0:00

on this episode of the ben greenfield

0:03

fitness podcast is one thing

0:05

to go hunt by yourself it's another

0:07

thing to hunt with a tribe of men

0:09

just like our ancestors would have

0:11

done things that are sacred or

0:13

the thing is that call at our heartstrings

0:16

and that tension a

0:19

of of to

0:24

a or

0:27

or it ,

0:40

more to

0:52

a will hall a everybody

0:55

i wanna tell you something i am actually

0:57

going to be in san diego

1:00

in my to thousand twenty to speaking

1:02

at the personal be performance summit the

1:04

vip summit the vip summit a

1:06

anyway you can get a vip pass

1:09

to attend can be supercool it

1:11

is a summit a pacific college on around

1:13

you get at performance paula alex

1:16

gonna be there a my paula test san get passage

1:18

a will theres gonna be there a indo

1:20

rites author alex hutchinson is gonna be

1:22

there shure be pretty cool theres an exhibit

1:25

hall its open to everybody can also get a

1:27

vip pass to get in on

1:29

on of the gonna a i

1:31

will paula the you our out in the show

1:33

notes a you can also find it at

1:35

be gonna open out college pass called

1:37

author where everybody am speaking is list but this ones

1:39

in san diego in a sochi

1:42

second out its called the personal be performance

1:44

summit at pacific college in

1:46

san diego my twentieth theres twenty

1:48

second i also got a

1:50

super exciting announcement fresh out the sacred

1:53

be medicines at can is our newest

1:55

addition to our author college san

1:57

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2:02

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3:35

well you guys you know

3:38

if you've been was in this podcast for

3:40

any period of time the i totally like

3:43

to get out and and poke around with my

3:45

bow i like to hunt sites

3:47

i started firearms on thing

3:49

about oh gosh seven or eight years ago

3:51

and switch to bow after a few

3:54

years that and and of typically

3:56

go out a few times a year and and the

3:58

harvest an animal and enjoy gods

4:01

great creation and the

4:03

in the end i suppose sometimes i

4:05

get a little bit of flak from either

4:07

a people who who are might

4:09

feel bad that that hunting is

4:12

not a nuts are suffering

4:14

we ethical or be

4:16

ah all are sometimes get a good

4:18

kick back from folks who i think have

4:21

the impression of a hunter being

4:23

a redneck who are dumps

4:26

a bunch of corn on the ground and then climbs up

4:28

into a tree in place candy crush on their phone

4:30

while waiting for a deer to walk underneath

4:32

the treat men shoot them with him giant

4:34

weapons or perhaps the people in texas

4:37

who us go hunting

4:39

from helicopters with a k forty sevens

4:41

after pigs there's obviously a lot of

4:43

different ways that one can hunt and and you

4:45

know my guest on today's podcast

4:47

he is the founder

4:50

of an organization called sacred

4:52

hunting i , to look into sacred

4:54

hunting a few months ago ago

4:57

they even got a chance to read my

4:59

guest book about sacred hunting

5:02

his name is mass all denton ah

5:04

and are basically season

5:07

comments kind of studied up

5:09

on honorable ways

5:11

to harvest animals

5:13

to feed your family or yourself

5:16

and also how

5:18

how to really tap into

5:21

the sacredness of hunting as

5:23

his company's name implies sacred hunting

5:26

and he he he wrote this book or of

5:28

sacred hunting rekindling an ancient

5:30

spiritual practice was just a fantastic

5:32

exploration of hunting is a rite of passage and

5:35

hunting is a deeply spiritual experience

5:37

and hunting as something that goes beyond

5:39

just say putting me on the table

5:41

or god forbid sitting in a tree stand

5:43

playing candy crush and and waiting

5:45

for an animal with a giant bazooka or

5:48

and so months all is

5:50

somebody that i really wanted to go on the show for few

5:53

reasons first of all because

5:55

i know that obtaining food

5:57

know sustains life is something that

5:59

for many people is either a

6:01

foreign concept or something that you really

6:04

if you already on it's the

6:06

, begun to associate

6:09

with the deeply spiritual on city good

6:11

at that hunting actually is is

6:14

i also want to get muzzle on the show because

6:16

we are actually going to be putting

6:18

a hunt together we're we're get rid of me doing

6:21

a sacred hunt down the hawaiian

6:23

island of of molokai where their wares

6:25

or twenty thousand access deer and

6:27

the yard some some amazing hunting

6:30

and hunting experiences and so

6:33

not only are you gonna learn this podcast

6:35

all that more about what sacred hunting is but you also

6:38

learn about how you could even potentially

6:40

joining months on i in that experience

6:43

if it's something you want to do what you've never hunted

6:45

in your life or whether you are

6:47

a hunter but you kind of want to tap

6:49

into a different flavor of hunting so to

6:51

speak a more sacred and i

6:53

think appropriate experience so

6:56

months off what comes what showman

6:59

thank you thank you for yeah

7:01

sharing all of that and your own experience

7:04

with hunting and honestly thank

7:06

you for initially supporting

7:09

my journey into hunting in the first place

7:11

yeah yeah offers for german i

7:14

i've been pleased to see that

7:16

as many may my friends but in health and fitness

7:18

sector who have never hunted before

7:20

of actually connected with you and gone on hunts with you

7:22

and had i had a really really good

7:24

experience from the reports of they brought back but

7:27

i will actually want to start with something super

7:29

friends or because i

7:31

met use years ago then

7:33

we didn't say contact too much and then

7:36

like the last i heard about you until i

7:38

finally got your new

7:40

book inserted a tap and what you're doing now

7:43

was that you are in prison and

7:45

so i know it's a weird place to start a podcast

7:47

but how the heck did you wind up in prison do what it

7:49

what happened well

7:52

the story that required

7:54

a lot of introspection and

7:56

reflections it was basically

7:59

that the my high

8:01

school years i think like a lot

8:03

of man i cells

8:07

use in a lot of self doubt questions

8:09

about my work the and

8:12

there was clearly

8:14

that shows that most in relationships

8:17

with girls and and things like that

8:19

and so when i was in high school i

8:23

the had a relationship with a woman who

8:25

lived in switzerland and

8:29

when i graduated high school i wanted

8:31

to move to europe and go be with

8:33

her so basically

8:36

i stole some historical documents

8:39

that were part of a museum

8:41

that i was an intern intern

8:44

the time and i sold them

8:46

and i went to europe for two years

8:48

and so this was you know nineteen

8:51

years old definitely

8:53

did not have a fully developed brain

8:55

and unfortunately made it's

8:58

mentally bad choices but really skewed

9:00

my sense of morality

9:03

in order to feet

9:06

what i thought was some type

9:08

of solace for this you know not

9:10

good enough not feeling good enough in myself

9:13

the and a few years

9:16

but between

9:18

those three and half years that's when we met

9:20

and the time that i went to prison

9:23

the , was coming to some type

9:25

of fruition but added

9:28

get him to prison and spent time in prison

9:31

and it was one

9:33

of the greatest a rites of passage

9:36

the i could have asked for it

9:38

and parallels actually some indigenous

9:41

cultures that have today

9:44

considered prison to be a rite of passage

9:47

such as the in a lot of the aboriginal people

9:49

in australia so am

9:52

grateful for it but that's palau

9:54

this journey started

9:55

and declare by you don't you don't mean that

9:58

do takes some parentless it

10:00

should ensure their child's does of the illegal to

10:02

wind up in prison so they can go to a rite of passage

10:04

for what you're saying is that people who

10:07

have wound up in prison have experienced

10:09

something very similar to something

10:11

like to write like a rite of passage that

10:13

you know that lightning say i get a young

10:16

the young man might have gone through in

10:18

ancient times you know like a like a spartan

10:21

where you're going off for a series of

10:23

ego disillusioned nights of loneliness

10:25

out in the wilderness is something that one

10:27

might experience the gonna sorta

10:30

a similar type of us i

10:32

guess feeling when they won't of in prison

10:35

totally yeah obviously don't encourage

10:37

that in your children or would never wish it

10:39

upon anyone but specifically

10:42

i spoke with and indigenous

10:44

elders in australia

10:47

, for those who aren't familiar

10:50

you know australia had it is aboriginal

10:52

people that were pretty marginalized

10:55

similar to the indigenous in north america

10:57

and crime is so high

10:59

and long aboriginal communities

11:02

now he basically

11:04

told me a lot of their cultural rites

11:06

of passage has been substituted

11:09

for prison now and they have

11:12

unintentionally started

11:14

to see that as a rite

11:16

of passage so yes i totally agreed

11:18

no emphasized that crap

11:21

you have it if you don't have to there's other

11:23

up more healthy ways of doing it but

11:26

you know yeah like a day in

11:29

the type of with a type of personality

11:31

trying to grow and learn

11:33

you just start to see things even

11:36

challenging things as opportunities

11:38

for that

11:39

yeah and i wanna hear more about kind of like

11:41

what would happen for you mentally your psychologically

11:43

in prison that kind of shipped to you towards becoming

11:46

interested in said good hunting in the first place bus

11:48

your back to that whole right of passage

11:51

thing you're hunting and

11:53

of itself is incorrect

11:55

me if i'm wrong has long

11:57

been and elements of a rite

11:59

of passage me in that going off

12:01

into the wilderness to harvest your first animals

12:03

something that specifically a young man

12:06

would often experience as a way to prove that

12:08

they were ready to be able to provide

12:10

and protect right

12:12

exactly there's a lot of anthropological

12:16

, says south american

12:18

tribes were they have

12:20

different words for a

12:23

a male that transitions

12:26

from boy to man and

12:28

it's completely dependent

12:30

on their ability to

12:32

successfully hunt and obviously

12:35

it makes sense because

12:37

the new

12:38

tribes where you're a part

12:41

of your family in such a close knit way

12:43

basically you you don't leave your parents

12:46

as a as a male until

12:49

you can adequately feed yourself

12:51

and others to create your own family

12:54

and so you not only

12:56

is it culturally very

12:59

important to have this as a rite of passage

13:01

it's it's a pragmatic saying

13:03

that's very deep in our the

13:05

in a to have

13:07

hunting be a rite of passage into the next

13:10

page of of life

13:13

get out the and i mean even in in the us

13:15

it's considered gonna like a red blooded american

13:17

male thing says you know this kind of sort

13:19

of rite of passage to beg your first but you know

13:21

with a rifle and and i unfortunately

13:24

think that there are so many

13:26

missing components of that

13:28

type of haunt especially and in say like a westernize

13:30

contacts were yeah ,

13:32

gone out you may be having a beer it's your dad and

13:34

ano point in a boom boom state of an animal

13:37

inspiring and and literally

13:39

causing bloodshed but the on it and

13:41

may be taken aback strap over a fire that night

13:43

but there's not a whole lot lot

13:46

sacredness worked into the experience or even acknowledgement

13:48

that you've taken a life which technically

13:50

to jokes you have and i know that that

13:53

me other there's a lot of you

13:55

know american hunters who kind of i

13:58

think they discussed kind of

14:00

ridicule the whole idea of like maybe

14:02

kneeling over the animal and saying a prayer

14:04

even preparing yourself in the way that i know that you

14:06

organize with the sacred hans was i so want to get

14:09

into yet i think that

14:11

we still see hunting as

14:13

something that that that's practice as a rite

14:16

of passage interestingly in a culture that

14:18

that seems to have lost connection with

14:20

the whole importance of a rite of passage again

14:22

especially for a young man and

14:24

so you know i i would love to see

14:26

more american hunters who are already

14:28

gone on hunting anyways you know when it when it when

14:30

of you know a boy and and sometimes

14:33

a girl is your twelve or thirteen or fourteen

14:35

years old been able to weave some of

14:37

these practices the you discovered and and kind

14:39

of woven into the practice sacred owning into

14:41

their hands you know do it would be very cool

14:43

to to tennessee you know that the

14:46

the modern western hunting begin to

14:48

incorporate some of these practices but in

14:50

i know what will get into what's the most practices

14:52

are of but i want to get

14:54

back to ah to prison

14:57

other , something out of mass new you love to

14:59

talk about but what happened in prison that that

15:01

kind of got you interested in in

15:04

hunting or some the thought processes

15:07

that eventually developed behind your your

15:10

so called sacred hunting experience

15:14

yeah so my experience in prison

15:17

was really a perfect

15:21

the very fertile ground for me

15:23

to explore my

15:26

the relationship to myself

15:28

my sense of sovereignty

15:30

my perspective on

15:33

on an outlook on challenges

15:35

and things like that in viktor

15:38

frankl has viktor really beautiful

15:40

quotes and i won't try and the

15:43

for be on the basically he says

15:46

the last of the human freedoms as the

15:48

ability to choose your

15:50

mindset no matter the situation and

15:52

he was in a concentration camp

15:55

during the holocaust and he speaks

15:58

in writes about how he

16:00

could maintain this the

16:03

level equanimity

16:06

while in such a challenging

16:08

situation in when i was

16:10

in prison my

16:13

experience was broken

16:15

into two very distinct segments

16:19

the first segment was characterized

16:21

by so much resistance

16:24

i the counted the days

16:27

before i was gonna get out

16:29

i was eating anything

16:31

that was palatable that

16:33

would give me some pleasant sensations

16:35

in unpleasant situation i

16:37

was watching movies to trying to kill time

16:40

counting down the days it was just so

16:42

much resistance i was going on for me

16:45

and there came there came i

16:47

consider to be kind of a rock bottom moment

16:49

where i found out from things

16:51

about you know my family's of family members

16:54

that were going to die before i got out

16:56

of prison the and

16:59

it just struck me

17:01

as being too much and

17:04

i had a moment i cover

17:06

myself up with a blanket i just cried

17:08

in his you know even though this

17:12

the the you so you don't cry

17:14

in prison does have truth to it

17:16

i don't really care that point and

17:19

it was that yeah

17:23

giraffe dick the

17:25

hopeless the moment of despair

17:28

that the other

17:30

side of it was a certain

17:32

level of surrender and

17:35

so the second half of my prison experience

17:37

was characterized

17:39

by surrender it

17:41

was basically my perspective

17:44

was this is where i am and

17:46

i got to do

17:48

everything in my power to make the

17:50

met the both the most of it's and

17:52

as working out you know

17:55

calisthenics reading every single book

17:57

that i could get my hands on i was fast

18:00

the in britain

18:01

the end it and biden by by

18:03

the way that there's some pretty good at prison workout

18:05

manuals out there that you know that us

18:08

i've actually got to see on my bookshelf

18:10

and there's there's some some pretty hardcore work as

18:12

you can do at a very small space

18:14

oh totally and i was using other inmates

18:17

inmates with nicknames like

18:19

cutthroat for example and

18:22

i was doing like bodyweight

18:24

exercises with their body weight on

18:26

top and yeah so there's

18:29

some funny stories about how much like respect

18:32

and status i got that from

18:34

those workouts that i did but in an idiotic

18:36

got a call my take on the i like the i was

18:38

was was the one book by to when the first ones

18:40

that exists in it was it was convict conditioning

18:43

convict think was named that initial manual yeah

18:45

yeah and man got me he got

18:47

me a nickname doctor and

18:49

professor because they were like so

18:53

enthusiastic , how much i knew about

18:55

bodyweight activities and things like that on

19:00

the whole what it did was it almost

19:02

gave me a scientific experiment

19:06

oh what my mind

19:08

is capable as here's the same

19:11

environmental conditions and you

19:13

got that baseline experience in

19:15

prison on the one side i

19:17

have what resistance

19:19

struggle the and

19:22

scarcity looks like and on the other

19:24

side i have what does

19:27

abundance sovereignty

19:29

agency feel like

19:31

an ever since

19:34

then i have certain

19:37

added confidence in myself in

19:40

where in is that no matter what

19:43

the happens in my life i always

19:45

have

19:47

the opportunity to take responsibility

19:49

and make the best of it

19:51

and yell people in

19:54

learn the at intellectually

19:57

they might get up this podcast is point out the

19:59

first time that they were the her that's

20:01

but having such a visceral

20:03

experience it

20:05

makes it much easier for me to embody

20:07

that wisdom

20:09

uh-huh yeah yeah now know you

20:11

been hunting before you went to prison

20:13

no i hadn't been hunting and

20:15

in fact i had not been

20:17

hunting basically until

20:20

i was twenty six

20:22

twenty seven years old or even

20:24

though my father was an avid hunter

20:26

as a child i didn't even know

20:29

he hunted for his his

20:31

childhood that do that yes

20:34

emilio trauma that was in his family

20:36

so there was a new practice that

20:38

came to me after

20:41

yeah yeah my eye out of

20:44

bringing in north idaho gonna make

20:46

some people think that people grew

20:48

up with a rifle in my hands like most of

20:51

the ice the north idaho rednecks his

20:53

eyes grew up with did but honestly

20:55

i'd my dad was from miami and my mom was from

20:57

detroit now from kind of grew up in a big city

21:00

family in family rural area and

21:02

yeah we and yeah kind of gotten the like

21:04

you know teams made shot of rattlesnakes

21:07

and and going out after rabbits with twenty

21:09

twos and you know eventually

21:11

went went on a couple of of whitetail

21:13

deer hunts you know it without thirty out

21:15

six you know by the time i was about fourteen

21:18

or fifteen years old by never never

21:20

really formerly learn to have my dad

21:23

was name to and i went with a couple my dad's friends

21:25

a few times in this and if you're

21:27

my it's my initial hunts was

21:29

when i was like cost like thirty years

21:31

old i'm like dude i'm annie i i live

21:34

in an area that's got tons of amazing

21:36

hunting and and wonderful

21:38

that areas to actually go out and harvest

21:41

and anemone at you know eventually bought a hunting rifle

21:43

and went out after whitehill actually and

21:45

on the when i little now i live on ten acres

21:47

of eastern washington and why

21:49

i bought this a bridge because

21:52

i initially had ask permission to

21:54

hunt on it and i just fell in love with the area

21:56

in and every time i want her to hans i saw

21:58

the spot where as like now the

22:00

dollar home right there and i actually

22:02

offered the guy a guy who

22:04

own this ten acres i'd money

22:07

to just like by his land and wanna buy and

22:09

ten acres for like ninety thousand bucks

22:11

and eventually i built this house on

22:13

at night i still hunt down i

22:24

i i i i

22:29

i i

22:34

a i

22:42

i i on

22:50

on his property with a you tube video

22:53

pulled up on how to how to feel dress

22:55

and got an animal and was

22:57

just basically out there for an ungodly parents

22:59

had to be like five hours to to do my

23:01

first field dressing of a of a whitetail declared

23:03

no clue what i was doing but wound

23:05

up eventually i'd come home with me and

23:08

of in the ever since then he

23:10

i'm like i mentioned i'm going out a few times a

23:12

year by yeah didn't really grow up as much

23:14

of a hunter myself did despite

23:16

being an area where people on all the

23:18

time so i'm anyways

23:21

i'm yeah you got out of prison and where and

23:23

where i were to hunting begin to enter

23:25

into the scene for well

23:28

though if you remember when i when

23:30

i talk about going to present one of the things that

23:32

came up with the ceiling of not

23:35

being fit enough especially as

23:37

it relates to relationships

23:39

with women and what

23:41

occurred to me after

23:44

i came out of prison was

23:47

in the

23:49

especially today this kind of

23:52

then it could have a hole in terms

23:54

of what does it actually

23:56

mean to be a man and what

23:58

does it mean to her healthy

24:01

role model for masculinity

24:04

because

24:06

my my father was physically

24:08

present and he did the best that he could

24:10

but there was a lot of things that he

24:12

didn't teach me and

24:15

are our ancestors

24:18

they never had like one

24:21

male figure as the

24:23

only way to learn about masculinity

24:26

it was all the uncles who was all the grandfather's

24:29

and so i personally

24:31

and i believe a lot of western

24:33

society and ,

24:36

for sure really aren't

24:38

models you know what is

24:40

what healthy integrated

24:42

masculine role model and

24:45

where the practices that allow

24:47

us to practice that

24:50

ah that those virtues that are related

24:52

to masculinity and you know

24:54

sports bring out some things which is

24:57

good and and good great a

24:59

great start but there's a lot more like

25:01

rites of passage as etc

25:03

that we miss and so miss

25:05

didn't realize this or realize couldn't verbalize

25:08

this at the time but that

25:10

wound around masculinity

25:14

led me to start

25:16

seeking

25:17

the cool practices where i

25:19

could actually start to embody

25:23

masculine traits and

25:25

i'm not talking about you

25:28

know what are considered

25:30

yesterday typically like macho masculine

25:33

traits but traits mean the actually

25:36

embodying

25:39

there are certain set of bike virtues

25:41

that that are very masculine

25:43

nature and i'm sure people listen to this

25:45

have experienced man where they feel

25:48

like wow this guy has different is clearly

25:51

a masculine and the bees

25:53

and so

25:55

they did you get through a bunch of combat

25:57

sports and hunting

26:00

the come on my radar after i saw

26:02

some of your hands actually in

26:05

started to

26:08

bring my interest garner my interests

26:10

and for a mushroom my life i've

26:12

always been

26:14

guided by what is

26:17

calling me so to speak and for whatever

26:19

reason and thing was something that

26:21

was interesting it was something that was

26:24

new and foreign but it

26:26

definitely have resonated on

26:28

many levels and so i

26:31

that then in said yes to

26:34

go hunting and year ,

26:36

of my experience in prison i couldn't use

26:38

a gun so it actually

26:40

set me up to be about

26:43

hunter

26:44

right away which is not only was challenging

26:46

but made it far more intentional

26:49

, meaningful as well yeah i

26:51

think that bow hunting and i am month

26:53

spend too long unpacking that's because i've said

26:55

it before and podcast is kind of lights

26:58

the i is it's almost like a spear phishing

27:00

equivalent of fishing in i get super

27:02

board fishing out of a boat or fishing from shore

27:04

yet when i put on a wet suits

27:06

or even just a speedo and your tires await

27:08

said around my belt and dive into

27:10

the water with a swing done and

27:12

actually get down there with the feces and

27:15

your your cold and it's physical and

27:17

your your marks close to the animal

27:19

and it seems like it takes a lot more physicality

27:22

and almost skill to get in there and

27:24

and find the fish and duck under rocks and

27:26

and and get intimately connected

27:28

with your breasts and the cold and

27:30

yell and and and were to actually dive

27:33

when you compare that to see like rifle

27:36

hunting or firearms on things vs bow

27:38

hunting it's very similar i love the physicality

27:40

of at the fact that you have to get closer to the animals

27:42

a little bit more of us a fair fight so

27:44

to speak there's more i'm tracking

27:47

and sense covering and when

27:49

detecting and camouflaged

27:51

as required for a bowl haunts you

27:53

have to your in my opinion

27:56

practice more than half the price of the firearm

27:58

you know enter or the of

28:00

your both siding and you're set up and being

28:03

able to shoot as at an ethical yardage

28:05

and i just i selma with the bow when

28:07

i switch to bow hunting and actually what got me into

28:09

switching depaul hunting wasn't really any

28:11

of that it was the fact that one of my buddies started

28:14

this organization called trained to hunt which

28:16

is based like also horse racing with a weapon

28:18

where you are like

28:20

running up the hill with a heavy backpack

28:22

on and like crawling under barbed wire

28:24

and then doing these these sandbag

28:27

lists and then firing at a target and

28:29

then you're putting your backpack back

28:31

on and and run into the next target and

28:33

and shooting under pressure and

28:35

they call that that the oscar course part

28:37

of the competition and then there's was called the meat

28:39

path part which is supposed to simulate getting

28:42

your animal out of the mountains and

28:44

so you put like a hundred pounds in a backpack as a

28:46

four mile race over the mountains and then

28:49

they also have what's called a three days you were

28:51

you know you're you're spending about four to five hours

28:54

weaving through the forest where they've hidden all these

28:56

different targets and you know your with other

28:58

competitors and you're taking shots at yale

29:00

forty yards or six yards or sometimes

29:02

it hurts shooting straight up into the trees

29:04

are sometimes you're doing a shot where you gotta lights

29:07

draw lunging and then stands to shoot

29:09

are drawn kneeling and stand to shoot or perhaps

29:11

you have to draw and then rotate

29:14

around and swivel your entire body

29:16

and shoot at something that that's austere lasts

29:19

and it so i entered into one

29:21

of these competitions having never actually

29:23

both hunted before and

29:25

trained a ton for this competition

29:27

and our to have sickness writers are like a triathlete

29:30

in our school course racer and and so i just

29:32

had this had to figure out how to shoot night yeah

29:34

i train and i trained my train added these

29:36

competitions and i wound up doing

29:38

like like a dozen others

29:40

trained on competitions and it wasn't

29:42

until after my third one that i actually

29:44

went hunting with a bow

29:46

and fortunately like i was super successful

29:48

my first hunt cause i just been practicing so

29:51

much shooting when gas shooting

29:53

under pressure ya hauling holy

29:55

need begin comfortable with my when my backpack

29:58

set up but your initially the

30:00

for me ill i just kind of started

30:02

shooting about like a d competitions and

30:04

then transfer that over and a hunting

30:06

and since then like i just i haven't been interested

30:09

in fire i'm hunting much at all although

30:11

i did just get for christmas one

30:13

of those are some like a crossbow

30:15

but it's basically told an air gun and it's a

30:17

it's a rifle with the scope

30:19

that suits arrows and

30:21

it'll it'll it spits out our like four hundred

30:23

fifty five fps so super

30:26

powerful gone it's legal for big

30:28

game hunting in some states like

30:30

might make i'm actually planning a do my l

30:32

can't in idaho this year

30:34

with that rifle i'm out

30:37

down the police so i'm

30:39

i'm going to do little hybrid firearm arrow

30:41

hunt this year in addition to the hunt

30:43

i'm gonna do with you don't know why

30:46

but yeah i'd i also didn't initially

30:48

start with a bow and and eventually can burn eyes idling

30:50

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so you got into bow hunting and then where

33:55

where did the where did the the sacred

33:57

hunting part of this begin to fit into the center

33:59

for it well a

34:02

it started to sit in accidentally

34:06

in my experience of it's

34:08

my spiritual teacher says you know

34:11

the the plants shows you

34:14

in they'll make more sense as i describe it that's

34:16

basically a month before

34:18

i went hunting i was already practicing

34:21

with a bow i knew it was gonna be pretty challenging

34:23

because our tree is

34:26

far more of a commitment then

34:28

a rifle and i

34:30

didn't mean for this to happen but i scheduled

34:33

a weeklong i

34:35

oh oscar retreat

34:37

that was with a close group of

34:40

men so the men's retreat

34:42

using i was get and

34:45

in some of those ceremonies

34:48

i had really profound

34:51

the insights around not

34:54

just the intellectual

34:57

the heart of killing an animal which

34:59

i knew that i was gonna do and and justifications

35:01

for why i'm gonna do it

35:03

the really feeling

35:06

the magnitude what

35:08

it means to take the life

35:11

of a sense yeah being the

35:14

and especially one added

35:17

magnificent as a

35:19

deer as you know from hunting

35:22

the dear are far more

35:25

social than we give them credit for their

35:27

far more

35:29

the have more mannerisms they they

35:31

show you know more play

35:33

said we give them credit for their in a lot

35:36

of ways they're a lot like us and

35:40

in been that likeness

35:42

and and then being

35:44

on i oscar and seeing the

35:47

the animal in , mind's

35:50

eye just thinking about the fact i

35:52

was gonna kill it i

35:54

started to weep then

35:58

really really and of

36:00

mourn the

36:03

kitchen that i felt between this is

36:05

something that i have to do this is something that

36:07

is just a

36:09

that the same time this is something that is

36:11

sad and i grieve

36:14

the loss of this animal

36:16

and someone once told

36:19

me that the

36:21

things that are sacred or the

36:23

thing is that poll at our heart strings

36:25

and that tension of needing

36:28

to kill that ceiling

36:30

a deep sense of sorrow of

36:33

tilt of killing is

36:35

really what brings what

36:37

lot of that sacredness into at and

36:39

so i went through this i

36:42

want to experience and the

36:44

first time the my life i actually

36:46

had a relationship to higher power

36:49

that i cells and ask

36:51

for guidance and and thought

36:53

some support on the hunt and

36:56

when i went hunting basically

36:59

the exact thing that i asked for

37:02

aim true and say there was

37:05

some people are closing of a loop in that

37:07

and it all

37:09

i came together to really

37:12

shape hunting as not

37:14

only just a hobby

37:16

or pastime to

37:19

a to you know do something pragmatic

37:21

or utilitarian in my life but

37:24

a spiritual practice there's

37:26

a quote the way that you do one thing

37:28

is the way that you do everything and

37:32

for me

37:33

i as i have explored hunting

37:36

it kinda became a portal

37:38

to a relationship with a higher

37:40

power and you can have a spiritual

37:42

practice that includes everything

37:44

i mean literally there's a book then in the art

37:46

of motorcycle maintenance you could turn

37:49

motorcycle maintenance into a spiritual practice

37:52

my argument then i found this

37:55

to be true my experience is that

37:57

hunting is care the original one

38:00

that's the thing that we've been doing since before

38:02

we were even

38:04

species and in

38:07

so it's very deeply embedded in

38:09

as to have an openness to

38:11

treating it like a spiritual right yeah

38:14

tell me about your first time

38:16

well my first hunt was in texas

38:18

and it was a i helped you

38:21

get that set up through a mutual friend

38:23

mark worn key and

38:26

basically i was hunting

38:28

for black box antelope

38:30

and whitetail in the texas hill

38:32

country in ,

38:35

first time that it had snowed in

38:38

it was in it know bow hunting

38:40

is just so hard for

38:42

especially for a beginner so i took be probably

38:44

four days and even

38:47

if i it wears

38:49

clothes and as to an animal to

38:51

take a shy it wasn't the right shots

38:54

the animals were in my view they were close

38:56

enough sense says getting some

38:59

getting some guidance there as

39:01

far as went to to take a good shot

39:03

and not but on the final day

39:06

i had an opportunity and

39:08

by shot a black but the antelope

39:10

straight to the heart

39:13

yeah what boxer got the data that's a

39:15

very beautiful there are other

39:18

the the black like i did some yeah

39:21

well people could probably a google image when

39:23

it looks like but the or the rack is like

39:25

the this big us on

39:27

how you describe it months all it's like a spirally

39:30

single i'm almost like a

39:32

a unicorn like protrusion

39:34

you know getting there's two of them on as blackbuck deer and

39:37

the in the whole top is black and the bottom is why

39:39

it's a very very cool looking animal

39:41

i'm so it sounds like you had a you're a good

39:43

ethical clean shot and a

39:45

good

39:47

yeah absolutely and i mean a eat out

39:49

at experience was

39:51

it was really pivotal the pivotal

39:54

for me as i the

39:56

wet to do another i was scary

39:59

treat with the given of that antelope

40:01

and really started to explore

40:04

my relationship with das and

40:06

so many other topics

40:09

of my why's that

40:11

witnessing that dance and being a part

40:14

of it brought up for me up

40:16

but over time i really started you

40:18

the as

40:20

such an incredible catalyst in

40:22

my life in the way that i use

40:25

at myself and and masculinity of course

40:27

which is how i went down that route but also

40:30

my relationships nature or relationship

40:33

the higher power my relationship which

40:35

you know by the way in most indigenous cultures

40:38

and even in christianity depending

40:40

on how you look at it you know connections

40:43

in nature or was their

40:45

relationships a higher power so anyone

40:47

who's listening to this is else maybe

40:49

little skeptical about what higher power

40:51

means or god or wherever the cases

40:54

it it so often simply

40:56

just a deep connection

40:59

to nature and that was one of the many things

41:01

that i that i got from that experience

41:04

well you know that does the bible says that

41:06

god reveals himself to us through nature

41:08

and i do like some of the most profound experiences

41:10

i've had praying to god or speaking

41:12

yacht or was in a god have indeed been when

41:14

surrounded by the off of nature

41:17

whether under a waterfall or in the forests

41:19

or even just under a giant tamarack you know near my

41:21

home and i know that many people say that

41:23

they they feel the spine worshipping god and

41:25

nature unless the only thing they need to find god

41:28

and i i tend to differ with that opinion

41:30

i i think that that god has called

41:32

us to be in communion with other people in and fellowship

41:34

with other people and and that's sharing

41:36

religious experiences and sharing worship

41:39

in this taking of communion or the scene

41:41

of songs as one might do on a sunday morning

41:43

it's hurts are also interval parts of

41:46

of deepening your connection with god

41:49

in your experience with god yeah i think

41:51

that that these nature experiences are

41:53

certainly something that are

41:56

our form it is and i would argue even necessary

41:59

for really true the experiencing god

42:01

and in all of his completeness now

42:03

of the the the one thing that you said that

42:05

i didn't quite understand so i've out imagine

42:08

maybe so my listeners wouldn't really understand and

42:10

i love you explain what you mean by that you said you took

42:12

the skin of that first animal

42:14

that you hunted and then you winter didn't i asked

42:16

a ceremony with that what does that even mean

42:19

well it , a freak

42:21

out a lot of my friends but basically i

42:24

i took in a gun tan the

42:26

hired side took the it's the

42:28

hide from this black book antelope that

42:30

i hunted and i actually left

42:32

the head on so many

42:35

people might might see a skin

42:37

from an animal in it and it just looks like

42:40

kind of a , well

42:42

this is a little bit different because it's still

42:44

has the head with the ears with

42:46

the nose and all that stuff stuff

42:49

flat it you know it's just that the

42:51

skin but it it's it

42:53

, together and so

42:55

i took that afterwards finished

42:58

tanning and i went down to mexico

43:01

i'd again i didn't plan for their side it's

43:03

already had another i asked to retreat

43:05

planned and went down to mexico and

43:07

i sat for a week and i

43:10

had so much

43:12

come up for me around das that

43:15

i was in i was reading books like

43:17

the denial of death by ernest

43:19

becker i was reading

43:22

yeah when breath becomes the air which is about

43:24

at a surgeon who is basically

43:27

diagnosed with brain cancer and so he right as

43:29

book i read a book a long time

43:31

as beautiful

43:32

beautiful block and and there's so there's just a lot

43:34

of are a lot around gas and i want to

43:36

use really

43:38

the new and with the

43:40

the spirit of this animal that i had

43:42

killed the with with oscar

43:45

and so i took the skin and i put

43:47

it next to me during the ceremony and

43:50

multiple times our just you know open

43:52

my eyes when i was in the middle of ceremony and i would

43:54

just have this animal looking

43:56

back at me that i had killed and i would

43:58

remember that experience it

44:00

was a very very profound relating

44:04

to the spirit of that animal

44:07

the dress or so , he

44:09

in terms of all is all these

44:11

books that you've read your experience

44:13

with plants medicine medicine your

44:15

experience with god and

44:18

at this exploration that you've taken into

44:20

hunting as you as you've gone

44:23

through after you've gone through that ego dissolving

44:25

rite of passage type of experience in prison

44:28

i would love to get into a little bit

44:30

of the nitty gritty now that the

44:32

the the boots on the street so to speak in terms

44:34

of what a sacred hunting

44:36

experience actually looks like what's a summer's listening

44:39

into this and and name is it sounds kinda

44:41

like to browse get you know

44:43

who who have been either smoking weed are doing

44:45

i was guy talking about hunting deer and

44:48

and and they're they're curious how this actually flushes

44:50

itself out like what is an actual sacred

44:52

hunting experience look like so

44:55

am i mean and and i haven't been on one of your hans

44:57

i can't say that's that i've actually

44:59

done what you might call a sacred hunt

45:01

though i certainly you know one want to harvest an

45:03

animal when my sons and i are person animals

45:06

we pray over it and and we thank

45:08

god you know him and we were

45:10

you know as as we still dressed the animal is

45:12

a very very sacred and reverent experience

45:14

was actually not a lot of lotta joking

45:17

or you know like you like you

45:19

cannot the esophagus and hole in the liver out and tossing

45:21

a garbage bag in the yemen and

45:23

just get my hands bloody and and not really pondering

45:26

the deep significance of having taken having life

45:29

nor on the is

45:31

do nor do the

45:33

necessarily eat that animal or piece that

45:35

animal later on and not acknowledge

45:38

you know the as the a prayer and gratefulness

45:40

about the animal and the dogs that lies that was

45:42

taken yet i would i would

45:44

love to hear you actually

45:46

detail what this sacred hunting experience

45:48

actually looks like like let's say somebody is

45:51

going to join in with you and i and

45:53

and go hunting and why with us because we're

45:55

unaware actually opening up the sun's to deter

45:57

any my listeners who want to join

46:00

in on on the hunt that you and i are gonna do

46:02

or some of the other hunch that you organize

46:04

to walk me through what what a

46:06

sacred hunting experience actually looks like

46:09

when it when someone shows up cause i know you even

46:11

things like fasting and

46:13

i'm an end in certain

46:15

practices that both before

46:17

and after the hunt that allow it to be

46:20

more deeply meaningful but i would love

46:22

to hear you unpack how it actually goes yeah

46:25

well

46:26

the away the things that i'm

46:28

really a proponent of is

46:31

just adding everybody

46:34

feel that they can create

46:36

intentionality and sacredness within their own

46:38

has own has self's by no means

46:41

to i think that i'm the only ones who can

46:43

kind of creed the container i'll share some of the

46:45

things i do that really

46:48

the court the the

46:50

creation of of the sacred elements

46:52

in one of those things is just the

46:55

engine and really

46:58

taking the time

47:01

you you prepare

47:03

in a way that create

47:06

at a meeting to the

47:08

process of killing an animal you're

47:10

one of the reasons why archery

47:12

is so much more

47:14

fulfilling for people is because

47:17

when you practicing

47:19

every single day with

47:22

multiple arrows the

47:24

i like to say that each arrow that

47:26

i send

47:27

the prayer for that animal because

47:30

in that moment i'm putting all

47:32

of my awareness of my attention on

47:34

this one arrow in the the intention

47:36

of this arrow is to be accurate

47:39

so then i can kill

47:41

an animal ethically in

47:44

the same is true

47:45

or maybe of the practices that

47:48

i invite men on sacred hunting trips even

47:50

if they're using a rifle which oftentimes

47:52

i recommend for first time hunter just

47:54

for ethical purposes you

47:57

know they can go through

47:59

fasting i'll i'll have people fast

48:01

for twenty four to seventy two

48:03

hours the week before they come on

48:05

a hot i'll have people are utilized

48:08

as incentives practices for a week

48:11

before they come on the hype and

48:13

all of these things

48:15

what you mean absence practices like somewhere

48:17

to do well for example is of

48:19

my wife and i will sometimes

48:21

gonna couples retreat where we

48:24

will do plant medicine together

48:26

as together as a way to deepen our connectivity

48:28

as a couple and and sit in a different space

48:31

or can like an altered state of consciousness

48:33

together and and as the time when a lot of times

48:35

wealth will make family plans and business

48:37

plans and personal plans and typically there's

48:39

three or four days carved out afterwards first

48:42

and journal and continue to to

48:44

pray and talk and go on long walks

48:46

but typically for we're going into that's like

48:48

you know we don't have our evening glass of

48:50

wine we often switch to a kind

48:52

of like cleaner more plant based

48:55

diet we avoid anything like you know

48:57

marijuana or any other substances

48:59

in in in sort of what one called the

49:01

eta is is that what you're saying that that leading

49:03

into someone's showing up or sacred had to experience

49:06

that's your you're recommending

49:08

to them certain practices that they

49:10

would engage in from an absence temple

49:13

exactly yeah okay so many

49:15

the practices specifically come

49:17

from different indigenous

49:20

peoples so you know for example

49:22

there are tribes like the cherokee

49:25

that might include abstinence

49:28

from any kind of sexual activity

49:30

activities specifically in

49:33

, to honor the animal

49:36

says giving up this source

49:38

of pleasure for

49:41

the intention of honoring the

49:43

animals at below the same is true

49:45

for the fasting practices giving

49:47

up this this the nourishment

49:50

and pleasure in order

49:53

to have to be grateful

49:55

for

49:56

that which comes from the death of an

49:58

animal and so very similar

50:00

to what you described with your partner

50:02

and very similar to the

50:04

for those who have done i was go there is

50:06

the director which is kind of a a is

50:09

literally die in spanish but it's

50:11

is a set of practices a way of eating

50:14

away at behaving before doing

50:16

i'll ask us which has

50:18

practical value to purify

50:21

the body before using the substance

50:23

but it also has the purpose of

50:26

really during the

50:28

intention for going

50:30

into the i was experience and i think

50:32

it's that it it of itself

50:35

is one of the reasons why ios guys so

50:37

powerful for people because you

50:40

know you can do you can totally

50:42

do i watch got and

50:45

you're in a somewhat not

50:48

necessarily a party environment by oh a less

50:50

intentional setting

50:52

oh well we'll see what it's like molly right

50:54

you could pop molly at a rave or

50:56

you could um take 'em

50:59

dna and sit with your partner

51:01

for six hours in a deep and meaningful conversation

51:04

right it is all set and setting

51:05

exactly yes and so we

51:07

we want to start the intention

51:10

and we want to start the sacredness of

51:12

the experience before

51:15

they even show up in

51:17

person with each other and so that's what a lot

51:19

of that a instruction comes from the

51:21

second pieces i really want

51:24

to encourage people me

51:26

in particular to you

51:29

find away

51:32

or start to create the connection

51:34

both with the animal in with nature

51:36

before they arrive and so everybody

51:39

who comes on a secret hunting experience

51:41

i actually send them a special

51:43

gift i won't name

51:45

exactly what that is so keep the surprise but

51:47

basically there's an opportunity for

51:49

them and their specific instructions for

51:51

them to go

51:54

out block off some time no

51:56

phones no distractions know nothing

51:58

and and and said i'm in nature

52:01

and that is during

52:04

this conversation that

52:07

they're going to be having between

52:09

themselves and nature and before

52:11

they arrived so there's a lot that goes into

52:14

the of them the comic

52:17

the and the just the just the

52:19

whole preparation and honestly you know people

52:21

who are coming from other places etc

52:23

like it's a journey literally as a journey

52:26

the beach traveling to hunt the

52:28

good old the even just practical

52:30

thing situated like guns

52:32

rifles in l a canister

52:34

join because hunt just interrupt real

52:37

quick from logistical standpoint our hunting

52:39

scheduled in august right

52:41

on molokai youre august okay

52:45

and by the way all put all the details at ben greenfield

52:47

fitness dot com slash sacred hunting

52:49

podcast thats ben greenfield fitness dot com

52:51

slash sacred hunting podcast

52:54

those want join want join reason were releasing

52:56

this podcast at the time that youre hearing is

52:58

because i think you know if

53:01

someone's let's say you've never shot

53:03

a bow and and the like and

53:05

, this is your very very first

53:07

time i think you need at least three

53:10

months of daily shooting practice

53:12

to really get yourself up to like a

53:14

like a decent thirty to fifty yard shot

53:17

a what we would be hunting access

53:19

deer which tend to be you know pretty quick widely

53:21

animals and and you know they they

53:23

kind of jump when you shoot them so you gotta you

53:25

know in my opinion gotta aim a little bit low and you're

53:27

shooting vitals on and access at least in my experience

53:30

of of harvested a for a

53:32

access deer and a almost all of

53:34

them i've always aimed always little bit

53:36

low because they seem to hear that arrow

53:38

coming off the string and they kinda like leap

53:40

kinda like bit a and and

53:42

i i'll i'll ask you this momentarily

53:44

months old but ah i think you've got the opportunity

53:46

people to hunt firearm as well but regardless whether

53:49

it's firearm or bow i think any at least three months of

53:51

practice but then as you were just describing

53:53

months old it is a journey like you gotta buy a bookcase

53:56

right you got to you you need

53:58

to get a gs a friendly you

54:00

need to be able to take

54:02

your bow down and put it back together and

54:04

and actually it's put it's ya the

54:06

judge check it in and get on the plane

54:08

and then fly down there and so

54:10

yeah there there's there's a lotta logistical aspect

54:13

like when i use race triathlon yeah

54:15

raising an iron man is one thing the getting your bike

54:17

and your wetsuit and shoes and your dear

54:19

and your food to the event is is all whole different

54:22

experience and of itself yeah totally and

54:24

and that's all sort of they say

54:26

when you do it in the the pasta meditation

54:28

retreat the moment that you sign

54:31

your journey begins and the

54:33

same is true for on t experience

54:36

secret or not if you've really are

54:38

intentional about it then it starts

54:41

the moment that you decide that you're going to commit

54:43

to that kind of a practice

54:45

though once we get into

54:48

the actual container of sager hunting in

54:50

a we're all in person or

54:52

again if someone is doing this by themselves

54:55

there's

54:56

there's a few things that i think it really

54:59

makes the container the

55:03

and sacred as can possibly beach one

55:05

is the very

55:09

each respective relationship

55:11

to the practice of

55:13

of what's being done and that can mean

55:15

taking some time to

55:18

yeah thanks though lands and

55:20

i often bring tobacco and

55:23

have a moment where myself and

55:25

of the participants say a prayer

55:27

thanking the land asking permission

55:30

from the lands to be there so to certain

55:32

act of humility even though

55:34

we humans think that you know we

55:37

own savings and we

55:39

dominate land in a lot of ways and

55:41

ellis police in the western contexts

55:43

my my spiritual teacher says his

55:46

home

55:47

basically the land chose him

55:49

to pay the taxes that how he views

55:51

us and so here we

55:53

come here we really relate to nature

55:56

in humility understanding

55:58

that there there's

56:01

things that can happen accidents all kinds

56:03

of things and so we're asking

56:05

permission and were asking for safety

56:07

etc by the way to interrupt you just

56:10

real quick how many people

56:12

usually unilateral yeah usually it's between

56:14

six to eight people that i have offered

56:16

a very intimate i'll usually have two to three

56:18

guys with me as well so use it's like

56:21

one it's too kind of ratio

56:24

right okay got it i saw so you

56:26

show up any you you begin

56:28

by just preparing yourself in terms

56:30

of your relationship with the actual

56:33

earth that that you're hunting upon you and the

56:35

in this case molokai hawaii

56:37

yeah exactly in and that sometimes

56:39

that means also understanding

56:42

the keyboard that were on

56:44

that land beforehand and really

56:46

only paying a tribute to them

56:49

but understanding their practices

56:51

understanding their perspectives and things like

56:53

that because a people is

56:55

shaped by the

56:57

land indigenous the word indigenous

57:00

literally means of

57:03

a place and so you

57:05

know for example on hawaii i

57:07

and connected to his sixties generation

57:10

hawaiian he's got all kinds of amazing

57:12

tattoos and it his name is couple

57:15

on the and he he he he

57:17

shares all of the the culture

57:19

the native hawaiian culture on

57:22

molokai the us you know the sunrise

57:25

singing to the sunrise that was done

57:27

for hundreds of years and we go through

57:29

that whole process and we've learned

57:31

from than what it means

57:34

to relate with that land before

57:37

we even start hunting

57:39

says really important to connect with

57:41

a land and and connect with

57:44

people that were there connect with your own

57:46

sense of gratitude and

57:48

humility and being on that

57:50

specific land wherever that may be yeah

57:53

and and by the way molokai is actually

57:55

one of those places correctness i'm wrong where you

57:57

do not have happened in with a

57:59

local

58:00

to be able to haunt what i've hunted there's a similar experience

58:02

where i had some some friends who

58:04

who frequent that island and also some locals

58:07

who lives there who guided us to answer

58:09

the area you know i was down there of the both on

58:11

both hunting and and spear fishing is is that wonderful

58:13

beautiful experience hunting out there

58:16

amongst everything from young deep

58:18

bogs way back up in the mountains

58:20

to you know beings you're walking along

58:22

the the steep cliffs beside the ocean

58:25

into these these axis dear well there's a lot

58:27

of and they're all over there like i think what what like

58:29

know how many forty thousand or birds or

58:31

moloch as it is forty thousand or twenty thousand

58:34

effort is like twenty two thousand and

58:36

the longer and there's like seven thousand and

58:38

read right right and and

58:40

so it despite there being huge

58:42

herds of axis dear

58:45

it there is a lot of a lot of ambushing

58:47

a lot of waiting behind freezes thirds follow

58:49

their daily migration patterns from the water

58:51

to the open grassland those lot of spotting

58:54

and stockings on preparation you

58:56

know sometimes you're out there for for a few days

58:58

before he actually harvest an animal

59:00

and so so

59:02

you're you're you're out there are you preparing

59:05

arm and you are

59:07

tight kind of setting yourself up as far as the sake

59:09

of relationship with the earth you've

59:11

done a director leading in you've gotten

59:13

all of your equipment to the island of people have

59:15

the option to shoot with either red or firearm

59:18

or about

59:19

yeah we had the option at i always encourage

59:22

people especially complete beginners

59:24

to start with a rifle but people who have been practicing

59:27

who want us here take that

59:29

take the the challenge of doing

59:31

archery that's that's totally fine to

59:34

on molokai it can be really challenging

59:36

because although there are so many animals

59:39

they often are in big herds

59:41

which means that you that a lot of eyeballs

59:43

that can potentially cu which makes

59:45

getting closing the distance

59:48

the be really tricky yeah and

59:50

and so when you're there

59:52

and you are preparing

59:54

on that first day to go out on

59:57

the hunt in the subsequent days what

59:59

else is happening from ceremonial standpoint

1:00:01

of that would be kind of different from

1:00:03

a from a sacred hunting prospectus

1:00:05

yeah so one thing is acknowledging

1:00:09

that there's so many different

1:00:11

themes and there's so much to do so much

1:00:14

value that comes from having these experiences

1:00:16

and specifically having them together

1:00:19

with men a there's a lot

1:00:21

of lot of in western

1:00:23

society where men can

1:00:26

really share authentically

1:00:28

and vulnerably how they are

1:00:30

healing what's going on for them

1:00:33

and so in these sacred honey experiences

1:00:35

i i i respect

1:00:37

his people and so

1:00:40

having the time set aside

1:00:42

to really share

1:00:45

in brotherhood what

1:00:48

is going on in your life

1:00:50

and that could be something that

1:00:52

relates to a partner it could be something

1:00:54

that relates to work whatever that a says

1:00:56

it could be something completely different

1:01:00

, the experience

1:01:02

of hunting but simply

1:01:05

being but simply container

1:01:07

of brotherhood is so powerful

1:01:09

and so healing and again

1:01:12

a very very old say it's

1:01:15

one thing to go hunt by yourself

1:01:17

is another thing to hunt with a tribe

1:01:19

of men just like

1:01:21

our ancestors would have done were were

1:01:23

sitting around we're talking about

1:01:25

our lives we know where their

1:01:27

to to do a job but

1:01:30

there's a sense of connection camaraderie

1:01:32

and more importantly there's a sense that were all

1:01:35

in this together and so on all sacred

1:01:37

hunting trip all

1:01:39

of the need that is brought back

1:01:42

by everybody is split evenly

1:01:44

among everyone that is

1:01:46

a participant on these sites which means

1:01:48

that your i'm rooting for you

1:01:50

to succeed and you're rooting for of this other

1:01:53

person to succeed because your success

1:01:55

is everyone success and you

1:01:58

know there's there's there's

1:02:00

these places in

1:02:02

our world to have that kind of zero

1:02:04

sum brotherhood

1:02:07

involved with another huge know

1:02:10

that to to the sacred hunting trips

1:02:12

right right so so this long or man

1:02:14

and his any any boys like to they did

1:02:16

you getting men the bring their sons are nowadays

1:02:18

it definitely has a man who

1:02:21

have brought their sons liver

1:02:23

king and his son came for their first

1:02:25

time with meets in there's

1:02:27

you know about wide range of

1:02:29

range of of who who bring their

1:02:32

younger sons well

1:02:34

okay okay goddess i'm now

1:02:36

i i realize that we

1:02:39

, do need to be careful from

1:02:41

a legality standpoint talking about

1:02:44

these type of things but i know that many indigenous

1:02:46

cultures will do things like i'm combo

1:02:49

for example the the does frog

1:02:52

of poison in order to

1:02:54

amplify their sensory experience and

1:02:56

their endurance before going out for

1:02:59

a week of hunting you know where where you'll

1:03:01

you'll burn holes in the side

1:03:03

of the arm and literally you know put put

1:03:05

combo on on the burns and kind of

1:03:08

vomit violently for twenty minutes and pass

1:03:10

out and and wake up and you can like a superhuman

1:03:12

for for week or two other

1:03:16

cultures will migrate else was something

1:03:18

like suicide and or or

1:03:21

word or sniff hot day or something like that

1:03:23

prior to like hunt in order to amplify

1:03:25

their sensory perceptions there's

1:03:28

anything like that go on

1:03:30

to any extent as part of this experience

1:03:33

yeah we i definitely brain

1:03:36

multiple plant medicines into

1:03:38

the experience you know that

1:03:40

the word in see again it

1:03:43

mean you you have

1:03:45

a connection to or of

1:03:48

god in severely these indigenous

1:03:50

peoples they did they utilize these

1:03:52

substances to create

1:03:55

a connection to higher power to create obviously

1:03:58

more success on the hunt it's

1:04:01

near considered to be quote unquote hunting

1:04:03

medicine and , i

1:04:05

bring those medicine

1:04:08

into the container of

1:04:10

sacred hunting for a

1:04:12

number of reasons one is to do

1:04:15

you simply have more context

1:04:17

for what it is

1:04:19

to be eighteen

1:04:22

the life of an animal

1:04:23

connecting to because

1:04:26

, often times at least for me

1:04:28

in i live in such a a of

1:04:30

a hectic or or or

1:04:33

city environment lies were

1:04:36

and i'll always have such ready

1:04:38

access to my emotions

1:04:41

and so when i go somewhere and

1:04:43

gonna go hunting there's a part of me that

1:04:46

treats it like it

1:04:48

might

1:04:49

work where i'm from there to get a job done

1:04:52

and the plant

1:04:54

medicines really emphasize

1:04:56

slowing down and

1:04:59

ceiling

1:05:01

what is alive for me in

1:05:03

this moment what is what is it

1:05:05

mean to be taking a life as as animals

1:05:08

and you to feel that

1:05:10

more fully and to see

1:05:12

where you , there's different perspectives

1:05:15

showing up as that can provide

1:05:17

me insights from within

1:05:19

my life and in and vat

1:05:22

that creates an

1:05:24

opportunity for people to people

1:05:27

to transform their

1:05:29

lives the roofs

1:05:32

hunting and that's really in

1:05:34

when i when someone says what do i do i

1:05:37

say i facilitate transformation

1:05:39

hunting plant medicine and ceremony

1:05:42

as they all are tools

1:05:45

that do that but it's really

1:05:47

transformation that we seek

1:05:49

and this plant medicines are critical like

1:05:52

know really in order to providing

1:05:55

that

1:05:55

yeah yeah okay so

1:05:58

someone a heads up with their the i'd

1:06:00

they're out there and molokai their hunting

1:06:02

would say they successfully harvesters

1:06:05

an axis dear once

1:06:08

the animals down or once the

1:06:10

in on the that someone has has all the blood

1:06:12

trail and got into their down into

1:06:14

animal what occurs that is

1:06:16

unique from a ceremonial or a sacred

1:06:18

hunting standpoint a top

1:06:22

so when an animal is

1:06:24

taken off the land

1:06:27

you know there's although we are there

1:06:29

and we're doing a positive thing

1:06:31

for the lake and by by killing these

1:06:33

dear there you know by many accounts

1:06:36

overpopulated on molokai and as

1:06:38

people will find outer kind of hurting

1:06:40

the name foliage and things like that's

1:06:42

were still the taking

1:06:45

an animal for our benefit that is

1:06:47

removing it from the ecosystem from

1:06:50

the family and taking a moment

1:06:52

to

1:06:54

the to be in gratitude is

1:06:56

incredibly important and so you're

1:06:59

like we have tobacco for

1:07:01

expressing our thanks

1:07:04

and asking permission to be on the land

1:07:06

there's also tobacco for killing

1:07:08

an animal and taking that in in we use

1:07:10

the tobacco as kind of an

1:07:12

offering which i'm going to take this anymore

1:07:15

and in return i'm leaving this

1:07:17

tobacco and prayers of

1:07:19

incense nowadays that

1:07:21

list that is animal

1:07:24

is something that we're grateful for and we're

1:07:26

really going to show when and much experience

1:07:29

that gratitude so again

1:07:32

coming back to like slowing

1:07:34

down that is one of the

1:07:36

key components because when

1:07:39

the things move so quickly he'd kill an animal

1:07:42

and than year he you know excite

1:07:44

in high five and married gay and any go

1:07:46

right in their butchering the animals he

1:07:48

just moved roofs you don't allow

1:07:51

any of the the ceilings

1:07:53

in the sensations and introspection

1:07:55

to come through so he had the tobacco

1:07:58

forces a level of of

1:08:00

gratitude and humility and

1:08:02

and also just slows down the process

1:08:05

because there is a very

1:08:07

palpable

1:08:09

feeling that comes

1:08:11

over anybody who experiences

1:08:14

killing an animal and witnessing variants

1:08:18

of having a living animal

1:08:21

and

1:08:21

then passes into a

1:08:24

different form be know it's it's it's

1:08:26

solar spirit whatever you want to call it leads

1:08:28

it's physical body there's

1:08:30

is almost like you

1:08:32

can feel the presence of the

1:08:35

grim reaper for lack of a better term but some

1:08:38

kind of like extra

1:08:40

intergenic feeling that's associated with

1:08:43

that experience and is

1:08:45

a powerful thing if you take the time to

1:08:47

time to experience

1:08:49

yeah very powerful i'd i agree when

1:08:51

i'm on a hunted in hawaii

1:08:54

before i typically because

1:08:57

i always liked to harvest as much about

1:08:59

animals possible mean possible eat nose

1:09:01

to tail and harvest you will deliver the

1:09:04

kidney the hard sometimes even those

1:09:06

the testicles you know pretty much every part of the

1:09:08

animal possible animal have

1:09:10

actually afterwards gone

1:09:13

to have gone to have

1:09:15

local store and persists the

1:09:17

rulers like small cooler bags frozen

1:09:20

all of the parts of the animal that i want

1:09:22

to bring back and then actually checked them

1:09:25

onto the plane and flown back with

1:09:27

the meat which sounds like a lot to go through

1:09:29

but i've never really hadn't much difficulty

1:09:31

with it and typically need to pay about

1:09:33

one hundred to two hundred dollars for extra checked

1:09:36

bags to fly back is that something

1:09:38

that you provide the opportunity for people that

1:09:40

to do or do you simply leave the meet with

1:09:42

the locals

1:09:44

well yeah people would definitely get the

1:09:46

meet at generally speaking it's

1:09:48

really easy to to

1:09:50

, the the men bring

1:09:53

bring cooler with them that empty and

1:09:56

then it's all taken

1:09:58

care of on the island laos island important

1:10:00

that we actually break the whole animal

1:10:02

down so each year will got

1:10:04

it we will skin it will

1:10:06

quarter it out will take you to

1:10:09

meet off and will cook that me and would

1:10:11

eat some of those organs at night

1:10:13

and especially on an island like molokai

1:10:15

which is super remotes one

1:10:18

, the best you know sources of

1:10:21

ooh that there is actually just killing enamel

1:10:23

so we will

1:10:26

it'll be a really important part of the whole process

1:10:29

to to actually go through that and

1:10:31

share that together with all the men

1:10:33

in share an animal that had been alive only

1:10:36

a few hours before and

1:10:39

, anything that is remaining

1:10:42

remaining guides i had some great some

1:10:45

native hawaiians that i know out molokai

1:10:48

who's they take care of a vacuum

1:10:50

sealing and all that kind of south and and

1:10:52

and freezing and and a ship it to

1:10:55

each of us and or

1:10:59

else be in the cool with our a wealth of

1:11:01

alex valle us we separate on yep they got

1:11:03

some can have sex rate so it's

1:11:05

have sex all much less super

1:11:07

convenient wow i've never actually done that that's that's

1:11:09

very nice where are you staying out there are you is

1:11:11

a tent camping is it like a cabin type of scenario

1:11:14

or or what he does have as far as like a lodger

1:11:16

or lodging yeah it's it's

1:11:20

have any type of of

1:11:22

scenario it's it's definitely primitive

1:11:24

you know cooking on us on

1:11:26

our kind of a propane burner and

1:11:28

all that kind of stuff but it yields

1:11:30

quaint but it's it's really peaceful

1:11:33

and really nice you , there's

1:11:35

there's there's no power out there

1:11:37

there's a generator if you needed but you know it's it's

1:11:40

really it's just kind of us a peaceful

1:11:43

nature situation and

1:11:46

the weather there is is the seine

1:11:48

around and really great pretty much so it's

1:11:52

it's don't know no need for air conditioning or

1:11:54

anything like that but

1:11:56

no need to bring tensor anything yeah

1:11:59

now

1:12:00

let me just because you haven't experienced that

1:12:02

is concern amongst hunters to be some the best tasting

1:12:04

wild game meet on the face of the planet

1:12:06

so it it definitely even without

1:12:09

us long marinated or a fancy soulier

1:12:11

and smoker anything like that winds up being

1:12:14

really really great meats and i i

1:12:16

just i love my saw your weaving to go

1:12:18

these indigenous rights and rituals plant

1:12:21

medicine ceremonies a dss

1:12:23

a ceremonial aspect of honoring

1:12:25

the animal and honoring the earth harvesting

1:12:28

the entire animal making sure that the meat

1:12:30

doesn't go to a such as so much different than

1:12:32

whatever head north on some yields

1:12:35

rich efforts and safari to

1:12:37

africa to go bag

1:12:39

, have a rhino and or

1:12:42

you know or or or come back with some condiments

1:12:44

trophy it's different then like i mentioned

1:12:46

earlier in one hundred and we're exploring feeder

1:12:49

in nebraska you know it with a with

1:12:51

a gun in your i phone you know it's just

1:12:54

yet even though i haven't yet gone on this

1:12:56

hunt with you i have to say i'm i'm really

1:12:58

excited to actually experienced

1:13:00

this for myself to to go back

1:13:02

to molokai again into hopefully hopefully

1:13:04

a few podcast listeners along

1:13:07

on the journey i don't

1:13:09

i don't even have the dates in front of me

1:13:11

that we have this experience planned

1:13:13

experience did you have the exact dates in front of you know it's in august

1:13:15

but i i don't have in front of yeah it's

1:13:18

august sixteenth through the night okay

1:13:21

so so its basically three day hunt

1:13:23

meaning someone would probably arrive well

1:13:25

it depends on how if someone want island hop and go

1:13:27

few other places or whatever but basically probably arrive

1:13:29

want the fifteenth and and head back on

1:13:31

twentieth something like that yep exactly

1:13:33

okay or got it well all all

1:13:35

put all the details at ben

1:13:37

greenfield fitness dot com slash

1:13:40

sacred hunting podcast

1:13:43

in terms of the shure know its and everything or you could just

1:13:45

go straight to the sign up for for my hunt with mansa

1:13:47

all at a ben greenfield fitness dot

1:13:49

com slash sacred hunting

1:13:51

or there any details that i of forgotten

1:13:54

ask you about when it comes to things that people

1:13:56

should know about sacred hunting and general

1:13:59

or this particular koreans muzzle

1:14:02

no it it it it really good job of

1:14:04

of covering it but i think that is

1:14:06

really important to for me that

1:14:08

reflect on how much

1:14:12

of an experience the

1:14:14

of transformation that this can be

1:14:17

if you take the time

1:14:19

and you really allow it to be and

1:14:22

you know i i had a phone conversation with a

1:14:24

an israeli guy who came on a hot

1:14:26

with me a cup or basically

1:14:28

last november and it

1:14:31

was one of the most for he said he said

1:14:33

it was the most profound experience

1:14:35

of his life since how

1:14:37

basically other than having his baby girl

1:14:39

and he stops therapy afterwards

1:14:42

and i'm not saying that everyone's going to experience this

1:14:44

but what's really critical

1:14:46

about his story was he recently

1:14:50

a just spoke with a

1:14:52

someone at the farmers' market and went on a

1:14:55

high that was not

1:14:57

sacred he just kind of went in a hog

1:14:59

hunting because he had already done it before

1:15:02

and he said that experience

1:15:04

was so hard for have it

1:15:06

took like four days where it really

1:15:09

kind of add didn't sit well

1:15:12

with him that he

1:15:14

had

1:15:15

the been unable to make it a secret

1:15:17

experience so my

1:15:20

i bring that up is because there is a difference

1:15:23

between hunting and

1:15:25

sacred hunting or

1:15:27

forget my ,

1:15:30

consideration for even call it conscious hunting

1:15:32

or spiritual deer hunting whatever the whatever

1:15:34

you want to call it there's a very

1:15:37

real difference the more that

1:15:39

you invest into that practice

1:15:41

it it doesn't have to be necessarily in my experience

1:15:44

the more you're gonna get out of and i really

1:15:46

encourage people to to tap

1:15:48

into this incredibly ancient

1:15:50

practice for transformation

1:15:53

that so many of us in the modern world

1:15:55

have missed wow

1:15:58

well i'm excited

1:16:00

and the last thing are leave people with

1:16:02

is that like i mention monson wrote

1:16:04

a book that i think would be a good read

1:16:06

for you if you are considering

1:16:08

doing this yourself if your

1:16:10

considering joining us on this hunting if

1:16:12

your considering maybe just taking hunting

1:16:15

that you already do are you plan to do and

1:16:17

weaving sacred hunting components into it that book called

1:16:19

sacred hunting rekindling and ancient spiritual

1:16:21

practice all also put that in

1:16:23

show notes show ben greenville fitness dot com

1:16:25

slash sacred hunting podcast

1:16:28

where you can leave your comments if

1:16:30

comments have questions about logistics things like

1:16:32

that you you can also leave your comments there

1:16:35

a your questions for monson your questions with

1:16:37

read em all and we just love to keep the conversation

1:16:40

going over theres thats all ben greenville fitness

1:16:42

dot com slash sacred hunting

1:16:44

podcast monson glad your not in prison

1:16:46

anymore a a em glad

1:16:48

you youve you put this together i think theres a real

1:16:51

real need for it so thank you and

1:16:53

you and thank you for coming on the show absolutely

1:16:56

ban yeah i appreciate you

1:16:58

being the initial seed that

1:17:00

was planted for me to hunt and

1:17:03

coming full circle and give me the platform

1:17:05

to share it with others and i look forward to us

1:17:08

walk in you through this in

1:17:11

august and or the other people who might participate

1:17:14

so it was

1:17:15

awesome well folks some ben greenfield along

1:17:17

with months old denton sign it out from ben

1:17:20

greenfield fitness dot com the meeting

1:17:22

week

1:17:27

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1:17:29

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1:17:42

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1:17:44

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1:17:47

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1:17:49

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1:17:51

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