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is 99% Invisible. I'm

2:17

Roman Mars. As

2:21

anyone who has ever been to a White Castle restaurant

2:23

knows, the food is... How

2:26

do I put this? It's never going

2:28

to be considered classic 5-star food, but

2:32

you know what you're getting when you go

2:34

there. Jeremy Brooks has been a die-hard White

2:37

Castle fan ever since going regularly as a

2:39

kid with his dad. It's either something you're

2:41

going to love or you cannot stand. For

2:44

starters, the patties are square. That's kind of

2:46

their thing. With five holes in each patty.

2:49

And they're small too. Two and a

2:51

half inch sliders just big enough to fit in the

2:53

palm of your hand. And since they're

2:55

steamed on a bed of onions, everything

2:58

is infused with this very

3:00

specific onion-esque flavor.

3:03

Plus you get the steamed buns too, so they're nice and

3:05

soft. You can basically just like squish in your hand and

3:07

just shove in your mouth if you want. Like

3:09

the man said, you either love it or you hate it.

3:12

I happen to love it and I still do

3:14

40 plus years later. If

3:17

you've never been to a White Castle

3:19

though, that's not entirely surprising. They're

3:22

not exactly easy to come by. It's

3:24

reporter producer Mackenzie Martin who first

3:26

dug into this story for the

3:28

KCUR Studios podcast of People's History

3:31

of Kansas City. But

3:33

that obscurity is also kind of White

3:35

Castle's thing. They're only in

3:37

the US and your state probably doesn't

3:39

have any. If it does,

3:41

even just making it there can

3:43

sometimes be challenging. Like in

3:46

the 2004 buddy comedy, Harold and Kumar

3:48

go to White Castle. A film in

3:50

which the entire plot revolves around trying

3:52

to find a White Castle. I

4:00

hate to be the bearer of bad news, guys, but... ...Burgerschak,

4:02

they bought this location about four years ago.

4:04

God. Please tell me there's another White Castle

4:06

in town. No. White Castles

4:08

are so scattered that even I, the

4:11

reporter of this story, have never actually

4:13

been to one. Where I

4:15

live, in Kansas City, we haven't had

4:17

a White Castle in decades. Which

4:19

is absolutely crushing to

4:21

superfan Jeremy Brooks. I

4:24

drive by the places where I know those locations used

4:26

to be, and I'll look at the building and just

4:28

let a little client sigh out as I drive. And

4:31

for most people today, that's really all

4:33

White Castle is. A

4:35

semi-obscure, guilty, pleasure, cultural

4:38

punchline. Which, okay,

4:40

fine, it kinda is. But White

4:42

Castle is also so much

4:44

more than that. Because over

4:46

a century ago, White Castle invented

4:49

something that became so important and

4:51

all-encompassing that today it touches pretty

4:53

much every person in America. Sometimes,

4:56

several times a day. Something

4:58

that, in other countries, has almost

5:00

come to define American culture. White

5:04

Castle has the strongest claim to have

5:06

been the first restaurant that is a

5:08

fast food restaurant. That's Adam

5:10

Chandler, a journalist and the author

5:12

of Drive Through Dreams. A

5:14

book about Americans' love affair with fast food. And

5:18

Chandler says that before McDonald's,

5:20

before Burger King, before Combination

5:22

Pizza Hut and Taco Bell,

5:25

there was White Castle. You

5:27

cannot throw a stone in the air

5:30

without hitting a fast food restaurant. But

5:32

what White Castle really did in paving

5:34

the way for all of

5:36

its brethren is it's hard to match. It's

5:39

hard to understand. It's hard to grasp because it

5:42

came from virtually nothing. The

5:45

first chain restaurant in the United States popped

5:47

up in the late 19th century, catering

5:50

to disembarking passengers along the Atchison,

5:52

Topeka, and Santa Fe Railway. But

5:55

it catered to a fancier clientele.

5:58

And it didn't serve food all that fast. For

6:00

that we were stuck with are typical food. Carts

6:03

are on on that and crucially,

6:05

none of these places served anything

6:07

that we moderns would recognize as

6:10

a hamburger. Back then, we had

6:12

kind of a loose confederation of

6:14

places that served hamburger like objects.

6:18

These prado burgers usually involved loosely

6:20

ground beef or a meatball served

6:22

between two slices of bread, but

6:24

that's about it. Was. In

6:26

a bind didn't have the name hamburger in a

6:28

lot of instances. it was just kind of a

6:31

sandwich. No one can say

6:33

for sure exactly when the first properly

6:35

compacted been in case hamburger appeared but

6:38

one of the first step toward the

6:40

modern hamburger also happen to be the

6:42

first step toward fast food. When.

6:45

As well as in goes. Crazy

6:47

about serious academic or break neither confirm nor deny

6:49

us the rest even as dozens of authority over.

6:52

One day, sometime between Nineteen Twelve

6:55

and Nineteen Sixteen, a self described

6:57

ne'er do well and fry cut

6:59

named J. Walter Anderson was repairing

7:01

some meat balls at a diner

7:03

in Wichita, Kansas when according to

7:06

David how again. He was

7:08

fry these meatballs and he got

7:10

frustrated and said dispatch was just

7:12

slapped down as mid bass into

7:14

a paddy. David. As a

7:16

history professor at Saddlebag University and author

7:18

of a book about White Castle. Ah,

7:21

he put it between two halves

7:23

of Abad. And now

7:25

we have the we have the food

7:28

that were most familiar with. A people

7:30

like that Know whether Walt Anderson was

7:32

truly the first to create a contemporary

7:34

hamburger is not really what matters, what

7:37

matters. And the part of a story

7:39

for which we do not need to

7:41

issue a disclaimer is what happened next.

7:44

Building. On his success was opened

7:46

his first burger place and nineteen

7:48

sixteen I'll setting an old shoe

7:50

repair sam with three stores selling

7:52

burgers for five cents apiece. The

7:54

Sands official slogan was by and

7:56

by the Sack David Hogans book.

7:58

By the way, Called selling

8:00

them by the sack. Eventually,

8:03

Wolves burgers would be nicknamed

8:05

sliders. And contrary to popular

8:07

belief, sliders are not just

8:09

tiny burgers there, specifically burgers

8:11

cooked with raw onions because

8:14

that's how Walt made his.

8:16

As it turns out, Wichita was

8:19

the perfect place to set America

8:21

on it's burger journey and the

8:23

early nineteen hundreds. immigration from Europe

8:26

and Latin America, urban migration from

8:28

farms and the Kansas oil Boom

8:30

brought in thousands of laborers, all

8:32

looking for a fast. Cheap

8:34

meal. And. These are people

8:36

who are on their brakes, are underway

8:39

the factory or taking lunch or leaving

8:41

and they wanted something that was quick

8:43

and. Savory, And hardy

8:45

and cheap. And that is exactly what

8:47

the sliders provided. By. Nineteen

8:49

twenties Walt Anderson had multiple stands

8:51

in Wichita, but it wasn't get

8:53

a fast food restaurant chain in

8:56

the way we would understand it.

8:58

Because. There was still a big obstacle

9:01

preventing burgers from really taking off. Most

9:03

Americans didn't trust ground beef, thanks in

9:05

large part to a book that is

9:07

so famous, so important and so influential

9:09

that I'm actually a little shocked realized

9:12

that it has never once been mentioned

9:14

in the course of Five Hundred and

9:16

Sixty nine episodes of Ninety Nine Percent

9:18

Invisible. Journalist. Absence and

9:20

Claire's bestselling novel The Jungle

9:22

was meant to raise the

9:25

alarm of the unsanitary and

9:27

appalling working conditions at me

9:29

processing plants, but it had

9:31

an unintended side effect. And

9:33

everybody who read it or heard about it,

9:35

read instead that oh my God. Eating meat

9:37

is bad. Here's just one facet.

9:39

there would be meet stored in great

9:41

piles and rooms and the water from

9:44

wiki roofs with trip over it and

9:46

thousands of rats would race about honor.

9:48

It was too dark and the source

9:50

places to see well when a man

9:52

could run his hand over these piles

9:54

of meats and sweep of handfuls of

9:56

the dried dawn of rats. Suffice.

10:01

To say the book was impossible

10:03

announced that over a decade later.

10:05

many Me products can say this

10:07

think especially ground meat. But

10:10

what ground meat really was everybody

10:12

does do is be that an

10:14

essentially gone bad. Was. Ground

10:16

jobs infused with chemicals are

10:18

literally preservatives, and it would

10:20

be marketable for another week

10:22

or so. Ground. Me

10:24

with the the poor for the better

10:27

off. Eating at one of Walt Anderson

10:29

Burger sands would have been embarrassing. Bought.

10:32

Told the local newspaper said children would

10:34

routinely order a half a dozen burgers

10:36

to carry outs then he wants as

10:38

they would run around the corner to

10:40

a fancy cars were their mothers were

10:43

waving to ashamed he presumed to com

10:45

and to waltz dinky little place themselves.

10:48

If he wanted the business to grow. Love.

10:50

Needed a partner specifically

10:52

a salesman. Billie

10:56

and Groom is the ultimate nineteen

10:58

twenties booster, you know, just hustling

11:00

nonstop to sell you something. Edgar

11:02

Waldo Ingram to win by beliefs

11:04

With of Wichita Insurance and Real

11:07

Estate Broker and and nineteen twenty

11:09

one he partnered up with Walt

11:11

to help sell the public on.

11:13

Hamburgers. Even. Though at

11:15

the time everyone warned Billie to

11:17

say away. But I told

11:20

him he should keep his name

11:22

alive in insurance business because his

11:24

son would find out that he

11:26

would make a big mistake fooling

11:28

around with hamburgers. this is one

11:30

of Billy's old business associates or

11:32

but it didn't work out that

11:34

way. That is definitely a lot

11:36

because when Billie Ingram to the

11:38

book the market for burgers he

11:40

saw something that bastard his business

11:42

mans been heart. Know

11:44

there was no conferences. This

11:47

is from an interview with Billy years later.

11:50

So this may seem

11:52

strange to find ways

11:54

to remove. Karma,

11:57

Us Cities. Then

12:00

you find I went to St

12:02

Louis Saranow ambers your senses St

12:04

Louis on I seem to com

12:07

sua know hamburgers Samsung is hop.

12:10

In. This curious vacuum Billie said about

12:12

convincing Americans to buy burgers by

12:14

turning both stance into a special

12:16

kind of restaurant the likes of

12:19

which didn't yet exist. Walt.

12:21

Was well aware of the stigma attached

12:23

to Graham these so he already had

12:26

fresh be delivered twice a day and

12:28

even ground the meat in front of

12:30

customers. But with the addition of Billie

12:33

on the team, these initiatives were taken

12:35

to new slightly neurotic sites. He.

12:37

Said we have to do have

12:40

the best products, the healthiest products

12:42

in the most cleverly surroundings that

12:44

we could possibly have. And.

12:46

Nineteen Twenty One billion while

12:48

debuted a new concept with

12:50

a very scientific sounding name:

12:52

the White Castle system of

12:55

eating houses white to signify

12:57

purity and castle to signify

12:59

strength and permanence. And system

13:01

to signify Asia. System.

13:04

Of emails is. What? White

13:06

Castle did was absolutely unique. I'm

13:08

sure there are other versions of

13:10

auto, mass and small scale diners

13:12

that that really serve food quickly.

13:14

Indoors by White Castle had a

13:17

whole system that made it stand

13:19

out in it's efficiency and really

13:21

replicated the experience of dining in

13:23

a way that a lot of

13:25

other restaurants that had multiple occasions

13:27

didn't really do. That. Consistency

13:29

Started with the castles of themselves.

13:32

Every restaurant would soon be made

13:34

out of white porcelain enameled still

13:36

making the exterior extra son and

13:38

easy to clean. There.

13:40

Was a lot of character in

13:42

these white castle buildings. They actually

13:44

look like castles. They had this

13:46

kind of our and stained glass

13:48

to rated a static that I

13:50

thought looking at it why wouldn't

13:52

you want ether Looks like a

13:54

lot of fun inside. The restaurants

13:56

all have the same well, a

13:58

grill, a counter, and five

14:01

snoles and everything was scrubbed

14:03

daily so it sparkled. The

14:05

checkered tile, the woodwork, the

14:07

utensils. Every restaurant was open

14:09

concept so you could watch the cook

14:11

prepare your burger on a visibly clean

14:13

grill in front of you. And from

14:15

the very beginning and Billy

14:17

Antgroove said we want our

14:19

employees to be extremely positive,

14:21

we want them to be

14:24

customer-friendly. Billy insisted that employees all

14:26

wear clean white shirts pants and aprons.

14:29

Hair was to be covered by a white paper

14:31

cap. Fingernails were to be kept

14:33

neat and clean and

14:35

elaborate jewelry and wristwatches were

14:38

strictly prohibited. The menu

14:40

featured just a handful of

14:42

items. Coffee, Coca-Cola, pie and

14:44

hamburgers made exclusively of beef

14:46

shoulder meat. The smaller the menu the

14:48

faster and more reliably the items on it could

14:51

be made. Likewise everything

14:53

about the patties, the square shape

14:55

and the five holes which were

14:58

added later were designed to promote

15:00

faster cooking and seemingly instantaneous

15:02

service every time. The

15:04

funny thing is today if we had the exact

15:06

same experience everywhere we go we think of it

15:09

as kind of weird and dystopian right? But

15:11

there is a beauty in going to a place where you

15:13

know what the experience is going to be like. You know

15:15

how much of the food is going to cost, you know

15:17

exactly what it's going to taste like, you know what the

15:19

store generally is going to look like. This

15:21

was also the time when Americans were

15:23

becoming more invested in national products than

15:26

locally produced ones. White Castle

15:28

appealed to the same customers buying

15:30

off-the-rack clothing from Sears Roebuck and

15:32

shopping for Kellogg's Cornflakes and Campbell

15:35

Soup. Uniformity and

15:37

affordability was the point. I

15:40

think there was something about what

15:42

Billy Ingram was selling with the hamburger

15:45

that made it seem modern, that made

15:47

it seem like he has

15:49

this proto assembly line of

15:51

people creating all these burgers while you

15:53

know a few hundred miles north the

15:55

assembly lines of Detroit are churning out

15:58

Model T's. White Castle also... made

16:00

its restaurants accessible, strategically

16:02

building their factories and later

16:04

college campuses. And during

16:07

a time when African Americans couldn't travel

16:09

safely around the country or freely enter

16:11

most restaurants, David Hogan

16:13

says Billy Ingram didn't discriminate.

16:16

He was going to take anybody's dollar. You

16:19

know, or in the case of this, anybody's

16:21

nickel. Meanwhile,

16:23

in its zeal to introduce hamburgers

16:25

to the middle class, the company

16:27

developed some slightly bizarre but effective

16:30

marketing strategies. The company

16:32

commissioned a study at the University of

16:34

Minnesota where a medical student ate nothing

16:36

but White Castle hamburgers and water for

16:39

13 weeks. At the end

16:41

of the experiment, a food scientist

16:43

came to the conclusion that

16:45

a normal, healthy child could

16:47

subsist off a totally White

16:49

Castle diet and be perfectly

16:52

fine. Kind of like the

16:54

documentary supersize me, except, you know, the

16:56

opposite. The combination of

16:58

predictability, cleanliness, and good old

17:01

fashioned false advertising was a

17:03

winning formula. By the early

17:06

1930s, White Castle and

17:08

along with it hamburgers were considered

17:10

so mainstream and trendy that they

17:12

had even become the favorite meal

17:14

of beloved cartoon characters. There's

17:17

nothing in the world that

17:19

can compare with a hamburger

17:21

juicy and fair. It

17:24

was a craze. It literally was a craze.

17:26

It was like everybody just thought that this

17:29

new product was so incredible. Throughout

17:31

the 1920s and 30s, the White Castle

17:33

Burger Empire expanded out from Wichita rapidly.

17:36

In that interview with Billy from later on, he

17:38

lists off the locations. First Laredo,

17:41

then Omaha, Kansas City, St.

17:43

Louis. In Minneapolis, Chicago,

17:46

Detroit, Indianapolis,

17:49

Columbus, Cincinnati, New

17:52

York, and New Jersey.

17:54

We now have 84 in operation.

17:57

But White Castle would eventually encounter the problems

17:59

after offered by every truly

18:01

great innovative groundbreaking company. People

18:05

in cities across America

18:07

said, okay, there's something

18:09

about this White Castle. We're not sure what it

18:11

is. So let's just copy the whole damn thing.

18:14

Let's copy the name almost. Let's

18:16

copy the architecture. Let's copy the

18:18

burger. Let's copy the

18:21

delivery system. Let's copy everything.

18:24

Give me heaven's thunder. Let's

18:26

watch your sister's back.

18:29

Give me heaven's thunder. She'll just naturally

18:31

love crystal hamburgers. Don't the photos feed right

18:33

into the bunches. Before

18:36

long, you could find White Hut,

18:38

White Palace, White Tower, Red Tower,

18:40

Blue Tower, Little Tavern, Little

18:42

Crowns, Little Castle. That's

18:45

Castle with a K. Have you

18:47

ever had one of those wonderful days when everything

18:49

seems to turn into a tasty donut or

18:52

a meal of tasty Castle

18:54

burgers? The quality of these

18:57

copycat operations was often questionable.

19:06

But since many of the White

19:08

Castle imitators were housed in white

19:10

buildings or featured Castle architecture like

19:12

turrets, they appeared

19:15

extremely similar. Some

19:17

places didn't even try and come up with

19:19

a new name. They just straight up called

19:21

themselves White Castle. It's trademark

19:23

infringement, obviously. A company

19:25

is only as good as its name. You

19:28

know, when that name gets diluted, it's

19:30

a threat to their existence. White

19:33

Castle ended up suing one of the biggest imitators and

19:35

winning a large payout. But

19:37

ultimately, it was a game of

19:39

legal whack-a-mole. It was impossible to go

19:41

after everyone. But even if

19:44

they could, the company would still face

19:46

a dilemma. Because the thing

19:48

that White Castle pioneered, the unique

19:50

dining experience Walt and Billy started

19:52

selling back in 1921, it

19:56

was becoming commonplace. In

19:58

a sense, there was nothing to do with it. something unique

20:00

for White Castle to sell that

20:02

wasn't also offered by its competitors.

20:05

And there was one imitator who would do

20:07

more than just compete with White Castle. Instead,

20:10

it would essentially replace it by

20:12

becoming nearly synonymous with fast food

20:15

itself. It's

20:17

just ready for a trip to

20:19

McDonald's, black and white. McDonald's

20:24

was founded in San Bernardino,

20:26

California by brothers Richard and

20:28

Maurice McDonald in 1940. That's

20:30

20 years after White Castle.

20:33

And at first, just like

20:35

the other copycats, it took so

20:37

much from White Castle. Diligent levels

20:39

of cleanliness, a limited menu. And

20:43

if you find an old picture of

20:45

the very first McDonald's, it

20:47

has a slogan that says buy him by the bag

20:49

on the marquee. And that's a direct

20:51

rip off of White Castle. But

20:53

McDonald's had a crucial advantage that

20:55

all the other White Castle imitators

20:58

didn't have. It had Ray

21:00

Kroc. Kroc

21:04

was the businessman who took the company national in

21:06

1955. Ray

21:08

Kroc, bless his heart, just

21:11

learned somehow to do it bigger. And

21:14

ultimately, I guess you could argue

21:16

better. Take location

21:18

for starters. White Castle places restaurants

21:20

near factories, downtowns and colleges. But

21:22

McDonald's came of age during the

21:24

building of the interstate and the

21:26

rise of the suburb. So Kroc

21:29

placed his restaurants on increasingly busy

21:31

highways. And that was something that

21:33

Ray Kroc and a lot of his

21:35

operators and a lot of his executives helped

21:37

pioneer was a system to basically flood

21:40

the zone of American

21:43

roadsides with McDonald's. McDonald's

21:45

wasn't just a place for someone on foot to

21:48

grab food on their lunch break. It

21:50

was for anyone in a car on their

21:52

way to anywhere. But

21:54

it was also able to expand much

21:56

faster than White Castle because it was

21:58

willing to do something that White

22:00

Castle refused to do. It

22:03

franchised. Billy

22:05

Ingram, bless his heart, was way too

22:08

much of a control freak to do

22:10

that. The man who wanted every customer

22:12

to have the exact same perfect experience

22:14

wasn't about to relinquish any control. But

22:17

even if it resulted in the occasional

22:19

limp fry, franchising allowed McDonald's to grow

22:21

to 1,000 locations in just over

22:24

12 years. Faced

22:26

with the restaurant's sheer ubiquity,

22:28

it was easy for the public to just

22:31

assume that McDonald's did it all first. And

22:33

Croc didn't disabuse them. It's

22:36

a believer the stories of Ray Croc,

22:39

he invented fast food.

22:42

And of course, that is essentially the

22:44

message that people get today is that

22:47

McDonald's was the revolutionary

22:49

factor in the fast food

22:51

industry. Today, there are more

22:53

than 40,000 McDonald's

22:56

worldwide. Meanwhile, there are fewer

22:58

than 400 White Castles, mostly

23:01

in the New York area and the Midwest,

23:03

just a blip by fast food

23:05

standards. To understand just how

23:08

small White Castle's geographical and cultural

23:10

footprint is nowadays, look no further

23:12

than Wichita, the city where the

23:14

company was founded. White Castle left

23:16

Wichita in 1938. Now the nearest one

23:18

is over 300 miles away. I

23:25

recently went to Wichita to see

23:27

the first ever White Castle location,

23:29

literally on Main Street. The

23:31

original building is long gone. In its

23:34

place is this large bank. For

23:37

many years, I was told, people

23:39

would stop in and ask the tellers about

23:41

the history. But when I arrived,

23:44

the bank was boarded up. Eventually

23:47

Denise Sherman let me into the bank.

23:50

She's the executive director for the Kansas

23:52

African American Museum, who now owns the

23:54

building. This is the

23:57

actual White Castle back. Okay,

23:59

it says site of the original White

24:01

Castle opened March 10th, 1921. It's

24:04

got a photo here. She showed

24:07

me how hidden inside the empty

24:09

building, next to discarded desks, and

24:11

other furniture, was an ode

24:13

to White Castle bolted to the wall.

24:16

But once we were there, Denise didn't have a

24:18

lot to say about it. So when did you

24:20

find out that this was a former White Castle?

24:22

It was a

24:25

long time ago. Yeah. Did you grow

24:27

up here? Do you have any thoughts

24:29

on the White Castle history here? If it's significant? The

24:31

only thought is that it's a shame we don't have one

24:33

here, but we will honor that and still

24:35

keep that plaque there. I also don't have to keep asking

24:38

you questions about White Castle if you don't have

24:40

anything. I don't know if I can add anything

24:42

else to it. It's just one of those things.

24:45

Now you might think that Denise is

24:47

an outlier, that Wichita is surely lousy

24:50

with Widgetons who love to boast about

24:52

how they invented fast food. But

24:55

no. While in Wichita, I

24:57

tried to gauge the public's civic appreciation

24:59

of White Castle and its contribution to

25:01

fast food history. And although

25:03

I did find a small handful of fans,

25:06

mostly the situation was pretty

25:08

bleak. What do you think

25:10

of as like the first burger chain that you can think

25:12

of in America? Like, if you had to guess, what's the

25:14

first burger chain? What comes to mind? McDonald's.

25:17

McDonald's. Do you think there's

25:20

a fan base for White Castle here? No,

25:22

probably not. Probably not. It's

25:25

not here anymore. Yeah. I

25:27

don't like oniony burgers anyways, so I'm

25:29

not a huge White Castle fan. So

25:31

that's fine with me. Now,

25:35

if you spent any time in the

25:37

Midwest, this all might seem a little

25:39

strange because there is

25:41

nothing the residents of a

25:43

Midwestern town love more than

25:45

finding something, anything to brag

25:47

about. And Wichita is

25:49

no exception. They just don't brag

25:51

about White Castle. And there is at

25:53

least one big reason

25:56

for this. This is the Pizza

25:58

Hut Museum. This is the actual original building. Sam

26:01

Morris is director of staff development

26:03

and special initiatives at Wichita State

26:05

University, where yes, there

26:07

is a museum dedicated to

26:09

Pizza Hut. Pizza Hut was

26:11

started in Wichita in 1958 and

26:14

while it's not technically the first

26:16

American pizza chain, it predates all

26:18

the most famous ones today. Little

26:20

Caesars, Domino's, Papa John's. Today

26:22

it has more than 19,000 restaurants worldwide. That's

26:25

50 times as large as White Castle. There's

26:28

various different memorabilia in here. The original cash

26:30

registers around the corner here. They've

26:33

got this pair of sweet sneakers. I

26:35

think they only got 50 made, but what they were

26:37

supposed to do is you'd click the tongue and it

26:39

would order you a pizza. Wait,

26:41

what? Yeah. So pretty ridiculous.

26:44

But there's all kinds of those types of things. So

26:46

there's Pizza Hut Barbie? Let's

26:48

go through that. There is a Pizza Hut Ken

26:50

as well, but he's right now in storage.

26:55

During the tour, I was honestly kind

26:57

of pissed. Why wasn't the

26:59

original White Castle this well preserved? Where

27:01

was its fancy museum? Where was its

27:03

Ken doll? But I

27:06

couldn't be too angry because even if

27:08

it is a semi obscure cultural punchline,

27:11

the truth is that today, White Castle

27:13

is not struggling. Its

27:16

definition of success is just a

27:18

bit different than most of its competitors. White

27:21

Castle is still family owned, but it's

27:23

no longer trying to pitch itself as

27:25

the definitive fast food chain. Instead,

27:27

it's found something else to sell. You

27:30

know, our vision as a family owned business is

27:32

to feed the souls of Craver Generations everywhere. Jamie

27:35

Richardson is an executive at White

27:37

Castle headquarters in Columbus, Ohio. He

27:40

is married to a fourth generation

27:42

Ingram and he leaves no room

27:45

for confusion about the company's current

27:47

strategy. I'm vice president of

27:49

marketing for restaurants and retail, but really

27:51

my unofficial title is Keeper of the

27:53

Crave. on

28:00

a White Castle slider. The

28:03

fact that you can't always find one nearby

28:05

now actually works to their advantage.

28:08

It's kind of like the fast food equivalent of

28:10

an outlet mall. Once you're

28:12

finally there, the whole point is

28:14

to go nuts and consume as

28:16

many of those tiny square sliders

28:18

as possible. Something, as

28:21

Jamie explained, they make sure is

28:23

always easy to do. So

28:25

you can buy a sack of 10 or

28:27

get a Crave clutch with 20, Crave case

28:30

with 30, Crave crate with

28:32

100. I'm still working on the

28:34

Crave palette, maybe someday. That's 6,982 if you're interested.

28:38

Please call ahead. But yeah, it keeps it fun.

28:41

We don't take ourselves too seriously. This

28:44

approach has earned White Castle

28:46

an extremely loyal fan base.

28:49

When White Castle opened up a new location

28:51

in Orlando, Florida in 2020, customers camped out

28:55

overnight and waited in line for

28:57

six hours. And

28:59

for those who just can't wait that long,

29:02

there's also a version of their favorite slider

29:04

in the frozen food aisle. White

29:07

Castle even has an exclusive Craver's Hall

29:09

of Fame for its most devoted fans.

29:12

In a small room behind an

29:14

undisclosed door, a group

29:16

of White Castle staff sift through thousands

29:18

of applications to determine who has what

29:21

it takes to be inducted

29:23

into the Craver's Hall of Fame. Wow,

29:26

I can't believe how many Craver's Hall

29:28

of Fame applications were gathered. Applications

29:30

are evaluated by a panel of judges

29:32

according to four criteria, loyalty

29:34

to the White Castle brand,

29:37

creative presentation of the story,

29:39

uniqueness and originality of the

29:41

content and extent and magnitude

29:43

of the author's crave. Inductees

29:46

are flown to Columbus, Ohio for a

29:48

formal ceremony at White Castle headquarters, a

29:51

building which one Hall of Famer

29:53

described as Willy Wonka-esque. In

29:56

addition to a giant wooden throne in the

29:58

lobby, there's also a building that's a

30:00

two-story spiral slide. So

30:03

there's an emotional connection to these fans

30:05

that's real and at the end of

30:07

the day we don't try

30:09

to be like everybody else. All of

30:12

which helps keep White Castle customers

30:14

coming back again and

30:16

again and again.

30:18

And you can buy

30:21

them in the grocery store freezer frozen. It will

30:23

get you by in a pinch but

30:25

it's not the same. That's Jeremy

30:27

Brooks, the White Castle superfan who

30:29

lives in Kansas City where there

30:31

are, remember, no White Castles. Which

30:34

is why even though he may not be in

30:36

the Cravers Hall of Fame, he and

30:38

his friends still make the pilgrimage to

30:40

the nearest White Castle location. In Columbia,

30:43

Missouri, a four-hour round

30:46

trip. So is

30:48

this something that is very premeditated or is

30:50

it spontaneous? I would say

30:52

more spontaneous than premeditated. You know, get to like

30:54

a Friday night everybody's off at work. Like,

30:57

alright, you know, whoever's car has the, you

30:59

know, the most available room or, you know,

31:01

in best condition as the case might be

31:03

with some of us, you know, and just

31:06

hit the road. Is this

31:08

in any way inspired by a certain movie?

31:11

My, if you want to call

31:13

it an addiction, call it what it is. My

31:15

fascination and my love for White

31:17

Castle exists long before said movie

31:20

existed. Although that definitely did not

31:22

hurt things at all. At

31:25

the end of Harold and Kumar go to

31:27

White Castle, there's this moment. Harold

31:29

and Kumar have spent all night trying

31:31

to make it to a White Castle

31:33

location when they finally see one in

31:35

the distance. And Kumar starts

31:37

this motivational speech about why his

31:39

parents immigrated to this country in

31:41

the first place. They

31:44

wanted to live in a land that treated them as equals. A

31:47

land filled with hamburger stands. And not

31:49

just one type of hamburger, okay? Hundreds

31:51

of types of different sizes, capitals, and

31:53

continents. It's

31:55

incredibly cheesy, but it does

31:57

take on new meaning when you realize

31:59

that. what he's referring to, it's

32:02

White Castle's legacy. This

32:04

is about the pursuit of happiness. This

32:07

night, it's

32:09

about the American dream. Because

32:12

even if it doesn't always get the

32:14

credit it deserves, we live in the

32:16

world White Castle built. One

32:20

in which, whether you're on the road or

32:22

in a new city, you're able to get

32:24

exactly the thing you're hungry for, and to

32:26

have it taste just the way you remember,

32:29

every time. After

32:39

the break, Mackenzie is back to explain why every year,

32:42

thousands of your fellow Americans head to

32:44

White Castle for

32:48

Valentine's

32:50

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36:42

Hey, Mackenzie. Hey Roman. So as

36:44

you know, Valentine's Day is coming up.

36:46

Yes. What are your feelings

36:49

on this particular holiday? Um, I've,

36:52

you know, mixed to good. You

36:56

know, I don't know. Yeah, I get that. Well,

36:58

I personally, I like the aesthetic

37:00

and the chocolate centric aspect of

37:02

it. But I find

37:04

being in a restaurant on Valentine's Day,

37:07

just a horrible experience. To

37:09

the point that I cannot go out, the

37:12

stakes are just way too high. You've got

37:14

these expensive, pre-fic menus. Everyone's

37:16

supposed to be having this super romantic

37:18

night. It's just a lot of pressure.

37:20

And that is why Roman, when I

37:22

found out that White Castle has a

37:25

unique kind of Valentine's Day tradition,

37:27

it was immediately hooked. Yeah. Well,

37:30

you have to be intrigued by that. So

37:32

tell me more. So in essence, every

37:34

year on Valentine's Day only, all

37:37

participating White Castle locations in

37:39

the country transform into a

37:41

fine dining establishment. But

37:43

it's not stuffy because it's still White Castle. So,

37:46

um, it's just suddenly, it

37:48

has table service. It's got

37:50

menus, White tablecloth, candlelight, roses,

37:52

and they have been doing this

37:54

for a long time since 1991. So we're coming up

37:56

on nearly 35 years. And

38:00

I first heard about this tradition from

38:02

Adam Chandler, our fast food expert from

38:05

the episode. I presume you remember him.

38:07

Of course, of course. So

38:09

I don't think I made this super

38:11

clear in the episode, but I cannot

38:13

stress enough how fascinated

38:15

Adam is by fast food. This

38:18

is my dog, Arby, after the

38:20

roast beef place. Arby? Yeah. Oh

38:23

my gosh, I love that you talk to him, Arby. Arby, come on.

38:27

That's it? Nine

38:29

years ago, Valentine's Day was approaching, much

38:31

like it is now, and

38:34

Adam had just started dating someone,

38:36

which is kind of an awkward thing. You know,

38:39

Valentine's Day felt like it was a lot

38:41

of pressure to put on the early moments

38:43

of a relationship. So he had heard about

38:46

this Valentine's Day tradition at White Castle, but

38:48

he'd never gone. And he figured, this is

38:50

what I'll do. But he decided to keep

38:52

it a surprise. And I said, we're

38:55

comfortable clothes, which is a red

38:57

flag immediately in a romantic

39:00

date situation. Oh, I

39:02

don't know. Any

39:06

sort of surprises make me

39:08

nervous. Romantic-style surprises make me

39:10

extremely nervous. So I'm

39:12

very worried about this. I

39:14

also hate surprises. And it's also worth pointing

39:16

out that this woman is a food writer.

39:18

Oh my god. She went to

39:21

culinary school. So it was

39:23

maybe a bit of a gamble for Adam to take

39:25

her to a fast food restaurant in the first place,

39:28

let alone for this

39:30

extremely romantic occasion. But

39:32

his rationale was that it was almost

39:34

like a litmus test. So

39:37

the idea that I would be able to

39:39

take a date to a White Castle and

39:41

have a good time seemed like, for

39:45

the right person, excellent experience. And for the

39:47

wrong person, maybe it would tell me something

39:49

about my relationship. I'll grant him that.

39:51

It will tell you something about your relationship, depending

39:54

on how that goes. But I still am

39:56

not sure if it's the best idea to do this

39:58

on Valentine's Day. So, um, what

40:01

happened? Well, they get there,

40:03

to this White Castle in Brooklyn,

40:05

and it is no longer a

40:07

normal White Castle. It is

40:09

now, for one night of the year,

40:11

declaring itself the Love Castle.

40:16

Oh my god. Okay, Love Castle. It's

40:18

perfect. Okay, keep going. So just picture it.

40:21

The whole restaurant is decked out with

40:23

like, paper hearts and red streamers and

40:25

paper backgrounds, kisses on it. There's

40:28

this romantic playlist coming out of

40:30

the speakers, the candles on the

40:32

table, I mentioned earlier, albeit like

40:34

LED candles, but still. And

40:37

the hostess shows Adam and his date

40:39

to their reserved table, gives

40:42

them a menu, which is, of course,

40:44

Valentine's Day themed. Okay, tell

40:46

me more about this, because I can't imagine

40:48

what romantic dishes await them on the White

40:50

Castle's Valentine's Day menu. I know,

40:52

right? Well, I don't know exactly

40:55

what they served that time, but this

40:57

year, the Love Castle will be serving

40:59

the Love Clutch Collection, which is a

41:02

White Castle meal for two. Last year,

41:04

they offered a special Sprite Love Castle

41:06

potion, which is like, this cherry vanilla

41:08

version of Sprite. Another year,

41:11

they debuted a strawberry swirl cheesecake

41:13

on a stick, and that

41:15

one actually ended up staying on the regular menu.

41:17

So very classy. And on

41:19

top of that, they have White Castle Valentine's

41:21

Day merch, too. So

41:24

we've got a White Castle scented candle,

41:26

red heart shaped Love Castle

41:28

sunglasses. And there's also

41:30

my personal favorite, the Love

41:32

Castle robe, which is

41:35

this maroon, satin, kimono style

41:37

robe with drawings of Cupid

41:39

and sliders all over it. Oh

41:41

my. Okay, I think I see what they're going for.

41:43

It's like a little cheesy, a little over the top,

41:45

and they just seem to be able to balance it

41:47

all with a really good sense of humor. That's

41:49

a good way to put it. And that is

41:52

why, when Adam arrived at the Love

41:54

Castle with his date, and he sees

41:56

all of this, being the fast food fan

41:59

that he is, he was

42:01

immediately charmed by the spectacle. The

42:03

environment there can't be beat. Everyone's having a good

42:05

time. And it just takes

42:08

all the expectations away from what is normally,

42:10

I think, an over

42:12

pressured, over hyped, unnecessarily stressful

42:14

event. Well, you know, the

42:16

fast food writer with

42:18

the dog name Arby likes it. I had no

42:20

doubt about that. But like, you know, what

42:23

does his date think? She also

42:26

liked it. Okay, thank God. Okay.

42:29

In fact, it was such a

42:31

success that his date is actually now

42:33

his fiancé. And

42:35

they have had White Castle for Valentine's

42:37

Day every year since. Oh, that is

42:39

the cutest thing I've ever heard. That's amazing. And

42:42

since this episode comes out the day

42:44

before Valentine's Day, and they

42:47

are, of course, doing it again this

42:49

year, tomorrow will be their tenth time.

42:51

Oh, that's so sweet. There will be their tenth

42:53

White Castle anniversary. Well, might as well talk to

42:55

them. It's a very beautiful thing. And

42:57

it turns out that a lot of other

42:59

people have also made this an annual tradition.

43:02

One story that Adam told me that stuck

43:04

out the most was this group of five

43:07

women in Minnesota who are all widows. And

43:09

they go every year to reminisce about their late

43:12

husbands. And I think that that again kind

43:14

of speaks to what it means to

43:16

have places that are accessible and

43:18

affordable and democratic that are

43:20

welcoming to anyone on a

43:23

day like Valentine's Day, which can be isolating

43:26

and lonely. There's not a lot of that

43:28

left, I think, in American life. There aren't

43:30

a lot of meeting places and third places

43:32

where you see all kind of swaths

43:35

of humanity uniting, especially over something as intimate

43:37

as a meal. You know, Adam's making

43:39

a really good point here because I think it's

43:41

pretty easy to look at the

43:44

extreme commodification of food in

43:46

this way and feel like this mass-produced

43:48

food is made for mass-produced people who

43:50

have mass-produced feelings. And it's all the

43:53

same. And the food is treated

43:55

like a product. You're kind of treated like a product.

43:57

However, I have been in... in

44:00

a car with a bunch

44:02

of kids in the back chanting,

44:04

nugets, nugets, nugets. And it's like

44:06

a joyful experience that they can

44:08

all have this thing and we

44:11

can have fun with it and

44:13

enjoy it. And it's just kind

44:15

of great. And fast food can be both those things

44:17

at once. Yeah, I feel like fast

44:19

food is kind of all of the worst

44:21

things and all of the best things

44:23

about America packed into one

44:26

10 stack of sliders. I still

44:28

think 10 sliders,

44:30

it seems like too much. It's

44:32

really not. Now

44:35

I do need to point out that

44:37

White Castle isn't the only fast food

44:39

establishment that pulls out extra stops for

44:41

Valentine's Day. Maybe you've seen this around

44:43

as well, Roman. There are reports of

44:45

individual McDonald's locations doing something like this.

44:48

Always wanted to take a leaf out of White Castle's playbook

44:51

but these chains have had mixed

44:53

results. Like notoriously pizza places

44:55

like Papa John's and Pizza Hut

44:57

tried to sell heart shaped pizzas

44:59

back in 2017 and got

45:02

a lot of social media hate

45:04

when customers received horribly misfigured pizzas

45:06

or ones that only became heart

45:09

shaped because they showed up with a slice

45:11

missing. So this is

45:13

one area where Adam says White

45:15

Castle continues to dominate. Well, that makes

45:17

sense to me. If you're gonna do Valentine's

45:19

Day associated with a fast food restaurant, White

45:22

Castle sounds like the safest bet. And also

45:24

kind of the perfect amount of kitchen style

45:26

that they seem to have perfected over the

45:28

decades. Totally. But Adam

45:30

did warn me that Valentine's Day is now in

45:32

under 24 hours. So

45:35

if you haven't planned ahead, don't

45:37

think you can just waltz into a White Castle tomorrow

45:39

night and expect to be seated. You have

45:41

to book early. I book

45:43

like three or four weeks in advance sometimes ahead of

45:46

time because it sells out. The times sell out. I'm

45:48

not joking, this is a hot ticket. So

45:50

have you booked your reserved seats for

45:52

Valentine's Day this year? Definitely not

45:54

because you may remember when I

45:57

started reporting this episode, I

45:59

had never actually booked. into a White Castle at

46:01

all. That's right. But like since then,

46:03

have you gone? I

46:06

have. I'm happy to report that

46:08

I recently rectified this. When

46:10

I finished all the reporting for this episode, I had

46:13

to see what the fuss was about, you know? So

46:16

this past November, I finally

46:18

had my first non-frozen, in-person

46:20

White Castle experience. I

46:24

am going to get two 1921 sliders. American

46:28

Sheikah Patty? Yeah. And

46:31

I'm also going to get the

46:33

original cheese slider. Okay.

46:35

So what was the verdict? Do you love it?

46:38

Do you hate it? Are you now a craver? Are you potentially

46:40

going to be in the Craver Hall of Fame? It was

46:42

awesome. Like, I get it now. I

46:45

get it. That's great. I think

46:47

these are way better in real life. I think the buns way better.

46:50

The pickle's really good too. Well,

46:54

this is awesome. I'm so glad that you could

46:56

do this whole story and then find in the

46:59

end that you're actually enjoying the burger, because that

47:01

would be such a disaster if you didn't. Thank

47:03

you so much for bringing this story. It was

47:05

just great. It was great working with you too.

47:07

Thanks, Raymond. 99%

47:15

Invisible was reported this week by Mackenzie

47:18

Martin, produced by Jacob Multinano Medina and

47:20

edited by Joe Rosenberg, mixed in sound

47:22

design by Martin Gonzalez, music by Swan

47:24

Rial, with additional music by Jenny Conley,

47:27

Nate Query, and John Neufeld. Oakland.

48:00

California. A different version

48:02

of the story first aired on the

48:04

KCUR Studios podcast of People's History of

48:06

Kansas City and was lovingly edited by

48:09

Gabe Rosenberg and Suzanne Hogan. People's

48:11

History has got a ton of fascinating stories all from

48:14

Kansas City's peculiar corner of the

48:16

Midwest. We highly recommend you check it

48:18

out. Adam Chandler's book about America's fast

48:20

food kingdom is called Drive Through Dreams

48:22

and for even more about White Castle,

48:24

you can check out Selling Them by

48:26

the Sack by Dave Hogan. You

48:30

can find us on all the usual social media sites

48:32

as well as our very own Discord server we have

48:34

a link to that on our website as well as

48:36

every past episode of 99PI at 99PI. You

48:56

say you'll never join the Navy. You say

48:58

you'll never join the Navy that you

49:00

never track storms brewing in the Atlantic.

49:05

At could never

49:07

be part of your community. You'd

49:09

never climb Mount Fuji on a

49:11

port. We'll fly so

49:14

fast, you break the sound

49:16

barrier. Joining

49:18

the Navy sounds crazy, saying

49:20

never actually is. start your

49:23

journey at navy.com, America's Navy.

49:25

Navy, forged by the sea. In

49:36

this world, sounds have gone mysteriously missing.

49:38

Follow Detective Hunch and his sidekick Audie

49:41

the Ear as they track them down

49:43

and find the nefarious sound swindler. All

49:45

with a little help from me, LaVar

49:48

Burton. You can listen to Sound Detectives

49:50

on SiriusXM, Pandora or wherever you get

49:52

your podcast. And don't forget to follow

49:54

the show so you never miss

49:57

an episode. Sound good to you? Sounds

49:59

great. to me.