0:03

Oh, Michael

0:06

Swam Robert Evans

0:08

behind the bastards sweaty

0:10

gay dance parties, Which is

0:12

what I said right before the recording started, because

0:15

Michael and I were talking about the movie To Tan. That's

0:18

most of the pertinent information that is,

0:20

like, yeah,

0:23

watch to Tan. It's it's

0:25

a fun movie about some guys who like to dance

0:27

and nothing else. There's certainly nothing

0:30

off putting in it. Automobile

0:32

aficionados, let's say, do

0:34

you like cars, really like cars?

0:37

Check out to Tan. To Tan might be for

0:39

you. Michael, how are you doing

0:41

as we as we sail like

0:44

the Santa Maria into

0:46

part three of our episode of Columbus.

0:49

I'm great, Robert, happy to be back

0:51

and super excited for the third

0:53

act, where which we all know as

0:56

the Redemption Act. This is where

0:58

this is it out right, He'll

1:00

just finally get on an even keel about

1:03

joke. Uh, stop

1:05

being such a prick. Learned to walk a mile on another's

1:08

pantolons. Yeah, this is where he becomes

1:10

the hero that we all know, Christopher Columbus

1:13

grows up. I'm waiting. I'm waiting

1:15

for this to morph into Friends with

1:17

the Pilgrims for Thanksgiving. This exactly,

1:23

exactly this, This is the episode

1:25

we're going to open in media rez as

1:27

he is managing a cinnabon in the Midwest,

1:30

and then we'll go back to explain. Um

1:33

now, um, Although, man, you

1:35

could make a pretty good Columbus movie

1:38

with Bob oden Kirk playing Christopher Columbus.

1:41

I'd watch it. I'm just gonna say it right now.

1:43

I would watch it. Um.

1:46

Michael On February three, Michael

1:48

Small means Network. By the way, probably

1:52

we should lead up front with the plugs. Yeah, we always

1:54

time for that. Okay, but we do it. We do it both, we

1:56

do it both. Robert

2:00

Evans here, I wanted to make a quick correction. You

2:02

know, when I was talking about the Tano, the other

2:04

air walk people's the Caribs, Um,

2:06

I I used terms like genocide, which is absolutely

2:09

accurate. But I also used terms phrases

2:11

like wiped out or extinct. This

2:13

is not entirely accurate. I wanted to

2:15

emphasize the level of destruction because

2:18

it's so much an excess of what we see

2:20

even when normally talking about genocides. Sixteen

2:22

years on most of these islands, you're

2:25

lucky if ten percent of the original

2:27

population is around UM and

2:29

it's true that if you look up the Tano you

2:31

will find a lot of references to them being wiped at.

2:33

Wikipedia says they were historic

2:35

indigenous people of the Caribbean UM,

2:38

but of course they had descendants. There are

2:40

people who did survive, notably

2:43

on what is now Haiti. A lot of folks escaped

2:45

into the mountains UM and later met

2:47

up with escaped slaves and were part of resistance

2:50

UM and exist to this day in that

2:52

area. UM. Some forty three thousand

2:54

of the I think two points seven

2:57

million people UM in Puerto

2:59

Rico have some degree of Taino ancestry.

3:02

Three point seven million people, so forty three

3:04

point seven million people in Puerto Rico have some Taino

3:07

ancestry. Obviously, the level of

3:09

destruction was intense, which is why I

3:11

felt like emphasizing it. But it's been pointed out

3:13

to me that this is also a tactic

3:15

that's used to kind of act as

3:17

if these people's are completely gone,

3:19

as sort of a well, there's nothing we can do, right, there's

3:21

no way to make amends to them because Columbus

3:23

wiped them out. UM. There's a lot that's problematic

3:26

with this I'm not having the time to get into it

3:28

properly, and this is not that show. But I wanted to number

3:30

one, kind of acknowledge that I

3:32

should not have said things the way I did. We tried

3:34

to cut some of that out of the episodes once I became

3:37

aware of it. UM. But I also

3:39

wanted to recommend a couple of different resources

3:41

that people do want to read more about this, because in addition

3:43

to the fact there there are a number

3:46

of Tano communities that have continued

3:48

to exist since first

3:50

contact, there are also Taino descended

3:52

people who are attempting to revive some of the traditions

3:55

and culture UM and reclaim that for

3:57

themselves. So if you want to look at SMITHSNY

4:00

magazine has an article called What Became of the

4:02

Tano by Robert Poole that was published in two

4:04

thousand eleven. UM. In Puerto

4:06

Rico, U there are attempts ongoing

4:09

UM to add Taino studies

4:12

to classrooms and to schools

4:14

and stuff in the area, UM and elsewhere in the United

4:16

States. There's a good NBC News article on that

4:18

called Puerto Rico seeks to preserve Tino history,

4:20

revived culture, and then probably the

4:23

resource that is most worth reading

4:25

is an article in American Indian Magazine

4:28

titled Abuela's Ancestors and a

4:30

tabby the Spirit of Tano Resurgence.

4:33

It's by Christina Gonzalez and it was published

4:35

in the fall of two thousand eighteen. UM,

4:37

so I would really recommend checking out

4:39

that article, um for American

4:42

Indian Magazine. UM yeah, sorry

4:44

for the error, and please keep doing

4:47

good stuff. Oh

4:51

great dogs, yah

4:53

yeah, lovely. Well. Hey, I'll you focus

4:55

people well for a split second. While I

4:58

have that focus, please devote yours engine

5:00

to the Small Beans podcasting network,

5:03

which you can find more out

5:05

about simply by googling that phrase,

5:07

or you could head over to patreon dot com

5:09

slash small Beans if you really want to get your

5:11

handle around everything we do. And

5:14

or completely unrelatedly, if

5:17

you're a fan of podcasts on the I Heart network,

5:19

and I know you are because you're listening to this and

5:21

you like video games, check out another podcast

5:23

I run with my co host Adam Ganzer. That's called

5:25

One Upsmanship One ups

5:28

man Ship. Wow.

5:31

That's also the title of my podcast,

5:33

which is about how ups transports

5:36

products and services around the world.

5:38

Is it break time? It's just it's just

5:40

pronounced one upsmanship um,

5:44

which is about there anyway. Whatever, the people

5:46

who are right are super into the relationship

5:48

between the package deliver and the package.

5:51

That's that's what really draws me in about global

5:53

capitalism. So on February,

5:57

Columbus sailed into the Azors off

6:00

of the coast of Africa with several dozen

6:02

crewmen on the Pinta, the only remaining

6:04

ship of his fleet that was still under his direct

6:06

control, which most people don't know. He loses

6:08

control. He either sinks or loses control

6:11

of two thirds of the fleet that he brings with

6:13

him. And if I recall, he took

6:15

this as a sign from God that things were going

6:17

really well. The things are going great. Yes,

6:20

despite the fact that yeah, he's he's lost

6:23

most of his fleet. The voyage was, one

6:25

has to say, a stunning success by most

6:27

reasonable standards, because they are going out

6:29

into the complete unknown for them

6:32

via an untried route that people

6:34

had not attempted previously

6:36

in boats like this, who people who were members of

6:38

his civilization had not attempted previously.

6:41

They had established a settlement there and then

6:43

they had returned crew and home, and most

6:45

of his crew didn't die so

6:48

far a lot of them actually did die not

6:51

at this point. Um. Upon

6:53

landing in the Azars and disembarking about

6:55

half of his crew, they were immediately arrested by

6:57

the Portuguese over a misunderstanding. This

6:59

was dealt with, though, and they were soon off reprovisioned

7:02

for the Spanish coast, and early March,

7:04

a horrible storm hit the sea, and Columbus was

7:06

worried enough about sinking that he attached a letter

7:09

to the King and Queen to the front mast of his ship

7:11

so that it would have a better chance of like getting

7:13

washed to shore if the boat got sunk.

7:16

Um. So the letters contained like a guide

7:18

to how to get to you know, where he'd sailed

7:20

to and left a colony, and also a

7:23

grand promise quote within seven

7:25

years, I shall give your highnesses enough money

7:27

to pay for five thousand nights and fifty

7:29

thou foot soldiers for the conquest of Jerusalem,

7:32

the ultimate goal behind your decision to undertake

7:34

the enterprise. Um.

7:37

So that's good. I want to

7:39

know what misunderstanding Columbus was

7:41

arrested for. Oh, it was just because,

7:43

like you know, Spain and Portugal are both

7:45

the big Catholic countries. So they're supposed to be friends,

7:47

but they actually are constantly in conflict, and

7:49

so it was like it was

7:51

that sort of thing. So Columbus does

7:54

make it back to Spain alive. The indigenous people

7:56

he had captured and the objects that he had brought

7:58

back from the Caribbean with him were deeply impressive

8:01

to his sovereigns, as were his lurid

8:03

descriptions of the so called indies. But

8:05

Columbus had not yet found what he had promised

8:08

them, which is a reliable source of gold.

8:10

As a result, he quickly found himself embellishing

8:13

and outright fibbing to make his achievements

8:15

sound more impressive in the terms that his sovereign's

8:17

valued. Lawrence bear Green writes, quote,

8:20

he offered his journal as evidence, bolstered by

8:22

the testimony of the others who had accompanied him, in

8:24

the hope of claiming the riches and titles and glory

8:26

to which he believed he was entitled, even

8:28

divinely ordained to have carefully

8:31

embellished and edited to meet Ferdinand and Isabella's

8:33

expectations and his contractual obligations

8:35

to them. The journal purported to demonstrate

8:37

that he had accomplished and even exceeded his mission

8:40

to the point of establishing a Spanish outpost

8:42

and the islands he had discovered on his way to India.

8:46

Now, inside

8:48

of this diary, this diary that he is very

8:50

carefully this is not an

8:52

objective document. This is not actually

8:54

meant to be an accurate document. This

8:56

is a piece of propaganda he has crafted

8:59

in order to guy his sovereigns to a specific

9:01

set of actions. Um And the

9:03

whole goal of this was to convince them that if

9:05

they were to give him a much larger

9:08

fleet and let him return with it, he

9:10

would expand the settlement he had left behind

9:12

and establish a network of three or four

9:14

towns united by a series of churches,

9:16

abbeys and fortresses which would act

9:19

as collection points for gold. Right,

9:21

So you set up these different sort of points

9:23

of what they would call civilization around

9:25

the Caribbean, which the natives, who

9:28

are now all servants of the crown, will have

9:30

to bring gold to as a form

9:32

of taxation. And that's how you're going to make all

9:34

this money that you need to conquer Jerusalem.

9:36

Now, Columbus, who was ever the self promoter,

9:39

didn't just write this thing out and hand

9:41

it to his sovereigns. He also published

9:43

a letter that was quickly translated

9:45

into like five or six different European languages,

9:48

which basically announced to europe that,

9:50

a, you know, the new world has been found.

9:52

Right, that's the way in which this is interpret Incredible

9:54

how much this parallels a text

9:57

startup, Like if you're familiar with Silicon Valley

9:59

lingo. He just dropped his white paper

10:01

and did a bunch of social media posts

10:03

like promoting the event. That's

10:05

what his diary is. And it's wild to

10:07

me that even in the very beginnings of

10:10

the concept of America is woven the

10:12

idea of like Columbus asserting

10:14

it's the greatest country on Earth, your majesty.

10:17

Yeah, why, well, because it benefits

10:19

me to believe that it is. Yeah, because

10:22

I have I have the right to a certain

10:24

amount of all of the trade that comes through this area.

10:26

Exactly convince you to like, here,

10:29

it's going to work out. Um

10:33

yeah, so um. One of the

10:35

things he brags about here um

10:37

obviously he talks about the potential for gold

10:39

and that he's found evidence of it, but he hadn't actually found

10:41

any minds, so he has to really

10:44

hype up the other major resource

10:46

that he did find in the islands, which

10:48

is the human beings who lived there. So number

10:50

one, he talks a lot about how he uses

10:52

the word comely a lot, or like the

10:55

equivalent of that. It's talking about how pretty they

10:57

are, right, Um, by the way,

11:00

people are pretty much Europeans are

11:02

pretty much immediately taking young women as

11:04

sex slaves. That happens from the jump

11:06

here. Um, yes, uh.

11:09

And there's a lot of writing Columbus does

11:11

about like finding himself in the presence of these women

11:13

and like how attractive they are and how

11:15

valuable they are as slaves for that reason.

11:18

Um. Now. He also interesting that in

11:20

all the fivving he did not like

11:23

Gaussian blur over that bit. That's actually

11:25

an asset. It just does goes to show

11:27

how much cultural maries change over

11:30

time. That's wild. Yeah, I didn't find

11:32

gold, but I found hot people and weaken in them.

11:34

And that's good. And we all agree, we're

11:37

all the head of government is fine, this

11:39

is fine. Yeah. Um, well, actually

11:41

the head of government is not super okay with it. Although

11:44

I think we will discuss a little later how much of

11:46

that was also a kind of propaganda. But

11:48

um. He notes that the indigenous

11:50

people have no real religion and would

11:53

be easy converts to Christianity. Uh.

11:55

He talked a lot about how friendly they were, saying

11:57

that the men he had left behind on Navidad were

11:59

quote without danger for their persons

12:01

if they know how to behave themselves. Now, Michael,

12:04

keep that line in mind, because that's going to be pretty

12:06

funny in a very short while. Yeah.

12:09

I'm almost never in danger as long

12:11

as I never miss step and do everything

12:13

correctly. I mean that

12:15

I skate through easily. Yeah.

12:18

So, once Columbus is back and he's doing his big

12:20

victory tour, word spreads quickly

12:22

that he has discovered a new route to the islands

12:24

off the coast of the Great CON's domain.

12:27

These unspoiled territories were not Christian,

12:30

which, in the eyes of the Pope and all of the Catholics,

12:32

means that the most important order of business

12:34

is to split them up among Christian powers.

12:36

Right, because they are not Christian yet or one

12:39

of the religions that we know as our enemy, it

12:41

just means they're automatically ours. Right.

12:43

Pope Alexander the sixth issued

12:46

a series of papal bulls ruling on how

12:48

to split the control between Spain and Portugal,

12:51

which are because they're the Catholic nations

12:53

that are actually powerful in this period, they're

12:55

the only countries that actually matter. Right, Italy

12:57

gets like on that list, but not really

13:00

Um because it's not a country, right, like some of the city states

13:02

are powerful. Is this still the era when

13:05

the pope is like Tony Soprano, like more

13:07

of a business interests than anything

13:09

else. And that is what the pope is doing,

13:11

is he is demarcating basically like

13:14

between these two Spain

13:16

and Portugal, and his eyes are kind of like franchises

13:19

of the Catholic Church, and he's he's

13:21

demarcating between them what chunks

13:23

of this new discovered land

13:25

mass they're going to get to to take

13:28

control over Um because

13:30

there's this big right because the Portuguese have the rights

13:32

to the coast of Africa, you know, which was pretty

13:34

new to them when they figured out how to sale to it.

13:37

So the end result of this, he sets up this line

13:39

of demarcation that extends from the north to

13:41

the south pole one hundred leagues

13:43

towards the west and south of the islands and

13:45

the Azors. Everything west of

13:48

that line belongs to Spain, Um

13:50

and given the terms that Clubus had set up with his sovereigns.

13:52

This is all partially Christopher Columbus's

13:55

property to write. So technically,

13:57

based on the agreement he's signed with the King and Queen,

14:00

what the Pope is ruled, he gets

14:02

he's like entitled like a quarter of all of

14:04

the traffic that comes from Spanish settlement

14:07

in Latin America. Wow,

14:10

that's a lot, right, potentially, that's

14:12

worth quite a bit of money. He has a startup

14:15

turned into PayPal just now. Yes,

14:17

he gets the percentage of every single transaction

14:20

exactly. He's tealing hard. So

14:23

on May, Ferdinand

14:25

and Isabella appointed Columbus the Captain

14:28

general for a second, much larger voyage

14:30

of Discovery and conquest. They issued

14:32

a document conferring rights and privileges

14:34

on him and officially awarded him the title

14:37

Viceroy and Admiral of the Ocean,

14:39

Sea and the Indies. He

14:42

was ordered to very rapidly put together

14:44

this new voyage and get it out to see. Chris

14:46

was now Dawn. Christopher Columbus Dawn

14:49

is a noble title, right like that? That means

14:51

it's kind of like having Vaughan in your name in Germany.

14:54

Rights that you're a member of the nobility, and

14:56

his children are now also, He's

14:58

now permanently in the nobility. And not only

15:00

does he have these rights, his children

15:03

inherit them from him. So his

15:05

all of his progeny are set to it

15:08

have part ownership in all new lands

15:10

he might quote discover and acquire

15:13

um. The King and Queen also give him the authority

15:15

to punish and chastise delinquents

15:17

and levy fees or taxes

15:19

on the natives of this Newfoundland. I

15:22

wonder when that thread finally

15:24

ran out legally speaking, you know, like,

15:26

how long did it persist that they cut

15:30

They cut while he's

15:32

alive. They're cutting back, They're cutting

15:34

his kids out in

15:36

parts. I mean, his kids do all right, don't

15:38

worry. Don't worry about the Columbus kids.

15:40

Not that you would, because they do. The

15:44

King and Queen did place one set of

15:46

limitations on him. I'm gonna quote from a write up

15:48

in American Heritage here and written instructions

15:50

to Columbus issued from Barcelona on May.

15:54

The King and Queen were explicit in their mandate

15:56

respecting treatment of the Indians. Now,

15:59

not only was us to make their conversion

16:01

to the Christian faith is first order of business.

16:03

But the monarchs also firmly decreed that

16:05

they were not to be molested or coerced in any

16:07

way. They instructed Columbus as he

16:09

prepared for his second voyage. And because

16:12

this can best be done after the arrival of the meet

16:14

in good time, the said Admiral shall

16:16

take measures that those who go therein and those

16:18

who have gone before here, shall treat the Indians

16:20

very well and affectionately, without causing them

16:22

any annoyance whatever. And at the same

16:25

time, the Admiral shall make some gifts to them

16:27

in a gracious manner, and hold them in great

16:29

honor. And if it happens that some persons to treat

16:31

the Indians badly in any way whatsoever,

16:33

the said Admiral, as Viceroy and governor for

16:35

their highnesses, shall meet out severe punishment.

16:38

So on paper, the King and Queen are like, hey,

16:41

you have to respect these people. They're so now

16:44

they're saying you have to respect them because there are

16:46

there there are servants of our crown

16:48

now right because they're their property.

16:51

But they are saying you have to respect them, you have

16:53

to treat them well, which would seem to say

16:55

I don't know about you, Michael. When I think about what

16:57

qualifies as treating someone well, I think

17:00

not enslaving them is high up on the list.

17:02

Part of freedom, that's right on the top.

17:04

I don't but America. Freedom has

17:06

never been a vaunted trope in America.

17:09

I just don't think it's you know, doesn't

17:12

have that ring to it. Uh, it's

17:14

just it's the second part of the rhyme. Like we all know

17:16

the forty two Columbus

17:21

three, the court defined atrocity.

17:25

Michael, how long how long were you waiting to drop that

17:27

line? I barely gathered

17:30

most of what you just said about what's

17:32

his name? Colombo? Yes, yes, yes,

17:34

this is this is about Colombo thing the

17:37

primary hero of Yugoslavian

17:39

anyway. That's that Actually is a fun story. Um.

17:43

So this is an area in which Carol

17:45

Delaney's account of Columbus's motivations

17:47

diverges significantly from more mainstream

17:49

interpretations of the historical act. Yes,

17:52

some might say accurate delay interpretations

17:55

delay me mark right? Anyway? Um,

17:58

the whitewashing a genocide, guy

18:01

E, I don't know. Yeah,

18:03

yeah, there you go. In her account of

18:05

events, Columbus remains the feverishly

18:08

devoted zealot Leezer focused on finding

18:10

the Great Con and bringing back wealth for Jerusalem.

18:13

But bear Grin makes the case that this doesn't

18:15

really line up with history.

18:17

Quote, a new realism

18:19

informed these instructions. There was no more

18:21

talk of trading with the Great Con, although the possibility

18:24

that he existed hovered over the voyage.

18:26

In other words, while he's like still writing about

18:29

Jerusalem right up to this point when they lay

18:31

out shipped for their next voyage, they're

18:33

not talking about that so much anymore.

18:35

This is all talked about as a business enterprise.

18:38

They were talking about how to get in

18:40

there and start making some fucking cash.

18:42

It's all the same reasons you ever make a

18:44

sequel to a franchise. It's fascinating

18:47

that it works in terms of film

18:49

or any unit of entertainment, but also

18:51

like, oh, this exploitation

18:54

went well, Let's do exploitation to

18:56

exploit harder. All of these contracts,

18:59

all of the legiti stickle planning is focused

19:01

on establishing storehouses and deposed

19:03

to enable trade. And it was all based

19:05

on the example of the Portuguese in Africa, right,

19:08

which you might notice had not retaken

19:10

the Holy Land. They just made a bunch of money,

19:12

like that was the goal at this point

19:14

whatever. And I do think one of the reasons

19:17

I do use Delaney, I think she's right

19:19

in that it is an undertold aspect

19:21

of his story that he was a religious fanatic who

19:23

wanted to bring about the apocalypse. Right. I

19:26

do think that is a worthwhile part of the man's

19:28

journey. But aren't so many

19:30

of them like you can

19:32

You can think about it, like You've got all these guys,

19:34

these like Christian mega preachers and

19:36

stuff who become multimillionaires who preach

19:38

about the apocalypse and the rapture and

19:41

stuff. And I think some some of them

19:43

clearly are just grifters, but I think a lot of

19:45

them believe aspects of it. It's just really

19:47

easy to temper your belief once you

19:49

get super fucking rich, right.

19:52

I think it's also such unique experience

19:54

that it's almost impossible to project yourself

19:56

truly into the mindset of someone who

19:59

in their life knew that they

20:01

were his of historical import

20:04

like good for good or bad. Like I can't imagine

20:06

what it's like to be Hitler or FDR, And

20:09

I don't think I truly ever will because you'll think

20:11

about what would I have done during this

20:14

crisis, and you're like, well, you

20:16

have to remember that you're a

20:18

completely different dude who is

20:20

wildly inaccessible

20:22

to you. Like they think in a different way. This

20:25

guy believes the world's gonna end any second.

20:27

Now, that's got to affect your behaviors.

20:29

Yes, I mean there's yeah, there's

20:32

a lot to say about that. Um So

20:34

the King and quin I do think one of the interesting historical

20:36

questions here there's a version, a theoretical

20:39

version in history of a guy who does this

20:41

and isn't a monster, just like once to figures

20:44

there's land to the west and wants to sail

20:46

to it. Um. It is a shame

20:48

that that guy wound up being such a piece of ship, and

20:50

also all of the people he brought with him were pieces of

20:52

ship and it ended in genocide. Um

20:55

but yeah, there there's there's a I

20:57

don't know sad uh

21:00

So the King and Queen, the wealthy nobles who

21:02

backed them certainly seem to have seen this

21:04

second venture is worthy of intense investment.

21:07

The equivalent of many millions of modern

21:09

dollars were poured into equipping a vast

21:11

fleet. Right he goes there with like a

21:14

couple hundred people, Like I think it's just like a hundred

21:16

people on three boats. It's a very The first

21:19

journey over is quite small. This

21:21

new journey will be seventeen ships

21:23

and something like twelve hundred people. Like

21:25

this is a so they are you know, they've

21:27

done the this is the This

21:30

is when like they get that that second

21:32

round of VC funding and suddenly they're

21:34

like fucking with a couple of billion dollars, right

21:36

whereas before the countryside,

21:39

Yeah, is this and is there any

21:41

pretense that they think they might find gold

21:44

there or is it? Yes? Yes, that

21:47

is the whole

21:49

goal at this point is still gold. Yes,

21:51

Yes, there's other spices. Obviously,

21:54

they're they're pretty sure they're gonna find some spices

21:56

because they know that spices come from

21:58

the East East India area and

22:00

that's where they think they're sailing to. Right, So

22:03

the people are in this period of time going

22:06

the other way around and getting spices,

22:08

so they assume they're going to get spices. So it's

22:11

not just gold, but gold is the primary

22:13

thing on their mind. Um, especially

22:16

because you said Columbus didn't really bring back

22:18

definitive proof of like vast amounts of gold.

22:21

There's proof, there's some though, and again they

22:23

know that Asia is rich and

22:25

they think they're in Asia, right, like you do. You

22:27

have to keep that in mind when it's like, why are they invest

22:30

doing so much of this? Nobody's got good

22:32

data on where they are. Um,

22:35

they just know how to get there. So

22:37

he's also sent with a representative

22:39

of the Spanish Crown, an official representative

22:42

of the of the government, and a noble

22:44

who could speak for the archdeacon of the Bishop

22:46

of the Catholic Church. So both of these,

22:48

both of and in this period, arguably

22:51

the Spanish crown and the

22:53

Pope are like the two big powers,

22:56

right, or at least two of them. There's

22:58

not a whole lot that that can compete,

23:01

right in terms of their like they're raw

23:04

sort of like political power in Europe in this

23:06

period. Um

23:08

so on Septem Columbus

23:11

sailed the ocean. I wrote blee

23:13

in here at Michael, I couldn't stop myself. I didn't

23:15

know what else to do. It was not nearly as good as what you did.

23:18

Um. Anyway of note is

23:20

the fact that he pauses on the island of

23:22

San Sebastian Gomera, where the local

23:25

ruler is a woman named Beatrice did

23:27

Parraza. Her husband had been killed

23:29

by the indigenous people of the island for being a prick,

23:31

and she's kind of like a character from an

23:33

old Greek play. She's alleged of

23:35

at least like luring a bunch of famous

23:38

and prominent knights to her home and then executing

23:40

them for petty crimes after like fucking them.

23:43

Um. Anyway, Columbus fucked her. Probably

23:45

they had a pre existing relationship. It's like

23:47

a thing. I don't want to get into it too much, but

23:50

I think it's funny. The

23:53

voyage itself was uneventful enough for our

23:55

purposes. In short order, Columbus found

23:57

himself back in the Caribbean, and due

23:59

to bad whether, he's forced to make the first landfall

24:02

of his this voyage on an

24:04

island dominated by a people called

24:06

the Caribs. Now, the Caribs

24:08

are either at war or locked into an outright

24:11

predatory relationship with the tino

24:14

Um. On his first voyage, Columbus had

24:16

seen tino with old war wounds and

24:18

been told that they were the result of carib slaving

24:20

raids. There are historians now who will make

24:22

the argument that actually the Tino and the Caribs

24:24

were in the process of making peace after

24:27

a long series of conflicts when Columbus

24:29

came in and disrupted that and like that that fucked

24:31

up things because the Tina we're like, oh, maybe we can use the

24:33

anyway. Whatever this is, it's

24:35

just too much shocked the system and the

24:37

peace talks fell apart or what have you. Yeah,

24:40

there's I mean, I I don't think we have great

24:42

context on that because all of these people died

24:44

or all murdered. Yeah. Um. On

24:47

his first voyage to this

24:50

area, Columbus had seen Tino with old wounds

24:52

and had been told they were the result of carib slaving

24:54

raids. Now the carib rated other

24:57

Arawak people's in the area. Um.

24:59

And Columbus seems to have believed, because

25:01

he's interacting with the people who are the enemies

25:03

of the Caribs, that they are cannibals. Um.

25:06

And in fact, in that letter he sent out

25:09

and he writes down friendly yeah,

25:13

um, well no, no, no, actually this is important.

25:15

He's once he hears

25:17

from the people he's friendly with that there are like dangerous

25:20

cannibals here, he writes back

25:22

and warns about his sovereigns about the

25:24

cannibal nature of the Caribs and uses it as

25:27

a selling point because since there is

25:29

a group of people in the islands who are clearly

25:31

dangerous and deranged, it

25:33

has it's okay to enslave them, right,

25:35

But how do you win with someone who wants to enslave

25:38

you, Because it's like, oh, these people

25:40

are so peaceable, we

25:42

could enslave them easily. Oh these people

25:44

are fighting back. That's crazy. We better enslave

25:47

them if the solution is enslavement. Surprise

25:50

surprise, in part because the sovereigns

25:53

don't react super well to his suggestion

25:55

that we turn the tyno or whatever into

25:58

serve because like, well, you say, these people are nice and

26:00

easy to christianize, Like, so we have to do that. We're

26:02

not going to enslave them. But Columbus

26:05

wants to make money from selling slaves because

26:07

he needs quick cash and that's the fastest,

26:10

and so once he finds the Caribs, he's like, well, fuck

26:12

the this is how I can start enslaving

26:15

some people. I don't have to enslave Caribs

26:17

specifically, but if I tell them there's dangerous

26:19

folks here who can't be christianized. I can

26:21

enslave whoever I want and send them back and make quick

26:23

cash. It's more of a war on crime.

26:26

If you will, yes, yes, yes again

26:28

via very very modern American

26:31

logic. Here Um carol to

26:33

Laney writes, and this is amazing

26:36

as evidence that he had been to the Indies. He wrote

26:38

that he had brought a few indios the first time

26:40

in print, that the name is given to the native people's

26:42

and promise the riches that he will be able to provide in

26:44

the future gold spices, cotton, mastic,

26:47

allowood, rhubarb, cinnamon, and slaves

26:49

as many as they should order. Who will be from the

26:51

idolatrs, that is, from the man eating

26:54

Caribs. So he's

26:56

marking down these people. That's

26:58

part of like the been a fit of hearing

27:00

that they're cannibals. Is now he can add them,

27:03

with religious justification to his

27:05

list of resources in the area. Because

27:09

the Tino I can slave these dangerous

27:11

man eaters, you know, that's what you want as a slave

27:14

working alongside you, I think is someone

27:16

trained for war who could eat you? And

27:18

would he here living

27:22

in my home with me? Um? So

27:24

we're gonna talk a lot more about this. Despite

27:27

hearing a great deal about the Caribs on their

27:30

first voyage, Columbus didn't really have

27:32

contact with them in that first trip. Now

27:34

that changes almost as soon as they arrived

27:36

back in the Caribbean. And I'm gonna quote again

27:38

from American heritage here, Columbus

27:41

and his company had a brief skirmish with these Cannibals

27:43

on the island of Santa Cruz St. Croix and

27:45

one of the Virgin Islands. A Spaniard

27:48

was killed by an arrow and a few of the natives were

27:50

taken a prisoner. The exact number is difficult

27:52

to establish from the three rather confusing eyewitness

27:55

accounts we have of this encounter, but it couldn't

27:57

have been more than a dozen or show, including three or

27:59

four male adults and some women and children.

28:01

Now, again, the way that Columbus frames this is

28:04

that they tried to meet peacefully, and the way

28:06

Delaney interprets it is they tried to have a peaceful

28:08

meeting and these violent Caribs attack

28:10

them. Now we know that Columbus

28:12

is just abducting people, like straight

28:15

up abducting people all over the Caribbean.

28:17

I think it's entirely possible. He tried to steal

28:19

some folks, and they shot again, and

28:22

they shot a guy justifiably.

28:25

Um again. If you're looking for a group of people

28:28

to travel back in time while wearing a mask

28:30

so you don't get them sick and give a k forty

28:33

sevens to the Caribs in this period

28:35

should be high up on your list. Right, they're

28:39

already dealing with krakens and ship They

28:41

don't need to speak their language to teach them

28:44

how to kill Europeans with a collash. It's

28:46

very easy. So

28:49

after this skirmish, Columbus had his soldiers

28:51

proceed in force to a Carib village.

28:54

Europeans who were with him at the time wrote

28:56

that these people practiced the quote a cursed

28:58

vice of sodomy, which goes right

29:00

up there with cannibalism. On reasons why they

29:02

can't be Christianized, they decided

29:04

that the Caribs had introduced sodomy

29:07

to the other people. Basically, they noticed

29:09

people doing a lot of fucking that repressed

29:12

Catholics don't do, and they're like, this must

29:14

be the evil Caribs teaching them how to fun.

29:16

And they're always like, uh, this must

29:19

be the first time anyone ever thought of that, because

29:21

I can't even conceive of something

29:23

so discussing. We must be the

29:25

save and destroy these dangerous Caribs

29:28

to stop this, like

29:32

we approached the very heart of but stuff,

29:34

the origin itself. Yeah,

29:38

yes, the Cribs are patient zero

29:40

for butt stuff. I would wear that crowd.

29:45

Yeah, all all respect to the Caribs. Um.

29:48

They also reported that the Caribs engaged in

29:50

what was either castration or is

29:52

perhaps more likely, some form of circumcision.

29:55

They seem to have been doing something surgical

29:58

to the genitals of some of their young people. Now,

30:00

Carol Delaney insists that it was castration

30:03

because that is the word that the Spanish doctor

30:05

with the fleet used, and clearly he must

30:07

know what he's talking about, even though this is

30:10

the fourteen nineties and I think it's

30:12

fair to say doctors are not doctors

30:14

in this period. Yeah, more than

30:17

so. Maybe he maybe they were castrating

30:19

boys. For certain, the cultures have done that right

30:22

to some to some young people at points

30:24

in time. This may be an example of

30:26

again because of the genocide, we don't of great and maybe

30:28

an example of perhaps this is a thing where

30:31

they had different attitudes towards gender

30:33

and like some people who identified some way

30:35

had a procedure that we don't really know what's

30:38

going on with this, but yeah, other

30:40

scholars are ready to note that back then.

30:42

Yeah, like again Carol Delaney

30:45

takes it is written that like they are abusing

30:47

children and that that's part because she's making the

30:49

case that these this is like these are dangerous indigenous

30:52

people who have vile and evil traditions

30:54

that has and then so then

30:57

enslavem Okay, well

30:59

that's literally the argument she's about to make. Um,

31:02

but I think it is important to other scholars are like,

31:04

we don't the doctor was not a great

31:06

doctor, We don't have great content. We have no idea

31:08

what was going on. And a lot of cultures,

31:11

including Jewish people, right, do

31:14

have have like surgeries that they

31:16

do on you know, uh, circumcision

31:18

and stuff. We don't know what

31:21

was going We don't know what these people were doing,

31:23

but we do not have enough data to say that

31:25

they were abusing anybody, right, Um,

31:28

that's just racism. Uh

31:30

So anyway, um, yeah,

31:33

the Caribs that they encountered. Yeah, anyway,

31:35

there's a number of things that could have been happening either

31:38

way, Columbus captured a bunch of these people,

31:40

uh and enslaves them and sends them to Spain.

31:42

He burns all of their canoes to stop

31:44

them from traveling to other islands

31:47

and telling them about sodomy. And

31:49

here's here's how Carol Delaney justifies

31:52

this. From among the girls, mutilated,

31:54

boys, and adults that the Caribs had enslaved, Columbus

31:57

rescued as many as he could, took them aboard the

31:59

already crowded and returned them

32:01

to their homes. In addition, Columbus

32:03

wrote that the men found an orphaned year old

32:05

baby whom he entrusted to a woman

32:07

who came from Castile, and said that once

32:09

the child learns the language, he would send him to

32:12

Spain. Columbus did not specify whether

32:14

the woman was Spanish or Indian, though it is possible

32:16

that she was Columbus's domestic servant. Um

32:19

Columbus said, I am vengeance, swear

32:22

to me, and the scum fled into

32:24

the night, never to return. Oh,

32:28

Michael, very very pro Columbus

32:30

bent here. I can see. Yeah, yeah, it's

32:33

it's good. So we'll continue talking

32:35

about the Caribs in a bit. But After this encounter,

32:37

Columbus fleet sails on and he

32:39

makes it to Navadad, where they found the settlement

32:42

that had he had left there like a few

32:44

months before, raised to the ground.

32:47

Everyone there was dead. They're like anymore.

32:52

They all get their asses killed. So

32:54

when they find the corpses of their former shipmates,

32:57

all of the eyes have been removed, which is pretty

32:59

rad um. So eventually

33:01

he gets into contact with the indigenous folks,

33:04

was particularly the Casique that he had befriended

33:06

before, and he learns the whole story. And here's

33:08

how Delaney describes it. The men

33:11

had begun to fight among themselves, had formed into

33:13

groups and gone on rating parties to the neighboring

33:15

area belonging to the Casque Canabo. They

33:17

stole goods, raped the women, kidnapped

33:20

them, and took them back to Novadad as concubines.

33:22

Not surprisingly, Cannabo retaliated by

33:24

attacking the garrison, killing all the men

33:26

and burning their village. Columbus decided

33:29

to pay a visit to Guacan to guacan

33:31

Ar Guacanagari and

33:33

learn his side of the story. Dressed in full regalia,

33:36

he and one hundred men, accompanied by pipes and

33:38

drums marched to Guacanagari's village,

33:40

about ten miles inland. Guacanagari

33:43

confirmed Diego's report. He felt responsible

33:45

to Columbus and was chagrined that he had not been able

33:47

to keep his promise to protect the European

33:49

men. He said that when he tried to help

33:52

them, he was struck by a large stone and injured.

33:54

Dr Chanka could see no evidence of a wound, but

33:56

Columbus decided not to press the issue and invited

33:58

Guacanagari on board a dinner. There

34:01

for the very first time the Indian chief saw

34:03

a horse. Over dinner, Columbus learned

34:05

that the men had been hoarding gold that they had either founder

34:07

stolen and had not reported it for the crown.

34:09

They had also been taking women and even girls as concubines.

34:13

So first off,

34:15

what's happened here is that the many leaves behind start

34:18

taking sex slaves, many of which your children,

34:20

and abusing them and they get murdered for it.

34:22

And the guy who's Columbus's friend tries to intervene,

34:25

and they like club him on the head with a rock, and

34:27

I do love that. Like, Yeah, anyway,

34:29

there's a lot that's funny about that bit so much

34:31

so I'm paying not the least of which is they're

34:34

taking underage sex slaves and then saying

34:36

it's okay for us to enslave you because you do funked

34:38

up ship like you take under age sex slaves. Yeah,

34:41

exactly, like, yeah, you're abusing abide

34:43

that, um, which we would have yelled

34:45

at these guys if we'd caught them doing it,

34:48

I promise you, right. You know who

34:50

else yells at people who take underage

34:52

sex slaves? Michael, I do,

34:55

But I think we should share that information

34:57

with the audience that they can bonsors of

35:00

this podcast. Oh yeah, yeah,

35:02

the sponsors of this podcast. Um,

35:06

they hate sex slavery and

35:10

we're back, ah Michael,

35:14

Yeah, Mikhail, as you're

35:16

known in Russia, where you have a

35:18

huge fan base, I assume

35:21

I'll make the same assumption from now on. Thanks.

35:24

Uh yeah. Um. So

35:27

this gets to one of my favorite things about

35:29

Delaney's book that described because that is a for

35:31

a woman who's whitewashing Columbus, pretty horrible

35:34

description of these guys at Novedad right, She

35:36

very to her credit, describes them as a bunch

35:38

of guys who needed to get killed, you know, Um,

35:41

that's my favorite thing about her book. She does not

35:43

whitewash the brutality of the Spanish

35:46

occupiers. She portrays them

35:48

as All of the men Columbus takes with

35:50

him are constantly depicted as rapists

35:52

in slavers and vicious gold christ

35:55

psychopaths, which they were, But

35:57

Columbus is shown as this this

36:01

decent, hard working band. He was like constantly

36:03

putting out fire. It's like, yeah, it's like if John

36:06

Luke Piccard, if everyone else on the enterprise,

36:08

we're just asshole.

36:11

Yeah. And he's just trying to stop

36:13

it in

36:15

hand. Yeah,

36:19

he's he's constantly trying to maintain noble

36:21

and decent relationships with the locals despite

36:23

all of the viciouses of the men he puts. And that's who

36:26

makes everything go wrong, is these bad guys

36:28

who he puts in charge and brought with

36:31

him to the New World. But it's not his fault

36:33

that they're all bad people. Um. It

36:36

is a very funny balance to try to

36:38

strike, and she does it badly. Here's

36:40

one example of her exculpaid in Columbus

36:43

in this passage about the fact

36:45

that every town and forth he set up rebels

36:47

from his control and turns into bands of arms

36:49

spaniards, murdering and raping children, um

36:52

and taking gold for themselves. Quote. Columbus

36:55

was a sailor and a navigator. He was not cut

36:57

out for the job of administrator even less

36:59

his tractor and he had no training

37:01

for this role. But now he was confronted

37:03

with the task of organizing his motley group

37:05

of settlers in Decadres for work

37:08

by himself, because he begged for that

37:10

position, because for that job it's

37:14

very fun, you know. I think we can all

37:16

talk about this now, Michael, having

37:18

all worked at Cracked together, we were in this position

37:20

of a bunch of people who wanted to be creative folks

37:23

making videos and writing articles, being

37:25

put into management positions and like dealing

37:28

with budgets and dealing with like corporate stuff

37:30

that we were not super well suited for. And

37:32

there were some complications as a result

37:35

of that. But one of the complications was

37:37

not that all of our subordinates

37:41

formed murder gangs and stole gold from

37:43

people to genocide. I

37:45

didn't have eyes on Brockway and Sean Baby

37:47

at all times because they were, you know, living

37:50

out there, So I can't completely

37:52

vouch for that. Yeah, but by and large we got

37:54

by company

37:57

did demand that we committed genocide, and

37:59

I did. We should probably say that, Yeah,

38:01

we stepped away. You know, we're heroes

38:03

France. Why we left. That's what we

38:05

all left of our own volition. They said, next

38:08

obvious step is genesis, genesis

38:10

slavery, and we were like, I can't do it. Not

38:13

funny, frankly, not not a

38:15

moral thing, just not funny. Very

38:17

few genocides were funny. Um.

38:25

Um. It is true. She's

38:27

not wrong that Chris was bad as an administrator.

38:30

He is just objectively bad at that job. Um.

38:33

And he also like, it's just

38:35

very funny to like to completely

38:38

divorce him from a morality of what's happening.

38:41

Um, mainly because he writes letters back

38:43

talking about how he didn't want things to be so

38:45

bad as they were, which is like, yeah,

38:48

you're you're you're working. That's pretty sweaty,

38:51

Carol, pretty sweat Have you ever played Grand

38:53

Theft Auto four? Yes, of

38:55

course, where you're the guy who

38:58

constantly that's right, the

39:00

Nico will constantly scream things like because

39:02

he was the he was the g T a protagonist

39:04

who was sad about murder, so he

39:06

would scream things like why why must

39:09

I do this? And oh this city?

39:11

What has it made me do? And You're

39:13

like, I just gunned down forty people

39:17

like you know. That's why

39:19

when we finally got Trevor, I was like,

39:21

Oh, this is a breath of fresh air action.

39:23

Smash your work. You're supposed to be

39:26

in this game. The Columbus is still

39:28

in a nace. Columbus, well, Columbus

39:30

is a Trevor, but he's acting like a Nico.

39:32

That's right, Yeah, he's he's That's that's

39:35

definitely the case. Um. So

39:37

he has a damnable time actually finding

39:39

and setting up gold mines, and that's all

39:41

like part of why all of the administrative

39:43

stuff fails is he's constantly leaving

39:46

the task of setting up working towns

39:49

and trading posts to his incompetent

39:52

subordinates because all he cares about is finding

39:54

gold mines, because that's what's

39:56

going to make his like personal wealth.

39:59

Bigger gold mines are

40:01

still in short supply, he's having trouble finding them.

40:03

So early on in this voyage,

40:05

when there's still not a clear idea of where

40:07

to start mining gold, he gets back

40:09

into he gets really into the business of enslaving

40:12

people in large numbers, right, We're

40:14

talking hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people

40:16

at a time that he starts sending back in ships.

40:19

Here's how Delaney tries to defend his enslaving

40:21

of people, because again they start

40:23

like grabbing ship to send back to Spain.

40:26

With the ships, Columbus sent back cinnamon, pepper,

40:28

cotton, parrots, and sandalwood, and some of the gold

40:31

samples they had collected in order to show that

40:33

the enterprise would be profitable. In addition

40:35

to the profitable materials gathered from

40:37

nature, Columbus also sent human cargo

40:39

twenty six Indians from the man eating Caribs.

40:42

In doing this, he was following papal policy

40:44

at the time, which pervented enslavement of those

40:47

that captured in a just war, those

40:49

who resisted Christianization, and those who win

40:51

against the law of nature. The Caribs appeared

40:53

to fit all three definitions. Not only have

40:55

they resisted and fought against the Christians, they contravene

40:57

the law of nature by acts of sodomy and can ballism.

41:00

And this is how Delaney tries

41:03

to minimalize his enslaving people every

41:05

time, and it is horseship, as our other

41:07

sources will make clear completely.

41:10

Well, I was just saying that that was that

41:12

was not an old timey quote either, if I'm

41:15

gathering for the contents, right, So Delaney

41:17

is saying, and you know they

41:20

do, but stuff which is objectively

41:22

as contravenes the natural order. Well,

41:24

she's just saying what he's doing. Because we had

41:26

this discussion at the start of like judging people

41:29

by the standards of their times and then trying to judge

41:31

people from objective standards as to like how they measure

41:33

up. And the argument that I'm

41:35

making, and that most reasonable people make, is that

41:37

Columbus was a really bad guy, even

41:40

considering the morals of the times. She is

41:42

trying to say, No, he was perfectly normal. The

41:44

enslaving of the Cribs because they were an enemy in

41:46

a war was perfectly standard, and he was

41:48

he was in line with the horrible nous of the

41:50

era, and that that is a lie.

41:52

Not that that would make it okay, but that's also wrong.

41:55

On February two four, two

41:57

and a half months after the deadly fight with the Caribs

41:59

and his rate on their village, Columbus sends

42:02

back several boats with a massive cargo

42:04

of slaves in twelve ships from

42:06

Isabella, which is this new heat because Novadad's

42:08

burnt down, he forms a new colony called Valentine's

42:11

Days coming up. He's got to get something, You got

42:14

to get something down. So these there

42:16

are hundreds of people in this this

42:18

cargo of ships that he sends back, all

42:20

of whom have been captured against their will, and all

42:22

of whom are to be sold in the slave market at

42:25

Seville. Now Columbus sends

42:27

the captain on that voyage with a letter to the King

42:29

and Queen, who had specifically ordered him not to

42:31

enslave the natives. He explained that because

42:34

there is no language by means of which this people

42:36

can understand our holy faith, thus are

42:38

being sent with these ships the cannibals, men and women,

42:40

and boys and girls, which their highnesses may order

42:43

placed in the possession of persons from whom

42:45

they can best learn the language. He suggested

42:47

that the profit from the souls of the said cannibals

42:49

would suggest the consideration that many

42:52

more from here would be better, and their highnesses would

42:54

lie served in this manner, that in view of the need

42:56

for cattle and beasts, and burden for sustaining

42:58

the people who are here. So, in other words, what he's

43:00

saying is that we need more

43:03

European food because the Europeans don't

43:05

like eating indigenous food. So I want

43:07

you to sell these slaves who were totally

43:09

cannibals and use the profits

43:11

in order to buy cattle and

43:14

send them over here so that we can get a European

43:16

settlement going here. Now obviously,

43:18

and they're like, we wanted

43:22

gold. This is

43:24

so far from what we discussed, is

43:26

not at all and we had talked about. Um.

43:28

Now, I'm gonna quote again from American heritage

43:31

here. There is no record of the number of slaves

43:33

sent with Torres, but from all indications, they

43:35

were considerably more than the handful

43:37

of Caribs taken in the skirmage on Santa

43:39

Croix, which is again what Delaney says,

43:41

that he just sends over a couple of dozen Caribs.

43:44

Columbus is only known encounter with these fierce

43:47

natives on his second voyage. Most of Torres's

43:49

wrecked cargo must have been made up of the inoffensive

43:51

inhabitants of Espaniola, whose meekness

43:54

so highly praised it first by Columbus was

43:56

being strained to the breaking point by the strong armed

43:58

tactics of the European vaders, including

44:01

Columbus's own periodic kidnappings of

44:03

groups of natives to learn the secrets of the

44:05

land. As he wrote. It is also worth noting

44:07

that in his letters to the King and Queen, Columbus explicitly

44:10

compared the indigenous people of the Indies

44:12

to the black slaves Portuguese traders

44:14

were taking, may or highnesses judge

44:16

whether they ought to be captured. For I believe

44:18

we could take many of the males every year, and

44:20

an infinite number of women. May

44:22

you also believe that one of them would be worth more

44:24

than three black slaves from Guinea, and strength

44:27

and ingenuity as you will gather from those

44:29

I am shipping out now. So

44:31

Delanney is like he just the only ones he sends

44:34

over for slaves are a couple of dozen people, and they're all Caribs.

44:36

He had fought with him that was justified at the time. No,

44:38

he is lying. He has enslaved a lot more

44:40

than that of the people he was specifically told

44:43

not to enslave by the King and Queen,

44:45

and he is sending them back and lying about

44:47

who they are in order to make a profit,

44:50

and he's eyeing future slaves.

44:52

Oh really, how many? Infinity

44:54

and infinite number? And also the

44:57

fact that he notes that you can enslave women an infinite

44:59

number. It's because he and other

45:01

Europeans want to rape them, right,

45:04

Like, that's why that's big I was

45:06

gonna say. His complicated startup

45:09

sales pitch has devolved into an Internet

45:11

pop up ad that just says like, meet

45:13

infinite women, girl,

45:18

barely legal whatever, any are you a

45:20

lonely noble in search of infinite

45:22

women? Jesus. Eleven

45:30

weeks after sending off Torres and that first load

45:32

of slaves to Seville, Columbus leaves his new colony

45:34

in the hands of his younger brother Diego. He

45:36

made a noble named Pedro Marguerite, commander

45:39

of the Spanish military forces on the island

45:41

while he was gone. Both of these guys are

45:43

shipped at the job, and when he gets back he

45:45

does find a couple of gold mines. Finally, and

45:47

when he gets back, though, he's found that the whole

45:50

situation on this island he's trying to colonize

45:52

has degenerated. So, first off,

45:54

marguerite commander of the army, leaves

45:56

his post and goes back to Spain. He's like, funk it. I

45:58

don't like it here. This is the this isn't a good job.

46:01

So he leaves all of his soldiers leaderless,

46:03

and they just again start raiding villages,

46:06

shooting people to take what they want, and raping

46:08

women at random. Ferdinand Columbus,

46:10

who's Christopher's legitimate son, describes

46:13

them as quote committing a thousand excesses,

46:15

for which they were mortally hated by the Indians.

46:18

Las Casas describes that quote each

46:20

one went where he willed among the Indians, stealing

46:22

their property and wives, inflicting so many

46:25

injuries upon them that the Indians resolved

46:27

to avenge themselves on any they found alone

46:29

or in small groups. So

46:32

that's pretty bad. And again Columbus

46:35

is not ordering them to go on these

46:37

raping and murdering sprees. He's just setting

46:39

up a bunch of armed, unhinged men

46:41

on the island and then abandoning them to look for

46:44

gold and then being like, oh my god, a bad

46:46

thing happened. How could I have known? Also,

46:49

the weird implication is, of course that

46:51

if he's stuck around it would it would

46:53

have stayed good. But you never get proof

46:55

of that because he never sticks around. I will argue

46:58

you get proof of the opposite to see

47:00

what happens when he does stick and

47:03

guess what, it's actually worse than gags.

47:07

A local casique Guattanagana,

47:09

finally organizes a cohesive event

47:12

defense, and this is while Columbus is still away. He

47:14

organizes again. These soldiers are just running rough

47:16

shot over the island, murdering and raping

47:19

people, so gut Iguana

47:21

organizes a cohesive defense to the raiding

47:24

and the raping. He and his men ambushed

47:26

ten Spanish soldiers and killed them. They

47:28

killed the ship out of them, and then once those

47:30

guys are dead, they find a shelter that the

47:32

Spanish we're living in where forties six

47:34

soldiers are like recuperating, right because

47:36

they're all sick, they can't defend themselves, so

47:39

he burns the fucking shack down while

47:41

they're inside it, which cool

47:43

and good in my opinion. Um funk

47:45

those guys. So Columbus gets

47:47

back to the land, though, and he's found out that like a funkload

47:50

of soldiers have been murdered by the locals.

47:52

I would argue justifiably, but Columbus

47:54

is like, no, this is horrible. And

47:57

into this situation steps another casique,

47:59

guacana Ari, who we've talked about before. This

48:01

is the guy who Christopher is in love with on his first

48:03

voyage. And I want to quote now from a

48:05

book called The Other Slavery by Andres

48:08

Ricindez. Hearing

48:10

that Columbus had returned after a long absence, Guacanagari

48:13

immediately visited to declare his innocence

48:15

in the massacre. He had done nothing to aid

48:17

or encourage the Indians who would slaughter the Spanish,

48:20

and to demonstrate his long standing goodwill, recalled

48:22

the goodwill and hospitality he had always shown

48:24

the Christians. He believed that his generosity

48:27

towards these visitors from Afar had provoked the hatred

48:29

of the other casiques, especially the notorious

48:31

Bahecio, who had killed one of Guacanagari's

48:34

wives, and the thieving Kennabo who had stolen

48:36

another. Now he appealed to the Admiral to

48:38

restore his wives and obtain revenge. As

48:41

Guacanagari narrated this tragic tale,

48:43

he wept each time he recalled the men

48:45

who had been killed at Le Navedad as if they were

48:47

his own sons. Guacanagari's

48:49

tears won over Columbus, restoring the bond

48:51

between the Admiral and the Cacique. As he considered

48:54

the situation, Columbus realized that the emotional

48:56

Caseique had provided valuable intelligence

48:58

about conflicts among the Indians, conflicts

49:01

that Columbus could exploit to punish enemies

49:03

of them, both as an alliance with Guacanagari

49:05

would enable him to settle all scores. Recovering

49:07

from his breakdown, Columbus marched forth from

49:09

Isabella and warlike array, together with his

49:11

comrade Guacanagari, who was most eager

49:14

to rout his enemies. Ferdinand wrote,

49:17

now we know distressingly

49:20

little about the pre contact cultures of the

49:22

Tyno, of of the different Arawak people of the

49:24

carib But one thing we know for certain

49:26

is that they did not have military technology

49:29

that it could seriously threaten Spanish dominance

49:31

in the field. They're able to carry out some ambushes

49:34

that are successful when they are not organized,

49:36

but once Columbus puts together an

49:38

actual like battle line and sends

49:40

it out to fight these people in an organized way,

49:43

it is not there's no The

49:46

end result is not in doubt. These people

49:48

have guns and cannons. They're dealing

49:50

with folks who have not even not particularly

49:53

good bows and arrows, right, Ferdinand,

49:56

who is and even worse than this, honestly,

49:58

like potentially the most nificant

50:00

weapons system they have are dogs and

50:03

or betrayal, like the element of see

50:06

they needed to read wedding.

50:08

These motherfucker's is like you get Columbus

50:11

in a room for the peace trade negotiations,

50:14

stab him in his belly twenty times as

50:16

you always have. You've got this one local leader

50:18

who's like, well, these guys will help me deal with my

50:21

local opponents, right, and I'll worry

50:23

about the fallout later. Exactly. That's

50:25

the beauty rolls

50:27

around. The girl is simply dieure

50:32

um so yeah um.

50:34

Ferdinand, who's there with his father, reports

50:37

that in one battle quote, two squadrons

50:39

of infantry assaulted the multitude of Indians,

50:41

putting them to route with crossbow shots and guns,

50:44

and before they could rally, they attacked with horses

50:46

and dogs. By these means, those cowards

50:48

fled in every direction, and the destruction was so great,

50:51

and that in brief time the victory was complete

50:53

Not only did his Majesty's hand

50:55

guide him Columbus and achieving the victory, but

50:57

he also imposed such a severe shortage of food

51:00

and such varied and grave infirmities that

51:02

the Indians were reduced to a third of the number

51:04

they had been before. So it is clear that from

51:06

his divine guidance such a marvelous victory

51:08

ensued. When Frindan is writing about is

51:11

that in this first like year or so that he's

51:13

back in the islands, two thirds of

51:15

these people are the first couple of years, two thirds

51:17

of these people die out right, They start

51:19

starving, they start getting sick, and then they

51:22

start getting massacred and and enslaved

51:24

and sent away in battles. Now, there's

51:26

a number of things that caused this decline in population.

51:28

We'll be talking about this quite a bit um,

51:32

but one of the things is that again he's also he's

51:34

they're shipping going on back and forth, and

51:36

some of it's taking livestock to the islands

51:38

that the Europeans can eat in the matter they're accustomed

51:40

to, which is what brings a lot of the diseases

51:43

that that become increasingly a problem

51:45

here. Now, Delaney again frames

51:48

all of this is just tragedy stemming from the fact

51:50

that Columbus, who is a brilliant explorer and a man

51:52

of deep faith, just isn't a very good leader.

51:55

And again he is not a good leader. But

51:58

if he was an evil genius, he could hardly

52:00

have planned the situation better. And I'm gonna

52:03

quote from that American heritage right up again. This

52:05

was all that Columbus needed to establish a steady

52:08

supply of slaves. He no longer would have to maintain

52:10

the fiction that they were cannibals, despite

52:12

the fact, even acknowledged by Ferdinand, that the

52:14

slain Spaniards had justly earned their

52:16

mortal hatred. Columbus led an expedition

52:19

against the defenseless Indians that was incredibly

52:21

savage and its slaughter of the naked islanders

52:23

and destruction of their villages. The heavily

52:26

armed Europeans were accompanied by ferocious

52:28

greyhounds, each of which Las Casas wrote,

52:30

in an hour could tear one hundred Indians

52:32

to pieces. Because all the people of the island

52:35

had the custom of going nude from head to foot, many

52:37

people were taken alive, and five hundred were

52:39

sent to slaves to be sold in Castile. Now,

52:42

this is the first massive load of slaves

52:44

that Columbus sends across the Atlantic, and

52:46

in some ways this is the inauguration

52:49

of the Atlantic slave trade. It starts off going

52:51

from the Indies across the Europe, as opposed to

52:53

going from Africa um to to

52:56

the America's um. Now.

52:59

Ms. Shel de Cuneo, who's an Italian

53:01

adventurer who goes on Columbus to the second

53:04

edition expedition. He returns

53:06

with Torres on that boat um and

53:08

in his own account he notes that some six

53:11

hundred captives had actually been gathered at Isabella.

53:14

The five d were the most salable, and

53:16

the rest were given out as gifts to colonists.

53:19

By the time tours as slave ships reached Spain,

53:21

two hundred of the five hundred captives on board

53:23

had died um and their corpses

53:25

were thrown into the ocean. All of the others died

53:27

pretty soon after the arrival. Now,

53:30

the fact that the pretense of friendly coexistence

53:32

had been well and truly shattered, right, it's like,

53:34

yeah, oh and these guys, I'll eat people.

53:36

Right. It's hard to feel

53:39

that as mattering as you're shoveling hundreds

53:41

of corpses into the sea. It's

53:44

like, I don't even care if they did this. Is

53:46

this is now officially a system

53:48

of business. Yeah, and again the just

53:51

to clarify some of the time that you have

53:53

that first ship he sends back, which Delaney

53:55

says is just twenty six guys. We actually have

53:57

no idea how many people were on it, and probably

54:00

includes Taino people that he had just enslaved

54:02

because he wanted to enslave them. And then there's

54:05

that massacre of Spanish soldiers. Columbus

54:07

does a war, kills a bunch of people and enslaves

54:09

a group of five hundred. He sends them back. Half

54:12

of them die and all of them are dead pretty

54:14

soon after they arrive in Spain. Like none of them

54:16

last very long. Imagine

54:18

that someone swooped down again.

54:21

I hate to keep us in this metaphor, but in the UFO

54:23

and abducted you, raped you, brought

54:26

you to the alien planet, taught you the alien

54:28

language, and they're and you're like, why did

54:30

you do this? And they're like, so we could give you

54:32

our religion and our our

54:34

religion says you're blessed

54:36

because you're meat. You're going to inherit the earth

54:39

thing like, so you you

54:41

bring me here to tell me how lucky I am and how

54:43

great this is going for me. Is the

54:45

wildest aspect of this all. It's the

54:47

cognitive dissonances off the charts.

54:50

Yes. Now, by this point

54:52

in his explorations, Columbus had discovered

54:54

several gold mines and areas in which gold could

54:57

be pannedful in quantity. His sovereigns,

54:59

repeat lee told him like, as he's sending

55:01

people over there, sending letters back and being like stop

55:04

stop enslaving people, like we told

55:06

you not to do this. It looks like you're just enslaving

55:09

random locals, like, don't

55:11

do that. Tax them instead. Um.

55:14

So that's what he starts to do. Um.

55:17

He because his sovereigns

55:19

are like yelling at him, um, and

55:21

because he wants money, he decides to institute

55:24

at tax on all of the people who live in the islands,

55:26

right because their servants of the crowd now and so they

55:28

should have to pay their taxes. And the way he sets

55:30

up the taxes, you know those hawks bells

55:33

he was getting out, it gifts early on. Instead,

55:35

he sets so that every three months um

55:38

an individual has to pay enough tribute in gold

55:40

to fill a hollow. Hawks bell right,

55:43

that's you each, oh me gold. And this is the because

55:45

I've been giving these out is you thought these were gifts.

55:48

This is an example of how much you owe us and fucking

55:50

taxes. Um So, the

55:52

hawkson a gift into

55:55

awesome. It's pretty fucked up. It's like

55:57

sending someone a roomba for their birth

56:00

day and they open it up and they're like, this room but

56:02

exclusively sucks money out of your wallet,

56:04

yeah, and delivers it to me. Um

56:07

So. To ensure that everyone pays their taxes,

56:10

he Columbus orders all of the people on

56:12

the islands to wear a metal disc around

56:14

their neck that shows whether or not they'd paid

56:17

their taxes recently. Failure to

56:19

pay could be punished brutally. Those who

56:21

rebelled, as many did, or tried to hide

56:23

and avoid the tax, were hunted down and sold

56:25

into slavery, which is again basically a death

56:27

sentence. Every indigenous person older

56:30

than fourteen was subject to the tax, which

56:32

effectively turned what had been an island of free

56:34

people into an island of slaves.

56:36

Among the Spaniards, it was not universally

56:38

agreed that this was just One account

56:41

of horror came from a man named Washington Irving,

56:43

who wrote, quote, in this way was

56:45

the yoke of servitude fixed upon the island,

56:47

and it's thralled them effectively ensured.

56:50

Deep despair now fell on the natives when they

56:52

found a perpetual task inflicted upon

56:54

them. Weaken, indolent by nature, unused

56:56

to labor of any kind, and brought up in the untapped

56:59

idleness of their soft climate in their fruitful

57:01

groves, death itself seemed preferable

57:04

to a life of toil and anxiety. They

57:06

saw no end to this harassing evil which

57:08

had so suddenly fallen upon them, no prospect

57:10

of a return to that roving independence and ample

57:12

leisures. So dear to the wild inhabitants

57:14

of the forest. The pleasant life of the island

57:17

was in an end. They were now obliged to grope

57:19

day by day, with bending body and anxious

57:21

eye, along the borders of their rivers, sifting

57:24

the sands for the grains of gold, which every day

57:26

grew more scanty, or to labor in the

57:28

fields beneath the fervor of a tropical sun

57:30

to raise food for their taskmasters, or to produce

57:33

the vegetable tribute imposed upon them. They

57:35

sunk to sleep, weary and exhausted at night,

57:37

with the certainty that the next day was to be a repetition

57:39

of the same toil and suffering. So

57:42

that's a nice description of what it means to bring

57:44

capitalism to an island of people who don't know

57:46

it, right, Like, that's basically what's happening

57:48

here. These people, you know, they had rulers,

57:50

Slavery existed, like, there was nasty things,

57:53

they had more, But at the end of the day, most

57:55

people were able to go about their lives living

57:58

on a daily basis. Did no one it's

58:00

been done like capitalism, it hits

58:02

different. Yeah, yeah, they

58:04

are in a much worse state of affairs. Like

58:07

now we all wear metal collars and live

58:09

in gray boxes and work in a

58:11

steel mill. We're not allowed to fuck

58:13

anymore. Somehow, it's even more depressing

58:16

than it was, even though before it

58:18

was still a like relatively

58:21

brutal period of history. It was

58:23

still a more difficult life than a lot of people

58:25

live today, but it was a hell of a lot easier

58:27

than what it becomes. Um now

58:30

by this point Columbus has found again, He's

58:32

got the primarily the minds that he

58:34

finds the good gold mines are in Sabow, which is

58:36

part of the modern day Dominican

58:39

Republic. But gold was also

58:42

like, it's not the only precious substance

58:44

that he's got armed men forcing the locals

58:46

to mind for him. And I'm gonna quote from the other slavery

58:48

again for sheer horror and attrition

58:51

rates. The Pearl coast was worse. Indian

58:53

divers there spend agonizing days making

58:55

repeated descents of up to fifty feet well

58:57

holding their breath for a minute or more. Few

59:00

natives could endure these brutal conditions for long,

59:02

so ace they find out there's pearls, he makes people

59:04

like free dive to grab them all day,

59:06

every day, like repeatedly making these

59:09

like two atmosphere descents and then going

59:11

back up, which can kill you if you are

59:13

doing it properly, or even if you are just because

59:17

it's not a day. Yeah.

59:21

Now, the harshness of the tax system

59:23

levied upon these people who were also beset by

59:25

the disruptions. There's a war which disrupt things

59:27

and make sure there's widespread disease.

59:29

Now there's crop failures because

59:31

they're being taken and forced to mind because

59:33

there's these wars going on. Um. All

59:36

of this makes meeting Columbus as quotas

59:38

basically impossible. After

59:41

three collection periods, the natives

59:43

had provided just two hundred pacos worth

59:45

of gold out of the sixty thou pacos

59:47

that Columbus decided they owed arbitrarily.

59:50

Yeah, that's a scope for this project.

59:53

Since the local caciques had failed to meet

59:55

their numbers, the Spaniards now have to

59:57

take over, right. We tried to let you govern yourselves,

59:59

but you just couldn't make your taxes. So

1:00:02

now we're sending an armed men to take total

1:00:04

control of the process. Andres

1:00:06

Rescindez writes an average size

1:00:08

trench produced more than six thousand pounds of

1:00:10

dirt mixed with the tiniest fragments of gold. The

1:00:12

Indians carried this dirt on their bare backs

1:00:14

and loats, waiting three to four arobas about

1:00:17

sixty nine pounds. These were very

1:00:19

heavy burdens considering the slender build of most

1:00:21

of the laborers. The work proceeded ceaselessly

1:00:24

all day. Instead of using valuable beasts

1:00:26

of burden, the Spanish compelled natives to

1:00:28

do all the hauling horses and mules were devoted

1:00:30

to the tasks of conquest and pacification.

1:00:33

The Indians were even forced to carry their Christian

1:00:35

masters and hammocks. As a result, they developed

1:00:38

huge soars on their shoulders and backs,

1:00:40

as happens with animals made to carry excessive

1:00:42

loads, commented friar Less Cassas,

1:00:44

who arrived at Espaniola right at the time of the

1:00:47

gold rush. And this is not to mention the floggings,

1:00:49

beatings, thrashings, punches, curses, and countless

1:00:52

other vexations and cruelties to which they were routinely

1:00:54

subjected into which no chronicle could

1:00:56

ever do justice. And again, las Casas

1:00:58

is a guy who has a lot of admire ration in many

1:01:00

ways for Christopher Columbus, and he's

1:01:03

he's he's a fucking Catholic holy

1:01:05

man, right, so he's very much into the

1:01:07

hole. We have to convert everyone we can. But

1:01:09

he's also a human being and enough of one

1:01:11

that he he watches this happening

1:01:14

and it's like, there is no way in which

1:01:16

this is okay with God. This is

1:01:18

a nightmarish crime. What I he

1:01:20

And again, this is part of why you have to condemn

1:01:23

these people. Outside of their times, because

1:01:25

Las Casas is not looking at what

1:01:27

the Portuguese are doing in a um

1:01:30

and Guinea and being like, this is an unconscionable

1:01:33

crime, because that is it's bad,

1:01:36

but it is a bad that is normal for the era.

1:01:38

He looks at what is being done in these islands

1:01:40

and he says, this is the worst thing standing.

1:01:44

This is an exceptional act of evil.

1:01:47

Um that is that deserves to

1:01:50

ring out in history. Um

1:01:52

So, Over the next years, the late fourteen

1:01:55

nineties and the yearly fifteen hundreds, a madness

1:01:57

for gold overtakes the Spanish and crowds

1:01:59

of it and jrews flooded the region to take command

1:02:01

of minds and force indigenous people to labor

1:02:04

for their wealth. And it's height, the island

1:02:06

yielded more than two thousand pounds of gold

1:02:08

per year. It is said that the Spanish owners

1:02:10

through parties attended by slaves in which these

1:02:13

salt shakers were filled with gold dust,

1:02:16

which is good to eat. Ye

1:02:20

kind of like rich people today, we'll put gold leaf on

1:02:22

ship, even though it doesn't taste like anything and has

1:02:25

no nutritional value, just because like, look at

1:02:27

the money we're wasting. We went full

1:02:29

squid games before and

1:02:32

it did not take long at all. Mike. I always

1:02:34

imagine that was like like a

1:02:37

five year process. You're snorting

1:02:39

coke, putting gold on your burger,

1:02:41

watching like the pores fight

1:02:43

to the deaths happened

1:02:45

immediately. It is less than a decade

1:02:48

between. Look at this unspoiled island

1:02:50

full of beautiful people who are ready to learn the

1:02:52

Gospel of Christ to let's see on

1:02:55

the food wasted. Fuck them, let's see

1:02:57

gold while we watched them fight in their collars

1:02:59

and their shackles. Jesus so

1:03:03

quick that this so fast. And again

1:03:05

we're contrasting this to what the Portuguese are doing in

1:03:07

Guinea, not because it's okay, because that is the start

1:03:09

of the slave trade in Africa, which is a

1:03:12

crime absolutely on the level of the

1:03:14

genocide of like it is a nightmarish

1:03:16

crime. It's just at this point in time,

1:03:19

that's not yet what they're doing, right, it

1:03:21

has not really they are not yet taking huge

1:03:23

masses of people from Africa and putting them

1:03:25

on islands to work them to death. They do

1:03:28

that because they kill all of these people, right,

1:03:30

That's why the the that that

1:03:32

like the African slave trade really gets

1:03:35

going is because they like they genocide

1:03:38

enough of the people in the Caribbean that they

1:03:40

bring in workers to kill in plantations

1:03:42

and ship and mind um.

1:03:46

Anyway, it's all connected, is what I'm saying. Uh.

1:03:49

It is understood that the gold is not going

1:03:51

to last forever, and it's obvious

1:03:53

to everyone that the local labor force is dying

1:03:56

very quickly. The early miners,

1:03:58

and when I say miners, I mean the Spanish people

1:04:01

who own the minds, had a saying quote,

1:04:03

take the most advantage because you do not know

1:04:05

how long it will last, like there

1:04:08

there and this is you see this with um. This

1:04:10

is the reason why the British Empire in a

1:04:12

couple hundred years from now, when they take over chunk

1:04:15

of India, carry out a starvation genocide

1:04:17

right because they're shortsightedly trying to maximize

1:04:20

profits in such a way that makes it unable

1:04:22

for people to feed themselves and so thirty million

1:04:24

people die. But they think the same logic is

1:04:26

the same. It's like, I, as an individual, have

1:04:28

to get as much as I can out of here immediately,

1:04:31

because all that matters is like the quarterly balance

1:04:33

sheet. Basically, these people it's once logic.

1:04:36

That's what this is what's so important

1:04:38

because the fucking

1:04:41

people, the right wingers who raised me,

1:04:43

made a big point of talking about all of the deaths under

1:04:45

state communism, which is an important story

1:04:47

and we've talked about on the show, and you should not ignore

1:04:50

the Holodomor and the Great Leap Forward and all

1:04:52

of the different bad things that were done by state communist

1:04:54

regimes. The death toll of capitalism

1:04:57

is at least as high, if not much higher.

1:04:59

And it's starts here, right, Um, I mean it starts

1:05:01

a little bit like yeah, like these are

1:05:04

not yet kind of the joint stock companies

1:05:06

that will be recognizable, but the motivation

1:05:09

is the same. We are here. Our

1:05:11

goal is to use these human beings

1:05:14

who we have a right to take

1:05:16

from in terms of taxes um, in

1:05:18

order to create a profitable enterprise. And all that

1:05:20

matters from me is getting the short term profits

1:05:23

as quickly as possible out of here um

1:05:25

and whatever happens to them as the result, whatever

1:05:27

is done to this land as a result, doesn't

1:05:30

matter. This is not the only time in

1:05:32

history that this has happened, but it's the first

1:05:34

time it's happened like this. The Romans

1:05:36

did little versions of this. The Romans

1:05:39

never completely wiped out a people,

1:05:41

right, even as bad as the ship they did in Israel

1:05:44

was um, they didn't do this.

1:05:47

This is new. This is a destruction

1:05:50

of a people on a scale that

1:05:52

has not Maybe some of the ship

1:05:54

that Genghis Khan was doing compares

1:05:57

um, but it's that's the stage for

1:05:59

some uniquely American thoughts like

1:06:02

money over everything, or it's just business,

1:06:05

you know, like this, it's amazing

1:06:09

how early on it's set the tone

1:06:11

for in this place. It

1:06:13

is like gold crushes

1:06:16

the end, like might makes right. We

1:06:18

carry that tradition onto this day, like I don't.

1:06:21

It's it's fascinating to hear about

1:06:24

these people that you know that

1:06:26

he left behind, the go hog wild and viking

1:06:28

all over everything, and you're like, yeah,

1:06:31

it's it's like ever since the beginning, America

1:06:34

has been want a barrel

1:06:36

full of single bad apples, and

1:06:38

whenever you cover for it, you point to one

1:06:40

and go, well, there was a bad apple, or like

1:06:43

Columbus couldn't lead you, like right, what

1:06:45

about all the other stuff and the other stuff

1:06:47

and the other stuff. It's there's bad

1:06:50

apples all the way down as we taught

1:06:52

you and I talked about in fact in the episodes about

1:06:54

like the first corporations the West

1:06:58

the British Eastern companies,

1:07:01

um, which are two separate companies.

1:07:03

Um. When we talked about those, we were

1:07:06

talking about actual recognizable corporate in a

1:07:08

modern sense. They function basically the same

1:07:10

way as a modern corporation does. UM.

1:07:12

And that's what and that is like an actual capitalism

1:07:14

and that like it is a group of people using their capital

1:07:17

in order to own the rights to the profit

1:07:19

of labor of other people. Right, UM,

1:07:21

what's happening here? You do not have that advanced

1:07:24

an idea like these are not corporate they're doing

1:07:26

this for the crown but also for their own individual benefit.

1:07:28

But what you do have here is this idea

1:07:31

that has led to most of the problems we are

1:07:33

encountering now with stuff like climate change, with Chevron

1:07:35

covering up what they knew about climate

1:07:38

change since the nineteen seventies. Is like the forging

1:07:40

of the ethos. The sacred

1:07:42

thing is short term profits and anything

1:07:45

that gets in the way of that, that's actually like

1:07:47

a problem. But you know what else is

1:07:50

sacred? Michael? What

1:07:53

what just products and services

1:07:56

and support? This podcast Sacred

1:07:59

and ad as Lee separate from any

1:08:01

of the ideas going on with the Spaniards

1:08:04

massacring people. Here, We're not

1:08:07

taking part in a gold rush over a

1:08:09

new type of media that is easy

1:08:11

to exploit profitably now and perhaps

1:08:14

in ways that are shortsighted. Um.

1:08:17

No, it's just the fact that you

1:08:19

must do anything to achieve

1:08:21

shareholder growth, no matter what that's

1:08:25

occur anywhere anymore. We got

1:08:28

over it, okay.

1:08:35

So, despite regular admonishments

1:08:38

from the Royals, Columbus continued to send enslaved

1:08:40

human beings back to Europe during this period, where

1:08:42

he's also tax genociding them. Due

1:08:45

to the high death rate, each boat was crammed as full of

1:08:47

people as possible, which is again this is where we because

1:08:50

I really am not. I hope people do not read that I'm

1:08:52

trying to minimize the Portuguese slave trade

1:08:54

in Guinea. But the stuff that becomes so

1:08:57

famous about the African slave trade, how cram

1:08:59

They aren't these nightmareeships where

1:09:01

millions of people literally diet. It

1:09:04

is a slavery genocide that is eventually

1:09:06

carried out there. That is not the way

1:09:08

the slave trade looks quite yet in

1:09:11

Africa, right, which is not to say that it's not horrible.

1:09:13

They are enslaving people. That's ugly. They are

1:09:15

not this is the start of well, because

1:09:17

the death threat is going to be so high, we have to jam as many people

1:09:19

as possible in the boats as we can, and like we have this

1:09:22

kind of um, this rhythmetic

1:09:24

of death for profit. Right, that

1:09:27

is, this is where a lot of you are going to lose expects

1:09:30

exactly. Um. This

1:09:33

leads to problems as well, such as when a flotilla

1:09:35

of five ships were stuck in San Domingo

1:09:37

Harbor for two and a half weeks while Columbus

1:09:40

negotiated with a guy. So he puts

1:09:42

this guy in charge of his militia when he's

1:09:44

away finding gold. This guy rebels again

1:09:47

and then Columbus has to like talking about

1:09:49

right, but this is like the third

1:09:51

time it's occurred. Um. So

1:09:54

he's while he's negotiating with this guy to like

1:09:56

figure out this issue and get trade restarted.

1:09:59

He has boats in his harbor that are

1:10:01

crammed full of people that he has captured,

1:10:04

and he leaves them there for two and a

1:10:06

half weeks, crammed into the hold

1:10:08

while he's negotiating, just leaving your

1:10:10

baby in your truck with the window the

1:10:12

sun is so like they suffocate. Las

1:10:15

Casas writes that quote, unable to breathe

1:10:17

from anguish in the closeness of their quarters, they

1:10:20

smothered, and an infinite number of these Indians

1:10:22

perished, and their bodies were thrown into the sea

1:10:24

downstream. Columbus is like preoccupied

1:10:27

dealing with this guy that he's got a bit. And then he

1:10:29

like comes, oh, they all died. I left them all in the boats

1:10:32

and they all died. Throw their corpses in the water. Let's

1:10:34

grab some more. That's the again.

1:10:37

And that is bad

1:10:39

for the time. That is an exceptional

1:10:42

act of human evil, which is what he's guilty.

1:10:44

I know that. I just Delaney's

1:10:46

Columbus's writing.

1:10:49

So he wasn't the best business man,

1:10:52

so he lost. There was a lot of shrinkage

1:10:54

in the trade. He was engaged. And I'm

1:10:57

so fucking angry at this woman, her

1:10:59

color. This never loses his missionary

1:11:01

zeal or his desire to find the Great Khan and

1:11:04

the horrors that occur as Spanish domination.

1:11:06

Because she doesn't deny that there's a genocide occurring,

1:11:08

right she does not try to whitewash the genocide.

1:11:11

This is all, but it's portrayed as tragic results

1:11:14

of the evils of other men. The reality

1:11:16

is that Columbus the governor writes back

1:11:18

to his sovereigns regularly nearly overcome

1:11:21

with glee at the financial prospects of this new

1:11:23

slave trade. From here

1:11:25

one can, in the name of the Holy Trinity, send

1:11:28

all the slaves that can be sold, of which,

1:11:30

if the information I have is correct, they could sell

1:11:32

for four thousand and at minimum value,

1:11:34

they would be worth twenty millions, and four thousand

1:11:37

quintalls of Brazil would which would be worth

1:11:39

at least as much. At an expense of six millions.

1:11:41

It would appear that forty millions could be realized

1:11:44

if there is no lack of ships, which I believe,

1:11:46

with the aid of the Lord, that will not be once they are

1:11:48

filled on this voyage. So again he's

1:11:50

very much thinking about this purely from a here's

1:11:53

what they're worth. Here is the cash value, because

1:11:55

I'm getting a cut from it. Right, He's getting like a quarter

1:11:57

of all of the value of the trade. Las

1:12:00

Casas, who was also doing math, just

1:12:03

pulling shit out of his ass that

1:12:06

He's like, yeah, Like, well, I mean

1:12:08

there worth this, And

1:12:11

according to my previous letter, there's infinite

1:12:13

women. So if you scale it at infinity,

1:12:16

that's quite a lot. There's no way he

1:12:18

can have firm numbers on this ship. I just don't

1:12:20

buy it, and he doesn't, right. Um,

1:12:23

So when it comes to properly condemning

1:12:25

a man like Columbus, we must note again others

1:12:28

of his peers at the time, people who are watching

1:12:30

this are horrified. Las Casas, who

1:12:32

is utterly unsparing in his description

1:12:34

of what Columbus is doing. What greater

1:12:37

or more supine hardheartedness and

1:12:39

blindedness can there be than this? In

1:12:41

the name of the Holy Trinity, he Columbus

1:12:43

could send all the slaves which could be sold in

1:12:45

all the said kingdoms. Many times,

1:12:48

I believe blindness and corruption infected

1:12:50

the Admiral, which is you know, I don't

1:12:52

think blindness is, but certainly corruption.

1:12:55

Yeah no, this this is the same speech

1:12:57

my dad gives me every Thanksgiving, and it's devastating

1:13:00

every time. It's quite a takedown. Well,

1:13:02

Michael, you you do operate a

1:13:04

pretty pretty brutal business enslaving

1:13:07

people. Um, you know, I

1:13:09

I happen to think that it's justified

1:13:12

that you're sending them to Blue Apron's island where

1:13:14

they will be hunted. Um but but

1:13:16

a lot of people think probably shouldn't be

1:13:18

enslaving children for the Blue Apron corporate. They

1:13:20

will be served tastefully in a

1:13:23

like cost impactful ready to way,

1:13:26

Yeah, wrapped in an unfortunate

1:13:29

amount of plastic as well, which

1:13:32

makes all my users cannibals, which then justifies

1:13:35

me enslaving them, and the whole system perpetuates

1:13:38

it. Michael, it's not said enough.

1:13:40

Anny a candy businessman, thank

1:13:43

you, thank you. Um I learned it

1:13:45

from Columbus. Yeah, we all did you

1:13:47

know the only businessman Chris

1:13:50

sie um so

1:13:53

h. Christopher Columbus. The King and

1:13:55

Queen initially accept his claims that

1:13:57

the people he's sending them are all cannibals capture

1:14:00

it in war and thus fair targets for enslavement.

1:14:02

But they start to grow concerned. Is he just keeps

1:14:04

on sending back ships full of dead people?

1:14:07

Right? Um? So because

1:14:09

they're they're they're worried. They get framed

1:14:12

often as like being super sympathetic to

1:14:14

the natives because some of the stuff they write is in

1:14:16

terms of its writing very sympathetic. The

1:14:18

main thing they do is they convene

1:14:20

a counsel of like scholars and religious

1:14:23

experts to try and determine if it's okay

1:14:25

to enslave these people. Um, we

1:14:28

don't actually know what this committee decided. Eventually

1:14:31

it came to some decision. We have no idea what it was.

1:14:33

That that information has been lost because again

1:14:35

record keeping wasn't perfectly speriod, but

1:14:37

we know that their concerns did very little

1:14:40

to slow this process. It is

1:14:42

probably worth noting that Queen Isabella did late

1:14:44

in life, makes something of a name for herself

1:14:46

as an advocate for indigenous rights. By

1:14:48

four she was horrified

1:14:50

by the constant shiploads of dead and dying

1:14:53

enslaved people and asked, who

1:14:55

was this Columbus who dares to give out my vassals

1:14:57

as slaves. She and her husband

1:15:00

did free a lot of these people. A decent number of these

1:15:02

people are freed when they arrived because they're like, what the funk

1:15:04

he sent us another ship of people We didn't want

1:15:06

this um, and some of them even make

1:15:08

it back to the New World. Nearly all

1:15:10

of them choose to go back when they're giving in

1:15:12

the times when they're given the option. By

1:15:16

the end of the fifteen hundreds, Columbus Star

1:15:18

had faded at court. In late four he

1:15:21

sent a letter back to his master's

1:15:24

proposing a sale of four

1:15:26

thousand slaves. The letter came

1:15:28

with several so these colonists who rebel

1:15:30

when he's sitting there with a boats full of people, he

1:15:32

sends a bunch of them back to Spain

1:15:35

with him, and in order to keep them happy,

1:15:37

he gives each of them a slave. So he enslaves

1:15:39

six hundred Tino to give these rebellious

1:15:41

colonists as slaves when they return home.

1:15:44

So they come home with a dude or

1:15:46

as is often the case, with a young woman Um

1:15:48

and this fleet. So this when this fleet

1:15:50

arrives back in Spain, he's number one.

1:15:53

All of these people who rebelled have been given enslaved

1:15:55

people. And number two Columbus is like, I want to enslave

1:15:57

four thousand more people and send them back. Is that with

1:16:00

you, guys? Um? And if

1:16:02

not, is there a way I could throw slaves at

1:16:04

the problem? Yes? Yes? And this comes back

1:16:06

with number one the fact that all of the colonists

1:16:09

he sending back are people who had rebelled

1:16:11

and been sent back means like the king

1:16:14

and Queen are like, he might not be good at running

1:16:16

this colony um. But also

1:16:18

other people are coming back from the New

1:16:21

World at the time and being like, hey, he's

1:16:23

kind of sucks at everything. You

1:16:25

might not want to leave him in charge of this um.

1:16:29

And I'm after four or five ships full of dead

1:16:31

bodies. I'd be like, is this are

1:16:34

you to

1:16:36

say, I don't think he's

1:16:38

good at this. I'm gonna quote from American

1:16:40

heritage here. The sixteenth century

1:16:43

historian Antonio di Herrera de Tortresila,

1:16:45

also a great admirer of Columbus, wrote

1:16:48

that many of the charges brought by the white residents

1:16:50

of Espanola against the admiral was one

1:16:52

that he would not consent to the baptism

1:16:54

of Indians whom the Friars wished to baptize,

1:16:57

because he wanted more slaves than Christians,

1:16:59

that he made war against the Indians unjustly

1:17:01

and made many slaves to be sent to Castile.

1:17:04

And again, one of Delany's big defenses is he only

1:17:06

enslaves people who are fighting him, and he doesn't he

1:17:08

doesn't wonder what he wants to christianize people, which

1:17:10

means he can't have wanted to enslave them all. And

1:17:13

again we have contemporary historians

1:17:15

being like, no, a bunch of people at the time we're

1:17:17

like, hey, it seems like you're starting wars specifically

1:17:20

to justify enslaving people, and you're

1:17:22

refusing to allow friars to baptize

1:17:24

people who want to be Christians because you want

1:17:26

to enslave them. That seems bad

1:17:28

Christopher. Um. And

1:17:31

the counter argument is no, no, no, he

1:17:33

was just trying to enslave their mind and soul,

1:17:35

not what

1:17:38

the Catholics here who call him out as

1:17:40

bad are want. Isn't always all that

1:17:43

much better, but relatively speak,

1:17:45

yeah yeah um and

1:17:48

yeah. There's Catholic missionaries

1:17:50

who return home. They send letters back to the cardinal

1:17:52

who the and the Archbishop of Toledo accusing

1:17:55

Columbus and his brothers of

1:17:57

actively attempting to like harm

1:18:00

efforts of the missionaries to convert the natives

1:18:02

to Christianity. Um. They that

1:18:04

one of the things they keep pointing out in their complaints

1:18:06

to the to the Pope and whatnot is that like, hey,

1:18:09

like the fact that we're being so shitty

1:18:11

these people makes them not like Christianity.

1:18:14

Um, and this is a problem for us as friars

1:18:18

figure figure. So

1:18:21

Columbus's downfall, harsh and humiliating,

1:18:23

came within weeks of this decree. The sovereigns

1:18:26

summarily removed him from his highest state of viceroy

1:18:28

and governor of the New World Colonies and appointed

1:18:30

the Commander Francis D. Bobadilla as

1:18:32

a successor. And what many historians regard

1:18:35

as an excess of zeal Bobadilla sent Columbus

1:18:37

and his two brothers back to Castile in chains.

1:18:40

The sovereigns ordered the brothers released and authorized

1:18:42

a fourth voyage by Columbus, but mandated

1:18:44

he never set foot in Espaniola again. Now

1:18:48

this is that that was just a quote from American Heritage

1:18:51

Carol de Lady makes Boba Dela out to be the

1:18:53

bad guy of the whole thing, um, which

1:18:56

he also sucked. Right, he is a brutal

1:18:58

Catholic soldier who had helped like repress

1:19:01

Uprising ship and shipped for the But if you're

1:19:03

white washing some ship head, you need a scapegoat,

1:19:07

right, Yeah, Like it's true that he sucked,

1:19:09

so did Columbus. And by the way, Columbus

1:19:11

deserved a lot worse than chains Um.

1:19:14

Obviously, the king and Queen, who also get whitewashed

1:19:16

a lot because of the purported care for the indigenous

1:19:19

people, also sucked. They sent him on another

1:19:21

fucking voyage after this, So like, funk those people

1:19:23

right, Like, let's not nobody nobody's

1:19:26

good here. Columbus is just the worst

1:19:28

of them, I think for all the yeah

1:19:31

they commissioned Spider Man turn off the Dark

1:19:33

two, they were the motherfuckers who were

1:19:35

like, yes, another one please. So

1:19:38

Christopher Columbus died on May

1:19:41

fift oh six. Despite his many

1:19:43

failures and crimes, he maintained many of

1:19:45

the benefits promised to him by the Spanish crown

1:19:48

and passed a considerate amount on to his

1:19:50

sons. What little justice he experienced

1:19:52

was not enough to save the r Walk, particularly

1:19:55

the Tino, who were completely extinct

1:19:57

by the early fift hundreds. There's still

1:19:59

some arrow up peoples around, but the Tino

1:20:01

or extinct. I think the Caribs are as well. Most

1:20:04

of the people who had existed when he arrived

1:20:06

in the area that he arrives in are absolutely

1:20:09

wiped out in like twenty y ish years and

1:20:12

it's worth discussing precisely how

1:20:14

this happened, because this is a part of the story

1:20:16

that seldom gets told. Now, we don't

1:20:18

know how many people were in these islands at the time of

1:20:20

first contact. Frireless Cosas estimated

1:20:23

Espaniola's population around three million

1:20:25

people. Archaeologists suggest a

1:20:27

more realistic number might be three hundred thousand

1:20:30

um. If that is the case, by fifteen

1:20:32

o eight, sixteen years after first contact,

1:20:34

only sixty thousand remained. So

1:20:37

if you assume three hundred thousand people or

1:20:39

so, by sixteen years after first

1:20:41

contact, sixty thousand or left,

1:20:43

that means eighty percent have died in

1:20:45

the first sixteen years. The

1:20:49

plague was like a third or a quarter.

1:20:51

Yeah, I mean in some places it was

1:20:53

sev right, like there were some parts

1:20:56

of Europe. But we're talking plague numbers. We're

1:20:58

talking this apocaly

1:21:00

this this end of the world shit. Many

1:21:03

of these people were killed by diseaser of violence,

1:21:05

but also a lot of them committed

1:21:08

what some scholars say was essentially

1:21:10

a form of race suicide. And

1:21:12

to close this out, I'm going to read for you,

1:21:14

Michael, one of the most harrowing passages

1:21:17

I have ever read in my research for this show. Um.

1:21:19

This is from the book The Other Slavery by Andres

1:21:22

Ruscindez. Quote. Okay, I'll think of a joke,

1:21:24

Robert, go ahead, you

1:21:26

you you'll be You'll be cooking on that.

1:21:29

Thanks for inviting me. This has been wonderful.

1:21:32

Demoralized by the Spanish tribute

1:21:34

system and unnerved by their own prophecies,

1:21:36

many Indians took steps to escape, and

1:21:38

the only way left to them. Columbus became

1:21:40

aware of the dimensions of the tragedy decimating

1:21:43

the Indians when quote it was pointed out

1:21:45

to him that the natives had been vexed by a famine

1:21:47

so widespread that more than fifty thousand

1:21:49

men had died, and every day they fell

1:21:51

everywhere like sickened flocks. In the word

1:21:54

of Peter Martyr, the reality was

1:21:56

even more terrible than famine. It was self

1:21:58

inflicted. The Indians destroy avoid their

1:22:00

stores of bread so that neither they nor the

1:22:02

invaders would be able to eat it. They plunged

1:22:05

off cliffs, They poisoned themselves

1:22:07

with roots, and they starved themselves

1:22:09

to death. Oppressed by the impossible requirement

1:22:11

to deliver tributes of gold, the Indians

1:22:13

were no longer able to tend their fields or care

1:22:16

for their sick children and elderly. They had

1:22:18

given up and committed mass suicide

1:22:20

to avoid being killed or captured by Christians,

1:22:22

and to avoid sharing their land with them, their

1:22:24

fields, groves, beaches, forests, and women,

1:22:27

the future of their people. It was an extraordinary

1:22:30

act of despair and self destruction,

1:22:32

so overwhelming that the Spanish could not

1:22:35

comprehend it. All of them fifty

1:22:37

thousand Indians dead by their own hand.

1:22:40

The dwindling number of survivors found themselves

1:22:42

trapped in a survivalistic Indo game. Some

1:22:44

took refuge in the mountains, where Spanish dogs

1:22:47

set upon them. Those who avoided the dogs

1:22:49

succumbed to starvation and illness. Although estimates

1:22:51

of the population are in exact, the trendis Plaine.

1:22:54

Of the approximately three thousand Indians

1:22:56

and Hispaniola at the time of Columbus's first

1:22:58

voyage, in a hundred

1:23:00

thousand or so died between fourteen ninety

1:23:02

four and fourteen ninety six, half of them

1:23:05

during the mass suicide. Las Casas

1:23:07

estimated that the Indian population fourteen ninety

1:23:09

six was only one third of what had been in fourteen

1:23:12

ninety four, What a splendid harvest,

1:23:14

and how quickly they reaped it, he wrote

1:23:16

acidly. Twelve years later, in fifteen

1:23:19

o eight, A Cinsus counted sixty thousand

1:23:21

Indians, or one fifth of the original population,

1:23:23

and by fifteen forty eight Fernandez

1:23:26

de Oviedo found only five hundred

1:23:28

Indians, the survivors of the hundreds of

1:23:30

thousands who had populated the islands when Columbus

1:23:33

arrived, and who had seen him as the fulfillment

1:23:35

of a longstanding prophecy. It was only

1:23:37

now that the meaning of that prophecy became clear.

1:23:40

His presence meant their extinction. Wow,

1:23:43

So that's pretty bad. It's sick that

1:23:45

they It started with the word decimated,

1:23:47

and I think that means one tenth

1:23:49

are killed. Yeah, Like, imagine

1:23:51

being decimated over and over and over and over

1:23:54

every year left, Yeah,

1:23:57

out of three hundred thousand and how a

1:24:00

huge chunk of the death was people making

1:24:02

a conscious choice to kill themselves

1:24:04

so that they wouldn't have to live with these which

1:24:06

I think speaks to how rapid the changes

1:24:08

were. Because any

1:24:10

student of history will tell you you can

1:24:13

actually get a population to suffer mightily

1:24:15

over a long period of time. And not kill themselves

1:24:18

if you do it slowly. So that means

1:24:20

these changes were so rapid that the whole

1:24:22

generation of people were like, I cannot

1:24:24

even grapple with let's just

1:24:27

that's that, um, which is yeah,

1:24:30

just very telling. I don't

1:24:32

think there's even an inclement periods of history

1:24:35

where ship is really really upsetting. You

1:24:37

don't usually get fifty people checking

1:24:39

out at once as a conscious decision. And

1:24:42

you know, we're almost an act of rebellion. This

1:24:45

is this is an act of them taking agency.

1:24:47

And you know, we cannot fight these people, right.

1:24:50

We are are too weak and they are too strong for

1:24:52

us to combat them militarily.

1:24:55

But we recognize their religion

1:24:58

and their beliefs them as sick

1:25:00

and wrong and we will not live under it. And

1:25:03

so we're going to do the only thing that we can do. Um.

1:25:08

And you know this is not the only time things

1:25:10

like that will happen. You know, you have cases of like slaveships

1:25:12

mutinying in ways that like will kill them all,

1:25:15

and they're like, but this is better than living with these people.

1:25:18

UM. Yeah,

1:25:20

it's That's the story of Chris Columbus

1:25:23

uh, director of the Home Alone movies.

1:25:26

They were the United of

1:25:29

Islands. Really yeah, they were like, these

1:25:31

terrorists have taken control. We're just going to crash

1:25:33

this ship. Yeah, this is the only thing we can

1:25:35

think of to do. Um sapped

1:25:39

funny out of unspeakably bleak.

1:25:42

One of the worst stories I have ever encountered

1:25:44

in my life. How could that be? It's the

1:25:46

story of America? Yeah, yeah,

1:25:48

yeah, um, it

1:25:51

is the story of America. Well, Michael,

1:25:56

Robert mchaale W

1:26:00

wrote, you got autar I don't

1:26:02

know what they call you in Russia. You got

1:26:04

any pluggables to plug? You want to art, Robert,

1:26:06

push your business here. I guess

1:26:09

if if I can stammer

1:26:11

a little bit and blank people's minds

1:26:14

and separate the taste in their mouth

1:26:16

that they have now with the thing that I'm about

1:26:18

to say. But yeah, if you want to hear me

1:26:20

podcast about stuff

1:26:23

I was gonna say, ranging from less to more bleak,

1:26:25

but no, all less bleak than this Uh,

1:26:27

including depression, addiction and drama,

1:26:30

but still all less bleak than this ship. Uh.

1:26:33

Look us up over at small Beans. You can find

1:26:35

it, you know, wherever you get podcasts or

1:26:38

a Patreon dot com slash. Small Beans if

1:26:40

you're into video games. Check out my other podcasts

1:26:42

on the I Heart Network One Upsmanship.

1:26:46

I guess Columbus was kind of the original

1:26:48

one ups man ship, right,

1:26:51

Yeah, I think that's ultimately what I learned.

1:26:54

Yeah, that is that is the lesson he was

1:26:56

shipping men. He was shipping

1:26:58

men. And to add in old to injury,

1:27:01

the fact that I'm sorry you mentioned this tiny detail,

1:27:03

but it's rankled me the whole time. They

1:27:05

made them carry them in hammocks.

1:27:08

They invented hammocks, you dirty

1:27:10

pizza. Worse right, gave

1:27:13

you hammock technology. You motherfucker

1:27:15

couldn't figure it out on your own, and then stole

1:27:18

it, made us carry you you sides.

1:27:22

So yeah, I think the only

1:27:24

thing I can say at the end of this harrowing series

1:27:27

learning about Columbus is, folks

1:27:29

at home, if you wanna stick

1:27:32

it to Christopher Columbus and the people like him,

1:27:34

go firebomb a pizza restaurant.

1:27:37

Doesn't matter which one. Stick it to

1:27:39

the Italians. That's the only way. Take

1:27:42

out. Find the local pizza restaurant, buck

1:27:44

them up. That'll

1:27:47

teach him. I legally endorsed

1:27:49

this statement as well. Good Good. I wanted

1:27:51

a little bit of extra cover on that one, all

1:27:54

right, everybody. That's our legally

1:27:56

binding advice to you is destroy all

1:27:58

pizza restaurants in vengeance for

1:28:01

Columbus's crimes. Hey, do the right

1:28:03

thing. Do the right thing. Behind

1:28:07

the Bastards is a production of cool Zone

1:28:09

Media. For more from cool Zone Media, visit

1:28:11

our website cool zone media dot com,

1:28:14

or check us out on the I Heart Radio

1:28:16

app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

1:28:18

podcasts.