0:00

This episode is brought to you by Progressive, where

0:02

drivers who save by switching save nearly $750 on

0:04

average. Plus,

0:07

auto customers qualify for an average

0:09

of seven discounts. Quote now at

0:11

progressive.com to see if you could

0:13

save. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company &

0:15

Affiliates. National average 12-month savings of

0:17

$744 by new customers surveyed who

0:19

saved with Progressive between June 2022

0:21

and May 2023. Potential

0:24

savings will vary. Discounts not available in

0:26

all states and situations. We

0:31

all love to treat ourself every now and

0:33

then, right? Like go out and buy a

0:35

nice coffee, maybe get a little extra leg

0:37

room on the plane. Then why, why, why

0:39

are we always settling for doctors? Your health

0:42

is the most important thing. That's where ZocTalk

0:44

comes in. ZocTalk is a free app and

0:46

website where you can search and compare highly

0:48

rated in-network doctors near you and instantly book

0:50

appointments with them online. You know how I

0:53

feel about making phone calls. And that is

0:55

why I discovered ZocTalk many years ago before

0:57

I even had a podcast. And so I'm

0:59

thrilled. This feels very full circle. I use

1:01

ZocTalk all the time in LA. I still

1:03

use them here in Cincinnati. It's just such

1:05

a cool service to be able to put

1:08

in your insurance and find a doctor for

1:10

whatever your ailment might be. I actually found

1:12

an ENT doctor once when I had this

1:14

sinus infection, probably TMI. But anyway, I love

1:16

ZocTalk. I've loved it for years. And the

1:18

typical wait time to see a doctor booked

1:20

on ZocTalk is between just 24 to 72

1:22

hours. That's how

1:24

easy it is. Sometimes they even have

1:26

same-day appointments. I know I've gotten some

1:28

in the past. Go to zoctalk.com/drink and

1:30

download the ZocTalk app for free.

1:32

Then find and book a top-rated

1:34

doctor today. That's

1:37

zocdoc.com/drink. zoctalk.com/drink.

1:53

Hello, everyone. Welcome to And That's

1:55

Why We Drink, a

1:57

paranormal true crime podcast. I'm Christine

2:02

I am having a good hair day, but I'm

2:04

having a bad chin day because I Got

2:07

me a little how does one have a bad? Oh A

2:09

blemish I see you know where I had a blemish the other day.

2:11

I had a gigantic zit inside

2:13

my ear. Oh I've

2:16

had him Raw yeah,

2:18

I almost went back and told the doctor that I

2:20

had pierced my eardrum again, and he was Blaze

2:24

was like that's a pimple Have

2:26

you ever this is anyway? Have you ever? Gotten

2:31

is it in your ear, and you

2:33

heard it and fucking surround sound pop

2:36

Yeah, oh yeah, that's crazy. I'm

2:38

always amazed. Yeah, even if it's gross. I'm

2:40

like that's just it's kind of shocking I

2:43

knew I couldn't tell my mom because she'd try to

2:45

get her little Grovel fingers in there, and I was

2:47

like don't touch me I would also I

2:49

if you ever need a sit on the road. I

2:51

will absolutely get it for him for you Oh my

2:54

god, my life away thinking about it We're

2:57

so sick. Hello everyone Today

3:00

to talk to you and about

3:02

all the reasons that we drink right em

3:05

That's true. You are giving vibes

3:07

like you want to drink a lot for some reason do you

3:10

have I do? No,

3:12

not really. I just I think it's just Monday

3:14

And you know you think like once you have

3:16

a job where it's like your own job that

3:19

Mondays aren't like a thing like Mondays But

3:22

I don't know I think I think there's

3:25

just a collective societal Monday energy. That's seeping

3:27

into my brain. You know But

3:31

I hope it sounds like you're doing okay. I mean I hopped

3:33

on and you were like Complementing me

3:35

left and right and I was I was

3:37

just taken aback I think my

3:39

therapist would say I was maybe fishing

3:42

for somebody to give me a compliment back. Oh

3:45

Well, I already know you're fishing in the wrong spot.

3:47

No. I'm kidding There

3:50

I I cannot see your hair because your cameras a little

3:52

blurry, but when you said you were having good hair day

3:55

I was like oh god. I got to take a look

3:57

at em kiro Right

4:00

on my hair. Looks you. Can

4:03

layers She's like she's got. She's

4:05

hurls perfectly, plays the she's like

4:07

she's messy find like I look

4:10

like may. Be I've a bad boy but

4:12

but you don't like it is that I actually am

4:14

a good boy. Yeah.

4:17

Is. Oh to

4:19

the good parts I can't determine your you know

4:21

the up the rest. But the good part. More.

4:24

I feel like it's like a someone saw me in a

4:27

coffee. Shop the to my hand go. They. Look

4:29

like they know how to have a little fun. You.

4:31

Know a yeah okay. Yeah.

4:33

You do not a kick that is for

4:36

sure if there's one thing I know about

4:38

you that your hair doesn't agree. I am

4:40

loving the puzzled look that looks intentional that.

4:42

Not. Intentional. You know it's like is it her

4:45

looks good to the you take care of it

4:47

but not like because you obsess over like did

4:49

I take a nap or did. I use

4:51

products will. Never know it's like or

4:53

or was she born with it. Maybe

4:55

it's maybelline. You know that I could.

4:57

The lady current thirty of the above

4:59

saying to Gaillard that I was so

5:01

incredibly I'm very I'm a affection starved

5:04

these. Days. Because a House and Desist nowhere

5:06

to be found, she's still coconut with the

5:08

products or something and the Amazon. so. Was.

5:12

Ah, I've noticed my

5:14

compliments others has heightens. probably because

5:16

I'm I'm desperate to. Feel some

5:18

yeah I don't know your your terms

5:20

of endearment some toward me have increased.

5:22

I've also noticed your high pitched squealing

5:25

has increased when I'm around on. I

5:27

did say that when did I become

5:29

the replacement for or the stand in

5:31

for else and M M's and responded

5:33

well I think I'll send them a

5:35

replacement or the sand and for you

5:37

And I was like oh my god

5:39

that's so deep. And. I mean

5:41

if I've I've known you longer so

5:44

I guess side. By. Timeline standards.

5:46

She is the stand and. And.

5:49

I will never let anybody forget it. I

5:53

have a question: why do you drink this week

5:55

my friends. Both. Ah,

5:58

and friends or. Stop! I'm

6:01

trying so hard. I

6:03

know it's not natural for you. I understand.

6:06

No, it is. I just, it's not

6:08

natural on a Monday. Yeah,

6:10

yeah, yeah. Well, to

6:13

be fair, usually I think I have

6:16

a case of the Mondays as badly as you, but

6:18

I, for

6:21

some reason this weekend, I did

6:23

a lot of, like,

6:25

work. I feel like I never actually had a

6:27

weekend, so that's in its own way

6:29

a bad thing, but that also means that today doesn't feel

6:32

like Monday. It feels like a Friday or something, so. Got

6:34

it. You're like, oh, got all this work behind

6:36

me. Like, I'm already like, it's rock and roll.

6:39

It's hump day, essentially, for me. I'm like, we've

6:41

already been doing this, so I'm in the, kind

6:43

of in the zone, but good for

6:46

you. One of the reasons I, I

6:51

just feel very overwhelmed at

6:54

this damn cruise, which I saw

6:56

coming from a mile away, because

6:59

anyone who has ever had to travel

7:02

with their adult parents

7:05

knows how it is. I,

7:07

it's, I feel like, okay,

7:10

so I

7:12

think this cruise only happened because I have

7:15

reminisced so many times with my mom about how

7:17

much I missed, like, I was, like,

7:19

a cruise kid. I, I know what

7:22

that means these days. It's, like, not very friendly

7:24

at all to the environment, but

7:27

I remember it does have, like, some sort

7:29

of nostalgia factor for me of, like, all

7:32

the vacations we took and all the places we got to see

7:34

because of it, and so I would think I was just reminiscing

7:36

with my mom a little too close to the sun, and

7:38

she went, oh, well, we're going to do it again, and

7:40

now I'm realizing in the thick of it that a cruise

7:43

with her when I was a child and she

7:45

was in charge of everything

7:48

and I wasn't really expected

7:50

to do anything is

7:52

a lot different than me as an adult

7:54

having to deal with all of her, like,

7:56

panicked, overcomplicated texts about how things might be.

7:59

Wait, so, like, what The complex part like

8:01

is it like planning activities as

8:03

it like payment schedule that. What's

8:05

the balance? Like overwhelming. My.

8:07

Mom I will say she has done

8:09

a lot of. Things.

8:12

He's done a lot of the planning on her

8:14

own behind closed doors. I really can't complain too

8:16

much, but the parts that have seeped into my

8:18

tax conversations with her. Are just like

8:21

I can't get a damn straight answer Add a her.

8:23

I mean it's the same thing about like if I

8:25

were playing like go to the park with her the

8:27

same things like an example as. It's

8:30

just like but by ten So I

8:32

texted heard I said do you fly

8:35

back the same day. We get off the ship.

8:37

I was trying to figure out my own plans. I only

8:39

ask that one question. Do. You fly back

8:41

the same day we get off the ship. She.

8:43

Say. A. Wall Of Sound. Like

8:45

by the way, this could have been. This

8:48

could have been a yes or no. Such a way. Yes,

8:50

I know, non profit. Every detail speaking

8:52

to her with dousing rather a pendulum so

8:54

that the limits. heard about that military as

8:57

like yes know cause it's only if you

8:59

want So annoying is one day when she

9:01

passes and I try to use as inroads

9:03

they just won't work and so wanna send

9:06

me sampling this civilian dragging you around with

9:08

the dowsing rod of like trying to get

9:10

to the do serve it is so I

9:12

think this is just brought out leg. A

9:15

panicked version of her because I have been.

9:17

I gotta say at the top of that

9:19

like she's. I. Think she's

9:21

a stretch to send because she's been doing a

9:23

lot of us by herself, but also if she.

9:26

I think the whole family understands us. I try to help

9:28

or planned. That I to make the cut since there's

9:30

only so much we can do is gonna have

9:32

to watch herself get to this place and now

9:34

this is the aftermath of it. But. I

9:37

said do fly back the same day as the

9:39

ship as we lands are as big an officer.

9:42

And. She said remember your passport, the

9:44

boat has to dress your best

9:46

nights. It was called informal and

9:48

the past I'm selling Tom to

9:50

bring a sport coat. I think

9:52

they might have a Caribbean night

9:54

I have here. It is. One.

9:57

Fun dress to baby doll afternoon

9:59

or. dress, two pair

10:01

of flowing pants. She listed

10:03

her every single thing she

10:05

packed. Why? Why? She went,

10:08

I brought two workout outfits and three pairs of

10:10

shorts. I brought three bathing suits.

10:14

You do not wear flowy pants,

10:16

capris, summer dresses, cocktail

10:18

dresses. I like I

10:20

don't understand like why would she share that with

10:23

you specifically when like A you didn't ask, but

10:25

B like what are you supposed to do

10:27

with that information? I guess is what I wonder. Well,

10:30

that's funny, isn't it? Because then she talks

10:32

about how she packed a white and black

10:34

windbreaker specifically. And then she said, we're going

10:36

to go out to dinner. And I saw

10:38

some live camera shots from people and it

10:40

looks like a lot of people are casual

10:42

after dinner. Then like, and she did the

10:44

thing where like there's multiple dots and random

10:46

commas and like she pressed and I think

10:48

it's about cruise critic.com because

10:51

these kind of conversations happen there and

10:53

there are people there who want to

10:55

know what you're bringing to wear and

10:57

what they want to know what your

10:59

schedule is and your itinerary and they

11:01

will answer the most inane questions. So

11:03

all your health under there, all you'd

11:05

be saying is that there's more eyes

11:07

for this information and not, but at

11:09

least they're not your eyes. You know,

11:11

no, no, it would just be more eyes

11:14

like it'd be my eyes and other. So then

11:16

she wants to be fair. Once she realizes

11:18

that like they're really engaged and want

11:20

to, yeah, you're going to renew that

11:22

conversation. Maybe she'll like drift toward that

11:24

and be like, they're a better audience. You

11:26

know, you know how parents will

11:29

say like, just, just a sprawl

11:31

of sentences that are not strung

11:33

together because she talks about the

11:36

windbreaker. She

11:38

brings up that the lot, there's live

11:40

camera shots of people dressing casual, which

11:42

yes, they're on fucking vacation. And

11:45

then she said, uh, uh, hang

11:48

out very casual after dinner. Crewships normally

11:50

have meetings for alcoholics. Okay.

11:52

I don't care about that. You

11:55

Don't even drink alcohol. This is what I'm saying.

11:57

Like, it just feels like, I understand if it

11:59

were like, Hey. the just pack like to who?

12:01

nicer outfits like this is. Unworkable either. But

12:03

like. Or

12:06

targets. For code that would be good if reason

12:08

for you and it's that's what you unaware. but the

12:10

rest of it is hysterical. like. A

12:13

good she tried to do the thing where she rose leg.

12:15

Super ally, but than just kind of like. Put.

12:17

Her nose and play that were like I

12:19

necessary, not not not a bad way, but

12:21

she was. She listed the alcoholics group. In

12:23

case any to go there and then she

12:25

said or it's but she didn't have had.

12:27

Half of a sentence or she said. Get.

12:29

Togethers for Singles and Lgbtq which makes you

12:32

think she was searching. That and an accent.

12:34

We ended up here. Oh absolutely. And

12:37

then she said. Not sure about bringing

12:39

poncho. that's how it and see goes. Alcoholics

12:42

L Didn't you say you never and time

12:44

for lesson? Is that true? That's

12:46

very true Trade Center. And

12:52

so long. So. I just stopped

12:54

trying. I was like you know what? we're going out.

12:57

And. I'll find out you around slap next.

13:01

I. Did. I said of as.

13:04

I said. it's amazing how quickly and abruptly

13:06

we turn. Into our Mothers because that's

13:08

exactly the tax you would have complained

13:10

about her mom sending her ten years

13:12

ago. A nice view, but you mean

13:14

Linda as turning in their. Site.

13:18

Like I owe my whole life my mom

13:20

and be a lake. I just my street

13:23

fucking answer and she just gonna give me

13:25

an itinerary, have everything she ate today or

13:27

everything she's wearing out of his passes were

13:29

and eight weeks package and my mom and.

13:31

She did the exact same thing and so. I'm.

13:34

Just again owner of a to the like like army. Fucking

13:37

paragraph about your wardrobe. I can't wait.

13:39

I'm actually gonna love it. I think.

13:42

I. Can. Anyway,

13:46

So. Yeah, it's I'm just a little nervous. Because

13:48

now feels like I might be going on occurs. With

13:50

my. Grandmother. And

13:52

like I gotta say, I think my mom

13:55

is just very excited about the trip

13:57

and just like I get it but

13:59

at the same. My girl like

14:01

how do you like the call is

14:03

coming from inside the house. You are

14:05

doing exactly what a it's bike. And

14:07

like are still do the thing all the

14:09

time or she calls me. To.

14:11

I think every person. Site.

14:14

Times kind of once a kid. Just as they

14:16

can complain about. Their parents while they do the

14:18

exact same thing their parents are doing. man. Official

14:21

Call me Just say. Oh

14:23

your grandmother She just won't get off the phone.

14:25

I I tell her I have five minutes and

14:27

she will give me an hour and a half

14:29

and are not allowed to leave and she does

14:32

the exact same thing. So call me, go in

14:34

and and then you're doing I'm working. She's like

14:36

okay anyway I will tell you about my caprice

14:38

as I just I feel like I'm in like

14:40

a warp or something like some sort of time

14:42

soccer I'm like and my just as the some

14:44

big prank. So

14:47

I. See recently

14:49

I'm. One of the

14:51

thanks to my grandma always does Never we

14:54

go to her house. first thing she does

14:56

as she makes us take a tour of

14:58

her clothes. father. Every. Time Oh my

15:00

god because every time she is organized it differently

15:02

than the last time we were there and so

15:04

now we have policy where she put her shoes

15:06

and where she puts the fancy dress summers but

15:08

the castles and I just went home. Recently.

15:11

And the first thing my mom did was come upstairs.

15:14

let me show you how you organize the closet and

15:16

I would ah hitting me I was. Single

15:19

and but as well as Isis a

15:21

moment. What if she starts? Instead of

15:24

looking for Alcoholics Anonymous on the boat,

15:26

she's like the for the she just

15:28

feels like cities. Another crisis. Group

15:30

because assistance is real. That

15:32

she's com word. This is an intervention.

15:35

You know? How was our they're not

15:37

bigger groups of people. Just reconciling with

15:39

the fact that they're turning into their parents. You

15:41

know? I. Would love agree our

15:43

therapy about that. I think that's just

15:45

any one in a group like and.

15:48

Problem of of leaks insists also add

15:50

on have verbal enough to say I

15:52

am excited to be on a cruise

15:55

with her but I am just like.

15:57

it's it's like all of the similarities

15:59

or both coming at me all

16:01

at once. So... Smacking you in the face,

16:03

it sounds like. Yeah, which means now, like,

16:05

I'm forced to take on the role of

16:07

becoming her, where I get annoyed by all

16:10

this stuff, just... Then you have kids, I'm

16:12

just gonna repress it all and

16:14

just project it back onto them. I also know

16:16

that, like, one of your favorite hobbies when you're

16:18

really stressed is that you organize all your shoes

16:20

into your fancy dress. And so,

16:22

I feel like the stress is just gonna come

16:24

out with a tour of your closet when

16:26

I come to LA in a couple weeks. And I... Honestly,

16:29

it's okay. It's okay. When

16:32

I do get stressed, I do like to organize, but

16:34

it has not gone into my clothing yet. So... But

16:37

that'll be the first red flag. And then when I start telling

16:39

people about it... That'll be what I know.

16:42

That's what I need to know. I'll know and I'll

16:44

need to step in somehow. I don't know how yet,

16:46

but I'll think about it and I'll plan it. But

16:49

I think you're gonna have a wonderful time. You leave

16:51

in a couple days, right? As of recording. I

16:53

do. I leave... I leave... We have one

16:55

more recording after this and I leave after

16:57

that. Okay, you leave

16:59

Thursday or something? Okay. Wednesday. Wow.

17:03

Well, I think you're gonna have a great time. I know

17:06

we'll have a good time. I'm just kind

17:08

of scared about also being with my mom

17:10

for that long because we have a rule

17:12

on how much time we can spend together before

17:14

one of us is gonna kill the other. And

17:17

it's like tripled that amount of time. So if

17:21

I don't make it back, it's because I

17:23

made one comment too many about her damn

17:25

closet and I didn't make it. You

17:28

were forced to disembark in some island

17:31

nation. I walked the plank. Yeah. Yeah, you

17:33

walked the plank. What about

17:35

you? Why do you drink? Oh, gosh. Well,

17:37

I... You know, we're far enough in.

17:39

I don't want to even go into my thing. I'm

17:41

gonna say it on when we record in a couple of

17:43

days. I don't want to talk for a million years. I

17:46

don't know. Is

17:48

it that lengthy? Well,

17:50

it's about the psychic... Okay, I'll just say it. I went

17:52

to the psychic convention yesterday and we talked about it. You

17:54

have to talk about it. Okay, I think it

17:57

was at the end. It's at least on brand. for

18:00

the podcast, so it's not like totally off the wall.

18:03

But I went to the psychic convention with

18:05

my really good friend Celine

18:07

and my other friend, but

18:09

her sister Sophia and Celine's

18:11

partner Nick. And we did

18:14

a little road trip up to the spectacular,

18:16

as the website called it, Sherenvale Convention Center.

18:18

And if you missed this Intel, by the

18:20

way, folks, M and I talked about it

18:23

on an After Hours, which I've been

18:25

trying to name After Dark. We'll see if it

18:27

sticks. And M helped

18:30

me create an entire itinerary of

18:32

all the events that were happening,

18:34

right? On the different

18:36

stages and all that. So it

18:39

turns out we didn't really do many of

18:41

the events, like the actual stage talks, because

18:44

they were like completely in a different part

18:46

of the convention center. And there were hundreds

18:48

of booths of like tarot readers and like,

18:51

Oh, so you had fun. And or photography,

18:53

like it was just like so much stuff

18:55

that like, by the time you

18:58

got through to a certain area, you were

19:00

like, Oh, I've missed the whole talk. But

19:02

there was one time we decided to go

19:05

have a snack downstairs. It's really funny, because

19:07

when I told my mom I was going

19:09

to the Sherenvale Convention Center, she

19:11

was like to buy a gun, because this

19:13

is where they host all the gun shows,

19:15

right? Like in Ohio, it's just like a

19:17

big ass convention center in in like suburban

19:19

Ohio. And so I was

19:21

like, Yes, mother, I'm going. But

19:23

no, I'm going to a psychic fair. It's like the

19:26

opposite end of the spectrum, I guess. And

19:29

so I went up

19:31

there and it was so

19:33

we were they have this like cafe.

19:35

And I assume this is not the

19:37

name of it normally, but they called

19:39

it the mandala cafe. And I'm like,

19:41

I imagine when the NRA is hosting

19:43

this, it's not called the mandala cafe.

19:45

But then the sign said, it's

19:48

called bullseye saloon. I'm shit.

19:51

Sports room. Plus, yes. No

19:56

women ever allowed. Meet

19:58

only. Yeah, it's no

20:01

vegans allowed. I just I can't

20:03

imagine what that would be like.

20:05

But we went and it was

20:08

like kind of expensive. So we went downstairs and this

20:10

little food court and this guy we're sitting there like

20:12

eating a snack and this guy comes on he's like,

20:14

Hey, I'm about to give this presentation. If

20:16

you want to like just pop in right here

20:18

and we had wanted to see something and so

20:20

I said, Okay, yeah, we'll pop in. And I

20:22

said, Hey, I have this like reading booked for

20:24

330. So we're gonna

20:26

have to leave in about 20 minutes. And the guy's like, Oh,

20:28

that's fine. Why don't you just come in? We walk in there's

20:30

like one there's one other person in the

20:33

room and we it's like boy, it's like a big speaker

20:35

stage thing. It's like a picture

20:37

where we did our first live show at crime con,

20:39

right? There's one person one person there.

20:41

And so the three of us at

20:44

this point, we all go sit

20:46

down in the second row. And

20:49

there's this guy in the corner where who's with

20:51

the speaker and he looks like security, but he's

20:53

wearing all red. And we're like, this is weird.

20:55

Why does this guy need security? So

20:58

we're sitting there and like the presentation starts.

21:01

And he says, the first is a picture of a

21:03

pill bottle. And the first light and it says,

21:06

medication all it says all medications

21:08

are basically poison. I have a

21:11

picture of it. And I have

21:13

that's odd. And

21:15

so it's a slippery slope. It's a

21:17

slippery slope, isn't it? And in the voodoo world,

21:20

isn't it? But do you know, but do

21:22

you know where we're going? Like, like, I mean, I'm like,

21:25

big pit stop. I

21:28

assume vaccines or healing hands or some

21:30

shit. Is this chiropractic care? What?

21:33

No. No. What?

21:35

No, worse. Worse. What? I

21:37

can't imagine. What is this? What? Next

21:40

slide. If you want to learn

21:42

more about this, you should read Elrond Hubbard's book, Clear

21:44

Body Clear Mind. We have it up at our booth

21:46

upstairs. And we went and Celine

21:48

and I, growing up Scientology was

21:51

like our fucking obsession.

21:53

Like we, we researched it

21:55

like pre internet days. Like we were obsessed. We would

21:57

call, we'd be like, what are you guys even? We

22:00

didn't do in there. We would take the personality

22:02

quizzes. They've been waiting this whole time to get

22:04

you back. I know. We finally,

22:06

under one roof, got to see one presentation

22:08

and the guy goes, Elrond

22:12

Hubbard, our leader, or our great prophet.

22:14

And I'm like, you have got to

22:16

be kidding me. So Celine and I

22:18

are doing that thing where we're grabbing

22:20

each other's legs or arms, just like,

22:22

is this really happening? Oh, yes. The

22:24

Christine claw. I love her. The

22:26

Christine claw. But there's only three of us. There's four

22:28

people in the audience and we're three of them. So

22:30

he's like, and we're like, oh

22:33

my God. Oh my God. And then

22:35

he goes, yeah, even Tylenol is poison

22:38

for your body. It's just like so

22:40

inane, right? And

22:42

he goes, I bet you guys won't get this

22:44

question, right? Do you think too much oxygen can

22:47

kill you? Raise your hand. And we were like,

22:49

I mean, yeah. And

22:51

he goes, well, it is

22:53

true. And we were like, I know that's

22:55

why we raise our hand, you weirdo. Like,

22:57

of course you can die from like, I

22:59

don't understand your argument that too much so

23:01

too much Tylenol can kill you. So

23:04

just like oxygen. So at this

23:06

point where you just like cancel my plans,

23:09

we just I just have to experience all this.

23:12

I know. I have a fuck to get out of here.

23:14

We were like, we're leaving. This is insane. And

23:16

also like so boring. Like it wasn't

23:18

even like funny or fun. Like it

23:20

wasn't even enjoyable in that way, like

23:22

in an ironic way. And

23:24

so as we were getting up, we

23:27

were like, OK, thank you. I like ran away. But

23:29

he knew we were leaving already. And

23:31

then we get out there and Nick goes, did

23:33

you see that guy in the red in the

23:36

corner? And I was like, yeah. And he's like,

23:38

you didn't see his shirt. And I said, no,

23:40

apparently he was wearing like Dianetic security on his

23:42

shirt and hat. And I was like, this guy's

23:44

fucking security guard. And I'm like, who let these

23:46

people in here on a prime slot 3 p.m.

23:48

to do this fucking talk? But

23:51

thank God, like there was only one person left in there.

23:53

And I just thought like, wow, they really. And then there

23:55

were a few. There were a couple of booths

23:57

that were absolutely slippery slopes where it was like.

24:00

the truth about vaccines and

24:02

like cancer from 5g

24:07

you know but we can heal it with our hands you know

24:09

that kind of shit and so there

24:11

was definitely some icky kind of like the

24:13

hand yeah you gotta go in there that

24:15

sharp you gotta go in their prime yes

24:18

sharp a hundred percent and so thank God we

24:20

were and we were all like we have enough wits about

24:22

us to be like this

24:24

is not it there was like Hari Krishna there were

24:26

so many groups not so many but there were like

24:28

a couple where we were like okay we would text

24:30

each other like avoid 607 by

24:32

the way that was my entology booth and the

24:35

one and the other one that was the other

24:37

issue that I felt really weird about even when

24:39

I went to bed last night I just felt

24:41

kind of disappointed and it's not that the event

24:44

was bad I actually had a really good time

24:46

and like met some

24:48

really cool people and bought some really cool

24:50

chachkas as we discussed but the thing that

24:53

bummed me out was the number of old

24:55

white men called like white

24:58

feather and then they were like

25:00

I'm from Belgium and I'm like

25:02

what you know and I'm not in

25:04

a place obviously to determine

25:07

by looks whether somebody comes from an indigenous

25:09

background like that is not what I'm saying

25:11

but there were several people where I would

25:13

then look them up and it was like

25:15

you could you know and it's like okay

25:17

Cindy you shouldn't

25:21

be teaching about like well

25:24

there was something I just feels there was

25:27

it feels there a class that we looked

25:29

at on the ice and Ray where we

25:31

were like maybe that's not for you that

25:33

was that was Cindy oh that was Cindy

25:35

okay so we were at the time well

25:38

we were onto it because at the time I thought you

25:40

know well we don't know if somebody is indigenous

25:42

or has a background or you know whatever

25:44

but then of course like upon reading her

25:46

like bio and stuff I was like oh

25:48

I don't feel right about that and

25:51

there was a lot of like selling of native

25:53

and tribal you know symbology that

25:56

like clearly was just kind of

25:59

adopted by some

26:01

white Ohioans, you know. And I know,

26:05

you know, I know that happens, but it just

26:07

felt so much, like

26:10

it just felt like there was so little

26:12

representation of people who were actually practicing

26:14

those things. You

26:16

know, it felt like almost, I don't

26:18

know that everyone, but most of them that I

26:21

looked up were like not actually, you

26:23

know, being represented by people who

26:26

actually have like that cultural background

26:28

or that association. So it felt

26:30

a little weird, but

26:32

I did have two readings with two mediums,

26:34

which was really fun. And I believe my

26:37

grandma came through, which was pretty cool. Actually,

26:39

why don't we talk about that on the

26:41

after hours? I'll tell you about my readings. Okay. Cool,

26:43

yeah. Then that way, that way, there's

26:46

like a little extra bonus content. Did

26:48

you, cause

26:51

you were supposed to originally, the itinerary was

26:53

that you have like eight different places you were gonna

26:56

go. Did you go to any of them? I

26:59

mean, no. Well,

27:02

yes, yes, no, I did, I did.

27:05

I went to one before the Scientology

27:07

one. And when I went to the

27:09

first one, there was not a single

27:11

person in the room. And I just peeked

27:13

my head in, but I had to leave in like

27:15

20 minutes because I kept signing up for different slots

27:17

for like, for a reading, palm read, you know. And

27:20

so I was like, oh, I can't stay a full hour. And

27:22

by the way, I would be the only person in

27:24

the audience. And it's not like, like

27:28

I just felt uncomfortable being like, I'm gonna sit

27:30

here and then I'm gonna leave 10 minutes into

27:32

this hour long vacation. And then there's nobody in

27:34

the room. And so I felt like, uncomfortably. That

27:37

should have been like, maybe

27:39

that's something they talk about in the future about

27:42

like a scheduling situation. Cause yeah, if everybody's got

27:44

different slots for things and nobody's gonna be able to

27:47

go to an hour long thing.

27:49

It felt like it was

27:51

not the best organization. And

27:54

also finding these stages took us like two hours

27:56

cause you have to go through the whole fucking

27:59

auditorium, which is... again, like hundreds and

28:01

hundreds of booths and like thousands of people.

28:03

And then you have to find some staircase

28:05

and then they're all in a basement. So

28:07

it's like, it's not like very accessible either.

28:09

Um, but anyway, it was very

28:11

cool. Otherwise, um, I had a very

28:13

good time and, uh, yeah, yeah.

28:18

Thank you for, uh, let me blab about that

28:20

for a bit. I am

28:22

sad. You didn't get to go to some of those classes because

28:24

I was hoping to learn on your behalf about pets

28:26

being the mirrors to something

28:29

I don't, okay, so we can talk

28:31

about this. And after I was two, my friend

28:33

went to her though, cause that's the other thing.

28:35

All those people who did these stages had booths.

28:37

So one of the people that did the mediumship,

28:40

um, reading that I was going to go to, but we

28:42

didn't get there on time. I got a

28:44

reading from her. So it was like, Oh, I

28:46

still got to experience all that. Um, even

28:49

though I didn't go to the, like the actual hour long

28:51

presentation. Okay. Well then, okay. Then

28:54

I don't feel so bad, but I'm glad

28:56

you had fun though. I

28:58

did. Thank you. And your itinerary did help because

29:00

I was able to say we like this person

29:02

and we should check out their booth, like this

29:04

person, and then I vetted. I

29:07

almost feel like convention halls, like the

29:09

same thing with like, if, if I ever went to comic

29:11

con, you gotta do the two days cause you got to do

29:13

one day of like exhibits and one

29:16

day of like, just doing all the

29:18

vendors because the vendors are so overwhelming.

29:20

Yeah. Yeah. It was so overwhelming. And

29:22

there were places where I was like, Oh, we got to do that

29:24

before we leave. And then before we knew it, like five

29:26

hours had passed. So I went to LA's

29:29

comic con and I was like, I

29:32

can't imagine San Diego comic. Imagine

29:34

the big one. Yeah. Part

29:36

of me is always like I, cause I think like

29:39

a year or two ago, I was like, you know

29:41

what, one of my things this year is I'm going

29:43

to go to more conventions and like, see more like

29:45

exhibit halls and like do more like, and

29:47

I never ended up really happening because my first thought was

29:50

like, I want to go to San Diego comic con I've

29:52

never gone. And then I went to LA's to

29:54

practice and I was like, I am practice

29:57

round was a Lot. And

30:00

video comecon. I think it's like ten

30:02

times that size of like coach Hello

30:04

for nerd saws like I am so

30:07

basic I can go. This conference is

30:09

going to Colorado Springs and like Sedona

30:11

next and I'm like that's gonna be

30:13

off the chain dude lattice how Ohio.

30:15

We had some Indiana sight gags some

30:18

year now. Michigan that like. Oh

30:20

out there in those Like real. Big whoop

30:22

ass cities it's gonna go about

30:24

be utterly allow. Well yeah, Yeah.

30:27

Any of those like big hot spots for

30:29

her up for for metaphysical stuff are going

30:31

to be. A Doozy! Well

30:34

I'm very happy When person, what are

30:36

you? Will you drink Just like of

30:38

a watershed A you've got a coffee

30:40

search. You. Know I've got my

30:42

liquid I the which I I'm

30:45

a little annoyed because these descended

30:47

to me since I was like

30:49

doing some promo with them online.

30:52

And. Over time I

30:54

guess I just wasn't posting enough about my

30:56

like code or. Whatever. See so

30:58

many of. Us

31:01

so now like shit I better serve hosts about it.

31:03

Utter won't move of i think I don't even have

31:05

a code is a big as as xt but it's

31:07

like twenty percent off so you know if anyone wants

31:10

any but I am drinking it to them trying do

31:12

I'm. He. Might be

31:14

more active about my water consumption

31:16

after all of your bullying calling

31:18

me a rat the out while

31:20

I'll keep doing that. Know.

31:22

It's rating system. I literally don't

31:24

have anything to drink in. The.

31:27

House or now. except for these damn were beers

31:29

I keep showing up at my house. Ethics: As

31:31

member I got a root beers yeah yet as

31:33

a gift. I so unless

31:36

you really drink repair all the time

31:38

than it. Compiles,

31:40

Up very quickly accumulate. Oh, I

31:42

feel I'm I'm a. Part.

31:44

Of me feels a little resentful until I can get through

31:46

some of this because I'm like man, there's so much repair.

31:49

So I'm. Birth.

31:51

Birth powering through right now at. It

31:54

feels like morning for me. I. Guess it's noon so it's

31:56

not who we are now for me to be drinking. rebirth but

31:58

i thought it was apropos be because

32:00

this brand is called Capone. Oh,

32:04

that's fun. I was like, we

32:06

could do something with that. It

32:09

does feel weird to be taking my

32:11

heart medication with just like nothing but

32:13

sodium rich soda. I always do that. I

32:16

always take my, I took my vitamins with

32:18

a strawberry Fanta the other day. I was like, it

32:20

seems like it's just counteracting. One

32:23

of them is keeping you alive, but not both. We

32:25

don't know which one though. The

32:27

other one's just, which one? Nobody knows. Science

32:30

has not figured it out yet. But

32:33

yeah, so listen, I get it. I

32:35

do the same thing. Okay,

32:37

well, before I tell my

32:40

story, this is my

32:42

PSA to all my thirsty little rats

32:44

out there, including Christine, to

32:47

drink some water. And I'd really, I

32:49

feel bad that I just like knocked liquid IV

32:51

out, I wasn't trying to do that. I'm just sad that

32:53

I wasn't good enough at promo-ing them. It's

32:56

my own fault. But I will say, I

32:58

think I have a link in my, Lincoln

33:01

Bio, I think, if anybody wants the code.

33:03

I mean, because I know this shit's expensive.

33:05

I'm like, they used to get

33:07

me some packets every now and then but now Blaze

33:09

drinks it and so it disappears. So I

33:11

have to hide it in my office. Speaking

33:14

of Lincoln Bio, do you know what the Lincoln My Bio

33:16

is? Is

33:20

it a picture of poop? I don't know, what is

33:22

it? It is close.

33:24

It's to our new book that

33:26

we are trying to get people

33:28

to pre-order. Right,

33:32

that old thing. Well,

33:35

that old thing is Atlas, the Hotter Road

33:37

Atlas one. Hotter Road

33:40

Atlas sequel is called Next Stop and please

33:42

pre-order. It helps us with our numbers and

33:44

our first week of sales. And

33:46

you can find that link in our bio or in the show notes

33:48

of this episode. Thank you so much. And

33:51

with that, here's a story for you,

33:53

Christine. I'm excited about

33:56

this one. It's not as just awful as

33:58

last week's with the Charman. Excited

34:01

to. Not. Cringe my

34:03

way through this all the way up. raise.

34:07

It finally spraying it's all up. Fresh air

34:09

fare starts, freshly cleaned homes and it's a

34:11

perfect time to take a fresh look at

34:13

your home security. Trust by experts. Simpli Safe

34:15

was named Best Home Security Systems for Twenty

34:17

Twenty Four by Us News and World Report

34:19

and Newsweek or would have the best customer

34:21

service and home security. The system blankets your

34:24

whole home and protection and have sensors to

34:26

detect everything from break ins, fires, floods and

34:28

more. Plus, they offer a variety of indoor

34:30

and outdoor cameras to keep watch over your

34:32

property. They at night this has been such

34:34

a cool service for us to have at

34:36

our place. It means we have cameras watching

34:38

entrances to the house. It means we have

34:40

indoor cameras were we need them. And it's

34:43

backed by Twenty Four Seven. Professional monitoring for

34:45

less than a dollar a day. See that?

34:47

Fast emergency response him dispatch when you need

34:49

a most and there is nothing like having

34:51

that sense of security. Simpli Safe, professional monitor

34:53

and agents can even help stop crime in

34:55

real time. How cool is that? The can

34:57

speak to intruders through the wireless and or

34:59

camera warning them that they're being recorded and

35:01

police are on their way. That's one of

35:04

my favorite features. Simpli Safe has given many

35:06

listeners real peace of. Mind. He should

35:08

have a to get twenty percent off

35:10

any new Simpli safe system when you

35:12

sign up for fast protect monitoring. Just

35:15

as it simpli safe.com Flesh drink that

35:17

simpli safe as I am P L

35:19

I safe.com/drink There's no safe like Simpli

35:21

safe. So. You got engaged can go

35:23

rats. Now you may be wondering what's next

35:26

if you're planning a wedding or first you

35:28

need to know about his Zola. In fact,

35:30

assay shout this at any friends I have

35:32

who are engaged because it saved my life

35:34

when I was planning my wedding. Zola has

35:36

everything you need to plan your wedding in

35:38

one place, including venue options and all your

35:40

vendors. Plus you can design, save the dates

35:43

and invites, build a furry wedding website, create

35:45

your registry and stay on track and on

35:47

budget throughout the entire process with their free

35:49

planning towards I tell my friends, Zola is

35:51

a one stop. shop right this is the

35:53

key to planning a wedding i didn't even

35:55

have a wedding planner i used zola and

35:58

they were so so helpful on every front

36:00

everything from save the dates to a wedding

36:02

website to online RSVPs to finding vendors. With

36:04

Zola you can plan your entire wedding in

36:06

one convenient place. From the day you get

36:08

engaged and search for the venue to the

36:10

day you send out your save the dates,

36:13

make your registry, and even taste your cake.

36:15

Zola has literally everything you need to make

36:17

the whole process super easy and actually enjoyable.

36:19

There's even a five-star app that helps you

36:21

plan on the go or on your couch.

36:23

Start planning at zola.com. That's z-o-l-a.com. Oh

36:29

by the way, oh Christine, oh you

36:31

fucked up my algorithm so bad with

36:33

that Ruby Frankie nonsense because the second

36:35

you said it was in my phone's

36:38

ear, all of a sudden every

36:41

single thing that popped up on my

36:43

tech talk was like months old Ruby

36:45

Frankie content. Yeah it's probably all the

36:47

ones that I've watched over and over

36:50

that like now is saying oh you

36:52

you mentioned the topic here's Christine's fucking

36:54

treasure trove of likes and

36:56

it's annoying I'm so sorry. I tried to

36:58

mix with my current algorithm and so I

37:00

just got a bunch of the gay stuff where it's like

37:02

they're definitely gay and here's why

37:05

they're definitely gay and here's why.

37:07

Oh about Ruby. Ruby

37:09

and Jodi or whatever. Which by the way

37:12

is one of the fun parts to talk

37:14

about you know so. Well,

37:17

could be worse. Okay

37:19

well here we go this is a

37:23

mystery a maybe

37:25

a mystery maybe not we'll see. This is

37:28

the case of the Pollock

37:30

sisters the Pollock twins. Why

37:33

do I know that name? I

37:35

go through phases where I get obsessed with twins so

37:37

maybe I just read it one time but I don't

37:39

remember. So I have

37:41

not covered them for a while because

37:43

I thought that they

37:46

were another

37:48

set of twins I've covered which

37:50

were Jennifer and June Gibbons aka

37:52

the silent twins and that was

37:54

episode 49. 49. Oh that's my

37:57

lucky number. I guarantee you you said

37:59

that in the episode. I

38:01

know I did. And

38:03

so anyway,

38:05

there's, there are a

38:07

new set of twins, I confused them myself.

38:10

So that's why I haven't covered them before, but

38:12

they're different. In the 1920s,

38:14

this is in England, in the 1920s,

38:17

John and Florence Pollock were the future

38:20

parents of these Pollock twins. They

38:23

were born in the 1920s. They

38:25

both grew up Christian. They both

38:27

ended up converting to Catholicism later.

38:29

And at a very young age,

38:31

John Pollock, he read about reincarnation

38:33

and was fascinated with it. I'm

38:39

excited. And he,

38:41

despite it not aligning with his

38:43

faith, he didn't care. He was

38:45

like, I am obsessed with this. This is so cool.

38:49

It's like if I decide to be religious, but I

38:51

also threw in time travel as like a main tenant.

38:53

I was like, it's happy. There's no way. You

38:56

were like, I get the 10 commandments, but here's my

38:58

11th. And it's that time travel is real.

39:02

If it's real ever, it's real

39:04

now. I'm just saying because no,

39:07

I'm full. Listen, I'm in full agreement because

39:09

it's got to be real. If it's real

39:11

ever, right. Then like it's real always. If

39:15

time traveling to the past is real

39:17

and for guys, I would

39:21

be so obnoxious with a bag of

39:23

weed or whatever you guys eat it

39:25

with. A bag? Yeah. I'm

39:29

like one of the gummies that I

39:31

buy legally online that they deliver to me in

39:33

a shiny pack. Yeah. Sometimes

39:35

I think if I

39:37

really do wish I went like acid tripping at

39:40

least once in my life because I would have

39:42

had the best fucking time. Listen, the

39:44

night is young. Your life is young. Let's not count

39:46

it out just yet. Okay.

39:52

Well, let's get me a new heart first

39:54

and then we'll try things like acid. Fine.

39:58

Okay. So

40:00

he's nine years old, believes in reincarnation, no

40:02

matter what his religion says, he's like, maybe

40:04

it's real, maybe it's real. And

40:07

he sometimes even prays to God

40:09

for proof that reincarnation is

40:12

real so he can feel validated in his

40:14

own belief. Wow. Yeah,

40:17

he's big on this. So

40:21

in 1946, John and Florence

40:23

now have a couple of kids. They

40:26

got a few sons, some sources said

40:28

two, some sources said four, most sources

40:30

said two. And

40:34

they also have a daughter that was born that year

40:36

named Joanna. And

40:38

once Joanna was old enough to

40:40

talk, she started regularly saying, I

40:43

will never grow up to be a lady. Uh-oh.

40:47

Yikes. Uh,

40:51

the family moves eventually to another

40:53

area in England where they start

40:55

running a milk delivery company and,

40:59

or like a milk milkman services,

41:01

essentially. And

41:03

in 1951, five years later after Joanna

41:06

was born, they have another daughter

41:08

named Jacqueline who was born. So

41:12

Joanna and Jacqueline, they

41:14

are five years apart from each other, but

41:16

they are very, very bonded. They have

41:18

everything together. Joanna is

41:21

especially known, maybe it's because she's the older

41:23

sister, but she was especially known to be

41:25

very kind to people and inclusive and take

41:27

care of them and bring them into the

41:29

fold. She was very

41:32

doting to Jacqueline and she

41:34

would just look out for the other kids

41:36

in the area. And she was also known,

41:39

like her favorite hobby was putting on really

41:41

elaborate plays like costumes and

41:43

set deck. Like this girl put in

41:45

the work for a themed play. And

41:50

so that's what Joanna was known for. Both

41:52

sisters also had this weird habit of showing

41:54

affection to people by combing their hair. We

41:57

don't really know where that came from, but it just kind

42:00

of was an organic thing

42:03

that happened for them. They both really loved combing

42:05

people's hair to show them that they liked them. And.

42:08

That's very sweet. It's

42:11

literally all precious. So this

42:13

is now six years later in 1957. So

42:16

Joanna is 11, Jacqueline is six. They

42:19

are walking with their friend Anthony to

42:23

mass at, they're

42:25

trying to go to church. This

42:27

is literally like out of a movie.

42:29

The three of them are all holding

42:31

hands and walking quietly down the street. Just

42:34

three little kids all holding hands together. Is

42:39

that not precious? I imagine they're skipping and whoopin'

42:41

sick. Yeah, but I think I'm remembering this. I'm

42:43

remembering this story all of a sudden. I'm

42:45

remembering it and I don't know if I heard it. Yeah, it

42:47

couldn't have been on here, right? Obviously.

42:51

It might've been on a different podcast once, but I'm

42:54

maybe probably a Smoshy Legends. I don't know,

42:56

but okay, go on. Okay,

42:59

they're all holding hands, maybe hoopin' sick,

43:01

maybe skipping something. Something precious. Imagine the

43:03

cutest, sweetest thing you ever could. And

43:05

then hold on to that again. Kick

43:08

the can, which by the way I found out is

43:10

more than just kicking a fucking can back and forth.

43:12

There's rules to kick the can. I didn't know that.

43:14

I feel like I learned that on Hey Arnold,

43:16

but I don't recall completely. I

43:19

think I saw it on Hey Arnold and thought they were kidding. I

43:21

was like, those idiots don't know how to kick the

43:23

can. I really thought kick the can was like, I

43:25

kick the can and then you kick the can and

43:27

somehow we end up in another location because we walked.

43:29

No, it's like a full game, I think. Yeah. Okay,

43:32

you, me and Eve are gonna play kick the can when you come to

43:34

LA. It sounds like you're not

43:36

very good at it. I'm not,

43:38

so you have a good chance at winning, Miss

43:40

Competitive. Let's do it, finally. I thought I'd be

43:42

competitive. Listen, you're either

43:45

projecting or something. I

43:48

don't know, man. I think I have

43:50

seen you in a room with your brother maybe

43:53

during one heated conversation and

43:55

then I ran with it. I was like, all right. Well,

43:57

okay. They are obviously competitive. With a sibling that's different. fair.

44:00

I just want to know

44:02

the rules to kick the can. So we're gonna do it sometime

44:04

and then you can go play with Zandi

44:06

and then you can win over there. Okay

44:09

so they're holding hands very

44:11

sweet. Nearby there is

44:13

a woman named Marjorie Wynn and

44:17

she is going through

44:19

it. She is apparently very riddled with grief

44:22

at the moment after losing her husband. She

44:24

is some sources say she was like forcibly

44:26

separated from her own kids. I don't know

44:29

what the story is there but

44:31

she was struggling in a lot of ways

44:33

and it seems that either she was maybe

44:36

attempting to end her life or

44:39

she was just really

44:41

having a bad day and took maybe

44:43

too many pills. Oh

44:46

no. Some stories say she was

44:48

hoping she would overdose. Some people say it was

44:50

an accidental overdose but either

44:52

way the dose was not lethal

44:54

as quickly as one would anticipate

44:57

and while under the influence she gets in

45:00

her car and starts driving erratically through town.

45:03

Fuck. People tried to stop

45:05

her there was literally people in their own cars

45:08

like trying to chase her down and like swerve

45:10

her off the road but nobody could do anything

45:12

about it. She was flying

45:15

and unfortunately her car ended up jumping

45:17

the curb on the sidewalk and

45:20

bam hit all three kids holding hands so sweetly

45:22

on their way to church and

45:24

all of them die pretty instantly. I mean

45:26

that's a fucking nightmare dude. One

45:30

source said that all of

45:33

the kids literally went

45:35

flying. So

45:37

all three died? All three died.

45:45

The sisters died I think pretty

45:47

instantly. Anthony I think

45:49

went to the hospital and then died later which

45:51

is just even worse. He almost hoped that it

45:53

was just instant. So

45:57

seemingly unaware of what happened?

46:00

Marjorie just keeps driving. Like she

46:04

thought she just hit a curb or something. Eventually

46:08

her car gives out or someone's able to get her

46:10

off the road and seeming really

46:13

dazed she was quoted saying,

46:15

what's the matter? Did I

46:17

hit someone? Girl. Now

46:20

some other sources say that she actually

46:22

intentionally hit them after having some

46:24

sort of psychotic break about losing

46:26

her own kids. We don't know

46:28

what the real answer is but she was...

46:31

It sounds like she doesn't even know. Yeah

46:33

I don't think she knows who she was and so

46:35

she ended up quickly being

46:38

unresponsive and I think probably passing out from

46:40

the medication. She goes to the hospital and

46:42

they treat her for an overdose but then

46:45

she is put under like intense psychiatric

46:47

care obviously. But I get this they

46:49

put her under psychiatric care for her acute

46:52

melancholy. Mmm. So

46:56

I don't know like depression light

46:59

even though she literally just fucking killed

47:02

Freaks. Well acute means set and onset

47:04

and like acute means

47:06

like not good. Like it's like... Remember

47:09

we've talked about this where I used to think acute meant like

47:12

lower because it's an acute angle. I'm

47:15

still there. Yeah. Yeah no

47:18

apparently you're saying like kind of.

47:20

Acute is the opposite of chronic

47:22

because chronic is just like a constant

47:24

underlying acute is like a sudden onset

47:26

of something. So basically

47:29

it's probably true whatever

47:31

acute melancholy. Yeah and

47:34

melancholy still I don't feel like no one even

47:37

uses that word anymore. That feels like a no.

47:39

I think like they used to sum up a

47:41

lot of I think a lot of things with

47:43

just like melancholia and it was just

47:45

like or hysteria probably. Or

47:47

hysteria. Yeah that one was

47:49

probably more anxiety but yeah.

47:51

Yeah I feel like either you were too

47:53

much and it was hysteria or you were not enough

47:56

and it was melancholia. So

48:00

anyway, she gets put away, we don't really

48:02

hear about her again. So the

48:05

three kids, they all passed

48:07

very quickly. They

48:09

were also apparently buried side by side

48:11

in adjoining graves, which like... So

48:15

the dad was obviously, or John

48:17

Pollock, the one who as a kid always

48:19

believed in reincarnation. He

48:22

was like, obviously beside

48:24

himself and he spent most of the

48:26

time after this in his daughter's room.

48:30

He claimed he could still feel their presence. And

48:33

shortly after, Florence was pregnant.

48:38

And they literally prayed

48:40

for their daughters to return.

48:42

So keep in mind,

48:44

immediately the story tickles

48:47

the placebo effect. Right,

48:49

right, right. Sure. There's like some

48:51

bias immediately, right? So

48:54

anyway, they... And actually

48:56

while I say this, John

48:59

was very into reincarnation. Apparently Florence

49:01

was like so not into these beliefs that

49:03

it almost actually caused them to get divorced

49:05

a few times. So he was like really

49:08

into that. Well, I mean, I've heard

49:10

people... People

49:13

get divorced when they lose a child, let

49:15

alone three children because they cope with grief

49:18

differently or they... So I

49:20

can imagine, in this case, if he's really

49:22

holding on to this idea that they're going

49:24

to be reborn and she's trying to get

49:27

back to focusing on

49:29

her pregnancy, the other kids, I can imagine that

49:31

being a big... Yeah.

49:33

A point of contention, I imagine, for

49:36

the two of them. Yeah,

49:38

I think there... I

49:40

didn't see any information on before this event

49:42

that she was really... had a strong opinion

49:48

of it. I think she just kind of disagreed. And I think,

49:51

yeah, people grieve differently and I think he was

49:53

holding on to it and she was like, can you shut

49:55

the fuck up and let me just get

49:58

over the fact that both my daughters decided. pregnancy

50:00

without like wondering if it's my dead

50:02

children. Yeah, yeah. It's really like really,

50:04

I mean, being pregnant is hard enough,

50:07

that one I can speak to. So I

50:09

imagine it was like, okay, like I

50:12

don't want to keep talking about that grim thing

50:14

right now. Yeah, I don't

50:16

know. I don't know. On your health

50:18

and everything. Or like

50:20

even your. That sounds terrible. Or

50:22

even like he's, it almost

50:25

in some ways like takes away from his own

50:27

excitement about a new baby. It's like, oh, he's

50:29

right. You're putting a lot of

50:32

pressure on. You're like, oh, I want

50:34

them to be the replacement of. Yeah. Yeah.

50:36

Yeah. Yeah. And I'm not blaming him at

50:38

all either. I'm sure I would probably honestly

50:40

have this exact same reaction. So I'm not,

50:42

I'm not saying like he's in the wrong, but

50:44

I can see why that would be like a,

50:47

like a, a tense attention in the house. Yeah.

50:49

As someone who believes in reincarnation, I,

50:52

right. I don't think if I

50:54

went through something horrible, I could get through

50:56

it without assuming for a second, like as

50:58

I'm getting through it, like maybe they'll come

51:00

back having the whole at least, you know?

51:02

Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

51:05

So they're grieving differently. It really drives

51:07

a wedge between them, but she's

51:11

pregnant. And in 1958 Florence gives

51:13

birth and they had gone

51:15

to doctor's appointments. The doctor said, Oh, it's like a

51:17

healthy baby, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But

51:20

she gives birth to two babies. Never

51:24

told that there was actually

51:26

another baby. Oh,

51:28

because back then it was hard to tell. The

51:31

doctors even were like, we had no

51:33

idea. Like this is not supposed to happen. Yeah. Because

51:35

if one's just like, I watched a lot of call the

51:37

midwife before I had a baby, then I

51:39

can't watch it anymore. But when

51:41

I did watch it, I was like kind of

51:43

surprised how little they were

51:45

able to figure out back then, like

51:47

just because they didn't have ultrasounds obviously

51:49

for a while. So you

51:52

just have to feel around. Yeah. And

51:55

I guess he only felt one baby. So

51:58

what a surprise. grieving their

52:00

two daughters they now have two

52:02

daughters. Oh that is

52:05

so crazy. So did the,

52:07

I'm sorry to ask, I know you already said it but did

52:09

the boy end up passing? Yeah.

52:11

All three kids died okay. All three did but one was

52:13

just their friend. Oh

52:16

it was a friend, oh I'm sorry I thought it

52:18

was a his son because I was like does he

52:20

not want him to come back to you? Okay, somebody

52:22

else's son. Okay. No they were just going to church

52:24

with one of their friends and then the friend also passed.

52:27

Mm-hmm. Yeah so they ended

52:29

up having identical twins and

52:31

even though identical twins are not sorry

52:33

not identical twins, twins in general were

52:35

not like on

52:38

either side like it

52:40

was not common. They couldn't have expected this.

52:42

It wasn't like a genetic thing that they

52:44

were expecting. Right let alone identical

52:47

twins and so they

52:50

end up having identical is the

52:52

fluke right? Yeah that's why

52:54

I'm saying like either way I guess it wouldn't have.

52:56

Oh I see. Yeah my friend had identical twins and

53:01

she said that's just like when your your

53:03

body just like goes like oops I made two of them.

53:06

Also I heard that if I mean so fraternal

53:08

twins are the only ones that you can like

53:11

maybe see coming but it's also apparently

53:13

only if on

53:16

the mom side or on the uterus

53:18

owner side. Apparently they're in charge

53:24

genetically on whether or not twins come through so

53:26

if you are even if you're a male

53:29

fraternal twin and you

53:32

know you're having a baby it doesn't matter.

53:34

Apparently it's just a... I see.

53:37

Yeah. Well in that case I'm in luck because

53:40

I always wanted twins

53:42

but now I think that was a bad

53:44

call. Maybe

53:47

I'm okay without. I've

53:50

always I mean we've talked about this before I've always

53:52

liked the the whimsy of multiples

53:54

but yeah and if I found out

53:56

right now if I had

53:58

three babies showing up all once I would

54:00

absolutely pass out. So they have these identical

54:03

twins and this

54:07

is where if you need to write it down

54:09

I understand but

54:11

the original sisters were

54:13

Joanna and Jacqueline. Okay.

54:16

We write it down. I am.

54:19

I don't have gargoyles so. Yeah,

54:21

an old-fashioned pen will do.

54:23

Joanna and Jacqueline and the

54:25

new sisters are Jillian and Jennifer.

54:29

Okay. I mean I guess at least they gave them

54:31

new names. Yeah. Oh

54:34

yeah. I don't mean that to be flippant. I

54:36

mean seriously like I didn't know if they were

54:38

gonna say you know we'd

54:40

maybe maybe they compromised maybe he did want

54:42

to name them the same just to like

54:45

come yeah well have that come from and

54:47

part of me is like maybe they were just going

54:50

for a theme but it does feel oddly close to

54:52

home that like it's mm-hmm you know I

54:54

mean I will say

54:56

out of these four girl J names

54:58

three of them are Duggar names. Oh

55:02

there you go. So they still have which one

55:04

do they have to go Joanna they don't have yet? They

55:07

have a well they have a Joyanna and

55:09

a Johanna that are both sisters in the family.

55:11

They couldn't come up with anything original. So

55:13

Jacqueline is what they don't have. They don't have a

55:16

Jacqueline. Okay. Anyway only bring

55:18

that up because it is not something

55:20

I missed that there's a series of J names

55:22

in a family. Okay. Yeah yeah yeah.

55:26

So okay so they have the older

55:28

sisters are Joanna and Jacqueline the newer

55:30

sisters are Jillian and Jennifer

55:34

and right away they noticed that

55:36

each of these sisters seems to

55:38

have a weird set of commonalities

55:41

with one of the previous sisters. Oh

55:44

boy. For one

55:46

Jennifer has two very interesting birthmarks

55:49

and both of them match identical

55:51

spots where Jacqueline had spots.

55:54

That's pretty weird I was gonna say

55:56

that's one you can't really imagine. So

56:00

one was a discoloration at exactly the same spot

56:02

that Jacqueline had one on her waist. They

56:07

both had the same thing. Another

56:12

one was right above Jennifer's eye,

56:14

which is a scar

56:17

that Jacqueline once had from when she fell into a

56:19

bucket when she was a kid. Or when she was

56:21

a toddler, I guess. I was saying I would

56:23

do. I know. So- I

56:26

went to a bucket. I went to a bucket. So

56:30

it was a scar on Jacqueline's face, and now in

56:32

the exact same spot in the exact same way is

56:34

now a birthmark on Jennifer's face. Also,

56:38

Jennifer also had three

56:41

birthmarks near her nose in the

56:44

same places where Jacqueline got

56:46

stitches after

56:48

the accident. Pretty weird.

56:52

When alive, Joanna, who

56:54

kind of takes over – who

56:56

seems to have been taken over by Jillian

56:58

if we're playing this game, like just so

57:00

you know who's who – when

57:04

alive, Joanna had a splay-footed walk

57:06

while Jillian also had a splay-footed

57:08

walk. Meanwhile, Jacqueline, when alive, did

57:10

not have a splay-footed walk, and

57:12

neither did Jennifer. So they both already

57:14

walk like one of the others. Despite

57:19

being identical, Jennifer was slightly

57:21

stockier, as was Jacqueline, and

57:23

Jillian was more slender, as

57:25

was Joanna. And

57:27

one time Jillian actually pointed at

57:29

Jennifer's birthmark, the one that looked

57:32

– that was like right over

57:34

her eye, and she

57:36

said, that is the mark Jennifer got

57:38

when she fell on a bucket. Which

57:41

– that was not Jennifer. That

57:44

was- Oh,

57:46

how weird that she said Jennifer to,

57:48

like she like – as though it

57:50

happened in this life. Oh, how weird.

57:53

Yeah, it's like, oh, that's where you fell. I

57:55

remember that. And it was actually when Jacqueline fell

57:57

when she was alive. Ooh, that gave me chills.

58:01

This one's a little odd for me. I feel

58:03

like we're kind of looking

58:06

for things at this point. But Jennifer,

58:09

as an adult, held a pencil

58:11

the exact same way as Jacqueline

58:14

did. And Joanna held

58:16

a pencil the same way Jillian did. I guess they

58:18

held them in odd ways and they both ended up-

58:21

I don't even know how I held a pencil, but- Yeah,

58:23

that one was like, okay, I guess

58:25

I'll add that one in. Another

58:28

example of- is that

58:30

the girls started to talk about places

58:32

they remembered, but they had never actually

58:35

been before. But Jacqueline and Joanna had

58:37

been. So an example

58:39

of this is the family moved away

58:41

from their old neighborhood when the

58:44

two new daughters came. The

58:47

family moved away before they could have gained any

58:49

memories about that place. But years

58:51

later, as older kids, Jennifer and

58:54

Jillian would visit the town

58:56

with their parents and want to play at

58:58

the park very badly, even though they'd never

59:00

been to that park. But they remember all these

59:02

memories at the park, and even when

59:05

their parents said, okay, we'll go to the park,

59:07

the kids led the way, despite not knowing how

59:09

to get there. Oh, boy, that's weird. They

59:11

also walked past- to get to the park, they

59:14

walked past Joanna and Jacqueline's old

59:16

school and immediately started talking

59:18

about that building, calling it their school,

59:20

and reminiscing in ways that they should not

59:22

have been able to. They even called it- Oh, that's weird.

59:26

They even called it our school before

59:28

they even saw it around the corner. But they

59:30

said, our school's coming up, and then they turned

59:33

the corner, and then there was Jacqueline and Joanna's

59:35

school. Another

59:38

time, they were actually overheard talking about a

59:41

car accident. They had never been in a

59:43

car accident, but they were talking about, in

59:45

detail, a car accident they had been in, including

59:49

Jillian going over to Jennifer, holding

59:51

Jennifer's head, and saying, the blood's

59:54

coming out of your eyes. That's

59:56

where the car hit you. And

1:00:00

even weirder, John and Florence

1:00:02

remember when they had to go identify

1:00:05

their daughters that Jacqueline had bandages on

1:00:07

her eyes. And

1:00:10

now she's saying, there's blood coming out. I

1:00:13

need you to listen to me very carefully.

1:00:16

When you started the story, you literally said

1:00:18

to me, I'm so glad I'm not doing

1:00:20

a rough one like last week. And now

1:00:22

you're like, anyways, these three dead children. I'm

1:00:24

like, Jesus Christ, this is darker than anything

1:00:27

you've covered. Yeah, this is actually

1:00:29

pretty rough. The last one you

1:00:31

said was not probably not even real. Well,

1:00:36

I did forget I was talking to a parent

1:00:38

here, too. So it's just got to be still.

1:00:40

I mean, I don't imagine it's easy for anyone

1:00:43

to hear three children get hit by a car

1:00:45

and bleeding out of their eyes. But

1:00:48

I mean, I think it's probably extra hard

1:00:50

for for parents. It's

1:00:52

just unpleasant, definitely. So

1:00:55

on top of all this, the twins from

1:00:57

the very beginning always had a

1:00:59

terrible phobia of cars. And any time a car

1:01:01

just drove by them casually, they would say it

1:01:03

was going to hit them and they'd start freaking

1:01:05

out. When

1:01:08

they were three, the girls got a box

1:01:10

of toys that once belonged to Joanna and

1:01:12

Jacqueline. And one source even said one

1:01:15

source even said they only got this box

1:01:17

of toys because they kept asking for their

1:01:19

old toys back. And

1:01:22

the parents had to go find like

1:01:25

toys that they tucked away to remember Joanna and Jacqueline.

1:01:29

Holy shit. Jillian

1:01:31

immediately claimed one of the dolls that

1:01:33

belonged to Joanna. Jennifer

1:01:35

immediately claimed a doll that used to be

1:01:38

Jacqueline's. And they both adamantly said

1:01:40

that these dolls came from Santa. And

1:01:42

when they were getting to Joanna and Jacqueline,

1:01:44

they were originally Christmas presents. Oh,

1:01:48

my God. How weird is that? They

1:01:51

both also named their dolls Mary

1:01:53

and Susan, which Joanna and Jacqueline

1:01:56

named the dolls. Shut

1:02:00

the fuck up. There

1:02:02

were apparently other toys in Jacklands,

1:02:04

of Jacklands and Joanna's that the

1:02:06

girls also remembered were

1:02:09

previous Christmas toys and claimed them

1:02:11

as their own. Whoa. This

1:02:13

was the moment, now years

1:02:15

later, this was the moment where Florence was

1:02:17

convinced that maybe reincarnation was

1:02:20

at play because remember she was

1:02:22

so against it. And

1:02:24

I guess this toy moment is when she

1:02:27

was like, okay, this is too fucking weird.

1:02:30

Yeah. Now for everyone

1:02:32

wondering like how much is being said

1:02:34

to them in passing that maybe they

1:02:37

like, you

1:02:39

know, were accidentally creating personas based on

1:02:41

what they'd heard. John

1:02:44

claims that even

1:02:47

though he was thinking about reincarnation the whole

1:02:49

time, he never mentioned it out

1:02:51

loud to the family, he didn't wanna freak out

1:02:53

the kids, he didn't wanna like, you know, give

1:02:56

them any bias at any point. He

1:02:58

said he never even mentioned reincarnation with the twins

1:03:00

in the room until like age 13. Wow.

1:03:05

But, well we'll get to

1:03:07

that. So until

1:03:09

then the girls continued to exhibit similar behaviors

1:03:11

of Joanna's in Jacklands. They had a special

1:03:14

bond with their grandma who once raised Joanna

1:03:16

and Jacqueline and they seemed to have a

1:03:18

strong bond right away as if they already

1:03:20

knew each other. When

1:03:23

the first two daughters died,

1:03:26

Florence ended up staying

1:03:28

home cause she just couldn't handle the grief and

1:03:30

she stopped working and doing

1:03:32

milk deliveries. But later they

1:03:35

ended up finding her old work uniform

1:03:37

and saying, oh, that's mommy's coat from

1:03:39

when she would wear, from when

1:03:41

she would be on deliveries. And nobody knew how

1:03:43

they were able to know that. Through

1:03:47

the years, Jillian, just like Joanna,

1:03:50

was known for treating Jennifer like a big

1:03:52

sister and being very, you know, being there

1:03:54

for her even though they were twins,

1:03:57

not older sister, younger sister. She

1:04:01

was also known to be very doting to the

1:04:03

neighborhood kids in similar ways that Joanna was and

1:04:05

both kids seemed to figure out

1:04:07

on their own that they like to show

1:04:10

affection through combing people's hair. One

1:04:15

of Jillian's hobbies that everyone knew

1:04:17

her for was putting on massive

1:04:19

elaborate plays with costumes and set

1:04:22

deck. Just

1:04:25

like Joanna. And Jillian

1:04:27

later even said that she had visions of

1:04:29

playing with her brothers in a house that

1:04:31

she never lived in before and when she

1:04:33

described things like the furniture she can

1:04:36

even describe the gardens and the orchard

1:04:38

nearby and the neighborhood it ended

1:04:40

up being the house that the family lived in before

1:04:42

the twins were born. Wow.

1:04:45

In the 1960s multiple outlets

1:04:49

started talking about the twins and

1:04:51

the Pollock's church criticized the family

1:04:53

for their story. How could

1:04:55

you believe in reincarnation? Blah blah blah and

1:04:57

the Pollock's ended up having to leave the church

1:04:59

because it was so intense. Wow.

1:05:03

But as adults Jillian and Jennifer slowly

1:05:05

remembered less and less of their past

1:05:07

lives which is another indicator that maybe

1:05:09

it really was reincarnation because they say by

1:05:11

like five you start kind of living it.

1:05:13

Yeah. And by it by adulthood

1:05:15

they had no memories left of

1:05:18

that time. See

1:05:20

that that to me is pretty convincing because like

1:05:22

if he was trying to keep it up this

1:05:25

whole time like keep talking about the doll that

1:05:27

you know. Yeah. Like they

1:05:29

wouldn't have kind of forgotten everything. Also

1:05:32

if he didn't say anything until they were 13 that

1:05:34

it sounds like he let

1:05:36

like eight years pass before he said

1:05:38

anything. He let it. Right. True true.

1:05:41

But this is where I also say a lot of

1:05:43

people believe this could be a hoax because maybe not

1:05:45

even an intentional hoax but they might just be

1:05:48

you know scraping

1:05:50

the bottom for for some sort of coincidence

1:05:53

wherever they can find it to help them

1:05:55

grieve their own children. So a

1:05:57

lot of people say maybe John lied about never

1:05:59

mentioning reincarnation. or they literally had older

1:06:01

brothers who could have said something to them. I

1:06:05

mean, the story was huge at the time, so neighbors

1:06:07

could have said it in passing by just seeing them.

1:06:11

Brothers could have also told them the

1:06:13

names of the dolls or told them

1:06:15

memories that they had with their other

1:06:18

sisters. The mom could have been

1:06:20

the one that combed their hair a certain way,

1:06:22

so all four of the girls showed affection that

1:06:24

way. All the kids have – all

1:06:27

kids have an ability to be very doting

1:06:29

and sweet, and they all put on plays.

1:06:32

They could be scared of cars, especially if the parents

1:06:34

are scared of cars now around their kids. They could

1:06:36

have rubbed up on them. That's

1:06:39

a really good point. And

1:06:41

so the parents could have just primed

1:06:43

these kids forever without even noticing it. I mean,

1:06:45

John was literally praying for his daughter to be

1:06:47

reincarnated, so I don't know if they were as

1:06:50

subtle as they think they were. But

1:06:54

this could have – it

1:06:57

would be interesting if it were

1:06:59

true, and I

1:07:01

wasn't there. Maybe it is true. But

1:07:04

this could also all be side effects

1:07:06

of grieving parents kind of transferring their memories

1:07:09

onto their daughters. And

1:07:12

one theory which was interesting

1:07:14

was maternal impressions, which is

1:07:16

literally that while she was pregnant, she

1:07:18

might have thought so much about her

1:07:20

daughters. She might

1:07:22

have – Florence might have thought so much

1:07:24

about Joanna and Jacqueline, that while pregnant, the

1:07:26

memory is almost like generational

1:07:29

trauma onto the other

1:07:31

babies. Right. Well, and there's also

1:07:34

that idea of trauma

1:07:37

within the – trauma in utero.

1:07:39

And I mean, I imagine having

1:07:41

just lost two kids, that trauma, that

1:07:44

was probably ongoing. And

1:07:46

so they say you can pass

1:07:48

that through DNA. So who knows, maybe if

1:07:50

she – like, for example, the phobia of

1:07:52

the car maybe with something while she was

1:07:55

pregnant, maybe that got – I

1:07:57

mean, I think that's also a very new – They

1:08:00

are any so I don't know. Too much about it,

1:08:02

but I'm yeah, there's a lot I mean,

1:08:04

but even that alone would be really fascinating

1:08:07

is that somehow was passed in utero. Or

1:08:09

it's even, just like, psychologically,

1:08:11

the store is fascinating. Yeah.

1:08:14

So. Of

1:08:16

the only thing we know for sure. Is

1:08:19

that we may never know for her. Ah,

1:08:23

semester A Polish twins are

1:08:25

the was that? Oh. Heck

1:08:27

from the heck. Some rebirth as another

1:08:30

name for them. Hexham

1:08:32

Rebirth of hey I swear

1:08:34

to God that. Where

1:08:37

have I heard this? Snow

1:08:39

Lore? Law. That's

1:08:41

where I've heard it. Lore Wow. and

1:08:43

that was really well done and so

1:08:46

fucking creepy. And you know how much

1:08:48

I'm fascinated by reincarnation and. You.

1:08:50

Know obviously the. Desire.

1:08:53

For your children like that you know

1:08:55

that was clearly born out of Greece

1:08:57

and his fascination already with the with

1:08:59

reincarnation. But then Elsa makes you wonder

1:09:01

like maybe as a kid there was

1:09:03

something in him that new local. He

1:09:06

would experience the ninety me. Like. Maybe

1:09:09

it wasn't that his fascination with reincarnation

1:09:11

like led to this scenario. Like maybe

1:09:13

it was the other way around. Like.

1:09:15

Ya how? he knew that would affect him one day. So

1:09:17

he got really. I mean, even like

1:09:20

to think about. Like. One

1:09:22

of the girls used to always say

1:09:24

i'll never be a lady, I'll never

1:09:26

grow Yeah yeah like again it's like

1:09:28

on the some both sides of the

1:09:31

timeline hit they were able thirty cents

1:09:33

each other or something. Yes, all my

1:09:35

all a goose can my gosh. As

1:09:37

such a creepy story dude you did

1:09:39

a very good job of telling and

1:09:41

you. Have you him? For.

1:09:45

Ftp real quick as that. Okay, yes.

1:09:48

If. You're looking for the perfect gift

1:09:50

to celebrate the moms in your life.

1:09:53

I have a great idea! Aura Frames!

1:09:55

They are beautiful! Wife I connected digital

1:09:57

picture frames that allow you to share

1:09:59

and display unlimited photos. I. Can

1:10:02

speak from Experience here is super easy to

1:10:04

upload and share photos via the Or app,

1:10:06

and if you're given Aura as a gift,

1:10:08

you can even personalized the frame with pre

1:10:10

loaded photos and memories. We. Did this

1:10:12

for my mother in law. It was super

1:10:15

fun to have her open it and already

1:10:17

at the photos of the grand kids and

1:10:19

her own kids were uploaded to with the

1:10:21

frame It was is the coolest experience and

1:10:24

such a rewarding gift Giving. From.

1:10:26

Grandmother's to new mother's arms and even friends in

1:10:28

your life. Every mom loves and or a frame.

1:10:31

Named. The best digital photo frame by wire

1:10:33

cutter and selected as one of Oprah favorite

1:10:35

things, Aura frames are guaranteed to bring joy

1:10:37

to mom's of all ages. right? Now

1:10:40

Aura has a great deal from other

1:10:42

say listeners can save on the perfect

1:10:44

gift by visiting Aura frames.com to get

1:10:47

thirty dollars off plus free shipping on

1:10:49

their best selling frame. That's a you

1:10:51

are A frames.com use code drink at

1:10:54

checkout to save. Terms and conditions apply.

1:10:57

When. You want the best, you have to act quickly

1:10:59

or someone else will get it and said it's like

1:11:01

when you're hiring for your business, you want to find

1:11:03

the most talented people for your open rolls before the

1:11:05

competitions Keeps them up. So what's the best way to

1:11:07

do that? Zip recruiter. Zip

1:11:10

Recruiter Find qualified candidates fast and

1:11:12

right now you can try it

1:11:14

for free at Zip recruiter.com/drink. Zippers,

1:11:18

Powerful magic technology take center stage to

1:11:20

identify top talent for your rolls. Immediately

1:11:22

after you post your job Zip Recruiter

1:11:25

Smart Technology starts showing you qualified people

1:11:27

for it. Amp up your

1:11:29

hiring performance with zip recruiter and find the

1:11:31

best fast. See. Why? For out of

1:11:33

five and players who post on zip recruiter get

1:11:35

a quality candidate within the first day. Just.

1:11:38

Go to this exclusive web

1:11:40

address right now to try

1:11:43

Zip Recruiter for Free! Zip

1:11:45

recruiter.com/drink Again, that's Zip recruiter.com/drink

1:11:47

Zip Recruiter The smartest way

1:11:50

to hire. Wow.

1:11:55

When. Else and isn't around on such a piece of garbage.

1:11:58

i'm literally just I'm

1:12:00

in the same pajamas. I haven't left my apartment

1:12:02

in like three days. I'm eating a box of Nilla

1:12:05

wafers It's all kind of keeping me alive these

1:12:07

days Man

1:12:09

I Bad

1:12:12

I was gonna say I get that

1:12:14

way too when you're like one

1:12:16

boy's gone when blaze is

1:12:18

not around What's the first thing? How

1:12:21

what's the first way your behavior changes? I? Immediately

1:12:25

start ordering poke bowls like

1:12:27

daily Like

1:12:29

door dash like I just order like sushi

1:12:33

He wouldn't want sushi It's just like we don't really

1:12:35

like we'll order every now and then but like when

1:12:37

he's out of town like it's not his Like

1:12:41

poke and like all that is not his

1:12:43

favorite thing so we don't usually soap. It's like

1:12:45

my favorite thing So that's definitely

1:12:47

and then also I just do nothing I clean

1:12:49

nothing. I do nothing I just become like the

1:12:52

ultimate slob the place looks like

1:12:54

a mess current like Allison be having a full-blown panic

1:12:56

attack I mean it Like

1:13:00

it looks it doesn't look as bad as a

1:13:02

place that like deserves to have roaches But definitely

1:13:04

looks more like if you walked into our place

1:13:06

today versus any other time you'd be like Oh, I

1:13:08

kind of get why you've roaches like it Just it

1:13:10

looks kind of like maybe you need to pick some

1:13:12

some your clothes up off the living room floor Why

1:13:14

are they there? You know? Oh? Yeah,

1:13:17

I mean listen To

1:13:20

me that's a normal Tuesday that my house

1:13:22

looks like that on clean days, but I

1:13:25

do understand I

1:13:27

literally don't know how my clothes get out there

1:13:29

I like there's literally just listen I I follow

1:13:32

some accounts where they're like these are where all my

1:13:34

pop bras end up But it's like on the kitchen

1:13:36

counter on that like I don't know you know you

1:13:38

just move around also you have just like a one

1:13:42

Thing like I've three floors my shit still

1:13:44

ends up somehow up in

1:13:46

blazes off it I'm like why are my socks

1:13:48

in blazes off? So I don't know as much as

1:13:50

I want as much as I want a

1:13:52

bigger space I'm like I know it would just

1:13:55

give me more room to be a filthy

1:13:57

a filthy and it's oh Well

1:14:00

I'm the problem is. So

1:14:02

far it's pretty contains release. The living Room.

1:14:04

But I'm still amazed. I'm like, how did my shirt and

1:14:06

appear? What was I doing? mid? It's taking my shirt

1:14:09

off and by myself in the middle of the

1:14:11

day. Not break it off your living room. I.

1:14:14

Don't know how we got there though, I just it's

1:14:16

always a mystery. I feel like I walk around them

1:14:18

slake. Couldn't. Tell you how to how it

1:14:20

came to. Be say where I think I think

1:14:22

that's more normal than you realize. I think

1:14:24

that's pretty standard. You know, like sometimes I

1:14:26

play the game or well, I don't play.

1:14:28

Other people play what's the proceeds personal? Pull

1:14:30

out like a bottle of to Lula and

1:14:32

we like what says i'm like I'm never

1:14:34

going. To come from another i landed lane

1:14:36

of their I mean. I know I put it

1:14:39

there. I just don't know why are when. I

1:14:41

do. You like to think that maybe it's more normal

1:14:43

than I realized but also maybe we surround ourselves to

1:14:45

purchase these types of people say maybe it's just you

1:14:47

and me and were just like sick in the head

1:14:50

and I'm trying to convince us it's normal You know

1:14:52

a couple attack very well be also for has most

1:14:54

diverse and on and but. Yeah, I'm.

1:14:57

Anyway, okay so you ready for story? The.

1:15:00

Urban thousand percent of. Also.

1:15:02

Jokingly that in right that find that we talk

1:15:04

about being sobs. I. Think we talk about

1:15:06

much worse normally. so. Okay I will make

1:15:08

Sarkozy started the conversation I didn't like either Be

1:15:11

like that was for. Your. Ears

1:15:13

only. Okay, So. Everybody's

1:15:15

after this nice interlude. I have a

1:15:17

story for you. This

1:15:19

is the story of Carry

1:15:22

Peter Rasmussen Ak a The

1:15:24

Chameleon Killer. Who.

1:15:26

Know So I want to add

1:15:29

that's the sinister hood gals

1:15:31

talked about this story on like

1:15:33

upset fifty something. of their podcast so.

1:15:35

I've listened to it there as well. And.

1:15:38

Then overall because I just like all these

1:15:40

places are definitely worth checking out on all

1:15:42

these sources. Also. There's

1:15:45

an entire podcast called The Bear. Brooke

1:15:47

Murders Com which. Part

1:15:50

is an incredibly well done a

1:15:52

podcast series and I would recommend

1:15:54

it. I listen to it ages

1:15:56

ago, so it's one of those

1:15:59

things where. I was researching this story and

1:16:01

going, why do I know about

1:16:03

this? Oh, right. I listened to, I like

1:16:05

binged an entire podcast about just this story.

1:16:08

Um, so anyway, it's worth

1:16:10

listening to cause you can kind of watch it.

1:16:12

It's sort of like serial where you can like

1:16:14

see it kind of unfolding in real time as

1:16:17

they're getting clues and it's very cool. So

1:16:19

I'm going to do my best to

1:16:21

cover it from my perspective, but, uh,

1:16:23

just, if you want more of the

1:16:25

story, that is where you should go. So

1:16:28

Terry Peter Rasmussen. He was born in

1:16:30

Denver, Colorado, December 23rd, 1943. And

1:16:35

we don't know a lot about his early

1:16:37

life, his early experiences, childhood, uh, what his

1:16:39

family was like, but it's

1:16:42

almost like no news, maybe it means

1:16:44

good news, maybe like, um, maybe

1:16:46

just nothing to report. There

1:16:48

was one story, just kind

1:16:50

of a, just kind of a dude, you know,

1:16:53

there was one story I heard, um, on

1:16:55

Bear Brook where he had, he had been

1:16:57

cutting a watermelon, um, at a, at a

1:17:00

picnic or something with, with a family gathering

1:17:02

at a family gathering and some, one of the

1:17:04

other kids like made a mat

1:17:06

or said something that picked him off and he

1:17:08

went chasing after him with this big knife. And

1:17:11

apparently it was so startling and upsetting to

1:17:14

the family that they like knew something

1:17:16

was wrong at that point. Um,

1:17:18

so there must've been some signs at the

1:17:20

very least. Uh, but

1:17:23

overall, like, you know,

1:17:25

that he did wasn't in trouble. There wasn't anything like

1:17:27

big that we can point to, um, besides

1:17:30

some anecdotes like that. So

1:17:33

his family moved to Arizona when he was

1:17:35

young and Terry attended elementary school and high

1:17:37

school in Phoenix. He dropped

1:17:39

out his sophomore year, which was 1960 and

1:17:41

enlisted in the Navy in 1961. He

1:17:45

trained and worked as a naval electrician until

1:17:47

he left the military in 67. And

1:17:51

now after his discharge, Terry relocated

1:17:53

to Hawaii because his parents

1:17:55

had a shoe shop there. Oh,

1:17:58

okay. Of course,

1:18:00

he moved his parents to work. Sorry.

1:18:04

Important question. Important

1:18:06

question. Please go ahead. Do you

1:18:09

think that in

1:18:11

the 1960s, that they still called themselves

1:18:15

cobblers, or do you think he was just like

1:18:17

a shoe store owner?

1:18:20

Trying to find the, I'm trying to find the conversation where

1:18:22

I can before we get to the sad stuff. I

1:18:25

think a cobbler makes shoots.

1:18:29

Did his dad not make shoes or was it

1:18:31

like a salesman? No, they just owned a shoe

1:18:33

store. Okay. In my

1:18:35

mind, I was like, damn, he's a

1:18:37

Hawaiian cobbler. That's crazy. Okay. No,

1:18:40

I think a Hawaiian

1:18:42

cobbler is pineapple coconut layered with French

1:18:44

cake. No, I'm kidding. But that

1:18:46

sounds lovely. No, I

1:18:49

think it was just a shoe store.

1:18:52

Okay. That makes it less interesting.

1:18:54

But okay. Yeah. I think, I mean,

1:18:56

who knows? Maybe it was a fucking shoe

1:18:58

carnival for all I know. But

1:19:00

they basically owned a shoe store.

1:19:03

Imagine if a shoe carnival called

1:19:05

themselves cobblers. Imagine

1:19:10

if a cobbler called their store the carnival, and

1:19:13

then you went there and you were

1:19:15

like, this is not as fun as I was expecting. Okay, that's

1:19:17

a really good point. Yeah. Imagine if

1:19:19

a shoe store called itself the carnival. Wait, they do.

1:19:21

And it still doesn't make sense. Yeah.

1:19:24

One time I sent my mom a reel

1:19:27

or to talk about like, oh, me walking

1:19:29

through walking down the aisle at Payless

1:19:31

Shoe Store so my mom can see if these sneakers

1:19:33

fit me. And I sent it to my mom and

1:19:35

she goes, I didn't take you to Payless. I

1:19:38

took you to shoe carnival. And I was like, what

1:19:40

the fuck is the difference? Anyway, that's

1:19:42

like truly the day. That's a

1:19:44

kind of a thing my mom would say it seems these

1:19:46

days where you just don't ever get a straight answer from

1:19:48

them. It's like no one asked what the store was. Let's,

1:19:51

yeah, I don't remember that being pertinent.

1:19:54

So the conversation, get it together. So

1:19:57

in Hawaii, after he moves there, he meets his first.

1:20:00

They are married in July 1968, and

1:20:03

he moved there in 1967. So

1:20:06

this was like a very quick engagement,

1:20:08

like a short engagement. And

1:20:11

apparently, which you can probably guess based on

1:20:13

the content of this podcast, Terry was not

1:20:15

an easy man to be married to. It

1:20:17

seems like pretty early on they had quite

1:20:19

a bit of conflict in the marriage, though

1:20:22

we don't have a lot of detail. In

1:20:25

1969, the couple moved back to

1:20:27

Terry's home in Arizona, and that

1:20:29

is where Terry began working in

1:20:32

his trade as an electrician. Okay. That

1:20:35

same year, incidentally, his wife gave birth

1:20:38

to their twin daughters. So we got

1:20:40

a couple more twins today. Interesting.

1:20:42

The family relocated in 1970

1:20:45

to Redwood City, California, where Terry continued to

1:20:47

work as an electrician. And

1:20:50

while they were living in Redwood City, they welcomed

1:20:52

their third child to the Rasmussen family, and this

1:20:54

was a baby boy. So

1:20:56

in 72, the Rasmussen's had a

1:20:59

fourth child, this time a girl,

1:21:01

and their relationship of the parents

1:21:03

was deteriorating. They separated

1:21:06

the same year that their fourth child

1:21:08

was born, though neither filed for divorce.

1:21:12

It is worth noting, by the way, and Saoirse

1:21:14

made this note, which I was thankful

1:21:17

for, that the first no-fault divorce law

1:21:19

was signed in California in

1:21:21

1969, and this made

1:21:24

it more possible for women to

1:21:26

divorce their husbands. So basically, before

1:21:28

1969 in California, it was incredibly

1:21:31

difficult to divorce – as

1:21:33

a woman to divorce your husband. But

1:21:37

even though this was signed into law in 1969 and we're

1:21:39

in 1972, there were still a lot of complications. Like,

1:21:44

for example, a lot of banks denied

1:21:47

women their own bank accounts without a

1:21:49

husband's signature, and that

1:21:52

went on through the mid-'70s. Same

1:21:54

with mortgages, credit cards, loans. So

1:21:56

it was very difficult financially to –

1:22:00

live, you know, divorced in

1:22:02

the 70s and not always,

1:22:04

but in some circumstances. And

1:22:06

so, you know, we don't know why

1:22:09

they didn't file for divorce, but it's

1:22:11

possible that could have been one of the reasons.

1:22:13

It's just speculation. Sure. She could have been like just stuck.

1:22:15

Just stuck. Just like, no, yeah, I just

1:22:17

don't want to do the paperwork and need

1:22:20

to, I don't know,

1:22:23

sign permission to get a bank

1:22:25

account. So regardless,

1:22:28

she and Terry did get back together eventually

1:22:30

and they moved back

1:22:32

to Phoenix in 1973, where Terry

1:22:34

now works both as an electrician

1:22:36

and in a shoe store. So

1:22:39

he's really just like, he's a

1:22:41

cobbler. He's a cobbler. He's a cobbler.

1:22:45

Circling back to all these old hobbies

1:22:47

of his, all these old jobs. So

1:22:51

although we don't know the personal details of what

1:22:53

was going on in their marriage, we do know

1:22:55

they were struggling. And in 1975, Perry was arrested

1:22:57

in Phoenix for aggravated

1:23:01

assault. And not long after that,

1:23:03

his wife took all four children

1:23:05

and left him. So

1:23:08

in December of 1975, that by the way happened in June,

1:23:10

just to remind

1:23:13

you, and so now we're in December.

1:23:15

So it was about six months. He

1:23:18

shows up to visit

1:23:21

his family unannounced. Oh, the

1:23:23

wife and three kids, or the ex-wife,

1:23:25

I guess, and three kids. And

1:23:28

I'm sorry, four kids now, jeez. Okay, so

1:23:30

he goes to visit his family that he

1:23:32

has not seen. And that does not want him.

1:23:35

Okay. That does not want him. He

1:23:37

shows up unannounced, accompanied by

1:23:39

a random woman. Now,

1:23:42

it's speculated that perhaps he was just trying to

1:23:45

show off like, well, I don't need you. I've

1:23:47

got a new woman, you know, that kind of

1:23:49

thing. We're not really sure.

1:23:51

But he showed up at their doorstep. He

1:23:53

told his family he was living in

1:23:55

Ingleside, Texas. And this, they

1:23:58

were like, okay. Bye.

1:24:01

And that was the last time Terry Rasmussen's

1:24:04

wife and children ever saw him. Oh, man.

1:24:06

And their divorce would be finalized

1:24:08

in 1978, two or three years later. So

1:24:12

that was the last that they kind of – that

1:24:15

was their official parting ways, that first

1:24:17

– I say first – he

1:24:19

word first, family, his first family. Okay. No

1:24:21

dead. So, yeah, you get the hint. Next,

1:24:26

Terry made his way to New

1:24:28

Hampshire, and he adopted a new

1:24:30

moniker. He was now

1:24:32

going under the name Bob Evans.

1:24:36

Like the restaurant? Okay. I

1:24:39

was waiting for that because every podcast I listened

1:24:41

to did not mention it. And I thought, well,

1:24:44

we're going to mention it, obviously. No

1:24:48

heat to sinisterhood. And the other

1:24:50

podcast I listened to, I'm sure you are being

1:24:52

very professional, but I have to talk about the

1:24:54

breakfast joint for a moment. I fucking love hot

1:24:56

ovens. Yeah. So

1:24:58

apparently, Saoirse also knew our

1:25:00

dumbasses would immediately discuss this

1:25:03

because they put this side

1:25:05

note in, which says, the

1:25:08

Bob Evans farm and restaurant business

1:25:10

began major expansion in 1953. So

1:25:14

please remember that this is happening in like 78-ish. Right.

1:25:17

So he's not Bob Evans of the Bob

1:25:19

Evans fame. No, no.

1:25:21

And they're commercial campaigns throughout

1:25:24

the decade and afterwards. So

1:25:26

he basically – the

1:25:28

reason I say that is because that

1:25:31

was already a popular chain. It's

1:25:34

not like, oh, he just picked a random name and then

1:25:36

later it became a restaurant. Like for

1:25:38

decades, for like at

1:25:40

least two and a half decades, this place has

1:25:43

already been around nationwide.

1:25:46

It's a very odd name, in my opinion,

1:25:48

to pick like the name of a restaurant,

1:25:50

but whatever. Okay. So he – it's

1:25:52

an interesting choice, as Saoirse wrote. So

1:25:55

for years, Terry or

1:25:57

Bob Evans would travel the country under false

1:25:59

names. aliases, terrorizing

1:26:01

families wherever he went, but it

1:26:03

would take decades for anybody to

1:26:05

finally put together who Terry really

1:26:07

was and all that he had

1:26:10

done. So

1:26:12

now we do a little star

1:26:14

wipe. We move to a new spot,

1:26:16

a new setting. Oh. Our

1:26:20

new character is Jesse Morgan, who grew

1:26:22

up in Bear Brook Gardens, which is

1:26:24

a small trailer community in Allentown, New

1:26:27

Hampshire, surrounded by the forest of Bear

1:26:29

Brook State Park. Okay.

1:26:31

At over 10,000 acres of land,

1:26:33

Bear Brook is New Hampshire's largest

1:26:35

developed state park, popular for hiking,

1:26:38

camping, fishing, mountain biking, et cetera.

1:26:40

Today, there are over 40 miles of trail.

1:26:43

The park has always been majorly forested and

1:26:45

with so much to do on the beaten

1:26:48

path, there are secluded parts of the park that

1:26:50

are like much more remote and don't

1:26:52

get much traffic. So

1:26:55

Jesse and his friends would often play

1:26:57

hide and seek on four wheelers. Uh,

1:26:59

some kids would hide like out in

1:27:01

the expanse of the forest and the

1:27:03

seekers would then drive around on ATVs

1:27:05

looking for them. So

1:27:07

in summer of 1985, Jesse and

1:27:09

his friends were out and about

1:27:12

playing their usual games when they

1:27:14

came across a big metal barrel.

1:27:17

It was a rusted blue 55

1:27:20

gallon steel drum in the middle

1:27:22

of the remote wilderness. Hey,

1:27:25

firm pass. Hey,

1:27:28

that's not good. Exactly.

1:27:30

Like that feels actually kind of fake. That feels,

1:27:33

if I got that script sent to me by

1:27:35

someone who wanted to make a horror movie, I'd

1:27:37

be like, that's too obvious. You have to, it

1:27:39

doesn't feel natural. Too natural.

1:27:41

Too unnatural. Too

1:27:44

unnatural. And so guess what they did

1:27:46

cause their kids open it

1:27:48

up, obviously. And they found it up, they'd open up the

1:27:50

fucking barrel, right? So they, they try to open it up

1:27:53

and all they can't really get it

1:27:55

open fully. They're, they do notice a

1:27:57

terrible smell is emanating from this. barrel.

1:28:01

And they managed to tip it over

1:28:04

while they're trying to open it

1:28:06

up. And they notice a liquid

1:28:08

begin seeping out. And Jesse being

1:28:11

a child described it as what

1:28:13

he thought was rotten milk. Oh,

1:28:18

oh, you got me back after that story I

1:28:20

told you today. Oh, I'm

1:28:22

glad because you deserved it. Here's the

1:28:24

thing, though, like, I was a rambunctious

1:28:28

teenager in the middle of the woods quite

1:28:30

often. And if I

1:28:32

found a reason to explore, you know, back before

1:28:34

there were phones, you just had to make fun with what

1:28:36

you had. And sometimes there's a steel drum full of a

1:28:38

dead body. But if

1:28:41

I ever found a

1:28:44

container, and now my friends and I are

1:28:46

like, gung ho about opening this thing, and

1:28:48

that's gonna be our fun for the day. The

1:28:51

second it smelled, I was never interested

1:28:53

enough to keep going. I'd be

1:28:55

like, you were like, I'm out of here. I

1:28:57

was like, fun game till I can't breathe. All

1:28:59

of a sudden, I don't want to be so

1:29:02

things. Yeah, especially like if it

1:29:04

smells like, I mean, the smell

1:29:06

of death is like a very specific smell. And

1:29:08

I see why someone would

1:29:10

say something like bad milk, because it's

1:29:12

I mean, just such a horribly

1:29:14

potent smell, like, and

1:29:16

it's like decomp and it's Yeah.

1:29:19

And then liquids pouring out of it now. Oh my god. And

1:29:21

I know one of them was touching that liquid with their bare

1:29:23

hands. I know. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god.

1:29:25

Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. They were like,

1:29:27

what is this? And they probably touched it and smelled their hands

1:29:29

being like, I don't know what this is. Oh my god. Oh

1:29:32

my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. The thought makes me

1:29:34

want to scream. That's

1:29:36

horrific. Okay,

1:29:40

going. I'm glad

1:29:42

you find this horrifying and compelling because

1:29:44

the if if anybody else does also

1:29:46

the bare brick podcast goes into like

1:29:48

great detail about the kids like finding

1:29:50

the barrel and all this and because

1:29:53

it's like a well documented story. So

1:29:55

definitely go listen to that if you want to hear the

1:29:57

actual interviews and like first person accounts of all this. But

1:30:00

yeah, so they, you know, their kids

1:30:02

are thinking like, oh, I don't know, this is just

1:30:04

something gross in the woods. And they're like, ew, it

1:30:06

stinks. So they hop on their four wheelers and they

1:30:08

just head out. It wasn't

1:30:11

that it wasn't until a few months

1:30:13

later that a man was out hunting.

1:30:15

Yep. A man was out hunting

1:30:17

in that same area on November 10 1985 when

1:30:19

he found this same barrel.

1:30:24

But this time, as he examined it

1:30:26

and looked a little closer, he noticed

1:30:28

what appeared to be human bones coming

1:30:30

out of the partially opened

1:30:32

container. Which like,

1:30:34

it's so sad to think that like,

1:30:38

if that's like your loved one and

1:30:40

like someone almost discovered them, I know,

1:30:42

months ago, and then and then just

1:30:44

kept sitting there for months. Yeah, yeah,

1:30:47

it makes it extra sad. And I think the kids

1:30:49

who are now obviously adults have had

1:30:51

to kind of come to grips with that, you know,

1:30:54

yeah, that they didn't do anything or say anything. But

1:30:56

it's also the fact that they were like, you didn't

1:30:58

know. Yeah, I mean, the fact they were

1:31:00

just like, fucking around with like, like playing

1:31:02

around a container. And like, they're like,

1:31:04

they're little, they don't know, they don't

1:31:06

know that people hide dead bodies in a park yet.

1:31:08

You know, that's something you learn now

1:31:11

when the other man finds it and tells you

1:31:13

and you're traumatized for the rest of your life.

1:31:15

So, you know, yeah, you were young and naive

1:31:17

briefly when you found the barrel the first time.

1:31:21

So yeah, it's too bad.

1:31:23

So he, of course, this guy, the

1:31:25

hunter realizes quickly that something is very

1:31:28

wrong. So he calls the police from

1:31:30

the Bearbrook Gardens community and the responding

1:31:32

officer walks right out and

1:31:34

opens up the barrel and

1:31:38

the plastic bag inside it

1:31:40

and is shocked to discover

1:31:42

the human remains of

1:31:45

two people in the barrel.

1:31:47

Two. Oh my god. Two. The

1:31:50

first being an adult woman who is somewhere

1:31:52

between her 20s and 30s. And

1:31:55

the second is a young girl between

1:31:58

ages eight and 10. Oh,

1:32:00

were they related? Oh my god, were they related? Oh

1:32:04

my god. We'll get to

1:32:06

it. So the remains were largely decomposed,

1:32:08

but investigators were able to determine that

1:32:10

they both suffered lethal blunt force trauma

1:32:12

to the head, and that was

1:32:14

presumably how they had passed. There

1:32:16

was nothing inside the barrel that could point to

1:32:19

their identities, and because only

1:32:21

a few thousand people called Allentown,

1:32:23

New Hampshire, home, there were

1:32:25

no outstanding missing persons cases, and so they really

1:32:27

weren't sure who this could be. Police

1:32:31

began going door to door asking residents

1:32:34

for anything unusual they may have seen,

1:32:36

any missing family or friends in another

1:32:38

town who maybe could be these missing

1:32:40

– who matched the description of these

1:32:43

bodies, anything that they could find

1:32:45

to point them in the right direction. But

1:32:48

unfortunately, they got nowhere, and eventually a

1:32:50

local business donated a headstone so that

1:32:52

they could at least lay the child

1:32:54

and the woman who they assumed to

1:32:57

be the mother to rest,

1:32:59

because they said, even if we don't

1:33:01

find out who this is, we want to at least give them a

1:33:04

proper burial and give them the respect they

1:33:06

deserve, even if we don't know their names.

1:33:10

So they were buried without names, and

1:33:12

the years ticked by, and the

1:33:14

case went cold. They just had

1:33:16

no other angles to pursue. So

1:33:20

meanwhile, investigators in Allentown did not

1:33:23

know that this story was still

1:33:25

unfolding all the way across the

1:33:27

nation, 3,000 miles

1:33:29

away in Scotts Valley, California.

1:33:33

This is almost like a simultaneous part

1:33:37

of the case is going on all the

1:33:39

way across the nation in an RV park.

1:33:43

And in 1986, a

1:33:45

year after the burial discovery in New

1:33:47

Hampshire, a man named

1:33:49

Gordon Jensen moved to the RV

1:33:52

community here in Scotts Valley along

1:33:54

with his five-year-old daughter, Lisa. The

1:33:57

two of them lived in the small campground.

1:34:00

on the back of his pickup truck while

1:34:02

he worked as the neighborhood's general handyman. Lisa,

1:34:06

the daughter, was well known in the community.

1:34:08

She spent her days running around, playing with

1:34:10

the other kids, the other families while her

1:34:12

dad worked. But some

1:34:15

people, this makes my heart

1:34:17

hurt a lot. Oops, sorry, that

1:34:19

just hit me. Some people noticed that they

1:34:21

would hear Lisa crying in her camper at

1:34:23

night. And

1:34:26

yeah, and adults

1:34:28

started to notice that, like, Lisa seemed

1:34:31

underfed. And now, Gordon

1:34:33

wasn't giving her new clothes

1:34:35

or bathing her very often.

1:34:39

And when other parents asked

1:34:41

about, you know, where's the child's mother?

1:34:43

He told different stories about

1:34:45

how she had died. He told

1:34:47

different neighbors different things. He said she died

1:34:50

of cancer, then he told someone else she

1:34:52

died in a traffic accident. And

1:34:55

so nobody had a really clear understanding of what

1:34:57

had happened. But he framed it as like, oh,

1:34:59

we're just all in our lonesome after her mother

1:35:02

passed away tragically. And he can't

1:35:06

keep his stories straight, I guess. So

1:35:08

one day, Gordon finds

1:35:11

out that a neighbor of his, Catherine

1:35:14

and Richard Decker, they mentioned their daughter

1:35:16

has been having trouble conceiving and has

1:35:18

been trying to have a child. And

1:35:21

so Gordon says, hey, listen, Lisa

1:35:23

is a little girl.

1:35:26

And you know, you know her well, why don't like,

1:35:28

I'm heading out of town for about three weeks, why

1:35:31

don't you guys take

1:35:33

her under your wing for a couple weeks, your daughter can

1:35:35

kind of have like a trial run of having a little

1:35:37

kid in the house. And

1:35:40

you guys can watch her while I'm out of town, it's like

1:35:42

a win win. And so they say, you know, that's a great

1:35:44

idea. They drive Lisa

1:35:46

over to their daughter's house.

1:35:48

And, you know, they're like

1:35:50

bits of safe and loving home, we're going to take great

1:35:52

care of her until you come back. And

1:35:55

Gordon stayed behind. So Gordon

1:35:57

goes off on his three week trip. allegedly,

1:36:01

and he never comes back. Oh,

1:36:04

he just said, so see ya.

1:36:06

Well, okay, so should I

1:36:08

make guesses or should I keep quiet? You

1:36:12

can guess. Is

1:36:14

this also Terry slash Big Bob and

1:36:17

he has just ditched another family member?

1:36:20

Yeah. Okay, well, it

1:36:23

sounds like he's got, there's one thing he's

1:36:25

really good at and it's being a piece of shit.

1:36:27

Okay. Yeah, you know what, Em? You're

1:36:30

right, we do deserve to get, he does deserve that credit.

1:36:33

Yeah. Okay, great. He does

1:36:35

deserve the credit of being a terrible

1:36:38

person. So

1:36:40

Gordon says, yeah, I'll be back in

1:36:43

three weeks. Never fucking returns. And so

1:36:45

now that Lisa is with this kind

1:36:47

of like loving, protective, safe family, they

1:36:51

notice she starts displaying

1:36:53

behaviors common among abused

1:36:55

children. And they

1:36:58

think to themselves, okay, well, he hasn't come

1:37:00

back yet. Like what do we do? So

1:37:03

they seek professional assistance. They're trying

1:37:05

to contact Gordon. They're trying to

1:37:08

finalize an adoption, but like Gordon

1:37:10

is MIA. So they don't know

1:37:12

how exactly to handle this, but

1:37:14

he's gone. And so authorities get involved.

1:37:16

They start looking for this guy, Gordon,

1:37:18

who's abandoned his daughter. They go

1:37:21

around and since he was a handyman, interestingly, they

1:37:27

go around to the trailers that he

1:37:29

worked on and they were

1:37:31

able to pick up prints off of like, I

1:37:33

think a VCR that he had helped fix in

1:37:35

a different trailer. Yeah, so they

1:37:37

managed to get his fingerprints, thank God. And

1:37:40

I will say also, as this

1:37:42

was going on, they did

1:37:44

find out, they took her to

1:37:46

a doctor, of course, because she was kind

1:37:48

of clearly showing signs that things had been

1:37:50

going very badly. And it

1:37:53

turns out he had been sexually abusing her.

1:37:58

That's why it really, really... The really really

1:38:00

makes my stomach hurt. And

1:38:03

I get it now. A nice idea. He. Or she

1:38:05

was crying. I

1:38:08

really. I mean she was crying but yeah,

1:38:10

that? yep, I know. Now we know why,

1:38:13

Because I think I see. I just thought,

1:38:15

oh, she's just being neglected and. Which.

1:38:17

Is so by Yeah, not bad. It's bad.

1:38:19

but it almost. As like. And he did that.

1:38:22

On. Top of just fully neglecting her.

1:38:25

And so of course, like. They're.

1:38:29

Horrified. And now police definitely

1:38:31

want to find the second guys

1:38:33

because a he's apparently abandons his.

1:38:36

Small child. Secondly,

1:38:39

it's a A and then secondly,

1:38:41

whatever a be one two three.

1:38:44

He they also are like Whoa! This.

1:38:46

Fucking guy. Has.

1:38:49

Been. Molesting in the sexually

1:38:51

abusing the child. So we need to find

1:38:53

them. so that is when they're. Going door

1:38:56

to door to find fingerprints and they

1:38:58

are able to pull off a fingerprint

1:39:00

from. One of the neighbors I

1:39:02

think it was a Vcr if

1:39:04

I remember correctly. right?

1:39:07

Everyone Lisa is fucking five years

1:39:09

old like this is so sick

1:39:11

it's to so sick. Such.

1:39:15

A sweetheart. So she. Is.

1:39:18

Thank. God left with this. Good.

1:39:21

Family or A and he just

1:39:24

is out of her life. Thankfully.

1:39:27

So. They find his fingerprints. Finally I'm and

1:39:30

they run them through. This is some

1:39:32

and they match a name that. The

1:39:34

weird part is they don't match Gordon's

1:39:36

name. They match the name. Curtis.

1:39:38

Kimball. Oh God damn it. I'm. An

1:39:40

big bob. I

1:39:43

was waiting for you to say it and

1:39:45

then me say the lead of rename the

1:39:47

yeah this is the name that runs through

1:39:50

that comes up when they run them. Prince

1:39:52

is Curtis Kimball. And pretty

1:39:54

simple: had been arrested and a singer prints

1:39:56

were in the system after he was arrested

1:39:59

for a drunk. Driving incidents and

1:40:01

that it actually happened while Lisa

1:40:03

was in the vehicle. So the

1:40:05

authorities trying to track Gordon flush

1:40:07

Curtis as they know him down

1:40:09

had no way of knowing that

1:40:12

he had a third identity Bob

1:40:14

Evans and also affords identity Terry

1:40:16

Rasmussen. So a. Species, They're how much.

1:40:19

They don't even realize because they have this

1:40:21

Curtis guy in the system with his friends

1:40:23

are thinking oh, that's his original identity They

1:40:25

don't even know that he has to more

1:40:27

before that. So.

1:40:30

In Nineteen Eighty Eight, he is

1:40:32

finally captured and arrested because he's

1:40:34

driving a stolen vehicle. And

1:40:36

when they arrest him and asked

1:40:38

for his information he tells them

1:40:41

his name is Gerald Marker Men.

1:40:44

This may this he just come up with it on

1:40:46

the fly or like as I mean some of the

1:40:48

not he must he must. He literally probably looked across

1:40:50

the street, saw like eight Ninety Nine homestyle meals and

1:40:52

was like my name is Bob Evans. Know.

1:40:57

Now that like a how and a. Doctorate of and said

1:40:59

on the sub said. How else

1:41:01

could be recovering up with this shit like. Come

1:41:04

on I I I don't know but. Yeah, just

1:41:06

making shit up is making up. Name's left and right.

1:41:08

How do you even like? Keep up with. I.

1:41:10

Mean a name like. Mock. Are

1:41:12

men like you have to remember them? I feel

1:41:14

like that's not like. My. Name is.

1:41:18

Like by Eleven beloved.

1:41:20

Father maybe that's why he did bother them

1:41:23

For as he's like I can remember I

1:41:25

can remember Bob Evans like that one is

1:41:27

easy Yeah the something marker man I'm like

1:41:29

oh you either are getting overly confident or

1:41:32

of really desperate or both. Yeah.

1:41:35

Yeah and I will say also with

1:41:37

unlike the other ones with them with.

1:41:40

Gerald. Mater Men. He actually had a

1:41:42

social security number links to that name so

1:41:45