0:00

My name is Ben Greenfield, and on this episode

0:02

of the Ben Greenfield Life podcast.

0:04

When you have one of these non healing wounds,

0:06

you inject the stem cells you lay

0:08

down new collagen, you lay down

0:11

new regularly formed

0:13

blood vessels, and then you grow skinner.

0:15

It's the same concept if

0:17

you've got low back pain or neck

0:20

pain or hip or joint pain. Whatever

0:22

it is, Those joint surfaces

0:24

are like chronically irritated. We inject

0:26

the stem cells, tricks your body

0:28

into thinking that you've undergone a new injury,

0:31

launching the body's natural healing cascade

0:33

without actually having caused any tissue

0:35

damage, you get all the benefit of healing

0:37

response without actually having men

0:39

injured. Faith,

0:45

family. Fitness, health,

0:48

performance, nutrition, longevity,

0:51

ancestral living, biohacking, and

0:54

a whole lot more. Welcome to the

0:56

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1:02

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2:43

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2:45

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6:33

adults. Hey. So today,

6:35

I got to sit down with the

6:39

mastermind behind one

6:41

of the most fringe biohacking

6:43

protocols for longevity I've ever done.

6:46

This is the guy who's injected every joint

6:48

in my body with stem cells, toe

6:50

to head, genitals, face,

6:53

hair, skin, you name it,

6:55

and he developed this crazy protocol

6:57

called the full body stem cell makeover. We've

7:00

done podcast before about

7:02

that procedure. It's crazy. I'll I'll link

7:04

to it in the show notes if you go to ben greenfield life

7:07

dot com slash dim. That's ben

7:09

greenfield life dot com slash STYM.

7:12

But in this episode, doctor

7:15

Harry Adelson is back

7:18

and we talk about a whole bunch

7:20

of cool things that have happened

7:22

in the stem cell industry of lights

7:25

that you might be unaware of. Like, a lot

7:27

of the reason people have been going over to Europe and

7:29

all this jazz in South America for protocols,

7:31

like, all that has changed, the legal landscape

7:34

has changed, the type of

7:36

stem cells that are available in the way they can be

7:38

modified with things like lasers and crazy

7:40

treatments has changed. So Harry's

7:42

at the cutting edge of all this stuff. So

7:44

I figured I would get him back on the show

7:46

and we had a fascinating chat. I was on the edge

7:49

of my seat during this one. So enjoy

7:51

this show. With doctor Harry Adelson,

7:53

and you're gonna learn a whole lot about old versus

7:55

new stem cells and allogeneic versus autologous

7:58

and the new CSN ruling. And why

8:00

the FTC is now more the regulatory commission

8:02

versus the FDA. And more importantly, how

8:04

this stuff can be used to just absolutely

8:07

crush pain and get you back in action

8:09

and increase longevity and a

8:11

whole lot more. So enjoy this wide ranging

8:14

discussion on stem cells with the

8:16

stem cell, genius himself Dr.

8:18

Harry Allison. Well, Harry,

8:20

we've done a lot of stuff together

8:22

in stem cells. And by a lot of stuff, I mean,

8:24

like, you've gone up and down my whole

8:27

body multiple times with many, many millions

8:29

and billions of stem cells. But

8:31

in the past few months, even since

8:34

the last, you know, full body makeover

8:37

that I did with you apparently, at

8:39

least as far as you've kind of clued me into. There's

8:41

been a lot going on behind

8:43

the scenes in in the whole stem cell

8:45

industry. For better or worse,

8:47

I don't know. But but what exactly is going

8:49

on right now when it comes to stem

8:51

cells, people's access to them, the legal

8:53

regulations, and some of the stuff you want to tell

8:55

me about? Well, there's been a major development

8:58

band. And so first of all, I have to give you the backstory

9:01

for it to make sense mostly

9:03

for your listeners because you know most of this stuff.

9:05

So when I started doing this

9:08

back in two thousand ten, like, there was

9:10

very little attention paid to the stem

9:12

cell industry by the FDA because

9:14

so few people were doing it, and there was

9:17

so little known about it, and we

9:19

were all just kind of learning as we were going.

9:21

And then you worked with Kristin Camelo.

9:23

You remember, Kristen? Yeah. Down down

9:25

Florida. Right. The US Stem Cell Clinic.

9:28

My wife and I had both gone down. Mhmm. She

9:30

was the one really who figured out how

9:32

to isolate stem cells from fat,

9:34

how to process it in the doctor's office

9:36

safely, easily, And so

9:39

she started teaching a lot of doctors, she started

9:41

treating a lot of people. And

9:44

in twenty seventeen, the

9:46

FDA sued her. And

9:48

what that did is it essentially completely

9:50

shut her

9:50

down. I think that was, like, right

9:53

after I went down there

9:54

and had a protocol done. So it was not soon

9:56

after that. It's rumblings about that, how they called

9:58

some flack in their clinic or something like that? Yeah. That's

10:00

right. That's right. So the FDA sued her.

10:02

What they were saying was that stem

10:05

cells from your own body are

10:07

a drug. Mhmm. And

10:09

if there exists anyone

10:11

in the world, that can really convince

10:14

you otherwise. If there's anybody who can really

10:16

explain it in a way to show how

10:18

ludicrous and absurd that

10:19

is, It's Kristen. I mean You mean Laura Kristen?

10:21

I'm sure that they're a drug. Look

10:24

for that because they're from your own body, they should

10:26

be illegal or

10:26

whatever. Mhmm. So The FDA was

10:28

claiming that stem cells from your

10:31

own body is a drug. And

10:33

Kristen, more than anybody is

10:35

the she's the most qualified person

10:37

to really explain how that is just

10:39

completely untrue. Taking stem

10:41

cells from a person's body and preparing

10:43

them for injection resembles

10:46

in no way drug manufacturing.

10:49

Oh, so they thought that

10:50

that, like, if somebody goes in and they

10:52

do like the well, it was almost like

10:54

a like a liposuction thing I did to my bag,

10:57

they tuck the fat

10:57

out, they get the stem cells, that

11:00

that was the equivalent of, like,

11:02

drug manufacturing. Yes. Yes. So they

11:04

were saying, oh, wow. You know, because

11:06

you have to process the fat slightly

11:08

and you have to manipulate it

11:10

somewhat. They were saying that was more

11:12

than minimal manipulation. Hey,

11:14

I drug manufacturer every morning when I pee and

11:16

poo based on that logic. It

11:18

it it makes no sense. So

11:21

Kristen, who's this little, you know,

11:23

Joan of Art, She's -- Mhmm. -- she's tiny,

11:25

but she's just tough as hell. Yeah. She's cool.

11:27

Oh, yeah. I mean, she was actually looking

11:30

forward to her day in court She was

11:32

relishing the whole concept of being able

11:34

to argue her case and go toe to

11:36

toe with the FDA. The

11:38

judge in that case issued

11:41

a summary judgment. And a summary

11:43

judgment basically means

11:46

no trial, you know, in this case, it was

11:48

if the FDA says what you're doing is illegal,

11:51

it's illegal. They get to interpret the

11:53

rules. So no trial

11:55

get guilty. So she was found guilty with

11:58

no

11:58

trial. And she was devastated understandably

12:01

because she didn't get to

12:02

argue her case. Well, what's

12:04

super creepy Kelsey basically being like

12:06

a drug dealer, drug manufacturer without a

12:08

license by just taking people stem cells out

12:10

and about Yeah. Saying that she was drug manufacturer

12:13

assuring a drug that is a non

12:15

FDA approved

12:16

drug. Okay. I don't wanna derail your

12:18

story, but what about because

12:20

think you briefly alluded to this. The

12:22

idea that when you take them out of the body,

12:25

if you do something with them, like

12:28

expand them. That that

12:30

makes them different or could somehow be

12:32

making them into a

12:33

drug. Like, don't you kind of have to do something with

12:35

them to increase mezzanine chymol

12:37

stem cell count or whatever. Well, that's another conversation.

12:40

So what what she was doing is she was

12:42

just isolating the stem cells from fat. Because

12:44

the stem cells are, like, embedded in the fat.

12:46

So you can't, like, give them into someone's

12:48

vein, for instance, because you're gonna put the fat

12:51

in the vein and cause an embolism. There's also

12:53

problem. So, basically, it's just a way to

12:55

tease the stem cells off

12:57

of the fat cells. Okay.

12:59

So, you

13:00

know, there's no exception. Burger of tissue

13:02

and somebody did that liposuction on me. They did

13:04

my wife too. We're both skinny, so it took

13:06

took a while to get enough fat. But

13:08

you can't just take that fat and then hand to somebody

13:11

in in a paper cup and say, okay, here's your stem

13:13

cells. You gotta then isolate the stem

13:15

cells from the fat, and that's what Christian was doing.

13:18

That later was deemed to be

13:20

a criminal offense. Right? It's called enzymatic

13:23

digestion -- Okay. -- soak it in collaginase.

13:26

That loosens it up. You incubate

13:28

it, so you bring it up to body temperature, centrifuge

13:31

it several times, filter it. And then you get this

13:33

nice aqueous solution that is

13:35

loaded with stem

13:36

cells. Okay.

13:37

Alright. Got it. So when that

13:39

happened with Chris and what what happened

13:41

to the rest of the industry? Right. So

13:43

what was super creepy about

13:46

that how that whole thing played out is

13:48

this judge issued the summary judgment.

13:51

And about two or four months

13:53

later, the judge resigned from

13:56

a lifetime appointment as a Federal Circuit

13:58

judge and took a job

14:01

with a stem cell company. What?

14:03

She took a job on the advisory

14:06

board for a stem cell company

14:08

based in South Florida. The

14:10

guy who opened that clinic is the director

14:13

of the Stem Cell Institute at the

14:15

University of Miami. And that's

14:18

the group that called in the complaint against Kristen.

14:21

Oh my

14:21

gosh. It's super crazy. So so the

14:23

STEM well, I I assume the

14:25

STEM solvency in Miami or wherever

14:28

this this person went to work for after

14:30

they made that ruling is

14:32

not doing the same thing Kristen was doing.

14:35

Well, okay. So Otherwise, it's totally the

14:37

the the pot calling the kettle black or however it

14:39

does. Well, so this group, what this

14:42

group this company is doing is they

14:44

are putting a stem cell line through

14:46

the FDA pathway to have it become

14:48

an FDA approved drug. Okay. And that's

14:50

the big issue with stem cells from your own

14:52

body. Done like pharmaceutical money, Tom? Yeah.

14:54

It's it's bot you know, there's all these

14:56

companies that are paying, you know, millions upon

14:58

millions of dollars to go through the

15:00

FDA pathway. And when you use

15:02

cells from your own body, you're sort of just side

15:05

stepping that whole thing. Yeah. And

15:07

that was the issue. And that's

15:10

where Kristen got targeted. But the good

15:12

news is, while that was going on,

15:15

The FDA also sued my

15:17

friends in California, the California

15:19

stem cell treatment institute, the Burmans

15:21

and Elliot Lander. And

15:24

that judge, that trial lasted, you

15:26

know, it went on for like five years.

15:29

The judge in that case just

15:31

issued his ruling, and that's what the big news

15:33

is. That's what we're talking about here. He

15:36

issued in favor of my friends,

15:39

of Sean Berman and Elliot

15:41

Landers. So he actually said, no,

15:44

stem cells from your own body are not

15:46

a drug and you, the FDA,

15:48

have overstepped your

15:49

bounds, because you don't regulate medicine.

15:52

Oh, wow. So it's

15:53

huge -- Huge. -- like -- for instance, could keep

15:56

doing what they were doing.

15:58

Well, Kristen was found guilty

15:59

because

16:00

with that summary judgment.

16:01

So she's gonna have to appeal. And it's

16:03

it's different circuits. The way it works is we have these

16:05

different circuits in the United States that

16:07

are responsible for different territories. And

16:10

the one circuit judge ruled against

16:12

Kristen, this other circuit judge ruled

16:15

for cell surgical network in California.

16:17

So now we have a split judgment. So

16:20

if Kristen wants to appeal its

16:22

it's essentially gonna go to the Supreme Court.

16:24

Oh, wow. Okay. So

16:26

two thousand seventeen to two thousand twenty

16:29

two -- Mhmm.

16:29

-- all this stuff is going on behind the scenes new

16:31

ruling was made just a few months ago.

16:33

Now, during that time,

16:35

probably even before then, a lot of

16:37

people would go overseas to

16:40

have stem cell protocols done or

16:42

feel as though they weren't able to get what they wanted

16:44

to get in the

16:45

US. Does that change any like, what

16:47

what does this do for stem cell procedures, particularly

16:49

in the US? Mhmm. So,

16:51

essentially, what it did like,

16:53

for me personally, it didn't change anything

16:56

as what as far as what I was actually doing.

16:58

It did change my ability to talk

17:00

about it. Oh, because

17:03

you just you you didn't want to

17:05

you know, get on the wrong end of a lawsuit

17:07

from the federal government. And it's not because you were doing

17:09

anything illegal, like, with your full body stem

17:11

cell Well, it was unclear. It was

17:13

unclear. I mean, and it still

17:16

is to some degree. It's a it's a bit of a gray

17:18

area. After Kristen's

17:19

ruling, it seemed like a dark gray area.

17:22

But

17:22

now with this new ruling, I

17:25

feel comfortable talking about it again. Okay.

17:27

Because you did, like, you you did this procedure

17:29

on me

17:29

twice, and I'll I'll link to the other

17:32

podcast that that that we did on

17:34

them and the show notes for this one. But

17:36

you went into my hip

17:38

bones. I know

17:38

you like

17:38

you took a little bit of marrow out and that

17:40

wound up. Going back into

17:43

me. Right? Yeah. So with with

17:45

your treatment, Paul, let you explain. Yeah. With your

17:47

treatment, we did bone marrow. We also

17:49

did stem cells from your blood. The

17:51

VSCLs, which we're gonna talk about later.

17:53

With you, I did not take any fat because you you

17:55

don't have any fat,

17:56

bro. Yeah. So we we skipped that

17:58

part. Yeah. So, yeah, we did bone marrow combined

18:01

with the VSCL from the blood.

18:02

So, technically, a judge

18:04

could have ruled that you were turning my

18:06

own tissue into drugs and inject

18:09

Well, not so not so much

18:11

with Kristen. Not so much with the bone marrow

18:13

because the bone marrow is considered safe.

18:15

With the bone marrow, you're just centrifuging

18:17

it. So you're concentrating the

18:20

stem cells. And so that's considered,

18:22

you know, because that's been used for so

18:24

many years with cancer therapies, it's

18:27

essentially an off label use. Okay.

18:29

The issue with the fat specifically was

18:32

the enzymatic digestion because the the

18:34

FDA was claiming that that was more than minimal

18:36

manipulation, thereby drug

18:38

manufacturing. Okay. Gotcha. Because you weren't having

18:40

to deal with the marrow or anything like that. Yeah. But

18:42

but the marrow and and and and, correct me

18:44

if I'm if I'm incorrect on these

18:46

terms, the marrow would be considered autologous.

18:50

Yes.

18:50

So it

18:50

does my own. But explain to people the difference

18:52

between autologous and whatever you call it,

18:55

the non autologous. Allergenic. Allergenic.

18:57

Yeah. Explain that to people. Sure. So there's two

18:59

main categories when we're talking about stem

19:02

cell therapy, there's autologous and allogeneic.

19:04

The word autologous means donor

19:07

and recipient are the same person.

19:09

So that means taking stem cells from your

19:11

own body. Allogenic means

19:14

donor and recipient are different people.

19:17

So, usually, that's birth tissue products.

19:20

Does not involve dead

19:21

babies. Does

19:22

not involve umbilicus things. Right. It

19:24

involves the the the extra

19:26

stuff that normally just gets thrown in the trash.

19:28

And you made a good point. They're not dead babies.

19:30

No. I don't think I have some, you know,

19:32

Christian friends, but I'm I'm a pro life

19:35

got myself and they freaked

19:36

out. They've been like, hey, killing babies for something. I don't

19:38

think that's how it works. No. It's complete. You

19:40

know, there there's no truth to that. So

19:42

Well, let's back up. Let's talk about the autologous

19:45

first. So when we're talking about stem cells

19:47

from your own body, there's basically three

19:49

categories. There's your bone marrow.

19:52

Okay. Bone marrow has been used in cancer

19:54

therapies. Bone marrow stem cells have been used in

19:56

cancer therapies for, you know, since the nineteen

19:58

seventies. So that is

20:01

any anytime we use it for treating like

20:03

low back pain or something like that. It's considered an

20:05

off label use. I started

20:07

out when I started doing stem cells in

20:09

two thousand ten, it was bone marrow. And

20:12

I was very happy with it. It was very effective.

20:15

Sometimes, you know, usually took a few treatments, like,

20:17

we wouldn't just do one and get great outcomes.

20:19

We'd have to do a sort of a series of them to get

20:21

people where they wanted to be. And

20:24

the older people got it seemed to be a

20:26

little less effective. But

20:28

overall, you know, I did it for just

20:30

that for three years and was very happy

20:32

with it. Then I'm at Kristen. I

20:34

learned how to isolate stem cells from fat.

20:37

Okay. And in the beginning,

20:40

what I thought was, you know, my

20:42

initial instinct was to combine the two

20:44

because if combined the fat with the bone.

20:46

Right. Combined bone marrow with the SVF,

20:49

the stromal vascular fracture, the stem cells

20:51

from the fat. And I thought, well,

20:53

you know, rather than just jumping into that,

20:55

why don't I C, use them, you

20:57

know, do it for a period of time individually.

21:00

And maybe one does work as

21:02

well as or better than the other,

21:04

and and and there's no need to do the other.

21:06

So for the first four months, what

21:08

I did is I would people come to

21:10

me and I'd say, well, okay, so we can do bone

21:12

marrow, which I've been doing at that point for

21:14

three years and have quite a bit of experience with.

21:17

And there's scientific data to support

21:19

it. Or we can do

21:21

fat, which I had at that time

21:24

had very little experience with. There was

21:26

very little in the scientific literature on at that

21:28

point. This is back, like, two thousand thirteen,

21:30

two thousand fourteen. Which would

21:32

you rather do? And people would

21:34

self select? They would either do bone marrow

21:36

or fat. I did that for four months. Then

21:38

my dad came in for treatment. And

21:41

I thought,

21:42

I'm gonna do both because I don't don't

21:44

know at this point which works better. So I did

21:46

both. And after that my

21:47

dad, what could go wrong? Yeah. Well,

21:50

you know, I think we should change the hippocratic

21:52

oath to do one to do one to others,

21:54

so she would do one to dear old dad. This does his

21:56

parents. Yeah. So that was it. So I thought

21:59

if I wanna do that for my dad, I should, you know, start doing

22:01

with

22:01

everybody.

22:01

So -- Yeah. -- for that first group,

22:03

whereas bone marrow or fat only, I waited

22:06

a year. And then I checked back in

22:08

with them. Mhmm. And the

22:10

outcomes with the bone marrow group were

22:14

Those people got consistently good results. It

22:16

usually took two treatments to get them where they wanted

22:18

to be, but I only had like a ten percent non

22:20

responder rate. Everybody else did quite well.

22:22

In the fat group, when it

22:25

worked, it was more effective than

22:27

the bone marrow. One treatment would usually

22:29

get people where they wanted to be. But

22:31

there was a much higher non responder rate. It was

22:34

like a thirty percent non responder rate.

22:36

Okay. And so

22:38

when I started combining them

22:40

and I checked with those people twelve months

22:42

out. Mhmm. What I found was that

22:44

I got the consistency of the bone marrow

22:47

with the augmented outcomes of the fat.

22:49

Okay. But there was

22:51

the bone and there was a fat,

22:53

but the last time, I came into your clinic

22:55

and did the full body thing. You talked to me

22:57

about this other kind of stem

23:00

cell. It was like a like

23:02

AVVS That's right. Yeah.

23:04

VSEL. So that's So where's after? Right.

23:06

So we've so we're thank you. We're getting back to our

23:08

list here. We got bone marrow, we got fat, and then

23:10

we have the VSEL. Okay. So

23:12

VXCL stands for very

23:15

small embryonic like stem

23:17

cells. These are stem cells that

23:19

exist in our blood. In

23:21

large numbers. Not in bone or fat and

23:23

blood. It it well, it exists in your bone marrow

23:25

too because your blood is produced in your

23:27

bone. Yeah. Good point. But it's also in your peripheral

23:29

blood. Okay. So

23:32

what these cells are? They're called very

23:34

small because they're

23:36

slightly smaller than a red blood cell.

23:38

They're called embryonic like because they're

23:40

almost as primitive as embryonic stem

23:43

cells. These stem cells exist in our

23:45

blood, but they're completely hibernating.

23:47

They're queascent, we say.

23:50

They're just inactive. And

23:52

in order to activate them, you usually

23:54

have to do these sort of stream measures that

23:57

sound like biohacking techniques. You have to either

23:59

have to freeze and thaw the broke blood.

24:01

Yeah. You have to stress it out. You have to stress

24:03

out the blood. And I had heard

24:05

about it for a number of years, but

24:07

I'd only heard of this, like, you'd have freeze

24:09

in thoughts several times. It would take, like, ten

24:11

hours, and I just couldn't figure out how to work that into

24:13

my day. And that's when I found out

24:15

about Tadovocaitis,

24:17

who's the doctor in Southern California

24:19

-- Yeah. -- who's

24:20

developed a laser to activate

24:22

these VSCs. Which

24:23

is super interesting because that's all I had heard in

24:25

the past. I had one friend that doctor Holland

24:27

Chen -- Mhmm. -- who's doing some of the V cell procedures

24:30

and he he showed me in New York who was, like,

24:32

freezing and he'd take him out look like, you know,

24:34

throwing Han Solo in Star Wars, you know, they'd

24:36

take him out in the dry ice and all the

24:38

all the steam coming off them or whatever. But then

24:41

it doesn't it's like cornices. Right? We

24:43

can stress ourselves with cold. We can stress ourselves

24:45

with

24:45

pressure. We can stress ourselves with heat. Because ourselves

24:48

a light and this doctor Todd guy, he's

24:50

actually stressing the v cells

24:52

with lasers to activate them. Right.

24:55

Right. So it's super cool. So instead of this

24:57

multiple freeze thaw, which is very

24:59

time consuming and labor intensive, he's

25:01

developed a laser, and it's not even the laser

25:03

so much as this, he calls it a whole tropic

25:05

filter through which the laser passes, that

25:08

he has peer reviewed published data

25:11

showing that when you

25:13

zap platelet rich plasma because if

25:15

you do a, like, a PRP, a platelet rich

25:17

plasma, you're concentrating these VXCLs, but

25:21

they're hibernating. If you zap

25:23

a PRP and do the before

25:25

and after measurement,

25:26

the VXCLs increase like

25:28

a hundred x. And so if somebody's in your clinic

25:31

and they do the full body makeover and

25:33

there there's some other protocols you do that

25:35

I want to talk about later on, they you

25:37

can literally right before you do the

25:39

protocol, can you do the laser thing on

25:41

the v cells taken from somebody's blood or just do

25:43

a clinic? Yeah. So we do it immediately. So just do

25:45

a blood draw. We spin down platelet rich plasma.

25:47

We just zap it with the with the

25:49

laser. It takes three minutes. Yeah. And

25:51

that's our VSCL. Wow. Okay.

25:54

So so that's the the bone and

25:56

and the fat and the v cells. I think it's gonna very

25:59

helpful for people to wrap their head around this before we talk a

26:01

little more about the different protocols you could have

26:03

done. But then those are all

26:05

you said a tall again.

26:06

It's all from your own Allergenic.

26:08

Allergenic. Allergenic.

26:09

Allergenic ones. I said that about those. So that's

26:11

usually birth tissue product.

26:13

So just embryonic, put it out of your

26:15

mind -- k. -- fetal, put it

26:17

out of your mind. Nobody does that. There I mean,

26:19

there are some places in the world to do it. Most

26:21

of them are it oddly enough in Russia

26:23

and Ukraine, neither of which

26:25

are particularly hotspots for medical

26:28

tourism. The reason nobody uses

26:30

embryonic is because that's the type

26:32

of stem cell when you hear about them turning

26:34

into tumors. That actually those

26:36

those embryonic stem cells because they're

26:38

so primitive, they tend to turn

26:40

into

26:41

tumors. So, you know, on the one hand,

26:43

you've got this issue of it, you know, potentially

26:45

being unethical. It's very easy to argue

26:47

that an embryo was human life. But

26:49

on the other hand, like, it's not even a

26:51

good cell to use because that's what

26:53

turns into

26:54

tumors. So it's kind of rare because

26:55

I know of some doctors for, like, you know, prescribe,

26:58

like, intranasal allogeneic

27:00

stem cells -- Well, the TBI and stuff like

27:02

that. -- that's umbilical cord. Yeah. That's umbilical

27:05

cord. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So embryonic is

27:07

that's where, you know, it's a ball of eight

27:09

cells. That's what becomes the baby. Nobody does

27:11

that. Okay. Fetal. Nobody does

27:13

that. So let's talk about You're not talking about,

27:15

like, umbilical or placental as being the cancer

27:18

causing one. No. Okay. Gotcha. No. No. No.

27:20

Still still in there for a

27:21

sec. Yeah. So that's the embryonic and the

27:23

and the fetal. Okay. So now let's talk about

27:25

what people actually do use, which are

27:27

the birth tissue. So that's umbilical

27:30

cord placenta and amniotic

27:32

membrane. And those are very rich

27:34

in stem cells. And those are things that, you know,

27:36

a woman gives birth and, you know, for instance, in

27:38

the hospital if that's where she does it. Then these

27:41

birth tissues, she gets

27:43

to decide what to do with them. She gets to

27:45

keep

27:46

them. She gets to throw

27:48

them in the trash -- Mhmm. -- or she gets

27:50

to donate them. She's a hippie. She'll eat

27:51

them. That's right. Yep. Try it out. Yeah.

27:54

Yeah. We did we did that. hippie

27:56

or just a super forward thinking alternative health

27:58

enthusiast. Yeah. That's right. Exactly. Okay.

28:01

So so then if they wind up

28:03

in the medical community, to be used

28:05

as an allogeneic source of stem cells?

28:07

In what type of situations do you think that those

28:09

would be efficacious?

28:11

Well, that's that's a big question. I mean,

28:13

that sort of brings us to the whole idea of

28:15

old versus new. And this kind of gets

28:17

back to the the whole conversation about what

28:19

happened you know, in twenty seventeen

28:22

and Kristen, the FDA essentially

28:24

put a muzzle on the entire industry in

28:27

this country from about two thousand seventeen

28:29

until just recently twenty twenty

28:31

two. And people stopped

28:33

talking about it. During

28:35

that time, all these international

28:37

clinics were going crazy with their marketing.

28:40

And a big part of their marketing

28:42

was use umbilical

28:44

cord stem cells because they're new

28:46

and more robust. Well, where did

28:48

that idea come from? So

28:50

if you look at the area of

28:53

tissue engineering where you're like growing

28:55

a kidney in a laboratory, for instance,

28:58

In that situation, yeah, you

29:00

do wanna use umbilical cord stem cells.

29:02

They are more robust than bone marrow

29:04

stem cells. For growing

29:07

in Oregon. Now my

29:10

own experience because

29:12

during those early years, I used to commute

29:14

to South America for my patients who wanted

29:17

culture expanded umbilical cord cells,

29:19

I went to Bogotá, Colombia. Oh.

29:21

But I was treating the same stuff I treat here. String

29:23

low back pain, neck pain, joint pain.

29:26

And, you know, I did it for

29:28

about three years and I didn't

29:30

really see that much of a difference. Between what I was

29:32

doing at home and what I was doing abroad. So

29:35

when you're talking about, like, musculoskeletal pain,

29:37

low back pain, neck pain, joint pain, that

29:39

sort of thing, don't know that there's really that

29:41

much of a difference. I mean, you

29:43

say, like, what's more powerful? A supercomputer

29:46

or a hammer? Well, it, you know, depends

29:49

on what your job is,

29:51

if you wanna design a bridge

29:53

than the

29:53

supercomputer, but if you wanna drive a nail,

29:56

I wanna hammer myself.

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Do

34:44

think any of these international doctors

34:46

are aware of this idea that you could like take

34:48

the stuff from the blood? Like like you're

34:50

doing that and laser activate

34:51

it? Like that to me, that's it seems like it

34:54

could be better than umbilical or or placental,

34:56

but I don't know. You know, they've just

34:58

like anything, any industry

35:00

in the world, there's people take a

35:03

route, and then they have sunk cost, and that's

35:05

what they're doing, and so that's what they

35:07

promote. Okay. So I don't

35:09

know if they're interested in that.

35:10

Okay. So so in terms of

35:12

just, like, the overall perspective on

35:16

anything else related to freedom

35:18

over our bodies, our health freedom

35:20

in general. Does this ruling, like, spill

35:22

tendrils into any other areas of health in your opinion,

35:24

especially in our country? Yeah. I would say

35:26

absolutely. Because now guys like me

35:28

can act start talking about what we're doing

35:30

again. I think it

35:32

And you like, the conversation that you and

35:34

I are are having right now would have been a very

35:36

difficult one to have, like, say, eight months ago. I wouldn't

35:38

have agreed to it. Yeah. Well, I mean, just saying

35:40

that I use stem cells from fat

35:42

tissue. I wouldn't have said that eight. Yeah.

35:44

I wouldn't have said that three times before the

35:46

ruling. Okay. Yeah. I mean, we had

35:48

to we had to be sort of very hush-hush about

35:50

it.

35:50

And

35:51

now I feel like instead of

35:53

an FDA issue, now we're look turning

35:55

into an FTC issue. Because

35:57

what we're seeing now is

36:01

state attorney generals are suing

36:03

doctors in conjunction with the

36:05

FTC

36:06

for sort of truth in advertising type

36:09

stuff. So, basically, it means So when it's an

36:11

FTC issue, it's more how your marketing,

36:13

how your average ties in what you're saying. Right. It's like

36:15

me and the supplements industry. I

36:17

can't say cures this. I have to visit whatever

36:19

lives. It supports healthy blood sugar

36:21

levels instead

36:22

of, like, cures diabetes or something like that. And

36:24

I think that's perfectly appropriate. Yeah. I you

36:26

know, there were people who were abusing that. The

36:28

people who are the targets of these lawsuits that

36:30

happening right now, these state attorney generals

36:32

with the FTC -- Mhmm. -- that are going

36:35

after mostly chiropractors who had

36:37

these very aggressive marketing campaigns

36:39

saying, you know, they were holding dinners

36:42

and inviting people, giving them a free dinner,

36:44

and telling them all the wonderful things that could happen

36:46

to

36:46

them. And and With

36:47

stem cells. Well, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh.

36:50

And so those guys for chiropractic

36:52

dogs were doing stem cells. Well, the coolest. Most of

36:54

them were hiring nurse practitioners to come

36:56

come in the office and do and do the actual instructions.

37:00

I sort of feel like those you know, I'm the last person

37:02

in the world is to you you know what I mean? Like,

37:04

I don't trash talk other dogs,

37:06

but but it really sort

37:08

of put a dark shadow over the entire

37:10

industry. So, you know,

37:12

these guys unfortunately, I hate

37:14

to say it, but I think they're they're getting what they

37:16

deserve. Yeah. Well, I

37:18

have a question about the the full body stem

37:21

cell makeover that you do and whether

37:23

this this change is the type of things that you do

37:25

with that. But before I ask

37:27

you about that, I have had

37:29

this question in the back of my

37:31

mind regarding stem cells, because they're

37:33

considered to be like regenerative medicine,

37:36

regrow tissue, you know, deal

37:38

with with you know, everything from, like,

37:41

cartilage to support, you know, a lot of people do it

37:43

for anti aging and longevity and skin

37:45

health and sexual health. But what I have yet

37:47

to wrap my head around is the pain component.

37:49

Because you have told me so many times people come in,

37:52

they've got, like, debilitating pain, like

37:54

low back. I know you do a lot with back pain.

37:56

Neck pain, joint pain, etcetera.

37:59

I don't understand how stem cells would actually

38:01

shut down

38:02

pain. Like, I get how they get help with regrowth

38:04

tissue or, you know, anti aging useful

38:06

and etcetera, what where's the pain part come in?

38:08

Right. So this is where people in my

38:11

area in regenerative medicine for the treatment

38:13

of pain where we believe

38:16

the pain generation is coming from.

38:18

The actual cause of the pain is

38:20

not what you see on the MRI. Because

38:23

the trap that we fall into is we're so

38:25

conditioned to like, oh, what does the MRI

38:27

say? Well, the scientific data

38:29

shows us that if you look at a

38:32

hundred people with no low back pain.

38:34

People who've never had low back pain. Mhmm. And

38:36

you look at their MRIs over the age of forty

38:38

five. Sixty percent of them are going

38:40

to have abnormal MRIs. Fifteen

38:42

percent are going to have abnormalities so

38:45

significant that if they had corresponding

38:47

symptoms, they would be candidates for

38:49

immediate emergency surgery. Ultimately,

38:52

if you look at people who have lots of back

38:54

pain, frequently their MRIs are

38:56

perfectly normal, and this has all been very

38:58

well documented. I mean, this is to the point

39:00

where the American College of Surgeons

39:03

in two thousand eleven issued a

39:05

position paper discouraging doctors

39:07

from ordering MRIs for low back pain

39:09

at all because all it really serves

39:11

to achieve is increase

39:13

the cost and the risk --

39:15

Right. -- treatment. It doesn't do anything to

39:17

improve

39:17

the outcome. Unnecessary expense diagnostics.

39:20

Right. That results in a lot of false positives.

39:22

So in regenerative medicine, what we

39:24

think the actual cause of the

39:26

pain is changes in

39:28

the microscopic connective tissue.

39:31

So if you have what, you know,

39:33

if you have suboptimal healing, either you've had

39:35

a single traumatic injury that doesn't completely

39:37

heal, or you have multiple micro

39:40

traumas or repetitive type injuries

39:42

that just don't completely heal.

39:45

Two main things happen. One, the

39:47

collagen matrix, which composes sort

39:49

of that that's what makes the miracle fabric

39:51

that is your connective tissue. You know, it's

39:53

supposed to stretch, just the right amount

39:55

in each direction, and the nerve fibers

39:58

pass freely through it. That's one.

40:00

The other is you generally have

40:02

just the right amount of

40:05

microcirculation capillaries

40:07

to the area, bringing nutrients to the area and

40:10

metabolic waste away. When you have

40:12

suboptimal healing, both of those things

40:14

change. Your miracle fabric

40:16

loses its miracle properties. The collagen

40:18

fibers become chaotic. They pull

40:21

too they open too much in one direction and

40:23

not enough in other directions. The

40:25

nerve fibers that pass through them get caught

40:27

up and fire pain signals. At

40:29

the same time, you grow you

40:32

you you undergo this phenomenon called neovascularization,

40:35

which is the growth of new,

40:37

irregularly formed blood

40:40

vessels. Okay. And every time you grow a

40:42

new blood vessel, you also grow a nerve fiber

40:44

along next to it, So now you have

40:46

a hyper concentration of nerve fibers

40:49

and you have these irregularly formed

40:51

blood vessels. So you actually lose

40:53

the ability to bring nutrients to the

40:55

area and metabolic waste away. Right.

40:57

So essentially when you have a painful

40:59

area from a, you know, from one of

41:01

these suboptimal healing areas,

41:04

whether it's in your low back or your neck or whatever,

41:06

you can consider it really like a non

41:08

healing wound. Yeah. And

41:11

the area in research that

41:13

enjoys the best support

41:16

for stem cells is non healing wounds.

41:19

And non healing wounds are great to

41:21

study because you, you know, you look at somebody, they

41:23

have an

41:23

ulcer, and you

41:26

performing intervention and either it gets better

41:28

or it does.

41:28

Was that, like, a bed sore,

41:30

like, type of stuff? Yeah. Okay. Really

41:32

easy to study because it's a hundred

41:34

percent objective. You can

41:35

see it. Like, you say, hey, I've got this

41:37

sword here. It won't get better. And then you inject

41:40

stem cells and either it gets better or

41:41

doesn't. Well, consistently, it helps. Yeah.

41:43

And the

41:44

reason it helps They're at a bed sort, but they sound horrible.

41:46

Just the name itself. It's very disturbing.

41:49

Yeah. And a lot of people who are, you know,

41:51

living in wheelchairs getting It's it's

41:53

it's terrible. So when you have one of

41:55

these non healing wounds, you inject the

41:57

stem cells, you lay down new

41:59

collagen, you lay down new

42:01

regularly formed blood

42:03

vessels, and then you grow

42:05

skin nerves. It's the same concept

42:08

if you've got low back pain or neck

42:10

pain or hip or joint pain,

42:12

whatever it is, those joint

42:14

surfaces are like chronically irritated. We

42:16

inject the stem cells tricks your

42:19

body into thinking that you've undergone a new

42:21

injury, launching the body's

42:23

natural healing cascade without actually

42:25

having caused any tissue damage, you get

42:27

all the benefit of a healing response without

42:30

actually having been injured.

42:32

So would this be one of the reasons

42:34

why people would do things like foam rolling

42:36

and deep tissue work for the collagina's

42:39

component. Right? To get rid of a lot of the cross

42:41

linking of the fibers. I interviewed guy named Joel Green.

42:44

He calls it maintaining young muscle -- Mhmm. -- because

42:46

theoretically, if the collagen

42:48

cross linking and facial adhesions are

42:52

too aggressive, then what you'd get

42:54

underneath that is neovascularization,

42:57

lay down of nerves that follow those same

42:59

abnormal pathways and potentially increased

43:02

pain with age just from not keeping up with your

43:04

deep tissue mobility

43:05

type. Mhmm.

43:06

Could that is that fair to say? Yeah. Absolutely.

43:08

A little bit of that. Yeah. Absolutely. So for instance,

43:10

the worst looking x rays and MRIs

43:12

that I've seen are dentists.

43:16

Think about dentists. You know, most of them are

43:18

very active people. In the weekends, they're like

43:20

in a hockey league. And so they're bashing

43:22

themselves up, their weekend warriors, they're

43:24

bashing themselves up on the weekend. So funny sex.

43:26

I like no two dentists to play hockey. Yeah.

43:29

I mean, they you know, they're they're into extreme

43:31

sports. And then Monday through Friday, they

43:33

sit in one position in this sort of awkward,

43:35

weird position for, like, ten hours at a

43:38

time. And so on the weekend,

43:40

they break everything down. And then during

43:42

the remodeling phase, during the week

43:44

when you're supposed to be, you know, when because you're

43:46

constantly remodeling your tissue. And

43:48

that's why, you know, that's why we say sitting is the

43:50

new smoking. Because if you sit in one position

43:53

for long periods of time, it

43:55

grows in weird ways. So

43:58

so my dentists and also to an extent

44:00

truck drivers, I've seen that a lot. They just have the

44:02

worst looking x rays because

44:04

it they they do these this heavy

44:06

lifting or

44:07

something, and then they sit for eight hours. I

44:09

have a family member, a very close family

44:11

member who sits and plays the piano

44:13

a lot. Who's developed over the past three

44:15

years, fibromyalgia. Right? Just

44:17

like this is unexplainable pain, chronic

44:19

debilitating, that won't go away.

44:22

Do you think that in somebody

44:24

like

44:25

that? Like like is there a link between neovascularization

44:27

and fibromyalgia? You know, the long

44:30

periods of sitting. I mean, this is why and

44:32

when I was in Metropolitan School, I stood

44:34

a box of sand, barefoot,

44:37

which you know, people thought it was

44:39

weird, but I it's sitting for long periods.

44:41

It does bed So it is a box of sand,

44:43

barefoot. Yes. Why? Because

44:46

we had to

44:46

endure, like, eight hours a day of lecture.

44:48

So I had this rubber made box that I put

44:51

playground sand in and I just had bare feet

44:53

and I would just dig my feet in

44:54

During the lecture?

44:55

Yeah. For eight because we have to Jeez. You you were,

44:57

like, early adopter, the whole standing workstation

44:59

in in a sandbox. Pretty much. Yeah. But

45:02

yeah. Love to you. Well, I yeah. On the lid,

45:04

I had a picture of a cat with an x through

45:05

it. Oh my gosh. That's funny. Okay.

45:08

So so a lot of the this the pain, especially

45:10

in the in spine and the

45:11

joints, those are results of the non healing wound, that's a

45:13

lot of the protocols you find yourself doing. That's

45:15

right. That's right. That's exactly right. So

45:18

the idea with with, you

45:20

know, with with docetri clinics, we

45:23

about half the treatments we do or site specific

45:25

-- Mhmm. -- was meaning, like, someone has low

45:27

back pain, they have neck and we do their neck, we do their

45:29

low back, we do their neck, you know, we just do the

45:31

areas that bother them. But that was

45:33

how full body stem cell makeover came

45:35

about was It

45:37

started out because was doing these big treatments

45:39

on these busted up old cowboys who had

45:41

arthritis through their entire

45:43

bodies. Mhmm. And then I started getting biohacker

45:45

who are like, well, can't you just do it preventatively? Like,

45:47

I wanna

45:48

do my whole body because I don't have,

45:50

for instance, hip pain yet.

45:52

But who's to say that I won't in ten years?

45:55

And -- Yeah. -- you know, it made sense to me because

45:57

if we're turning back the hands of

45:59

time, and restoring health

46:02

to the joint

46:03

surfaces, it makes

46:05

sense to me to do it preventatively in addition

46:07

to doing a wind That's kind of my like,

46:09

I've had a lot of pro athletes since I

46:12

I did the full body makeover with you --

46:14

Mhmm. -- who have contacted me and been, like, Well,

46:16

I don't have like any serious issues.

46:19

This is something that would help me. And

46:21

I tell them kind of the same reason that I got.

46:23

I'm like, well, if it extends your career,

46:25

your longevity and keeps the

46:27

pain that's gonna take you out of your career from

46:29

happening in the future, it's a good idea.

46:31

I mean, that that's what I did with you. As you know, like,

46:34

I was racing Spartan racing in the first year with that. wasn't

46:36

super messed up, but I did it.

46:38

As almost like this anti aging hack.

46:41

Granted back then, I was probably

46:43

almost too infatuated though I wanna stay

46:45

thirty years old forever or whatever. And then now

46:47

I'm I'm I'm graciously embracing

46:49

aging, but I I did another protocol

46:52

last year. Again, just because this idea

46:54

of, hey, my joint can be around, like, whatever.

46:58

Eighty, ninety thrown around football with my grandkids.

47:00

I think it's a great idea. So

47:02

the idea is either people

47:04

who have pain in a joint or

47:07

joints or people who just

47:09

want joint longevity or

47:11

not to be in chronic pain when they age. Those would be the

47:13

two primary people who would come to you for a full body.

47:15

Yeah. That's what I told me.

47:16

Yeah. And I can't say that it prevents

47:19

arthritis with any scientific certainty,

47:21

but it makes sense to me that it

47:22

might when I did it, you did the bone marrow

47:25

like we said. Mhmm. You did the v cells. Now

47:27

that now that you're free to talk about what

47:29

you're

47:29

doing, you didn't change anything? Like as far as

47:31

the way you do the protocol? Well, I actually am

47:33

gonna start experimenting with the allergenic.

47:36

I'm I finally found a laboratory that I

47:38

feel comfortable

47:38

with. And I just have

47:41

some for the

47:41

allergenic for people who need the reminder, that's

47:43

that's a placenta and umbilical etcetera.

47:46

Right? Right. Okay. And it's so it's, you know, they they have

47:48

some products that are sells. They have other

47:50

products that are growth factors. And I

47:52

just have so many people asking about

47:54

it. You know, I don't even necessarily

47:56

want it for me, but when I last

47:59

did a deep dive into it about three years

48:01

ago, I wasn't satisfied with

48:03

the safety literature, but there's been

48:06

so much published in the last three years.

48:08

That it really appears to be completely

48:11

safe. What is it about that you think might

48:13

be better? Like, if it were better, would it just be

48:15

the the ability to have a higher

48:17

stem cell count or something like that from the eligible.

48:19

Well, I think they probably are in

48:21

a sense more potent. Okay. And

48:23

so Now I only treat musculoskeletal

48:26

pain. But if somebody is, you know,

48:29

for instance, say they God forbid, they come

48:31

down with MS or Parkinson's or

48:33

something like

48:33

that, those those are the people who might

48:35

wanna go abroad to do culture expanded

48:38

umbilical cord stem cells because they need massive

48:40

doses like every month or two

48:42

months for the rest of their lives. Alright. So kind

48:44

of an uncomfortable question because a lot of people,

48:46

you know, asked me like, I mean, you did the stem

48:48

cell injection, your genoa was really afraid you didn't

48:51

get dick cancer. And I told them, well, I actually

48:53

did go and read lot of the pubmed

48:55

research on how this has been used for years,

48:57

for Peyronie's disease, or erectile

48:59

dysfunction, or things of that nature. wasn't just going

49:02

in in cowboying it with zero data. But

49:04

it begs the question, like, with you doing the autologous,

49:06

with the option of the birth tissue growth

49:09

factors, the allergenic

49:10

component, like, are you literally gonna

49:12

be, like, guinea pigging on people and then just seeing what

49:14

happens?

49:14

Are you gonna

49:15

have a little baby mice in there? Or how

49:17

you plan doing things? It'll be guinea pigging

49:19

in the in that I don't I personally

49:21

don't have much experience with it. I did those

49:23

cases in Colombia, but, I mean, that was

49:26

a number of years ago, and it wasn't a huge number

49:28

of cases. Okay. But if you there

49:31

is I believe sufficient data

49:33

at this point to at

49:35

least, you know, show that it is safe.

49:38

So I feel comfortable doing it.

49:39

Yeah. Interesting. You think

49:41

you would do it, my full body stumps, I'll make over.

49:44

Oh, I have herself. I have had it done. Oh, you have?

49:46

Yeah. Just like Harry

49:47

does this on all sorts of people, but I didn't know

49:49

if you train somebody to do what you do on yourself. I

49:52

had an associate for a while. Oh, I trained

49:54

him to the point of doing a full body. He did

49:56

it on me. Okay. So you know what it feels

49:58

like? Then he then demanded that I got. Triple

50:00

his cell. Yeah. So I let him go.

50:02

I do warn people afterwards. Even I did

50:04

a Spartan race, like, five days after I did the first

50:07

one. And the guy was kinda taped up and my joints

50:09

were a little sore, but you sore for like a good week or

50:11

so

50:11

after. Yeah.

50:12

Yeah. It beats you up. I mean, it's a it's a big

50:14

treatment.

50:14

It's not

50:15

it, you know, it it needs to be respected. And

50:17

friends who have had to do it, they they, like, call me up

50:19

the next day. Like, Ben, I think I'm in a mistake. can't

50:21

move my just you'll be fine. Just take couple

50:23

days. Walk. Go easy.

50:25

Don't go swing the kettlebells and you feel pretty within

50:28

about, like, three days, you start to feel mobility

50:30

come back. At least in my experience in, like,

50:32

a week, you feel pretty good.

50:33

Much better. Right? Yeah. I I say, hate hate

50:35

me now, love me later. Yeah. It's rough in the

50:37

beginning. Yeah.

50:38

Exactly. It was for me when I had it done. Yeah. I

50:40

was felt like I was hit by a car for a couple

50:42

of days. But then, you

50:44

know, about six months later, I

50:46

realized I just had no pain in my

50:48

entire body. When it procedure

50:49

itself, you're asleep all Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

50:51

Yeah. So I don't I don't remember what happens for, like,

50:53

an hour after. I remember counting down and then waking

50:55

up in your office and and yeah.

50:57

Then walk across the street to the beautiful hotel.

51:00

Okay. So the stem cell makeover,

51:03

the full body makeover is expensive. People

51:05

know

51:05

that. Like, you know, you're paying with, like, forty

51:07

five thousand or something.

51:09

Depending on which it's forty or sixty,

51:11

but either way, expensive. Yeah. So

51:14

you recently had an article that came out on

51:16

my website about this thing called STEM. STYM.

51:18

I don't know if people read that, but it was essentially

51:21

like how to get a lot

51:23

of what you're getting from the full body protocol.

51:26

But for people who maybe aren't

51:28

like, you know, elite rich -- Mhmm. --

51:30

biohackers or pro athletes or something explain

51:32

what the STEM

51:32

is. Yeah, so dociri clinics, you

51:34

know, that it's been cool, the evolution

51:37

of how I do things, and it's been, you

51:39

know, I I love what I do.

51:42

But it has gotten very expensive. And

51:44

the reason is it costs fortune around my

51:46

place and all of this stuff costs money.

51:48

It's, you know, I'm not gouging. It's just like,

51:51

the product is very expensive. So,

51:54

you know, I realized that it's beyond the reach

51:56

of many and and even just on

51:58

that the article that we did

52:00

on your website, there was a lot of, you know, feedback

52:02

of people saying, how is this gonna

52:04

become affordable, like, to the rest of the world?

52:07

So I've partnered with a friend, a

52:10

a new friend, doctor Josh Red,

52:12

who some of your listeners might know, he's

52:14

got like two hundred thousand Instagram

52:16

followers.

52:16

Yeah. I've never hung out with him, but we met briefly. You

52:18

introduced us

52:19

over the phone.

52:19

I haven't I haven't actually met him, but he seemed like cool

52:21

guy. Yeah. He's got a chain of autoimmune clinics.

52:24

Here in the US. And so he has a lot of experience

52:27

scaling businesses, which I don't.

52:29

I mean, I only have experience doing stem

52:31

cell medicine. So we are

52:34

going together create STEM clinics.

52:36

So STEM clinics, I'm currently

52:38

in the process of training the

52:40

nurse anesthetist that's worked with me for

52:42

almost five years in how to do a

52:44

lot of this stuff, sort of like the twenty

52:46

percent of the injections that I do that work,

52:49

eighty percent of the time. And

52:51

once he gets fully trained,

52:53

and we're gonna open up series

52:56

of clinics around the United States that's going

52:58

to offer the same Sure.

53:00

I call it the kitchen sink approach. We're using

53:02

bone marrow and we're using fat. We're using VSCL.

53:05

Potentially, we're gonna use these birth

53:07

tissue cells. Instead of the

53:09

sort of twenty thousand and up range, it's

53:11

gonna be more, like, two to ten

53:13

thousand. But but joint by joint. I mean Right.

53:15

It's not gonna be Let's say I'm like, I don't want to

53:17

do the full body thing. Maybe it'd be cool, but I don't

53:19

want the money. But, ma'am, my knee and my elbow -- Right. --

53:21

or beat up. Do do everything you

53:23

do in the full

53:24

body, but just do my knee and my elbow. Right. So

53:26

STEM clinics is not going to offer

53:28

full body stem cell makeover, but they'll do,

53:30

you know, if someone wants to have their low back and their hips

53:32

and their knees

53:33

done, then they'll be able

53:35

to have

53:35

that on it. And then right now Park City

53:37

is the main place where people do the full body one.

53:40

It's the only place.

53:41

The only place. Yeah. Okay. But the clinics are

53:43

gonna be around the US. STEM clinics, we're gonna

53:45

start in Salt Lake. The second one will

53:47

probably be in Saint George. Cool. And we'll

53:49

just you

53:49

know, do some market research, decide where to go

53:51

next. I probably know, like, fifty people who wanna

53:54

do something like that who who aren't doing the

53:56

full body just basically because of the price tag. Yeah.

53:58

Yeah. Okay. No. No. You do you also

54:00

have the Tithing thing? Because I I should mention

54:02

it because it's kinda

54:03

cool. I like that you did this. Yeah. So

54:05

Tithing has been going strong now

54:07

for close to five years. So

54:10

one day per month at dociliary clinics, we

54:13

offer treatment at no charge to the medically

54:15

underserved. So first, people have demonstrate

54:17

that they're in fact living below poverty line.

54:20

Once they have, you know, once we determine

54:22

that, there's two pathways for enrollment.

54:24

One is for combat service veterans. If

54:27

you've served this country in combat, I'll

54:29

do the treatment for free. Like, I'm I'm happy

54:31

to do it. If you're not a service

54:34

veteran, I will do it in exchange for

54:36

documentation of community service hours.

54:39

So we've essentially got, you know, docetree clinics,

54:41

which is the Cadillac. It's -- Yeah. -- it's expensive.

54:43

It's it's, you know, if you look if you

54:45

shop around in the United States, we're quite a

54:47

bit more expensive. But if you look at the

54:49

value, you know, we're doing

54:51

all these different bone marrow and fat.

54:54

And VSCL. And everything

54:56

is under IV sedation from a board certified

54:58

anesthesiologist. And so, I mean,

55:00

there's all this, like, added value. So

55:02

that's dose area clinics. Then STEM clinics

55:04

is going to be sort of a simplified version.

55:07

It's going to be treatment of low back,

55:09

treatment of neck, hips, knees, that sort of shoulders,

55:11

that sort of thing. We'll have menu items.

55:13

You know, some people can just do v cell. That'll

55:15

probably be the least expensive. We can

55:17

do v cell and bone marrow. Like

55:20

I said, menu items. And then

55:22

the tithing program is for people who can't afford

55:24

any of it and need to be treated for

55:26

free. Howard Bauchner: Got it. So

55:29

What I'm gonna do is I'm

55:31

gonna put at ben greenfield life

55:33

dot com slash stem, STYM.

55:36

What I'm gonna do is probably show notes for everything

55:38

you heard today, where you can also leave your comments

55:41

and your questions and your feedback. Usually me

55:43

or or doctor Hair will jump in to one of those.

55:45

But then what I'll also do because we

55:48

we probably like scratch the surface of

55:50

everything that happens during the full

55:52

body stem cell makeover, all linked to the

55:54

other pisodes that we did on that. And I I don't

55:56

know. Is this video still hanging around on YouTube? Were

55:58

you doing that protocol on me, or did they have take

56:00

it down? We played that on the on the Joe

56:02

Hogan

56:03

show. That that you it

56:05

was a cool it was a cool clip. Oh,

56:07

do you do you mean this the time lapse video? Yeah.

56:09

The time I'll -- Yeah. -- begin the protocol. Yeah. That's still

56:11

up. Okay. It's still up. Okay. So I'll link to that. People wanna

56:13

see the time lapse video, not say for work or

56:15

at least the dinner table, but it it's me

56:17

getting the whole stem cell protocol done. I'll

56:19

also link to the article

56:21

for those of you who are more visual that Harry

56:24

wrote that kind of details the STEM protocol.

56:26

And so you can leave all your questions and

56:28

your comments and your feedback over there.

56:31

And again, like like, the STEM thing's

56:33

gonna start off and felt like, but I

56:35

I think it's cool. This is gonna be available in the ocean.

56:37

Pop in, wham bam. Thank you, ma'am. Get joint

56:39

done and use all the

56:41

all the stuff that you've talked about. I guess, we'll

56:44

you'll just keep people posted on how it goes

56:46

with the autologous combined with the allogeneic.

56:48

Yeah. But if if that works out, you can start doing that

56:50

in the STEM clinics too. Yeah. I believe so. If there's

56:52

if there's interest because we've just had so many

56:54

people asking about it. Yeah. So Yeah.

56:56

And STEM clinics, by the way, we're already functioning

56:59

just out of my clinic. And once we sort

57:01

of get up and going a little more and get everything

57:03

more

57:03

established, then we'll move him down or something.

57:05

Alright. Got it. Cool. Anything else

57:07

you wanna cover, Harry? I think think we

57:09

got through. I I didn't know about this. This. You told me

57:11

you wanna talk about the ruling, but I didn't realize how recent

57:14

or important that is. So That's super

57:16

cool. And congratulations because

57:18

it sounds like it's actually good for you

57:20

too.

57:20

Yeah. Well, congratulations to Sean Berman

57:23

and Ben Los Angeles,

57:24

who's

57:24

the one who, you know, went toe to toe

57:26

with the FDA and and one. Yeah.

57:29

I'm the guy no Sean, the the hi Sean. And

57:31

then for everybody listening, ben greenfield life dot

57:33

com slash STYM

57:36

Harry. Thanks once again for coming on the show. You're

57:38

always a wealth of information, man. Thanks, Ben.

57:45

More than ever these days, people like you and

57:47

me need a fresh, entertaining, well informed,

57:49

and often outside the box approach

57:52

to discovering the health and happiness and hope

57:54

that we all crave. So I hope I've been able

57:56

to do that for you on this episode

57:58

today. And if you liked it, If you love

58:00

what I'm up to, then please leave me a review

58:03

on your preferred podcast listening channel

58:05

wherever that might be, and then just find the Ben

58:07

Group for life episode. Say something nice.

58:09

Thanks so much. Means a lot.