0:02

Genocide ship. Okay, fuck

0:05

um Sophie helped me out here. I was

0:07

just shouting genocide. That's not a good way to open a

0:09

podcast. Um

0:13

No, that's basically the same as shouting genocide.

0:16

Um. This is Behind the Bastards

0:19

in the podcast not

0:21

once been introduced like

0:23

an actual professional. One

0:26

time you did it like so proci

0:29

But you were doing a bit. Oh,

0:32

I was doing a bit. That must have been the

0:34

ascid episode. I've forgotten which episode

0:36

was the won't tell me? Will

0:39

tell me your series? Of Which episode do you think

0:42

Robert was fully on acid for when

0:44

we recorded? It's one of the older

0:46

episodes. Yeah, I mean, and if

0:48

you're really really Behind

0:50

the Bastards fan trying to figure out which one I was

0:52

just fucking blazed on two c

0:55

I for. But that's a story for another

0:57

day. This is Behind the Bastards podcast,

0:59

worst people all the history. Tell you

1:01

all about him? My guest today,

1:04

Mr Ben Bolan, Ben,

1:07

how are you doing? I'm so excited, you

1:09

know, guys, it's it's it's a wild

1:12

time. I snuck into this office

1:14

where I'm sitting in the darkness at

1:16

turn Off Video because wifi'

1:19

is weird, because everything is kind

1:21

of terrible in general. Uh,

1:23

but uh, you know, it's a it's a bright

1:25

light, uh, to to be together

1:28

with you guys today. I wanted to tell you I

1:31

was talking Robert was Sophie earlier.

1:33

I really enjoyed the episode you guys

1:36

did on the Protocols of the

1:38

Elders of Zion. I thought that was a protocol

1:42

stand.

1:44

I'm

1:50

really sad that that doesn't have his

1:52

video on because I would have loved seen your

1:54

face too. Oh

2:00

yeah, yeah, because I thought it was

2:02

stuffed people. UM need

2:04

to know about the genesis or the evolution

2:07

of that kind of stuff and just how dangerous

2:10

it is. So I wanted

2:12

to just shout out that episode in

2:14

particular. Um, and

2:17

I do wish I had I wish I had the video

2:19

on. I think all three of us are

2:21

far flung across the country

2:23

right now, but it's really great

2:26

to see you guys scattered to the

2:28

winds. Yeah, it's great

2:30

to kind of see you and your Mark Ruffalo

2:32

icon. Yeah, Ben, this is actually speaking of

2:34

the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. This has been a

2:36

great week for genocide, or I

2:39

should say this has been a great week

2:41

for recognizing historical genocides

2:45

media. Yeah, well

2:47

what what where? This has nothing to do with the episode,

2:49

but I think it's nothing pretty rad. Joe

2:52

Biden, recognized for the was

2:54

the first American president last week to recognize

2:56

the genocide of the Armenians that started in nineteen

2:59

fifteen and hasn't really ended by a lot

3:01

of accounts, um, which

3:03

no other president had the had the cojones

3:05

to do up until now. And the

3:07

best thing that well, not the best thing about it, but a rad

3:09

thing about it, is that urda One, the dictator

3:12

of Turkey, um shot

3:15

back at the United States by

3:17

threatening to recognize the genocide

3:19

of the Native Americans that the US committed.

3:22

And so we're now in this it's

3:24

like Cold war nuclear brinksmanship,

3:26

but with the recognition of historic crimes

3:28

against humanity. And I'm yeah,

3:34

yeah, let's keep recognizing genocides.

3:36

Yeah, like, hey, watch

3:38

out, buddy. I might also start

3:41

telling the truth to school children. Yeah,

3:43

I'll talk about all the horrible things. You're cut

3:45

good, let's throw

3:48

be in here, fuck it, let's recognize

3:50

all the genocides. Um.

3:53

So yeah, this is actually one of those weird times

3:55

where like stupid political dick measuring

3:57

is seeming seems to be objectively Pause.

4:00

Now everybody's talking about different genocides

4:03

committed by imperial powers,

4:05

which I'm supportive of, so good,

4:09

good speaking

4:11

of genocide, Ben, Wow,

4:15

you can make a case that American policing

4:17

has a lot in common with different genocidal

4:20

regimes throughout history, namely in the use of

4:22

state power to oppress specific

4:25

racial and religious groups. M

4:28

m m m. That's kind of what we're talking

4:30

about. Not not not quite,

4:32

but we're talking about Have you ever heard of the term excited

4:35

delirium? Ben, I

4:38

have actually heard of the term

4:41

excited delirium. Though, I am going

4:43

to be honest with you, Robert Sylphe,

4:45

I am not caught up with the textbook

4:47

definition there. What are we talking so

4:51

excited delirium? In short, just to

4:53

introduce the concept is a

4:55

lot of doctors would argue is a faked

4:58

disease invented by police

5:00

to justify murder. And

5:03

that's what we're talking about today. Now the story

5:05

gets much more complicated and shady than

5:07

that. This is a wheel really gonna

5:10

piss you off? Um, But I think I should

5:12

start um with kind of the most recent

5:14

touch point for the term excited delirium,

5:17

which was the killing of George Floyd by

5:19

now convicted murderer Derek Chauvin

5:22

UM, formerly a police officer. When

5:25

Derek Chauvin put his knee in his entire body

5:27

weight on George Floyd's neck for like eight

5:29

minutes or so, uh, the other cops present

5:31

with him knew that something was wrong. One

5:34

officer, a fellow named Lane, asked Chauvin

5:37

should we roll him on his side. Chauvin

5:39

declined, saying no, staying put

5:41

where we got him. Officer Lane then said,

5:44

I am worried about excited delirium

5:46

or whatever. Now, first

5:48

off, that's a very casual or whatever or

5:51

whatever. Right, yes, whatever.

5:56

Whenever somebody adds or whatever

5:59

at the end of a sentence, that means they

6:01

don't care. That's like when somebody adds for

6:03

you at the end of a compliment that means they

6:06

don't like you. Yeah, it's

6:08

it's Can you imagine like going into the doctor and

6:10

being like, yeah, your kidneys are probably shutting down

6:12

or whatever, like you

6:14

you would you would not feel great about

6:16

that doctor. Yeah. Um.

6:19

So the way he used it, excited delirium

6:21

may kind of seem like a nonsense term to you, even

6:23

if you are a medical professional. I know we have a number

6:26

listening, because most doctors do

6:28

not recognize excited delirium

6:30

as a thing. If you don't know the

6:32

history I'm about to go over today, that term

6:34

probably flew over your head. Is just a piece of cop jargon.

6:37

Um, someone who isn't a doctor trying to diagnose

6:40

a man struggling to breathe. But the reality

6:42

of what that term means and how it's used is

6:44

actually much more sinister than that. You

6:46

might be aware that the initial press release the Minneapolis

6:49

Police sent out after Floyd's death was

6:51

man dies after medical incident

6:54

during police interaction, um,

6:57

which is yeah, medical

6:59

and sid it. I mean technically

7:02

that's like you shoot somewhat to death and you're like,

7:04

well, he had a medical incident as

7:06

a result of the lack of blood in his body, and

7:08

it's like, that's not inaccurate,

7:11

but let's tell THEO. But anyway,

7:13

you're probably aware that Chauvin's defense attorney,

7:16

in a constellation of right wing bad faith actors,

7:18

blamed Mr. Floyd's death on a drug

7:20

overdose. What you might not be aware

7:23

of is that the term excited delirium

7:25

is more or less an invented condition created

7:28

mostly by a mixture of cops and the

7:30

Axon Corporation who make tasers

7:32

in order to blame mostly black men murdered

7:34

by the police for their own deaths. The

7:36

whole story of this is bug fuck and

7:38

it will make you want to do things that put the burning of

7:40

the Third Precinct to shame. Um.

7:43

The most immediate precursor to excited

7:46

delirium, the modern term was something

7:48

called Bell's mania, and Bell's

7:50

mania was first described in eighteen forty

7:53

nine by Dr Luther beav Luther

7:55

V. Bell in a publication with

7:57

the no ship real name, The American

8:00

Journal of Insanity.

8:08

I mean, do the page numbers go sequentially

8:11

or like, how how weird are they getting

8:14

with it? You know? And then I guess it's a pretty

8:16

boring journal. I kind

8:18

of want to put out a journal that just cut it, that's just

8:20

titled You're not gonna believe this fucking ship just

8:24

weird physics and deep sea fish

8:27

wild right, Yes, yes, And

8:29

there's like always one article about poop,

8:32

just so we can keep it on the nose enough. So

8:36

Luther Bell published an article in the American

8:38

Journal of Insanity based on his work

8:41

at the psychiatric ward at the Clean Hospital

8:43

in Boston. He observed forty patients

8:45

admitted with what he called fever in delirium,

8:48

and noted that many of them went from experiencing

8:50

hallucinations, agitation, and fever

8:53

to death within several weeks of admission.

8:55

Now Bell was taking notes on a very real phenomenon,

8:58

or at least a series of different aminons

9:00

that kind of presented in similar ways. The

9:02

most likely cause from most of the symptoms

9:04

he was observing was basically

9:07

a lack of antipsychotic medications, which

9:09

didn't exist at the time he was doing his work.

9:11

When those were developed in the nineteen fifties,

9:14

Bell's mania grew markedly less

9:16

common as a diagnosis. Doctors

9:18

today now recognized that most of Bell's

9:20

patients who died were likely suffering

9:22

not from any kind of mania, but from infectious

9:25

or autoimmune encephalitis, something

9:27

that also became much easier to recognize

9:29

and treat in the early nineteen twenties. These were a lot of

9:31

people who are put in institutions with poor

9:33

sanitary standards. They died as a

9:35

result of that, but because they were kind of acting

9:38

erratic and agitated and you know, shrieking

9:41

and stuff. He just kind of like, oh, this

9:43

is some sort of mania, right. The realities they

9:45

have fucking encephalitis in most cases, and

9:47

um antipsychotic medications would have dealt with

9:49

most of the rest of the things. But at the time,

9:51

you know, Bell is not a bad guy here, He's he's

9:54

doing the best or not to my knowledge based

9:56

on what I can read, he seems like he's doing the best he can to

9:58

diagnose the symptom and he just gets it wrong because it's

10:00

sucking eighteen fifty and no one knew anything, you

10:02

know, right, this is

10:04

also people forget you

10:07

know, we put um there.

10:09

There are people who have done

10:12

such excellent, meaningful work in

10:14

the world of medicine, but we forget

10:16

that medicine as an institution

10:19

has these deep systemic

10:21

problems. Like what was the guy's name, Samuel

10:24

Weiss, the guy who got the ship beat out of him

10:26

for asking doctors to wash their hands.

10:29

Yeah, that was a huge controversy.

10:34

So I'm like, I I know, like

10:36

there, I love that you said bad faith actors,

10:39

man, because there are people who are

10:41

working in good faith

10:43

assiduously with the best information

10:46

they have at the time. So I feel

10:48

like what you're saying about Dr Luther

10:50

Bell is that he's

10:53

not trying to be a dick, right

10:56

and he not to knowledge. Yeah, not

11:00

not to what we what we understand from

11:02

the record. And uh, I would

11:04

I would ask you, you know, I know we're going

11:06

somewhere with this, but I want to think about

11:09

this like one of the big questions

11:11

because I think I see where we're going here, Robert.

11:13

One of the big questions is how would

11:15

he feel about the way

11:18

the successor of his

11:20

ideas being used? Right? Yeah,

11:22

And I don't know enough about Bell to tell

11:25

you that, um, but it's

11:27

it's it's going to go to some unexplained,

11:30

unexpected places. He certainly, I don't think saw

11:32

this coming when he was he was doing his best

11:34

to kind of diagnose what he thought was

11:36

a single syndrome. Um

11:39

And kind of that story I just told Bell

11:41

diagnosed of this mania in the eighteen fifties,

11:43

and then in the nineteen fifties, because of better

11:45

medications, it goes away. That would

11:48

probably be the end of the story of Bell's mania

11:50

if it weren't for a friend of the pod cocaine.

11:54

Yes, in the eighties

11:57

cocaine. In seventies, cocaine

11:59

became markedly more common as

12:01

a drug of abuse. Uh and in nineteen

12:03

eighty five, in particular, Miami was rocked

12:06

by a sudden spate of deaths among black

12:08

female sex workers. Thirty

12:10

two women in total died, and upon initial

12:12

examination, their deaths seemed inexplicable.

12:15

The only hint medical examiners in police

12:17

had was the fact that they all had some amount

12:19

of cocaine and other drugs in their system.

12:22

Charles Wetley, a forensics pathologist,

12:25

decided, based on nothing really, that

12:27

a combination of cocaine use and sexual

12:30

intercourse had killed the women. Whatley

12:32

decided that with chronic cocaine use

12:34

quote, the male of the species becomes

12:37

psychotic and the female of the species

12:39

dies in relation to sex, which

12:42

is an incredible It's

12:47

the coke and fucking that's killing them.

12:50

It makes men crazy and it makes women die.

12:53

Wow. Well, and

12:55

this is nineteen eighty five, right, Bell

12:57

had we have an excuse for him getting stuff wrong.

13:00

It's eighteen fifty people most of

13:02

medicine involved tax saws than Charles

13:04

Whatley. There's no excuse to be saying

13:07

this ship um

13:09

he wrote, quote, my gut feeling

13:11

is that this is a terminal event that follows chronic

13:14

use of crack cocaine affecting the nerve receptors

13:16

in the brain. What Lee started

13:18

using the term excited delirium

13:20

to refer to this deadly cocaine fueled

13:23

mania he was pretty sure had to exist.

13:26

Of course he was fucking wrong. Better

13:28

medical examiners and detectives looked into the

13:30

deaths, exhumed a number of bodies and found

13:32

that the women had all been exphyxiated by a serial

13:35

killer. Excited delirium had not caused

13:37

their deaths. But Whatley was off to the races

13:39

now, and the condition he'd more or less invented

13:42

provided a perfect scapegoat for cops

13:44

who were increasingly getting flak overall the

13:46

black people they murdered in custody.

13:48

So that's and and Whatley

13:51

really pulls back to excited delirium to say,

13:53

like, I'm not the first guy recognizing this. You know, there's a history

13:55

of the medical uh and it went

13:57

away in the nineteen fifties, but then cocaine brought it

13:59

back act And this is you know, you can't

14:01

divorce this entirely from the War on

14:04

drugs, Right, You've got Reagan and the White House. People

14:06

are starting to flip out about the dangers of cocaine

14:08

and crack. In particular, crack

14:11

is you know, more associated with the used by

14:13

by use for people who aren't white and rich,

14:15

so it gets really demonized, and Wetley

14:18

provides a way to blame

14:20

people for their own deaths when in the case

14:22

like the thing that the name excited delirium

14:25

comes from a bunch of female black sex

14:27

workers getting murdered by a serial killer, and

14:29

Wetley's immediate jump is like, no, it must

14:31

be their fault. You know, he'd like completely

14:34

misses what it actually happened. Yeah,

14:36

yeah, it's real fucked up. It's mind boggling

14:39

to me because this is something that

14:41

is that is new information.

14:44

The idea that one could

14:46

take this meta

14:49

level of victim blaming, like to the

14:51

extreme, it's over nine thousand

14:53

level of victim blaming and then

14:55

say uh, and then have it been picked

14:58

up as a convenient cause. I mean, you

15:00

know, we've always all

15:03

of us actually on the shows

15:05

that and that hang out together and actual friends

15:07

were all very well aware of

15:10

the the problems with the official

15:12

narrative of the crack cocaine epidemic.

15:15

But you know, it's like the big question, uh,

15:18

the big question about arms races

15:20

too, right, like who's manufacturing the guts?

15:22

Right, Who's who's growing the

15:25

coca plants? Because it's certainly not

15:27

someone in like a you know, Los

15:30

Angeles. Uh. So it

15:32

feels like it feels like this

15:34

is beyond incompetence. I would argue,

15:37

it feels like this guy is intentionally

15:41

skipping some cognitive steps

15:44

to find this interesting. Yeah,

15:47

we're we're gonna be talking about wet Ley a bit later

15:49

in the episode, so keep it. Put a pin

15:51

in that one, ben So got

15:53

it. The excited delirium

15:55

diagnosis spreads like wildfire

15:58

after Since there were also

16:00

an awful lot of cocaine overdoses in this period,

16:02

very few people noticed anything fishy.

16:05

One group of researchers in nineteen ninety

16:07

seven, writing for the Journal of Forensic Science,

16:10

did decide to investigate the troubling

16:12

rise and excited delirium deaths.

16:14

Quote from a registry of all

16:16

cocaine related deaths in Dade County, Florida,

16:18

from nineteen sixty nine to nineteen ninety

16:20

fifty eight. Excited delirium deaths were

16:23

compared with a hundred and twenty five victims of accidental

16:25

cocaine overdose without excited delirium

16:28

compared with controls e d d s. Excited

16:30

delirium deaths were more frequently black,

16:32

male, and younger. They were less likely to have a

16:34

low body mass index, and more likely to

16:36

have died in police custody, to have received

16:38

medical treatment immediately before death, to

16:40

have survived for a longer period, to have

16:43

developed hyperthermia, and to have died

16:45

in summer months. In other

16:47

words, most accidental cocaine

16:49

toxicity deaths were of white people

16:51

who died suddenly, generally not near

16:53

police, because they were partying and doing a bunch of cocaine

16:56

right, and they just dropped dead suddenly because their heart blows

16:58

up. Right. Meanwhile, black

17:00

excited delirium cocaine overdose

17:03

deaths were nearly all black people who

17:05

had been restrained by law enforcement immediately

17:07

prior to their death. The study also

17:10

noted that these excited delirium cocaine

17:12

overdoses tended to have much less

17:14

cocaine in their system than the white cocaine

17:17

overdoses, so these are all getting

17:19

blamed on cocaine. But the excited delirium

17:21

deaths are overwhelmingly black, overwhelmingly involved

17:24

police use of force, and they have a lot less

17:26

cocaine in their systems than the people who are just dying

17:28

of cocaine good stuff. Does

17:31

it add up right, say the quiet

17:33

part out loud, Yes,

17:36

Yeah, it's It was pretty obvious

17:38

to the to the researchers paying attention

17:40

from the beginning what was happening. But

17:42

again most people don't really catch

17:44

on at this stage. Now, if you can read

17:46

between the lines just a little bit, the picture is very

17:49

clear. Cops were arresting black people for drug

17:51

possession and restraining them, Like Derek

17:53

Chauvin. A lot of these cops restrained their suspects

17:56

in a way that caused death. Then they blamed

17:58

that death on cocaine and wrote the deaths

18:00

off as excited delirium cocaine overdoses.

18:03

Dtor Michael baden Of, a prominent

18:05

forensic pathologist who studies deaths

18:07

in police custody and was once the chief medical

18:09

Examiner for New York City, explained

18:11

to Brookings, quote, this is

18:13

the germination of excited delirium. The

18:15

same people who did these prostitution deaths now

18:18

applied excited delirium to cocaine users

18:20

in Miami and people who died while being

18:22

subdued by police. By

18:24

the late nineteen nineties, good doctors

18:26

had started to realize what was going on,

18:28

and a series of studies were published analyzing

18:31

all these excited delirium deaths.

18:33

It became increasingly clear that the key commonality

18:36

in most of these deaths was not cocaine or

18:38

any behavior on the part of the deceased,

18:40

but the fact that they had been put in police custody

18:43

and that less lethal weapons like mace or

18:45

taser's had been used on them. One

18:47

analysis and the Canadian Medical Association

18:50

Journal found quote in all twenty

18:52

one cases of unexpected death associated

18:54

with excited delirium, the deaths were associated

18:56

with restraint for violent agitation

18:58

and hyperactivity, with a person either in a

19:00

prone position eighteen people eighty six

19:03

percent or subjected to pressure on the neck

19:05

three people fourteen percent. All

19:07

those who died had suddenly lapsed into tranquility

19:10

shortly after being restrained. The excited

19:12

delirium was caused by a psychiatric disorder

19:14

in twelve people fifty seven percent, and

19:17

by cocaine induced psychosis in eight

19:19

percent, thirty eight and eight people, thirty

19:21

eight percent, eighteen people, eighty six

19:23

percent were in police custody when they

19:25

died. Four nineteen percent had

19:27

been sprayed with mace, and heart disease

19:29

was found in another four At autopsy, the

19:31

blood level of cocaine and those whose excited

19:33

delirium was cocaine induced was similar

19:35

to levels found in recreational cocaine

19:38

users and lower than levels found in people

19:40

who died from cocaine intoxication. Now,

19:43

it's hard to know the precise scope of the

19:46

problem, but excited delirium deaths

19:48

are based on the evidence we have extremely

19:50

common. Eleven percent of all deaths

19:52

and police custody in Maryland are attributed

19:55

to excited delirium. In the last

19:57

decade, at least fifty three people

19:59

have died in custom in Florida. Some council were

20:01

like eighty five and we're blamed

20:03

on what was more or less a fake cause of death,

20:05

excited delirium. Today, law

20:07

enforcement officers are routinely taught

20:09

in training that excited delirium is a condition

20:12

characterized by sudden aggression and distress,

20:14

generally brought on by the use of illegal substances

20:17

and often ending in sudden death. Excited

20:20

delirium is not recognized as a

20:22

thing by the American Medical Association,

20:24

the American Psychiatric Association,

20:26

the World Health Organization, or the European

20:29

Society of Emergency Medicine, which represents

20:31

doctors in thirty countries. It is not listed

20:34

in the diagnosis in the Diagnostic and Statistical

20:36

Manual of Mental Disorders the d s M

20:38

five. As far as I can tell, only

20:41

two organizations of physicians recognize

20:43

it as a thing, the American College

20:45

of Emergency Physicians and its British

20:48

counterpart. And the

20:50

story of why that is is pretty

20:52

shady. But before we get

20:55

into that, you know what else is shady, Ben,

20:58

the products and services support this podcast.

21:06

We are back, and I've just promised been that

21:09

that um, this is going to get a lot worse,

21:11

uh so much worse. Um

21:13

And I'm making that promise to all of you. By

21:16

the end of this again, you'll

21:18

be thinking about crimes, um,

21:20

which is you know, always

21:22

always the goal here at behind the bastards,

21:25

uh, make you think about crimes, theoretical

21:27

minecraft crimes. So we're

21:32

talking about I mentioned earlier, basically

21:35

all the vast majority of like reputable

21:38

international medical organizations

21:40

where it's like a bunch of doctors and nurses and stuff.

21:43

Uh, do not recognize excited delirium

21:45

as a thing. That d s M does not recognize

21:47

it as a thing, But the American College of Emergency

21:49

Physicians in its British counterpart do And the

21:52

why of that is a very shady story. But

21:54

before we get into that really quickly, maybe

21:56

not so quickly, I want to at least analyze

21:58

the supposed features of this condition that most

22:01

doctors don't believe exists. According

22:03

to the American College of Emergency Physicians,

22:05

excited delirium is characterized

22:07

by quote, bizarre behavior generating

22:10

phone calls to police. So if

22:12

the cops get called on you, that's a sign you

22:14

might have excited delirium.

22:16

Um. Next ship, Yeah,

22:20

Next is failure to respond to police

22:23

presence, and continued

22:25

struggle despite restraint. The syndrome,

22:28

apparently in Taos, individuals with superhuman

22:30

strength and makes them impervious to

22:32

pain. If you're thinking, boy,

22:35

it seems like people are using medical jargon

22:37

to justify racism and brutality.

22:39

You're right, that is very much

22:41

out. Yeah, it's

22:43

nice but terrible. Everyone who resists

22:46

has an illness that kills them. So if they

22:48

resist and we beat them to death, it's

22:50

their illness that made them resist, the police

22:53

that killed them, not us beating them to death.

22:55

That's cop logic. Oh,

22:58

you know, the whole time we

23:00

were on the break, this was making me think

23:02

of you know, I can't be the only person

23:04

in the crowd today thinking this makes

23:06

me think of the way, like hysteria

23:08

got described as a legit medical

23:11

condition, right yeah,

23:14

but while um skipping ahead

23:16

a little bit. While hysteria was often at

23:18

least treated by you know, vibrators,

23:22

um, excited delirium

23:24

is treated with tasers, you

23:26

also said. You also said as stute listeners

23:28

will notice you use the phrase

23:31

less lethal instead of the entirely

23:34

misleading phrase non lethal.

23:36

Right, No, there is uh actually

23:38

no such thing as a non lethal weapon.

23:41

Um. If it's a weapon, it can

23:43

kill people. It might be hard to kill people,

23:45

but it will kill them. Um

23:47

if you if you really go at it. We should

23:50

probably lay at a few specific cases of excited

23:52

delirium deaths to explain just how

23:55

often like this diagnosis is applied.

23:57

One A good example is the case of Gregory

24:00

Lloyd Edwards, a thirty eight year old U.

24:02

S. Army veteran with PTSD who was exhibited.

24:04

He was agitated and aggressive

24:06

and stuff. You know. He was dealing

24:08

with some ship when he was arrested.

24:11

In order to quote unquote restrain him, police

24:13

beat tasted, pepper sprayed and strapped

24:16

him into a restraint chair at the Brevard County

24:18

Jail. From an article by Florida Today.

24:20

Quote when deputies found Edwards unresponsive

24:23

in his cell at the Brevord County Jail about twenty

24:25

five minutes after their confrontation with him ended, he

24:27

was strapped in a restraint chair, his hands cuffed

24:29

behind his back, with a fine mesh spithood

24:31

over his head and pepper spray still

24:34

on his face. Notwithstanding his

24:36

restraint was deemed to be of secondary importance

24:38

when Breford's medical examiner, Dr Sajid

24:40

Kaiser established a cause

24:43

of death. According to the autopsy report,

24:45

Edwards died of excited delirium and

24:47

complications due to hyperactive

24:49

and violent state with subsequent restraint.

24:52

His widow, Kathleen Edwards, was both perplexed

24:54

and frustrated by Kwaiser's found finding

24:56

sitting in a cracker barrel restaurant with her small

24:59

daughter. She said she never heard of the term before.

25:01

What is that? Like? I know what delirium

25:03

is, and I know what being excited is, But what is

25:06

excited delirium? How does that

25:08

kill you? That's a good question.

25:11

Eighty five people in Florida have died from

25:13

excited delirium over the last ten years.

25:16

Florida Today to Day review of those deaths,

25:18

which took place from two thousand nine to two thousand

25:20

nineteen, to try and analyze just how it

25:22

was applied. They note that medical reports

25:25

for deaths and police custody are quote almost

25:27

exclusively. The only places where

25:30

the term apply appears in medical reports

25:32

throughout the state, so the only almost

25:34

the only time the diagnosis

25:36

of excited delirium is given is when people

25:38

have died in police custody.

25:40

Most of these cases did involve illegal

25:42

drugs, usually cocaine or methamphetamine,

25:45

but use of force by law enforcement was

25:47

just as common. Sixty excited

25:50

delirium deaths in Florida involved police

25:52

use of force. In another fifteen percent of

25:54

cases, it was unclear whether or

25:57

not police used force. Of

26:00

excited delirium deaths are men. Thirty

26:02

six percent of Florida's eighty five excited

26:04

delirium deaths were black men. While

26:06

seventy percent of excited delirium deaths

26:09

involved some sort of sim of sim

26:11

of stimulant narcotic, All but one

26:13

of the deaths that did not involve drugs

26:15

involved use of force by law enforcement

26:18

from Florida Today quote. One

26:20

such case took place on February ninth, the two

26:22

eighteen, when twenty year old Aaron Parker

26:24

was reportedly found naked, bleeding and sweating

26:26

profusely, and lying in the medium of a Tallahassee

26:29

street. Police tried to handcuff Parker

26:31

and admit him under the Marchmon Act, the drug abuse

26:33

equivalent of the Baker Act. The Tallahassee

26:35

Police Department said Parker began throwing punches,

26:38

prompting a sergeant to deploy his taser. He

26:40

was then given a sedative by e MS. Parker

26:42

had to be resuscitated en route to the hospital.

26:45

He died a week later. His death

26:47

is reportedly still under investigation, and police

26:49

withheld use of force information from the public

26:51

for a week following his death. The medical

26:53

examiner ruled Parker's death and accident

26:56

due to excited delirium associated with probable

26:58

drug use. Ker's toxicology

27:01

turned up positive only for cannabinoids,

27:03

not stimulants. So this

27:06

guy gets beaten and taste by police, dies

27:08

on the way to the hospital. The

27:10

medical examiner says, it's an excited delirium, probably

27:13

because of all the drugs he was doing, and then they found

27:15

out he just had a little bit of pot in the system. Like that.

27:18

I'm quoting this because it's representative

27:20

of a lot of these debts. Wow,

27:23

and you know that. What's what's interesting

27:25

there is, you know, the immediate question would

27:28

be, is there someone

27:31

who has a cause of death

27:33

listed as excited delirium

27:36

without in any way touching

27:38

on uh, you know, the like

27:41

law enforcement finding them

27:43

and and doing these horrific things

27:45

to them, Like, is there is there someone

27:48

I'm just interested. Yeah, there are some excited

27:50

delirium deaths that don't involve police use

27:52

of force and do involve drugs

27:54

a lot. Like some medical examiners will say, well,

27:56

it seems like it was a drug overdose or someone whose heart

27:58

stopped because you know, they or on drugs,

28:01

and excited delirium is an odd thing to apply

28:03

to that. Well, we'll get into that a little bit. It

28:06

is not always diagnosed for people

28:08

who die in police custody,

28:10

but it is predominantly diagnosed for people

28:12

who die in police custody. More

28:14

than three quarters of excited delirium deaths

28:16

are ultimately determined to be accidents.

28:19

Only seven percent are declared to be

28:21

homicides. This is significant

28:23

because when a death is declared a homicide,

28:26

there has to be an investigation, but

28:29

it means a homicide at death. Being a homicide

28:31

means that a person's death was the result of another

28:33

human being's actions. This is

28:35

why police like to have them declared excited

28:37

delirium, because then a death that was the result

28:39

of a person's action gets declared

28:41

not that, and there doesn't have to be an investigation.

28:44

This is why Minneapolis police tried

28:46

to declare George Floyd's death caused

28:48

by a medical incident, because then it's not

28:50

a homicide. Then there's no investigation.

28:53

Right. That's the value of this diagnosis

28:55

to law enforcement. It's

28:58

cool stuff. Yeah,

29:01

having a hard time articulating

29:04

just how horrific

29:07

that is because you can get you

29:12

tell me and I'm I'm here for it. I'm

29:14

here for it, but I'm just thinking like this

29:16

is essentially at

29:19

least in some cases. I think you've

29:21

I think you've made a very solid argument that

29:24

this functions as a not a necessarily

29:26

get out of jail card, but to stay out

29:28

of jail card for law enforcement. Would

29:30

you agree with that? Yeah, And it's it's a

29:33

it's a sweep it under the rug diagnosis.

29:35

It's a we call this is this

29:38

was just the result they took drugs, So number one,

29:40

it's their fault. And number two, we don't have to

29:42

be investigated for how our behavior

29:45

may have contributed to their deaths. That's

29:48

why you do it. Dr

29:52

Wetley, who popularized the term

29:54

excited delirium, continues to be one of

29:56

the most prominent voices in medicine supporting

29:58

the existence of excited delirium as a deadly

30:01

syndrome. He and other doctors like him

30:03

theorized that the debt these deaths are caused

30:05

by an excess of catechola means catechola

30:08

means whatever. I'm not a doctor, a category

30:10

of neurotransmitters that includes adrenaline.

30:13

Again, I'm not a doctor, so I can't weigh in on

30:15

this one way or the other. But other doctors

30:17

have waited on this, and one of them is Dr Michael

30:20

Baden. He has issues with Dr

30:22

Wetley's reasoning quote. This is

30:24

Baden. If an overproduction of adrenaline

30:26

is behind excited delirium, why hasn't

30:28

excited delirium been cited as the cause of

30:30

death for a police officer or a soldier

30:33

since they're also exposed to highly stressful situations

30:35

daily. Right? Why

30:37

is it only people who die in police

30:40

custody? Almost only people who die in police custody

30:42

who get this diagnosis if it's caused

30:44

by overproduction of adrenaline, Because, like I'm

30:46

gonna guess, a lot of fucking Marines would be dropped

30:48

into this if it was an overproduction of adrenaline

30:51

issue. You know it's He makes a good point.

30:54

He adds, in general, I am of the strong

30:56

opinion that excited delirium is a boutique

30:59

kind of diagnosis created, unfortunately

31:01

by many of my forensic pathology colleagues,

31:03

specifically for persons dying when being

31:06

restrained by law enforcement. So

31:09

that's doctor again. I can't really weigh

31:11

in specifically on and called Dr Whatley

31:13

wrong. I'm not a doctor, but doctor Michael Bayden

31:15

is a doctor, and he's weighing in. I think you're

31:18

being very fair. Yeah, I mean, I just I

31:20

I try not to like delve too deeply into medicine

31:22

because I'm not a fucking doctor, which is why I try

31:24

to see what other doctors are saying, and a lot of them

31:26

are frustrated by this. Now, I will

31:28

say other credible physicians are somewhat more

31:30

measured in their phrasing than Dr Baden was.

31:33

Dr Russell Vega, chief medical examiner

31:35

for Florida's twelfth District, described excited

31:37

delirium mass quote more of a behavioral

31:40

state than an underlying medical diagnosis,

31:42

and in general, medical examiners are statutorially

31:45

tasked with and thus more focused on determining

31:47

and recording the underlying medical condition

31:49

than the behavioral state at the time of death. That

31:52

is polite doctor speak for saying medical

31:54

examiners shouldn't care how someone acted

31:56

before they died. They should care about what killed them,

31:59

which is about is like restrained away as kind

32:01

of questioning Dr Wetley's logic as you're going to

32:03

get. Dr Stephen J. Nelson

32:06

is the chair of the Florida Medical Examiner's

32:08

Commission and the Medical examiner for Florida's

32:10

tenth district. He said that he avoids

32:12

using excited delirium in his district. Quote,

32:15

it's like saying, somebody dies from cardio

32:17

respiratory arrest. Well, yeah, everybody

32:19

dies because their heart and their lungs stopped working. So

32:21

it's not really helpful. So

32:24

if you've been paying attention throughout all this so far,

32:26

you should have a couple of big questions, chief among

32:28

them, why do some real doctors

32:30

back up excited delirium as a thing?

32:33

If medical consensus seems to agree

32:35

that it does not work the way cops say it does,

32:37

even if it might be a legitimate way

32:39

to describe behavior, it's not a medical diagnosis,

32:41

why do some doctors disagree with that? Well,

32:44

then that's gonna bring us two

32:46

friend of the pod, the Axon Corporation,

32:49

makers of the Taser now

32:51

the original taser. Yeah yeah,

32:53

yeah, yeah, we all know that sound. The

32:56

original Taser was invented in the mid nineteen

32:58

seventies, and the first Taser corporate ration

33:00

was founded in nine It changed its

33:02

name to ax On pretty recently, used

33:04

to be called the Taser Corporation. I'm just going to call them Axon

33:07

for our purposes today because it's easier. From

33:09

the beginning, the major selling point for Taser

33:12

was that their weapons were less than lethal. Today,

33:14

Axon's website has a whole page titled

33:17

how Safe our Tasers, on which

33:19

they currently claim that their weapons have saved two

33:21

hundred and forty eight thousand, nine hundred and seventy

33:24

four lives to date nineties. They

33:26

say that ninety nine point seven five

33:29

percent of Taser uses result in no serious

33:31

injury. Now, given

33:33

that their business is providing a less lethal

33:35

option for a force option for police,

33:38

Axon stands to lose a lot of

33:40

money each time somebody's heart stops because

33:42

they get tased repeatedly. So decades

33:45

ago, they decided to make sure that that would not

33:47

happen. Step one was to hire

33:49

as many doctors as they could buy, men

33:51

and women who would take ax On money to carry

33:54

out studies proving the safety of tasers

33:56

and who would be willing to take to the stand in order

33:58

to defend America's favorite a extrocution

34:00

tool from claims that people sometimes died

34:02

when shot with it. One of their

34:04

first paid experts was Dr Wetley,

34:07

the same man who popularized excited delirium

34:09

as a diagnosis back in the mid nineteen eighties.

34:12

That's right, he's an ax On employee. There

34:15

we go, Oh, well done.

34:17

I didn't want to. I didn't want a positive guest

34:19

because they didn't want to seem prejudiced or unfailed.

34:22

But uh so, so

34:24

it's kind of like, um uh,

34:27

it's kind of like a company

34:29

that makes that makes

34:32

ship proof pants is saying new

34:34

studies find shipping your pants randomly

34:37

is amazing on multiple

34:39

levels. Right, provides

34:41

a wide variety of health benefits. Right,

34:45

that's terrible. So this is our bastard.

34:47

Uh well, one of them. There's a bunch

34:50

of them. Actually, a

34:52

lot of doctors are taking that axe on cash,

34:54

it turns out. Um now, I

34:57

don't know precisely when Dr Wetley

34:59

started working for as On. In two thousands

35:01

seventeen, Reuters interviewed him as part

35:03

of an incredibly detailed investigation

35:06

they did into taser deaths, a really wonderful piece

35:08

of work. Dr Whatley claimed

35:10

that the company had approached him quote more

35:12

than a decade ago, which conveniently

35:14

could mean anything from the early adds to

35:16

the late nineties, when Taser started taking

35:18

off. We don't know exactly

35:20

when now. Quote from

35:22

Reuter's Whatley said that excited delirium

35:25

is a genuine condition and that the vast majority

35:27

of deaths involving taser's he studied were caused

35:29

by it. I've never seen a case where I

35:31

could say that a taser actually contributed to

35:33

the death, he said. As far as interfering with

35:35

the heart rhythm, he added, there's never been any

35:37

convincing evidence that that can actually take place.

35:41

Now, one person who disagrees was Dr Whatley

35:44

is doctor Werner Spitz, one of the foremost

35:46

forensic pathologists in the country. He

35:49

testified at the O. J. Simpsons civil trial

35:51

and at one point was called into review the autopsy

35:53

of President John F. Kennedy. Spitz

35:56

has seen a number of cases where a taser caused

35:58

death, and when informed of doctor Least claim

36:00

to the contrary, he told Reuters quote,

36:03

if you fire a taser into the precordial

36:05

area where the heart is, whether the front or

36:08

back, the electric current may very well

36:10

interfere with the electrical impulses that

36:12

go to the heart. But

36:15

I mean, I'm sure we can trust Dr Wetley on

36:17

this. You know, he doesn't have a conflict

36:19

of interest, no reliable,

36:22

credible, it's

36:24

good ship. All his all his friends

36:26

and family members get tasers for

36:29

Christmas. You're right, because they're so safe. Yeah,

36:33

uh safe. You know what else is safe?

36:37

This is a This is a shift from the first

36:40

ad break the RNA next

36:42

nine missile by Lockheed Martin and Raytheon

36:45

with the R nine X. Have you ever been thinking, ben,

36:47

I want to kill most of the people in that

36:50

car, but not all of the people

36:52

in the other cars around them. Yeah.

36:54

There are a lot of Honda Odyssees in Atlanta,

36:56

and you know it's it's it's tough to tell

36:58

when you look through the window because there could

37:00

be like nine to twelve people in there. You never

37:02

know there could be and maybe you only want to kill three to

37:05

four. That's why we have the R nine

37:07

X, as Lockheed Martin and Raytheon

37:09

say, the R nine X, it'll funk

37:12

up a Honda Odyssey. Al Right, here's

37:14

some other ads. We

37:21

are back. Uh, we're back,

37:23

and we're talking about whether or not

37:25

it's possible to be killed by a taser, which

37:27

a lot of doctors say absolutely.

37:29

There's hundreds of evidence of cases

37:32

where that's happened in which Dr Charles

37:34

Wetley, paid employee of

37:36

the Axon Corporation, says, no. Never

37:42

imagine if guns were I mean,

37:44

gun companies have fought hard to be

37:46

immune not just like liability for what their products

37:48

are used for, but to be immune to liability if they

37:51

make guns that like fire when they're not supposed

37:53

to. Like look up tourists, you know, they

37:55

there was a case where like their safeties didn't work

37:57

and a bunch of people had their guns fire

37:59

randomly into their legs and died, and tourists

38:01

wasn't liable because again it's America.

38:04

Weapons manufacturers have the inherent

38:06

right to argue that their weapons

38:09

don't harm people even when they do. And

38:11

that's cool. I guess which can

38:13

I just say, you see things like this happen

38:16

on a daily basis, and

38:18

I don't know about you guys, but I can't

38:20

even slide on like overdue

38:23

finds at the library, you know what I

38:25

mean, like Blockbuster knowing my luck

38:27

will probably come find me at some point because

38:29

I never gave back Police Academy.

38:32

You know, they'll fucking taste the ship out of you over

38:34

that Police Academy DVD. At

38:37

least it's not police academy too. You know,

38:39

if you die over police academy, that's

38:41

okay. Dying over police academy too is

38:43

a bridge too far. Yeah,

38:47

yeah, no, it's it's given me a dark night

38:49

of the soul more than once, to be honest.

38:51

But but you're right, like the temerity

38:55

too, especially if you're a medical

38:57

professional, right you one could

38:59

make the argument that, Okay,

39:02

funding I have received or my

39:04

employer does not affect

39:07

my professional opinion. I think it's

39:09

a bullshit argument, but it's an argument

39:11

people can make. But to do that

39:14

on top of this sort of layer

39:16

cake of you

39:18

know, pardon me, of

39:21

of actively ignoring a

39:23

mountain of evidence, that just seems like, I

39:27

don't like, at what point do you get your license

39:30

revoked? You know what I mean? It seems

39:32

like never, And it's like, yeah, it's

39:34

it's very shady where that's a big

39:36

part of the story that we're going to get into because

39:38

Whatley is not the only doctor who's

39:40

double dipping in this way. Now.

39:43

When I first started digging into this subject

39:45

and was trying to I was trying to answer the question, is

39:47

excited delirium real or is it something

39:50

that the cops invented um,

39:52

and that article in Florida Today that I've quoted

39:54

from brought me to Dr Deborah Mash,

39:57

who's a professor emeritus at the University of

39:59

Miami's Miller School of Medicine. According

40:01

to the article, she's been studying the concept

40:03

of excited delirium for decades. She

40:06

is one of the most prominent medical voices who

40:08

will argue that it is a real syndrome. I

40:10

can't argue with her credentials, but from the beginning

40:12

some of her arguments sounded odd to me. Quote,

40:16

people are in a psychiatric state, and that condition

40:18

is a delirium. This delirium that people

40:20

experience, which is why police get involved in

40:22

the first place. So that's

40:25

odd, uh that that Like

40:28

again, she's going back to that, like excited

40:30

delirium. One of the ways we recognize that is if

40:32

the cops get called on you, which seems

40:34

like a weird thing for a medical diagnosis

40:37

to be. Now, Mash has published

40:39

a variety of peer reviewed articles making the

40:41

case for excited delirium is a real thing,

40:44

and as far as I can tell, I think she's the

40:46

first person who traced it to Bell's mania.

40:48

It might have been Wetley. I'm not exactly certain

40:50

on that. They both I think will make that

40:52

argument. Mash has published

40:54

a variety of peer reviewed articles in which

40:56

she makes the case for excited delirium being

40:59

well documented in founded in medicine

41:01

and medical history, tracing its early

41:03

description to Bell's mania. Um.

41:05

Florida Today asked her for her take on the

41:07

Gregory Edwards case. That's the vet

41:10

with PTSD who died after being tased and

41:12

restrained and maced. She agreed

41:14

that Edwards was suffering from excited delirium,

41:16

but she also called his death unnecessary,

41:19

arguing that he should have been taken to a hospital

41:21

rather than being put into custody. And

41:23

she threats an interesting needle here, sort

41:25

of throwing some soft blame on law enforcement

41:28

for the man's death, but she stopped short of actually

41:30

saying that anything in particular they did,

41:33

or any tool that they used killed

41:35

him. The feeling you get reading

41:37

her answer is that his excited delirium

41:40

killed him because he did not receive

41:42

medical treatment for it. Now,

41:44

this sounds a lot more reasonable than the

41:46

standard law enforcement line he died because

41:48

he was on drugs, But it really is

41:50

just a variant of the same thing. His death

41:53

was unnecessary, but he was not

41:55

killed as a direct result of police

41:57

use of force. Bad

42:02

faith that

42:06

argument, right, it does seem

42:08

like a bad faith argument. Would you be surprised

42:10

to know that Dr Deborah Marsha's

42:12

mentor is one doctor Charles Wetley,

42:15

Absolutely fucking not. Yeah,

42:19

him her mentor um And he's probably

42:22

the person who recommended that the Axon

42:24

Corporation hire her to be an expert

42:26

witness in more than a dozen lawsuits.

42:29

Oh yeah,

42:35

Yeah, that's that good ship. That's that good

42:37

good griftin ship. Yeah.

42:41

It's like these people are like the evil the taser

42:43

doctors are like the evil version of the pot

42:45

doctors. Right in California, before it was legal,

42:48

we used to have all these pot doctors who were like clearly

42:50

doctors who had been disgraced or wanted to

42:52

retire. It would just be like, I'm I used to

42:54

be a fucking oncologist.

42:57

I saw too many people die. Now I

42:59

like drunk in a room and tell people

43:01

give people pot prescriptions. And that was fine,

43:04

Like, I have no issue with those doctors. Actually

43:08

it was amazing because anytime I wanted

43:10

because I used to smoke a ton back then, and it was

43:13

it wasn't like I'm not just getting wasted

43:15

during the day, I'm taking prescribed medicine,

43:17

sir. Like you just go down to Venice Speech

43:19

and there'd be some guys in and white

43:22

coats, the doctors, and yeah,

43:25

my favorite was the doctor was like horribly

43:28

sunburned, long white hair, looked

43:30

like an old hippie, wearing like board shorts

43:32

and a T shirt with a lab coat over them.

43:34

And outside of his office on Venice

43:36

Beach there was like bolted to the

43:39

wall of a day glow painting

43:41

of the Mona Lisa with a blunt in her hand, and

43:43

it just felt very medical and

43:47

super subtle to write, very

43:49

subtle. Yeah, these

43:51

taser doctors are are not more

43:54

subtle than the pot doctors. But where

43:56

the While the pot doctors are like, I'm tired of practicing

43:58

medicine. I just want to make enough money

44:00

to retire telling people they could smoke pot,

44:03

these guys are like, I'm not

44:05

tired of medicine, but I would

44:07

like to make money justifying deaths

44:10

due to police use of force and tasers

44:13

by claiming that tasers didn't kill them,

44:15

drugs did, which is a lot worse

44:17

um, so you'll

44:20

see Doctor Deborah Mash quoted a lot as a

44:22

subject matter expert on excited delirium

44:25

UM. That Florida Today article quoted

44:28

Mash at length, but did not note her financial

44:30

relationship with ax On. The

44:32

thing that makes Dr Mash brilliant is her

44:34

ability to express total sympathy for

44:37

victims and seemed like she's not defending

44:39

the cops while averting all responsibility

44:42

from the cops. She told Reuters

44:44

that the Edwards case was heartbreaking and

44:46

avoided the obviously chutty move of blaming

44:48

the victim directly. Instead, she blamed

44:51

budgetary constraints and the health care system.

44:53

Quote, he was failed by healthcare

44:56

providers, and the jails don't have the money

44:58

for the staffing that they need. They need

45:00

the nurse practitioners who are trained in psychiatry

45:03

to identify the problem.

45:05

See, it's not the cops fault,

45:08

it's that it's the fact that they don't have enough

45:10

money to have nurses in the jails. We're

45:12

got to give the cops more money and then these people

45:14

won't be dying because obviously the cops will spend that money

45:16

on nurses and not on more tasers. Oh

45:20

god, you know, I'm golf clapping at the

45:23

matrix. Dodge sound

45:25

goes in. It's impressive, Like

45:27

she's not a dumb person, which is

45:29

why ax On Paser Mash

45:32

is so valuable to ax On that she's become

45:34

their point woman in Florida whenever someone gets

45:36

killed by a taser. But Axon

45:38

is a big company and they employ a number

45:41

of other medical experts in different states.

45:43

And in part two of this episode, Ben, we're

45:45

going to talk about the saga of

45:48

Dr Jeffrey Hoe. But that's

45:50

gonna have to come Thursday, um,

45:52

because because we are done for

45:55

the day, given a give a nice little

45:57

bit of background. Who

46:00

so, Ben, you got some plugs

46:02

for us? How you doing you get some plugs? Oh?

46:05

Yeah? First off, I'd

46:07

like to thank everybody at Axon.

46:10

Uh they're they're paying me for

46:13

a period on this show and parts now. Uh

46:16

yeah yeah. So if

46:19

if you like Behind the Bastards, we uh,

46:21

I hope you check out stuff

46:23

they don't want you to know. It's a show I

46:25

do with a critical thinking applied

46:27

to corruption and conspiracy

46:30

theories. You can also check out the show

46:32

Ridiculous History, which is

46:34

exactly what it sounds like we were not super

46:37

freaking creative with the name. To be honest with

46:39

you, Uh, and you can also find uh

46:41

find me on Twitter or Instagram where

46:44

I am at ben Bolan. This

46:46

is amazingly depressing.

46:48

Robert. Yeah, it's it's pretty much a bummer.

46:51

Yes, and I hope everybody makes

46:53

it safely to Thursday. Yes,

46:55

avoid the cops, don't get tased,

46:58

and if you get excited to don't

47:01

be delirious. I guess,

47:03

don't be delirious. Eat Derito's.

47:06

Oh boy, we even't had a Doritos

47:08

plug in a minute, we'll catch Hill on Thursday.

47:11

We'll talk about Dr Jeffrey Ho. We'll

47:13

we'll throw out some ads from our new sponsor,

47:15

Linco Industries, maker of the Bearcat

47:17

G three, which is of course, the most popular

47:20

wheeled armored response vehicle by American

47:22

law enforcement squat teams. Lynco.

47:25

If you are a small police department who needs

47:28

a vehicle that can take an

47:30

explosion for no real reason, your

47:33

best bet is Linco. That's the

47:35

episode.

47:39

Uh, good times, m