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I'm Roman Mars.

1:05

like many

1:07

teams in the eighties my first job was

1:09

at the mall i was fourteen

1:12

i lied about my age i was a busboy

1:14

in an apple be style restaurant that

1:16

no longer exists on

1:18

saturdays i often worked three shifts

1:20

and row so i witnessed the entire

1:23

circadian rhythm of the mall at

1:25

a clock a clean windows as the senior

1:27

citizens and tracksuits powered

1:30

through the empty halls passing by

1:32

shops with decade store still vote

1:34

out by

1:36

, the families to go for

1:38

and my usual job of clinton glass plates

1:41

involved clean enough piles of food

1:43

spilled on the floor by

1:46

evening the teens arrived they

1:48

couldn't afford the restaurant but

1:50

i could see them and packs congregating

1:53

by the fountain always ready with

1:55

an unkind word some the

2:00

mall felt terrible i

2:02

hated it but despite

2:04

this on days when wasn't working

2:07

i had my mom drop me off

2:09

at the mall kids

2:11

in small towns and suburbs

2:13

play the hand they're dealt and

2:16

being able to walk around

2:18

on your own may be buying

2:20

cassette tape of the smiths live album

2:23

and sam goody is

2:25

, best my

2:36

i'm a very cool team or

2:38

intersects intersects very the nerdy

2:41

t cool adults in

2:43

front of the so alexander land i

2:45

feel like they're a lot of

2:48

teenage mall scenarios that

2:50

i did not participate in like did

2:52

not like me my first bow

2:55

at the mall i did not like stroll

2:57

around a shopping the suspects selling

2:59

off at them up none of that but

3:01

in in the eighties could completely avoid

3:04

a gravitational pull of them all

3:06

alexandra is the other of new book called

3:09

meet me by the fountain

3:10

i think part of a whole argument of this

3:12

book is really that people

3:14

are social creatures and the the mall

3:17

had to be created because

3:19

the suburbs didn't really i

3:22

initially like think about space for

3:24

people to come together

3:26

even though we're past the heyday of the mall alexander

3:28

says we haven't seen the death

3:30

of the mall even after two a half years

3:32

of global pandemic i think

3:34

the people are people and they're

3:36

gonna wanna like go back out and get together

3:39

again i think we've seen that

3:41

in like the tremendous use

3:43

of parks during the pandemic and

3:45

when we can safely gather indoors

3:48

a people are gonna be excited to do

3:50

that because who wants to go to

3:52

park in december we're

3:54

gonna talk about how the mall became a ubiquitous

3:56

part of american culture and what's happening

3:59

today as all across the country

4:01

start to disappear

4:05

let's get

4:07

down to some basics what is a more what

4:10

makes something a mall versus

4:12

other shopping centers that existed

4:15

before or after

4:16

a shopping center is outdoors and

4:18

a mall is in the box that the

4:20

most basic thing shopping

4:23

center is a strip

4:25

mall or a line of stores facing

4:27

the parking lot with some sort of like covering

4:29

over the states in front them were

4:32

is a mall is indoors

4:34

and the earliest malls are basically

4:36

just like to share things troops

4:38

put together so you had

4:40

a department store at each end

4:43

and then two lines of shit facing

4:45

each other and okay covered

4:47

in central ohio state usually

4:49

had fountains and plants and benches

4:51

and other amenities so they were really

4:54

just that super simple i'm

4:56

kind of ic plan in

4:58

this see The

5:00

long is

5:03

where the word Mall from. Comes

5:09

from Mall in London,

5:11

which is a narrow Street where

5:13

they used to play a of bowling

5:16

So, it was this long

5:18

outdoor space people would come

5:20

together to And

5:23

the mall from Mall

5:26

into landscape term

5:28

for kind of long Green So

5:30

then you enclose long narrow

5:33

under a roof, is

5:36

kind mall. So the in is

5:39

also a mall the same even

5:42

we don't think a

5:44

shopping mall. and the mall in washington

5:46

and in the zone

5:47

right replace them with that reflecting pool

5:49

in the lincoln on one side that's

5:51

side that's capital mall but my own yeah

5:54

lincoln is the anchors store of

5:56

the

5:57

actual mom see bases

6:00

the capital more so

6:02

victor grew in his credit as the father of

6:04

father mall what mall what he trying to do

6:06

what would you try to make

6:08

so grueling was in emigres

6:10

from austria fled the nazis

6:12

to the us in the late nineteen

6:14

thirties and he had really

6:16

strong memories of the

6:19

kind of charming streets of

6:21

vienna where they are are cafes

6:23

and young people gathered fountains

6:25

and nurses whole rich outdoor

6:28

life there he came to america

6:30

he initially designed is very glamorous

6:32

stores and manhattan and then he was

6:35

taken up by some departments

6:37

or executives who are like moved to california

6:40

designer department stores though

6:42

he started designing these freestanding

6:44

department stores and he does

6:46

so at penn impressed by the

6:48

landscape around those defenses

6:50

as you could go the store and you

6:52

the park and you could go in and then

6:55

it didn't do anything else like you couldn't

6:57

leave and said cast say there was nowhere

6:59

to meet your friends there was none

7:01

of the kind of fabric as the city

7:04

that he found in european cities though

7:07

in early nineteen forties and grew

7:09

in refunding in new york and flying

7:12

back and forth across the country a lot

7:14

like major major airplane mouth

7:16

and he gets stuck in

7:18

detroit on across country sleep

7:20

because of said and he thinks

7:23

oh okay like i'm not gonna waste

7:25

his time i have on the ground in detroit

7:27

you know it's like he has his friends were

7:29

his life happening in detroit and they said

7:31

oh it's all out in the suburbs surrogates

7:34

driven around the suburbs and he

7:36

finds let his than finding elsa finding

7:38

us that yes they're all these

7:40

new houses and yes they're all these strip

7:42

malls but there's nowhere to go

7:45

on and he thinks that

7:48

he master cells and he's

7:51

in the able to sell jail hudson

7:53

on the idea of building a

7:55

branch department store and

7:57

shopping center in the suburbs i'm

8:00

and over the next several years he does is he

8:02

actually sells them on the idea of buildings

8:05

four of them northland

8:07

southland eastland and westlands

8:09

yeah i've always wondered about that like why do

8:11

so many malls have cardinal directions

8:14

in the name nick no matter what city are and they're all

8:16

like westerfield or southport why

8:18

is that

8:19

the origin story and this is

8:21

one way in which i know

8:23

like the book can be slightly confusing

8:25

because all them all some the same and

8:27

it's like yeah that was hum perfect

8:32

because you know

8:35

everything , your city with

8:37

center point downtown

8:39

downtown these malls wanted to establish

8:41

where they were in relation to that

8:43

center point so if you

8:45

are driving north on the

8:48

and of main highway out of town you would

8:50

encounter north land or north park

8:53

or northfield or north dale

8:55

or one of these other things in a seamless

8:57

south east west so all of them

8:59

are like named after the cardinal points

9:02

so that people know kind of where to find

9:04

them in relation to include

9:08

of the word is gay because

9:10

it's an entry to the city it's land

9:12

because that was open land before

9:15

it's park because they're attaching

9:17

it to park way at least they

9:19

have kind of they a vaguely

9:21

a geographical associations

9:24

the problem really comes that legs i

9:26

grew up going to northgate mall in durham

9:28

north carolina but there's much more

9:30

famous northgate mall in seattle

9:32

that was one of the first malls and

9:35

it's like so you always had to specify in

9:37

a which city are talking

9:39

and if you think there's a certain point where the

9:41

naming convention becomes just

9:44

a meaningless comments and like a that

9:46

the one of the fence your malls

9:49

in downtown san francisco is

9:51

called for westfield don't

9:53

think it's west of anything or

9:55

a field at all maybe

9:57

that's just and maybe you know no

9:59

no field of actually a huge

10:01

mall can

10:02

la mer it's pathetic now owned by

10:04

israeli since but

10:07

westfield may be originally

10:09

named after a westfield

10:11

that was in some town

10:13

the ruined designed these malls and michigan

10:15

and he sold the early mall as

10:18

more of a mixed use hub there

10:20

workshops and apartment stores but

10:22

also post offices

10:24

and doctors' offices how long did

10:26

that idea of mall last

10:29

grown definitely saw the malls

10:31

as having community function and

10:33

that's really explicit in a lot of his writings

10:35

and in the nineteen forties and nineteen fifties and

10:38

wasn't alone and that there other early

10:40

mall developers including james rouses

10:42

who comes back into the story later who

10:44

also built miles ill circa

10:47

nineteen fifty five nineteen fifty six

10:49

that had and communities

10:51

faces they might have searched

10:53

faces they definitely had doctors' offices

10:56

a , of malls also had nurseries

10:59

so the these early malls had

11:01

a lot more community functions built in

11:03

and they were thought of as replacing

11:06

downtown i'm and so

11:08

having these nexus functions

11:11

but what happened was over time

11:13

like by the nineteen sixties

11:15

they're just start to the more and more malls

11:18

and they're not being designed

11:21

and created by these original developers

11:23

and to developers just wanna

11:26

make money and they've also found

11:28

that is the mall has been kind of incorporated

11:31

as an american pastime and

11:33

it turns out you don't need to have need to

11:35

space for your mall to operate

11:37

like community center like it's is

11:39

doing that anyway

11:51

though the

11:52

mall is often blamed

11:54

for killing downtown's but

11:57

is is completely fair like it

11:59

was the more the your reaction

12:01

to filling avoid that was already created

12:03

by downtown's decline or

12:07

the they contribute and someone the

12:09

early mouths were really predicated

12:11

on investment by the department stores

12:13

that the department store owners only made

12:15

an investment after they are already seeing

12:17

a loss of business downtown and the

12:19

families who own these apartments source

12:22

or frequently like major urban

12:24

philanthropist like they were the ones

12:26

who like paid for new shows at the museums

12:28

they were really like power players in

12:31

minneapolis detroit's philadelphia

12:33

and these other cities but

12:36

as the suburbs expanded

12:38

because the houses were built first

12:41

they began to draw this energy

12:43

away from downtown's and initially

12:45

and now it seems foolishly in retrospect

12:48

people thought they women would

12:50

drive back in two downtowns

12:53

to shot during the day either

12:55

driver or take public transportation

12:57

but once women

12:59

and children were kind of ensconced in

13:01

their houses in the suburbs that

13:04

was just impossible like who want

13:06

it to that i'm and the shopping

13:08

options are really limited because they were mostly

13:10

the strip malls that had a supermarket and

13:12

drugstore and made me a kids shoe store but

13:15

they didn't have the kind of full service department

13:17

store that they did down so

13:19

dumb i'm in store owners really wanted

13:21

people to keep going downtown because

13:24

that's where they had put all this time in investment

13:27

that was not an accurate read on human behavior

13:29

so very reluctantly

13:32

department store owners began

13:34

first to build some small freestanding

13:37

stores they called them easily junior stores

13:40

and then grew in kind of came

13:42

up with this way by packaging

13:44

the department store with other stores that

13:46

they could keep like their sense of dignity

13:49

think they really wanted their stores to still be

13:51

glamorous and still be special and

13:53

not just another thing by the highway so

13:56

the grew in idea the indoor shopping mall

13:58

allowed them to keep that glamour

14:00

from downtown and also feed

14:03

off other shopping but move

14:05

out to the suburbs

14:07

so these early moles go up and get

14:09

lot of attention especially as

14:11

one large mall designed by victor grew in

14:13

in a diner minnesota called south l

14:15

center and it's a big media story

14:18

but how are these early malls received

14:20

by the architecture and

14:22

design world at large like how do they

14:24

respond

14:25

the arkady so press and was

14:27

totally wowed by the early

14:29

models in a cell tail and particular

14:32

was treated as this kind of

14:35

second funny when a d amazing

14:37

things is that is that jacobs

14:39

when our to a diner to

14:41

see south sale and wrote this like very

14:44

glowing right out of it in architectural

14:46

forums and if you think about

14:48

our stereotype of jane jacobs she was

14:50

all about the city's you is all about like

14:52

small business but at

14:54

that moment it was really seen

14:57

was an important new

14:59

element important important tool for

15:02

creating urban as i'm creating

15:04

the suburbs the outside

15:06

shopping malls is

15:08

really boring third of the good big grey

15:10

boxes museum from the road that

15:12

all the design thinking goes into the inside

15:15

of them all with things like sounds in

15:17

a trance lion

15:18

i think that's where the

15:21

community ideas this kind of utopian

15:23

community idea of from grew in inception

15:26

of the mall i'm really continues

15:30

the has if you're in space it just

15:32

makes you wanna shuffle along lake

15:34

say as an airport terminal you

15:37

don't wanna stay there for the

15:39

syrian a safe word there's beautiful

15:41

natural light and maybe there's a

15:43

fountain the your kids can throw pennies in

15:45

two or three we there's a bench for

15:47

you can like take little break in between

15:49

going from store to store you're gonna

15:51

stay there longer and so

15:54

even if mall owners stopped

15:56

paying money for architectural features

15:58

on the outside they still spent

16:01

lot of time investing

16:03

in architectural features

16:05

and the upkeep those features on the inside

16:08

there's a little dialogue around maintenance

16:10

related to the mall and think if you

16:12

look at some pictures of

16:14

dead and dying malls like one the first

16:16

things you see is like the plants

16:18

died or they've taken all the plants

16:20

out the planters or you know

16:22

there are none of trash cans anymore and

16:24

so a part of the allure

16:27

of the mall is of this lake

16:29

beautiful and beautiful maintained

16:31

indoor space that you can go to at

16:33

any time and the weather will

16:36

always be perfect and so

16:38

like that's where the money goes and that's

16:40

where i think some of the artistry those

16:42

and and in the title of my book is meet

16:45

me by the sentence because that's also

16:47

how people orient themselves and malls

16:49

fate that like meet me my the blue fan

16:51

made me by the red zone the

16:54

mall can be confusing

16:56

and kind of like jangling place

16:59

but these perpetual architect they're features

17:01

help us orient ourselves

17:12

after the mall is introduced in it's rough

17:14

like begins to replicate didn't then we hit

17:16

the the building boom from all's

17:18

in the seventies and eighties and and

17:20

and then they really begin to change the landscape

17:22

of america can you talk about that time

17:25

and this will rise of the

17:27

giant mall

17:28

early miles allied times are really quite

17:31

simple it's just like that i

17:33

save or a t saber of these save

17:35

with lakes one or two or three department

17:37

stores and the reason you're

17:39

going to the mall is to

17:42

shop to go to the department store and

17:45

to you know maybe get snack

17:47

in the sack bar the food

17:49

court doesn't actually become

17:52

part the mall until the mid nineteen seventies

17:54

and then in the nineteen eighties

17:57

you begin to get the first wave of

17:59

board with mile a people are fine

18:01

of over them all and that's when

18:04

john gertie comes in is ellie

18:06

architect and he's like okay

18:08

how can we get people to want to go

18:10

to the mall again mall again

18:13

will pull in amusement park in the mail

18:15

number and ,

18:17

you put an amusement park in the middle of law

18:20

it gets exponentially

18:24

and did did did mall

18:26

kind of react in this way like another some

18:28

key ones like mall of america that has a

18:31

rollercoaster an aquarium it's of my thoughts

18:33

that

18:34

effect can a ripple out into other malls

18:36

or was it really just were confined to a few

18:38

big

18:40

and neither man in mall is really confined

18:42

to just few times the

18:44

entertainment idea does

18:46

rebel alex and when you get

18:48

more and more ice skating

18:50

rinks and miles you get bigger

18:52

and bigger food courts and

18:55

they get more expressive

18:57

architecture so that like going to this

18:59

food court is kind of and event and

19:01

there are more and more different kinds

19:03

of cuisines that you can sample you

19:05

also get arcades added some

19:08

miles some the offerings

19:10

the offerings get broader and broader

19:12

and sisters square footage gets bigger

19:14

and bigger those malls also

19:17

like are bigger investment for their developers

19:19

so they're trying the poll from a larger

19:21

and larger area so

19:24

where's the original malls are really

19:26

just trying to serve the suburbs

19:28

all around them and make their quadrant

19:30

of the city these new laws

19:32

are generally referred to as super regional

19:35

malls so their mouths of people would

19:37

really traveled to when you

19:39

had to get your prom dress you

19:41

and your friends would like get in minivan

19:44

and go to the mall that was like one or two

19:46

hours away because it had the bigger better

19:48

department stores and you'd spend whole

19:50

day there and and it's just different

19:52

mentality about shopping and and

19:54

it's slightly different relationship

19:56

the amount so there is

19:58

the same islam where

20:00

people right now

20:17

you in the eighties rain this growth

20:19

and and heyday of the visceral culturalism

20:21

aziza of malls i'm there's

20:24

real you know conflict

20:27

about the more as public

20:29

space forces private space to

20:32

talk about why that's

20:34

important and in what was happening

20:36

inside i'm all that with different than what would

20:38

happen if this was a

20:40

shopping district shopping a city

20:42

you can tell from my home all history

20:44

think there's been this desire to

20:46

cast the mall as a

20:48

community space and hands as a public

20:50

space and to pretend least

20:53

for a minute that it's welcoming

20:55

to everybody eats that anyone can go there

20:57

at any time bites as

20:59

the malls become bigger and

21:01

actually started to serve as those

21:03

de sac though public spaces he

21:05

ran up against fact that

21:08

store owners mall owners

21:10

don't really want really the things

21:12

they can have been in public face to happen

21:14

in their mouths and their principal one of

21:16

those is so

21:19

the there to be the whole series

21:21

of court cases basically

21:24

arguing over whether you can

21:26

protest in mall

21:28

and , protests that end

21:30

up serving as the basis for these pieces

21:33

in both like the state and federal

21:35

supreme courts are over a whole

21:38

range of issues like some of them are anti

21:40

war protests some of them are anti for

21:42

protests some of them are union

21:44

protests but in each case

21:47

the mall owner asserts that

21:49

they have they right to object

21:51

to protesters from their property because

21:53

there are not private property they don't have

21:55

to follow free speech rules and

21:57

then you get attorneys arguing

22:00

that if malls are gonna be

22:02

replaced downtown's shouldn't

22:04

they also have

22:06

to operate like downtown's

22:09

and let whoever wants to

22:11

have free speech have free speech and these properties

22:14

one , the earliest cases and nineteen sixty

22:16

eight thurgood marshall those

22:18

are for the us supreme court and argues

22:21

for the majority and loses

22:23

great passage where he basically talks

22:25

about how's the mall has replaced

22:27

and town and was so

22:30

fascinated to find that a

22:32

was thurgood marshall and be that he had really

22:34

articulated the way the malls

22:36

had taken on the public role as early

22:38

as nineteen sixty eight in a

22:40

supreme court opinion opinion

22:42

that decision the court gets more

22:44

more conservative and the

22:47

assertion of free speech rights in malls

22:49

actually gets eaten away until

22:52

it becomes a state issue and now

22:54

is that something that's actually the sided state

22:56

by state most recent

22:58

protests in miles as they came a court case

23:00

was a black lives matter protests

23:03

at the mall of america and

23:05

right before christmas

23:06

during one the busiest shopping weeks of

23:08

the year the mall of america is caught up in

23:10

legal battle with protesters for

23:12

leaders of black last

23:13

interstate they receive letters on friday

23:16

threatening arrests of wednesday's rally takes

23:18

place as planned inside the mall they're

23:20

trying to force us to say something

23:22

i'm that you know

23:24

they don't really have the authority to to do so this is

23:26

definitely not only an attack on black

23:28

lives matter but on everybody's first

23:31

amendment rights and and right to speak

23:33

the protesters like marched

23:35

in chanting and

23:37

all of the screens that

23:39

were installed in mall around

23:42

all of these christmas trees lit

23:44

up with messages of the protesters

23:46

had to leave so it was kind

23:48

of like you're ruining our like

23:50

commercial display for christmas with your protests

23:53

you to think about like why did black

23:55

lives matter protesters choose them all of

23:57

america they chose it because there

23:59

would be the people that make there's no point

24:01

in a protest asks if you're not

24:04

going to have people see you

24:06

enjoy new and have media

24:08

coverage so in place like

24:10

minneapolis in the winter the concentration

24:13

of people were gonna be at the mall and that's

24:15

why they wanted to protest there

24:18

and and think that's really the

24:20

rub of all the court cases like

24:22

a you evacuated your city

24:24

and put all of your commercial development

24:26

in the suburbs you have to leave

24:28

space in the suburbs for things

24:31

to happen that aren't only

24:33

commercially motivated like aren't okay

24:35

with store owners that everybody doesn't agree

24:37

with

24:45

you might noticed that we're past the heyday

24:47

of the mall and with malls across america

24:49

closing what we going to do with

24:51

all that empty space the future

24:53

of mall after this

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27:11

the

27:13

past the heyday of them all now how

27:15

many miles have closed and

27:17

or malls actually dying off or

27:19

like what are numbers like

27:21

at their peak they were approximately

27:23

like two thousand and close miles

27:25

in the u s am i think

27:27

that number went down to about

27:29

fifteen hundred over the

27:31

past ten years and people are

27:34

expecting us to end up like

27:36

after the pandemic probably around

27:38

like eight hundred and close miles

27:41

in the nineteen nineties such as basically

27:43

peat moss there were one hundred

27:45

and forty new models being built per

27:47

year but i in two

27:49

thousand two thousand there were zero

27:51

new models that were built people

27:53

aren't wrong that the mall is dying

27:55

like there is gonna be this huge die

27:58

offs but i don't think the malls going

28:00

away i mean eight hundred is still

28:02

like a lot of malls and

28:05

many of those are really that

28:07

big know t malls and

28:09

in their towns the know like

28:12

in the new york area it's things a

28:14

king of prussia outside

28:16

philadelphia or the knowledge short hills

28:18

in new jersey or of the west chester

28:20

of in yonkers and so

28:22

the richest those are surviving

28:25

it really am were typically

28:28

referred to as class b and c

28:30

miles that might have had

28:32

sears and other department

28:34

stores that have now gone out of business

28:37

that are dying and so those

28:39

are the ones that people

28:42

film like depressing glamour shots

28:44

at and also the ones that are potential

28:47

sites for adaptive

28:49

why would you say is the reason

28:51

for moscow's

28:53

the whole bunch of things you we've

28:55

had this kind of panicky story for

28:57

years that online retail was gonna

28:59

destroy bricks and mortar retail

29:02

it's actually only twenty one percent of

29:04

retail sales even now exhilarated

29:08

because more people were doing more

29:10

internet shopping and you found out

29:12

that out that be great for a lot of things but

29:15

there are still many kinds of shopping

29:17

there really bad or done in person

29:20

and even before the pandemic

29:22

internet shopping like hadn't killed

29:24

off bricks and mortar retail at the rate

29:26

that initial dire predictions

29:29

that it would so that's part

29:31

of it and they're also

29:33

says like larger changes

29:35

in the way we saw a department stores

29:37

are no longer the arbiters of t

29:39

that they used be and more

29:41

people want to shop in

29:43

smaller stores even if those aren't

29:45

necessarily independently owned and

29:48

then there's also just a greater income

29:50

disparities i'm during the rise

29:52

of the malls the american middle class

29:55

was doing well and growing

29:58

and now there is this greatest dirty

30:00

between like the upper middle class

30:02

that so doing great and

30:04

the lower middle and working class

30:07

who have less and less money and people

30:09

in those families are much more likely to shop

30:11

in and big box stores

30:13

and discount stores because they

30:16

don't really have the income for kind

30:18

of middle range stores they used

30:20

to be the bread and butter of the mall

30:22

it's funny because today there lots

30:24

of malls that are now

30:26

home to employment offices

30:29

and game these in a way that superego

30:31

because that's , next use

30:33

idea that was closer to bruins original

30:36

design them all but you right

30:38

and that's usually a bad sign for

30:40

the mom when this happens because they

30:42

probably given dmv cheap rent because

30:44

they're desperate to draw people in so

30:47

people mean says com ironic

30:49

you meet that should be a good thing

30:51

i think having a d of be and other

30:53

public services inside mall would be

30:55

great like think how convenient that would

30:57

be if you have limited time

30:59

on weekend you can get all of these things

31:01

taken care of a and fact

31:03

in the conclusion of my book i talk about

31:05

the malls and some other countries including

31:07

the philippines where many

31:09

of the malls have a lot of public services

31:12

just folded into them as a matter of

31:14

course my , volunteers

31:16

for their friends of durham public library and

31:18

they run used bookstore and

31:20

it was one of the businesses in and

31:22

empty storefront in north

31:24

cape mall in durham before

31:26

closed so get city services

31:29

come in where commercial businesses dont

31:32

want to pay rent anymore

31:34

its hard for malls to recover

31:36

from one of their anchor department

31:38

stores clothing unless something

31:41

else big comes in

31:43

either way for struggling malls to recover their

31:45

formula that than actually works

31:47

the

31:47

miles have been saved at least

31:49

stabilized by and things like

31:52

trampoline parks coming in again

31:54

like that's the entertainment venue

31:56

one the ways that i think miles can survive

31:59

in the future is through a

32:01

smarter and perhaps more distinct

32:04

to , of the mall stores

32:07

are in here i know they treated as kind

32:09

of and over use terms

32:11

like like think for a long

32:13

time malls are getting by on

32:15

that essentially all having the same

32:18

mix of stores and

32:20

restaurants just different price points

32:23

so you kind of the i decide how much

32:25

money you wanted to spend their day in go that

32:27

to but going forward

32:30

it's easy enough to get

32:32

ill inexpensive chain store

32:35

clothing online so

32:37

malls could really distinguish themselves

32:39

by stocking themselves are things

32:42

that are all for families or

32:44

i have couple of examples in the books

32:47

were malls have turned themselves

32:49

essentially into like ethnic

32:51

food and business centres depending

32:53

on like the changing nature of their suburb

32:56

so you have like have latino

32:58

mall outside atlanta

33:00

or i'm a lot of asian

33:03

malls in northern california that

33:05

businesses that are

33:07

familiar to people from other places

33:09

but also that they can't get somewhere else

33:12

and and that which sell things that they can't get

33:14

online

33:15

when most do fail and

33:17

they do close a hum there's

33:19

like thousands and thousands of square feet

33:21

going unused on

33:24

but you know there aren't aren't of most

33:26

eight things that you can put in there after what

33:28

has gone up what happens

33:31

with these dead

33:32

well lot of times they just sit there

33:34

for quite some time because not only

33:36

do they have these many thousands of square feet

33:39

that not lot of entities can deal

33:41

with and but often they're

33:43

owned by multiple and disease and

33:45

so it's not as easy as just

33:47

like one person selling them

33:49

out to

33:50

one other person there

33:52

have been some cases of adaptive

33:54

reuse were and new business or something

33:56

has taken over taken dead mall and what

33:59

is the most that example of that you've seen

34:01

highland

34:02

mile outside austin texas

34:05

has been turned over the past

34:07

decade plus an

34:10

into there

34:12

leadership campus for acing can the the

34:14

college and they

34:17

turned one ,

34:19

the former department stores into like

34:22

this huge like room full of computers

34:24

like works as face face

34:27

they have turned one the other

34:29

department stores into the headquarters

34:31

for an awesome public t v

34:34

with lot of internal a

34:36

studio and recording space and an

34:38

auditorium and the parking

34:40

lot around the mall and some

34:42

of it days it see made me made green

34:44

open spaces sort of like a regular

34:46

college campus an arm

34:49

around the perimeter they're building housing

34:51

some of which can be student housing but

34:53

other of which can just be you know affordable

34:56

rental apartment the

34:57

great if we could we use these dead malls

34:59

and some way like people

35:01

always say that the green as building as building

35:03

that's already built how do you feel

35:05

about it when it comes to reusing

35:08

malls

35:08

i went to see these examples of adapt if

35:10

he is and when people

35:12

talk about adaptive reuse they're often

35:15

thinking about older buildings

35:17

in cities they did this

35:18

wayne malls are other buildings

35:21

i mean like many of them all

35:23

the we're talking about that are failing are

35:25

fifty years old and

35:28

out i say talking to the chancellor

35:30

of us in community college and he

35:32

was saying that lots of people have

35:34

like very poignant family memories

35:37

of things that happened in the food court

35:39

at that mall these

35:41

buildings are just buildings

35:43

in their communities there like

35:45

a they're very conveniently located

35:47

be like everyone knows where

35:50

highland mall is because it's been

35:52

reference points and we

35:54

shouldn't just have throw away

35:56

those memories and throw away

35:59

and that kind of name recognition

36:01

along with like getting rid of

36:03

the tremendous like environmental

36:05

think of the building materials

36:08

so i really see

36:10

the malls as an opportunity

36:12

and i would love for people to get

36:14

more creative about what to do with

36:16

them there's a lot of

36:19

like dead mouse at soccer fields

36:21

which fields think can be very beautiful but

36:23

it also kind of sixers them

36:26

in people's minds as these

36:28

dead and disease and disease think

36:30

kind of like stops the

36:32

mental process that it takes to

36:34

them think of okay like what

36:36

we gonna do with do with and

36:39

i win against against coming

36:41

from design background i just see

36:43

them as an opportunity and a problem

36:45

and like something that could be really

36:47

fun to think about and he

36:49

has something that shouldn't be depressing but it's like

36:51

oh i see there's all this new

36:53

free land in cities like what

36:55

can we do with it

37:00

will this isn't so great i've really

37:03

enjoyed book to it was just so much

37:05

fun to both like learn lot stuff

37:07

and also like have all this information

37:09

slot and to my own sort of like lived

37:11

experience of month i present

37:14

thanks for having me

37:18

alexander lings book is called meet me by

37:20

phone and inside history of them

37:22

off and on about how they

37:24

recommend it over with the back

37:26

of her he will find that someone is written it's

37:29

, architectural page turner is insightful

37:31

witty and smartbooks captures

37:33

everything compelling and confusing about

37:36

the american more roman mars

37:38

go author of the the

37:40

will i that's much believe

37:42

in bespoke suit against ninety

37:45

, invisible was produces week by chris

37:47

brubeck music their director of sound

37:49

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37:51

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37:54

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37:56

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37:58

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38:01

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38:10

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38:12

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38:14

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38:17

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38:22

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