0:00

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair

0:03

Expert. I'm Dan Shepard. I'm joined

0:05

by Monica Padman. Hello, Monica.

0:08

Hi. We have incredibly exciting

0:10

news. Starting on Monday, August

0:13

14th, you'll be able to find all

0:15

new episodes of Armchair Expert free

0:18

on Spotify and everywhere

0:20

you get your podcasts. But in the meantime,

0:23

we decided we wanted to revisit a few

0:25

of our favorite episodes over the last

0:27

couple of years.

0:28

Yes, it's very exciting for us

0:31

because we get to come back to everyone,

0:34

which is really, really fun. And these

0:36

are some of our faves. Yes,

0:38

in case you missed them, these are the ones that

0:41

we thought were worth re-airing before

0:43

we go wide on August 14th. Please

0:46

enjoy some of our best of.

0:49

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair

0:51

Expert. I'm Dax Randall Shepard. I'm joined

0:53

by Monica Lilly Padman.

0:54

This is a three-namer. It

0:57

is a three-namer. It's with great

0:59

delight that I announce today we have

1:01

Robert Downey Jr. You've been

1:03

wanting to have him on since day one. Day

1:06

one. I'm fascinated

1:08

with Robert. I love Robert. And

1:13

I hope you'll find amusing our past friendship.

1:16

I find it to be one of the more amusing ones I've ever

1:18

had.

1:18

It was a really fun, funny,

1:21

a little manic in a great way

1:23

chat. It was so

1:26

fun. I was in the best mood afterwards

1:28

and he was so lovely and engaging to you, which made

1:30

me so happy. He was. Yes. I

1:33

really liked him a lot. He's a sweet, sweet, sweet boy. He's

1:36

also an award-winning actor and producer.

1:39

The Iron Mans, The Avengers,

1:41

The Sherlock Holmeses, Tropic Thunder,

1:44

Chaplin, which he, a performance

1:46

of a fucking century. Now he

1:48

has a new show about

1:51

ding, ding, ding, cars, my favorite

1:53

topic, called Downey's Dream

1:56

Cars, where he takes

1:58

some incredible.

3:59

There's more on this. There's more on this. You

4:02

want a Keurig fresh brew? No. What

4:04

are you gonna do? I'm worried about your caffeine. Do

4:07

you want a matcha? It has oat milk. We can

4:09

have you fucking nose-diving your matcha.

4:11

We can split it. Can we order if I sit

4:13

on Trevor? Yeah,

4:15

that's gonna be audio-wise. It's

4:17

gonna be hard for us. Not for me. It would be a

4:19

first time. We like first timers.

4:22

Do I have to wear these fucking headphones?

4:24

You don't have to do anything. You don't. But

4:26

I'm not shocked you're already fucking bucking the

4:28

system. There's been 600 motherfuckers came

4:31

in here before you that had no problem with the headphones.

4:33

Prince Harry among them. And you gotta come in here

4:35

with all this toothed. I don't wear headphones. I don't

4:37

drink fucking milk.

4:39

What else don't you do before we

4:41

proceed? Why are they still recording? Oh, we are.

4:43

We're APR. We are. Always be recording.

4:46

Except after your P. But you don't notify

4:49

the guest that you're already recording? Of course not.

4:51

You're sinister. How often are these changed

4:53

out? Nobody

4:55

has asked that. I know. This is

4:57

an embarrassment. This is a great question. Those have been changed

4:59

out recently.

5:00

You're a goddamn liar. Rob's a rascal

5:02

and a liar. You shouldn't believe him. You guys took them

5:04

for F1. That's right. And I broke a pair. And then

5:06

I had to bust out a pair from the box under

5:09

my truck I found. I have more if you want a different

5:11

pair too. I do want a different pair. Oh, this

5:13

is very exciting. Oh my god. So

5:15

I don't see and I want a different pair. I've known you for, I

5:18

want to say 17, 18 years now. Which

5:20

might shock you. Because I've done math. I

5:22

didn't know this side of you. I

5:25

didn't know this. I haven't even seen them and I don't like them. The

5:27

exact same as these. What's your problem

5:29

with those?

5:30

I need two pairs. Okay, great. I

5:33

thought you were worried about germs, but you're worried about

5:36

size. No. What

5:38

is he worried about? It's really hard to figure out what

5:40

he's worried about. Are there covers over these? Or

5:43

is this just a felt mask? Would you be more comfortable

5:45

if we put masks on for COVID? I have masks

5:47

in the house. Should we get those? If I

5:49

was worried about that, I'd have brought masks for

5:52

everybody because your masks were bullshit

5:54

masks. No, these are KN96s. Most

5:57

people have KN95s. We have KN96s.

5:59

Monica, I'm so pleased to

6:02

be meeting you. That is

6:04

so kind. And I've been

6:07

studying you. Oh my god.

6:11

What have you learned? Well, I'm

6:13

in your closet. I'm following

6:15

you around. I'm listening to your dulcet

6:17

tones. You're in my closet? That means you

6:19

found me on Instagram? Yeah, which by

6:22

the way, how I got to Instagram, I'm

6:24

not sure. I tried to get on

6:26

Instagram to watch Richard Lewis,

6:29

a long story. So which one

6:31

of these is fucking on? I would recommend the ones that are plugged

6:33

in. Oh my god. I'm

6:36

gonna try these for a second, but they just- Give him

6:38

a whirl. They smell like your fucking dog. You're

6:40

dusting off your chapling character for this.

6:43

You've got a big nest of cords

6:45

over there now. Why is this an improvement?

6:47

Well,

6:47

don't you like the way it sounds? Do you want a sincere

6:50

answer? My head hurts. Okay.

6:53

It's like wearing a headband. Would you like an aspirin? Tell

6:57

me. Should we call it?

6:58

This has already been great. We got enough. Rob's

7:01

got big balls. The biggest brings

7:03

me, what is this? Cream top. A yak

7:05

milk cream top. That

7:07

was so beyond

7:10

random. It's like, this is what you would drink.

7:12

Oh no, no, it's what Dax drinks, so I got an extra for

7:14

you. And we're kind of similar. I hate to break this

7:17

to you. Last question? Yeah, okay, we're there.

7:19

We're at the last question. See, the show comes

7:21

up June 22nd. Thanks guys. How do

7:23

you kick this thing off usually? Because so far you

7:25

have nothing, and I think Rob would agree

7:28

with me. No, you're completely wrong. You

7:30

don't know shit

7:30

about shit. Now you're a genius in a lot of spaces,

7:33

but you're out of your depth right now. We

7:35

know how to make a fucking hot, steamy

7:37

podcast. I wanna try on some of your clothes.

7:40

Anytime. Are they here? No,

7:43

you'd have to come to my apartment. All right, but the weird

7:45

thing is, usually if I think about

7:47

something or say it, it's there.

7:49

I know, I know. So this

7:51

is already. But I'm a tough cookie, and

7:53

I don't just bend to the whims of rich,

7:56

powerful men. Especially the white ones.

8:00

That's right. Kind of flattering. It's

8:02

a mixed bag, right? I

8:05

thought you should take it as a compliment. You've done a lot. So

8:07

when does

8:07

Ola music need their stand

8:09

back? That's too deep of a reference. What's

8:11

Ola music? I don't know. All right. You

8:14

ready? No, I'll tell you guys when this starts and what part

8:16

of it you can use to start it. Just

8:18

cue me when it's my turn to enter. Okay.

8:20

But I do have a real sincere question.

8:23

What would you have ordered at the coffee shop? Nothing.

8:26

Oh, you don't

8:27

like coffee. No, I love coffee. I just wouldn't order

8:29

something at a coffee shop. Oh.

8:31

Two pedestrian? Two unpredictably. Do you think people

8:33

are trying to poison you? Well, first of all, this woke

8:36

muffin top fucking spot tay

8:38

or whatever it is, that just tells

8:40

me who you are.

8:42

Okay. Who robbed you. And

8:44

who are we? You're my friend. Oh my God.

8:47

Oh my God. I'm like, I'm

8:49

like, I'm bracing for impact. Yet

8:52

it seems like they're compliments yet more impact.

8:54

And now we're going to drink it. After all. Fucking

8:57

imaginary. Of course we're going to drink it because

8:59

we're a fucking addict and there's not going to be anything

9:01

that's not sampled once. Let's

9:04

get that second set of headphones on. Any

9:06

better?

9:06

Is there beer in there? I still can't get

9:08

the fucking, I was supposed to be ready in time for

9:10

you, but the CO2 barrel isn't

9:12

in there. I was hoping you and I could drink pint to

9:14

NA while we were doing this interview. What's NA?

9:17

Non-alcoholic beer. I don't know. You don't

9:19

fuck with an NA? No. Have you

9:21

ever? You never have. I have. You don't

9:23

like it. I have a huge moral judgment on it.

9:26

But you do tell me. Tell me. No,

9:28

I don't. Oh, because someone did give that to me. I ran

9:30

into a dude from the program at a restaurant

9:32

or something. I was drinking in O'Doul's. And

9:35

he said to me,

9:36

you know what they say about near beer? When

9:39

you're drinking near beer, you're near beer. I

9:42

was like, oh my goodness. I said, you know how I know

9:44

this isn't beer? Because I don't start looking for cocaine

9:47

after three. That's how we know for sure.

9:49

Definitively, this is not beer. Hold on,

9:51

I'm ready whenever you are. Oh gosh. Rob,

9:54

this is too much. We can't even get them settled. It's

9:56

too early for this. He's not even settled. You

9:59

take a picture of me.

9:59

Right now, look, are

10:02

you ready? And

10:05

then over here, let's grab one over

10:07

here. Oh wow. You

10:10

don't have to take any of me, Rob. I'm

10:12

easy. Part

10:15

of me. I just don't want

10:17

it to start because then at some point it's gonna

10:19

end. Oh, that's beautiful. But do

10:21

you know what? It doesn't ever have to end.

10:23

It's a holiday weekend. These

10:26

are gonna be the best photos ever taken. They are.

10:29

This is that last character we just saw. Not

10:31

sure. Maybe Elsie Downey. Oh, your

10:33

mom. Is that mom? Yeah, mom might've been

10:36

a little mom in there. I'm gonna now insist we hit play,

10:38

okay? Wait, can we just listen back to what we've done

10:40

so far? Absolutely, go to Video Village and watch playback.

10:42

Okay, I think it's relevant. People

10:45

can already hear the playful banter between you and

10:47

I, they know there's an established relationship. So

10:49

where does it come from? What's the genesis? I'd love

10:51

to tell that story if we could. Yes.

10:54

Okay, I'm gonna be sincere right now. We've

10:55

known each other for, I think 18 years now. 17, something

10:58

like that. You can share that before you say your sincere thing.

11:01

What's that, my tobacco? On my full

11:03

white outfit, I work literally for you because you dress

11:05

so funky. I'm like, I'm gonna go all white. And then you clearly

11:07

dress like I dress today. It's like a body

11:09

switching comedy. You're in like a fucking- I'm not

11:11

saying another word. Oh,

11:14

no, no, no, no, no. Ever. Listen. You

11:18

know what's gonna fucking happen? I'm gonna predict it right now. I'm

11:20

about to tell a story about us wrestling, but we're just gonna start

11:22

wrestling in this interview. There's no way we make

11:25

it through this whole interview with you and I not getting

11:27

on the ground. You're gonna say that you might cry.

11:28

I predicted that

11:30

as well. Weren't we there too? Yes, I really thought that's what you

11:32

were gonna say. Okay, I've not told you this

11:35

ever, intentionally, because I think

11:37

it would weird you out enormously.

11:40

But I need to tell it because it's one of my favorite stories, okay?

11:42

This is not a bit. We get Bree on the phone for this.

11:45

I have been having reoccurring

11:48

dreams about you since I

11:50

was 14 years old,

11:52

once a month, in through my 20s. I

11:54

would wake up, I'd tell Bree, like, yeah, I had one of these

11:56

fucking Robert Downey dreams again. Mind you, you

11:58

weren't on all the marquees at this point. This is this

12:00

pre Iron Man puffy, but fuck em all Totally.

12:04

I mean I would have these dreams and

12:06

Robert. They were the same every single

12:08

time

12:09

I bump into you out of nowhere. We start chatting

12:12

and it's immediate. Oh, wow. We're

12:14

soul mates. We're connected Okay,

12:17

this is 20 years of this this is non

12:19

exaggeration So one day we get

12:21

invited over to John Favreau's house as

12:24

I have just done a movie with him And you're about to start a movie

12:26

with him

12:26

a little movie. Oh, yeah Yeah, a little

12:28

tiny upstart. So

12:30

we go over there. We spend the evening together.

12:33

We have no connection I thought we did wait.

12:35

I know I remember it better than you do because obviously

12:38

there's a status in bale So

12:41

naturally, I remember every moment of this

12:43

and you don't we are soul mates by the way, but continue

12:46

Okay on the ride home from the Favreau's I'm

12:48

observably kind of sad and Breeze

12:51

says to me. Oh, honey I'm sorry that didn't

12:53

go as your dreams always did and

12:55

I go. Yeah kind of interesting I don't think he

12:58

gave a fuck that I was there blah blah blah blah, right? Bear

13:01

with me two months later. I go

13:03

to visit John on set of Iron

13:05

Man. You guys are in that enormous Marina

13:08

del Rey soundstage. Yeah, they built

13:10

the spruce goose

13:11

Exactly you and I are walking you're

13:14

leaving set. I'm walking towards it We cross

13:16

each other and

13:17

I'm so certain that I made no

13:19

impact that it occurs to me I'm gonna have to remind

13:22

him that we met so as I'm crossing

13:24

you I say to you. Hey, I'm Dax

13:26

We met at John's the other night

13:28

and you said and I'll never forget. Oh,

13:30

I remember

13:32

You were the guy getting all the attention.

13:34

I'm used to getting Wow

13:41

and my soul took flight

13:43

wings came out of my back and I was like

13:45

there it is And from that moment on in my version

13:48

of events then we became friends if

13:50

you call us friends and not soul

13:52

mates Isn't

13:57

it wild dude,

13:58

why wouldn't we tell

14:00

each other, it's those things,

14:02

because everything is known. So I've known unconsciously

14:05

that you've been dreaming about me since you were 14. And

14:09

then I probably thought, well, this is probably what made

14:11

him.

14:11

So Numinous and all this stuff.

14:14

Your influence on him. You know, I came

14:16

in so smart, as-he-in manic,

14:18

and now I'm in my body. Oh,

14:20

wonderful, wonderful. And listening and connected. I'm

14:22

even gonna try this horse

14:25

shit coffee. It's horse milk.

14:27

But here's the problem nowadays. I can't even tell

14:30

where the drink hole is on this. There's

14:32

so much cream.

14:32

There is. And froth.

14:34

It takes a bit to get to the actual coffee. Fuck, that's good.

14:37

I know. And now with your permission, Robert, I'd

14:39

like to go through a couple highlights after that

14:41

moment. Hold on one second first. How do you

14:43

feel the subliminal

14:45

dialogue is going on with us

14:47

being reintroduced with him in the high

14:49

status position? Cheryl switched around.

14:52

With you there, backing his play. I'm

14:54

gonna try to focus most of my energy

14:56

on you, but I'm gonna need a little feedback.

14:58

So far we're at 100%. I

15:01

think we're doing really good. Notes?

15:04

No notes yet. Notes?

15:07

No notes yet. I've done a couple edits

15:09

already in my head. Just

15:10

like three. Monica edits the show, by the way.

15:13

Oh, I know. Okay, great. Yeah, so I

15:15

will sometimes look at her and she has a look

15:17

on her face that I know the scissors are out. And

15:19

I should wrap it up, because it's not gonna see the light of day

15:22

anyways. Either

15:22

I've checked out or I'm staring daggers

15:25

into his eyes like, why are you still talking?

15:27

Yes, that's happened several times. All right, in case you're

15:30

wondering where we're at in the edit, you're on highlight

15:32

reel. Do you have any memories of those two things?

15:34

Of course. Okay, then we chat a lot on set

15:37

that day. And then you invite

15:39

Brie and I really quickly thereafter to your birthday

15:42

party. And I am like, I cannot

15:44

believe I've been invited to your birthday party.

15:46

We go to, this is why I can't tell

15:48

you any of this stuff. I think I've played it really cool. Would

15:50

you agree? Literally would have had no

15:52

idea.

15:53

In the line of what you're saying, from

15:55

day one, we had like five people that

15:57

were dream guests and you were on the

15:59

list.

15:59

And I was like, well, can you

16:02

just ask him? I know you know him, you

16:04

could just ask. And he refused

16:08

to just ask you. Do you need to take

16:10

that? Yeah. Okay, sorry. It's

16:12

a nice surprise. She's on another show right

16:14

now as well. She does have other shows.

16:16

Well, they're all under our umbrella. Yeah, but they're

16:18

your shows. And I thank you for them. They're

16:21

ours. Because I do take a little piece of her shows, so it

16:23

all works out. They're ours. Ours shows. This

16:25

is what it is like on set with

16:27

us too, without a very strong

16:30

director presence, is we're just

16:32

kind of two loose balloons that

16:35

we know that the helium impact

16:37

is going to ignite the atmosphere. So we're

16:39

just kind of dancing until the moment that the

16:41

strings get cut. We hit the

16:43

ceiling and light

16:45

up the ionosphere. So, and

16:48

burn

16:48

out quick. Super quick.

16:51

And our voices get all high. So

16:53

you were gonna do a fucking highlight. So

16:55

God, Jesus, where are we? Okay, so.

16:58

It's not linear. I think I need to fast forward

17:00

now. So initially we get to meet each

17:02

other through Favreau and then we stay in touch a little bit.

17:04

Because I guess

17:05

if I was on the outside and I learned we were friends, I would assume

17:07

it was from sobriety, but that weirdly was not

17:10

it. I can neither confirm nor deny my

17:12

participation in 12-step programming. Okay,

17:14

let me handle that for both of us. Let

17:17

me bust the fuck out of your anonymity. Okay,

17:21

what's really important now is that then we have a

17:23

second mutual friend. And this friend

17:26

is everything. He's

17:28

the most important human being on planet Earth. The

17:31

male that we're probably both modeling

17:33

ourselves after. Three, two, one. Tom

17:35

Hanson. Oh. Esquire.

17:38

You know, I talk about him so often on here.

17:41

I mean, I can't stop. So tell

17:43

us for how long you've known Tom.

17:45

I've known Tom for the entirety

17:48

of my career. He

17:50

is an entertainment lawyer. He's,

17:53

I'm sure as you've described him, he is a gorgeous,

17:56

well-timed ne'er-do-well. He is the only

17:58

person in our industry who has known.

17:59

known enemies. He's

18:02

brilliant. He's great. The thickness of his

18:05

hair. I know. It's insane.

18:07

But it's everything. I've always said that he

18:09

is the most successful person I know

18:12

personally, professionally. As a

18:15

dad to his daughters. Yeah. And his moral

18:17

psychology is really the thing.

18:19

Yeah. I know. I love him

18:22

so much. So then... So how do we show

18:24

our respect for him? Let's

18:26

fast forward how we honor him. We

18:28

are both lucky enough to get invited to his... Was

18:30

it a 4th of July? Was it New Year's Eve? Yeah.

18:33

I think it was 4th of July-ish. Sounds like 4th of July. It was a holiday

18:36

in Jackson Hall, Wyoming. I was staying

18:38

there. You were at a hotel with Susan, but you came

18:40

over for dinner

18:42

and they sent us to get something

18:44

out of the kitchen, you and I. And

18:46

while we were there, we got to talking about

18:49

martial arts. Oh, no.

18:51

As you do.

18:52

At any point,

18:55

take over from your perspective. Because I'm not

18:57

sure how it goes from us chatting about us full

19:00

grappling, knocking shit over in this kitchen.

19:02

I think it just exploded. Yeah. It's

19:04

what soulmates do. There's

19:07

no explanation. They

19:09

just are following the fucking blueprint

19:11

of some celestial plan they're not even

19:13

aware of. It was one of those testosterone

19:17

moments where people just

19:19

gather around to see, is this where

19:21

they've had to get

19:22

in their fast friendship?

19:25

I think it's like, well, we know we can't fuck each

19:27

other. So what else is left? Speak

19:29

for yourself. You may

19:31

be tall, but you're worth the climb. Well, we

19:33

should add we're there with our wives. Look,

19:35

here's all I remember. It happened. You're a game

19:38

person. I don't know if people know this

19:40

enough about you,

19:42

but you are someone that should not

19:45

be taken lightly. You're also

19:47

tall and strong. You're also

19:49

a tiny bit controlled, crazy.

19:51

Hail belly, Jean. Okay. This is a

19:54

terrible combination for someone

19:56

who would think you were something else.

19:58

And I.

21:59

I would be sitting in that chair and you would

22:02

be sitting in this chair. And I think

22:04

there's an understanding. We both

22:06

share the same brain disease. We

22:08

both have the same kind

22:11

of semi tamed,

22:13

wild manic energy. I'm

22:15

always happy to see you because then I realize

22:17

I'm not the only one who looks

22:20

bugged out half the time. Yeah, yeah,

22:23

yeah. And I think there's just a lot of

22:25

similarities. But I think more than anything

22:28

is this

22:29

power of partnerships. Your whole life

22:31

is built around these very

22:34

central, deeply significant

22:36

partnerships you have. Powerful.

22:39

Yeah, and they tend to come from things that happened

22:41

organically and morphed into something else

22:43

and morphed into something else. And then it's this realization

22:46

of,

22:47

all I fucking need is us. Do

22:49

you think there's something for me there is, I

22:51

can bond and

22:54

share

22:55

with Kristen or in this space with

22:57

Monica. I have maybe a harder

22:59

time doing that with men.

23:01

Like there's probably been a lot of men that have

23:03

come through my life that could probably have helped me in

23:05

many ways that I couldn't either avail myself

23:07

to or it would look like cowardice or weakness,

23:10

whatever it is. I've been able to accept

23:12

women's power

23:14

and allow that to help me in a way I can't

23:16

with men. Yeah, I was in a couples

23:19

therapy session with Susan

23:21

night before last. And maybe

23:24

for the first time ever,

23:25

I realized about 40 minutes in, I hadn't

23:27

really said much and it was going great.

23:32

And they were kind of figuring

23:34

me out. And he was going, you know, I never really

23:37

put it together, you know, with Robert, he doesn't really

23:39

that bad. And I was kind of like,

23:40

this is great.

23:42

I'm not starting a fight to

23:44

show that something needs to

23:46

come up and be addressed so we can find

23:49

some homeostasis. I'm not trying

23:51

to stake my opinion with righteous

23:53

indignation. And basically the good

23:56

doctor who's, I think in senior,

23:58

he's just that blurry,

23:59

Oh, I was curious if that

24:02

was you on a Zoom with your therapist. Yeah,

24:04

because he respects himself. He's not sure.

24:06

I wondered if it was your therapist. Me

24:09

too. Because

24:11

it mirrored my session pretty well.

24:14

Anyway, Kenyon said, you know, from the

24:16

outside, it looks like you

24:18

have this series of missteps and

24:21

then you were in jail some institutions

24:24

and then you

24:25

did a superhero movie and your life

24:27

turned around. He goes, I track

24:29

that as just a byproduct of you

24:32

finally got into a

24:34

relationship with somebody who

24:38

understood how to meet

24:40

your needs without coddling you

24:43

and how to have separateness within your

24:45

unity and how to have definitive

24:49

black and white boundaries with you. I've observed

24:51

this, spending time with you and Susan.

24:53

When I'm around the two of you, I go, these

24:56

two were really made for each other. She

24:58

was made for each other.

25:02

How does she implement

25:04

boundaries? Can you give an example? Here's my

25:07

favorite one. I'll say this. When I'm in one

25:09

of my moods, she will

25:11

not engage.

25:13

She will not follow me down a rabbit

25:15

hole. And it comes

25:17

off to me as neglect. This

25:20

was one of the big kind of breakthroughs. I mean, you'd

25:23

think we'd have gotten to this before, but

25:25

you know, like you hear it and you say it and you

25:27

feel it and you agree to it and you sign

25:29

off and you check all the boxes, but you still haven't processed

25:32

it and integrated it. She is just

25:34

naturally

25:36

not prone to enmeshment

25:39

and dysfunction. And it

25:41

is stunning. It's like she's staring at the teacups

25:44

at Disneyland. She's like, yeah, I'm not getting on that ride. I'll

25:47

get nauseous. Why the fuck would I get on that ride

25:49

with him? Not to assign roles. And

25:51

again, I just think relationships

25:53

are everything, particularly

25:56

if the relationships are based

25:58

on a deep trust.

25:59

in how consistent we

26:02

will be with each other. Doesn't mean that

26:04

we can't fall away a field and be

26:06

admitted back, but we're not admitted back with the

26:08

same rules as before. We're constantly updating

26:11

and integrating this

26:13

thing because we're hell bent on improving

26:15

ourselves via each other.

26:18

So when you find someone that really can do that, so we

26:20

also try not to assign roles that she's

26:22

the sequential thinker and I'm the associate

26:24

of one because there are always combinations

26:27

of those, but generally

26:30

there are lanes. So it's not

26:32

uptight.

26:33

It's just super consistent. Have

26:35

we started yet? We're about to. We're

26:38

just, I only have three more. I

26:41

only have three more questions and then we'll start. I

26:46

guess I just want to take us next

26:48

after the wrestling match.

26:50

Now I'm scared it's gonna end. Thank

26:52

you. It's never gonna end, guys. It

26:55

certainly is gonna end with him on top because

26:57

while he has improved his martial arts skills

27:00

0% since then. But I'm twice

27:02

as strong as I was then. That has nothing to

27:04

do with any of that. I have been on a trajectory

27:07

of mastery. Will you tell people what

27:09

was your martial arts? No, I will not. Oh,

27:12

that's even deeper than the alcoholics.

27:14

No, it felt like a gratuitous ask. I'm

27:17

passing on that question. You

27:19

know what, I'm glad you're passing because then we would just probably end up

27:21

debating different martial arts. Who the fuck wants to

27:23

listen to that? And you would

27:24

be incorrect about all of it. I

27:26

concede. I idolize you, I concede.

27:29

I won't try to dominate you to get you to like me. Next

27:31

what happens in our story, which

27:33

is really, really important to me is I get to

27:35

be in one of your movies. And you're a

27:38

big part of why I got to be in that movie. The

27:40

judge, that was 10 years ago. Do you

27:42

realize that? Like right now that was 10 years ago.

27:45

Because Lincoln was three months old or something when

27:47

she came to set. I just figured that out this morning. Then

27:49

I had a panic attack. Then I drank more coffee and now

27:51

I'm back. You are as

27:53

well rounded and capable an actor

27:55

as I have or will ever work with. Oh

27:57

come on. And I think you.

27:59

You wouldn't hear it from me, because you already knew that I

28:02

loved you.

28:03

But I think by the time you

28:05

could tell that Duval was

28:08

acknowledging you. Now, part of it was that

28:10

you were at close proximity to him. And his

28:12

lawyer in the scene. No.

28:16

But even better is when I could tell he would start

28:18

talking shit about me and you would go

28:20

along with it. Which is when I actually

28:23

finally felt perfect. Your

28:26

job was done. Yeah. Probably the

28:28

highlight of that whole experience was Billy Bob Thornton

28:31

saying the internal dialogue of

28:33

Duval while he was sitting

28:36

there in the courtroom. And it went something like this.

28:38

I don't know how that horse bucked

28:40

Rex. He's a hell of a cowboy. I

28:43

got to try that sushi place that Donnie's talking about. Says

28:46

it's number one in the country, but I didn't like it

28:48

the first time. I got to try that again. To

28:52

watch Billy Bob just narrate what he

28:54

was thinking. I don't think I've ever seen anything better. That's

28:56

the other thing too. I love this

28:59

idea of, you know, I'm number one on the call

29:01

sheet. It's called The Judges About Duval, but

29:03

it's my fucking movie. Now Duval

29:05

is

29:07

the legendary artist in this movie.

29:09

You come in, you start kind of like

29:11

getting in Duval's good graces, which is damn

29:13

near impossible. And I'm like, this is good

29:16

because you're really fucking good. And

29:19

then there's Billy Bob. That

29:21

is so in his own category as

29:23

a person, a human and an actor that

29:25

you go like, no matter how good any

29:28

of us think we are, we always want

29:30

to just be who we are and where we are. There's

29:32

always this tertiary element, which

29:35

is if you seek the opportunity, the

29:37

opportunity to just appreciate someone

29:40

like Billy Bob. Who's floating in on a magic

29:42

carpet. Yeah, but also by

29:44

his own admission, the most neurotic

29:47

person we'll ever meet. So in a way, it's

29:49

also shows our

29:51

neurosis informs our ability

29:53

to do certain things well, maybe

29:56

even out at the bleeding edge of the cultural

29:58

expectation.

29:59

but there is always a cost

30:02

and managing that cost is what makes

30:04

you cool. That's what's actually great

30:07

about Billy Bob is he is

30:09

as comfortable in his own skin as you could ever be

30:11

while being very forthright

30:13

about all of his phobias, fears.

30:16

I'll give you one example and I think he would

30:18

not mind this. Here's prime example

30:20

is he'll go like, you know, to move out of that hotel room,

30:22

there's too much fabric in there. I

30:24

was thinking all the diseases and everything. It's so much

30:27

fabric. So much fabric, you know, with all those

30:29

pathogens and airborne pollens. So

30:32

that's what he was wrestling with. If you're lucky

30:34

in life in the middle of any moment

30:36

where you're being spotlighted, you can imagine

30:38

how much cooler it would be if the person you're

30:40

talking about just showed up. Oh, yeah.

30:43

And that is a guy who it's impossible

30:46

that he wouldn't be one of your best interviews

30:48

ever. Billy Bob. Just giving you an idea.

30:50

I know. We were going to go to

30:52

his house out in the West Side at one

30:54

point. Wait, oh, a long time. Yeah, yeah. By the way, Jane

30:56

Fonda, great. The guy that you

30:59

were all just talking to about the Supreme

31:01

Court. Yes,

31:01

Michael Waldman. That guy's incredible,

31:03

no? I have to tell you, there's a lot of different

31:06

podcasts out there. And I love

31:08

making sport a podcast. I need

31:10

to, whatever it is that I'm doing, you know,

31:12

I need to act like... Elevate it. Exactly.

31:15

Right? Yeah, like on Sam Jones, you said you hate impressionists.

31:18

Solely because you can't do any impressions. Yes.

31:21

But that to me was so definitive

31:23

because you were bringing something where you

31:25

are so prepared. When

31:28

you say we're not experts, truth be told

31:30

is everybody loves an expert.

31:32

But

31:32

to be a generalist where you can actually

31:35

hold these kind of conversations for

31:37

the layman, I'll call myself just for five seconds,

31:40

the layman, who's in his

31:43

dry sauna. Yes, yes, yes.

31:45

For 40 minutes just going, wow, I didn't really

31:47

know any of this. And this is so

31:50

important. Agreed. Was that the most challenging

31:52

role of your career playing the layman for 30

31:55

seconds? Challenging. By

31:57

the way, you are going to be...

31:59

my vocal coach for this next

32:02

job I do. I'll tell you why offline.

32:04

All I have to do is listen to you do this endless

32:07

advertisement copy. I could just

32:09

use it, but I would rather give

32:12

you the honor of actually, you might be my

32:14

acting coach too. Oh my God, I have so

32:16

many hats on this. Yeah, well the acting

32:18

part is vertigo. Am

32:21

I gonna be somehow involved in Hitchcock

32:24

now? You dragging me to all the greatest parties. I just

32:26

need you to go to the top of really tall

32:28

buildings and tell me what it's like.

32:29

Are

32:32

you honored? I'm incredibly honored. What I'd like

32:34

to do is what if you could give me the medical condition

32:36

of vertigo and make me do all your blocking?

32:39

Like send Shepard up, he's got really bad vertigo.

32:41

Put him on that ladder, let's see what would really happen. First

32:44

of all, that is literally beneath you. No.

32:47

I would want, by the way, and I would take this seriously

32:50

too. Wait really quick, Trevor, your friend is here and

32:52

the producer on Downy Stream

32:54

Cars. He's been with us forever. The great thing about

32:56

Trevor was he cold called Team

32:59

Downy.

32:59

Fuck yes. Oh I love that. I've been

33:02

waiting for someone like you to enter my world like that. Excuse

33:04

me, that was me. I know but you're too rich

33:06

now, you don't do a fucking thing. Oh!

33:09

She's got the house across the street. Oh

33:11

how the mighty have fallen.

33:13

I did buy the house so I am done. Yeah,

33:16

she's done. She's building a

33:18

house across the street. Robert. This

33:20

is the American dream. It really is.

33:23

Yes. It really is. And I think you

33:25

and I, because this is one of the topics I wanna talk about.

33:27

Do we wrap everything up? Time to switch

33:29

gears. I'm sorry, am I running out? Ernie, Ernie. Yeah.

33:32

Vertigo's done. Vertigo done, okay. It's

33:34

not vertigo, I'll tell you what it is. But

33:37

he is someone from Indiana, Michigan

33:39

area and he is a retired

33:41

detective. Ooh. And I want

33:44

to talk a lot of shit. I need to be able

33:46

to improvise and you are going to

33:48

be, I don't wanna say dialect coach that's

33:49

beneath you, you're going to be my acting coach for

33:51

it. Oh my God. Can I be

33:53

on a microphone somewhere in these scenes?

33:56

Yeah, okay. Can

33:57

I be your stylist? Oh, absolutely.

34:00

And will I only wear your small

34:02

clothes, deep frame clothes? See, that's a new

34:04

twist on this guy. You don't have a lot of retired

34:06

detectives who cross dress in micro

34:09

clothing. So many things,

34:11

yeah. It's not just that you dress like a gal,

34:13

it's that you dress as a very small gal that doesn't

34:15

fit you. I have a lot of dysmorphia. It's

34:17

a lot of different things.

34:18

Trevor, that's where we were and we covered. Trevor,

34:21

yes. So Trevor Cole called Team Downey,

34:23

which is incredible. And lo these

34:25

many years later. How many? You

34:29

were there during the judge? Technically, yeah. Technically,

34:31

yes. They let me upset though. Yeah, you weren't ready.

34:34

Well, truly, you weren't ready. None of us

34:36

were ready. By the way, I'll tell you, by accident,

34:38

Trevor wound up being the only

34:40

assistant that has ever

34:43

been on a Chris Nolan set.

34:44

Oh! Wow,

34:47

congratulations, that's huge.

34:50

And even for Chris, it was such an

34:52

anomaly that when he saw him,

34:55

wondering why it didn't just disappear.

34:58

It was almost like that Chaplin thing. And

35:01

Trevor told me what the moment was like because he had

35:03

had a reason to be there at a support day and I had cleared

35:05

it. But I think Trevor wanted to like just put a lampshade

35:08

on his head and pretend he wasn't there. But

35:10

at that point, hair director knew

35:12

who Trevor was. And he's not really

35:14

that uptight. It's just, you make a rule

35:17

because it's all about discipline.

35:20

Anyway, congratulations. You were in

35:22

Chris Nolan's eye line and you did not

35:24

have to evaporate.

35:25

Wow. You're strong.

35:27

We're gonna have you in separately too. Spilled

35:30

the tea or whatever they say. You

35:32

could come on.

35:35

Stay tuned for more Armchair

35:38

Expert, if you dare.

35:43

What's that fucking crazy dog

35:45

of yours name that we met? Frank.

35:53

Frank. Are we gonna have any cutaways

35:55

to Frank here? Always.

35:58

We've got like a treasure trove of cut.

35:59

Yeah, you know if you don't mind that we

36:02

recycle a few of them. Okay, we're really

36:04

gonna do that We're gonna have to add

36:06

that I would appreciate it So all I want to do I want

36:08

to thank you publicly because you were

36:10

really instrumental in me getting to be in that movie I

36:13

became best buddies with Dina Freo.

36:15

I fucking love him so much. I know

36:17

you do too. That's another You could

36:19

just go down the Dina Freo rabbit

36:21

hole and by the way No one is gonna

36:24

be more pissed off that you're my acting coach for

36:26

my next

36:26

job No, no,

36:28

Jeremy's wrong is gonna be a little bum to Jeremy's

36:30

too busy. Okay. Okay Jeremy's too

36:32

big. All right. Okay. Well, okay Yeah, maybe you

36:34

guys can I say something to you? I do

36:37

need to do a little sidebar day one

36:39

of shooting almost there's a funeral

36:41

Jeremy's there He's not even working that

36:43

day and he's taking pictures and he's in character

36:45

and from jump everyone

36:48

and be like, oh god Look at him. He's so

36:50

into it and blah blah blah and look where

36:52

he is now Oh, yeah, so I always

36:55

want to say for anyone who wants to cast

36:57

aspersions

36:57

or have opinions about what someone's

37:00

process is Just does that process

37:02

work or not? Yeah, totally That's one of my

37:04

favorite things you would have no idea because you

37:06

just started listening to the show in anticipation of

37:08

coming here Which I do appreciate that's more work than most

37:11

people do but had you been listening to all 600

37:13

episodes you would know that I Regularly

37:15

used you as an example, which is you

37:18

had the confidence to go like look I've tried every

37:20

version I was Charlie Chaplin

37:22

add some god knows what to the mix Charlie

37:25

plus cocaine plus whatever but you

37:27

did that

37:27

you did Method you lived Charlie

37:29

Chaplin and then you've had total chaos

37:32

I've heard people say that

37:34

the earpiece is a cheat and

37:36

I've watched you with an earpiece and I'm like I

37:38

don't know how this guy's doing. He's improv-ing

37:41

with us. He's also got all these insane

37:43

speeches that are coming out perfectly You're fucking

37:45

emotional. I'm like I've stood on

37:47

the business end of it and it's insanely

37:49

moving Yeah, whatever process

37:52

gets the results. There's part of what we're doing That's

37:54

really important and needs to be revered

37:57

and then there's part of what we're doing where we're essentially

37:59

game show hosts

37:59

And I think that sweet spot

38:02

between how serious is this really?

38:04

But strangely enough, going back to Nolan, the

38:06

Nolan thing was like being off book for

38:09

a three act play. Oh, my God. And that's

38:11

only because I was wondering,

38:14

am I one of those people who has

38:16

lost the ability to function because

38:19

I've become so lazy and have so many

38:21

crutches? And answer was a definitive

38:24

no.

38:24

I am intact. You're fully functional

38:27

and firing on all six cylinders. Wow. I

38:31

mean, we knew that within the first five seconds of you coming in here.

38:33

I want to apologize for coming in a little scatter shot

38:36

and Rob's. This,

38:39

uh, this coffee is making me

38:41

ill. But I'm going to

38:43

finish it because I also know when

38:45

I saw you in the driveway, you've probably been dreaming about

38:48

me since you were 14. 12th. Oh,

38:50

wow. Oh, wow. So right in the

38:52

puberty transition.

38:53

Yeah, those dreams are different. Okay,

38:55

confusing topic. Do you want to do a three way leg

38:57

lock with me and Dax later? Yes,

38:59

please. Okay. Listen, when this

39:01

concludes 9 or 10 p.m. tonight, we

39:04

will be going out into the grass back there and I'm going

39:06

to get out of these white slacks and it's going to be a battle

39:09

royale. We're going to see. The idea

39:11

that you think it's going to make it to the ground

39:13

this time is what I find enticing. I

39:15

love it. Okay.

39:17

You didn't let me finish publicly thanking you. You're

39:19

going to think this is hyperbolic, that I'm trying to just

39:21

flatter you. This is not, this is truly my story. If

39:24

I ever wrote an autobiography, this would be part of it. You

39:26

fought for me to be in that movie. I got to be in it. It

39:28

was an incredible experience. Top few

39:31

of my professional life being in that movie

39:33

and getting to talk with Duval and meet these people

39:35

is incredible. The studio really liked me as

39:37

it turned out. They wanted to see what I wanted to

39:39

do.

39:40

I got to direct Chips literally

39:43

because of that movie. And

39:46

what a fucking gift. I mean, if that

39:48

little piece doesn't come first, I don't get

39:51

to do that. And it was the most incredible

39:53

thing ever. And you gave that to me and I thank

39:55

you for it sincerely.

39:56

We help each other consciously

39:59

or not, right? which I guess means we also

40:01

hurt each other consciously or not, that's the thing to

40:03

keep an eye on. Yeah, I guess it goes both ways.

40:05

God, this tastes like Frank's asshole. As

40:08

you

40:09

chug it. Okay.

40:14

If you look at that fucking $50,000 watch one more time, I'm

40:19

leaving. This is the first time I looked at it. And it's

40:21

because I'm trying to be conscious. Twice would

40:23

be too many. This is a $1,000 fake old watch. Okay,

40:26

are you giving me that one? It is yours. I

40:29

want you to have it. I'd like you to have this alligator

40:31

clip. You know, I, cause I have some questions

40:33

for you motherfuckers too. Oh my

40:35

God. Good. You brought a binder. I have a crotch

40:38

full of Nicker at wrappers.

40:40

Yeah, boy, get the two of us together and

40:42

just someone's gotta be walking around with a 50 gallon trash

40:44

can

40:45

with all the fucking nickety. No,

40:47

you are hundreds of pieces a day. Did

40:49

he just take the watch off and then put it back

40:51

on? I was gonna throw it to you and I realized you were out.

40:54

Don't think about this answer. Who's more neurotic,

40:56

him or me? I know him

40:59

better than you. So I should say you because

41:01

he'll be mad at me. I won't be mad, but

41:03

I think you're more neurotic than me. I say this

41:05

also about you behind your back. I

41:07

don't know how we would evaluate it, but let's say

41:10

that there's a spectrum, zero to 10

41:12

for addiction. And I got it pretty

41:14

bad. I think I'm probably an eight, but

41:17

I'll give you this credit. I think you're a 10.

41:20

I think you're the most addicty

41:22

motherfucker I've ever met in my life. He'll get going

41:24

on these gums, Monica. You've never seen anything like

41:26

it. He's just endlessly pulling

41:29

them out and putting them in his mouth and putting more

41:31

in. You can get wild.

41:32

That's funny that you say that because when I watched

41:35

the movie, Senior, I

41:37

thought, oh, his addiction

41:40

is more based in his life or

41:44

like his youth

41:45

as opposed to his chemicals.

41:48

I thought the opposite. Oh, you thought like genetically,

41:51

but just think his dad, we learned in Senior,

41:53

an addict. First of all, she's right. Oh, okay,

41:55

so let's just go on that basis. Wonderful. Then

41:58

I have no follow-up. Is that gonna be it?

41:59

Okay for you. Absolutely. Her

42:02

win is my win. We're a team.

42:03

But you're the same. You're the same with the gum. You

42:05

guys are probably on the same level. That's what

42:07

I'm saying is if you put us in his trailer

42:10

with an espresso machine and unlimited

42:12

nicotine, I'm just saying, lock the door. Because

42:15

it's gonna all get consumed in the next hour and

42:17

a half. The great thing about us is

42:19

from the time we've met, we

42:22

have been on the same trajectory. If there's never

42:24

been a night where you and I were going to

42:27

go into the fuzzy deeps of shadow

42:29

play,

42:30

we have been basically sound

42:32

of mind best as we could be. Since

42:35

we met and we've been on that path.

42:37

There's just two worlds. There's the shadow

42:39

world and there's this.

42:40

Yeah. That's it. Yeah.

42:43

And you're trying, I'm trying to have

42:45

the, I still need something. I need to

42:47

be wrestling my caffeine consumption

42:50

or my nicotine. I gotta be busy with that.

42:52

Yeah. Well what I also like, look around

42:55

at the people that are charged with

42:57

till death do us part

42:58

with you. Wife, kids, closest

43:01

associates. If they are at peace

43:03

with how we're clucking along, no matter how

43:06

much coal we're shoving into our weirdo

43:08

little engine, it's like you go,

43:10

okay, I always look for when

43:12

are the people closest to me

43:14

seeming out of balance because of my

43:17

lack of integrity. That's

43:19

when I know, all right, I gotta shift something here. We're all

43:21

just weird animals. It's fun. Yeah.

43:24

Okay, that actually brings me to senior.

43:27

I text you today telling you I watched

43:30

it while I was working out

43:31

and was totally crying, while

43:34

lifting, I recommend I was

43:36

dead lifting quite a bit away with tears

43:38

streaming down my face as I watched you and

43:40

your father in the bed. I had the same thing.

43:42

You know, like my dad got diagnosed with cancer in

43:45

August. I was with him nonstop in Michigan.

43:47

He died December 31st. So it was like three

43:49

months of- What year was it? Yeah,

43:52

I remember. Yep, so much of it

43:54

reminded me of that experience and

43:57

it's such a multifaceted

43:59

experience. experience for me and

44:01

I'm gonna guess for you, which is first

44:04

and foremost the amount of gratitude I

44:06

have that I was there is

44:10

Maybe the apex of gratitude. I can't

44:12

believe I was there and I did it right

44:14

I have done so many things wrong and there's

44:17

so many moments in my life I couldn't have been there but

44:19

just to get to do that is an enormous

44:22

Gift, would you agree? A

44:24

hundred percent and again speaking

44:26

of partnerships. I Initially

44:29

started thinking of conceiving letting

44:31

senior happen kind of as a defense mechanism

44:34

and an avoidance technique I realized now

44:36

and

44:37

then at a certain point between Chris

44:39

Smith and Kevin Ford and then really

44:42

Susan had this moment She goes, you know You

44:44

can't make a senior documentary

44:46

like a senior movie like the last hour

44:48

for us this very disjointed Nonlinear

44:51

kind of fest. Yeah, she goes you

44:53

have to think of this in a 3x structure And you have to

44:55

start thinking about

44:57

your closure with your dad whether

44:59

it's monitored or not because otherwise

45:02

forget that it won't make sense to anyone who ever watches

45:04

it it won't make sense to you and so that

45:06

last trip to New York and the fact that

45:08

Exton our son wanted to go

45:11

it

45:11

was almost like I got to do

45:14

it With a generation

45:16

of downies that are untouched by

45:18

the ugliness of addiction. Yeah Yeah,

45:21

and so it's almost like I needed to be filmed

45:24

Monitored and graded to doing

45:26

it. Yes order to do

45:29

it. And by the way, so did your dad

45:32

Yeah, which is even deeper.

45:34

It's wild to see how much movies

45:36

is your dad's life. He couldn't Frame

45:39

anything outside of that Well, that's

45:41

what we realized too was he was only

45:43

going to talk to us through the language of what

45:46

film he was doing at That point in his life. Yeah,

45:48

and because at the end the film he was doing

45:50

was the film about his life He

45:53

needed to do something else because it made no sense.

45:55

It wasn't a film he was doing. Yeah I

45:57

mean look, you know, it was very pyrandello

45:59

play with this

45:59

in the play, all that stuff. But the crazy

46:02

thing is being at the Castro

46:05

Theater in San Francisco, where

46:09

he had gone up for one of his films

46:11

or premiered there. Might've been Greaser's Palace in like 72.

46:14

And I realized that that film had screened

46:17

there. And now I'm watching a screening of

46:19

Senior from the back, looking at

46:21

it on the screen with these kind of like set

46:23

pieces and stuff back there. And I had

46:25

one of those definitive quantum

46:28

moments. And sometimes you have these on set.

46:30

Sometimes you have them in life, or you have them at transitions

46:33

of life, or you just go, just stand here. If

46:35

you can understand this,

46:38

because this is actually what life is.

46:41

If you're lucky, you get to actually

46:43

just stand there for a second and see this thing.

46:45

And you hold space and time

46:48

and grief, nuts. Yeah.

46:50

Yeah. It's really beautiful. The

46:52

thing that I started crying, thinking

46:54

about is it felt to me like the movie

46:57

was

46:58

maybe one last ditch effort to

47:00

understand your dad, as we try to understand

47:03

our dads and ourselves. That's the journey,

47:05

right? Even your dad says it in the movie. He's like, I

47:07

have no clue who I am and I'm not gonna know. By the way,

47:09

were you trying to lure me in

47:11

with a Fugazi so I could tell you

47:14

you're wearing a really cool watch and you could tell me

47:16

it was low rent? Are you trying to play? I

47:18

wanted to admit to you that it's a fake gold watch. That's

47:20

all. I didn't want to be deceptive to you. It's

47:22

a fake gold watch. So you wore

47:25

it

47:25

so that I would ask you and you would tell me

47:27

it was a fake? I wear it every day, every

47:29

single day. Whether you're here or not. And by the

47:31

way, also, we exist when you're not here. Do

47:33

you know that, Robert? It doesn't seem necessary.

47:36

When you're not here, we're still here. Can

47:38

you believe that? That's your mistake. Well,

47:41

now you've fucked up the most important thing I want to

47:44

say about this. I'd seen you. I know what

47:46

you're doing. I doubt it. Monica, he's trying to avoid

47:48

this. I'm not. We'll get back to

47:49

it. Okay. Do you have it? Because I don't want you to

47:51

listen. I thought it was so beautiful that your

47:53

son, how old was he? 11, 12?

47:56

He's 11 now, so he was eight

47:58

and a half, nine. with clarity

48:01

saying, I wanna be there so

48:04

that I have memories for

48:06

when he passes. To hear a very

48:08

small person be able to articulate

48:11

that, showing the growth

48:13

between the three generations,

48:16

truly.

48:16

Maybe the only growth. No,

48:18

it's not, that's not true. You see

48:21

the vulnerability increase throughout

48:24

those generations, and that's the moment where you're like,

48:26

oh,

48:26

yeah, it's compounding. It's been done. The

48:28

growth is compounded. And now let me,

48:31

because we're all in this same kind of business

48:33

where we're always doing something and we're here in

48:35

this moment, but I try to always divorce myself

48:38

from the idea of what will it be like

48:40

when this is a product, but

48:42

from the second I saw that scene

48:45

with Eckston, where he says that and

48:47

the whole audience just gets choked.

48:50

Yes. I was like, we got

48:52

him. And I hate to say it

48:54

because there I went back again. But you're

48:56

doing two things. I'm doing two things. You have to

48:58

do two things. Think act three

49:00

in this thing is really gonna work. And by

49:02

the way, act three is my fucking dad

49:05

dying. Yeah, no, it really works. Act

49:07

three is a rocket ship, dude. That's when I started crying.

49:09

You got Cat Stevens montage, fucked me

49:11

up. That's right. And then you got Nick Drake, fuck

49:14

you. What a cheap shot. Nick Drake.

49:15

Come on. We're dusting off Nick Drake

49:17

to fuck with Dax. While he's lifting his weights,

49:19

trying to get big, be a big boy, press his friend

49:21

Robert. I know. Let me tell you what my

49:23

conclusion now that you've avoided it. To

49:26

me, it felt like you were trying another

49:28

attempt at really understanding this man. Your

49:30

father was very interesting and original

49:33

and peculiar. And I think if I had to

49:35

sum up what he might've said,

49:37

and this is what made me cry. I

49:39

think his point of view was, life

49:41

is a hundred year long joke. And

49:44

then in the scene I realized, no,

49:46

it's a fucking tragedy. We live

49:48

in a fucking tragedy.

49:51

You love people, they die, you die. Everyone

49:54

loves you. And you try to laugh your

49:56

way through it. You try to joke because

49:58

it is a tragedy.

49:59

But it catches up with us all the time. The joke

50:02

turns on us a lot. I mean, even

50:04

like when you discover drugs, you're like, yes, what

50:06

a joke. This is hilarious. Now I feel like a

50:08

cartoon character. You know, now I'm really

50:10

getting one over on the universe. I'm having a blast

50:12

in this technicolor, kaleidoscopic dream

50:14

of mine. And then it catches up with you because

50:17

again, it's a fucking tragedy. The joyful

50:19

participation in the suffering of mankind

50:22

is really what

50:23

I got. And you can either laugh

50:25

or cry through the whole thing. We know where it's going.

50:27

The other day I sent some

50:30

really, I thought very funny, I'll

50:32

play them for you after the bit. And

50:34

somebody said, oh, this is going to be in Eckstens'

50:37

movie, Junior. About you. Ha ha

50:39

ha ha. That

50:42

definitely crossed my mind too, is that you will

50:44

most certainly, and you'll have to be a subject

50:46

of his exploration of you. Who even

50:48

knows what a documentary will be like in 30 years. That's

50:51

true.

50:52

I think it'll all come around.

50:53

I really liked about the movie. It means

50:55

it's so beautiful, of course, but

50:57

the beginning is a little like, what's

51:00

going on? You are like, I don't.

51:02

It's like his movies. Well, exactly.

51:05

And kind of, I think his life,

51:08

like you said, it's chaos and you're going

51:10

from one thing to another and he's directing within

51:12

the directing. And it's like, what is going on?

51:14

And then at some point

51:16

it becomes lucid

51:18

and moving and

51:21

poignant. And I feel like, oh, that's

51:23

the trajectory of his life. It

51:25

kind of mirrors that in a beautiful way, I

51:27

think. Whether you do that on purpose or not.

51:29

Well, Susan Downey was involved. So the execution

51:32

of that cut is very purposeful. And Chris Smith,

51:35

he and Susan really hit it off. They're

51:37

both just really high level thinkers.

51:40

It was so funny when you're saying that, I was just thinking, it's kind

51:42

of like life. It starts off like this

51:45

confluence of probabilities. And

51:47

then as it gets more and more real and

51:50

closer and closer to its finite

51:52

nature, hopefully, if you're lucky,

51:55

I'd much rather have it begin in chaos

51:57

or even begin with promise.

51:59

and then reorganized at a higher level. As

52:02

opposed to it being reversed. Where

52:04

life just gets more and more and more untethered and chaotic.

52:07

We know those stories and we saw them. I

52:09

mean, just even look back from 2020 until quote

52:11

unquote last month.

52:14

How many relationships in the crucible

52:16

of the pandemic became the

52:19

chaos that wasn't managed and

52:21

then other things kind of fused together

52:23

in a way that I think was probably better

52:26

than if it hadn't happened. Yeah, if

52:28

you made it through. I barely made

52:29

it through. That's why it's great to you. Like

52:32

none of that matters. I remember at the time

52:35

reflecting on you because you know this

52:38

idea that you get long term recovery and

52:41

that it is like a treasury bond is the

52:43

biggest joke in the world. However,

52:46

as humans, I think we're conditioned to say

52:49

this thing that seems stable.

52:52

I can absolutely count

52:54

on it to be a solid unmovable

52:56

object. And so in another

52:59

way, I hate to say it, but what a great

53:01

service I did for so many people for

53:03

so many years when I showed this

53:05

is how messy things can

53:07

get. This is how quickly they can get that

53:09

messy. This is how

53:12

much freedom you can lose in a short

53:14

amount of time. Why don't I volunteer for

53:16

that? Let me act that out for you

53:18

all. No, no, I didn't put my hand

53:20

up. No, your hand was

53:21

up. Yeah. But it wasn't consciously

53:24

up and consciously doesn't matter. That's

53:26

not how things work around here. Can I ask

53:28

you one question about jail? I had one question about

53:30

jail. Yeah. I've never asked you about jail. Oh,

53:32

well, I actually

53:33

have two questions. But one is

53:35

how long were you in there before

53:37

you actually accepted? Oh,

53:40

I'm actually in here. I can imagine

53:42

myself because the denial muscle

53:44

in us is the strongest, especially for

53:46

apex addiction, right? Yeah. This

53:49

isn't happening. Those are police lights behind me. They're

53:51

not going to give me a breathalyzer. I'm not carrying

53:53

any. You're just in denial of everything. I'm

53:55

curious. Like how long before I'm going to

53:57

see if without thinking about it, I'm just going

53:59

to.

53:59

try to give you the flashcards.

54:02

I'm in court, I'm being over

54:05

sentenced by an angry judge

54:08

and at some point he said something in Latin.

54:11

Oh boy. And I thought he was casting a

54:13

spell on them. And

54:18

he was. Two weeks later I'm in

54:20

a place called Delano which

54:23

is a receiving center where

54:25

they decide where you're going to go.

54:27

Arguably the most dangerous place I've ever been

54:29

in my life because nobody is designated

54:32

if they're a level one, two, three, or four.

54:35

Everyone's there. Criminal, yes. And you could

54:37

just feel the evil in the

54:39

air and that was no

54:41

trouble at all because it was kind of

54:43

like just being in a really bad neighborhood

54:46

and there was no opportunity there, there

54:48

was only threats. So yes,

54:50

everyone is going to take your wallet, so watch

54:52

it. And I remember walking out at

54:55

one point when I popped out of my cell

54:57

to go to the shower. By the way, this would be the best soundbite.

55:01

And I didn't know it but I was a little spun

55:03

out and I had my underwear on backwards that

55:06

put the entry area. An

55:09

invitation really, you warm as an invitation. And I remember

55:11

eliciting some strong chuckles

55:14

and jeers from my fellow inmates.

55:17

And once I had gotten through that, then I was

55:19

transferred. And then the rest was

55:21

walking onto the yard that you're going to be doing

55:24

more than a year on

55:25

for the first

55:27

time. The closest thing I can

55:29

associate it to is to being

55:32

sent to a distant planet where there is

55:34

no way home until the

55:36

planet's aligned. But the short answer

55:39

is two weeks. And I would

55:40

say this, I hate to say it, about

55:43

anything for anyone

55:45

regarding any transition because

55:48

we are programmed to

55:50

within a short amount of time be able

55:52

to adjust to things that are seemingly

55:54

impossible. And

55:56

for me, there's worse things that could have happened than being sent to an institution

55:59

by far.

55:59

However, we can only go

56:02

by what we know. And I would imagine

56:04

if I had to guess that was the worst thing that happened

56:06

to me. Day 15 was a ball.

56:08

By day 15, I'm playing. Literally

56:12

by day 15, I'm dialed in. Yeah,

56:14

this is my question. What was your strategy? The

56:16

most important thing. Because you're very cute.

56:18

Thanks, hon. I was quite nervous.

56:21

As long as you have the willingness to do harm,

56:24

it is unlikely that you will be targeted. So

56:27

it really is that thing of what is the difference

56:29

between

56:29

acting like you're willing to do harm

56:32

and actually being willing to do harm. I remember

56:34

the extreme example. And whoever said this is

56:36

an idiot, they go, always have a plan

56:38

to kill whoever you meet.

56:40

Okay. Which

56:43

is probably one of those like safety experts

56:46

who was like a black ops guy or whatever. It's

56:48

like, fuck, shut up. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

56:51

Yeah, I hear a lot of that stuff. Yeah, I bet. Yeah,

56:55

two weeks.

56:56

Okay. How did you friend up with people?

56:58

How did you decide? Okay, I'm gonna try to pull up. Motherfucker,

57:01

you don't have friends in your joint. You

57:03

got acquaintances. Okay, how'd you pick

57:05

your acquaintances? What's this character's name

57:07

by the way? Huh? Clyde

57:09

Bovin.

57:11

I've been

57:13

in and out of 32 maximum

57:16

penitentiaries. Play stupid

57:18

games, win stupid prizes. I'm

57:21

Cliff Bovine or Clyde. I

57:23

love Bovine. Just

57:27

to wrap this up, there's a handball court, depending

57:30

on what the politics were is when whatever

57:32

your particular pigmentation was had access

57:34

to that court. And like anything,

57:37

do you ever see Midnight Express? Oh,

57:39

yes. It's kind of like

57:42

you

57:42

could say, how long did it take him to get

57:44

used to being in a Turkish prison? Two weeks. Okay,

57:49

that's the biggest fear I think I've ever had that

57:51

I've by the grace of God avoided. It's

57:53

shocking, I never was in there. I think I would have gotten killed.

57:56

I'm telling you right now, you would have been fine. Oh

57:58

wow, maybe I'll go.

57:59

Okay, we're getting into Downey's Dream

58:02

Cars now. Senior's incredible. Is it

58:04

nominated? It's gonna be nominated? We don't

58:06

know how that works. Do we know? Is this the

58:08

season? I mean, is this the season? First of all.

58:10

I wanna cast my vote then. I think it's beautiful. Great,

58:12

great. First of all, who fucking cares? Sure,

58:15

sure. Second of all,

58:16

if and when it goes down

58:18

this trajectory, I'll get behind

58:20

it. I think Chris Smith is one of our

58:23

great American storytellers.

58:25

Was he in it? You see him once or twice,

58:27

but I mean, back to American movie. Oh

58:30

my God. To Jimin A. Whoa, whoa, whoa,

58:32

whoa, whoa. To 100 foot wave, to

58:34

executing Tiger King. He also

58:36

did American Home,

58:39

which is an incredibly weird documentary about

58:41

four bizarre homes. I urge you to watch

58:43

it. Oh. One of the dudes designed

58:45

the world of tomorrow at Disneyland in

58:47

the sixties, and he turned his whole house into

58:49

a world of tomorrow, and he can drive his recliner

58:52

around the living room and he crashes it. Oh wow.

58:54

You would love it. Even things I don't know about him,

58:56

and I'm crazy about everything.

58:59

He is an incredible person and would be meaningful

59:01

to me for anything

59:04

that came his way as a result. Yes, yes.

59:06

I already got a fucking Emmy. I don't need another one. I

59:08

don't remember what. Ally McBeal? Probably.

59:11

Probably.

59:11

Are you almost an EGOT? Not just yet.

59:13

What do you need? I'll get there. Grammy.

59:17

We'll get you one. We'll get you one for this podcast.

59:19

Oh my God, this is not impossible. It's not.

59:21

I've got like three questions I would never ask you in real life,

59:24

but now that I have you sequestered here. I'm

59:26

here to help. Can I say something? Can I just do

59:28

a quick assessment of this episode?

59:31

I don't know what we've got in the first half hour.

59:33

I think it's fucking trash. I'm gonna

59:35

leave it to you. And I know I'm wrong, but I also

59:38

wanna lead into the wrongness because this thing

59:40

needs to fucking hum from jump. This

59:42

is because you grew up in a movie house

59:45

and all you can do is see. Your

59:48

brain is formatted in a three act. That is how your brain works.

59:50

You're gonna have to trust us that we know how these work.

59:53

Is there a crawl? A crawl? What's

59:55

that? Like a credits crawl? Are

59:58

we just starting with action? Because I don't know.

59:59

I don't see where that is if we wanna do that. There'll be

1:00:02

some light chit chat off mic and

1:00:04

then Monica will seamlessly integrate that

1:00:06

into. It's going really well. Yeah, this is an

1:00:08

incredible. Of course, I don't show up for things

1:00:10

that don't go well. All right, I do have some questions

1:00:12

though that have been burning a hole in my. Boring alert,

1:00:15

let's go. Okay, you

1:00:17

have to forgive me.

1:00:18

I'm from Michigan on a dirt road. Hollywood

1:00:20

was a very exciting thing for me. The outsiders

1:00:23

was a very exciting thing for me. Everything

1:00:25

that was happening in the 80s in movies was

1:00:27

very fucking exciting. So for me,

1:00:29

forgive me, the notion that all of you were going

1:00:31

to the same high school, to Santa Monica high school,

1:00:34

and then I have a director from parenthood who told me he

1:00:36

was once in a class C between you and

1:00:38

Rob Lowe. And his chances

1:00:40

of getting a girl to look at him were fucking 0%,

1:00:43

0.0% to me is so amusing.

1:00:48

What, you had the Sheen brothers at Sam

1:00:50

O'Hye? We had Ramon Estes,

1:00:53

who is the most eccentric

1:00:56

of the Sheen brothers. He taught me how to tap

1:00:59

dance when we

1:01:01

did Oklahoma the musical.

1:01:03

Oh my Lord. He is one of the

1:01:06

all time great humans on

1:01:08

earth. Do we have the Penn brothers there? They

1:01:10

were gone. Sean's

1:01:13

older than he is. Charlie

1:01:15

might've just been coming in. Me

1:01:17

and Ramon were in the same

1:01:18

grade. What about Chris there? Chris

1:01:21

might've been out. I think that some of that is

1:01:23

storied because it's in like a roughly

1:01:26

somewhere near class of 83. But

1:01:28

I wouldn't know because I never graduated. By

1:01:30

the way, I wasn't looking around going, I wonder

1:01:33

what other motherfuckers here are gonna be

1:01:35

of note down the road.

1:01:37

My money's

1:01:39

on this guy. I was

1:01:41

scaling the fence after

1:01:44

I did a teacher's assistant

1:01:46

with Mr. Jellison, the greatest theater

1:01:48

arts teacher of all time, and leave. And

1:01:50

by the way, there were

1:01:52

easier ways to get out. It was just

1:01:54

the only place that I knew they weren't

1:01:56

going to be expecting me to try to ditch

1:01:58

school. Okay.

1:01:59

I would also have been a 35 or 40 foot tall

1:02:02

chain link fence. I would ditch school,

1:02:04

I would go smoke a joint, I would come back

1:02:06

in around fourth, fifth period because

1:02:09

Janay Gravino, the object of my affection,

1:02:12

had a typing class that I would

1:02:14

try to bust into. You'd have thought

1:02:16

I'd have learned at least to type. No.

1:02:18

Were all the girls, just be

1:02:20

honest, they were obsessed with you? No.

1:02:23

Besides Janay, because that's why you wanted her? We should

1:02:26

do a

1:02:26

whole other episode just about Janay,

1:02:28

but there was one point where

1:02:30

I wanna say, my life is

1:02:32

due to three girls from Santa

1:02:34

Monica High School, Kelly McReynolds, Amber

1:02:37

Gilbert, and most importantly, Heidi

1:02:39

Kozak. Okay. I think

1:02:41

there was at one point where I thought I was dating all

1:02:43

three of them, then they found out and they all decided

1:02:46

to get together and ditch me. It literally

1:02:48

was like a sitcom, but it was a huge

1:02:50

lesson that I still haven't learned.

1:02:53

Having only one object of your desire? Don't fuck

1:02:55

with cats.

1:02:56

Yeah, yeah. See,

1:02:59

that's actually, if I'm being dead honest, you wanna pull a curtain

1:03:01

fully back. One thing about you

1:03:03

that confuses me to no end, is you

1:03:06

actually don't seem to have that gear

1:03:08

in your scumbaggery toolkit. No. That's

1:03:11

not your thing. No. We have never been together

1:03:13

where like a beautiful woman has walked by and you've

1:03:15

been like, or whatever, even

1:03:18

an obligatory knowledge man. It's

1:03:20

gross and it's weird

1:03:22

and it's very typical.

1:03:25

But you don't fight it, right? Like I always say,

1:03:27

I feel very lucky I don't have a food

1:03:29

addiction or a gambling addiction, which is shocking, because anything

1:03:31

I enjoy, I'm gonna be addicted to. Very

1:03:34

much sex addicty, love addicty,

1:03:37

for sure, for me.

1:03:38

But I don't sense that in you and

1:03:41

that's always been peculiar to me. Yeah, I

1:03:43

don't know why I've always been in long-term

1:03:45

relationships. And then after

1:03:48

Susan Downie, by the way, it helps

1:03:51

that by the time we met, I was in my

1:03:53

late 30s, she was in her late 20s

1:03:55

and we would be like at LAX, it'd be like, do

1:03:57

you and your daughter need help getting through the thing?

1:03:59

like, oh, this is so fucking hot. So

1:04:04

it's never one thing. Half of it is she's

1:04:07

hot and great. She also isn't

1:04:09

typical and that she's not effusive.

1:04:11

She doesn't dress suggestively. So

1:04:13

there's this thing that's very private

1:04:16

and just safe for me. And then

1:04:18

when she opens the spigot, it's

1:04:20

gnarly. And then there's all

1:04:22

the things. I look at it the exact same

1:04:24

way I'd look at taking a drink. What

1:04:27

could possibly be the upside

1:04:29

of

1:04:29

convincing myself one more time

1:04:32

that that would be worth it? And therefore, I don't

1:04:35

need to recoil as though from a hot flame.

1:04:37

That's an oven. You're not even drawn to the hot flame at this

1:04:39

point. You've been relieved of the obsession. I

1:04:41

think there's been times because I also think

1:04:43

where are you at? Like I'll be 60 in a couple of years.

1:04:46

I think in my early 40s and 50s, I was

1:04:48

probably wondering, shouldn't I

1:04:50

be getting all kinds

1:04:53

of dirt done? And shouldn't I just even just

1:04:55

be giving a pass for that? I mean, look at this. And

1:04:58

then you get to a certain age and you go like,

1:04:59

you know what, no one's doing any of my favorites

1:05:02

here. We disagree on that. I

1:05:04

think there would be a fucking line like they were

1:05:06

opening up a Krispy Kreme's in the 90s. By

1:05:09

the way, if you put a hot donut in his mouth.

1:05:12

I also love when someone else has it. You've got

1:05:14

the big zaddy thing going on right now.

1:05:16

And I'm just like, let him have it.

1:05:18

Yeah, but as you say, you

1:05:20

have to monitor that. You don't

1:05:22

look at your DMs. Yeah,

1:05:25

I have to have a game

1:05:27

plan like everything else. I don't

1:05:30

need a game plan. It's really simple. As

1:05:32

soon as I feel mildly

1:05:35

activated, I go lock myself in a room.

1:05:37

Okay, that's a good policy.

1:05:40

Isn't Kristin coming in here to say that we got to wrap

1:05:42

this thing up? I thought she had ideas. She pulled a no

1:05:44

show on us. That's to make us both want

1:05:47

her more because she committed to coming in a few times.

1:05:49

That's true. Yeah, and by the way, you know what? I wouldn't want to confuse

1:05:52

the audience into imagining that

1:05:55

I have some superior moral

1:05:57

code. This is all a result.

1:05:59

of having had my ass handed to me

1:06:02

so many times that

1:06:05

I don't question. It's not appealing anymore.

1:06:07

I have that feeling about many things. I was just talking to my therapist

1:06:09

about it today. I told you I had to go to therapy immediately

1:06:11

after seeing Senior. Thank God that was scheduled.

1:06:14

Now, were you still pumping iron for

1:06:16

that? I lived during all my, if

1:06:19

that's what you're at. Just the app work. Okay,

1:06:22

who did you envy

1:06:23

in that period growing up? Like what actor were

1:06:25

you kind of monitoring going, I should

1:06:27

be that person. Matt Dillon. Perfect.

1:06:31

What a great pick. And I also got to know

1:06:33

him and I just saw him, is

1:06:35

this show called High Desert? With Patricia Arquette.

1:06:38

Yeah, I just saw him in that. He looks insanely

1:06:40

handsome still. I know. But when

1:06:43

I first knew him, he took me under his wing.

1:06:45

He had this place on Elizabeth Street that was run

1:06:47

by an Eastern medicine doctor that

1:06:50

was just really cool. And I would

1:06:52

leave his house and when we come

1:06:53

back later, there would be all of these things

1:06:55

on the door with like girls who had put their

1:06:58

phone number on. I mean, he was a level

1:07:00

of stardom

1:07:01

intrigue and being pursued

1:07:04

that I think was on

1:07:06

that Elvis, Beatles, Marilyn

1:07:09

Monroe type level. Yeah.

1:07:12

And by the way, I don't mean to sidebar too much, but

1:07:14

I saw the Brooke Shields documentary

1:07:16

and I realized too that I did get to

1:07:19

know her a little bit and I got to

1:07:21

run into her strangely in Thailand about a month ago,

1:07:23

but it kind of goes like this. Elvis,

1:07:26

Marilyn, the Beatles, Michael

1:07:28

Jackson, Brooke Shields.

1:07:29

Yeah, that doc was crazy. Incredible.

1:07:32

Yeah. Incredible. And I think the interesting

1:07:34

thing about the documentary space is

1:07:37

it can be manipulated to give you a false narrative,

1:07:39

but if you just pay attention and use your

1:07:42

own discernment and just check in with how you feel

1:07:44

about it, you're right, on my five fingers,

1:07:46

there were this. Now, going back to your question, Matt

1:07:48

Dillon,

1:07:49

for sure, Dustin Hoffman, a

1:07:52

million percent, Meryl Streep, because

1:07:54

I realized she's got this other thing where

1:07:56

she's American, but she's really

1:07:59

strong with dialect.

1:07:59

She's clearly focused

1:08:02

enough and versatile enough to

1:08:05

keep going from one thing to the next. And

1:08:07

it's always her, but it's always

1:08:09

a new version of her that you now take as being

1:08:11

the character. Peter O'Toole, just because

1:08:14

Lawrence of Arabia changed my life. And if

1:08:16

I have to pick a fifth one...

1:08:19

Did I say Matt Dillon?

1:08:20

Yeah, we started there. Okay, let's begin and

1:08:22

end. Let's begin and end with Matt Dillon. I'm

1:08:24

with you. Because again, dude, this

1:08:27

guy is so underrated. If

1:08:29

you look at what he was doing in the Outsiders

1:08:31

in Rumblefish and stuff he's done since,

1:08:34

up and way past something about Mary... Remember how

1:08:36

he wasn't beautiful girls on a nowhere? Of course.

1:08:38

He was someone who I always

1:08:41

saw was like working with great directors

1:08:43

and he was picking up from them, but he always

1:08:45

had his own version of True North, where

1:08:48

it wasn't about starting an argument. It was about

1:08:50

always trying to make space for himself while still

1:08:52

being agreeable with everybody else. All

1:08:54

the while managing immense

1:08:57

stardom. How do you feel about Nicolas Cage?

1:09:00

I think he is in a category

1:09:03

of his own. I'm so glad to hear you say

1:09:05

that. The same way that Billy Bob is. That's

1:09:07

the great thing is I think you

1:09:09

and I are... Go ahead, speak for me. I'm flattered

1:09:12

by it. I think you and I and a bunch of other people

1:09:14

are all in this kind of

1:09:16

middle space. And sometimes some of

1:09:18

us are the ones in the middle doing the

1:09:20

dancing on the cardboard and the rest of us are going

1:09:23

out. And then you have people

1:09:25

who perpetually operate as

1:09:27

these satellite entities,

1:09:29

Billy Bob,

1:09:30

Nicolas Cage, Crispin Glover, this

1:09:32

and that. And then I want to go back too, because I just

1:09:35

saw the Michael Fox documentary. Turturro

1:09:37

for sure. I would be remiss

1:09:40

not to say this, of my generation,

1:09:42

the most unappreciated actor technically

1:09:45

is Michael J. Fox. If you look

1:09:48

at what he was able to do up through

1:09:50

during and past his diagnosis,

1:09:53

but forget medical conditions, we're

1:09:56

all going to be taken down by something. None of that

1:09:58

matters. All that matters is...

1:09:59

What is in your eyes? And

1:10:02

that fucking dude, no

1:10:05

one has ever understood camera, timing,

1:10:08

emotion, control,

1:10:10

confidence, and also being someone

1:10:14

who had to jump out of their

1:10:16

stature for you to treat

1:10:18

them as an equal in a very heightest,

1:10:21

sexist, this that society. He

1:10:24

transcended all that. He did it all. What

1:10:26

a great pick. I would also say one of those

1:10:28

people who's outside the box, Eric Stoltz.

1:10:31

Eric Stoltz is amazing.

1:10:33

In a way, he was too

1:10:36

amazing to do something that mainstream.

1:10:38

So that's the weird thing. Yes, you're right.

1:10:40

Like why didn't Nicolas Cage ever

1:10:43

do Superman? Well, he

1:10:45

was going to, but in a way, he

1:10:47

can't ever come into this place where the

1:10:49

rest of us are kind of dancing. Funny behind the

1:10:51

scenes thing. One time we were just chatting and I said, oh, this

1:10:54

reminds me of one of my favorite movies. You ever see this movie Firstborn?

1:10:56

And you're like, yeah, I was in Firstborn. By

1:11:00

the way, and you know what I was, perpetually,

1:11:02

I thought my role in life was to

1:11:04

be

1:11:05

cast as Milo, his offbeat buddy.

1:11:07

That was it. So what are you doing this? Oh, I play Milo as offbeat

1:11:10

buddy. It's a niche industry. I'm kind

1:11:11

of nailing it. That was how you saw

1:11:13

yourself. It was more than enough

1:11:16

because these were real movies.

1:11:18

They weren't my dad's indie weirdo.

1:11:20

Like everybody pitched in five grand

1:11:22

and we shot for another two weeks. The

1:11:25

other career thing for you, I want to say

1:11:27

before we do Downey's Cars, which I promise is absolutely

1:11:29

right next. You made me

1:11:32

promises, promises. Do,

1:11:34

do, do, do, do, do. What

1:11:36

does I believe?

1:11:39

Ooh, we got a duet. That's how

1:11:41

we're opening. Okay, good song, promises,

1:11:43

promises. I forgot to say one thing about your dad.

1:11:46

Again, this stuck with me. You said it. It

1:11:48

wasn't in the documentary, but I heard you one time

1:11:50

say that your dad told you, everyone

1:11:52

can act, some people can direct, and

1:11:55

nobody can write. And I'm like,

1:11:56

boom. You talk about that all the time. All

1:11:58

the time. I'm like. That sums up

1:12:01

this entire racket so

1:12:03

perfectly it's insane. Do you

1:12:05

think he heard it from somebody or he just came to that on

1:12:07

his own? It's so good. You know what? I will

1:12:09

tell you this here for the first time ever. I

1:12:12

think. You made it up. I

1:12:15

think

1:12:16

I accredited to him

1:12:18

based on an extrapolated from

1:12:21

all experiences I ever had from him. I

1:12:23

got it. I think more it's

1:12:25

to cover the fact that he would say

1:12:27

things to me like, ooh, these

1:12:30

Marvel movies. Wow.

1:12:33

Tough to watch. Act three, act three.

1:12:35

It's like, what a misfire. Those

1:12:40

good. You can do in person. You're this

1:12:42

close to doing Dangerfield. I mean,

1:12:44

that one is

1:12:46

a hair away from Dangerfield. That is fucking

1:12:48

third eye. My wife's cooking it so bad. The

1:12:50

flies pitched in to fix the screen door. You

1:12:54

can't do it in person. Okay. I do want to say

1:12:56

this. Are you on a bit of a dip right now? I

1:12:58

just packed a lipper, but everything's normal. Everything's going

1:13:01

exactly as planned. I want to

1:13:03

give you this compliment. You're not going to like it. It's going

1:13:05

to be impossible for you to respond to, but I'm going to say

1:13:07

it out loud because I want everyone in the world to know this. Marvel

1:13:09

is the most successful thing to happen in the film business,

1:13:12

maybe in the history of the film business. It's

1:13:14

the most incredible thing ever. You look

1:13:16

at the top 10 movies of all time. It's virtually

1:13:18

all Marvel, right? I'm going to say this is a three-way

1:13:21

compliment. People may or may not know this about

1:13:23

you, but they did not want to hire you for Iron Man.

1:13:25

How many people had to pass before they gave

1:13:27

you that? I wasn't on the list. Exactly.

1:13:30

I couldn't be on the list. I was a liability.

1:13:33

Yeah. Yeah. Oh

1:13:35

no. He's a bad puppy.

1:13:37

He likes boogie shoobies. A bad

1:13:40

boy. He can't help but powder his

1:13:42

nose.

1:13:42

Because how far out was it from like

1:13:45

a jurisdiction? Well, it's OA. I don't

1:13:47

know what year you got out of jail, but it was

1:13:49

not long after. You'd done a few things.

1:13:51

I love that people think that once I got

1:13:53

out of jail, I said, well, there it is. It's

1:13:55

time to straighten up

1:13:56

and fire it. That's why I said

1:13:58

out of your extreme ada- Not jail. Extreme

1:14:01

addiction. Yeah. It's a

1:14:04

really bad addiction. You're so fun. Robert,

1:14:06

you're gonna have to go into a room right now. I can feel it. You're

1:14:10

on the verge of going into a room. You gotta walk out of here. Protect

1:14:12

yourself, that's right. Welcome to TNT's

1:14:14

extreme addiction. Well, I think there

1:14:17

are levels, like

1:14:19

this addiction, this dip right now, again,

1:14:22

that's fine, that's not extreme. No, it's manageable.

1:14:25

But it can get extreme. If I start

1:14:27

freebasing this. Yeah. It's

1:14:30

all on the table. Wait, but really, how long was

1:14:32

it? Because I do wanna know, because I think that's relevant to why

1:14:34

you were a liability. There's a couple

1:14:36

things, which is usually, things

1:14:39

aren't happening concurrently. People

1:14:41

presume that this happened,

1:14:43

and then you had bad behavior, and then you this

1:14:46

and this. But I also think this, here's what I'll

1:14:48

say to anyone who is struggling with

1:14:50

substance abuse or this and that.

1:14:51

How long are you doing it? It takes about two years.

1:14:53

Two weeks, two years. Two weeks to acclimate

1:14:56

to any horrendous situation, a

1:14:58

sudden loss, a serious

1:15:00

injury, a breakup. Now, the breakup

1:15:03

is different, and that the breakup is exactly

1:15:05

one year.

1:15:07

The acclimatizing to

1:15:10

a jarring situation, two weeks.

1:15:13

And then how to turn- These are Downy's time tables.

1:15:16

So I wanna publish these, it's Downy's time tables. And

1:15:18

how to turn your life around completely

1:15:20

to a place where you don't have to convince anybody

1:15:22

that you've changed, two years. Yeah. Okay.

1:15:26

And by the way, guys, two years will blow by if you stay high.

1:15:28

That takes five minutes. It sounds long to you

1:15:30

right now, but just think you'll lose two years at the blink

1:15:33

of an eye. Two years of abstaining from

1:15:35

the offending behaviors. It was a really uphill

1:15:37

battle between something about you, your

1:15:39

thing,

1:15:40

plus Favreau, plus Dan Leibenthal,

1:15:43

and you wouldn't wanna say this yourselves. You

1:15:45

are Marvel.

1:15:47

You three got together

1:15:49

through some magic. You

1:15:51

created a tone that then was replicated

1:15:53

to great success throughout the Marvel universe.

1:15:56

I find that to be incredible.

1:15:58

And I think you guys deserve that credit.

1:15:59

The level of comedy and the action, the interspersing

1:16:02

of all that, the way that that tone that

1:16:04

was discovered in that process is

1:16:06

the secret sauce that makes Marvel Marvel. You

1:16:09

can publicly disagree if you want. History is really

1:16:11

tricky because is Chuck

1:16:13

Berry rock and roll? No,

1:16:15

rock and roll is this force

1:16:17

from the cosmos that came down and

1:16:20

you can see where its roots are, you can

1:16:22

see where its origins are. They're usually

1:16:24

about 30 or 50 years before

1:16:26

the phenomenon of a new cultural thing.

1:16:28

So I would say that comic books

1:16:31

are part of it. I would say Christopher

1:16:33

Reeves, definitely part of it. I

1:16:36

would say once you had Tim

1:16:38

Burton directing a superhero movie,

1:16:40

now it was like, well, maybe never,

1:16:43

but someday if. And then I

1:16:45

think you need the combination of Kevin

1:16:48

Feige, who was frustrated

1:16:50

at why he had a sense

1:16:52

that something unimaginable could

1:16:54

occur, but he was being saddled with

1:16:56

not having the leverage to be

1:16:58

able to do anything about it. Favreau, and

1:17:00

by the way, honestly, if I have to attribute it to one

1:17:03

thing, it's two films that came out the same

1:17:05

weekend that bombed. One was Zithura.

1:17:07

Yeah, I got to be a part of that. You sure

1:17:09

did. I got fucking great

1:17:11

in it. And the movie was really good.

1:17:14

Favreau didn't want to call it Jumanji two

1:17:16

because he was already saying, I don't want to be a

1:17:18

repeater. And thank God

1:17:20

he made that perhaps ill-fated

1:17:23

decision for marketing or whatever.

1:17:25

And I did a film with Val Kilmer, directed

1:17:28

by Shane Black called Kiss Kiss Bang Bang,

1:17:30

arguably one of my two or three favorite things

1:17:33

I've ever done. It's incredible, such a good movie. Nobody

1:17:35

saw it. Those two failures

1:17:38

put Johnny and I in a position where we're

1:17:40

like,

1:17:41

whatever it is he does next has

1:17:43

to work. Whatever I do next has

1:17:45

to be a reinvention,

1:17:48

not just

1:17:49

of me, because I'm reinvented

1:17:51

a little bit now and I'm kind of intact and

1:17:53

sound of mine, but I have to finally,

1:17:56

I've been at this for ages. It's

1:17:58

like, when

1:17:58

is this guy, we either... You gotta cut him from the team.

1:18:02

You gotta cut this fucker from the team, or he's

1:18:04

gotta win us a pennant. This guy's been circling

1:18:06

in the lobby for about 20 fucking years. Hey

1:18:08

bro, come in the party or go to the

1:18:10

parking lot, get in your car and leave. But aren't we

1:18:13

all that? Because I think you and I also

1:18:15

luckily still suffer from this outsiderness.

1:18:18

I don't think it's an addiction thing. I don't think it's even a

1:18:20

therapy thing. I think it's a disposition

1:18:23

of self-protection by saying I am

1:18:25

not this

1:18:26

thing that is an entity, which

1:18:29

is why it's also important to say, I would say to you

1:18:31

guys, I was looking at your viewership and the

1:18:33

influence and what you've done and you wear it like

1:18:35

a loose garment. I thought I was gonna walk

1:18:37

into, it started here, and

1:18:40

now it's like fucking

1:18:42

ed TV, and it's literally like this 30,000

1:18:44

foot place that you still make it

1:18:46

look like a thing. And there's something

1:18:49

about with artifice

1:18:51

comes self-deception. So

1:18:54

I think there's a natural life

1:18:56

extension

1:18:56

policy, which is don't

1:18:59

buy into that. Yeah,

1:19:02

if I never said I wanna be a

1:19:04

member of this, when you kick me out, it'll be

1:19:06

less embarrassing. Ultimately. Okay,

1:19:08

I got to say my piece on that. Now, Downey's

1:19:11

Dream Cars. We talk about this with

1:19:13

great excitement and anticipation and some

1:19:15

resentment. The notion that you went away into the

1:19:17

car show and I didn't get a call until it was completed

1:19:20

just to me seems like a real fuck

1:19:22

you. It's a passive fuck you, but the

1:19:25

notion that I was never involved in this,

1:19:27

I'd like to air that resentment. That's why they're season

1:19:29

two. Okay, salt. Look

1:19:31

how easy

1:19:31

does the salt thing. I'm gonna be your dialect coach and

1:19:34

I'll be a technical advisor. It's

1:19:36

not dialect coach. You are literally

1:19:38

going to be my coach for this role and dialect

1:19:40

is going to be an aspect of it. One of many things

1:19:43

that I work on with you. You

1:19:45

know what it really is? Not to make a comparison,

1:19:47

but one of the reasons I love Jim Cameron so

1:19:49

much is he does

1:19:52

this thing about Titanic

1:19:55

and then this and that, and then he creates a technology

1:19:57

that raises the tide. And it's this really,

1:20:00

inexplicable, ongoing,

1:20:02

intuitive pursuit of

1:20:05

something that only he could do.

1:20:08

And I think we all need to find that. And

1:20:10

every one of us has this. It's our

1:20:13

own golden thread to how to make sense

1:20:15

of our lives. At a certain point after

1:20:18

these franchises are hitting and I've

1:20:20

never grew up with dough, and

1:20:23

I'm thinking, am I supposed to collect art?

1:20:27

And then, we get a car. I like cars,

1:20:29

I drive cars. And then I started

1:20:31

massing this collection. Our father, our

1:20:33

mutual father, Tom Hanson,

1:20:35

was involved in a lot of these, because

1:20:37

he's our car guru. Correct. Now,

1:20:39

a lot of it was just, I wanted there to

1:20:41

be 22 cool cars. You

1:20:44

wanna be in a Sir Mix-a-Lot video.

1:20:45

When you

1:20:47

go to Ex-in-Six birthday party. Imagine

1:20:50

this, something that starts out of

1:20:52

a

1:20:53

perceived self-centered

1:20:55

need to demonstrate whatever

1:20:58

success means in Western civilization

1:21:00

turns into a liability where

1:21:03

I'm not you, dude. I don't want to go

1:21:05

fast in cars. I don't wanna drive on dunes.

1:21:07

I don't drive two wheeled vehicles anymore.

1:21:10

None of that. I wanna cruise up and down

1:21:12

PCH and run into Jerry

1:21:14

Seinfeld and have him say, hey, that's a cool ride. Like,

1:21:16

it's all that dumb fulfillment

1:21:19

stuff. And then,

1:21:21

when the Marvel contract was ending, I got

1:21:23

asked to go speak at this Remarze conference.

1:21:26

And I kinda coped a resentment because I felt

1:21:28

like these super powerful people

1:21:30

really could affect change and really

1:21:32

do a drawdown on all this climate stuff. But again,

1:21:35

you can't really do that and be

1:21:37

one of the two or three richest guys. You kinda gotta

1:21:39

decide. I'm going to go for industry

1:21:42

or I'm going to go for change. And thinking

1:21:44

that the industry will provide the change,

1:21:46

that's absolute horseshit. However,

1:21:49

if I were in that position, I can only

1:21:51

imagine the weight of deciding. What

1:21:54

am I gonna do? Be a philanthropist?

1:21:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I try to get Green Tech

1:21:59

to heal her plan. Damn it. So

1:22:01

I started this footprint coalition and great people

1:22:03

like Rachel Kropa and

1:22:05

John Sheeber is our editor and

1:22:08

does a lot, a lot of spotlighting

1:22:10

technologies in the space. Gene Krupa's on

1:22:12

drums. Big time. John Shulhoff,

1:22:14

Steve Levine, Susan's brother run the venture

1:22:17

side. So it's this whole big thing. And then

1:22:19

I'm looking at these cars

1:22:21

and then I'm going, I'm a fraud.

1:22:24

And then I thought, but what do I do? We

1:22:26

make stories of our

1:22:29

lives.

1:22:30

And so my life was, I wonder if I

1:22:32

could do a show about trying to make these cars more

1:22:34

efficient. You know the reason you aren't involved

1:22:36

in season one? I do. You do

1:22:38

now, don't you? Because

1:22:41

you are so integral

1:22:43

to the whole reason I did the

1:22:45

show to begin with. I know we're natural

1:22:47

born adversaries on this one. You are

1:22:49

a real gear head. I am,

1:22:52

I don't want to say a fraud. I

1:22:54

appreciate the aesthetics. And

1:22:56

I like your sick. As I've told you, I covet your 3.0

1:22:58

CSI, BMW. It's

1:23:01

incredibly gorgeous. You can have it. What?

1:23:05

I

1:23:08

do have a great idea though. You

1:23:10

can have it. I'll row shampoo you for it

1:23:12

right now. Just to see, let's

1:23:14

go.

1:23:17

You did it four times. Wait, is it on

1:23:19

four? Okay, it's on four. It's one, two,

1:23:21

three, shoot. Okay, I'm ready. But by the way, hold

1:23:23

on a second. Hold on a second. One,

1:23:26

two, three, shoot. We

1:23:30

are not soulmates. We can't even play Rosham Bow for

1:23:32

crying out loud. But listen, I beat

1:23:35

you the first time and you're just not accepting it. I

1:23:37

know you would go rock. Everyone goes rock.

1:23:39

I always, and then after that, I always go

1:23:41

paper first because I know people feel strong

1:23:43

about rock. This is a human moment in the whole

1:23:46

episode. No one knows when to go.

1:23:48

Either three or four. I thought I was so vulnerable before. No,

1:23:50

I didn't hear anything. I feel like you've been grounding me.

1:23:52

You've been tethering me. Are you gonna wear her shoes

1:23:55

too when you wear her outfit? I mean, if I could squeeze

1:23:57

these. These are a little big on me. You might be able to

1:23:59

wear them.

1:23:59

I wish there was

1:24:02

a component to this where certain

1:24:04

things that were then again, you know to be a drag It's

1:24:06

like, you know, you could do like a big show and they're like so

1:24:08

we got three bits We want you to do after you're like

1:24:11

fuck. This is why I don't do these shows Hey,

1:24:14

we always do this thing where we're gonna have you try to juggle

1:24:16

these tomatoes What why?

1:24:19

Well Heinz is it whatever doesn't matter just juggle

1:24:21

these tomatoes. Everyone does it. It's so fun. I was

1:24:24

somewhere I forget where it was promoting

1:24:27

senior and

1:24:28

there's a new hue of things We're like hey, man, I have

1:24:30

this website and it just do this thing where you go And

1:24:33

then you float away will you do it and

1:24:35

it's like the first time I stood up for myself. I

1:24:37

just said

1:24:40

No Yeah, I

1:24:42

won't I Yeah

1:24:45

back in the old days I would have been like hey life

1:24:47

is easy. I feel good. You feel good now These

1:24:49

are challenges to my integrity. I Well,

1:24:52

I'll tell you yeah one way you could go like over brats

1:24:54

The other way is like I'm a delicate machine

1:24:57

I'll drive home mad at myself that I just did

1:24:59

something I don't want to do because it's triggering childhood shit by

1:25:01

the way I would love you to stop this poor

1:25:04

couple who just have a little Insta

1:25:06

thing they do that got a little tread and

1:25:08

have you go so deep on

1:25:11

them on why you can't do

1:25:13

this

1:25:13

Listen, I talk to you too for 10 minutes. It

1:25:16

started in 1975 Do

1:25:19

you guys want to sit down for this? Okay this

1:25:22

car show. Yes It's called Downey's

1:25:24

dream cars downies dream cars

1:25:26

you watch

1:25:27

I want oh my god And

1:25:29

I was gonna say you Monica you

1:25:31

really like RDJ because she

1:25:34

never watch stuff. Yeah By

1:25:37

the way, I am that person well Honestly,

1:25:40

I sort of do it. It's tactical

1:25:42

It is a little bit tactical because I am

1:25:44

supposed to sort of be the audience and if I do know

1:25:46

too much Sometimes I think then everything gets very esoteric

1:25:49

and I can't bring it back

1:25:50

Exactly, and if she hasn't read

1:25:52

the book and I have then she can

1:25:55

police when I'm going down, right?

1:25:59

But in this I watched.

1:26:01

Can I ask really quick? Why? Yeah.

1:26:04

Because the publicist said it was very important to

1:26:06

you that we watch. Okay, great. And

1:26:08

she said, it said, you and Dax. She

1:26:11

included me, so I thought, you know what? It is important

1:26:13

that I do that. And I was mad, because

1:26:15

I didn't want to watch a car show. And then I thought,

1:26:18

oh my God, he did

1:26:20

it. Because this is great for

1:26:22

gear heads. It gets technical, they're

1:26:25

showing so much cool car stuff. But

1:26:27

if you don't care about cars, you care about the goal.

1:26:29

And I cared about the

1:26:31

goal. And I watched one and a half episodes.

1:26:34

Oh, you got me beat. Listen,

1:26:38

I watched all six. You did. Yes,

1:26:40

I was struggling to find the time to watch all six. And

1:26:42

I was thinking, why didn't this motherfucker

1:26:44

come with me? Long

1:26:45

night gay. He had to get the tears

1:26:48

out. The gains I got though were worth

1:26:50

it. But I thought, why did this son of a bitch come

1:26:52

in when he was promoting one movie? I could have

1:26:54

watched one of those movies, but no, I watched six

1:26:57

hours of television. Mind you, I

1:26:59

loved every episode. Every episode's great. He's been

1:27:01

on this for years now. Trevor,

1:27:04

we're talking about Trevor again. Yes, Trevor Newhoff,

1:27:06

producer on it. And it was this weird thing

1:27:08

too, where anyone who knows me knows that I

1:27:10

am a bit of an oddball that'd be like, we should do this car about

1:27:13

shows. So why isn't the show done yet? Right,

1:27:15

I thought of it yesterday. I was doing this show,

1:27:18

it

1:27:18

is this car about shows. So

1:27:20

I'm gonna get six cars when they get into

1:27:22

it. And they'll be turned around when. Like I need

1:27:24

all the cars done before we go. And then what happens

1:27:27

is you know. Yeah, yeah. You wanna change

1:27:29

out a muffler on your old Nova.

1:27:31

And six weeks later, they're going, hey bro, I

1:27:34

still got at the shop. I just like having your car

1:27:36

at the shop. Yeah, a lot of my neighbors have

1:27:38

stopped by.

1:27:39

Yeah. Yeah.

1:27:41

Yeah. Yeah. Stay

1:27:43

tuned for more Armchair Expert,

1:27:46

if you dare.

1:27:50

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1:27:52

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1:27:56

Yeah. Yeah. And

1:27:58

here's the weird thing. I have to admit this. the two most

1:28:00

significant

1:28:01

projects I've ever been involved in in

1:28:04

my whole life have been senior

1:28:07

and downy stream cars. One was a documentary

1:28:09

and the other was a streaming series for

1:28:11

Max because one of them was about

1:28:14

taking this intuitive process

1:28:16

and turning it into media. And

1:28:19

the other was obviously about my dad and not

1:28:21

just father and son's parents and things and artists

1:28:23

and all that stuff. But there were times

1:28:26

during it where it was so nebulous

1:28:28

that I was just like, why did I say I was

1:28:30

doing the show? And then you start

1:28:31

getting these things back. By the time we

1:28:33

were in New York driving

1:28:36

this 1966 Riviera

1:28:39

around the city that I won't say what, but it has

1:28:41

a piece of technology on it

1:28:43

that really is interesting

1:28:45

and useful for monitoring

1:28:47

particulate matter and pollution and all that stuff.

1:28:49

And by the way, I grew up in that city. Yeah,

1:28:52

yeah, yeah, you guys are driving around and you're looking at this

1:28:54

screen. It's giving you real time readouts of

1:28:56

how gnarly the air is. And it's nuts

1:28:58

how quickly it can change. And I was thinking, fuck,

1:29:01

if people knew if you put the monitoring

1:29:04

of our environment

1:29:06

randomly into the hands of the

1:29:08

citizens, it's kind of why when

1:29:10

social media is powerful,

1:29:13

it's powerful because it's

1:29:15

instant democracy and opinion

1:29:18

leveraged against the powers that

1:29:20

be. And when you have deeply

1:29:23

entrenched things such as struggle

1:29:25

for resources, climate deniers,

1:29:28

people that I think are too far out

1:29:30

about climate consciousness coming back

1:29:32

to the center, I think left our own devices,

1:29:35

humanity tends to do the right thing

1:29:37

often enough to not destroy itself, which

1:29:40

is a pretty good track record. Yeah, I think so

1:29:42

too. Yeah, I think it's like calories on

1:29:44

a menu. Let's just say that I loved this

1:29:46

chain that made pizzas and had a

1:29:48

state in its title. And

1:29:51

I went to get my favorite salad and

1:29:53

my favorite hummus, which I was under the assumption

1:29:55

was a very calorically responsible

1:29:58

decision until

1:29:59

I started putting the calories on the menu and I went, oh

1:30:02

no, no, no, that's insane. That's

1:30:05

insane, I'll have to run nine extra

1:30:07

miles for the salad. So similarly,

1:30:09

if you knew that like on 52nd Street,

1:30:12

you're at 15 parts per whatever,

1:30:14

and then on 56, you're at four,

1:30:18

well guess what, you're gonna go there. Well,

1:30:20

here's another weirdo moment, which is

1:30:22

so funny with life is one of our

1:30:24

stops is the apartment that was the

1:30:26

first place I was in when I met Sarah Jessica

1:30:28

Parker, when I got my first job, tough turf

1:30:30

before weird science and firstborn

1:30:32

was in the city right before that. And

1:30:34

I was like, oh my God, this is where I came up

1:30:36

in Hell's Kitchen and now I'm here in this

1:30:39

car during this show about this

1:30:41

thing. And they go, I think we went by the actual

1:30:43

apartment. And I go, it's all right, just pretend it's

1:30:45

that one, I'll react the same way. So we

1:30:48

also know that. Yes.

1:30:52

And that's why it's so great because

1:30:55

as you all are,

1:30:56

you are making art of

1:30:58

your lives and you are creating these

1:31:01

impossibly meaningful

1:31:03

dialogues. You're creating a informational

1:31:06

playlist. And then I'm sure

1:31:09

the same way you've been dreaming about me since you

1:31:11

were 14. We're creating in

1:31:13

the dream state, what kind of life do I wanna

1:31:15

have? We have all these fears and anticipations.

1:31:18

And particularly when something seemingly

1:31:20

came together and became so popular

1:31:23

so quickly

1:31:24

out of something that seems so small, I

1:31:26

think that would activate some fear,

1:31:29

like is the other shoe gonna drop? Was this, and it's

1:31:31

not, I don't think it's imposter complex or any

1:31:33

of that. I think it's just cherishing

1:31:36

and appreciating it so much that

1:31:38

it would be awful to have

1:31:40

it. Now we know, we'll get over it in two weeks.

1:31:42

Yeah, oh yeah, you'll be fine. So it'll be fine. I'm

1:31:44

not worried anymore. This one might be more like a year because

1:31:47

it's a relationship. You know what, yeah, actually

1:31:49

it'd be 14 years, two weeks, 14 days

1:31:51

times one year. That's all okay.

1:31:54

Sit down these time tables. It'll be out by Penguin

1:31:56

Press. It's gonna be a great

1:31:59

coffee table book.

1:31:59

for this holiday season. She's just going inside all

1:32:02

the other books. You're gonna have to tackle some timetables

1:32:04

you don't want to, like perfect digestion of

1:32:06

food before you take a nap, that kind of stuff, just

1:32:08

to fill out the book. But back to the

1:32:10

show, I'll tell you, so in this show, there

1:32:13

are six episodes, you do a great, great job,

1:32:15

because if you just went and straight up did a car show,

1:32:17

that's a little confusing to me. For you

1:32:19

to be in it and in it not to be novel

1:32:22

in some way, so I think all the kind

1:32:24

of

1:32:25

Christopher Guest moments, right,

1:32:28

of like acknowledging the world you're in and

1:32:30

calling yourself out at times is novel and interesting

1:32:33

and new. The most important thing I will

1:32:35

say today

1:32:36

is Christopher Guest. If any

1:32:38

of us could approach the integrity

1:32:41

and consistency that that guy has

1:32:43

with his work,

1:32:45

wow. Yeah, yeah. It's tag. Also,

1:32:47

Jamie Lee Curtis is your partner. Yeah,

1:32:50

and she's coming out of nowhere. She's

1:32:52

coming out of nowhere and everywhere, everywhere, all

1:32:54

the time, whatever it was. So cool. It

1:32:56

was badass. She's a bad motherfucker. I mean, that's

1:32:59

what you call not just a power couple. Forget

1:33:01

that.

1:33:01

That's a couple that we know

1:33:04

where he came from. We know her

1:33:06

lineage. They find each other.

1:33:08

They're still functional.

1:33:10

And it's this weird thing of he's had

1:33:12

all these wins and now she's having, it's almost

1:33:15

like a relationship or the homeostasis

1:33:18

is going, that's all that matters. We just

1:33:20

wanna keep our little vessel full in

1:33:23

this maelstrom of Hollywood insanity

1:33:26

and just stay us. I mean, look, we

1:33:28

should probably just do a who else

1:33:30

is great episode. I'd like to host it

1:33:32

with you. Okay, that would be great. Who else is great? That's

1:33:35

great. Okay, so six episodes, all

1:33:37

your cars, you have this obnoxious

1:33:39

K10

1:33:40

purple pickup truck that you

1:33:42

turn electric and I'll

1:33:44

rank the ones that I was nervous about.

1:33:47

This was one of them. And

1:33:49

when you think of a truck, I mean, if anything

1:33:51

deserves some big monstrous V8 and

1:33:54

had a big supercharged V8, I had

1:33:56

to be glorious before you fuck with

1:33:58

it. It was bananas.

1:33:59

it at auction, it was bananas.

1:34:02

I then modified it. I then sent

1:34:05

it to Speed Corps in the Midwest,

1:34:08

which is the greatest, and they made

1:34:10

it a stomping beast.

1:34:12

And then in its third

1:34:14

iteration, we did this. Yeah.

1:34:17

Rich Benoit and electrified garage. I got

1:34:19

to say, at least aesthetically, this is the best improvement

1:34:21

for me of all the cars that went through the downy

1:34:24

filter. Okay. I think it vastly improved

1:34:26

the fact that it ultimately ends

1:34:28

up towing 200,000 pounds. It's

1:34:32

hard to fuck with that. It's kind of a mic drop.

1:34:34

Yeah. And by the way, that's why I'm so glad.

1:34:36

Were we sure what was going to be at one? No,

1:34:39

it just seemed like the right place to know

1:34:41

it is. No, that was absolutely

1:34:44

the perfect first episode.

1:34:46

Truly the one that's hardest for

1:34:48

me being from Detroit, knowing those

1:34:51

gentlemen you're working with on the program, when you

1:34:54

bring the 65 vet in, people are

1:34:56

going, no, no,

1:34:58

no, no, no, no, no, no.

1:35:00

Please Robin. Yeah. Two of the dudes from Long

1:35:02

Island, they are vet restoration

1:35:05

company. Chris Mazzilli, Dave Webber,

1:35:08

Dream Cars. They literally have a place called, and

1:35:10

now here's the other weird part.

1:35:11

Chris Mazzilli and my dad were really

1:35:14

good friends. That's how you know him. Yeah.

1:35:16

Crazy. So you've got this 65

1:35:19

vet, which is a unicorn.

1:35:21

It's a survivor. It hasn't been restored.

1:35:23

It was literally concourse level upon

1:35:26

purchase. Beautiful, beautiful car.

1:35:28

And these dudes are looking at this perfect

1:35:30

vet and they're like, one guy's, I

1:35:32

mean, he's basically saying like, I hate your

1:35:35

fucking guts for making me do this. Yeah.

1:35:37

What was his name? Dave Webber. Dave Webber.

1:35:40

Yes. Clearly you guys have a wonderful

1:35:41

oil and water vibe that

1:35:44

is comedy. Such a sweetheart. But

1:35:46

if you had been in front of him on the day, he

1:35:48

gave that stand up interview, he would have knocked

1:35:50

you the fuck out. Yeah. I would have sidestepped

1:35:56

and I gouged him redirect. I

1:35:58

guess. Yeah.

1:35:59

Anything that you

1:36:01

start with in Wing Chun is

1:36:03

something that you stop a UFC bout

1:36:05

because of.

1:36:07

Okay. Just imagine that. Okay, right. So

1:36:09

kicks to the groin, eye gouging, shots to

1:36:11

the back of the head. Yeah, yeah. Tuscical

1:36:14

extraction, earlobe detachment. Okay.

1:36:17

I don't know these words. What are you, in a Burt Reynolds

1:36:19

movie? He's always in a Burt

1:36:21

Reynolds movie. That's how he lives his life. Stick currently. Stick,

1:36:24

stick, what was it called? Stick.

1:36:26

Stick. Okay, the vet though. This is probably

1:36:28

the quintessential episode of the six because

1:36:31

you're starting with the absolute most amount

1:36:34

of pushback imaginable. Even to

1:36:36

the point where you guys send it to the

1:36:38

electric company, whose bread

1:36:40

and butter is converting cars

1:36:42

to electric. They are like, don't want

1:36:45

to do this. It's

1:36:47

such good. Oh my God. They're

1:36:49

all really worried about this. And

1:36:52

I got to say of

1:36:53

all of them, the one that I thought, you know what?

1:36:56

I would want that car really bad. Because

1:36:58

the shot of you cruising in

1:37:01

that car silently

1:37:04

with the beauty of the car being what

1:37:06

it is, of all the American cars, that's it. From 63

1:37:08

to 67, that vet is it. And

1:37:12

to hear you gently

1:37:14

moving through the world and it's still faster

1:37:17

than the big block 71, 454. Because

1:37:20

by the way, I had all the same, because I'm saying,

1:37:22

yeah, we'll put it, which one of you? And I was like,

1:37:25

pushback. How many volts? A million

1:37:27

volts? I was like, fuck their pushback. I

1:37:29

wanted it to be, I called it like New York state

1:37:32

flag blue. The whole while they're going, Robert, we got

1:37:34

some problems in the car. I was like, you know, I think if it's

1:37:36

going to go two tone, I want kind of a,

1:37:38

I don't know, like a creamsicle

1:37:41

peach. They're like, what the fuck is this guy doing? I'm

1:37:43

trying to finish these cars. Have you guys seen

1:37:45

the Celine bag that just came out?

1:37:47

Have you guys all familiar with that Celine bag that

1:37:50

just came out? It's like two blues. They're almost

1:37:52

indistinguishable. Oh yeah. And

1:37:54

by the way, I would get so crazy too. Cause they'd

1:37:56

have sent over a paint chip and Trevor's like, so I'm

1:37:58

holding this up. I go, why aren't the lights on?

1:37:59

I mean, I

1:38:02

went, it was like Phantom

1:38:04

Thread trying to

1:38:06

get through this. I love that car, that car

1:38:09

turned out incredible. And it's

1:38:11

gotta be so fucking

1:38:13

pleasant to cruise that thing on the PCH

1:38:15

on a Sunday. It is, by the way,

1:38:18

just cause the show's done doesn't mean

1:38:20

we're done. Some of these cars

1:38:22

had to get in shape to be driveable,

1:38:24

functional, could be a daily driver. Some

1:38:26

of them, they could only get so much done. So the nice

1:38:29

thing is now going back and saying, all right,

1:38:31

now how

1:38:31

do we make this the very

1:38:33

best version of this? Some of them still needed power

1:38:36

steering because of extra weight added

1:38:38

with the batteries and things. None

1:38:40

of them really had functioning air conditioning. There's

1:38:42

one episode where we're driving in New

1:38:44

York. And I think it

1:38:47

was, yeah, and I mean, it was hilarious.

1:38:50

But I will tell you of all

1:38:52

of them,

1:38:53

the one that I have enjoyed driving the most

1:38:55

is the Riviera. Really? It is like an

1:38:58

old, perfect New York taxi. It

1:39:00

is the quintessential, my

1:39:02

generation, supposed to be the car

1:39:04

of the future.

1:39:06

It's the one that's the strangest and

1:39:08

in some ways the least improved, even

1:39:10

though it has a techie element on

1:39:12

it. And that's my heart.

1:39:14

My heart is I can go down

1:39:16

a rabbit hole of perfection and

1:39:19

concourse and this and that, but I really want something

1:39:21

that I agree when I sit in it, it's getting

1:39:23

little spaghetti wheels, steering, but

1:39:26

maybe it was just because we were driving at New York too. I

1:39:28

mean, that day

1:39:29

was miserable. And

1:39:31

yet you still loved it. Oh yeah. Trevor just

1:39:34

mimed something. He mimed, this is how close we are. He

1:39:36

was miming that day I had a

1:39:38

neck air conditioner on. Oh my

1:39:41

God. Like kids wear when

1:39:43

they're at little league games if they're in the stands.

1:39:47

I got you brother. I thought what else was cool was,

1:39:50

so one of the issues that I bristle

1:39:53

against a bit with the environmental movement is

1:39:55

the all or nothing black or white,

1:39:57

the shaming, the moral high ground.

1:39:59

Really dramatic shit. That frustrates me.

1:40:02

For some voices in the movement,

1:40:04

improvement's not good.

1:40:06

It's all or nothing. I think that's unrealistic.

1:40:09

I think there's gonna be a trillion stages

1:40:11

between here and fucking carbon neutrality.

1:40:14

They're all gonna get explored. We're not sure yet

1:40:16

which one's gonna take, to be honest. The electrical

1:40:18

car, there's problems. We don't have an

1:40:20

infrastructure for it. The federal stations that

1:40:22

were built are not being maintained by the states. They're

1:40:24

all in disrepair. There's issues. Revolutions

1:40:27

are messy. It's dogmatic. Often you

1:40:29

get half of it wrong. I could give you a point

1:40:31

for point critique of the EV

1:40:34

revolution that I think it's a problem.

1:40:36

Minimally, I would say it's more complicated. We also

1:40:38

don't know what it's like to ride on

1:40:40

top of charged batteries.

1:40:43

We know that the internal combustion engine

1:40:45

has worked. It's away from us, just the physical

1:40:47

ramifications. Just like, remember with cell

1:40:49

phones and people and getting the things

1:40:52

and then you know, you started working on that. But anyway, yes,

1:40:54

every solution has potential to create problems.

1:40:56

I'm with you and that to me, if everyone

1:40:59

can just take it as a, I'm leaning

1:41:01

two degrees in this direction and I'm trying