiness how hello view

26:31

of the court is right like the the liberal

26:33

ideals of like okay even

26:35

when conservatives control the court it's still like

26:38

a court of laws and we got

26:40

to respect the institution or whatever like

26:43

that's what john roberts

26:45

is in lot of sense here and

26:47

look at look at the clown linear

26:50

yes nobody gives

26:52

a shit conservative activist don't give a

26:54

shit conservative politicians don't give shit

26:56

so his fellow concert is the court don't give shit

26:59

and certainly no liberals

27:01

right now are giving him any props nobody

27:04

cares it's a fucking stupid

27:07

way to think about power in the court grand

27:10

together since the descent

27:12

is jointly authored the

27:14

liberals there's no single author which

27:17

is rare and signals that they

27:19

are attempting to make

27:21

a statement and speak in a powerful

27:23

unified voice some

27:26

some bullshit like that

27:28

yeah i'm not sure why but i

27:30

kind of expected the dissenters

27:33

good like right that it's for

27:35

small i think that it says

27:37

lot of important things i think that it's

27:39

properly sort of contends with the magnitude

27:42

of d then to overturn roe his

27:44

wade money goes through some really

27:46

good consequences of this decision

27:49

right some sort of inevitabilities that now

27:51

the country legally and otherwise has to contend

27:53

with but with also for some reason

27:55

expected them to write separately

27:58

in my head it seems more

28:00

forceful for the three of them to properly

28:02

and then maybe even have like a joint

28:05

the said you you know i sort

28:07

of that the

28:08

unified friend to presentation of unified

28:10

front but it also maybe it's just

28:13

like a sort of grasping at straws and

28:15

you want dislike perfectly well articulated

28:17

forceful really strong response

28:20

to this horrific decision but

28:23

it's just the one descent it

28:25

is three different descents combined into one

28:27

right yeah they can tell her yeah you

28:29

can be like this is where kagan starts

28:31

yes it really that is like it's not like

28:33

they collaborated they're like out i'll

28:35

do this point you do this point do this the yeah they

28:37

wrote this is and like we write the podcast ssssss

28:43

it's really up with ideas get

28:45

him out the

28:50

i would i do like about descent is

28:52

the way they frame the right

28:54

that is supposed to be protected by

28:56

the constitution the right to abortion

28:58

flows from dot so

29:00

they say that the constitution

29:03

is designed to protect quotes autonomous

29:05

decision making over the most personal

29:07

of life decisions and quo so

29:10

you know here they're responding to

29:12

a widow in majority saying

29:14

that the right to an abortion

29:17

specifically as unenumerated in

29:19

constitution the descent i think responds

29:21

really well to that and said look we're

29:23

not saying right to an abortion his

29:25

enumerated in the constitution we

29:27

the the same tax you fuck an ass holes

29:29

late it when we know that what we're

29:31

saying is the constitution protects stuff

29:34

obviously that is beyond what is enumerated

29:37

here and based on the constitution

29:39

and what it does protect in an explicit

29:41

ways other rights flow from

29:43

that right and that includes

29:45

the ability of people on

29:47

their own in free society to

29:50

make the most important of life decision

29:53

on their own without government intrusion

29:55

think descents really articulate

29:57

sort of those equality interest

30:00

as well as substantive due process interest

30:03

in an expensive way and can next

30:05

it's to the reality

30:07

of life and those in the import

30:09

and magnitude of those decisions in the

30:11

life of pregnant people

30:13

what they do very well is

30:15

lay out the actual material impact

30:18

of the decision on that people

30:20

expressly saying that it strips them of

30:22

agency and forces them carry out the will

30:25

of the state at great expense to

30:27

them and their families they say that it

30:29

does damage to the status of

30:31

women in as free and equal citizens

30:34

that that was most important and powerful

30:36

part of the descent they also think

30:38

do a pretty good job the

30:40

defending the right like you were

30:42

saying really like making a case for

30:44

row yeah which i was afraid they were

30:46

not going to do and

30:48

instead focus on story to say sis

30:51

the idea that the court needs to respect

30:53

precedents me and i don't think

30:55

that they did at the of the day although the

30:57

weakest part of the descent is the

30:59

part that focuses on sorry this isis

31:01

and all the ugly says like the

31:04

majority is making illegal error

31:06

by ignoring established precedent

31:10

you know it's i guess if i'd

31:12

argument to mention but it's empty formalism

31:14

at the end the day and it feels like half an argument

31:16

right like what you wanna do is make the full throated

31:19

defense of the right not

31:21

have like the fact that we had decision

31:23

that said this fifty years ago you

31:26

, persuaded by ah sorry

31:28

to say says is latin for applicable

31:32

basis yes fighting to blackstone

31:34

bravo of sophisticated of the descent

31:37

dragged on for long enough as like come on

31:39

like just vs that's what let's wrap it

31:41

up here at the almost certainly

31:43

written by elena kagan oh yes it's this

31:46

is it felt very kagan a it think but it

31:48

also feel so weak coming after

31:50

the porsche net is talking about like rights

31:53

being stripped from women in like it there

31:55

quality being diminished

31:57

it and pregnant people suffering

31:59

these consequence there's an and

32:01

then you go into like and it violates

32:03

the rules they're mean offending

32:05

cases and afraid

32:07

, i'll see the

32:09

thing that liked

32:11

the best about the descent and

32:13

i don't think this is quite rehashing what peter

32:15

me in and said was that

32:18

the weight framed row as

32:20

sort of slowing from

32:24

women's elevation

32:26

to equal status

32:29

under the wow that ,

32:31

know women were free and equal

32:33

citizens in the eighteen

32:35

sixties or even in nineteen twenties

32:37

and it is right around

32:39

the time that they are becoming

32:42

oh agents you know their

32:45

own agency to make their own decisions

32:47

in the world or ,

32:49

the workforce attend you know

32:51

higher education that we see these

32:54

other writes about contraception

32:56

and abortion the ability to control

32:58

their body body they want to have

33:00

family you know emerging

33:02

in that makes sense it's all of piece

33:04

in and so this ,

33:07

decision isn't just about like

33:11

okay well now it's up to the states to

33:13

decide whether women can have an abortion

33:15

this decision is about making

33:19

women second class citizens

33:23

the injury it's like debate is like

33:26

saying that all those things where a mistake

33:29

right

33:29

exactly yeah i found out like

33:31

really powerful as that they argue that really well

33:33

yeah i think far as descends

33:35

from the lids go this is one

33:37

of them better efforts there they

33:40

feel like good time to take break okay

33:44

and we're back okay

33:47

so let's talk about some of the responses

33:51

to this news the

33:53

democratic party which

33:55

again if you're not familiar they are one of

33:57

the two parties

34:01

the sensibly in

34:03

our country system now

34:06

because of week the week was

34:08

basically two months ago the

34:11

damn had lot of time the prep

34:13

their pr response we

34:15

had why was so good i think

34:19

, think it assist

34:21

assist so

34:26

we basically get so bunch of like

34:28

wow this is sad what

34:30

you should do donate to my care for

34:33

a vote for us and donate democrats

34:36

and maybe we'll win elections win the future

34:38

and that's basically it right yeah

34:40

and maybe and that's you

34:41

there will protect abortion rate we

34:43

didn't do it for you this time but right maybe

34:46

next time guys yes it's

34:48

envision a world where democrats are

34:50

even more in control of the government

34:52

i wouldn't that be better

34:54

and you're supposed to say yes so biden

34:57

gibbs like know pretty generic steam and was like

34:59

guess fine in

35:02

some respects but just sort of like

35:05

lacking any plan

35:07

right lacking any sort of course

35:09

that he was going to take was more just like a

35:11

rhetorical statement saying

35:14

i believe this is bad sorry

35:17

vote for us yeah that

35:20

was it pelosi does the

35:22

same thing except she also read

35:24

a poem own snacks you read poem

35:26

out ethicists

35:29

assists house

35:31

democrats sang god bless america

35:33

on capitol steps flowers you consider

35:36

the protesters in the background and

35:38

see like this friggin

35:40

capitol police or whoever marching

35:43

towards the protests he'll

35:45

make certain get outta here so i will say

35:48

the

35:49

the god bless america this isn't defensive

35:51

them by the way but that was part of their announcement

35:53

that they passed the gun spill yeah

35:56

but they authored

35:58

were aware that road like

36:00

crap that's what i'm saying that seeks

36:03

people even if is what you had

36:05

plans like who's in charge

36:08

the isn't way yeah maybe we shouldn't be

36:10

singing on the capitol steps today maybe

36:13

this isn't the time do that and

36:15

also consider maybe it's never the time

36:17

be singing on the capitol steps that something you

36:19

should consider but yeah

36:22

this moment like how fucking tone

36:24

deaf

36:25

in don't mean that in that they couldn't carry a to

36:28

assess assess

36:31

assess as a

36:34

everything's fuck anesthetics liking

36:36

him let me read you this poem like no

36:38

you fucking be this don't need to feel

36:40

something right now a you

36:42

don't need to have like bread to evoke a motion

36:44

out me when you go me into the

36:46

streets in protest maybe part

36:48

of what you're looking for his solidarity right

36:51

i don't need static solidarity

36:54

from my leaders i know action

36:56

right that's what solidarity from

36:58

leaders looks like friend they

37:00

didn't do shit like they didn't say here's

37:03

our plan here's what we're going to

37:05

do in any sort of like affirmative

37:07

sense like they had two months mean

37:10

bit minimum they had two months

37:12

ray yeah so two points

37:14

two points to that which is one to

37:16

the point about aesthetics like

37:19

the back to the singing on capitol steps

37:21

about the bill like i know this is

37:23

derby wait episode but like it's

37:25

worth noting that the only

37:27

two gun restrictions

37:30

in the bill would

37:33

the undoubtedly failed the test

37:36

laid out by the supreme court the

37:38

same day the senate passed the political

37:40

spray like in terms of his

37:42

metics passing a gun law that

37:44

is about to be overturned by the supreme

37:46

court is pretty much the

37:48

sake of aesthetics and then singing

37:51

on the capitol steps congratulate yourself

37:53

or passing that that law is

37:55

like layers owes

37:58

of impotence layered of of the

38:00

aesthetics yeah that

38:02

incident also say like biden

38:04

did in his speech

38:05

say that like local codified

38:07

road and he did say that he's gonna

38:09

do some stuff with the executive it's

38:12

good that biden said that but like in terms

38:14

of like how disorganized the party is

38:17

like seven packs

38:19

including like the dscc

38:21

right there democratic senatorial

38:24

campaign committee and think the congressional

38:26

campaign committee the governors and sits

38:29

they'll release statement for bidens

38:31

speech where they didn't

38:34

commit to that right like the

38:36

party had months

38:39

i mean really party had years because

38:41

anybody who wasn't in ny and you this

38:43

is coming the second you know

38:45

coney barrett got can drag race but

38:47

they have months after the leaked opinion

38:50

to get on the same page right

38:52

and they were not the and

38:54

i think it's worth mentioning fiber

38:57

and statement and here as well

38:59

to that point days fucking

39:01

majority whip in house

39:03

majority whip that is like

39:06

the number two or number three most senior

39:09

position in the house of representatives

39:12

the said the club the

39:15

little anti climactic i

39:17

think we all expected this

39:22

are you fucking kidding me dude right

39:25

so weird because it's like where's your aesthetic

39:28

their right like you're not even mustering

39:31

an emotional

39:32

you've doing the performance right that like

39:34

policies doing

39:35

yeah you're not even doing the lake

39:37

circus act

39:39

pretending that you fucking care right

39:41

right you can't even for claim pretending that

39:43

you have some real stake in this

39:46

the either are fucking leaders someone reading

39:48

a poem and some guy being like

39:50

yes well we knew with com didn't we

39:52

fuck off like that it

39:54

right yeah right look like

39:57

nancy pelosi was majority whip in

39:59

two thousand to and took over as to you

40:01

know leader i think in two thousand and four

40:04

in the house cliburn steny

40:06

hoyer they've been leaders in the house

40:09

for pretty much just as long schumer

40:11

and durbin have been in leadership for

40:13

well over a decade in the senate obviously

40:16

, biden has been leadership in the senate ah

40:19

since you the eighties and

40:21

was the vice president for

40:23

eight years and is now the president's

40:26

these people have been running the party for

40:28

decades literally decades

40:30

this is the party they built if

40:33

it's party that cannot protect

40:35

rove he weighed when controls off

40:37

reelected parts of government

40:39

right that's a failure if you don't

40:41

have the ideological coherence do

40:44

this right now if don't have the party discipline

40:47

to do this right now that's a failure

40:49

if the conservatives kin fucking

40:51

overturn roe v wade one

40:54

of the most important pieces

40:57

of the democratic party's platform

41:00

, whole reason

41:02

for exhilarating while you

41:04

can for the presidency and both houses

41:06

of congress use failed

41:09

as leaders they need to fucking go like

41:12

it's insane it insane habit resigned to

41:14

be honest like in in any parliament you

41:16

would have had snap election snap loss of confidence

41:18

votes and they would be fucking out then

41:21

it's like it's insane

41:23

that they're not it's insane that they're not

41:25

resigning it's insane that nobody's talking about

41:27

it's about it's that like they

41:29

do somehow managed to

41:32

capitalize on this

41:34

decision by protecting

41:36

or new been expanding their majorities congress

41:38

and midterms that they will remain

41:40

in leadership yes it's the same

41:42

people is unacceptable it is there's

41:44

so many people

41:46

doing democratic party apologetics

41:48

right now it makes me fucking sick death

41:50

like so many people defend

41:52

the party establishment by essentially saying

41:54

like will hey would you want them to do

41:57

right what could they actually do with this point that would

41:59

save bore right in

42:01

this country and what you're trying

42:03

to argue implicitly or

42:05

explicitly is that like your anger at

42:07

the democratic party is misdirected

42:09

it's not their faults blame the republicans

42:12

or or blame mansion write something

42:14

like that again in the narrowest sense

42:16

like that part of that may be true like there's

42:19

not much joe biden himself could immediately

42:22

do to combat this ruling but

42:24

if and zoom out you

42:26

see a party that was outflanked on the courts

42:29

over the span of forty years

42:31

the never quite realise what was happening

42:34

and yeah to some degree still does

42:37

right yeah they saw republicans organizing

42:39

around the courts executing a concerted

42:42

plan take control of the judiciary

42:45

they just sat and watched right watch

42:47

mitch mcconnell run circles around them

42:49

supreme court appointments and were unable

42:52

to organize any sort of effective response

42:55

and now with row overturned and

42:57

the court in the process of undoing

42:59

every major progressive achievement

43:02

of the past century all

43:04

the party leaders can do is tell you to vote the next

43:06

election no real plan

43:08

no major no major propose

43:10

legislation that they're like campaigning

43:14

just , that like if you vote hard enough

43:16

maybe something will improve and

43:18

some indeterminate way in

43:20

the future and like just

43:22

don't fucking talk to me about how the real

43:24

problem is mansion and cinema

43:26

or whatever if you're a political

43:28

party the in complete control

43:31

of congress and the white house and

43:33

you cannot compel your caucus to

43:35

take action on maybe single most important

43:37

issue to your base in your have failed party

43:40

your failed party

43:42

period cs get

43:45

dms for years like any talk

43:48

moving the democratic party leftward

43:51

the

43:51

met with this argument that that would put the

43:53

coalition at risk right

43:55

like the party's big tent that

43:57

must take care to appeal

44:00

you moderates and incrementalist

44:02

and institutionalists and

44:04

right this right this that coalition gets you

44:06

you know like an ineffectual

44:09

non ideological blob that

44:12

can i take any material steps the

44:15

defend the rights that it claims

44:17

to care about the most right right

44:19

that's what this strategy has built every

44:21

time they said no to medicare for

44:23

all to police reform

44:26

to student debt relief to cutting

44:28

military budgets it was for this

44:30

so they they could build this world like

44:33

the democratic party as it is currently

44:35

constructed is be ruling

44:37

coalition they've been seeking

44:39

to protect for decades what

44:41

a doing for you and

44:44

it's the people currently in charge who built they

44:47

didn't inherit this

44:49

built this party right yeah this

44:51

is beer party the

44:53

of jealously defended

44:55

their control the party from from all

44:57

comers right like this is

45:00

isn't very much their party

45:02

and so yes this is their failure

45:05

yeah

45:06

maybe republicans ,

45:08

the our sins but not

45:10

exactly pleased with the people show

45:12

up and and just read a poem at

45:14

the fire less expensive

45:17

enough a fixed in

45:19

, that's the best you can offer then i'm

45:22

yeah at an adult fucking need

45:24

you i don't this is

45:29

no turning i think away from

45:32

the failures the party to just

45:34

on the ground what happens now

45:36

that roe v wade has been overturned what's

45:39

gonna happen next what the short term

45:41

long term consequences of this kind

45:43

decision and first of all it's hard

45:45

to say all of that i think that

45:47

this is monumental shift in

45:50

the law it's monumental shift in

45:52

why women in pregnant people

45:54

have been able to rely on for decades

45:57

and sent makes and point that like anybody

45:59

as che bearing age now

46:01

has grown up in time

46:03

where abortion has been

46:06

legal and accessible but

46:08

that's not necessarily true for in

46:10

we talked about this numerous times that's

46:12

not necessarily true for people in

46:15

states where you have already been

46:17

living in post row reality rates

46:19

and this decision as going to make it harder

46:22

i and the pregnant people in

46:24

those states to to access reproductive

46:26

health care he more egregiously

46:29

though

46:29

first let's talk about trigger laws though around

46:32

fifteen seats have trigger laws which were

46:34

laws on the books that said

46:36

that if and when roe v wade was

46:38

overturned and abortion ban would

46:40

come into effect in that

46:43

state so dogs this

46:45

decision immediately triggered abortion bans

46:47

in kentucky louisiana and south dakota

46:49

within hours other laws were triggered

46:52

in missouri arkansas other

46:54

states at the end abortion the

46:56

same day that this decision came down it

46:58

looks like about half the seats in the country

47:00

are poised to be an abortion earth

47:02

or most abortions in the coming days

47:05

and you know even beyond trigger laws

47:07

i've heard i've heard of legal commentators

47:09

and others

47:11

that this decision creates

47:13

have a real legal chaos from

47:17

decades legislating on abortion

47:19

even when bro was good law

47:21

suits you have trigger laws in one sense

47:23

there are also criminal laws that are still

47:25

on the books laws that criminalize abortions

47:28

either by criminalizing the person seeking

47:30

an abortion or criminalizing abortion

47:33

providers the doctors there are

47:35

criminal laws on books in many places

47:37

and it's unclear if those criminal statutes

47:39

are now in effect because roe v wade

47:42

with overturned or not and

47:44

then there have been in addition to trigger

47:46

laws in addition decriminalisation laws

47:48

there have been stance on abortion

47:50

that have been passed to test

47:53

roe versus wade and to test t c rates

47:56

for example let's say texas texas

47:58

has all three of these kinds of laws and oh

48:00

you're now sort of sorting

48:02

through this legal chaos to see what laws

48:04

in place and what's actually going to happen on the ground

48:07

so texas currently has a six

48:09

week ban in place as well

48:11

as the

48:12

terrible as be a law the

48:14

bounty hunter law that allows us

48:16

you know private citizens

48:18

to seek legal action

48:20

against people who are eating

48:23

someone getting an abortion in

48:25

addition to the six week be an ah

48:27

texas also has a trigger law that

48:29

will go into effect in thirty days after

48:31

judgment is the down which would be

48:33

an all abortions except save the

48:35

life of the mother there is no exception

48:37

for rape incest in in the texas

48:40

law so we have six week bad

48:42

we also have a phobia and that supposedly

48:44

is going into effect in thirty days and

48:46

then on top of that we have criminal statutes on

48:48

the books from before rovers is wade was decided

48:51

you know are a are attorney general ken

48:53

paxton said yesterday

48:56

that quote some prosecutors

48:58

may choose to immediately pursue criminal

49:00

prosecutions based on violations

49:02

of texas abortion prohibitions t

49:04

dating world that were never repealed

49:06

by the texas legislature so you

49:08

have i sort

49:10

of

49:12

he added maze of laws that

49:14

all the seats are navigating right now and

49:16

not basically can sound everyone

49:19

in terms of like the status

49:21

of abortion care and legal

49:23

abortion care in every state i'm

49:25

super already have billions in place

49:27

abortion providers have stopped providing

49:29

services are abortion funds

49:32

in many places have stopped taking donations

49:34

while they evaluate their it's legal

49:36

liability while they evaluate their

49:39

legal ability to help

49:41

people access abortion care

49:44

in another sense medication

49:46

abortion is also in question here

49:48

so medication abortion is one

49:50

of ways that you can obtain can abortion it's

49:52

extremely safe you do it at home by

49:54

taking taking of to medications

49:57

so that's one way forward

49:59

for then peep in where abortion is be

50:01

and to an access

50:03

medication abortion or to try to do that

50:06

but if medication abortion is going to be

50:08

be and then that forces many

50:10

of these transactions of finding

50:12

medication abortion of finding the correct

50:15

medication that forces lot of different transition

50:17

to happen on the black or grey market

50:20

you know on line that sort of whom and

50:23

that makes it harder for people to access the

50:25

actual medication that you need to

50:27

know that you're getting the correct medications

50:29

a safe medication and then

50:31

if people are doing this at home and it's

50:33

illegal when they do need

50:36

aftercare when need to go to hospital

50:38

when they need to see a doctor afterwards that

50:41

makes these you note situations

50:43

much less safe because people are

50:45

expecting that they might the

50:47

criminally prosecuted for example rain

50:49

some medication abortion is also like

50:51

a probably the next frontier

50:54

right like merrick garland came out and says

50:56

like yes the states don't have the power

50:58

to ban

51:01

and ft and proved medicaid friend

51:03

and so i think that's gonna be that's

51:05

very big front in

51:07

this in this fight between federal government

51:09

the state governments

51:10

yeah so d o j came out yesterday

51:13

and said look this medication as as d a approved

51:15

for this purpose state governments can't

51:17

say it's that you can't take a medication

51:20

that approved for this purpose in your own

51:22

house rate so yeah that is

51:24

going to be the next legal battle ground other

51:26

legal battlegrounds coming up beyond

51:28

abortion be ends you know more areas

51:31

of chaos how do people access

51:33

miscarriage management care how

51:35

do people access care

51:37

for ectopic pregnancies rates

51:40

the overruling of rover says wade implies

51:43

that other pregnant the

51:45

outcome are going to be criminalized

51:49

punished

51:50

or else rate and is also i think

51:52

a bit of a question around like what there's

51:55

or is not an abortion that threatens

51:57

very certain forms of contraception

51:59

that can there wouldn't have long argued

52:02

are actually aboard fashion right

52:04

right many people have like rightfully said hey

52:07

they're gonna go after griswold and attack the right to

52:09

contraception which is pretty clearly

52:11

correct but necessarily

52:13

need to do that just yet right because they've

52:16

been arguing for years that like plan

52:18

b and certain i you d's

52:21

are actually causing abortions even

52:23

though i think most doctors would say well

52:25

that's not what's actually happening with plan b with doesn't

52:27

end pregnancy rates but rent

52:30

we're talking about be gray area

52:32

created by definition that to allies

52:34

with state legislators might be flexible

52:36

when i think they are they're not to doctors so there's

52:39

fight brewing about what actually is an abortion

52:42

and as an open question of where the court lands on

52:45

that

52:45

bullshit but it's not hard to imagine how

52:47

raf exact preventing the implantation

52:49

of a fertilized embryo can be sexualized

52:53

as abortion

52:55

right exactly especially when you're talking about

52:57

state legislators who are not

52:59

fucking experts on this medical

53:01

field and bodily out on on

53:03

body anatomy

53:05

actually dumber than your average house cat

53:07

so that's the right yeah that's

53:09

it

53:10

louisiana has a bill

53:12

in the works about banning certain

53:14

types contraception missouri

53:17

said that they were going to pass to pass

53:20

other states have said this to pass lot

53:22

to be and travel to other states

53:24

to seek an abortion just

53:26

the scope of criminalization and legal

53:28

liability isn't really unclear

53:31

at this moment you know are your

53:33

the drivers your doctor's your nurses

53:36

pregnant people their family members abortion

53:38

funds we don't know right

53:40

now based on what state

53:42

people are in white the

53:44

status of abortion

53:46

care really

53:47

in a lot of players i think i've

53:49

mentioned before podcast but at

53:51

something i do feel very confident about is

53:54

that them sir you travel ban won't stand

53:56

up to legal scrutiny

53:58

even with discord

54:00

that editing the cavanaugh sad right yeah he

54:02

said that he believed that then

54:05

on

54:06

people traveling to other states to get abortions

54:08

were violating the right to travel between

54:11

yeah states yeah i already thought

54:13

that would be case and think kapinos concurrence

54:15

to sort of confirm that for me that

54:17

they don't have five votes for them

54:19

go confusion and legal chaos aside

54:22

you know what should be the bottom line here

54:24

is that this decision ally seats

54:26

to coerce people into

54:29

mandated childbirth into force

54:31

i didn't seem right that is going

54:33

to the two people died us there are

54:35

the month i read new york times this morning

54:38

that overruling roe versus

54:40

wade may only

54:42

cause a drop in abortions of

54:44

thirteen percent but it

54:46

will be higher among

54:48

minority women and poor women for

54:50

sure who already don't have access

54:53

to competent abortion

54:55

healthcare it's going

54:57

to make things worse basin

54:59

where you live geographically where

55:01

years what your class status is

55:03

and erase yeah ,

55:06

know i think there's real point that

55:08

you know that's those numbers aren't gonna hold

55:10

true across demographics but

55:12

then also want to point out that as we

55:14

said like this impacts lot

55:16

of other stuff i b s topic

55:18

pregnancies etc but that

55:20

also means that like yellow it

55:23

may be easier for wealthy white

55:25

women to get abortions they can

55:27

travel but also like

55:29

you know they do have a miscarriage that doesn't

55:31

help them avoid suspicion that site

55:34

that they did something because that miscarriage

55:36

ray that they dare miscarriage can still be

55:38

criminalized i'm

55:40

a and so like this

55:42

affects everyone it really

55:44

it really does it'll fall off the hardest

55:47

on a poor people and

55:49

minorities because just about every oppressive

55:51

law and country that's hardest

55:53

on poor people and minorities right

55:56

but we need solidarity now in

55:58

general but it is very because

56:00

it does it affects everyone it's

56:03

dispiriting , gonna lie i try

56:05

to be try to be angry

56:07

when and or optimistic on

56:09

the podcast but i am i'm feeling a little

56:11

feet a today

56:14

you're you're resident optimists fisher school

56:18

, i was so will say

56:20

that like i've been very critical

56:22

of democrats in their inability to articulate

56:25

the

56:25

plan to face down supreme court which i

56:27

think is ultimately necessary to protect this

56:29

rate in many other rights they're

56:32

saying they'll pass they'll pass to codify

56:34

ruby wade if they do

56:36

the cabinet concurrence the

56:40

some reason to believe maybe he'll go along

56:42

with it like maybe not you know

56:44

the want to get into jurisprudential

56:47

reads but just because the constitution

56:50

is silent on abortion doesn't mean that congress

56:52

has the power to regulate abortion

56:55

because it's because congress of enumerated powers

56:59

there's no guarantees there but but maybe

57:02

know maybe maybe in a me

57:04

intermediate term that

57:07

will be in us farm in the long

57:09

term it's not fair but maybe and

57:11

that's within reach i'm gonna gonna

57:13

record disagreeing i mean it's it's is arguably

57:15

theoretical because in arena passed the law but

57:18

so people are like aware what the argument

57:21

would be congress it probably

57:24

the law under the commerce authority

57:27

the conservatives ebird already

57:29

have narrow view of the commerce clause

57:31

and i wouldn't be surprised if they say

57:34

no

57:34

abortion regulations on commerce they

57:37

might try under the fourteenth amid the as they might

57:39

they might i just want to get on the right side of history

57:41

here because optimism never once

57:43

yes assess their that saying it'll definitely

57:46

stand up i'm just saying maybe

57:48

that

57:48

doesn't necessarily mean optimism i

57:51

think like miriam cada says hope is

57:53

discipline and it

57:55

means that we have a duty

57:57

to fight and we have duty to win the

58:00

the somewhat brett kavanaugh says that inventory

58:02

the

58:02

something like a little surreal about

58:05

all of this cause if you're a lefty

58:07

court watcher the

58:09

overturning a row was always like

58:11

a bogeyman right lurking in the distance

58:14

like it's almost symbolic as a symbol

58:16

of how bad things could get then

58:19

it happens and you have to accept that it's not symbolic

58:21

that it's not reality and it's not an endpoint

58:24

it's just part of the process that

58:26

ascendant reactionary movements

58:29

that , our civil rights

58:31

i think that can be frightening and

58:34

we for build podcast around

58:36

the at what was when we started

58:39

maybe novel idea that the supreme

58:41

court sucks that

58:43

it is not good that good that is an ideological

58:47

and since we've been sort of

58:49

obviously proven right i

58:52

think would be easy to be self satisfied

58:55

and yet satisfied feel i feel mostly

58:57

hollow about it about it weird

58:59

and and depressing but

59:01

i will say you

59:03

know we've carved out a little niche i guess as the

59:05

most cynical

59:07

the supreme court podcast out there and

59:09

times that led to criticism

59:12

that were on serious some

59:14

way the so called serious

59:16

people

59:17

the scholars who get columns in

59:19

washington post and the wall street journal

59:22

they spent the last five years saying this is unlikely

59:24

to happen right neal katyal

59:27

continue to be one of the most

59:30

the

59:30

loved liberal media lawyer is

59:32

not to mention highly paid lawyers and

59:34

them that's right he introduced gore's such

59:37

as confirmation hearing

59:38

and wrote about how liberals should welcome

59:40

him to the court

59:42

like knew where the serious people really

59:44

right the failure

59:46

of the legal media

59:49

and broader political media

59:51

to cover court for what it is

59:54

is part of what got us here the

59:56

it's always been a little bit his

59:59

tongue in cheek joke

1:00:00

make that like yeah like three idiot

1:00:02

said to make podcast to discuss

1:00:04

describe what's going on at the core and yes but

1:00:06

it's true it's fucking pathetic that the

1:00:09

mainstream media coverage if

1:00:11

you would followed it the past decade

1:00:14

this all would have caught you off guard this term

1:00:16

would have caught you off guard remember a year ago

1:00:19

all the media coverage with about three three

1:00:21

three court and how roberts was in

1:00:23

control and the court was moderates

1:00:26

ah all that shit was wrong

1:00:28

all that shit was just the

1:00:30

media getting duped by that by

1:00:32

a fucking obvious head fake

1:00:35

it definitely weird way to i to do this

1:00:37

but i'm i donated

1:00:39

to and signed up to volunteer

1:00:41

for a good new organization here do mexico

1:00:44

or that helps women coming across the

1:00:46

state border from texas get

1:00:49

abortions there are plenty

1:00:51

organizations in a lot

1:00:53

of blue states that do that any see like california

1:00:56

illinois , york the governor socking

1:00:58

about protecting gear and even facilitating

1:01:01

out of state for abortions you

1:01:04

should be looking for

1:01:06

opportunities to donate volunteer

1:01:08

time with those are expected be

1:01:10

vitally important

1:01:19

thanks for joining us for emergency episode

1:01:22

on the , of roe

1:01:24

v wade wade first

1:01:26

part of our series that the end of end

1:01:28

ssssss he well take

1:01:31

care well yourselves we will be

1:01:33

back on tuesday with regular episode and

1:01:36

we recorded before this happened so you can

1:01:39

see if there's any change in

1:01:41

ah and ourselves in health you sense

1:01:43

it can you can

1:01:45

you you hear that? part of of our our souls have of left our of bodies

1:01:47

follow

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