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1:45

today. This

1:48

is 99% Invisible. I'm

1:50

Roman Mars. In

1:54

2020, journalist Lauren Ober received

1:56

a somewhat unexpected diagnosis. autism

2:00

diagnosis, to be exact, and

2:02

unexpected because I'm a very middle-aged

2:05

lady. I'm loud and

2:07

physical, and I don't exactly fit

2:09

any of the autistic stereotypes. Nerdy,

2:12

quiet, indoors, unathletic, into

2:15

video games, and unable

2:17

to sustain eye contact?

2:20

That's not me. But then I learned

2:22

that those are stereotypical male

2:24

autistic traits, gleaned from years

2:26

of research on autistic men

2:28

and boys. Autism in

2:31

women and girls has historically been

2:33

overlooked. And because of

2:35

that, my neurodivergent sisters and I didn't

2:37

realize that we could be so much

2:40

more than those tired autistic tropes.

2:43

But we can. And when I

2:45

understood that, the cloud sort of lifted for

2:47

me. A lot of the pieces

2:49

of my life started to click into place.

2:52

Lauren even made a podcast about her

2:54

experience called The Loudest Girl in the

2:57

World. And she found herself imagining a

2:59

fantasy world where everything is tailored to

3:01

Lauren's very specific autistic needs. I

3:05

call this world autism pleasantville. And

3:08

it wouldn't have sirens or fireworks

3:10

or people talking loudly on their

3:12

phones in public. Also,

3:14

no oppressively bright overhead lighting

3:17

or spaces pumped with artificial

3:19

fragrance. And the

3:22

foot traffic flow of public spaces

3:24

would be such that I wasn't

3:26

constantly touching strangers. Some

3:28

of these stimuli can be irritating or

3:31

unpleasant for neurotypical people. But

3:33

they have the potential to be debilitating for

3:35

people with sensory issues. Which

3:37

is why autism pleasantville wasn't some

3:39

throwaway fantasy for me. And

3:42

obviously, there's not a one size

3:44

fits all diagnosis or even definition

3:46

of autism. Or as

3:48

the autism adage goes, if you

3:50

know one autistic person, you know

3:52

one autistic person. But

3:55

despite our wide variety of needs, I wanted

3:57

to know how design is evolving to the

3:59

world. better accommodate us. So

4:03

autism and neurodivergence are considered disabilities

4:06

under the ADA, which means that

4:08

they are protected by the ADA.

4:12

I talked with Elio McCabe, policy manager

4:14

for the Autistic Women and

4:16

Non-Binary Network. Elio is

4:19

autistic and also a lawyer with

4:21

an expertise in disability rights.

4:24

So accommodating neurodivergent and autistic people

4:26

often means thinking a lot about

4:28

their sensory needs. So

4:30

what we're seeing now is a bit

4:33

of a movement beyond just thinking about

4:35

physical access and thinking a

4:37

little bit more about other needs. Lauren

4:40

wanted to know what it looked like to

4:42

accommodate people with autism and sensory disabilities. And

4:45

she had recently heard of a certification program

4:47

meant to highlight when a city is autism

4:50

friendly. That designation is

4:52

what led me to Mesa, Arizona, the

4:56

world's first autism certified city. We

5:00

are the 36th largest

5:02

city in the United States. And

5:05

over the past 20 years, especially in the

5:07

past 15 years, we've

5:10

just seen explosive growth in

5:12

Mesa. That's Marc

5:14

Garcia. He's the CEO of Visit

5:16

Mesa and possibly the biggest cheerleader

5:19

for this desert city of more

5:21

than half a million people just outside of

5:23

Phoenix. It's flat and expansive

5:25

and perhaps not a destination you go out

5:27

of your way to visit. Unless

5:30

you're a big baseball fan because the Oakland

5:32

A's and the Chicago Cubs both have spring

5:34

training compounds in the city. Mesa's

5:36

got some other draws, a few

5:39

casinos nearby, a surprising number of

5:41

karaoke bars and golf, if that's your

5:43

thing. We're probably the largest city a lot

5:45

of folks haven't heard about. And

5:47

that's because we've kind of been in the shadow of

5:49

Phoenix all these years. And

5:52

I can tell you that Mesa has

5:54

always been a city with a huge heart. to

6:00

being Mesa's biggest booster, Mark is also

6:02

the father of an autistic child. And

6:05

that means that Mark is very

6:07

familiar with the challenges of traveling

6:09

while autistic. Mark remembers

6:11

this one time when his son was having

6:14

a meltdown on a family vacation in Southern

6:16

California. The hospitality staff

6:18

definitely made matters worse. And

6:21

we were made to feel unwelcome. We

6:24

were made to feel uncomfortable. And

6:26

I'll never forget that feeling. The feeling

6:28

of being judged for his parenting and

6:30

for his child's behavior. And

6:32

it was just the looks that you get. You

6:35

didn't need verbal language. The body

6:37

language itself did all the damage possible.

6:41

And in some small way, Mark wanted to

6:43

change that. I said, you know,

6:45

I would like to train our hospitality staff

6:47

in Mesa at least to recognize

6:49

and become aware of what autism is. And

6:52

so that's what I set out to do. With

6:57

the support of city officials, Mark's

6:59

organization, Visit Mesa, rolled out its

7:02

autism inclusion program for Mesa in

7:04

2019. It included itineraries

7:06

filled with autism-friendly activities in

7:08

and around the city. Also

7:11

professional development for folks in all

7:13

types of industries in Mesa. Healthcare,

7:16

education, hospitality, as well as local

7:18

government. Then these

7:20

businesses, civic groups, and government offices

7:22

did some trainings through a group

7:24

called the International Board of Credentialing

7:27

and Continuing Education Standards. I mean,

7:30

who doesn't love a good credentialing board? The

7:32

goal of the trainings was to help

7:34

organizations meet autistic people where they are.

7:37

When Mesa hit a critical mass of businesses

7:39

that had done the trainings, the city was

7:41

designated an autism-certified

7:44

city. It was really

7:46

a citywide initiative. And it made

7:48

good business sense too, because accessibility

7:50

needs are rarely advanced because of

7:52

altruism alone. This wasn't just

7:54

because it was the right thing to do.

7:56

Good corporate responsibility. Yes, that

7:58

was certainly true. But for me,

8:00

this was a business decision. Because autistic

8:02

people have money, and we want to spend it.

8:05

Presumably, more autism-friendly businesses

8:07

and attractions means more

8:10

visitors who have neurodivergent

8:12

kids or who are neurodivergent

8:14

themselves. I mean, that's what brought

8:16

me to Mesa, and I wanted

8:19

to put the city's autism-friendliness to the

8:21

test. But that's kind of

8:23

hard in practice because why, Roman?

8:25

If you know one autistic person,

8:27

you know one autistic person. Correct.

8:31

So what works for me in terms of

8:33

noise or lighting or wayfinding or temperature

8:35

might not work for another

8:37

autistic person. And it

8:39

bears mentioning that in addition to having

8:41

a killer ability to mask, meaning I'm

8:43

amazing at hiding my weirdo brain differences,

8:46

I have a subtle

8:48

presentation of autism. So, again,

8:50

since I'm just one

8:52

autistic person with one particular

8:54

opinion, I invited my autistic

8:57

buddy, Thomas Kaufman, along to explore

8:59

Mesa with me. We met

9:01

at a cafe on the list

9:03

of autism-friendly establishments. I

9:06

realized that not only do you

9:08

have sensitive ears, but you also work

9:10

in audio. So

9:13

you're like doubly sensitive to it. I'm

9:15

like totally tuned into everything that's going

9:17

on. Thomas is a

9:19

physicist and PhD candidate in auditory and

9:22

language neuroscience, speech and hearing science, which

9:24

is a mouthful, but basically means he

9:26

cares a lot about how things sound.

9:29

Yeah, I don't think my brain backgrounds

9:31

anything like the

9:33

fridge buzzing in the background here. That

9:35

doesn't fade into the background. It's just as present as

9:38

everything else. I have to make a

9:40

conscious effort to not have

9:42

that noise impact my auditory

9:44

processing. The cafe's loud

9:46

music and overhead fans made for

9:49

a really hectic soundscape. Also,

9:51

Thomas really wasn't feeling the visuals.

9:53

To wit, the bathroom. It's

9:56

this strobe light. All you see is

9:58

pink strobing light. All

10:00

this made me wonder what happens in those

10:02

trainings for autism certification. Like,

10:05

what are businesses being taught about sensory

10:08

differences? And have any

10:10

city stakeholders made an effort to

10:12

change their physical spaces to accommodate

10:14

autistic folks? After

10:18

the coffee shop, Lauren and Thomas headed to

10:20

an art center slash museum on the autism

10:22

certification list. An employee, who

10:24

did not want to be named for

10:27

reasons that will become obvious later, explained

10:29

what made the art center autism-friendly. Say

10:32

a blanket. Some white neon stuff.

10:34

Some glasses. Some headphones for children

10:37

and adults. It was a

10:39

suitcase of sorts, like a pre-made sensory

10:41

kit from Amazon. Here's

10:44

a gallon ziplock bag with

10:46

a whole bunch of bright neon plastic

10:48

toys. That's

10:50

exactly what I was hoping. Not

10:54

to mention some very stiff ear defenders,

10:56

like the kind a landscaper would wear

10:58

while operating a weed whacker. Of

11:01

course, I forced Thomas to model them

11:03

for me. You look amazing. I

11:05

mean, there's like a lot of pressure on my head, but

11:10

it's almost like I feel a suction on

11:12

my ear canals. So

11:15

it's not a positive experience

11:17

for you? No, I'd

11:19

rather use earphones. Okay,

11:21

alright. Fair. This

11:26

idea of an autism-friendly city is relatively

11:28

new, so there isn't a ton of

11:30

data to gauge whether these efforts are

11:32

effective. Still, if we

11:35

give Mesa the benefit of the doubt, it

11:37

seems like these businesses are trying to do

11:39

the right thing. But are

11:41

these accommodations actually helping autistic people? I

11:44

mean, case in point, our front desk

11:46

friend pointed us to an escape space down the

11:48

hall where one could presumably go if

11:50

they were experiencing sensory overload. That

11:53

sounds like a good accommodation. You would

11:55

think that, Roman. Except... Sorry,

12:00

sorry. OK,

12:02

so we're in the we're in the toilet

12:04

right now. We're in the sensory room, which

12:06

is also the toilet. Just to drive this

12:08

home, the escape space for people

12:11

experiencing sensory overload is the accessible

12:13

bathroom. Cool. How

12:16

big is the space? This is my wingspan,

12:18

so six feet. Six feet. About six feet.

12:20

All right. All right. Six

12:22

square foot space. OK. And

12:24

one seating opportunity. A

12:27

toilet. I should put the feet out. Without a

12:29

back. So you can't make a rest. No. When

12:32

I think of calm spaces, a public

12:34

toilet isn't one of them. This

12:36

is not a room you would seek out

12:38

when you're not having a good time. Our

12:41

front desk friend wanted to be very

12:43

clear. Having the safe

12:46

space, calm space, be the

12:48

bathroom is not appropriate.

12:50

Thomas and I left the gallery

12:52

and headed outside for a little

12:54

art center post-mortem. Well,

12:57

see, now, if I go in there, right?

12:59

I love galleries. I love art galleries.

13:01

There's nothing in there that bothers me. It

13:04

was a very pleasant space. If there's

13:06

20 kids in there at the same

13:09

time, that might be a different situation.

13:11

I would say that if you're an

13:13

autistic adult, it's a totally

13:15

reasonable space. I

13:18

wouldn't ask them for their sensory kit. I

13:21

was going to say, if it's too loud for you, you

13:23

can get the earmuffs. You

13:26

can put on this sunglass. All

13:33

of this illustrates the challenge of what Visit

13:35

Mesa is trying to do. Educating

13:38

folks about autism is just the first

13:40

step. And Elio McCabe,

13:42

the disability rights lawyer, says local

13:44

businesses and organizations could go even

13:46

further. So

13:48

what that can look like

13:50

is dimmer switches, especially in

13:52

doctor's offices, where

13:54

you're already really stressed out and you don't

13:56

want those glaring fluorescent lights on you. Or

14:00

it can look like putting up tapestries

14:02

or things on the walls to dim

14:04

that big echoey noise. Let's

14:07

also pay attention to

14:10

the temperature, because radically

14:12

changing temperatures can really be

14:14

overwhelming for neurodivergent people. Some

14:18

community partners have put the education

14:20

component into practice. Two of

14:22

the city's museums posted sensory guides

14:24

on the walls, indicating how loud

14:27

or smelly or bright an exhibit

14:29

might be. One hotel

14:31

has adjusted its lobby lights to be more

14:33

friendly on the eyes. But

14:35

really, what businesses do with that

14:37

education is beyond Mark's purview. The

14:41

Mesa Project shows that there are limits

14:43

to retrofitting spaces to make them more

14:45

autism friendly. But there are

14:47

ways to accommodate neurodivergence before a

14:49

single nail is hammered. It starts

14:51

by integrating autistic needs into the

14:53

design process, and including autistic

14:56

people early on in the planning.

14:59

One architect's doing just that. So

15:03

my name is Magda Mustafa. I'm

15:06

a professor of design and

15:08

architecture for autism. I'm also a

15:11

practicing architect in the area of

15:13

architecture for autism. Magda's being

15:15

modest here. She's not only

15:18

a professor at the American University in

15:20

Cairo and the founder of an autism

15:22

and neuroinclusive architecture firm in Dubai, but

15:24

she's also one of the leading thinkers

15:26

on the intersection of autism and architecture.

15:29

Magda created the world's first set

15:31

of research-based design guidelines for autism.

15:34

And it all kind of happened by accident. So

15:37

it was the classical necessity of

15:39

the mother of invention. I was approached by

15:41

a group of parents who had

15:44

children on the spectrum, young children on

15:46

the spectrum were searching for an academic

15:48

educational space for their kids and weren't

15:50

finding something that felt like a good

15:52

fit for them. Now, it

15:54

is important to note at this point

15:56

Magda didn't have any experience with autism

15:58

personally or professionally. And I very

16:01

naively went out and said, okay, great, I'll

16:03

just look into the references and there will

16:05

be something in a chapter

16:08

between wheelchair accessibility and deaf space,

16:10

and I'll find a chapter on

16:12

autism, get the guidelines and standards,

16:14

apply them like a good student,

16:17

and we're golden. Oh, if only

16:19

it were that easy. 20

16:21

years ago, when these parents asked Magda

16:23

to design a school for their children,

16:26

there weren't any standards or best practices

16:28

for how to create space for autistic

16:30

folks. Autism was hardly even

16:32

talked about. Magda had no

16:34

reference points. So she created

16:36

them. I embedded myself

16:38

in the school for about a year and

16:41

a half, spent six months just observing and

16:43

making sure that the kids were comfortable with

16:45

me in their space. And

16:47

then we started just tweaking and playing around with

16:49

things and building as we go. And

16:52

observational work was critical to Magda's

16:54

process because she was getting a

16:56

sense of how the autistic kids

16:58

organically use space, what they

17:00

gravitated towards, what agitated them, what

17:03

prompted expressions of joy. For

17:05

example, when I sat in those

17:07

early classrooms and in those early homes and

17:10

saw kids reorganizing the sofa

17:12

cushions so they could tuck under it and

17:14

hide their head when the TV was on

17:16

or when their brother was munching their lunch

17:19

or whatever it was that was happening that

17:21

was annoying them acoustically, those moments

17:23

became what we call escape space.

17:26

Magda noticed how ingenious the students

17:28

were, curating spaces to take care

17:31

of themselves, to use

17:33

these findings to inform her design decisions.

17:35

I call it this autism as expertise

17:38

model. So what is the

17:40

expertise that this autistic body is bringing into

17:42

their own experience? How are they changing

17:44

their space? The architectural

17:46

tool Magda formalized based on her

17:48

observations is called Aspects.

17:51

That's what two S's of the end. It's an acronym. Sky!

17:58

A stands for Aspects. I

18:00

think that's pretty self-explanatory. It's

18:02

not about creating silent spaces, but

18:04

it's about allowing sound in an intentional way, not in

18:07

an accidental way. I'm

18:09

in a space! SC

18:13

stands for spatial, as in

18:15

spatial sequencing, which is

18:17

about working with routine, making

18:19

space predictable so you're

18:21

not jumping all over the place. All the

18:23

time you're moving seamlessly from one activity to

18:26

another to another in a sequence. Come

18:28

here, hey! What

18:31

were those escape spaces Magda was talking

18:33

about? Come here! It

18:36

doesn't know cheerleading. Fair.

18:38

Okay. So C stands

18:41

for compartmentalization, where you organize a

18:43

larger space, like a classroom, in two

18:45

smaller, discrete, and separate spaces. And

18:48

it's not about creating cubicles

18:50

or booths or partitions, but

18:53

it's about clustering like activities with

18:55

like activities. So like plush

18:57

carpeting and soft cushions distinguish an escape

18:59

space, whereas a

19:01

bookcase and a table with two chairs

19:04

and a quiet corner can delineate a

19:06

one-on-one workspace. The T is

19:08

for transition, like moving

19:10

from a loud overstimulating space to

19:12

a quiet focus space. The

19:15

least we can do is build in

19:17

a little bit of interstitial transition space,

19:20

that moment just for sensory regulation

19:22

for you to take a breath,

19:25

to readjust and to set yourself up

19:27

to be more successful when you enter that

19:29

next path. And finally,

19:31

the last two S's. There's

19:33

safety, which is obvious, then

19:36

sensory zoning. Basically meaning

19:38

that spaces should be designed based on their

19:40

sensory quality. So if we think of

19:42

a school design, a low-stimulus,

19:44

high-focus math classroom might go

19:47

next to a low-stimulus, high-focus

19:49

English classroom. High-stimulus

19:51

spaces like a music room or

19:53

a noisy cafeteria shouldn't be in

19:55

the same zone as the low-stimulus

19:57

rooms. specs

20:00

guidelines to my trip to Mesa,

20:02

the escape space at the art

20:04

center wouldn't be in a high

20:06

stimulus area like, say, the toilet.

20:08

Or, if you compartmentalize the cafe

20:11

Thomas and I visited, you might

20:13

get an area for quiet study

20:15

tucked off to one side with

20:17

no overhead lights or fans. And

20:20

it wouldn't just be neurodivergent people who

20:22

would benefit from thinking about design in

20:24

this way. There's

20:27

a name for this. It's called the

20:29

curb cut effect. It's when systems created

20:31

to benefit a vulnerable group end up

20:33

cascading to benefit everyone. Curb

20:36

cuts are great for wheelchair users,

20:38

but they're also a godsend for

20:40

folks pushing strollers or delivery carts.

20:43

Closed captioning is handy in a

20:45

loud sports bar and elevators in

20:47

the subway are very convenient for

20:49

anyone hauling oversized luggage. Now, unlike

20:51

curb cuts or Braille and public

20:54

spaces or other accommodations required by

20:56

the Americans with Disabilities Act, there

20:59

is no government mandate for

21:01

escape spaces or sensory zoning.

21:03

At least not yet. Still, there

21:05

are some new buildings that have been

21:08

intentionally designed with the autistic brain in

21:10

mind. Buildings that seem to

21:12

reflect Magda's aspects guidelines.

21:15

In 2019, the BBC opened

21:17

its brand new broadcasting house

21:19

in Cardiff, Wales. The architects

21:21

took neurodivergence into account when

21:23

designing the interior, meaning color

21:25

coded wayfinding, private quiet workspaces

21:28

and absolutely no flickering

21:30

overhead lights. And in 2020,

21:33

the new Medical University of South

21:35

Carolina opened its doors, aiming

21:37

to be one of the most autism

21:39

friendly hospitals in the US. Elements

21:42

of the hospital's neuro-inclusive

21:44

design include adjustable

21:47

lighting in patients rooms, private

21:49

play nooks in waiting areas, and

21:52

a lush rooftop garden perfect for

21:55

sensory seekers. But despite this

21:57

progress, Magda is wary that this type

21:59

of design could become

22:01

a sort of thoughtless, meaningless

22:03

trend. We have to

22:05

be careful that people don't

22:07

take the work that we're

22:09

trying to do around these

22:11

autism-friendly design guidance as box-ticking,

22:13

virtue-signaling tools. Right. Lip

22:16

service. Like, we put some lights on

22:18

a dimmer and ditch the noisy overhead fans.

22:21

Boom. Autism design solved.

22:24

But this type of design

22:26

isn't a one-size-fits-all situation or

22:28

a one-and-done. It's messy and

22:31

it's not easy, but it is

22:33

an opportunity to make spaces more

22:35

welcoming and inclusive. And

22:37

isn't that worth a little messiness? And

22:40

it's not just on designers and

22:42

architects and neurodivergent people themselves to

22:44

think about these things. It's also

22:46

the responsibility of city planners and

22:48

politicians to consider neuroinclusive designs both

22:51

indoors and out. Pedestrian

22:53

infrastructure, public space, how people physically move

22:55

from point A to point B, they

22:58

all need to be addressed. Right

23:00

now, we have a little

23:02

bit of traction in individual spaces

23:04

that are becoming aware, but I

23:06

always say they are islands of

23:08

accessibility and a sea of inaccessibility.

23:11

Recently, Magda was in New York City and

23:13

invited me to meet up with her at

23:15

one of those islands of accessibility, the

23:18

High Line, with the caveat that

23:20

it's a far from perfect model. The

23:22

High Line is the former elevated

23:25

railroad spur turned pedestrian trail and

23:27

linear park. The path hovers over

23:29

the streets and snakes its way

23:32

between high-end apartments, office buildings, and

23:34

a couple of hotels. The

23:37

first phase of the High Line opened in 2009,

23:39

and while it quickly

23:41

became one of Manhattan's most celebrated public

23:43

spaces, it's not without its critics. One

23:46

called the High Line a cattle shoot for

23:48

tourists. Others have rightfully noted

23:50

that the park has become a symbol

23:52

of New York City's rapid gentrification.

23:56

Why did you bring me to this outside space? I've

23:59

been thinking of about what

24:01

I do primarily in

24:03

indoor spaces can spill out and

24:06

generalize outside into city spaces too.

24:09

Because space, as Magda says, can't

24:11

be defined in a binary way,

24:14

either inside or outside. Rather, space

24:16

is more of a negotiation of

24:18

movement and flow and the transition

24:20

between in and out. Magda

24:23

and I met up at a segment of the High Line

24:25

set off to the side of the main trail. It

24:28

hangs a little more than a story over

24:30

the street and offers a little refuge from

24:32

the pedestrian traffic of the path. She

24:35

calls it the perch. If you're

24:37

overwhelmed and to get

24:39

that little minute to have a breather

24:42

and even just rest, sit down, take

24:44

a moment, I think it's really helpful,

24:46

but I just wish there was more of it. Are

24:49

there other spots along here

24:51

that feel to you like

24:53

they embody the principles

24:55

of your work? Like the whole

24:58

idea of having this parallel pathway

25:00

that's quieter, softer, has some landscape,

25:03

has some pockets of space that

25:05

you can retreat to, I

25:08

call it a sensory pathway. As

25:11

we walked, I asked Magda about the diversity

25:13

of materials used on the High Line. Part

25:15

of the path was metal, another part was

25:18

wood, and still another was concrete. But

25:21

it's cool because just from a visual

25:23

perspective, like you're not encountering the same

25:25

thing, it's not like an endless bridge

25:27

where you feel like, oh my god,

25:29

it'll never end. It

25:32

breaks it up and compartmentalizes it. Oh,

25:34

there you go. Explain

25:36

further. So, like breaking things

25:38

up into these little sensory zones that

25:40

are manageable, I'm certain that that wasn't

25:43

the intent, but it just gives you

25:45

a sense of domain and boundary. So

25:47

the High Line sort of accidentally hit

25:50

some of Magda's aspects design goals.

25:53

What about from a sound perspective,

25:55

acoustics, up here, like

25:57

you can hear the city, but It's

26:00

like at a remove. Right, like we're just

26:02

walking by this tree. The nature just softens

26:04

it really nicely. I think all the natural

26:06

elements do a good job once you get

26:08

to a place where there's wood and

26:10

that absorbs a little bit more sound than the metal

26:13

part. Even

26:17

if it was inadvertent at the High

26:19

Line, you could definitely see autism-friendly design

26:21

in action. Well, minus the

26:23

tourists. So designing for

26:26

neuro differences indoors and out

26:28

is indeed possible. Magda

26:30

and her contemporaries who think about

26:32

inclusive architecture are just barely scratching

26:34

the surface of autism-friendly design. There's

26:37

so much more to dream up. After

26:41

the break, Lauren takes us to

26:43

the future of neurodivergent-friendly design. Okay.

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30:34

back with journalist Lauren Ober on her

30:37

quest to find autism Pleasantville. Or,

30:39

you know, something like it. Okay,

30:42

we're about to head into some pretty

30:44

conceptual territory, so bear with me.

30:47

Basically, if you can design both

30:49

indoor and outdoor spaces to

30:52

be neuro-friendly, then it stands

30:54

to reason that you might just be able

30:56

to design a whole city using the same

30:58

principles. And I'm not the only

31:00

one who believes that. In my

31:02

practice, I focus on how

31:05

public spaces can support everyone

31:08

in a more inclusive way. Bryony

31:11

Roberts is an architect in New

31:13

York City. She and Lindsay Harkima

31:15

are partners in the Feminist Design

31:17

Collective, WIP Collaborative.

31:20

We came together about three years ago to

31:23

work on design and research projects

31:25

that focus on

31:27

community engagement and

31:30

really thinking about the ways that

31:32

public spaces can be more equitable. They're

31:35

currently working on a project

31:37

called the Neurodiverse City, which

31:39

reimagines New York City's public

31:41

spaces, but streets, playgrounds, plazas

31:43

to better support neurodiversity. Public

31:46

spaces are typically designed

31:48

in a way that is quite

31:50

passive, and they're sort of neutral,

31:53

generic, you know, kind of

31:55

a one-size-fits-all. But it's

31:57

more like one-size-fits-some. So

32:00

some often mean cisgender, white,

32:03

male, able-bodied, and neurotypical.

32:06

You know, the default. So

32:08

Lindsay and Bryony are working with

32:10

autistic self-advocates to document their observations

32:13

about what's working and what's not working

32:15

for them in public spaces. Like

32:18

Magda's autism as expertise idea.

32:21

Some lessons repeatedly bubbled up. Over

32:24

and over again we heard about the need for choice, that

32:27

the neutrality of public spaces doesn't offer

32:29

any choice in terms of a range

32:32

of sensory stimulation. So that if

32:35

someone is seeking more stimulation, whether

32:37

it's tactile, visual, auditory, there's very

32:39

little opportunity for that kind of

32:42

engagement. And then if we're seeking

32:44

less stimulation, there's also very few

32:46

places to find respite and

32:49

peace. Neurodiversity

32:55

was inspired by the pair's previous

32:57

project. A little sidewalk park called

32:59

Restorative Ground that they designed and

33:02

installed during the pandemic. It

33:04

was in New York City's Hudson Square

33:06

and definitely did not cater to the

33:08

default. We thought

33:10

about creating different zones

33:13

within the installation that

33:15

would have different spatial

33:17

characteristics in order

33:19

to support the idea of choice. The

33:23

80 foot long electric orange and

33:25

red structure built on top of

33:27

the sidewalk had built in tables

33:29

and benches, geometric structures that encouraged

33:31

play and a hammock that provided

33:33

some excellent midday napping opportunities. The

33:36

park was an active environment, meaning

33:38

it invited passers-by to engage with

33:40

it. It was the opposite of

33:43

a blank passive sidewalk. Also

33:46

it was a stark contrast to the

33:48

hostile public spaces Bryony navigated with her

33:50

dad after he was diagnosed with ALS.

33:53

Kind of moving through the world with him made

33:55

it really clear how powerful space can be in

33:58

offering comfort. or escape

34:00

or connection to other people

34:03

and how architecture can

34:05

really offer a transformative opportunity

34:08

to improve quality of life. If

34:11

you take their restorative ground project, that

34:14

structure welcomed all kinds of users to engage

34:16

with the space in all kinds of ways,

34:19

resting, climbing, lunching, et

34:21

cetera. It was

34:23

multifunctional and intentional because

34:26

people have different needs and

34:28

the look and feel of the built environment

34:31

should be just as diverse as all

34:33

of the human identities that are served by

34:35

it. Lindsay

34:41

and Briany haven't built their neurodiverse

34:43

city yet, but that's not quite

34:46

the goal. Right now, they're focused

34:48

on understanding how autistic people use

34:50

public space. And they're hopeful that

34:52

other architects, designers and city planners

34:55

see the necessity of understanding this

34:57

too. This autistic

34:59

person just wants some calm escape spaces

35:01

that aren't, you know, the accessible

35:03

toilet. I am sure they will

35:05

take that under advisement. And maybe

35:07

one day, Lauren will get her autism

35:10

pleasant veil and it will dovetail with

35:12

someone else's perfectly designed space and

35:15

the curb cut effect will in fact

35:17

be in effect. And everyone will have

35:19

the space that works for them. Let's

35:21

not get carried away, Roman. The

35:26

reality is that there is no universal principle of design that

35:28

will work for the entire autistic population. But

35:31

architects like Briany Roberts and Lindsay Harkima

35:36

and Magna Mustafa are inching

35:38

the autistic ball up the field. Sure, the autism awareness

35:41

endeavor in Mesa might be incomplete, but it leads to

35:43

the recognition that

35:46

there is a discreet community and

35:48

that community deserves to be accommodated

35:53

because all of us, neurodivergent or not, are a

35:55

messy jumble sale of needs. So

35:57

is my neurodivergent. neurodivergent

36:00

Xanadu just around the corner? I

36:03

think so. But at

36:05

least we're in the mix, having conversations

36:07

about lights that don't flicker and rooms

36:10

that don't echo. 99%

36:27

Invisible was reported this week by Lauren

36:29

Ober and produced and edited by Nina

36:31

Pottuck. Mix and sound design by

36:33

Martin Gonzalez. Music by Swan

36:36

Rial. Fact checking by Liz Boyd.

36:38

Kathy Tu is our executive producer.

36:40

Kurt Kholstedt is the digital director.

36:42

Delaney Hall is the senior editor.

36:45

The rest of the team includes

36:47

Chris Barrupe, Jason DeLeon, Emmett Fitzgerald,

36:49

Christopher Johnson, Vivian Lay, Losh Madone,

36:51

Joe Rosenberg, Gabriela Gladney, Kelly Prime,

36:53

Jacob Maldonado-Medina, Sarah Bake, and me,

36:56

Roman Mars. The 99%

36:58

Invisible logo was created by Stefan Lawrence.

37:01

We are part of the Stitcher and

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Sirius XM podcast family, now headquartered six

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blocks north in the Pandora

37:07

building in beautiful uptown

37:10

Oakland, California. Some

37:12

of the Oakland Roots Soccer Club, of which I

37:14

am a proud community owner. Other

37:16

teams may come and go, but the Roots

37:19

are Oakland first, always. You

37:21

can find us on all the usual social media sites,

37:23

as well as our new Discord server. It's very fun

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over there. I encourage you to join. There's a link

37:28

to that, as well as every past episode of 99PI

37:30

at 99pi.org. Hit

37:46

record on your voice memo now,

37:48

and it's going to be A,

37:50

S, P, and E. Give me

37:52

an A! A. We're

37:56

going to do a second sentence. I think it was muted

37:58

besides Kelly, which is basically the most hilarious. I

38:00

was like, why is everyone

38:02

laughing? Have

38:07

you ever told a friend? Oh, I'm

38:10

fine. When you really felt...

38:12

Just so overwhelmed. Or

38:15

sent a text. Can't sleep.

38:17

Are you awake? When you couldn't find

38:20

the words to say. I'm scared

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to be alone with my thoughts right now. Then

38:24

this is your sign to reach out to the

38:27

988 Lifeline for 24-7 free confidential support. You

38:31

don't have to hide how you feel. Text,

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call, or chat anytime.

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